1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:05,300 Do you want to build a stronger Army and a stronger regimen? 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:10,200 A regiment that can impact civilian communities to achieve 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,000 u.s. Global objectives? 4 00:00:12,700 --> 00:00:17,600 Are you ready to arm our soldiers today to win the first 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:22,000 battle of the next War, as an army, reservist and civil 6 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,300 Affairs specialist, you are armed with diverse and 7 00:00:26,300 --> 00:00:29,900 extraordinary experiences as a soldier. 8 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:35,200 ER and as a civilian, you know, the path to enduring Victory 9 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,500 leads through the Everyday People of this world. 10 00:00:38,900 --> 00:00:43,800 The mothers fathers the daughters, and sons caught in 11 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:48,000 the struggle for their future. You shape that future through 12 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,900 every encounter the National Training. 13 00:00:50,900 --> 00:00:55,200 Center needs your experience to prepare our soldiers, your 14 00:00:55,200 --> 00:01:00,300 brothers and sisters for whatever tomorrow brings are you 15 00:01:00,300 --> 00:01:04,500 ready to shape the future accepting a Doss applicants? 16 00:01:04,500 --> 00:01:10,100 Now, for more information, email NTC, dog, goes team at 17 00:01:10,100 --> 00:01:22,900 gmail.com, With Tesla government's 18 00:01:22,900 --> 00:01:25,600 Knowledge Management Solutions. You're adding a strategic 19 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,300 partner that helps unleash the full power and potential of your 20 00:01:28,300 --> 00:01:31,900 institutional information. Let us unpack your data and put 21 00:01:31,900 --> 00:01:35,700 your knowledge to work, learn more at Tesla gov.com. 22 00:01:38,300 --> 00:01:41,300 Elsie 38, brand.com the Civil Affairs Lifestyle. 23 00:01:41,300 --> 00:01:45,200 Brand a little bit of something for everybody t, shirts, polos 24 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,900 shorts, hats Flags, posters for your walls and stickers for 25 00:01:48,900 --> 00:01:52,300 everything else items for citizen soldiers of use of kapok 26 00:01:52,300 --> 00:01:56,700 and Warrior diplomats at Fort Bragg a like LC 38 brand.com. 27 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:21,600 It's cool to like your job. And the really valuable thing. 28 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,500 I think, is it goes team pulled, all the NPC's information, 29 00:02:24,500 --> 00:02:27,900 related capabilities Eliseo, CTS, and planners into a single 30 00:02:27,900 --> 00:02:30,200 team, with a team leader that has direct line. 31 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,100 And TC senior leaders the same as every other team. 32 00:02:33,100 --> 00:02:37,000 Leader out there, All of the live, the Italian team to this 33 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,400 couple other types of proteins. We have out here and there's 34 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,800 information capabilities, like civil Affairs and psyops, just 35 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,200 didn't have that exposure in place prior to go steam. 36 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,200 So I think it's been a really positive step. 37 00:02:49,100 --> 00:02:50,800 Hi. And welcome to the one seed pod 38 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,400 cast. My name is John Miguel. 39 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,300 Get your host for today's episode and our guest today is 40 00:02:55,300 --> 00:02:58,100 Major John Burns. He's the Civil military 41 00:02:58,100 --> 00:03:01,500 operations, trainer, and operations, officer for ghost 42 00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:03,200 team at the National Training Center. 43 00:03:04,300 --> 00:03:06,600 The previous civil Affairs assignments for major Burns 44 00:03:06,700 --> 00:03:10,300 include serving as the G9 of the 13th expeditionary. 45 00:03:10,300 --> 00:03:11,900 Sustainment command, at Fort Hood. 46 00:03:11,900 --> 00:03:15,900 Texas Commander Echo company at the 83rd civil Affairs 47 00:03:15,900 --> 00:03:18,600 Battalion. See mock chief for the Echo 48 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:24,000 company at 83rd, see a battalion team Chief Fork at 2:53 in Bravo 49 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:28,200 Company, 97, see a battalion and assistant operations officer for 50 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,700 the 92nd civil Affairs. Battalion His see it 51 00:03:31,700 --> 00:03:34,600 appointments include the Sim. See the Civil monetary support 52 00:03:34,700 --> 00:03:39,300 element Cambodia and supporting us Pacific Fleet in Pacific 53 00:03:39,300 --> 00:03:42,400 partnership, 2017. 2018, major Burns. 54 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,200 Welcome the show. Hey, thanks for having me, John. 55 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,700 It's really great to be here. I've been a longtime listener, 56 00:03:48,700 --> 00:03:53,400 the one, see a podcast, and I'm finally really happy to be here 57 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,100 to help contribute to the overall discussion. 58 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,200 Well, thank you for your time and I understand your between 59 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,000 rotations. We're going to talk a lot about 60 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,300 what happens at NTC. But can you briefly tell people 61 00:04:04,300 --> 00:04:05,800 now that you're in between these rotations? 62 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,300 How many rotations you guys have a year and how long they 63 00:04:08,300 --> 00:04:11,500 normally last? Yeah so a rotation at the 64 00:04:11,500 --> 00:04:14,700 National Training Center is 14 training days. 65 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,600 I think that's important to note that those does not mean you're 66 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:23,500 only here for 14 days, there's RSO and I so your reception 67 00:04:23,500 --> 00:04:27,200 staging onward movement, integration phase that happens 68 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,700 and while we as OCT is really count about five of those days. 69 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,100 For most units here, that can be up to two even three weeks if 70 00:04:35,100 --> 00:04:38,500 you come on torture at Vaughan. And then you've got to get ready 71 00:04:38,500 --> 00:04:41,500 to leave too. It's not like when we call 72 00:04:41,500 --> 00:04:45,700 endex, everybody just packs up their tanks and weapons and goes 73 00:04:45,700 --> 00:04:48,000 off into the sunset. So it's a process. 74 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,000 You have to both build combat power in the way in fight. 75 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,500 Right. When and then you've got a, 76 00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:57,000 you've got to get all that combat power back out just like 77 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,600 you would in a real deployment and the overall number of 78 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,000 rotations a year right now Now anywhere from eight to ten 79 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,900 rotations per year and in the coming fiscal years, okay? 80 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:09,800 I'm wondering if you could frame for listeners. 81 00:05:10,700 --> 00:05:13,000 What the National Training Center is all about. 82 00:05:13,100 --> 00:05:16,200 If you could go back to the beginning, when it all started 83 00:05:16,500 --> 00:05:19,800 and what does the army use the NTC for today? 84 00:05:20,900 --> 00:05:24,000 Yeah, it's a great question. So Fort Irwin started as an 85 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,300 anti-aircraft range back in the 1940s in support of training for 86 00:05:28,300 --> 00:05:30,900 World War 2 and this training ground. 87 00:05:30,900 --> 00:05:33,800 Just south of Death Valley, California is adapt with every 88 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,500 major conflict since then, and October 1980. 89 00:05:37,700 --> 00:05:39,500 The department of the army doesn't need for Irwin, is a 90 00:05:39,508 --> 00:05:42,200 National Training Center. In an October 1981. 91 00:05:42,500 --> 00:05:45,500 The first maneuver Battalion arrived to test its metal, no 92 00:05:45,500 --> 00:05:48,200 pun intended. For those, we get the joke for 93 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,200 over 40 years and 400 rotation. Ins are 1200 square. 94 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,400 Mile training area, known as the box has prepared maneuver 95 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,500 elements for the rigors of combat, it puts soldiers in 96 00:05:58,500 --> 00:06:00,200 units through a crucible experience. 97 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,500 I think that's really important. This is the toughest trainer to 98 00:06:02,500 --> 00:06:05,500 get in the army preparing you for combat and that Crucible 99 00:06:05,500 --> 00:06:09,200 experience will expose weakness but the same time provide the 100 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,500 coaching and opportunities to work to overcome that and in 101 00:06:12,500 --> 00:06:16,000 that in that way, in this, you know, might sound a little 102 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,300 patronizing, but it's not just a National Training Center but 103 00:06:18,300 --> 00:06:21,200 it's also a National Treasure. It's something a lot of other 104 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,300 militaries don't have and it really does give us an advantage 105 00:06:24,300 --> 00:06:28,000 to getting you to practice. Combined arms maneuver. 106 00:06:28,300 --> 00:06:30,700 And now I say you know, combined-arms not just in our 107 00:06:30,700 --> 00:06:33,100 traditional arms but combined arms the information space as 108 00:06:33,100 --> 00:06:36,600 well, right here, at before unit has to deploy. 109 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,600 That's a big deal and we're going to get into those details 110 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,700 about combined arms. And and what you guys do when 111 00:06:43,700 --> 00:06:47,600 the ghost team, I'm wondering, if you could talk about the the 112 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,300 acronym OCT. Over Coach trainer. 113 00:06:51,300 --> 00:06:54,600 What that means and how they're divided into teams. 114 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,700 Maybe frame it for people who have never been to an TC of 115 00:06:58,700 --> 00:07:03,800 never come across an OCT. So the ACT is you already 116 00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:06,700 defined, it's an observer coach and trainer and they're really 117 00:07:06,700 --> 00:07:09,500 the keys to successful training here at the National Training 118 00:07:09,500 --> 00:07:12,100 Center. OCT is responsible for 119 00:07:12,100 --> 00:07:15,200 partnering with a rotational unit from the platoon to the 120 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,100 Brigade level, they observe the unit's operation throughout 121 00:07:18,100 --> 00:07:20,900 their time here at the National Training Center, Notes on the 122 00:07:20,900 --> 00:07:23,900 progress of the mission and guide and coaches needed. 123 00:07:23,900 --> 00:07:27,700 And of course, ultimately we also act as safeties because 124 00:07:27,700 --> 00:07:29,600 nobody should die here at the National Training Center. 125 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,200 It is training and we want to make sure you have the safest 126 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,000 training. See if it's training iteration 127 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,200 possible OCT. S I want to leave you kind of is 128 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,500 OCT, s our partners. So sometimes units will come and 129 00:07:41,500 --> 00:07:45,200 they'll look at us with our God Guns and you know, our act 130 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,000 uniform and they almost look at us like we're some sort of 131 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:49,600 adversary that they have to fight. 132 00:07:49,700 --> 00:07:51,000 Yeah. R, not the adversary. 133 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,100 We're here to partner with you, black horse, our professional up 134 00:07:54,100 --> 00:07:57,100 for their the adversary. So, just remember, when you get 135 00:07:57,100 --> 00:08:01,500 here, OCT s are your partner. We're here to train you and we 136 00:08:01,500 --> 00:08:05,300 want to be successful with you. OCT is are assigned based on 137 00:08:05,308 --> 00:08:07,900 their experience and training and are tasked with improving 138 00:08:07,900 --> 00:08:09,900 the rotational unit through coaching. 139 00:08:09,900 --> 00:08:12,700 And there's three thoughtful Arc, you'll get throughout the 140 00:08:12,700 --> 00:08:15,200 rotation. And then at the end overall, 141 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:19,600 it's a really fulfilling job, OCT s watching its progress and 142 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,700 individuals. Row and really some of the most 143 00:08:21,700 --> 00:08:24,800 grueling scenarios. The Army can throw at a unit at 144 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,400 least from a collective training perspective and we do the 145 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,200 side-by-side rotation after rotation, right? 146 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,000 When your unit is out there in the Box, our OC teaser out there 147 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,500 with you, you have constant coverage and so you really do 148 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:41,700 start to get a lot out of watching the arch. 149 00:08:41,700 --> 00:08:44,900 You grow because everybody grows at the National Training Center, 150 00:08:45,300 --> 00:08:47,900 and I like to think of OCT s is really the beating hearts of 151 00:08:47,900 --> 00:08:51,400 those teams that train. And then the National Training 152 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,100 Center itself. I've been there three times. 153 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,800 It works really really well. It's a well-oiled machine and 154 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:02,600 it's great to see the oct, s the various teams including ghost, 155 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:06,000 the coordination that has to happen amongst the oct succumb 156 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,500 over, because its operations are going on at times 24 hours a day 157 00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:14,600 and you guys need a rest too. And it's really fascinating to 158 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,600 see that the coordination, like, hey, I've got to go back to pick 159 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,300 up supplies or whatever. Somebody else going to cover you 160 00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:23,900 and watch your operations to the next six to eight or 12 hours. 161 00:09:24,500 --> 00:09:29,300 And if you have questions as rotational training, unit OCT is 162 00:09:29,300 --> 00:09:32,700 a really, really helpful in going through and guiding you on 163 00:09:32,700 --> 00:09:39,600 on the see a perspective and IO obviously, in sigh up about how 164 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:41,700 you're going to meet your training objectives and guiding 165 00:09:41,700 --> 00:09:44,100 you along the way. Letting you fail at times which 166 00:09:44,100 --> 00:09:45,700 is really, really good. And that's what I want to do in 167 00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:49,000 a safe environment but yeah, I can emphasize everything you 168 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,700 just talked about Major Burns. One of the things that you 169 00:09:51,700 --> 00:09:55,500 mentioned is the god gun. So people who have not been 170 00:09:55,500 --> 00:09:57,200 there. What are you referring to? 171 00:09:58,100 --> 00:10:01,700 Yeah, so the god gun, it's for most of us we carry this pistol, 172 00:10:01,700 --> 00:10:05,300 but it's blue doesn't shit real bullets, it shoots lasers. 173 00:10:05,300 --> 00:10:08,800 And as many of us do know, but if you haven't been to the 174 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,200 National Training Center or another Combat Training Center, 175 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,300 we have this system called miles and it's essentially a giant 176 00:10:15,300 --> 00:10:19,000 laser tag, right? A lot of us played laser tag is 177 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,300 kids or, you know, some of Have kids play laser tag. 178 00:10:21,300 --> 00:10:24,300 Well, this is a really Advanced system of laser tag, but the god 179 00:10:24,300 --> 00:10:29,800 gun is, the oct is ability to help adjudicate kills near 180 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,100 misses or bring people back to life in that laser tag game. 181 00:10:33,700 --> 00:10:37,000 And so it's kind of a mark of OCT s when you've got your gut 182 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,500 gun. It's something that when the rtu 183 00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:42,100 sees it they know what it's all about. 184 00:10:42,100 --> 00:10:43,200 But again, I don't want you to make. 185 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,500 I don't want to make you feel like or the listeners feel like 186 00:10:46,900 --> 00:10:49,700 we're the Bad Guys. Most the time when OCT uses that 187 00:10:49,700 --> 00:10:50,200 God. Gun. 188 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,200 It's actually for resurrect, right? 189 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,500 Because after your if you are to be killed in that giant laser 190 00:10:55,500 --> 00:10:57,600 tag game. Bye bye. 191 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,700 Black horse. We need to reset that system. 192 00:11:00,300 --> 00:11:03,100 And so that God gun doesn't only give us the ability to 193 00:11:03,100 --> 00:11:05,500 adjudicate a kill, but it also gives us the ability to reset 194 00:11:05,500 --> 00:11:07,600 that system bring you back to life so you can continue 195 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,700 training. That's good point. 196 00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:13,000 So let's talk now about the ghost team, Great Name, by the 197 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,200 way. Awesome, awesome. 198 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,400 Name, great logo. How did that come about? 199 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,700 How did this Evolution from these other teams? 200 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,300 Because Come ghost. Yes, who first let's let's start 201 00:11:24,300 --> 00:11:27,500 at the beginning of where we even get her name from so ghost. 202 00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:31,600 Team is named after the 23rd headquarters, Special Troops 203 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:36,500 activated in January, of 1944, as a unit meant to deceive. 204 00:11:36,500 --> 00:11:40,300 The Germans as the Allies move back onto the European 205 00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:42,800 continent. The ghost Army is the unit was 206 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,300 called employed artists. Actors admin Architects and 207 00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:51,000 Engineers people who could think outside the box to achieve the 208 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,000 mission. Often they use tools such as 209 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,000 inflatable tanks and sound trucks. 210 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,300 Theater-quality sets to create illusions of a sizable Army 211 00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:01,700 element in order to distract the Germans from the main effort 212 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,000 over and over again. They got inside the Germans 213 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,000 decision-making cycle by just, never allowing them to 214 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,500 completely understand what u.s. and Allied plans are going to 215 00:12:12,500 --> 00:12:13,900 be. So that's where we got our 216 00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:17,000 heritage from but fast forward to more recent history. 217 00:12:17,500 --> 00:12:19,800 So when my previous boss Lieutenant Colonel, Christopher 218 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,900 Wilson a really talented. Today officer arrived at NTC in 219 00:12:23,900 --> 00:12:27,000 July 20 2010. He sat down with then curdled 220 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,900 now Brigadier General Mike simmering, the commander of 221 00:12:29,900 --> 00:12:32,800 operations group. At the time, they discuss the 222 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,400 option of creating an information operations team and 223 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,400 breaking up the old Paradigm of having, see a psyop cyber 224 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,800 electromagnetic activities, public affairs, as well as space 225 00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:44,900 split among various other Critter teams here at the 226 00:12:44,908 --> 00:12:47,500 National Training Center. And instead moving them into a 227 00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:50,300 single team that would focus on information operations. 228 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,100 It's really an unprecedented move. 229 00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:57,500 Nobody else did this at the time and to this day nobody else has 230 00:12:57,500 --> 00:13:00,300 done it yet. But ntc's leadership understood 231 00:13:00,300 --> 00:13:03,600 that Modern Warfare called for a change and the NTC was going to 232 00:13:03,608 --> 00:13:06,300 lead that change. That is how ghost team was born. 233 00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:09,500 Just a few months later after that conversation, by September 234 00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:12,900 of 2020, ghost logos were painted on the side of Humvees 235 00:13:13,100 --> 00:13:15,200 and Lieutenant Colonel Wilson led a group of those CTS on a 236 00:13:15,208 --> 00:13:17,600 pretty cool. Experiment, it is unique to this 237 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,400 training center here, in the Mojave Desert That's really, 238 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,100 really cool. And shout out to he's gonna love 239 00:13:23,100 --> 00:13:27,700 this, but Sergeant First Class Gianluca who was, I've had the 240 00:13:27,700 --> 00:13:30,700 fortunate experience of training with him, in the 49 to see a 241 00:13:30,708 --> 00:13:33,200 battalion. He got to go out there as an OCT 242 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,300 and again, plug in for people listening to volunteer to do 243 00:13:36,300 --> 00:13:39,100 that. But was fortunate to be a part 244 00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:42,500 of this goat seem Evolution. And saw the value of it makes 245 00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:45,700 total sense within used to kapok where I'm serving. 246 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,600 We have see a psyop an IO in the same command, a lot of that. 247 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,300 And the first Special Forces command. 248 00:13:51,300 --> 00:13:54,400 So, I'm glad this the step was taken. 249 00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:57,300 Can you tell already major Burns? 250 00:13:57,300 --> 00:14:00,900 Whether ghost team has been a positive step forward for NTC? 251 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,500 Yeah, absolutely. But first, let me go back to the 252 00:14:04,500 --> 00:14:06,500 guy. You just talked about certainly 253 00:14:06,500 --> 00:14:09,000 key so I did not know him as an OCT. 254 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,400 I got here slightly after he left, he was one of the early 255 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:18,000 OCT Suncoast team but I do know him as nrt you returning to the 256 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,600 National Training Center after spending. 257 00:14:19,700 --> 00:14:23,600 Ting time, I go Steam and I will tell you it was clear based on 258 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:28,400 his maturity is experience that he had picked up a lot as a oct 259 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,200 here at the National Training Center. 260 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,400 So yeah absolutely awesome. And you know I want to talk more 261 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,400 about possibility of coming the National Training Center is an 262 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,900 OCT later because I think it's a really great opportunity but you 263 00:14:40,900 --> 00:14:44,200 know back to your question, has ghost team in a positive step 264 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,400 for in TC and really the Army and I think unquestionably yes 265 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,300 right. If I could yell This microphone, 266 00:14:50,300 --> 00:14:51,500 which I'm not going to do. I would yell. 267 00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:55,700 Yes. But I guess team, why, why is it 268 00:14:55,700 --> 00:14:58,000 positive step? Well, there's a lot of reasons I 269 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,800 could go on for days about it. We're not going to because you 270 00:14:59,808 --> 00:15:03,400 have a limited time but ghost team at its core tests, the 271 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,300 rotational unit by making them compete. 272 00:15:05,300 --> 00:15:08,600 In a contested information, environment and information 273 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:10,500 operations to include information related 274 00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:14,100 capabilities, like civil Affairs at psyops, has always been a key 275 00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:17,300 element to victory in any conflict, but we're ensuring 276 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,300 ghost team is ensuring that the Anil unit cannot ignore it. 277 00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:27,100 Now both by doing exercise control, providing some higher 278 00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:31,100 headquarters control and also providing those OCT s who will 279 00:15:31,100 --> 00:15:34,400 Coach you know ultimately towards Victory here in the 280 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,800 Mojave goes team, makes it information environment matter. 281 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,700 To commanders and staff said, Echelon prior to the team. 282 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:45,200 Everyone at NTC. And sigh up pa0, civil Affairs, 283 00:15:45,300 --> 00:15:48,700 Seema space and IO did great work, it just wasn't 284 00:15:48,700 --> 00:15:51,800 synchronized as well. Resource by a single entity who 285 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,700 had the role of essentially an information coordinator for the 286 00:15:54,700 --> 00:15:57,800 commander of operations group goes team brought that by 287 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,400 creating ghost team were able to quickly change the way we train 288 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,300 to achieve information, advantage, in alignment, with 289 00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:05,600 the Cog and the NTC, commanding generals vision. 290 00:16:06,100 --> 00:16:08,800 And the really valuable thing. I think is it goes, team pulled. 291 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,400 All the NPC's information related capabilities. 292 00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:14,800 They Co CTS and planners into a single team with a team leader 293 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,300 that has a direct line and TC senior leaders the same as every 294 00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:20,300 other team. Leader out there, All of the 295 00:16:20,300 --> 00:16:23,700 line Battalion teams and there's a couple other types of Critter 296 00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:26,400 teams we have out here. And there's information 297 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,800 capabilities, like civil Affairs and psyops, just didn't have 298 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,800 that exposure influence prior to go steam. 299 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,900 So I think it's been a really positive step. 300 00:16:33,300 --> 00:16:36,300 Good, good. And I think, whenever I say 301 00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:38,300 something you talked about, which is ensuring that the 302 00:16:38,300 --> 00:16:41,700 rotational unit, the Brigade really, and it's battalions that 303 00:16:41,700 --> 00:16:44,200 are being tested. Cannot ignore these information, 304 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,100 related capabilities or pieces of them. 305 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,800 That's something that was certainly a big knock on 306 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,000 rotations, the is where the emphasis is really been on these 307 00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:55,200 Brigade, combat teams coming through coming through and 308 00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:59,500 rightly, so should be, but these so-called enablers, that would 309 00:16:59,500 --> 00:17:01,700 be there. Like, yeah, we that's not really 310 00:17:01,700 --> 00:17:03,000 our thing. We don't care so much about 311 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,599 that, just, you know, provide security on the perimeter of 312 00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:08,700 what we have going on, but having this integrated better 313 00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:10,800 into the scenario is really big deal. 314 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,599 So that's a lot of progress you've made, but would you say 315 00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:16,599 that there are many refinements or continued improvements that 316 00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:18,900 you're still making a ghost and what would you say they are. 317 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,800 Yeah, absolutely. Right. 318 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,300 So we're never going to get it right ever, you know, 100%. 319 00:17:25,300 --> 00:17:27,800 So we're always growing. This is one of the reasons why 320 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,800 I'm actually kind of excited about the team and the role I 321 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,100 get to play on the team. So, as we look and we're still 322 00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:36,600 the newest team in the desert, about two years, we've just hit 323 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,500 our stride, and we continue to improve every rotation when we 324 00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:44,000 find some success in training, you know, training the rtu to 325 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,600 compete in the information environment. 326 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,300 We try not to just stop and kind of rest on our Laurels. 327 00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:53,000 We bring In adjacent teams the Ops group Staff, Black Horse, 328 00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:57,000 which is again our world-class opfor and we ask everyone, how 329 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,500 do we bring even more value to the training next rotation, 330 00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:02,900 people get excited and training does get better. 331 00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:04,500 I mean, we just did this a couple of days ago. 332 00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:07,900 We probably had 30 people only about ten of whom were from go 333 00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:10,600 steam sitting in a room. Saying, how do we make 334 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,000 information operations better here at the National Training 335 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,300 Center? Why do we how do we make it have 336 00:18:15,300 --> 00:18:18,200 more? Meaning not just to the enablers 337 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,900 as you say and I do Is that term in a derogatory way? 338 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,600 Because we are enabling to be easy to do their mission. 339 00:18:23,900 --> 00:18:27,300 But how do we make it matter? For the BCT even more? 340 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,100 You know, one example I can point to is the strides we've 341 00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:32,200 made. Sorry, the strides we've made 342 00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:36,100 with training for operations that consolidation area people 343 00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:40,000 who came to NPC two or three years ago, probably went through 344 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,100 some sort of lanes training, right? 345 00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:45,500 We're civil Affairs, teams or psyops, you know, you do your 346 00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:48,400 you do your lane walking through the village, would probably be 347 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:49,500 an ambush set. It up. 348 00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:51,400 Everybody have to react to contact. 349 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,000 You do a ceilidh, these things were all just kind of, you know, 350 00:18:55,100 --> 00:18:58,700 go do the lane get done, will hot wash it afterwards and then, 351 00:18:58,700 --> 00:19:01,200 you know, everybody just resets or we'll do it again tomorrow. 352 00:19:01,900 --> 00:19:06,000 Yeah, teams don't just go through pre-planned scenarios 353 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,000 like that anymore. That happened the same time or 354 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,000 the same way for every team. Every day. 355 00:19:12,500 --> 00:19:15,300 We have started going towards providing a more realistic and 356 00:19:15,308 --> 00:19:18,300 relevant training program. While the Brigade goes to live 357 00:19:18,300 --> 00:19:21,600 fire, the sea Affairs company forms, a civil Affairs, task 358 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,800 force, and if you dig into the new 3-5 7, you'll see. 359 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,500 That's a doctrinal organization under that. 360 00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:31,100 Task force is the see a company. We add the psyops attachment, 361 00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:36,300 oftentimes, pull in unit, legal teams, unit Ministry teams and 362 00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:39,600 as available electronic warfare. See, get elements in any other 363 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,500 enablers that want to get on this training and we create a 364 00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:47,700 scenario very much related to what they've been experienced 365 00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:50,800 previously in force on Force. Yeah, but it focuses on 366 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,200 establishing civil security and facilitating civil control in 367 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,700 this consolidation area, just to the rear for the brigades, doing 368 00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:01,500 the live fire decisions ranging for a task organization to the 369 00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:05,000 actions of teams individuals. Now, reverberate in a dynamic 370 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,700 information environment which challenges the task force to 371 00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:10,900 rapidly analyze, the Civil component of the environment, 372 00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:13,300 develop courses of action, to address instability. 373 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,900 And ultimately, you know, to ensure the bcts freedom of 374 00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:19,100 maneuver, I want to point out. No team goes through the same. 375 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,200 I'm Lane during this training and then the information they 376 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,500 gather through civil engagement, simple Network, development and 377 00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:30,900 engagement that information goes back to the Sea mock who then 378 00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:35,500 has to analyze it, do civil knowledge integration and then 379 00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:37,800 figure out how to approach that problem over the next couple of 380 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,200 days. Which that's pretty unique. 381 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,600 Not a lot of people do that and I think it's kind of a unique 382 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,800 challenging training experience that we provide here at the 383 00:20:46,808 --> 00:20:50,000 National Training Center. That sounds really cool. 384 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,300 Big improvement over those lanes that were happening before and 385 00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:56,100 really great to hear that. You can't just pass along the 386 00:20:56,100 --> 00:20:57,500 notes. The next team going through the 387 00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:00,000 lane thinking of just give me the same thing for you guys. 388 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,900 Get ready for this Ambush on the left side of whatever that it 389 00:21:02,900 --> 00:21:04,900 builds on itself. And that's exactly the kind of 390 00:21:04,900 --> 00:21:08,200 stuff to go through when you qualify and see as well, what 391 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,400 we'll take a short break and we'll come back and continue. 392 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,400 Our conversation with Major John Burns. 393 00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:15,900 He's the senior civil military operations, trainer and Ops 394 00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:18,100 officer for ghost team at the National Training Center. 395 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,700 Enter, we'll be right back. Everywhere. 396 00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:25,200 You look, there's a barrage of emails and information. 397 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,700 Telling you what everybody has done is doing or plans to do all 398 00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:32,400 in excruciating detail, but access is only half the battle. 399 00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:35,200 You also need information presented in the usable form, 400 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,000 that takes work, and the more information you have, the more 401 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,200 work. It takes Tesla government takes 402 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,500 on these issues. So that your office or agency 403 00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:45,800 can fully exploit, the data you already have our knowledge 404 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,800 management experts organize and curate your internal data are 405 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,400 open source. Research augments your Base with 406 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,700 strategic insights from our globally, experienced team and 407 00:21:55,700 --> 00:21:59,200 our data visualization, turns complex data into compelling 408 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,200 visuals. While our community building 409 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,700 makes sure everyone benefits by leveraging Collective knowledge. 410 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,500 The Tesla government's Knowledge Management Solutions. 411 00:22:07,700 --> 00:22:10,400 You are adding a strategic partner that helps unleash the 412 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,300 full power and potential of your institutional information. 413 00:22:13,700 --> 00:22:17,000 Let us unpack your data and put your knowledge to work, learn 414 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:24,200 more at Tesla gov.com. 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He's with ghost team at the 436 00:23:40,108 --> 00:23:43,800 National Training Center, and the first half of the show, we 437 00:23:43,808 --> 00:23:46,500 talked a lot about background of NTC. 438 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,000 What OCT s Observer? Coaches trainers. 439 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:54,200 Do the history of ghosts. Team going back to 2020 and how 440 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,900 its evolved. Since then, I want to focus now 441 00:23:56,900 --> 00:24:01,500 on the ca teams and companies that go through rotations, some 442 00:24:01,500 --> 00:24:05,300 listeners may have dissipated in rotations myself. 443 00:24:05,300 --> 00:24:08,900 I went through three of them and some were heavy on stability 444 00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:11,200 operations. Now, we've gone through and 445 00:24:11,500 --> 00:24:14,500 we're focusing more on near-peer competition. 446 00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:17,300 We're certainly focused on scenarios that are built toward 447 00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:19,500 Russia and China and North Korea. 448 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,400 What would you say is the flavor of NTC rotations today and how 449 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,400 do you see civil Affairs? Providing value to maneuver 450 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,300 battalions and brigades who were the main focus of NTC rotations. 451 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,200 Yeah, I love this discussion and it's another one where we could 452 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,300 go on for hours and days. So I'll, I'll cut myself short. 453 00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:43,300 If I start babbling, you please cut me short, but I'm pretty 454 00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:47,200 passionate about this stuff so at NTC right now, the bottom 455 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,600 line is we're focused on training brigades to win in 456 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,600 large-scale combat operations right? 457 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,700 You know the mission our Commanding General gives us is 458 00:24:55,700 --> 00:24:59,200 to train the rotational training unit to win, the first battle of 459 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,800 the next war and we think that's Going to be large-scale combat 460 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,900 operations. There is obvious differences 461 00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:11,100 between lascaux the acronym for large-scale combat operations. 462 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,900 And what many of us grew up training for and executing with 463 00:25:13,900 --> 00:25:17,900 counterinsurgency operations which was stability, heavy, even 464 00:25:17,900 --> 00:25:19,700 more. So the Civil Affairs regiment 465 00:25:19,700 --> 00:25:24,000 because many of us were out doing phase zero type of 466 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,500 operations outside of conflict zones all throughout the world. 467 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,400 So there's a bit of a learning curve here that we all have to 468 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:31,800 get used to including myself. Yes. 469 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,800 But it's important to remember that we can't throw away the 470 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,900 lessons that we learned whether it's in coin or in those phase 0 471 00:25:39,900 --> 00:25:44,000 operations, brigades must consolidate gains in their area 472 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,800 of operation. And that requires a certain 473 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,000 amount of Acumen for stability operations. 474 00:25:48,500 --> 00:25:51,300 And when that area of operations includes population centers, 475 00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:54,200 civil Affairs has a responsibility to consolidate 476 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,700 gains around those areas that doesn't start after those 477 00:25:57,700 --> 00:26:00,000 population centers. Are seized either, we need to 478 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,500 get ahead of that challenge and incorporate it as a sequence. 479 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,300 I plan to any operation, we really here, stress civil 480 00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:09,200 Network development, civil Network engagement and simple 481 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,400 knowledge integration from day, one of our. 482 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,300 So and I we encourage civil Affairs forces to go be the eyes 483 00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:18,600 and ears of the Brigade and it's in the Civil component in order 484 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,700 to identify civil, networks and gain information, that can be 485 00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:25,400 used to enhance the Commander's decision making process enable 486 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,600 better command and control over all and inform the brigade's 487 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,000 other War fighting functions, you know? 488 00:26:31,900 --> 00:26:34,500 Here at NTC there to population centers. 489 00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:37,900 Well, within 10 kilometers of Ellis, a Santa Fe, which is the 490 00:26:37,900 --> 00:26:40,400 LSA, the every Brigade executes, RSO. 491 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,800 And I out of the people who live in those towns, have relatives 492 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,600 and Associates throughout the box, right, that training area 493 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:48,800 that you're about to go fight in. 494 00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:53,300 But it's surprising how few units, work to get out to those 495 00:26:53,300 --> 00:26:56,900 places and try to identify useful networks to enable the 496 00:26:56,900 --> 00:27:00,200 brigades operations and then integrate that knowledge into 497 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:01,500 the brigades plans and targeting. 498 00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:05,100 But it can all be done during our so and I or at least as soon 499 00:27:05,100 --> 00:27:07,400 as we get the role players in which is usually about day three 500 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,200 of our. So and I we have to note that 501 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,300 list go also throw some wrinkles into civil Affairs operations, 502 00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:16,400 that coin usually didn't her not to the same degree. 503 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,300 Few of us have operated on the hyper violent and fast paced 504 00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:23,900 Battlefield that we're going to face large-scale combat 505 00:27:23,900 --> 00:27:26,700 operations. And this is where we have to 506 00:27:26,708 --> 00:27:30,000 start really focusing. Commanders will value our 507 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,200 contributions when we are Mitigating risk and civil 508 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,000 friction for them on the battlefield. 509 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,400 We're survival is genuinely hard, we as a regiment cannot be 510 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,100 anchor. Slowing down the fight are 511 00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:43,800 maneuver brothers and sisters will cut us loose because they 512 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,300 can't afford to be slowed down. Instead we need to get used to 513 00:27:47,300 --> 00:27:50,500 being integrated early with the planning process if our see 514 00:27:50,500 --> 00:27:53,500 mocks and our cats are integrated with their supported 515 00:27:53,500 --> 00:27:55,400 organizations from Reseda mission on. 516 00:27:55,700 --> 00:27:58,300 It's going to be difficult to catch up and commanders are not 517 00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:02,100 going to be waiting for us. So then that leads Having to 518 00:28:02,100 --> 00:28:05,400 understand where the Civil environment is going to cause 519 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,700 friction for our commanders plan and work hard to mitigate it, 520 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,400 that might be internally displaced. 521 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,000 People, flowing across the four line of troops. 522 00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:18,700 They could disrupt maneuver or it might be executing active. 523 00:28:18,700 --> 00:28:21,700 Populous control measures in urban areas, the separate 524 00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:25,100 civilians for military forces so that we can regenerate combat 525 00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:27,600 power. After a hard one fight, you 526 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,900 can't be reactive at those situations, especially not in 527 00:28:30,908 --> 00:28:33,400 large-scale combat. And operations, the plan must be 528 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,200 made resource and have defined triggers before the maneuver 529 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,100 Force. Ever crosses, a lot of departure 530 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,200 then it needs to be monitored and adjusted as a conditions on 531 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,600 the ground change. I think when we can get to do 532 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,300 that as a force regardless of what part of the Civil Affairs 533 00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:50,000 regiment were talking about, then we're going to be valued 534 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,500 members of any team, whether it's a brigade combat team in 535 00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:56,400 division or some higher Echelon. Yeah, major Burns. 536 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,600 I thats great points. Large-scale combat operations is 537 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:05,100 going to be dirty. Very, very dirty and I just went 538 00:29:05,100 --> 00:29:08,400 through some CLS course again. And what they're talking about, 539 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,600 just for the medical aspect is prepare to operate independently 540 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,800 and on our own for multiple days of time, maybe upwards of a week 541 00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:20,200 to try to figure out what are all the medical requirements 542 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:21,900 that you would need to self-sustain. 543 00:29:21,900 --> 00:29:24,800 Keep people alive without getting them to roll 2. 544 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,300 And so on the same thing would probably happen to civil Affairs 545 00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:32,100 and different IRC soldiers and Troops. 546 00:29:32,300 --> 00:29:37,200 So yeah that's a big deal. Great point about using that 547 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,700 time during our so nigh to get out to those towns and talk to 548 00:29:40,700 --> 00:29:44,000 civilians that requires a lot. A lot of preparation and 549 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,000 sharing, you can actually shoot move and communicate during that 550 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,200 time separate from the Italian word Brigade or coordinating 551 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:52,500 with them. But where you're going and why 552 00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:55,000 you're doing it. But yeah, absolutely. 553 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,900 If units rotating through to take advantage of that time then 554 00:29:57,900 --> 00:30:00,600 there will be a lot more successful than normal. 555 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,800 And wondering if you could frame for listeners who are preparing 556 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:10,300 to go to Auntie, see what success may look like because 557 00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:14,300 you're not going to go to this massive training environment and 558 00:30:14,300 --> 00:30:16,400 think that you're going to solve all the problems for these 559 00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:18,700 civilians who were role players living in these towns. 560 00:30:19,100 --> 00:30:23,000 That's not the point of it. It's to exercise your systems 561 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,000 and processes and make mistakes and learn from them as quickly 562 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,700 as you can. I guess my question is, what do 563 00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:32,400 you think? See a soldier who's going to 564 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,600 come in for the first time and think man, I need to solve that 565 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,500 water problem for this local person or I need to get them 566 00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:40,200 food. I need to get them humanitarian 567 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,300 Aid and get them out of the area, it's not for them, right? 568 00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:45,700 It's for the maneuver Battalion and maneuver Brigade for 569 00:30:45,700 --> 00:30:47,200 whatever their desired end state is. 570 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,100 But what does success look like for you and your guidance to 571 00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:55,400 these are to use Yeah. Great absolutely great question. 572 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,500 Because the nice thing about ghost team is not only a Rios 573 00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:02,500 ETS, but we design the part of the scenario in which the RT 574 00:31:02,500 --> 00:31:04,500 will fight in the information environment. 575 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,100 And so I know what we're looking for because, you know, our team 576 00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:10,000 is the one who kind of sets those measures. 577 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,100 And first and foremost, let me say you're right, we're War 578 00:31:14,100 --> 00:31:16,800 Fighters and the Civil Affairs, regiment, we're not 579 00:31:16,900 --> 00:31:18,700 humanitarians, right? That's not our job. 580 00:31:18,700 --> 00:31:22,000 We're not usaid or not non-government organizations, 581 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:23,600 we're here. Here to fight and win our 582 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,600 nation's Wars. And we do that by shaping, it 583 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,200 influencing the Civil component, the operating environment. 584 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:35,200 So yeah, do I want that civilian to have the resources, they need 585 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,000 to survive. I do. 586 00:31:38,100 --> 00:31:41,900 But ultimately, the reason I want that is because if they're 587 00:31:41,900 --> 00:31:43,900 being taken care of right, whether we're doing it through 588 00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:47,300 some sort of transitional, governance, we're leveraging 589 00:31:47,300 --> 00:31:49,700 non-government organizations or other government agencies, to 590 00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:54,000 bring in relief that helps bring stability, E to the immediate 591 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,900 rear of the Brigade. And then, it allows the keep the 592 00:31:56,900 --> 00:31:59,100 Brigade moving. It keeps her lines of 593 00:31:59,100 --> 00:32:01,500 communication open and keep supplies flowing. 594 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,300 It keeps the guns pointed towards the flot, and not back 595 00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:07,000 into an area, they've already cleared. 596 00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:09,900 And that's that's what we're trying to get and you're right. 597 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,300 Nobody comes here and is successful right off. 598 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,700 I would tell you, if you put me back in my company, Commander, 599 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,300 bill it and I deployed my company here to the National 600 00:32:19,300 --> 00:32:21,000 Training Center, knowing everything. 601 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,100 I know after having been here. Here, you little over a year and 602 00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:27,500 having helped lead this team. I would still struggle. 603 00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:29,800 My company would still struggle to be successful except 604 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,400 especially very early on because ntc's, just hard. 605 00:32:33,700 --> 00:32:37,900 But at the end of the day, whether you're a brand new civil 606 00:32:37,900 --> 00:32:41,200 Affairs specialist through the company Commander, you really 607 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,700 have to start judging success by how well you're enabling that 608 00:32:44,700 --> 00:32:48,500 Brigade combat team to keep pushing forward and not have to 609 00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:52,000 deal with civil friction in the rear area. 610 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,600 Yeah, that's a good point that you don't want the maneuver 611 00:32:57,100 --> 00:33:00,400 Brigade commander and staff or orthos battalions feel like man 612 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,300 to see a guy's just clean up this rear then we can move 613 00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:05,900 forward but we're being held back and occasionally. 614 00:33:05,900 --> 00:33:10,300 That happens to force at times to force those maneuver 615 00:33:10,300 --> 00:33:12,700 commanders to take note of what's happening in their 616 00:33:12,700 --> 00:33:14,400 consolidation area and to clean it up. 617 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,500 Part of the integration that happens is occasionally with the 618 00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:22,200 active and Reserve component CA units that go through. 619 00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:28,100 So do you see that those Campos work together at NTC and why? 620 00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:31,000 Or why not? Yes. 621 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,900 And and I'm pretty excited about this because just the day before 622 00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:39,900 this recording, Special Operations in conventional civil 623 00:33:39,900 --> 00:33:42,100 Affairs. Forces work, side-by-side. 624 00:33:42,100 --> 00:33:45,400 Executing transitional governance activities in a town 625 00:33:45,700 --> 00:33:47,600 in the Box. Why? 626 00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:52,200 Well, the specifics of that very specific operation don't 627 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,300 necessarily matter. But in general, it's because the 628 00:33:55,300 --> 00:33:57,500 different flavors of civil Affairs. 629 00:33:57,500 --> 00:34:01,000 The different components bring slightly different Sets and 630 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,300 possess different attributes of authorities. 631 00:34:03,700 --> 00:34:07,400 And oftentimes those defining characteristics complement each 632 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,199 other. To create, a more optimized 633 00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:12,600 solution to the Civil challenges were going to face on the modern 634 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,100 Battlefield. We Embrace that here at the 635 00:34:15,100 --> 00:34:16,800 National Training Center, we don't ignore it. 636 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,100 We designed the rotation that when softened conventional for 637 00:34:20,100 --> 00:34:22,100 civil Affairs are both on the ground. 638 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,199 There's ample opportunity, not only to interact, but to enhance 639 00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:29,800 effects and working together, that is to say that the scenario 640 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,500 is Designed to reward or rotational unit. 641 00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:35,100 The practice is soft conventional Force, 642 00:34:35,100 --> 00:34:39,300 interoperability integration and interdependence more than an RT. 643 00:34:39,300 --> 00:34:42,400 You the leaves wall between them when it comes to civil Affairs 644 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,400 operations. That's really great to hear. 645 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:50,600 And last rotation, I went through last August, I think it 646 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,300 was in August 20 21, approximately. 647 00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:56,199 We were having those engagements, but we'd sometimes 648 00:34:56,199 --> 00:35:00,300 come across a guy, the civilian of Battlefield, whose name 649 00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:03,900 magically would change. He's the same guy, but his name 650 00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:06,800 would be different based on whether you're talking to soft 651 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,000 team or the conventional, see a team. 652 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:13,300 Are you saying now that those roles have been Consolidated? 653 00:35:13,300 --> 00:35:16,200 So, It's the same person you're talking to if you're collecting 654 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:21,000 information or pulling out a network of individuals, the the 655 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,400 sea Mock and cki actually works that way. 656 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,200 Yeah, absolutely. So you know the specific thing 657 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,600 you're referencing here. We have a limited number of role 658 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,500 players. So sometimes you might find a 659 00:35:34,508 --> 00:35:38,000 role player with two different names, you know, hit the, I 660 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,700 believe. But when you're here, right? 661 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,100 Everybody's got a budget. However, now, the second part 662 00:35:43,100 --> 00:35:46,300 you are, right? So, for instance, there's 663 00:35:46,300 --> 00:35:51,500 sometimes engagements because Reserve component is normally a 664 00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:53,900 larger component, the Civil Affairs Force here, at the 665 00:35:53,900 --> 00:35:57,100 National Training Center, They have more eyes and ears forward 666 00:35:57,100 --> 00:35:59,700 and especially early in a rotation. 667 00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:03,300 They'll be doing civil engagement, civil Network 668 00:36:03,300 --> 00:36:08,900 development and they'll meet somebody who based on hopefully 669 00:36:08,900 --> 00:36:10,600 the conversations they've already had with the soft 670 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,800 element. They'll say. 671 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,700 Hey you know what? I think that guy belongs to an 672 00:36:14,700 --> 00:36:17,000 organization that maybe these guys are soft. 673 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,900 Brothers and sisters, might have an interested. 674 00:36:20,100 --> 00:36:24,800 And so leveraging, the much larger Mass Reserve component. 675 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,300 Says, it'll be here, they'll be the eyes and ears. 676 00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:30,100 But occasionally, they'll find that that person is kind of, you 677 00:36:30,107 --> 00:36:32,400 know, Golden Nugget. That could be passed over to the 678 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,500 soft side and then I'm not going to give away the secrets here, 679 00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:38,300 but the scenario is designed that being able to leverage that 680 00:36:38,300 --> 00:36:39,500 person and letting the soft side. 681 00:36:39,500 --> 00:36:42,500 It leverage that person could actually make your life easier. 682 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,700 You know, further on in the rotation, not too much easier. 683 00:36:45,700 --> 00:36:47,500 It's still going to be hard. It's the National Training 684 00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:48,300 Center. Yeah. 685 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,000 But it might, it might contribute to consolidating 686 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,800 gains and that's actually what we saw the day. 687 00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:56,700 Before this, this recording happened. 688 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,600 But yeah, again, come and find out and play through it and then 689 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,700 you'll see how it works out. That's great, couple more 690 00:37:03,700 --> 00:37:06,000 questions here. I want to talk about next that 691 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:11,900 the Cadre and the guidance, they provide so that Observer coach 692 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,400 trainer the training part of this and the oftentimes the 693 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,800 foot-stomping of it guys, if you haven't integrated with your 694 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,300 supported unit, you should go over there and meet with them. 695 00:37:22,700 --> 00:37:25,600 You should be part of their operations process and MDM fee 696 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,100 and ensuring your communication systems are up and running in 697 00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:33,100 the talk to each other. Also, the operations process to 698 00:37:33,100 --> 00:37:35,700 task organized teams, two battalions as the fight 699 00:37:35,700 --> 00:37:39,100 progresses throughout the rotation into your point. 700 00:37:39,100 --> 00:37:42,100 About the integration, not only between active and Reserve, CA 701 00:37:42,100 --> 00:37:47,500 but all these other ircs did not hold onto information. 702 00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:50,200 That doesn't help anyone just to think that I've got the data. 703 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,400 I've got this baseball card about somebody, I just met you 704 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,200 need to share that widely. And ensuring those reports and 705 00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,600 data are shared with the S9 of whoever you're supporting in the 706 00:38:00,607 --> 00:38:05,100 non-lethal targeting cell. So, given all that in the 707 00:38:05,107 --> 00:38:08,400 guidance that you provide to Euro CTS, what would you say are 708 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,100 the areas that most CA units should emphasize for success? 709 00:38:13,700 --> 00:38:17,400 Yeah, so the theme of integration that you mentioned 710 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,400 is dead on accurate and I'm going to talk about the very 711 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,200 things you've listed. What I think is really 712 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:28,400 interesting about this topic is that it's not the Civil Affairs 713 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,800 specific stuff that trips up civil Affairs companies. 714 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,800 Right at the end of the day, what we do is civil Affairs 715 00:38:36,500 --> 00:38:40,600 officers and noncommissioned officers and Specialists isn't 716 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,300 the hardest. Most technical thing on the 717 00:38:43,500 --> 00:38:44,900 Right. Oftentimes, we're talking to 718 00:38:44,900 --> 00:38:47,400 people, we're writing about it, we're sharing that information 719 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:49,800 and we're building relationships. 720 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,000 Most of us are pretty good at that. 721 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:56,100 That's why we came civil. We went civil Affairs, but it's 722 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,800 sometimes the more basic things that trip us up and we get here. 723 00:38:59,900 --> 00:39:02,600 So first, we've got to show up ready to go. 724 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,100 We must send our best people on the advance party. 725 00:39:07,700 --> 00:39:10,500 When main body hits the ground, they can't be wasting time. 726 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,300 Trying to figure out the program. 727 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,900 I mean, I've seen occasionally units not even show up day one 728 00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:17,700 of ours. So and I have a day to and I 729 00:39:17,700 --> 00:39:21,300 will tell you, it sets them so far behind because they didn't 730 00:39:21,300 --> 00:39:23,800 send an advance on, and they didn't even show up on time to 731 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,500 the fight. That hasn't An often but I've 732 00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:27,700 seen it. Yeah. 733 00:39:27,700 --> 00:39:29,400 We've got to send the best Supply. 734 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,400 Sergeant on ADD Bond. We've got to send the best combo 735 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,400 Sergeant, we can find on add a bond and we have to send a 736 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,000 pretty talented member of the C Mod. 737 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,300 Q can integrate with the Brigade staff from receipt of mission on 738 00:39:41,300 --> 00:39:44,500 when Advan hits the ground, we have to get those vehicles in 739 00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:47,100 the supported brigades G CS s Army hierarchy. 740 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:48,800 Why? Because your vehicles are going 741 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,100 to break out here, right? It's some of the harshest 742 00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:53,300 terrain, you're going to train on a hundred, pretty pretty 743 00:39:53,300 --> 00:39:57,000 harsh conditions, especially during the Vehicles aren't 744 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,500 showing up on the equipment. Status report Parts aren't going 745 00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:03,700 to get ordered or installed why? This is something that I need to 746 00:40:03,707 --> 00:40:05,100 learn to. I was a company Commander 747 00:40:05,500 --> 00:40:08,000 because the ESR, the equipment status report is what 748 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,400 commanders. Look at if a brigade or 749 00:40:10,408 --> 00:40:13,600 Battalion Commander sees a vehicle on that report, that 750 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,200 doesn't have parts of hurt against it or that has Parts on 751 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,000 hand, but not installed. They're going to do their part 752 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,800 to motivate the right people to get it done. 753 00:40:21,500 --> 00:40:24,100 If you don't have that level of Commander, Focus, your vehicles 754 00:40:24,100 --> 00:40:25,200 aren't going to be fully Mission capable. 755 00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:28,200 Capable and your teams and be left behind in some technical 756 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,800 assembly area somewhere. Because again, if you're an 757 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,100 anchor, you're going to be left behind another thing. 758 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,900 Get your Communications up invalidated as part of the 759 00:40:36,900 --> 00:40:39,600 brigades comics, this actually starts. 760 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,300 Well before add Von though, you need to come with the comms 761 00:40:43,300 --> 00:40:46,800 package that matches a brigades pace plan as closely as 762 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,200 possible. And I understand, not all of our 763 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,700 units are going to have that robust of the package. 764 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,200 You're only going to know what that equipment. 765 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,900 Is after actively engaging, the brigades S6 many months out and 766 00:40:59,900 --> 00:41:01,900 if you're missing the right equipment, you've got to work 767 00:41:01,900 --> 00:41:05,400 with your Battalion, your Brigade, or even your K, com6 to 768 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,700 get it and get it working. That's just going to be critical 769 00:41:08,700 --> 00:41:11,400 so that you can communicate. Then in sure you've got the 770 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,700 right person on the ground to get it operational. 771 00:41:13,700 --> 00:41:18,100 Well, before its time to cross, the line of departure, hfj BCP, 772 00:41:18,100 --> 00:41:20,800 sing Gars zipper and a laptops are all things. 773 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,100 You need to bring to the modern fight. 774 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,100 Finally to that. That talented capture major from 775 00:41:27,100 --> 00:41:29,100 the sea mock. They've got to get their on ADD 776 00:41:29,100 --> 00:41:31,300 Vaughn and have them integrate with the staff. 777 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,900 When the main body arrives, the sea mock member better, be a 778 00:41:34,900 --> 00:41:38,500 trusted member of the Brigade staff he or she has already dug 779 00:41:38,500 --> 00:41:41,100 into Mission analysis. Figured out all the war fighting 780 00:41:41,100 --> 00:41:45,000 functions and staff sections that company can bring value to. 781 00:41:45,300 --> 00:41:46,900 I think you almost want that person. 782 00:41:46,900 --> 00:41:50,100 So endeared to the Brigade staff that you're fighting the Brigade 783 00:41:50,100 --> 00:41:53,000 commander of the Brigade, XO to make sure they can actually come 784 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:54,700 back and be part of your organization. 785 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,100 Or at least, you know, live between the two organizations, 786 00:41:58,500 --> 00:42:02,100 being able to walk between the Operation Center and the see 787 00:42:02,100 --> 00:42:04,400 mock filling that Gap, that's what you want. 788 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,400 If you can do those three things, having a great Supply 789 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,900 Sergeant on the ground, the great cam sergeant, and that see 790 00:42:09,900 --> 00:42:11,700 mock member coming in on, ADD Vaughn. 791 00:42:12,100 --> 00:42:14,100 That's a mission. Critical investment will pay. 792 00:42:14,100 --> 00:42:16,300 Dividends throughout the company's time at NTC. 793 00:42:17,300 --> 00:42:20,700 Yeah, great points. I've seen that work effectively 794 00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:26,500 and so much to the point where humid teams and the Ops officer 795 00:42:27,500 --> 00:42:30,900 until staff you, whatever you got in the SS 9 as well. 796 00:42:30,900 --> 00:42:32,800 Certainly. But they're coming over to the 797 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,600 ca element that's often collocated with Brigade. 798 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,000 If it's the headquarters element, from that company teams 799 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,600 typically tasked out to those battalions but yeah, they're 800 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,400 often coming by like, hey, by the way, we got a meeting. 801 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,600 Make sure that's on your radar. We've got questions, we need you 802 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,100 guys to help us out with something playing this next 803 00:42:52,100 --> 00:42:55,500 mission. And yeah, being plugged in And 804 00:42:55,500 --> 00:42:58,500 knowing that rotation knowing the op Tempo, the battle rhythm 805 00:42:58,500 --> 00:43:00,000 of. That Brigade is a huge huge 806 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,900 deal. What would you say though? 807 00:43:02,900 --> 00:43:07,300 About integration with the other ircs for a see, a unit to be 808 00:43:07,300 --> 00:43:10,700 successful, what do they have to do in coordination with the siop 809 00:43:10,700 --> 00:43:15,100 pa0 and those other sections? So coordination, there is 810 00:43:15,100 --> 00:43:18,200 obviously important. So I think I said this earlier, 811 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,600 but one thing I really like to tell the ircs as a whole, when I 812 00:43:22,607 --> 00:43:26,600 briefed him during RSO, and I is that we need to combine arms in 813 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,900 the information environment. So I'm a civil Affairs officer, 814 00:43:29,900 --> 00:43:31,300 right? I believe in our mission, what 815 00:43:31,300 --> 00:43:33,700 we do, and I think we can do great things as a regiment. 816 00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:38,200 But I know that when you bring civil Affairs psyops in other 817 00:43:38,300 --> 00:43:43,000 ircs together, we are greater than the sum of our individual. 818 00:43:43,100 --> 00:43:44,900 Parts, right? We produce, you know, higher 819 00:43:44,900 --> 00:43:47,000 level results. So, how do we do that? 820 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,800 So, first and foremost, we need to have a process for 821 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,400 integrating those and how we do that here at the National 822 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,400 Training Center, or at least how we coach to do that is through 823 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,300 the information operations working group, right? 824 00:43:59,300 --> 00:44:02,100 Somebody first of all, within the Brigade staff needs to be 825 00:44:02,100 --> 00:44:06,800 designated the chief of I/O, or the io coordinator for the 826 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:11,400 Brigade, and they bring all of these ircs together to start 827 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:16,200 coming up with plans. Understand how a we're going to 828 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,900 try to affect the enemy, right? How the Brigade is going to 829 00:44:20,100 --> 00:44:23,900 execute maneuver to affect that enemy and then how we can bring 830 00:44:23,900 --> 00:44:27,400 to bear our capabilities, to enhance that brigades maneuver, 831 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:28,800 right? Because at the end of the day 832 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,200 again we're warfighters. We're not humanitarians out 833 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,900 here. We are trying to enable that 834 00:44:33,900 --> 00:44:37,100 Brigade to fight and win better than if we weren't here. 835 00:44:37,900 --> 00:44:40,400 So you usually do this to the information operations working 836 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,900 group, which you want to happen prior. 837 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,600 Prior to the targeting working group, because your outputs from 838 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,200 the information operations working group need to be the 839 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,500 inputs into that targeting working group for the most part. 840 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,400 A lot of these things are going to be done as targets. 841 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,400 That will then be re sourced and executed. 842 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,200 If they make it through that process, some of those things 843 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,500 aren't going to necessarily be targets but they will go into 844 00:45:02,500 --> 00:45:03,900 other plans, right? They'll get in the plants 845 00:45:03,900 --> 00:45:07,500 process and you'll help determine courses of action for 846 00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:09,500 the next objective, based on that. 847 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:14,600 So that I owg and having that I owe, Coordinator identified are 848 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,100 going to be the key to bringing all those folks together. 849 00:45:17,500 --> 00:45:20,600 Another thing that I want to say about that, the iow G is not, 850 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,900 not really where the sausage is made. 851 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,900 As people say, right? That's where we all come 852 00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:28,800 together and agree and prioritize. 853 00:45:28,900 --> 00:45:35,000 What we want to do, I see often civil Affairs and psyop because 854 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,800 often times there were in the same use the kapok patch are 855 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,800 pretty comfortable hanging out together building relationships, 856 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,700 you know within That team and are pretty effective at saying, 857 00:45:45,700 --> 00:45:48,700 hey, this is how I think we can help each other produce better 858 00:45:48,700 --> 00:45:51,100 results. Sometimes is a little harder 859 00:45:51,100 --> 00:45:53,600 when people don't have that you see kapok patch on, right? 860 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,900 Where that first Special Forces command patch and we, you know, 861 00:45:56,900 --> 00:45:59,800 we've got to actively build those relationships. 862 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,600 And sometimes it's not going to be with other ircs, sometimes 863 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,800 it's going to be within often. It should be with the S2, right? 864 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,800 Or the S3. So we understand what operations 865 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,300 are going to happen and against, Enemy that's utilizing. 866 00:46:14,300 --> 00:46:16,200 You know what order of battle and what set? 867 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,300 So, Ya Doin? What we do is civil Affairs 868 00:46:19,300 --> 00:46:22,400 building relationships. That's the implied task in there 869 00:46:23,100 --> 00:46:25,700 that I'll specify, you know, for the sake of everybody being on 870 00:46:25,707 --> 00:46:27,500 the same page. That's how we do it. 871 00:46:28,100 --> 00:46:30,700 Yeah, that's good. And knowing that stuff, 48-72 872 00:46:30,700 --> 00:46:34,400 hours, 96 hours in advance so you can plan and task organized 873 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,600 in the Ops process for teams to, to us. 874 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,300 Those battalions of being the right place skate to where the 875 00:46:40,300 --> 00:46:43,700 puck is, I guess. So he talked About this a little 876 00:46:43,707 --> 00:46:46,000 bit already, but I wanted to see if you have any other comments 877 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:51,100 about the best ways for CA units to prepare for rotation and it 878 00:46:51,100 --> 00:46:55,400 could be just see a specific like a reserve component, see a 879 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,900 unit knowing who the active component, team will be there. 880 00:46:58,900 --> 00:47:02,800 The calls, the planning meetings, they have to attend in 881 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,100 preparation for an it's you see rotation with the active 882 00:47:05,100 --> 00:47:08,800 component unit, they're supporting, or just the kind of 883 00:47:08,808 --> 00:47:11,900 stuff that they need to do at home station to prepare to shoot 884 00:47:11,900 --> 00:47:14,200 move and communicate. So yeah, any other tips you have 885 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,800 for them, prepare No secrets here and I think I've already 886 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,100 alluded to this get the basics taken care of first. 887 00:47:21,500 --> 00:47:25,200 Right first things first licensed Crews, who are trained 888 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,800 and proficient to drive day or night have using night vision 889 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,700 goggles are mandatory out here. This is no final mission for 890 00:47:31,700 --> 00:47:34,700 commanders during your train up. You got to get this done. 891 00:47:35,100 --> 00:47:37,600 You're not going to keep up with the world's best mounted 892 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,300 Warriors and some of the world's harshest terrain and weather. 893 00:47:40,300 --> 00:47:42,900 If you can't operate your vehicle safely enough said on 894 00:47:42,900 --> 00:47:46,700 that second, know how to use. Or equipment, especially your 895 00:47:46,700 --> 00:47:50,500 Communications equipment. You must know how to program and 896 00:47:50,500 --> 00:47:54,200 crypt, troubleshoot your radios and daggers, and I would be 897 00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,400 remiss if I didn't recommend that you're taking advantage of 898 00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,200 space and missile. Defense commands home station 899 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:02,800 training packages to learn how to operate in a denied degraded 900 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,000 and disrupted, space operating environment. 901 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,800 I forget the exact number but within a brigade combat team, 902 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,500 there's thousands of systems that are spaced enabled, 903 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,500 utilizing GPS and satellites. Many people don't recognize that 904 00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:18,100 as a basic yet. But in lisco under multi-domain 905 00:48:18,100 --> 00:48:22,600 operations, it is space, is a war fighting domain so is the 906 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,300 electromagnetic spectrum. While ghost team has subject 907 00:48:26,300 --> 00:48:30,000 matter experts on these topics. If at all possible, you don't 908 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,800 want to wait until arriving here to get that valuable training. 909 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,500 But if you can't fill it in, especially on some of that 910 00:48:36,100 --> 00:48:38,800 operating and deny degraded and disrupt its base operating 911 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,800 environment, we can help you here and we will finally 912 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,600 understand em BMP and how to integrate civil Affairs and 913 00:48:44,607 --> 00:48:46,800 civil-military. Operations with a maneuver 914 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,200 force. In this case, the Brigade combat 915 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,300 Team part of that, you got to know what a brigade combat team 916 00:48:52,300 --> 00:48:56,500 is read FM, 3-9 6, the Brigade combat team. 917 00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,900 See you know what, the organization you are supporting 918 00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:01,300 is what its capabilities and brings to the fight are. 919 00:49:01,700 --> 00:49:05,200 It's okay not to know right now. I got it he'll before I was an 920 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,800 OCT here. I hadn't even thought about a 921 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,200 brigade combat team since since 2009. 922 00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:13,300 I mean, I'm an endo pay common law and civil Affairs officer 923 00:49:13,500 --> 00:49:16,800 who spent most of his time at These and on Navy ships, right? 924 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,700 No bcts in sight. I understand that many of one, 925 00:49:20,700 --> 00:49:23,400 see a podcast listeners have spent their time on more exotic 926 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,000 deployments as well. But before you come to the 927 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,500 National Training Center, you need to understand what a BCT 928 00:49:28,500 --> 00:49:31,900 is, what mission it has and what is comprised of so that, you 929 00:49:31,900 --> 00:49:34,900 know, how you can apply your craft to support it. 930 00:49:36,100 --> 00:49:38,600 Thank you so much. I wonder if we could close this 931 00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,100 conversation with a recruitment pitch. 932 00:49:41,500 --> 00:49:44,200 So, can you tell listeners why they should consider 933 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:48,000 volunteering to be in oct.4 for one or more rotations? 934 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,400 Like what's typically involved in basically why they should do 935 00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:52,800 it? Yeah. 936 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:57,100 So 100% we live or die by our Act is we don't got him. 937 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,700 Nobody's me training here. So for civil Affairs, officers 938 00:50:00,700 --> 00:50:04,800 or ncos and TCS the place become an expert at your craft. 939 00:50:04,900 --> 00:50:07,700 You get to see civil Affairs units, come through every 940 00:50:07,700 --> 00:50:10,900 rotation and work through the most challenging collective 941 00:50:10,900 --> 00:50:13,500 training event. The Army has to offer, whether 942 00:50:13,500 --> 00:50:16,100 you realize it or not at the time it changes. 943 00:50:16,100 --> 00:50:19,900 You you internalize the lessons that you're often helping reveal 944 00:50:19,900 --> 00:50:21,400 to the unit, you're partnered with. 945 00:50:22,300 --> 00:50:26,100 Also, being an OCT here is a service to the Civil Affairs. 946 00:50:26,100 --> 00:50:28,800 Regiment, you're building the regiment civil Affairs. 947 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,400 Companies cannot train, without OCT s who have the requisite 948 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,800 experience and strength of file to qualify. 949 00:50:35,300 --> 00:50:37,600 Volunteering to be an OCT at the National Training. 950 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,400 Center is an investment in the Civil Affairs, regiment and your 951 00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,000 army, you'll provide the training that will enable civil 952 00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,500 Affairs soldiers to secure the victory of the next war. 953 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,900 Finally ghost team is a pretty cool team to be a part of our 954 00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:54,900 team has professionals from civil Affairs information 955 00:50:54,900 --> 00:51:00,300 operations, psyop, space public affairs and electronic warfare. 956 00:51:00,900 --> 00:51:03,800 You can write out your skills as a soldier prepared to fight on 957 00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,100 the modern Battlefield. Will being part of a pretty 958 00:51:06,100 --> 00:51:09,600 tight-knit and well-respected team that draws from both active 959 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,900 duty and the reserves. I want to highlight that we're 960 00:51:12,900 --> 00:51:16,000 proud of our multi, compo flavor, that's not something we 961 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,100 try to. We try to shy away from whether 962 00:51:18,100 --> 00:51:20,700 active or Reserve, you matter on this team. 963 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:25,300 In fact, our team executive officer major, Jeff White is an 964 00:51:25,300 --> 00:51:28,200 army reservist serving on a Das orders, right? 965 00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,300 He's in the leadership of our team. 966 00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:33,400 So if you're an active duty officer and CEO talk to your 967 00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,200 branch manager and see what options are available. 968 00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,900 Are out there for coming here and if you're an army reservist, 969 00:51:38,100 --> 00:51:40,300 get out of Tour of Duty and fill out your application. 970 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,400 I and the rest of the team, can't wait to meet you. 971 00:51:44,700 --> 00:51:47,000 And I'll close that by saying. You've got a kick-ass logo, 972 00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,300 which is really cool to wear Major. 973 00:51:49,300 --> 00:51:51,600 John Burns of the ghost Team National Training Center. 974 00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:52,800 Thanks so much for being on the show. 975 00:51:53,900 --> 00:51:55,500 Yeah, thanks for having me again. 976 00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,400 I'm a longtime listener. I really value what the one see, 977 00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,600 a podcast brings to the regiment, the level discussion. 978 00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:05,200 So anything I can do for anybody they can feel free to reach out 979 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,500 to me. You put my contact information 980 00:52:07,500 --> 00:52:11,000 to show notes and I'm looking forward to getting other members 981 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,900 to ghost team for the National Training Center for smart. 982 00:52:13,900 --> 00:52:17,900 You who've rotate through here on to the podcast so that we can 983 00:52:17,900 --> 00:52:21,600 continue this conversation and how we train, you know, not just 984 00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,300 a civil Affairs, regiment but are Army to win the first battle 985 00:52:25,300 --> 00:52:27,200 the next four? Yes, sir. 986 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:28,700 Thank you. Have a good time in the desert. 987 00:52:29,500 --> 00:52:32,700 Well, cow. Thank you for spending some time 988 00:52:32,700 --> 00:52:34,300 with us. Please subscribe. 989 00:52:34,300 --> 00:52:38,200 And come back for another installment, one, CA until then 990 00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:44,100 be safe and secure the victory. In civil Affairs, your success 991 00:52:44,100 --> 00:52:46,800 depends on getting the right information to the right, people 992 00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,100 at the right time. Whether it's foundational 993 00:52:49,100 --> 00:52:52,100 information for a team about to head out on a mission or putting 994 00:52:52,100 --> 00:52:55,200 together a map or other data visualization to brief a general 995 00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,200 or an ambassador Tesla Government Solutions and staff 996 00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,200 can help with Tesla government's Knowledge Management Solutions. 997 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,000 You're adding a strategic partner that helps unleash the 998 00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,300 full power and potential of your information. 999 00:53:06,700 --> 00:53:09,200 Let us unpack your data and put your knowledge to work. 1000 00:53:09,500 --> 00:53:16,700 Learn more at Tesla gov.com. Elsie 38, brand.com the Civil 1001 00:53:16,700 --> 00:53:19,200 Affairs Lifestyle. Brand a little bit of something 1002 00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:24,200 for everybody t, shirts, polos shorts, hats flags, and posters 1003 00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,700 for your walls and stickers for everything else. 1004 00:53:27,100 --> 00:53:29,800 Celebrating the heritage of civil affairs, from the Civil 1005 00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,300 reconnaissance of Lewis and Clark Through The Monuments Men 1006 00:53:32,300 --> 00:53:35,400 of World War Two and companies of Vietnam representing the 1007 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:37,300 present teams of the global war on terror. 1008 00:53:37,500 --> 00:53:40,100 We have items for citizen soldiers of use of kapok and 1009 00:53:40,100 --> 00:53:42,900 Warrior diplomats at Fort, Bragg alike, Elsie. 1010 00:53:43,300 --> 00:53:45,800 Eight brand.com. It's cool to like your job. 1011 00:53:43,300 --> 00:53:45,800 Eight brand.com. It's cool to like your job.