1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:09,920 And so I, I would say that if we are thinking about the 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:14,520 challenges to studying the Bible, I would put the, the lack 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:19,160 of tools or the lack of knowledge of a method, I would 4 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,720 put that down the list. I would say that that's 5 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,680 actually, I'm going to put that at #4 And I think there are 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,520 three significant challenges that we have to be honest and 7 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:34,040 have to face before we even get to observing and interpreting 8 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:38,280 and applying. Hey everyone, and welcome back 9 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,280 to the Grace Church Podcast. I'm your host, Whitney Manus, 10 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,800 and we've got our first episode of 2026 today. 11 00:00:45,480 --> 00:00:48,760 Element took us a little while to get through some ice and snow 12 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,320 and sickness and the Olympics and all that good stuff, but we 13 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,840 are back in the studio looking forward to some good 14 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,920 conversations this year. And we want y'all to know, we're 15 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,480 always praying that this podcast would just be a resource that 16 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,760 helps you grow in your spiritual formation, think about life in 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,280 the world through a biblical lens, and ultimately that God 18 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,360 would just transform all of us into new creations by changing 19 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,760 the way we think. We always want that to be at the 20 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,520 forefront of our mind. So with that in mind, I've got 21 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,440 Scott here with me. Good to see you, Scott. 22 00:01:19,960 --> 00:01:22,240 It is good to be here, Whitney. And you're right, we do have 23 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,880 some great topics and speakers lined up. 24 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,200 Guests, I guess would be the more appropriate word. 25 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,280 So really excited about what we've got in store for 2026. 26 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:34,880 For sure. And today, Scott, you get to 27 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,640 teach a class with our interns in residence on how to study the 28 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,960 Bible. And so that's obviously a huge 29 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:44,080 value of ours to be biblically oriented. 30 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,520 And we thought there was no better way to start this year 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:47,960 than talking about being in the Word. 32 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,880 And particularly just around this idea of, I think we would 33 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,920 all agree that studying in Scripture is one of the most 34 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:56,760 important spiritual disciplines we can do. 35 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,320 But then, if we're all honest about it, it seems to be one of 36 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:06,000 the most difficult ones to do well and to do regularly. 37 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,759 And at least for me, I feel like the solution can sometimes tend 38 00:02:09,759 --> 00:02:12,680 to be like Nike slogan, like just do it. 39 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,480 Yeah, just whatever you got to do, just do it. 40 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,960 And then you do it for a little while and you're like, I don't 41 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:19,920 know the The thing is just. Grind it, grind it out. 42 00:02:19,920 --> 00:02:24,200 Coming from this, you know, or maybe even worse, like some 43 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,400 implication that like, you know, I just don't think you love God 44 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,120 enough. And if you did, then you would 45 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,360 prioritize it. And I'm like, I do think that's 46 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,520 kind of the point. Like, you know, in my sin, I do 47 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,280 not love God the way that I should. 48 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,080 And that's what I need Scripture for. 49 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:44,040 It's this the cycle and those aren't untrue, but they're just 50 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,840 incomplete. And so we really just want to 51 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,040 pose today, what is the at the root of our difficulty to read 52 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,520 scripture and how can we take helpful steps to grow in that 53 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,400 discipline. So I'll have you answer all of 54 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,120 that in perfectly ready for us. Well, I mean, it is daunting 55 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:03,320 because we have this pressure, expectation, knowledge that this 56 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,120 is the word of God and it's vital to our relationship with 57 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,160 God. And then we look at the book and 58 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:09,640 we're like, man, that is a really big book. 59 00:03:09,640 --> 00:03:10,960 That's right. And. 60 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,320 With thin pages. Yeah, and it's like the old, 61 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,520 new, lots of different authors, things I don't understand. 62 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,800 I mean, and it can, if we're not in the right mindset when we 63 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,440 come to God's Word, then we can really set ourselves up with 64 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,800 failure. So it is nice to talk about a 65 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:33,400 method, a strategy, and so why don't we just start there and 66 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,160 then let's that'll take us on a little bit of journey and hit a 67 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,400 few different topics as it relates to Bible study. 68 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,360 Yeah. And so wait, what do you mean by 69 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:41,840 a method? Can define that for. 70 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,560 Us yeah, it's a method. It's just, it's a strategy, it's 71 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,280 a plan. It's, it's a starting point. 72 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,840 It's something that I have in my mind when I come to the 73 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,760 scriptures as a way to approach them. 74 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,920 That's not just OK, I'm going to, I'm going to just start 75 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,040 here. You know, I'm going to turn the 76 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,600 Bible to a pay random page. I'm going to put my finger down 77 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,880 and I'm going to start and I'm not really going to know what 78 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,160 I'm reading and, or even maybe even why. 79 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,840 You know, like I said, I, I, I know it's important to be with 80 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,000 God in his word, but I don't know how to do that. 81 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:17,320 So what's, what's my, what's my plan to, to go into a time of 82 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,720 studying and we'll talk about the difference here in a second. 83 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:26,200 And so let me just give you the, the, the, the idea of what one 84 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,200 way to study the Bible is. And there's, there's, there's 85 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,360 several ways, but I just like to break it down into 3 categories, 86 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,840 right? So a method is a strategy or 87 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:36,840 plan. Here's your plan, 3 categories. 88 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:42,040 Ask basically these questions you observe and you interpret 89 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,080 and you apply. So those are your three areas. 90 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:45,200 And then these are your questions. 91 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,800 When you observe, you're just really saying, what do I see 92 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:55,520 here in the Scriptures? So I'm trying to forget some of 93 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,320 my presuppositions, and I'm really just asking lots of 94 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,920 questions of the text. So what do I see? 95 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:03,280 We'll come back to each of these in a second. 96 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:08,760 Interpret, what does it mean? So interpret, what does it mean? 97 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,160 So I have to see before I can interpret. 98 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,080 And then application, what should I do? 99 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,880 So what do I see? What does it mean? 100 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,400 What should I do? Observe, interpret, apply. 101 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:26,760 So you know, you may have heard the road ROAD which is read, 102 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,200 observe, apply, depend, same idea. 103 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:34,440 I think we used to teach in Grace Church kids SOAP, which 104 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,880 was scripture Observe, apply, depend. 105 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,680 So same same ideas, even 7 arrows. 106 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,880 That's right, yeah. You've done some work there. 107 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:44,640 Yeah. It's really kind of, I guess you 108 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,640 pick the number of steps that you want to, right. 109 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,360 But the, the, it all does boil down to really those 3 110 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,440 categories. And yeah, like we're not 111 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,360 necessarily here to ascribe one that is better than the other. 112 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:59,080 Some of it depends on your personality, but it those are 113 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,280 the general principles that we bring. 114 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,280 And you mentioned a second ago, So we're talking about studying 115 00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:07,560 today. What is the difference between 116 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,840 studying my Bible verses? Like I'm just, I'm sitting down 117 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:12,360 and reading it. Yeah. 118 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,720 So in this, you know, method is just an anchoring point, right, 119 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,000 for for study. And when I mean study, I mean 120 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:25,400 study means slow. So study means give yourself 121 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:26,320 some grace. Yeah. 122 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:33,120 And when I say study, I mean one verse, 5 verses, 7 verses, half 123 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,600 a chapter. I'm talking about pen in hand. 124 00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:40,240 Some people like to use markers for me, I think with a pen in my 125 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:41,560 hand. So I'm circling, I'm 126 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,120 underlining, I'm, I'm going through these steps, 127 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,560 particularly observation, right? I'm looking for keywords and 128 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,240 cause and effect statements and commands and linking words and, 129 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,840 and a copy of a simple Bible study outline is, is in your 130 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:55,040 show notes. So we're not going to go through 131 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:56,440 it step by step. That's not the point of this 132 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,200 podcast. But as you work through an 133 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,520 outline, you've got your pen. I would say get a Bible that you 134 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,920 feel OK about writing in. You know, there was this really 135 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,400 sweet girl last year and Guy Ross, and she's like, I can't 136 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:11,920 write in my Bible. I was like, OK, well, then go 137 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:13,160 buy another one, right? Like. 138 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,280 I've got mine, it's got the little lines on the. 139 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,520 Side adrenaline bottle. I'll write too much and then I 140 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,920 can't see what the actual words say, so I have to write next. 141 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,480 To it or everybody has access to some kind of printer. 142 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,200 So just you know, go on Bible Gateway and just copy and paste 143 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,840 and drop it in a Word document. Just something that you can just 144 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:35,320 slow down and, and study. And so why, why is that 145 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,440 different? Like reading, reading the Bible 146 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,120 is an important discipline and it's really should be a daily 147 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,040 discipline. And I'm, I'm trying to 148 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,080 distinguish that from studying where you might just have a 149 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:48,880 couple times a week where you're studying. 150 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,040 You just need to know how to study. 151 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,320 Reading needs to be a daily discipline. 152 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,600 Most of the of the books, particularly New Testament, you 153 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:02,200 could read in under 30 minutes. Certainly Paul's epistles you 154 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,440 could do in under 20 minutes. And so read those like you would 155 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,000 read any other book, any other literature. 156 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:09,480 Yeah, start at the beginning, right? 157 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,880 Read through to the end and get the full understanding. 158 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,400 And that's, that's different than what we're talking about 159 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:17,360 today. Right. 160 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,680 So we're not necessarily saying like seven days a Week, 2 hours 161 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,560 wake up at 4:00 AM, like study, work through this whole process 162 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,560 every single day. And I know that brings a little 163 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,040 bit of consternation for some of our folks. 164 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:30,760 So we have a number of people doing reading through the 165 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:31,520 scriptures. Yeah. 166 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,720 And I'm leading that on Tuesday nights in Travelers Rest. 167 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,559 And we've had a number of people there say I just can't, I can't 168 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,880 study it the way I want. I want to be in the commentaries 169 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,559 and I want to be seeing what other people say. 170 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,320 And I want to slow down and I want to what you're talking 171 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:46,760 about with a pen. And I'm like, that's different, 172 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:48,600 right? Like we're, we're reading 173 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,440 through the scripture and we are just trying to practice the 174 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,600 daily discipline of being in God's word and seeing what jumps 175 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,640 off the page at US. And, and yeah, we are, we're 176 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,040 definitely missing some stuff that's by design, right? 177 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:04,400 Because we're developing a, a, a muscle of reading today. 178 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,360 We're talking about developing a muscle of studying, right? 179 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,480 And so, I mean, let me give you this example. 180 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:15,080 So, you know, my son's in college and when we use the word 181 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,560 studying, right, he's studying for an exam. 182 00:09:17,560 --> 00:09:20,640 But really what he's doing is he's trying to cover a large 183 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:25,640 amount of material, a large number of concepts to hopefully 184 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,480 be proficient enough to make a passing grade on an exam. 185 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,800 And we call that studying. And you know exactly what I'm 186 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,320 talking about. Everybody has been in that 187 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,840 situation where you are trying to cover a huge amount of a 188 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,680 material, and we do call that studying. 189 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,120 That's not what I'm talking about here. 190 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:47,520 What I'm talking about here is think if you are an artist, 191 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,880 let's say you're a portrait artist and you have someone 192 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,480 sitting in front of you and you are drawing their portrait. 193 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,600 You are studying every aspect of their face, every line, every 194 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:07,640 curve, every beautiful part of their face to be able to emulate 195 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,400 that in the work that you're doing. 196 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:14,000 So you are studying and you slow down and you this illustration 197 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,560 work because you do it with a a pen in hand and and you are 198 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:19,840 creating something, I think about museums. 199 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:21,800 Yeah. Do you have a favorite museum? 200 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:27,320 I humblebrag studied abroad in Spain and I do love the Prado 201 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,400 OK. Prada is a great example. 202 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,080 So particularly any of our large museums, United States or 203 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,640 abroad, my big beef is that people do not really prepare you 204 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:38,760 well to go to a museum. True. 205 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,160 Because like you go to a museum and people say, oh man, you 206 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:43,600 could have spent all day in there. 207 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,280 Well, no, you could have spent weeks in there. 208 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:47,760 You could have spent months in there. 209 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,720 And really the best way to benefit from being in a museum 210 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,080 is to find something that interests you and just study it, 211 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:01,280 linger there and take it all in because you can't really get the 212 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,400 breadth of everything in any given museum. 213 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,440 What you do is you just get tired from walking. 214 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,120 Yeah. And, and it's, it's I've had 215 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,480 some really great days in museums and I've had some really 216 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,800 disappointing days because I didn't have the right mindset 217 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,160 going into what it was I trying to accomplish. 218 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,080 And I'll tell you. So a good day for me was we 219 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:23,440 were, we were in Rome and we went to the Vatican Museum and I 220 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:25,680 knew I wanted to get to the Sistine Chapel and I knew it was 221 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:28,080 at the very end. It was at the very back of the 222 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,400 tour. And so I wasn't on a tour. 223 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,640 That's the first thing. It's like self-guided, right? 224 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:38,000 So self-guided for me went meant fast walking through every other 225 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,160 aspect, all these amazing rooms with incredible works of art and 226 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,560 sculptures and you name it. But I just just wanted to get 227 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,320 into the Sistine Chapel so that I could study the ceiling and 228 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,720 the work of Michelangelo. Yeah, and it was great. 229 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,760 But I had a plan, right? I had a method. 230 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,920 And I wanted to get to a point where I could just linger and 231 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:02,520 really take it all in. Yeah. 232 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,880 And both of those are good examples because, yeah, we think 233 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,560 about studying, we think about cramming for an exam and we 234 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,800 procrastinate a little bit. We got to do it quickly. 235 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,280 Or Yeah, when we went to the Prado and my professor wants to 236 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,480 look at 1 portrait and talk about it for 30 minutes. 237 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,840 And I'm like, man, this is my one chance to see everything in 238 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:22,560 here. You keep talking here. 239 00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:25,840 I'm going to wander around and see everything, which isn't bad, 240 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,120 but like, that's just not going to help me really understand 241 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,520 that one artist. And this is a book written by 242 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,400 one artist whom we do want to know very deeply. 243 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,120 Yeah. And so it really comes down to 244 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:43,360 what are our expectations and what are we trying to accomplish 245 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,120 when we come to the Bible? And and maybe even that word 246 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,280 isn't a good word like accomplishing. 247 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:50,360 Right. For sure. 248 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:56,120 And so I, I would say that if we are thinking about the 249 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:00,680 challenges to studying the Bible, I would put the the lack 250 00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:06,440 of tools or the lack of knowledge of a method, I would 251 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:07,960 put that down the list. Yeah. 252 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:10,840 I would say that that's actually, and, and what I'm 253 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,520 going to, what I'm going to give you, I'm going to put that at #4 254 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,800 And I think there are three significant challenges that we 255 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,880 have to be honest and have to face before we even get to 256 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:23,960 observing and interpreting and applying. 257 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,920 Does that make sense? Yeah, which is helpful because I 258 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,360 would, I think that most of us would probably say the the 259 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,880 method like we don't know how and we'll start there. 260 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:33,760 So then if that's number four, yeah. 261 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,800 What are those other challenges? Yeah, and I'll tell you how I 262 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,360 got there. I'm not going to give you the 263 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:39,920 first one just yet. I'm going to tease it out 264 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,960 because you're, you just want to write a list, right? 265 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,240 We all do. It's like, well, tell me what 266 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,840 they are so I can go accomplish those things and get to #4 But 267 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,760 here's how I got there. I just started talking to our 268 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,000 students and I just said, why should I study the Bible? 269 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,480 And we would have these amazing lists of, you know, it's God, 270 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,800 he's the creator, he all these attributes of him. 271 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,560 It tells us about his relationship to us and sin and 272 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:08,720 salvation. And not just that, but it's a 273 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,360 practical pieces of life. And he cares so much about the 274 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,160 details and all this. I mean, it was just like 275 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:19,040 unbelievable list of the attributes and goodness of God 276 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,040 and his word. And then I was like, OK, well, 277 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,200 what keeps us from studying God's word? 278 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,560 And it would be things like, well, I don't know how, or I 279 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,400 don't have time or I don't really, I'm busy or I don't 280 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,160 really understand the, the relevance. 281 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,320 And I, I would just look at those two lists and I'm like, 282 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,440 OK, guys, this does not add up. There's something, there's a, 283 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,080 there's a, there's an emotional, spiritual, psychological 284 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:43,440 connection here that doesn't add up. 285 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,600 Because if I believed everything that you tell me about God in 286 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,000 his word, there is nothing, there's nothing that would stop 287 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,680 me from figuring out what a fifth grader can do here when 288 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,280 they exercise three steps, observe, interpret, apply. 289 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,000 So what does that mean? That means there's something 290 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,680 else that's going on. I think common in all of us, 291 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,840 which is the way a lot of us have been taught to, to think 292 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:11,360 about information, right? So if we view the Bible as 293 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,920 information, then we're already going down the wrong track. 294 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:19,200 OK, So if I view the Bible as information, then I'm thinking 295 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,040 the the way that I would think about, you know, going back, 296 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,520 showing my age here, but all the way back to encyclopedias, 297 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,160 right. So you get a you get a 298 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,560 assignment in school to do a report is what we used to call 299 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,400 them a report in elementary school. 300 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,120 And you would report on this country or this topic. 301 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,000 And so where would you get your information? 302 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,360 Well, you'd get it from an encyclopedia. 303 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:41,160 Yeah. Right. 304 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,200 And so we all had Britannica World Book in our homes and it 305 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:45,680 was awesome. It was actually really, really 306 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:46,320 cool. Yeah. 307 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,040 Because that was cutting edge at the time, Right. 308 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,040 And then there would be all these, like, magazines, things. 309 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,200 You could go look in the periodicals, and then you could 310 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,400 go look at other books and then their online books. 311 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,040 And then now we have the Internet. 312 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,800 And, gosh, now we have AI. So information is clearly at our 313 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,840 fingertips when we're carrying around computers in our pocket. 314 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,720 And information is not really the issue. 315 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,320 But what if that's the way we think about the Bible is that 316 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,240 we're strictly using it for information? 317 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:16,560 Yeah. And that is going to be a 318 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,560 challenge to study because honestly, let me just say the 319 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,440 quiet part out loud. Like I don't, I don't really 320 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:23,760 need any more information right now. 321 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,200 Yeah. Because things are going pretty 322 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,480 well. And well, I've got enough 323 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,760 everywhere else and I'm a little overloaded if I'm honest. 324 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,360 That's right. So, so, so let me give this 325 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,120 analogy and everybody give me grace and think the best of me 326 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:39,800 here. But I think about it like my 327 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,960 car. So my car is very functional. 328 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,920 It gets me from place to place, and then when a warning light 329 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,760 comes on, I'm like, oh, shoot, right, I got to do something you 330 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,760 don't. Think about it until it's not 331 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,640 doing what it's supposed to. Where's the where's the manual? 332 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:55,480 Yeah, that's going to tell me what's wrong. 333 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,240 And that manual is in the glove box. 334 00:16:58,240 --> 00:16:59,760 Everybody's manual's in the glove box. 335 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,440 And then you grab the manual and you flip through the manual and 336 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,359 you try to find out what the problem is so that you can kind 337 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,960 of solve the problem. If what if that's our view of 338 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:08,839 Scripture? Yeah. 339 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,119 Where, you know, God is somebody. 340 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,079 That kind of gets me from place to place and I don't really know 341 00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:15,960 and I don't really understand and I don't really question it 342 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:17,880 as long as I'm going to places that I want to go. 343 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,720 And then, but what if I there's a new challenge, there's a 344 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,839 relational challenge, there's an opportunity, there's something 345 00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:27,480 I'm not quite sure about and I need some guidance. 346 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,480 I need the manual. Then I go grab the manual and I 347 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,120 flip and I'm like, OK, God, show me what to do, right? 348 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,720 Or this is always a strong point when I'm teaching this with our 349 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,920 students. When did you feel closest to God 350 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,000 and his word and drawn into study? 351 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:47,840 Well, it was in a difficult time of, of suffering when you really 352 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,720 needed God to be all of those attributes that you gave me in 353 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:52,800 that first list, right? You needed him to be sovereign. 354 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:54,720 You needed him to be good. You needed him to be holy. 355 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,640 You needed him to be right. You needed him to be in charge. 356 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,320 And you needed to draw near to all that truth. 357 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,680 And so then it's like we don't have anything else to do but to 358 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,320 go to God's Word, right? Yeah. 359 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,320 So it's almost like what motivates us in the in the most 360 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:11,200 difficults of times shows some of our weaknesses in the easiest 361 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,800 or best of times. Does that make sense? 362 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,360 Yeah. And we did Samson with our 363 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:20,160 students during retreats last year and kind of made that point 364 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,520 of Samson has been incredibly blessed and he kind of squanders 365 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,400 that takes advantage of it. But then now we're reading 366 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,840 Joseph in the life of Joseph in Genesis, and it's actually the 367 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,880 opposite. He has this life of difficulty, 368 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,520 but he actually is more faithful in that. 369 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,280 So that paradigm we do see that even reflected in Scripture. 370 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,160 Yeah, so I would just so let me just tell you the way I 371 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,080 summarize the the number one challenge to our Bible study is, 372 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:51,640 is really a lack of devotion, a lack of devotion to God seeing, 373 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:53,800 not seeing God clearly for who he is. 374 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:58,080 So therefore we have a misguided way that we view the Scriptures. 375 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,600 And, and so I think about what if it was less of a manual? 376 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,880 And maybe, maybe that again, give me the give me some grace 377 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,120 here. Maybe manual's too strong. 378 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:11,280 But, but, but maybe it's this, it's this knowledge base, It's 379 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,200 this whatever you would, whatever word you would put on 380 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,600 it. I, I would say, is it a letter? 381 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,280 Like, do you see it as a letter? Do you see it as something that 382 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:25,000 God has written to his people? Augustine has this great quote 383 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,880 where he says the Bible is our love letters from home. 384 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:30,240 And I just, I just think about that. 385 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,960 I'm like, OK, if I, if I viewed it as a letter that was deeply 386 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,000 relational and personal. And again, it's kind of hard in 387 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,120 the age of texting and emails and all kinds of form of 388 00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:46,480 communication. But what if I went back and I 389 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,760 was having to write letters to someone and receiving letters 390 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,240 from someone that I loved dearly. 391 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,400 When I got that letter, I would pour over it every single word. 392 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,840 I would study it. I would slow down, I would 393 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,200 linger. And because there's depth, 394 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,760 there's depth to all that, that that's what God's Word is. 395 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,160 Yeah, it's something that's written very personally to you 396 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,640 and not just to you, but like to you as much as to anybody else. 397 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:18,120 As opposed to a car manual where Toyota was like we are going to 398 00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:20,640 write this for whoever drives our car and we don't really know 399 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,720 or care anything about them. Yeah, I mean, and so I would say 400 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,600 the down to make too strong of a connection right to the 401 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:27,560 Pharisees. I'm not saying we're all 402 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,600 Pharisees, but I see the human nature. 403 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,040 The challenge of all human nature is to make it about 404 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,120 knowledge, to push it through our own agenda. 405 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,560 And so when they came to Jesus, he has this famous saying when 406 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,680 they're like, he's like, I'm going to summarize all of the 407 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,320 commands of Scripture for you and two things. 408 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,680 Love the Lord your God, heart, soul, mind, strength, love your 409 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,720 neighbor as yourself. Matthew 2237 and following. 410 00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:54,320 And the Pharisees, they knew the word. 411 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,720 Yeah, they knew the word, but they didn't know the person. 412 00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,720 Yeah. And so that's what I would say 413 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,240 the number one challenge is making sure that we're 414 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,920 approaching the Scripture to know the person, the person of 415 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,680 God and what he has written. Not necessarily to us, because 416 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,400 we weren't 1st century Christians if we're thinking 417 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:16,080 about the New Testament, but it was written for us as people 418 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,080 that he loved and his son to die for. 419 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:24,080 And so understanding that is, I think the it's not just number 420 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:30,520 one, it's like #1 ABC and D is to examine our devotion, how we 421 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,840 view God, because how we view God is going to interpret how we 422 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:34,520 view the Scriptures. Yeah, for sure. 423 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,120 OK, so #1 lack of devotion and making sure that we are coming 424 00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:43,800 to Scripture with the author in mind and with a personal 425 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,320 relationship as the root of this, of how we are interacting 426 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:48,280 with this book. Yeah. 427 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,160 And understanding just the big picture that we have one author 428 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,320 working and through multiple human authors, we have one 429 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,640 story, a redemptive story from Genesis to Revelation and not 430 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,560 making ourselves the center of the story. 431 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,600 You know, we talk about being self-made and main character 432 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,560 syndrome, like this is a story about God. 433 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,800 Yes. So if we come to it 434 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,760 understanding what that we want to understand God, well, then 435 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,640 I'm I'm never going to exhaust that. 436 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:15,560 You know, it's never going to be a manual. 437 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:16,760 It's never going to be a trivia book. 438 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,240 It's never going to be a self help book. 439 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,680 It's always going to be something that I can learn from 440 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,680 because I'm desiring to know my father more. 441 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,880 Finding ourself in the story, but understanding that the story 442 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,720 is not about us, it's about God. Yeah, that's great. 443 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,960 That's if you could just do that, then that just shapes 444 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,000 everything. And so the second one where we 445 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,240 struggle is within just a lack of curiosity. 446 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:42,600 Yeah. And it could be a lack of 447 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,520 curiosity about God, big picture. 448 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,160 But really what I think about is just a lack of curiosity. 449 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,000 You know, when I'm looking at the Gospels of, well, what was 450 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,520 it like to live in 1st century Jerusalem? 451 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:59,240 You know, so if, if we're using names and places of, of names of 452 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,080 people I've never met and places I've never been, well, am I 453 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,760 curious about who these people are and where those places are 454 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,880 and what some of the customs are and how like I, I just have to 455 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:14,520 come to scripture with fresh eyes and then ask just lots of 456 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,320 questions. And, you know, I find that this 457 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,520 is more difficult to cultivate the longer you've been a 458 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,720 Christian because you're like, yeah, I, I know that, I know 459 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,560 that text. Yeah, I know that passage. 460 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,480 I know that story. And it's like, well, do you, 461 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,400 what, what if you didn't? Could you come back and look at 462 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,080 it again for the, for the first time? 463 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:38,720 And, and so the, the curiosity, I think is a, is a big part that 464 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,400 it keeps us from taking verses out of context, right? 465 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:49,080 I, I, you know, I talk about coffee cup Christianity and, you 466 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,920 know, just having these, these verses, these sayings that get 467 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,680 floated around. Now I could, it could be like 468 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,840 social, social media Christianity, but you know, like 469 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,640 Philippians 413. I can do all things through 470 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,680 Christ who strengthens me. Hobby Lobby Sign versus. 471 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,320 I'll be careful now and I and I think about, I think about 472 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,680 shooting free throws, right? And sporting events. 473 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:09,960 I can do all things through Christ. 474 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,560 And it's like, well, am I curious about like, so Paul, I 475 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:15,680 think, yeah. Who wrote that? 476 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,840 Paul? Where was he in prison? 477 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,000 What's the context? Go back and read it. 478 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,640 I mean, it's very, very, very different when you are just 479 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,920 curious, right? For I know the plans I have for 480 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,080 you, plans to prosper you, not to harm you, plans to give you 481 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,080 hope in the future. Jeremiah 2911, every great 482 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,160 graduation verse. And so instead of just kind of 483 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,160 taking that and making yourself the center of it, but like, OK, 484 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,440 well, who who's Jeremiah and who's he writing to? 485 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,040 And why did he say that? And what are they struggling 486 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,400 with? And then what you find is that 487 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,880 the way that we've reduced a lot of these verses, it's not that 488 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,360 it's incorrect. Can I do all things through 489 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:57,120 Christ who strengthens me? I can't do anything without 490 00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:59,320 Christ. Everything I do comes from 491 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,440 Christ who strengthens me. But for what purposes? 492 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,320 So Paul helps fill out those purposes. 493 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,640 You know, does God have a plan? Yeah, It's incredible that God 494 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,400 has a plan. But when you go back and you 495 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,800 you're doing the Old Testament study, you're like, oh, these 496 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,800 are to people who have suffered the worst consequence of 497 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:15,960 disobeying God. Yeah. 498 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,000 Who've been kicked out of the land, Who've been exiled for 70 499 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,240 years. Yeah. 500 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,440 And he comes to them with this type of hope and this type of 501 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,080 promise like it's, I often say, you know, it's not incorrect, 502 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,360 it's just incomplete. And we're we with the lack of 503 00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:35,280 curiosity, we are content with reading the Bible in in black 504 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:36,840 and white. Like not literally black and 505 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,600 white, but think black and white television when we have like HD 506 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,800 surround sound available to us. If we'll just be curious, yeah. 507 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,440 For sure. And we'll, we'll tag these in 508 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,240 the show notes. But it reminds me of Mike 509 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:55,360 Tibera's episode last year where we talked about loving learning 510 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,040 and always being a learner, you know, and cultivating that 511 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,400 curiosity. And then our episode with Jackie 512 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,840 Davenport where she talks about the joy of discovering something 513 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,400 or you have to go digging a little bit. 514 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,000 But the work that you did, the research that you did, makes it 515 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,600 so much richer, you know? And when you have that 516 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,040 curiosity, it means that you're really looking for something 517 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,520 beautiful at the end of the journey. 518 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,320 And so both of those I'm sure apply to this as well. 519 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,480 Yeah, and it's in that section of that's the interpretation 520 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,920 section, if you will, right. I mean, it kind of blends from 521 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,560 from observation into interpretation. 522 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,680 And so yes, if you if you're slowing down and you're curious, 523 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,280 then you can go and use some resources. 524 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,680 You can ask the Internet. OK, tell me about this place. 525 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,560 Can I see some pictures? Who is this person? 526 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,000 Go read some commentaries, do some cross referencing, just 527 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:50,880 linger there and enjoy the learning aspect of it all. 528 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,160 If you remain curious. And just a word, we got to be 529 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:59,240 careful with some of the kind of motion picture adaptations of 530 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,280 the Gospels particularly. But I think like the Chosen I'm 531 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:03,880 thinking about, there's something about that that's 532 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:09,560 super helpful because it does challenge our imagination and 533 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,240 our curiosity. Now, don't let that be your 534 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,480 gospel, whatever depiction you have of Jesus, but it's probably 535 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,800 needs to be compared against whatever picture of Jesus you 536 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,680 have in your own mind. Yeah. 537 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,760 And so just thinking about all of that and then, you know, I've 538 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,800 had a chance to to lead a few trips over to Israel. 539 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,240 And that is the ultimate example of picking your curiosity and 540 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,600 then kind of seeing and smelling and walking in these different 541 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,960 Old Testament, New Testament places. 542 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:42,160 And so, but you can do all that as a curious Bible student. 543 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,400 And that's what I'm jealous for. And we just as a general 544 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,000 challenge, and this is for me too, we as a culture just are 545 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,560 not curious across the board, not just on this topic. 546 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,280 We'll keep talking about it and other subjects as well, but I 547 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,160 think it's a good challenge for us in the ultimate information 548 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,520 age where we have everything accessible to us. 549 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:05,480 It has over saturated us in such a way where we have lost our 550 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,720 ability to be curious a little bit. 551 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,000 Put an exclamation point on that statement you just made. 552 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,680 And the curiosity drives, particularly if you're, if 553 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,320 you're listening to this and you're thinking about what is, 554 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,760 what is ministry look like? How do I serve people? 555 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,240 That's what a minister does. How do I serve people with the 556 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,040 word? You can't do that without 557 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:27,320 curiosity. Yeah. 558 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,800 Curiosity is what keeps you from being self-centered and 559 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,720 self-made. So yeah, put an exclamation 560 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,760 point by that. And then the last one, we, this 561 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,960 is a little more obvious, but just the failure to apply. 562 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,960 So if we talk about observe, interpret and apply and you're, 563 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,800 you're slowing down and you're doing the work. 564 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,640 The truth is like when you get done interpreting and when you 565 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,080 interpret and you come up with this principle, OK, what, what 566 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,400 was God saying to this group of people that feels really good. 567 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,640 Like I feel smart. Yeah. 568 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,440 I feel like I've learned something. 569 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,200 I've learned something of significance. 570 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:10,000 I've had my my mind challenged. I've had my presuppositions 571 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,120 challenged. I've been curious. 572 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,960 And So what I really want to do is I want to stop there and I 573 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:17,960 want to write it down and I want to celebrate it. 574 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,360 And I want to say I've grown. I've checked the box, I did it 575 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,160 MO. And the, and the truth is like 576 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:31,720 this big step that God is saying, no, this word is for you 577 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:38,440 to apply into your life because I want my word to saturate your 578 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,800 mind and your soul, and I want it to change every area of your 579 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,320 life. And then that's where I'm like, 580 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,520 well, I'm pretty good with most areas of my life. 581 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,680 Can you just change these two right? 582 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,280 And and it's like, well, no, that doesn't work because if 583 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,800 anyone is a new creation, 2nd Corinthians 517 says, then then 584 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,960 all has passed away and God is recreating everything in our 585 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,320 life. So that's every single area. 586 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,200 And so I have to ask the question, you know, what, what 587 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,840 is, what is the command that I should follow here? 588 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,480 What is the sin I should avoid? What is the example? 589 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,920 What is God trying to do through his word to change me and 590 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,400 conform me into the image of Christ? 591 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:23,880 And so I like to say that we know that knowledge is bad, 592 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:25,600 right? We know that knowledge puffs up. 593 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,520 We've heard those passages. And we're not just knowledge for 594 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,680 knowledge sake. OK, so here's where we've made a 595 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,040 compromise. What we've done is we like 596 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,160 insight. Yeah, INSIGH. 597 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,280 T we are on a podcast so got to be careful. 598 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,320 Podcasts. That's why we like reading books 599 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,080 about the Bible and what people think about the Bible more than 600 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,920 we like the Bible. It's why we do like podcasts. 601 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,800 It's why we do like devotional books. 602 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,360 Sorry I'm stepping on some toes. I know of mine included. 603 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,800 But we, we would rather read what other people say so we can 604 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,720 inter we we can evaluate whether we agree with them or not. 605 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:02,800 Right. Yeah. 606 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,400 You know, it's why when we're in a study and we're supposed to be 607 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,200 talking about like the scripture that's taught, we're talking 608 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,680 about how the scripture was taught and how it was shared and 609 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,960 which illustrations were used as opposed to actually talking 610 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,440 about the scripture. And I mean, this is just common 611 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,640 issue for all of us. And I'm just saying, what's the 612 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,720 title of this podcast? These are challenges that we 613 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,160 have to study in the Bible. And so don't settle for insight. 614 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,640 And I think that is a good challenge for us because I do 615 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,040 know for myself, like I have a tendency to be in the word and, 616 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,800 you know, be going through, I'm going through Joshua right now 617 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,200 and you kind of finish and I'm like, is it working? 618 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,920 Like I don't, which first of all, that shows that my approach 619 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,600 to scripture is like what I want to get out of it, right, Right. 620 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,360 So we got to go back to what you said earlier. 621 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,200 But then I do think that I have to come back to a point of it's 622 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,480 like, well, am I actually applying right what I'm reading 623 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,880 here? And so if I never take what I 624 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:04,040 read and like activate it into my life, then no, there's not 625 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,360 going to be fruit and change. And so then I think we get to a 626 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,160 place with Scripture where we're like, well, I don't really know 627 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,200 that I'm getting much out of this, but we're not really 628 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:13,560 allowing it to. Yeah, that's right. 629 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,360 And so think about how does that work? 630 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,040 You know, if you have a continuum and knowledge is on 631 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:22,600 one side and what we're shooting for is wisdom on the other, then 632 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:27,240 insight is just just near knowledge. 633 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,080 And so how do you move? Well, I put something into 634 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,680 practice and then I evaluate. OK, Well, so I trusted God in 635 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,040 that. I took a step of faith. 636 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,720 I said something, I moved towards someone. 637 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,800 I served him this way, I gave him this way. 638 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,960 I believed. I read whatever I did now, OK, 639 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,880 what difference change maturing growth did that make? 640 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:52,920 And sometimes it feels like I'm going backwards. 641 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,880 And so I'll take a step and I evaluate and then I take another 642 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,040 step and I evaluate and I take another step and I evaluate. 643 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,320 And it's almost like as a toddler learns to walk and you 644 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,240 just see them take a step and take a step and take a step. 645 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,720 And sometimes they fall, sometimes they cry, but they're 646 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,880 moving forward. But we're moving forward because 647 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,880 we're not content just to sit in our insight. 648 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:18,040 And I'll just give you this, the analogy to think about. 649 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,560 It's why everybody's so frustrated with the news these 650 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,120 days because you're like, now is that true? 651 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,520 Are are you giving me the facts or are you giving me your 652 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,080 opinion, your commentary, your insight on the facts? 653 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,440 And then when we're discipled by the algorithm, that's really all 654 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,560 that we're being discipled by is our own, our own desire for 655 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,880 insight and our own interpretation and our own 656 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,760 likes. And and so we just get fooled. 657 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,880 And so when we go to the Scriptures, you know, like this 658 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,280 is the news. Yeah. 659 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,080 This is the good news, yeah, this is the gospel, and it's 660 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,600 enough, yeah. And God has given you the 661 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:04,240 ability. If you just exercise a method, a 662 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:09,159 plan, a strategy, and then you also are honest about the own 663 00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:13,080 personal challenges you face. I mean, God wants you to know 664 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,239 Him through His Word. He wants you to be able to 665 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,719 interpret His Word. He's given you the power through 666 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,000 the Spirit to apply His Word. Everything is going in your 667 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,280 favor. And so we just have to put forth 668 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:31,400 the effort to meet this God in His Word, so that by His Spirit 669 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:36,320 in community, the Father can do the work that He wants to do in 670 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:37,920 this. Yeah, and it goes without 671 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,199 saying, but that takes patience. Yes. 672 00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:41,320 And it takes time. Yeah. 673 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,679 And there's a lot of grace involved, right. 674 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,239 And so those are all great. And, and just as we kind of wrap 675 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,800 up here, I mean, I feel this for myself. 676 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,639 And I'm sure that there's some other performance tendency, 677 00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:57,800 people who feel this to where, you know, I do my best. 678 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,880 I come to Scripture in the word. I'm reading, I'm doing some 679 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:07,160 studying and at the end of the day, after some months and years 680 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,360 of that, I'm like, I just, I don't feel like I'm doing it 681 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,080 right. Like no matter what I do, I've 682 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,720 changed my method, I've changed my approach and schedule and 683 00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:21,840 everything and I just never feel like I've, I've done it right. 684 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,080 Like what? What would you say for us in 685 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,720 that? Yeah, I think it's like if 686 00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:31,720 you're thinking about a friendship and you're trying to 687 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,120 evaluate all the things that you said and did in the friendship, 688 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,720 and if the friendship really loved you, if it was really 689 00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:43,160 relational, then there it's not about right and wrong. 690 00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:46,320 It's about it's about knowing that person. 691 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,960 And so when we come to Scripture with the desire to know God as 692 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:55,720 opposed to know about God or know about our life and how God 693 00:35:55,720 --> 00:36:00,160 fits in, things change dramatically. 694 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,560 And but then you're like, I don't think there is a right way 695 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,400 to do this. No, I'm not talking about wrong 696 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,960 interpretation of Scripture. I'm talking about coming with 697 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:17,040 the motive of I want to hear and see and experience God through 698 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,840 his word and let that give me humility and confidence to 699 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:26,280 change. What happens over time is you 700 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:32,560 realize that the Bible is not like some a book to be mastered. 701 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,640 Yeah. What it really is, it is it is 702 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,760 food and nourishment for the soul that we're to feed on. 703 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,400 And I'm a student and I want to make an A in my class. 704 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,200 That's right, it's not a class. When what you really need is you 705 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,800 really need daily bread. Yeah, you really need daily 706 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,640 bread. You don't need a Bible answer 707 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,360 man. You need a father who gives good 708 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,720 gifts to his children. And so if that is the case, then 709 00:36:57,720 --> 00:36:59,800 what you've it just takes a little while to get that 710 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,440 operating system of doing something the right way and 711 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,120 being outcome based out of your system. 712 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:10,280 But if you will just commit to the process of just saying, all 713 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,440 right, God, I am here, you are here, let's talk. 714 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,680 And so that means I'm praying that means I'm praying over 715 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,040 scripture. I'm praying through Scripture 716 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,480 and and really all that sounds super spiritual. 717 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,360 I'm just saying just be still. Yeah, be slow. 718 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:31,320 Be still, be slow, be curious, be courageous because your 719 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,160 application is really more about courage. 720 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,040 Application is about courage. And then just be honest. 721 00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:38,960 Yeah. And that's where the lack of 722 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,680 devotion comes from. Just be honest and say, God, I 723 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,720 am all about myself right now and I need to lose myself and 724 00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:49,720 forget myself and really come to you as a father who has good 725 00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:54,760 words for his children. And so will you be be present in 726 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,320 this in this time. And that should also be the 727 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,160 posture of our of our Bible reading. 728 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,480 But what I what I think is that study fills our reading. 729 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,520 Reading fills our study. They are not in opposition to 730 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,080 one another. It's just time with God in His 731 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,840 Word. Yeah, I think that's great. 732 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,320 That's super helpful and and it's really encouraging for me 733 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,080 and I hope it is for y'all as well. 734 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:20,440 I hope it just takes some pressure off and helps us 735 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,720 reorient our focus less on the knowledge and the information 736 00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:28,160 and what we can get out of it. But getting to know a father, 737 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:32,920 getting to know a person who is written as very detailed letters 738 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,000 for the relationship to get to know him. 739 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,840 So thanks MO for for walking us through that. 740 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,000 And yeah, for y'all. We'll put some resources in the 741 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,200 show notes. And like always, we just 742 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,280 encourage you if you have questions, ask your staff, ask 743 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,600 your leaders, ask the mature followers around you, and just 744 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,520 hope that this spurs on further conversations on, Yeah, what it 745 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:59,320 looks like for us to study God's word well and ultimately seek 746 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,320 his heart to get to know him better. 747 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,040 So we'll see you guys next time on the Grace Church Podcast. 748 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:05,840 See ya.