1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:09,160 These are lives, these are believers in Christ, These are 2 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,520 souls that are now, you know, to be absent from the bodies, to be 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:13,680 present with the Lord. All that. 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,840 It's just so visceral, even on this natural land. 5 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,360 But the idea that is that in two years, in five years, in 10 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,320 years, you know, Lord willing, whatever, you would just be 7 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,080 walking through a field and you would just see. 8 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,560 You would see these stones and just the idea and the 9 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:34,160 anticipation of the beauty of the dead in crash rising one 10 00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:37,120 day. Hello, friends. 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,320 Well, welcome back to the Grace Church Members Podcast here in 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,280 the studio with our producer, Whitney, How are you doing? 13 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:44,360 Good. How are you, Scott? 14 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,360 Good to see you again. And our special guest today is 15 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,920 Miss Jennifer Dill. And we are talking about natural 16 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,760 burial and getting an update as we start the year on a good 17 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,400 number of changes that have happened since the last time we 18 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,000 talked to you about it. So, Jennifer, thanks for being 19 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,520 here. Thanks for having me. 20 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,080 Yeah, it's good to be here. Well, you know, part of this is 21 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,280 personal for me. I got a chance to be a part of 22 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,520 the natural burial at the end of last year. 23 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:14,360 And when I was out on our natural burial land, I just 24 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,560 realized how much things have changed. 25 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:21,320 And we just want to give people an update recognizing that some 26 00:01:21,320 --> 00:01:26,400 folks may not even realize why we have this ministry, the scope 27 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,680 and extent of it, and really the roles, key roles that volunteers 28 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,360 play. And I know you get to work with 29 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,880 a lot of great people. So you're the perfect person to 30 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,520 have in to talk us through this. So let's just start at the 31 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,000 beginning, if that's OK. Is that all right? 32 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,840 So why? What is natural burial and why 33 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:46,080 are we doing it? Sure. 34 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:52,000 So natural burial, how we see it at Grace is the logistics. 35 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,440 It's being buried and it's snow embalming. 36 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,800 For us, that's that's what makes it natural. 37 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,360 There are other places across the US that talk about green 38 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:07,480 barrels, etcetera, but for us it's no embalming, no vault 39 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:12,800 coffin and it's just a more simple alternative. 40 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:17,920 It's not the only way that we say someone can be buried at 41 00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:21,200 Grace Church, but it is a way. And that's an important thing 42 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:22,040 for people to. Hear. 43 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,440 Now, this is not something that we're saying everybody should do 44 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,560 even, but it is a a ministry and a service that we wanted to 45 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,160 provide. Why? 46 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,080 Why was that important? Yeah, so we wanted to make sure 47 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:39,560 one, that the church should just be a part of every stage of of 48 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:45,440 life, including death. We look a lot at folks who when 49 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,720 babies are born and you the big milestones. 50 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:54,640 And we started to see that the church started to not be very 51 00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:58,280 involved in death and the burial process. 52 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:03,880 And so we wanted to make sure that we continued to be involved 53 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,800 in that process. Yeah, that seemed like an odd 54 00:03:07,640 --> 00:03:11,360 disconnect from the way the church is really involved in 55 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,200 every other area of life. Then maybe just some some 56 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,760 cultural norms it kind of taken over. 57 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,080 And so is a little, is it fair to say it's a little bit of a a 58 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,280 correction, at least in the way that the church had been 59 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,200 thinking and operating? Absolutely. 60 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,520 I would think it's kind of going in a way some of the mainstream 61 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:34,880 culture that that we have today. You know, it's rare for a church 62 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:41,800 and church family to be involved in the death and burial process 63 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,480 as much as they have been with what we've seen in natural 64 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:46,400 burial. Yeah. 65 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:48,520 Especially a large church. Correct. 66 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,040 But but it's interesting you drive through any part of the 67 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,280 low country South Carolina, you see small town, you see small 68 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:56,680 church. What are you going to see always 69 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,040 there The. Tombstones and the graveyard on 70 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:00,040 the back. Yeah, yeah. 71 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,560 So we're kind of going back to some roots here. 72 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:07,400 Yeah, I remember when we first started all of this, like it was 73 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,880 just, it felt strange, but I was also like, OK, wait. 74 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,760 This is actually a very normal, in fact a very guaranteed part 75 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,680 of life that I haven't really talked about much and I haven't 76 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,880 really thought about much. And I think that that's true for 77 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,560 a lot of people. And then it even has this 78 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,920 sensitivity or taboo of we can't, we can't talk about that, 79 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,800 you know. So I think it's been just cool 80 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,280 for me to get a window into it and just that we're talking 81 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:37,200 about this as a more normal thing. 82 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,880 And I mean, it helps me not to be afraid of it. 83 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,760 And as believers like, that's certainly the reality for us. 84 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:44,080 Right. Absolutely. 85 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,000 I mean, I guess it's fair to say that there are some financial 86 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,640 considerations and there are environmental considerations, 87 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:51,880 but those aren't the main reasons. 88 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:53,760 The main reasons are the spiritual reasons. 89 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:57,280 Yes, the financial stewardship, you know, funeral cost can be 90 00:04:57,280 --> 00:05:01,160 very high for a more traditional type of funeral. 91 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:08,120 So we, we keep our cost at $2500 and that includes, you know, the 92 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:13,280 service, the burial, the pine box, which is made by volunteers 93 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:16,920 in our church flowers and we'll get into maybe some of the 94 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:22,720 details in, in a little bit, but that's what that cost includes. 95 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,960 And then like you said, the environment, you know it since 96 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,920 it eliminates embalming and vaults and grave liners. 97 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,680 You know, those things, even though a lot of people use them, 98 00:05:34,280 --> 00:05:37,120 they are kind of harmful to the environment. 99 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,960 And so natural decomposition is just good conservation that 100 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,280 we've seen as as we've done this so. 101 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:49,280 Yeah, and certainly I think just the idea of embalming is this 102 00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:53,480 idea of we want to keep the body around and right as believers, 103 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,960 like we're letting go of our earthly bodies 'cause we believe 104 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:00,680 that we get new heavenly bodies, you know, And so even that idea 105 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,680 is very representative of something that we want to be 106 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,280 true for our faith. That's helpful just to to hear 107 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:09,600 all that. And for those of you listening, 108 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,440 if you want a little bit more of the why we are doing natural 109 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,600 burial, we did an episode with Matt Kelly in 2022. 110 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,240 I think that's episode 5 if you want to go back and listen to 111 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,640 that. But Jennifer, will you just kind 112 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,160 of recap a little bit for us? Just how did we get here and 113 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:31,160 into this world of thinking about death and burial and how 114 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:32,840 to do that well as the church? Sure. 115 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:39,400 So I believe Matt Kelly, our Harrison Bridge campus pastor 116 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:45,080 and one of our staff elders had this idea years ago and because 117 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:50,080 he went to a funeral that was a natural burial of one of his 118 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:55,000 close family members and was just blown away at how much 119 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,520 involvement that everybody had at the burial and wanted to 120 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,160 potentially bring this idea to Grace Church. 121 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:07,880 And so over the years, we did some research and kind of just 122 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,400 kept meeting about it and putting together a potential 123 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,440 plan. And then we were able to acquire 124 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:18,080 some land out in the Piedmont Powdersville area. 125 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,720 So that is where our natural burial land is. 126 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:28,560 And so he was able to kind of start that process of talking 127 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,720 with Anderson County and getting everything going logistically 128 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,680 there. And then on the care side of 129 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:41,000 things, we put together some staff and what we thought maybe 130 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:47,120 a good burial could look like, but we weren't sure until it 131 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,760 happened. And then right when we kind of 132 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:56,640 had what we thought was somewhat of an OK plan, we did have a 133 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,440 family out in Spartanburg request natural burial. 134 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,600 And so we had to ask, are we ready for this? 135 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,880 And we said, OK, let's, let's do it. 136 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,800 And when was that? That was in 2021. 137 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:13,840 September of 2021. OK, so we've got a plan now we 138 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,640 have we know there's a need now there's an immediate need and so 139 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:21,920 we just began to put that plan into action and then make some 140 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:23,800 you know adjustments along the way. 141 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:28,800 So tell us a little bit catches thin up on the last really 3 1/2 142 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:30,040 years. Sure. 143 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,000 How many burials? Maybe some of the changes that 144 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,960 have happened. First of all, how many acres do 145 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:37,720 we have? We have 12 acres. 146 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,120 OK. So it's a pretty good, really 147 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,440 good plot of land. And so then tell us a little bit 148 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,640 about the last 3 1/2 years since that first? 149 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,840 Burial. Thankfully, we have some 150 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:52,360 wonderful volunteers who have been able to serve in all sorts 151 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,800 of ways. So now we've kind of gotten a 152 00:08:55,800 --> 00:09:01,840 system put in place as to when somebody is in need of a natural 153 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,840 burial. We are able to work with a local 154 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:10,160 Funeral Home, Palmetto Mortuary. We work with them as far as like 155 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:15,800 service planning date and time, and we make sure one of our 156 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,400 caskets, like I said, it is done by volunteer, gets delivered. 157 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:25,320 Those volunteers deliver the casket to Palmetto Mortuary and 158 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,360 then we make sure that the land is is prepared. 159 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,120 And then we also make sure that our flower team is ready. 160 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:40,240 So we have ladies from, you know, all over every campus who 161 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:46,960 are prepared pretty much at any moment to go out and put flowers 162 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,360 together. And I apologize, I said, ladies, 163 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,960 there are a couple of men that love to help with this as well, 164 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,440 so. And tell us a little bit about 165 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,080 land. What does that mean to prepare 166 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:58,000 the land? Sure. 167 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:05,520 So it means we have somebody who goes out and uses a tractor to 168 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,360 dig the hole. And I say that that's kind of 169 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,360 been done lately. But we have actually also had 170 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,760 folks, a couple of families who have hand dug their own family 171 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:20,320 members grave. We've had that done for a older 172 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,240 gentleman, I believe, and then somebody who's quite a bit 173 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,320 younger. And so that was very moving to 174 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:34,200 just be able to be part of them wanting to hand dig their loved 175 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,680 ones grave. And so it it depends on what the 176 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:41,720 family would like or requests and then preparing the land, 177 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,960 meaning also just making sure now we do keep it natural. 178 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:52,200 So there are still, you know, bushes that aren't trimmed. 179 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,920 And we do like for things to kind of grow, like I said, 180 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:01,080 naturally we do try and make sure that there's a path cut to 181 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,920 the graves and to the area where their loved one is buried. 182 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,760 But then for the most part though, it is, we don't go out 183 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:11,800 there. There we don't have a 184 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:13,720 groundskeeper. That's right. 185 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,240 That's part of what makes it natural. 186 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,040 Correct. And so we we ask that nothing 187 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,680 non natural or something that you would have to kind of keep 188 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:27,840 up with is placed out there because we're we're not out 189 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,440 there 24 seconds. And we really just want to keep 190 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:39,280 the focus on putting your hope in God and making sure that 191 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,960 that's that's who you're connecting with through this 192 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:43,960 process. Yes, it's great. 193 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,880 Go absolutely go visit your loved one. 194 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:51,040 And we want to make sure that we are also connecting ourselves to 195 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,160 Christ right in this moment. And those are some of the 196 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:55,840 updates that we've been able to do. 197 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,360 I think there's some some signage now, there's some 198 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:03,680 fencing, there's some gravel. So it's easy to get in and out. 199 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:06,800 And like I said, there's some paths because part of what's 200 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,800 happened over the last few years is we've had a a number of 201 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,800 burials. How how many burials have we 202 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:13,560 had? Short. 203 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:15,440 We've had 30 burials. Wow. 204 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,640 And so you started down the process of identifying some of 205 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,360 the volunteers. What is what is your role in all 206 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,560 of this? And you know what happens when 207 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,680 someone in our church passes away and you get a phone call, 208 00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:33,720 like just kind of walk us through that process as well? 209 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,800 So my role, my role in staff is the care and recovery and 210 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,600 outreach director and then natural burial coordinator. 211 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:48,000 So I help campuses and families do some of the coordination. 212 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:54,680 So I will help walk the campus staff through some of those 213 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:59,760 pieces such as, you know, how to work with the Funeral Home and 214 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,840 what the order of service could look like if they're needs to be 215 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:10,720 music or not out of the land. Do family members want to help 216 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,080 put the dirt back into the grave after the holes already been 217 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,760 dug? So I help kind of resource the 218 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:21,680 campus and the family and some of the logistics of natural 219 00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:24,200 burial because it's not something we do every day. 220 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,640 It's something that it's foreign to a lot of people, but yet when 221 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,720 we get there and we start the process, it's not as foreign as 222 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,560 as you think it is. So you're communicating with the 223 00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:40,600 family and the campuses, making those connections, and then what 224 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,240 about the volunteer teams? Sure. 225 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:47,640 So Angie Wolf on the care and recovery team, she is probably 226 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,600 the volunteer coordinator of the natural burial. 227 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,080 She gets the folks who do the flowers in place. 228 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,640 She makes sure the pine box is going to be delivered. 229 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,680 She makes sure that the hole is going to be dug. 230 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,680 Any other pieces, special pieces of the service that families 231 00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:11,440 need, such as musicians, or if there just needs to be extra 232 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,400 tissues out of the land or extra water bottles? 233 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,600 All those little details someone's thinking through. 234 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,760 So we have, we do have some seating out of the land and we 235 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:27,600 have guys who helped set up. So Angie Wolf gets those things 236 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,240 together. While we really like to keep the 237 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:36,280 graveside services small, really around 30 people, we do have 238 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:41,640 seats, but again, only for about 20 to 30 people because we want 239 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,680 to keep it small and intimate and personable. 240 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,520 A lot of folks have elected to do a graveside service of small 241 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,200 intimate family and friends, but then do a larger service, maybe 242 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,920 at their campus, right? Yeah. 243 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,440 And I think people in a traditional air quotes their 244 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,440 model, sure you might have a, you might have a graveside, you 245 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:04,280 might have a service followed by a graveside. 246 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,240 So I think people have an image of what that could be like, 247 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:13,080 except this is a lot more. It just flows. 248 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,400 It's informal, right? It's, I mean, it's natural not 249 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,840 to overuse that, right? It's phrasing, right? 250 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,280 And I guess we should, we should really say our friends at 251 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,080 Palmetto have been amazing. We could not do this process 252 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,640 without them. Absolutely. 253 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,240 But then also that does dictate because it's natural burial, 254 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,280 like we have a little bit of a time frame that we're working 255 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:32,880 on. Is that right? 256 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,640 Correct. Yes, we ideally we really like 257 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:41,840 to bury somebody two to five days after someone has died 258 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:49,080 because there is no embalming process, the body can decompose 259 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,360 pretty quickly. And so we want to make sure we 260 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,680 are able to provide the service within that time frame. 261 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,520 That's really cool. Jennifer and you and I are both 262 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,600 detail people too. And so it is a form of care to 263 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,960 take care of the details with people as well. 264 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,800 And in the midst of grief, you know, nobody just wants to be 265 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,240 planning all those things. And so even just the tissues 266 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,560 that are already there are super meaningful. 267 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,040 And yeah, if you guys are listening and this just feels 268 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:23,120 weird and unfamiliar, that's OK. This is a little weird. 269 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,280 And we're all, we are very much still learning. 270 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,200 And it's been a process of learning for us. 271 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:32,160 But I think we'd love to just hear, I think, some stories to 272 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,080 even just to demonstrate like how this has been impactful for 273 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,120 our people, how it has produced fruit. 274 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,720 And then you talked about just some of the families who have 275 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,680 gotten to dig a grave. And I had the opportunity to to 276 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:49,080 talk to one of those men and he just shared about like the 277 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:53,000 visceral task of that, like the physical work and the 278 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,720 opportunity to participate actually helped him grieve and 279 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,840 process in that moment. So just what are some of those 280 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,120 other examples of in these 30 burials that we've had, how 281 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,480 that's helped our people? Absolutely. 282 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:07,760 And I appreciate you saying that. 283 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:12,359 We are still learning. I mean, so we've had 30 burials 284 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,440 and I do feel like every burial there's a piece that's been 285 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:22,280 different for each one. My logistics type a brain, I 286 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,920 don't always like that. But then when I get out there to 287 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,880 the service or hear how the service went, it reminds me 288 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,920 like, OK, this is what we're doing as a church. 289 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:39,200 So and it matters, right? So we mentioned that the, a 290 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,400 tractor or somebody comes out and digs the hole. 291 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,640 Well, when usually when you arrive at the service, you'll 292 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:52,680 see the, the mountain of dirt, We give the families an option 293 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,600 to put that dirt back into the grave during the service. 294 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:01,640 And some folks are very intimidated by that mountain of 295 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,400 dirt. And I understand, I mean, when 296 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:08,440 you arrive, even if you've done this 30 times or more, it's 297 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,240 you're honoring the life of a loved one of someone who is no 298 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:17,160 longer physically here on Earth. And it's very an emotional 299 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,080 experience. And then you add this piece on 300 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:25,360 to it as well. Can make it overwhelming in a 301 00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:28,240 sense and so. By the way, that's part of the 302 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:29,720 reason why we want to do this podcast. 303 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,360 Yep. Is even just hearing the 304 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:34,960 description of it because you, you know, chances are if you're 305 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:36,640 listening, you may not have seen this. 306 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,480 We just want to demystify it a little bit. 307 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,440 Absolutely. You know, just so we can embrace 308 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,200 all the the strengths, the strengths of it. 309 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:43,920 So. Right. 310 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:48,240 Yeah, keep going. Yeah, so seeing the the piece 311 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:54,320 that always gets me the most is when families do decide to help 312 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,800 put the dirt back into the grave. 313 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:02,000 And honestly, actually most all families end up putting at least 314 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:07,600 a scoop or two into the grave when it first hits the the 315 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,880 casket into and into the ground. It makes it very real for 316 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:21,600 people, but it also seems to signify a release of hope and a 317 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:28,360 release of I know that Christ is with me in this process. 318 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:31,680 I don't, I don't know how else better to explain it, but it's 319 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:37,880 just that noise of, of hearing. It kind of starts some of that 320 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:42,040 grieving process and then it's interesting. 321 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:47,680 You'll hear as the process goes on because it is a big mound of 322 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,400 dirt. People start to tell stories 323 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,600 about the one that they are burying. 324 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,280 They start to laugh. They they may even start to cry 325 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,760 more. It is a release of emotion in 326 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:06,200 ways that you couldn't ever really name until you're out 327 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:10,800 there seeing it. And and participating in it as 328 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,600 well. And there is something about 329 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:17,720 being embodied creatures that, you know, we like to separate. 330 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,080 We're physical and we're mental and we're emotional, and those 331 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,200 are like separate categories. But there is something about 332 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:30,440 when like you get to participate and contribute to the ceremony 333 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,240 in the tradition that's happening like that it they all 334 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,520 interlock together and so doing a physical task of putting dirt 335 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:43,480 into a hole turns on something emotional and like that's really 336 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,080 good and healthy for us and even. 337 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:46,800 Doing it in community? Yeah. 338 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,320 Doing it with family, Doing it with people that know and love 339 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,600 you, a shared experience, a shared grief, a shared morning. 340 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,520 It's a really, it's a great service to the friends and 341 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,840 family to be able to enter into that grief in some ways that 342 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,560 are, are challenging. You know, you always say, let me 343 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,280 know if there's anything I can do for you. 344 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,440 Knowing they don't really, I'm going to take them a meal, but 345 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:11,840 what, what am I going to do for them? 346 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,760 You know, the chances of us being able to really sit down 347 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,720 and talk through memories and grieve, particularly in those 348 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,840 first few days because there's so many details. 349 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:24,080 And what I'm hearing say as this begins to to unlock a lot of 350 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:28,160 that in a, in a even a more free sense because of the physical 351 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,240 nature of committing to or returning the body back to the 352 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:33,120 ground. Right. 353 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,160 Absolutely. And even like I think I just 354 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:41,280 mentioned about even having stories that are shared and 355 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:46,840 laughter and even laughing that it takes a while to get the dirt 356 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:52,200 back into the hole. I mean, on a summer day, I've 357 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,840 seen men out there and in their suit jacket have to take their 358 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,560 suit jacket off and take their tie off and they start laughing. 359 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:05,600 And it, it again releases almost some tension as well, that it's 360 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:13,800 OK to grieve with hope and to grieve with a piece of your own 361 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:19,360 humanity in it. We have, we have children, kids 362 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:21,520 who love to help with this process. 363 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,840 We have shovels that are a bit smaller for them. 364 00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:29,880 We had, I remember one family, they did a great job at getting 365 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,360 a lot of logistics handled and they were really, really wanting 366 00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:37,000 to honor their loved 1. And so they had some some 367 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,520 specifics that they wanted out at their land in it during their 368 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,720 service. And then I look back and notice 369 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:52,400 that there were five daughters and sisters and nieces and I, 370 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,240 I'd be honest, I'm not sure what we were waiting on, but they 371 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,640 just started with the dirt. And usually it's, I mean, it's 372 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,840 just been opposite where it's usually one of the adults and 373 00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:07,560 they come. But those five girls started the 374 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,320 the process and just, and they were very respectful. 375 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,160 It's like they, you know, they knew exactly what to do. 376 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,800 And I remember the one of the parents saying, oh, I guess 377 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,160 we're starting, you know, like, let's let's do this. 378 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,360 Yeah. What do you think that does just 379 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:27,040 for the kids? You know, again, just that idea 380 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,400 of not like growing up and not feeling like death is allowed, 381 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,520 you know, like how, how is this kind of helpful to them, do you 382 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:35,560 think? Absolutely. 383 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:43,280 I think it exposes them to a very natural and like you said 384 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,320 earlier, guaranteed part of life. 385 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:51,520 It helps include them in a process to make it almost for 386 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,600 some less scary, less intimidating. 387 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,480 I'm not saying that they don't treat it with a level of respect 388 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:05,920 and at the same time they see, Oh OK, mom is now with Jesus. 389 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,640 I helped put the dirt on. We've had several kids like turn 390 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:16,040 around and say, did you see did you see I I helped mom and 391 00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:19,440 meaning like go be with Jesus because they were the ones 392 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,320 helping. So it gives them a sense of 393 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,520 partnership with their with their family. 394 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,320 In a very developmentally appropriate way. 395 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,480 Like there's parts of all of that that they're not ready for, 396 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,880 you know, and they learn as they get older, but this is as much 397 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,120 as they can understand. But it's not, you can't be a 398 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:41,040 part of this. This is not for you. 399 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,840 Like this is something that we're all a part of. 400 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,400 Absolutely. And it's not. 401 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,040 And we've had some families and kids out there who decide they 402 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,560 don't want to help place the dirt and that's OK too. 403 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,440 We want to make sure that people don't feel pressured. 404 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,000 We've had some folks who don't want to do the dirt and then we 405 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,600 as a staff will say, well then we'll we'll take care of this 406 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,560 later. That's OK. 407 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,840 Which is also emblematic of what the Church is for for its 408 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:10,600 people. Right. 409 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,120 Well, and one, I want you to tell a few more stories and I 410 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:18,760 also have another question, but one particularly beautiful story 411 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,880 that I heard was father and son that had a broken, a broken 412 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,600 relationship for a long time. If I'm not mistaken, it was like 413 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,080 decades. And there was some 414 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,680 reconciliation that the sickness and illness brought in towards 415 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,640 the end of life. And so this reconciliation 416 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,960 happens and then death happens and then the burial happens. 417 00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:45,240 And then you can correct me if I have any of these details wrong. 418 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:51,240 Then the son wanted to bury his dad just kind of all by himself, 419 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:58,000 like he wanted that long, slow process to just be this 420 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,160 culmination of this reconciliation. 421 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,080 And I imagine he was having a great conversation with God and 422 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:04,440 his dad and all that right there. 423 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,840 But it's just a beautiful picture of, I don't really know 424 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:14,080 of another way to serve that son in that situation right at that 425 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,040 time, in that loss, then giving him the privilege of doing that. 426 00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:20,240 Absolutely. One thing we haven't talked 427 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,680 about, which I think is also a really beautiful part of the 428 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:28,960 community piece, is talk about how the the casket gets put in 429 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,000 the ground. Sure. 430 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,560 Yeah. So when Palmetto Mortuary 431 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:40,040 arrives, we there are slats that are placed across the whole of 432 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:46,280 the grave and we place the casket onto those those slats. 433 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,000 And then there are three to four, lack of better term, rope 434 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:58,680 that is underneath the casket. And so to in order to bury, we 435 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,840 ask any family members who feel like they are physically able to 436 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,200 surround the casket. So usually there's about four on 437 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:14,960 each side who are able to lower the casket themselves into the 438 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,400 grave. And so it is, there's no machine 439 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,720 to lower it. It is all by family and or 440 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,720 friends, you know, community members. 441 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:31,920 We've even had a 10 year old who you know, wasn't able to fully 442 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:38,000 physically lower, but his family member was right behind him 443 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,640 hoping to lower. And so we Yep, we rely on the 444 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:48,200 family friends and or staff to help lower the the loved 1 into 445 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,680 the ground. So yes, absolutely. 446 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:58,480 I mean even even that piece of it is is done by by the church. 447 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,520 Yeah, that is really sweet. That's cool, yeah. 448 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:07,440 What other stories do you do you have just of meaningful moments 449 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,400 from the past few years? Absolutely. 450 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,160 There was actually one recently that really stood out to to just 451 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,440 me personally. We had a family who decided to 452 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,680 bury their infant. And so as we were just talking 453 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:28,040 about even the the lowering of the casket is done by the church 454 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,120 and volunteers. Well, in this case, the dad 455 00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:36,440 decided to get into the hole himself with the mom at 456 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:41,200 graveside and to lower the casket into the grave while he 457 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:47,000 was standing in it. And he and his wife and others 458 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,640 started to sing over the casket and over the the grave site 459 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,520 while standing in the grave. And it it was moving. 460 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:05,360 It was very, very powerful to see that done and which wouldn't 461 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,200 maybe have gotten done with a more. 462 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,480 Traditional funeral service. I'm not saying that they that 463 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,320 they can't also have special parts because I've been of parts 464 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,920 of amazing traditional Funeral services, but because this was 465 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:28,560 done naturally and he was able to lower his own child into the 466 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:34,640 grave really was moving yeah to me and I think helped the family 467 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,360 in their process as. Well, and I think, you know, one 468 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,480 thing is it, it wasn't all planned, you know, like you 469 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,480 don't really know until you get there some of these details and 470 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,440 just to see kind of the spirit lead and the intimacy and the 471 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,840 uniqueness again, all very appropriate. 472 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,760 And that's why, you know, we have Jennifer and her team and 473 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,600 pastoral staff. We're, we're making sure we're 474 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,440 guarding the appropriateness and the reverence and the sanctity 475 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,760 of the moment, but also giving freedom and permission for, for 476 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,240 families to begin and continue the grieving process in, in 477 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,160 unique ways. Can you just as we wrap up, can 478 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,040 you tell us a little bit about how these graves are marked? 479 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:22,160 Yes. So we have like a better term, I 480 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:27,000 call them river rock stones. So they're just flat smooth 481 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:32,040 stones outside each grave marker at the at the top. 482 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,280 And I order them and there's just, it's very simple. 483 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:40,320 We have the name and the birth date and the death date. 484 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,400 Sometimes we may include a scripture reference, but that is 485 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:51,560 the just like Psalm, you know, 46, 10 and whatever that that 486 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,800 may be. Sure, we don't put the full 487 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,800 Scripture reference. It's just very simple and and 488 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:03,880 not overly right done. Yeah, not overly manicured and 489 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,160 not overly kept in some ways, right. 490 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,160 And, and one thing that you, I noticed, cuz it had been over a 491 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,320 year, better part of a year, maybe even a year and a half 492 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,080 since I've been out there from one visit to the next. 493 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,360 And you know, what's, what's really great is you watch the 494 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:25,000 erosion of the mounds of dirt that just over time just kind of 495 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:30,000 returned back to Flat Earth. And you can, you can see because 496 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,720 we, we do bury in rows and you can just see, you know, one 497 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,080 mound is a little higher than the next one and it's a little 498 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:37,320 lower. It's a little lower and a little 499 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,600 lower. And there was something that was 500 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,480 tangible about that. There was something really 501 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,920 emotive to me when I, when I was out there. 502 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,440 One, just the reference that these are these are lives, these 503 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,240 are believers in Christ. These are souls that are now, 504 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,040 you know, to be absent from the bodies to be present with the 505 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,680 Lord all that it's just so visceral, even on this natural 506 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,480 land. But the idea that is that in two 507 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,120 years, in five years, in 10 years, you know, Lord willing, 508 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,800 whatever, that you would just be walking through a field, right? 509 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,840 And you would just see, you would see these stones and, and 510 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:20,320 just the idea and the anticipation of, of the beauty 511 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,120 of the dead in Christ rising one day. 512 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,560 I mean, I, I get Terry just thinking about what that picture 513 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,640 could look like should the Lord Terry and there be thousands of 514 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,800 people, but just there's something, again, all very 515 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:37,600 biblically based, God honoring, Christ centered, Spirit 516 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,440 empowered and community driven about all of that. 517 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,640 We're just, we're just excited to just kind of share that with 518 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,760 you guys. Jennifer, what else should we 519 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,360 know? Anything that we can be 520 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,360 volunteering for, anything we could be planning or praying 521 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,800 for. Just kind of put a wrap on this 522 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:56,880 update for us. Absolutely. 523 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:02,120 We are always looking at ways to continue to honor those who have 524 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,760 died. We are looking at ways that we 525 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:13,120 can continue to keep the keep the property natural and as is, 526 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:18,200 but provide some sort of, I'm not going to say landscape 527 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,200 architecture because that's not what we're doing, but maybe a 528 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,520 little, a few more trees or a few more benches. 529 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:32,280 Or we want it to be in a place where people can go and walk, 530 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,760 walk the land, to pray in the land and to be a place that 531 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,400 people can visit, you know, their loved ones, while also 532 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,720 keeping it true to its environment. 533 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,800 We are potentially, I'm not sure, looking at maybe an 534 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,160 amphitheater out there to to have another place that we could 535 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,960 have a service. Potentially a little larger 536 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,920 service then. Potentially, OK, it's in the 537 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,760 process, but it's also just changing sure as as needs arise. 538 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,680 Well, and I mean, we said this earlier, but there's not a whole 539 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,840 lot of examples, right? Correct. 540 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:12,040 Right. So we're not there. 541 00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:15,280 We didn't Google and then just come up with the best ideas, 542 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:16,719 like some of this we're just making up. 543 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,239 Yeah. Building the plane in the air, 544 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,199 if you know. Yes, absolutely. 545 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,560 But things like maybe having some tea olive bushes out there 546 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:30,600 that smell really nice, but also would be able to withstand the 547 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,480 elements of, you know, nature and not us having to keep up 548 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,560 with a lot. We would love to, you know, 549 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:44,960 somehow look at different ways of having memorial services of 550 00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:48,320 for folks in our congregation and, and some of those community 551 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,560 partners. So we do have some things that 552 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:56,040 we are continuing to work on and think through and, and in a way 553 00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:01,080 be creative with, but also remembering that, you know, this 554 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,800 isn't a cemetery. I'm, I'm not the heads 555 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:10,120 groundskeeper at it either. And so thinking of ways that we 556 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:15,440 can honor loved ones while also being good stewards of, of the 557 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:16,440 land. Yeah. 558 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,960 Well, I want to commend you and your team just for just working 559 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:25,760 diligently to love and care for these families and on the big 560 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:31,000 picture, create, create something that is unique and 561 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:32,880 beneficial in so many different ways. 562 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,320 And hopefully even as you're listening to this, if you're 563 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,400 hearing about this for the first time or if you're just being 564 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,520 reminded, it just helps us connect the life and death 565 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,920 process to Scripture, to the life of the church, and to 566 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,640 really the hope and reality of heaven. 567 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,280 And if if nothing else, hopefully we've accomplished 568 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:57,240 that in our conversation today. So we thanks for helping guide 569 00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:00,440 some of our discussion. Jennifer, you're the best 570 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,160 people. If they have questions, they go 571 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,880 to our website. They can e-mail you. 572 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,840 And yeah, you know where to find this. 573 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,360 So thanks for listening. We really appreciate you guys. 574 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:11,520 We'll talk to you again soon.