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cooperative, very involving the local populace, the local
authorities into our also our decision making process in our
semi decision making process. Hello, everybody, and welcome to
ONE Civil Affairs Podcast. I'm your host today, James
Macchicci. And today we're continuing our
dialogue with our NATO and multinational partners,
specifically focusing on the Ucom AOR.
Today we are going to be joined by Colonel Mattia Zusi, who is
the commander of the Multinational Summit Group.
He's also a civil affair qualified officer having taken
the course at Fort Bragg, NC And additionally, he has had
experience and the United States Military Professional
Development as a graduate of the 10-01 Command and General Staff
Officers course. Colonel, thank you very much,
Sir, for joining us. It's an absolute honor to have
you here. Thank you very much.
Thank you. So today we're going to be
discussing about the role of the Multinational Summit Group also
known as the MNCG SIMIC within NATO and some of the
opportunities for civil affairs formations and elements to
participate and join the MNCG in their education and operational
outreach. We'll be getting this discussion
by asking the Colonel to please introduce the MNCG and talk
about their mission. Yes, thank you very much.
MNCG is a dedicated whole military cooperation capacity
here in Motaly. Then we have double capacity,
let's say we can deploy operational and tactical assets
overseas in operations, but we can also be a Education Center
of center expertise where we provide courses, semi courses,
liaison courses and many others in order to increase the
capabilities of the. Students, So what we learn on
the field of operations, what we also study in our doctrine, then
we teach in our courses. So the add on of our capacity is
to basically draw from the experiences on the field, some
exercises and some experiences to then give to our students.
Fantastic, Sir. So you have a bifurcated or a
two kind of mission, an operational mission and
education mission. If it's Okay, I'd like to 1st
ask about some of the operations.
Where are some of the deployment histories of the civic forces
from the multinational semi group when I took the class
there? A lot of the folks are getting
ready to go to Djibouti. Where else have you guys
deployed or well will you deploy?
Yeah, We started our first deployment in 2003.
I was part of the civic detachment into Iraq Immediately
after the the war. We deployed in Nazariya with the
with the detachment of 30 people.
We have then deployed also to Afghanistan, Lebanon, Somalia, A
Djibouti, Kosovo and many other places.
By around the world and we are also deploying other assets in
Iraq, mainly staff officers. So we are deployed in both in
Africa, Asia and the Balkans. And when you deploy those
lessons learned, help build the education section, Can you talk
about some of those big lesson learns that have helped shape
the education section of the MNCG?
Yes. Mainly we the people are getting
experienced on the field, so when they have to teach, for
example, cultural classes, they can give to the students the
real taste of what cultural awareness is and what is needed
when dealing with other people coming from other countries with
different religions and different behavioral aspects.
That's the most important thing we learn on the field.
And then we are able to transfer to our students.
That's fantastic. And your students, they are
mostly CIMIC forces, correct? Yes, they are mostly CIMIC
forces, but we also house the military personnel of the navies
of the air forces. Some of them are just infantry
officers that are getting deployed overseas and for
example they have to man AS9 or a G9 cell.
So they take advantage of our experiences in order to.
Better do their business on the field.
Just to follow up on that now, CIMIC is a little bit different
than Civil Affairs. And now if you could, just for
our listeners because some of them might not be familiar with
CIMIC as they are with Civil Affairs or they might not be
familiar with either of them, Could you describe the role of
CIMIC and what CIMIC is from a NATO and Italian standpoint,
please? Yes.
Having basically done both, I can tell you that a civil
affairs have a broader perspective are a little bit
broader in terms of intervention into the single areas of a
society. Civil affairs units are able to
deploy asset functional specialists which can man also
civil areas civil society while CIMIC is a little bit more
related to the. Impact of military operations on
the civil dimension and in order to be a good interface between
the military unit and the local populace, the local authorities
and the international community, I would say that the CIMIC
impact is a little bit softer than the civil affairs impact.
Years ago I used to describe the civil affairs like a big big
garden in which there were some some flowers, some some trees.
Which were the same. So I would say that civil
affairs has a broader impact on on the civil society.
From my personal experience as well as Cynic and Civil Affairs
work best together think mutually supporting each other
as we have seen in and throughout some of the
operations in Europe and in Africa.
I have worked with fellow Cynic folks in the past and we've
mutually support each other very well.
I agree. And you know, usually instead of
underlining pointing out differences, I.
Usually underline points of contact and I would say there
are many more points of contact between civil affairs and semi
then differences. So I'm I'm always optimistic.
No, that's that's very important.
That's a very operational tactical view of it.
And you discussed the role of the school training S Nines, J
Nines and G Nines. Now with that role, how involved
has the education part of the MNCG then with making sure the
CIMIC capabilities are intertwined with other NATO
staff functions, I think specifically maybe information
and protection or anything along those lines.
Yes, you know where courses. We have the field and staff
worker course and in the staff worker part of the course we
usually teach also how to deal with counterparts of other
branches, other age cues and how to deal with information flow
with information exchange. We have always to be very
careful when dealing with with information as a cinekers we we
need to know some information to deal with them and to know how.
The civil society, the civil area is, so we need to be able
to manage information, to share information into the Hu and with
a headquarters with other headquarters that are in the
same area. That's very good.
How about public affairs? Do you find there's a big
synergy between the public affairs folks and then the staff
sections as well? Right.
They are all part of the EVO operations.
So as a semi cars we have to be the public affairs, the Evos but
also Siops with positive news, with the positive points that
can be outlined during the PAO, the media OPS and Evos activity.
So the EFO sharing in as far as Evos campaign is very, very
important and involved significantly the civic
operator. And it's something very hard to
do. I know even from our side we are
still trying to figure out the correct balance and position
especially on the non special operations side of where the S9G
nines and J nines play that role Sir.
So you would mentioned one of your courses, could you tell us
the courses you have to offer at the MNCG and are US personnel
able to attend these? Yes, we would love to to host
the many American friends here in Moto Viventa.
As you mentioned before, my professional life, but also my
private life is significantly strictly connected with the
United States. I spent also four years of my
life in Arizona, in Phoenix, visiting my my relatives there.
We do have many courses, the functional specialist course
which is mainly for the Army Reserve.
Then we have the Cimic Tactical Operator course.
That is very tactically oriented for the civic soldier, the
platoon commander, the team, the team commander such as civil
Affairs, Alpha and Bravo teams. Then we have the female
engagement team which is very important as far as gender is is
concerned. As I mentioned, we have the NATO
Civic field and staff worker course which are split into the
field part and the staff fair part, the civic liaison course
which is very, very important as far as.
Prison officers and interacting with the civil community both
international and the local host nation.
And finally but very important we we have also the
intercultural operator course which is brand brand new will
take place at the end of 2021 and there will be as
intercultural mediator course will be paramount for our
education of offer for 2021. So and if I may add, I've taken
a course at in the Mother Denevins up, I'm saying that
correctly and it is a fantastic experience.
I had the opportunity to attend the liaison officer course and
not only was it a challenging course, but the end with the
role players were fantastic and everybody learned from each
other. I will add that it was one of
the unique opportunities where it was not just Italians and
Americans and the military, we had civilians from the private
sector, the NGO sector and the state sector as well as our
teammates from Ukraine. Georgia, Poland and a few other
countries so and Austria. So it really was a fantastic
experience. I learned a lot.
So I would highly recommend that you are a US Civil Affairs
officer and you're looking for an opportunity to broaden and it
is definitely a some place to look.
And you know how important would be the presence of U.S.
Army soldiers, NCO's and officers here in motel events.
It is of a such an importance that I strongly recommend you
guys to come here and attend our tours.
And they have fantastic coffee at the breaks every break.
Best coffee I've ever had. Better than we drink.
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Dot com. Do you have an idea for an
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interview? Contact us at
capodcasting@gmail.com. I named a few of the countries
that participate in the multinational summit group
training. Are there any others?
Have you had a chance to bring anybody from Africa or Asia?
Is that something in the plans to try to develop our partners
in those regions and their capabilities?
Yes, we in the in the years we have hosted many, many officers
from the partnership of four peace area of NATO, so Northern
Africa, Middle East. We have hosted also officers
from Azerbaijan, Japan, Far Far East and other donations of the
African continent. So mainly basically our our
forces are very, very open and we are we are waiting for the
large participation ever. So you're welcome.
Always. No, I think this is important to
know because a lot of the US efforts in some areas are to
build civil military engagement capabilities within our partners
in developing nations. To know that there is a
schoolhouse that accepts soldiers, officers and other
service members from all countries is very important in
building that capability. And it's something that I would
highly recommend folks to look out and reach out to your
schoolhouse to potentially build that synergy and establish the
institutional capability. So thank you for sharing with us
Sir. That's that's very important to
some of the efforts there very much.
Thank you. I would ask you this then.
So as the school develops, what's next?
You talked about some of the reaching out to other countries.
You have talked about some of the educational aspects, but
what's next for the multinational semi group from
both the operational and from the educational standpoints?
Yes. In terms of operational concept,
we are drafting the new operational concept in which we
are making a hypothesis, the use of multinational SIM group as a
whole in operation. So the entire unit gets deployed
supporting a joint theater, LCC or combatant command entirely.
We're also thinking about changing the capabilities of a
couple of plateaus of our battalion into a special
operation. So we would like to get some of
the CA training, sub affairs training in order to increase
our our support to special operations capability.
In terms of education, as I mentioned, the intercultural
mediator course will be the most important change for 2021
author. We look forward also to send our
officers to drag in order to attend civil affairs course.
But last but not the least, we are in the process of expanding
the multinationality of multinational semi group.
That's why I would like to ask other nations, both European.
And NATO to join that multinational semi group as a
participating name. We are in the process of
discussing that with many nations, Albania, Montenegro,
but also UK and as I mentioned also the United States of
America. So, and right now it is the
Italians and what other nations make the core of the MNCG.
We are Six Nations so far, Greece, Hungary, Portugal,
Romania, Slovenia and Ely and we would like to expand at least
getting at least 2/10/10 nations.
Austria is also, as far as they know, interested in becoming a
participation participating nation, even if they are not
into completely into NATO. But as I said, we are in the
process of dramatically. Expanding our multinationality,
the more we are, the best it is. No, that's very true.
And for those who don't know, Austria is very close to where
the MNCG is and we had an Austrian officer on the podcast
a few weeks ago and he also said that the Austrian military is
trying to build a lot of partnerships.
So it's interesting this easily do this European dialogue, how
Austria as a non member of NATO is still integrating into NATO
and increasing that capability. Ability.
Sir, thank you so much for information on the schoolhouse
and how it expands. So I will ask this about CIMIC.
What do you see as the biggest challenges for the CIMIC force
in NATO in the next 10 years? Do you see it being an expanded
force that might have too much mission or are you still vying
for missions or? And what opportunities do the
CIMIC forces have in the coming years as well throughout the
operating environment? Yes, the the main challenges is
there will be to get let's say to get accepted into large scale
combat operations. We are ready for that but large
multi formations may see us as a body that they cannot.
They don't know how to use. However we are we are
challenging our our H use in order to get the other the
formations pretty acquainted of what we can do.
On our capability with respect to the opportunities, I guess
that the new, the new set of functions called CMI civil
military interaction is is paramount because leaves us the
autonomy and the back and the capacity to link with many, so
many bodies civil bodies in the world that we can significantly
increase our capabilities, our knowledge and our links with the
with the major. Stakeholder.
No, that's very interesting. And it seems like the CMI
opportunity is very linked to the challenge you have of large
scale combat operations or as you know, the US Army wants to
give everything an acronym we call LISCO.
We also have the challenges with that as well.
And I know from our standpoint, from civil affairs on the US
side is they're trying to talk about how we can be scouts in a
sense and be able to map the human terrain and let the
leadership know where there's potential threats against the
force moving. Forward.
And of course, there's always the concern about displaced
civilians on the battlefield and those obstructing the movement
of forces. And I know that's how our forces
are trying to find their role in there as well.
I don't know if you've had similar efforts.
Yes, we, we're facing more or less the same thing.
However, however, we will have to be ready for LISCO because of
you know, NATO doctrine, but also the American doctrine and
strategy are getting to that. Basically forecasting those kind
of that kind of scenario but we already it's just a matter of
getting it or of getting us accepted by the the large
formation they have to know how to employ us you know and there
will be they will be satisfied of our final product.
And do you often use large exercises, NATO exercises, to
help educate the rest of the force about the important role
of the human domain, about what CIMIC does to enable the
maneuver commander in conflict? Is that something you've had
success in the past or is that something you're going to do
further down the line? Yes, we participate every year
with an asset to NRF, an asset that is considered a component
even if reduced in number usually between 30 to 100 facts.
We are we are always employed into NRF, so we link with the
with the joint force commands. Naples and Ransom.
So they get to know us and they are also appreciating the way we
operate, but also the way we educate the age use on on the
capabilities and on the ways of interacting between the the
military domain and the civil domain.
That's fantastic, Sir and I I've personally found that while the
role in actual LISCO or large scale combat operations for CA
might not be as large, it is as in competition or cooperation as
we use the. Cooperation, competition and
conflict continuum in the US the work that CIMIC and or Civil
affairs does in the early phases as we generate and build combat
power to be able to execute that is paramount for success,
specifically knowing where our troops and our formations can
go. So exercises to me, here's one
of the most important areas and I think that's very fantastic
Sir, that the MNCG is using that as an educational standpoint to
show the important role of CIMIC in all of that.
Thank you. Do you as the NATO and in the
Italians, do you also use the competition and conflict
spectrum or do you guys have a different view of that in terms
of civics role? Yes.
As far as the civic role is concerned, we don't usually use
the competition. We don't use the counterpart or
the controversial way of dealing because we we tend to be
considered as a facilitators between the local populace and
the the civil dimensions and the military dimensions.
So we always try to be. Be to stay on the path of non
confrontational, let's say deals.
So we usually are very cooperative, very involving the
local populace, the local authorities into our also our
decision making process in our semi decision making process.
That's fantastic, Sir. And I will ask you one last
question as we start closing it out before closing comments is
there's a, what is the relationship, there's another
school CIMIC Center of Excellence.
What is the relationship between multinational Semi group and the
CIMIC Center of Excellence because some of our listeners
might have taken a course at the CIMIC Center of Excellence.
Are you guys, do you guys work together?
Are you part of the same headquarters?
Could you explain that relationship between those two
entities? Yes, they are stationed in the
Netherlands, so far away from our home station.
They are a Simic, a Cimic center.
Excellence so basically an academic body who teaches CIMIC
with adoption point of view we are we got authorized by NATO by
semi central excellence to organize twice a year our NATO
courses in which we. Add some practical experiences
gained on the field. That is what we can do.
In addition to their courses, we bring our experiences and we
give to the students the the real taste of a semi related
operation. And of course you have the
operational difference that they do not have operational forces
deploying. So that experience is very
important to what? The MNCG brings.
So Sir. Thank you so much for joining us
today. Do you have any other comments
or anything else to add? I will make sure that the link
for the school is posted in the podcast.
So listeners, if you are a Civil Affairs Officer and interested
in attending one of the fantastic courses that the MNCG
has to offer, please follow that link.
But Sir, any closing comments? Yes, you know that as I said
before, we are trying to expand our multinationality and the
participation to multinational semi group.
Of the United States of America would be of dramatic impact for
us. We are you know we are dealing
with the talks between the armies General Staff.
But my first objective for 2021 and 22 is to host here, to
welcome here the stars and stripes and Stripes flag as of
of the United States of America as a participating nation that
would be, that would be my dream.
Sir, and I think you have some important ears.
I might be listening to that from both our reserve and active
side. And as someone who has tended
the course there, there's definitely a lot of value in
having civil affairs soldiers working alongside our civic
brethren as we develop this important NATO capability that
is going to be needed in the future.
Sure. Thank you so much again for
joining us today. It is an absolute honor to have
you here once again. We were talking to Colonel Zusi
who is the Commander of the Multinational Semi Group in Moto
de la Venza Italy. Multinational Semi Group once
again has a two-part approach to their app hook.
They have education and operations and if anybody would
like to attend one of their courses please.
You heard the Colonel during the podcast, come reach out, have
your training outreach folks reach out, get that connection
and they're looking for greater US involvement as they continue.
And their operations around the world, Sir, thank you very much.
And on behalf of Civil Affairs Association, it's been an
absolute honor to have you on the podcast.
Thank you. The You Know Me Journal is
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