1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:09,440 I think that He holds that out for all of us believers that if 2 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:13,680 we are obedient in the Sabbath because that is something He has 3 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,320 instructed His people to do. Like He called us to be holy and 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,200 set apart and a part of that is Sabbath thing and abiding and 5 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,000 resting. He is going to be faithful and 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:28,160 good in that moment. Hey, everyone, and welcome back 7 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,800 to the Grace Church Podcast. I'm your host, Whitney Maynus 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,720 here with Scott and Zingo. Hey, Scott. 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:34,000 Hey, Whitney. Good morning. 10 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,520 Good morning. And in the studio today, our 11 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,160 guest is Michaela Sanders from the Harrison Bridge campus and 12 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:42,480 she's also on staff. She works with our students, 13 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,920 gets to help create curriculum like the hard question series we 14 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,440 talked about last fall, and she gets to work with our women as 15 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,000 well, amongst many other responsibilities. 16 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,280 But particularly her work with women is how today's topic came 17 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,840 about. Before we really dive into that, 18 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,480 Michaela, thanks for being here. Yes, I'm excited. 19 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,680 First time guest, yes, but long time listener, I'm sure. 20 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,360 Obviously, obviously, for sure. All right. 21 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,600 Can you just give us a quick intro how you came to Grace, how 22 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:12,760 long you been on staff, tell us about your family, all that good 23 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,240 stuff. Yeah, so I actually started 24 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,560 coming to Grace in high school. I was a Ford student myself. 25 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,840 I came with another family that invited me and so I spent about 26 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,120 2 1/2 years here in Forge and then went off to college and 27 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,120 after college got married. When we decided that we were 28 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:32,720 going to move back, we had a six month old. 29 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:37,440 So we moved back home to be closer to family and we, I mean, 30 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,000 we didn't even question where we were going to church. 31 00:01:39,320 --> 00:01:44,560 We came straight back to Grace and within months of being at 32 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:49,280 Grace and being asked to work in student ministry or to serve in 33 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,320 student ministry at the time, Christy Peterson was going off 34 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,280 staff at Harrison Bridge and asked me to take her spot. 35 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,040 So I mean, that happened in, I mean, 2-3 months. 36 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,520 It was very quick. So we have been back now for 37 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:05,800 almost 7 years. We're coming up on seven years 38 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:07,400 and I've been on staff for about 6 1/2. 39 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,320 Nice, and I've got some sweet kiddos as well. 40 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,000 Yes, we have 4 kids, so the six month old that we had moving 41 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,560 back is now 7 and then we have three under him, youngest being 42 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,840 nine months. Nice so y'all stay busy. 43 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,280 Got plenty going on. And then, yeah, our topic for 44 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:28,440 today, you gave a talk to the Harrison Bridge women around a 45 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,560 few different ideas, but you did a great job of putting them 46 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,400 together, talked about striving and abiding and Sabbath. 47 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,920 And we'll really get to dive into that. 48 00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:41,920 And certainly not just a topic for women, but how, how did this 49 00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:45,640 topic kind of first come up for you and why did you decide that? 50 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:47,440 I think this would be helpful for our women. 51 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:49,600 Yeah. So we actually had a prayer 52 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,240 conference first. We had a prayer conference that 53 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,280 was in the fall. And when we did that prayer 54 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,200 conference, we had a prayer wall as like a response element. 55 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,720 And we had every woman that came put up just prayer requests and 56 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,080 not even put their name on it, just in the prayer requests up. 57 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,360 And that way as a response to the end of the night, we were 58 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,560 able to pray over our people and our women. 59 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,160 And as I was reading them, I mean, it was just filled with 60 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,120 pain, heartache, suffering. I think there is something about 61 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:20,280 not having to put your name on it. 62 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,440 People are willing to answer that honestly. 63 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,280 So I just saw all the hurt our women were going through. 64 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,720 We personally, as a family had just been through a lot. 65 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,920 And so I was just looking at it and I just, I felt clear over 66 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:36,320 the next few weeks as I was thinking about that night and 67 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,840 thinking about what our women needed for the spring, I got 68 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,640 very clear on over and over the Lord just being like, hey, you 69 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,320 can't take them out of their circumstance. 70 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,240 Like you're looking for ways to relieve what they're going 71 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,720 through. When actually it is so much more 72 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:53,520 than that. It's not about pulling them out 73 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,800 of it, but it's actually offering them something. 74 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,400 And that's something being the Lord. 75 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,120 And that's really where through conversations with other people 76 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,680 and just through what the Lord was doing in my own soul, Like 77 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,640 this is a combination, like you just said, of abiding and 78 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:09,640 Sabbath. And I mean really, at the end of 79 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,880 the day, just trusting the Lord and what that looks like for 80 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:13,760 their life. Yeah, absolutely. 81 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,200 No, that's so powerful. And I just love the way that our 82 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,560 staff and our leaders are thinking about like they were 83 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,680 paying attention to what our people need and having 84 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,000 conversations and getting to see that reality and then getting to 85 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,400 step into it. But this is also personal for 86 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,280 you. You know, in your talk you 87 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,880 mentioned a little bit of just you're in the weeds on it and 88 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,880 trying to learn it as well. So yeah, how you just seen some 89 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:38,920 of those difficulties and challenges appear in your own 90 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:39,680 life? Yeah. 91 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,200 So I mentioned like we had just gone through a real tough time. 92 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,760 So about a month before this prayer conference, we had a 93 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,040 health emergency with our youngest. 94 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,080 So at the time of the health emergency, he was 4 weeks old. 95 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,480 And there, I mean, truly there was a period of time where we 96 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,960 did not know if he would live. And that period of time was a 97 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,840 week. But before that moment that it 98 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,680 the emergency happened, we knew something was going on. 99 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,200 And so we saw signs of all that. We were taking him to the doctor 100 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,040 and finally he had gotten into a specialist. 101 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,960 But between finally getting the doctor to recognize and take a 102 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,920 serious and the specialist, it was about two days. 103 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,080 And in those two days, and I didn't see this in the moment. 104 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,720 But looking back on it, it's just funny because I just, I 105 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,520 mean, having the house clean was somehow going to fix the like 106 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,200 chaos in my soul. Like I tried so hard to control 107 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,760 my outside circumstances and get everything to settle on the 108 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,720 outside so that the inside would be settled. 109 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:45,320 And I just felt about the second day, so the day before we went 110 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,440 to the doctor, we just had a ton of people praying for us. 111 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,400 And I felt just this overwhelming amount of peace 112 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,440 come over me to just stop to stop trying to control 113 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,240 everything around me and stop just trying to make the chaos 114 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:00,920 slow down. Because there was no, again, 115 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,840 there was no taking me out of the current circumstance or him. 116 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,080 It was there was something else much bigger. 117 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,920 They could come over me and provide that comfort that I was 118 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,320 striving for. And that was the Lord. 119 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:18,920 And so it was just so weird, like over the next 48 hours when 120 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:24,280 we go to the specialist, the the emergency arose like minutes 121 00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:27,000 after we saw this specialist and got some blood drawn. 122 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:31,160 I can't look back at that moment without thinking like, Oh my 123 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:32,480 gosh, the Lord was all over that. 124 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,320 Like the Lord just there was so many things. 125 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,800 I mean, all the way up to like Matt Kelly and Lee Austin were 126 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,960 standing in the emergency room as soon as we got the results 127 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,440 that our son was having a brain bleed. 128 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:48,560 Like I, I don't even know how he got there that fast. 129 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,480 Like, but like the Lord was just covering us every step of the 130 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,640 way. And it's just funny because now 131 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:59,080 looking back at that, I see how the Lord was preparing us, me 132 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,560 specifically, for once we got out of that health emergency, 133 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,800 the second week we were in the hospital, I was very alone. 134 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:07,560 My husband had to go back to work. 135 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:09,640 He had to go take care of our other three kids. 136 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:14,040 And I was completely by myself. And that became that room. 137 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,280 I mean, it's a fishbowl that it's like people can see in that 138 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,200 room. There's no privacy in the 139 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:21,600 pediatric ICU. There's none. 140 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:26,960 And I just sat there and I remember days of prayer, of 141 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,440 journaling out prayers of like, I don't understand why this 142 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,120 happened. This is hard to wrap your mind 143 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,800 around. I feel like I, I can't even, my 144 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,520 mind can't even keep up. But like, the Lord met me and 145 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,080 all that. Yeah, to where there are moments 146 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,760 where I miss that room, which is so weird. 147 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,400 I never thought I would say that that like I would never want to 148 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:50,000 go through that again. But the amount that I saw the 149 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:55,520 Lord in those two weeks, I mean, I could never, I could never 150 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,520 give that back. And so very personal to me. 151 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,480 This is what this all looks. Like, yeah, absolutely, very 152 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:07,080 real, very tangible and and in some ways applied in like almost 153 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,280 the highest pressure that you could get it. 154 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,680 And we and we do have a lot of our people who are living those 155 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,960 circumstances every day. And then a lot of times it is 156 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:22,280 just the day-to-day pressures and schedules and we're busy and 157 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,200 life, life is just hard kind of no matter how we twisted for 158 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,720 sure. So what did you kind of how did 159 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,080 you start on this talk? Like what were some of the 160 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,159 misconceptions that through that experience, you saw it yourself, 161 00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:40,440 You started seeing in our women and in our men about just our 162 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,240 time. And it's like how we're managing 163 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,040 our emotions in some ways. Yeah, I mean, I said it before, 164 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,480 but I got very clear and I I really, this was not me. 165 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:51,520 I mean, I feel like the Lord was very clear with me. 166 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,120 There's no, it's not about taking them out of the 167 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,680 circumstance. The relief doesn't come in being 168 00:08:57,680 --> 00:09:01,480 pulled out. And so as I'm like recognizing 169 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,320 that I'm like, OK, then where's the relief coming from? 170 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,840 And that was when like through studying and just through a lot 171 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,680 of prayer, I just realized like, it's not about coming out of it. 172 00:09:12,680 --> 00:09:15,040 It's actually allowing the Lord to be in it with us. 173 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:19,520 Like he's already taken their steps towards us being open to 174 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,640 him being in that with us and what he has for us in those 175 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,440 moments. I think what really stood out to 176 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,920 me though, is in a lot of ways I think we avoid doing it because 177 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:31,040 it's hard. Yeah. 178 00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:34,400 I mean, sitting with the Lord and just letting him move in my 179 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:38,640 life, like, I mean, that's hard. Yeah, it's easy to just be busy 180 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,040 it. Is it is because then I don't 181 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,080 have to process, right? I don't have to think about all 182 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,680 the hard. And if we can then exchange or 183 00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:52,160 equate, you know, striving and working to godliness, then that 184 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,120 just fits right in with the, the, the natural bent of our 185 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,960 flesh, which is to just work and work and work and work and work 186 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,880 and, and control. I mean, I'm, I'm, I thought 187 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:07,440 about the irony that we feel like alleviating the pain and 188 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,000 the suffering is the path to blessing. 189 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,560 And no one, we don't, no one wants to suffer and we don't 190 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:15,400 want to watch anybody suffer. But the irony is that we feel 191 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:20,360 like we have the ability to do that because we have so many 192 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,840 resources, right? We live in such a amazing, 193 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,840 prosperous country town in the world, resources at our 194 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,720 fingertips, technology, all of that. 195 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,200 But it, it creates this real sense of false security for 196 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,880 sure. And then this false perception 197 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,640 that the, the striving is godliness. 198 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,640 So you had a forced stoppage, right? 199 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,520 Yeah. What was your relationship to 200 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:50,400 striving before that? I mean, young mom, 4 kids, job. 201 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:52,480 I mean, what's going on? Yeah. 202 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:57,120 Yeah, I mean, it's it's hard not to worship productivity. 203 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,480 Yeah, talk about that. Yeah. 204 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:04,600 I mean like for me, settled for me is I have taken care of 205 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,760 everybody. I mean the family, the husband, 206 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,000 I've taken care of that. My house is clean, I've 207 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,360 exercised that day and I've done my job. 208 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,480 I, I mean, I, I work. So I, I've done that well, and 209 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,640 if I can hit all those things for me, it's funny how you can 210 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,640 sleep better. But then the ironic thing, and 211 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,400 even as I was studying for this, I mean, I had to be honest with 212 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,320 myself that like I all that did was wake me up the next day and 213 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,960 that same To Do List that I achieved yesterday. 214 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:34,560 Yes, it starts over. It was the same one for today. 215 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:40,160 And so it was a cycle. And if I couldn't hit all those 216 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,160 things, then I was a failure, you know? 217 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:45,920 So you had a scorecard in your head? 218 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,960 For sure. And so where's God? 219 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,480 Is God like the teacher that's grading you? 220 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,200 I think a little bit of that. I do, I think, but I also think 221 00:11:55,200 --> 00:12:01,160 I allow like how my, like, if my husband's happy with me or not, 222 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,080 or if my kids are being good kids, I let those be the 223 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,440 scorecard. And then I also let those be the 224 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:12,000 thing that like I'm worshipping. And so God is just like this 225 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,400 good idea in theory, but not something that I'm resting in 226 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,880 or, you know, using the language of abiding, like I'm not abiding 227 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,120 in. It's just like another piece of 228 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,400 the To Do List for me. And I think it's funny because 229 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,320 I'm type A, my husband's type B. And so I'm very much on the 230 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,800 structure to like, I like the To Do List and I like to get things 231 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,160 done. And so it's funny that I feel 232 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,600 like it plays out differently for different personalities, 233 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,240 right? So like God is on my To Do List, 234 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,840 but I would definitely think like the way my husband's been 235 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,280 is that it's a scorecard. And so it's just funny how like 236 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:49,640 that that plays out differently for a different personality. 237 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:51,080 What? What does it look like for him 238 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,160 to be on your To Do List? What type of activities are you 239 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,120 doing? You know, I mean, it's like, did 240 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,040 I get to the end of the day and did I have time to read his 241 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,360 word? Did I have time to pray? 242 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,960 And it's funny, like I, I've always my whole life, I've 243 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,400 always spent time praying before I go to bed. 244 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:15,240 And if I if I'm not careful, that prayer time becomes about 245 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,240 what are the things that I haven't already prayed about 246 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,440 today? Again, it's another To Do List, 247 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:20,960 right? And that's just some of how I'm 248 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:26,200 bent and wired. But yeah, I mean, I feel guilty 249 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,320 if I don't spend time in his word, if I go several days 250 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,480 without that that that weighs on me. 251 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,920 And I think it's more so out of the fact that I haven't 252 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,000 accomplished, but I feel like I should as a Christian. 253 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:43,480 Less about the relationship not being cultivated and more so 254 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:44,800 really more about you and less about him. 255 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,640 It's. Much more about me, which is 256 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,960 funny because I do think the American culture is very much 257 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,960 time is about me, time is mine. And when we view time as mine, 258 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:01,240 then we see it as OK, time can buy me things like time can buy 259 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,400 me success. It can buy me money in some 260 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,520 cases. I mean, more time equals more 261 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,560 money. I think it can buy us more time 262 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:12,080 with people. It can further relationships 263 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,080 like it. I mean, it truly is a currency, 264 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:16,240 especially in the American culture. 265 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,040 And so I just think, oh, if I just have more time than I can 266 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,520 accomplish all the things and I will feel settled. 267 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,280 It's about me feeling settled. And we talk about a lot of 268 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:31,200 different idols as a way of like self soothing or finding 269 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,960 comfort. And you know, it's whether it's 270 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:38,920 drugs or sex or even less insidious things just escape 271 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,160 like social media. But we don't really think about 272 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,400 time as like, oh, I can just if I can do all these things with 273 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,680 my day and accomplish the things that I need to, then I will feel 274 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:52,640 OK. And like, we're self medicating 275 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,040 ourselves even with our schedules. 276 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:56,880 And that the reverse is also true. 277 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,400 If we can't hold all of that together, then we are just like, 278 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,000 not OK, yeah, with ourselves, you know? 279 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,640 But that is, it's another category for sure. 280 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:11,040 So if time is not mine, time belongs to God, but time is 281 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,720 limited. I worship productivity and the 282 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:20,760 results in this kind of striving performance mindset, then how do 283 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:26,280 I go about turning, changing, moving into with limited time? 284 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,360 How do I use that time for good? Yeah, without the crisis. 285 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:35,640 I mean, the crisis brings everything to a halt, but like, 286 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,240 how do I do that in the everyday. 287 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,600 What did you. Yeah. 288 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,080 How did you lead? Yeah in. 289 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,760 That discussion, yeah, I think the everyday, I think you have 290 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,520 to be honest with yourself. I think we, you had brought it 291 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,400 up before, but I think some of the reason we avoid the 292 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,920 stillness and being with the Lord is because we're avoiding 293 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,680 being honest with ourself, taking inventory and being 294 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,800 honest. And I think we can't deal with 295 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,240 any of this on a heart level if we can't acknowledge the fact 296 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,240 that we have a problem to begin with. 297 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,880 Like we do have to acknowledge the problem and then we have to 298 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,280 figure out what our bins are. Like I told you, like my 299 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,840 personality has a bend. And so it's taken people around 300 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,120 me acknowledging that for me it's taken, you know, my I said 301 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:19,440 my husband's very different from me. 302 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,200 I mean, it's taken him calling me out on things of like you run 303 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,440 this family and you run yourself based on A to do list. 304 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,640 And that is what deems like you being settled or you being happy 305 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,120 or you being disappointed, you know, or stressed. 306 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:39,560 And and it can look very, can make you look very successful in 307 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,680 other people's eyes, which is where the self deception comes 308 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,600 from, right? Yes, which also I think is why 309 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,920 we are drawn to other people's issues. 310 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,920 Yeah, because then we don't have to worry about our own. 311 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,640 For sure, for sure, yeah, yeah. And that and I think that that 312 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:57,240 was some of the sweetness of this for me is that the Lord 313 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:01,280 like allowed me to see the hurting and other people and 314 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,360 that's what really got me down this trajectory. 315 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,040 But the entire time I'm just very, I'm getting very clear on 316 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,440 what he wants for me in this process. 317 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,640 And so even in talking to our women at HBI, told them from the 318 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:15,400 jump, I'm like, y'all, this is for me. 319 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,359 Like I'm just telling you what the Lord has taught me and 320 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,200 convicted me of and how He's just changed my heart in the 321 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:23,319 process. Yeah. 322 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:28,640 So can you explain a little bit? I think that a lot of times 323 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,560 there's tiredness and then there's like this deeper kind of 324 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,560 a weariness that you're talking about when it comes to striving. 325 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:37,760 Like, like we do want to be tired. 326 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,320 We want to work hard, we want to spend our time well and steward 327 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,480 it well. But like, at what point does it 328 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,000 really start to become a little bit more nefarious and 329 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,480 dangerous? Risk especially? 330 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,560 Yeah, because being tired is not wrong at all. 331 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,360 I would say with this idea of weariness, I think that it's 332 00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:57,680 something that is more prolonged over time. 333 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,160 And I think what's sneaky about weariness is that it's like 334 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,200 tiredness that is just compounding. 335 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,880 And at first it's not bad, but then all of a sudden you look 336 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,480 back and you're like, shoot, I am just completely worn out and 337 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:17,160 completely overextended. And so I think when we recognize 338 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,560 that we're starting to have a loss of will, a loss of 339 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:25,600 strength, that we wake up in the mornings and already dreading 340 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,440 the day, I'm just completely exhausted. 341 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,320 Because I do think, you know, like for me, exercise is energy 342 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,640 expenditure, but it fills my cup. 343 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,480 Sure. And I think you can get to the 344 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,480 point within weariness where you have worked yourself so hard and 345 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,360 exhausted yourself, where there's no filling cup. 346 00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:45,960 You are just empty, you know. Yeah, you've moved beyond the 347 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:52,760 physical, mental work and recovery to some kind of soul 348 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:55,840 exhaustion. And I think it's weird because 349 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:00,240 it mixes emotions. It, it's got this mental stress, 350 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,120 it's got spiritual stress to it. Your physical body starts 351 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:05,880 responding. I mean, I, I've felt for real 352 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:10,280 feel like people can get like physically sick when they're in 353 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,440 a state of weariness. For sure. 354 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,160 And we've talked before about the idea of chronic stress, 355 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,720 which definitely applies here, but the word chronic of like 356 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,440 it's ongoing, it's continuing. You're like, I don't know that 357 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,280 seasonally I'm going to get out of this anytime soon. 358 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,520 And even just I mean, there, there are certain circumstances 359 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,440 as well, if you're caregiving, if you're in a season of grief 360 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,560 that we're sure, you know, this, there's just a different layer 361 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,600 to all of this that we want to acknowledge. 362 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,680 And so, you know, those are those are separate 363 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:39,680 conversations. Yeah. 364 00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:44,040 Well, then, I mean, as with all things, we want to talk about 365 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,040 the Bible, talk about Scripture, any kind of rude. 366 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,680 We don't just want to offer insight or good ideas, although 367 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:50,960 we like to think that we have them. 368 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,320 As you were kind of studying and preparing this talk, like what 369 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,520 were some scriptures that came up that were really? 370 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,400 Helpful for you? Yeah, I mean, the first time 371 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,480 rest is introduced is in the creation order, which is 372 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,360 intentional and purposeful. So one of my favorite things 373 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:11,960 that I just as I was reading and studying that I learned was how. 374 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,520 The 7th day of rest is just so unique. 375 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,120 Only two times does God bless creation. 376 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,640 He calls creation good, but only two times does he bless it. 377 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,160 And it's one when he makes man, and then the other time is on 378 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,240 the day of rest. And just how beautiful that that 379 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,160 is, that the God of creation who didn't take time to rest because 380 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,440 he was tired or run out, he doesn't need that. 381 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,880 He doesn't need that. No, he took the moment to rest. 382 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,400 I mean, he was able to look back at all he had done in the 383 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,480 created order and he was able to marvel at the work that he had 384 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,960 done. And then what's interesting 385 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,840 about Genesis in the way that the creation account is written 386 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,040 is that a lot of scholars believe that there is this day 387 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:53,800 and night. There's this beginning and end 388 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,080 to all of the days of creation except for the 7th day and 389 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,760 stylistically writing it that way is implying that there isn't 390 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,080 really just this neat beginning and end. 391 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,640 And then the other thing for me, like I said, my personality bend 392 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,960 is 1 to get list done. God rested and creation wasn't 393 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,400 done. Like he still went on to create 394 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,160 a woman to create Even. So that's just so fascinating to 395 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:23,360 me that he was like, let me pause and let me look back and 396 00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:26,120 then I'll keep going. But I'm not going to pause or 397 00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:28,440 look back because I'm done, because I'm done, because I'm 398 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,720 finished, you know? The goal wasn't completion. 399 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:32,600 It wasn't. Yeah. 400 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,520 Work was good, yes. And rest was good, Yeah. 401 00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:41,720 And some of that is probably to set an example for us, and then 402 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,760 some of it is probably like the idea of enjoyment, right? 403 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:49,280 It's like I make good things and it's OK to enjoy that and look 404 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,240 at it, you know, so. Which was part of the creation 405 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,400 of Eve. It's like, Oh well, he's not 406 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,480 he's not enjoying life right now not good for him to be alone. 407 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,200 So let's let's make a helper. You know so. 408 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,760 And the practical piece for that for me has been like, if my kids 409 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,520 are always just To Do List tasks, like the things that they 410 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,760 need, if I'm only viewing my kids that way, I'm not enjoying 411 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,080 not enjoying them, you know? So I mean, there's a very 412 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,720 practical piece. Well, OK, so push it one level 413 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,000 more with God's on the To Do List, Yeah. 414 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,080 Then how are you enjoying him? I'm not. 415 00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:22,760 Yeah, I'm not. And I'm and I also don't think 416 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,280 I'm truly learning about him like I'm I'm going to scripture 417 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,920 and looking for things I think I need, like I need wisdom on a 418 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,320 thing or I want to learn about something. 419 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,080 And so I'm always picturing his word as A to do list in a way to 420 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,520 achieve something I want. Yeah. 421 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,600 And so like I, yeah. It's not it's bad, but it's good 422 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,680 insight. I mean, I am glad that he 423 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:48,400 pricked my heart around for sure though. 424 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,520 No for sure. What other texts kind of stood 425 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,320 out to you as you were studying? Yeah, I mean, I would definitely 426 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,440 say just learning about the Israelites being in the 427 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,320 wilderness. I think I was coming out of a 428 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,280 wilderness moment. I mean, I mentioned it, but that 429 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,560 second week of being in the hospital was a wilderness moment 430 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,200 for me. I was alone and I had already 431 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,240 seen the way that God was faithful and I actually started 432 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,280 listing out all the names of our nurses that just met me in 433 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,520 certain moments. And I have a journal full of 434 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,640 their names and what they did for me in a moment, 'cause I 435 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,640 never wanted to forget that. But I was just very clear that 436 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,880 the Lord had the right person in the right moment. 437 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,120 And I so like with the Israelites being in the 438 00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:31,000 wilderness, like God had given them provisions. 439 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,840 He had already proven His faithfulness. 440 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:36,080 But it's so funny, 'cause they got stuck in this cycle of like, 441 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,040 do I still obey? Is God still going to be 442 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,200 faithful? Because I mean, the Israel, I 443 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,280 can make myself one of the Israelites real easy. 444 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,320 Like there were young moms with kids. 445 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:50,320 There were Israelites who were caring for elderly parents, like 446 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,480 they, they were dads who had to protect their family out in the 447 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:58,000 middle of nowhere. Like we are, we are, we can put 448 00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,720 ourselves in the place of the Israelites. 449 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,720 And so when you think of them that way, you realize like, OK, 450 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,400 their disobedience isn't for all from the things that distract 451 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,800 me, you know? And so that was interesting, 452 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,880 just studying that and studying how they were taught the Sabbath 453 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,920 and why God extended it out to them. 454 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,120 And really it was, hey, trust me, like I'm the one that is 455 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:23,120 going to sustain you. And that's what he was trying to 456 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:26,240 get them to understand. But then I think Jesus is very 457 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,000 clear about that too in the New Testament for us and this idea 458 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:34,360 that he is the vine and that we are the branches and the hope 459 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,360 that was held out for us. And all of that was the fact 460 00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:41,600 that if I'm, if I stay attached to the vine, I may go through 461 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,240 seasons of weariness. Where when I gave this talk, it 462 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,640 was right at the like turn of winter to spring, which was just 463 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,160 really sweet picture of like you're going to have barren 464 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,200 seasons, like where you don't feel like you're producing much 465 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,240 fruit. And it feels like I just don't 466 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,440 have much life in me. You are going to have seasons of 467 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,560 that. But as long as you stay attached 468 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,200 to Jesus and stay attached to the vine, then spring is always 469 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,320 coming. And that is just such a 470 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:11,680 beautiful picture for us as believers, that even if we do 471 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,640 have those seasons, it is OK. But Jesus just tells us return. 472 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,360 Yeah, return, remain, stay connected. 473 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,080 And I mean and I think the word there is abiding talk a little 474 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,040 bit about how that flesh itself out. 475 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:26,800 Yeah. Yeah. 476 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:32,280 So, you know, abiding is hard because as I'm saying, hey, stop 477 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,440 striving, I'm also saying, hey, we need to abide. 478 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,080 And so there's work to be done. Yeah, what's the difference? 479 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,520 Yeah, I think that abiding looks very different because it's not 480 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,720 about what I can get from it. I think there are benefits for 481 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,960 us from it, for sure. But the blessing and the 482 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,040 sustaining and the faithfulness is coming from the Lord. 483 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:54,840 That's the source. It is the source. 484 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,480 Yeah. And so, I mean, I, I keep going 485 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,440 back to the hospital for us, but like, that was just so clear to 486 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:06,160 me that I had nothing to get us out of that moment. 487 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,000 I had nothing to save us from that moment. 488 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,000 But the Lord entered into all of that. 489 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,640 And there were just quiet moments of, oh, like, he, he 490 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,560 loves me. He adores me. 491 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,560 I mean, one of those moments was it was late one night. 492 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,600 It was dark. I was the only one up. 493 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,640 And I look outside and of the fishbowl that we were in, I look 494 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,240 out that window and there is a sweatshirt that one of the 495 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:37,240 nurses was wearing that said I am the true vine. 496 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,000 And on the back of her sweatshirt when she turned 497 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:41,840 around. That's cool. 498 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,160 Yeah. On the back of her sweatshirt 499 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,640 was the lyrics to the song talking about the goodness of 500 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,080 God and that his faithfulness and his goodness has no end. 501 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,960 And I'm like, OK, OK, I can't make this up. 502 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:56,600 I can't make this up. Because that's not like 503 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,880 Philippians 413 on a sweatshirt. Like that's very specific. 504 00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:02,720 Very specific and it was just the combination of the two 505 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,760 things I needed to hear and to know. 506 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:06,960 And so I think abiding looks like that. 507 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,200 I think that means you are open to what the Lord wants for you. 508 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,240 I think that means sometimes we're quiet. 509 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,720 I mean, sometimes I think it is. I think sometimes it's writing 510 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:21,200 in the car and a whispered prayer that you say. 511 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,520 I think it's just letting God be a part of the day-to-day 512 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,000 moments. It's not, you know, making an 513 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,560 hour to read scripture necessarily, but just being open 514 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,160 to what He has for you to reveal to you. 515 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:36,800 Yeah. I think one of the ironies is 516 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:42,200 that we think abiding remaining is very passive. 517 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,480 So we don't like it, but I would argue that it's very active. 518 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:52,520 It's requires diligence that if you go back and just read the 519 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,760 passage from John 15, you're going to see the word love 520 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,520 mentioned 9 different times over 9 verses. 521 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:02,400 So it feels like there's a very strong connection that John's 522 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,480 trying to get us to understand is that the love of God received 523 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,560 in US demonstrates in love towards him and love for others. 524 00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:16,200 And like love is active, love is hard, true love. 525 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,680 The way we think about love is, is more like self-serving love, 526 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,480 love on my terms and receive love and love the people that I 527 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,560 want to love. But like, love is hard. 528 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,480 Like it abiding through the sense, through the lens of love, 529 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,040 loving God, even when I don't understand, even when I don't 530 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,440 fully, yeah, comprehend what he's doing. 531 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:43,840 But like, trust, like that's not easy, you know, So, but you 532 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:49,280 know, it's like, we've got that. That's one option or this other 533 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,480 like To Do List. Is there other option? 534 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,920 And so the way I think about it, and maybe this is just for me, 535 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,560 but I try to think about it, Am I doing something that is 536 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,080 producing fruit or that's just being productive? 537 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,400 Like I want to aim not for productivity. 538 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,160 I want to aim for fruitfulness and maybe sweating hairs there. 539 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,760 But I really try to go back to the language of John 15. 540 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,920 Remain in me. You'll bear much fruit. 541 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,600 So then like, OK, well, what is the fruit? 542 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,480 Well, the fruit is not getting a bunch of stuff done as much as 543 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,920 it is love and joy and peace and patience and kindness and 544 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,000 gentleness and faithfulness and goodness and self-control. 545 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,200 And when I see people, I typically don't see or commend 546 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,520 those characteristics, those virtues in real life. 547 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,640 I tend to, I tend to see them for what they do, what they 548 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:45,000 produce and affirm that as opposed to the fruit in their 549 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,640 life. And so that's just been a point 550 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,760 of correction for me over the last few years and just how I 551 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,720 view people, how I, what I say to people, how I think about 552 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,000 others. And I think it really comes back 553 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,840 to how do I see myself with God and then do I see myself a child 554 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,240 receiving the Father's love. Therefore I'm obeying him 555 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,080 because he has good things for me. 556 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,120 He loves me. It's funny because in this 557 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,480 passage in just John 15, there's this crazy, it looks like it's 558 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,120 crazy when you read it out of context. 559 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,920 It says if you remain in me and what my words remain in you, you 560 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,680 may ask for anything you want and it will be granted. 561 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,560 OK, well, the To Do List productivity model is like, oh, 562 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,920 I just found a genie, like God's going to give me all my desires. 563 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,440 And so you stop and go. What was he? 564 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,680 What was he trying to communicate there? 565 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,960 Well, it's like, OK, if you're staying connected to the vine, 566 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:46,160 remaining in me, love me, receive my love, then your 567 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,320 desires, they're all conforming, they're all changing. 568 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,120 They're all moving into like God's will. 569 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,080 So then it's like, yeah, I can't ask because I have the mind of 570 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:57,440 Christ. Like I'm thinking about the 571 00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,360 things I care about, the things that God cares about. 572 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:01,360 And so like, that was just like a poof. 573 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,800 I was like, Oh well that really does put it and it's either in 574 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,920 one bucket or or the other. How I even take a a verse like 575 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,280 that and try to interpret and apply it in my own life. 576 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,920 So. Yeah, no, that's so good. 577 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,640 I mean, at the risk of counteracting a little bit of 578 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,360 what we're talking about, if we can make this a little 579 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,640 practical, 'cause we're talking about Sabbath, we're talking 580 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,960 about abiding, we're talking about rest. 581 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,440 And it's hard to figure out like what that looks like. 582 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:32,200 And I think that there's a lot of examples for us in culture of 583 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,360 whether it's self-care or just binge watching something like 584 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,320 there's there's ways to rest that are not what Scott is 585 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,240 talking about of producing fruit. 586 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,200 But what, what kind of thoughts would y'all offer in terms of 587 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,200 how do we actually rest? And maybe that's the the 588 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,960 productivity person in me being like, So what do I do? 589 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,880 No, it is, you know. That is funny, yeah. 590 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,280 I mean, one thing that I have started doing is kind of taking 591 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,760 back the time that I'm already doing things. 592 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,840 So even for my own kids, you know, to be able to model this 593 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,080 for them, is how do we take back car rides? 594 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,400 Like, how do we make those same moments intentional? 595 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,880 It's less to me about, you know, carving out more moments or more 596 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,000 spaces for more things and more about how does God just meet me 597 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,440 where I'm at? And I got to see that first hand 598 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,040 in a crisis moment. But I mean, I just believe that 599 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,080 the Lord can do that in your day-to-day life and moment by 600 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,480 moment. And so, and some of it is that 601 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,400 he has brought this all to surface for me. 602 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,600 And so I'm very aware of it. And I do have to take my 603 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:45,680 thoughts captive in moments where I notice I am letting what 604 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:52,520 I can accomplish be who I am. And instead of resting in who 605 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,080 God has created me to be and the identity that I have in him and 606 00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,680 I'm an image bearer of him. And so when I rest in that, and 607 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,400 I can take those thoughts captive and just be captivated 608 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:08,040 by that, then I can be like, Oh, well, like I'm God's creation 609 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,440 and he is my sustainer. He sustains our life. 610 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,400 And that, I don't know, that impacts every moment. 611 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,520 It doesn't. It's not carving out more 612 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,720 moments. It's letting him be in the 613 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,960 moment that I'm in right now, you know? 614 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,400 Yeah. I love that using the time we 615 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,360 already have and I think it's got to, it's got to be 616 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,480 scheduled, right, intentional. If it's if it's not something 617 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,480 that is intentional on your calendar, it's probably not 618 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,560 going to happen. And what I mean by that is just 619 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,360 some idea of Sabbath, whether that's a day for you or whether 620 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,400 that's an afternoon. And then it gets super 621 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,640 complicated when we try to make it Sunday in church because tons 622 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,680 of folks listen to this or serving and working really hard 623 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,160 on Sunday. And it doesn't feel like a 624 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,320 Sabbath. It doesn't feel like they're 625 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,680 resting. But you just got to stop from 626 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,240 your normal everyday work. Yeah. 627 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,000 And it's, that's the first step, right? 628 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:03,480 Like you just got to cease working. 629 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,000 So like going to church, serving, that's a different 630 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,840 kind. I wouldn't put that in the same 631 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,880 category because often times we leave that and then we just 632 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,159 start looking at our phones and we start checking our emails and 633 00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:16,920 we start looking at text messages or we start putting our 634 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,520 To Do List together for Monday. Like that's not Sabbath, right? 635 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,120 So like you've got, you've got to stop, cease so that you can 636 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,840 create some space to rest. And then I think in that resting 637 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,880 is where you're talking about Michaela is just really 638 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,880 embracing the Father's goodness and our true identity in him. 639 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,040 But like, I don't, I don't, it's hard to do that when I'm 640 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:41,400 working. It is so hard. 641 00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:43,800 Yeah, particularly if I'm not working. 642 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:50,000 Well, if I'm working for the, the, the purpose of, of, of, of 643 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,600 striving and I'm bringing God into, into my To Do List. 644 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,040 But if I cease working and I rest both mentally and 645 00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:03,280 physically, something about that scheduled reminder, it helps me 646 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,400 understand I'm not what I do, but it's who I'm loved by. 647 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,360 Like that's where my true identity comes from. 648 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,360 Yeah. And I think there is something 649 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,960 to the like whenever we go to rest, like am I still trying to 650 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,120 fix myself? Am I still trying to solve a 651 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,360 problem? Am I trying to escape from 652 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:22,960 something or dumb from something? 653 00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:28,080 Or am I bringing myself to the Father, asking him to come be 654 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,600 present with me and asking him to care for me and not, not 655 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,240 solve my problems, not Take Me Out of the circumstance that I 656 00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:38,040 find myself in? But just like, like Michaela was 657 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,840 talking about like that peace that comes, you know, whether 658 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,040 it's through prayer or just what, what whatever abiding does 659 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,080 look like, you know that you're depending on the Lord for all of 660 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:50,880 that. Yeah, and the and the fact I 661 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:52,800 mean, work is good here is correctly work. 662 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,680 We were created to work for sure. 663 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,440 Work is not a product of the fall cursed work is a product of 664 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,800 the fall thorns and thistles. But we were created to work, to 665 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,600 bear fruit. And so sometimes we get that 666 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,440 mixed up because we don't take a break from it. 667 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,520 So then it feels like a burden all the time, or it feels like 668 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,320 the only thing that I have to do in order to create goodness for 669 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,320 myself as opposed to seeing the glory of God in all of my work. 670 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,440 So when you when you take a Sabbath and when you cease, you 671 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,640 get rest and it prepares you to go back to work, you know, to 672 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,680 bear God's image and to create. And so, yeah, there's probably a 673 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,080 longer conversation in there around around the work and 674 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,200 Sabbath. But ultimately you kind of took 675 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:43,520 us down this path of striving that leads to weariness abiding 676 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,440 that should result in some kind of rest. 677 00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:49,320 And it seems like Sabbath is the gospel. 678 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,520 Hope I think is what you. Said, I mean, it is what the 679 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,960 Lord holds out for us that he is the Lord of the Sabbath. 680 00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:58,240 I mean, he took all the rules and regulations that group of 681 00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:01,640 people felt around the Sabbath and said, no, no, no, no, hold 682 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,600 on it. It's resting in me. 683 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,600 It's not all these rules or strict regulation. 684 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,360 And so I would say that too, like we've got to hold on to the 685 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,200 like the promise and the hope that not everything has to be 686 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,600 accomplished for us to abide. So when people say, well, I 687 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:20,880 don't have time for Sabbath, OK, well, God paused in the creation 688 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,680 order and we have to be good with, OK, not everything's 689 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,640 complete. But this is where my life source 690 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,160 is. My life source is not in the 691 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,360 things that I'm accomplishing or doing, which is what the 692 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,240 American culture would say is true. 693 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,120 So we can't hold that as ultimate. 694 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,840 We have to cause and rest and actually go to our life source 695 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,120 to be sustained. And all of that has to be so 696 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,360 rooted in the truth of the gospel because otherwise, like 697 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,640 our feelings will lie to us. Because for someone who's not 698 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,160 used to abiding or like you were talking about depending on our 699 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,840 bent, like I am very high responsibility. 700 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,720 And so when I go to abide, I'm like, I feel like I'm being 701 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,160 irresponsible. Am I being lazy right now? 702 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,760 You know, or it just feels like something's wrong. 703 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,480 And if I trust those feelings, then I'm never going to abide 704 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,200 'cause I'm like feels like I'm doing the wrong thing. 705 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,640 It can be like I'm sinning, you know, but like that is that has 706 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:28,400 to be counteracted with the truth of Scripture of God is in 707 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,640 charge. God is responsible and apart 708 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:36,400 from Christ, I can do nothing and God will never abandoned me. 709 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,480 Like I can be safe and secure here, you know. 710 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,080 So some of it is, I mean, we just have to know the Scripture, 711 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,200 we have to know the gospel and apply that to all of these. 712 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,240 Yeah. And I like I would even say for, 713 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,720 you know, you and I admitting that like our personal events 714 00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:52,800 are that way from everything that we've walked through over 715 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,720 the last nine months, the Lord has been so gracious to us in 716 00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:58,920 the way that He's just shown that like his faithfulness and 717 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,080 His goodness is something we get to experience. 718 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,840 And I think that he holds that out for all of us believers that 719 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,720 if we are obedient in the Sabbath because that is 720 00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:12,360 something he has instructed his people to do. 721 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,440 Like he called us to be holy and set apart. 722 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,160 And a part of that is Sabbath thing and abiding and resting. 723 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:22,960 I hold and cling on or cling to the promise that He is going to 724 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:29,160 be faithful and good in that moment, in the abiding, and that 725 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,560 He'll take care of all the things that I'm worried about or 726 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,160 feel like is going to fall to the wayside if I take this time. 727 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,560 Because it is something that He has asked me to be obedient in. 728 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,920 And I just believe truly that He will be faithful in that. 729 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,040 Yeah, Psalm 4610 is kind of ringing in my ears now. 730 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,960 Depending on which translation, it's either cease striving or be 731 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,880 still and know that I am God. I think that's what you're 732 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,240 describing for sure. Like that. 733 00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:55,360 That knowledge is not a mental knowledge. 734 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,720 It's an experiential. It is settling of the soul. 735 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,200 And, and sometimes that comes when we're laying in a hospital 736 00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:06,120 room and we can't do anything. But how? 737 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,200 What a blessing it would be to be able to get there in other 738 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:16,440 ways each and every day, so that we could understand. 739 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,280 And really know the Father's love and all that. 740 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,280 So sure, that's great. Thank you, Michaela. 741 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,080 Yeah, Michaela, thanks for just sharing. 742 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,080 And I mean, just telling us your story and being vulnerable with 743 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:28,880 all of that. Would you mind just praying for 744 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,000 our people and just that we would be people who abide and 745 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,120 just remain connected to the vine? 746 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:36,160 Yeah. For sure. 747 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,640 Do you have any father? I just thank you for all just 748 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,600 the work that you've done in my own life and just all the 749 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,120 different things that you're teaching me and our family about 750 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,480 you and I just pray over everyone that is just listening 751 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,960 to these words. I pray that you will just make 752 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,440 clear the path before them that you will help them to discern 753 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,560 what it looks like to make a biting a part of their regular 754 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,920 life as a rhythm in their life. God, I just I've watched you be 755 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,040 faithful and good and all of this with my own walk and in our 756 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,360 families. And so I just pray the same for 757 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:18,160 all of our people in our church. And I thank you for being the 758 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,960 vine, for holding out the hope that spring is always coming and 759 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:28,760 that when we do mess up and we have seasons where we feel 760 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,880 barren and feels like those desert movements. 761 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,560 I just, I'm thankful that you have always just had open arms 762 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:40,000 for us to return to you. And I just pray that you will 763 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,440 just teach our people that continue teaching me that be 764 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,040 gracious to me when I need to be to return. 765 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,760 And I just pray the same thing for our people really sings in 766 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:55,840 your name. Thanks again for listening to 767 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,760 the Grace Church Podcast. I'm so grateful to Michaela for 768 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:00,640 sharing her story and wisdom with us. 769 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,240 This topic is helpful for you. We've linked another podcast in 770 00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:07,920 the show notes featuring Pastor John Tyson talking about Sabbath 771 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,480 and rest. He explains more about Marva 772 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,600 Don's 4 categories of Sabbath thing, ceasing, resting, 773 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,480 embracing, and feasting. So be sure to check that out. 774 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,200 You'll never miss an episode of the Grace Church Podcast. 775 00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:24,000 Be sure to follow us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. 776 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,880 We would also love if you'd leave us a review and comment 777 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,080 your feedback. Let us know what topics you'd 778 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,360 like to hear more about and how we can continue to have 779 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,320 conversations that equip you in your spiritual formation. 780 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:35,520 See you next time.