1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,240 I wish for myself, for us collectively, that we could just 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,560 be honest and say we don't know. We don't get it. 3 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,000 Comprehending this text is hard and just having those 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,400 conversations because if we keep pretending, I think recent 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:23,480 surveys of evangelical churches shows that we, with all the 6 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:28,600 abundance of resources we have, we are not growing our biblical 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,119 literacy. We cannot love God if we do not 8 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:36,920 know Him. Hey, everyone, and welcome back 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,960 to the Grace Church Podcast. I'm your host, Whitney Manus, 10 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,680 and today I've got some sweet friends in the studio, Don Teets 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,360 and Mary Beth Jackson. Ladies, thank you for being 12 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:47,680 here. Welcome. 13 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,080 Thank you for having us. Absolutely. 14 00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:53,320 Before we kind of dive into our topic, would love for our 15 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,360 audience to get to know you a little bit better. 16 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,080 So would y'all just do a quick introduction of how you came to 17 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,040 Grace and maybe some of your serving roles and your family? 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,160 Anything like that? Yeah, My name is Dawn Teets and 19 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:11,440 my husband is Mark. We have two adult daughters. 20 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:16,800 Sarah is 24 and Jess is 27. Both happen to live in the 21 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:18,320 Upstate, and we're thankful for that. 22 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,760 We came to Grace in a kind of interesting sort of way. 23 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,440 We lived in Greenville before the Secret got out in the early 24 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,360 2000s. Then my husband's job took us to 25 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,520 Dallas for 10 years and we moved back in the memorable year of 26 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,200 2020. We had come back for summer 27 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,440 vacations just to stay in touch with really close friends in the 28 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:46,000 area and pretty much knew when we moved back that Grace Church 29 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,320 would be our home. And so we are at Grace 30 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,800 Pottersville, otherwise known as the Shire, and just learning 31 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,280 what life looks like is empty nesters and so thankful for our 32 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,360 community. Yeah, it's great. 33 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,120 I'm Mary Beth Jackson. My husband is Ross and we have 34 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,760 four children. They're still young, 1086 and 35 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,880 four. We've been at Grace for 13 years 36 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,160 now. We're at Harrison Bridge for 37 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:18,280 about 9, and then my job moved and so we we moved as well and 38 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,240 landed at Powdersville. Right now we're really involved 39 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,720 in RTS, reading through the scripture. 40 00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:28,040 Yeah, that is awesome. We are so glad to have y'all 41 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,720 here and you know, we just, we love having our members be on 42 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,160 the podcast and represent a little bit of just what God is 43 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,240 teaching us on a regular basis. And so the three of us kind of 44 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,080 sat down a little while ago and I really just asked what y'all 45 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,120 might want to talk about. And I was just so struck that 46 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,720 both of your hearts were just so passionate for the word. 47 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,760 And that was very evident right away. 48 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,440 And some of that was born out of, you know, being an RTS and 49 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,640 just witnessing kind of what God is doing at the Powders Hill 50 00:02:57,640 --> 00:02:59,480 campus. But a lot of that has to do with 51 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,600 your own personal experience. So what what God has done for 52 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,920 you, particularly just thinking around the idea of, you know, we 53 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:08,840 all, we all know that we should read the Bible. 54 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,520 We're all pretty clear that that's an important thing to do. 55 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,560 But it can be a hard thing and probably hard because it is so 56 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:17,560 important and we do want to do it well. 57 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,080 So as you guys were getting exposed to the word and learning 58 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,160 how to learn to read it for yourselves, what were some of 59 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,200 those difficulties or, you know, fears or maybe misconceptions 60 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:32,720 that you had as you were trying to do that and tried to read 61 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:39,360 scripture well? I think for me, I didn't want to 62 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,120 read my Bible because I didn't know what I was reading or I 63 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,360 didn't know where to start. Or should I start in Genesis? 64 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:53,640 Well, I've started in Genesis 125 Times Now, So what am I 65 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:58,360 supposed to be doing? I think that about four years 66 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:04,160 ago I was about to start region, going through region and just 67 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:09,480 really realized for myself, I have not read the whole Bible. 68 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,080 I mean, I've read what we listened to at church, what 69 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,240 they're telling me to read. I'll do a reading plan, I'll do 70 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,440 this and that. I'll do a Bible study, which all 71 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,440 of that is, is great. But I had not just sat down for 72 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:30,200 myself and read the Bible like a book and to knock away all of 73 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,080 the IT should look like this. I should have 30 minutes. 74 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:39,440 I should have perfect quiet. I mean, that's not going to 75 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,160 happen. It doesn't matter if I get up at 76 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,400 at 5:00, notorious a kid is going to come downstairs. 77 00:04:46,840 --> 00:04:48,400 With four of them, your odds are high. 78 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,360 Yes, or the dog is going to start doing whatever. 79 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,120 And so I like for things to be a certain way. 80 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:57,560 I like for me to be a certain way. 81 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,080 I like for my kids to be a certain way. 82 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,480 I like for my family to run a certain way. 83 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,560 So naturally I like my Bible reading to to be a certain way. 84 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:12,120 And so I just had to say, OK, I'm just going to to do a Bible 85 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,920 reading plan and just start there and see what happens. 86 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,600 And what happened is I read the Bible and it was not fancy or 87 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:26,400 frilly or anything magical. It was just reading as I read 88 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:28,280 any other book. Yeah. 89 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:33,120 Did you have like this big epiphany or, you know, you're 90 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,880 like, wow, the whole Bible suddenly makes sense, Sir? 91 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:38,400 She loved those genealogies. I know it. 92 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:39,440 Right. That's right. 93 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:44,040 Mapped it all out. No, I mean, there was of course 94 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,720 moments where I thought, wow, that's amazing. 95 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:52,720 Noticed things, was able to to talk about things, but no, there 96 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:57,520 was no Disney magical moment when I finished Revelation and 97 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,840 all of a sudden I was a superior Christian. 98 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,600 I already thought I was a superior Christian before I read 99 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:04,400 the Bible. So. 100 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,120 And then came regen you. Have to worry about that. 101 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,840 Yeah, no, it's not a magical recipe for enlightenment, but a 102 00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:17,800 lot of the power of it comes in the smaller daily moments and. 103 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,160 That's right. It's just little seeds. 104 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,160 Even if it what I read that day, I'm like, oh, I have no idea. 105 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:25,680 I don't know what that says about God. 106 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:30,080 I don't know what that says about the world besides that 107 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,400 there was all of these people listed, but the Lord's using 108 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:34,960 that. I mean, I can trust that the 109 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,520 Lord's going to use that in me, even if if it doesn't make sense 110 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,000 in the moment. And the Bible even talks about 111 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:46,440 like, writing his words on our hearts and on her minds so that 112 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,440 we can come back to it later when we need it. 113 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,440 It's not like every single day you need every single part of 114 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,280 the Bible, but something recalls later on in a way that's 115 00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:56,960 helpful, so that's cool. What about you, Don? 116 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,600 Yeah, I would say growing up, we, my parents became believers 117 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,920 when I was in elementary school and we went to a church that had 118 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,640 a really solid Christian education program, very clear on 119 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,960 the gospel as far as salvation. But what was lacking? 120 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,200 And we didn't have a great student ministry. 121 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,720 As I think about it, I was not clear through high school how to 122 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:28,160 do the daily sort of rhythms, spiritual disciplines until I 123 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,360 really went to college and got involved in a campus ministry 124 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,680 where I learned more about who the Holy Spirit was, that it 125 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,640 wasn't some like Casper the ghost person and that I could 126 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,960 ask him to help me understand Scripture. 127 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,280 Fast forward into my 20s and beginning a career. 128 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,120 I happened to be single for a lot of years, so I had the 129 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,640 luxury of time. I did not have the interruption 130 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:55,320 of children coming down. I could have like lengthy quote 131 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,280 UN quote quiet times and be involved in a Bible study at our 132 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,320 church and learn a lot. So I was grateful for those 133 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,080 single years and what I learned and just learning more about the 134 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,240 daily sort of walk. But yet I was still striving and 135 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,480 performing and feeling frustrated with myself living 136 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,040 under a big cloud of condemnation. 137 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:22,160 And it wasn't really until Mark and I went through Reengage when 138 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:23,760 we were out in Dallas at Watermark. 139 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,440 And then we moved here and there were some unfinished things in 140 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,840 my life that needed attention. And it's funny how those things 141 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,919 followed me from Dallas. And we got involved in Regen and 142 00:08:34,919 --> 00:08:37,240 my close group leader challenged me. 143 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:41,080 And and I would say that she is a dear friend now, but I did not 144 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,080 like her very much in that moment because she said, you 145 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,800 know, Don, I don't think that you believe Jesus loves you. 146 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,680 And I was ticked off about that because isn't that something 147 00:08:51,680 --> 00:08:54,080 that we all learned? If you went to church as a kid, 148 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,240 you learned how to sing Jesus loves me. 149 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,560 This I know. But when she said that and I got 150 00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:04,120 over my sort of pride being wounded and started asking God 151 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:09,400 to show me, how do I not believe that you, you know, do I believe 152 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,640 this lie that you don't love me? And something just became clear 153 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,760 as I kind of pulled the curtain back a little bit more and he 154 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:21,120 did some deeper soul work. And so I'm here for those who 155 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,320 might be a little bit further along in life to say that we 156 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,720 never can learn enough about Scripture. 157 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:36,200 And He is always wanting to dig deeper into areas of pride, 158 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:40,720 arrogance, unbelief, guilt, whatever lie we're believing or 159 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:45,040 set of lies, that there is always room for Him to transform 160 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,120 and renew our minds. And I'm so grateful that He has 161 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,080 taught me. I'm in a new season, you know, 162 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,160 where he is just reminding me and how important scripture is 163 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:59,000 and how needy I am for His word. So I I'm grateful for the 164 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,280 different seasons of my life and how He continues to show me more 165 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,920 of who He is and how I can delight in Him. 166 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,560 Yeah, that's beautiful. You mentioned this phrase 167 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,400 feeling a cloud of condemnation. What did that look like and 168 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,280 sound like for you? Yeah. 169 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,840 What were some of those lies? I mean, I was, I think just 170 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,640 through my personality and also my family of origin, I just was 171 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,040 a performer. I performed to get more approval 172 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,680 from my parents. I got into school and wanted to 173 00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:33,680 perform there, whether it was sports or music or academics and 174 00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:36,000 just always felt the need to perform. 175 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,560 And it was exhausting. And so there were, you know, 176 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:43,600 just times when I, I realized, and there was actually one of 177 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,360 our teaching pastors who came out on a, a rainy November 178 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,560 night. I almost didn't go to Regen that 179 00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:51,480 night. And I'm so glad that God 180 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,440 prompted my husband to encourage me to go because I heard 181 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,960 something that was like an epiphany for me. 182 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,880 And it sounds so simple now, but it was a game changer for me in 183 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:07,080 that moment of struggling with condemnation, struggling to feel 184 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,720 like I never measured up, struggling to believe that God 185 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,680 cared enough to accept me, therefore I had to perform, 186 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:17,160 right? And So what this teaching pastor 187 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:23,720 said was if God the Father tells us in Scripture and he does that 188 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:28,400 what Jesus did was enough for him, then why is it not enough 189 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,240 for me? And I don't know if I said that 190 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,480 exactly right, but it was pretty much to that effect. 191 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,520 And it just really was eye opening that it was a form of 192 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:43,280 pride for me not to trust that Christ had covered my 193 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,440 insufficiencies, my sin, my inconsistencies. 194 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:51,720 And that just gave me some really needed relief to no 195 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,800 longer feel like I had to strive and perform. 196 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,680 And you know, the journey continues. 197 00:11:56,680 --> 00:12:00,800 I continue to battle that, but that was a key pivotal moment 198 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:01,880 for me. Yeah. 199 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,480 And I do think it is so common. I mean, we can feel condemnation 200 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,560 over all sorts of things. Mary Beth, do you kind of have 201 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:13,360 any of those lies or kind of that condemnation for yourself 202 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,160 that you have to work through? I have. 203 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:20,960 More of a fake it till you make it mentality and an appearance 204 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,840 problem. I like to I already said I like 205 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,840 to look a certain way. I want my people to look a 206 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:31,000 certain way. I have an idea of, of how my 207 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,920 life should go. I mean, thankfully the Lord has 208 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,920 changed me a lot. So the lie that I believe is 209 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:44,640 that I can just do other things. I'm, I'm really involved. 210 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:50,080 I'm very active in the church. We go any time the doors are 211 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,320 open, we're there. I listen to Christian music, you 212 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,600 know, any of those type of things, then I'm OK. 213 00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:00,360 Yeah. And that you make a good point 214 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,480 of just our cultural context, you know, so being in the 215 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,920 Upstate of South Carolina and I mean being I guess is central to 216 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:12,240 the Bible Belt is you can get. Don, did you grow up around here 217 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,200 as well? No, I grew up in Minnesota, but 218 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:20,200 we had our own version of the Bible Belt and Minnesota and was 219 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,680 more Lutheran as far as denominational, but very 220 00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:26,560 ritualistic. And everybody went to church, 221 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,800 you know, it was just sort of assumed. 222 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:33,320 But to get beyond that. And again, like we went, we were 223 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,120 a blended family, went to a new community, got involved in a 224 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,160 great church. But you know, I'm so grateful 225 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:44,200 for that church, but for all the the different groups and 226 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:48,480 opportunities that I've had since then because I really 227 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,200 didn't know what to do day-to-day. 228 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,480 And then I was like, I want to please God. 229 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,320 So I guess I just have to do it myself. 230 00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:57,520 And oh, it feels better to control the situation. 231 00:13:57,880 --> 00:13:59,080 So it's. A lot easier. 232 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,240 Doing the checklist and certainly he'll be pleased with 233 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,240 me. And then I got to college. 234 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:09,000 Had a period of rebellion after college where the gravity of my 235 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:14,080 sin was made super apparent to me as a young adult and my need 236 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,040 for Christ became even more real. 237 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:23,040 So I'm just grateful that God uses even our rebellion, if we 238 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,240 have that in as part of our story, that he can use that to 239 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,600 teach us how much we need him and and the beauty of the 240 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,760 gospel. Yeah, absolutely. 241 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,400 And it is interesting. I mean, it's really not limited 242 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,680 to the Bible Belt and it can take on all kinds of forms, but 243 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,280 kind of this cultural Christianity of performance. 244 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,400 And I heard someone recently use the word image management. 245 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,280 And I like it 'cause it, it kind of implies that exhaustion of 246 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,160 something that you do have to manage constantly. 247 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,080 And it can, it can be overwhelming. 248 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,240 And Mary Beth, you kind of gave some examples of what that can 249 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,240 look like of, oh, I listen to Christian music. 250 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,880 And, you know, especially in the age of social media, we've got 251 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,480 like can post a nice picture of our Bible and our coffee cup. 252 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,440 And, you know, maybe your kids are screaming and the dog is 253 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,880 barking in the background. But nobody knows, 'cause, you 254 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,480 know, you're putting out this image of, you know, what your 255 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,880 life looks like. What other ways have you guys 256 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:25,920 seen that kind of creep into our church and your lives or even 257 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,840 just other people that you've talked to of this idea of image 258 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:34,280 management and trying to look like we're doing it instead of 259 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,800 actually doing it? I feel like we can move into a 260 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:43,200 slow drift or become complacent. There was a period in our 261 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,720 marriage where we were just kind of drifting and trying to 262 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:50,120 survive the busy high school years with our daughters, and we 263 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,400 let things slide. We were in a church before 264 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,400 Watermark where we didn't have accountability and community the 265 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,040 way we have it here at Grace. There wasn't transparency. 266 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:08,280 And so things just, you know, the sin, the complacency started 267 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,000 to accumulate. We cannot be a neutral as 268 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,600 believers. We're either moving forward and 269 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,800 being renewed or we're stagnating and living in our 270 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:22,160 sin. And so for us, I would say we 271 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:27,080 learned a big lesson as a couple and individually that we need to 272 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,040 have community, we need to be in the word, we need to communicate 273 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,520 as couple, we need to have a short accounts and confession 274 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,320 repentance. It's just like let's normalize 275 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,320 that rather than sort of maintain the image. 276 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,320 And we were very much doing that before we went to re engage and 277 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,520 then regen. Here, Yeah. 278 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:55,280 I think in my season that I'm in currently and have been in with 279 00:16:55,400 --> 00:17:01,720 young kids and young married and the image is that everything is 280 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:08,960 fine and that my kids are fine. We're doing enough. 281 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:15,520 We're we're doing, you know, XYZ to get them saved. 282 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:20,599 I mean, I'm, I am reading the Bible to them for an end goal 283 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:25,640 and that is not really what what I want them to see. 284 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,920 I think in another image that we try to uphold, especially as 285 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:36,280 women mothers, that we are doing everything right, that we are 286 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:43,040 living as a Christian woman. And sure that there is such a 287 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,240 thing as a Christian woman, but there's not just one mold that 288 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:51,040 we can follow. And the Bible does not lay that 289 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,800 out for us on what that is the Bible. 290 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,000 You know, we're going to love the Lord our God and we're going 291 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,840 to love each other and that we can do that in a multitude of 292 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,400 ways. I think there is a lot of shame 293 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:07,640 wrapped in Bible reading and studying the Word and knowing 294 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:12,200 theological terms. And I think there's a lot of 295 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,960 just embarrassment and wanting to hide from that because we 296 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,480 want to. Gosh, I've been I've been in 297 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,320 church my whole life. How embarrassing it is that I 298 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,160 don't know. I don't know, a doctrine of end 299 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,520 times. You know, how embarrassing it is 300 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:31,160 that I can't tell you what happened in the book of Amos. 301 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,880 You know, though, it's not embarrassing, right? 302 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,080 It's OK. And, and just to be OK with 303 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,360 saying, gosh, I don't know if I've ever read Ezekiel all the 304 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:43,440 way through. Just being honest with one 305 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,240 another. That's right, and that's OK. 306 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:50,280 And it is OK and it is freeing. And I think that for me, it has 307 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,600 actually freed me up to say, gosh, I have read the Bible 308 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,400 cover to cover, but I cannot if you try to tell me to find 309 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,480 limitations like the fastest, I'm not doing that. 310 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,440 I'm not winning a race in any of that. 311 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,160 It's like. Is that before Psalms or after 312 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,080 psalms? It's not a it's not for that's 313 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:15,200 OK and it is OK. What I think is has been not OK 314 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:21,960 for me is just pretending or or shying away from a conversation 315 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,240 because I don't, I don't know and I don't want to be involved 316 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:32,000 to uphold an image that's hard, that's exhausting. 317 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,000 There is freedom and just saying I don't know, but I want to 318 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,000 know. There's freedom and saying I've 319 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,560 never read the Bible all the way through. 320 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:46,200 I'd like to, but it's hard and I don't understand. 321 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,160 That has freed me up a lot and going through RTS. 322 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,160 We just said the Old Testament and. 323 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,240 Oh boy. Oh, boy, mate, oh, boy is right. 324 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,440 What? I mean, there were moments where 325 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,160 we were like, what did we just read? 326 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,440 And that's OK. It is OK not to have all the 327 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:07,760 right answers. Like you said, Don. 328 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:12,080 I mean, you are further along in life than than I am, and you're 329 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,120 still learning. Like we're not going to reach a 330 00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:19,360 pinnacle of just all right. We've arrived. 331 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,000 We have arrived. And that's OK. 332 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,080 That is OK. I mean, it doesn't feel OK for 333 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,560 me because I want to arrive. I want to be there. 334 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,160 I want people to look at me and say she knows. 335 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:36,280 So just pushing those lies behind and pushing that image 336 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,000 out of the way. I wish. 337 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:42,120 I wish for us, for myself, for us collectively that we could 338 00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:45,320 just be honest and say we don't know. 339 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,920 We don't get it. Like this is hard. 340 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,480 Like comprehending this text is hard and and it's kind of 341 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,240 boring. So, you know, or, or I don't 342 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,680 have a clue, and just having those conversations because if 343 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,320 we keep pretending, I think recent surveys of evangelical 344 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:07,280 churches shows that we, with all the abundance of resources we 345 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:12,360 have, we are not growing our biblical literacy. 346 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,840 We're not doing well with that. And as our campus pastor loves 347 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:22,800 to remind us is we cannot love God if we do not know Him. 348 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,400 And the Bible is first and foremost about Him. 349 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,160 And I'm not trying to be preachy here, but I just have to remind 350 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,560 myself that I need that daily bread. 351 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,600 I need to keep turning to Him. Now I feel everything that you 352 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,440 guys are talking about and I'm even like self identifying as 353 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,960 you're talking like conversations I've been in where 354 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,560 somebody is like, oh, and you know, like this part of the 355 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,200 Bible when this person says that. 356 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:49,800 And I'm just like, yeah, for sure. 357 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,440 Yep, I'm, I'm with you. And I'm. 358 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,640 And then later on I'm like, I've never read that before. 359 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,280 I have no idea. But yeah, it's, it's partially 360 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,840 growing up in the church and feeling like, well, if I've been 361 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,720 around for 20 years or so, like I should probably know more than 362 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:09,120 I do or the shame or the pride that gets wrapped up in it, 363 00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:12,200 whatever it is. Or even, I mean, just to your 364 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:16,200 point about honesty where you read scripture. 365 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,240 And I'm in Second Kings right now and I don't feel super 366 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:21,960 inspired every single day. And. 367 00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:23,120 That's. OK. 368 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,160 And right. But like there's something in me 369 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,840 that feels like, am I doing this wrong? 370 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,720 Like I don't feel like I'm getting anything out of it. 371 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,680 Like we just expect to have this spiritual experience. 372 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,760 And sometimes you do, and that's a beautiful thing, but just 373 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,280 because you didn't on a random Thursday doesn't mean that like 374 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,120 God isn't present or that his word isn't living inactive. 375 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,240 Like we just build up all these expectations that aren't always 376 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,840 helpful. So then we talked about just 377 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,920 this idea of being honest with one another, you know, and, and 378 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,480 being in community as we read Scripture, we ought to talk 379 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,360 about that a little bit more. Just the fruit that you've seen, 380 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,160 not just studying Scripture on your own, but doing it with a 381 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,120 group of people and coming and talking about it. 382 00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:13,600 Together. Well, it's struck me when we 383 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:24,240 first started doing RTS how excited I was to be able to hear 384 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,320 what other people read, what other people were thinking, 385 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:34,640 questions that people had, and to put down my embarrassment or 386 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,000 shame or whatever. That I don't want to ask a 387 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,440 question because I want you to think I already know and 388 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,440 actually ask questions and to talk. 389 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:50,160 And how that just brought an excitement and a longing to 390 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,800 read. Because I want to participate #1 391 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,680 I want to be a good student, number 2. 392 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,000 But it kind of grew into more than that, more than just, I'm 393 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,400 expected to do this and I need to do it well. 394 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,680 And we're going to start back in August and everybody, our group 395 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,720 is so excited. And I think that I realized 396 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:15,120 while we were doing it, the Bible is meant to be read in 397 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:20,560 community aloud with other believers, and not just in the 398 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,400 corner in my comfortable chair, that that is fine. 399 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,600 I am doing that as well. But to bring it and have 400 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:36,080 conversation and to talk about it and to not expect anything. 401 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,480 I'm just expecting that the Lord's with me. 402 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,840 I'm not expecting that I'm going to feel any kind of way. 403 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,760 I'm not expecting that Dawn's going to say something in our 404 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,680 RTS group that is just going to enlighten everything. 405 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,840 I'm not expecting anything just to come to the word with 406 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,920 excitement of just of, of learning, of seeing what's 407 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,080 there. Did you find, Mary Beth? 408 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,960 Like the little daily deposits we made, even when we, like you 409 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,760 said, Whitney, it's not these big emotional aha moments. 410 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,400 Sometimes it is. God's Spirit can do all kinds of 411 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,480 things as we read and study his word. 412 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:20,480 But for me, Old Testament RTS at Pottersville was kind of daily 413 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:26,160 compilations like daily deposits where he like there were some 414 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,000 major things that happened in our family toward the spring. 415 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,560 And if I had not had those daily deposits of Bible intake and 416 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:38,360 just the context of how God worked through a broken, messed 417 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:44,040 up, difficult group of people called the nation of Israel that 418 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,520 I I was able to connect the God of the Old Testament in new 419 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,440 fresh ways to my life today. But it was just those daily 420 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:58,960 deposits of studying how God handled those people and related 421 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,320 to them, had made them image bearers, but they had 422 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,720 misdirected longings. And then how he responded to all 423 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:11,000 that was just super helpful. But I can't say that there was 424 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,880 one particular week where it was like, I'm so glad I was here. 425 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,240 Like this was the best. And and the community part, too, 426 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,400 of just rolling up our sleeves and doing the work together and 427 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,680 holding each other accountable and encouraging one another. 428 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,640 If we had a tough week and didn't get through all the text 429 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,120 and that was OK. Yeah. 430 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,280 Now I think all of that is so helpful and I mean really just 431 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,240 doing anything like they tell you if you make a New Year's 432 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,520 resolution, like to tell somebody about it. 433 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,560 So then I mean kind of as we wrap up a little bit, can y'all 434 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,960 just give some some practical examples of Scripture that 435 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,280 you've been reading recently and just what God has been teaching 436 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,960 you as you have submitted yourself to his word. 437 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,760 And again, not with grand expectations, but like he is 438 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,440 working through that in real ways. 439 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:05,480 I am going back through Kings and Chronicles and interspersing 440 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:12,080 profits in with them to semi create some sort of timeline in 441 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,400 my brain. That's awesome. 442 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,520 Well, thanks, Don. You don't need to pump me up, 443 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,600 but it is showing me. Well, I just read it. 444 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,040 You would think that I would remember, right? 445 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,480 I'm like what? Who? 446 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,200 Who is? This all the kings names sound 447 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,000 the same so I can't keep them straight so I'm like I have to 448 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,000 go read those 10 more times. Yes. 449 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:40,680 And so just rereading something that I read fairly recently has 450 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,040 really just shown me how many times I'm going to probably, I 451 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,960 mean, I'm going to read it for the rest of my life and probably 452 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:52,240 have this similar experiences of wait, what, wait, what is this? 453 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:59,000 How how did this or just finding other little things. 454 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:05,480 I have a justice complex, but I don't really want God to to to 455 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:06,920 do this kind of justice. I don't. 456 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,240 It doesn't really make sense to me. 457 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,560 When we read it in RTS, I thought this is terrible, this 458 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,680 Bill's terrible, what are we doing? 459 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:20,560 We're killing everybody. But reading again, I have just 460 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:26,880 seen the goodness and the mercy of God as well through that. 461 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,600 So that's been really fun for me and encouraging as we're about 462 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,680 to start the New Testament, just just to see the progression of 463 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,680 the need for Jesus and to see the progression of my need for 464 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,280 Jesus everyday look at these Israelites and it's easy for me 465 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:48,400 to pass judgement on them and when really I I am that. 466 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,640 And so that's been that's been fun for me to go back through 467 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,360 and also eye opening on how much I don't remember. 468 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,880 Yeah. I would say that my recent 469 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,320 reading of Scripture dovetails really well with RTS. 470 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,640 We've had some women studies at Powdersville that have also been 471 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,720 instructive for me. But generally, even just going 472 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,600 to the Gospel Coalition conference recently and seeing 473 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:18,680 how the Psalms connect to the Savior, that we need Bible 474 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,040 intake not to become seminarians. 475 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,520 We can't fake it until we make it. 476 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,760 Proximity is not enough. Precooked Bible studies have 477 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,720 their place. But really, meeting God in the 478 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,400 pages of Scripture is so helpful. 479 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,960 Just in a nutshell, our family has been through a season of 480 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,080 lament. We've had four loved ones who 481 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,280 have died in the last eight months, included an unexpected 482 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,440 stillborn situation. And So what does lament look 483 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,880 like? I have responded to that based 484 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,480 on what God has been teaching me little bit by little bit, those 485 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:57,880 daily deposits, trusting on who He is, bringing questions to 486 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,480 him, but still being able to express gratitude for my 487 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,080 community, express gratitude for who He is and knowing that we 488 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:10,000 will be OK, that hard things do not necessarily mean bad things. 489 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:15,040 And just how to lament that. And like through an extension of 490 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,800 of women in our community who have been like we have been so 491 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,920 prayed for and we're so grateful for that. 492 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,680 There have been times when I didn't have words to pray. 493 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,960 And so something that I have learned along the way in my 494 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,000 journey is to simply pray Scripture back to God. 495 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,600 And that has been super helpful during this season of lament of 496 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,720 just praying Scripture. Just last night and this 497 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,840 morning, I was detecting a root of bitterness starting to 498 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,840 fester. And I, God's Spirit just 499 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,080 recalled for me a recent talk I'd heard about turning to him 500 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,720 as a good God even when things don't, circumstances don't seem 501 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,120 good. And the example of Naomi and her 502 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:01,760 bitterness and how through her experience, she came to see that 503 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,000 God was a good God. And so I just reminded myself 504 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,120 and confessed that I was leaning toward bitterness. 505 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:13,280 God just help me in my unbelief. Help me not to be like Naomi and 506 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,120 become bitter and just praying some of the passages from Ruth 507 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,800 or the Psalms back to him. That totally changed my 508 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,200 perspective. Didn't change my circumstances, 509 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:28,680 but it changed my perspective. And so the word is active and 510 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,440 living. The two edged sword. 511 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:37,840 I can attest to that. Like we always say, your campus 512 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,360 staff, leaders, and community are available to y'all and would 513 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,040 love to have a conversation. So if you've been listening to 514 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,040 this and you just need to be honest with someone that maybe 515 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,440 you don't know the Bible as well as you want to or you have 516 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,560 questions. Or maybe you just need to 517 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,640 confess that you've been managing the image of a good 518 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,440 Christian instead of seeking relationship with God. 519 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,560 Reading through scripture groups will kick off again this fall, 520 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,400 so maybe that's your next step to set up some accountability 521 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,200 and commit to reading through the Bible like Mary Beth did. 522 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,800 That would be a great way to spend the next year or so. 523 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,520 And if you haven't listened already, we have some great 524 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,920 episodes this year with Scott Mzingo on studying the Bible and 525 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,200 with Tim Wardle on how we got the Bible. 526 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,240 And if these episodes have left you with more questions, please 527 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,880 leave them in the comments or send us an e-mail. 528 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,600 We would love to equip you in any way that we can. 529 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,880 So Mary Beth Dawn, thank you ladies again for being here. 530 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,520 This has been a really sweet conversation. 531 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,120 Thank you so much. Thank you all for listening. 532 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,120 Be sure to follow and subscribe and we will see you next time on 533 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,280 the Grace Church Podcast.