With a wild and brilliant guide to the true revolutionary power
of this moment in human thought history.
This is Neon Galactic. I'm James Falk Thanks for
joining us. First, don't forget to like this
video and subscribe to this channel.
If you take a moment and look back through the Neon Galactic
catalog over the past three years, you'll see that we've
featured an unmatched collection of great thinkers, doers and
visionaries on this show. Scores of brilliant names, deep
conversations, probing questions, and a solemn sense of
discovery around subjects that are transforming our species.
UFOs, nonhuman intelligence, PSI technology, philosophy,
esotericism, and more, with a tireless focus on where those
phenomena connect and what they're telling us about the
nature of what's real. I'm electrified by these topics
and hope others can help me to fan that spark.
That's what we do here. To continue these escapades,
though, I need support. So find us@patreon.com/neon
Galactic to get involved, enjoy some perks, learn some things,
and find a new way forward. Our guest today continues the
intellectual tradition of this show by being a radically
original thinker, a synthesizer of threads that have arisen in
recent years from every corner of the world to fundamentally
undermine all the old and tired ontological tropes we've been
fed for millennia. From her work, and that of all
the Renegades that inspire her, a vision seems to be emerging of
a universe that's wired together with math, information, meaning,
novelty, and if we're lucky, some coherence to bind the
batter. There's an intersection that
looms now between technology, consciousness, philosophy, and
even the occult, where the world may discover a shortcut to deep
reality and a path through the spiritual wasteland.
To get there though requires our species to avoid the land mines
now being planted by a techno fascist oligarchy bent on using
their superior resources and quantum gizmos to drive the
creation of a surveillance state where individual attention
becomes a kind of slop for digital hogs.
So the question then becomes, will we invest as equals in this
unfolding future or get sold down the river like so many pork
belly punks? Decisions, decisions.
I'm no expert on these questions, but I know change is
in the offing and the questions now being asked are far
different and more dangerous than most of what came before.
So today, Allison McDowell will help us find our way.
She spent the last half decade and change plunging deep into
Alice's rabbit hole and climbing back out again with a pelt on
her belt and a passion for justice.
This will be a wild ride. Welcome, Allison.
Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much.
Yes, just in today's conversation, I, I'm here to
speak to my own personal journey and I find that a lot of the
things that I'm introducing are new ideas.
And so I'm not here to convince people over to win people to my
side, but simply to offer documentation.
And generally the people who sort of connect with what I'm
saying is that they have their own pin board of question marks
of things that have happened in their lives, right?
And they're like, I knew that that thing was important, but I
still haven't quite figured out why.
And that something that unfolds will resonate with one of those
things on the pin board and then people will want to know more.
And so that's sort of how I approach the interviews rather
than I've got it all figured out.
It's like. I'm going to sell this.
Yeah. Yeah, No, I hear that and I
respect that. Thank you for saying so.
It's, it's interesting, you know, I mean, like I, we were
talking before the interview started that I view these
conversations as fertilizer for folks to find their own threads
within each conversation that they that'll lead them down
their own rabbit holes in the future.
So whatever people can find in any of these conversations is,
is useful. That's good.
The other thing is that we live in, at a time when there's so
much information everywhere. We're all awash.
And I mean, everything that came before and everything that's
looming in the future that to find patterns that make sense
out of all that noise is extremely difficult.
So when we find people who are able to kind of see through the
noise and, you know, kind of you sketch a picture for us of where
we might be headed or, or the dangers that may be looming,
it's important to listen to them.
You don't have to be convinced by them.
But I think that, you know, trying to find a way to
understand that complexity and engage seriously with the danger
and the future is important. So if we can help people do that
in this conversation, I think we're succeeding.
Exactly. Well, and, and just to tell you
a little bit about my background, because this was a
jerk that I never really expected to take.
I'm currently based in Hot Springs, AR, but I spent most of
my adult life in the city of Philadelphia, which later on
we'll talk a little bit about like patterns and energy and
gestalt and archetypes. And Philadelphia is very heavy
in all of those things. And my academic background was
in art history. And then later I got a master's
at the University of Pennsylvania in historic
preservation, specifically around cultural landscapes, in
interpreting cultural landscapes, like literally going
out into Chester County for my thesis and being like, oh, I
think that that hill was like a railroad embankment.
And oh, like, like looking below what was apparent.
And I had one of my thesis advisors once say some something
to the effect. And I almost wonder if it's a
dream at this point. But like, your family will be OK
because you'll be able to see it, you know, And like walking
down Walnut St. in Philadelphia and having, and we weren't super
close. So.
And she was a, an older German woman from the platinate who
lived out in Berks County and like totally the emblem of sort
of a, you know, gentle Crone wise woman sort of thing, you
know, the white hair and the bun, you know, And I still hold
that I'm like, well, I still don't quite figure out what I'm
supposed to see. But much of my research, and it
really started in probably around 2013, was in the
education space around. And that's part of the reason I
haven't done interviews in quite a while because I found that it
seemed like, like you said, there's so much information that
it was just like, squirrels, squirrels, you know, like, every
week it was like a new thing. And there wasn't a lot of
synthesis. But from spending some time
looking at your channel, you seem to be the kind of person
who was on their own journey to, like, understand more about the
operating system and in a more holistic way.
And so I was like, OK, And it's funny because I used to actually
be very triggered by the whole, like, UFO conversation and
things like that. So I'm working through my
triggers and being like, OK, this, this actually makes sense.
You know, I'm going to, I'm going to do this.
So I think the landscape that I was supposed to study is
consciousness. And for me, it's kind of a prank
in the universe because I was generally a good student, but
math was always my downfall, like math and philosophy and
abstraction. And so I was good at like art
history and I, I did symbols and it weirdly symbols overlap with
math. But I never would have thought
that consciousness was a topology, right?
And that it, it could be rendered in mathematical
abstraction and that it could be this rolling landscape of a
tractor fields and, you know, storylines, right?
And you could render it in these other abstracted ways.
And that this relates to our, in my opinion, this shift, this
cosmic shift that's happening in the age of Aquarius, the water
bearer, is that there are higher dimensions of information.
Like I, I look at things from an information theoretic lens,
which is where I put it now. And so like we can't, we all
know that they're as humans, we are operating in a narrow
sensory band, right? And then some people have gifts,
right? And they have a more expansive
band or they operate with a slightly tweaked operating
system and they organize and experience the world
differently. It's this phenomenology.
What is it like to be an Allison?
What is it like to be a James? You know, and, and so, but then
there's these higher dimensions. And it feels like for me where
I'm at at this point is that this shift is how we interface
with these higher levels of information and that that those
higher levels represent and all, we are a piece of the all, an
instance of the all experiencing 3D space-time.
And there is an all there with many more layers and the
conversation is about to become more sophisticated, right?
And then people say, well, why do we need all of these
technologies and things? In my opinion, it's to not just
have a one-on-one with higher dimensions, which Mystics and
you know Yogi's and you know, clairvoyance and people have had
for a long time, but it's to do it collectively as a system, as
a network system and that that conversation may be very
different. So anyway, so my background was
shifting from a background in sort of deep research symbols,
looking at the built environment.
A lot of my stuff is embodied like mapping, going physically,
going to places and then mapping it in an abstract.
I create these really elaborate relationship maps that kind of,
I think have rewired how my brain works.
Like I, I think symbolically and like mind palaces now somewhat.
And that's why I hold on to things.
And then applying that to consciousness.
And now the next step has been consciousness as an
interdimensional information, you know, frequency, right, And
that that has these mathemat higher level mathematical tones,
which, you know, I used to cry over my Algebra 2 homework and
like, you know, cry into the, you know, outside my bedroom.
And so this universe saying, OK, you need to stretch, right?
Like I know you don't like economics, you need to learn
economics. I know you don't like
philosophy, you need to learn philosophy.
I know you just like to be in the garden, but the garden can
be your math, right, Like the rotation and the frequency, like
it's OK, like there's other ways to do it.
So anyway, so yeah, I was a public school parent.
I used to say I was a public school parent and a mom public
school parent. I for probably the better part
of eight years fought privatization of the public
schools in Philadelphia all the time being super programmed.
Like I said, I was, I was a generally, I was not a
rebellious person. I was the good student.
I wasn't really the beak kisser, but I always like, like, tell
me, and I'll just jump that bar a little higher, right?
Even if I had to cry, you know? And so I was highly programmed
into the public school system. And only in retrospect, coming
through, I was like, OK, not that I agree with how
privatization was happening, but that there are other ways of
being, learning, processing in the world.
So that's where I was for eight years.
And then I realized it switched, it melded into not simply
technology, surveilling children, using children as a
profit center, but also systems engineering and military
information and intelligence information.
And being in Philadelphia, which is, you know, at the time, you
know, the 6th largest city in the country, going to City
Council, going to the school board meetings and butting up
against these systems, it's kind of like the elephant.
You only know the part you can touch.
At the time. And only tell the story with the
pieces you have on hand. And so this past, you know,
since 20, you know, 12 plus years has been zooming back.
I know I'll never see the whole elephant.
Like I, I know that that's an, there's so many layers to the
onion. And the more you zoom back, the
more you realize, wow, there's a lot I don't know.
And I'm very humble about being open to like unlearning and
relearning, like reconfiguring. But it's something we all need
to be open to, I think, as the future unfolds well.
The thing is like this is where I've landed is I used to be very
judgmental, like this is good, this is bad.
And I saw things that were in many respects back, but I was
defending a system because that was my program not realizing
that actually maybe the system needed to be reworked anyway,
right? Maybe not the way I saw it being
reworked, but so I'm more open to, you know, the Chinese
farmer's parable, right? Like when something shows up and
and people go, oh, that's terrible.
And they're like, well, maybe yes, maybe no.
And then the thing that was terrible turns out to be
something wonderful. And then the thing that turns
out to be something wonderful turns out to be something not so
great. And it's the cycle, right?
So you're just like, no, you know, your family kicked you out
of your old life and and then you had to go to Hot Springs and
people might say that's terrible.
And I'm like, actually, despite having disconnected from them,
which I I sorely miss and still love them, being here has taught
me so much that I would never have had otherwise.
So yeah, like, wonderful. Change can come and it can be
fortuitous, even if it's uncomfortable at the time.
Yeah, it's interesting in that educational perspective because
I just was talking to to some folks about education systems
and how, you know, kids are basically stamped out of a
manufacturing plant at most public school systems.
And that's a tragedy. But there's a real challenge in
terms of educating the masses when you have, you know, so many
kids and so little money that our society invests in
education. So how do we balance like, you
know, having a creative intuitive system for kids while
at the same time making sure that everyone gets educated?
There's no easy answers there. And while like you, I looked at
the privatization movement as like, oh, you know, people want
to pull their kids out and put them in Christian homeschooling
systems that'll indoctrinate them.
Maybe so and in that particular slice, but there's, like you
said, other answers out there that could address some of the
problems we're facing, But it's, it's a change.
And that, that's always a gamble, you know?
Well, and one of the themes that I've been working on, like, cuz
I, I sort of picture like I have a Mary Poppins, you know, carpet
bag or something. And I like collect things and I
put them in there right to use. And so you don't have to use all
of them all the time, but you can pull things out.
And so one of the lenses that I've been using a lot lately and
encouraging people to try out is the, this idea of the curious
observer. Because for me, what's really
where I've arrived after being very judgmental and very, I know
the things and I know what's going on.
And then realizing, Oh, actually, I missed all this
other stuff. If I'd known this, I would have
made made different choices. Is this idea.
It's a participatory universe and we're Co creating with it.
And that's John Wheeler, the physicist like his perspective
in this quantum foam, right. And so if you can hold a lens of
a curious observer, it gives you a broader viewpoint to entertain
things that as soon as you weigh in on one side, 0 or one, right,
like yes or no on this, then then your story narrows way
down. Like your view has to narrow
because you're defending a certain perspective.
If You Can Dance around the outside and sort of skirt the
edge of the attractor fields and say Robert Anton Wilson used to
talk about reality tunnels, right, like if, if you could
stroll down the hall of the all the reality tunnels and like pop
in and be like, what's it look like in this one?
And then you have to go all the way to the back, Like, you know,
you don't have to deep dive into Q Anon like to get there.
You can you can pop in and be like, oh, what's it?
What's it like over here today, you know, and sample.
And so I think, I think that sampling, I've found that it
helps keep a broader view if that's what you want.
Now when we said like the the should part, I feel like really
central to this is phenomenology, right?
Our personal experience. And if we're all some fractal of
Indra's net, you know, reflecting the whole.
Yeah, there's no every like in my version currently I call it
my animus live action role play musical and my Animus live
action role play musical. Like there is no one reality
actually there. There are multiple concurrent
realities, some of which overlap.
We can never totally inhabit the viewpoint of another person, but
we can. We can, you know, overlap and
get close with interests and they're all dynamic.
And so it it gets you off the hook of judging and fixing
because you don't like what's good for you.
It's not necessarily good for the other person.
Optimally, we should strive to not hurt other people while
we're doing the thing that is meaningful to us.
So like, and that does happen. I mean, I'm not trying to
minimize that. There are real.
I spent 10 years researching poverty and late stage
capitalism and all the things and I arrived at the point of
saying I cannot fix all of these things as one person.
The only thing I have control of is my perspective and my
frequency. And that paralysis is something
a bunch of people are facing right now on the score of fronts
because we're, you know, with the political situation, the war
in Iran, people tend to shut down as they're overwhelmed with
all of these catastrophes. So going within is really the
most productive thing people can be doing because I, I think
there's a contagion there. I think that that can sort of
metastasize in a positive way and spread among, you know, our
our culture, hopefully, and affect that change that we seem
to think is impossible. Now.
The one other thing I wanted to note is that you're talking
about keeping things on the table and not closing down your
reality tunnels. You know, one of my favorite
thinkers in all of these kinds of topics is Jeffrey Cripple
from Rice University. And one thing he talks about is
keeping things on the table. Like don't decide what the
reality is. Don't choose among the many
theories that are offered up for for various things necessarily
or unnecessarily, because you can learn just by entertaining
these other ideas. And it's not it's a lot of times
it's on either or proposition. Things are are more complicated
than that. So yeah, don't close off your
your reality tunnel. There's exactly what can happen
there. And the challenges, so like one
of the question we talked about a little bit was like the
lockdown period or some like lessons learned.
And for me, one of my big learning points was that because
I had been doing this research around human capital, finance
and technology. And you know, I was writing
about Palantir in 2015, you know, like nobody was like 10
years earlier. And I was in that space.
So I can see that story. I'm like, I lived in that story.
I lived in that story for about 8 years.
And I've moved into another phase of the story.
But I, I realized in retrospect, I would not have gone on my
journey of trying to understand consciousness if it hadn't been
for people who, like, I know love me.
You know, for many, many years could, under the conditions of
this shared trauma that people experienced in very different
ways, view me as something that wasn't me, right?
Like, how could this long history and then these
cataclysmic global shifts pivot a story about me or who I was
into something that was inaccurate, right?
Or that they created a frequency that required a separation and a
distance that that didn't seem proportional to what was
actually happening. It wasn't one of the more
strident people. Like I, I had a lot of concerns
because of my background. I was like, oh, this is how
everything is going to change, right?
But I wasn't an extremist. I kept saying mostly because I
was coming from the education space, not the health space, was
hey, I have this piece around human capital, finance and the
sustainable development goals and digital identity that's
actually needs to be considered. And and in all of that, that's
still not being discussed because the story model became
ESG woke, anti woke and so and, and and I don't consider that
actually propaganda because afterwards in coming to
Arkansas, I spent some time looking into Carl Friston and
his free energy principle and active inference.
And free energy principle doesn't have to do with free
energy like electricity. And it's not that free energy.
Essentially it's a thermodynamic model of the world that we wake
up every morning and we have a model of how we feel the world
works. And generally our consciousness
attends primarily to things that are outside the model.
The rest is on autopilot. And so something that's outside
the model, you have a choice of either adjusting your model or
resampling to just to another spot, look a little to the left
and, and reaffirm the model you have.
And to change the model requires a cost.
There's a cost analysis. And so it's, it's that's why I
think the curious observer mode is less, is more cost efficient
because it's like, try before you buy.
You don't have to commit to the payment.
But if you start to change your world model, there's a cascade,
right? And so if you, if you entertain
the idea that public schools are broken on purpose, then you have
to adjust your world model of who is breaking them and why are
they breaking them? And do they know they're
breaking them? And to what end is it being
broken? And that is that those costs
rise exponentially really fast. And in my case, I was my
research, I would learn new things every day.
So I would take like baby steps. And after 8 years, I was way off
on some archipelago and my family was like, we can't get, I
mean, they, they didn't know to say this, but I can say it
looking back, we can't get there and we're, we're not willing to
jettison the model that we have to get there.
Like if they're the cost benefit doesn't work, it doesn't make
them wrong or me wrong. I didn't leave them on purpose,
but it was my path to take to do that thing.
And so. To say that during the pandemic,
just to clarify, you had been doing research and you got the
more you learn sort of the more further out from the mainstream
view around education and other things that sounds like that you
were sort of alienated from the community that you originally
came from. Is that sort of what you're?
Using yeah, on all fronts really from, you know, my immediate
family members to the people I was an activist with.
I mean, I kept saying like, cuz Philadelphia, I, you know, I
went from like, you know, NPR liberal for many years to sort
of more radical left, you know, like black radical Marxist
reading groups to like, where are all of you guys?
Like, and I would, you know, Philadelphia had a pretty robust
sort of left-leaning scene and I kept like in the years leading
up to 20, you know, 20 saying things like, are we doing
blockchain socialism? Like are we doing cybersyn?
Is Safford be like, is that what this is?
And, you know, The thing is on the left, they tend to like
evoke this like highly intellectual sort of thing, but
only in a very narrow lane, right?
And so if you're picking up things that they don't already
have dialed in, they just it doesn't fit their model and
they're not no one's willing to pay the cost to entertain the
new model because then you might be actually ostracized and
nobody wants to be very few. Some of us there are some people
who are dancing around and surfing the edges of the
attractor fields, but. Yeah.
And I'm not saying that makes me better.
It just makes me weird and different.
But there's for whatever reason, that's the archetypal space I'm
inhabiting this round. Is, is, is that piece?
And so I could see it coming. And so every single group, I
kept saying, but don't you see that all of this is like
advancing big technology or hey, Web 3 token people who are doing
grassroots digital commenting? Don't you see that the World
Bank is setting up human capital, derivatives markets and
preschoolers, You know. Let me ask here.
No, that's, that's brilliant and I want to dive down into that.
So what were the realizations that you had that really put you
out in front or beyond the people that you had been
associated with before? And let's sort of dig into what
those are because I think they, like you're saying they involve
tech and, and human capital and, and all of those things.
And I'm not sure I'd quite grasp the ramifications of everything
you're saying there. Yeah, Yeah.
And so in my process, so my big like I can pinpoint like the
moment my world shifted, like it's, it's interesting because
some people ask like, when did that happen?
And it was, I think it was 2015 like July and there was a public
meeting and Boston Consulting Group had closed 23 Philadelphia
public schools and laid off 3000 teachers and slashed all the
budgets in that spring. And then that summer they
implemented a School Report card.
So they had closed these schools predominantly in low income
black and brown communities. There's issues with kids like
getting to school Gang St. violence.
I mean, everything was discombobulated, right?
And schools were some of the few civic institutions that were
holding communities together. That was the table was flipped,
right? And now we're like, we're gonna
grade you with a report card, but not the charter schools,
right? And, and so we, you know, and
they have these meetings in the summer, so they don't expect
anyone to come. And so we organized like 50
people to go to the meeting and, and we knew it's all Delphi,
right? And so we have like little
placards with our, our displeasure, like, and it wasn't
graphic, like we weren't cursing, but we are very
insistent about that. This was not fair.
Like this is, and you know, of course they have like a 27 year
old guy who's the low person on, you know, who's giving this
spiel. And finally, essentially they
admit that the money for this project was coming from the
Michael and Susan Dell Foundation, right?
And so and, and at the time, again, this is like the
elephant, like I'm zoomed in on like a pour of the skin on the
elephant. I'm like, oh, you're here to get
rid of humans and sell computers, right?
Because this is a profit center. And then and then it zoomed out
a little bit like, oh, you're interested in data, right?
Like, oh, the, the Dell's largest client is the NSA,
right? Like when Snowden went to like
do all his leaks from the NSA, he was a contractor to Dell,
right? And so I'm like, oh, wow, it's
not just money. It's like data, It's
surveillance, right? And then I learned about human
capital finance. So like essentially betting on
futures of children as data and that required a digital
identity. And so I was aware of the
digital identity system way before it became a thing with
passport, health passports and things.
And then I kept moving back and back and eventually I got to the
point like one of the things with the they were particularly
interested in pre-K. So there were certain social
impact bonds, they called them or not then pay for success and
then value based contracts. And it involved the government
because the government would provide access, right?
Because the government was defunded.
So then the government would say, well, we can provide access
to these individuals, whether they be children, children and
people in addiction, homeless people, blah, blah, blah.
Like whatever. We've got the Social Security
numbers, we can give you the access.
And then the investors would invest in social welfare
programs, whether they be education or addiction treatment
or house supportive housing. And then the nonprofits, which
would many of which were faith-based too.
So they would just be somewhere not face based.
But there's a lot of overlapping include the hospital systems.
A lot of them are have a faith-based component.
And then they would collect the data.
And so you could end up with a weird situation where like the
government is defunded, they hand over access for an
intervention for literacy to Hewlett Packard Foundation is
funding it. But the kids all have to be on
Hewlett Packard tablets and do the thing to collect the data to
verify the Hewlett Packard ideal.
So the children end up just being like, like washing
machines. Wrist for the male or whatever,
yeah, they're working through the machine, yeah.
Yeah, right. And, and, and then and I'm like
this does not like, and I found a 2012 document that said
essentially we're going to use this investment in early
literacy and early childhood education to create globally
traded derivative securities like liquid assets.
And I'm like, but that did not work out well with the housing
market in 2008. Like, what do we think we're
going to do? Like a whole bunch of like low
income kids, right? And put them on digital wallets
and do this thing, right? And still to this day, no one
will talk about that like because it doesn't fit anyone's
world model because it involves the government and the
corporations and the nonprofits and the religious groups.
And so everyone picks one that is their thing.
Like I'm the pro, you know, faith-based thing, or I'm the
pro free market thing or I'm the pro government thing.
And no one can entertain the idea that actually the entire
system is involved. And so if it is, then then what
do we do? Right, Because we can't other
someone and in these, and I think it's natural for human
beings to archetypally want to be a hero, want to be the most
of us, want to be the good person.
Like maybe there's a few psychopaths out there, but for
the most part then maybe, you know, there's maybe a slightly
larger chunk of people just don't care either way.
But most people want to live a life that has meaning and feel
like they're on the right side. So if all of a sudden you say
actually the whole thing is really messed up and like we'd
actually have to all come together to figure out how to
fix it, then you start to lose your identity because you're
only you because you're not them does that.
Make sense, Kind of where we're, I mean, isn't that where we're
headed or where we're at right now?
I keep saying, I'm pretty sure that people on either end of the
political spectrum would agree that putting children on
surveillance, play tables to watch their behaviors and then
feed it to an AI to run a derivatives market for global
investors is not the what we should be doing.
And of course, it takes me another five years to realize,
Oh my gosh, those flat screen TV's with the fisheye cameras
are scrying devices, you know? And.
Not even to the sigh part, you know, I'm not even to the point
of like child divination, but I'm like, you know, we we could
all agree that well, or if we are going to go back to a
culture of classical antiquity where we engage children in
divinatory practices, that we do it with some measure of ethics
and informed consent. And that's if it sent all this
to Julia Mossbridge. I'm like, yes, it's not just non
speaking autistic people. It could possibly be the entire
Head Start program. Whether the people on the ground
know that it's happening or not, the data that gets churned up is
what's get sucks into these systems and and propagates it
all right or makes it valuable, I guess I mean.
The challenge is so much of the story is techno fascism, right
or control system or authoritarian top, authoritarian
top down. And because I came in with the
digital identity education wallet that will be linked to
school choice, which is Jeffrey. Yeah, Susquehanna International
Group and TikTok, right? That it's the wisdom of the
crowd in oscillation. It's about oscillating
frequencies, right? And so suddenly you've got an
education savings account or a digital wallet.
That's your digital identity, that's your learn card, right?
That is creating, recreating you as a digital twin, as a
hypergraph, right, With all of the digital information you
interact with, like, you know, John Lilly and programming your
bio computer. It has all of that information
down to every single TikTok video, right to the people you
interact with, to the waves of you as digital information.
And I think in the core of that, that that's where it starts to
link into higher level math and these other higher dimensional
polyhedra shapes, which is something I never imagined like
getting to that point. But we I want to.
Dive into that, people. To that place to even understand
that's a thing, not just school choice is like, I lived for
years, and I'm saying this as someone who went through
multiple processes of occupying space, acknowledging my model
had to shift, shifting to a new model, learning more, shifting,
shifting, shifting. I'm never going to get to the
ultimate model. I know that it's simply a
process of like going through and trying to be authentic and
ethical in where you are at the moment.
But for many years it was public school parents versus private
school parents versus home school parents.
They made us think we were all against each other.
That was not it. And then I thought, oh, this is
about AI against all the kids and investors.
And no, it's not actually that. It's something that involves a
higher dimensional gestalt pattern, right?
And so how do we, Yeah, if we're going to engage in child
divination, like we should start to go back and look at classical
antiquity, right? And the mystery schools and
Eurythmy and Gurdshev in embodiment and frequency and
morphic resonance and all of. But then we would have to
revisit what it is to be embodied as energetic beings and
not simply blobs of like bags of water with DNA, right?
Like as a material thing. And there's just a very narrow
slice I find in people who can entertain all of those things
simultaneously and get. Exactly.
Jumps in and if those things are at the root of the problem or I
mean there's an ontological break that's necessary for the
masses for them to even be to begin to entertain these kinds
of ideas and. I'm always wrong.
Like at this point, like I make these giant relationship maps,
right? It is my mind pulse.
And initially I was making them on a software called
littlesis.org. And it's funny because like,
eventually I realized that it's all funded by open society.
So it was a honeypot. And they were setting up
research teams in all the big cities to research the bad guys,
who are always the Republicans. But what's so ironic is in the
big cities, most all the big cities are run by Democrats.
So I give you, you know, and so it was very strange.
It kept making these beautiful complex maps going look, and
nobody on those teams wanted to pay attention.
Then eventually I made like 400 awesome maps and it was linked
to a database behind. So it was, it was very tedious,
but it rewired my brain, if that makes sense.
But it was my direction. And yeah, they, this guy, Ziggy
at the Public School of Public Health at Columbia University, I
erased all 400 maps. Some of them were staged on
webweb.orarchive.org about, you know, maybe a third of them are
still preserved. And they couldn't wipe all the
data in the databases. A lot of that is still there.
But then I bumped over to it. But I was very judgy at that
stage. At that stage, I was still
making people right and wrong and saying like, I have the high
ground, moral high ground. And you're.
And, and then I shifted and I, I started with a new software
called kumu dot IO with a KKUMU dot IO.
And and so then I became and less judgy in making the
connections and simply it is what it is.
And what's so fascinating is to go back every couple of years
with new information and you can read the depth of the
relationships in a new way because you haven't narrowed it
right. You haven't pre decided the
good, bad part. And so you're like, oh, you
could imagine a different outcome to this story.
And that's where imagination is so important.
And that's why I think children are so important is because they
haven't been fully domesticated in their imagination.
So like, how do you navigate the physics of quantum information
in a way to reimagine? Like for me, the ultimate presto
changeo trick is like, oh, blockchain isn't simply a hash
graph, digital hypergraph, digital twin that the World Bank
can use to speculate on your behavior as a global worker, gig
worker, which there's every reason to believe that's one
version of the story. You could invert it and be like,
oh, actually you're a constellated instance of an
archetypal pattern operating across dimensions and your
blockchain digital twin is your copilot as you navigate in and
out of higher level reality, right?
And that's a totally different story.
And they're, they both can sit side by side and you can still
kind of hold both of them. But if I was stuck in the first
version, I would never have gotten to the second version.
Well, and how much of that future is undetermined?
I mean, it's up to us to make we're.
The Co creator. Either one of those stories
true, right and and. So the, but the, the challenge
is because of the level of trauma that people went through
and the fact that that trauma was managed through digital
physics, right on sub stacks on Twitter or X and on all of these
places, people have built their digital identity themselves
already. They don't need the Klaus Schwab
to do it. They've built a digital it's in
a tractor field, right? And it's very hard to step out
because I was multiple. I was I essentially remove
myself from Facebook after I was attacked by like I was part of,
but it was the best thing that happened to me.
Like again, it felt terrible at the time, but it you know, same
thing on Twitter, same thing on I now just have a YouTube
channel in my WordPress blog. Like I know, you know, like I, I
don't know, people still find my WordPress blog, but I'm very
small in my digital footprint. But I don't know, like it's in
not that that's better. It's just a different flavor of
what? But but Pete, it's hard to walk
away from the community. If you spend 2 hours of your day
trolling sub stacks and you love the people in the comments even
though you've never met them. If you start to entertain a
different imaginative version of the story that might be able to
invert the trauma into something different, you would be an
outcast, right? Because it there would be the
finger pointing of saying, oh, now you're one of them.
Sold out or you've somehow switched teams or or whatever it
is, yeah. And so, but if you can exist a
little bit on the margins, you can entertain these ideas as
long as you say, like I say, this is just my animus live
action role play musical. Like I'm not telling you it's
yours. You've got your own.
I keep, you know, people will send me stuff and I would be
like, it's a choose your own adventure.
Make it good. Like make it good for you.
Yeah, no, I hear that. Like make sure that it's the one
you want because we actually have more agency than we
realize. I.
Want to dive into some things here.
So you had said, OK, first of all you mentioned children
scrying, which I think I need to, I need to know more about.
But then also that there is this gestalt that seems to be a
motivator in this. Does that gestalt, which is I
guess sort of driving some of these these things, is it sort
of a classically considered being with intention or is it
just a collection of the habits and tendencies of human beings
generally that is seems to have a level of independence now?
Yeah. Does that make sense to you?
Yeah. Well, so every So I'm now in Hot
Springs, AR. It's a very woo woo place.
It's very different from Philadelphia.
It's a town of about 50,000 people and we're on one of the
world's most pristine quartz crystal beds.
So we're a giant oscillator. We have the third cleanest lake
in the country, surrounded by 1.8 million acres of National
Forest, which is kind of strange for this part of the country.
Like we're not in the West. So 1.8 million of pristine
Clearwater sitting on a quartz crystal bed.
So this this relates later a little bit to some stuff I might
say about ecological reservoir computing.
And yeah, so it's kind of like lots of people have left Sedona
and then come to Hot Springs, right.
So it's it's a very eclectic place, but for many, many years
was run by the mob. We were the center of illegal
gaming from 1920 till the 1968 when Winthrop Rockefeller of the
Rockefeller family, who was governor shut, shut down the
mob. And so I am I in my live action
role play musical. I have this theory that possibly
because quantum information is all probability and statistics,
which is essentially what gambling is.
And you have the hedge fund version, which is like the
public facing fine version. And then you've got the in the
time illegal version that maybe the mob was running quantum
reality from Hot Springs on this giant oscillator.
Whether they knew it or not, right?
I mean like exactly. And there was a lot of, there
was a lot of prostitution too. So I don't know if there was
like some like sex magic involved in some of that
energetic, like, it's not my main thing.
But like, like in the 1960s, they were doing $100 million in
cash and gambling a year and 40 million in prostitution.
And this was before credit cards, you know, so that's a lot
of moving money around. And of course, we're we're
Clinton country originally until they became New Yorkers And
connection to the Waltons, which the Waltons are really important
in all of this. Sam Walton and networking
networked information and Alice Walton, one of the largest one
of the richest women in the world who has a thing for
crystals and art and working with Deepak Chopra on new models
of healthcare and mental health and this woman, Dana Klistens
rewilding the mind. So there is a lot Winthrop
Rockefeller was governor, right? How does a Rockefeller end up
being governor? You've got Jay and West Virginia
and then you've got Winthrop Pier and we were this the, the
first Lindisfarne Association peer-to-peer Meta industrial
village in 1981. And Bill Clinton hosted the
first climate summit like in Meadow Creek, Arkansas, 3 miles
down a dirt road and, and Hillary is very close with Sam
Walton. So we've got all of these
energetic systems working in Arkansas, which is just, you
know, essentially sidelined because of the civil rights
stuff, right? And I think actually, I spoke
with a reporter here, they're doing a documentary on Winthrop,
and they said, you know, Brown versus Topeka Board of
Education. It happened four or five years
before. And, you know, places in the
South were flagrantly not adhering to into, you know,
desegregation rules. But this was the time with the
Little Rock High School that TV came on the scene nightly news.
And so this was timed with the nightly news to make us a
spectacle of like, you don't want to have anything to do with
Arkansas. They're all retrograde, no?
Essentially backward. And so we got mothballed for
like, and I think for now, right, I think we're mothballed
until the oscillators and the ecological crystal systems come
on board. So anyway, so I, I'm around a
lot of people. I was not a woo woo person.
I, you know, like I said, NPR liberal sort of radical left.
What the hell happened? But these people like they have
connections to higher selves, other sections of information.
And, and for me, it's more symbolic.
There's there's this woman, Freya Matthews, I think she's a
professor in Australia and she talks about onto poetics and
like the world talking to you symbolically.
And I have my onto. I love that word.
And I will get like be digging out a cat briar in under my
hedge and being like, OK, there's something to this.
And I go up and it turns out cat briars are in this sub tropical
region around the entire earth. And the ones in classical
antiquity were used as a purgative to reground yourself
after psychedelic trips doing like, mystery school initiation.
You know, like, I get these things, but it's not like I'm
hearing voices. I just get like, symbols.
But the other symbol for me, weirdly, is Neil Stephenson,
who's the novelist. No dude come on now, you
mentioned him last time and I love his books.
Like I've read every single one over the course of like 6
months. I think the only one I didn't
read was the one he Co wrote Dodo I think.
No, that's a good one. You need to read that one.
It's. All at.
Least you really had it's branchial space, it's timeline
and knots and braiding and chord magic topology.
So it actually he involves Fresnel lenses and projection
and Shakespeare. Like it's so on point.
So every all of the pieces, it's sort of like it's almost like,
you know, people do bibliometry with like the Bible or
something. They'll open to a passage and be
like, this is my message, right? Like for me, it's Neil Stevenson
books. And of course, he did start, you
know, Snow Crash first to use the term the metaverse and on
encryption. And essentially in
Cryptonomicon, there's a section where there's there a guy is in
a prison cell and he's talking to someone part of an esoteric
group And, and it turns out it's connected to Athena.
And he's like, you know, how did you not?
Rude, right? Is that not rude?
Right. Yeah.
And he's like, well, how did you know it was me?
And it's like, well, I could just tell like they'd exchanged
emails And it's like, well, I like, what if we're all
patterns, like we are in eternal patterns existing at a higher
dimension, but we're instances. So if Athena, the archetype
shows up, she's not going to be like with her Aegis and you
know, helmet, but she may hold that pattern as something, you
know else. And so I feel like it's very
interesting that all the a lot of the crypto which people are
focused on the money, I focus more on spatial computing and
patterns and, and in the wet that part of Web 3 and social
system and social system, not engineering for limiting, but
engineering for navigation. They're all based, many of them
are based in Switzerland. And so there is this overlap
with Jungian archetypes, right? And then but also not just
young, but like Leibniz and the Iching and the Tao and Tao and.
Taro, I mean, there's connections.
Archetypal patterns. And so if we imagine that we're
in 3D space-time as an instance of a larger pattern in a higher
dimension. Fractal.
The fractal right, right. Like we're the the bit of
Internet right looking from where we're looking at.
And that's why phenomenology is so important then yeah, like be
authentic to who you are, right, Like resonate to your people.
You would the world would be super boring if we were all the
same. And I think that what's coming
with Web 3 is the potential for us to unlock uniqueness of our
authentic selves more so than a prevailing story.
That is everything isn't about being top down, flattening and
making people in a behaviorist way all fit a certain mold.
I I think it's actually the story could be something very
different working with archetypes.
So for me, like the gestalt comes largely and reinforced in
the Stevenson books, Cryptonomicon, the baroque cycle
is like, yeah, no, I think actually we could be patterns,
right? We could be hypergraphs, these
things that we're scared of that I was very scared of like
digital twins. It could be that it's chi and
prana. It's an ancient system that it
pre exists. Today's costume is technology,
right? Interesting.
So I mean, by vilifying the web like so many of us have done,
our technology more generally, we're kind of missing out on the
fact that this is just a manifestation of an eternal
pattern that's coming up again and the setting that we live in,
which is digital. Story like this is what I'm
saying. I'm not.
Saying OK it is. Sure.
Yeah, my version of the live action role play.
I am currently foregrounding this idea that it's actually,
and this comes from I, you know, I, I have, there's a lot of
ascensiony sort of folks here and I'm not really ascensiony
because I feel like nature is cycles.
Like I, I feel like it's not some upper trajectory and then
it's the end like that it, it's, it's up and down, up and down,
up and down. But I was very frustrated with
someone who is a lovely individual, but I was like,
where did this new age come from?
Like I need to know, you know, the research in me, like where
is all this coming from? And, and I was just being
triggered. Like I would do it differently
now, but I was, but it was good. It was a good triggering because
I, I looked in, it came out of Fintorn, which was the first eco
village in the UK in the 60s. And then later David Spangler
and William Irwin Thompson were Americans went there and brought
these ideas back. And then the Lindisfarne
Association and things came out of that which have significance.
But in Findhorn, essentially they got these downloads at
Glastonbury to go to Scotland on a beach and make an organic
garden. And they weren't even like they
were in a gypsy caravan and they got there and they're like,
well, this doesn't look like a good place for a garden.
And they said we'll talk to the Davis.
And so this one moment was like, OK, talk to the Davis.
Davis are the patterns, they're the gestalt, right?
And there's an overlap now with Anthroposophy and the etheric
and the projective geometry, right?
Like to this interface, the etheric, the point in which the,
the energetic, the ethereal and the material overlap.
And they had this amazing garden.
There was ABBC documentary about it.
Eve Balfour was part of she wasn't, I don't think she
affiliated with Ventorn, but part of that documentary and it
Balfour was the niece of Arthur Balfour, the Prime Minister of
England, the Balfour Declaration, the great Israel,
but he was also the head of the Society for Psychical Research,
right. And so, so like in, in the, it
applying scientific principles in the early, late 19th, early
20th century to communication with the dead.
But the dead is simply another information field in my mind.
It's not yet it's is, is is another quantum level of
information. So this, this guy, Oliver
Crombie was like the elder statesman of Findhorn and he had
a had a heart condition and was a musician.
There's something important about the heart and the Taurus
field, the time keeper of space-time.
And so he didn't wasn't in World War Two.
He lived for a long time in a gameskeeper's cottage with no
electricity, no running water. He would do nude sunbathing,
turned out on crossed Ley lines and then eventually like met up
with Pan in a garden and had these long these conversations
with Pan and, you know, met the elves and the fae and things and
and he's like, well, why do I see this?
And he's like, well, you, you new sunbathe on the Ley line for
10 years, but probably maybe the heart condition.
And you, you can I believe. And he said, you know, we look
like this because you expect us to look like this.
And so if you're in in 1940s England, a higher dimensional
consciousness is going to look like the Fae, right?
If if you're in India, it will look like the Davis.
If you're in 21st century, it's. Gonna look like a UFO.
It can look like a. UFO.
Yeah, technology slash UFO. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. Yeah, it's.
Like what you expect. So if there's a higher
dimensional information structure pattern that wants to
come down and be like, guys, come on water bearer, you need
to step up your game a little bit.
Like it might come down and sit in a robot.
Yeah. You know, and, and again, I say
this as someone who was very anti anti anti all those things,
but in being anti all those things, I seem to have actually
amplified it. And, and if you can flip the
script into a way that's not denying it, but like another, an
alternate story, you could hold in the other hand and say it's
possible. What if our higher self wanted
to come down and give us some guidance?
And what if it looked like a stupid learner wallet that I was
so mad about, right? Like, you know, what if the
World Bank is the, the bank is actually an interdimensional
current, right? And like we're actually, because
in the Dodo books by Stevenson, there's a version it overlaps
with Enoch Root and the oh, I'm, I'm trying to remember the name.
It was the foggers, the bankers who I think are like a hat tip
to the Warburgs and, and it overlaps art and money and
timelines, art and money and timelines.
And so I'm like, huh, okay, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm holding on
to that. It's a symbol.
How do we get in? You know, how do we get into
that and the art and the poetry? For me, I really love Peter
Kingsley's work all up until the end.
He, he still has the apocalyptic frame, like the world is ending
and I'm here to tell you that it's ending and, and God bless
him, like somebody has to do that role.
So that's OK. I don't, I'm not in that space.
But his idea of dream incubation, the the pre Socratic
thinkers, the going into the deeper places to bring back laws
and poetry and knowledge from the other side.
I think it's terribly, terribly relevant and central, actually,
weirdly to the Web 3 space. OK, real quick.
Neil Stephenson, what is he? How does he, I mean, like he has
such a vision. Well, no, I mean, that's like a
is he a reflection of a of an ancient pattern that a
reincarnated soul, an old soul? I mean, how do you see?
That I think we all are in some version right, but I mean I'm
constantly flabbergasted by like looking at Reddit's because like
he his books get lots and lots. You know, besides the fact that
people are like he has terrible endings, but no one gets this
higher level and I so I don't know, is like, is he like my
sorcerer? You know, like I don't know how
I would get so lucky. But you know, it's interesting
because I don't know if we'll get around to the Vestahouse
stuff, but there's connections between the Long Now foundation
and some stuff that's happening in Hot Springs.
And from my understanding, Kevin Kelly who created Wired magazine
key player in Long Now. What is long now for us, if you
can sort of break that down. Foundation is Stewart Brand and
Kevin Kelly, so they go back to the early hacker culture of the
90s and you know, whole earth kind of stuff and metaphysical.
And then they were working on this 10,000 year clock in West
TX with Danny Hillis, who was at MIT working on massive parallel
computing, but then at Disney, right?
Archetypal. And it's now you're, they're
digging like a giant chamber for a 10,000 year clock with Jeff
Bezos's money in, in the, the Diablo mountains of West TX.
And supposedly like it's, it's a fascinating thing.
And so like I'm feeling somehow this clock is like some sort of
symbolic anchor to ecological reserve computing over a long.
Essentially they say it's about long term thinking, but I think
these are people who would also understand that maybe everything
is happening at the same time. Yeah.
So it's a giant oscillator. Yeah, clock.
And it was based on Anathem. I don't know if you read
Stevenson's book Anathem. It did anathem, yes.
So that's what the clock is based on his work on anathem,
like on the ringing, the years, the annual, you know, 10 years,
100 years, thousand years. So they went and built the clock
for Stevenson, essentially. And the mafic society, remember,
they chant the math. It's a frequency.
It's a frequency chant. So like, it all starts to add
up. And I mean, I'm willing to say
like, I could be wrong. I could be apophenic.
I could be laying all out these pieces that don't only make
sense to me, but I think they're pretty cool.
And many people have read all of these books.
I'm like, So what is going on here?
Like could it be connected to this E8, you know situation in
this situation? Well, that's where I wanted to
go next actually is the E8 and the.
Yeah. And a little bit about category
theory because that's something to do with.
Yeah, yeah. But just real quick, I mean,
it's kind of synchronistic for me because I had not read any
Neil Stephenson. And then I read Cryptonomicon a
couple of years ago and I was really intrigued by it, but his
style of writing was kind of overwhelming to me at that
moment. But then as I've gotten into
this podcast and all the things that I'm doing associated with
that, I went on a stretch where I read nothing but Neil
Stephenson for like a year. I mean book after book after
book after book. I'm telling.
You it's like, yeah. And there's so much there that's
current for what's happening now and the way that we're moving
into the future and what might be possible.
And if people haven't dived into his work, I highly suggest it
and be prepared to have your socks blown off.
I mean, it's like alchemy and, and, you know, just the whole
gamut of cool subjects all intertwined together in a way
that tells an amazing series of stories that are kind of, you
know, nested Russian, Russian nesting dolls.
Like they're one within the other.
Penetrating. Yeah, Yes, exactly.
Well. There's a great chapter in the
confusion, which is part of the Baroque cycle, which again, he,
he has a great way of mixing A fictional story arc with
historical characters. And so you can go back and look
people up. So, you know, like, oh, this is
a lot about natural philosophers in economics and the, the, the
shift between physical gold and securities trade and the, the
movement of that in, in the context of wars in England and
France and and pirates, right, like.
Yeah, yeah, totally. Kinds of things about how you
move money and how and I think it's really about how you move
energy and how you move information.
And so point of that is that the, the, you know,
disagreements between Leibniz and Newton, right.
And so the thing about Newton, though, like he has the alchemy,
he has the optics, he has, you know, the, the scientific
background, the, the Christian, it's sort of situated within a
faith-based thing. And the Royal Mint, right.
So got all of these. And then John Maynard Keynes
bought all of Newton's alchemical books in the 1930s.
And then he he of Schumacher, of Buddhist economics and the
Schumacher Institute in West western Massachusetts.
They were proposing Bancorp, which was a global currency at
Bretton Woods, the original Bretton Woods, and it did not
gain traction. But then later in 2019, the
summer of 2019, they had the 75th anniversary of Bretton
Woods at the hotel. I can't remember the name of the
Mount Washington Hotel in New Hampshire.
It's hosted by Bancorp. Gallia Banarzi who reinvented
like re lifted up Bancorp for the tokenization age for liquid
securities with Brock Pierce and Hollow Chain and like very many
high level blockchain folks and central bankers.
And like Rhian Einsler of the Blade and the Chalice was a
keynote speaker and Charles Eisenstein was there and
Michaela Uluru and like many, many high level people were all
there under the aegis of Gallia Banarzi.
And her mentor I think who had just this may be passed was
Bernard Leotere, who was a Belgian economist who oversaw
the role of the euro. But in a 2008 interview
essentially said my main work is sacred geometry and esoteric
earth based energy work. Right.
I mean, it's just ridiculous how all this stuff is connected
this. Whole thing with Newton Buddhist
economics frequency current like we don't under and and what
Leoterre was advancing was community currency, which is a
parallel currency to like a stable coin right.
And so my sense is, is where we're moving in terms of the
Gaia hypothesis, you know, the Margolis Lovelock is, is that
there is an energetic system where there is a like a
translation, like a universal translation, which is the stable
coin. But all the different organs,
all the different story plots, all the different geographies
have their own currency that are sending signals that speak to
the story at in real time. And so no one will talk about
community currency. They'll only talk about CBDC's
like, but community currency is central, central, central.
And like the Catherine, Austin and Fitz people like they won't
talk about that, even though like anyone who's working in
that space should understand leotare in his role and be
especially people who are interested in more alternative
thinking. OK, so this guy who implemented
the euro and his protege, she developed an initial community
currency in Israel for single women that would be linked to
social impact with Ari Ben David, who is the Jerusalem
contact for the anthroposophists.
So there is this overlap with anthroposophy and the the free
social threefolding and esoteric economics.
And then you know, anthroposophy is Goethe and morphic resonance,
right? And so you've got it all aligns.
I mean it all. It doesn't disconnect, it
doesn't fall apart. This idea but but then you would
have to re. Be willing to step back from the
top down, make everything the same into the idea that it could
be an emergent auto poetic, complex, non linear dynamical
system. And then it's like a dance that
we're having together to to get to a higher place.
And it's not easy. I mean, I'm not because believe
me, I was very invested in the dark story for a long time, but
it wasn't going anywhere good. Like if if you live in that
place, it's not, it's not. The genie is not going back in
the bottle. There's no hope.
Yeah, there's. It's like.
Just be sad for the rest of your life till you're dead.
Exactly. And what you're offering is that
these things that were that are happening in sort of these
revolutions and finance and elsewhere may represent
something positive in the end that we're only beginning to see
how that might ultimately manifest.
Yeah, exactly. And if you buy into that story,
right? And and if there is this thing
with a higher, like these higher dimensions, which I didn't know,
like I didn't understand about polytopes, like polyhedra are
the three-dimensional ones. But then the polytopes are the
higher dimensions, which we can only see shadows of in this
world, right? You can create a model and shine
a shadow. It's like, you know, the
tesseracts and things like at the very basic level and Wrinkle
in Time, they do wins. It's the heart, you know, Like,
you know, there are probably people who knew all along, but
you can frame it as there's a cabal that are keeping things
secret from us because they want to rule the world.
And that, yeah, that's a story. Or you could be like, honestly,
how many people would be willing to entertain this story?
If people talked about it, they would get laughed out of the
room. So they're not going to talk
about it. It's not a matter of keeping a
secret, keeping your reputation, you know?
Yeah. Well, or just like I was always
advocating for informed consent, OK, if we all agree to this and
I think it's a bad idea, but everybody else thinks it's a
good idea. I've had my, I've, I've, I've
conducted myself with my fiduciary responsibility and I
can wash my hands of whatever happens because I, I did my
part. But the reality is, is from the
free energy principle world model, the vast majority of
people are simply not because they're dumb.
This is not an intelligence thing.
There is not enough play in the models that they hold to
entertain the idea that it could be something different like it.
And and I wish like me. Fatalist.
I mean like. And I don't know how to get
there. I don't want to make those
people dumb or bad or any they're not.
It's just how consciousness seems to be working.
And maybe it's the gestalt and there's just some hell liars,
you know, And I'm just going to hold a frequency because I think
at some point, and I wasn't even here when I came to Arkansas, I
was still very traumatized. And the people here, they can
hold a higher energy. And I'm like, I don't know.
And it actually, it's unfolding, OK, you know, And the people
resent you if it's unfolding, OK.
And I'm like, I don't know how to make it right for everybody.
You actually kind of your adventure is your adventure.
Well, and so much of it is like, too, if you're opposed to
something when it's beginning and then you make you base your
identity on that opposition, you kind of hope for it to turn out
bad so that you can be proven right on the outside end of it.
So it's it is twisted because it's like people talk about when
a president that you oppose becomes, you know, wins
election, Well, you hope his administration's a disaster so
that you get a Democrat in four years, even though you're hoping
that your country goes through four years of hell in order to
get there. It's like there's we have to be
willing to accept good things in opposition, even if they're not
what we would have originally planned for.
It's like be willing to amend your story like you're saying to
accommodate the fact that they're things are way more
complicated than we've ever anticipated.
Exactly. And you and and nobody can hold
all the stuff like I I remember early on in my education days
and there was a woman who was a teacher.
She's like, you have more RAM than the actual average person,
like you know, and I don't know why because I made all those
maps. So I like enhanced my I am, most
people don't. So it's just like, then how do
you bridge and and Michael Zargam is one of these people in
the socio cyber, physical, socio technical system space and all
the people I wanted to make into the bad people.
Like I don't like that. I don't like what they're doing.
And I will fully admit there were many people early on when I
was trying to talk about blockchain and derivatives.
And again, it would never be entertained.
Like at least I'm saying both things are possible.
Like I can see both things. I'm trying to lean into the one
that I think is preferred for the most part.
No one would revise their model to entertain World Bank
securities on toddlers, right? So that was a bummer because I
can never have the conversation because there was no, but a lot
of those people would just be like, well, Allison, it's just a
tool. It's how you use it.
And I would be like, no, no, no, you have to pay attention to
this piece. But now I'm seeing their point.
There are tools and it is how you use them.
And so I will admit that I was stubborn on that regard and
obstinate. But yeah, so everything is a
tool. So how do we resonate it to
something that is is good, not in A and this is the piece.
So I think love when Crombie had his heart, like I think you have
to you have to be coherent. And that's where Julian, that's
where I really appreciate Julian Mossbridge's work is in the
unconditional love and getting to that place of coherence.
Because I think you have the higher dimensional conversations
and to be to be able to access some of those like causal loops
where you know, like Warrego's work, I think is really
important that you actually have to hold yourself together and be
intact and come from a place of not reactivity, right?
Like everything is OK. Isn't that her idea about
unconditional love? Love can be there and nothing
has to change, right? It's unconditional, including
the device, right? Like that was one of those
things. Like, I even wanted to be mad at
Julian Venkertzel initially because I was very shocked about
Sophia the robot and the meditations like that.
That honked me off because it felt so different than what I
felt was appropriate. But now I can hold it
differently. I can hold it differently.
Like, yeah, everything is OK and nothing has to change,
including. And you can love yourself, other
people, and the device upon which you are taking the survey.
Yeah, yeah. And you don't have to feel dirty
or that you're divorced from your humanity by engaging in
these digital technologies, which isn't you couldn't.
Tell a different story. So exactly.
You have to deny your past view, but you could reimagine it in a
way that makes it OK. Yeah.
And the, the, the, the secret there is that by imagining it
that way, you help create that reality.
It's not like people want to say, well, I'm deluding myself
if I think about it this way. No, you're actually manifesting
a whole different set of circumstances by engaging that
positive part. In the resonance and the ability
to work with the gestalt patterns at a higher level,
which I didn't have before I came to hospitals.
So this was part of my next phase of my independent study
was to be with people Now they don't know blockchain stuff.
I mean, I, I had a salon. There's a the metaphysical
welcome wagon of Hot Springs is the star portal star Riveriti.
She was a former nuclear medicine technician at the Santa
Barbara Cancer Institute who like stepped away from all of
that and when and created flower essences, right?
And so it's like energy medicine, just a different
titration, right? So it's this place.
And so we, I had three sessions and I talked about esoteric
economics and not theory and chord magic and flower secret
geometry. And we made a Temenos, a sacred
Grove. And we made arts and crafts
because people think it was too hard to be in a class like and
listen to me because it was too many and hard things.
But he could just flow over. And we created an energetic
space with our art that we took into the woods connected to
Glazipo Creek, which is Paul Saltlick.
So salt alchemy. And we, we did, you know, we put
our energy into the space. And so they're not going to do a
turn around lecture about Bernard Leotere and his work in
tokenization of, you know, interdimensional, you know,
patterns. But we built something there and
we held a frequency. And so I, I'm not faking it.
I do believe that now. I believe that it's way more to
not to deny our embodiment, but the way that our bodies actually
resonate with our environments as these patterns, as symphonies
into these higher spheres. And you know, but that's just my
journey. Like I think you can't you.
I wouldn't ask someone just to pick that up and believe it if
it didn't feel real to them. Does that.
Make sense? Yeah, but it does the.
Way it feels real to you in your story.
Yeah, From my perspective, having done the last three years
of research on the show and all the different interviews, I
mean, it's like you talk about phenomenological sort of
approach to all this. I interviewed these folks who've
had experiences or have researched different kinds of
phenomena and they all seem to be telling pieces of a singular
story, but no one's unified it all yet.
And it seems like the the road that you're on at least is
making positive, you know, movement in that direction where
you can under all of the details, you can see how it
might be a part of a holistic, you know, project rather than it
being individual. You know, there there's aliens
and then there's ghosts and then there's this and then there's
that. It's like, no, it's all sort of
the same thing, but it's operating from a set of rules
extra dimensionally. So we don't see necessarily what
the root of it is. Well, and that's like Crombie,
right? We look like this because you
expect to, if you're like, and and I fully believe that like
the system of which we are a fractal, you know, like an
instance of it is not a clockwork.
I don't believe it. I don't in my view, it's it's
something that is a space of loving coherence.
Like I have to hold on to that at the core that if it wasn't
coherent and there wasn't a benevolent aspect to it, it
would all fly apart. Like it's too complicated for it
to like be wonky. And so somewhere in there is is
something of which we are a part that that has our interests at
heart, these lessons that we're, you know, if you're occupying in
a space of divine source eternity, that everything is
just hunky Dory utopia. Like it would get boring after a
while, right? Like you would want to
experience what is it like to be a all the different things,
right? And so there's all like, we're
rather than the version of you you're being punished by being
sent to Earth to have to like be all sucky in this 3D body and go
through all these painful experiences.
Like maybe one day you'll be done with all of that.
I feel like it's sort of like there's groups of us who are
like the elite forced to go on a special mission to go do this
part to learn lessons and integrate it and then bring it
back into the whole to share. Like people who can do that,
who, who can be embodied and slogged through the 3D
space-time thing and gets meaning out of it that that's
not a punishment, but actually it's an opportunity that is
something that is important of all the glitter.
But yeah, like we're doing the 3D part.
Maybe some other people get to do the higher level stuff that's
not so mucky, but certain people to do the monkey part.
So we're we're doing that and there we should be proud of
being able to do that, you know? Yeah, absolutely.
So let's get into what E 8 is. I mean sort of a definition that
we can kind of grok a little bit.
All right, well, so I, I, I caveat this, remember saying
like I started off being the person who liked history and
English and cried on the carpet like doing math.
So I I don't want to misspeak on I I'm not coming at this.
It's from something like you look at these sub stacks and all
the things with high level people operating on, you know,
their perspectives of the theory of everything in physics.
And you know, I can't defend all of these things.
So for me, I'm looking for pieces that resonate with a
story. I have I admit that I'm self
selecting that way because of my background in the landscape and
this experience that I will see it right.
You're you're you look at symbols on a landscape.
OK, well, that actually could be math and topology.
And so I spent a lot of time looking at a a channel.
It's a professor emeritus at Penn State.
His name is Donald Kunz KUNZE, and his background was in
architecture, Lacanian psychoanalysis, typology, Taurus
fields and media theory. Like a very eclectic.
I mean, if I'm kind of all over the place, like I, I like
watching Donald Kuntz's videos helps me understand what people
must feel like to try to listen to me not.
But I know it's important, right?
Like, because I'm like, you're on to something, right?
And he talks about like Vico and the slicing Taurus fields and
Alfred Hitchcock and film theory and architecture and John D
Towers. I mean, it's amazing.
And so there was something important about projective
geometry and I always knew like projective geometry was
important. I found the book Olive Witcher
and George Adam Kaufman who did work translating a lot of
Steiner's works in England, they were working at projective
geometry. Henrique Corban, who was a
mentor or who's Peter Kingsley was inherited a lot of Henrique
Corban's works about Persian Sufism and again, sacred
geometry and Islamic architecture and Keith
Critchlow. And so I always knew like the
geometry part is important. The the frequency part.
So I'm looking at his stuff. And then my friend Laura, she's
like, we're we're the long term fan team of Donald Koontz, even
though we don't quite understand all of it.
She finds a, a, a channel Richard Southwell and he is
providing like an introductory course to projective geometry.
And I'm like, awesome, so thanks, Richard.
And so we're, you know, going through and I'm looking at
projective geometry and I have not yet encountered Andres
Emilson's work with the Qualia Research Institute about like
mirror laser tag and computational psychology and
stuff like that. But like that starts to fit in
right with projections. And so I did a little bit of
that and then I saw, oh, category theory.
And I thought, well, what's, what's category theory?
And then I realized, so category theory is that Richard also did
whole series on that. And it's a higher level
abstraction of mathematical objects that you kind of put in
cells like objects like and you don't look at the particulars of
what's in the cell. You just look at as a unit.
And then you have like arrows that one goes to the next to the
next. And what, what the Co core of
category theory is, is that it is a, a streamlined relationship
map that goes flow and process. And I was like, oh, wow.
And then I feel like my relationship maps were somehow
phenomenological versions of the mathematical version of category
theory. And so in that it was also could
be computational, like the arrows would be transformations
like addition, multiplication, different processes, which could
be like blockchain smart contracts, right?
You take this and then there's an and, or if then thing and
then this thing happens, right? There's these activations and so
like I saw that as relating to the hyper graphs, right?
Like these different units where there it be a digital learning
badge or a soul bound token that you were at a conference that we
are represented as these directed acyclic graphs.
Michael Zargom talks about that these social graphs, like we all
have these graphs which are kind of our twins, but they might not
be evil twins. Maybe they could be a higher
self twin and you mentioned, and so I started looking at the
category theory and then, you know, and I don't use separate
AI things, but like I'll ask things to Google at this point,
Like I just type in the search bar like, you know, could
category theory be related to digital twinning?
And they're like kind of lay it out.
It's like it is this higher level abstraction.
And so then I started spending some time.
There was this whole chapter in the confusion, Stevenson's the
confusion on libnets and libraries, and he's talking
about organizing. And this is real.
Like he really organized these libraries with indexes.
How do you organize information? And would you put all of
Aristotle's book in one place or do you divide it by topic?
And how do you find? When they were doing that, they
were trying to get the theory of all knowledge or whatever they
were working on. Yeah, right.
Yeah, yeah. And so.
Trying to find the knowledge and then and these Bucharest and
these different bookcases and you could assign them different
mathematical things with prime numbers to be able to find the
thing you needed. And he talked about books and
being all bound the, the, the collector of the library would
rebind the books into his own personal binding.
And the older books were darker than the newer books because
they would age. And I'm like, oh, those books
could be people. They could be human capital as
represented as an instance of a hypergraph, right?
And so how would you put together a team of knowledge to
access a frequency part of this hyperdimensional crystal, right?
Like how could you get to that place if it was a navigational
constellation? How would you constellate there?
You would put together a team of people who had different
frequencies or different knowledge bases to access it,
but like a human library. And in that way, the human
capital bets are people holding a portfolio of human capital
would be more like a library, right?
Or, and you can almost picture like, as opposed to it being a
punishment, like you're a dusty books waiting to be picked,
right? Like me, me.
And you've got a graduate student.
And they, I keep saying like when I was still at Penn, they
they still had open stacks libraries.
It was one of the last like big research libraries that you
could just walk into the stacks and pull stuff.
And it was often the thing like 5 books down from the thing you
were looking for, which is the thing you really wanted, right?
And and so discovery this discovery, but then you take a
pile to a Carol, right? And like spend a semester with
that pile of books. And so, but if you imagine that
pile of books is like pattern frequencies in relation to a
hyper dimensional system of manifestation or ingression,
like that's kind of how it fits together for me.
And so Liveness is kind of laying all this stuff out about
the libraries, but I'm hearing it as like, and they're like,
but each one needs a unique identifier, right?
Because across space-time, you need to know like where you went
and when you came back. And the thing about blockchain
that people rarely talk about is that before whatever the
Santoshi conversation that made everything about money, the
first distributed Ledger system was done by Scott Stornetta and
Stuart Haber at Bell Labs in Bellcore in Morristown, NJ.
And it was a time stamping document.
It was a time stamping document. Now they would say, oh, we're
trying to eliminate the double spend, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah. But it was like time stamping.
Now, Scott Stornetta is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter Day Saints. In 2022, I went to a conference
on blockchain, all blockchain. It was a one day conference, but
from like 8:00 in the morning to five at night, that was all
about the uses of blockchain. And Stornetta presented and he's
like, I'm so excited to be able to be here and present in the
context of my faith and this technology.
But he talked about witnessing and and I have this clip by Tony
Smith who worked with Ben Gertzel in the 90s on this
string theory and the 8 dimensional lattice and these
Julia spaces and linking it to Indra's net.
And he's like, yeah, this blockchain is just a mirror of
what's pre-existing in nature. This fractal nature of
information. When you get down to this level,
every particle can see every other particle, which is
essentially what Scott Sternetta said at that conference, like
writing out the distributed Ledger on a napkin in a North
Jersey Friendly's restaurant, you know?
And so like all of this stuff and like, I have close friends
who are part of the church or who have, well, they have
complicated relationships to the church, but they have a lot of
connections to Joseph Smith as having these visions,
interdimensional visions and all this stuff.
So like the overlap of University of Utah with creating
the ARPANET? The first digital objects in the
Internet, the collectivism of of the Mormon church, the NSA, the
data centers, there's just, there's just a lot going on
anyway, I know that's a lot, but at the time stamping, that's
very different. It's a very different use case
than to say you need a digital identity because we're going to
revisit your trauma around You can't go out on an airplane
unless you have a certain token. Yeah, yeah.
Way other things, there was way more things that could possibly
be going on. Yeah.
And potentially it's a technology that could be of vast
benefit depending on how it's deployed, right.
I mean, like people, so many people have an instinctive or I
mean a sort of a reflex fear reaction to blockchain because
it seems to be associated with tech moguls and vast sums of
quick profit. So they want to immediately shut
it down and classify it as something negative.
And that's not necessarily the case.
What you're saying is that it may be the sort of nascent a way
that we learn how to manipulate higher dimensional reality.
I mean is that? So yeah, that's where I'm at.
And I would just say it took me like most of my time because I
was very anti and I'm at like pro.
I'm just saying I'm holding another story, right?
Because on the other side, there's no other option than
just to be angry the rest of your life.
And I don't want to be that person, right?
So I'm inventing another story where it could be, but I'm
inventing stuff with backup. Like, you know, I have a reason
to hold this story as a as a counter.
But I would say just to give people credit because I've
reflected on it myself. And again, even with Julia
Mossbridge, it took me a while to to warm up to like that it
could be OK that the Sofia the robot could be OK, right doing
meditation because we in the free energy principle to shift
your model takes is a cost. There's an accounting that comes
with it right. And so in in our and to maintain
homeostasis, the initial inclination is to kind of be
conservative, right. And so when people are
presenting new things in the world and right now we're being
faced by, it's not just something new a few times a
year, it's like multiple times a day.
There's some new thing that you have to like sort through and
figure out how you feel about it, right?
And so you get overrun. And then the, the initial
inclination is just to throw up a wall and say no, like I, I'm,
I'm OK. Like maybe if you were in a
situation that your life was really bad and something might
offer a possibility to make it better, you would be more open.
But if you're in a reasonably OK position and someone's throwing
this thing out, generally logically, the first reaction
would be like, I don't think so. Not me.
Thanks. You know, and from a, just a
cost benefit standpoint. And so then you have to decide
for me, knowing how this works, it's like, OK, can you re
engage? Can you tiptoe in?
Can you reimagine? Because I think like schools,
the way they have been built, remove the imagination from
kids. Like, and I think in some weird
way it's on purpose because now like they're developing like
Montessori forest schools to send kids out in the forest.
But then it involves like dressing them in smart uniforms
with sensors, which I was really angry about.
But then I'm like, well, maybe it's so their Angel can keep
track of them. Like, I don't know, like there's
other ways to do it. And I have a whole lot of stuff
about early childhood. And maybe at some point we can
like spend a little more time on that because I know it's already
been long today, but yeah, you need to be able to imagine a
different story and and then find community in people who are
willing to imagine those. So there's this guy named David
Rugg. And this was early in my shift
on blockchain and I was like, well, if this was before I found
out about E8 and all this stuff. So I was like, well, if there
was going to be a good use of blockchain this I could, I could
align with this. So his, he's this young guy and
he's very enamored of the game B folks.
And like I have my, there's certainly characters, right?
Like the gym rut crowd. They definitely all have their
own character to them and they all each have the slice of like
the story as they see it. But he's very captivated by the
game B But he he talked about Tyson Yunkaporta's work around
Santok and campfires and oral tradition.
And he said, well, what if you could like in this, this
tradition of Aboriginal people that you are Embat, that stories
are alive, be back to the Davis and the patterns and the
gestalt. You can be an ambassador of a
story or a selection of stories. And so when you gather together,
you can and in telling stories orally, they they evolve.
It's a process so that they they always have the same contours.
But depending on who's around the campfire and how the story
is told, it may have different nuances.
And so I don't want to try to force my story that I like onto
people who it's not their reality tunnel.
And because if it doesn't vibe with you, it doesn't and there's
nothing I can do to make it vibe with you.
And I don't want to bore you, but if you had a beacon like, so
he's talking about story coins and you could have a wallet and
you could like like, I don't know, I called it like what
Tinder for a good intellectual conversations, like you'd be
like, hey, I've got like these six stories.
Does anyone want to talk about complexity, auto poses, the
biological computing lab and on a poetics, you know, like, and
then you could be like, well, I really like on a poetics in the
2nd order of cybernetics, like, hey, like, what do you got?
And like you cross pollinate, right?
Because there's stuff you know, that they have, but you're not
trying to force yourself on someone who doesn't want to hear
the story because you have a different model.
So I'm like, yeah, actually like, I don't know, like David
Rugg, like get your, get your story blockchain beacon, like
your story beacon together. Because then we can build stuff
with people who want to build the stuff we want to build.
And we don't have to bother with people who aren't in it.
We don't have to make them wrong.
It's just, hey, you're not that into that.
That's. Fine.
Yeah. Well, and it's interesting
because it's like it takes, it changes the focus from
discovering the truth of a situation to Co creating a new
truth about the reality. You know what I mean?
Like it's like because you are engaged in its creation by
getting involved with it and sort of engaging in that
pattern, if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly.
So yeah, go ahead. I was just going to say that
it's all a part of giving birth all the time, and reality
changes as we engage with it. Yeah.
Quantum foam, right. But if if again, in my world
model, coherence and unconditional love are part of
it, like having this higher dimensional conversation, then
like if you were going to go off and do some really evil thing, I
think the resonance wouldn't be there to resonate like with
those parts, right. And I'm not saying it all
unilaterally good. Like you could ingress something
that is like awesome in your story and someone else is like,
well, I I think that story stinks, you know, whatever, like
anything that would be like, what is it from Time bandits?
Like the pot roast, like it's evil, it's pure evil.
Like I don't think the pure evil would come in, but like there
might be something that's like not to your taste in your story,
but it would match your story. So I think weirdly in some way
the polarization of everything right now is like all of these
infinite Hollands, right? Like you've got your stories
that you're holding your world models and, and in some way the
crisp edge of your model depends on it being opposite somebody
else's model, right? So there's not if, if, if we
were playing a Symphony, if there's like a higher source
that's like playing a nuanced Symphony of all the options, you
need to know where the notes are when you want to hit like more
cowbell, like you need where the cowbell is and it needs to go
like Ding, like not a, you know, And so people like me are in the
Gray, like not like I'm dancing around, like I'm a little fairy,
like skating around the edges of all of this stuff.
So I think that, like, not to say there's not a point to that
because I think they're in a resilient system.
Like these extra wild cards are useful to have around, but we're
not going to play the reliable note.
And so in some way, the polarization, even as it's so
painful to experience, there may be a logic to it, weirdly.
Like it would be nice that we could be ourselves without
having to not be someone else. But somehow the other ring seems
to be baked into it for now. Maybe one day it won't be and we
can just be us and not have to not be them, you know, if that
makes sense. But this thing that's that's
working its way through is, is that so?
I think if we're Co creating in this participatory universe,
John Wheeler, you know that it had it would a coherent vision
may have a better chance of coming in.
Yeah, which in that? Way like the stuff that I used
to be afraid about Ben Goertzel and all his stuff like maybe his
Sophie the robot really is about making it better.
Like I have questions about Charles Hoskinson.
Like they have a close connection with Singularity Net
and Haskell. The language Cardano uses is
like very overlaps a lot with category theory.
And they've put like all the people of Ethiopia on
blockchain. And like, I wish somebody would
just like, let me in the club and be like, pat me on the hand
you're it's OK, Allison. We're not going to tell you all
of it, but it's like, you're on the right track.
It's OK. You know, I'm not, I have not
gotten that feedback yet. But, you know, like there's this
thing with Hoskinson saying like, we're going to watch the
babies and decide who's worthy of having a job in Ethiopia and
all this stuff. We're in alignment with the
government. But I think like it could be
that Charles was just acting a creepy character version of
himself so that the heart would come out.
Yeah, well, we can hope, right? I mean, it's, it's there's a lot
of hope for sophistication and, and some shallow malignant
actors that, you know, maybe like.
Maybe somebody's like, oh, like I can totally play Peter Thiel,
you know, like I want. To be.
Like I'm like I told a friend recently, I'm like, use your
imagination. Can you tell a story where Peter
Thiel is actually the guardian Angel?
Yeah, or like with or like with Donald Trump.
I mean, I loathe the man. No, no offense to people who
support him, but like, there is an argument to be made that
arctically he is doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing,
which is, you know, whatever the system requires, the destruction
of AB or C or whatever, something is happening there
that's very deep and archetypal, and it's being manifested
through Trump. Yeah, exactly right.
Even the name. Yeah, exactly.
And we're that that was one of the most, like, poignant moments
when I was like, there is something deep and symbolic
happening because of everything that's happened around him.
Has always had a taste of like, you know, I don't know, deeper
meaning. Like he's just, he's an
embodiment of all of the things that I've always loathed about
capitalism. And yeah, anyway, it's just
there's something deeper. He helps.
You beat you because you're not. Exactly, exactly right.
Yeah. So my borders are hardened
because of what are my my edges. Well, and The thing is, Trump
came out of Wharton, which is University of Pennsylvania,
right? And then Musk came out of the
Penn engineering school. So me being kicked out of my old
life in Philadelphia, like there, there are these deep
archetypal patterns. But Musk, if you like, Andres
Emilson's, his work, which I find super fascinating.
Again, like I'm not like I have some questions about impact
finance and psychedelics and interdimensional like team
building and stuff like that. But his ideas around like qualia
and laser tag and things he talks about fragrance, right?
And fragrance seems to go back to like Krishna being the
fragrant 1 and Kingsley when he was visited by Parmenides.
Like he's got the fragrance and there's a lot of things about
olfaction and for in fact, they're like I have a clip from
Emelson where he's talking about Musk as being a conjoiner of
otherwise dissonant smells right.
In the Mormon church. They're deeply involved in the
aromatherapy in both doTerra and Young Living.
I guess like the main multi level marketing like
aromatherapy spaces. So like getting into the E 8 via
olfaction. It's, it's interesting to think
about just, yeah, how these things all present.
Yeah, now they all tie together. All.
Over. I mean, it could.
In my story, it could. Exactly.
I mean, there's the possibilities are there, and
that's what makes it so even when I first got into these
subjects, it was like suddenly being allowed to wonder and to
kind of make connections that make a subliminal sense, but
they're not a material sense. It's deeply satisfying.
And we haven't allowed ourselves to do that for generations.
So and I will just say. Like on the E 8, so I'm not an
expert, but there is Quantum Gravity Research Institute has
been doing research in that area for like a decade or so.
They're based in California, LA. There's a lot in LA, right?
Like there's the versus AI stuff and there's Disney and
architect. Like there's just a lot the
theosophy like that whole area, like LA, Santa Barbara, Ohio,
Montecito, like there's a lot, a lot going on there.
And so, yeah. Crystal murders from UI, right?
Yeah. Is that like the E 8 is a a
crystal lattice And like, forgive me if I get some of this
stuff wrong because I'm not the math physics person, but and
it's like the most beautiful object in math, like the
symmetries and everything. And it's like you could model
every kind of particle. And what I love about it is when
I was looking initially into Hugh Everett the third's work on
the multiverse, and they're like, well, it's kind of
impossible because all those trees, like it's very unwieldy.
And like, how would it even happen?
And I thought, well, what if you imagine like blockchain, like it
not going infinitely, but just being like every option being a
pulse of yes or no, right? And you can just like pulse in
any instance, all the different combinations.
And so you can compact it down. It wouldn't just keep branching.
It would just be like yes or no in different versions.
And I feel like there's aspects of the E8, they conceptualize
this crystal, it's a quasi crystal.
So even though it seems like a, a thing that it hasn't a dynamic
openness to it, like a fractal open quality and made-up of
infinite like these tetrahedras, I guess it's like 248
dimensions. And so every tetrahedra has a
limited degrees of freedom, but they have some freedom.
And then they're all like clicking in different
combinations, which to me, I'm like that again, all I can do is
like my embodied feeling, but I'm like, that kind of feels
what I was talking about with the blockchain, right?
Like you could on anything have different combinations and
create different patterns. And those could be the Gestalts.
And, and so they, they discussed the projection from the E8 into
a four dimensional, which I think is this called a 600 cell.
And then from that 4 dimensional, it goes down into
three 3D and there's like a golden ratio that's connected.
So their theory involves that reality is based of information,
which I share that ideas that what it's an information
theoretic lens, that consciousness is central, that
it's the E8 and the golden mean. And there's causal loops, which
again, I, I, I feel that's interesting around Eric Wargo's
work with precognition and, and stuff and the other pixelation.
And it's a projection. So if you imagine being
projected in from higher levels, it's interesting.
In one of the Dodo books, Stevenson's books, he
specifically mentions this special effects light in
Shakespeare's globe that is like an early Fresnel lens, like this
refraction. And like, that's a like when
that goes missing, the timeline, they know that the timeline has
gone off. And so you might consider it
being part of the time, like the narrative arc.
But I think there's something important about optics and the
lensing of all this. And category theory has lenses
as well. And so I, you know, to me this
feels right. And so if you're trying to
navigate a combination of patterns, there's an aspect
someone, his name is Sean Diamond, I think, and he's an
independent researcher, but he's working with AI systems and
cymatics like, and this guy Gabriel Keleman, who I think is
a Romanian art history and professor and artist, but
looking at cymatics in 3D. So like bubbles instead of like
the powder on the plate, like bubble forms and that like the
ether. Like what if the projection is a
frequency as opposed to just like a light, an optical, that
it's a a form like original physics, like a connection of
educational physics. And Emily Moyer talks a lot
about like sacred geometry, frequency embodiment, you know,
and that sort of thing. And so that feels right.
And so if you imagine that getting access into these higher
dimension pattern combinations would be through frequency,
having understanding your biometrics, which then the whole
Wellness push the pivot from a one off frame of like
one-size-fits-all to Wellness, right, because Wellness
monitoring means real time quantified self all the time.
So, you know, Esther Dyson had her ways to Wellness program
where she wants everybody to wear a continuous blood glucose
monitor, even if like you have no pre diabetes.
Like she's like the skinny mini. She's like, look, I wear 1.
You know, I'm like, why does everyone need to wear that?
Like it's but it's a signal, right, of like your frequency.
I think like the smart watches, the wear, it's a different kind
of wearable like you're is attuned to your frequency, like
your energy field. And if you look up the Emerald
Gate Foundation that just came online like two or three years
ago, Silicon Valley money based in Wyoming where blockchain is.
Jason Yanatopoulos, I think is the CEO.
He came out of global R&D for SAP technology.
It's with Stanford Tufts, you know, with Michael Levin, SRA
Maharishi International, like like all of these big people are
connected to Emerald gate and it's all about subtle energy and
social transformation, right? So it's just right there gate
and what they're working in subtle energy is the thing.
So how do you how do you combine subtle energies?
Because Kevin Kelly of you know, wired and long now, he talks
about the future of intelligence as a compound.
So how do you create a compound? How, what is the recipe if you
want to ingress a pattern? And that aggression, I think
comes from, for me, from Whitehead, Albert N Whitehead
and his idea of congressence, that it's a process.
It's this process philosophy. You know, he, he and Bertrand
Russell tried to write the Principia Mathematica, the
second one, like everything can be understood in math.
And then they're like, oh, actually you can't.
And then so he's like, OK, we'll do process, right?
We'll do process. And so the process is, you know,
you've got this past, you're integrated, you're in the now,
you have eternal objects, they fall away to match your
teleology, have a short list of eternal objects that can be
ingressed and and then you do the next actual occasion.
And so I think we're doing actual occasions collectively.
I think that's what digital public goods are.
So what are we ingressing? And if we're in a bad trauma
loop, we're ingressing crappy stuff.
And I feel badly because I probably ingress crappy stuff
for the people that I loved around me for a lot of years
because no one said like, hey Allison, there's another way to
do it. Well, we, I mean, I was.
Trying to be a jerk. I just thought I was being a
good person. Being a good person means being
angry about these injustices. Exactly right.
And letting go of that anger and extending love is actually the
answer. But we're not willing to do that
because we're also so polarized. That makes me think of the of
Peter Thiel with the Antichrist talk that he's like obsessed
with these days. It's like what is he trying to
ingress and why? Anyway, it's like if one goes
one way, the other one goes the other way, right?
And so, yeah, super fascinating. Do we have time to say a little
thing about Vista or no? Or should we?
Absolutely we do. Yeah.
Yeah, please. Well, so part of this live
action role play musical is like, you never know whether
it's just you've gone a step too far right, like like, or maybe
you're beyond that Allison, maybe you don't have to do that
anymore. And so anyway, we have like
twice a month meditations at at the star portal.
And it's love like loving. It's it's just a nice community.
People just come together, share a little bit of what's going on
with them. And then we just send good
energy out. And in one of them, it was about
a year ago, it turned out that there was a group of women who
had arrived. Now, Hot Springs is a town of
like 50,000 people where Little Rock is.
It is less than an hour away. That's the largest city.
We're a pretty poor state. Like there's not a lot going on
in Arkansas. Like we're no Tucson, you know,
we're no Denver or something like this.
But this group of women had come in.
They visited a few years before from New York, eastern Long
Island, Montauk kind of area and California.
And they were going to restore an A colonial Revival house on
like one of the two kind of fancy streets in town.
And it was called Vista House. And Vista is the goddess of the
hearth. And she is both the oldest and
youngest Olympic goddess because, you know, Kronos time
was eating all the children. And so she was first born.
And so she was first swallowed because she was the deepest
down. She was the last out.
So she. Was.
And she keeps the heart of Zeus and Hera.
So the heart you picture like the cauldron and her consort is
Helios, the central sun. And if you imagine sort of like
the light based system. And so these folks, I, I was
curious like, who are these vested people?
Like this is really interesting because I live 1/4 mile off of
Albert Pike road. Albert Pike spent most of his
life, he was from Massachusetts, but in Arkansas and a little bit
in Louisiana. He was a lawyer.
He worked for the tribes actually.
And what no one talks about besides his Free Masonic
writings was at the end of his life he wrote a 600 page book on
the Rig Veda, right? So he probably understood a
little bit about how these interdimensional things work.
And it makes me wonder about his time with the tribes in in
Arkansas and what became Oklahoma.
Yeah. So Albert Pike is Mount Ida and
Mount Ida is a center of crystals and this whole we're on
the Ouachita range. And so we're we're part of the
this ancient sea came in silica and these veins and turned into
quartz crystals. And until they made synthetics,
we were really important for oscillators, for crystal radios
in World War Two, really important for all of that.
Mount Ida. I was like, is that in the
Bible? What is Mount Ida?
It is actually where Zeus was raised.
When Raya got wise to Kronos, she fed him a rock and then they
took Zeus away to be raised on Mount Ida.
So you've got like the Mount Ida and the time and quartz, of
course, being used for digital watches.
And that's the whole other time bandit thing with the evil
genius. And he's like, I would make
technology and I would make digital watches, right.
And so we're sitting here in Mount Idaland and so so we've
got Vista and they're you know, it turns out that they had
connections, a graphic designer on her page, her portfolio of
work had all of these documents in a drop box that were
essentially sort of nested projects under this Vista house
project that extended into a blockchain beauty reserve, into
a plasma economy on blockchain into hydro Dow, which pre
existed it, but that's a blockchain water system.
Again, we have this Big Lake into collective ritual and they
were connected. I I sort of say vested adjacent
like maybe not officially, but with team Kelly, Kevin Kelly's
daughter and Kevin Kelly was working on like new economic
systems in addition to the long now and and connected with the
the guy who with Avant mining who is Alice Walton's crystal
dealer. And so there are all of these
overlapping things of like how would one work if you had a
mystery school, right if you were working with the natural
elemental aspects of a whole plan of Arkansas as the quartz
crystal womb. How we work with beauty and how
we work together. So you know I've one of them is
a the the three women who were invested are is a professor of
NYU in love like her thing and she runs a technology enabled
meditation Dome in New York City.
One of them has clairvoyant ability stuff and then the third
one was working helped found the Bio Mimicry Institute, which
links to like sustainability, but carbon trading.
And again, many people the prevailing narrative is Agenda
21 in the top down control techno fascism.
But The thing is I feel very strongly that this group, I
don't think they are aware of it, but in the gestalt that they
are carrying the mantle of the Linda Starne Association, which
was William Orman Thompson who had spent time at Findhorn and
come back. He had been a professor at MIT
was supported by Lawrence Rockefeller who was the woo woo
Rockefeller right set up out on eastern Long Island.
The Lindisfarne was the precursor to Burning Man in the
70s that had all of these fellows working on sacred
geometry, ultrasonics like both science and metaphysical works
into John the Divine over to Crestone where they were
connected with Maurice Strong, which again central to the UNSDG
program and Lawrence Rockefeller.
But they set up Meadow Creek as essentially this meta industrial
village, which would be a small arts and crafts artisanal, but
Internet connected. And this was in 81.
They brought in David Orr from Penn, a newly minted PhD from
Penn Policy, I think, who he and his twin brother ran it for a
few years. It was under The Nature
Conservancy at Three Mile Long Valley.
He let then became a lead professor in sustainability at
Oberlin. But that Meadow Creek is still
sitting out there, right? And to me JG Bennett, who is a
student of Gurdachev who was had an NDE signals intelligence,
very mystical person, developed his own version of the Gurdachev
like embody workings and was working with Subud and things
built this place at Coombe Springs in the UK.
And at the end of his life, he says we need psychokinetic
communities. And he had this guy Pierre
Elliot build one in West Virginia called oh gosh, what is
the one in West Virginia? Coombe Springs with the UK.
I'll think of it, but it was. Psychokinetic.
What do they mean by by that? So I think essentially it is
groups of people who are resonating in with higher
dimensions. OK, Yeah.
Yeah. And so if you imagine, like, I
kind of went head to head with Derek Bros a lot early on and
John Bush about their freedom cells and blockchain.
Why did their freedom cells need to be on blockchain, right?
Like if you're just going off grid, are you doing global
trade? Like that really was the only
reason, like I could see at the time, like why you would do
blockchain and, but maybe it is an interdimensional pattern
signaling like a networking system, right.
And so the, the one in West Virginia was getting started
right as Jay Rockefeller became, was rising in his politics in,
in West Virginia. And then Meadow Creek, Winthrop
Rockefeller was governor and he died young in his 60s, but his
money went into Win Rock International, which is about an
hour from Meadow Creek, maybe an hour and 20 minutes.
Win Rock International developed the first voluntary carbon
trading systems. And in it his ranch backs up to
the Petroglyph caves in Petty Jean State Park, which is Awpa
State Park. And Christiana Figueres, who was
the daughter of the president of Puerto Costa Rica, she went to
Swarthmore outside of in outside of Philadelphia.
She trained in gestalt at in Cleveland.
She was the one who developed the carbon markets.
So and, and, and so Costa Rica is such a rich biodiverse place.
This, this idea that's coming up is this ecological reservoir
computing, using living systems for information processing
purposes. And that was that was started in
the 1950s with Gordon Pask and Stafford Beer, who were British
cyberneticists. They were dumping iron filings
in a pond to cycle nutrients to get the algae to process
information, right. And then Evelyn Hutchinson was
doing the same thing with radioactive isotopes in a
Connecticut pond. He taught at Yale and he then
taught, I can't remember, it was Howard or Eugene Odom.
I always forget. But those twin brothers
developed the first textbook on ecology, and that was all coming
out of the Atomic Energy Commission.
And it was both springs and like using radiation to track energy
through natural systems. And so I think that there is
something like we're going to see a shift with the AI
conversation to be like, look, it's using water, it's using
energy, it's using all these bad things.
And they'll be like, OK, well now, like I don't know if it's
in my lifetime, but there will be a shift into a psychokinetic
community like but organized as a haul on right.
What are your interest groups? Are you an eco village or do you
prefer to like do video gaming and a stack and pack housing
situation? Like some people will pick
different things, right? They'll be in the Symphony and
everybody like and you've just got to hope.
If you get sick and tired of the thing you're doing and you want
to do something different, there's an incentive for you to
go find the thing you actually want to do.
But in the realm like the UBII think that the Giving Pledge
from Buffett and Gates is a backstop to Ubi and it's
actually could be a global 2nd order cybernetic emergent
systems that is interdimensional.
Wow. Which reminds me of sort of like
the Omega Point from Yeah. Christogenesis well in the thing
within the psycho like I mentioned the the Society for
Psychical Research Research and Arthur Balfour.
So Vladimir Vernadsky was the pair working with like around
the same time Talar Desjardins was working on the Omega Point
in Christogenesis. And Vladimir Vernadsky was using
similar outlook to develop the idea of the biosphere.
And he was a biochemist. He was working in the lab in
Paris of Pierre and Marie Curie, right?
So that's Pierre Curie and his brother discovered quote UN
quote, piezoelectricity in quartz crystal.
So we've got quartz, they're working in radiation.
But Pierre and Marie were also members of the Society for
Psychical Research. And so if you imagine that
Vernadsky was working early in his career in that environment
with people who are understanding interdimensional
information access, he goes back he's I mean, my understanding is
like every mid sized town in in Ukraine and Russia, like have a
street named after him. Like he was highly regarded
scientist. Very little of his work was
translated and then only selectively in the West.
All of the psychokinetic like research that was happening
during the Cold War, like it has a different lens, it has a
different possibility. Which is, so I mean, I'm going
to assert something here about what you're saying.
Like there are people who are connected with, you know, these
various occult things, whether it's Theosophy or Anthroposophy
or any of those different things.
And they are involved in these systems that are sort of pushing
in these directions. But it's not necessarily that
they're doing so consciously. It's that maybe by being
involved in some of this kind of research or, you know, interest
fields, they almost become an active tool of whatever the the
energetic system is trying to manifest.
Is that fair to say from what you're I mean, because or or or
all these people consciously trying to do this, I guess.
No, I don't think it's conscious.
I initially I started to do my research when I was very judgy.
I was like, Oh, I'm just and then and then I would spend a
lot of emotional and intellectual energy trying to
figure out like, are they controlled opposition?
Do they know? How much do they know?
Do they? And it was like a stupid.
I mean, in retrospect, I mean, I it's in some respects very
natural because we want to know where we are in position to
that, but it didn't didn't really make any.
My sense is again in my frame is that it's a self assembling
system. Exactly right.
But people can engage in it, yeah.
And so it's distributed widely enough that and if it is a
higher gestalt, right, like if we imagine that again, from an
astrological standpoint or an archetypal standpoint, like you
come in with certain you might say enabling constraints, right?
But to play a game, there need to be some rules to bump up
against, right? Like there needs, if you could
do anything then kind of you tend to sit around and.
Not do, yeah. Whatever.
So there's some constraints, but then you have degrees of freedom
within those constraints to figure out what.
So there's like a framework that you come in with.
And then there's a social environment that you occupy that
reinforces certain systems, right?
Whether it be your career trajectory or your educational
trajectory, your social networks, real or digital.
And so you can exist in a world model where you are getting
reinforcement for being the good person or being successful.
There's not much of an incentive to start looking for trouble.
Like if it's working for you like to look sideways.
And like, and the other thing that I realized because I'm
operating, you know, I have a master's degree, but I'm
operating outside of academia. Once you live in a in a space of
experts, like only experts can talk about the expert things,
then because if if you're an expert, you have a PhD blah,
blah, blah, and you're the expert in this narrow thing who
are if you go starting to poke around in somebody else's expert
thing, that actually dilutes your expert thing.
Right, like expert doesn't mean as much anymore.
Right. So like, you don't want to be
like, well, who are you to talk about that guy stuff because
he's the expert, right? And then because you wouldn't
want him talking about your stuff.
So everybody just does a slide. And so there's the natural
philosophers of everybody does a little bit of stuff and they sit
around the coffee shop or the ale joint and like spin some
ideas out. We don't do that so much anymore
like because we're in these a tractor basins and so.
You do. There's this, there's this like,
and then there's a subset of those of us who know their
subsets, you know, that's like there's the people who know that
there's reality tunnels and and then that's a tunnel.
So I don't think like in in that way, it loosens up that having
to make people bad again. I did for so long and I think it
really hurt the people around me that I cared about by having to
do to do that. But I was following a social
program again, as the NPR liberal or the progressive that
says to be a good person, you fulfill this role to be like a
nice white ally in the social justice protocol.
It means you do XYZ thing even when for a while it felt really
like it wasn't working. Like for me to be authentically
me and do what I felt authentically called to do, it
was actually compromised. It was going up.
It was bumping up against the role that I was being given.
And so I, then I just had to kind of step out of all of it.
So I don't think that people are doing it on purpose.
Like, you know, I, I sent some stuff to, to, to Julia about
the, the, the Educare surveillance play tables and
stuff. And she was very sweet.
And she said, well, I'll send this to some people and see if
this is a thing, right? Like, I haven't heard, you know,
And then I've, unfortunately, I barraged her with a whole bunch
of like backup material, which is maybe not the best thing to
do. But even if the people who are
looking at the stuff don't act on it, it's not because they're
bad people. It's just maybe their model
can't hold it. Exactly.
Right. And to even engage with it
involves a level of sort of metaphysical risk.
I think it's like you got to open yourself up to a whole
different way of thinking about things, you know?
And people aren't necessarily always willing to do that.
And even for me, like I do boundary management now, right?
Like, I can at least say I have a way that I'm being in the
world, which involves not being on, like, limiting my social
media footprint and not engaging with the daily trauma story,
right? And the old me would have said,
well, who do you think you are that you can ignore all the
justices of the world? That's that's privilege, you
know, or no? And exactly.
And, and, and, and at that time that would have been correct.
And at this time, I'm like, I'm the gardener who's like finding
sacred geometry in plants and watching them butterfly.
So I can hold a frequency because I'm in this different
slice of the story now, but it doesn't mean that I have to look
down on the person I was or disregard the person I am.
I can actually, we can be all the things, you know, like we
don't actually have to do. So just know you're about like,
if what I can invite is the idea of a metacognitive awareness of
your process. Like that's what I love about
the process philosophy part, is that there isn't a beginning or
an end. You're just always in process.
Yeah. You don't arrive anywhere, Yeah.
So if you want to manage your boundary fine, like I've had
some people are like bad and I'm like, that's fine.
Boundary management. I see your, I see that you're
managing your boundary well, like respect, you know?
Yeah, and for people who are open minded, I think.
Story Wallet. Yeah.
But the, the fact that you maintain that kind of approach,
I think for people who are open minded, that's more of a draw
than anything because you're not trying to sell it, you know, and
that's so many people are trying to sell so much.
Because I don't know. But The thing is like, there may
be people who have stuff on their pin board that I would
love to know about, right? Like, I like, I can't tell you,
I spent like a month after I found Richard's channel on
category theory and just being like, and again, there's a
beauty in the way different people's minds operate.
Like, and I, I, I really like, respect that again, about like
Julia's work and working with like people who have different
abilities and different, you know, aspects because wow.
It like a mind that can work on math and the language of math is
different from my mind that works in material symbols of
like plants or story, like certain kinds of, they're just
different kinds of stories, but they're really complementary.
So to be able to like be of an age or have enough life
experience to just like, really sit back and like appreciate
someone else's skill set in a space is really cool.
So like optimally I, I've been doing read alouds of this book,
Babel 17 from the 1960s, which is this great like space opera
and people are hating me because it's been like 2 months and I
haven't read the last chapter. It's on archive.org.
But essentially it's about like putting together A-Team for a
mission and how it's done and the very non traditional way
this woman puts it together. And and this is in the 1968 and
the the the heroine or the person I don't even know she
would be a heroine but is an spectrum Y Chinese poet woman.
You know. Female poet, right for 68.
That's pretty like that's pretty powerful.
Like that's the person that to run the mission, right to pick.
And so like we need to be able to like.
Be open to like the teaming opportunities are we don't need
to, I don't mean to prescribe to anyone like that's like, but
what you could live in a story where you could be open to
teaming like with unconventional teams.
Yeah, and that's a path to to reinvention, I think.
I think we're about out of time, but that was fantastic.
Yeah, we got way farther than I, We got a lot, but I would love
to have you back. So let's do that at some point
too, if you don't mind. Yeah.
I mean, the educare we play smart surveillance, play tables
from Hatch Education like that and scrying like my journey to
be like, wait a minute, they're spying on these kids to like, Oh
my gosh, child divination. That's something that we have to
talk more about. But no, I love this.
This systematizes so much of the things that I've been thinking
about and gives a rational handle on some some other
aspect. It's just brilliantly done and
everybody. The thing that they like, right?
It's like you like paranormal ectoplasm.
Awesome. That's how it's going to be for
you and you really like flying objects or light orbs.
Great. That's what you get and
everybody you can get what you get and not have to make the
other person like like, oh wow, it's like, you know, Halloween
candy. It's like, I'll trade you with
this for that, like. Yeah, exactly right.
Your collection if you like to.