1 00:00:04,520 --> 00:00:08,840 Just being reminded that it's a long game, parenting students. 2 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:13,760 In some ways it goes really fast, but it's a long game. 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,920 And the importance of keeping them talking, if I can keep them 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,520 talking, and I mean like really talking about what they're 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,920 thinking, what they're feeling, what they're frustrated about or 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,080 what they're scared about or whatever that is. 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,480 That's always been my first goal. 8 00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:34,480 Well, welcome back to the Grace Church Podcast. 9 00:00:34,480 --> 00:00:39,280 Today, we are talking parenting teenagers with Matt and Ashley 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,640 Gayman. We're also joined here in the 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:46,200 studio by Whitney Manus, our director for this podcast. 12 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,960 And welcome, Whitney, tell us your relationship to the world 13 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,120 of teenagers. Yeah, I do not have any of my 14 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,040 own, but I am very fortunate to lead a group of junior girls 15 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,360 here at the Pelham campus and I've had some of them for about 16 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,560 four years. Started with them in 7th grade 17 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,880 and then we added on a few freshman year, so it's been a 18 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,120 lot of fun. I love the group. 19 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:08,440 That's sweet. That's awesome. 20 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:09,880 So Whitney's here to add her insight. 21 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,160 And Matt and Ashley, you have been at this teenage game for a 22 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,520 little while. So tell us about your family. 23 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,080 Tell us about your connection to the church, what you do outside 24 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,240 of the church, and yeah, just give us a little orientation to 25 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:28,080 all things gaming. Yeah, well, so Ashley and I have 26 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,600 been at Grace since a little before we got married, so we 27 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,600 just celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary. 28 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:36,600 Let's go. Congrats. 29 00:01:37,320 --> 00:01:44,000 So we've benefited in many ways by being a part of Grace as we 30 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,760 figured out how to be newlyweds, how to be new parents, how to be 31 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,400 better workers, better parents, you know, how to think through 32 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,320 some of that. So our family, we have 4 kids. 33 00:01:55,640 --> 00:02:01,080 Maggie is 16, care grades 15, Oliver is 11, and then Hope is 34 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,800 7. So we have some high school, 35 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,720 some middle school, and low elementary. 36 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:13,360 I've been leading Ashley. Ashley and I both started 37 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,240 leading student ministry when Maggie started in 7th grade. 38 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,280 So we started in 24/7 through 7th and 8th grade. 39 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,240 I moved up as Maggie moved up in the high school. 40 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:29,160 I moved up in the Forge. Or Ashley circled back as Kerry 41 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,120 Gray started 24/7 and did another round of 7th and 8th 42 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:33,240 grade. She's got a heart for the middle 43 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,280 schoolers, apparently. That's awesome. 44 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:41,400 And so now, yeah, I'm leading a group of Forge junior boys now 45 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:46,560 on the Pelham campus. I think it's it is Paul Tripp 46 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,760 who famously coined the the the name of his book age of 47 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:52,880 opportunity. When we think about teenagers, 48 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,320 not thinking about it as something terrible season to be 49 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:02,000 avoided, but to really look at it as a place to see spiritual 50 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,240 formation where it can really, really bring about fruit. 51 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,640 And so one of the reasons why we wanted to to bring you guys in 52 00:03:09,640 --> 00:03:12,200 is because you're you're parenting two teenagers. 53 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,440 You're also closely connected with our high school ministry. 54 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:20,080 And so we just wanted to have a conversation. 55 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,080 Have you encourage the parents that are listening on some of 56 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:25,960 the good, some of the challenges, some of the things 57 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,000 you're seeing as leaders. But let's just start in the in 58 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,120 the game and household. What are some ways that you feel 59 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,680 like you've been able to engage your kids and ultimately direct 60 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:39,320 them to to biblical truth in this age of opportunity, if you 61 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,640 will? Yeah. 62 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:47,800 So I would say kind of big picture, I would say that as 63 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:52,200 we've been thinking through this and talking with each other and 64 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:57,400 with our girls, I think that the the conclusion I kind of came to 65 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,360 was we are all broken people trying to disciple and lead 66 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:07,320 broken people. And so when we, when we're 67 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:12,360 trying to particularly work around issues or problems we're 68 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,520 having, I think it's important for us to remember first to look 69 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,360 to Scripture into God and then to look to community. 70 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:23,240 So I think for us, it's been demonstrating how we need our 71 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,160 community as Matt and I need our community desperately. 72 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,000 And then just showing that to our family. 73 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,480 And hey, we've, we've talked to this person, we talked to this 74 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:37,320 person, we've looked at this Scripture and just living that 75 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:38,760 out day-to-day. Yeah. 76 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:41,920 And so you actually sat the girls down. 77 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,160 You guys had a little little interview with the girls in 78 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,920 preparation for this interview, and you just ask them some 79 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:49,480 questions. What kind of stuff did you find 80 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,240 out, Matt? Yeah, I think if there's one 81 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,440 take away from this conversation, it's, hey, maybe 82 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:02,120 ask these questions to your kid, your student, because it seems 83 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,320 like something we should have done along the way. 84 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,240 But it was really cool knowing that we're oh, we we're going to 85 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:14,600 be talking about what we've done with our kids, man, how have we 86 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,280 done? What's my kids perspective on 87 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:19,280 how we've done and what's been helpful and what was not 88 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:22,680 helpful. And so sitting down with them 89 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,600 and talking outside of a parenting moment, outside of a 90 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,480 specific issue or situations like, hey, there's nothing on 91 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,120 the table right now. Here's a question. 92 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,320 What have we done that has helped you in any way as you've 93 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,600 grown in your faith and in your own spiritual formation and. 94 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:42,240 For them to go, what's the catch? 95 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:47,640 What's the catch? Yeah, yeah, there's hang on, are 96 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,480 you a narc? What what is this all about? 97 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,760 But it was really cool to hear that we did it separately. 98 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,120 OK. So conversation with Maggie, 99 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,000 conversation with Kerry Grace, just to get their thoughts on. 100 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:01,080 OK what? What would you say is the most 101 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:06,160 helpful thing or what do you feel like you wish maybe we had 102 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:07,880 done differently or we we would handle differently? 103 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,960 So that was super cool. I would encourage anybody that's 104 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,040 a good place to start is hey, I, I care about you and your 105 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:15,880 discipleship and I'm trying to do the best I can. 106 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,960 I tell my kids this all the time as they get in each new phase. 107 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,800 I've never done this before, just like you've never done this 108 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:24,440 before. So we're figuring this out. 109 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,640 So just to have a conversation outside of any situation and 110 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:31,760 say, hey, how's it going? What are we doing that's helping 111 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,720 and how can we help you better? Yeah. 112 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,000 So what did you find out? So I think the the biggest take 113 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,040 away from me or from the girls as they kind of articulated back 114 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:47,400 to us being in community within the church, they they quickly, I 115 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,600 think understood, OK, we are going to church. 116 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:55,080 That's not a up for up for discussion, but it was cool to 117 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:59,360 hear them talk about, OK, but we saw you in community group and 118 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,200 the way y'all were talking about things, praying for people, 119 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,400 getting prayed for. There were marking moments along 120 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,920 the way where they realized, OK, now you're serving. 121 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,000 But I hear y'all talking about things that you're talking about 122 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,200 with the folks you serve with. You're getting perspectives, 123 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:22,000 you're getting input, you're asking questions like even for 124 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:27,880 Maggie, as we've unfortunately had to engage the conversation 125 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,480 around dating, What does that? Look like what a tragedy voice. 126 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,280 It was cool for her to be able to say even the fact that as I'm 127 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,560 talking to her about what I'm thinking through and my 128 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,680 perspective on it and I'm sharing with her, OK, well 129 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,320 here's here's some folks that your mom and I have talked to. 130 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,320 Here's what they're saying and here's some some examples or 131 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,600 here's some thoughts or here's and they and they realize, oh, 132 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,640 they're working through this. They really are working through 133 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,360 a process here. So now we can talk. 134 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,160 Now I can be a conversation and not just my dad just doesn't 135 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,880 want me to date or he wants it to look the way he wants it to 136 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,160 look. They believe and they understand 137 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,040 we're in community just like we need them to be. 138 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,280 And so then following up and asking, you know, as I see them 139 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,960 step into a new role of serving that they chose to do. 140 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,920 And so I just see what that does for you and mom being plugged in 141 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,840 and having people around you that can speak in and help. 142 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,680 And I want that in my life. So that that was cool to hear 143 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:29,640 back from. Them, yeah. 144 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,679 And we're, we're certainly not trying to offer any kind of 145 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,280 formula or secret insight. We're not saying the Gamans have 146 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,440 cracked the code, but when you do think about things that you 147 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,679 have done as a as a family individually with the girls over 148 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,720 the years, what are what are a few more practical things that 149 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,360 that stand out that you have seen bear some fruit? 150 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:50,880 Yeah. And so I'm going to back up a 151 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:52,440 little bit about the crack of the code thing. 152 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:57,240 Another thing that was obvious, as we would have been talking as 153 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,000 a family and have as I've been thinking about and praying 154 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:05,720 through this parenting students idea, I just kind of am 155 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,880 overwhelmed at the thought of Matt and I are both from 156 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,800 families of a long line of Christian believers and we've 157 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,360 always been in church and we've been heavily involved. 158 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,560 Our parents are still together. They love the Lord, they love 159 00:09:17,560 --> 00:09:19,200 us. So if anybody should have a 160 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,280 completely full toolbox, it should be us. 161 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,800 And yet this parenting thing is so overwhelming. 162 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,440 So we all need help from the Lord and then from community as 163 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,200 well. No, that's such a, that's such a 164 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,120 good reminder, that posture of humility and then being willing 165 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,720 to ask and being willing to expect that God could actually. 166 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:37,720 These are brokenness, yeah. Yeah. 167 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,080 And going back to the, you know, the first part of community 168 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,000 being being such an important aspect of that. 169 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:47,640 And I do think it's easy for parents to to, to be 170 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,160 discouraged. I think it's easy for parents to 171 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,120 compare and to look around at, at other kids. 172 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,440 And, and a lot of that is, is part of the performance trap of 173 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,760 our culture. And So what we're trying to do 174 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:03,640 today is just get beneath some of those trappings and really 175 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,720 talk about cultivating the relationship. 176 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,800 And so Matt, you had some some thoughts on how to really 177 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,160 cultivate the relationship, particularly with your. 178 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:19,160 Girls, yeah, I think, and I am certain it's from some of the 179 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,440 the parents and folks that we're in a relationship with that have 180 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,120 spoken into us along the way. But just being reminded that 181 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,320 it's a long game, parenting students, in some ways it goes 182 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,920 really fast, but it's a long game. 183 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,960 And the importance of keeping them talking. 184 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:42,680 And if I can keep them talking, and I mean like really talking 185 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:45,360 about what they're thinking, what they're feeling, what 186 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,280 they're frustrated about or what they're scared about or whatever 187 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,800 that is. That's always been my first 188 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:54,560 goal. And the only way they're going 189 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:57,680 to be willing to talk is if they really understand that I truly 190 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,360 want to know and I really am listening. 191 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:06,960 Even talking with them prior to this, having them say you're not 192 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,040 just jumping in to fix it in the moment all the time. 193 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,640 It really is a conversation. Now there's times where one of 194 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,600 my daughter's has stopped me mid conversation and said, hey, if 195 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,080 it's, you know, they're, they're asking if they can go do 196 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:21,680 something. And I'm not sure 'cause I'm not 197 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:25,240 100% confident of the environment and what all's going 198 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,360 to be going on. And she just stopped me as I'm 199 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,240 asking some questions. He's like, do you already know 200 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,560 the answer to this? Because if you already know that 201 00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:34,880 I can't go, just tell me no and let's just be done. 202 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,160 And I said no. I really do want to hear how 203 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,360 you're thinking, why you're wanting to go and how you're 204 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,040 thinking through it. I'm going to make a decision, 205 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:50,240 but I want to hear from you. And once she understood that I'm 206 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,680 really working through making a decision, she's willing to talk 207 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:55,720 and then she wouldn't get, but I could tell it was a pivotal 208 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,880 moment for her. And if this isn't a real 209 00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,600 conversation, let's don't have it. 210 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,600 If you're just trying. This was her words as I remember 211 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,320 it was. If you're just trying to get me 212 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,800 to arrive at the conclusion, you've already made she. 213 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,080 Didn't want to just tell me. There's nothing like a teenager 214 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:16,160 to sniff out like a fake, a fake tone of like, you're not being 215 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,320 100 with me right now, dad, Come on. 216 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,760 That's right. So, you know, for me recognizing 217 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,720 this is a long game and I think if they can understand I care 218 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:31,320 more about their soul and their heart and their relationship 219 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,200 with Christ and our family or whatever relationships, I care 220 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,840 more about that than any immediate circumstance that's 221 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:43,440 helping us go a little deeper. Then they're more willing to 222 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:44,960 engage. But that that's always been my 223 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:46,760 goal is how do I keep them talking? 224 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,320 And our girls are different and they want to engage differently 225 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,120 and on different levels and speeds. 226 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,440 And so you, you know, one, she's ready to talk at 11:00, probably 227 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,800 not before then at night. By the way, PMPM by the way. 228 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,600 So, you know, you just have to figure out how can I get them in 229 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:07,640 real conversation? Yeah. 230 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,080 And do you guys divide some responsibilities? 231 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:14,440 Are there natural connections with the with the girls that you 232 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,440 tend to lean towards? Yeah, for sure. 233 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,240 I mean just the schedule of the day provides for some of that 234 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,400 because I'm a teacher. So I'm on, you know, I'm more of 235 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:28,280 the day-to-day address issues in the moment kind of thing. 236 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,360 And a lot of times since there's four kids at our house, we have 237 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:31,800 to move quickly to the next thing. 238 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,560 So it's kind of like, OK, let's just hit at the surface and then 239 00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:38,880 I text Matt, I'm like, OK, when you get home, we need to dig a 240 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:40,840 little deeper around this, this and this. 241 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,480 But and then I'm also I'm a little bit more the have fun one 242 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,800 I think of the two of us. So, you know, I'm like, I do 243 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,280 love teenagers. I love it. 244 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,720 And I think it's because I haven't matured a lot past that 245 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,160 level in some ways. So I'm like, yeah, let's go see 246 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,360 the new Inside Out movie or, you know, whatever and let's go play 247 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,920 pickleball if it's in the summer and I'm not having to get up 248 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,200 early the next day. So there's some different 249 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,640 dynamics to our personalities. But then also just the way our 250 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,680 schedule works out to where I feel like Matt's kind of the 251 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:16,280 one, I mean, he's a little bit better communicator anyway, but 252 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,680 he is the one that's thankfully willing to lead in that way. 253 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,240 And we'll get to the deeper heart issues around some of the 254 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,320 more like fires you put out throughout the day. 255 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,720 But you're in communication about that. 256 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,880 Oh yeah, Like I see this going on. 257 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,800 It's probably something deeper, but you know, I got to take 258 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,000 Oliver to football or whatever the case is and we'll need to 259 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:38,680 talk about it later. Yeah, both. 260 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,400 Both in our in our prep conversations with our girls, 261 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:46,680 they both recognize we engage them in different ways and they 262 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,840 appreciate that is different. So it it meaning Ashley is with 263 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,200 them more just by schedules and the way that works out. 264 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,680 And so she is handling things in the moment way more than I am 265 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:58,960 because I'm not there when it happens. 266 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,120 Believe it or not, sometimes I have issues over sharing clothes 267 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,760 and that can be a thing. Girls with clothes. 268 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,640 Or or whatever it might be. Yeah, there's there's a blow up 269 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,200 in a moment and Ashley's just got to respond and speak into 270 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,080 that. And then she's letting me know 271 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,920 here's what's happening and OK, what is a pattern or what was at 272 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,080 a level that there's something else going on. 273 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:22,920 My girls know we're going to have a when we're going to have 274 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,680 a conversation and it's going to be a bigger conversation. 275 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,280 My hope is that they understand is this isn't a dad lecture. 276 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,120 It is a conversation of let's think through the what's going 277 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,480 on here. And so, you know, you know, they 278 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,520 they were quick to point out it's nice that it's not both of 279 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:43,000 us in the moment, always bang, bang, bang, hitting them with do 280 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,000 this or think about this or correct that or whatever. 281 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:51,040 But it's also not both of us turning everything into a big, 282 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:56,160 deep, winding conversation. It's, it's, it's a balance. 283 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,680 We don't get it right. All the time for. 284 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,000 Sure. I will say I bet they wish 285 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,440 sometimes he was putting on the fires because he is more steady 286 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,320 and logical, whereas I get a little more emotional in the 287 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,040 moment and I'm like, you don't love me, you didn't pick up your 288 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,520 shirt or whatever. Well, I mean, it's interesting 289 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,440 finding that balance. We're not not wasting the 290 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,240 everyday opportunities to really connect them to how they're 291 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,080 thinking about God and how they're thinking about others, 292 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,960 which is just a big part of what it means to follow Jesus. 293 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,000 But then not turning everything into a lecture. 294 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,360 I mean, I think finding that balance with your unique 295 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,240 personalities, the personalities of the kids, the season of life 296 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,800 that they're in and the season of spiritual growth that they're 297 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,280 in. I mean, I think that's one one 298 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,360 reason why it can be so exhausting. 299 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,760 And, and parents just say, either just tell me what to do 300 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,680 or just absolve me and you do it for me, you know, small group 301 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,040 leaders because I, I can't, I can't do this. 302 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,840 And speak to a little bit about fear based parenting because 303 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,360 you're talking about having a natural curiosity and a 304 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,119 relationship with your kids. I feel like that gets snuffed 305 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,680 out a lot by parents who are just, they're just freaked out 306 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,640 by everything. Can you talk, Can you talk about 307 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,319 that a little bit? I can think of one specific 308 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:16,599 example. Since Matt already mentioned the 309 00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:20,720 dating thing. I really just wanted to kind of 310 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,599 put an end to it, like don't ever date kind of thing with 311 00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:28,560 Maggie. And I remember somebody telling 312 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:29,920 me, I think it was Bill White. He was like. 313 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,840 You're. Going to oopsie, you're going to 314 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:38,560 wound them by, you know, putting your experience on them, you 315 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,840 know, just being so fearful of, well, what if this happens? 316 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:42,240 What if this happens? What if they don't make a 317 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:43,680 decision and they're going to make mistakes? 318 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,440 We're going to make mistakes. So I think that was a good 319 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,160 reminder for me to give me a little more freedom and trusting 320 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,080 the Lord with things that I don't have, you know, speaking 321 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:58,640 wisdom into it, a scripture truth, and then just being like, 322 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,680 OK, you know, got to trust God that he's going to protect them, 323 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,960 you know? Yeah, that is always, even as a 324 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,000 leader, like I feel like I'm just constantly reminding 325 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,280 myself, like, God loves them more than I do. 326 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:15,080 He knows them more than I do. He, like, just really cares, you 327 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,000 know, And like, it's just out of my hands at a certain point. 328 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,440 So I mean, if that's at a leading level, I can't even 329 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,400 imagine for a parent, you know, how big that is. 330 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,760 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think fear and some of 331 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:33,120 this even as a forge leader now, and Ashley and I talked about 332 00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:36,640 this leading in student ministry and engaging intentionally with 333 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,520 students that we're really trying to pursue, how that even 334 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,080 has helped us on the parenting side. 335 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:46,120 Like, OK, if if I'm if I'm noticing this one kid has not 336 00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:49,920 spoken and I haven't heard from him and I don't know what's 337 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,080 going on. I really want to know, am I that 338 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,800 intentional at home? Are we just going through and I 339 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,800 have I really gotten to my own kids heart the way I have here? 340 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,240 But I think there's an there's an element of from a fear 341 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,360 perspective of not knowing one. I don't want to know if things 342 00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:13,200 are bad, but I also don't want to get caught in not knowing an 343 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,120 answer or not knowing what to do. 344 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,000 I think it's even, we talked about this all the time and even 345 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,840 in sharing your faith, people are hesitant to share their 346 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,400 faith because what if they ask a question and I can't answer it? 347 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,640 And so it just shuts the whole conversation down when in 348 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,400 reality we talk about this being a long game. 349 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,000 You got to just start by understanding where we are and 350 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,200 let's have a conversation, understand what you're dealing 351 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,000 with. We'll figure it out together. 352 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,320 If there's something I don't know, we can engage your 353 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,120 leaders. We can engage, you know, any 354 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:48,680 number of folks to help, but we have to get past that the fear 355 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,440 piece of where is this going to go? 356 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:55,680 I don't know where it's going to go all the time, but that can't 357 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,600 stop me from figuring out where we are. 358 00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:59,880 And then we can work on where does it need to go. 359 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,520 So that that's one way I think. Yeah, we've we've said it in 360 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,400 student ministry a lot for our parents. 361 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,520 And I try to remind myself on, you know, any number of topics 362 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,840 recently having talked with our 11 year old when it comes to 363 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,000 sexual. Brokenness and trying to prepare 364 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,360 him and think through what does it mean to manage your energy. 365 00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:23,640 Any of that. I have to pretend like it's not 366 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,040 awkward, you know, just to have it. 367 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,560 But if he doesn't feel like it's awkward, then I guess this isn't 368 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,320 awkward. I guess we can talk about this. 369 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,480 I can learn from my dad. I can't ask him questions 370 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,280 instead of depending on my fellow middle school buddies to 371 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:44,240 be my source. But again, that's just us having 372 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,360 to get over our own fear of am I equipped for this? 373 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:51,640 You know, we, we say it all the time, if we need an ounce of 374 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,360 knowledge, we need a pound of courage just to start and go. 375 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,640 There are resources to help figure it out. 376 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,600 And and it's we, we tend to think it's the opposite, like I 377 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,440 need a pound of knowledge and we discount the courage that it 378 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,240 takes to move towards our kids. Yes. 379 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,160 And so I think that's, I think that's a good, a good saying to 380 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,160 just remember. So then let's talk just about 381 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,960 the challenges just identifying with with some of the parents 382 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:18,520 out there. We've we've alluded to a few, 383 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,320 but can you think of some of the things that are the the most 384 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,600 difficult in the current season that you're in? 385 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,600 Probably the first thing that comes to mind for me is our 386 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,840 girls saying we're asking like, what have we not done well or 387 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,520 what's been hard about our parenting? 388 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,040 And they're kind of like, well, you're a little strict on the 389 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,200 dress code is what they said. And so I was like, yes, like 390 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,920 modesty is hard. It is so hard. 391 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,160 And I said so just so you know, we're not going to change that 392 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:51,640 code, dress code, but we, I think it's valuable for other 393 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,600 parents to know this is happening in all households in 394 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:59,320 our culture because it is not in style to be modest right now. 395 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,320 And it's particularly hard on these girls because you know, 396 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,160 they want to, they want to be dressing in style. 397 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:06,200 And. Yeah. 398 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,080 And so, I mean, there's been many occasions where I've been 399 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,360 talking to one of them and be like, I don't want you to dress 400 00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:15,800 older than you are, you know, like I don't want you to have to 401 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,840 look frumpish, but I don't want you to be in style. 402 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,920 But you still have to have some guidelines of modesty. 403 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,320 And so we can work on it together. 404 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,440 And it's a hard search. It is a hard search, but that is 405 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,120 one way that I just want to encourage everybody to keep 406 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:31,320 fighting the good fight on that one. 407 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,080 But it's hard. And do you think the girls, do 408 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,840 they, do they think they understand? 409 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:37,120 Do they understand where you're coming from? 410 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:38,680 Why you think it's important for them to be honest? 411 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,720 Sometimes and then sometimes they just I think think I'm 412 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,440 being maybe maybe a little bit hard on them over critical kind 413 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,640 of thing. But you know, hopefully in time 414 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,880 it'll be that hindsight I can look back and be like, thanks 415 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,080 mom. Thanks, Dad. 416 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,880 Well, and I think that could be one of the things too, where if 417 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,680 they know that you're in community, you're talking to 418 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,360 other parents, other parents are having the same issues, you 419 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:09,000 know, with their 16 and 15 year old daughters, then they don't 420 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,040 feel, they don't feel like they're being singled out, you 421 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,600 know, but they do understand that our our parents are, are 422 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,600 open to dialogue with other parents and they're open to 423 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:20,920 being wrong. I think that's hard. 424 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,160 I think that's hard. Some parents would rather be 425 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,840 right than be in relationship with their kids. 426 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,880 They wouldn't say it that way, but I think they're so worried 427 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,720 that they're going to screw their kids up and mess them up. 428 00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:37,320 Or maybe they're worried about whether people think that they 429 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:39,160 pursue rightness over relationship. 430 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,080 And also the relationship component is hard. 431 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,080 You know, it's hard when you're dealing with your emotions, 432 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,960 you're dealing with your teenagers emotions. 433 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,080 So sometimes it's just easier just to go through the motions, 434 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,840 right, right. And so anyway, I appreciate it. 435 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,480 And usually it's at the most inopportune time, right? 436 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,280 You know, like everybody's trying to get out the door and 437 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,520 you have to be like, switch it out, you know, that kind of 438 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,120 thing. So that's when you got to put 439 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:08,680 out the fire and we'll talk about it later and kind of have 440 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,720 to just put that on the back burner. 441 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,320 Yeah, that's good advice. Yeah. 442 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,200 Matt, what comes to your mind when you think about some of the 443 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,360 challenges? Yeah. 444 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:22,200 I, I think for me, finding that balance between what, what we 445 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,480 talked about earlier, when is this a bigger conversation that 446 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,000 we need to sit down and we, we need to go deeper and ask some 447 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,440 questions and really go, I think, you know, with our older 448 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,200 two being young women, you know, that's what one of them told me 449 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,320 as we were talking. She was like, I appreciate, I 450 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,720 said, I know we have conversations that you don't 451 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,560 want to have where I'm pursuing and I'm coming in, I'm saying, 452 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,880 Hey, we are going, we, we got to talk about this. 453 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,280 And I was like, how, how do you feel about that? 454 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,720 And she's, you know, this is the mystery, right? 455 00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:54,960 Well, sometimes it's great because it's helpful and I know 456 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,320 that I need to talk through it, but sometimes I just need you to 457 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:05,080 understand why I'm upset and why I'm hurt or why I'm sad and 458 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,520 let's just leave it. Leave it there for now. 459 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,280 So there's a balance there that we're always trying. 460 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:17,000 I'm trying to find in how big? How big is this moment? 461 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,640 But then that's where I, yeah, I try to remind myself of. 462 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,480 It's a long game. We got more conversations to 463 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:24,920 come. Everything doesn't have to get 464 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:26,680 cleared up and fixed in this moment. 465 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,720 She needs to know I care. She needs to know. 466 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,760 That's why I want to talk is I'm not Mr. Fix it, man, but I care 467 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,960 about her. And I don't get that right. 468 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,800 I'm sure I frustrate them at times with my, you know, trying 469 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,360 to have a conversation. They're not ready. 470 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,200 I think I can live with trying to have too many conversations 471 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,760 instead of not having enough. Yeah, that's good. 472 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,760 But trying to. And that's, again, that's why it 473 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,360 was helpful even have this conversation with. 474 00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:55,800 Let's get a gauge, right? How am I doing in that 475 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:56,400 department? What? 476 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,120 What's my batting average? Yeah, well, when I think about 477 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,560 what does it look like to have a relationship with adult, adult 478 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:10,440 children, 'cause our kids, our youngest is just turned 18, have 479 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,400 221 year olds. And so we're quickly moving into 480 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,000 that, that whatever that phase of life is, right, that season 481 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,120 of life where you're trying to cultivate a relationship with an 482 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:24,840 adult child. And then I, I didn't, though now 483 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,120 looking back, I didn't think when would that start? 484 00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:30,320 Like when would we transition? I just thought of them as 485 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,080 teenagers and then going off to college, I did not think of them 486 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,880 in relationship to them being adults and us having a different 487 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,160 kind of relationship. And so sometimes I, I think we 488 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:46,160 just don't have imagination around how that relationship is 489 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,320 going to grow and be cultivated and develop. 490 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,200 And it's going to be trial and error and it's going to be 491 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,680 different for for every child. And unfortunately, in the 492 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,120 teenage years, it's probably going to result revolve around 493 00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:04,120 some key important issues and where you're still, you are 494 00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:06,760 their parents, you will always be their parents, but they're in 495 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,200 your household and you're giving them rules or you're reinforcing 496 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,720 why we do things or you're calling them to action. 497 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,880 But just thinking through it as a transitional and transitional 498 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,640 phase with a, with an idea of, hey, where do we want this thing 499 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,760 to go? And if, how do we think it's 500 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,560 going to get there? You know, Whitney, does that 501 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,120 make sense to you thinking about you now as mid 20s and your 502 00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:29,720 relationship to your to your parents? 503 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,920 Yeah. And I would definitely say like 504 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,440 that transition that you're talking about, I mean, it's 505 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,920 probably around 10 years, you know, in like every milestone 506 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,560 that you had of going to college, graduating college, 507 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,680 like getting on your own insurance, getting a job, 508 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:50,240 getting your own paycheck, like each of those is its own little 509 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,760 mini transition of you just becoming more of an adult. 510 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,840 I think the challenge is, is especially as they're in those 511 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,440 later years of being a teenager, like you're trying to think 512 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,480 future, but especially as a teenager, like your brain just 513 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,320 doesn't get that far. You know, like, I think I, my 514 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,600 parents dropped me off at college and I was like, I don't 515 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,080 think I was going to make it to this point. 516 00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:14,880 You know, like I couldn't think past senior graduation. 517 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,840 And so that is the challenge of like really like building the 518 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:24,560 plane in the air as it's going and finding it along the way. 519 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,960 But I mean, the relational piece is so critical. 520 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:32,520 And I mean, I'm still in it. So I still am developing with my 521 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,400 parents and they've been very kind just to navigate that and 522 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,600 include me in conversations of this is what we'd like this 523 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,560 relationship to continue looking like. 524 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,640 And we want you to have freedom, but we are still your parents 525 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,960 and we want to weigh in. And it's just, it's not clean. 526 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,680 There is that formula. It's not there. 527 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,720 Doesn't exist. And I think the point would be 528 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,200 that that does start right? Yeah, I think one of the things 529 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,880 that I've tried to tell my kids all the time as a way to engage 530 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:01,840 them in conversation. Whatever we need to be talking 531 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:08,080 about is whatever is going on, we can make a plan and and 532 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,040 started some of that conversation is around even just 533 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:15,120 being willing and open to confessing then or dealing with 534 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,840 an issue. What wherever we are, know that 535 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,920 my my focus is all right, so what's our plan from here 536 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,800 forward so that we can actually engage and talk the way that 537 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,520 applies to here? I think to your question about 538 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,680 transitioning into that longer term relationship with our 539 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:37,560 growing adult children, if they can see us as a viable resource 540 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,840 to help figure something out to help make a plan. 541 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,760 It doesn't mean I have to have all the answers. 542 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,760 I think my dad did a great job with us, me and my sisters 543 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,200 growing up, of talking us through his thinking and how 544 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,640 he's thinking about something. And I think that's where I've 545 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,000 picked up some of that. And I always found that helpful. 546 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,760 He wasn't just saying don't do this. 547 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,400 He would say, I've always wondered what the motivation is, 548 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,120 why someone, you know, like he would go into and like, OK, I 549 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,200 haven't thought about it that way. 550 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,160 It's not just a rule, it's a logical conclusion for him. 551 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,400 And so engaging at that level because then I think we can stay 552 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,960 relevant. Hopefully, if they recognize, 553 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,640 OK, whatever's going on, I know they will think through it with 554 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,440 me and they'll bring some wisdom hopefully, and they'll bring 555 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,840 some godly counsel. But they're going to be willing 556 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,800 to engage and think through it. That's the kind of thing that 557 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,800 hopefully can continue on even as adults as they're facing new 558 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,320 things. Yeah, the ability to be like a 559 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,200 good sounding board, like because I'm at a point where I'm 560 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,160 going to my parents and I'm like, I think I already know the 561 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,280 decision that I'm going to make, but let me talk it through and 562 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,560 you just see if there's anything that you can think of that I am 563 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,680 not going to think of and then redirect me if needed. 564 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,480 And usually it's just it's the practice of let me like try to 565 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,800 be an adult for a second and then you let me know how I'm 566 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,200 doing and we'll see how it goes kind of thing. 567 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,760 But that's such a gift. So staying relevant with your 568 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,440 kids and especially staying spiritually relevant. 569 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,240 And I think that that can be a challenge for parents. 570 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:19,200 And so let's just talk about and try to encourage our parents to 571 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,400 to be followers of Jesus that their that their children would 572 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:27,400 want to imitate. You guys see a, a, a large 573 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,360 perspective from the position of being leaders in our largest 574 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,200 high school ministry. What are some successes that 575 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,440 you've seen as you've been able to partner with parents that can 576 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,400 motivate other parents? And then what are some of the 577 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,720 some of the challenges and, and how would you want to encourage 578 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:51,040 those parents who are listening? I think so. 579 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,600 I'm going to back up a little bit. 580 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,800 I know that we're mostly talking about students, so I guess that 581 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,360 would be middle school and high school, but with us having such 582 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,760 different ages in our household and Matt talking about like 583 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,320 engaging and talking to them, asking good questions. 584 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,200 We parent our girls who we know they both love Jesus and have 585 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,600 the Holy Spirit living in them very differently than we do 586 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,480 Oliver and Hope. I think they're at a great point 587 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,240 in their journey. They're asking great questions, 588 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:26,000 they're curious, but I'm just not confident of that in them. 589 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,760 So the parenting looks very different. 590 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,680 So speaking to parents out there, if you have a child that 591 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,760 you're not sure they know Jesus, this could look very different 592 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,080 for them than it does for us with our girls because they just 593 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,400 already have that relationship. So, but as far as like leading a 594 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,520 group, so I just finished up a group that I had 7th and 8th 595 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,880 graders in 24/7 and our last retreat, it was kind of 596 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,800 interesting because I was asking these really direct hard 597 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,400 questions to my girls in my group. 598 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,080 And then I was like, it dawned on me, I have not asked this to 599 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,080 my daughter, you know? And so when I came home and 600 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,520 after we had some time to process for a couple days, I 601 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,960 just sat her down and asked her a couple of really direct 602 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,520 things. And speaking about that fear 603 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,000 again, I kind of like, you know, you have to brace yourself a 604 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,680 little bit, Like, OK, it's going to be OK no matter what they 605 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,440 tell me because it'll be OK. The word can redeem anything. 606 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:30,960 And so no matter what the answer was, and it was a pretty 607 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,000 thankfully, a pretty bad, the grace of God, a pretty easy one 608 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,480 to deal with because she wasn't dealing with this specific 609 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,920 struggle. But I think it's important for 610 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,520 us to be available for them to tell us about those really hard 611 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:48,080 struggles they're going through. So anyway, that was that off 612 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,560 track a little bit in my no. No. 613 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:55,240 So basically you want to kind of practice as a parent what we are 614 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,320 encouraging the leaders to do. And so leaders are asking and 615 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,080 leaning in and we always encourage our students to, hey, 616 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,840 go talk to your parents about this, but they may not be. 617 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,719 So to the parents that are listening, just know that that 618 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,679 your student leaders are driving your students back to you. 619 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,840 And so I would ask that you do two things, one, that you'd be 620 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:23,400 willing to receive them and two, that you initiate with them 621 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:25,440 because they may not initiate with you. 622 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,440 And I think those are prime opportunities that our church is 623 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,400 trying to, to facilitate to foster that type of relationship 624 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,480 that you were talking about for the long, long term. 625 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,880 Get them talking, keep them talking. 626 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:46,600 Be a good listener, Matt and, and, and be really, really open 627 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,360 and not just driving towards some type of decision that you 628 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,639 want, but really be in a, in a real relationship. 629 00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:57,640 So questions can help with that. Yeah, and I would say too, like 630 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,960 as a leader, a big goal for me is to lend as much credibility 631 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,800 to parents as I can. You know, like for better, for 632 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,320 worse. I'm like maybe hearing it from a 633 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,440 26 year old, we'll hit them a little bit differently than it 634 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,000 does their parents. But like, ultimately, I'm want 635 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,000 to point my girls to Christ as the ultimate, the source of 636 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,120 truth. But you know, it's, it's easy, 637 00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:21,600 as we all did when we were teenagers, to complain about 638 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,040 your parents and they just don't get it and all this kind of 639 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,280 stuff. And I really do try to encourage 640 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,880 my girls. It's like, hey, just think about 641 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,960 what it's like to be a parent. First of all, to keep your kids 642 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,120 alive, like bare minimum, you know, but then just how they're 643 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,280 trying to work with you through all of these things that you're 644 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:43,080 navigating and like, it's just really hard. 645 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:44,680 And so you just got to give him grace. 646 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:49,040 Like just as you as we want you to receive grace from Christ 647 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,680 that he's had for you for all the mistakes that you've made. 648 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,960 And there is so much redemption to be had. 649 00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:57,720 Like he holds that out for your parents too, Like Jesus died for 650 00:35:57,720 --> 00:36:00,600 your parents to not be able to get it right all the time. 651 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,560 And so I think that's that's my goal and I hope that that is 652 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,880 helpful. I really appreciate that. 653 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,400 Well, I mean, what a powerful tool for your kids to be able to 654 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,160 offer grace to their parents. Yeah. 655 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,040 And for parents to be able to offer grace to their kids. 656 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,400 I mean, you know, it's a it's a gift, right? 657 00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:21,440 Matt, can you think of a couple stories of some some examples 658 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,680 have you seen of this partnership going really well? 659 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:29,280 Yeah, I think I've had a few instances over the years leading 660 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,760 24/7 and in Forge where parents have reached out to say, hey, 661 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:38,680 here's here's something that we are working on at home or I 662 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:39,960 don't know what's going on with him. 663 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,520 Matt. He seems really distant and shut 664 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,120 down and I can't get him to talk. 665 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:51,040 Can can y'all grab breakfast or something and just see, you know 666 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,400 what's going on If you can get something out of him. 667 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:59,120 I love being pulled in and that cuz in Group you would never 668 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,000 know. I don't know how they are at 669 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:02,720 home. I know how they tell me things 670 00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:06,880 are, but you wouldn't know what's going on or man, we just 671 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:13,440 had a blow up and I am as a father, that was I'm really 672 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:18,760 upset and I've, I've made that known, but I need you to engage 673 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,200 with him too, because I, I recognize I might not even be 674 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,160 hearing him out because I was so upset in the moment. 675 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,040 And now that takes a lot of awareness and humility to pull 676 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,880 in his son's leader and admit that and say that. 677 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,280 But man, the work that we were able to get done and then see 678 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,640 some movement and see some restoration, you know, see some 679 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:44,080 things happen that was cool. Or even a mom that reached out 680 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,320 and said, hey, my son tried out for this team. 681 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,280 He didn't make the team. Has he shared that in small 682 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,000 group? And no, he has not. 683 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:57,520 But it's helpful for me to know what's going on with him to be 684 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,360 able to engage in some ways and I can steer some of our group 685 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,080 conversation so that he can hear from other guys in the group 686 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,440 that maybe have had something that didn't go their way and 687 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,200 that can be helpful. And so it helps us know how to 688 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,560 work more in the moment. The context is so critical, you 689 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,200 know, like for a mom who's like, hey, just broke up with a 690 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,840 boyfriend this week or even just made bad grade on a test and 691 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,880 it's been tough. Like it's just helps me to 692 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,520 respond differently because sometimes I'm going to come into 693 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,320 a situation and, you know, be like, all right, hey, girl, I 694 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,760 got a little bit of an attitude today, but if I just have a 695 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,520 little context, it's like, it's been tough, you know? 696 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,880 And I would love to think that I would hold out that much grace 697 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,320 all the time, but it does. It just helps us to put the 698 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,160 pieces together and ask the right questions to help them 699 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,760 process through those things. Yeah. 700 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,360 I think that, I mean, like Matt was saying with our, our kids, 701 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,680 just keep them talking. Well, it's, it's that way for 702 00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,240 everybody. So just communicate, communicate 703 00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:02,280 the Lord, communicate to your community. 704 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,480 But especially with these teenagers, like tell this to 705 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,840 your leaders, Tell this to friends that you feel like are 706 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,240 on the same page and have the same values and are seeking the 707 00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:13,960 Lord. You know, like get some insight, 708 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,840 not just from us as parents, because we can have some blind 709 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,280 spots because we're so crazy about them or we're so 710 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,280 frustrated with them. Or there could be a variety of 711 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,240 things that you know. Training that vulnerability 712 00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:28,960 muscle, you know, because I, it's just easier when you're 713 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,000 younger and you're like, I mean, I'll tell anybody everything and 714 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,200 whatever comes into my head, I'll just say out loud. 715 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,160 And that really is such a valuable skill for them to carry 716 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,880 with them throughout all their different kinds of community 717 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,080 later in life. So we want to partner with 718 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,240 families. There's no way we can replace 719 00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:45,920 the work that's happening in the home. 720 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,720 Parents are critical. They're primary disciple makers 721 00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:51,920 of their kids. We want to encourage you as 722 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,960 parents. We want to ask that you just 723 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,200 pursue God with your heart, soul, mind and strength and that 724 00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:01,080 you let your students see you do that. 725 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:02,920 And that will be a compelling witness. 726 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,200 And they will have to reckon with that. 727 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,320 Whatever they think and whatever they want for their own life, 728 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,440 just like Ashley said, they're going to have to make those 729 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,120 decisions. But when you are leading, that 730 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,960 is so compelling to them and so. Matt and Ashley, just as we kind 731 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:24,000 of wrap up here, any last thoughts for the parents out 732 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,560 there that are listening that you want to just just share with 733 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,560 them, encourage them? Yeah, I mean, I've said it 734 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,960 already, but recognizes a long game and the goal is to keep 735 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,040 them talking. And that means you have to be 736 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,080 willing to listen and you have to be vulnerable yourself. 737 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:46,200 I mean, I think even just the exercise of asking them what's 738 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:50,600 going on, but knowing going into it that you might have to share 739 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,160 what's going on with you as a way to get them to open up and 740 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,360 what's going on with them. If you haven't been engaging 741 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:03,080 with your student in this way, even you know what I asked my 742 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,520 Forge group recently. All right, tell me something 743 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,640 that you are learning, that God is showing you that you're 744 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,320 learning and growing. How are you growing in your 745 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,880 faith or where's an area that you feel like you need to? 746 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,720 You should have one at least one of those the fact that you're 747 00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:21,720 asking your student that probably means that you feel 748 00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:24,800 like this is an area I need to grow and how I'm just so you 749 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,760 need to tell them, Hey, I I'm trying to be a better resource 750 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:29,680 for you. I I want to help. 751 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,400 We're in this together. How am I doing and just open and 752 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,000 starting It may if you've not had these kind of conversations, 753 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,320 typically, if they're not just burst into talk to you, you 754 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,440 can't just start making them want to talk to you, but you 755 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,280 might need to talk to them. So and understand your heart in 756 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,920 it is is to connect and be a resource for them. 757 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,800 But again, it's it. It's just a matter of deciding 758 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,560 it needs to happen. Yeah, the to the to the courage 759 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,360 piece more than the the knowledge piece. 760 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,280 No, I love that. Ashley, what about you? 761 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:08,480 Any last thoughts? I guess just to to point out 762 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,880 that we're all we're all just seeking the Lord and seeking 763 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,720 community and trying to grow, grow closer to him, but help our 764 00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:20,240 kids grow closer to him and become more like him. 765 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,480 And you know, it's just a journey. 766 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:26,960 And so I'm thankful for Grace student ministry that we have 767 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,360 this resource and we're going to keep pounding the pavement too. 768 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:35,680 And we're here for people too, if they want to talk to us as 769 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,120 well. Yeah, No, that's great. 770 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,120 That's great. Well, thank you guys for for 771 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,760 coming in. Could I ask you to just pray for 772 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:46,920 our parents just as we end and we're about to start a new 773 00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:51,440 school year, which brings a whole new set of relationships 774 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,600 and challenges. But like where we started with 775 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,920 opportunities, it brings a whole new set of opportunities to 776 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,200 really spiritually form our students. 777 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,200 And so let's let's pray for them as we start a start a new year. 778 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:10,720 Father, we, we are so thankful for your faithfulness and your 779 00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:16,160 patience. And even as we think about the 780 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:20,280 blessings that you've provided in these students that you've 781 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:25,000 given us to help shepherd and help disciple God, ultimately we 782 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:31,120 know it's in your hands and that you offer you offer your spirit 783 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:36,400 to do the work. But God in your, in your plan, 784 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,880 you see a role for us to play. And so I just thank you that we 785 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,480 have that opportunity, even though you know, we'll mess it 786 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:47,720 up and we're not perfect. We don't have all the answers. 787 00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:50,080 You still want us in the game. And so, God, I just pray that 788 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:56,360 you would continue to give us courage, wisdom, and patience as 789 00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:01,640 we seek to disciple these students, that we would not be 790 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:09,400 held back by fear, but we would instead be emboldened by your 791 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,920 spirit at work and the promises that you lay out in front of us. 792 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,880 So God, I just pray for our parents and the conversations 793 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,200 that are happening, the conversations, conversations 794 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:24,640 that need to happen that you would, you would just give 795 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:29,240 guidance and wisdom and be in those moments God, and that we 796 00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:31,640 would see these students drawn closer to you. 797 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,760 And as we disciple them, God, you're doing just as much work 798 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,280 in each one of us. And so I pray that you would 799 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:43,480 give us a hunger for your word for ourselves, that we would be 800 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:48,920 seeking, seeking your wisdom and your guidance and not looking 801 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,720 for strength within ourselves because we don't have it, that 802 00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:57,480 we would be dependent on you. So we give all this to you and 803 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:02,960 we praise you because you are worthy of it all, and we lift 804 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,400 all this up in Jesus name. Amen. 805 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:07,120 Thank you guys. Thank you.