1 00:00:04,520 --> 00:00:07,760 There's a prayer that the psalmist is writing and he's 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,680 he's basically praying keep me from lying to myself. 3 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,200 It created a whole new category for me where I thought, wait a 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,360 minute, if they're praying keep me from lying to myself, that 5 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,120 means it's possible that I am lying to myself. 6 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,120 And how would I know? Like how would I even know if I 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,720 am self deceived? Hey everyone, and welcome back 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,600 to the Greatest Church Podcast. I'm your host, Whitney Manus and 9 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:34,840 I'm here with my Co host, Scott Mzengo. 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:36,360 Hey Whitney. Hey, see you. 11 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,680 And in the studio today we have Daniel Moore. 12 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,840 He has been here 16 years and has worn many hats in our 13 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,640 church. So he's got great perspective on 14 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:50,000 just our church, our ministry, shepherding scripture and more. 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,640 And we'll get to our topic here in a minute. 16 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,480 But first, welcome Daniel. Thank you. 17 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,320 Glad to have you. I'll have you just do a quick 18 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,320 intro. Tell us a little bit about your 19 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,840 current role on staff, your family, and maybe a fun fact in 20 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:05,120 there. OK. 21 00:01:05,239 --> 00:01:08,000 Yeah. No, we have been here at Grace 22 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:14,360 for 16 years, three children, 1710 and eight years old. 23 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:19,280 So it is a busy season and we really enjoy it. 24 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:24,520 So this last year I got to come out of the Pelham Campus pastor 25 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,000 role to really work with our central staff. 26 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:32,240 So I oversee all of our campuses and then oversee a good chunk of 27 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,200 our central ministries as well. That's great, yeah. 28 00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:36,920 And we are. We're grateful for all that work 29 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,680 that you do. We're just coming out of 30 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,200 graduation season and you'll have your first graduate in a 31 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:43,840 year. In a year, yeah. 32 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,120 Crazy enough, yeah. That's what happens when they 33 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:47,400 get to 17. Yeah, I know. 34 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:48,760 That's awesome. It's going to be fun. 35 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,760 It'll be a fun year, so yeah. Well, we hope you all are having 36 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,640 a good summer and every summer we just want to talk about how 37 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,720 we can continue to stay engaged spiritually. 38 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,040 It's so easy with different changes of schedules to get off 39 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:04,480 a little bit. So today we're going to talk 40 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,760 about leading ourselves spiritually. 41 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,039 We know that the goal of a Christian life is to become more 42 00:02:10,039 --> 00:02:13,760 like Christ, but oftentimes it's easy to think like maybe the 43 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:18,160 Holy Spirit will just sanctify me by osmosis, or if I'm under 44 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,240 teaching and in community, then it'll just happen, right? 45 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,280 But as my dad would say, our spiritual health is something 46 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:25,920 that only we can be responsible for. 47 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:31,760 So Daniel got to teach a class to Spiro, which before we go too 48 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,240 much farther, could you explain a little bit of what is Spiro 49 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,880 and just how this even how this topic came about? 50 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,400 Yeah. Spiro is a group of 20 51 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,880 somethings, typically young, 20s, young to mid 20s that are 52 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,520 members of our church and leaders where they have full 53 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,240 time jobs in the marketplace. And they make a one year 54 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:55,080 commitment to serve at their campus for about 10 hours a week 55 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,280 and take on some real leadership responsibility and then be 56 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,440 developed between that responsibility and a weekly 57 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,640 class. That's great. 58 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,960 And then did you get asked to teach this class or did you get 59 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,400 to pick the topic? I did not get to pick the topic, 60 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,520 so yeah, no, I was asked just to teach on what it looks like to 61 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,080 lead yourself spiritually and it turned into a good exercise for 62 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:19,680 me. Just have to think through that 63 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,280 and even clarify exactly what that would mean. 64 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,280 So context is a big part of my personality. 65 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,560 I like and need context in most things I'm doing. 66 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,800 So with anything about leadership or I think about what 67 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,680 you are leading towards, you have to know where you're going. 68 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,440 And so thinking about relationship with God, thinking 69 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,480 about spiritually, where are we and what are we doing? 70 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,240 And just one of the easiest ways for me to find an anchor in that 71 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,560 is just to think about, even in reading Scripture, we are in 72 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,600 between Acts 1 where Jesus ascends, and Revelation where he 73 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,240 promises to return, and thinking about living in that in between 74 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,000 time. That's the context from which I 75 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,920 started thinking through. How do you lead yourself 76 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,240 spiritually? And if you were going to try to 77 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:12,480 put language to that, what were some ideas or some categories 78 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,960 you would think through? Yeah, no, that makes a lot of 79 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,880 sense and it's helpful terminology too. 80 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,680 We talk about spiritual formation and sanctification and 81 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,520 all of these are kind of similar terms. 82 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,360 But this idea of leading ourselves, of taking some 83 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,040 ownership and even slowing down to make sure that that's a 84 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,520 priority and and hectic life is great. 85 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,640 Yeah. And to Orient our personal 86 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,640 responsibility with the role that the church plays. 87 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,520 And I think when you are a part of a, a healthy local church, 88 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,240 which we're very, very proud of the work that we get to do here 89 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,720 at the church, always trying to make sure that we're healthy, 90 00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:51,840 trying to define what that is, even as a as a corporate entity, 91 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:54,160 as a church. But still you have a personal 92 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,960 responsibility to lead yourself. Like your dad said, no one else 93 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,400 can do that. So I think it's a great, it's a 94 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,760 great question, Daniel. And it seemed like a really 95 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:07,200 receptive audience of, you know, young adults who are coming out 96 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,200 of students in college and trying to figure this out for 97 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,280 themselves. So how did you begin to take 98 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:15,600 this conversation and form it into something that was 99 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,400 instructive? Yeah, I mean, I really looked at 100 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,600 my own life and just try to think about how, how have I had 101 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,440 to do this? What does this look like to lead 102 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,240 our family and even just leading here at the church. 103 00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:29,560 What are the things I've noticed or things I've seen? 104 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,520 But so much of it for my story is just ways in which I have 105 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:38,480 felt God kind of take different passages of Scripture and make 106 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,720 them sit on me. It's one of those things where 107 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,360 you're not just reading it, you find yourself kind of getting 108 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,440 stuck there and having to stay there and meditate on it for 109 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:47,720 days or weeks. So. 110 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,800 So this is biographical to a large extent, correct? 111 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,040 Yeah, very much so. And I think that's what we would 112 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,880 just ask the audience as they're listening to, not try to 113 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,880 template necessarily anything that Daniel says. 114 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,120 But take the big ideas, the principles, then overlay them on 115 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,880 your own spiritual experience and just kind of see, see where 116 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,440 you're at. Yeah, absolutely. 117 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,160 And before we kind of get further into some of those 118 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,960 points, I think both of y'all mentioned this idea of the goal, 119 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,120 like how would we define for us as believers? 120 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,080 There's kind of a few tears to it, but like what is the goal on 121 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,200 the wall that we're shooting for when it's not just knowledge for 122 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,520 knowledge sake? It's not just to become a good 123 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,160 person. So like, as we're leading 124 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,360 ourselves spiritually, like what are we trying to become? 125 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,160 Yeah, Godly, I think that's really what it is, is a growth 126 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,120 and godliness and being transformed more and more into 127 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,760 the image of Christ. Yeah, absolutely. 128 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,360 Yeah, and I think about second Peter 1 is one of my anchor 129 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,400 texts, you know, which says by his divine power, he's given you 130 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,280 everything you need for living a godly life. 131 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:53,040 And we often just kind of rush past that and we we substitute 132 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,880 like eternal life, like salvation equals eternal life. 133 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,280 And that's not what that's not what he's talking about. 134 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,600 So if we've been given everything that we need, then 135 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,240 the question is how do we take the resources that God has given 136 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,080 us, you know, through his word, through Spirit, through 137 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,080 community, and put that into practice and respond to God so 138 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,400 that this growth and godliness is actually taking place? 139 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:15,560 Yeah. And it looks a little different 140 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,280 for each of us, but there are some common denominators. 141 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,680 And I think reflecting on personal experience, just like 142 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,440 why we share life change stories, it's really helpful to 143 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,800 to help others be catalytic in their thinking. 144 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,240 So that's that's really where we're trying to go today. 145 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:31,960 Yeah, that's great. No, I love that. 146 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,880 I'm still in my 20s, so all of this is still for me, too. 147 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:36,680 Yeah. So then what? 148 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,200 What were some of those things that were helpful for you, 149 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,640 Daniel? Again, like you said, some of 150 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,960 these are personal. There's probably takeaways for 151 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:45,760 all of us. And then at the end, we'll talk 152 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,760 about what that could look like for us individually. 153 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,440 But yeah, where do you start? Yeah, the first one for me was 154 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,520 communing with God through His Word. 155 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,720 So more so than just reading the Bible, I think we always kind of 156 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,800 hear this need to read the Bible. 157 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,640 But if you go back a couple of years, I was even feeling the 158 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,520 need for us personally to read through all of Scripture again. 159 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:10,760 This is where reading through Scripture came from. 160 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,560 There are ways in which we do a lot of Bible study as the church 161 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,600 and but they're also ways, and I mean, in the 16 years that I've 162 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:23,400 been a pastor here, where we're noticing, we want everyone to be 163 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,920 able to read the Bible on their own and feed themselves. 164 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,280 And so we created reading through Scripture as a way to 165 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:34,360 just help us read on our own, but also show up to a group and 166 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,880 be able to have reflected a little bit and then share with 167 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,200 other people, Hey, here's what I'm seeing in God's Word. 168 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,800 And here's, as I reflect on it, here's what God's showing me. 169 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,640 And there's this, we see it in in our church, there's this 170 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:53,040 desire for change, there's this desire for life change. 171 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,280 And sometimes I think we wonder where the power for life change 172 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,000 comes from. And we all know it's the Holy 173 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,840 Spirit. But at the same time, the felt 174 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,760 experience of that is just lacking for a lot of people. 175 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,680 Yeah. And So what I, what I started 176 00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:10,800 noticing was the more that we would read and just write a 177 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,760 little bit each day and spend time, you would see these themes 178 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,560 popping out of Scripture that I mean, I've read through the 179 00:09:17,560 --> 00:09:23,880 Bible before, but there was this rhythm of dependence and prayer 180 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,160 and seeing like, just for me personally, like one of the big 181 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,560 themes was seeing the fear of the Lord all throughout the 182 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:33,320 Scripture, not just in a verse, but then you even see it in 183 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,000 practice in other places. And you're like, OK, God really 184 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,320 does mean this. He is going to do what he says. 185 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:43,360 Well, then even the practice of solitude like this is one of the 186 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,360 things I noticed just as we're going through it ourselves and 187 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,840 our group was there are these ways that we want to listen to 188 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,160 God and we want to practice solitude, which I think a lot of 189 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:54,640 people want to practice solitude right now. 190 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,960 The world is so busy. We're, we're clamoring for some 191 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:01,120 of that, but then once we actually go to listen, if we 192 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,360 don't have God's word inside of us, what we find ourselves doing 193 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,280 is listening to our emotions or listening to culture. 194 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,160 And in those moments of solitude, I was just noticing 195 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,880 where even listening to God had become disconnected from his 196 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,160 word. So this idea of communing with 197 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,960 him through his word, there, there's a constant feeding. 198 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,880 Romans 12 talks about how we should not copy the behaviors or 199 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,600 customs of this world, but we should let God transform us into 200 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,840 a new person by the changing the way you think. 201 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,360 And I see you play out there, but the big one for me was 202 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:47,080 Galatians 5 and the idea that we get to let the Holy Spirit guide 203 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,120 our lives. I mean, verse 25 actually says, 204 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,160 since you were living by the Spirit, let us follow the 205 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:55,520 spirits leading in every part of our lives. 206 00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:00,680 And learning to do that through His word and depending on him 207 00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:06,960 was was a really big deal. Did you find that it got easier? 208 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,520 Was it difficult in the beginning and it got easier to 209 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:13,480 think less of yourself and more of God as you were reading? 210 00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:18,200 Or are what were some ways that you tried to cultivate that self 211 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,360 forgetfulness and really try to engage scripture as it was 212 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:27,400 presented? Yeah, when you read the entirety 213 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:33,000 in that fashion, I think your curiosity gets stirred and you 214 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,840 start to see how this is really not about me. 215 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,840 Like this is all about God. He's revealing himself. 216 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,160 He's revealing himself through his people. 217 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,800 He's leading them. And then when you just start to 218 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,480 connect those dots and trace that story throughout scripture, 219 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:54,200 you realize how much we are a small part of his story, more so 220 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,480 than us trying to fit him into our story. 221 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,800 Yeah. It's funny, I was I have a 222 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,800 illustration that is very timely to this. 223 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:11,120 I was with my mom and she likes to shop at a couple stores in 224 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,280 town that I wouldn't normally shop out. 225 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:14,640 And I'm not going to say what those are. 226 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,400 Well, I mean, they have a little bit of everything, put it, put 227 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,080 it that way. And one of these stores has a 228 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,640 lot of, you might call it like chinky kind of stuff. 229 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:28,160 And some of it is Christian stuff and a lot of as seen on TV 230 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:29,920 stuff, which is quite fascinating. 231 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,120 But one thing that I that I saw was this. 232 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,520 It's called my mood Bible verse audio player. 233 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,480 And so you choose a verse based on how you feel. 234 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,560 So your choices are happy, thankful, angry, anxious, lonely 235 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:48,000 or sad. And you push a button and you 236 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,920 get a preloaded spirit lifting Bible verse. 237 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,360 So I feel like I'm showing it to you now. 238 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:56,480 You can't see at home 'cause you're just listening. 239 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:02,160 But I feel like best represents our culture and and what you're 240 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:07,880 describing is the attempt to get out of the me centered movement 241 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,480 towards reading the scriptures. Yeah, very much so. 242 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,920 That feels like, I mean, this is a, a, a, a pretty rough version 243 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,480 of just reading the Bible, you know, even pulling certain 244 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,400 verses. But I think this notion of 245 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,040 reading the Bible verses, communing with God, that is 246 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:28,200 definitely worth reflecting on. And so Danny, you, you talked 247 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,360 about Galatians 5 and like letting the Holy Spirit guide 248 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,440 your life. And there's a contrast there in 249 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,520 Galatians 5 between flesh and then being guided by the Spirit. 250 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,600 How does that kind of factor into this idea that you had 251 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,440 about understanding where we might struggle, where we might 252 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,440 be deceived? Yeah, no. 253 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:53,320 Understanding deception is a huge part of living and trying 254 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,280 to follow Jesus in broken bodies and asking him to sanctify us. 255 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,920 So I mean it goes all the way back to the beginning with the 256 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,000 way in which Satan deceived Adam and Eve. 257 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,400 I think about Romans one and the way it talks about how we have 258 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,400 traded the truth about God for a lie. 259 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,880 And but where where it really hits me. 260 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:20,240 Years ago we had a pastor's retreat and I remember there was 261 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:24,440 a point, I think I was, I think I was 30 and I think I was the 262 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,640 youngest pastor in the room. And all of us are out there. 263 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:30,880 Jim Taylor was doing a devotional. 264 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,840 It wasn't even the main topic for the session, but he's doing 265 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,120 a devotional to get to get the session started. 266 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,920 And he talked about Psalm 1/19/29. 267 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,680 And there's a prayer that the psalmist is writing and he's 268 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,600 he's basically praying keep me from lying to myself. 269 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:53,480 But the way that Jim showed us that was, it created a whole new 270 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,240 category for me where I thought, wait a minute, if they're 271 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:00,400 praying keep me from lying to myself, that means it's possible 272 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,800 that I am lying to myself. And how would I know? 273 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,080 Like how would I even know if I am self deceived? 274 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,520 Like there's so much irony in that of how do I know? 275 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,920 Am I deceived right now? Am I deceived and thinking that 276 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:14,320 I'm not deceived? Exactly. 277 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,280 No, that's exactly right. So when even when you're 278 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,640 communing with God through his word, you know that you need 279 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,040 other people around to help make sure you, you are thinking 280 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,920 clearly, you're seeing yourself clearly the importance of 281 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,640 confessing your sin. I mean, and even this is what 282 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,920 region really helped me with a few years ago whenever I did it, 283 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,680 being able to confess without control, like just being able to 284 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,600 really confess. I think one of the reasons why I 285 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,880 wanted to do Regen was I felt like there were some SIM 286 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,680 patterns that weren't egregious, but they were just kind of 287 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,040 staying on simmer and I really wanted to be free. 288 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,880 And through going through Regen, what I finally kind of realized 289 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:03,840 was I had really confessed 95% of my sin and I just would round 290 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,880 up. But then actually getting to the 291 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:07,240 point of going, no, I want to be free. 292 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,440 I'm going to confess this final 5%. 293 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,320 That's actually what led to freedom. 294 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:16,600 But it is the deceptive schemes that allow us to kind of twist 295 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,920 that and turn inward. And we need to know where we're 296 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,920 blinded to those things. So how did holding on to that 5% 297 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:28,960 allow you to control? I mean, controlling image a 298 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:33,040 little bit, confessing generically but not 299 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,840 specifically. And then in my conscience I 300 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,320 would feel like I've confessed enough and then the Spirit would 301 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,280 just kind of prompt me to go. But you didn't really confess it 302 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:46,760 all. So. 303 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:53,160 But I think a lot of it really is around trying to be faithful 304 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:57,080 and follow Jesus while holding on a little bit to our image. 305 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:58,600 Yeah. No, that's good. 306 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,480 That's good. So communion with God and then 307 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,880 understanding deception and particularly the deception that 308 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,240 stands in the way of us fully being able to commune with God. 309 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,680 What was the third big idea that you that came to you as you were 310 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,680 putting this talk together? Yeah, this is a little bit of a 311 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,720 turn, but the the third idea was around building the church and 312 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:25,359 the way that God does that. And we think about how if we 313 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,079 have the Spirit of God within us, then we also have spiritual 314 00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:29,920 gifts or we have personal giftings. 315 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:34,800 And even Hebrews 9 hints at this. 316 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,920 But there's a passage in Hebrews 9 that talks about how much more 317 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:45,200 will the blood of Christ cleanse our consciences and allow us to 318 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,000 really serve the living God. Well, that's, that's what I'm 319 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,520 talking about with building the church. 320 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,520 Like we are free and we have new life in Christ and we're able to 321 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,120 commune with him. We need to understand deception. 322 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,840 But if we have this context, then we know that our life is to 323 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,920 be spent as an agent of reconciliation and building the 324 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,480 church in these ways. So we've been studying First 325 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:11,680 Corinthians this spring and particularly chapters 13 and 14. 326 00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:18,200 You know, you, you see these encouragements to like in 14, it 327 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,480 talks about since you're so eager to have the special 328 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,480 abilities that the spirit gives, seek those gifts that will 329 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,760 strengthen the whole church. So this this point around 330 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,280 building the church in the unity that comes with it. 331 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,760 Where it where it's really hit me personally is in chapter 13 332 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:41,320 with the idea of love. So it does not matter what type 333 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,200 of gift you have. Like I like I would say some of 334 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:48,000 my gifting is around leadership, but it does not matter how good 335 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,920 of a leader I am if I don't love people. 336 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,440 Like it doesn't matter what I could oversee or what I could 337 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:59,320 organize or what I could empower or lead towards if I am not 338 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,680 actually loving the people I'm leading. 339 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,920 And that that's another area where I think it's amazing that 340 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,920 God invites us into this, living in between Acts 1 and 341 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,160 Revelation, we get to be a part of building his church and 342 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,680 having his Kingdom come onto earth like it is in heaven. 343 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,480 Yeah. And it's, it's if you take what 344 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,280 we just talked about, about deception, you can see how it 345 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:30,320 applies here as we're talking about our giftings, because we 346 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,400 often become deceived. And what I've got is the most 347 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,920 important thing. Or oh, if like we convince 348 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,560 ourselves, if I just had the gift that somebody else had, 349 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,600 then that's what would allow me to be useful for the church. 350 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,440 And that's why we have to have both the Spirit and the 351 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,160 community around us to help us see objectively the gifts that 352 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,600 we do have. Well, and to put your identity 353 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:57,800 in your gifts, you know, I, I learned probably several years 354 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,560 ago from doing this that I was valuing gifts over grace. 355 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:10,040 Your gifts can really stand out and can hide sin like you're 356 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:16,240 talking about and and maybe over shadow really the work of grace 357 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,800 in your life for the short term, but over the long term it's 358 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,920 you're going to your sins going to outpace your gifts. 359 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,320 And if grace is not present in your life, God's grace, the 360 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,960 goodness, the new life, then you will find yourself being exposed 361 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,840 or hiding or whatever. And, you know, I thought Jim 362 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,200 Taylor a few weeks ago when he taught on that passage, 363 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,920 particularly First Corinthians 13, the first part, I thought he 364 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,680 did just a, a great job of giving us some, some categories 365 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,240 and some ideas. And a couple things that came to 366 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,640 to my mind that I like to do is I like to look at that list and 367 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,680 grade myself on a curve, you know, and just think, oh, well, 368 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,360 I'm doing OK. You know, it's like, let's let's 369 00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:03,920 do a totality roundup. And I'm doing better than I used 370 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,000 to be. So I don't really have a lot of 371 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,880 application on that. And that's the first mistake. 372 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,720 And then I think the second mistake is to look at that list 373 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,840 and look at it through the lens of other people and like, oh, 374 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,480 well, this is what Whitney needs to work on. 375 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:17,640 This is what Daniel needs to work on. 376 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,680 This is what my wife and my kids need to work on. 377 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:25,120 And I just encouraged our congregation not to do that and 378 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:28,640 to really just take, take the step, you know, and not be 379 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,800 deceived and not, not let that diminish, but see the see the 380 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,480 bigger picture of, of building, building up the church. 381 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,400 So then we kind of started this conversation talking about 382 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,960 godliness as our goal. And but some of that has to be 383 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,560 also rooted in there's this world that we're living in right 384 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:53,600 now and there's complicated nature to all of that and trying 385 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,280 to figure out how to be godly in the world that we're in. 386 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,520 But then there's also something that we know as believers comes 387 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,640 after that. So ultimately, like how should 388 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,040 we kind of develop this focus? Like what should we be focused 389 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,560 on as we are trying to pursue leading ourselves spiritually 390 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:15,680 and becoming more like Christ? Yeah, there's a there's a 391 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,840 passage in Luke 12 that I was teaching back in the fall. 392 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,000 I was actually teaching with Mev back in the fall. 393 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,120 And the chapter is great. I mean, it is one that most 394 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:29,200 people would know around the lilies of the field and where 395 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,240 your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 396 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:36,160 And right after it, the very next verse in verse 35, I think 397 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,400 I'm seeing how much is connected to the same thing where Jesus is 398 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,440 saying, hey, don't worry, seek the Kingdom of God above all 399 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,360 else. And then it says and be dressed 400 00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:48,400 and ready for the master's return. 401 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,080 He's basically saying, it's like your master has gone away and 402 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,400 you should be prepared at all times for his return. 403 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:57,880 You should keep the lamps burning. 404 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:03,120 You should be dressed. And the what it alludes to is 405 00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:05,920 what happens if you're not prepared? 406 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,560 And what if you start to believe that your master's not going to 407 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,760 be back for a while and you start to lose focus, or you 408 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,520 start to enjoy the pleasures of this world too much? 409 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,320 And that question is one that I I've thought about a lot. 410 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:26,520 How am I living with a real anticipation of Christ's return, 411 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,400 if at all? And I I think it's it's just 412 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,440 easy for us to lose focus of this. 413 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,760 It's not all bad things like it take saving like here's a a 414 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,680 couple of personal examples for me, take the idea of saving. 415 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,040 It is not a problem to save. It is a wise thing to save and 416 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,200 yet there are ways that I get consumed with saving and 417 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:54,760 investing and start to just focus on that too much that then 418 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,560 takes away from how much I'm anticipating Christ return. 419 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,400 Or it's not a problem to go on vacation. 420 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,880 I think vacations are great. I love to play golf. 421 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,040 So last summer I got to do a trip of a lifetime with with a 422 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,800 golf trip with some friends. But it's amazing to me how 423 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,280 quickly I can over indulge in that and let my imagination be 424 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:20,200 captured by the next trip and the next trip and all of that at 425 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,080 the expense of the ministry opportunities that are right in 426 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,280 front of me. So that's what I mean. 427 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,960 Thinking about and living in light of Christ's return keeps 428 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,000 my focus on building the church, keeps my focus on communing with 429 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,560 God, keeps my focus on growing and godliness. 430 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:43,120 For these purposes, and I'll just tell you a quick story, one 431 00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:46,600 of our members at one of our campuses is has become a friend 432 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,160 of mine. He's about to turn 91 next month 433 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,240 and I got to have breakfast with him this last week. 434 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:59,160 And really even with his age, he is still so focused on this 435 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,680 point that if he is alive, God has him here for a purpose and 436 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,600 he needs to be disciple in people. 437 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,200 And as we were having breakfast, there was this point that I even 438 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,800 asked because he's, he's outlived a lot of his family and 439 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,800 a lot, most of his friends. And I just asked him about this 440 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,880 passage and what he would, what he thinks about with Christ's 441 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,840 return. And he actually stopped and 442 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,000 said, sometimes I wonder if God is keeping me alive in order so 443 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,040 that I could see Jesus's return and that that was emotional for 444 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,800 him. And then it became emotional for 445 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,800 me. But but that is what I mean like 446 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,040 this, this focus around I am not living for myself. 447 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,040 I God is doing this work, I'm invited into it. 448 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,880 But each of these, if you notice, have really been a 449 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,840 different passage of Scripture that God has used to shape me 450 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,920 and to help kind of drive some of these points home. 451 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,440 Yeah, no, that's so helpful and encouraging. 452 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,440 But even that question of am I ready? 453 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,000 Like I have to stand before the Lord? 454 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,760 I mean that feels so heavy. Do you have any thoughts for us 455 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,520 on just how do we know if we are doing this well or how do we 456 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,000 know if we're not doing this well and to be self aware and 457 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,280 not self deceived? Yeah, no, absolutely. 458 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,480 So I, I don't think these 4 categories are, you know, the 459 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,120 only four ways that you can think about leading yourself 460 00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:28,000 spiritually. There are 4 categories that I 461 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,720 have kind of taken passages of Scripture that have been 462 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,960 important to me or God's used to shape me. 463 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,640 And I've tried to zoom out a little bit. 464 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:39,160 But I, I don't think the response is just for everybody 465 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,120 to go live all four of these out. 466 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:45,600 I think the better response would be what are the passages 467 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:50,080 that you have studied where God is using to shape you and change 468 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,400 you and how have you been attuned to God through His Word? 469 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,680 It is not a quick process and I think that's another thing that 470 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,960 I really appreciated about reading through Scripture is 471 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,720 stretching it out for a year and a half for sure. 472 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,040 It's actually not as important that you read every verse as 473 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:13,400 much as it's a long term rhythm of you reading and reflecting 474 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,760 and sharing and how that starts to train you to commune with God 475 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,320 and meet with Him there. Couple of things I've heard you 476 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:26,280 say as you've really been a, a, a proponent of RTS is taking 477 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,400 something that can feel like a duty. 478 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,480 If we're like you got to read your Bible, you got to read your 479 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:32,960 Bible. Good Christians read their read 480 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,880 their Bible. And how do you do that in a 481 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,840 rhythm with the right perspective, focusing on God, 482 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,000 the character and nature of God. That really turns it into a 483 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,320 delight that seems to get at, you know, turning going from 484 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,840 duty and delight to delight seems to get at this idea of 485 00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:50,360 reading versus commuting. And then it seems like the, the, 486 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,320 the cascade or the waterfall effect goes, goes down from 487 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,280 there to your other points. And I love this idea of seeking 488 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,520 first the Kingdom of God and everything else being added. 489 00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:04,080 And because we, we live, we, we like to live in a binary world 490 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,920 where it's like good and bad. So you talk about savings or you 491 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,880 talk about a vacation or a hobby, like it's not good or 492 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,280 bad. It's just, it's like, what's 493 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:12,960 your perspective and what's your priority? 494 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:19,560 And like seeking first like that takes some, that takes some real 495 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:24,000 thoughtfulness around that, like where am I putting my time? 496 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,480 Where am I putting my energy? Where am I putting my, my, my 497 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,920 emotions? And that the promise that if I 498 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,560 do seek first, then then everything else will be added in 499 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,160 the sense I think that it just it, it, it falls in line in the 500 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,680 priority that God has for us and that it has to be an individual. 501 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,680 It has to be an individual exercise, you know, And so I 502 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,680 thanks for giving us a window into just kind of where you've 503 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,040 been the last couple years. And I appreciate you sharing 504 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,400 that with our Spiro group and now sharing it with us. 505 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:55,960 So. Now I agree. 506 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,520 I think that's so helpful, such a good reminder. 507 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,480 And again, just as we're in the summer, we we don't want to 508 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,200 coast, we want to, we want to lock in as the kids say and 509 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,920 really just use the time that we have. 510 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,200 I mean, during the school year it feels like we're all running 511 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,360 around and saying I'm just busy and I wish I had more time and 512 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:13,880 if I had more time then I could do this. 513 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,240 And then we get to summer and we're like, I kind of want that 514 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,720 time to be for me. And that's just, we have a 515 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,800 different choice that we we can make. 516 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:23,680 And I think that these are great thoughts. 517 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,640 Yeah. And I will say we, we talk a lot 518 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:30,720 about spiritual leadership and it can, it can imply taking 519 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,480 responsibility for other people. And that's really important. 520 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:38,560 And our church is built on just the, the, the nature that other 521 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,720 folks will take responsibility, spiritual responsibility for 522 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,440 others in community and in different leadership positions. 523 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,960 But I think that's why this topic is so important is like, 524 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,080 if you're not leading yourself spiritually, then you're really 525 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,080 not. You're really not fit. 526 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,400 Yeah, really not fit to lead someone else. 527 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,120 Yeah, it's complicated and tough, but that's why we would 528 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,800 encourage all, Yeah, go find your passages, whatever the 529 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,800 three or four things are for you that you need to go sit with, 530 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,560 what you need to go bring to the Lord and commune with Him on. 531 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,960 And even just looking for ways that we're self deceived, ways 532 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,440 that we can use our guests to love others, and the ways that 533 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,720 we can look forward and keep our focus on Christ's return one 534 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,640 day. So guys, thanks for this. 535 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,000 Conversation. Thanks for coming in, Daniel. 536 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,440 Yeah. Good to see you and thanks. 537 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,760 So before we go, if you'd like to see the My Mood Bible that 538 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,720 Scott referenced during today's conversation, we've included a 539 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,440 photo of that in the show notes for you. 540 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,160 And if you're enjoying the Grace Church Podcast, we would love 541 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,400 for you to follow us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, leave a 542 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,200 rating and review, and let us know what topics you'd like us 543 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,120 to cover in future episodes. Thanks for listening and we'll 544 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:45,800 see you next time.