1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,800 This is just a tool, right? But the bigger question for our 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,800 audience is what are the consequences of not remembering? 3 00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:15,160 You know, what are the consequences of, of, of not 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,560 remembering this God of faithfulness, the God who 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,480 ultimately provided Jesus to accomplish what we could not, 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:28,360 the God who is a God of history, who is and was and forever will 7 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,760 be. If we don't stop and remember 8 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,960 those things, we get caught up in our own story. 9 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:37,840 We get caught up in, in our own present struggles and lack of 10 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,600 perspective and the tons of consequences that can, that can 11 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,240 come from that. And, and and really remembering 12 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,760 is, is such a, it's a foundational part to growing or 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,880 growing our faith. Hey, everyone, and welcome back 14 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,840 to the Grace Church Podcast. I'm your host, Whitney Manus, 15 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:56,960 and I'm here with Scott Mozango. How are you doing, Scott? 16 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:57,840 Hey, Whitney. Good morning. 17 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,520 Good morning And today we are going to be talking about 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,040 something a little It was new for me. 19 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,239 I started hearing some conversations in our Com 20 00:01:05,239 --> 00:01:08,160 department and I was like that's really cool and I just want to 21 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,160 learn more about it. And so we have Donald Spann in 22 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,480 the studio with us today. He is one of our campus pastors 23 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,240 and he has been working on a resource with our Com team for 24 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,000 something called Seder Meal, which we will get into here in a 25 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,400 minute. But first, Donald, introduce 26 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,200 yourself a little bit. What do you do here and tell us 27 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:28,840 about your family? Tell us a little bit about 28 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,200 yourself. My name is Donald Spann and I 29 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,000 happen to be the campus pastor at Grace Church Taylors, which 30 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,720 is on Wade Hampton Blvd. Been there for about 8 years 31 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,600 now, actually, just last week made eight years and 32 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:42,920 congratulations. Yeah, that's awesome. 33 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,560 No, but I've been a member for 20, Halloween right now, 21 34 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,760 years, so that's awesome. Been a member here for 21. 35 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,320 And I'm married to Mary Beth and I have three beautiful children 36 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,560 who all go to Grace and they're here now. 37 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:00,920 That's C17. Eli is 16 and Landon is 14, so 38 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,560 that's me, the kids and all the people that we got. 39 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,160 Donald likes his coffee. Donald likes going to Kenya. 40 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,960 Donald is a great person to be around, so we're glad to have 41 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,240 him in the studio today. And yeah, let's get started and 42 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,320 talk a little bit about Seder Meal. 43 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,640 So this is a resource. It's going to go a little bit in 44 00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:21,280 conjunction with Easter and Holy Week. 45 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,280 And so, Donald, will you explain a little bit to us about what a 46 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,200 Seder meal is and just where did this come from? 47 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,240 Yeah. For me, the Seder meal is 48 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,760 something we started when we first got here. 49 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:38,040 Tom Fowler from the TR campus, yeah, he ended up from 50 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,560 Philadelphia, came down here and told us what a Seder meal was 51 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,800 and showed us. And we did it when my kids were 52 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,240 little. Then Joey Espinoza, who actually 53 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:51,560 attends the downtown campus, he hosted an event and Joey is part 54 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:56,600 Jewish and so and he gave, he did a Seder meal for us and a 55 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,320 bunch of young families and man, just the symbolism and the 56 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,640 things that it stood for was amazing. 57 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:05,760 So it always caught hold. And so then I have the 58 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,680 opportunity to do it for some of our high school students. 59 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:12,120 When I was working in student ministry and when I became the 60 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,880 campus pastor, I realized that I wanted this to be a big deal for 61 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,280 us. I wanted to expose people to 62 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,240 what it was all about. Yeah. 63 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,160 And so we're putting together a booklet. 64 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,120 And in that booklet, it actually has just some understanding 65 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,480 about what Seder is. And I'm actually going to read 66 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,160 from the very front page on what what it says. 67 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,760 What is Saturn? Why do Christians practice it? 68 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,560 Because the Hebrew word Seder means order, right? 69 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,640 So it is structured some symbolic meal that retells the 70 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,760 story of Israel's deliverance from slavery in Egypt, a 71 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,240 practice commanded in Exodus. Exodus chapter 12, as a matter 72 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,280 of fact. And the story of redemption 73 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:55,480 unfolds through an intentional sequence of foods, readings, 74 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,520 questions, and prayers. Now this is distinctly Jewish, 75 00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:03,160 the celebration of Passover. But for many Christians, we 76 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,480 observe Seder to better understand the biblical roots of 77 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,840 their faith and the meaning of Jesus's final meal with his 78 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,240 disciples. So for Christians, the Seder 79 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,240 becomes a powerful way to see how God's rescue of Israel 80 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,040 points forward to the greatest deliverance accomplished through 81 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,360 Christ Jesus. OK, Amen. 82 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:23,640 I know. That's cool. 83 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:27,320 So it is a meal. It is sitting down with some 84 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,440 people in your house, I guess, and you know, you got these 85 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,000 elements that you're working through. 86 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,600 There's an order, there's a structure in steps. 87 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,640 Why do you think that this is something that is helpful for us 88 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,080 and for our people now? Like what? 89 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,000 Why is this something that we want to OfferUp to our members 90 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,520 this year and just encourage them to think about? 91 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,360 Well, over the last three years, we've done it over at the 92 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,520 Taylor's campus and it has grown systematically. 93 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:58,840 And in that growth, we've seen people outside of that, even go 94 00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:01,320 to the outside of Grace Church that have seen it on the 95 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:02,920 website. And they decided to come in. 96 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,440 Yeah. And and so the first year they 97 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,720 thought it was just for families and young people because 98 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,120 normally we only do it in Camp Grace. 99 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,880 OK, Yeah. Well, we said it was for 100 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,640 families the last two years. And since then, man, it's we've 101 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,560 seen an influx of people coming in and having insights and 102 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,880 asking questions and just connecting the dots. 103 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,880 And so as we get through Holy Week, as once we get past Palm 104 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,440 Sunday, it seems like a lot of people outside of Grace Church 105 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,920 are looking for tactical ways for people to get connected and 106 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:33,320 to be able to be part of a service. 107 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:35,640 And so, so that's how it started. 108 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,960 And so we talked about it as a staff on how to make this 109 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,800 resource available for people to do in their homes more than just 110 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,000 having to come to church to do it. 111 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,560 And so the resource that we were putting together as a staff was 112 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,520 so that people have various ways to be able to fulfill this. 113 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,640 So they can do it in a small group with their Home group. 114 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,800 They can do it with those guys, or they can do it and invite 115 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,480 some other families in, or they can just do it with their kids. 116 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,400 And so that was that was the the purpose behind thinking about 117 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,400 how to put this resource together. 118 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,840 Because as we start to teach these young people more about 119 00:06:08,840 --> 00:06:12,200 it, and then we teach our adults more about it than just the 120 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,200 connection of who Jesus is to us in the Exodus story is just 121 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:17,920 phenomenal. OK. 122 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:22,640 So that's really good context for me because I was always 123 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,200 pictured it as a camp grace thing, which again, like that's 124 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,400 probably where we have the most opportunity for tactile 125 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,200 instruction. I know you lose that as an 126 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,680 adult, and I'll be the first to say that I really still benefit 127 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:35,760 from that. Love that. 128 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:40,720 So the fact that you you move that into more of the family 129 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:45,000 environment invited folks in and then now putting together 130 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,800 resource where people could do it in their homes. 131 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:52,120 I love, I love that even just the development of, of the idea 132 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,880 because I, I think this is one thing that the, the, the Jewish 133 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,120 people as they are examples for us in the Old Testament were 134 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,120 really good at remembering, yes. Yeah. 135 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,360 They would sometimes. Well. 136 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,320 Sometimes they weren't. Right, true, but. 137 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,560 That's part of how they were. Better than us though. 138 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:08,560 That's how they were. Yeah. 139 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,680 I mean, that's that's part of the irony, right? 140 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,200 Right. Is that their, their culture was 141 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:17,240 kind of set up around these feasts and festivals and 142 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,880 gatherings and pilgrimages to Jerusalem to remember these 143 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,720 unbelievable, miraculous moments in their history of which 144 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:31,120 Passover was the the centerpiece going back to Exodus 12, like 145 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,440 you said. And they're not just remembering 146 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,840 the rescue. They're remembering the covenant 147 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,080 that they formed at Sinai. They're remembering the 148 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,120 wilderness wanderings. They're remembering their 149 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,720 interest into the promised land. They're, they're basically 150 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,800 remembering their entire covenant history with God as a 151 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,120 centerpiece. And so then you might ask the 152 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,400 question, well, what does this have to do with Jesus? 153 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:59,040 Well, Jesus clearly explained that he was the fulfillment of 154 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:03,480 this Passover lamb dialogue, and you even see it in First 155 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,280 Corinthians 57. And so there's just, it's 156 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,160 interesting because we're studying Corinthians now. 157 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:09,800 We just studied Exodus. Yeah. 158 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,400 This is a great time to pull those pieces together. 159 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,440 Yeah. And I love the fact that this is 160 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:19,360 a tangible, tactile way to to do some, to do some teaching. 161 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,560 It's great. Yeah, which Donald can you? 162 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,480 Well, first of all, how many steps are there to this? 163 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:30,080 Traditional Jewish Passover is about 15 steps, but we have the 164 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,799 way we typically do what we usually condense into about 12 165 00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:34,760 to 13, so we're going to happen in 13 steps. 166 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:39,120 All right, so we won't make you go through all 13 steps here now 167 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,799 and we'll obviously connect y'all with that resource and you 168 00:08:41,799 --> 00:08:44,600 can go look at it for yourself. But can you just give a few 169 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:46,600 examples? We keep saying tactile, 170 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,760 tangible. Yeah, just a few examples of how 171 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,560 that works in kind of this paradigm, just to give people an 172 00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:58,760 idea of here's a practice that you do and then here's how you 173 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:00,880 think about it, and that's how it helps you remember. 174 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,400 No 100%. So what's nice is in this 175 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,640 resource that we put together, we actually have a list of 176 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,000 things that you need to bring and prepare before that meal 177 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,200 takes place. And just to be honest and real 178 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,440 life in a Jewish Home, this is about a six hour event. 179 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,960 And but no, but for our families, just to let them know, 180 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,960 like we've gotten this thing shrunk down so that you can do 181 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,320 it with your kids, probably about a 45 minute window, right? 182 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:27,720 And so and. Parents are grateful no there. 183 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:28,560 There you go. There you go. 184 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,080 But but if you were, if you want to prepare a meal and we are 185 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:37,320 like, look, you can order rice and beans and chicken and then 186 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,800 that can be your Passover meal. And then you can do the symbolic 187 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,880 pieces around that. Yeah. 188 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,760 And so Or you can be, as you know, ornate and do a. 189 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,280 Original as you want. To be yes. 190 00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:49,720 Yes. A little bit of freedom. 191 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,920 In this a little bit of freedom. In this personality into. 192 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,400 It and so the plate that you would prepare would have a leg 193 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,960 Shank of that would symbolize just the lamb. 194 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,640 But then there's other pieces like the matzo would be 195 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,560 important because as you're walking through the matzo and 196 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:08,000 when we when we would talk about communion for us, we would say 197 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,760 that like our matzo that we use, it is gluten free, right? 198 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:17,320 But it is unleavened bread without sin and it is pierced 199 00:10:17,560 --> 00:10:19,920 and it is striped. And then you have to break the 200 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,480 peace. So we get to take that matzo and 201 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,880 just the symbolism of what that means just reminds us of what 202 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,520 happened to Jesus on that Friday. 203 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,160 Yeah, right. And so in this meal, there's a 204 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,720 piece where you have three whole pieces of matzo, and then you 205 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,000 take two of them and you place them to the side and you work 206 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,800 through the meal with it. Then you take one of them, fold 207 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,360 it and wrap it up inside a white cloth and you go hide it in the 208 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,080 room. And at the end, you bring it 209 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:55,560 back and it is the dessert. And so I'm like, oh, God the 210 00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:58,040 Son, God the Father, Holy Spirit. 211 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,720 So, so you, you, there's some connections that happens there. 212 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,240 And so as you're reading through and practicing some of the 213 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,120 pieces here, you're like, oh, it's, it's an easier step to 214 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,320 step over and be like, oh, that makes sense. 215 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,200 Somehow Jesus fulfills some of this. 216 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,360 Yeah. Well, and just to put a couple 217 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,680 of just the verses, we'll we'll put these in the show notes. 218 00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:20,320 But yeah, when you think about John chapter one, that Jesus is 219 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,560 the Lamb of God recommendation. I mean, the reference there 220 00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:26,240 talked about the lamb Shank and then you think about the 221 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,080 prophecy that not one of his bones would be broken. 222 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,280 Yep, right. So you see that in John chapter 223 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,120 19, Jesus is the fulfillment of a lamb there. 224 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:41,080 And so the connections, if you're walking through your 225 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,560 eating, your touching and your teaching and even singing, we'll 226 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:49,120 talk about that in, in just a second, you can see how it could 227 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,520 really, really help make these connections, particularly for a 228 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,280 younger child who's developmentally, imaginatively 229 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:02,320 coming into these truths. So, and I even remember being a 230 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,600 little kid and kind of, you know, starting to have the 231 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,920 gospel like really fleshed out for me. 232 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,760 And I remember thinking like this would just be so much 233 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,200 easier if I could see God and I could see Jesus. 234 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,440 And, and sometimes I feel like that's an under talked about 235 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:23,920 part of our faith where I mean, faith is believing without 236 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,080 seeing. But I think we all struggle a 237 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,480 little bit of I just, I need something to hold onto. 238 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,360 I need something in front of me. And God actually does think 239 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,560 about that. To your point, Scott, like 240 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:37,960 throughout the Old Testament, he's giving them all of these 241 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,360 practices. And then later Paul talks about 242 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:47,880 in Romans, like the law is not for us to get stuck on and for, 243 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,880 for that to be the thing that we are like finding life in. 244 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,200 But all of those practices are meant to help us understand what 245 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,200 our sin is and understand who Christ is and understand how all 246 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,480 of these people, all of these pieces across history are linked 247 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:06,560 together because it is, it's, it's a complex, nuanced, 248 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,640 abstract idea, you know, to connect all of these things. 249 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:14,680 And so for kids, but very much so as an adult, I just need, you 250 00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:17,840 know, these tangible reminders. And it's true for communion. 251 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,760 It's true for baptism. We try to incorporate that 252 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,480 often. But also in the tradition that I 253 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,920 grew up in, that just wasn't always necessarily as much a 254 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:28,600 part. Well, and I think, you know, 255 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,600 tying these couple ideas together, you have a Seder meal, 256 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,040 which is really the start of of Passover, which was the, the 257 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,320 main holiday. You have Jesus with his 258 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,120 disciples in what was certainly a seder like a meal. 259 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,240 And and he's doing that very explained that you're talking 260 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,480 about. And when he is, he is basically 261 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,240 saying, OK, we've been doing this thing for generations. 262 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,640 We've been doing this for hundreds of years. 263 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,840 We're going to be doing a new thing in the future. 264 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:02,000 And the cool picture there is, you know, Jesus is the host of 265 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,920 of that meal, but then he talks about he's going to become the 266 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:06,400 bread. Yeah. 267 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,320 Yeah. So the host becomes the meal. 268 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,880 Yeah. And his blood is going to become 269 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,600 the wine. And so as he is teaching those 270 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,120 things, you can kind of begin to see this, you know, huge 271 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,200 transformational moment in history that he is basically, 272 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:23,720 you know, prophesying or alluding to. 273 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,800 You're not exactly the same thing as this Seder mill that is 274 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,280 attempting to do the same thing, which is make these connections 275 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:35,960 so that we can see the God of our faith is a God of history, 276 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,800 and he's a God of the present, and he's a God of the future, 277 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,760 and he's a God that wants us to know Him. 278 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,920 And all of these tools are ways that we get to know Him and know 279 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:52,240 his redemptive purposes. Yes, it's fast. 280 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,280 We just did Exodus a year ago about this time, and it's just 281 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,840 fascinating as you can recall and just remember all of the 282 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,480 things that took place before the Exodus even happened. 283 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:10,800 And so this meal did not take place on that first night. 284 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,920 It took place after they left. And then they got to recall, be 285 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,680 like, you remember, remember, remember. 286 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,560 Yeah. And so like, Oh yeah, that's why 287 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,200 they need to remember and that, and that's what this we need to 288 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,600 do a lot more remembering as as people. 289 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:29,320 And so and not just remembering of like the maybe good things, 290 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,600 but even the hard things because it also points us back to Jesus. 291 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:39,040 And so like the This is why for me doing this and setting up 292 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:44,320 some reminders not to be wrote, but reminders of what I'm doing 293 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:46,800 and why I'm doing. This Do you have some favorite 294 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,640 parts that you like to lead through? 295 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,320 Man. Better than most like yeah, 296 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,760 Donald size remembrances. Well, the, the matzo piece 297 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,280 right, is like fascinating for me. 298 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:04,320 And so there's a piece where you have salt water and you dip the 299 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:09,000 bitter herbs. It reminds them of the tears in 300 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,280 the brick and mortar and the things that they were doing back 301 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:13,840 in each slavery. Yeah, yeah. 302 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:15,600 They're like, what in the world, bro? 303 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,400 I mean, this is, this is real. And then there's a thing called 304 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,880 corset, which is an applesauce mixture. 305 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,280 And that thing is to remind them of just like how they had to 306 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,880 make their own, like we would call concrete, but to to hold 307 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,280 the bread together and all the steps. 308 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,920 It's just amazing because it recalls on what they were doing 309 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,040 tactically as a people for hundreds of years in Egypt. 310 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,240 But God's like, I'm bigger than all of that. 311 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,080 Yeah. And tying all those together. 312 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:45,160 Yeah. When I'm when I'm teaching this 313 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,520 live, like, you know, it's supposed to keep on the script. 314 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:49,000 But you know you. Know. 315 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:51,960 There's some freedom script, don't really go. 316 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:53,920 Together they don't. No, no, no, no. 317 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,040 It's called guidelines. That's right. 318 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,400 So, so at my home, if we're if we were to do this at 2 hour 319 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,920 window, might stretch the six hours because because we're 320 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,880 going to read and in in this guide and it gives us a little 321 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,680 bit more of like some blessings to say over and then also read 322 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,680 through. So let me let me just do step 6, 323 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,800 which is the unleavened bread, which is the beginning of some 324 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,640 of the pieces here. And so you're supposed to lift 325 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,920 them on some and say this blessing over the bread, right? 326 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,280 And so blessed are you, Lord our God, King of the universe, who 327 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,119 brings forth bread from the earth. 328 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,720 And then we have it. So you can say it in Hebrew and 329 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,040 try to get connected in that way. 330 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:32,440 Will you try and do that for us right now? 331 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:47,640 Taha Adonai elohim nay melek ha Alam ha MO tizzi lakim me ha. 332 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:49,800 There you go. I. 333 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,280 Think it was better than if either of us had done it for. 334 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:54,040 Sure. So. 335 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,000 Yeah. Just to give, you know, just 336 00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:57,280 kind of when people have an idea, yeah. 337 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,960 Yeah, that's great. And so when you go deeper, we're 338 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,560 asking you to reflect on God's God as a provider for both daily 339 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,360 bread and spiritual bread, and then discuss how matza is like 340 00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:10,960 the unleavened bread the Israelites had when they left 341 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,040 Egypt. See, the absence of yeast 342 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,560 represents the absence of our sins in our lives when we are 343 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,760 redeemed by Jesus. So I, I think the little pieces 344 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,200 that we're trying to help people do here, I think it's going to 345 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:24,840 be really good. I think it's going to be really 346 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,120 great resource that our com team put together. 347 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,360 And I asked that it could be a book. 348 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,040 We can take notes. So it's something that you can 349 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,160 remember and use the same book over and over again and you can 350 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,360 do with different family members so that it's becomes a little 351 00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:39,720 bit more of a tradition. Yeah. 352 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,240 And I think something else that strikes me as you're talking, I 353 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,800 mean, we've mentioned there's a good many steps you can do it in 354 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,960 45 minutes, but could take longer. 355 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:54,120 And we've talked on this podcast before about our difficulty and 356 00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:55,840 slowing down. Like part of the reason we 357 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:57,880 struggle to remember is because we're just busy. 358 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,480 And Easter usually doesn't help with that because you have 359 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,920 family coming into town and spring break was somewhere 360 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:06,920 around there and school and all those things. 361 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,720 And so I think that this is actually just a helpful 362 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:15,120 structure and get like many of the sacraments that God 363 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:19,520 developed for his people to just slow down, to sit and think 364 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,640 about something. And and that is a little bit of 365 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,400 our challenge to ourselves for y'all. 366 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,440 Just that you would be able to sit, you would think about 367 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,720 something, you would reflect on it. 368 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,200 And we just wouldn't rush to the next step. 369 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,120 We wouldn't try to get this done as quickly as possible, and even 370 00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:40,960 though we would be able to enjoy the presence of those who are 371 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,600 with us and treat it as a moment of community as well. 372 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:49,000 But it does. It requires the slow, unhurried 373 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,160 time together that forms intimacy with God and each 374 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:53,720 other. Well, I think the, the, you 375 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,080 know, this is just a tool, right? 376 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,320 But the bigger question for our audience is what are the 377 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,960 consequences of not remembering? Good question. 378 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,960 And what are the consequences of of not remembering? 379 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,680 This God of faithfulness, the God who ultimately provided 380 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,440 Jesus to accomplish what we could not, the God who is a God 381 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,320 of history, who is and was and forever will be. 382 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,080 If we don't stop and remember those things, we get caught up 383 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,640 in our own story. We get caught up in in our own 384 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:30,280 present struggles and lack of perspective and the tons of 385 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,320 consequences that can that can come from that. 386 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,160 And, and, and really remembering is, is such a, it's a 387 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,440 foundational part to growing our growing our faith. 388 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,880 And so I'm all in favor of whatever it takes for us to slow 389 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,320 down and to remember. And we have such an amazing 390 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:48,080 story. And this also helps connect the 391 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,080 Old Testament and the New Testament, which is one of the 392 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,480 things we've been trying to do in the last few years as church, 393 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,680 as we have really promoted reading through the scripture 394 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,280 and, and just kind of helping to see how these ideas come 395 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,760 together and how you know, Jesus and the, the new covenant is the 396 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,120 fulfillment of the old covenant. And so I'm thankful, Donald, 397 00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:08,720 that you're doing this and, and bringing it together. 398 00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:13,240 Do you still do it on the floor? Yes, yeah, yeah. 399 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,520 What? Do you do tell us why you do it 400 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:14,880 on? The floor. 401 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:18,560 So traditionally you would come in in the in a home and you 402 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,800 would lounge and you would lay down and you would do it at the 403 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,280 table at the feet. It's funny because we actually 404 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,000 had to do a tiered system last year. 405 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,360 And so we had all the kids and young families on the floor 406 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,720 because that's traditionally how it's laid out. 407 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,640 But then we also had grandparents show up, some 408 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,200 people from outside the community. 409 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,320 And so we we had, you could lay down on the floor and round 410 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,240 tables and we do it at the back of the worship center over at 411 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,800 Taylor's. And then then we have a teared 412 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,520 up where you can sit on the little kids tables. 413 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:52,680 We bring those in. Yeah. 414 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,840 And then you can sit in the little kids chairs with some of 415 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,320 the kids. Not even the kids don't sit 416 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:57,640 there. It's. 417 00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,440 Older adults it's tables place to be. 418 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,440 No, either. And then we have high bars for 419 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,480 the grandparents or people who've got hip surgeries and all 420 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,600 these other thing and they can't get all the way down, they can't 421 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,520 get medium down. They can get down, but they 422 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:10,600 can't get right up. They can't get. 423 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,200 Back up, yeah, I understand that's yes, yes, yes, so yeah. 424 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,720 And it's really cool. Just a little bit more 425 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,320 interaction in that way. And in this even in sector, 426 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,160 there's distinctively things for kids to do. 427 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,240 There's a part where they ask questions and so you take the 428 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,720 you take the youngest kid. So I just distributed around if 429 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,280 we have like 75 people to 100 people, I'll walk to each table 430 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,120 and I give one of the kids who can read the question to ask or 431 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:41,320 like so on. On any other day, we sit up at 432 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,120 the table and that is one of the questions, why do we recline? 433 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:46,520 And it is actually one of the questions that they ask and say 434 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:47,440 I. Love that. 435 00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:53,360 It reminds me, we did a video for Exodus where it was animated 436 00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:55,480 and it was a little granddaughter talking with her 437 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:56,440 grandfather. Yes. 438 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,040 And that is, but that that's so specific to Scripture where God 439 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,880 is like, remember these things and talk about them often and 440 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,000 remind them to your children and your grandchildren and your 441 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,520 grandchildren's grandchildren. Yeah, right. 442 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,040 And so it's a cute thing, but it is. 443 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,520 I mean, there's a spiritual discipleship that's happening in 444 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,000 that moment, which is awesome. Yep. 445 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,160 And then just what stories kind of have come out of this? 446 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,000 I mean, you've done a few things now with a lot of different 447 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,680 people. What, what are like one or two 448 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,200 things that stick out in your mind where someone was like, 449 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,000 this is really helpful. And this is this is how it 450 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,800 helped me in my spiritual formation. 451 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,960 Yeah, Last year there was a lady who wrote. 452 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:35,520 She came, didn't know who she was. 453 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,760 We asked people to sign up last year and just so he could be 454 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,120 prepared because Emily was running around ordering all the 455 00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:43,280 things. And this family showed up and it 456 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:48,400 was a grandmother and she was like, I had no clue that this 457 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,720 symbolizes this. And that makes so much more 458 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,280 sense to me. And that was the the light that 459 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,240 came on for me. The first time that I did this 460 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,440 was the light that came on for her where it just just gave me a 461 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,240 a better understanding of like, oh, OK, All right. 462 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:09,440 Like, I mean, like this is 2000 years before we even thought 463 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,880 about Jesus coming to the earth, Jesus, our New Year's coming 464 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:17,000 before we even had a right, you know, but for us to, to look 465 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,600 back at all of that and be like, Oh, my goodness gracious. 466 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,240 You know, when we're talking about putting blood along the 467 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,920 door, we're like, OK, so we're going to be protected and 468 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,760 covered. OK, So I needed to hear those 469 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,960 stories and then see it in a different light. 470 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,240 I had different glasses on to see like the trueness of it more 471 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,320 than just me reading it and and squinting to to read. 472 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,440 Now I've now that I got spectacles as old people would 473 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,440 say. And so like it made it made it 474 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:44,760 come to light a little bit better. 475 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,000 And so talking to other people where that happens to them, I'm 476 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,040 like, there we go. That is why we're doing this 477 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,000 thing. And then I'll relate it to our 478 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,600 last episode. We talked about just approaching 479 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,640 Scripture with curiosity because I do think there's so many 480 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,000 things that seem very random, even as, you know, you're 481 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,040 describing this guide and some of the elements. 482 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,520 And I'm like, there's apples and there's a lamb Shank and how do 483 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,160 all of these things fit together? 484 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,120 And I think that's how we read the Scripture too, where we're 485 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:14,680 like, well, that's just something that was old and it 486 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,560 made sense to the Jews, but like, doesn't really have 487 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,440 anything to do with me anymore. And I'm moving on. 488 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,840 And this is an opportunity where we can really ask the questions 489 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,040 with a childlike attitude and say, wait a second, what does 490 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,400 this mean? And then if we do that work, 491 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,280 then we see all of these connections. 492 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,040 Scripture becomes so much more rich. 493 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,760 We see the history. We see how everything fits 494 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,240 together. And I mean, those moments are so 495 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,680 powerful and reveal to us who who God is. 496 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,800 Yes, it's awesome. The beauty of, as you were 497 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,280 saying that I have a desire to want to learn and it was just 498 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,800 difficult for me just in reading in some areas. 499 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,320 And so there's other things you can do, you can listen, right? 500 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,440 And so, so I'm an auditory listener, auditory listen, 501 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,520 that's whatever. Like I learn auditorily. 502 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,160 And so it was, it's been really helpful for me to listen to 503 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,840 things and then go back and read it or listen and read it at the 504 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,320 same time. And it's a different 505 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,680 perspective. And so when I was in high school 506 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,000 and college, I'm like, how do all these pastors know all this, 507 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,200 right. And so then I'm like, OK, they 508 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,720 all went to seminary, whatever. And now I'm like, anybody can do 509 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,360 the same work and then we have resources at our fingertips 510 00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:24,280 right now. So even with concordances and 511 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:29,120 everything else, you have the opportunity as you read and look 512 00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:32,640 at the footnotes and then go back and then listen to other 513 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,400 people to be able to reflect and think for yourself. 514 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,120 And that's what we want our people to do anyway. 515 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,440 That's right. So as a pastor, that's what 516 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,480 like, I want our people to be curious about it. 517 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,080 And then I want them to Fact Check me because that means 518 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,560 they're doing the work. And if they're fact checking me 519 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,240 and they're finding out that I'm wrong, which I mean, every once 520 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:51,400 in a while that might happen. But. 521 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,360 But, but at least they're doing. We're asking, we're trying to 522 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:56,280 make disciples. And being a disciple means 523 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,400 you're doing some work on your own. 524 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,240 Yeah, that's. Right as we close one, the thing 525 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,080 that has captured my imagination and curiosity over the years. 526 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,320 I probably heard this about 10 years ago, just as it relates to 527 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,960 the night of the first Passover and you have this preparation of 528 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,800 the Israelites. This is the culmination of the 529 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,720 10 plagues and God is basically, you know, he's forecast today. 530 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,640 This is what's happening. This is what you need to prepare 531 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,200 for. You know, I heard this and it's 532 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,520 like, all right, let's go back in time to that night and we 533 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,800 have the Israelites who are inner mingled and interconnected 534 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,040 with the Egyptians. And so that fateful night, you 535 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:39,800 have an Egyptian house and let's just say they have their their 536 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,080 idols, whatever they look like, right? 537 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,240 Let's just say they're carved wood idols, and they're in their 538 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,480 house. They're on their mantle, so to 539 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,280 speak, right? And so they have their idols, 540 00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:53,680 and there's no blood on the doorpost. 541 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,440 So there's death in the house. And then the next house is 542 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,680 another Egyptian house, and they've got their idols. 543 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,720 And there's no blood on the doorposts, and there's death in 544 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,600 the house, and then the next house is an Israelite house. 545 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,080 But you know what they also have? 546 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,280 They've got their idols on the mantle. 547 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,720 They, they're, they're not perfect, they're not pure, 548 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,880 they're not clean, but they have faith. 549 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,600 They have blood over the doorposts. 550 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,120 And so there's a rescue. And I thought about, I've 551 00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:34,600 thought about that so much, particularly this time of year, 552 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,080 that Jesus didn't wait for me to just clean up my life and get 553 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,000 rid of all of the bad stuff and all the idols and, and, and to 554 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,320 make myself pure so that he would accept me. 555 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,000 It's the faith that that's why I need Jesus is because I can't do 556 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,840 all of that. And so just that picture of that 557 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,840 first Passover and remembering that kind of God, that kind of 558 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,080 faith, that kind of sacrifice, whatever we can do to, to 559 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,360 contend for that memory. And I think the Seder mill is a 560 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:10,120 great way that we can contend for that memory and drag it into 561 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:15,600 our presence so that we can just taste and smell and see and live 562 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,800 with God's people and really, really appreciate the sacrifice 563 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,440 that God made for us through Jesus. 564 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,200 Whatever we have to do. And I think this is a great 565 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,000 resource. And Donald, I'm so thankful for 566 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,120 just your testimony and years of, of doing this and keeping 567 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,320 this in front of us. Whatever we need to do to make 568 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,600 that Jesus real in our lives is is worth doing. 569 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,080 Yeah, that's so good. That's so helpful to think about 570 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,640 and we want y'all to hear us say that this is so optional. 571 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,560 You know, this is not mandatory requirement by any means. 572 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:54,400 And to your point, Scott, that it is not communion, it is not 573 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,200 baptism, it is not Seder meal, it's not the disciplines that 574 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,120 make us holy, right? Like that is all Jesus Christ 575 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,480 is, all the blood on the doorpost on the cross for us. 576 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,200 But these are things that help us to remember, help us to be 577 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,080 dependent, help us to make sure that our motives are right and 578 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,080 do the diagnostic check. Yeah, we like to say of how 579 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,440 we're thinking about things and so is this is helpful for you. 580 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,320 We will have this PDF and this booklet that Donald was talking 581 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,240 about on our Easter and Holy Week web page. 582 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,200 We'll put that in the show notes for you and we would just 583 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,920 encourage you to go back and listen to the sermon we did last 584 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,520 year on Exodus 12 in the Passover and just refresh your 585 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,920 memory around all of that before we go into Easter and just see 586 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,120 how all of these pieces start to connect for you. 587 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,320 And we're just praying that honestly, you would see a part 588 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,040 of the gospel in a new way, that God would just reveal something 589 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,160 to you that helps you continue to grow to become more like him. 590 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,720 But also just to have that relationship with him continue 591 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,840 to grow as well. So Scott, Donald, thank y'all 592 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,920 for being here and we will see you guys next time.