1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:04,000 Welcome to one. See a podcast. 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,100 This is Jack today. We have Brian Hancock as the 3 00:00:07,100 --> 00:00:09,900 guest host. Brian is interviewing Marine, 4 00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:12,900 Major Robert Boudreau, and attorney and civil Affairs 5 00:00:12,900 --> 00:00:17,400 officer who deployed with the 31st meu, being an attorney for 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,400 the federal government in his civilian career, Rob. 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,700 Wanted me to note that the interview is an informal 8 00:00:22,700 --> 00:00:26,500 discussion that represents only his views and does not represent 9 00:00:26,500 --> 00:00:29,300 the views of the United States government Department of 10 00:00:29,300 --> 00:00:31,500 Defense. The Marine Corps or any other 11 00:00:31,500 --> 00:00:34,500 components. So beyond that, there's a lot of 12 00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:36,600 great stuff. So enjoy the show. 13 00:00:38,900 --> 00:00:40,400 Thank you. Mayor of Rio and again, welcome 14 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,400 to the show. I understand that you just 15 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:47,400 recently returned the 31st meu and that's a 31st has a somewhat 16 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,500 unusual mission that they perform for the core and also an 17 00:00:51,500 --> 00:00:55,600 interesting relationship with the 3rd Marine Expeditionary 18 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,200 Force are met that they Port. Tell us a little bit about that. 19 00:01:00,100 --> 00:01:00,700 Yeah. Thanks Brian. 20 00:01:00,700 --> 00:01:03,400 Sure thing just to provide a little bit of context at the 21 00:01:03,408 --> 00:01:06,400 time I deployed, I was a civil Affairs Detachment Commander 22 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,100 with fourth civil Affairs group out of Miami Florida. 23 00:01:09,500 --> 00:01:11,400 So that's a reserve unit. I served there for about four 24 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,700 years now, attached to the 31st meu, as an augment of a civil 25 00:01:14,700 --> 00:01:18,600 Affairs Detachment. So looking first at the 31st meu 26 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,500 and three math, and where they fit into the competition. 27 00:01:20,500 --> 00:01:24,400 Continuum think it's helpful to look at the maps mission 28 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,600 statement, which is that the MEP provides the United States with 29 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,100 a forward-deployed force and Readiness. 30 00:01:29,100 --> 00:01:33,300 In the Theater as a globally. Responsive expeditionary and 31 00:01:33,300 --> 00:01:36,100 fully scalable Marine, air-ground, task force, that is 32 00:01:36,100 --> 00:01:38,900 a magnet have capable of generating deploying and 33 00:01:38,900 --> 00:01:41,900 employing, forces for crisis response, forward presence, 34 00:01:42,100 --> 00:01:45,400 major combat operations, and campaigns remember is 35 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,800 headquartered in Okinawa. So, when you think about what 36 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,100 the Marine Corps is currently doing in the Pacific region, 37 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,200 can't ignore what that means. Per having, you know, large 38 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,500 headquarters element out there in that strategic location. 39 00:01:55,900 --> 00:01:58,600 The 31st meu is similarly headquartered on Okinawa. 40 00:01:59,300 --> 00:02:02,000 Now for those less familiar with a magnet ask what that looks 41 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:03,600 like. The mag tap is made up of an 42 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:07,400 aviation Logistics, infantry combat and headquarters element. 43 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,000 So those four elements they can come in different sizes so to 44 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:12,900 speak. So we mentioned scalable, a 45 00:02:12,900 --> 00:02:14,700 method you're looking at like a division level. 46 00:02:14,900 --> 00:02:17,800 You've got the vision level unit supporting it the next session 47 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,200 on the load. That would be a brigade. 48 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,800 So three Meb 3rd. Marine Expeditionary Brigade is 49 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,600 also headquartered out there and then below that is the 31st meu. 50 00:02:25,300 --> 00:02:28,600 So the 31st meu has an infantry battalion in aviation Squadron 51 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:30,300 illegitimate Essex baton supporting at as well as the 52 00:02:30,308 --> 00:02:33,000 headquarters element. So the view is also going to be 53 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:34,800 paired up as an Expeditionary Unit. 54 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,700 It's paired up with a navy, amphibious group. 55 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,000 So when the Navy patrols with am you attached together? 56 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,100 Their embarked on, you know, several ships, prepared for 57 00:02:42,100 --> 00:02:44,500 whatever Naval operations need to be conducted. 58 00:02:45,500 --> 00:02:49,400 So typically a mess has three, subordinate news and run that 59 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,900 are really high Tempo. So whereas the other Muse, 60 00:02:51,900 --> 00:02:56,300 typically go through a one-year period of work up Patrol, the 61 00:02:56,300 --> 00:02:57,900 31st meu, does it every six months. 62 00:02:58,100 --> 00:03:00,200 So you're talking really compressed timelines to get them 63 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,500 you to integrate with the Navy presence and activity within the 64 00:03:03,508 --> 00:03:06,200 Pacific. So whether that means partnering 65 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,800 with the Japanese self-defense forces to conduct training or 66 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,900 engaging in humanitarian operations, in response to 67 00:03:11,900 --> 00:03:14,500 tropical storms or participating in joint. 68 00:03:14,700 --> 00:03:17,700 Multinational exercises, you know, at some examples, the 31st 69 00:03:17,700 --> 00:03:19,900 new is always ready to execute whatever mission is called for 70 00:03:19,900 --> 00:03:22,200 in the moment. Now, looking for a little bit 71 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,200 more at the 31st meu and how it views itself is considers 72 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:26,700 itself. The premier crisis response 73 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:29,500 force in the Pacific. Its motto is ready partner. 74 00:03:29,500 --> 00:03:31,200 Dat lethal. Which I think summarizes pretty 75 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,900 much what they're trying to accomplish and how they view 76 00:03:33,900 --> 00:03:36,500 their their strategic importance in the world. 77 00:03:36,500 --> 00:03:38,900 So thinking about that phrase. Ready, partnered and lethal. 78 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,400 I think there's a lot you can unpack as to how the mute eyes 79 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,300 into the National Security strategy. 80 00:03:43,700 --> 00:03:46,400 And as that trickles down Through the defense strategy 81 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,600 than the Pacific strategy and the Mew is really the technical 82 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,600 translation of what the objectives in those strategies 83 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,900 looks like. So as we think about what the 84 00:03:54,900 --> 00:03:57,800 competition landscape looks like and what it means not just for 85 00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,800 the Marine Corps, but for the United States to maintain that, 86 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,700 persistent forward presence to build credibility in the region 87 00:04:02,700 --> 00:04:05,600 as a partner of choice and to be ready as a crisis response 88 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,600 Force. The 31st meu is really the tip 89 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:08,800 of the spear for the Marine Corps. 90 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,000 Thanks for that major Bordeaux fascinating Mission and that 91 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:17,500 persistent forward presence. Since of the 31st meu, puts them 92 00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:21,600 in an ideal position to I was a suspect managed, the increasing 93 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:26,200 number of worldwide crisis and national disasters, were having 94 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,400 that are resulting in humanitarian, assistance 95 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,100 disaster relief. We could obviously drop the 82nd 96 00:04:32,100 --> 00:04:36,100 by are very quickly, but if we drop those army forces in there 97 00:04:36,100 --> 00:04:38,600 as opposed to the Marines off the Mew, they would suck 98 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,500 resources out of the limited resources available in a crisis, 99 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:47,200 whereas some you can can leave This year, do good work not been 100 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,000 resources and then return to the ship. 101 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,600 So that is an increasingly critical mission that you've 102 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,600 been part of. Can you tell us a little bit 103 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,400 about your specific role in that mention, as well, as how you 104 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,300 prepared in that work up or the mission? 105 00:05:01,900 --> 00:05:04,200 Yeah, absolutely. I'll break down the two parts of 106 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,600 that and first talk about what the Civil Affairs mission was. 107 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,800 So within the view in the occult a little bit informal because 108 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,600 you know, civil Affairs is kind of a bolt on and capability in 109 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:17,800 many ways. But where we shook out as we 110 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,400 became part of the S3 operation section and then specifically, 111 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,500 we fell inside the operations in the information environment, the 112 00:05:24,500 --> 00:05:27,400 oie cell. So any effects that we saw to 113 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,100 achieve were coordinated with the Lido. 114 00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:32,500 IE Planner on my patrol, we had a major, whose chopped over to 115 00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:35,600 us from three Meg. That's a marine information 116 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,700 group that sits in Okinawa that supports pre-med and then within 117 00:05:38,700 --> 00:05:41,900 the oie cell, we also had our public affairs, folks, or as the 118 00:05:41,907 --> 00:05:44,100 Marine, Corps has rebranded it strategic Communications or 119 00:05:44,100 --> 00:05:46,200 comps. So we had our public affairs 120 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,700 team, as well as a technical information operations officer 121 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,500 and a psychological operations team as well. 122 00:05:52,900 --> 00:05:55,900 So when we embarked that was our unit and everything that we were 123 00:05:55,900 --> 00:05:58,200 looking to accomplish would go directly into the operations 124 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,400 section and that's how we integrate across a MAG tap in 125 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:02,800 addition. We also had a Space Marine. 126 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,400 Yes, those exists. We had a Space Marine coming 127 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,800 augment us when we're underway from space force. 128 00:06:08,300 --> 00:06:11,500 Looking at the 31st Muse, Mission and particularly where 129 00:06:11,500 --> 00:06:14,200 we think civil Affairs has a fit into the competition. 130 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,400 Next, I knew that I'd be wearing two hats thinking about 131 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,600 readiness and major. Focus of the 31st meu is to 132 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,500 certify. Every embarking subordinate unit 133 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,600 in the ability to conduct them. Use Mission, essential tasks. 134 00:06:25,700 --> 00:06:28,000 So what that meant in, Practical terms for me, is that I had to 135 00:06:28,008 --> 00:06:30,700 be ready to be a utility player. So, within the operation 136 00:06:30,700 --> 00:06:33,500 section, I wear two hats, I was both we civil Affairs, planner 137 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:35,500 as well as the current op so cool. 138 00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:38,600 Large extent as a doorknob. So, you know, I had to maintain 139 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,600 a focus on training and operations and short window, you 140 00:06:41,608 --> 00:06:43,800 know, who needs to be where? Where, where we had folks 141 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,700 located? We need to support etcetera and 142 00:06:46,700 --> 00:06:48,900 then as the Civil Affairs planner, I was also responsible 143 00:06:48,900 --> 00:06:52,300 for, you know, keeping an eye on the world coordinating with 144 00:06:52,300 --> 00:06:55,200 other units in the area. Usaid other folks things that 145 00:06:55,207 --> 00:06:57,800 we're going on in the Civil environment and making sure that 146 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,500 those considerations were integrated in all aspects of 147 00:07:00,500 --> 00:07:04,300 planning executing both in terms of actually going on the patrol 148 00:07:04,300 --> 00:07:06,600 as well as training, we'll get more into that in a little bit 149 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,300 here. So, then shifting to the second 150 00:07:08,300 --> 00:07:11,900 part of your question, about preparing for the deployment as 151 00:07:11,900 --> 00:07:14,600 many deployments go, there is nothing perfect or ideal. 152 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,800 Deal about it but you know Semper Gumby Marines adapt, they 153 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,200 work, whatever they've got and they go after the mission so. 154 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,200 Well, we were called a Detachment in the table of 155 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,000 organization. Realistically that just meant to 156 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,800 packs, so it was me and a sergeant and that makes up our 157 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,400 Detachment. So I knew from the start that if 158 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,200 we were called on or as we were called on to execute civil, 159 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,700 Affairs tasks, we'd be really relying on everyone else in the 160 00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:39,900 mag tap as well as many partners that we were able to coordinate 161 00:07:39,900 --> 00:07:42,700 with on the outside to be able to achieve out size effects. 162 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,400 And then, another interesting aspect, Was that I was paired up 163 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,800 with a marine from a different unit, so we didn't have any 164 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,100 experience, drilling, or conducting field exercises, any 165 00:07:50,100 --> 00:07:53,100 of that stuff together prior to meeting during pre-deployment 166 00:07:53,100 --> 00:07:56,400 training in California. So, I was paired with Sergeant 167 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,400 Lee a Henning. She's an ncos are civil Affairs, 168 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,200 specialist out of third, civil Affairs, group, and Great Lakes. 169 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,700 In hindsight, it was actually terrific match. 170 00:08:04,700 --> 00:08:07,600 So starting heading like every other Marine had cross-training 171 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,200 to civil Affairs. Her prior specialty was 172 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,900 artillery. So she understood effects up 173 00:08:12,900 --> 00:08:16,500 until the point of coming into civil Affairs effects for her, 174 00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:19,200 always understood in a kinetic context. 175 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,200 So, what an artillery round is accomplished thing, as opposed 176 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,000 to what effect is a particular message, having a population 177 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,700 group. But through that lens, she was 178 00:08:27,700 --> 00:08:31,000 able to integrate well with our psyop team with roie, folks 179 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,700 looking at At achieving effects in the information environment 180 00:08:33,700 --> 00:08:35,799 as opposed to physical environment getting more into 181 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:38,500 the specifics of work up. You know is fairly routine. 182 00:08:38,500 --> 00:08:41,900 You're talking going to shooting ranges, talking to the docks, 183 00:08:41,900 --> 00:08:45,000 making sure that your damaged or missing gear is taken care of. 184 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,200 But the other thing we want to do is make sure that we had a 185 00:08:47,208 --> 00:08:49,900 good rip the transfer of authority with the folks that we 186 00:08:49,908 --> 00:08:52,500 were replacing. So not only did we get on Zoom 187 00:08:52,500 --> 00:08:55,400 calls with the outgoing civil Affairs Detachment, I found out 188 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,100 who the, the previous three Detachment commanders were going 189 00:08:58,100 --> 00:08:59,300 back foot patrols. And I reached out to every 190 00:08:59,300 --> 00:09:01,500 single one of them and said, hey, give me your after-action. 191 00:09:01,700 --> 00:09:04,600 And let me know what to expect. What are the patterns? 192 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,200 Like, in the new, what were the, some of the things you're able 193 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,000 to accomplish things you left behind? 194 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:09,500 What can I expect? And make sure that I'm 195 00:09:09,500 --> 00:09:12,200 integrated both of the battle rhythms, and can the real world 196 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,700 as we get ready for the patrol. So a lot of information all at 197 00:09:15,700 --> 00:09:18,500 once, but I think some parts of it were fairly routine, but 198 00:09:18,500 --> 00:09:20,200 other aspects. We want to make sure that we 199 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:21,600 left the Civil Affairs, footprint. 200 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:27,300 As soon as we got to the meal, I'd like to dig into the work up 201 00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:30,100 just a little bit more in the training, we do that a lot in 202 00:09:30,100 --> 00:09:33,700 both the Army and the Marine Corps, we have a number of 203 00:09:33,708 --> 00:09:36,000 traditional challenges that I suspect you're cracking. 204 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,600 And when we go to us, particularly validate civil 205 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,400 Affairs capabilities at service level and Joint little 206 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,900 exercises. These exercises often don't 207 00:09:46,900 --> 00:09:50,800 contain a lot of civil Affairs, content, and typically, they 208 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,700 lack the analytical strength and staff. 209 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,300 To model complex, civil systems and the resulting impacts from 210 00:09:59,300 --> 00:10:02,700 fires and maneuver. Did you experience this in your 211 00:10:02,700 --> 00:10:05,600 work up? And if so, what did you do about 212 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,000 it in my time? At for keg, we went through the 213 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,900 same concerns. So the CAG supports tabletop 214 00:10:11,900 --> 00:10:16,000 exercises in California in North Carolina to math out there at 215 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:17,800 the training center in San Diego. 216 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,800 And, as you point out, these are, these are routine problems 217 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,000 where there's not necessarily a focus. 218 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,700 Sure that civil Affairs is hitting their mess. 219 00:10:25,100 --> 00:10:27,400 Depending on you know, how many folks we sent to support these 220 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,000 kind of exercises often times, we're able to decide what 221 00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:33,300 additional training value were able to achieve on our own. 222 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,200 You know, we're not trying to outshine anybody or anything 223 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:37,600 like that. A lot of his internal and just 224 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:39,300 trying to make our profession work better. 225 00:10:39,700 --> 00:10:41,500 But we start building those things in ourselves. 226 00:10:41,500 --> 00:10:43,900 So whether it's, you know, anticipating possible, injects 227 00:10:44,300 --> 00:10:47,800 or creating our own internal frag owes to create our own 228 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,800 civil considerations, those are things that we think about right 229 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,800 from the start. So, whereas your service level 230 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,300 or your joint folks, are Often focused on achieving Battlefield 231 00:10:56,300 --> 00:10:59,100 dominance or solving complex Logistics problems. 232 00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:01,100 Or hey, how do we integrate this new capability? 233 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:03,900 We're looking early at. Hey, here's where civil Affairs 234 00:11:03,900 --> 00:11:05,400 are likely to plug in, in the scenario. 235 00:11:05,500 --> 00:11:07,800 Here's, you know, things that we should start anticipating and 236 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:09,500 let's make this more meaningful for ourselves. 237 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,100 Even if the mag tap isn't necessarily thinking in terms 238 00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:15,000 of, hey, where is civil Affairs? Kind of fit and how do we make 239 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,400 sure that those guys trained up? So to give you a real simple 240 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,100 example, as we went through the certification exercises for 241 00:11:21,100 --> 00:11:23,300 them, you to be able to check the box that hey, they're ready 242 00:11:23,300 --> 00:11:25,600 to go out on patrol. The Like, telling that was with 243 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,100 us, he'll be 31. They were the lead element to 244 00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:32,700 conduct assessments supporting a humanitarian assistance survey 245 00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:36,200 team a Hast as part of a notional Disaster Response 246 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,200 scenario during one of the certification of Illusions. 247 00:11:38,300 --> 00:11:41,500 So with them, you did and where VA guys take a greater role in 248 00:11:41,500 --> 00:11:45,000 this as we were reaching out. So, Nina Kessler usaid civil, 249 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,700 military liaison. She works closely with the mask 250 00:11:47,700 --> 00:11:49,700 with the mad with him. You we reach out to her and 251 00:11:49,700 --> 00:11:51,500 said, hey, would you like to participate in this, you know, 252 00:11:51,500 --> 00:11:54,700 can you help the new make this train more realistic and need is 253 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:56,800 Tastic? No matter who she's talking to 254 00:11:57,100 --> 00:11:59,700 within 15 minutes, you just received a mini Jayhawk like, 255 00:11:59,700 --> 00:12:02,200 you know, what usaid does, you know, it does ask for 256 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,800 responsible, collect for the US and now, you understand 257 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,400 specifically. Hey, here's how the military 258 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,900 plugs in the other thing we did was we created our own scenario 259 00:12:09,900 --> 00:12:11,500 in Jack's. For example, we drafted for a 260 00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:13,900 ghost, you need to anticipate that based on the scenario. 261 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,500 There's going to be a displaced persons problem. 262 00:12:16,500 --> 00:12:18,400 They're going to deal with whether that's setting up a 263 00:12:18,408 --> 00:12:21,100 display civilians camp or you know considering how this is 264 00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:23,800 going to interfere with maneuver or with other Disaster Response. 265 00:12:24,300 --> 00:12:26,800 You know we had Relationship working the step process. 266 00:12:26,900 --> 00:12:29,600 I go to the CLD 31 top. So when I say, hey you got some 267 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,100 down time out there in the field, consider using this, and 268 00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:34,400 they were grateful for that because they also understand 269 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,500 that if we're thinking about the problems are going to face, it's 270 00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:38,100 going to make them more effective. 271 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,500 If we have to conduct civil Affairs asked real world. 272 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,200 So, by creating these in D X, we would develop our own civil 273 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,000 Affairs concept of operations which we're kind of internal. 274 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,900 So when I say internal it gave us a product to share with the 275 00:12:50,900 --> 00:12:54,600 oie folks so near in a planning session or sending out. 276 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,000 Augment to support the half the oie folks could look at you and 277 00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,800 say, hey now I know exactly what you're doing because I've got 278 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,000 two here in front of me. I can take this, I can take your 279 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,600 objectives and I could now build those into the larger oie 280 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,100 picture and then it's also available to be disseminated to 281 00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:08,500 them. You. 282 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,900 Another thing that we touch on briefly is integration so we 283 00:13:11,900 --> 00:13:14,500 were lucky to have some really enthusiastic folks from the Mig 284 00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:17,000 that are really excited about getting out and doing things in 285 00:13:17,008 --> 00:13:19,900 the information environment and civil Affairs opens up a lens 286 00:13:19,900 --> 00:13:22,600 that often times they're not able to to use as much as they'd 287 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,600 like because many of the authorities. 288 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,900 At the Meg has to go through to conduct oie becomes an obstacle. 289 00:13:27,900 --> 00:13:30,800 You're talking multiple layers of review, authorization, 290 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,700 authorities, potentially. The highest levels of level of 291 00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:35,300 government. Civil Affairs does not 292 00:13:35,300 --> 00:13:38,800 necessarily have those sorts because so military operations, 293 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,700 their inherent in any military task. 294 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,900 So when you have somebody whose job is to think about, hey, 295 00:13:42,900 --> 00:13:45,900 where can we use this capability and it affects the information 296 00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:48,600 environment, it creates a lot of value there for the Meg. 297 00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:52,600 Something I've wanted to ask you because I could see this is a 298 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:57,000 risk to Mission or maybe as an opportunity, when you have an 299 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,900 expeditionary Force, like the Marine Corps in actual terrain, 300 00:14:01,900 --> 00:14:07,700 where disasters and conflict happens, seems to me you could 301 00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:11,300 move from what started as a training mission to dealing with 302 00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:15,500 a real-world events. Very quickly, just just a very 303 00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:18,800 almost a flick of a switch. Did you experience? 304 00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:22,600 Is that at all in your time on the 31st meu. 305 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,700 How did they prepare for? What is a foreseeable potential 306 00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:28,500 risk to Mission? Yeah, absolutely. 307 00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:31,500 So we did have exactly that experience for contacts. 308 00:14:31,500 --> 00:14:34,200 The Muse, when they go through the certification for patrol 309 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,500 actually go through three. Iterations of exercises do for 310 00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:41,900 us or certification pipeline, if you will, that cycle went over 311 00:14:42,100 --> 00:14:44,200 the Christmas and New Year's holidays. 312 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,300 And during that time, there was a real world typhoon that came 313 00:14:47,300 --> 00:14:49,700 up. So you already Add kind of a 314 00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:52,400 foundation of trust because um, you had already been through 315 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,700 that initial step of going through variety Mission sets 316 00:14:55,700 --> 00:14:57,600 together and then what do you know here's a potential 317 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,800 humanitarian disaster that we could be called on. 318 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,800 So as you can imagine, it's going to go through the exact 319 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:04,300 same steps you did in training if you did it, right? 320 00:15:04,300 --> 00:15:06,100 Do we train like we fight or do we fight like we trained? 321 00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:08,100 You know, hopefully, we're on the right side of that equation. 322 00:15:08,100 --> 00:15:10,700 So for us, it was the same thing we bring in all the staff, all 323 00:15:10,700 --> 00:15:13,000 the planning staff. And we go through the RTP to 324 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,700 planning process and start thinking about, hey, you know, 325 00:15:15,700 --> 00:15:16,700 who are we going to have to call back? 326 00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:18,600 Who's going on leave? Who's not on the, what is it? 327 00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:21,900 The asset Readiness for the Squadron, do we have all of our 328 00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:24,100 vehicles ready to go? What is the timeline look like? 329 00:15:24,100 --> 00:15:25,700 What's the the time-space distance? 330 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,400 How long is it going to take us to get to this particular 331 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,100 region? So we work through it just like 332 00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:31,100 in training and we're going to go through all the 333 00:15:31,100 --> 00:15:34,900 considerations fill out the the 60 70, 80 percent solution, 334 00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:37,000 whatever information we have available, go through that and 335 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,300 be ready for this potential real world mission which could 336 00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:42,100 interrupt the patrol cycle. But as you point out, that's why 337 00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:44,800 we're there to do the real world stuff, the training gets us 338 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,800 there and makes this more ready. But the other day with are not 339 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,200 just two The boxes or hit the wickets. 340 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,200 Our job is to be to be ready to respond. 341 00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:57,600 Something that comes to my mind, you are likely tracking in 2017, 342 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:02,500 Congress passed the women, peace and Security Act and Laser DOD 343 00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:05,400 created implementation guidance for that in 2020. 344 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:10,400 And civil Affairs has a big role in women, peace and security. 345 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,400 Did you do anything or your team, do anything with the 346 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,700 women, peace and security lines of effort during the 31st news? 347 00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:21,600 Is deployment. And if so, could you share some 348 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,800 lessons learned in that area for the rest of the Civil Affairs 349 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,800 community? Absolutely, as you put it out 350 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,300 women, peace and security is the framework for approaching 351 00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:32,600 vulnerable populations in general. 352 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,600 So the ACT focuses specifically on women and girls and a 353 00:16:35,608 --> 00:16:38,400 fundamental concept there is that can't achieve stability 354 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,000 anywhere if you ignore the voices of literally half your 355 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,100 population, if you cut the women and girls out of the 356 00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:44,900 conversation or you're not protecting their interests 357 00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:47,000 ensuring basic human rights, then you're never going to 358 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,300 achieve lasting stability. So the Marine Corps has various 359 00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:53,800 military occupations. Especially MLS codes there's 360 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,200 additional ones within civil Affairs but for planning which 361 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,800 is a Of course, as well as for being a female engagement 362 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,700 officer or female engagement specialist. 363 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,400 So I had been through the training the summer before my 364 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,099 deployment to obtain the female engagement officer MLS. 365 00:17:07,099 --> 00:17:10,400 So WPS was something that was very familiar to us that pork 366 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,000 egg. And we had all started thinking 367 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,800 about how does this affect our mission? 368 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:16,300 What are the things we should be thinking about? 369 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,900 So during our pre-deployment training, me and Sergeant 370 00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:21,400 Henning, actually assisted her with going through the training 371 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,200 to get the female engagement specialist MOS. 372 00:17:24,500 --> 00:17:28,300 And I also Basically laid out as a challenge like, hey, this is, 373 00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:31,300 this is a real cool, evolving area of civil Affairs. 374 00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:33,900 You know, let's see what we can do to bring this from you and 375 00:17:33,900 --> 00:17:36,600 make it part of their mission. So, what we did at the, the Mew 376 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,300 is we basically try to find a way to make that part of the 377 00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:43,400 typical considerations but also to make it almost a function. 378 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,400 So I think with this really plays out from the example of 379 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,300 female engagement teams, as many of our listeners are going to be 380 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,400 familiar with during the war on terror, the Army, the Marine 381 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,900 Corps created, what we called female engagement team. 382 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,300 So these were Basically tailor-made, civil Affairs teams 383 00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:01,300 that were responsible, specifically for going out and 384 00:18:01,300 --> 00:18:04,600 talking to females in the village, the moms, you know, the 385 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,900 tribal leaders wives, the girls teenagers getting information 386 00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:10,400 about what trying to find out what additional things are going 387 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:11,500 on that. The intelligent folks weren't 388 00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:13,200 able to get to traditional means. 389 00:18:13,500 --> 00:18:16,300 But also looking specifically at what those needs were the women 390 00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:18,500 were facing. That weren't necessarily being 391 00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:20,400 understood by military leadership. 392 00:18:21,300 --> 00:18:23,400 So using that model. And I talked about the 393 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,000 Afghanistan drawdown, it's funny because female engagement team. 394 00:18:26,300 --> 00:18:29,100 Get a rebirth in the United States of all places with the 395 00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:31,600 50,000 or so Afghan refugees that came in. 396 00:18:31,700 --> 00:18:34,700 So at the different bases that we had brought refugees to Fort 397 00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:38,200 McCoy Wisconsin Fort Lee in Virginia, Quantico at each of 398 00:18:38,208 --> 00:18:39,700 those locations. There were female engagement 399 00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:42,100 team stood up to support the refugees. 400 00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:44,400 Help them through the resettlement process, addressing 401 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,000 particular needs that were there. 402 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,200 So what we did for them, you understand that the view is 403 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,900 really looking at the global theater, strategic level 404 00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:54,300 competition. We thought that a provisional 405 00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:56,800 female engagement team capability would Be a good fit. 406 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,800 So you know, kind of the example, the technical examples 407 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,500 I'm talking about going out and talking and finding out what the 408 00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:05,000 medical needs or the supply needs are in a particular 409 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,000 Community. That's not necessarily something 410 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,200 that the muses doing every day but it's something that needs to 411 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,900 be ready to do. So what we did was we created an 412 00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:14,200 off-the-shelf basically capability for them. 413 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,800 You and created an sop that could be used in two ways. 414 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,000 First of all, as a planning tool to integrate the WPS 415 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,300 considerations in planning, but also to have put the team would 416 00:19:24,300 --> 00:19:26,600 look like, here's something you can actually be You every time 417 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,600 the magnet goes out and rebuild. Team on getting a team to be 418 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,700 used where those targeted targeted civil Affairs, 419 00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:35,300 activities need to be conducted. So the SOP that we created, this 420 00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:37,200 is something that we actually submitted to the Marine Corps 421 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,200 Center for Lessons Learned. So anyone with a CAC who's able 422 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:41,600 to access the website can go there. 423 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,400 And again search for 31st. Meu people to get me a team and 424 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,000 you'll find our sop co-founder after-action from the patrol as 425 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,800 well. But in that sop you go through 426 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,300 planning considerations. So a lot of these that we 427 00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:54,500 borrowed from NATO and then Army Publications we go line by line 428 00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:56,000 like hey here are the questions that you should be asking. 429 00:19:56,100 --> 00:19:58,300 Asking during an opt during an operational planning team 430 00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:00,800 meeting here are some of the considerations you should have. 431 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,900 And then on the other side of that, it was a female engagement 432 00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:03,900 team. Actually going to look like as a 433 00:20:03,908 --> 00:20:07,900 tactically employable effective, small unit. 434 00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:10,400 Well let's look at some of the considerations for selecting 435 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,200 team members. What particular skills should we 436 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,800 be looking at four Marines and sailors that could be called on 437 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,000 to be part of that team? What are the training package 438 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,100 look? Like, are the language things 439 00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:19,500 that we need to work through where we going to get 440 00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:21,700 interpreters. Do we need to do a shooting 441 00:20:21,700 --> 00:20:24,000 package to make sure that they're able to provide internal 442 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,900 security, things of that nature. So then the female engagement 443 00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:31,400 team would have to focus is really first being ready to 444 00:20:31,408 --> 00:20:33,600 conduct those tailored missions if you will. 445 00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:36,100 But also to integrate with the planning staff and say you're 446 00:20:36,100 --> 00:20:39,100 the just one considerations that you need to think about through 447 00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:42,300 the women, peace and security lands and we were really 448 00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:44,600 fortunate on the patrol. We actually got to look at this 449 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,900 real world. So, going back to your earlier 450 00:20:46,900 --> 00:20:50,000 this year, 2022 around April, I had the opportunity to 451 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,900 participate in site surveys in the initial planning conference 452 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,100 for exercise common dog 6, which was ultimately can Ducted in in 453 00:20:57,100 --> 00:21:00,300 the Philippines back in October about six months after I had the 454 00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:02,600 opportunity to go down. But what I did over those two 455 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,000 weeks was I was like hey this is an opportunity to actually look 456 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,700 at WPS objectives, you know. So whether it's looking at hey 457 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,900 how was the u.s. modeling integration and diversity? 458 00:21:11,300 --> 00:21:12,800 How will we modeling that for our partners? 459 00:21:14,100 --> 00:21:16,100 So at the planning conference we had folks obviously from the 460 00:21:16,108 --> 00:21:19,100 Philippine Marine Corps Navy. We had Marines Services 461 00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:21,300 represented there. We have Republic of Korea 462 00:21:21,300 --> 00:21:23,400 Marines who were there and then there were other nations are 463 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,900 looking to be involved as well. So that actually gave a a 464 00:21:26,900 --> 00:21:28,900 practical opportunity. Like, hey, let's, let's look at 465 00:21:28,900 --> 00:21:32,400 what WPS looks like. So not only are we modeling WPS 466 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,600 and what those values look like, and she look like to the rest of 467 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,200 the world. What can we do to encourage our 468 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,900 partners? And so there was no template for 469 00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:42,800 this, but I wrote up in assessment Basically number 470 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,200 format, here's the considerations. 471 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,500 Here's the objectives that we're looking to achieve through the 472 00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:48,400 WPS for framework. You know, it's laid out, their 473 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,500 Duty guidance, and here are my observations. 474 00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:52,700 And what I did with that was I shared it with higher. 475 00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:55,100 So not only is it internal to the new. 476 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,600 So it became a reference for the next Patrol. 477 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,800 Definitely conducted the exercise, but it's something 478 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,500 that was shocked to hire. So, like you folks are looking 479 00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:03,100 at activities all over the world. 480 00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:05,900 Here's my observations of how we did and how our partners are 481 00:22:05,900 --> 00:22:07,700 doing with this particular exercise. 482 00:22:07,700 --> 00:22:11,000 So we're actually able to push that up multiple levels all the 483 00:22:11,008 --> 00:22:13,700 way up to and opaque on staff. And I think there were 484 00:22:13,700 --> 00:22:16,700 appreciative that honestly, folks, down to our level, we're 485 00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:20,200 even thinking about it. So it was well received and then 486 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,400 in addition to that to kind of put the bow on what we try to 487 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,300 accomplish during our Patrol Sergeant heading and I co-wrote 488 00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:28,400 a paper see mobile engagement teams and what sustaining that 489 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,300 really looks like in a competition text. 490 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:31,900 And we're looking forward to that being published in the 491 00:22:31,900 --> 00:22:35,300 January 20, 23 edition of the Marine Corps Gazette, great 492 00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:37,100 material. I look forward to reading some 493 00:22:37,100 --> 00:22:39,700 of those articles myself. I believe you and start heading 494 00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:44,100 a publishing several to Aid to One thing I always have to ask, 495 00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:45,600 of course, touches on assessments. 496 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,100 This is a very hot area for Department of Defense. 497 00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:52,100 And historically, civil Affairs has struggled to deliver 498 00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:55,800 scientifically valid measures of effect that this Fair number of 499 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,200 measures the performance. But measures of Effectiveness 500 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,900 has been somewhat Elusive and it's a complicated problem, set 501 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,600 involving collection, analysis and elements of presentation. 502 00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:08,700 Can you tell us what type of assessment you were able to 503 00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:12,500 conduct in the 31st meu and what do you see as Is the next step 504 00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:15,200 in moving. The science of see a Mo E 505 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,500 forward. Absolutely. 506 00:23:17,700 --> 00:23:20,300 And thinking about, you know, looking specifically at civil 507 00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:23,600 Affairs, one of the constant struggles is trying to determine 508 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,700 realistic and useful measures of performance. 509 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,800 You know, that's your data that your raw data, what do we 510 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,500 actually accomplishing? What are we getting out? 511 00:23:31,700 --> 00:23:34,300 Is our messaging getting out, are we conducting a sufficient 512 00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:36,600 number of engagements? We actually doing things, we 513 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,500 need to be doing and then coupled with that, is that the 514 00:23:38,500 --> 00:23:40,600 measures of Effectiveness which feeds into assessments? 515 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,900 Like not only, are we doing the tasks that we're order to do and 516 00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:47,100 we're trying to do effectively, but are we Publishing the 517 00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:49,400 ultimate objective. What is it at the end state that 518 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,700 we're trying to reach? So I think one of the things we 519 00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:53,600 always struggle with is, especially with typical 520 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,700 deployment Cycles as you're looking at shortened time 521 00:23:55,700 --> 00:23:58,100 Horizons. So for us, it's a six-month 522 00:23:58,100 --> 00:24:00,200 Patrol. What can we realistically expect 523 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:01,800 for particular activities that we're doing? 524 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,500 Are we taking the right view of what we're doing and what we can 525 00:24:05,500 --> 00:24:07,500 accomplish, when you think about the information environment, 526 00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:10,400 you're really talking about influencing hearts and minds and 527 00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:13,300 probably getting folks, to understand what we're trying to 528 00:24:13,308 --> 00:24:15,600 accomplish, and are they actually coming on board with 529 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,900 that Shiva? We wanted to, I think what? 530 00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:22,100 That translates down to for civil Affairs is not just about 531 00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:24,400 collecting data, but you need to look at Trends over a period of 532 00:24:24,408 --> 00:24:26,300 time. When you think about, you know, 533 00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:29,100 to give a simple example, you know, taking an assessment 534 00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:31,200 framework, where you're looking at, did we achieve the 535 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,200 objective? We are looking to do, you know, 536 00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:36,100 breaking down a problem set, applying a civil Affairs lens 537 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,600 and then try to understand whether you're achieving the 538 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,100 objectives that you want. Being a specific example. 539 00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:45,500 Like bombed-out power plants in particular area, you know, are 540 00:24:45,500 --> 00:24:47,800 we getting electricity on? Mine, are we measuring that in 541 00:24:47,808 --> 00:24:50,200 terms of dollars, spent for local community? 542 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,300 Get a certain number of kilowatts pumped out this 543 00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:53,800 particular Community. Okay? 544 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,700 That's that's a nice data point. But are we achieving the 545 00:24:56,700 --> 00:24:59,800 longer-term objectives? It's hard to put a scientific 546 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,000 brand of her stamp of approval, if you will all that, because a 547 00:25:03,008 --> 00:25:04,500 lot of that is kind of softer skills. 548 00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:06,900 That's a lot of what civil Affairs deals with a soft 549 00:25:06,900 --> 00:25:10,600 skills, as much as we'd like to use that data analytics driven 550 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,700 stuff. Sometimes we know what right 551 00:25:12,700 --> 00:25:15,000 looks like through experience. Here's how we know we're being 552 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,000 effective in this particular area because our partners 553 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,300 invited us back and a lot of those effects that you're 554 00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:22,400 looking at is getting translated up over time to things that have 555 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,500 strategic level impact. So I understand that I'm kind of 556 00:25:25,508 --> 00:25:28,200 giving you a shotgun answer to your question, but for us when 557 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,100 the Civil Affairs community, and I think kind of always working 558 00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:33,500 through those, you know, fundamentals and making sure 559 00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:35,000 that you're capturing what you're doing. 560 00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:38,400 Turning it over to the folks who were placed you and making sure 561 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,500 that information is disseminated being analyzed and then pushing 562 00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:44,500 enough higher where appropriate, those are the kind of realistic 563 00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:46,400 expectations. I think from a Marine Corp. 564 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,700 Effective, trying to make sure that our measures of 565 00:25:48,708 --> 00:25:52,300 Effectiveness are being met. And then over time, if a process 566 00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:54,300 of being followed, right? Your assessments are going to 567 00:25:54,300 --> 00:25:55,900 build off that, where you going to be able to see. 568 00:25:55,900 --> 00:25:58,700 This is what the objective was. Here's the exercise timeline, 569 00:25:58,700 --> 00:26:00,200 here's the things, we're trying to accomplish. 570 00:26:00,300 --> 00:26:03,200 Hey, here's what this community looks like nowadays, here's 571 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,300 what's happening when we want to go and do things there? 572 00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:07,300 Here's their attitudes, things like that. 573 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,200 You got to look at it from a whole lot of mgtow, of whole of 574 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,100 service, every environment. Every domain approach, it's 575 00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:15,400 going to matter what cam straps doing, it's going to matter 576 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,700 what, you know, our You folks are doing, we're going to have 577 00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:20,200 to take all that information into account when you're when 578 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,000 you're ultimately going through the assessment process and 579 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,500 seeing if you've been effective assessments are just a very 580 00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:28,700 thorny problem, but funding now is often tied with demonstrating 581 00:26:28,700 --> 00:26:31,300 return on investment through assessment. 582 00:26:31,300 --> 00:26:34,600 I so I suspect will be returning to this conversation many times 583 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,800 in civil Affairs. One of the perennial problems. 584 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,100 Of course, is, if one appointment, produces some civil 585 00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:45,400 effects, it sometimes takes years to fully realize the 586 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,800 potential of that. Years later, the follow-on units 587 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,700 don't assess. Oftentimes what was done by 588 00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:55,200 previous units. We don't have that continuity 589 00:26:55,300 --> 00:26:57,500 for long-term assessments when we need to figure out that you, 590 00:26:57,508 --> 00:26:59,400 that better I think is an Enterprise within Department 591 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,700 defense. I have one last question for 592 00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:03,300 you, one of the third novel things. 593 00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:05,400 The Marine Corps has done is they've done some key 594 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,900 Investments of tanks and other assets to build new formations 595 00:27:09,900 --> 00:27:13,200 aligned to the realities of Modern Warfare, particularly in 596 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,200 us and opaque on one of the innovations that they've come up 597 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,400 with. With is the Marine littoral 598 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,900 regiments or mlr. And they have a new operating 599 00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:25,700 concept called expeditionary, Advanced base operations. 600 00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:29,800 He ABO, what do you see from your Foxhole as the role of 601 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,300 civil Affairs in the mlr as well as within the E ABO contract? 602 00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:38,900 Sure thing and to lean on another weak analogy, but common 603 00:27:38,900 --> 00:27:39,600 phrases. We're building. 604 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:40,900 The airplanes were flying it, right. 605 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,300 So we have the doctrine. We've got all these things that 606 00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:45,200 are coming out, right? The naval operating concept 607 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,600 forces on 2030 ebo, so, yeah, lots of learning going on at all 608 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,900 levels of the Marine Corps civil Affairs, especially recognize 609 00:27:52,900 --> 00:27:54,500 when we have such a tiny footprint. 610 00:27:54,500 --> 00:27:57,200 I think the most important thing from my perspective for civil 611 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,300 Affairs is that the small unit training is where it's going to 612 00:28:01,300 --> 00:28:05,400 have kind of an outsized impact. So when you're looking at Get 613 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,600 operations, you're talking about, potentially to squad team 614 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,500 size elements and diverse locations. 615 00:28:10,700 --> 00:28:12,700 How do you make sure that those folks are conducting civil 616 00:28:12,700 --> 00:28:14,000 military operations to the extent? 617 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,200 They need to to make themselves more effective. 618 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,500 Well it's gonna depend on that smallest unit trainings, just to 619 00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:22,200 put a fine point on it. I can tell you right now every 620 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,400 infantry battalion out there every test for officer. 621 00:28:25,500 --> 00:28:27,700 Their supply guys are all thinking about, hey, how am I 622 00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:30,000 going to get stuff to my guys in the field when they going to be 623 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,800 kind of left on their own to deal with and inevitably, what 624 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,900 that means is that hey there's going to be a lot of activity. 625 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,500 That civil environment. Do they have the tools that they 626 00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:39,100 need? Are they able to interact the 627 00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:41,600 way that they need to? Are they getting the information 628 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,000 about the Civil environment that they need to? 629 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,500 So, there's a lot of layers on that and it's going to be tons. 630 00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:47,900 And tons of really good work that civil Affairs folks are 631 00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:50,500 going to be able to provide support those missions as they 632 00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:52,800 come up. But in addition to that, it puts 633 00:28:52,900 --> 00:28:55,700 the onus on civil Affairs, folks, to make sure that the 634 00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:59,600 training is getting out so that we've got a small contingent of 635 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,400 civil Affairs, Marines, they can't be everywhere at once. 636 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,500 How do I make sure that this specialized capability Is being 637 00:29:05,500 --> 00:29:09,200 executed and is available to the small unit that's in a distance 638 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,400 location that I'm not able to get to right away. 639 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,400 So, I think there's three kind of legs to this. 640 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,800 First of all, you've got your preparation of the battlespace, 641 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,600 right. You've got ipb intelligence 642 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,900 prep, well, feeding into that, as your symbol preference battle 643 00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:21,300 space. So thinking about who the 644 00:29:21,300 --> 00:29:22,900 players in the area, what are the people groups? 645 00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:25,300 What are the languages? Was the economy look like, what 646 00:29:25,300 --> 00:29:27,600 are those really important factors that are going to matter 647 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,600 to distributed units? Or do they need to be ready for? 648 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,800 So that's step. One is not only going to get a 649 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,900 break from the to, but we need to make sure that civil affairs. 650 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,500 What considerations are being built into that product, into 651 00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:40,100 that information is disseminated on top of that, we want to make 652 00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:42,400 sure that people are understanding civil military 653 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,600 operation tasking. So just because you're sending a 654 00:29:44,608 --> 00:29:48,000 team out to do whatever mission. That may have kinetic aspects. 655 00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:50,600 You also need to be aware that they're in a civil environment. 656 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,500 Now, it's on that small unit leaders to understand what civil 657 00:29:53,900 --> 00:29:56,200 Affairs tasks. He may be required to accomplish 658 00:29:56,900 --> 00:29:59,000 the making sure that that's understood by the staff and is 659 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,800 built into the orders development process. 660 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,700 And then finally, I already had on this training is going to be 661 00:30:02,708 --> 00:30:04,900 everything. Making sure that that folks are 662 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,900 Are are ready to execute when the time comes. 663 00:30:08,300 --> 00:30:11,600 I'm standing download. I am smarter by the minute, 664 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,200 listening to you. Tell us how you have succeeded 665 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,200 in the mission set that you're provided giving the audience, a 666 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,700 number of things to think about, as well as some documents that 667 00:30:20,700 --> 00:30:23,400 have been published and our upcoming Publications. 668 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,000 If they want to review more, appreciate everything that 669 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,700 you're doing for us. We got to remember that we're 670 00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:32,000 one team, doesn't matter what uniform you wear. 671 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,800 We always do everything joint combined. 672 00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:35,800 Thanks for coming on the show today. 673 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,200 Number five, I really appreciate it, guys. 674 00:30:40,300 --> 00:30:43,700 Thanks for listening to the one. See a podcast, your guest host 675 00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:47,600 today was Brian Hancock, who interviewed Robert Boudreau will 676 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,400 have their information in the show notes. 677 00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:52,600 Additionally, we have more marine and see interviews coming 678 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,800 up. So stay tuned and please 679 00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:57,700 subscribe. Like, share, tell all your 680 00:30:57,700 --> 00:31:00,400 friends. This is Jack have a great day. 681 00:30:40,300 --> 00:30:43,700 Thanks for listening to the one. See a podcast, your guest host 682 00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:47,600 today was Brian Hancock, who interviewed Robert Boudreau will 683 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,400 have their information in the show notes. 684 00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:52,600 Additionally, we have more marine and see interviews coming 685 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,800 up. So stay tuned and please 686 00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:57,700 subscribe. Like, share, tell all your 687 00:30:57,700 --> 00:31:00,400 friends. This is Jack have a great day.