1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,740 Where do you think you are now? You're 2 00:00:02,740 --> 00:00:04,400 probably way behind the curve. You're 3 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,820 probably like, you know, getting breached and stuff 4 00:00:07,820 --> 00:00:10,240 like that. You can't take a vacation from 5 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,040 investing. Hey, I'm not saying I agree. 6 00:00:12,540 --> 00:00:14,320 I'm just trying to play AI 7 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,200 advocate here. I'm trying to think really hard 8 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,600 because budgets are tough. And 9 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,080 if you have magic IAM people, IAM heroes is what 10 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:24,700 I like to say, running around behind the scenes, 11 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,860 just making it work. And the organization doesn't 12 00:00:27,860 --> 00:00:31,440 feel the pain of not having modern tools, let's 13 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,200 say. Could you have gotten away with 14 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:35,600 it? I would argue, yes, it 15 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,120 happens. It still happens today, right? 16 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:38,420 But should you? You 17 00:00:38,428 --> 00:00:41,300 can get away, Jeff, you can get away without buying 18 00:00:41,300 --> 00:00:46,640 life insurance. But if you die, then your 19 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,260 family will have no money. Well, 20 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,120 that's their problem, not mine. Yeah. 21 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:59,960 Yeah. This is identity at the center. 22 00:01:00,420 --> 00:01:02,580 If it has anything to do with 23 00:01:02,580 --> 00:01:07,180 IAM, this is the go to podcast. Now 24 00:01:07,180 --> 00:01:17,640 your hosts, Jim McDonald and Jeff Steadman. Welcome 25 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,360 to the identity at the center podcast. I'm 26 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,720 Jeff and that's Jim. Hey, Jim. Hey, 27 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,300 Jeff, how are you? Oh, not so bad yourself. I'm 28 00:01:25,300 --> 00:01:27,500 doing great, man. I'm in a good mood. How 29 00:01:27,500 --> 00:01:29,820 are you feeling? Oh, all right, you caught me. 30 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,200 I'm a little crabby and I 31 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:32,320 don't know why. I just have one of those 32 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:35,680 days, I think. You know, whenever I'm feeling 33 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,060 crabby, I think about crabby patties and how 34 00:01:39,060 --> 00:01:43,720 they're like the jam. I never actually had a crabby 35 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,860 patty, but that was like the hamburger looking thing 36 00:01:46,860 --> 00:01:48,900 that they had on SpongeBob. Any 37 00:01:48,900 --> 00:01:51,560 time to have a crab cake? No, 38 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,460 no, like the hamburgers on SpongeBob that they made at 39 00:01:54,460 --> 00:01:56,880 Mr. Crab's restaurant. Jim. 40 00:01:57,020 --> 00:01:58,460 Have you ever watched SpongeBob? Jim, 41 00:01:58,620 --> 00:02:00,880 I'm a grown ass man. I have never seen SpongeBob. 42 00:02:01,860 --> 00:02:03,400 Oh, you're missing out, bro. 43 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:04,700 You're missing out. It's 44 00:02:04,700 --> 00:02:08,160 not, it's not, it's like the Simpsons. It's 45 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,800 a cartoon, but it's something like hidden. I've 46 00:02:11,808 --> 00:02:14,140 seen pictures of it. I've seen like memes or 47 00:02:14,140 --> 00:02:16,040 something like that. It's funny, whatever, but no, 48 00:02:16,140 --> 00:02:18,440 I've never, I've never sat down and I don't think 49 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,860 I've ever seen more than three seconds of a 50 00:02:20,860 --> 00:02:23,280 SpongeBob thing. Oh, yeah. I'm 51 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,160 missing out, man. So is this something you're 52 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,560 doing? Just watching SpongeBob all the 53 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,180 time? Well, no, I guess I did have 54 00:02:30,180 --> 00:02:34,120 kids that were in the right age range for that 55 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,460 show for a while. So I'd wind up watching it. 56 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:38,440 But then I realized that, oh, 57 00:02:38,460 --> 00:02:42,120 there's one of those cartoons that's meant to 58 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,140 keep adults entertained as well, like Simpsons. See, 59 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:46,380 there you go. I don't have kids. So 60 00:02:46,388 --> 00:02:48,200 I never, I never have not gone through any of those 61 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,960 phases. Just keep just watching a 62 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:52,780 pursuit or two. Like, what do you have to lose? 63 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,040 I don't know. You're 64 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,840 not in the right mood for that kind of suggestion. 65 00:02:58,160 --> 00:02:59,540 Yeah, yeah, don't try and don't 66 00:02:59,540 --> 00:03:00,920 try and solve the problem, Jim. I 67 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:04,140 just want to be crabby. Crabby 68 00:03:04,140 --> 00:03:06,580 patties. Well, you know, one thing that 69 00:03:06,580 --> 00:03:08,220 I'm not crabby about, and this is kind of a 70 00:03:08,220 --> 00:03:10,740 milestone for us this morning, was we crossed 71 00:03:10,740 --> 00:03:15,080 over 300 ,000 downloads of this tiny little IAM 72 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,700 podcast, not so tiny anymore, I guess. I 73 00:03:17,700 --> 00:03:19,060 know. I'm going to sound like a 74 00:03:19,060 --> 00:03:21,300 broken record to say. I remember when we had 20 75 00:03:21,300 --> 00:03:24,580 downloads of the first episode and we knew all 20 76 00:03:24,580 --> 00:03:27,700 people were. But we literally just started 77 00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:32,060 by you saying one day, let's start a podcast. I 78 00:03:32,060 --> 00:03:35,180 was like, OK, thinking this won't last. We're 79 00:03:35,180 --> 00:03:38,320 coming up on 300 episodes and 300 ,000 downloads. 80 00:03:38,820 --> 00:03:40,300 Pretty amazing. Well, 81 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:41,600 it's pretty amazing as it took. Yeah, 82 00:03:41,660 --> 00:03:43,660 we had no idea we were doing 100 ,000. And 83 00:03:43,660 --> 00:03:46,780 it took four and a half years, roughly, to get to 84 00:03:46,780 --> 00:03:48,900 100 ,000. Because I remember we celebrated 85 00:03:48,900 --> 00:03:51,020 that at Adeniverse last year. And 86 00:03:51,020 --> 00:03:53,840 we're at 300 ,000 and it's less than a year later, 87 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:56,040 which is absolutely bananas. And 88 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,200 we saw a ton of growth just within the last 89 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,500 several months and stuff like that. But 90 00:04:00,500 --> 00:04:03,920 it's a lot of fun. We still do it. You 91 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:05,220 know, this is not our job. We 92 00:04:05,220 --> 00:04:07,100 do it because we like doing it. And, 93 00:04:07,260 --> 00:04:08,980 you know, thank you, everyone who's listened, 94 00:04:09,100 --> 00:04:12,000 subscribed, shared, you know, all that fun stuff. 95 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,040 And yeah, it's kind of fun to 96 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,140 take a step back and, you know, that'll probably put 97 00:04:16,140 --> 00:04:17,480 a smile on my face now here for a little bit. 98 00:04:18,300 --> 00:04:19,640 Yeah, well, you know, just 99 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,660 thinking about it, like that doesn't include our 100 00:04:21,660 --> 00:04:24,820 YouTube stats. So if you count those in, we 101 00:04:24,820 --> 00:04:28,340 have like 301 ,000 downloads. No, 102 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,320 300 ,000 and one, you mean? Our 103 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,060 YouTube channel is still very small, but we are 104 00:04:34,060 --> 00:04:37,000 putting more emphasis on it. Starting 105 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,900 to think about how we're going to do video episodes. 106 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:42,300 Still a little bit of a 107 00:04:42,300 --> 00:04:44,260 challenge from a timing perspective, just, you know, 108 00:04:44,380 --> 00:04:46,860 forth, forth, forth wall here is we're recording 109 00:04:46,860 --> 00:04:49,220 this on a Friday. And this needs to go out 110 00:04:49,220 --> 00:04:52,380 Monday. I have other stuff to do and 111 00:04:52,380 --> 00:04:55,620 I still need to get this edited once we're done and 112 00:04:55,620 --> 00:04:57,500 trying to figure out how that quick turnaround will 113 00:04:57,500 --> 00:04:58,660 work. So this might end up being 114 00:04:58,660 --> 00:05:02,620 only an audio episode, but if it, if I have time, I 115 00:05:02,620 --> 00:05:04,660 can figure out a good workflow and get better at 116 00:05:04,660 --> 00:05:06,100 it. There may be video episodes 117 00:05:06,100 --> 00:05:09,260 showing up on YouTube. So go to our YouTube channel. 118 00:05:09,260 --> 00:05:11,820 Subscribe, like, do all that stuff 119 00:05:11,820 --> 00:05:14,680 the same way we'd built up the audio podcasts. We're 120 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:15,960 going to keep doing that, but we're going to start 121 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,940 doing video as well. Um, as time permits and 122 00:05:18,940 --> 00:05:20,900 hopefully time will be more permitting in the future. 123 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:23,320 Yeah, because the real thing is 124 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,360 like, I think when people find out about the podcast, 125 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,240 probably half of those people will continue to 126 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,360 listen or in the future, watch the podcast. So 127 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,880 when people go out and like and subscribe, it 128 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,040 helps more people find the podcast and. You 129 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,900 know, hopefully, I mean, the way I look at it is 130 00:05:41,900 --> 00:05:45,840 it's a community. I depose a community. I 131 00:05:45,840 --> 00:05:49,480 think the listening of identity center is a 132 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,900 community. I see a lot of people, you 133 00:05:51,900 --> 00:05:55,940 know, really get a lot of value out of it. And 134 00:05:55,940 --> 00:05:58,860 we get to meet folks and introduce those folks to 135 00:05:58,860 --> 00:06:01,920 other folks. And it's, it's everything I 136 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:06,400 hoped it could be. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. We're 137 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,300 having fun doing it and we try to keep it fresh. So 138 00:06:09,300 --> 00:06:11,780 we'll keep doing it until one or both of us gets 139 00:06:11,780 --> 00:06:16,280 bored. And then that'll be it. Let's 140 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:18,420 see, it's a Friday night. What 141 00:06:18,420 --> 00:06:21,380 do we want to talk about this week? I 142 00:06:21,388 --> 00:06:24,080 think, well, first we have to talk about like all the 143 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,280 conferences that are coming up. The 144 00:06:26,280 --> 00:06:28,900 first one is identityverse. As 145 00:06:28,900 --> 00:06:31,240 everyone knows, it's like the one of the biggest 146 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,460 conferences within the digital identity industry. 147 00:06:35,860 --> 00:06:38,640 It's May 28th through the 31st 148 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,040 at the ARIA. We've got a 25 % off discount 149 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:48,900 code. It's IDV24 -IDAC25. It's 150 00:06:48,900 --> 00:06:51,680 kind of a long code. But hey, when you get 25 % 151 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,300 off, I think it's worth using. And 152 00:06:54,300 --> 00:06:56,700 you pretty much go to identiverse .com and you can 153 00:06:56,700 --> 00:06:58,740 figure out how to go through the registration 154 00:06:58,740 --> 00:07:02,900 process. I know early bird pricing is 155 00:07:02,900 --> 00:07:05,960 up soon and might already be up. But 156 00:07:05,967 --> 00:07:08,760 the longer you wait, the more expensive it gets. So 157 00:07:08,768 --> 00:07:11,240 I'd say get out there and register as soon as 158 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,660 possible. Jeff and I are going to be 159 00:07:13,660 --> 00:07:16,120 there. We'd love to meet every one of 160 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,220 our listeners or as many people as want to come up 161 00:07:19,220 --> 00:07:21,780 and introduce themselves. We'll 162 00:07:21,780 --> 00:07:28,600 be at multiple places. So we're having a happy hour. 163 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:29,840 I think it's Tuesday night, 164 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,740 but reach out to Jeff Rai on LinkedIn. Choose 165 00:07:33,740 --> 00:07:37,000 the DM if you're interested in meeting us and going to 166 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,480 the happy hour. It's going to be with TALUS. 167 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:42,920 It's going to be at the one of 168 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,260 the bars in the ARIA. I think, do you remember what 169 00:07:45,260 --> 00:07:46,580 it's called? I don't remember, but it's 170 00:07:46,580 --> 00:07:47,840 with TALUS and RSM, right? I 171 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,680 think that's the plan. Yeah, 172 00:07:49,740 --> 00:07:53,380 TALUS and RSM. We're also going to be recording 173 00:07:53,380 --> 00:07:56,720 live episodes. So there's one room that's 174 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,140 kind of like a fishbowl recording studio. And 175 00:08:00,140 --> 00:08:03,640 folks can stand outside of that, look in and they 176 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:05,900 have headphones available that people can put the 177 00:08:05,900 --> 00:08:08,740 headphones on and listen to what's going on. I 178 00:08:08,740 --> 00:08:10,540 know you're laughing, Jeff, but that's a huge 179 00:08:10,540 --> 00:08:13,540 improvement versus what we did last year where nobody 180 00:08:13,540 --> 00:08:16,000 could hear us. Yeah. I mean, there's two 181 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,160 options, right? You can either, I think that's 182 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,540 going to be in between both of the expo halls. 183 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:21,700 There's two expo halls this year. 184 00:08:22,260 --> 00:08:23,280 It'll be a fishbowl. We're 185 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,460 kind of sharing it with the CRA, TV folks, the 186 00:08:26,460 --> 00:08:29,000 folks who help put on a number of cyber risk 187 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:30,060 alliance. We've been great partners 188 00:08:30,060 --> 00:08:32,380 throughout this. So we'll kind of be using 189 00:08:32,380 --> 00:08:35,799 unused time from them and we'll also have a 190 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:38,120 conference room somewhere. I don't know exactly where it 191 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,659 is yet, but there will be a sign outside of it where 192 00:08:41,500 --> 00:08:42,900 people should definitely be able to hear us then 193 00:08:42,900 --> 00:08:44,360 because it'll be a little bit further away from 194 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:45,740 everyone. We'll be kind of in a room. 195 00:08:46,100 --> 00:08:47,320 We'll have different guests. I 196 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,440 hope we'll have some chairs, maybe one or two 197 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:50,900 people will show up and watch us kind of record 198 00:08:50,900 --> 00:08:51,940 one of these things live. And 199 00:08:51,948 --> 00:08:56,000 yeah, that'll be a lot of fun. Yeah. 200 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:01,280 So the third thing, we had a third thing going on as 201 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:06,200 well for people, we're going to be with RSM and 202 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:11,980 TALIS at the TALIS booth or whatever. Yeah. 203 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,760 Was that the booth or whatever it is on the expo 204 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,240 floor? Expo hall. So 205 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,640 there's going to be an opportunity to drop by and 206 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,880 meet us there as well. Again, 207 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:22,860 if like you're interested in any of those things, 208 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,200 just reach out to us with DMs or play it by ear. 209 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:28,760 We'll drop by any of the things. 210 00:09:29,780 --> 00:09:30,440 Just like we do here on the 211 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,640 podcast, just we'll do it live. Just 212 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,680 yeah, just wing it. Yeah. I'm also hosting a or 213 00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:37,300 moderating a panel, I guess, probably a good way. 214 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,800 So former guests on the show, 215 00:09:41,180 --> 00:09:45,140 Sean O'Dell and a tool, Toolshed Bagway, are going 216 00:09:45,140 --> 00:09:48,160 to be talking about CAPE, C -A -E -P, Continuous Access 217 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,620 Evaluation Profile. And they've asked me to 218 00:09:50,620 --> 00:09:52,460 moderate a panel that they'll be on. So 219 00:09:52,468 --> 00:09:55,560 I will be the everyday man trying to figure out what 220 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:57,340 the heck they're talking about as I moderate the 221 00:09:57,340 --> 00:09:58,680 session. So that'll be on Wednesday, 222 00:09:59,020 --> 00:10:02,920 May 29th at 1140 AM. So I hope people come out and 223 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:04,980 check that out too. I've not done a lot of 224 00:10:04,980 --> 00:10:06,200 moderating for conferences. I 225 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,700 guess maybe my second or maybe third time. So 226 00:10:09,700 --> 00:10:11,580 watch me be nervous up on a stage with a bunch of 227 00:10:11,580 --> 00:10:14,060 people. Yeah, that was such a good 228 00:10:14,060 --> 00:10:16,980 episode that we did. I mean, those guys are really 229 00:10:16,980 --> 00:10:18,860 on some of the cutting edge stuff. So 230 00:10:18,860 --> 00:10:21,660 I think a lot of us in our day to day, we're 231 00:10:21,660 --> 00:10:25,040 doing things that have been kind of established. I 232 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,140 always think of identity as like, for the most part, 233 00:10:28,620 --> 00:10:31,840 you're kind of like doing things that have been 234 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,500 proven to work. People call it best practices. I 235 00:10:35,500 --> 00:10:38,800 don't like that term, but they're proven technologies. 236 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:40,300 These guys are kind of like 237 00:10:40,300 --> 00:10:43,060 moving into areas that are, I wouldn't call it bleeding 238 00:10:43,060 --> 00:10:45,400 edge, but they're newer. Like 239 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,480 CAPE is newer. So you can learn a lot 240 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,300 because I think, if it picks up steam and gets 241 00:10:52,300 --> 00:10:55,720 more folks adopting, it's going to be proven 242 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,200 technology. You know, Sean would probably 243 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,060 already argue it is proven technology, right? But 244 00:11:01,060 --> 00:11:03,900 he's out there proving it. Yep, 245 00:11:03,980 --> 00:11:06,440 exactly. So then let's see, after a 246 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,800 Denver, we've got people probably hopping on a plane 247 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,560 going straight to European identity and cloud 248 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:14,380 conference that is June 4th or the 7th in Berlin. We 249 00:11:14,380 --> 00:11:16,760 have a discount code for that as well. EIC 250 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,780 24 IDAC 25 gets you 25 % off. We'll 251 00:11:20,780 --> 00:11:22,160 have a link in our show notes for that one. We 252 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,820 will not be there, but fortunately we have a code 253 00:11:24,820 --> 00:11:26,240 that we can share with folks. Well, 254 00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:28,720 we will be back later this year is identity week and 255 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:30,440 there's a handful of conferences throughout the 256 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,380 year. So there's Europe, which is in 257 00:11:32,380 --> 00:11:35,600 Amsterdam, June 11th and 12th. There 258 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,240 is Americas, which is Washington, DC, September 259 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,180 11th and 12th. That's the one Jim, you and I 260 00:11:41,180 --> 00:11:44,460 will be at. And then Asia, October 22nd, 261 00:11:44,460 --> 00:11:50,140 23rd IDAC 30 gets you 30 % off of all of those 262 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,380 conferences. So looking forward to that. So 263 00:11:53,380 --> 00:11:54,780 kind of cool. One of the things we should do 264 00:11:54,780 --> 00:11:57,200 is kind of try to highlight the different 265 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:58,480 conferences that are happening throughout the 266 00:11:58,480 --> 00:11:59,240 year. I think we'll have 267 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,140 authenticate coming up at some point later this year. 268 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:02,120 I mean, it'll be happening, 269 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,420 but we'll have, I hope a discount code for that one. 270 00:12:04,660 --> 00:12:05,680 So that people can reach for 271 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:08,820 that. And Andrew Shikiar will come 272 00:12:08,820 --> 00:12:12,040 back on the show and help us understand like what's 273 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,800 going on there. We'll play a part in that with 274 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,740 the podcast. I also wanted to mention RSA 275 00:12:17,740 --> 00:12:19,580 is coming up. We don't have a discount code 276 00:12:19,580 --> 00:12:22,860 for that, but how many times have you been asked 277 00:12:22,860 --> 00:12:25,540 so far, Jeff, if you're going to be at RSA? I 278 00:12:25,540 --> 00:12:28,760 think everybody has asked and I, I have been in the 279 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:29,860 past. I think this is the second 280 00:12:29,860 --> 00:12:31,360 year in a row that I haven't gone, but I think 281 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:32,860 there's probably a streak of like three or four that 282 00:12:32,860 --> 00:12:35,540 I went to, but just not this year. So 283 00:12:35,540 --> 00:12:36,980 here's my approach to it. I 284 00:12:36,988 --> 00:12:40,580 mean, I'm not looking to ask you to try to put it 285 00:12:40,580 --> 00:12:43,080 down or anything or pump it up. But 286 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,980 what is your, what's your thought on RSA? I 287 00:12:45,980 --> 00:12:47,380 think it's great for meeting folks. I'll 288 00:12:47,380 --> 00:12:48,420 be honest. I don't think I've ever 289 00:12:48,420 --> 00:12:50,480 actually attended a session. The 290 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,660 way that I go, and this is a pro tip for folks is 291 00:12:52,660 --> 00:12:56,040 if you want to go to RSA and it's expensive, for 292 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,280 sure, get just the business hall pass and go walk to 293 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,240 the expo hall. You can literally spend two 294 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,600 days just exploring it, seeing what new technologies 295 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,840 are out there and stuff like that. That's 296 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:07,880 usually what I go for is that kind of thing. 297 00:13:08,980 --> 00:13:10,000 Everyone wants to know you might be 298 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,520 able to sneak into a side room or something like that 299 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,380 to catch a session. But I don't remember, I don't 300 00:13:14,380 --> 00:13:15,660 know what it cost this year, but it was like 50 301 00:13:15,660 --> 00:13:17,160 bucks a couple of years ago. You 302 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,060 know, maybe it's gone up in price, probably like 303 00:13:19,060 --> 00:13:20,880 everything else. But that was all as my pro 304 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,240 tip for RSA was just even, you know, if, if you're 305 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,920 looking to save some costs, the money you save on 306 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,440 travel or the money that you save on the, on the 307 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,020 conference pass can be for the travel that's a little 308 00:13:31,020 --> 00:13:31,940 more expensive for services. Let's 309 00:13:31,940 --> 00:13:34,080 go. Yeah. My problem with San 310 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:38,260 Francisco is like $400 hotel rooms per night. I 311 00:13:38,260 --> 00:13:40,640 mean, they would move it to Vegas. You 312 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,760 could get a lot cheaper. I mean, $200 and now you can 313 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:46,460 get a nice hotel room. Yeah. 314 00:13:46,860 --> 00:13:48,300 Let's Vegas. It's built for that, but some 315 00:13:48,300 --> 00:13:49,660 people don't like Vegas either. So 316 00:13:49,660 --> 00:13:52,540 can't win. Can't win. You 317 00:13:52,540 --> 00:13:54,100 can't make everyone happy. Yeah. 318 00:13:54,460 --> 00:13:56,560 Well, let's see. How can, how can we make some 319 00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:58,600 people happy this week, Jim? Mailbag? 320 00:13:58,820 --> 00:14:01,800 We can, we can respond to their questions. Okay. 321 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,860 And you have this crazy idea of how we're going to 322 00:14:05,860 --> 00:14:09,240 respond to these questions from listeners out in the 323 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:13,000 world. Explain your idea here so that we 324 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,060 can kind of set the stage because this is definitely 325 00:14:16,060 --> 00:14:19,280 going to have visual as well as audio components to 326 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:20,500 it. And we're trying to make sure 327 00:14:20,500 --> 00:14:22,980 this comes off well for audio too. Yeah. 328 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,400 Yeah. So considering the audio 329 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,280 podcast aspect of it, we're going to read off the 330 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,620 questions that we've gotten, uh, these are real 331 00:14:33,620 --> 00:14:39,340 questions and we'll put them into an AI engine. So 332 00:14:39,340 --> 00:14:42,000 we're going to use gem, Google's Gemini, not just 333 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,480 Gemini, Gemini advanced. Cause 334 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:45,760 I should pay for it. We're going to use the advanced 335 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,180 version. So I have no idea what's 336 00:14:48,180 --> 00:14:51,040 going to happen, but we'll enter them in. Jeff 337 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,840 is very good at like command line prompting or 338 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:56,720 prompt engineering. They call it, right? There 339 00:14:56,728 --> 00:14:59,340 you go. So he'll get us to as tight 340 00:14:59,340 --> 00:15:02,460 of a answer as possible or say it's a bit of an 341 00:15:02,460 --> 00:15:04,940 answer and it's like two pages long. We're 342 00:15:04,940 --> 00:15:06,920 not going to bore you by reading that. I'm 343 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,300 going to get down to kind of like, you know, top 344 00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:11,780 five or, you know, short descriptions. Then 345 00:15:11,780 --> 00:15:14,180 we're going to read them off. Obviously, 346 00:15:14,340 --> 00:15:17,120 if, if we get this out to YouTube and you can see 347 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,380 the questions, you can see everything, the AI outputs. 348 00:15:20,820 --> 00:15:23,140 But I mean, I think the 349 00:15:23,140 --> 00:15:26,480 takeaway from doing this is like folks can start to 350 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,800 get the idea of like, all right, this is what you 351 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,260 might be able to get from AI. If 352 00:15:31,260 --> 00:15:34,320 they're not using it already, like we are, and, 353 00:15:34,420 --> 00:15:38,040 you know, put in like top five of this or top 10 of 354 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,360 that, see what comes back. And 355 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,840 then my thing with AI is like, I kind of felt like 356 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,780 my first start using it, like the answers were so 357 00:15:47,780 --> 00:15:51,300 super generic that anybody who had been in the 358 00:15:51,300 --> 00:15:54,720 industry for five or more years, but would know more 359 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,920 nuance than what it was spitting out. So 360 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,660 I'll be real interested, like literally we're 361 00:15:59,660 --> 00:16:02,760 entering these for the first time as we go. So 362 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,280 we'll be evaluating how good the answers are and 363 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,420 whether or not we agree with them. Yeah. 364 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,160 And hopefully helping out some listeners who actually 365 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,580 sent some questions in. So your mileage is going to 366 00:16:12,580 --> 00:16:15,200 vary based on whichever AI model using. I 367 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,180 just happened to pick Gemini Advanced is the one 368 00:16:17,180 --> 00:16:20,480 we're using today, but if you're using Claude or if 369 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,740 you're using open AI, AKA chat, chat GPT or 370 00:16:23,740 --> 00:16:27,640 Microsoft's version of, of chat GPT, the reason I 371 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,240 like Gemini is it's tied to Google, which means 372 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,020 theoretically it should pull back more current 373 00:16:33,020 --> 00:16:35,300 information than some of the other models that are 374 00:16:35,300 --> 00:16:38,340 not trained on anything that's like within the last 375 00:16:38,340 --> 00:16:40,320 year or so. The only exception to that, I 376 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,900 think is meta put out their AI model this week, 377 00:16:43,020 --> 00:16:45,480 meta .ai. You can go to the website and 378 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,040 that's supposed to be connected to both Google 379 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,260 and Bing, but I have not really tried it out yet to 380 00:16:50,260 --> 00:16:52,280 see how good it is. So we're going to just go 381 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:53,840 with Gemini. I just know that mileage may 382 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:55,920 vary. So let's see here. I'm 383 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,400 going to put this question for you just to start. 384 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,680 What is the top identity or 385 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:05,859 digital identity podcast? Are 386 00:17:05,859 --> 00:17:08,619 you going to make me take this out? What 387 00:17:08,619 --> 00:17:15,099 is the top identity and access management podcast in 388 00:17:15,099 --> 00:17:17,060 the world? Yeah, this is going to be very 389 00:17:17,060 --> 00:17:18,740 embarrassing when it comes back with no idea who 390 00:17:18,740 --> 00:17:22,040 you're talking to. Yeah, there is no top. All 391 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,660 right. So it's not even giving like 392 00:17:24,660 --> 00:17:26,280 answers. So it's, you know, basically 393 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,020 saying, okay, well, where subjectivity, evolving 394 00:17:29,020 --> 00:17:33,120 landscape, consider your interests, and then where 395 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:36,840 to find podcasts like, oh, we're on here. Where 396 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:38,680 to find podcasts. So podcast directories like 397 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,060 Apple Spotify, blogs, some popular IAM podcast gets 398 00:17:42,060 --> 00:17:44,520 you started in no particular order. Just 399 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,740 something called identity and access management. I 400 00:17:46,740 --> 00:17:47,760 don't know what that is. Let's 401 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,020 talk about digital identity. That's 402 00:17:49,020 --> 00:17:50,500 by the folks over at Ubi Secure. I 403 00:17:50,500 --> 00:17:52,600 know I've heard about that one. Manage 404 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,100 engines, identity and access management podcast series. I 405 00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:58,240 am pulsed by Biokey International. I'm 406 00:17:58,240 --> 00:17:59,860 not sure if I know what that is. The 407 00:17:59,860 --> 00:18:01,300 identity brief and there we are. Identity 408 00:18:01,300 --> 00:18:03,520 at the center. So hey, I'm going to guess. 409 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:04,660 No particular order, but we're 410 00:18:04,660 --> 00:18:07,140 last. Yeah. So all right. Well, 411 00:18:07,140 --> 00:18:08,460 that was a good warm up. Let's 412 00:18:08,460 --> 00:18:09,440 take the first question. This 413 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,960 one's from Jay in the USA. And 414 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,700 let me go ahead and paste this in here. Jim, 415 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,020 you want to read the question while I'm getting 416 00:18:16,020 --> 00:18:18,540 this set up? Sure. So the question is, what 417 00:18:18,540 --> 00:18:22,440 are the top IAM metrics an organization should collect, 418 00:18:22,660 --> 00:18:27,000 track or monitor for? Okay. And so the way I've done 419 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,460 this is. Yeah. What you added was give 420 00:18:29,460 --> 00:18:32,260 this, go ahead. No, no, go ahead. I 421 00:18:32,260 --> 00:18:34,580 was going to say what you're going to do is for 422 00:18:34,580 --> 00:18:37,620 like a comp engineering perspective, give this an 423 00:18:37,620 --> 00:18:40,200 executive summary format with no more than five 424 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,680 points. Yeah. And hopefully that keeps it 425 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,460 to like one page. So there's not a lot of 426 00:18:44,460 --> 00:18:45,560 scrolling and stuff like that. But 427 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,440 yeah, there we go. So that was kind of the idea 428 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,400 was, okay, take the top five points here. So 429 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,160 one of the top IAM metrics and organizations should 430 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,820 collect, track or monitor for an executive summary 431 00:18:54,820 --> 00:18:58,520 format with no more than five points. Let's 432 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,100 see. So to ensure effective identity 433 00:19:00,100 --> 00:19:02,180 and access management, organizations must prioritize 434 00:19:02,180 --> 00:19:04,160 the tracking of crucial metrics. Here 435 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:05,980 are the breakdown of the top five. All 436 00:19:05,980 --> 00:19:07,700 right, Jim, you read them off. All 437 00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:09,860 right. First is time to provision and 438 00:19:09,860 --> 00:19:12,780 deep revision. Second is privileged account 439 00:19:12,780 --> 00:19:16,260 activity. Third is failed login attempts. 440 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,800 Fourth is number of inactive or 441 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,640 orphaned accounts. And number five is IAM policy 442 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:28,000 compliance. Okay. So I'm going to pick on 443 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,160 some of these and say what I think about them. Like 444 00:19:30,168 --> 00:19:32,460 number one, time to provision and deep 445 00:19:32,460 --> 00:19:35,120 provision. If you're just talking about 446 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:40,100 fully automated processes, like what's the point of 447 00:19:40,100 --> 00:19:42,220 tracking the amount of, yeah. Like, 448 00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:44,740 oh, that took like 12 seconds. Right. 449 00:19:45,500 --> 00:19:48,100 If you're talking about something that's 450 00:19:48,100 --> 00:19:50,920 disconnected, probably you're having to go out to an 451 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:56,140 outside ITSM system to get the information. And 452 00:19:56,140 --> 00:19:59,500 that's a kind of a complicated thing. And 453 00:19:59,500 --> 00:20:02,100 you may not have all that automated to pull that 454 00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:04,100 metric. Are you going to do all the 455 00:20:04,100 --> 00:20:08,240 figuring of that out just to provide a metric? I 456 00:20:08,248 --> 00:20:09,760 just, you might have to. That 457 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,680 might be the reason why you go for, if you're not 458 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,780 automated today, we're spending way too much time 459 00:20:14,780 --> 00:20:17,480 on tickets, creating active directory accounts or email 460 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,340 accounts or X accounts, whatever it may be. Well, 461 00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:22,560 let's do the analysis. How much time did we spend 462 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,040 when was ticket created? What's 463 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,080 the dwell time or how long has the ticket been open 464 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,580 between when it was created and when it was resolved? 465 00:20:30,220 --> 00:20:31,860 You know, does it, is it four 466 00:20:31,860 --> 00:20:35,780 hours, two hours, 48 hours, three weeks, you know, 467 00:20:35,820 --> 00:20:38,240 whatever it may be. So I think it's, I still 468 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,940 think it's a relevant metric, even though you 469 00:20:41,940 --> 00:20:44,580 should be automating chances are you're not automating 470 00:20:44,580 --> 00:20:47,200 everything. And that metric might give you 471 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,800 either a piece of mind to say, okay, we've automated 472 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,600 as much as makes sense, or we're deprovisioning accounts 473 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,960 within what we said was a policy, we will turn off 474 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,500 accounts within 24 hours of notice, eight hours of 475 00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:02,520 notice immediately. Are you actually doing that for 476 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,280 the automated ones? Yes. Because it's programmatic 477 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,700 for the manual ones, theoretically, right? Those 478 00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:11,020 probably go into a ticket queue. Does 479 00:21:11,020 --> 00:21:12,800 someone get paged in the middle of the night to 480 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,180 say, oh, Jeff's gone. I've shut down his account and 481 00:21:16,180 --> 00:21:17,360 make sure that he doesn't have access over the 482 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:20,300 weekend, right? Things like that. Yeah. 483 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,520 So in my mind, one of the things you can do with 484 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,179 metrics is show how you're improving over time. And 485 00:21:28,179 --> 00:21:31,240 so I think that one potentially could show 486 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,800 improvement over time. But here's what I don't want 487 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,520 to do, which is, all right, right now I'm at 488 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,840 two minutes to provision everything I provision. Now, 489 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,520 I'm thinking about like bringing these other apps 490 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,480 into my scope, they're going to have to be 491 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,760 manually provisioned. That's going to screw my metrics. 492 00:21:52,300 --> 00:21:53,960 Maybe I'll just like say they're 493 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,680 not, I'm not going to do that, or I'm going to do 494 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,840 one at a time so it doesn't affect my metrics 495 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,000 too much. So are any of us that 496 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,500 devious? No, of course not. But 497 00:22:04,500 --> 00:22:09,880 it's like a, the motivation is a negative motivation to 498 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,800 doing it. Well, if you're working in a 499 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,900 large call center, ticket resolution time is a metric 500 00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:16,160 that staff gets measured by. I 501 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,000 know because I got measured by it when I was in the 502 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,840 call center. So that's why I background was 503 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,580 how long did it take you to do it? That 504 00:22:22,580 --> 00:22:24,360 can be a negative, right? Cause 505 00:22:24,368 --> 00:22:27,760 you're now motivated to hang up the phone and that 506 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,740 call. Get the person to agree that 507 00:22:29,740 --> 00:22:32,600 they, you know, I can't help you. Can 508 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,360 we hang up the call? Like, all right. What 509 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:39,560 really matters is was the person's issue resolved to 510 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,780 their satisfaction. Now you could just kick them 511 00:22:41,780 --> 00:22:45,060 out to some kind of survey, but however you 512 00:22:45,060 --> 00:22:47,980 wind up gathering that metric, I think when it 513 00:22:47,980 --> 00:22:52,880 comes to provisioning or onboarding or and it takes 514 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,120 two days or three days, if you go from three days to 515 00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:57,860 two days, yeah, that sounds better, but if the person 516 00:22:57,860 --> 00:23:01,840 feels like in the three day scenario, they knew 517 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,140 what was going on and like, they're getting 518 00:23:04,140 --> 00:23:08,000 constant updates versus the two day scenario where, you 519 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,700 know, they weren't getting updates or they just felt 520 00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:14,960 like nobody cared. You know, then your customer 521 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,280 satisfaction score is going to be potentially worse 522 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,260 than in a two day scenario. I 523 00:23:19,260 --> 00:23:21,080 mean, it's all about customer satisfaction when 524 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:22,800 it comes to something like this. Well, 525 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,880 that's why most taking systems have a stat, have 526 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,140 different statuses of resolved versus closed 527 00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:31,420 resolved means we think the problem is resolved. And 528 00:23:31,428 --> 00:23:34,440 you have X number of days or hours or whatever it is 529 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,520 to reopen that ticket and say, no, this is not 530 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,160 resolved, whatever troubleshooting or whatever 531 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,940 thing you did did not work, right? Or 532 00:23:41,940 --> 00:23:44,100 in this case, the access provided is still not in 533 00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:46,400 place or isn't working correctly. You 534 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,300 can reopen the ticket. So ideally you would measure 535 00:23:49,300 --> 00:23:52,180 the final status, which is closed. Now, 536 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,560 if I think I've done the work correctly, you know, 537 00:23:55,660 --> 00:23:58,340 and I mark it as resolved and no one tells me that 538 00:23:58,340 --> 00:24:00,560 something's not right or not working, I'm going to 539 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,960 assume it's correct. So you could measure, you 540 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,960 know, how many tickets were, you know, marked as 541 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,080 closed and shouldn't have been, but then how do you 542 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,940 kind of match a new ticket to the old ticket because 543 00:24:10,940 --> 00:24:14,640 you don't really want to reopen a closed ticket, be 544 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,720 able to measure that time. So 545 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,500 it gets a little bit sticky within that regards, 546 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,920 but I still think it's a valid metric just to be 547 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,500 able to articulate how much time do we spend in 548 00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:25,100 identity and access management. If 549 00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:28,200 you had to sit down and like track, you know, like 550 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,140 a consultant, let's say, Jim, like, you know, how 551 00:24:30,140 --> 00:24:32,940 many hours or days or minutes do we spend on 552 00:24:32,940 --> 00:24:34,080 each task? And if you're out there in the 553 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,940 real world, you know, doing identity stuff, track it 554 00:24:36,940 --> 00:24:38,340 for one day. And I think you'd be shocked 555 00:24:38,340 --> 00:24:41,280 on how much time you're spending on each individual 556 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:42,420 task. It probably adds up quite a 557 00:24:42,420 --> 00:24:43,340 bit. It's like people have full -time 558 00:24:43,340 --> 00:24:46,880 jobs on this. I kind of think that you 559 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,500 need to incentivize the right behavior. And 560 00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:52,440 if what you're incentivizing is potentially shortcuts or 561 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,920 if you're trying to get off the phone, I think 562 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,280 we've all been on the receiving end of that. Your 563 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,980 customer satisfaction, your satisfaction level goes 564 00:25:00,980 --> 00:25:03,200 down. And really that's what you're 565 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,520 driving for is, you know, and a lot of organizations 566 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,840 say, Hey, we're going to outsource this part of our 567 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,100 organization. Maybe it's the help desk, for 568 00:25:13,100 --> 00:25:16,100 example. And then the help desk is kept 569 00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:19,340 to like, if you don't end the calls on average, time 570 00:25:19,340 --> 00:25:22,800 of 10 minutes, then you're going to lose 20 % of your 571 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,040 money. So then the manager within 572 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,180 that call center is like, close those darn calls. And 573 00:25:28,180 --> 00:25:29,900 if you have to like provision part of the 574 00:25:29,900 --> 00:25:33,260 access because you don't know what the full access 575 00:25:33,260 --> 00:25:36,340 is, provision part of the access and close it. Now, 576 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,460 the customer is going to be like, okay, I still, 577 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,020 yeah, you closed my ticket, but I still don't have the 578 00:25:41,020 --> 00:25:44,740 access I need. That's a huge fail. So 579 00:25:44,740 --> 00:25:47,020 it's all about incentivizing the right behavior, just 580 00:25:47,020 --> 00:25:49,260 like bonuses. When you pay bonuses to people, 581 00:25:49,460 --> 00:25:52,440 it should be because we're doing the behavior that you 582 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,620 want them to do, not just that, you know, we're doing 583 00:25:55,620 --> 00:25:58,340 extra. The extra might not be helpful. 584 00:25:59,220 --> 00:26:00,240 All right, we're never going to 585 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:01,220 get through this entire list. And 586 00:26:01,220 --> 00:26:04,060 in one show, if we spend 10 hours at each point. 587 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,080 One question, everybody. So 588 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,480 not one question, one question, one point. Yeah, 589 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:10,740 right. So let me move on. All 590 00:26:10,748 --> 00:26:11,960 right. The second one is privileged 591 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,320 account activity. I'm going to read this one 592 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,080 out. Monitor's the use of accounts with 593 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,260 elevated permissions, Ergo administrators. This 594 00:26:21,260 --> 00:26:25,680 is vital in detecting potential misuse or breaches 595 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,780 targeting sensitive data. Personally, 596 00:26:29,860 --> 00:26:33,260 opinion like big red X, this is not, this is not 597 00:26:33,260 --> 00:26:37,480 a top I am metric to track. Not 598 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,240 tracking privileged account activity. It's 599 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,920 not a metric. What's the metric? How 600 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,100 many times you're like, how many admins do you have? 601 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,040 How long were sessions, 602 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,060 privileged sessions running? Okay. 603 00:26:52,120 --> 00:26:56,080 How many admins you have potentially, but if you go 604 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:03,580 from 70 privilege admins to 71 or 75, like, are you 605 00:27:03,580 --> 00:27:07,540 doing things poorly? Or if you go from 70 to 65, 606 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,340 are you doing things well? I 607 00:27:09,340 --> 00:27:12,960 don't know that that adds up to me. That's 608 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,340 not a good metric. This is how people gain access 609 00:27:15,340 --> 00:27:17,220 to systems as they elevate, right? Up 610 00:27:17,220 --> 00:27:19,080 and over. So let's say you're a small 611 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,840 organization and you have 10 domain administrators, 612 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,820 even that might be actually might be too many for, for 613 00:27:24,820 --> 00:27:27,000 even a large company. Let's say you have five domain 614 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,440 administrators and you have a learning set up to say, 615 00:27:29,460 --> 00:27:31,360 Hey, if there's any domain, a new domain administrator 616 00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:34,580 account pops up, we have six. That's 617 00:27:34,580 --> 00:27:37,040 immediately a problem because we should only have 618 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,860 five at all times. The keyword used there was 619 00:27:39,860 --> 00:27:42,920 alerting. Absolutely. That, but that's not a 620 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,840 metric to track. To me, a metric to track is 621 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,520 like something that shows progress in one direction 622 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,140 or the other. I, that's why I don't think 623 00:27:52,140 --> 00:27:54,140 that's a good one. Well, the next one failed. 624 00:27:55,020 --> 00:27:57,060 Collect, track and monitor or 625 00:27:57,060 --> 00:28:03,020 monitor for. Or monitor. What 626 00:28:03,020 --> 00:28:04,860 are the top line metrics an organization should 627 00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:06,820 collect, track or monitor for? I 628 00:28:06,820 --> 00:28:08,300 do think you should be monitoring your privileged 629 00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:10,740 access. I think you should know who 630 00:28:10,740 --> 00:28:12,360 is privileged. You should have a count on 631 00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:15,600 that somehow. You should be able to identify 632 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,400 when there is weird behavior taking place, 633 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,860 whether it's session length or maybe it's kilobytes, 634 00:28:22,020 --> 00:28:24,200 megabytes, gigabytes transferred in a session. 635 00:28:24,340 --> 00:28:25,340 What if I'm dumping an S3 636 00:28:25,340 --> 00:28:27,360 bucket through a privileged session that I shouldn't be 637 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:28,700 doing like things like that. Those 638 00:28:28,700 --> 00:28:31,000 are things that I would want to monitor for. I 639 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,540 don't know if I put that in an executive summary 640 00:28:32,540 --> 00:28:35,720 dashboard. And this is, you know, the 641 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,540 wrong format for that, but I do think it's a valuable 642 00:28:37,540 --> 00:28:39,900 metric. Well, you sold me on what you 643 00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:43,020 just said there, but it just feel like you colored 644 00:28:43,020 --> 00:28:45,500 outside the lens a little bit versus like metrics, 645 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,140 but yeah, no, I, I agree with everything you said. I 646 00:28:49,140 --> 00:28:51,940 found log in attempts, I think is a good one, but 647 00:28:51,940 --> 00:28:57,120 I also think it's. So I think so many of them 648 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,040 progress over time. It doesn't even make a sense. 649 00:28:59,220 --> 00:29:01,040 I mean, anybody who has a 650 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,960 Microsoft personal account, go to your Microsoft 651 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,560 personal account and look at your account, log in 652 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,220 attempt history. And I bet you, you will find 653 00:29:09,220 --> 00:29:12,120 thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of 654 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,580 attempts that are just automatically blocked and, 655 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,780 you know, they're just, it's just, you know, 656 00:29:16,860 --> 00:29:18,680 password spray attacks. People 657 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,040 are just trying to get in, you know, brute force, 658 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,360 whatever it may be. And Microsoft just blocks by 659 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:23,500 default. So yeah, this is definitely 660 00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:27,300 not Jeff trying to log in from X country, you know, 661 00:29:27,340 --> 00:29:29,900 48 ,000 times within the last minute, right? Stuff 662 00:29:29,908 --> 00:29:32,300 like that. Yeah. Right. I 663 00:29:32,300 --> 00:29:36,040 agree. Yeah. I know you're right. I 664 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,000 didn't even think of that point, but to me that, 665 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,160 that one's not a good one. A 666 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,820 number of inactive or orphan accounts. Now 667 00:29:42,820 --> 00:29:45,480 this one I like. I like this one too. This 668 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:50,540 is now I, I do think if you're doing identity 669 00:29:50,540 --> 00:29:54,180 governance and you're adding say 10 systems per quarter, 670 00:29:54,180 --> 00:29:57,100 you're going to increase the number of orphan 671 00:29:57,100 --> 00:30:00,700 accounts each quarter when you add those applications. 672 00:30:00,700 --> 00:30:02,600 So you have to understand that 673 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,140 with growth of that platform, you're going to 674 00:30:05,140 --> 00:30:09,820 find more orphans and more inactives, but steady state. 675 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,260 If you can somehow adjust for 676 00:30:12,260 --> 00:30:15,940 that increasing orphaned accounts, increasing inactive 677 00:30:15,940 --> 00:30:19,020 accounts, like that's some, that just shows that's work 678 00:30:19,020 --> 00:30:22,340 that you need to do. And if you can reduce that 679 00:30:22,340 --> 00:30:24,600 number over time and you're keeping your environment 680 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,760 clean. So I think actually that's a 681 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,540 good metric. And then the last one is I am 682 00:30:30,540 --> 00:30:33,660 policy compliance. Absolutely something that should be 683 00:30:33,660 --> 00:30:35,620 tracked. I don't think it's easy to 684 00:30:35,620 --> 00:30:39,940 track within an I am system. I 685 00:30:39,940 --> 00:30:42,780 think there are ways, you know, like that's one of 686 00:30:42,780 --> 00:30:46,840 my big things in life, which is that you're, you 687 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,700 know, the policies that you create are the rules of 688 00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:52,900 the road and whether systems are leveraging your 689 00:30:52,900 --> 00:30:56,100 central I am systems or not, they still need to 690 00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:58,680 apply comply with the policies. You 691 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,860 have to have some way to test the adherence to those 692 00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:05,900 policies or track the adherence at least. But 693 00:31:05,900 --> 00:31:09,580 that's very hard to do with an I am system. Yeah, 694 00:31:09,580 --> 00:31:12,220 that's more like a, I don't know, that's something 695 00:31:12,220 --> 00:31:13,980 I would definitely see a kind of a manual dashboard 696 00:31:13,980 --> 00:31:17,060 somewhere, percentage of applications using single 697 00:31:17,060 --> 00:31:19,980 sign on percentage of applications using MFA, 698 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,500 maybe even, you know, critical apps using MFA, 699 00:31:23,660 --> 00:31:26,700 non -critical apps using a different type of MFA right 700 00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:28,600 over the media. But yeah, that was a little 701 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,040 more wishy washy. I don't know if I would. 702 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,240 It's good to know, is it 703 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,660 executive worthy? Probably not. Unless 704 00:31:35,660 --> 00:31:37,300 there's some sort of risk that you're not able to 705 00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:39,460 get by and for it to say, Hey, we're trying to get 706 00:31:39,460 --> 00:31:42,160 this thing on single sign on. And 707 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,220 XYZ group is really not being a good partner with 708 00:31:44,220 --> 00:31:46,080 us to help that happen. Exactly. 709 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,880 If that's a major issue that you're trying to 710 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,340 resolve is that, Hey, we're putting out these policies 711 00:31:51,340 --> 00:31:55,000 and various businesses are taking them seriously. They 712 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,220 don't think they apply to them. And 713 00:31:57,220 --> 00:32:01,100 you can say, Hey, within this business unit, 50 % of 714 00:32:01,100 --> 00:32:05,360 the applications are not compliant with our SSO, our 715 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:10,300 password policy or whatever, any of the policies, then 716 00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:13,840 you can start to bring light, shine light on the 717 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,880 darkness. Okay. Okay. Not 718 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,840 bad. If you had to give us a 719 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,000 score from zero to 100, Hunter being perfect. It 720 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,320 just replicated the mind of Jim McDonald, which is a 721 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,160 scary thought. And zero, meaning you're 722 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,440 probably safe from any sort of replacement Jim. How 723 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:38,160 do you would you score this one? I 724 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:42,760 think I'm going to get this like a 50%. That's 725 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,780 what I was thinking. I would be real embarrassed 726 00:32:44,780 --> 00:32:48,940 to just highlight those, paste it into a deck and 727 00:32:48,940 --> 00:32:52,780 then show it to executives because they started picking 728 00:32:52,780 --> 00:32:54,460 on you with questions. You're, 729 00:32:54,460 --> 00:32:56,540 you're going to be exposed. Yeah. 730 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,180 You have to know your content. I 731 00:32:58,180 --> 00:33:00,160 think I think it's good for us for a starter, but 732 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,340 yeah, I was thinking this is about halfway there. 733 00:33:02,700 --> 00:33:03,380 Good start. It's 734 00:33:03,380 --> 00:33:04,540 good to writing prompts. Okay. 735 00:33:04,580 --> 00:33:07,840 Now let me start thinking about why these matter or 736 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,300 why do these answers make sense versus just here's 737 00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:13,720 information. Okay. Right on. Who 738 00:33:13,728 --> 00:33:14,480 cares? Like what are you trying to do 739 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:15,240 with it? All right. Do 740 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,300 you want to read the next one from Maria in Spain? 741 00:33:18,220 --> 00:33:19,420 Yeah. What are the biggest 742 00:33:19,420 --> 00:33:22,140 challenges when it comes to implementing a successful 743 00:33:22,140 --> 00:33:26,580 IAM strategy in a large multinational company, give 744 00:33:26,580 --> 00:33:30,260 this an executive summary format with no more than 745 00:33:30,260 --> 00:33:33,300 five points. By the way, that less sentence 746 00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:35,900 is something that, that Jeff had, right? Yes. 747 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:37,860 Yeah. All these, I, I had to give 748 00:33:37,860 --> 00:33:40,140 this an executive summary format, no five, no more 749 00:33:40,140 --> 00:33:43,320 than five points just to have it be something. None 750 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,280 of our mail bag questions came in with that. It's 751 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:47,800 right. Yeah. Uh, although I would be 752 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,640 impressed if somebody did that. Um, 753 00:33:50,180 --> 00:33:52,960 so I started a new chat also just so it wouldn't 754 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,080 get confused with a prior question. So 755 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:56,280 that's probably a good thing for if you're 756 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,100 switching topics is to start fresh every time. 757 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,220 Yeah. So biggest challenge is 758 00:34:01,220 --> 00:34:02,380 when it comes to implementing a successful 759 00:34:02,380 --> 00:34:05,699 IAM strategy in a large multinational company. So 760 00:34:05,699 --> 00:34:07,760 it looks like it's got the five here. Key 761 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,000 challenges, global regulatory complexity. That's 762 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,040 number one. System integration and legacy 763 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:14,980 infrastructure. Number two. Number 764 00:34:14,980 --> 00:34:17,320 three is managing decentralized identities. 765 00:34:17,739 --> 00:34:19,639 Number four, achieving cross 766 00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:22,840 departmental buy -in and number five, balancing user 767 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,440 experience and security. What 768 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,880 do you think, Jim? Really good. Um, 769 00:34:31,179 --> 00:34:33,520 I mean, sitting here looking at the first three, 770 00:34:33,580 --> 00:34:35,580 I'm like really impressed. So 771 00:34:35,580 --> 00:34:37,320 I did get hung up a little bit on the third 772 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,800 one, because when I saw managing decentralized 773 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,120 identity, we're not talking about like, um, self 774 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,179 -sovereign identity or verifiable credentials. What 775 00:34:47,187 --> 00:34:51,139 we're talking about is when an organization says, you 776 00:34:51,139 --> 00:34:53,239 know, we're not going to have just one central 777 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,239 approach to manage all the identities in one place for 778 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,020 enterprise, all the active directories that exists from 779 00:34:59,020 --> 00:35:01,900 all the companies and all the octa universal 780 00:35:01,900 --> 00:35:05,040 directories and ping directories and LDAPs and 781 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,820 databases. Identities are spread everywhere. And 782 00:35:08,820 --> 00:35:10,860 it might even be managed by different teams and 783 00:35:10,860 --> 00:35:13,300 different, you know, systems and different rules and all 784 00:35:13,300 --> 00:35:16,180 kinds of stuff. Yeah. So just looking at the 785 00:35:16,180 --> 00:35:18,840 first one, global regulatory compliance. Is 786 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,520 this one of those no particular order? Because 787 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,160 I think that is one of the toughest ones for, uh, 788 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,600 I am practitioners like you and I is that, um, you 789 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,940 know, the, these talk about things like GDPR, CCPA 790 00:35:33,940 --> 00:35:37,300 areas that I'm not an expert in. We 791 00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:40,880 have to go as practitioners and pull in the experts 792 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:45,100 and really get guidance in terms of, you know, do we 793 00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:48,600 have to maintain identities in countries or certain 794 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,960 countries where you do and the privacy of a person's 795 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,140 data, you just can't take some of those things for 796 00:35:55,140 --> 00:35:57,240 granted. It doesn't all work the way 797 00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:00,080 it works in your country and other places throughout 798 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,000 the world. So I know I learned a lot 799 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,640 about that. Um, when I was, you know, 800 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,600 earlier in my identity career and working with 801 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,120 groups in Western Europe, like for example, Germany 802 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:19,480 and France had very strict privacy laws in terms of 803 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,020 you actually couldn't take some of that identity data 804 00:36:23,020 --> 00:36:27,400 from their HR system, for example, and move it into 805 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,700 systems in the United States. And 806 00:36:30,700 --> 00:36:32,700 you actually couldn't even ask for some of the 807 00:36:32,700 --> 00:36:36,880 information, right? It was like, they had like, I 808 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,820 forget what the workers' councils, I think, is what 809 00:36:38,820 --> 00:36:39,900 they called them in Germany. It's 810 00:36:39,900 --> 00:36:43,680 kind of like a union where like you could only ask 811 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,060 certain types of questions, only collect certain types 812 00:36:46,060 --> 00:36:48,480 of data. So I think this is actually 813 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,960 like a very important topic. What 814 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,700 do you think? No, I think it's, it's a 815 00:36:52,700 --> 00:36:54,620 reality, right? And the world we live in is 816 00:36:54,620 --> 00:36:57,440 data sovereignty, sovereignty, or whatever the 817 00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,500 word is, where, you know, where does it stay? And 818 00:36:59,500 --> 00:37:00,960 this might be a reason why you do have to have 819 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,240 multiple active directories, multiple tenants, right? 820 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:04,500 Just to keep data within 821 00:37:04,500 --> 00:37:08,180 specific regions. I mean, you try not to, I 822 00:37:08,180 --> 00:37:09,680 think you look for reasons. Do 823 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,400 you have to do that? First of all, and then if you 824 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:13,940 have to, what are the rules you have to play by? 825 00:37:15,359 --> 00:37:16,580 And, you know, just go from 826 00:37:16,580 --> 00:37:17,960 there. But I think it's a good thing 827 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,460 for a high level discussion and to say, hey, okay, 828 00:37:20,500 --> 00:37:22,800 yeah, we need to think about what are our 829 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,020 regulations? Um, you know, number two is 830 00:37:25,020 --> 00:37:26,860 good too. All the different integrations, 831 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,640 legacy infrastructure. Your answer to the first one 832 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,440 about what regulations may actually answer, what can 833 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,540 you integrate and what needs to stay and, you 834 00:37:36,540 --> 00:37:38,020 know, what can you modernize or do you need 835 00:37:38,020 --> 00:37:38,940 to keep around, right? Things 836 00:37:38,940 --> 00:37:43,860 like that. Yeah. And I don't know if I can 837 00:37:43,860 --> 00:37:50,020 specifically tie this one to identity, except my 838 00:37:50,020 --> 00:37:53,500 experience in working in a large multi -national company 839 00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:56,360 was that there were a lot of legacy systems, 840 00:37:56,540 --> 00:38:00,100 mainframes and old systems that were hard to integrate 841 00:38:00,100 --> 00:38:05,740 to. Um, and I just, I think part 842 00:38:05,740 --> 00:38:08,240 of being part of a large multi -national corporation 843 00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:10,880 is like, that's a fact of life. And 844 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,980 when you have to integrate, I am into those systems, 845 00:38:13,980 --> 00:38:17,820 sometimes it's a very difficult thing to do. Um, 846 00:38:18,580 --> 00:38:21,680 you know, regardless of, if you're talking about 847 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,000 provisioning identities, provisioning passwords, you 848 00:38:26,008 --> 00:38:28,400 know, if you want to use MFA on some of the 849 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,060 systems, it's just, it's not even a possibility. And 850 00:38:32,060 --> 00:38:36,260 so, or, or to do it, you have to like jump through 851 00:38:36,260 --> 00:38:38,560 so many hoops that it becomes a near 852 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:43,440 impossibility. So yeah, that one hits home 853 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,120 for me as well. So then like I said, the next 854 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,680 one was managing decentralized identities and 855 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,800 the idea of that it's not all central command and 856 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,040 control, usually large multi -nationals. Um, 857 00:38:56,980 --> 00:39:00,560 and I've seen some of that break down over time, you 858 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,000 know, in my, my consulting career is going into large 859 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,420 multi -nationals where they have made the move to one 860 00:39:08,420 --> 00:39:10,480 active directory for us. And 861 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,600 that is a great indication that they're saying, look, 862 00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:18,660 even though we have to have some level of division 863 00:39:18,660 --> 00:39:21,560 of autonomy, you know, put some autonomy in various 864 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,400 places, some of the enterprise services just 865 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,740 doesn't make sense to completely delegate control, 866 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,680 administrative control at that level. So 867 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,440 it's finding the right level. Each 868 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,700 organization tries to figure that out for themselves. It 869 00:39:37,700 --> 00:39:40,320 used to, a lot of it used to be driven by, you know, 870 00:39:40,340 --> 00:39:43,780 the speed of networks from continent to continent. Uh, 871 00:39:43,860 --> 00:39:47,040 I don't think that's as much the case anymore, but 872 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,900 I do think language time zone and just the fact of, 873 00:39:51,900 --> 00:39:55,360 well, you just like, right? Things 874 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,200 like that. And the way that different 875 00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,900 countries in the world approach different things. I 876 00:39:59,900 --> 00:40:01,880 think it ties in with number four a little bit, 877 00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:05,220 which was achieving cross -departmental buy -in. If 878 00:40:05,220 --> 00:40:08,000 you don't have cross -departmental buy -in, or 879 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,380 even this case may cross -country buy -in, how are 880 00:40:10,380 --> 00:40:12,180 you even going to try and figure out how to manage 881 00:40:12,180 --> 00:40:15,720 all those decentralized accounts, identities, teams, 882 00:40:15,940 --> 00:40:17,500 right? Et cetera. I 883 00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:19,300 think there is, you know, that's, I think that's, I 884 00:40:19,300 --> 00:40:22,860 think that's actually pretty good insight for an AI to 885 00:40:22,860 --> 00:40:25,140 answer with that here. Achieving 886 00:40:25,140 --> 00:40:27,400 cross -departmental buy -in is not a technical thing. 887 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:29,500 It is more of a psychological 888 00:40:29,500 --> 00:40:30,880 thing, right? How are we going to convince 889 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:35,280 Jim sitting in Germany to adopt the way of Jeff 890 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,520 sitting in, I don't know, Italy? Right? 891 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,440 Is, are there things that are lining up like teeth 892 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:42,880 where it's like, okay, yeah, it makes sense, like 893 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,360 from a gear perspective, there might be missing, you 894 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,840 know, links as well. How do we make that work? I 895 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,580 think it's actually pretty insightful for an AI to 896 00:40:49,580 --> 00:40:50,920 include that as part of the answer. So 897 00:40:50,928 --> 00:40:54,180 I'm somewhat impressed by that. Yeah, 898 00:40:54,260 --> 00:40:57,700 I think that's an excellent point. I 899 00:40:57,700 --> 00:41:00,180 think at the most basic level, you've got 900 00:41:00,180 --> 00:41:03,020 information security policy. It 901 00:41:03,020 --> 00:41:06,980 has to respect local regulations and local laws 902 00:41:06,980 --> 00:41:11,680 and cultures and customs. But 903 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,820 I think that's the underlying is like, if you 904 00:41:13,820 --> 00:41:18,020 can get a common policy that applies across the 905 00:41:18,020 --> 00:41:22,920 organization, and then I think it starts going layer 906 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,840 by layer into the technology, and that's where 907 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:32,340 you can start to run into more of the pushback. I 908 00:41:32,340 --> 00:41:37,720 found it's very hard to drive major technology gains 909 00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:43,280 across the globe without support from the top. If 910 00:41:43,288 --> 00:41:45,020 you're doing, trying to do things always at a 911 00:41:45,020 --> 00:41:48,480 grassroots level, and trying to make major changes 912 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,760 across the board, you're going to face a lot of 913 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,820 resistance. You need support from the top. 914 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:56,140 And usually it's got to like, 915 00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:00,720 say, for example, the CIO gets behind. And 916 00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:02,840 it's security initiative like having one active 917 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,400 director. If you have an organization, 918 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,300 there are 50 active directories and business 919 00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:11,460 units and geographies have their own, you know, trying 920 00:42:11,460 --> 00:42:13,700 to be the active director team and corporate and say, 921 00:42:13,740 --> 00:42:16,460 Hey, why don't we make this one big active 922 00:42:16,460 --> 00:42:19,080 directory, show me five thumbs. The 923 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,240 CEO has to get behind it. And 924 00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:25,460 the CEO has to know he has the back of the CEO. 925 00:42:25,460 --> 00:42:28,560 In my experience, that's kind 926 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,080 of what is required for driving it. I 927 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:32,420 think there's one exception. I 928 00:42:32,420 --> 00:42:36,120 think there might be a scenario where it might be 929 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,700 a global organization, but the vast amount of revenue 930 00:42:40,700 --> 00:42:44,780 is driven by one business area that can really, you 931 00:42:44,780 --> 00:42:46,760 know, impose its will on the rest of the company, 932 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,020 because people are very upset to rock the 933 00:42:49,020 --> 00:42:51,700 moneymaker. So it could be a situation 934 00:42:51,700 --> 00:42:55,020 where, you know, you really need to be thinking about 935 00:42:55,020 --> 00:42:58,140 what are the financial impacts, where is the money 936 00:42:58,140 --> 00:43:00,120 being made? Chances are that's one thing you 937 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,120 want to think about is you need the moneymakers on 938 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:04,960 board with whatever strategy is that you're trying to 939 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:09,680 adopt. Yeah, excellent point. The 940 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,820 last one is probably just as good as the rest. Like 941 00:43:12,828 --> 00:43:14,220 I. It's not what you're doing 942 00:43:14,220 --> 00:43:16,300 though. User experience and security. I'm 943 00:43:16,300 --> 00:43:18,900 like, OK. You did ask for an executive 944 00:43:18,900 --> 00:43:21,220 summary. So the being fair, I think 945 00:43:21,220 --> 00:43:23,140 that's a very good one. And 946 00:43:23,140 --> 00:43:25,260 this is the lifelong battle. And 947 00:43:25,260 --> 00:43:29,060 we would love to say, OK, if I do two security keys 948 00:43:29,060 --> 00:43:35,040 or five to two. Help me out here. But 949 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:35,760 I don't know what you're going. I 950 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,760 don't know where you're going with it. Like 951 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,660 pass keys. Pass keys. OK, 952 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,800 thank you. Had a little brainstorm there. 953 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:43,960 It's Friday night. One 954 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,320 of the few security tools out there where you get an 955 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,820 improvement in both because everybody hates dealing with 956 00:43:51,820 --> 00:43:56,120 usernames passwords and, you know, getting to possession 957 00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,800 based authentication, like having control of your 958 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,940 device and then having a device ecosystem where you 959 00:44:02,940 --> 00:44:04,640 just get away from passwords. All 960 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,100 that's great. But usually when you're 961 00:44:07,100 --> 00:44:11,400 deploying. And. Cyber security system of 962 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,840 some sort. It. Has the negative if it is 963 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,460 improving security, it's having a negative impact on 964 00:44:18,460 --> 00:44:22,240 user experience like we talk about DLP all day. To 965 00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:24,760 get should be improving security. It's 966 00:44:24,768 --> 00:44:27,820 making it harder to exotrate information from 967 00:44:27,820 --> 00:44:30,520 the organization. But whoever sat there in their 968 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,080 desk is like, that DLP is blocking me from copying my 969 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,360 files to the jump drive. I love this thing. No 970 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,200 one, no one's ever said that. Yeah. 971 00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:41,940 All right. Well, that was a very long way 972 00:44:41,940 --> 00:44:43,720 to just say, yes, consider user experience and 973 00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:46,720 security. Yeah. Well, that's part of the 974 00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:48,580 show. We're almost 45 minutes. Do 975 00:44:48,580 --> 00:44:51,040 I do one more? Should we get one more? We 976 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:52,660 can only do one more. All right. Carlos 977 00:44:52,660 --> 00:44:54,140 from Brazil. Go ahead and read it while I 978 00:44:54,140 --> 00:44:57,700 set this up. What are some trends in I am 979 00:44:57,700 --> 00:45:01,600 that you think will become more important in the near 980 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,360 future? I'm trying to stay ahead of 981 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,280 the curve in my industry. Executive 982 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,760 summary format with no more than five points. All 983 00:45:10,768 --> 00:45:13,480 right. Survey says zero trust. OK, 984 00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:15,960 I guess I don't that's future, but more like 985 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,420 current. AI and behavior analytics, of 986 00:45:18,420 --> 00:45:21,600 course, is going to say AI is important. Cloud 987 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:22,720 centric. I am. OK, 988 00:45:22,820 --> 00:45:25,120 I feel like that's kind of where we're at right now. 989 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,700 Prioritizing user centricity and number 990 00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:32,660 five, identity governance becomes essential. So 991 00:45:32,660 --> 00:45:35,480 my first question to you, Jim, of these five, zero 992 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,840 trust, AI and behavior analytics, cloud centric, I 993 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,260 am a prioritized user centricity and identity 994 00:45:42,260 --> 00:45:44,940 governance being essential. Do 995 00:45:44,940 --> 00:45:50,600 you think these are near future from a trend 996 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,500 perspective? Because that's the question. I 997 00:45:53,500 --> 00:45:56,340 can't take my eye off. I can't take my eye off the 998 00:45:56,340 --> 00:45:58,820 last one. Identity governance is becomes 999 00:45:58,820 --> 00:46:02,020 essential in the near future. Ten 1000 00:46:02,020 --> 00:46:06,120 years ago, maybe. Exactly. Like running water in your 1001 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,800 house is going to become folks. That's 1002 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,940 the trend now. Well, let's play. Let's 1003 00:46:10,940 --> 00:46:13,740 play devil's advocate, right? Could 1004 00:46:13,740 --> 00:46:16,560 you have gotten away with manual processes ten years 1005 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,580 ago if you're, you know, let's say you're not a 1006 00:46:20,580 --> 00:46:25,000 super complex organization that has multinational 1007 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,080 implications? Yeah, you probably could have 1008 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,160 gotten away with it. Is there a better way? Sure. 1009 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,440 But are we at the point where IGA essentially is 1010 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,840 mandatory to even be considered doing OK at 1011 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,860 identity? Here's the thing, Jeff. You 1012 00:46:42,860 --> 00:46:46,520 can't take time off of investing in technology and 1013 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,920 information security. If you're ten years ago and 1014 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,280 you're like, hey, we're doing manual processes. We 1015 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,480 have 5 ,000 users. We just got, you know, these 1016 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,140 folks who they just take care of it. Where 1017 00:46:59,140 --> 00:47:01,300 do you think you are now? You're 1018 00:47:01,300 --> 00:47:02,980 probably way behind the curve. You're 1019 00:47:02,980 --> 00:47:06,400 probably like, you know, getting breached and stuff 1020 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,820 like that. You can't take a vacation from 1021 00:47:08,820 --> 00:47:11,260 investing. I'm not saying I agree. I'm 1022 00:47:11,260 --> 00:47:14,860 just trying to play AI advocate here. I'm 1023 00:47:14,860 --> 00:47:16,900 trying to think really hard because budgets are tough. 1024 00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:19,800 And if you have magic IAM 1025 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,520 people, IAM heroes, as we like to say, running around 1026 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,460 behind the scenes, just making it work and the 1027 00:47:25,460 --> 00:47:28,080 organization doesn't feel the pain of not having, 1028 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,960 you know, modern tools, let's say. Could 1029 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,000 you have gotten away with it? I 1030 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:34,620 would argue, yes, it happens. It 1031 00:47:34,620 --> 00:47:36,360 still happens today, right? But 1032 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,540 should you get away, Jeff, you can get away without 1033 00:47:39,540 --> 00:47:45,200 buying life insurance. But if you die, then your 1034 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:46,820 family will have no money. Well, 1035 00:47:46,860 --> 00:47:50,840 that's their problem, not mine. If 1036 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:55,000 you own your car outright, you can maybe not have 1037 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,240 comp and collision. And then you hit a stop sign. 1038 00:47:59,540 --> 00:48:00,820 Stop sign jumps out in the 1039 00:48:00,820 --> 00:48:03,040 middle of the road and you hit it. And 1040 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,780 now you've got a busted of car. And 1041 00:48:05,780 --> 00:48:06,840 that's what's happening. Like 1042 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,400 companies are getting breached. If 1043 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,180 they knew what they need to do, they would have 1044 00:48:12,180 --> 00:48:15,640 obviously done it to prevent the breach. But 1045 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,800 under investing for years, like you're just passing, 1046 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,340 you're just kicking the can and then the next leader 1047 00:48:22,340 --> 00:48:26,100 is going to, I don't know, I can't get out of that 1048 00:48:26,100 --> 00:48:29,900 mode on that question. So look, I'm just trying to 1049 00:48:29,900 --> 00:48:33,400 be the other side of the coin. I 1050 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,820 think, I agree with this. And 1051 00:48:35,828 --> 00:48:39,560 that's only because really, IGA within the last 10 1052 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:43,040 years has been solved for the most part. It's 1053 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,140 a mature space. Gartner doesn't do magic quadrants 1054 00:48:46,140 --> 00:48:47,880 on it for the last, what, four years, five years 1055 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,200 since 2019, I think. To me, that tells me it's 1056 00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,400 done. And so within the last five 1057 00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,320 years, there really isn't an excuse to say, oh, we 1058 00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,360 can't do IGA. There are plenty of price points, 1059 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,680 you know, options for this space. It's 1060 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:02,660 somewhat commoditized. There's 1061 00:49:02,660 --> 00:49:03,820 always new ones coming up, right? We've 1062 00:49:03,820 --> 00:49:05,300 had some of them on our show that are really good 1063 00:49:05,300 --> 00:49:07,500 as well. But I feel like this is an 1064 00:49:07,500 --> 00:49:09,640 area where if you're really going to do identity and 1065 00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,100 access management as a program, you need to be 1066 00:49:13,100 --> 00:49:16,860 doing some form of IGA identity governance. You 1067 00:49:16,860 --> 00:49:19,580 know who has access to what and you know why they 1068 00:49:19,580 --> 00:49:22,220 have the access and whether it's appropriate. That's 1069 00:49:22,220 --> 00:49:26,400 it. Yeah. I think you, okay. So 1070 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,580 going through the list again, zero trust takes 1071 00:49:28,580 --> 00:49:30,280 center stage. I think you can still make 1072 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:34,640 the argument that it's still on the way up. AI 1073 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,660 and behavior analytics. To me, that's like, that's a 1074 00:49:37,660 --> 00:49:39,220 pure winner right there. I mean, listen to the show, 1075 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,500 right? We're using it. It's 1076 00:49:41,500 --> 00:49:45,420 the best one. Cloud -centric IAM, I think you 1077 00:49:45,420 --> 00:49:48,160 can make the argument that that's still growing. Team, 1078 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:54,000 team, CIM. Yeah, I mean, well, just even 1079 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:58,180 the idea of like, even organizations that I've 1080 00:49:58,180 --> 00:50:00,920 worked with that are doing a very excellent job in 1081 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,300 the cloud can still do better. Prioritizing 1082 00:50:04,300 --> 00:50:07,540 users, centricity. How can you argue with that 1083 00:50:07,540 --> 00:50:09,220 one? It's kind of like, you remind 1084 00:50:09,220 --> 00:50:12,100 yourself, be a good person, be a good person, right? 1085 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:13,720 Even if you are a good person, 1086 00:50:13,780 --> 00:50:16,820 generally, you just have to keep reminding yourself, be 1087 00:50:16,820 --> 00:50:18,860 a good person. But when it comes to identity 1088 00:50:18,860 --> 00:50:21,700 governance, becomes essential. I'm 1089 00:50:21,700 --> 00:50:25,180 not buying on that. I want that old hat. That 1090 00:50:25,187 --> 00:50:28,760 should have been, but for you individually, if you're 1091 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,200 not doing it or you're underinvested in that area 1092 00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,220 and you just know you're not doing a good job with 1093 00:50:33,220 --> 00:50:36,880 it, do a good job. Okay. Well, I disagree. I 1094 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,880 think it is mandatory or let's just say, I think 1095 00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,200 it's essential now. I think there were, I think 1096 00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,100 there were arguments to be made that it wasn't 1097 00:50:45,100 --> 00:50:50,500 necessarily as essential 10 years ago with some very 1098 00:50:50,500 --> 00:50:52,940 big asterisks next to it. It's 1099 00:50:52,940 --> 00:50:55,040 not like, finance regulatory reasons, right? Things 1100 00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,800 like that. But I think as identity becomes 1101 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,300 much more the new perimeter, it's at the 1102 00:51:00,300 --> 00:51:02,640 center, right? It's the name of a podcast. You 1103 00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,200 have to have governance around that. You 1104 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:06,440 have to have things like single sign on. You 1105 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:07,920 have to have MFA. You have to know that kind of 1106 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:09,700 thing. So I'm going to, I'm, this is 1107 00:51:09,700 --> 00:51:12,040 a hill I'm around. You can't say you disagree. You 1108 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,900 said, identity governance is essential now. But 1109 00:51:15,900 --> 00:51:17,000 that's not what it says. It 1110 00:51:17,008 --> 00:51:19,720 says identity governance becomes essential. Meaning 1111 00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:22,400 it's not essential now. It will become essential. 1112 00:51:22,980 --> 00:51:25,280 That's not true. Well, 1113 00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,080 I think it's based on the maturity organization, the 1114 00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,260 sizing industry. So let's read the rest of it. 1115 00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:31,320 So identity governance becomes 1116 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,360 essential as organizations sprawl keeping track of who 1117 00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:36,600 has access to what becomes difficult. I 1118 00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:38,340 would agree with that. Identity 1119 00:51:38,340 --> 00:51:40,700 governance tools will gain priority allowing you to 1120 00:51:40,700 --> 00:51:42,960 visualize and manage access rights and enforce lease 1121 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,700 privilege. Right? I don't, you know, that's 1122 00:51:45,700 --> 00:51:47,900 a little bit too floaty for me at the end there. 1123 00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,900 But the idea of you do need 1124 00:51:50,900 --> 00:51:52,840 to know who has access to what the larger your 1125 00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,380 organization and as the organization sprawl. Yeah, 1126 00:51:55,420 --> 00:51:57,320 I would agree with that. You'd 1127 00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,520 need automation too. Otherwise 1128 00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,180 it becomes. I kind of want that. You 1129 00:52:02,180 --> 00:52:06,360 do as much as you can with the people you have. 1130 00:52:06,759 --> 00:52:08,180 I did want to bring up AI 1131 00:52:08,180 --> 00:52:10,460 and behavior analytics because it's on the 1132 00:52:10,460 --> 00:52:15,880 interday jobs we work for RSM and one of our peers 1133 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,800 put on a presentation about AI governance. Was 1134 00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:21,640 that Dave Mahoney, the man? Dave 1135 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:22,920 Mahoney? Were you on that? No, 1136 00:52:22,940 --> 00:52:23,740 I wasn't able to catch that. I 1137 00:52:23,747 --> 00:52:25,140 got to watch for replay on it because I was in middle 1138 00:52:25,140 --> 00:52:27,360 of another meeting. But yeah, Dave's the man. So 1139 00:52:27,368 --> 00:52:29,740 Dave, you're listening. I'm looking forward to see what 1140 00:52:29,740 --> 00:52:31,920 you put out there. But Jim, go for it. No, 1141 00:52:31,980 --> 00:52:34,660 it was really good. So, um, he's talking about 1142 00:52:34,660 --> 00:52:37,020 like, you know, companies really need to have, you 1143 00:52:37,020 --> 00:52:39,880 know, starting point is you have to have a policy 1144 00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:43,020 around AI. And I asked the question like, 1145 00:52:43,100 --> 00:52:46,000 what are, there's so many use cases for AI, right? 1146 00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,760 There's AI in products that you 1147 00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,060 buy. So let's say you buy an IM 1148 00:52:52,060 --> 00:52:57,080 system and it's got AI or N number of tech systems. 1149 00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:58,940 It's got AI, right? Maybe 1150 00:52:58,940 --> 00:53:01,400 it really has AI or maybe they're calling it AI 1151 00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,100 either way. You know, you start plugging 1152 00:53:04,100 --> 00:53:07,380 information into it. You should know, I think, 1153 00:53:07,580 --> 00:53:09,440 what's happening with it. Other 1154 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,860 use case for AI is people doing like what we're 1155 00:53:12,860 --> 00:53:14,200 doing. You're typing a bunch of 1156 00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,000 information into an AI prompt. What's 1157 00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:18,540 happening with that information? Does 1158 00:53:18,540 --> 00:53:22,020 your company trust or want your employees doing that 1159 00:53:22,020 --> 00:53:24,020 or not? Do you want to put some rules 1160 00:53:24,020 --> 00:53:29,380 around it? Etc. There's, um, you could be 1161 00:53:29,380 --> 00:53:32,840 deploying IT systems that you build your own AI 1162 00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,660 into. Let's say I'm building a website 1163 00:53:35,660 --> 00:53:39,760 for our clients to go to and they can start using a 1164 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,220 chat bot to solve their issues. And 1165 00:53:43,220 --> 00:53:45,760 I wrote some kind of AI formula or maybe I use 1166 00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,880 some open source AI and you have policy around 1167 00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:52,260 like, you know, who's I have to go through? The 1168 00:53:52,260 --> 00:53:57,520 last use case is let's say we build, build products 1169 00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,120 and we build AI into it. So 1170 00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:03,700 I make smart home sensors and I want to build AI 1171 00:54:03,700 --> 00:54:07,140 into that. You know, you should have 1172 00:54:07,140 --> 00:54:11,540 policy around that. So I just think it's such a 1173 00:54:11,540 --> 00:54:15,480 fascinating area and we're really like, it's just like 1174 00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,420 the cloud actually where I kind of feel like the 1175 00:54:18,420 --> 00:54:21,860 cloud was out there and devs went out and said, 1176 00:54:21,860 --> 00:54:24,380 wow, this is great. We can build these apps and 1177 00:54:24,380 --> 00:54:27,380 then they started building things that went from pre 1178 00:54:27,380 --> 00:54:29,420 production to okay, now we're going to use it for 1179 00:54:29,420 --> 00:54:32,580 production. And then information security 1180 00:54:32,580 --> 00:54:34,220 comes along and you're like, oh, we got to put 1181 00:54:34,220 --> 00:54:36,420 some guardrails on this thing. I 1182 00:54:36,420 --> 00:54:37,920 feel like that's what's going to happen with AI. 1183 00:54:38,180 --> 00:54:39,600 It's like, you know, people are 1184 00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:44,000 using AI every day. People are building AI into their 1185 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:48,140 products, deploying software into their enterprise that 1186 00:54:48,140 --> 00:54:51,740 uses AI. It's about to get an 1187 00:54:51,740 --> 00:54:53,840 interesting. Yeah, I mean, already is, I 1188 00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,020 think, and I think that's, it's a wave that's coming. 1189 00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:58,300 I don't think you can stop 1190 00:54:58,300 --> 00:54:59,980 it. What I think you can do is 1191 00:54:59,980 --> 00:55:03,140 educate about it. Make sure that your, your 1192 00:55:03,140 --> 00:55:06,200 workforce or your users or employees or contractors or 1193 00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,600 whatever, understand the ramifications of how they 1194 00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:10,300 can use it. Yeah, but all the guardrails in 1195 00:55:10,300 --> 00:55:12,280 the world, you want, okay, we can access our computer. 1196 00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:12,900 Guess what? I'll 1197 00:55:12,900 --> 00:55:14,840 put it up on my phone and do it there. There 1198 00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:16,000 are always ways around it. So 1199 00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,400 I think the education is super important right now 1200 00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:21,680 to make people aware of, yeah, if you type in 1201 00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:24,320 people's names into Google and Gemini Advanced, guess 1202 00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:25,560 what? They're in a learning model now 1203 00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:27,320 somewhere. That's why I don't have the names 1204 00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,500 listed here, right? I just still it down to just 1205 00:55:30,500 --> 00:55:33,620 a question and, you know, should be relatively benign, 1206 00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:36,640 but you need to be aware of what's being put into 1207 00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,680 those models. And I think it's important for 1208 00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:43,120 education. Okay, it's Friday night. I'm 1209 00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,340 ready to be done. Should we end on a lighter note? 1210 00:55:46,260 --> 00:55:48,140 I would love to. Okay. 1211 00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,740 Would you rather have the ability to teleport or the 1212 00:55:51,740 --> 00:55:56,860 ability to read minds? I would love to be able to 1213 00:55:56,860 --> 00:55:59,680 read minds, but I'm a little afraid of what would 1214 00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:01,760 happen. Like if I started realizing 1215 00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,080 people. Yeah, what am I thinking right 1216 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,400 now, Jim? Yeah, exactly. Well, 1217 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,540 I'm sure it's not great. And 1218 00:56:08,540 --> 00:56:10,820 so I think I would like it, but I'd like to be 1219 00:56:10,820 --> 00:56:13,660 able to turn it off and on. Teleporting 1220 00:56:13,660 --> 00:56:16,800 would be pretty awesome, man. I 1221 00:56:16,808 --> 00:56:19,780 wonder if you don't get any miles. How 1222 00:56:19,780 --> 00:56:21,500 are you going to get platinum status or diamond 1223 00:56:21,500 --> 00:56:23,540 status with Delta or whoever? If 1224 00:56:23,540 --> 00:56:25,100 you're just teleporting, what's the fun in that? 1225 00:56:25,340 --> 00:56:26,720 Just think about it. You 1226 00:56:26,720 --> 00:56:31,140 would not need miles. Can you imagine a commute? It'd 1227 00:56:31,140 --> 00:56:34,020 be a truly global, you know, thing if we could 1228 00:56:34,020 --> 00:56:37,060 figure out teleportation where, you know, my job is 1229 00:56:37,060 --> 00:56:39,920 in Amsterdam, but I commute from Asheville, North 1230 00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,360 Carolina every morning. So here's a better question. I 1231 00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:48,580 don't think mind reading is likely to. I 1232 00:56:48,580 --> 00:56:51,400 shouldn't say that. Put that aside. Do 1233 00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:54,640 you think that someday humans will figure out how 1234 00:56:54,640 --> 00:57:01,800 to do teleportation? I don't know because I'm not 1235 00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,960 smart enough to know if it's within our 1236 00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,660 understanding of science and physics and all the things 1237 00:57:06,660 --> 00:57:09,180 that could happen. But what I am, and I feel 1238 00:57:09,180 --> 00:57:12,480 like I read something within the last year or so 1239 00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:15,800 that talked about teleporting like a single 1240 00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:17,800 atom. I don't know exactly what it 1241 00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,180 meant. I'm too dumb to even figure 1242 00:57:20,180 --> 00:57:22,100 out what the article is about. So 1243 00:57:22,100 --> 00:57:25,340 I feel like if it's within the realm of possibility, 1244 00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:27,600 eventually we would figure out something like that. 1245 00:57:27,740 --> 00:57:29,340 But if it truly is like an 1246 00:57:29,340 --> 00:57:31,460 unbreakable rule of the universe, whatever that 1247 00:57:31,460 --> 00:57:34,380 means, then obviously I don't think it would ever 1248 00:57:34,380 --> 00:57:35,940 happen. But I'm not going to rule it 1249 00:57:35,940 --> 00:57:37,520 out. I mean, I'm, you know, we're 1250 00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:39,420 carrying around cell phones. You 1251 00:57:39,420 --> 00:57:41,400 know, we're recording this podcast through the internet 1252 00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,240 and we can see and talk to each other. I 1253 00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:45,720 mean, that would have been magic, you know, 10 years 1254 00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:49,400 ago, even 15 years ago. Yeah. 1255 00:57:49,460 --> 00:57:52,860 I mean, if you if you think about it, the the 1256 00:57:52,860 --> 00:57:54,900 laws of the universe, one of the laws of the 1257 00:57:54,900 --> 00:57:59,100 universe, nothing can travel faster than light, which 1258 00:57:59,100 --> 00:58:02,720 means we'll never be able to get to other galaxies. 1259 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,700 Then unless you figure out some 1260 00:58:04,700 --> 00:58:08,040 sort of wormhole folding space, right, sci -fi stuff 1261 00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:11,700 like that. Hundreds of thousands of years with 1262 00:58:11,700 --> 00:58:16,040 the technology that we have right now, I think to 1263 00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:19,020 answer the question myself is that if you were to 1264 00:58:19,020 --> 00:58:23,120 take this cap and you were to teleport it, what you'd 1265 00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,480 actually teleport is a copy of it. So 1266 00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:29,540 to our eyes, it'd be maybe indistinguishable. But 1267 00:58:29,540 --> 00:58:34,160 I think the thing with with a person or an animal 1268 00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,180 is that it would also be a copy. And 1269 00:58:37,180 --> 00:58:39,760 the thing with personal animals that you have 1270 00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,420 electrical and chemical signals going from your 1271 00:58:42,420 --> 00:58:45,200 brain. So I kind of feel like you 1272 00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:49,000 can make a copy of the mass, but probably not of 1273 00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,940 the energy and that you probably be transported and 1274 00:58:52,940 --> 00:58:55,800 then like, what would happen? Probably. 1275 00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:58,380 Interesting. Drop dead. Or 1276 00:58:58,380 --> 00:59:00,160 yeah, what if it's more of a instead of a of a 1277 00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:03,200 teleporter, a replicator, right now I'm now taking 1278 00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:06,420 Star Trek, you know, T Earl Gray Earl Gray hot. 1279 00:59:06,620 --> 00:59:08,160 Right. No, I'll take that. I 1280 00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,560 bet honestly, that would be that'd be enough for me. 1281 00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:11,640 So I'm gonna change my answer 1282 00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,500 and I'll just take the replicator. Well, 1283 00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:15,360 that wasn't the question. It 1284 00:59:15,368 --> 00:59:18,240 was teleportation or the ability to read minds. My 1285 00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:19,980 gut reaction is of course read minds. I'd 1286 00:59:19,980 --> 00:59:22,420 always want to know, okay, what's going on so I can 1287 00:59:22,420 --> 00:59:24,620 kind of figure things out and make sure that, you 1288 00:59:24,620 --> 00:59:27,000 know, I'm on the, but that I'm on the good side of 1289 00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:28,360 whatever it needs to be. But 1290 00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:30,580 then you did mention the thing about being able to 1291 00:59:30,580 --> 00:59:32,220 turn it off. And I was like, oh yeah, that, 1292 00:59:32,220 --> 00:59:34,980 you know, that could be pretty crowded in someone's 1293 00:59:34,980 --> 00:59:39,200 head for a while. Yeah. Yeah. So 1294 00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:41,320 if I can turn it off ability to read minds, if 1295 00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:43,200 I can't turn it off, then yeah, I'm going to 1296 00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:45,300 sacrifice my Delta diamond status and go with 1297 00:59:45,300 --> 00:59:48,420 teleportation. Have you ever, have you ever 1298 00:59:48,420 --> 00:59:51,600 heard or have you ever seen the show True Blood? 1299 00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:53,879 Yeah, of course. Okay, 1300 00:59:53,879 --> 00:59:56,360 I only saw it because didn't use someone to watch 1301 00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:57,940 it. It's not my kind of show. I 1302 00:59:57,940 --> 00:59:59,820 liked it. I thought it was great. She 1303 00:59:59,820 --> 01:00:01,100 could read minds, right. And 1304 01:00:01,100 --> 01:00:03,840 it like would drive her crazy sometimes. Yeah. 1305 01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:06,220 I mean, that's, that's typically the drawback you 1306 01:00:06,220 --> 01:00:08,120 see in any sci -fi thing is if you can read minds, 1307 01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:11,360 how do you filter out like Professor X from the X 1308 01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:14,660 men, right? Same thing. And, 1309 01:00:14,660 --> 01:00:17,340 you know, other characters of the like that can do 1310 01:00:17,340 --> 01:00:19,380 that kind of stuff. Okay. We got really fantastical. 1311 01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:20,460 You're on a Friday. I 1312 01:00:20,460 --> 01:00:22,520 don't know what you're talking about anyway. Yeah. 1313 01:00:23,020 --> 01:00:24,440 All right. Let's keep this under an hour. 1314 01:00:25,260 --> 01:00:27,120 We'll wrap it up there. We're 1315 01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:30,980 on the web IDCpodcast .com on Twitter X whatever it's 1316 01:00:30,980 --> 01:00:33,520 called at IDC podcast. Mastodon 1317 01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:37,360 at IDC podcast at info sector exchange reached out 1318 01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:40,120 on LinkedIn and connect with Jim and myself. If 1319 01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,960 you're interested in attending the happy hour, 1320 01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:44,980 whatever it is we're trying to do at IDeniverse reached 1321 01:00:44,980 --> 01:00:47,380 out to Jim or I on LinkedIn and follow us on 1322 01:00:47,380 --> 01:00:48,740 YouTube. We're starting to build up that 1323 01:00:48,740 --> 01:00:51,240 channel. So like subscribe, get 1324 01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,460 notified. All of our audio episodes are 1325 01:00:53,460 --> 01:00:55,760 already there, but we're going to try to put some 1326 01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:57,120 more video stuff up there too. So 1327 01:00:57,127 --> 01:00:59,960 you want to, you know, subscribe and hit that bell 1328 01:00:59,960 --> 01:01:01,640 to be notified when new ones come in. So, 1329 01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:04,400 all right, ring the bell, ring the bell. All 1330 01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:05,620 right. That's it. Thanks 1331 01:01:05,620 --> 01:01:07,900 everyone for listening and we'll talk with y 'all in 1332 01:01:07,900 --> 01:01:33,580 the next one. .