1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:06,700 You're going to want from us, is the the sound file. 2 00:00:08,500 --> 00:00:11,000 Let's talk a little bit for background on this thing because 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,300 I really want this to be rich and I know you too. 4 00:00:14,500 --> 00:00:17,700 Well up into one CA this is Jack today. 5 00:00:17,700 --> 00:00:21,000 We have bread fought know, I'm a retired army colonel, I was 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,600 commander of the 1st Brigade, 1st Armored Division, 1995 97, 7 00:00:25,300 --> 00:00:27,800 Greg is guest hosting today and Greg who you going to be talking 8 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:32,700 to today with Brigadier General retired paddle, Neil, we're 9 00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:35,100 going to talk about civil Affairs, operations, and 10 00:00:35,300 --> 00:00:38,900 operations, generally in the early entry phase of operation 11 00:00:38,900 --> 00:00:43,800 joint Endeavor, LC 38 brand.com, the Civil Affairs Lifestyle, 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,900 brand a little bit of something for everybody t, shirts, polos 13 00:00:47,900 --> 00:00:52,200 shorts, hats flags, and posters for your walls and stickers for 14 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,600 everything else. Celebrating the heritage of 15 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,100 civil affairs, from the Civil reconnaissance of Lewis and 16 00:00:57,100 --> 00:00:59,800 Clark Through The Monuments Men of World War Two and companies. 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,200 Vietnam representing the present teams of the global war on 18 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:04,900 terror. We have items for citizen 19 00:01:04,900 --> 00:01:08,000 soldiers and used to kapok and Warrior diplomats at Fort, Bragg 20 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,100 alike, Elsie 38 brand.com, it's cool to like, your job. 21 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:21,100 Joe Neal was the atcs to the 1st Armored Division, as well as the 22 00:01:21,100 --> 00:01:23,800 commander for the handout part of the footprint of the first 23 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,400 time of vision, which included the Tactical headquarters and 24 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,000 that meant, 1st Brigade, 1st Armored Division, and the 25 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,900 aviation gate, without further Ado, General O'Neill with you 26 00:01:34,100 --> 00:01:37,700 briefly introduce yourself. Yeah thanks. 27 00:01:37,700 --> 00:01:41,400 Greg background is, I was assigned to the 1st Armored 28 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,400 Division about four months before we actually launched into 29 00:01:45,700 --> 00:01:48,400 Bosnia and Herzegovina as a result date and cord. 30 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:53,500 So this was a unique operation that actually in the early 31 00:01:53,500 --> 00:01:58,100 stages helped us validate our Decades of training and such 32 00:01:58,100 --> 00:02:02,200 things as River Crossing and operations, extended operations 33 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,900 for heavy forces. So this was kind of in our 34 00:02:04,900 --> 00:02:08,600 wheelhouse. But it was extremely unique in 35 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,400 that we were going in in the dead of winter and as it turned 36 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:17,000 out, ran into 100 year flood. Most of the divisions chain of 37 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,900 command turned over that summer. I took him in a June. 38 00:02:19,900 --> 00:02:22,900 The devotee can enter turned over later that month second 39 00:02:22,900 --> 00:02:25,900 Brigade turned over in June or July. 40 00:02:26,100 --> 00:02:28,800 So that by the end of the summer you had a whole new command 41 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,100 group and we went in to Bosnia lesson, six months later. 42 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:34,800 So the first question I'd like to pose to your pad. 43 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,900 How was civil Affairs, support organized during the crossing of 44 00:02:37,908 --> 00:02:42,000 the Sava River and for those of you who are listening to this 45 00:02:42,300 --> 00:02:45,200 crossing the Sava River was a major Tactical Operation, but it 46 00:02:45,208 --> 00:02:46,800 was a task, it's not the mission. 47 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,700 A mission was get into Bosnia. So this is a task that had to 48 00:02:49,700 --> 00:02:51,700 proceed the rest of it in general O'Neill. 49 00:02:51,700 --> 00:02:54,600 In this case was acting as a Crossing Force Commander where 50 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,200 as I was the day Commander, The Crossing area commander. 51 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,200 So he superintended that Al operation. 52 00:03:00,300 --> 00:03:03,500 So, normally in an operation like this, you're in the context 53 00:03:03,500 --> 00:03:08,000 of a larger military operation disk, this was crossing the Sava 54 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,200 River grid point out, the task was to introduce Force. 55 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:12,900 There was no force on the other side of the river. 56 00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:18,300 Save some Are all delivered units that we flew into Tuzla, 57 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,700 otherwise we were to, this was the soda straw, that was going 58 00:03:22,700 --> 00:03:26,700 to bring force in. So there we were banks of the 59 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:32,500 river winter snowing and the river goes up to a flood stage 60 00:03:32,700 --> 00:03:36,200 challenge here, which centers on civil Affairs. 61 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:41,800 Is, how do you understand the local environment? 62 00:03:42,500 --> 00:03:47,500 As we established at the rear on the river, we created a coming 63 00:03:47,500 --> 00:03:51,100 information center and actually it's a core of that turned out 64 00:03:51,100 --> 00:03:55,600 to be to see a this is an issue of terrain I can look at the 65 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,800 physical terrain. Fine, what is human train with? 66 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,200 Like was a political terrain. Look like what's the economic 67 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,000 train look? Like, that's what I don't have. 68 00:04:04,700 --> 00:04:08,300 And while there are plenty of people around to help with 69 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,400 crossing the river engineers and All sorts of other people. 70 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,600 There is no one to help me. See the terrain, except for Ness 71 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:22,300 to see a team. Some other smaller organizations 72 00:04:22,700 --> 00:04:25,500 that can help. So that's, that's the sum total 73 00:04:25,500 --> 00:04:27,200 of it. This is all pretty well 74 00:04:27,500 --> 00:04:30,800 documented. By the way, in several different 75 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,700 references. I have initial Impressions 76 00:04:32,700 --> 00:04:37,400 report, operation joint, Endeavor, September 96, call, 77 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:42,500 and several other reports that was it neatly talk to Yay. 78 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:48,000 One of which is called Mission, TS is website and it it's a 79 00:04:48,300 --> 00:04:52,000 description of CIA operations in particular, in Boston. 80 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,000 So, I commend that to the point. You made about understand the 81 00:04:56,008 --> 00:04:59,800 human terrain, it is worth highlighting, because, you know, 82 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,200 the Army experiment with human terrain teams in Afghanistan and 83 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,200 Iraq found some utility in it, but the system wasn't 84 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,300 particularly well-managed. So, one of the things, maybe the 85 00:05:08,300 --> 00:05:11,300 Civil Affairs committee could look at the future is, how do we 86 00:05:11,300 --> 00:05:13,500 increase our Capacity to assess human terrain. 87 00:05:13,900 --> 00:05:18,500 So the second question I wanted to post today is at what point 88 00:05:18,500 --> 00:05:21,600 were you able to establish a civil military operations 89 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,400 center? Where was it located? 90 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,900 And what area did it service? Well, see Mark which would you 91 00:05:27,907 --> 00:05:30,700 we wouldn't recognize today because they've grown in terms 92 00:05:30,700 --> 00:05:35,100 of involvement and complexity and organization but then it was 93 00:05:35,100 --> 00:05:39,900 established in the rear in a steel plant actually north of 94 00:05:39,907 --> 00:05:43,600 the summer River. Now So tentative team, six 95 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,000 people in it, but they were, they were what I had and they 96 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,100 were very active and they reinforce my view of the use of 97 00:05:51,100 --> 00:05:54,900 the USA are in helping these organizations. 98 00:05:54,900 --> 00:06:00,300 So, as we cross the river, who should we run into, but the 99 00:06:00,300 --> 00:06:06,000 British SAS surprise and then we begin to introduce force and 100 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,800 security forward as we did that. And first brigade began to 101 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,100 occupy the post of Enoch. Carter, we spread out RCA 102 00:06:14,300 --> 00:06:19,300 resources to begin to understand the town's and infrastructure, 103 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,400 and the political environment, and the economics. 104 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,400 What was left of the country in that region, follow-up. 105 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:30,200 Question the point you made about SAS has an important one. 106 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,100 Because both you, and I assumed that we would fall in, on 107 00:06:34,300 --> 00:06:37,900 Special Operations forces, SF to be precise, who would be in the 108 00:06:37,907 --> 00:06:41,200 area that would provide some of the assessment of what was going 109 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,300 on humans. The other and political terrain. 110 00:06:44,100 --> 00:06:48,000 Instead we found the SAS, I thought those those folks were 111 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,600 brilliant and I was disappointed that we didn't get the SF forces 112 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,200 on the ground, so leg, it's not a problem for CA. 113 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,400 But if going forward, one of the things we got to make sure as we 114 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,900 deploy, our special forces, civil Affairs in the rest of us, 115 00:07:00,900 --> 00:07:02,600 all arrived in a way that makes sense. 116 00:07:03,100 --> 00:07:05,900 The thing that you mentioned about the Civil military 117 00:07:05,900 --> 00:07:09,700 operation centers, it was small probably inadequately band at 118 00:07:09,700 --> 00:07:11,700 that point and no place to set up anything. 119 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:13,600 I think you had to have, you know, you and I were in an 120 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,100 unheated, bombed-out hotel to start with. 121 00:07:16,100 --> 00:07:18,900 We're do you, how do you get into a building? 122 00:07:18,900 --> 00:07:22,700 How do you get in a command post or see mock established without 123 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:27,100 finding access to space? Well, yeah, I mean this is a 124 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,700 recurring problem. The best you can do early on is 125 00:07:30,700 --> 00:07:34,700 to find a single structure and you have a chair in there, 126 00:07:34,700 --> 00:07:38,300 literally a chair in there, for each of the functions that you 127 00:07:38,300 --> 00:07:41,400 need to have directly at your, don't they then? 128 00:07:41,900 --> 00:07:46,800 To Temporary structure outside. So it's a wheel and spoke kind 129 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,800 of arrangement. We won't get these people 130 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,300 involved. In setting up structure you want 131 00:07:51,300 --> 00:07:53,700 to have a separate organization that's out there. 132 00:07:53,900 --> 00:07:57,900 Setting up the new better facility, not these people 133 00:07:57,900 --> 00:08:01,300 because these people are on 12-hour shifts and they are 134 00:08:01,300 --> 00:08:06,000 running hard great point and for those who are listening in the 135 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,500 early stages of an operation like this that the in a place 136 00:08:08,500 --> 00:08:11,500 where the destruction so complete, the only thing I could 137 00:08:11,500 --> 00:08:14,500 think gov that look like Bosnia. When we first went in our 138 00:08:14,500 --> 00:08:18,000 pictures of World War, Two Villages Villages destroyed in 139 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,400 World War Two and a fighting in Normandy later on a journey. 140 00:08:20,900 --> 00:08:23,400 Literally, the first joint military commission meeting the 141 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,300 1st. Armored Division held was held 142 00:08:25,300 --> 00:08:26,900 in a restaurant that had no roof. 143 00:08:27,300 --> 00:08:31,200 And therefore, no heat No Light, No, nothing to transition to the 144 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,100 relationship of civil Affairs. And other means that we have in 145 00:08:34,100 --> 00:08:37,299 the US Army, was there a point in your mind were civil Affairs 146 00:08:37,299 --> 00:08:38,799 and what we? Now, think of, as information 147 00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:42,500 operations overlapped, and what if any help that And with that, 148 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,900 I think this is a time where you can talk about psyops as we 149 00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:48,600 called it then and public affairs support, you know, 150 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,600 that's that's a, that's an interesting idea. 151 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,900 You can't think of civil Affairs in a stove pot, you have to 152 00:08:54,900 --> 00:08:59,200 think about it, in terms of the areas that it influences and 153 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,500 what other areas those overlap information operations is 154 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:07,700 obviously a Capstone process to involve psyops. 155 00:09:07,700 --> 00:09:12,300 See a Contracting of all places. Your S 2 and And what our 156 00:09:12,300 --> 00:09:16,200 internal resources, they have you met, he lent, all that kind 157 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,700 of stuff, but you've got to build that whole picture. 158 00:09:19,300 --> 00:09:22,500 And I found that one of the wanting things in this operation 159 00:09:22,500 --> 00:09:27,500 is there was no technique or technology that built that 160 00:09:27,500 --> 00:09:30,400 Mosaic for you. That could give you a 161 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,300 description of what you look like and what information 162 00:09:34,700 --> 00:09:40,100 organizations were out there and what they were saying, and you 163 00:09:40,100 --> 00:09:41,600 were never quite prepared for that. 164 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,500 Pio actually plays a role in that whole operation. 165 00:09:44,500 --> 00:09:46,700 Obviously I mean they would call that their bailiwick but it's 166 00:09:46,700 --> 00:09:51,000 not it's a team effort. And so creating this team of 167 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,800 organizations that are interested in Information 168 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,500 Management, they contribute to Information Management are 169 00:09:55,500 --> 00:10:00,900 critical early and create them early and often that is a that 170 00:10:00,900 --> 00:10:05,800 is a fantastic observation here. And I think the thing that from 171 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,000 a brigade commanders perspective that was most problematic is 172 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,600 that seventh army training center did a brilliant job of 173 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,200 training Hang us and the transition from combat 174 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,000 operations to post combat operations, are transition to un 175 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,400 support operations. We did that in each two-week, 176 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,500 task force rotation. We did have human intelligence 177 00:10:23,500 --> 00:10:27,100 and Counter Intelligence training support and we did have 178 00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:30,700 some supervision supervised training support in negotiation, 179 00:10:30,700 --> 00:10:33,100 techniques in the rest of it. We had no public affairs 180 00:10:33,100 --> 00:10:35,200 support. We had no civil Affairs, support 181 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,900 and the training. We did in the division and Corps 182 00:10:37,900 --> 00:10:41,800 train UPS as you'll recall was pretty thin in that as well. 183 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,300 Would you not agree that it would be absolutely essential in 184 00:10:46,300 --> 00:10:49,700 training large, formations Brigade, and up at least to 185 00:10:49,700 --> 00:10:52,700 include civil Affairs, miso or psyops or whatever. 186 00:10:52,700 --> 00:10:54,800 We're going to call it now, as well as the whole information. 187 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,900 Operation Spectrum. I think that she a community is 188 00:10:58,900 --> 00:11:03,100 going to have to step up here. Here's the backdrop to this. 189 00:11:03,300 --> 00:11:07,000 There was no see a play in any of the work up operations. 190 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:11,000 We had the first encounter is CA, is there in a Humvee? 191 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,700 They're gonna cross the river and they're trying to get 192 00:11:13,700 --> 00:11:18,000 information Force anything they did anyway, and user was melt 193 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,300 all the user reports. 50 quarter reports. 194 00:11:20,300 --> 00:11:27,300 All reports do not mention see a period, so that That said I 195 00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:31,700 think the CIA is going to have to step up and create the 196 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:36,800 dynamic that causes people like me to have to act and I keep do 197 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,900 that they're going to have to do it and they're going to have to 198 00:11:38,900 --> 00:11:42,300 be a part of the workup of all the operations that are involved 199 00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:46,600 in this dimension. So simply put, we need to train 200 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:51,500 as we intend to operate exactly in a lot harder than we do now. 201 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,300 The next thing I want to talk about is as a Crossing Force 202 00:11:55,300 --> 00:11:57,500 Commander. You had to lead the see a effort 203 00:11:57,500 --> 00:12:00,500 in the beginning. You had the lead with the 204 00:12:00,500 --> 00:12:03,300 civilian communities with the assessment to a large extent 205 00:12:03,300 --> 00:12:05,000 with Contracting. The kind of things we had to 206 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,100 have all of those. When do you, when do you believe 207 00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:11,900 in time and space, did we make the transition from you running 208 00:12:11,900 --> 00:12:14,800 the shows across the Force, Commander to me, picking up part 209 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:16,800 of the problem? As the crossing area commander 210 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,800 is, I began across forces. Yeah. 211 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,000 Well, we were crossing in your bio so you know, we were We 212 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,700 became visitors pretty quickly. There's not a date per se, this 213 00:12:27,700 --> 00:12:31,700 is an Echelon with process and we wrestle awning to a coat, 214 00:12:31,700 --> 00:12:35,100 factory and lukavac. I think that's a great way to 215 00:12:35,100 --> 00:12:37,700 put it and one of the things that would remind those who are 216 00:12:37,700 --> 00:12:40,700 listening in an early entry operation, let me just say a 217 00:12:40,700 --> 00:12:42,100 couple things about the timeline. 218 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:48,000 I flew with six on these and 11 people in a C-17 on the 16th of 219 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,400 December and was down on the side of a river on the 19th or 220 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,200 20th. At O'Neal and others float in 221 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,000 behind us. We built the capacity on the far 222 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,200 side of the river, finally were able to cross the River on the 223 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,300 30th of December. I spent my first night in Bosnia 224 00:13:03,300 --> 00:13:08,200 New Year's Eve and within a week or so, General O'Neill had moved 225 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:12,600 South because now, the crossing was, we had the MP Brigade in 226 00:13:12,608 --> 00:13:17,200 the area, 130th Brigade, The onus of Crossing, even though 227 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,100 still rested on General O'Neill, shoulders had now passed to the 228 00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:22,400 supporting units and we're doing the reception. 229 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,900 Beijing on removing integration of forces as they came across. 230 00:13:26,100 --> 00:13:30,300 So, from my perspective Pat, the transition was easily done 231 00:13:30,300 --> 00:13:33,800 because we had a relationship. We understood, you know, who was 232 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,200 who, and what had to be done and the difference in our roles, but 233 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,200 at the same time, I think we understood how those roles 234 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,600 converged. So, the message to our civil 235 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:46,300 Affairs friends is work with the operators and attempt to 236 00:13:46,300 --> 00:13:49,300 lubricate. We're possibly the interspecies 237 00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:53,000 of connection and division because when we broke Oh, that 238 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,200 out. I stood up to see Mock and that 239 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,000 was very late, January, early days, in February, to be precise 240 00:13:59,300 --> 00:14:02,200 because it took that long to get a reserve civil Affairs units 241 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,400 into us. So then support for things like 242 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,700 acquisition in the rest of it. So this is a handoff in, you're 243 00:14:08,700 --> 00:14:13,000 right. It's not a daytime group in 244 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,800 civil Affairs, your success depends on getting the right 245 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,200 information to the right, people at the right time. 246 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,000 Whether it's foundational information for a team about to 247 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,900 head out on a mission or putting together a map or other data 248 00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:27,100 visualization to brief a general or an ambassador Tesla 249 00:14:27,100 --> 00:14:30,300 Government Solutions and staff can help the Tesla government's 250 00:14:30,300 --> 00:14:32,800 Knowledge Management Solutions. You're adding a strategic 251 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,900 partner that helps unleash the full power and potential of your 252 00:14:35,900 --> 00:14:38,500 information. Let us unpack your data and put 253 00:14:38,500 --> 00:14:42,100 your knowledge to work. Learn more at Tesla gov.com. 254 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,100 Under what conditions you were able to shift. 255 00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:51,100 The focus from Crossing to sustaining operations, for the 256 00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:53,600 long run that actually occurred in February. 257 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,700 There's a, there's a resilience you have to build into this 258 00:14:57,100 --> 00:14:59,600 single Bridge. The old bridge was blown up that 259 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,100 there was no hope and never repairing it. 260 00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:06,100 So this is just temporary salt float, Bridge designed for 261 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,100 temporary operations. With now, becoming very 262 00:15:08,100 --> 00:15:10,700 permanent. As a matter of fact, we moved up 263 00:15:10,700 --> 00:15:14,100 River, just try to find some other Crossing areas that we 264 00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:16,400 could install. All Temporary bridging in more 265 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,700 permanent, bridging in, to do that. 266 00:15:18,700 --> 00:15:23,500 So, I remained on the river, certainly in my heart for a lot 267 00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:26,300 of time because that is the crunch point. 268 00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:29,700 I mean, you have to have to be able to maintain that link or 269 00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:33,600 you don't get any supplies our Logistics into the skeeter. 270 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:38,600 And we're building base camps Bombs all over the place and 271 00:15:38,700 --> 00:15:41,300 that is dependent on that River. Crossings. 272 00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:45,600 Oh, it has to be sustained. So I stayed a tomb to the River 273 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:50,600 Crossing area will into march to make sure it was resilient and 274 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,800 had all the support needed. Well, you live, you lived on the 275 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,200 other stuff on the north side of the river till February sometime 276 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,200 right. Yeah, that's what I remember. 277 00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:01,300 The other thing that both of us involved were involved with and 278 00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:03,700 it's not necessarily pertinent strictly. 279 00:16:03,700 --> 00:16:06,500 A civil Affairs was managed in the main Supply Route. 280 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,700 You're right, we only had the bridge which meant that MSR 281 00:16:09,700 --> 00:16:11,300 Arizona. The main Supply Route Arizona. 282 00:16:11,300 --> 00:16:14,000 We had to maintain that, make sure it was open and that meant 283 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,800 coordinating. With the serbs and croats and 284 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,400 bosniaks. We periodically wanted to put 285 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,800 checkpoints on there, which obviously we weren't going to 286 00:16:20,808 --> 00:16:23,400 let them do. The next question I have for you 287 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:28,800 is in what way, if any did this transition regular Army's civil 288 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,200 Affairs, that was there at the outset to reserve civil Affairs, 289 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,400 assume in the mission from the early entry that have been 290 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,000 provided by the regular army forces. 291 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,300 And you mentioned, where you located to seem odd. 292 00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:41,600 But I'd like you to talk about how that transition worked and 293 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,500 how the division C mock operated. 294 00:16:43,900 --> 00:16:46,800 Well, First of all, as I mentioned previously, the USA 295 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,500 are caus be extremely professional. 296 00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:53,000 They were actually much more tuned to the issues. 297 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,100 We had in their, active can clone of Brethren, they weren't 298 00:16:56,100 --> 00:16:59,900 well equipped, they lacked Vehicles, they like to GPS. 299 00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:03,100 They like to do much other stuff and we had, we had a 300 00:17:03,108 --> 00:17:08,000 manufacturer form. So the USA are is, they came in 301 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:13,000 the theater, didn't particularly have a good transition plan. 302 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,000 You'll remember Burr in that. As a result of this whole 303 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,599 operation, we came up with concept of the right seat. 304 00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:23,700 Bride, that was not a part of the Lexicon before this. 305 00:17:24,099 --> 00:17:28,099 And we suddenly found out that as units begin to transition and 306 00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:31,100 change out. We needed a very vindictive 307 00:17:31,100 --> 00:17:33,800 architecture for how that was done. 308 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,400 Ergo the birth of the right, she tried and we didn't call it that 309 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,800 but that's what an Essence, it was early on. 310 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:46,400 So I found a transition a little wanting, but But it powered up 311 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,600 pretty quick again, back to a point. 312 00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:51,900 Civil Affairs has built relationships with these Town, 313 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:55,500 leaders, mayor's and councilman and all these other kinds of 314 00:17:55,500 --> 00:17:58,900 people. And now, as we've seen in Iraq 315 00:17:58,900 --> 00:18:02,200 and Afghanistan are for sales, they've got a transition that 316 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,700 and that was this particular operation. 317 00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:07,400 We were in a primitive stages understanding. 318 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,800 How to do that. It's not like you drive downtown 319 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,600 and say mr. Mayor, I'm Pat O'Neill and I'm 320 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:17,200 your new ca advisor. I think that's a great point. 321 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:18,700 I want to double down on the point. 322 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:22,300 You made about civil Affairs and and soldiers, generally being 323 00:18:22,300 --> 00:18:26,500 more responsive to the are peculiar needs and the posavina 324 00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:29,500 and in Northeast Asia, whereas the regular army guys, with no 325 00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:33,400 criticism intended were focused on larger broader issues you 326 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:38,600 know Bosnia why I was interested in brcko and you were interested 327 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,400 in broader area than me but still narrower than what they 328 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,800 were accustomed deal with. I also appreciated the fact that 329 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,000 in dealing with Police officers and police organizations that 330 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,600 were very big problem for us. I would have a County Sheriff 331 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,700 from a large county, in the United States, who have to be a 332 00:18:54,708 --> 00:18:58,200 reserve major, and he would run my negotiations with the police 333 00:18:58,700 --> 00:19:02,400 chief's, local police Chiefs to teach them that in Europe, you 334 00:19:02,408 --> 00:19:04,900 don't beat motorists who happen to be of a different ethnic 335 00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:08,600 group. The last question I have is that 336 00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:11,200 this whole of government sounds good, when you say it, but civil 337 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,600 Affairs has it to me, part of the way that you make that work. 338 00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:20,300 Can you address that sir? I'm Not So Into, You know, the 339 00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:23,300 u.s. being able to carry our whole of government with us to 340 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,800 these regions. We're not hauling good at it. 341 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,100 I have to say that is a powerful Insight because holy government 342 00:19:31,100 --> 00:19:36,000 is a is a buzzword without anything to it until you find a 343 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:41,500 way to make it work. And we found I believe that the 344 00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:46,600 division and even brigades and battalions Were the ones that 345 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,900 did such coordination, as we come to call whole government? 346 00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:51,700 Well, why is that partly? It's because we have the 347 00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:54,600 resources equipment, were the ones that could put up a tent. 348 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,100 If it needs to be, we can put Power Generation and there are a 349 00:19:57,100 --> 00:19:58,800 number of things we could do and bring to the table. 350 00:19:59,100 --> 00:20:02,000 But I think one of the key messages for our civil Affairs 351 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,000 folks that might be listening to. 352 00:20:03,008 --> 00:20:06,700 This is hold government. Just doesn't happen and it winds 353 00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:10,800 up being pretty difficult. I saw u.s. ambassadors I saw 354 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,600 Congress and Congressional delegations usaid. 355 00:20:14,100 --> 00:20:18,200 Everybody came with questions. If you came with resources and 356 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,500 that requires considerable effort on the military's part, 357 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,500 it's not a criticism, you know, a ID isn't equipped to do early 358 00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:28,000 entry operations. None of these organizations are 359 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,700 so a lot of it by default lights up on our head. 360 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,200 My closing thoughts for our friends and civil Affairs. 361 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,300 And if I, when I have the opportunity I pass it on to my 362 00:20:37,300 --> 00:20:41,200 operator, friends is combat operations, our team sport, and 363 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,100 the team require civil Affairs. And then that means we need to 364 00:20:44,100 --> 00:20:47,300 train together over to you. Pat got a couple of minutes, 365 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:53,400 whoo, quick points, one test for single Commander, Commanding 366 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,900 General made a really, really solid decision. 367 00:20:55,900 --> 00:20:58,900 Very early on, in the process, Egyptians the organization that 368 00:20:58,900 --> 00:21:03,200 was a GS organization And he turned it into a DS organization 369 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,100 and reassembled it and to their credit, the organization did 370 00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:10,600 this quickly. So he dispersed CA all the way 371 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,800 to the Battalion level. And that was at a brilliant 372 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,300 decision. The second thing I would say is 373 00:21:17,900 --> 00:21:23,700 the ca Community needs to continue to refine how you 374 00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:29,000 present products to the many people who are consumers of your 375 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,600 product. That is give me Medical 376 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,100 training. Give me the human terrain, given 377 00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:35,200 the economic terrain. Give me the infrastructure 378 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,200 terrain. Give me a view of terrain that I 379 00:21:39,208 --> 00:21:43,300 can see. And you can relate to me as 380 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,100 though where the crunch points truly are thanks Pat. 381 00:21:47,100 --> 00:21:49,500 I've enjoyed being a part of this and I hope it's beneficial 382 00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:51,400 to the Civil Affairs units. We've done it for. 383 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:52,900 Thank you very much, sir. Thank you. 384 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,000 The one, see a podcast comes to you from the Civil Affairs, 385 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:02,000 Association special, thanks to retired Colonel, Greg font now 386 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,200 and retired, Brigadier General, Pat O'Neill for coming onto the 387 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,900 show. If you have a story to tell or 388 00:22:07,900 --> 00:22:12,200 want to guest host, contact us at see a podcasting at 389 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,300 gmail.com. I will have a link to Greg and 390 00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:18,700 past bios in the show notes. Additionally, I included the 391 00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:21,000 email address and links to our sponsors. 392 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,100 This show is for you and others in the see a community. 393 00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:27,700 So please He's like and share. Thanks again, this is your host 394 00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:30,000 Jack Gaines signing off. Have a great week. 395 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,700 He's like and share. Thanks again, this is your host 396 00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:30,000 Jack Gaines signing off. Have a great week.