1 00:00:04,520 --> 00:00:07,840 Most everything we do with our money is transactional. 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,280 So then it would make sense that when we get to giving, it also 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,400 feels transactional. And I think that's the first 4 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:19,520 major roadblock and hang up in thinking about our money and our 5 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,000 finances as a discipleship issue is to get out of the 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,880 transactional mindset and think of it through a transformational 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,480 lens. And so if you think about 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:34,240 reframing the question, so how does my money shape my 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,360 relationship with God? Is it helping or is it hurting? 10 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:42,640 Like that really is the question that then every answer can can 11 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:48,120 flow down. Hi everyone, and welcome back to 12 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:49,800 the Grace Church Members Podcast. 13 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:53,200 I'm Whitney Manus, and around here we like to keep things 14 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,440 fair, so we're putting our very own Scott Mozingo in the guest 15 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,280 seat today so that he can practice taking a little bit of 16 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,280 what he's usually dishing out. No, we're kidding. 17 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,160 But when Scott is not podcasting, he is helping our 18 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,080 church think well about generosity. 19 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,240 It is a subject that he's passionate about and more 20 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,320 importantly, that Jesus is passionate about. 21 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,080 And as we're recording, we have Thanksgiving coming up, closely 22 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,720 followed by Black Friday, Cyber Monday, and then we'll be 23 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,960 posting this on Giving Tuesday. And it's kind of interesting. 24 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:26,280 Even that order of operations says a lot about how we're 25 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,200 thinking about generosity in itself. 26 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:30,760 We're going to eat a lot and then we're going to shop a lot, 27 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,440 and we'll put a little altruism at the end to make us feel a 28 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,920 little bit better. So it's evident that we do have 29 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,040 some work to do, but Scott has some thoughts to help us reframe 30 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,680 that paradigm. Scott, it's always good to see 31 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:43,520 you. Thanks for being here. 32 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,080 Yeah, thank you and thank you for that welcome. 33 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,000 You're right, it is the the order is a little interesting, 34 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,160 although not surprising. And this notion of giving 35 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,280 Tuesday, I was very resistant to for a number of years just 36 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,280 because I felt it was super gimmicky. 37 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,840 And just like, OK, if you got anything leftover after all the 38 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,960 stuff that you were convinced that you needed through all of 39 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,760 the Black Friday ads, then just throw a little money in the 40 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,800 plate right to a towards a good cause. 41 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,800 But you know, then I started started thinking, if, if people 42 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,680 are thinking about giving and if the door is cracked, then why 43 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,080 don't we just like stick our foot in the door and see if we 44 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,480 can just push it open a little bit further. 45 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:29,760 So that's what we're going to try to do today. 46 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:33,360 Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I mean, even just the 47 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:39,000 the name Giving Tuesday like that, there's a little bit of a 48 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,360 difference between, let me just give something like there's all 49 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,160 these charities, there's all these very valuable nonprofits, 50 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:46,520 and I'll just give something to them. 51 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,160 But that's a little bit different than this idea of 52 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,320 generosity. And I've already said that word 53 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,640 12 times. So tell us talk a little bit 54 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:55,920 about that. Just how are we trying to 55 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,400 separate out those two things? Yeah, I would love to, I would 56 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,960 love to rename it Generous Tuesday. 57 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,360 And honestly, as believers, it, it really should be generous 58 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,560 every day. And I think that's the point. 59 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,160 And so, but if we could start by parsing out the difference 60 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,760 between the two, to me, you know, giving is a transaction 61 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,800 and it's, it's because it involves, it involves money, it 62 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,080 involves currency. And most of the time if we're 63 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,360 using cash or right now, you know, credit card, it's just a 64 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,400 simple transaction. I need something, I want 65 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,560 something, food, gas, groceries, clothing, Christmas presents. 66 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,200 All I have to do is present some currency and then I get 67 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:39,440 something in return, right? So most everything we do with 68 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,560 our money is transactional. So then it would make sense that 69 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,160 when we get to giving it also feels transactional. 70 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,040 And I and I think that's the first major roadblock and hang 71 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,560 up in thinking about our money and our finances as a 72 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,760 discipleship issue is to get out of the transactional mindset and 73 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,400 think of it through a transformational lens. 74 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:06,240 And so if you think about just reframing the question, so how 75 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,720 does my money shape my relationship with God? 76 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,320 Is it helping or is it hurting? Right. 77 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,920 Like that really is the question that then every answer can can 78 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:21,600 flow down, you know, answers to how we live, how we save and how 79 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,160 we give. And I would prefer putting it in 80 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,920 the other in reverse order, how we give, how we save and how we 81 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,480 live. But everything comes kind of 82 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,760 flows down, if you will, from that question of how is 83 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,440 basically money and finances shaping my faith, my 84 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:39,760 relationship with God. Yeah. 85 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,920 And so I think generosity is a great word to just camp out on 86 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,720 and just think about how that plays a role in my spiritual 87 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,320 formation. So not transactional, but 88 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:53,600 transformational. Right. 89 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,520 And then it's not, it's not just money. 90 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,480 You know, money is a big piece of it and Jesus does talk about 91 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,640 it a lot. So that's part of it. 92 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,160 But that it's time and it's resources. 93 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,800 Like we want to be generous people and that touches more 94 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,960 areas of our life. Then I'm just going to ship out 95 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,760 a chunk of my paycheck each month and then I'm good and I 96 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:13,680 did my piece. Yeah. 97 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,920 If we thought about generosity as a virtue or as a character 98 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:22,880 quality versus just a transaction, then it does seep 99 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,840 into every single area of your life. 100 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:28,720 So a generous person is going to be more generous with their 101 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,560 time, their words, their relationship. 102 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,360 And so one way to think about it is, is generosity is certainly 103 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,560 more than just money, but it can't be less than, right? 104 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,200 It's got to include that just because of the challenging 105 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,800 nature of money. And we can look at just Jesus's 106 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,080 words himself. And we'll do that here in just a 107 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:49,480 second. But. 108 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,960 But Jesus really, really, really doubled down on on money. 109 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:54,040 So we've got to pay attention to that. 110 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,120 Yeah. So I think for I was having a 111 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,480 lunch with one of our leaders this week and he brought up this 112 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:08,680 idea because I always ask people where their ideas of money were 113 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:09,880 formed. Yeah. 114 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,160 So I asked the leader on Monday. I was teaching the class last 115 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:19,440 night of young professionals. And so the question, you know, 116 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,600 these are all people who were serious about following Jesus. 117 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:23,680 Where did you get your ideas about money? 118 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:28,400 And there is almost always some type of family origin story. 119 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:34,320 There may be a church story there where it was emphasized 120 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,960 and maybe the parents, you know, said, hey, we got to give back 121 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:39,360 to the church. And maybe there was a 122 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:45,040 percentage, 10% that was thrown in for for some like these 123 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,440 students last night, it was when they got into some money 124 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,440 difficulty, whether it was through some difficult 125 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,200 decisions, some things that were thrust upon them or like college 126 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,520 debt. So then they had to get serious 127 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,600 about how to handle their money. But almost to a person of the 128 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,280 folks in the room, they did not say the scriptures was the 129 00:07:05,280 --> 00:07:09,480 primary formative tool in the way they thought about money. 130 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,640 And I just think that's really interesting. 131 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:18,040 And so part of the the goal and what I have the pleasure of 132 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,320 doing for our church and what we're going to do here is really 133 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:25,640 to kind of root our thoughts about money in the scriptures, 134 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:30,160 of which they're they're a lot of, and let that be the primary 135 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:34,600 driver and then see how well our personal experience and our 136 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,640 cultural experience holds up against the Scriptures. 137 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,720 So I think that any fair minded person would want to do that if 138 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,320 they're really want to follow Jesus and take him seriously and 139 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:45,920 believe that the Bible is God's word. 140 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:52,720 So to me, a big part of how we can describe our relationship 141 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:57,640 with money because money is in some ways money is is is a is a 142 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,880 neutral thing, right. It's just paper. 143 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:02,040 It's just coins. It's plastic for crying out 144 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:02,920 loud. Right now. 145 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:07,520 It's just a few keystrokes on our cell phone, right to move 146 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,360 money around. Yeah, but it's powerful. 147 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:16,240 The the the power is where we have to take into account the 148 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,640 question I I asked about our relationship with God. 149 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,240 Are we using it for good or are we using it for or is it being 150 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,520 used for I'll against us. Maybe be the way better way to 151 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:23,840 say it. Sure. 152 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,800 So some of the roots of how we think about money. 153 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,120 I I think for me, it's comforting just to go all the 154 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,799 way back to the origin story, not in our family of origin, but 155 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:40,480 in Adam and Eve and in the origin of civilization in the 156 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:45,200 beginning of mankind, because Adam and Eve were presented with 157 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:50,520 a beautiful living experience. You know, there's a garden and 158 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,320 there's a river and there's raw materials and there's animals 159 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:55,680 and there's like everything that they need. 160 00:08:56,560 --> 00:09:01,520 And God gave all of that to them for their good pleasure, except 161 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,640 you told them there's one thing you can't do. 162 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:05,560 You got to stay away from that tree. 163 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:10,120 You can't eat from it. And then so they, God gave them 164 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,480 abundance, right? But then there's a second, 165 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,920 there's a second voice that enters in who's the opposite of 166 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,960 the voice of God. And he basically contradicts 167 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,560 what God says. And he said, hey, God, he may 168 00:09:23,560 --> 00:09:25,760 have given you all this, but he's actually not good. 169 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,480 He's holding out on you. He doesn't want you to have 170 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,280 everything. You deserve it all. 171 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:31,560 And he doesn't want you to have it. 172 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,720 And so he's holding out on you. And what what the serpent 173 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,480 introduced, but the enemy of God introduced was a scarcity 174 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:39,560 mentality. Yeah. 175 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:44,480 So in a land of abundance, they now are introduced to a scarcity 176 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,160 mentality that they fall for, and they question the goodness 177 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,680 of God. Yeah, and it's the same paradigm 178 00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:52,280 that, I mean, is really repeated throughout Scripture, like 179 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,560 ongoing too. So I'm doing remember your joy 180 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:59,360 with a group of ladies and you know, we talked about God 181 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,120 provides the manna and the Israelites come out of Egypt and 182 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:04,880 they're like, you brought us out here to die. 183 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,560 Like there's no food. And that's a real need. 184 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,800 But then God provides the mana and they still get to a point 185 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:12,800 and they're like, there's no food. 186 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:14,800 But we also hate this mana that you gave us. 187 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,760 So it's like, OK, there's there's not really scarcity. 188 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,600 We're just perceiving that it is and we're just complaining. 189 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:26,320 But then you have in Psalm 78, it says God rained down mana for 190 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,840 them to eat. And so there's actually 191 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,320 abundance all the time. And that's what we're, but 192 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,440 that's what we're thinking through is, you know, what we 193 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,880 want and what we perceive the scarcity to be, and sometimes 194 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,960 what the scarcity actually is versus what God is actually 195 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:41,720 giving us. Yeah. 196 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,320 And what's interesting is that the the physical means, you 197 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,080 know, of which they are judging abundance or scarcity is really 198 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:49,640 tied back to the provider. Yes. 199 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,840 So, so when we have a scarcity mindset, it's less about what we 200 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,760 have or don't have. It's really a question about 201 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,600 God. And we might not like that, but 202 00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:02,440 but really that's what we're saying is, God, are you good? 203 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,120 And can you really provide for me? 204 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,560 Have you really provided for me? What am I entitled to? 205 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,680 And I think if we're honest with ourselves, those questions, they 206 00:11:11,680 --> 00:11:14,680 just, they roll through our minds and they influence us. 207 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:18,280 And is God's goodness the same as what I think goodness is? 208 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,000 Because a lot of times I think I can get on board with like, 209 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,440 yeah, God is good. God probably does have my best 210 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,320 in mind, but that's actually just not what I want right now. 211 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,600 Like God has given me manna, but I just don't like it. 212 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,200 I would like a steak please. No, that's right. 213 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,920 And so you take you take this abundance and scarcity mindset 214 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:41,240 that I think we all struggle with, and then you go to the 215 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,320 scriptures and you read like the words of Jesus. 216 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,160 And I'll steal this from a recent sermon I was listening to 217 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,600 from John Mark Comer, and he was talking about growing up in 218 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,640 church. And I grew up in church with a 219 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,120 reverence for God's word. And so I knew I knew it was 220 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,360 right. Like I knew it was it was 221 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,920 morally good and right. Well, I knew it was morally 222 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,520 right, but I wondered if it was personally good for me, Like 223 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,800 would it lead to happiness? Because it seemed like God was 224 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,640 trying to take something away from me and keep me from 225 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,360 something that might be more, might lead to more happiness. 226 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,880 And so I knew he was right. But was he good? 227 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,400 And we can kind of get into this narrative as believers is like 228 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,200 following Jesus like it will include suffering like that is 229 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,240 true. Jesus told us that himself, but 230 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,800 then we equate that to be like, there's no goodness to be had 231 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,280 and we're just here to suffer until we die and then everything 232 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,440 is going to get great so we can get stuck there. 233 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,640 When I think what you're saying now is like, that's not true, 234 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,120 there's more for us. Well, I mean, I remember when I 235 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,640 heard that quote, it put into words what I was thinking and I 236 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,600 went back to the idea of being a teenager, right? 237 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,800 So growing up in church, a new right from wrong. 238 00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:06,720 And so then you have teenagers doing teenage things, right? 239 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:10,360 So if they're drinking, if they're partying, if it's 240 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,240 there's immorality involved, then you just think, oh, well, 241 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:16,880 God's against all the fun, right? 242 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:22,520 Like God wants me to be over here and, and stay away from 243 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,720 those things. And, and he just doesn't, he 244 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,040 just doesn't want me to have any fun. 245 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,840 And we have a very adolescent immature way of what we're 246 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:31,920 thinking of how we're thinking about goodness, right? 247 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,360 But like nobody 20 years later, 30 years later says, gosh, I 248 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,000 wish I could go back and do all those stupid things that I was 249 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,680 doing in high school. Those were so good. 250 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,360 Like nobody says that, right? And so I think like when we talk 251 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,640 about the idea of generosity, so Jesus says a lot of lot of crazy 252 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,880 things, right? So I'll say one, and then we'll 253 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:55,320 go back and look at some of the other things. 254 00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:58,720 But like he says, it's, it's more blessed to give than to 255 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,880 receive. And Paul repeats this in Acts 256 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:05,040 20. So, so I'm forced to say, do I 257 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,560 really believe that? Do I really believe that it's 258 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:11,240 better for me to give than to receive? 259 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,760 So I mean, that sounds right. But like, is that good? 260 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,240 Like, does it lead to like, happiness, like human 261 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,960 flourishing? And so that's really kind of a 262 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,560 test of a test of faith. And what I've found, you know, 263 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,000 we have a very generous church and I have a lot of these 264 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:32,720 conversations and, and nobody who is generous is looking back 265 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,720 just like the 40 year old looking back at the teenage 266 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,800 years going, gosh, I wish I could go back to being greedy. 267 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:41,680 I wish I could go back to hoarding my resources. 268 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,320 I I wish I wasn't so generous. Like no one says that there's no 269 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,000 such thing as generosity, regret. 270 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,640 Because if you will take God at his word, it actually proves 271 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,080 that. Yeah, 100 percent, 100%. 272 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,680 It leads to happiness. And then, you know, you can, you 273 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,640 can look, there's all these studies have been done that 274 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,000 people who are generous people, they have just a better quality 275 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:10,240 of life, like anxiety lower, right, don't struggle as much 276 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,720 with despair. They, they laugh, they laugh 277 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,360 more, they live longer, they have better quality of 278 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,680 relationships. And, and so just just on the 279 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,280 sociological side, you might say, oh, there's something, 280 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:28,520 there's something to this. And so, yeah, taking Jesus at 281 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:35,480 his word, taking Paul at his word and really trusting that 282 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,880 God is a God of abundance who has called me to be generous. 283 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,320 And so I just kind of thought we might could look at a couple 284 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,800 passages. Yeah, and one thing I'll say too 285 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:48,040 is I think the teenage example is a good one 'cause, you know, 286 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,560 you've raised teenagers. I'm trying to disciple some 287 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:55,200 teenagers and there is something about like they cannot think 288 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,840 further than like 5 minutes from now, you know, and I'll say in 289 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,880 my late 20s, I can't really think further than tomorrow. 290 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,480 So you know, that's. You're you're empathetic with 291 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:05,960 that. Right, I am, you know, some of 292 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,440 it's a human condition, but I do think as you get older and 293 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,080 wiser, like you just think about time differently. 294 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,480 But there is something to like we have to believe because in 295 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,320 the moment, like there is loss, like it's we have to die to 296 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,240 ourselves. First there's a hurt and then 297 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,280 there's a long term benefit. And sometimes by long term, we 298 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,680 mean like a month from now. And then sometimes it truly is 299 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,880 on down the road. But it's hard for us in the 300 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,280 moment to say, OK, this is going to be really worth it when I'm 301 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,000 40, you know, because I'm like, right now, I would like to be 302 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,120 worth it this second or tomorrow you. 303 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,520 Know, or at least I want I want a guarantee. 304 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,080 Yes, right. And that's the opposite of 305 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:48,160 having faith. Right. 306 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:53,360 But I know if I go to Target and I buy myself Starbucks and I get 307 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:57,280 some new clothes and whatever else, like I know I'm walking 308 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,600 out of Target happy. Yes, there's a guarantee because 309 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,760 again, it goes back to the power, the power of money. 310 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,000 That's right. And so thinking about Jesus 311 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,240 Sermon on the Mount, Matthew chapter 5 and 6, one of Jesus's 312 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,040 longer teachings that we have recorded. 313 00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:16,920 And I want to use that because that is familiar to a number of 314 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,680 this. We, we know the Beatitudes. 315 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,560 And if you just read the beatitudes, I mean, again, Jesus 316 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,760 says some some upside down things when he says, you know, 317 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,800 blessed are those who were poor because they'll realize their 318 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,120 need for him. Blessed are those who mourn 319 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:32,920 because they'll be comforted. Blessed are those who are 320 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,520 persecuted for doing right for the Kingdom of heaven is there. 321 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,680 So there's all this upside down teaching that that Jesus gives. 322 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:45,560 And then right after what we call the Beatitudes in verses 13 323 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,960 through 16, he uses this idea of salt and light. 324 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,800 And so we know that salt has this ability to preserve to to 325 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,520 keep something in the healthy state, right. 326 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,280 And then light, let me just read what he says about light. 327 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,280 You're the light of the world, like a city on a hilltop that 328 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,600 cannot be hidden. No one lights a lamp and puts it 329 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,080 under a basket. Yes, we got a little children's 330 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,080 song in our head, you know. No, I'm going to let it shine. 331 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,960 So instead, you put that lamp on a stand where it gives light to 332 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,480 everyone in the house. So in the same way, let your 333 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,240 good deeds shine out for all to see so that everyone would 334 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:30,040 praise your heavenly Father. So this idea that light it 335 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,920 points it's it's so it illuminates, it points in a 336 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,920 certain direction, it draws others to it. 337 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,440 Moss to a flame. Yeah, it serves as like a 338 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:44,000 beacon, right? So the idea that if Christians 339 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,720 live according to God's word and according to the power that he's 340 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,160 given us to the Holy Spirit to live according to his word, then 341 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,120 we're we're to preserve and we're to be this type of light, 342 00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:57,600 this kind of beacon of hope. All right, So then he goes on 343 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:02,920 and he has a number of different subject that he's touching on, 344 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,680 and money comes up a couple different times. 345 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:11,440 But then in chapter 6, two pretty famous passages around 346 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,560 money. One is the treasure in heart, 347 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,000 where your treasure is the desires of your heart will be. 348 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,400 And then no one can serve 2 masters, for you will hate 1 and 349 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,800 love the other, be devoted 1 and despise the other. 350 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,400 You can't serve both God and money. 351 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:31,000 So in between these two passages around money, he goes back to 352 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,200 the theme of light. I think it's super interesting. 353 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,400 So he leads with this idea of salt and light. 354 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,520 And then in this longer discourse about money, 355 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,040 possessions, not worrying, God taking care of you, all of that 356 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,240 he drops in these verses. So let me read them to you. 357 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:53,200 Your eye is a lamp that provides light for your whole body. 358 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,600 When your eye is good, your whole body is filled with light. 359 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,840 But when your eye is bad. Your whole body is filled with 360 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,280 darkness. And then listen to this. 361 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:10,600 If the light you think you have is actually darkness, how deep 362 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,240 the darkness is. So in other words, if we go 363 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:21,760 around calling something good that's actually bad, then how 364 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:30,480 dangerous is it for us? How deep has that lie set in how 365 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:35,040 deep that darkness really resonates within our soul and 366 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,640 keeps us from from being the person the people God has called 367 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:40,920 us to be, which is people of light. 368 00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:42,920 Yeah. And so I don't, I don't think 369 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:47,880 that there's any coincidence that in this conversation around 370 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,080 wealth and the power of wealth and God is provider and not 371 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,400 being able to serve 2 masters and treasure and heart, you have 372 00:20:54,400 --> 00:21:00,480 this idea that if we live with our possessions, according to 373 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,320 God's word, we are going to be a lamp, we are going to be a 374 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,400 light. But if we do not, how deep the 375 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,440 darkness can really be. And that's my biggest concern 376 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,600 about just thinking about money through a transactional lens, 377 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,480 even giving a percentage away, like, OK, I give a percentage 378 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,920 away. So then God's good with me, He's 379 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,240 happy. So then I can do whatever I want 380 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,800 to with everything else I have. Like, that's not a healthy view, 381 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,880 right? And having our views of money 382 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,640 formed by any other source than the Scriptures, particularly 383 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,880 when the power of money is so strong. 384 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,520 Yeah. And the cultural pressures are 385 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:48,400 so strong, it is really easy to say something is good, but it's 386 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:49,520 actually bad. Yeah. 387 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,360 So just going back to our kind of silly little example that you 388 00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:59,960 can spend all this money on yourself and other people, OK, 389 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:02,440 so that's not wrong. But you can kind of indulge, 390 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:07,440 right, on Black Friday sales and Cyber Monday sales and local 391 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,080 Saturday sales and all this. And then let's not forget about 392 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,000 giving away a little bit and say, oh, that's so good. 393 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,360 Look what I did. I mean, that's why I didn't like 394 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:18,200 it, right? That's why I think it's 395 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,040 gimmicky, because I'm afraid that what we're doing is we're 396 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:23,680 saying something is actually good. 397 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,000 That's really darkness. Yeah, and it's a it's a great 398 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,560 picture. You know, as we often talk in 399 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,960 terms of like, OK, when I get to the end of my life and I am 400 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,840 standing before Jesus like that really is probably should be 401 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:43,560 like my greatest fear is that he was like, hey, you're in 402 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,160 darkness the whole time and you just missed it, You know, and 403 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,960 like the things that the world was holding out to you, whatever 404 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,560 those are, like it's different for all of us. 405 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,200 But you thought that was the light and you thought that you 406 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,040 were in the light and then you didn't have it. 407 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,000 But also, how much more powerful and influential are we as 408 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,240 individuals, but also as a collective, as the church? 409 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,040 And when we think about all of our people connected to our 410 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,640 church that are like going out into the upstate, if all of 411 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,920 those are individual lights, right? 412 00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:18,960 Well, that's really something to aspire to. 413 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:20,960 You know, that like that captures my heart. 414 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,240 I want to get on board with that. 415 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,640 Yeah. And to your first point, just 416 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,960 about rendering a judgement, I think if our answer to God is 417 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:32,440 comparing ourselves to other people, like that's an example 418 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,080 of how deep the darkness is. Yeah. 419 00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:42,360 And he's like, hey, you compare your life to Jesus because why? 420 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:48,320 Because I sent him to redeem you, and then I gave you the 421 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,040 power through the Holy Spirit. I blessed you with every 422 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,720 spiritual blessing. Ephesians one. 423 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,960 By his divine nature, we've been given everything we need to live 424 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,000 a godly life. Second, Peter 1, I am, I am 425 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,560 calling you to transform your life into the image of Jesus. 426 00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:06,320 Romans 829 He's your Big Brother. 427 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,400 He's the first born and we're supposed to look up to him and 428 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,240 emulate him. And he's given us the power to 429 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,120 grow and mature and develop. And the idea that we can do all 430 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:19,080 of that without God in being involved in our finances, except 431 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,840 for like a small part where we're willing to give away. 432 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,240 And in the average Christian, I mean, gives away like 3% of 433 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,960 their income, right, right. So we're, we're not, we're not 434 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,040 talking about 7%, We're not talking about 10%. 435 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,400 We're not talking about 15%. We're not talking about 20%. 436 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,080 We're not talking percentages at all. 437 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:39,320 We're talking about an attitude that is geared around generosity 438 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,480 that is part of the spiritual formation plan that God has put 439 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,560 in front of all of us. And so like, like, I like to use 440 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,200 this example. If you say, OK, God is fill in 441 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,400 the blank, a lot of us say, well, OK, God is love. 442 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,760 Yes, God is love. We identify with God as love. 443 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,760 And if we are going to emulate God, then we need to love him 444 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,560 and we need to love others, right? 445 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,840 Basically, Jesus summarized the whole law in those two things. 446 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,160 Love God, heart, soul and mind, love neighbors as yourself. 447 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,280 And if I said, OK, Whitney, God is love. 448 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:17,040 And so you loving as well as you can with God's help is going to 449 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:22,280 grow you and mature you to a fuller version of a disciple 450 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,200 follower of Jesus. And you're like, you know what, 451 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,440 I think I'm out on love. Like I just got to work on 452 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,360 myself. I got a career, I got some 453 00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:34,480 things going on. I'm real busy right now. 454 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,720 And so I hear you. I do think that's important, but 455 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,560 I'm just going to call a time out on love and maybe three to 456 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,240 five years from now, just check back with me. 457 00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:46,560 Like that would not be a good spiritual formation strategy, 458 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:47,040 right? Right. 459 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,880 All right. So then if I say, hey wit, you 460 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:56,640 realize God is the most generous being that has ever existed. 461 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,560 And you know what he did? He created you in his image to 462 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:07,720 bear the marks of every bit of him, including generosity, all 463 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,200 the communicable attributes that get passed down to you. 464 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,640 Generosity is one of those. That's what he created you for. 465 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,800 So in order for you to grow, to become more fully like Jesus, to 466 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,480 grow in holiness to godliness, you're going to have to be 467 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,080 generous. And you're like, you know what, 468 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,480 I'm just going to call Tom out on that because I'm not really 469 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,600 at the place in my career where I want to be. 470 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,600 I've got all this student debt. Things are just, I'm not, I'm 471 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:38,360 just not doing well financially, which means I'm not where I want 472 00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:41,520 to be. And so one day, I mean, I really 473 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,000 do want to be generous because we all do, because that's how 474 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,200 God created us. But yet we can come up with lots 475 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,920 of reasons why. And I would just encourage you, 476 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,120 if you're still listening to me, to think of it in terms of a 477 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,760 character quality or a virtue that God is desperate to grow in 478 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,040 you. And it really does not have to 479 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,760 do with the dollar amount or percentage. 480 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:09,360 It is a character quality that that God instilled in you that 481 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,400 the fall may have may have marred, but it did not erase. 482 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,960 And I'll give you a great example of that. 483 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:22,000 OK, We just had one of the hardest natural disasters to 484 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,080 ever hit our area, right? So for a week, things were 485 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,520 really upside down, right? So work wasn't as normal, school 486 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,720 wasn't as normal, church wasn't as normal. 487 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,680 And a lot of people didn't have power, couldn't couldn't travel 488 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,080 around like you would normally do. 489 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,320 So everything kind of comes to a halt. 490 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,160 But not just that, but then people are in need. 491 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,400 People are in need. People are without, people have 492 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,920 trees on their cars, on their houses. 493 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,560 It's just, it's just kind of a mess. 494 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:54,400 So what did everybody do? They looked for people who were 495 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:59,520 in need and they were filled with generous acts of love and 496 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:06,920 kindness and some financial. But generosity flowed so much 497 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,400 during that week. Yeah. 498 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,280 And you know what I saw? I saw people who were genuinely 499 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:13,280 happy. Yeah. 500 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,320 Despite their circumstances, Right. 501 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,000 You know, despite things not going well for them personally 502 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,880 when they didn't have power. And, you know, their their week 503 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,960 was interrupted and. And maybe they had a tree on 504 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,360 their house. Yeah, but the ability to get out 505 00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:34,360 and to love and serve and show generosity to others, it was 506 00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:38,800 like the best of mankind, right? Yeah, it was, it was, it was 507 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,240 Acts 20. It is more blessed to give than 508 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,880 receive. And I just, I just think back to 509 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,360 that like, God knows what he's talking about. 510 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,000 Yeah, yeah. And to your point about like, 511 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,720 we're really made for this. This is what God has set us up 512 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,480 to be. And so we step into that and 513 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,240 we're going to have a completely different experience of 514 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,360 humanity. I mean, right after the 515 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,360 hurricane, I mean, I spent those days watching some neighborhood 516 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,920 kids so their parents could clean up some trees and all that 517 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,240 good stuff, and then just helping some neighbors chop up 518 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,480 trees and carry them to a burning pit. 519 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:18,720 And I have, I call these things like barn raising efforts, you 520 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,720 know, like how people used to do that. 521 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,440 And it was this like foundation of community. 522 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,440 You have people coming together and they are offering, people 523 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,880 are bringing food, people are bringing their tools. 524 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,120 And everybody's like spending the day like just building a 525 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,000 barn for somebody else, somebody else in the community. 526 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,360 And the kids are there, kids are running around. 527 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:42,160 But like, I feel like we've missed some of that and we lose 528 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,160 like this great moment because whenever I get to step into 529 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,080 moments like that, it's so evident to me. 530 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,160 I'm like, this is exactly what I was made to do. 531 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,080 And we all go home and we're like, we kind of wish that it 532 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:55,880 wasn't over and we could keep doing it. 533 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,480 I couldn't have said it better myself. 534 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:03,280 And one of the things that was obvious about that time is we 535 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,560 couldn't be distracted. Our phones weren't working, our 536 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:07,760 Internet wasn't. Working. 537 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,440 And so we were, we were back to how we were created, which which 538 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,440 was our relational creatures who were made to look out for one 539 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,520 another, to serve one another, to care for one another, all 540 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,400 acts of generosity. And so I just, yeah, I mean, as 541 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,240 we get, you know, closer to the end of the year and we reflect 542 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,960 on that time, you know, what would it mean to really tap into 543 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,800 that? Like I said, the beginning and 544 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,240 not be a a giving or a generosity Tuesday, but really a 545 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,640 generosity everyday. But that only comes from this 546 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,640 type of transformation of recognizing that God is an 547 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,040 abundant God. I do not live in scarcity. 548 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,840 No, no matter. I mean, if you are listening to 549 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,920 this podcast right now, then you are one of the wealthiest people 550 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,280 in the world by the world standards, just because you have 551 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,040 a device that allows you to listen to this, right? 552 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,240 And I know you may not feel that way because again, our eyes are 553 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,000 looking around at other people in our orbit, in our 554 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,800 neighborhood, in our county that have way more than we do. 555 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,400 But if we could look around to the rest of the world, we would 556 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,400 just realize how wealthy we are. It's all relative. 557 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,400 Yeah. And so that's another sermon for 558 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,280 another day. But let me just say on this 559 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,880 topic and we'll kind of kind of wrap up here, but when you just 560 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:35,040 think about motivation for giving, you know, often we talk 561 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,840 about the mission and rightly so. 562 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,840 Like we are able to use our resources collectively, like you 563 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,600 talked about all these little beacons of light collectively 564 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:46,880 doing more than any of us could do on our own. 565 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,160 Right, like generosity is an individual thing and a 566 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:50,480 collective thing that's. Exactly. 567 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:50,960 Right. Yeah. 568 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,080 And so we get to the mission, we further the mission, we help see 569 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,640 Kingdom results both here around the state and around the world. 570 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,280 And that is awesome. That should be motivating for 571 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,080 us. But to me, like we're that's 572 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,800 just scratching the surface. Yeah, like that's just 573 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,080 scratching the surface. So that's like number one reason 574 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,960 to be generous #2 reason to be generous is the, the call in 575 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,080 command of God, like to just to be obedient to Scripture, to 576 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:24,760 form a, a, a discipline around acknowledging and worshipping 577 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,080 God and responding to him as the great giver, the giver of all 578 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,600 good gifts. I don't have anything that he 579 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,680 hasn't given to me. And so I just acknowledge that 580 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,720 when I'm being generous like that, that's good. 581 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:39,240 And, and I don't necessarily I, I don't need to wait until I 582 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,640 feel all of that, sure. To make that step. 583 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,520 Yeah. Of, of giving as a way to 584 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,120 acknowledge his goodness in my life. 585 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:48,640 OK. So I think that's too, I think 586 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,640 discipline is really important. I think mission is number one. 587 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,000 I think discipline is number 2. But this idea of spiritual 588 00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:00,080 formation and transformation, like often, you know, I'll hear 589 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,160 other pastors say this, you know, they'll say, and I mean, 590 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,360 I've said it too, I'm including myself. 591 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,040 They'll say, I don't want something from you, I want 592 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,280 something for you. And which is a great little 593 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,600 statement, but then you say, OK, well, tell me more. 594 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,400 And there's not always a lot of more behind that, right? 595 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,440 And what I would say is no, if you just go read the Scripture, 596 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,880 2300 verses in the Bible around money, a fourth of all Jesus's 597 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:35,120 teachings involved money. Like it's pretty clear that this 598 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,960 thing that God has given us, that we think about, we touch 599 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,520 about we touch, we dream about every single day that God put it 600 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,600 in our life to draw us closer to him. 601 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:49,360 And not just use for mission and not just use as an act of 602 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,720 obedience, giving it back to him, but as transformation. 603 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,600 And, and it goes back to this idea of the generous nature of 604 00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,800 God. And so you can go to passages 605 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:05,000 like Second Corinthians 8:00 and 9:00, which basically touch on 606 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:10,120 all three of these motivations. And you know, like, just look at 607 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:14,840 like a verse, like verse 9, you know, the generous grace of our 608 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,880 Lord Jesus Christ, though he was rich, yet for your sake, he 609 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,199 became poor so that his poverty, he can make you rich. 610 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,520 So he's basically motivating the Corinthians church by using 611 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,440 Jesus as an example of generosity. 612 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:33,040 You know, John 316 for God so loved the world that he gave. 613 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,040 Yeah. So even like God the Father 614 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:42,440 gives, Jesus gives, the Holy Spirit gives just the Trinity is 615 00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:46,480 is all about grace, generosity, gift. 616 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,000 Yeah. And so when you read a passage 617 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,560 like Second Corinthians 8, there's missional, there's 618 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,080 response to obedience to God through worship, and then there 619 00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:01,080 is this transformative element of what God is doing when we use 620 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,960 the resources that he's given us and and give those away. 621 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,120 And it kind of works two different ways. 622 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:13,160 One, it helps combat sin, which is where the cancer of 2 623 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:18,640 masters, because money can lead to greed, envy, coveting, 624 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,760 discontent. And those are real. 625 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,120 Those are real struggles. Yeah. 626 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:24,920 Those are real sins of the flesh. 627 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,880 Those are those are real things that will compete for our 628 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:32,200 spiritual power. And the only antidote I know to 629 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,880 that is to be open handed and to be generous. 630 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,040 Yeah. And and that's what that's what 631 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:39,240 God says. I didn't come up with that. 632 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:40,760 That's what he tells us. That's right. 633 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,680 So we have like the negative side, the, the challenging side, 634 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:52,280 which generosity helps us avoid, and then the positive side where 635 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:57,360 generosity helps us grow and become more like God, more holy, 636 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,640 more generous, more compassionate, more just. 637 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:07,240 And, and so you just see this big picture idea of God using 638 00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:12,400 this thing, which is in every one of our lives to nurture our 639 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,320 relationship with him and to help us mature and become more 640 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,680 like him. So when someone says what do you 641 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,880 mean? You want something for me, not 642 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,240 from me. That's what I say. 643 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,120 Yeah, and it's exactly to what you started this podcast off 644 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,800 with talking about, like, do I really believe that this is good 645 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,720 for me? Is this God's best for me? 646 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,760 And it's in that same at the beginning of 2nd Corinthians 8, 647 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,080 Paul starts out and he says, now I want you to know, dear 648 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,400 brothers and sisters, what God and his kindness has done 649 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,080 through the churches in Macedonia. 650 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,040 They are being tested by many troubles, and they are very poor 651 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,560 like they're not. They don't have nearly as much 652 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,280 as we do. But they are also filled with 653 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,320 abundant joy, which has overflowed in rich generosity. 654 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,880 For I can attest that they gave not only what they could afford, 655 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,840 but far more. And they did it of their own 656 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,360 free will. And they begged us again and 657 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,640 again for the privilege of sharing in the gift for the 658 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,400 believers in Jerusalem. Like. 659 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,840 I want abundant joy which overflowed in rich generosity 660 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,560 and the privilege of being a part of what God is doing. 661 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,240 God knows what's good because he created us. 662 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:25,120 And so like, to me, I feel like he's just giving us a road map 663 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,360 to this idea of growth, maturity, joy, happiness, human 664 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,760 flourishing. And then he's given us this 665 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,800 resource all around us. And he's like, Hey, can you put 666 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,760 two and two together and, and act and just, I mean, my, I, I 667 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,280 have hundreds of passages that will help you. 668 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:49,400 But I mean, this is where I think the spiritual battle of 669 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,960 the age is raging. The war is raging. 670 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:59,440 And so if, if God knows that and God designed that, guess who 671 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:04,080 also knows that the enemy knows that that same sucker that 672 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,320 showed up in the garden and said, hey, you know what? 673 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:12,840 He's, he's really not for you. He's really not for you today. 674 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,040 He's saying everything you have really is for you. 675 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,640 It really is for you. You can trust, you can trust 676 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,160 yourself. You need all these things and 677 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:27,200 more to truly be happy. And, and so like the more things 678 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,280 change, the more things stay the same. 679 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:36,120 And so I do feel like there is spiritual transformation at 680 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,320 stake. And so this isn't just funding a 681 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,520 mission. This isn't just a church budget, 682 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:48,280 a new ministry option idea, a great nonprofit. 683 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,560 It's that that's, that's part of the equation, but it's, it's 684 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,200 actually small part of the equation. 685 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,240 The idea of developing and cultivating a relationship with 686 00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:02,840 God, and God transforming us and the enemy being defeated all at 687 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,160 the same time, like it's pretty cosmic. 688 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,200 It is, yeah. It's way bigger than what we 689 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:08,360 imagine. Yeah. 690 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:14,200 And so when we just say, yeah, I mean, I, I gave 7%, ten percent, 691 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,400 12%. I wrote that check and I put it 692 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,480 over there in the corner. And then I just focused on 693 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,640 everything that I had left and what I wanted to do with it. 694 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,240 Like we're, we're missing, we're missing something because God 695 00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:30,920 wants you to just like the joy that you should have in 696 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:32,560 generosity that you just described. 697 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,920 God wants you to enjoy. He wants you to enjoy your home. 698 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,960 He wants to enjoy your food. He wants to enjoy your clothing. 699 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:46,760 He wants to you to enjoy your life because he gave you all 700 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:51,640 those things He wants When you put money in the bank, when you 701 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,560 put it in responsibly and save for the future, He wants you to 702 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,200 have joy in that, not anxiety. That is not enough. 703 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,160 Yeah. And and So what I feel like is 704 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,840 we have a joy issue around all aspects of money. 705 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,600 Like we don't really enjoy the way we're spending it because 706 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,000 we're discontent, right? And we want. 707 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,360 What other people have We go have a meal at a restaurant and 708 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,440 we worry that we didn't order the right thing or that we 709 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:18,760 didn't even go to the right restaurant. 710 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,040 Why? Because we have so many choices, 711 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,280 we get paralyzed and we don't enjoy what we have. 712 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:24,320 That's right, yeah. Right. 713 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,120 We save and we live in a doomsday culture where there's 714 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,040 all this fear around the future because fear sells. 715 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,120 Fear generates revenue for other people. 716 00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:39,240 So that's about money. And so then we're not really 717 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,680 joyful and thankful that we're able to put money away. 718 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,000 Yeah, and it's it's too easy to not make that connection because 719 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,000 as you're listening to this, we just had Thanksgiving. 720 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,640 That's right. And that is a key piece to this. 721 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,480 Like this is this particular episode is not about gratitude, 722 00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:59,640 but it is critical because if we understand how abundant God has 723 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,480 actually been to us, like we don't question God's goodness to 724 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:04,920 us. If we've been paying attention 725 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,720 the whole time. And if we took Thanksgiving 726 00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:10,800 seriously and really thought about gratitude and saw what the 727 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,440 Lord has provided to us, again, far more above than what we 728 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,600 deserved or asked for. And we recognize the abundance, 729 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,760 we can see the manna and we were like, the manna is enough. 730 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,760 I mean, that's another part of that passage is it's like 731 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,080 everybody took away what was enough, People who took too much 732 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,840 got enough. People who didn't have enough, 733 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,680 they had enough. And so we can just take that for 734 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,920 what it is and not be like, I just wish it was steak, you 735 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,400 know, then that is actually that is going to drive our 736 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,920 generosity. So we just, I mean, we have to 737 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:46,680 encourage all of us to don't miss that connection between 738 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,320 Thanksgiving and Giving Tuesday, like make that natural. 739 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,480 Progression. There's a straight line between 740 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:57,240 God as the giver between the gratefulness that we should 741 00:41:57,240 --> 00:42:01,240 receive as the that we should offer as the receiver and then 742 00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:04,360 the open handedness that we should be in willing to offer 743 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,640 generous gifts to other people. It's just it's all it's all 744 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,200 connected. It's all connected. 745 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,680 And so so yeah, I just think that they're they're big things 746 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,880 at stake. I think we should enjoy what God 747 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,360 has given us. I think we should save 748 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,520 appropriately, but we should do it all with this really heart 749 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,200 towards generosity. And if you start there, you 750 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:32,400 know, if you invert the paradigm and you make giving a priority, 751 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:33,920 that comes from a generous heart. 752 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,840 And so sometimes you're going to have to give before you 753 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:38,360 cultivate the generous heart, right? 754 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:43,520 But I would say take the step and pray, talk to God, talk to 755 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,440 other people and cultivate your mind with scripture and just let 756 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,600 God do the transformation. If what we're telling you is 757 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,840 true, then God is way more invested in this than you think 758 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,520 he is. And he will help you if you will 759 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,720 just ask. And and so the the 760 00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:03,120 transformative power of generosity is really what I just 761 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,560 wanted to encourage and inspire people to today. 762 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,320 Yeah. No, I think that's great. 763 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,000 Thank you, Scott, for just your time and your thoughts around 764 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,160 all of that. And just as we close, I would 765 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,680 say like include community in this. 766 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:16,920 You know, if you're thinking about things and you have 767 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:22,360 questions, whether it's discipleship leaders or pastors 768 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:27,120 at your campus or however we can help you, don't try to do all of 769 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,200 this thinking by yourself because you'll talk yourself out 770 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:34,080 of it, you know, And so get some accountability in there and 771 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:35,640 hopefully that will be helpful for you. 772 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,880 But we're praying for all of you as you go into the holiday 773 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,120 season and appreciate you all listening to this. 774 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:42,800 So thanks. Yeah, Thanks, Witt.