1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,280 Have you ever been at a place in your life that you wondered if 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,560 God really cared about you? Have you ever asked that 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,080 question, either aloud or just in your mind? 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,120 God, do you really love me? I mean, that's one of the things 5 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:21,280 that they're struggling with. Welcome back to the Grace Church 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,480 Members Podcast. I'm your host, Scott Mazingo and 7 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:27,560 we are here with Bill White and Jim Taylor and we are previewing 8 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,400 our new teaching series that's coming up this week. 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:32,600 And hey guys, it's good to have you here. 10 00:00:32,759 --> 00:00:34,680 Hey, MO. Hey MO, Good to be here. 11 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,160 And so let's jump right in. Jim, first question is to you. 12 00:00:38,160 --> 00:00:40,560 We're gonna be studying the book of Malachi. 13 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:44,560 Why? You know, Malachi is one of 14 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,360 those books in the Bible that kind of gets neglected. 15 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,560 Nobody really thinks about it, Nobody really looks at it until 16 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,320 you're trying to find the New Testament and, you know, and 17 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:55,880 you're trying to land on Matthew. 18 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,560 And then you don't quite turn enough pages and you're like, 19 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,560 oh, what's this thing? And you flip a couple more till 20 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,840 you get to the, you know, to the New Testament. 21 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:03,840 So. You know that's true. 22 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,640 People probably know more about 400 years of silence than they 23 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,000 know about Malachi. That's funny. 24 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,800 I think so. So you know and I I like all 25 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:14,560 that. I like finding books that are 26 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,720 neglected or they're a little bit wooden or we don't quite 27 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,560 have the context to really read them and and immediately 28 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,800 understand what's happening. But it is a valuable book and 29 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,880 and really, I'll just be real honest about how it came about 30 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,280 is we spent the greater part of a year 2023 going through the 31 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,640 Gospel of John and we were in the teaching meeting one week 32 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:42,640 and Bill White says I need to do something practical. 33 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,240 We've got to teach something practical like the book of 34 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,760 James. And so that's how we got to 35 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,400 James. But I was fighting for an Old 36 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,040 Testament book because we like to go back and forth when we 37 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,600 can, Old Testament, New Testament. 38 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,680 And so Malachi is kind of like the James of the Old Testament. 39 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,760 It's short. It's direct, It's a little bit 40 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:09,160 harsh and there's there's some very practical lessons in 41 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,040 Malachi. And so that to answer your 42 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:13,360 question, that's how we got there. 43 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,920 It's real spiritual and intentional, yeah. 44 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,120 Yeah, let's talk a little bit more about the teaching team, 45 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,280 how that, what is that? We've heard Bill and Matt 46 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,480 mention teaching team. They've even mentioned Jim 47 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,080 Taylor name by mentioned you by name. 48 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,480 What, what does that look like? What's your role with that team? 49 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:36,000 Yeah, we we meet weekly and we've got a, we've got a group 50 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:40,840 of folks who they are just thinking about what we're 51 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,360 teaching. We're looking at the passages. 52 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,320 You know, we try to stay at least six months out when we 53 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,000 can. Now before COVID, I think we 54 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,920 were we were spending time each week talking to sermons, talking 55 00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:56,360 about sermons that were a month out. 56 00:02:56,920 --> 00:03:01,120 And then the world changed and we realized at any moment, you 57 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,240 know, the future is uncertain. So now we kind of work week to 58 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,680 week, but we spend a few minutes each week offering feedback to 59 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:12,800 the teachers and then we spend a few minutes talking about the 60 00:03:12,920 --> 00:03:14,600 the sermon that's coming up that week. 61 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,480 And the teacher will often throw out some questions or thoughts 62 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:23,040 to the group and and and we try to pull people in who can offer 63 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,800 different perspectives, different seasons of life, 64 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:30,280 different genders. And that's really it's, it's 65 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:35,360 yeah, we're. Really, in some ways we're just, 66 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,480 we're having fellowship around the text and if you're the 67 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,640 teacher that week, you may have a couple of ideas that you're 68 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,800 working through that you know are sticky and it gives you a 69 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,440 safe place to be able to do that and get a variety of 70 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,080 perspectives. We'll have some of our student 71 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:55,880 ministry teachers in there at times, and it's just it's a way, 72 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,440 but it's also a way for us to have some accountability. 73 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,240 And the good part from my point of view as someone who is 74 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,360 usually on the practitioner side of this is having the benefit of 75 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,680 smart people who really love the Scriptures, who are not 76 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,040 necessarily carrying the water on the weekly teaching and 77 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,480 dealing with some of the existential trauma that's 78 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,079 involved in doing that, who are just at a little bit of a 79 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:22,600 distance and who are thinking about the bigger picture. 80 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,720 And so like I would not have thought to do the book of 81 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,480 Malachi. It's one of Jim's real strengths 82 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,800 and contributions is, I mean Jim is a biblicist and he loves the 83 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,240 Bible. I have a lot of jokes about 84 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,160 that. I'm not going to say about how 85 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,240 much Jim loves the Bible and the way in which he reads the Bible 86 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,960 and thinks about the Bible and he's just he's bib line and so 87 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:50,720 he is and that pushes us to go to some places that we might not 88 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,920 go that I'm that are real helpful. 89 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,480 Yeah. And so you do. 90 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,320 Have a lot of jokes about that. I do have a lot of jokes about 91 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,080 that and I'm sorry and I've thought of some while I'm here, 92 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,640 that they're not appropriate for the members podcast, so. 93 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,280 So so as a teacher you're you're calling the best of these 94 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:10,720 different perspectives and you get to filter that and then you 95 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,920 get to push it through your own study and your own personality 96 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,880 for the for the weekend. I I I think it's another way 97 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,440 that we get to exercise plurality. 98 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,720 So it's an important way to get we get to exercise plurality. 99 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,760 So whenever Jim brings up Malachi, Bill, what do you, what 100 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:32,880 do you start thinking about? Well I start thinking about at 101 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,760 first. It's daunting every time we talk 102 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,520 about a new series, almost every time. 103 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,440 Now James was not daunting because I felt real strongly 104 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,160 about it and but I don't normally have that kind of 105 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,840 clarity and feeling and I just, I felt like James was a 106 00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:52,520 grounding and it builds on John and so but. 107 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,720 But but usually it's very daunting for me. 108 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,840 So when James, when when Jim brought up the idea of Malachi, 109 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,600 it, it felt very daunting to me. So what I had to do is I have to 110 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,320 go get in the historical context. 111 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,040 That's the way I work my way to it. 112 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,720 And so I have to get in the context of who are these people, 113 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,200 who is this person. And so it's difficult because we 114 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,960 don't have introduction to Malachi and who he has. 115 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,320 Some people even wonder, is that his name or is it just a title 116 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,120 Because it it could mean messenger of the Lord. 117 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:32,560 He's just he's a messenger he's the messenger and but but then 118 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,760 as I get it narrowed down into a historical context for me then 119 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:41,040 I'm I can identify with these people and I'm like here's this 120 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:47,920 messenger who's coming to a group of people after the the 121 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:53,280 return from exile and this half hearted restoration of temple 122 00:06:53,280 --> 00:06:57,560 worship and and this failed attempt in many ways to re 123 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,080 establish the Davidic line in the Kingdom. 124 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,560 So you have this thing that hadn't really worked out real 125 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:07,960 well and they're a, they're a a shadow of what they once were 126 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,840 and and they've kind of settled. And so they're not real involved 127 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,400 in idolatry, but they're marrying women who are involved 128 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,800 in idolatry. They're divorcing women. 129 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,720 They're not obeying a Kingdom ethic. 130 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,280 Their worship is half hearted and corrupt and they feel 131 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:31,480 entitled, you know, And so like once I got to that, I'm like, 132 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,200 Nah, I'm good. I mean I'm ready to go because 133 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,360 it's it's a it's a you have a you have a group of people who 134 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:42,360 are religious and so they profess faith and and a lot of 135 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,800 them are are sincere in that but but it's they're they're half 136 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,040 hearted in their execution of it and they feel entitled. 137 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,040 They feel like we're doing everything God wants us to do 138 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,640 and you don't really love us. You're not really. 139 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,520 I mean, you know, you're not really working on our behalf. 140 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,760 And then I'm like, OK, entitled people who are half heartedly 141 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,840 obeying like that starts getting convicting from me. 142 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,040 So let's drill down a little bit, just to not have any 143 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,320 assumptions here on the context. You've got folks coming back 144 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,200 from exile. How long ago? 145 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:14,880 It's It's been long enough right for. 146 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:16,840 Them. They're coming back about 500 147 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:18,480 years before Jesus. OK. 148 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,240 And if you go back to when we covered some of these books and 149 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,920 that Nehemiah and Ezra, we talked about some of this, is 150 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,080 that those people, the, the older men and women who 151 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,440 remembered the Solomonic Temple, when they see the new temple, 152 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,200 they're like pull out their beers here. 153 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,720 They're like what? You know, Look at what we've 154 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:43,280 become and how far we've fallen because of our idolatry, you 155 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,080 know? And they've been in the land 156 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:50,160 long enough to pick up the pieces and have a better effort 157 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,120 at worship, right? Yeah, yeah, they have. 158 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,000 No, they've been there. They've got a functioning 159 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,680 priesthood. People are making sacrifices on 160 00:08:57,680 --> 00:08:59,520 the regular, following the schedule. 161 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,000 But. There's no there's no king. 162 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,040 There's no king. There's, you know, Zerubbabel 163 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:10,320 was the hope that's failed and they're still under a governor. 164 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,760 They are. So the situation is still very 165 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,840 similar to what you're gonna find when Jesus comes. 166 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,440 It's different because they're not under Rome, but they have 167 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,200 foreign Pagan authority that is still over them. 168 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,560 But they have permission to kind of do their thing. 169 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,440 A bunch of the people. The sad part is that most of the 170 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:35,200 wealth, I mean, the Jewish folks who are really wealthy, they're 171 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:40,120 they're back in Persia, you know, they're in Babylon and 172 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,000 they're in Scots there and they're at the power center and 173 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,080 they're still practicing some form of Judy. 174 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,360 I mean, you still have that. You have Iranian Jews today who 175 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:53,280 are wealthy and they prospered there and they stayed there and 176 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,760 then people who've gone back. It's just not. 177 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,880 It's just tough. It's like developing world. 178 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,520 Well, and and you're probably, they were probably expecting, 179 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:04,600 you know, when they realized they were going to be in exile 180 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,200 70 years and God made a promise to bring them back. 181 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,480 And they come back and they start doing all this work to 182 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,840 rebuild the walls and rebuild the temple and rebuild the city. 183 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:19,320 They were probably expectant of, OK, God humbled us. 184 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:21,760 Yeah, now we're now we're going to be back on top. 185 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,920 Now Messiah's going to come, we're going to throw off the 186 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:27,560 nations, we're going to be at the top. 187 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,000 And it just did not turn out that way. 188 00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:33,000 So you mentioned temple, you mentioned Wall. 189 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,000 So Ezra Nehemiah. How does that fit? 190 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,480 Those two books fit in this time frame for Malachi. 191 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:43,760 Malachi's probably we think about 100 years after. 192 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,560 Could be you have a window. It could be a little sooner than 193 00:10:47,560 --> 00:10:50,720 that, but you're still, you know, right at somewhere right 194 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:57,560 around 500 years, maybe 400, and change before the birth of 195 00:10:57,560 --> 00:10:59,720 Christ. Somewhere in that arena. 196 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,880 It's hard to pin it down because you don't have any cues from the 197 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,240 book itself. But those books could give a 198 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,080 little bit of context. For that's right. 199 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:09,320 Similar issues. That's right. 200 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,320 It's it's the same stuff, you see the same kinds of issues 201 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,160 that are there. So what, what we're assuming is 202 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:19,240 this is a little bit after the events of Ezra and Nehemiah, 203 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,280 same cultural milieu. Nothing has really changed. 204 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,040 And really in some ways it's like you're they're kind of 205 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:30,720 hunkering down, waiting on the Messiah and and struggling to 206 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,920 really be faithful. They are, to some degree, 207 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,280 they're not giving up, but you know you, they're not 208 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,040 worshipping on the high places. They're not doing those. 209 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,600 It's like they've learned their lesson from that, but it's but 210 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,240 it's not what they were hoping for and what they were 211 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,480 expecting. And you see that in the themes 212 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,800 that come throughout the book. Jim, tell us a little bit about 213 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,920 some of the themes and how they relate to Malachi's purpose. 214 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:02,120 You know it's it's written and Bill mentioned this when we were 215 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,200 talking about it, that it's written as a conversation 216 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,120 between God and and his people. So God will will make a 217 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:13,040 statement or raise a question and then he'll say, but you say 218 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:17,200 this and it's it's you almost get this sense like you're 219 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:22,000 dealing with a household conflict or you know fight with 220 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,520 your spouse or or or one of your children. 221 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,800 I mean it's all you. You read it and you kind of come 222 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:31,440 away going and they seem so immature and they don't really 223 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,280 think of this as a relationship. You know it. 224 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,240 It's like being in a fight with your spouse and you're in a 225 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,720 disagreement. And your spouse rolls their eyes 226 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,400 and you say, why do you despise me? 227 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,280 And your spouse says, how do I despise you? 228 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,880 You're like, well, every time I make a statement, you roll your 229 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,920 eyes at me. You obviously are despising me. 230 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,960 Oh, you know, you tell your child, hey, I need you to go 231 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,600 clean your room and put everything away and you walk in 232 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,920 and everything's off the floor. And they shoved it all under the 233 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:01,920 bed. And you're like, no, I needed. 234 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:03,040 I told you to put everything away. 235 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,800 They're like I did clean my room, but you said. 236 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,680 Clean my room. And so I did. 237 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:14,200 Yeah, and and God's just try. I mean, you can just see God's 238 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:19,120 God's trying here and they just, they're being silly. 239 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,200 You know, if you like the first the the beginning of this 240 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,840 conversation. So if you just just read a 241 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,840 little bit of the text, this is the message that the Lord gave 242 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,080 to Israel through the prophet Malachi. 243 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,120 I have always loved you, says Yahweh. 244 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,920 But you retort, really, how have you always loved us? 245 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,000 And that just sets the tone for the whole thing. 246 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,360 And it it really is, it's just it's like a petulant kind of 247 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:57,680 petty, yes, you know, self justification and entitlement. 248 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,880 It is. So it's it's amazing that it's 249 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,040 in the Bible. It's 'cause it's so honest. 250 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,200 It's. And he chases a handful of 251 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:10,960 things down, you know, it's not going to be a long series, but 252 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,040 he's really, when when I look at it, I think there's around about 253 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,320 5 main things that he goes after that Malachi goes after. 254 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,720 One is corrupt leadership. You know, he's got an issue with 255 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:26,200 how the priests are are running things and it's interesting how 256 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,160 he uses the word messenger in the book. 257 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,640 I mean his name could could mean my messenger. 258 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,960 He says the priests are supposed to be messengers for the Lord, 259 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,080 but they're doing a bad job. And then we get to Chapter 3 and 260 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,400 he says, so I'm going to send my messenger, which we we're we're 261 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,760 pretty confident as a reference to John the Baptist who's going 262 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,040 to prepare the way. And he says, then the messenger 263 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,400 of the covenant is going to come to his temple. 264 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,600 Suddenly the one that you're desiring, he's gonna show up and 265 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,080 is not gonna be fun, 'cause he's gonna cleanse, he's gonna 266 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,360 purify. It's gonna, it's not gonna be as 267 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,000 joyful as you might be expecting. 268 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,480 Yeah. And just reminding folks, this 269 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,840 is the last book of the Old Testament before that messenger 270 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,800 John the Baptist comes on the scene. 271 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,560 And so that's that's some really nice parallelism there. 272 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:14,800 Yeah, he's concerned about corrupt leadership. 273 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,000 As Bill mentioned, their worship has become cold routine. 274 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,120 They're offering poor sacrifices. 275 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,400 They they just become religious and they're doing the minimum. 276 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,760 It's it's lip service. Yeah, I wrote down minimum 277 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:33,960 requirements versus true devotion to God. 278 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:35,720 And that's right. I think that's something that 279 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,960 resonates, resonates with everybody, yeah. 280 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,080 He's he's concerned about divorce. 281 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,160 You know you're you're trading in your wife that you're 282 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,000 supposed to be faithful to for the younger newer model and she 283 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,720 is not godly and it's introducing further corruption. 284 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,960 He he's concerned about some social justice issues around 285 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:02,680 paying workers their wages and you know handful of other of 286 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:09,360 other things and this neglected giving, you know they're not 287 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,200 bringing the ties, the ties like they should. 288 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:17,400 There's no sacrificial spirit left, so he's he's gonna take 289 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,120 all those down in a in a pretty direct way. 290 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:21,960 Awesome. OK, so. 291 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,680 But it's not about, let's say this, I don't the the tone of 292 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:31,040 the book is not about that. You just need to go do these 293 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,840 things right? Right, You know. 294 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,920 It reveals the heart. It reveals your lack of 295 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,600 devotion. You're not really thinking of 296 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,000 this like God thinks of this. Is that you're just you don't 297 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,920 bear my image, you don't really trust me, you don't really love 298 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:50,240 me, and it's plaintive. More than anything, it seems to 299 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,800 me, it's God is appealing to them. 300 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,640 Because that seems to be part of the problem is they're just 301 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,120 going through the motions. They're they're trying to obey 302 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,760 at the minimum level without having a real heart connection. 303 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,319 And so then the opposite of that is not to obey at the maximum 304 00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:09,880 level without having a heart connection. 305 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,680 Right. The the understanding is, what's 306 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,760 the character of God? What's he done for you? 307 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,839 How should I relate to him? And then therefore, this is how 308 00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:19,119 I love and serve him. Yeah. 309 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:22,319 So, Jim, as we think about entering this teaching series on 310 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:25,400 Malachi, how should our members best engage the book? 311 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,840 Well, you know, it's it's relevant for us because we we 312 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,440 have all the same issues and we we have the same questions. 313 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,480 I mean, have you ever been at a place in your life that you 314 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,280 wondered if God really cared about you? 315 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:39,400 You? Have you ever asked that 316 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,880 question, either aloud or just in your mind? 317 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,240 God, do you really love me? I mean that that's that's one of 318 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,720 the things that they're struggling with, because they 319 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,640 had this perception of what they thought God was doing and how 320 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:58,040 they thought things would go. They probably had a lack of 321 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:02,120 awareness around the depth of their sin and the consequences 322 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:05,680 that they're experiencing because of a long history of sin 323 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:10,200 and rebellion and arrogance. And so when their expectations 324 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,080 don't get met, then it they immediately question God's love. 325 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,960 I mean, that's a very familiar feeling to most of us. 326 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:24,640 You know, there this idea of lip service and doing the minimum 327 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,520 requirement. I mean, you ever been at a place 328 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,720 in your life where you feel like, well, I'm giving and I'm 329 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,160 serving and I'm attending church and I'm doing all this but you, 330 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,480 there's just a a lack of zeal. There's a lack of passion. 331 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,080 Spiritually you feel distant from God. 332 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,400 And I mean, have you ever thought to yourself, well, I'm 333 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,200 doing all these things, why don't I feel? 334 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,120 Yeah, why's my And why's my life not working out the way I 335 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:49,760 thought? Right. 336 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:55,120 You know, have you ever had things happen in your life that 337 00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:57,360 just make you question is, is God good? 338 00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:59,920 Is he sovereign? Does he see, Does he care? 339 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:04,720 I mean, all of those ideas and those feelings are feelings that 340 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,960 we struggle with. We're not any different from 341 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:11,640 them in that sense. And and the hope that you see in 342 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,120 this book is God does care. He does raise those questions 343 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,000 because he wants to get to the the heart of the matter, right? 344 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,960 Yeah. And it seems like being able to 345 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,240 withhold judgment on the folks that are the subject matter of 346 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,640 the book, Withhold judgment on Malachi, Withhold judgment on 347 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:34,120 God, and just just sit in the tension if we're real quick to 348 00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:35,600 try to take the tension out of things. 349 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:36,560 Right. Bill, I know you. 350 00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:39,480 I I think we do. You you like talking? 351 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,760 About that, I mean just to be able to to put. 352 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,560 That's why I think the historical context is so helpful 353 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:50,000 for me is these are real people who are trying to do the same 354 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:55,480 thing that we're trying to do with less than we have, and how 355 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,360 easy it is for us to judge one another from a distance. 356 00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:01,960 And that's why history is important for me, because it's a 357 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,400 form of fellowship. I'm trying to humble myself and 358 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,200 understand someone else's context. 359 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:13,240 And so if I can do that and then find a way to put myself in 360 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:18,280 this, then there's a hope for me to learn from these stories that 361 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,400 have come to us, and for me to see that this is. 362 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,480 I mean, we have a better image of all of this. 363 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,560 Yeah. I started to say don't say 364 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,640 better, but the writer to Hebrews says better. 365 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,720 We got a better image of all of this and Jesus. 366 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,720 And we we get to look back on all of that and see how 367 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,600 plaintive, just how's God appealing to us. 368 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,320 And I'm thinking about Jesus coming into Jerusalem and just 369 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:51,960 being heartbroken over all of that and how he longs to redeem 370 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,960 and what he wants to be. And he's like, but you won't 371 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,120 come to me. You know, even as you're 372 00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:01,360 acclaiming me, you don't really fully understand what you're 373 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:06,120 saying, just how alone and just seeing God in that way, how 374 00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:10,640 patient he is with us and seeing the fulfillment of that. 375 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,000 Oh, there has. To be a purifying first. 376 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:18,520 Yeah in the relationship and and Malachi's going to talk about 377 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,840 all of that. But if you're unwilling to be 378 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:28,080 exposed and you're unwilling to be purified, then you how can 379 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,520 you have a relationship and that and that's one of one of the 380 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:36,520 images that Malachi is going to use of Jesus coming is he's 381 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,040 going to be like like soap that's going to bleach out 382 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,600 clothes. You know, he's going to be like 383 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:47,160 a blazing fire that that purifies metal and burns away 384 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:52,680 the dross and and that's that's that's how it has to happen. 385 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:57,400 Because we're unholy people and we're dealing with a holy God. 386 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:02,520 And the amazing thing is, is God's willing to make us holy if 387 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:07,400 we are willing so that we can have a pure relationship and 388 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,320 have joy and have all the blessings that he does want to 389 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:12,320 grant us. Right. 390 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,720 But. But that's part of why the 391 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,200 conversation happens. The way that it does in the book 392 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,960 is because God's exposing them. And he's saying, like, look, 393 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,960 you're you're saying these things, but that's not true. 394 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,840 Let's talk about what the truth is and how do we move from this 395 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,920 place of entitlement and you know, to a place where we can 396 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,120 have a real authentic relationship and receive 397 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:36,480 blessings and and be one be united. 398 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,480 Good, good stuff. Sounds like it's going to be a 399 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,440 very interesting different book for a lot of folks. 400 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,640 Maybe first exposure. We really want to encourage 401 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,040 people to take advantage of the reading plan. 402 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,360 There'll be a link in the show notes. 403 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,440 Jim, you put those verses together for Us Weekly. 404 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,960 I know you put a lot of thought time prayer into that. 405 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,800 So we ask people to engage with that, read the book. 406 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,760 I think Bill, you've mentioned this from the stage. 407 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,920 Just read it through and then read it again. 408 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,400 You can read through the whole book and it's. 409 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,240 Just a few minutes and and one of the beautiful thing about 410 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,680 these small prophetic books of the Old Testament is you have 411 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,160 these images that become like a thorn that that that sticks in 412 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,520 your brain and and that once that image is lodged, that's 413 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,200 what good preaching does to you. Get that in your head and it 414 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,640 won't go away. And so that what you're reading 415 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:35,280 is good preaching. You're this is a sermon that was 416 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:43,440 spirit LED and inspired and it has endured for 2500 years now 417 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:48,360 and people have found it relevant and like if if I could 418 00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:50,360 I want to give one image that has stuck with me. 419 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:54,080 It's been one of the defining images of my life is at the 420 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,040 beginning of Chapter 4, Malachi speaks about the great and 421 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:02,000 terrible day of the Lord. And I I mean, I probably think 422 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:08,880 about this every day and he says I'll just read it. 423 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,040 He says the Lord of Heaven's army says the day of judgment is 424 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,560 coming, burning like a furnace. On that day, the arrogant and 425 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,440 the wicked will be burned up like straw. 426 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,120 They'll be consumed, roots and branches and all. 427 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,200 And so the idea is if you oppose God, so it gets go back to James 428 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,560 and how this is like James because God's opposed to the 429 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,040 proud, but he gives grace to the humble. 430 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,320 And so he's saying there's not going to be a remnant of 431 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,560 arrogance left behind. So if you think about what would 432 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:40,560 it be like to live in a world where when the that there's no 433 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,880 remnant of arrogance at all. Nothing hidden, nothing, 434 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,160 underground root branch, everything. 435 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:47,560 It's all gone. All the fruits gone. 436 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,040 There's no more arrogance. It's completely gone. 437 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,520 And he says that's that's what happens to arrogance. 438 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:58,240 But for you who fear my name, the sun of righteousness will 439 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,920 rise with healing in his wings. So he's talking about one event 440 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,640 that has the opposite effect depending on the posture that 441 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,800 you have. Now that's a powerful image. 442 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:16,400 And this is not a Israel plug, but it's our, you know what I 443 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:22,440 was in Israel and I and I got to watch the sun come up over Moab 444 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,840 and and when the disk first begins to break over the hills 445 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,760 of Moab and you're looking east, you see the wings of the dawn. 446 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,360 So it's it's like the sun has, it's like a flattened out disk 447 00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:39,760 with these wings that run and that's the image that it's 448 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,960 talking about there. And so I for me, I think about 449 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,440 that is that the posture that I take and it's it's been life 450 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,600 changing for me. I mean, I'm so thankful for 451 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,600 Malachi and just that one image that there is going to be a day 452 00:25:54,600 --> 00:26:03,720 that depending on my posture, is going to either consume me or 453 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,360 it's going to be the sun of righteousness rising with 454 00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:09,400 healing is going to solve all my problems. 455 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,840 And I don't have to be right about everything. 456 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,720 I just have to be humble and receive and greet that day and 457 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,120 long for that day. Now that's the kind of thing 458 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,840 that I would argue like that can change your life. 459 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,640 You can get a lot. I have gotten a lot out of that 460 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,360 in terms of how I think about greeting the day and that one 461 00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:37,680 day that this day is just one more day closer to that day and 462 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,560 that day is coming with certainty. 463 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,200 And how do I receive that? And then imagine living in a 464 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,760 world where all of the fruit of of wickedness and arrogance is 465 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,400 gone. I mean, it brings real hope to 466 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,920 you. And so I think that's the kind 467 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,880 of thing. But if you read that over and 468 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,520 over again, those images that you talked about, you know, 469 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,440 scrubbing, Jesus being like soap, that scrubs, just that 470 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,400 idea. There's so much hope that's in 471 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,040 that and and there's trembling as well, right? 472 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,720 You know, but we need both of those things, right? 473 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,160 And that's an antidote for who we are as the people. 474 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:17,920 It's good. It's a good word, Jim. 475 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,600 Any other thoughts as we close? No, I'm excited and grateful. 476 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,760 Fantastic. Well, behalf of our church, I 477 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,960 really appreciate the work teaching team does time, energy, 478 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,160 prayer, conversations around the table to keep us biblically 479 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,200 oriented. It's essential to who we are as 480 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,000 a church, growing our own devotion to God, our own 481 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,080 devotion to others. And so let's engage church, 482 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,280 let's engage this book well, and we'll see you again on the next 483 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:46,640 episode.