1 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:09,000 What we're doing at a SIM camp is, you know, if we could narrow 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,240 it down, we're giving them skills, we're trying to give 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:15,000 them skills emotionally, how to express them in a healthy way, 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:17,920 how to go to the ward with them, how to talk to the parents about 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,920 them. But if if we only accomplished 2 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,760 things we consider a success, and that's one that they're not 7 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,240 alone and that they have a God who cares. 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,120 And if they leave with those two things, we, we have done our 9 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,720 job. Well, welcome back to the Grace 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,320 Church Members Podcast. My name is Scott and I'm your 11 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,200 host today and we have two guests in our studio. 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,720 One, our podcast producer, Whitney Maynus is sitting in as 13 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,320 Co lead and guests. So you're wearing a couple 14 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:51,800 different hats. So welcome, Whitney. 15 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:53,240 Thanks, Scott. Good to be here. 16 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,880 And then we have Melissa Ramirez. 17 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,240 I think it's your first time in. So yes, thanks for being here. 18 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,960 You are serving on our care and recovery team and you 19 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:08,680 specifically work with kids and teens and we're grateful for 20 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,400 your time. One thing we want to talk about 21 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,880 is we want to use a recent camp, summer camp that we've done 22 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:20,360 called Ascend Camp, to really highlight some of the ministry 23 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,080 that we've had the privilege to grow and develop and just be a 24 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,160 champion, you, Melissa, primarily. 25 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,680 And so, but before we do that, tell us a little bit about your 26 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,320 background, how you got to Grace Church. 27 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,720 OK, so well I am a certified child life specialist. 28 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:44,000 I have been for We don't need to do the math a long time. 29 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:49,640 So before I got to Grace in 2016, I had worked at a 30 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,640 Children's Hospital in Wichita, KS as a child life specialist 31 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,240 there. And I've been there for 10 years 32 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:01,960 working with kids of all ages in crisis and mainly in Pediatrics, 33 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,360 all departments of Pediatrics, but also an adult and adults as 34 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:07,840 well. Whenever it involved children, 35 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,520 if there was a death or a crisis of any kind within a family is. 36 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:17,840 So we moved here in 2016 to be close to family because we have 37 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,680 a son who was born with kidney failure, chronic illness, and 38 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,560 then also a cerebral palsy diagnosis, had a kidney 39 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,360 transplant. And once his doctors gave us the 40 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,320 go ahead, we moved here. But it put us when we came here 41 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,800 and we came to Grace Church. I will say that we kind of came 42 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:40,200 in need of a church that could handle us, you know, because we 43 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:44,040 had to church separately for three years until we got to 44 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,560 Grace and found Grace almost immediately and just found a 45 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,440 place for our son to be able to be. 46 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,240 And not just for him to be able to be, but for us to be able to 47 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,240 church together and then also value a serving as well. 48 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,280 And then not just be like, you're going to get here on 49 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,120 Sunday morning and we're going to watch your kid for an hour, 50 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:04,680 but we're also going to pour into you. 51 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:09,480 Yeah, so so you move here to to be in your family after this 52 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:14,040 life changing event and you just start like so many people have 53 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:15,960 all right, for different reasons moving to the Upstate. 54 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:17,320 So you just come to Grace as a member? 55 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:22,000 Yes, came to Grace as a member in 2016 and then tried to get a 56 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,560 job in the hospital, almost went that route. 57 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,520 But again, with our son, it was just going to be impossible for 58 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,920 me to work those hours that they were asking. 59 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,480 And to make a very Long story short, somebody said, well, why 60 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,240 don't you apply for a job at the church? 61 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,160 And I was like, I don't know that you guys could use me for 62 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:39,840 anything. I don't know I'd be good at 63 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,320 anything here. But I sent my resume to HR like 64 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,680 I was requested to. And next thing I knew in a 65 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,360 couple months later, I was on staff with care and recovery. 66 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,920 And I've been doing child life here at Grace so. 67 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,280 Yeah, that's great. So just for those that that 68 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:59,360 might be a new term, I know you kind of were able to explain it, 69 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,200 but just real quickly, child life specialist in a couple of 70 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,400 sentences is what? Sure, so child development 71 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:10,280 expert who has an emphasis of understanding what trauma in 72 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,360 crisis does to the children and families. 73 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,200 OK, awesome. So several different things 74 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,440 you've been able to to be a part of working on over the last 75 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,960 almost 10 years. But specifically we want to talk 76 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:26,840 about Ascend camp. What? 77 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:32,480 What is Ascend camp? It is a camp for children and 78 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:40,000 teens, so it ages about 7 to 18 or 7 until senior year until 79 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,600 just graduated that have been through crisis of any kind. 80 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:49,760 Right now we offer it for kids who have had the lost, the death 81 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:54,120 of a loved one, the divorce of the parents or have a sibling 82 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,680 with disabilities, chronic illness or special needs. 83 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,520 But we are constantly talking about how to expand that because 84 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,280 those are not the only hard things that children go through. 85 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,040 So we are trying to expand curriculum. 86 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,480 We're trying to look for new things, things that we can do to 87 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,840 open it up to more kids. But right now it's Greece, 88 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,480 grief, divorce and siblings of kids with disabilities and 89 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:16,320 special needs. OK. 90 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,200 And let's talk about the scope. I know this summer we had two 91 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,240 different offerings, correct? One at our Powdersville campus, 92 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,640 one in our Pelham campus. Tell us just roughly about how 93 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,640 many kids participated and how many leaders were able to serve 94 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:31,800 those kids. Oh goodness. 95 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,840 OK. So in Powdersville we had 23 96 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:40,600 kids and Pelham we had 72 kids and that's across ages. 97 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:46,040 So it varies every year how many kids we have in each of those 98 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:47,720 groups. One year we're really heavy 99 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,400 grief, the next year we're really heavy divorced and like 100 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,800 this year we were really, really heavy for siblings. 101 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,440 I'm just needing a lot of help for siblings with kids with 102 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:01,440 special needs and disabilities. So it it varies which group on 103 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,760 both campuses and I could not give you an exact number for 104 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,680 that. Same thing with ages. 105 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,600 One year we're heavy teens and the next year we're heavy 106 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,120 younger kids. So this year it was kind of 107 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,600 spread out across the board pretty much with Powdersville, 108 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,160 we had younger kids and then tell them it was spread out a 109 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,560 good amount. Leaders probably at Powdersville 110 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,160 we had somewhere between 10 and 15 and then at Pelham around 111 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,840 2025. And we always need more. 112 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,200 I mean, you were scrounging that last week. 113 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,480 Like who can we get? And God provided, He always 114 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,400 provides. Since we're talking a little bit 115 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,520 of details and then we'll zoom back out because this is 116 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,560 multiple days. It's 5 days. 117 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,600 Five days, Whitney, how did you get involved? 118 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:43,840 Like what's your connection here? 119 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:49,160 Yeah, so when I was a Kairos intern five years ago, my boss 120 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,680 said, hey, you're going to go help Melissa Ramirez with ascend 121 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,280 camp. And I also feel like we should 122 00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:59,560 say it sounds like we're saying ascend camp, right? 123 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:04,400 It is a SCEND ascend like ascending going up. 124 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,720 Just to clarify for anyone who is spank wonder. 125 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:09,720 They're listening on 1 1/2 speed, which you should be. 126 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:11,880 We definitely don't want you to get confused. 127 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,240 That's right. And I was like, OK, so I'll just 128 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,680 go. I'll show up and ended up 129 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,640 leading a group that year and it was just really fun. 130 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,560 It was really sweet. It was me and a few other 131 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,480 interns and we had less than 10 kids. 132 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,680 And we had that very first year, we had six kids. 133 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:29,680 Well. Yeah, yeah. 134 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,040 So very small and we're still learning. 135 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,280 We're like still a little bit in the COVID era. 136 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,320 So, you know, dealing with all of that A. 137 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,240 Little bit, very much. So the kids weren't allowed to 138 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,560 go inside in July. We had to stay outside the whole 139 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,840 time, someone just said. So that kind of that helps 140 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,440 people kind of know this is relatively new, I mean, even 141 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:49,840 though that was what, five years ago. 142 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,960 Yeah. And then since then, for the 143 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:57,320 past four of those five years, I think I let another group. 144 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,400 And then I have also served as a coach both at Pottersville and 145 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:03,600 Pelham, which has been fine just to see both sides of it. 146 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,440 No, that's great. When you say 100 kids, I mean, I 147 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,440 always think in terms our kids are grown now, but when they 148 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,560 were in elementary school, you know, they would have 25 kids to 149 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,320 a class. So that's like 4 full classroom 150 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,200 of elementary kids. That's a lot of kids. 151 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:19,680 Now. I know this is all the way up 152 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,720 through age 18, but just just so you know, like 100 kids, that's 153 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,200 quite an undertaking representing let's just say 100 154 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,800 families. And so, but Melissa, tell us 155 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:34,520 like, why So I know you mentioned grief, divorce, 156 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:40,520 siblings, but really, why do we want to put this kind of energy 157 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,400 into a five day camp for 100 kids? 158 00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:49,680 Well, first of all, I mean, let's just talk about the heart 159 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:54,840 of Christ, right? I'm not being cheesy there. 160 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,480 I mean, let's like seriously talk about the heart of Christ 161 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,120 and how much he cares about children. 162 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,200 I mean, he says I will. I will be close to the broken 163 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,360 hearted come to me. He will carry heavy burdens. 164 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,440 I mean, he he has a heart for those who are in tough places. 165 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:13,040 So if we're looking at that alone, I mean, we're just we're 166 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,800 called to as Christ's followers to care the care for those who 167 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,680 are hurting. And he also cares for the least 168 00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:23,600 of these. He calls children the least of 169 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,320 these. You know that our, our children, 170 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,520 whether they're a teenager or whether they are newborn, they 171 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,320 don't have fully developed bodies, they don't have fully 172 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,200 developed brains, which puts them at a place of vulnerability 173 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:41,520 and it puts them at a place of, of need and help anyway, when 174 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,280 you don't put crisis on top of that. 175 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:49,520 But when you put these type of experiences on them, when they, 176 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:53,800 they have been dealt these cards in life, they need help. 177 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,720 They need desperate help. And, and Jesus calls us to help 178 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:01,400 them. And I, I give this one of the 179 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,440 things that sticks out to me, stories that sticks out to me in 180 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,400 the Bible is when the disciples are trying to keep the children 181 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,840 away from Jesus. And it's one of my favorite 182 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,400 things to mention because in that moment he shows, no, I 183 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,560 mean, I care about these little humans. 184 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,440 They matter. They are not to be shooed away. 185 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:27,240 They are not to be kept, you know, seen and not heard. 186 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,640 They are, they deserve to be heard and they they deserve to 187 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:32,200 be known and they deserve to be loved. 188 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:36,280 So, I mean, if we're just getting down to basics, I mean, 189 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:41,040 that's our main reason. But another thing that, you 190 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,680 know, we get out with all this is, you know, the fact that 191 00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:48,960 crisis really effects humans long term, especially when they 192 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:53,560 happen when they're children. So let's talk about adverse 193 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:55,080 childhood experiences for a second. 194 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,320 That's a scientific term. Some people might know what that 195 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,200 is, some people might not know what that is. 196 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,480 But basically that is any experience that a child may 197 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,520 experience that that happens to a child in childhood that is 198 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,440 chronic, that it can't affect them long term. 199 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:14,280 So, so this could be anything from having their own chronic 200 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,120 illness to having a family member with chronic illness or a 201 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:18,520 disability. I mean, we're going to think 202 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,480 about our mosaic families that is considered an adverse 203 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,160 childhood experience, the death of a loved one, especially when 204 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:29,160 it's, you know, in your, your family of origin within your 205 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:34,000 home that can now any death of a loved 1 is a big deal for a 206 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,200 child or anybody else, whether it be a grandparent, a friend, 207 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,120 or in the home. It all has an effect. 208 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:46,400 So these adverse childhood experiences on top of just the 209 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,560 developmental aspect of just being a child, it creates a 210 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:53,800 situation where there is a need. So are we going to? 211 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:55,800 We're saying that there's a big gap in that. 212 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:57,840 And what? We're trying to do is we're 213 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,600 trying to move into the gap. Why do we think the gap exists? 214 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,040 And is it, does it have to do something with how we our lack 215 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,280 of understanding of developmental stages? 216 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,640 Does it have to do with the way we think about children? 217 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,840 Just in your mind's eye, when you see this issue through the 218 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,400 lens of the specialist, why is there a gap? 219 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,080 So when it comes down to it, I mean, there, there's a million 220 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:25,720 reasons for the gap. But if we're really, if we can 221 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,440 pinpoint one thing, it would probably be that they just can't 222 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,400 advocate for themselves. They're in a place of 223 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,520 vulnerability. They don't have the language, 224 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,960 they don't have the brain development, they don't even 225 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,240 understand their own emotions to know how to say, hey, I'm 226 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,760 hurting. So historically, what we see and 227 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,000 really kind of what got me into this line of work in the 1st 228 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,880 place. I took a child development class 229 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,080 when I was, you know, many moons ago in college. 230 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,080 And one of the first things that I heard is that children who are 231 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,720 grieving or neglected, often neglected because their grief 232 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,160 goes unnoticed. And it just because they don't 233 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,520 know how to express it, it's often interpreted as bad 234 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,800 behavior or is interpreted as they're OK Because most times, 235 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,720 especially younger children, you know, you can say, hey, your dad 236 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,080 just died. And they say, OK, can I go jump 237 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,080 on the trampoline now? And so that's interpreted as, 238 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,440 oh, they're, they're fine. They're doing OK. 239 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,000 But really, as you said, the gap of understanding child 240 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,600 development is just not there across the board. 241 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,560 And then also, I just think culturally, we, we care from, 242 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,760 you know, the oldest to the youngest and they're forgotten. 243 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,680 They're just that children are often forgotten. 244 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,280 Yeah, and I think something that I've even seen in myself, and I 245 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,360 haven't really lived long enough to see like a ton of children 246 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,400 grow up. I'm starting to see their 247 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,400 development overtime more and more. 248 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,880 But I think I separate this idea of like here's a child and 249 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:50,520 here's an adult. And those are two different 250 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,280 things. And it's almost like I can 251 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:56,120 forget that the child, the five year old will be a 30 year old 252 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,240 or a 50 year old. Like they will vote one day, 253 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,480 they will drive one day, they will have a job and 254 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,320 responsibilities in their own families. 255 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,840 So as Melissa's talking about this idea of like chronicness, 256 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:12,000 that these things that they're experiencing will affect them 257 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,200 for the rest of their lives. But we can forget that because 258 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:16,920 they, they went and played on the trampoline. 259 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:18,640 So we're like, they're, they're funny, right? 260 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:20,480 They're OK. And what we forget, yes, you 261 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,720 know, childhood is this very short period of time in a 262 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:28,680 human's life, right? But it has the most impact on a 263 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,880 human's life. What happens in your childhood 264 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,480 directly effects what's going to happen in your adulthood. 265 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,800 What you experience in your childhood will affect what you 266 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,720 believe about God, about others, and about yourself. 267 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,880 Because we've even talked about region on this podcast, and a 268 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,040 lot of that is you go back and you look at your childhood and 269 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,760 then see how those things are impacting the way that you think 270 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:55,400 about yourself and you think about God now. 271 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,920 And a lot of times, the needs that stem from crisis, it's not 272 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,480 just one, There's often overlapping needs in some of 273 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:06,600 these families. Is that correct? 274 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,120 Yes. So I would say most of the time 275 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,600 kids are coming with more than one thing. 276 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:20,680 It's very rarely just, you know, I'm coming because my parents 277 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,040 didn't get along and they got divorced. 278 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,520 No, it usually is something more than that. 279 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,640 You know, a parent cheated or a parent was an addict of some 280 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,400 kind or financial troubles are involved. 281 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,400 I had to move one of the kids at the camp. 282 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,000 I, I sat in, in one of the groups and they were talking 283 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,720 about the hardest things about divorce. 284 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,280 And one kid was talking about the change of having to leave 285 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,400 his home and how hard that was for him. 286 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,560 He's having to move. That was his hardest thing. 287 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,920 It was dominating his thoughts. Several of our kids, we think, 288 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,800 well, do we put them in the grief group? 289 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,280 Do we put them in the divorce group or do we put them in the 290 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,720 sibling group? They could literally go to any 291 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:04,240 of them because one of those chronic needs can affect the 292 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,200 other chronic needs. So it's, I don't know the exact 293 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,920 stat anymore. It's probably gone up. 294 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,800 But I do know that if there is a sit, if there is a child with 295 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,600 disabilities or special needs, parents are 50% more likely to 296 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,080 get divorced. And then if you add in the death 297 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:26,520 of a child, parents are 50% more likely to get divorced. 298 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:31,400 And I, I, I will say, you know, my family, you know, I mentioned 299 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,120 earlier that I have a son with chronic illness and special 300 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,160 needs. I also have a daughter that died 301 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,000 seven years ago. So my daughter has actually been 302 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,080 through both groups at Ascent and several of our kids come 303 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,880 back year after year because this year they're they're really 304 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:49,880 struggling with their parents divorce in the next year, 305 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,520 they're really struggling with their siblings disability and a 306 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:53,960 lot of them overlap. Yeah. 307 00:16:55,040 --> 00:17:01,120 So, OK, then how do you begin to go about the, the discovery of 308 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:06,760 the emotions and ultimately the, the healing knowing that it's 309 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,760 just five days, right? So, but you know, things are 310 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,480 very intentional. We recruit leaders intentionally 311 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,440 curriculum just kind of walk us through like, what are we, what 312 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,800 are we really trying to accomplish with these different 313 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:20,680 groups, right? Because. 314 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,839 We are not fixing what is going on with your child in five days. 315 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,319 And for most of them, we just couldn't if we yeah, five years, 316 00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:30,040 we had 20 years. We just. 317 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,400 These are things that and. We have to understand that's the 318 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,320 Lord's work. That's the Holy Spirit's work, 319 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,960 you know? But what we're doing is, again, 320 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:42,120 most of our kids who have experienced these things are 321 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,520 feeling like they live in isolation, even though they 322 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,680 don't live in isolation. Even though we know that the 323 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,800 divorce rate it is extremely high and that we have a 324 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:56,280 gazillion families, a mosaic families in this church and that 325 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,440 ever other kids have lost loved ones. 326 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,680 For a child who again is not at had does not have the capability 327 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,680 yet to express that can often feel very alone. 328 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,400 And let mean let's not just limit up to children. 329 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,080 Adults go through that too, you know, but again, for a child 330 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:15,800 that those feelings are intensified. 331 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,880 So what we're doing at a sin camp is, you know, if we could 332 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,080 narrow it down, we're giving them skills. 333 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,280 We're trying to give them skills emotionally, how to express them 334 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,360 in a healthy way, how to go to the ward with them, how to talk 335 00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:33,280 to the parents about them. But if if we only accomplished 2 336 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:38,120 things we consider a success, and that's one that they're not 337 00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:40,640 alone and that they have a God who cares. 338 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,520 And if they leave with those two things, we, we have done our 339 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:49,840 job. Now more than that, again, we 340 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,040 know that the thing that is going to help a child more than 341 00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:54,880 anything is what is happening within the home. 342 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,080 So we're doing a lot of work on the front end and we're doing a 343 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,320 lot of work on the back end to make sure parents have a voice 344 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:04,800 and that they're getting equipped. 345 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,240 So once kids sign up, we're calling parents and we're asking 346 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,720 for history. What has happened within your 347 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,080 family? Give us a little bit an idea of 348 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,400 how your child is dealing with this and how can we support you. 349 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:22,200 And are most parents receptive? Most parents are very receptive. 350 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,840 I mean, most parents express thankfulness that there is 351 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,520 something like this because they're trying to get their 352 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,440 child help and they don't. The only thing that's out there 353 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,920 is counseling and. To your point previously, it's 354 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,680 it's not like the parents have mastered all of their emotions 355 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,320 and their theories around any of these adverse conditions. 356 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,840 Yeah, and often times parents are so consumed with their own 357 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,240 grief that they don't even know how to help another. 358 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,080 Which is why advocacy is an issue. 359 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,760 Yes, which is why advocacy is an issue. 360 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,880 Good way to put that. So we're calling them 361 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,600 beforehand. We're getting information 362 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,480 parents, we're put in a position to really help and support 363 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,880 parents at the same time because it's not uncommon for parents to 364 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:03,400 start crying on the phone. And in that moment, we're able 365 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,440 to connect them to, you know, pastors within the church. 366 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,800 We're able to connect them to more ministries to help get them 367 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,280 support, answer any questions that they might have beforehand. 368 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,440 At the same time, we're not leading the kids with that 369 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,960 information. You know, we're, we're telling 370 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,000 the leaders, hey, let the kids tell you what what they see. 371 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,840 Just because some parents don't have it completely accurate, you 372 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,840 know, but it does give us a starting point. 373 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,080 And then at the end, we do a debrief with parents after to 374 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,280 make sure that they have questions answered, that they 375 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,120 know what other resources are out there. 376 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,200 And sometimes that ends in doing a shepherding meeting because 377 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,960 they we realize how much more help parents need. 378 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,560 But one of the most beautiful things that I've seen as parents 379 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,280 be able to talk to each other and support one another in the 380 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,520 midst of that and say, hey, like, see in a room, hey, 381 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,040 there's fifty other families here. 382 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:52,240 I'm not alone. That's right. 383 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,480 Yeah. So when you paint a picture for 384 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,520 for listeners of a day, you know you've got groups of kids. 385 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,560 What does it look like? Yeah, there another element that 386 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,360 I love to talk about. You know, Melissa did a great 387 00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:07,360 job of talking about those two goals that we have. 388 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:11,160 I think a third one right underneath those is just fun and 389 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,240 play. Every single year we have 390 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,720 parents who come at the end of the week and they tell us like I 391 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:23,520 have not seen my kid have fun or laugh or play, which is such a 392 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,480 critical. I mean, Melissa, we, we talk all 393 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,000 the time how important play is even for adults, but especially 394 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,720 for children. And it is healing. 395 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,280 It's important and. It's one of the only activities 396 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,160 where you use your entire brain. So it builds. 397 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,160 Yeah. So it builds connection between 398 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,760 people, It breaks down barriers, it builds trust, and it actually 399 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,360 has healing powers. I mean, it's play is and we 400 00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:54,200 forget the older we get, we get how to play, you know, but it's 401 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,800 so important. But I mean, just think about a 402 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,440 time that you've laughed so hard your belly hurts and how good 403 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,560 that feels, right? I mean, that's what we're doing 404 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,080 for children when they come. We are providing probably more 405 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,160 play experiences than we are. We are providing more play 406 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,320 experiences than we are providing time in a room because 407 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,360 kids, when they're grieving and when they're going to crisis, 408 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:18,000 will forget how to play. Right. 409 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,720 Because even I've set with a counselor for a little bit and 410 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,040 afterwards, like you're walking to your car in the parking lot 411 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,800 and you're like, you know, like you just have all this nervous 412 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,000 energy that you need to get out. And so, so to answer your 413 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,480 question, kids get there, they arrive, they check in with their 414 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:38,360 leaders and for each group, they will have time to play outside 415 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,120 with a structured game. We have incredible volunteers 416 00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:44,960 that put a lot of time and energy into creating activities 417 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,040 and games specifically to help the kids connect with each 418 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,720 other, to connect with their leaders, and just to have fun. 419 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,880 Maybe they're solving a problem together, but they do one 420 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,000 session of that outside and then they do another session inside 421 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,040 and then they have less in time. And that's that happens in the 422 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,840 morning and then it happens again in the afternoon. 423 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:05,840 Duplicate that. Right. 424 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,120 And then when, you know, lunch in between, we do feed the kids. 425 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,560 But I think that it we really see just as they're processing 426 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,280 difficult things, as you know, they're sharing emotions for 427 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,880 maybe the first time. Like it's so important. 428 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,680 And again, it does just make them feel like they're not 429 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,840 alone, like they're going, We see this with our student 430 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,840 ministry. If we go do a fun activity with 431 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,520 like the girls in my forge group, then they're going to be 432 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,280 so much more likely to share something in Group. 433 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,560 It builds trust with people, like Melissa said. 434 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,560 So I mean, a lot of the day is really built around fun and 435 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,760 play. And that way we will jokingly 436 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,600 say that the perception of a sin camp is that it's sad. 437 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,640 Good VBS, you know, and hate that term. 438 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,600 So we're like, that's, that's not what this is. 439 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,680 And we really are trying to combat that where our kids are 440 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,080 walking in the first day, they're super nervous and 441 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,240 they're like, this is light counseling or like, we're going 442 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:04,640 to have to talk about hard things. 443 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:07,240 And then after the first day, they don't think that anymore. 444 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,640 Summer camp. It's summer camp on Friday. 445 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,800 We have a big water slide. We have a slip in slide. 446 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,080 We have a bouncy castle. We have cotton candy. 447 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,520 We fill them up with sugar, you know, like we just have all of 448 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,120 these fun elements. So that and every year they want 449 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:22,080 to come back like that's. What we hear, they have a lot of 450 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,760 repeaters. Yeah, they want to keep doing 451 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,280 this and that's how impactful it is. 452 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,080 Yeah, that's great, Whitney. That gives us a really solid 453 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,000 picture of the week. And Melissa, while you're here, 454 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,280 you had mentioned just the the things that happened to us in 455 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,800 our childhood have a direct correlation to our adulthood. 456 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,000 And that sounds great, but how does that actually work in some 457 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,360 some tangible ways? Can you just put your child life 458 00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:51,560 specialist hat on and just kind of educate us a little bit more 459 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:56,480 about the development of children into adolescence, into 460 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:57,560 adulthood? Yeah. 461 00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:01,920 So, you know, let's kind of go back to what we talked about 462 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,000 about adverse childhood experiences and how these are 463 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,640 chronic experiences in a in childhood. 464 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,000 It can be, it can sometimes be a one time event, but that is so 465 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,760 stressful that it has lifelong experiences like a sexual 466 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,680 assault, something like that. But when we're thinking about 467 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:24,280 those experiences, really what we're, we're labeling them as is 468 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,080 trauma. Like a lot of people hear that 469 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,480 word now and just kind of minimize it. 470 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,000 I prefer to use the term or the phrase toxic stress because 471 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,920 isn't it is an enormous, we've all been under stress, right? 472 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,720 And we all know how that feels. So we're talking about the types 473 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,480 of experiences that create an overwhelming amount of of stress 474 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,680 that actually affect what we call the 5B's. 475 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,040 And I'll get to that in a second. 476 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,840 But the best way that I can describe this is describe the 477 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,760 brain. And so I am going to go into the 478 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,120 hand model of the brain, which if you've spent any time with 479 00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:58,720 me, you know, Whitney smiling at me right now because I probably 480 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,240 yes, OK, but you can. So if anybody's listening to me 481 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:03,720 right now, they can actually do this. 482 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,200 All right. So if you put your hand up like 483 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,720 a four, OK, All right, with your fingers together, and then you 484 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,800 take those four fingers and put it over your thumb, OK. 485 00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:13,160 So you're like a four and you put it over your thumb. 486 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:14,920 All right. This is what we call the the 487 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,720 hand model of the brain. This is not my own. 488 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,920 It came from Doctor Dan Siegel and his work. 489 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:24,000 He's a great child development specialist expert. 490 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,040 He's amazing. OK, if you look at the base of 491 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,320 your hand, like it right around the wrist, that's considered the 492 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,880 downstairs brain, which is in the brain stem right in the back 493 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,960 of your head. That is our primitive brain. 494 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,960 It is the part of our brain that keeps us alive, all right? 495 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,480 It makes our lungs breathe, it makes our heartbeat, it makes 496 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,040 our blood pump. It is also known as our fight, 497 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,080 flight, freeze response. So it is our primitive brain or 498 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,760 our lizard brain is the thing that keeps us alive, OK, 499 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,240 especially in dangerous situation. 500 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,360 Now, hand still in a fist, the fingers at the top when your 501 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:59,240 fist is closed is considered the upstairs brain, OK, That is your 502 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,680 thinking brain, which is right here and like right in front of 503 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,400 your head, your prefrontal cortex. 504 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,280 OK, so that is where your thinking brain, that is 505 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,240 executive functioning. That is, I'm able to think 506 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,000 through a problem and problem solve. 507 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,120 I'm able to have a conversation with somebody else and see from 508 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:21,520 their point of view. I'm able to think through 509 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,400 beginning to end with everything. 510 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,920 It is my my calm brain. OK, now open your fingers back 511 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,520 up and make a four again. The middle of your hand is your 512 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,320 midbrain, but we're going to focus on the thumb, which is the 513 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,640 amygdala. So the amygdala is your safety 514 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,080 scanner. It's constantly scanning your 515 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,640 environment. It's going safe, not safe, safe, 516 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,000 not safe. Your brain right now is scanning 517 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,880 your environment about every 4 seconds, deciding whether or not 518 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,160 you are in a safe place right now. 519 00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:55,040 OK, so put your fingers back over. 520 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,240 Now pretend like you are walking down Bump rabbit. 521 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,920 OK? And you're just going on a run 522 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,160 or going for a walk and next thing you know, a bear crosses 523 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,280 your path. All right, what are you going to 524 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,720 do? You're going to do what we call 525 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,720 flip your lid. That amygdala, it's sees that 526 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,480 bear as a threat. I'm not safe. 527 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,120 It sends a message to the downstairs brain and makes that 528 00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:19,640 thinking brain come offline. So if you're listening, your 529 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,840 fingers go straight up and that means you are not thinking with 530 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,600 your thinking brain anymore. You're thinking with your 531 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,320 downstairs brain, your fight flight, freeze brain. 532 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:32,360 OK, so now you're just thinking I just need to fight, I need to 533 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:34,520 fly or I need to freeze or I need to fawn. 534 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,800 I need to keep myself safe, which we want that to happen, 535 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,840 right? We don't need to try and talk to 536 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,440 the bear. We don't need to reason with the 537 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,880 bear. We don't need to try and feed 538 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,000 the bear. We need to get away from the 539 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,760 bear and keep ourselves safe. OK, so when a child or any 540 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,040 person really, but we're talking about children right now, has 541 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,600 been through any one of these experiences, death of a loved 542 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,280 one, divorce and sibling with a disability, it is like living 543 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,160 with a bear. It is not like I've just seen a 544 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,080 bear. I'm living with that bear. 545 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,960 So what's happening is my brain, their child's brain is 546 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:15,400 constantly flipping constantly. So what also is happening when 547 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,160 you flip your lid is your body is being flooded with stress 548 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,120 hormones, you're being flooded with adrenaline, you're being 549 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,480 flooded with cortisol. And again, these are all 550 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,600 God-given things to help keep us safe. 551 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,320 But what ends up happening is it's toxic to their system. 552 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,760 And what that can do is it can have an effect on what we call 553 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,360 the five BS. So God created us with this 554 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:41,480 amazing brain, different parts, and particularly with instincts 555 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,320 to just to survive, right? We don't really think about that 556 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,560 as much because we don't live in primitive times, but think about 557 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,040 living in primitive times. Survival was a major part of 558 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,920 life, but this, particularly this midbrain, this, this 559 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,320 amygdala, when we're exposed to certain stresses, it's like 560 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,960 you're saying we can't, we can't really get that stress out of 561 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,160 our brains thinking, so the lid just stays flipped. 562 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:08,960 Or it flips easily. Flips. 563 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:10,680 Flips more. Easily, yeah, because the the 564 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,880 amygdala is often. Hence if we were to do an MRI of 565 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,440 a child who's been through a lot of these experiences, their 566 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,240 amygdala can be up to two times larger, Larger. 567 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,800 So it's going to go off a lot quicker. 568 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,520 So God created us a certain way. We have brokenness that enters 569 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,480 in just difficulty. Whatever is the stress. 570 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,080 Is that like the way you're phrasing that? 571 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,720 And it just exposes the children to something that now is working 572 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,640 adversely against the way God created the brain. 573 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,640 OK, obviously we're back to advocacy. 574 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,160 They can't explain that. They don't know that the parents 575 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,160 living through their own toxic stress, right, didn't say 576 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,520 trauma. So OK, so with that as the 577 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,080 situation then where what have they? 578 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:56,360 What are these bees that are the downline applications of this 579 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,040 toxic stress that's happening in the midbrain? 580 00:30:59,240 --> 00:30:59,800 Right. OK. 581 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,720 So first it has an effect on the brain. 582 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,360 Neurologically, things are gonna be working differently. 583 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,840 Again, like I said, that amygdala is can be up to two 584 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,320 times larger and the neural pathways can change. 585 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:14,920 So that's one. And it's just a simple way for 586 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,880 me to put that biology changes. So because of the cortisol and 587 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,120 the adrenaline that's constantly being released and it's more 588 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,600 likely to just stay up because the body is used to it staying 589 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,280 up, that has a toxic effect on the body system. 590 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,640 So more likely to have as they get older and go into adulthood, 591 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,400 more likely to have diabetes, more likely to have heart 592 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,440 disease. I'm just an array of other 593 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,520 health problems. OK, Body just can constantly 594 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,080 feel tense or insecure. So the 4th 1 is behavior, which 595 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,760 is the one that most people notice in children and adults. 596 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,120 But again, we're talking about children because they are more 597 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,880 likely to flip their lid a lot quicker and they're living in 598 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,280 survival mode most of the time. They can either shut down 599 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,480 completely when they feel unsafe and it could be a situation like 600 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,040 there's no reason for you to feel unsafe. 601 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,200 We're having fun right now. But their body recognizes that 602 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,240 high amount of adrenaline as unsafe. 603 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,160 So they may shut down completely or they may accidentally hit a 604 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,600 friend not thinking, or they may lose their mind and throw a 605 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,560 temper tantrum at age 12. So that's kind of what what we 606 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,400 notice most of the time and people in general will interpret 607 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,600 as bad behavior. And it's not that it doesn't 608 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,400 need to be corrected, but we're also needing to keep in mind 609 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,960 that their behavior is affected due to their experiences. 610 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,520 And the the last one and the big one that I really want to talk 611 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,400 about is their belief system. Belief system about self, belief 612 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,760 system about others and belief system about God. 613 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,920 So these things that they have that that children have 614 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,840 experienced can affect the way that they view themselves. 615 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,680 Am I worthy and I'm am I worth being loved? 616 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,880 Am I worth being seen? Does anybody see me their belief 617 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,680 system about what other people think about them or what they 618 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,200 think about others? People aren't trustworthy. 619 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,360 So why should I enter into a relationship or how do I enter 620 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:04,920 into a relationship in a healthy way? 621 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,080 Because nobody has proven themselves as trustworthy. 622 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,880 And the other one is, you know, long term, like what is their 623 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:15,160 belief about God is a God a being that doesn't care, that 624 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,000 just stands off and watches me in pain. 625 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,560 And so when we talk about ascend, these are things that 626 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,080 we're trying to combat. You know, we're not going to fix 627 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,560 the five BS again in a week, But one of the big things that we 628 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,720 can help begin to retell for them is that God sees them as 629 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,040 worthwhile. God sees them as worthy. 630 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,400 He sees them as seen he knows them. 631 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,000 He's he's in their story. So then we're back to the 632 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,720 beginning, which is where we started, which is which is why 633 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,800 we need to do this because we have a God who sees a God who 634 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,400 knows, a God who cares that that story, that belief system is 635 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,800 ultimately the the greatest source of hope, encouragement 636 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,440 and identity. But it doesn't happen apart from 637 00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:03,320 the body, the biology, the brain, like it's all working 638 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,360 together. And I think that that's why it's 639 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,920 so helpful because, you know, we can like as church people, we 640 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,920 can be like, yes, we are. We're good on belief system. 641 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,000 Like we major in belief system. That's who we are. 642 00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:17,480 And then we get tripped up when we see behavior and we can't 643 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,639 quite understand it or interpret it. 644 00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:24,120 So then if we don't have some of these other bees, you know, like 645 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,239 you're talking about biology, body, brain, which I understand, 646 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:29,880 it's complicated. What you just described to me, 647 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,360 you just put it in the most simple terms and people are 648 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,360 driving down the road going, what did she just talk about? 649 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,199 Which is it was why God gifts different people to the church. 650 00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:43,120 But like that kind of summarizes why we want to be in this space. 651 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,960 And I wanted to ask you, it seems like this is a missing 652 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,159 space for a lot of churches. Would you agree with that? 653 00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:51,440 Yes. Very much so. 654 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,120 Because I think you said earlier that we developed most of the 655 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,720 most of the curriculum and this is not a great church is so 656 00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:00,320 awesome Pat on the back. I mean, this is just God's favor 657 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:01,760 leading us. You already heard Melissa's 658 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,920 story in that but so why do you think most churches or kind of 659 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,640 struggling to be in the space? What I have noticed in the 660 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:14,520 church is that the older a person gets and there's cap, 661 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,120 once they hit really elderly, we kind of, we hit vulnerable 662 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,800 again, you know, but we, we tend to care from the top down, which 663 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,960 means we care from, I mean really the parent down and we 664 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,160 tend to assume that the parents have got it. 665 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:31,800 Gotcha. So assumption is a part of. 666 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,240 It yeah, assumption is a part of. 667 00:35:33,240 --> 00:35:35,520 It it's the parents responsibility and they got it 668 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,240 and if they don't they should be able to ask for help. 669 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,120 Yes, and but often times they don't have it, you know, they 670 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,080 they're trying to be discipled themselves, let alone learn how 671 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,280 to disciple their child and look outside behavior to what is 672 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,040 going on deeper in their hearts. Into what you said earlier too, 673 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,840 like I think so many of the parents and kids that we get at 674 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,560 a sin camp, you've already said this. 675 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,160 Like they don't know what else to do. 676 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,560 Like they're desperate. They're like, I don't know where 677 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,160 else to go. And so I'm willing to try this. 678 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,040 Yeah. And then so one, I mean, I what 679 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,640 I have learned when I, when we first started doing care and 680 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,160 recovery for kids and teens, when I first came on staff, 681 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,560 looking for curriculum is like looking for a needle in a 682 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,560 haystack. There is, you know, every single 683 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,280 time I looked for something, it was just regular children's 684 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,920 ministry curriculum, regular student ministry curriculum, 685 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,960 like there was nothing out there for the hard in life and so. 686 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:39,560 But there's a lot of secular. Resources. 687 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,280 There's a lot of secular resources. 688 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,560 Yes, there is. But often times they can talk 689 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,560 about things that maybe we're not ready to talk to our 690 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,360 children about yet or more so they're just leaving out this 691 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:57,680 piece of that. They have a savior that cares. 692 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:02,120 Yeah, that belief who God is, what he went to the send his son 693 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,480 Jesus. And it's good curriculum. 694 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,720 The secular curriculum is good curriculum. 695 00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:10,760 But we also want them to know that they, again, they have a 696 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,680 savior that cares. And so and that's just not out 697 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,520 there. And so that's where we've just 698 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,400 had to make our own curriculum. Yeah, No. 699 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,840 No, no, it does take resources. And a lot of churches, they 700 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,240 don't, they don't have the resources. 701 00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:27,000 And so thankful that that grace has the resources. 702 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,320 We've said this related to our Mosaic ministry that, you know, 703 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,760 God just put us in a unique position to be able to to rally 704 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,280 to serve families in our community. 705 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,080 So, and that's really what we're trying to do on this podcast is 706 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,400 just shine a light on some of the work that God has done shown 707 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,120 his favor. And really, if you're out there 708 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,520 and you're hearing this maybe for the first time and you're 709 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,000 like, wow, that's really amazing. 710 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,000 You know, praise God. If you're interested in getting 711 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,200 involved, Melissa's got some ways, but let's just kind of 712 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,600 wrap with both of you saying anything that we haven't said 713 00:37:58,600 --> 00:37:59,960 yet. Specifically, what would you 714 00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:06,200 want someone who's listening to just think and feel towards 715 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,640 these children and teens that are, you know, dealing with this 716 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,000 kind of adverse conditions, toxic stress? 717 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,160 I think one thing that I will say that I've heard Melissa say 718 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,680 for the past five years, one of the other things that we are 719 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,240 communicating to children that the church is a safe place to 720 00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:26,640 talk about your messiness. And I think that is something 721 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:31,040 that we do well of. We're not hiding from the tough, 722 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,480 the hard. We're willing to go there. 723 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,680 We're willing to engage in. We don't always know the 724 00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:38,560 answers. And again, we're not fixing 725 00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:41,400 anything. Like the world is broken and we 726 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,320 live in it and God is in it with us. 727 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:48,240 But I think there's also something for these kids that 728 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,920 later on in their life, you know, whatever they endure, 729 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,200 wherever they find themselves, that hopefully they will 730 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,960 remember. Like in that really difficult 731 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,720 situation in my childhood, who showed up for me? 732 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,520 The church did that. Oh, I went to this really fun 733 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,440 camp and we talked about God. And I think those are people who 734 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,040 want to help and who care. And so again, not that we're 735 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:18,000 trying to boast in Grace Church specifically, but just that God 736 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,960 has created his church for the purpose of caring for the 737 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,720 vulnerable and that that in some way would continue to draw them 738 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,360 back to his people. And that group of people didn't 739 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,280 have answers as much as they just had presents. 740 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,480 Yeah, we just played and went down a water slide, but they 741 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,080 cared about me. Yeah, I'm not alone. 742 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,040 They embody a God who cares. Taught me about a God who cares. 743 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:41,680 And we had a good time. That's true. 744 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,680 Yeah. Well, So what say you? 745 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,080 If somebody wants to be involved, I mean, they can just 746 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,080 e-mail your campus, let your campus know that you want to get 747 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,280 involved. But I do want to just bring, you 748 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,240 know, on that topic, bring up our leaders because we have 749 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,720 people who take vacation time to do this. 750 00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:05,680 We have people who are serving out of their own stories, which 751 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,720 is hard. It every year we have some 752 00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:12,680 leaders that really need help being cared for by the end of 753 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,640 the week. And we try to set things up. 754 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,040 You know, we do debriefs every day to make sure people are 755 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,240 cared for. But I mean, people are, are 756 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:24,360 telling kids their own stories or kids will mention something 757 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,040 and they're like, Oh my gosh, I never dealt with that as a kid. 758 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:29,880 And now it's coming up for me. But they still come back year 759 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,800 after year. They see that what we're doing 760 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:38,040 is really worthwhile. And kids who come in also who 761 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:39,840 are just scared to death and think they're going to be 762 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:45,160 sitting in a room crying all day, come in and I hear stories 763 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,760 from the leaders about how they've opened up about 764 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,800 something for the first time. One of my my favorite stories, 765 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:56,320 we we piloted one group and we did a lament jar and one of our 766 00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:00,480 siblings groups and one of our teenage boys, maybe I don't 767 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,800 know, 13 did started putting his limit, writing his limit down, 768 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,080 putting it in the jar. And at the end he goes, oh, that 769 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,800 felt so good. A 13 year old boy like that 770 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,240 doesn't happen. You know, to to Whitney's point 771 00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:17,720 where we're showing them at the church cares about their messy 772 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,000 and they don't have to have it all together. 773 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,600 Back to what we kind of talked about before with kids. 774 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,320 Sometimes, inadvertently, we end up communicating to kids that 775 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,960 they've got to shape themselves up before they come because we 776 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:31,760 want their behavior to get in line. 777 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,480 And we're kind of giving them the opposite of this. 778 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,880 We're like, bring your messy in. We're ready for it. 779 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,360 God's big enough to handle it. These kids are like you said, 780 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,360 they are precious and we want to do our best, give our best 781 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,600 effort to honor them in the way that God sees them and wants to 782 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,320 care for them. So thank you ladies for being 783 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,520 here today and hope you enjoyed listening and learning. 784 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,360 I know I learned a lot. Reach out to your care and 785 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,200 recovery team. Tell them you appreciate what 786 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,600 they're doing. See how you can get involved in 787 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,160 the life of the church. So thanks, ladies. 788 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:04,880 Thanks, Scott. Thank you.