1
00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:06,400
Grace Church members, welcome 
back to the podcast. 

2
00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,600
I'm Chris Rivers one of your 
host and I'm really glad to join

3
00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,400
you for this special episode in 
our last episode, we heard from 

4
00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,300
Matt Williams on several ways. 
We could move towards the 

5
00:00:16,300 --> 00:00:20,600
scriptures and 2023 and at the 
end of our time with Matt, we 

6
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:22,700
had a chance to ask him some 
questions. 

7
00:00:22,700 --> 00:00:26,200
And quite frankly we just didn't
turn off the recording so we 

8
00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,700
chose not to include this 
additional discussion and our 

9
00:00:28,700 --> 00:00:31,700
last interview. 
So in this This episode I want 

10
00:00:31,700 --> 00:00:35,200
to share his answers to 
questions from that time on 

11
00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,300
things like how Grace Church 
decides on what series to teach 

12
00:00:39,300 --> 00:00:42,600
why the use of the New Living 
Translation and his thoughts on 

13
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,500
developing leaders and a whole 
lot more. 

14
00:00:44,900 --> 00:00:48,800
So I hope you enjoy this special
Q&A episode with Matt Williams. 

15
00:00:48,900 --> 00:00:52,200
Let's jump into it. 
Mack one of the questions that 

16
00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,500
comes from a lot of folks is 
they want to know how do we 

17
00:00:54,500 --> 00:00:57,300
decide the series. 
The Books of the Bible in the 

18
00:00:57,300 --> 00:00:59,500
series that we're going to teach
as a jerk. 

19
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:05,300
I go far away to a mountain and 
I pray and God tells me honestly

20
00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,500
some of it is a simple as we 
were in the New Testament. 

21
00:01:09,500 --> 00:01:11,500
So now we're going to pick 
something in the Old Testament, 

22
00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:13,100
the Old Testament. 
Now we're gonna be some of the 

23
00:01:13,100 --> 00:01:16,800
New Testament and that is real 
rudimentary on top of that. 

24
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,300
We are looking at what we've 
been teaching and what would be 

25
00:01:20,300 --> 00:01:21,900
different. 
And what we've been teaching. 

26
00:01:22,700 --> 00:01:25,300
And so and I'm saying all that 
because it really is true. 

27
00:01:25,300 --> 00:01:28,900
I mean, but then the ultimate 
grid as we're looking at and I 

28
00:01:28,908 --> 00:01:32,000
said this somewhere recently, 
but that we look at what is 

29
00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,900
wrong in the culture? 
And how is our church following 

30
00:01:36,300 --> 00:01:40,500
the culture, And what do the 
scriptures say about that. 

31
00:01:40,700 --> 00:01:43,000
And then what book of the Bible 
would help us do it that the 

32
00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,400
most, you know, and there are 
some you think about the book of

33
00:01:46,408 --> 00:01:49,100
Hebrews, how difficult that is 
to study? 

34
00:01:49,100 --> 00:01:52,200
And then to try to teach, 
especially in modern culture but

35
00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,900
when you think about how 
self-reliant we become you like 

36
00:01:55,900 --> 00:01:57,300
with this book, would speak to 
that. 

37
00:01:57,300 --> 00:01:59,600
We have a mediator. 
We got to have intercessor, we 

38
00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,100
are not good on our own and 
that's what we're doing. 

39
00:02:02,100 --> 00:02:05,100
We're looking at what's broken. 
What seems to be the most 

40
00:02:05,100 --> 00:02:07,700
profoundly broken thing about 
our church right now? 

41
00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,400
And folks right now and then how
do with the scripture speak to 

42
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,100
that? 
And then we just we want to say 

43
00:02:14,300 --> 00:02:18,100
we don't want to back away. 
We want to say, well God's been 

44
00:02:18,100 --> 00:02:20,200
speaking and we hadn't been 
listening. 

45
00:02:20,500 --> 00:02:23,500
Well, this is our shot, let's 
try to teach it and listen, 

46
00:02:23,500 --> 00:02:24,500
let's do it. 
Let's listen. 

47
00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,400
So recently, we did the Book of 
Ecclesiastes. 

48
00:02:27,500 --> 00:02:31,100
So what was the problem that 
came up and the problem in the 

49
00:02:31,100 --> 00:02:32,300
culture that our church was 
file? 

50
00:02:32,300 --> 00:02:34,000
How did you get to that as a 
team? 

51
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,200
I think Ecclesiastes comes off 
the heels of With. 

52
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:44,200
And we saw during covid on a 
bunch of levels in a bunch of 

53
00:02:44,208 --> 00:02:49,900
ways that we are people who have
Berry much as people who say, 

54
00:02:49,900 --> 00:02:52,200
they believe in Jesus and say 
that we belong to another 

55
00:02:52,208 --> 00:02:56,500
kingdom is that we have in so 
many ways over identified with 

56
00:02:56,500 --> 00:03:01,200
this Earthly Kingdom. 
And it might be my safety, my 

57
00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:07,100
security, my significance, my 
political party, my American is 

58
00:03:07,100 --> 00:03:13,000
them, This country Traditional 
Values, My Religion be, we'll 

59
00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,100
just over identified with what 
it means to be a part of this 

60
00:03:16,100 --> 00:03:19,400
Kingdom. 
And Ecclesiastes is an atomic 

61
00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:24,400
bomb that destroys my 
identification with this world. 

62
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,700
He just takes you to the end of 
the line, every on every single 

63
00:03:28,700 --> 00:03:31,900
issue that might be important to
you, he drags you to the front 

64
00:03:31,900 --> 00:03:34,300
of the line and goes, look, this
is the line you're standing in. 

65
00:03:34,300 --> 00:03:36,600
This is, this is where that's 
going to end. 

66
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,700
This is how This ends for you if
you stay in this line. 

67
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,600
And so, you need to get out of 
that line and get involved with 

68
00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,600
God's kingdom and something 
that's bigger, more 

69
00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,700
Transcendent, its Eternal. 
And that that's a perfect 

70
00:03:47,700 --> 00:03:50,300
example of how we kind of work 
do that. 

71
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,100
Why do we use the New Living 
Translation? 

72
00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:58,100
We were using the nasdaq-100 
five. 

73
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,900
Obviously before the latest one 
came out 2020 and I love that 

74
00:04:02,900 --> 00:04:06,400
translation. 
It's what I cut my teeth on the 

75
00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,400
way it represents. 
It's when I studied, Greek, and 

76
00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,400
Hebrew. 
And Seminary, I know how the 

77
00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,300
words line up. 
It just makes sense to me. 

78
00:04:13,300 --> 00:04:18,300
It's so good, but it is a little
formal in places, and it does 

79
00:04:18,300 --> 00:04:23,900
use words that are not common in
current English American 

80
00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:27,900
English, and I felt like I was 
standing on stage explaining the

81
00:04:27,900 --> 00:04:31,900
English, some of the phrasings, 
the way commas were used, the 

82
00:04:31,900 --> 00:04:35,500
way sentences were structured or
words that are not common. 

83
00:04:35,500 --> 00:04:37,700
I felt like I was, it was 
explaining the English. 

84
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,800
English. 
And so the New Living Bible was 

85
00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,400
a paraphrase that was been 
existence for a long time and 

86
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,800
then like 95 or somewhere around
there they upgraded to a 

87
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,500
translation so the new instantly
Living Translation. 

88
00:04:50,500 --> 00:04:52,800
So there's a difference between 
a paraphrase in Translation. 

89
00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:57,800
So I checked on it, good 
scholarship, every translation 

90
00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,800
has strengths, every translation
has weaknesses, but I felt like 

91
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,500
a ten-year-old could read the 
NLT and be like, yeah, I get it 

92
00:05:05,900 --> 00:05:08,400
15 year old could read it be 
like Yeah, I pretty much 

93
00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,400
understand it a 25 year old. 
He's never been in church, could

94
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,600
read that and be like, yeah, I 
mean I don't believe it, but I 

95
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,900
understand it, you know? 
And I just felt like I could 

96
00:05:16,900 --> 00:05:22,600
stand on stage and we could read
the English together and if 

97
00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:27,300
there was something more 
technical like a phrase be made 

98
00:05:27,300 --> 00:05:31,300
right with God, I could say now 
you're older translations, use 

99
00:05:31,300 --> 00:05:35,600
the word reconcile and I could 
put reconcile on the screen. 

100
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,900
Have your sins paid for it now 
the Older translations. 

101
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,800
The NLT says, have your sins 
paid for the older translation? 

102
00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,300
Some of those will say 
redemption. 

103
00:05:43,300 --> 00:05:45,200
You were redeemed. 
I could write that on the 

104
00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,800
screen, I could talk about. 
That's what this means. 

105
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,200
If you ever see the word 
redeemed we could do both. 

106
00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,200
I felt like when I was working 
with the more wouldn't 

107
00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,100
translation I couldn't do both. 
I was always having to explain 

108
00:05:55,100 --> 00:05:58,300
the other way and it was easier 
to explain more technical than 

109
00:05:58,300 --> 00:06:03,000
it was to just take a step back 
that happened at the time went 

110
00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,400
and met with the church in 
Florida. 

111
00:06:04,500 --> 00:06:07,900
And we were putting all our 
verses on the screen and This 

112
00:06:07,900 --> 00:06:09,500
guy didn't know me. 
It was executive. 

113
00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:11,300
Pastor of that church. 
He goes, hey, I hear you. 

114
00:06:11,300 --> 00:06:12,400
Put all your verses on the 
screen. 

115
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:13,600
I was like, I don't know how you
would have heard that. 

116
00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,500
But yeah, and he goes, I want to
encourage you not to do that. 

117
00:06:16,900 --> 00:06:21,600
I want to encourage you to make 
people bring Bibles and look at 

118
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,000
their Bibles and learn how to 
look stuff up and you can put 

119
00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,400
verses on screen some but I just
want to encourage you to think 

120
00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,000
about that. 
I was like you think by telling 

121
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:32,600
people to bring Bibles to 
church? 

122
00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,700
They're going to actually do 
that and then after church, 

123
00:06:34,700 --> 00:06:39,100
they're going to read them. 
And he guess I don't know he 

124
00:06:39,108 --> 00:06:42,800
goes, but I know if you keep 
them on the screen, they're not 

125
00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,900
good point. 
And I was like, I rode back on 

126
00:06:45,900 --> 00:06:47,800
the plane thinking, I could not 
get out of my head. 

127
00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,600
So I came back and I said, all 
right, we need about six 

128
00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,200
thousand dollars, buy Bibles, we
put Bibles in the pews, I stood 

129
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,300
up and told people to do, you 
need a Bible? 

130
00:06:55,300 --> 00:06:58,000
Take a Bible, it was in LT. 
Take it home. 

131
00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,100
I go my kids bedrooms every five
or six bottles. 

132
00:07:00,100 --> 00:07:01,400
My kids are the biggest thieves 
in the world. 

133
00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:02,800
They were stealing. 
I was like take the ball back to

134
00:07:02,808 --> 00:07:04,900
church. 
I just forgot and so it was 

135
00:07:04,900 --> 00:07:07,000
great. 
People were actually We bringing

136
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:08,400
Bibles. 
They were picking them up. 

137
00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,300
They were opening them. 
They were getting a feel of what

138
00:07:10,300 --> 00:07:11,600
I'd be like. 
Hey, look in the look in the 

139
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,800
concordance. 
You don't know where Zach right?

140
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,300
You don't know where Isaiah is. 
That's fine. 

141
00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,300
You know, just look it up and 
and and that was part of that 

142
00:07:18,300 --> 00:07:21,300
whole time where we went to an 
easier translation but we also 

143
00:07:21,300 --> 00:07:23,800
put more pressure on people to 
engage it. 

144
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:25,900
Right? 
And now, you know, when the 

145
00:07:25,900 --> 00:07:29,500
shift happened with iPads and 
phones that's no problem for us.

146
00:07:29,500 --> 00:07:31,900
That's going to, it's not going 
to be either or it's going to be

147
00:07:31,908 --> 00:07:34,600
both an and that's that's even 
easier to even easier to find 

148
00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:35,700
the book into looking at 
Gordon's. 

149
00:07:35,700 --> 00:07:37,700
Yeah. 
Been really refreshing to see 

150
00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:40,100
people here, people from other 
Traditions that come. 

151
00:07:40,100 --> 00:07:43,700
And they're like, I understand, 
I like this. 

152
00:07:43,700 --> 00:07:45,100
This is great. 
Where did you get this? 

153
00:07:45,100 --> 00:07:48,300
Is this a, they'll say, is this,
okay, that's right. 

154
00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,000
Is this legal get out of it? 
And then, we can, the rumor is 

155
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,200
that Travelers? 
Rest has the best Bibles, they 

156
00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,600
have amazing, but I have five or
six in my house from Travelers, 

157
00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,600
Rest, Mathieu, you work. 
Now, with a lot of younger 

158
00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:07,300
teachers, what are you trying to
help them develop as as you kind

159
00:08:07,300 --> 00:08:14,200
of reflect on 30 years, teaching
the Bible, You know, it's a lot 

160
00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:19,200
of fun as a lot of work you when
you're working with a young 

161
00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,900
teacher, you know, the first 
thing for them is do they want 

162
00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:28,500
to do this and some a lot of 
times they think they do and 

163
00:08:28,500 --> 00:08:31,500
then when they get into it they 
realize that they don't we just 

164
00:08:31,500 --> 00:08:34,799
fine, you know. 
So helping someone figure out is

165
00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:37,600
this what I really want to get 
my time too because it takes 

166
00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:42,600
more time than you think and 
it's not just oil is super 

167
00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,400
emotional. 
It's a super emotional 

168
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:50,000
experience and that's 
complicated for all of us. 

169
00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,800
I mean, if you're emotionally 
available as a person, then how 

170
00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,900
do you rein that in and not 
become self-indulgent? 

171
00:08:55,900 --> 00:08:58,200
And always talking about what 
you feel in front of people, if 

172
00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:02,100
you're more stoic like, I am or 
was and still am. 

173
00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,100
Then it's hard to accept, how do
you access those feelings? 

174
00:09:06,100 --> 00:09:09,400
You have access to them and to 
share them with other people how

175
00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,700
much how far. 
And so, you You're helping a guy

176
00:09:12,700 --> 00:09:14,700
discerns, this way. 
He want to be a part of, or 

177
00:09:14,700 --> 00:09:15,500
young lady. 
Is this? 

178
00:09:15,500 --> 00:09:18,300
What she really wants to do? 
And then here's all the work 

179
00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:21,000
that it takes, here's how much 
time you have to spend alone. 

180
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,100
You have to spend a significant 
amount of your life alone. 

181
00:09:24,700 --> 00:09:28,600
Alone, Reading Alone, studying 
alone, thinking, and half the 

182
00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,800
job is learning how to 
understand the Bible. 

183
00:09:31,300 --> 00:09:34,400
And then the other half of the 
job is learning how to present 

184
00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,600
it to other people so that they 
want to hear it. 

185
00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,500
And so most folks who get in 
this game, really want to study 

186
00:09:41,700 --> 00:09:45,300
Study but they don't really 
enjoy the process of making it 

187
00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:49,200
accessible to other people. 
And so, finding that odd young 

188
00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,400
man or young woman, who wants to
study, who wants to be alone to 

189
00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,600
think and reflect, who wants to 
dig down and find the principles

190
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,800
and the illustrations and the 
applications that they can share

191
00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,100
with other people that cause the
scriptures to come alive to 

192
00:10:04,100 --> 00:10:06,500
them. 
That is not real common. 

193
00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:10,800
So then when you find that 
person and you're, you're having

194
00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,500
to give, they have to have 
Certain number of reps so you 

195
00:10:13,500 --> 00:10:16,000
got to get them on stage, you 
got to get them into a Bible 

196
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,600
study, you got to get them 
teaching student ministry, 

197
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,200
that's an easy place to go, and 
then you're having to give real 

198
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,700
time feedback and you know, 
we're on the student Retreats 

199
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,300
and when it's over, we're 
Gathering up. 

200
00:10:26,300 --> 00:10:28,800
And we're like, okay, that was 
super confusing. 

201
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,200
I mean, it was all good and then
you got to this thing and I 

202
00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,200
think your illustration kind of 
contradicted your point and 

203
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:36,900
you're like, oh my gosh, I can't
leave it to that. 

204
00:10:36,900 --> 00:10:39,100
I was like, yeah, so it's okay, 
it's okay, sorry because we're 

205
00:10:39,100 --> 00:10:41,300
all so fragile, you know, I want
to hear good. 

206
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,700
Back, I think I want to hear 
negative feedback but I really 

207
00:10:43,700 --> 00:10:46,400
don't because it makes me feel 
so exposed and so vulnerable. 

208
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,800
So, it is this weird exercise 
and intellectual growth, 

209
00:10:50,900 --> 00:10:54,400
emotional growth, Peggy Noonan 
who wrote speeches for? 

210
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,800
Ronald Reagan would say the art 
of public speaking is becoming 

211
00:10:58,100 --> 00:11:01,000
more self-aware and less 
self-conscious all the same time

212
00:11:01,100 --> 00:11:03,500
and that is true. 
This is who I am. 

213
00:11:03,500 --> 00:11:06,000
This is what I think about this 
passage is what I think God 

214
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,400
saying that's how it makes me 
feel. 

215
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,200
I wanted to tell makes you feel 
that way and at the same time 

216
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,100
not being super self-conscious. 
Fight, these people are now 

217
00:11:14,100 --> 00:11:17,000
looking into my life going. 
He's really weird. 

218
00:11:17,500 --> 00:11:21,500
Like he likes the Deer Hunter. 
He likes to pump gas this way 

219
00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:24,000
because whenever you're giving 
illustrations, you're revealing 

220
00:11:24,900 --> 00:11:27,400
who you are, and what your life 
is, you being very vulnerable. 

221
00:11:27,900 --> 00:11:32,500
So, it is a complicated little 
process, and but God is raising 

222
00:11:32,500 --> 00:11:34,700
up new people to communicate all
the time. 

223
00:11:34,900 --> 00:11:37,100
And it's a joy to watch them 
learn and watch them, get 

224
00:11:37,100 --> 00:11:39,300
better. 
And, and there is this spiritual

225
00:11:39,300 --> 00:11:42,300
component where God just does 
something and There's this human

226
00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:45,500
contribution that we make, where
you have to work, really hard to

227
00:11:45,500 --> 00:11:48,800
get to what the point is and to 
make it available to people. 

228
00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:55,000
So why is plurality of teaching 
important for us is the church 

229
00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:01,300
in the beginning, it was 
important because we believed it

230
00:12:01,300 --> 00:12:05,000
was important to not just hear 
the scripture sifted through one

231
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,600
personality that this 
personality was really helpful. 

232
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,300
Say mine, this other personality
That's going to be helpful to 

233
00:12:13,300 --> 00:12:16,800
hear it through a person who has
these kinds of gifts that's 

234
00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,400
going to be helpful and it's 
going to reach different people 

235
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,300
but it's an even not reaching 
different people. 

236
00:12:21,300 --> 00:12:24,000
It's going to hit different 
sides of the same person and 

237
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,500
awakens something differently. 
You know? 

238
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,700
Like my kids, if you ask my 
kids, some most of them have 

239
00:12:29,700 --> 00:12:31,900
been through internship but 
they've at least been a part of 

240
00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:34,700
different classes. 
You ask my kids almost to a 

241
00:12:34,708 --> 00:12:38,400
person who's your favorite 
teacher at Grace Church, they'll

242
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,000
say, Scott Mozingo. 
This just happened a couple 

243
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,100
weeks ago. 
And my son, he was just like, I 

244
00:12:43,108 --> 00:12:46,700
mean, he's like talking about 
something and it's like exactly 

245
00:12:46,700 --> 00:12:49,700
what I'm thinking, you know, 
like I mean, a lot of my 

246
00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:53,100
teaching is I'm dragging you 
into what I'm thinking, and this

247
00:12:53,100 --> 00:12:55,300
is a different kind of 
intuition, you know, that with 

248
00:12:55,300 --> 00:12:58,100
different teachers have and this
person is more shepherding, this

249
00:12:58,100 --> 00:13:01,100
person's more directional. 
This person is more pastoral. 

250
00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:05,000
I mean, there's just all kinds 
of nuances to it and it's just 

251
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,300
important to have God's word 
sifted through different 

252
00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:12,200
personalities so that people can
grow well that That's good. 

253
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,300
I mean, I still think that's a 
very valid reason but now we 

254
00:13:14,300 --> 00:13:18,100
know because we as America has 
evolved, we there's always been 

255
00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:21,100
celebrity culture but now 
everything's about celebrity 

256
00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:23,300
culture. 
So now to have a church be 

257
00:13:23,300 --> 00:13:29,700
healthy because it's not just 
latched onto one iconic person 

258
00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:34,400
or personality that turns out to
be just as important is the 

259
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,200
original reason. 
And we, I mean, I thought about 

260
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:38,600
that a little bit and our 
elders. 

261
00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,400
We thought about that a little 
bit, but nails. 

262
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:46,500
It turns out it's a big deal. 
It's a big deal to have other 

263
00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:50,000
people be able to speak and our 
people will be able to Humble 

264
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,000
themselves and say, this may not
be my first choice of teacher, 

265
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,700
but I'm here to learn. 
I'm here to receive from God, 

266
00:13:56,700 --> 00:13:59,600
not receive from this person, 
and I think that's important, 

267
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,500
and I was speaking Grace City 
this past weekend, doing a 

268
00:14:03,508 --> 00:14:06,900
little parenting thing down 
there for will plunk and gray 

269
00:14:06,900 --> 00:14:10,600
City Church on Saturday and I 
taught for like three sessions 

270
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:15,900
and Long long long and but in 
the attitude of those folks who 

271
00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:18,400
I don't know, like I knew a 
couple of them but 60 people in 

272
00:14:18,408 --> 00:14:22,200
the room and there you could 
tell they had been taught but 

273
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,200
they were teachable and they 
were ready to receive from old 

274
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:30,800
guy, that's very generational, 
they're ready to receive and I 

275
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,300
think that having multiple 
teachers helps with that it 

276
00:14:33,308 --> 00:14:36,500
teaches us to be able to receive
what God has from whoever's 

277
00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:39,900
communicating and not and then 
the church doesn't rise and fall

278
00:14:39,900 --> 00:14:44,200
on me when I get hit by the ice.
Cream truck then we could keep 

279
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:45,400
going. 
It's Gerard. 

280
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,100
Our body can keep going. 
You know. 

281
00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:49,300
Alright last question for you 
today. 

282
00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:51,400
Matt, what's your favorite book 
of the Bible? 

283
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:57,800
And why? 
Mmm, you know, I'd give you to 

284
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,700
Genesis because everything is in
there. 

285
00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:08,500
It's just it, everything is in 
there, the beginnings in there, 

286
00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:13,200
in a way, the end is in there, 
the gospels in there, so many 

287
00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:18,100
real people dealing with the 
same things. 

288
00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:21,400
I mean, it is the most 
comprehensive is amazing study. 

289
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,000
It has all this theological and 
relational stuff going on. 

290
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:31,700
That is absolutely intriguing. 
And then Ruth, There's just 

291
00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:38,600
nothing like it literarily. 
I mean, it is the language. 

292
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,600
How the language is used? 
What it says about. 

293
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:49,900
God, what it says about her? 
Her loss, Naomi's loss, Ruth 

294
00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:53,500
commitment, Boaz is ability. 
I mean, it the pictures it does 

295
00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:56,200
for us that it gives us on the 
gospel. 

296
00:15:56,500 --> 00:15:58,900
And and it's not just this 
heavenly thing. 

297
00:15:58,900 --> 00:16:02,600
I mean it's so earthy. 
The when Ruth gets back that 

298
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,400
first morning and her mom is her
mother-in-law's, not very happy 

299
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,400
person to be around and Ruth 
gets up the first day and goes 

300
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,900
to work. 
It's just I mean that is 

301
00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:15,800
fascinating to me and then God 
Is Watching and God makes sure 

302
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:21,100
that Bo has seized her and she 
goes from Full to loss to full 

303
00:16:21,100 --> 00:16:23,600
Naomi does and Ruth's in the 
middle of that. 

304
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,100
I mean it is it might be if 
there's a perfect piece of 

305
00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:30,300
literature out there, it's got 
to be in the top. 

306
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,800
Two or three. 
Well it is the most cohesive 

307
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,000
well-written thing that I've 
ever read. 

308
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,000
And I you know I never get tired
of reading it. 

309
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:39,500
Read it forwards. 
Read it backwards. 

310
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:41,900
Three chapter four, The reach 
out to three, then you have to 

311
00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:43,800
each other one. 
Is this a very interesting 

312
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,900
experience is it is Justin. 
Bobby is the best piece of 

313
00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:49,500
literature ever written. 
It's just one man's opinion. 

314
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:51,400
That's awesome. 
Yeah. 

315
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:52,700
Thanks man. 
I was great. 

316
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,600
Yeah. 
Well, as we wrap up today's 

317
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,700
conversation, we want to thank 
you for joining us. 

318
00:16:57,900 --> 00:17:01,300
If you have questions or want 
access to additional resources, 

319
00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:04,500
be sure to check out our podcast
page located in the show notes. 

320
00:17:04,700 --> 00:17:07,800
And if we can help answer any 
questions about this episode or 

321
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,400
want us to discuss something in 
a future episode, please visit 

322
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,900
our podcast page and click on 
ask Kris and Scott and will 

323
00:17:14,900 --> 00:17:17,599
reach out to you. 
Hey, thanks for joining us today

324
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:20,099
and we look forward to joining 
you on the next episode.