1 00:00:04,500 --> 00:00:07,500 Welcome back or to the grace church members podcast, I'm your 2 00:00:07,500 --> 00:00:10,800 host, Chris rivers and in this episode, I'm joined by Scott 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,100 Mozingo and Bill white to discuss. 4 00:00:13,100 --> 00:00:15,400 Why parenting is a discipleship issue. 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,400 If you're a first-time listener, we're excited that you've joined 6 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:20,600 us. The goal of this resource is to 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,800 address discipleship issues in the life of Grace Church and 8 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:25,900 discuss. How to be more fully devoted to 9 00:00:25,900 --> 00:00:28,200 God. If you're a parent, then you 10 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,300 know that parenting is no. No Easy Task. 11 00:00:31,300 --> 00:00:34,700 The formative role of training. My kids is not something that 12 00:00:34,700 --> 00:00:37,500 comes naturally to me. And quite frankly is one of the 13 00:00:37,508 --> 00:00:39,900 most challenging aspects of my role. 14 00:00:39,900 --> 00:00:43,500 As a follower of Christ. This responsibility of parenting 15 00:00:43,500 --> 00:00:46,900 should lead me to be intentional about the work that needs to be 16 00:00:46,900 --> 00:00:49,300 done. And it should motivate me as I 17 00:00:49,300 --> 00:00:52,200 look for opportunities to work with Rachel and teach our 18 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,900 children, what it looks like to follow Jesus. 19 00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:58,200 In this culture, I'm very grateful for this interview 20 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,500 because it gave me some And ideas for what it looks like to 21 00:01:02,500 --> 00:01:05,200 be the primary discipler of my kids. 22 00:01:05,700 --> 00:01:09,000 I hope it is a resource. You can use and share to help 23 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,000 grow your Devotion to God and others in this area. 24 00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:16,000 Rachel and I have a lot of work to do and we are joining you in 25 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,800 this conversation and pray that it will be as challenging and 26 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:21,700 encouraging to you as it was for us. 27 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,100 Be sure to check out our podcast page located in the show. 28 00:01:25,100 --> 00:01:28,900 Notes on this page, you can access past episodes a summary 29 00:01:28,900 --> 00:01:31,300 of this episode. With Bill and additional 30 00:01:31,300 --> 00:01:34,100 resources to help you move toward discipleship. 31 00:01:34,300 --> 00:01:37,700 Okay, let's jump into our episode on why parenting is a 32 00:01:37,708 --> 00:01:41,700 discipleship issue. So Bill we often say that 33 00:01:41,700 --> 00:01:44,800 parents should be the primary disciple makers of their kids. 34 00:01:45,100 --> 00:01:50,200 What does that even mean? Yeah, it's funny how we use 35 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,400 language and then you start thinking about what it really 36 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,200 means and you're like, what does that really mean? 37 00:01:55,900 --> 00:01:59,500 I mean, I would put this in the category that you are, the 38 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,300 Disciple maker. You're just either a good one or 39 00:02:02,300 --> 00:02:05,000 a bad one. You're training. 40 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,900 Your kids. And the consequence of your 41 00:02:08,900 --> 00:02:12,000 training, it isn't determine itive. 42 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:17,000 You're not sovereign, you're not God, but it's a responsibility 43 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,200 that is given to you by God and it's a peculiar one. 44 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,800 No one else has the opportunity that you have, and you're 45 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,700 training them all the time. And if you abdicate that 46 00:02:30,700 --> 00:02:35,300 responsibility, then there's going to be a huge gap and the 47 00:02:35,300 --> 00:02:37,800 content and the manner in which Which you do it is going to be 48 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,600 really formative in your kids lives your children's lives. 49 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:47,200 And so trying to be a just be aware of that and to take that 50 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,100 responsibility. Seriously to realize that in a 51 00:02:51,100 --> 00:02:53,800 very real sense, I'm going to stand before God, and I'm going 52 00:02:53,800 --> 00:03:00,100 to give an account for the manner in which I did that being 53 00:03:00,100 --> 00:03:03,200 conscious of that responsibility should cause us to be 54 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,900 intentional. And that's the That would just 55 00:03:07,900 --> 00:03:10,600 say as a pastor, I want people to know, I don't want people to 56 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,800 be afraid that they're going to make a mistake. 57 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,400 If you have a really conscientious person who has a 58 00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:22,200 certain type of Personality than that that can produce some fear 59 00:03:22,300 --> 00:03:25,900 and be overly scrupulous where you feel like I have to do 60 00:03:25,900 --> 00:03:29,200 everything right. Rachel and I were infected with 61 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,100 some of that we were both first born's. 62 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,400 We both are responsible people, we tend Has the owner more 63 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,800 responsible than we are. And so we made some mistakes 64 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:48,000 around that, but that seems to be more of an exception. 65 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,900 Is that, it seems like we have a lot of folks who are very 66 00:03:50,900 --> 00:03:53,700 confident and not very intentional sometimes and they 67 00:03:53,700 --> 00:03:58,300 sing God, this all going to work out and you can miss 68 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,500 opportunities. And we don't want people to miss 69 00:04:01,500 --> 00:04:04,700 those opportunities that we don't want the Next Generation 70 00:04:04,700 --> 00:04:08,800 to not be intentionally train. And what it looks like to follow 71 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,000 Jesus in this culture. And so that's what we want our 72 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,399 parents to be engaged in that. And, and to realize what a 73 00:04:16,399 --> 00:04:20,600 privilege and opportunity it is. And to be intentional about the 74 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,500 work that needs to be done. Yeah. 75 00:04:22,500 --> 00:04:25,000 Can you reflect on that a little bit more? 76 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,100 How do you think you've seen parenting Norms change? 77 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,900 Just as you've been pastoring? And maybe from this, I've got to 78 00:04:33,900 --> 00:04:40,400 do it a certain way to little. Or Freedom that can result right 79 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,600 now in. I don't know if you use the 80 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,300 word, he didn't use the word laziness or just kind of a 81 00:04:46,300 --> 00:04:48,600 hands-off parenting. Sure, what's going on? 82 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,300 What's been going on for the last 15 years? 83 00:04:51,300 --> 00:04:58,200 Sure, it will when I got engaged and student Ministry that was 37 84 00:04:59,300 --> 00:05:01,600 or 38 years ago. So it's been a while. 85 00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:06,700 And I don't know that. I mean, culturally things have 86 00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:14,500 changed, the fundamental challenge of being desirous of 87 00:05:14,500 --> 00:05:16,900 being the primary disciple of my children. 88 00:05:16,900 --> 00:05:19,400 I don't think that's changed because that was one of the 89 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,400 first things that I noticed in student Ministry. 90 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,200 All those years ago, when I was just finished, I just finished 91 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:25,800 high school. I was a college student. 92 00:05:26,300 --> 00:05:29,100 I was getting paid in the Summers to do student Ministry 93 00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:32,100 in my home church. It was breathtaking to me the 94 00:05:32,100 --> 00:05:34,400 conversation. Since that I was having with 95 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,600 people who were three and four years younger than me at the 96 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,300 time that their dad's had never had with them. 97 00:05:40,900 --> 00:05:43,400 And I wonder if some of that might even be a little better 98 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,300 now, right? But the game has changed, so 99 00:05:46,300 --> 00:05:51,700 dramatically with the intrusiveness of the culture, so 100 00:05:51,700 --> 00:05:54,200 the World, the Flesh and the devil, same enemies. 101 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,300 Always right. But we thought things were 102 00:05:57,300 --> 00:06:00,400 challenging when in my early years of student Ministry, which 103 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,400 I did full-time for over 10 years. 104 00:06:03,500 --> 00:06:09,200 So all through my 20s until we went to Philadelphia and and I 105 00:06:09,208 --> 00:06:12,200 was the lead pastor Of a tiny little church. 106 00:06:12,900 --> 00:06:16,400 I was doing student Ministry every day and we thought it was 107 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:21,900 challenging with, you know, music and movies and television. 108 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:23,800 Right. You know, like I remember when 109 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,400 the movie Titanic came out and all of our kids were going to 110 00:06:27,408 --> 00:06:30,000 see that movie and I was like, this is today. 111 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,100 Sign of the Apocalypse meant this idolatry of romantic love, 112 00:06:34,300 --> 00:06:36,400 right? And this myth is being presented 113 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,400 in such a powerful way and it was so compelling. 114 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,400 I Thought, you know, there's no we're not recovering from this. 115 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:49,000 And now, you know, Taylor Swift is discipling for kids, right? 116 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:53,800 And and parents, right, right? Because now, parents and kids 117 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:58,500 are consuming the same media and with the invasiveness of social 118 00:06:58,500 --> 00:07:02,400 media and the web and the reach of their friend group and how 119 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,200 their friends unbelieving, friends are being discipled, the 120 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,500 pervasiveness of that I do. It's that is the Big Challenge. 121 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,700 Challenge and what that requires, as a parent, the level 122 00:07:13,700 --> 00:07:17,200 of Engagement, you have to have how you have to keep up. 123 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,500 I've seen a big difference even with my children, who have 124 00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:24,800 served who serve in student Ministry, the difference between 125 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,800 what it was like for them to what it is today. 126 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:35,000 And my youngest son is turning 25 and Is this different now 127 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:41,700 because of just the pervasiveness of media, And 128 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:47,600 those voices are very compelling and and that puts a burden on 129 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:53,100 the church, but it puts a burden on parents because you can't win 130 00:07:53,100 --> 00:07:56,300 once a week. Like, it's a soaker hose like is 131 00:07:56,300 --> 00:08:01,400 irrigation and if you're not engaged in the soaker hose and 132 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,600 you haven't created in The rhythms of your life, the 133 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,800 opportunity to engage, and if you don't have credibility to 134 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,000 engage in it, you don't have thoughts to share and you hadn't 135 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,700 created those Pathways. Then that's the thing. 136 00:08:17,700 --> 00:08:20,300 That's different. Having a good youth pastor, 137 00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:24,900 who's doing a good many sermon and having one compelling event 138 00:08:24,900 --> 00:08:31,400 a week that in go get it done. Like it's just a different, you 139 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,799 know, you're at a nuclear war with a knife, you know, it's not 140 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:38,400 a gunfight with a knife. I mean, it's a, it's a, just a 141 00:08:38,408 --> 00:08:40,400 different, it's a different thing. 142 00:08:41,700 --> 00:08:45,200 It seems like parents are desperate to connect with their 143 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:50,300 kids so they're choosing friendship over discipleship. 144 00:08:50,300 --> 00:08:55,500 Yeah, I mean that may be more pervasive, you know, our student 145 00:08:55,500 --> 00:08:58,900 Ministry guys would know better. I don't know if that's different 146 00:08:58,900 --> 00:09:00,800 than it was. I mean, I remember the parents 147 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,100 who threw parties and bought beer for the kids who were in 148 00:09:04,100 --> 00:09:06,500 high school, so that's always been around. 149 00:09:06,500 --> 00:09:08,200 I guess I shouldn't laugh when I say that. 150 00:09:08,500 --> 00:09:12,000 But Maybe this is the bigger issue. 151 00:09:12,300 --> 00:09:17,700 Is that it seems that all authority is rooted in personal 152 00:09:17,700 --> 00:09:19,800 credibility. With people now said, like I 153 00:09:19,808 --> 00:09:22,400 don't have the right to speak into anything in your life that 154 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,300 you don't give me because you trust me and relationship with 155 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:30,600 me which means that if I want to have a voice with you, then you 156 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,300 have to grant that voice to me. Right? 157 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,800 And so the way you get that voice, granted is you have to 158 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,000 know that I'm with you that I affirm you. 159 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,200 And that is definitely different could build up a relational 160 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,100 Capital around some of these fun cultural things. 161 00:09:48,100 --> 00:09:50,700 Yeah, that's right. Now that we're the same out we 162 00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:54,200 both like the same things so then I hope that I could speak 163 00:09:54,500 --> 00:09:58,400 into your life but what do I lose along the Journey of 164 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,900 becoming equals right? That's exactly right well and 165 00:10:01,900 --> 00:10:04,700 what I'm doing is I'm creating an environment of entitlement 166 00:10:04,700 --> 00:10:09,000 where I'm a, making a younger person like, as we're talking. 167 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,200 I'm thinking about what I think. All this, okay. 168 00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:15,100 Is that the sense of entitlement that you're in a position to 169 00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:20,300 evaluate me? And I'm giving you that ability, 170 00:10:20,300 --> 00:10:24,200 I'm trying to win with you on your terms and not to say that 171 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,800 there isn't a place for building credibility with people and 172 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,800 crossing boundaries that way. But if my whole life and I do 173 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,500 see this, if I feel like I have to answer your question before 174 00:10:35,500 --> 00:10:37,600 we can move on to addressing an issue. 175 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,800 I think that's a real problem, right? 176 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,600 Like if we think that we need to hear our three-year-olds voice 177 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,800 on something right. You know, I just that is a real. 178 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:47,800 You're going to have a hard time. 179 00:10:47,900 --> 00:10:50,400 Forget anything done, right? All you're going to ever do is 180 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:55,100 be sitting around wrangling and talking about ideas with someone 181 00:10:55,100 --> 00:10:57,100 who's not qualified to make that decision. 182 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,700 If we're going to wait a 15 year-old boy or girl's opinion 183 00:11:01,700 --> 00:11:06,300 about something equally with their parents and say that we 184 00:11:06,300 --> 00:11:08,800 have to relate to them on their terms. 185 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,600 About all of that rather than just say hey I just need you to 186 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,800 trust me on this and I have a backlog of trust that I've 187 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,900 built. And now you're gonna have to 188 00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:23,000 come under. I think the loss of that view of 189 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,500 authority, And I think we have that in our culture at large but 190 00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:31,700 but where we see it real clearly is with when you get into the 191 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:36,500 teen years and it just breeds arrogance if you go back to the 192 00:11:36,500 --> 00:11:39,600 language that we use to use and we still use to a large extent 193 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,900 of establishing authority of training and this is a real 194 00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:44,300 conversation. I was just having this 195 00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:47,000 conversation with one of my kids because my kids have kids, no, 196 00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:49,800 not all of them but they're that's the season of life where 197 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,100 they are and I was just encouraging, one of my 198 00:11:53,100 --> 00:11:56,300 daughters-in-law who's overwhelmed with this idea right 199 00:11:56,300 --> 00:12:00,200 now and I was like hey you are training that child to be happy 200 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,900 doing something that they don't want to do, which is one of the 201 00:12:02,908 --> 00:12:06,900 greatest gifts you can give them Because they have to agree with 202 00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:09,600 everything. And feel heard. 203 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,000 And every moment there are a lot of opportunities come off the 204 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,400 table because they're just not going to get included much, but 205 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,800 if they going to learn how to do something, they don't agree with 206 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,100 or feel like is the best option happily, then they're going to 207 00:12:22,108 --> 00:12:23,700 be a lot. Happier person takes 208 00:12:23,700 --> 00:12:26,000 spirituality out of it, you know? 209 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,100 But if I can just be a good team player and just do what I'm told 210 00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:32,700 to do and make the environment better, and not having an 211 00:12:32,708 --> 00:12:36,800 existential crisis every time. Some don't go my way then I'm 212 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,500 just I'm going to be able to move on and live. 213 00:12:38,700 --> 00:12:40,600 Her life. That's an important. 214 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,200 That's a skill that has to be trained. 215 00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:46,800 And so I don't know how you train that skill if you don't 216 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:51,500 have parents on a daily basis over who are making decisions 217 00:12:51,500 --> 00:12:55,000 that younger people are not consulted on and they just have 218 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,600 to get with Bill question for you. 219 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,300 Just, as you are not unpacking some of this stuff, this idea of 220 00:13:01,300 --> 00:13:03,900 building credibility establishing Authority, can you 221 00:13:03,900 --> 00:13:07,400 maybe like, go back years in your parenting? 222 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,500 Maybe a help me. Help us see where you maybe 223 00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:15,000 failed in some of that and then maybe where you won, you and 224 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,800 Rachel one share because it'd be nice to kind of see what you're 225 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:23,700 talking about here. Yeah, so I mean if I were to go 226 00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:29,100 back let's talk. First of all about Where we won. 227 00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:36,600 So what I don't regret is being engaged on a daily basis and 228 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:38,200 being there and being a part of it. 229 00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:44,600 I don't regret teaching my children that they have to obey 230 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:49,400 when they disagree and stopping everything, like I don't regret 231 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,800 taking my children out of a restaurant to the car. 232 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,900 Correcting them and private. Bringing them back in, making 233 00:13:56,900 --> 00:14:00,000 them apologize to people with the table for being a disruption 234 00:14:00,300 --> 00:14:02,900 and then eating their mashed potatoes. 235 00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:06,200 Yeah, whatever. I don't regret that stuff for 236 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,700 not looking the other way and make any excuse for them being 237 00:14:08,700 --> 00:14:12,100 tired, that's training. I'm thankful that we did all of 238 00:14:12,100 --> 00:14:14,600 that. I think my children are thankful 239 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,700 that we did all of that because I see that as training them for 240 00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:24,000 the real world. So the way in which we did, I 241 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:29,100 have regrets about doing that to make my life better at times, 242 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,300 you know, and to make my life simpler. 243 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:38,300 I have regrets around canonizing, my personality 244 00:14:38,300 --> 00:14:40,300 making my personality. The standard. 245 00:14:40,300 --> 00:14:43,700 I didn't know, I was making my personality to standard but 246 00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:48,700 where I was making something about God, that really was about 247 00:14:48,700 --> 00:14:53,700 me. So, I need, I feel a need for a 248 00:14:53,700 --> 00:14:58,500 pretty high degree of order in my home like cleanliness things, 249 00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:02,000 being where they go, not having a bunch of junk and clutter, 250 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,800 which is just a personality and its really a weakness for me. 251 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,100 It's when I'm dealing with the chaos of the world. 252 00:15:09,100 --> 00:15:13,000 When I come home, I like for things to be pre-ordered, you 253 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,800 put for teenage boys. We have four sons and five 254 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,400 years. So there were a lot of times 255 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:24,400 that I I realized my stress and put that on them and I made that 256 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,900 a character issue for them. And one of my son's is light me 257 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,800 and three of my sons are not like me in that way. 258 00:15:33,300 --> 00:15:37,400 And so, I burned credibility on that now that they've been 259 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,400 gracious to me so far. Now, I may be paying for therapy 260 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,500 in their 30s, but we've talked about all those kinds of things, 261 00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:47,000 but that was clearly a place where I was imposing my weakness 262 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,700 and I was spiritualizing it and putting it on. 263 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,300 Them. And so, I regret that now, 264 00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:56,300 Rachel and I had conflict running, she tempered me on 265 00:15:56,300 --> 00:15:59,700 those things because my need for, that's way higher than her 266 00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:03,000 need for that as well. But when you say spiritual eyes, 267 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,000 would you say that you made it about obeying God by obeying 268 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:11,200 Authority typing probably? And just I think more what I did 269 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:17,200 is I put more energy into it than it deserved. you know, I 270 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,700 made it a bigger deal than it was You know, I didn't, I just 271 00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:25,500 didn't dumb stuff. I like I came home from work and 272 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,000 they kick their shoes off and they were in the front door and 273 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,800 I took their shoes and threw him off the porch into the front 274 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,300 yard. So then in know where their 275 00:16:33,300 --> 00:16:37,200 shoes were, I was like, well, I know where they were before. 276 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,600 I threw him off the front porch because we talked about this 277 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,900 five times, I mean, I did stuff like that, you know? 278 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:49,100 But I don't recommend that, but I can tell you this, that when 279 00:16:49,100 --> 00:16:50,700 they when they come Find their shoes. 280 00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:53,600 They started putting them in a different spot where I wouldn't 281 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,500 throw him into the bushes. So we're just looking in the 282 00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:58,200 bushes. Yeah, no, just go look for him 283 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,500 in the bushes. I mean, so I did, I mean, I 284 00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:04,900 could give a number of examples where I most of mine was by 285 00:17:04,900 --> 00:17:07,300 overreacting and I mean, a lot of that stuff. 286 00:17:07,300 --> 00:17:09,800 I apologize for. Yeah, you know. 287 00:17:09,900 --> 00:17:15,300 So because I didn't absolute eyes it and I think that's why 288 00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:17,400 it worked out is not kids were like yeah I mean that's just 289 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:22,200 crazy around all this stuff and and as they got older I realized 290 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,700 I have less margin on that kind of stuff, man. 291 00:17:24,700 --> 00:17:28,900 I got a, I got a deal with me and so that was a part of that 292 00:17:28,900 --> 00:17:31,400 became a part of parenting. As they got older, I started 293 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,800 seeing how my sin and my weakness was impacting them, 294 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,300 which is very different for all their personalities. 295 00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:42,100 So then I had to go to and say hey man I'm sorry, I'm making 296 00:17:42,100 --> 00:17:43,700 your life harder than it should be. 297 00:17:43,700 --> 00:17:49,200 And I'm sorry we had to work through this and we got to make 298 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:53,400 allowance for one another on this and have realistic 299 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,300 expectations of one. Another yeah, I think it's 300 00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:59,700 interesting to talk about parents as primary disciple 301 00:17:59,700 --> 00:18:04,000 makers of their kids, but also guide using parenting as a 302 00:18:04,008 --> 00:18:06,100 primary disciple maker of adults. 303 00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:08,900 Yeah, no doubt. And I think that's hard when 304 00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:11,400 you're You're in the early stages the establishing 305 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,200 Authority because you're all your energy a lot of wrote down 306 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:15,500 the word energy, so much of those. 307 00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:18,100 It's about how do you Steward your energy? 308 00:18:19,300 --> 00:18:24,400 And how do you create margin? Not make things that shouldn't 309 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,700 be made big deals. Big deals how to right-size 310 00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:32,700 effort for outcome and then spend time trying to see what 311 00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:36,600 God's doing in all that. And then, you know, the thing I 312 00:18:36,608 --> 00:18:41,300 heard you say earlier, if we're trying to spend all this energy 313 00:18:41,300 --> 00:18:45,700 to have relational credibility and capital with our kids to get 314 00:18:45,700 --> 00:18:48,900 on this even playing field so we can have authority. 315 00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:52,300 We just don't have energy to be an expert on the authority 316 00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:56,600 matters because we're spending our time, trying to know the 317 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,300 latest Tick, Tock Trends, and be friends with our kids, right? 318 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,000 So how think about energy, energy and different? 319 00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:08,200 Stages of parenting. What are some principles for? 320 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,800 How do you just Steward? Not just masculine energy. 321 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,100 But how do we steer with the energy of parenting? 322 00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:19,300 Well, I mean, the first thing is, you have to understand is 323 00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:27,000 going to take a lot more time early on, so I think you have to 324 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,500 spend the time. What I see people trying to do 325 00:19:29,500 --> 00:19:32,800 is get super personally engaged once their kids are teenagers 326 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:34,700 because they're afraid, right? Right? 327 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,600 And then not being as engaged structurally, when their kids 328 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,000 are younger making excuses for their children because they're 329 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,700 tired or they're hungry or whatever, when they're younger, 330 00:19:44,700 --> 00:19:46,600 right? You know, they didn't get a nap, 331 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,400 they do whatever. And then what's their kids are 332 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,100 teenagers. They're not making any excuses 333 00:19:51,100 --> 00:19:53,000 or trying to clamp down and control everything. 334 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,500 So we got it backward, we got to invert that, right? 335 00:19:55,500 --> 00:19:58,100 And so now it takes a ton of energy. 336 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,900 When your kids are teenagers. But if you spend the time with 337 00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:06,900 the positive training, you know, we think of discipline. 338 00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:09,400 A lot of times we think of corrective discipline and I 339 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,300 would just say, if all you're ever doing is correcting, then 340 00:20:12,300 --> 00:20:14,900 you're probably not doing the kind of formation you need to 341 00:20:14,900 --> 00:20:15,800 do. That's one of the things that 342 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,200 Rachel and I realize is that when we got to a new stage with 343 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,200 our kids and we were realizing man, he's just not getting it 344 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,100 because we had all boys. He's just not getting it. 345 00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:27,900 And I feel like all we're doing is correct in him all the time 346 00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:30,000 and we're having a chaste Sighs and we have to do all this. 347 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,500 We'd have to back up and say, where's the issue, in our 348 00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:36,600 formation, where are we behind? What do we have to do to train 349 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,800 him positively? And is this an issue of we're 350 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,800 not doing our job? Or is this an issue of he's 351 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,100 being stubborn and rebellious? Is this a weakness issue that he 352 00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:47,700 has a deficit in his personality? 353 00:20:47,700 --> 00:20:51,500 Went to accommodate him but you can see by doing that, that's 354 00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:54,100 that takes a bunch of time in conversation, right? 355 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,100 And so, that's where I think. If you're going to really 356 00:20:57,100 --> 00:21:00,100 disciple your kids, you had to be Attention on that level. 357 00:21:00,100 --> 00:21:01,800 You got to have those categories to be thinking. 358 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,300 It's this sin. As it weakness is this my 359 00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:05,900 Center? Is this my weakness or my 360 00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:07,300 expectations? Is? 361 00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:09,700 This about me and I need a high level of control or is this 362 00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:13,100 about me? And I'm overreacting to my my 363 00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:17,300 parenting in my upbringing that I disagreed with that takes a 364 00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:22,600 ton of time and energy and so for us when our kids were that 365 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:27,400 age I mean that's what we were doing as our hobby that was we 366 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,100 were reading about all we were about we were in church that we 367 00:21:30,100 --> 00:21:35,300 were serving in church together. We were having conversations 368 00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:37,200 around all of that with our kids. 369 00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:41,400 We were calling them to sacrifice as a part of all that 370 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,500 that was all exposing that was creating the need for 371 00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:47,500 conversation. And that was, I mean, that's a 372 00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:51,200 ton of time and energy, but the interesting thing is, if you so 373 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:56,700 in that season, then you begin to reap some dividends for that. 374 00:21:56,700 --> 00:21:58,500 Hopefully, as your kids, get older. 375 00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:01,600 And it doesn't always work 100% that way. 376 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,400 But I would say you reap dividends even if they're not 377 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,500 spiritually, exactly where you wanted to be. 378 00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:09,200 If you have a human being, who knows how to be with other 379 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,700 people, have a conversation and gauge that they've been trained 380 00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:15,500 and all that, right? Then your life's gonna be 381 00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:17,500 better. You're going to reap later, 382 00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:18,900 right? Where you, so yeah, we talked 383 00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:22,500 about in our home, being a fully functioning member of society. 384 00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:24,300 Yeah, that's exactly. That's what we're doing today. 385 00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:26,800 We're training you to be a fully functioning member of society 386 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,500 about, I think this idea of Appling is a misnomer. 387 00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:33,600 We use it. We misunderstand it to in 388 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,500 relationships within the church, we talk about discipline. 389 00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:39,300 We don't really see our everyday relationships as part of 390 00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:42,800 formative discipline, spiritual formation being made into the 391 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,400 image of Christ, growing our devotion. 392 00:22:44,900 --> 00:22:47,200 And so when we talk about discipline your kids, it's 393 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:48,900 almost always bad stuff. Hmm. 394 00:22:49,100 --> 00:22:50,900 It's like oh, are you discipline, your kids? 395 00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:51,700 I don't know. Should we spank? 396 00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:53,800 Or should we not Spanx? Like know that, you're asking 397 00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:55,400 your question? I was going to say, you're done. 398 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:56,400 That's, that's the wrong question. 399 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,700 Yeah. Time out count to three, I hear 400 00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:00,400 it all these things. We can't we should do this. 401 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:01,900 We should do this now, you're missing the point. 402 00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:05,900 Yeah, there is yes, we got to have a conversation around that 403 00:23:05,900 --> 00:23:11,400 but what happens before that and so you have to have times of 404 00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:16,100 times of Peace where you're willing to have those difficult 405 00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:19,600 conversations but because you're so tired, when you have those 406 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,700 like quiet times of Peace. It's like well that's the last 407 00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:23,900 thing I want to talk about is intentional parenting, right. 408 00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:26,000 But that's really where you make you make. 409 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,300 Hey, it's where? Yeah, that's where you take 410 00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:29,400 ground. Yeah, and just simple things 411 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,900 like you don't have to. This is what I would. 412 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,900 Suggest is that you don't have to go looking for those 413 00:23:34,900 --> 00:23:37,900 opportunities. I think today, I hear people 414 00:23:37,900 --> 00:23:41,800 talking about trying to create all these events and because we 415 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,500 had had ceremony as a part of our culture or not a part of a 416 00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:46,500 traditional culture. People come untethered. 417 00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:50,400 But this is what I would say, is The Breakfast Table is a great 418 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,800 opportunity to train, right? Emil to eat something. 419 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,800 That is not your preference. It's a great opportunity to 420 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,300 train to show respect for somebody who serve me by 421 00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:04,900 preparing this meal. To sit at a table together with 422 00:24:04,900 --> 00:24:06,900 other people who had different days. 423 00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:11,200 Some of who are in a good mood in a bad mood, And to stop what 424 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,500 I'm thinking about pray, give thanks for this food and then 425 00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:16,600 create an environment where people can actually have a 426 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,400 conversation. Just the meal time with young 427 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,500 children, you know. So when I hear parents, say we 428 00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:28,200 can never go out to eat. Or when I hear parents say, you 429 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,200 know, I can't eat at the table. I have to feed my children and 430 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,700 get rid of them, so I can eat we eat after our kids, go to bed, 431 00:24:33,900 --> 00:24:36,700 you were, I believe you're wasting a huge opportunity to 432 00:24:36,700 --> 00:24:39,200 discipline your children, to teach them to be a part. 433 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,400 And discipline is disciple, is this as an opportunity for us to 434 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,200 be together to receive something with gratitude to humble myself 435 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,900 to take something that maybe would not be my favorite and to 436 00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:53,900 not throw a fit about it. You know, I'm tired or I want to 437 00:24:53,908 --> 00:24:56,100 get up and go play, but we're going to sit now. 438 00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:59,800 You can carry all that too far, but that's just bedtime, right? 439 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,300 Take a bath. Don't create chaos, out of that. 440 00:25:02,300 --> 00:25:06,100 Put my toys away, get in bed and then have my imagination 441 00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:09,200 captivated as I go to bed. Sing a song about. 442 00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:10,900 Out who God is and what God has done. 443 00:25:10,900 --> 00:25:16,500 I'm disciplining my thoughts. Around now today is at a closed. 444 00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:19,300 And we're going to ask God to forgive us for the things that 445 00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:21,000 we've done that. We shouldn't have done that way 446 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,700 and you heard me speak to your mom that way and I shouldn't 447 00:25:23,700 --> 00:25:26,000 have done that and I'm asking God to forgive me. 448 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,500 I'm your mom and I are going to make that right before we go to 449 00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:30,100 bed tonight. That's discipline. 450 00:25:30,900 --> 00:25:32,800 That's discipling. Your and industrious. 451 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,800 Waking up and going to bed. All of those are things going to 452 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,100 bed on a schedule except for, when you make an exception to 453 00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:43,700 it, that's discipline. And so, if you're doing those 454 00:25:43,700 --> 00:25:46,500 sorts of things with your children, when they're young, 455 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,900 You're equipping them right? You know you're not being 456 00:25:50,900 --> 00:25:54,700 indulgent to them and you're not explaining everything to them 457 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,200 because you don't have time to So, thinking through different 458 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,900 stages, when we come in jumping around a little bit and 459 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,700 developmental stages, but you said up until your kids were 460 00:26:07,900 --> 00:26:11,200 preteen like 12, right? Where you do a lot of that work. 461 00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:15,900 So, this age range, that's a real sweet spot that we're 462 00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:18,600 trying to identify as the church where we really want to come 463 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,400 alongside parents. Give them some additional tools. 464 00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:26,300 We're thinking that's Ages nine, ten somewhere in there. 465 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,400 Sure? Why? 466 00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:30,200 Why that age? Do you think? 467 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:38,900 Well, what we seem to be hearing in student Ministry is that just 468 00:26:38,900 --> 00:26:41,000 because of exposure. If you're not really 469 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,400 intentionally in the game by middle school, and if you're not 470 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,000 capturing your children's, imagine their moral imagination, 471 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:54,600 their spiritual imagination, You're not equipping them with 472 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,900 self-mastery. By that age, is really difficult 473 00:26:58,900 --> 00:27:02,000 to make up ground afterwards. That does seem to be different 474 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:08,400 culturally. Now, and so, it just seems like 475 00:27:08,900 --> 00:27:13,100 in this season of what we've talked about at times as 476 00:27:13,100 --> 00:27:17,400 establishing Authority, That there's a God and you're not 477 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:18,600 him. It's one of the first things we 478 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,800 teach infusion is to be under God's Authority, and then, to be 479 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,800 able to experience a glad-hearted obedience that I'm 480 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,600 okay to be a child and not be in charge and not be worried about 481 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:32,900 things that are too great for me. 482 00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:35,800 I would read that song this morning have a weaned and 483 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:42,100 quieted soul where I'm calm and I can receive instruction and I 484 00:27:42,108 --> 00:27:46,100 can receive comfort. That if you haven't learned how 485 00:27:46,100 --> 00:27:49,400 to do that by the time you're nine or ten years old, it gets 486 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:54,000 really difficult and our culture is and not helping people learn 487 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,700 how to do that. I mean, people were living in 488 00:27:55,700 --> 00:28:01,700 anxious toil and they're a bunch of other things coming down the 489 00:28:01,700 --> 00:28:06,600 pipe after that, that it's important for us to buy that 490 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,700 season. We want to help parents to a 1 491 00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:11,300 in that way and to equip their kids in that way. 492 00:28:12,300 --> 00:28:15,900 Because the things that come subsequent to that, I used to 493 00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:19,500 talk about it as do this handle this. 494 00:28:19,700 --> 00:28:21,300 And what do you think about this? 495 00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:26,400 So when my kids were little, I wanted them to be good at 496 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,100 glad-hearted, obedience to what they were told to do. 497 00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:33,600 As they began to get more into Middle School. 498 00:28:34,100 --> 00:28:37,300 I wanted them to begin to be able to be entrusted with 499 00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:41,300 responsibilities without specific instruction, and for 500 00:28:41,300 --> 00:28:44,900 them to carry something and have a sense of this is my job to 501 00:28:44,900 --> 00:28:47,800 own. And now I'm accountable for 502 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,700 whether I did this, effectively is my job, to remember, not my 503 00:28:51,700 --> 00:28:55,200 parent's job to remind. I wanted to transition to all of 504 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,700 that and then once they began to get into their teen years, I 505 00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:03,500 wanted to be Having real conversations about. 506 00:29:03,500 --> 00:29:05,000 Well, what do you think about this? 507 00:29:05,300 --> 00:29:10,200 What would you like to do? If you had a future, you know, 508 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,200 but they have to have already had their imagination. 509 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,400 They have to be ever been humbled by doing some real 510 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,800 things, and they have to know what some of their strengths and 511 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,000 weaknesses are at that point to, you know, one of my son's was 512 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,400 having a conversation with another guy in a summer job. 513 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,700 And this guy was he'd been raised in a Christian home and 514 00:29:31,100 --> 00:29:34,400 He was about 18 years old, he's an outlier. 515 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,500 But my son was talking to him about what he'd like to do this 516 00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:40,600 future and he's like, you know, I think I'd like I might like to 517 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,500 be a professional baseball player and so he was not why I 518 00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:46,500 have a brother who's a professional baseball player. 519 00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:49,500 And this guy was like, yeah, I mean, just he's like, so, are 520 00:29:49,500 --> 00:29:53,600 you on a baseball team? He's like, no, and my son came 521 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,800 home. He was he was just this guy, was 522 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,900 that. That's an extreme example of it, 523 00:29:58,900 --> 00:30:02,500 right? But If you get into high school 524 00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:06,600 age and you don't have some sense of what it's like a form 525 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,900 of child abuse, right? This is a young man who's 526 00:30:09,900 --> 00:30:13,800 ill-equipped was where he fits into the world and he's just not 527 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,200 been equipped by his parents. I'm sure. 528 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,800 Good folks, you know, who care about him, right? 529 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:24,000 But he's just not prepared. And so I think that process of 530 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,000 having been humbled had carried responsibility, figured out what 531 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,000 kind of where you fit a little bit and I think well, no one who 532 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,800 you are and what you're doing. What would you like to do? 533 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:32,900 Where would you like to go to college? 534 00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:34,900 Where would you? There's a lot of work that's 535 00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:37,300 involved in the early years and someone someone doesn't just 536 00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:40,600 wake up, knowing that stuff bill. 537 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,300 There's a ton of resources on our website at resources dot 538 00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:46,900 Grace Church us, c.org for parenting. 539 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,500 Could you maybe clothesline the plane with us and just maybe 540 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,000 just commissioned us as parents on. 541 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,300 What would, what would the next if you could change one thing in 542 00:30:57,308 --> 00:31:00,300 your parenting or do something right now in your parenting? 543 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,800 For the? Next 30 days you know what would 544 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,600 you what would you just a couple steps that couple thoughts you 545 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,000 had advised us on? That's a good question. 546 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,500 I think don't overreact first of all. 547 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,100 So this is a think. One of the difficulties is if 548 00:31:18,100 --> 00:31:20,900 you realize you're behind or you're not as engaged as you 549 00:31:20,900 --> 00:31:23,900 need to be. The first thing is to stop and 550 00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:31,000 reflect and part of humility is just to own your piece and not 551 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,300 go try to fix everything at once. 552 00:31:34,300 --> 00:31:38,700 And so I would say that that's a big thing. 553 00:31:38,700 --> 00:31:41,400 You got to know your personality a little bit. 554 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,400 The second thing is if you're married have a conversation with 555 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:51,600 your spouse and get on the same page and and biblical Community, 556 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,700 do that. Go have a conversation with 557 00:31:53,700 --> 00:31:55,200 people. I mean Rachel and I when we were 558 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,400 Trying to parent our kids. We had a number of Seasons where 559 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,800 we came up against some obstacles where we cannot get on 560 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,100 the same page and we would go to our Biblical community and say, 561 00:32:06,100 --> 00:32:11,200 we are not in agreement on this and I think this and she would 562 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,700 say what she thinks and we would invite other people into that. 563 00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:17,400 And we had a couple of Seasons where we had about six months, 564 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:22,000 where we had to do, some really intentional work to figure out 565 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,900 how to get on the same page and really trust one another and 566 00:32:24,900 --> 00:32:30,900 here, Each other's concerns were. and so you got to get on 567 00:32:30,900 --> 00:32:35,300 the same page as best you can and then depending on the age of 568 00:32:35,300 --> 00:32:38,900 your children, if you have teenagers You got to go 569 00:32:38,900 --> 00:32:40,600 acknowledge to them. Hey, these are some of the 570 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,000 things that we're thinking and be vulnerable with them. 571 00:32:45,100 --> 00:32:48,200 If you don't, if you're if your kids are younger than it's 572 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,400 simpler, but take advantage of the resources that are around 573 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,700 you and spend time getting on the same page. 574 00:32:54,700 --> 00:32:57,500 That's the thing I would say when you have young children get 575 00:32:57,500 --> 00:33:02,600 your imagination Captivate it. And get a vision for what you 576 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,400 want your family to look like. Because you're not going to 577 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,500 answer for whether or not your family. 578 00:33:08,500 --> 00:33:12,800 Look like my family, you're going to answer for what you did 579 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,400 with, what God gave you You're not going to be able to point 580 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,400 someone else. Say well I did what they told me 581 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,900 you know, that's not how that works. 582 00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:23,600 You gotta understand. Sibility God entrusted to you 583 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,500 with the gifts that God gave you and I think that's the important 584 00:33:27,500 --> 00:33:29,100 thing. I did not. 585 00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:32,600 I underestimated the role of gifting and personality and 586 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,000 parenting. So I was real free to tell 587 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,800 people what to do and some particular things when I was 588 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,100 younger as a teacher. And I regret that now because 589 00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:47,400 you got to, you got to do what you are gifted to do. 590 00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:50,100 We all have the same responsibility to disciple our 591 00:33:50,100 --> 00:33:52,700 children. We all on the same outcome when 592 00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:54,900 our children to walk with Jesus, and be equipped to live in 593 00:33:54,900 --> 00:33:57,500 fruitful lives in the world, to make the world a better place, 594 00:33:57,500 --> 00:34:00,600 that is our job, and you got to figure out how to do that. 595 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,300 But there are things that God is going to hold me accountable for 596 00:34:04,300 --> 00:34:06,500 that. He gave to me that he didn't 597 00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:08,600 give to you, or he didn't give to Yuma. 598 00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:11,400 And then there are things that God gave to y'all. 599 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,300 That he didn't give to me. And so we could judge one 600 00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:18,800 another as parents, which I think happens a lot to make 601 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,300 ourselves feel better about one another. 602 00:34:20,300 --> 00:34:22,600 But in reality, that's that's the wrong standard. 603 00:34:23,500 --> 00:34:25,800 You got to use the gifts that God gave you. 604 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,600 And then we as the church have to come alongside one another 605 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:34,500 and help fill in the gaps. you know, and I think that's If I 606 00:34:34,500 --> 00:34:37,100 want people to do anything, I want people to think about it in 607 00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:39,199 that way. And then, but if you don't go 608 00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:42,300 take the opportunity and take the resources that God has given 609 00:34:42,300 --> 00:34:45,800 you through your community and you don't humbly address these 610 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,000 issues. Then you are going to, you're 611 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,699 going to regret it and even if nothing else, even if things 612 00:34:52,699 --> 00:34:55,500 turn out great for your kids but you missed the opportunity to 613 00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:58,000 have the relationship with your kids that you could have had. 614 00:34:59,300 --> 00:35:02,900 Then you're going to be full of regret over that even if it goes 615 00:35:02,900 --> 00:35:05,500 well for them. Because you're going to have 616 00:35:05,500 --> 00:35:09,500 missed the kind of community, you could have with your 617 00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:12,500 children and most of your relationship with your kids is 618 00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:16,900 going to be as adults. You only have them as small and 619 00:35:16,900 --> 00:35:21,400 impressionable for a very brief period of time, and then they're 620 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,500 just going to be adults that love you and respect you or 621 00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:26,800 don't for decades. God willing. 622 00:35:26,900 --> 00:35:29,800 Hopefully and they get to choose whether they want to be friends 623 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,100 with you or not be friends with you. 624 00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:34,900 And you get to choose, whether these are people that I want to 625 00:35:34,900 --> 00:35:38,900 go on vacation with, you know, that's one of my new things is. 626 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,500 I'm trying to parent in such a way that I hope produce people 627 00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:45,100 that make my vacation better. This, I think this is a and this 628 00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:47,900 sound real spiritual. This is like, I'm trying to do 629 00:35:47,900 --> 00:35:50,300 my part to help ensure that this is somebody. 630 00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:53,700 I would enjoy spending a week with and I'm trying to be 631 00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:56,800 someone and grow to be someone that they would enjoy spending a 632 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,800 week with their kind of cuts through some stuff Janna. 633 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,100 And there's a lot of iron Ernie. And that we spend, we are 634 00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:06,600 tempted to spend a lot of time when they're teenagers, trying 635 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,900 to be their friends. Yeah, without thinking what we 636 00:36:09,908 --> 00:36:11,900 have to do and they're teenagers, so that we can have 637 00:36:11,900 --> 00:36:14,800 Decades of friendship later on. No, that's exactly right. 638 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:21,900 And I just tell you between I would say 17 and 19. 639 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,800 Well, one of my son's, he needed me in that period and he knew 640 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,200 where he needed me. And so one is complicated for 641 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,800 him. But for three of my four 17 and 642 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,200 19, they just had a hard time believing that what I was 643 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,200 telling them was true. You know, I remember, describing 644 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,700 a situation to one of them and I could tell he's rolling his 645 00:36:40,700 --> 00:36:42,000 eyes. I said you think I'm lying to 646 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:43,000 you. He said, I just think you're 647 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,000 exaggerating to make a point. I don't really think it's that 648 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,000 big a deal which I'm prone to do. 649 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:47,600 He buzzed? Listen. 650 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,900 Teach you know that I like hyperbole but then we got 651 00:36:50,900 --> 00:36:53,900 through his third year of college and I said hey man was I 652 00:36:53,908 --> 00:36:58,100 exaggerating on that point. He said you are not you know but 653 00:36:58,100 --> 00:37:00,700 at the time it was I was trying to I knew what was coming for 654 00:37:00,700 --> 00:37:04,700 him because I lived it right you know and so I think you got to 655 00:37:04,700 --> 00:37:08,800 be willing in that moment. But I had credibility at 21. 656 00:37:08,900 --> 00:37:10,800 Yeah. That I did not have at 18 657 00:37:10,900 --> 00:37:12,200 because he had lived through those years. 658 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,200 He's like, no, you were 100% telling me the truth, man. 659 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:15,900 I wouldn't hear you, I wouldn't have believed it. 660 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,400 So I do that. It is definitely a point to be 661 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,800 considered for sure. Well, this has been great, 662 00:37:23,900 --> 00:37:26,700 you've given us a great, some good thoughts on what it looks 663 00:37:26,700 --> 00:37:30,300 like to parent. And so thank you for being here 664 00:37:30,300 --> 00:37:32,800 and sharing with us. Anything else you want to add? 665 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:34,700 I'm good. I've probably said a little more 666 00:37:34,700 --> 00:37:36,300 than I should. I'm kind of regretting some of 667 00:37:36,300 --> 00:37:39,100 it already. Now we appreciate it. 668 00:37:39,100 --> 00:37:40,900 Thanks so much. Thanks Bill. 669 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,600 Well, as we wrap up today's conversation, we want to thank 670 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,300 you for joining us. We realized that listening to a 671 00:37:47,300 --> 00:37:51,100 podcast episode can be an individual experience which we 672 00:37:51,100 --> 00:37:54,400 believe is only enhanced by talking through it and applying 673 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,500 it to life. And this is something that we 674 00:37:56,500 --> 00:37:59,600 believe lots of people don't naturally seek out or have built 675 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,000 into their lives. So we want to encourage you to 676 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,800 share this episode with someone else and ask them to share with 677 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,900 you any takeaways. They receive from listening. 678 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,200 Be prepared to do the same and approach their feedback with a 679 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,300 posture to learn and apply. This is a great way to move 680 00:38:13,300 --> 00:38:16,700 towards this discipleship issue. If you have questions or want 681 00:38:16,700 --> 00:38:19,900 access to additional resources, be sure to check out our podcast 682 00:38:19,900 --> 00:38:23,000 page located in the show notes. And if we can help you answer, 683 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,500 any questions about this episode or want us to discuss something 684 00:38:26,500 --> 00:38:29,900 in a future episode, please, visit the podcast page and click 685 00:38:29,900 --> 00:38:33,000 on ask risk and Scott and will reach out to you. 686 00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:36,000 Thanks for joining us today and we look forward to joining you 687 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:13,300 on the next episode. This is a great way to move 688 00:38:13,300 --> 00:38:16,700 towards this discipleship issue. If you have questions or want 689 00:38:16,700 --> 00:38:19,900 access to additional resources, be sure to check out our podcast 690 00:38:19,900 --> 00:38:23,000 page located in the show notes. And if we can help you answer, 691 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,500 any questions about this episode or want us to discuss something 692 00:38:26,500 --> 00:38:29,900 in a future episode, please, visit the podcast page and click 693 00:38:29,900 --> 00:38:33,000 on ask risk and Scott and will reach out to you. 694 00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:36,000 Thanks for joining us today and we look forward to joining you 695 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,100 on the next episode.