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This is identity at the center. 
If it has anything to do with I 

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am this is the go-to podcast. 
So if you're a beginner or an 

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expert or anyone in between 
you've found your new home 

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welcome to Identity at the 
center now your host Jim 

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McDonald and Jeff Steadman 
Welcome to the identity of the 

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sender podcast. 
I'm Jeff and that's gem a gem. 

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Hey Jeff, how are you? 
Oh, not so bad yourself. 

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I'm good. 
Hey, I got a an email from 

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LinkedIn today that they are 
that I get one every so often 

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with companies that are hiring 
people in the I am space and 

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there happened to be a 
particular Airline hiring, and 

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it happens to be the airline 
that we were talking about 

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yesterday. 
They're looking for, like a 

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senior, I I am manager and I've 
we all say the name of the 

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airline, but I mean to find out 
that they're still using Seeker 

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questions as a second factor of 
authentication. 

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I don't know. 
I don't know if I'd want that 

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job. 
Yeah, naughty I think I don't 

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know which one you're talking 
about but I'm pretty sure if 

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it's the one I'm thinking about.
It's not even good Seer 

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questions. 
It's favorites and oh my gosh. 

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I don't know how many soap boxes
I've stepped on and off of 

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around. 
I hate favorites. 

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When it comes to any sort of 
validation favorites change and 

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they're very difficult for users
to remember, stop using 

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favorites Airline people who I 
think you're referring to Jim, 

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whoever that new person is. 
Please make it a mission, Fix 

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It. 
Go password list, please do 

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something better. 
I don't fly them anymore just 

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because of my regional change, 
but I know what you're talking 

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about. 
And yeah, that is one of my one 

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of my first world problem pet 
peeves that I have for 

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authentication. 
Yeah absolutely. 

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And you know I think the reason 
I said that I don't think it's 

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the job that I would want. 
It's not that I don't think that

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would be you know low-hanging 
fruit or shooting fish in a 

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barrel or whatever you want to 
say to describe something that's

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very easy to do or very easy to 
identify But if it's been this 

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long and it still hasn't 
changed, there must be some 

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inertia like a marketing, like a
CMOS like know, our people want 

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to have to use a second factor 
or people like the secret 

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questions. 
Yeah, they like it because they 

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don't have to do anything, more 
secure. 

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I don't know. 
I just I'm not gonna say 

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anything more about it because 
I'll get in trouble. 

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Say something I probably don't, 
I shouldn't say, but I don't 

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agree with that II feel like 
this chain this has been around 

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for at least seven or eight 
years. 

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If I recall when does one live, 
because I remember when I went 

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live, I feel that's enough. 
Time to, you know, figure out 

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what your next step is from a 
stronger authentication, but I 

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understand you got lots of 
users, you got to be really 

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careful about change and you 
know, all that stuff. 

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But man I just I didn't agree 
with that eight years ago and I 

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still don't agree with it now. 
Yeah. 

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Well, you know, I know that. 
You know what really brought it 

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to mind though about the 
airline's was I flew back last 

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night. 
I got home at 1:00 a.m. and I 

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was very fortunate. 
The flight was comfortable. 

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And, you know, it got in on 
time, but it's still a long day.

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You flew today we're in the 
great cold north of the United 

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States and it was, we're working
with a client who is a Regional 

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Bank, so much going on in the 
regional banking space. 

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These days. 
And I kind of think one of the 

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biggest challenges for the 
regional Banks, is that there 

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are for the most part managed by
the same or the Hard to become 

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compliant with many of the same 
regulations as the big Banks, 

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but they don't have the size of 
the I am organizations that the 

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big banks have. 
And so, it's got to be a big 

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challenge. 
I'm sure it is. 

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I think you and I, you know, 
kind of talk through that this 

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week. 
Is we had a conversation with 

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that, but I think the good news 
is sometimes that can be a 

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blessing because there's less 
bureaucracy to get through 

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things and to actually get 
changes done. 

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So, I'm going to pretend So look
at that as a positive glass 

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half-full scenario, rather than 
the negative because Jim, I 

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don't want you starting off with
a - you were on a streak there 

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for a few weeks. 
Let's not go there. 

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It's Friday. 
I've been under his tail. 

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He have, it's not too late. 
It's not too late. 

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Yeah, I got to tell you. 
I so I flew back from, we were 

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in Chicago area and Wisconsin 
and stuff like that. 

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And I got I had to get up at 2 
a.m. to drive back to O'Hare and

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to catch basically the earliest 
flight they have out of there 

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and I have found what I thought.
I think is the best airline Club

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location that I've seen yet in 
the United States, the Delta 

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Club at Terminal 5 at O'Hare is 
fantastic. 

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It's like, it must be brand new 
but it's big. 

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Its spacious plenty of options, 
plenty of variety of seating 

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Styles. 
I got to tell you at 4:30 in the

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morning it was a very welcome 
sight. 

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For me, I think Delta's up up 
their game across the board. 

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There are C so is Deb wheeler 
and our guest today and I 

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reported to her at one of the 
bank at the bank that we work 

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together at over a decade ago. 
So shout out to Deb your 

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company's doing a fantastic job.
Yeah just fix some of the 

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Atlanta club please it was 
because he's like a couple 

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updates while before we get to 
our guest. 

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Let's go through. 
Eddie what kind of nonsense do 

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you got? 
I think we're coming up on a 

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Denver's coming up here in a 
month. 

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It's only 8:30. 
Years. 

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Yeah, at the Aria Aria Resort 
and Casino in Las Vegas. 

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Nevada. 
We have a very special 

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identifiers discount code just 
for our listeners because we 

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love you so much and because I 
don't know versus so very cool, 

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they hooked us up with this. 
This is like our first discount 

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code for a conference. 
So get those little pens out its

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I DV as an identity verse ID 
isn't dog V as in Victor icen, 

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like identity Center twenty20. 
So i d v Dash. 

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I see EE. 
And 20. 

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You know, it's a little 
doubtful. 

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I'll make sure it's in our show,
our show notes of people get it,

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but that gets you 20% off which 
is, which is very cool. 

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So, very nice to the diverse 
folks, to kind of hook us up 

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there and I know you spent a lot
of time kind of working with 

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them on that. 
So it paid off. 

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I hope your didn't pay off in 
terms of cash, but it paid off 

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for our and our listeners who 
hopefully can see him some cash.

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Yeah, I think we talked about 
one of our priests, like, what 

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do you do with that? 
20% savings. 

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Do you throw it back into the, 
into the pool of the corporate 

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pool or do you go to a little 
bit nicer dinner? 

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You know? 
Do you rent The Uber black car 

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versus The Uber regular car? 
I mean, how you gonna spend that

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20%? 
Jim. 

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Yeah. 
I mean to, I, like, all those 

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ideas, I think I would maybe go 
to a show or something. 

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It is Vegas. 
There's Vegas as we do it. 

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Let's see. 
Any other news and notes before 

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we get into our main topic? 
No, let's Jump Right In and 

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let's do it. 
Let's talk about banking in the 

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I am World, maybe banking on. 
I am, I don't have excited on 

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the show name yet. 
Maybe that'll name itself, but 

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we're gonna invite on to the 
show. 

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First-timer, Serena casula, he's
a senior, I am technology leader

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at Wells. 
Fargo, welcome to the show 

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cerini. 
Thank you. 

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Yeah, thanks so much for taking 
the time to join us. 

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It sounds like you and Jim have 
some history. 

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So why don't we start there? 
I think, you know, one thing 

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too. 
To do with our first time guest 

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is understand sort of their 
identity origin story and to 

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find out is, is I am something 
that you chose, or did it 

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choose? 
You, we have an interesting 

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background and my journey 
starter exactly. 

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Back in 2000. 
When we were building an 

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authentication internally. 
We've been actually said, hey, 

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you know, why not? 
We look at the cards product. 

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So we started On looking at cars
product. 

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And then, I started my journey 
with site minder, which is an 

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integrated product and then 
basically, you know, implemented

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that well for the banking 
client, I was working for a bank

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at the time as well, to be able 
to provide a single sign-on 

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across multiple business lines. 
That's how it's hard to make, 

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you know, security journey and I
am journey. 

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And from then onwards, I being 
pretty Which, you know, as that 

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I am, is evolving. 
I was in the, you know, 

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authentication directory and 
then governments and improve 

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their gags. 
That's how I've been actually 

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involved in die. 
And you know, like, 

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interestingly German, I actually
have worked out there, you know 

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at the bank with they've been 
given under the tarp, a bank 

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holding company status. 
So we We had two spun up, there 

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is a program and we actually 
have to bring everything related

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to I am from the scratch and the
time. 

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So that's how you know, Jimmy 
has been my partner in crime or 

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delivering that I am program. 
Jim seems to have a lot of 

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partners in crime so you're all 
innocent until I meet them. 

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Yeah definitely. 
That is for sure. 

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So Shri knee. 
You're a senior. 

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I am technology leader. 
What does that mean in the real 

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world? 
What are you? 

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What are you working on? 
What does that entail? 

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Yeah. 
Being a working on quite a 

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number of Tanks. 
It's basically we we have you 

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know, like not only just working
for all the Terminal. 

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I am you know like capabilities 
development that means that the 

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control requirements and also 
like we are getting onto a new 

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digital transformation Journey 
to the into the cloud. 

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So we need to basically develop 
Cloud specific controls and 

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capabilities. 
That is something that it's new 

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and exciting stuff. 
That's what actually I've been 

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working out. 
Let's go. 

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Cool, socially you. 
And I work together at the bank 

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and, you know, you left, I guess
after me at some point. 

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And I think you got out of the 
banking world for a while or 

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into Consulting, you probably 
saw some banking clients because

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probably some in other 
Industries as well. 

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What I wanted to ask you is, you
know, how is I am in the banking

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World different than other 
Industries. 

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Yeah. 
So the banking industry is 

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heavily the glitter and it Lot 
of compliance requirements. 

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So one of the things that I know
DC is basically because of the 

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regulation and compliance, you 
know, most of the time, they 

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will be heavy focus and emphasis
on how do I make sure that we 

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just become compliance to that 
regulatory requirements? 

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You know, where as in other 
areas where you don't have this,

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at least based on my Consulting 
experience you know where there 

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is Not much regulation. 
They actually get an opportunity

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to be able to try some new 
things. 

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Like you know, like animal model
based, you know. 

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Like whether you are to look at 
the other end clip response 

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inside, you know, I am or, you 
know, trying out some new 

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optimization techniques some of 
those areas, you know, you can't

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you know, quickly introduce 
whereas in the case of banking 

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you got to make sure that 
everything is Actually run 

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through the compliance and 
making sure that you know, does 

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it actually, you know, introduce
any risk to the controls, right?

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Those are some of the things 
that I see significant 

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difference and then another 
aspect that I also see is for 

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the most part in the banking 
world, you try to make sure that

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you are in compliance to the 
controls. 

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We don't like to actually have 
Have basically, at least, you 

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know, in my experience, you 
don't actually try to think 

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about and Beyond just your 
controls right, you know, you 

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like that. 
Looking at the overall risk 

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posture rain. 
What do I need to do above and 

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beyond? 
So that's something that, you 

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know, we won't have a lot of 
time. 

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00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:08,500
I would say, in some cases 
that's that she's a bigger 

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difference that I've seen 
between a banking and not 

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banking. 
Yeah. 

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I can imagine a and some when I 
was in the banking space and 

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I've seen this, you know, 
working with financial services 

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clients, but not being in the 
spaces, it's kind of like not 

228
00:13:26,900 --> 00:13:33,300
every client that I work with is
in banking, but going back over 

229
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a decade ago, it was there's a 
lot more suspicion and weariness

230
00:13:37,900 --> 00:13:40,800
of leveraging, cloud Based 
Services. 

231
00:13:41,300 --> 00:13:44,800
Now there's Um spaces of 
Technology where you look and 

232
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it's like it'd be hard to find a
non cloud-based service to fill 

233
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,600
your needs. 
You almost are forced down the 

234
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,700
road of using cloud-based 
services and I always remembered

235
00:13:54,700 --> 00:14:00,500
that the hesitancy being around 
putting, you know, user customer

236
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data in the cloud. 
But I have to imagine all of 

237
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those walls are breaking down 
now. 

238
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Yeah, you had absolutely like 
Jim, you know, back in the day, 

239
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,200
like, you know, there was a lot 
of concern to. 

240
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:20,800
But if you look at today, now 
most of the software is 

241
00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:23,300
basically a 
software-as-a-service, right? 

242
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,400
You're already using route of 
the software service you already

243
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:32,100
have your data in some of these 
Cloud providers. 

244
00:14:32,700 --> 00:14:38,900
So you know that there is a lot 
of chipped in Approach and there

245
00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:45,100
is also some confidence in the 
overall control structure in the

246
00:14:45,100 --> 00:14:48,800
cloud providers. 
So, you know, banking world is 

247
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:54,100
also exploring and looking at 
opportunities to Leverage The 

248
00:14:54,100 --> 00:14:59,600
Cloud providers, you know, as an
extension of existing data 

249
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,500
centers. 
We are so definitely. 

250
00:15:02,500 --> 00:15:06,500
And you know, with the amount 
that I T, is changed how the 

251
00:15:06,500 --> 00:15:08,600
cloud is. 
Acted things. 

252
00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:11,600
I'm wondering what are some of 
the cool things that you're 

253
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:17,600
working on now in your role as a
senior, I am technology leader. 

254
00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:21,900
Yeah so there are a couple of 
challenges that comes with you 

255
00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:24,500
know Cloud right. 
You know one of the things is 

256
00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:31,300
you know mom basically the whole
agility right in with be able to

257
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,800
you know quickly deliver the 
resources and able to quickly 

258
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,500
push the workloads and 
everything is done through. 

259
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,600
Will automate Russian using, you
know, like automation tools, 

260
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,500
like Tara far more cloud 
formation? 

261
00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:49,000
You know, we cannot apply the 
traditional the old school. 

262
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:54,400
I am processes are controls. 
So one of the things that I'm 

263
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,800
actually looking at is, how do 
we make sure that we support the

264
00:15:58,808 --> 00:16:04,400
agility and then also, to make 
sure that we also have enough 

265
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:09,600
controls in place. 
So that we can actually support 

266
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,900
the, you know, the business 
application to be able to be 

267
00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:19,000
moved into the cloud. 
That's one of the cool things. 

268
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,400
And also other thing that I 
would also say, I mean again 

269
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:23,900
like that was really think that 
I'm going out. 

270
00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:27,000
But another interesting thing 
is, you know, we have been 

271
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:33,800
focusing too much on all the 
tools on the on-prem privileged 

272
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,600
access and all What these cloud 
provider spring is like an 

273
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,000
interesting challenge of 
actually having their own 

274
00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:45,800
privileged access tools, we need
to figure out how do we bridge 

275
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,500
the gap, right? 
How do we, you know, play along 

276
00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:53,000
with a toolset? 
How do we make sure that we 

277
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,800
actually put the controls that 
we have on-prem onto this Cloud 

278
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,000
providers as well? 
But those are some of the two 

279
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,099
things that I want to highlight.
That's cool things. 

280
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:05,700
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

281
00:17:05,700 --> 00:17:13,200
I mean it sounds like a you get 
a lot of opportunity to figure 

282
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:19,200
out how to do things faster more
resilient than maybe even like 

283
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,099
some of the cloud solutions that
you're looking at it. 

284
00:17:21,099 --> 00:17:24,900
Like, you know, in terms of what
service level agreements, they 

285
00:17:24,900 --> 00:17:29,300
can provide, you can you, can 
you actually beat those? 

286
00:17:29,300 --> 00:17:33,200
Can you, you know, survive a 
disaster? 

287
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,200
I would imagine just something 
that You know, you look at 

288
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,400
Italy, can I survive a disaster 
recovery from a disaster quicker

289
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,900
than being offered in terms of 
an SLA? 

290
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,200
And then I've got, I've got to 
mention also. 

291
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:50,700
When you look at soas and kind 
of historic data, usually like 

292
00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:57,700
in terms of like up time, if 
they question like okay, can you

293
00:17:57,700 --> 00:18:01,200
actually do that? 
You know, you might be putting 

294
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,200
it on as your guarantee if they 
fail to meet the also a like 

295
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,700
What are you going to do not pay
them for the service for a 

296
00:18:07,708 --> 00:18:10,600
month? 
You've got to look at it, 

297
00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:14,600
probably like okay, well if I 
can't get my authentication 

298
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,200
system back up and running it 
could bring the bank to his 

299
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:19,700
knees. 
Yep. 

300
00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:23,800
Yeah, that's that's an 
interesting challenge to write, 

301
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:29,000
you know, like although they 
have all this High availability 

302
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:34,400
BCPS, you know, like you have 
witness different data centers 

303
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:39,200
on You know, like between East 
Coast West Coast and Global, but

304
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,400
still, you know, when it comes 
to authentication, you know, you

305
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,600
still need to make sure that, 
you know, we actually have an 

306
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:52,100
ability to be able to quickly, 
you know, failover to the backup

307
00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:57,000
or failover to a global region 
that is available to be able to 

308
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,400
still serve to the out 
customers. 

309
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:05,000
So that that's so far has been 
pretty. 

310
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,500
Testing Challenge. 
And, you know, one other Cloud 

311
00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:13,700
providers that we work with, you
know, they do actually have some

312
00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:19,400
of this, you know, like able to 
kind of cash the credentials, 

313
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:24,600
like, not the kind of credential
caching, the tokens and to be 

314
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,600
able to still operate and 
provide. 

315
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,900
So they do actually have thought
through this. 

316
00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:35,400
They are providing that ability.
Even in the case of, you know, I

317
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:40,300
do not interfere lower. 
Originally I think of your area 

318
00:19:40,300 --> 00:19:43,500
of its kind of like focus on the
workforce. 

319
00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:48,900
I am yet the big three areas 
access management identity 

320
00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:53,000
governance and privileged access
management access management. 

321
00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:56,700
Pretty much has to be available.
That's like you know that goes 

322
00:19:56,700 --> 00:20:00,800
down for 5-10 minutes. 
People notice IGA you can 

323
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,400
usually last a little bit 
longer, right? 

324
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,900
If your provision get slowed 
down so it's not like you know 

325
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,400
it's got Be 24 by 7 uptime 8, 
obviously, you don't want it to 

326
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,400
go down, but you can deal with a
little downtime. 

327
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,500
I think privileged access 
management is in a, you know, 

328
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:22,700
ballpark by itself because you 
have the authentication, but 

329
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:27,000
it's also like effect course 
systems of like, people not only

330
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:31,100
like, would it be people be 
inconvenienced by not being able

331
00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:34,100
to authenticate? 
They might not be able to 

332
00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:38,300
restore from a disaster if you 
have your Ajax s management 

333
00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:41,100
system down and in my 
experience, that's a lot of the 

334
00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:45,800
time where you faced resistance 
or harder time getting a Pam 

335
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,900
truly rolled out. 
Is that folks who manage 

336
00:20:49,900 --> 00:20:51,400
systems? 
Like servers? 

337
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,300
Say, okay well, how am I how am 
I going to survive if you're 

338
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,900
privileged access management 
system goes down. 

339
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,800
Yeah, that's that's that's well 
that's pretty accurate 

340
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,800
description of what are the 
challenges with each area, 

341
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,400
right? 
So It's probably just touch on 

342
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,300
the privilege. 
I think that's a valid concern, 

343
00:21:11,300 --> 00:21:13,400
right? 
You know, you need to be able to

344
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,000
give them access to be able to 
retrieve. 

345
00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:22,000
So, you know, we do actually 
have a couple of different 

346
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,100
strategies, you know, you know, 
one of the strategies to make 

347
00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:29,600
sure that you always have a 
break glass through biggest 

348
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,100
break glass that way that, you 
know, they can actually get into

349
00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:37,800
it and able to quickly retrieve 
the access that they need so 

350
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:43,500
that they can support the 
business operations on needs, 

351
00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:46,200
right? 
So we're able to Payable to get 

352
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,600
into the axis and they're able 
to quickly restore. 

353
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:53,100
So so that, that interesting as 
you rightly said, you know, by 

354
00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:56,100
being in the Consulting that is 
one of the concerns. 

355
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,600
Why in my Consulting area, they 
in my Consulting experience, 

356
00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:06,200
they have not widely adopted, 
the privileged access to all the

357
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,100
platforms. 
There are a lot of concerns. 

358
00:22:08,100 --> 00:22:11,000
So, yeah, I'm one. 
I mean, I'm sure you guys do 

359
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:17,200
kind of the tabletop exercises 
and, and But, you know, I know 

360
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,000
that back in the day, people are
always say, oh yeah, you have a 

361
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,600
disaster recovery plan. 
But the question is, do you test

362
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,500
it or like, how often do you 
test it? 

363
00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:31,400
Because that's really the the 
the True Grit of whether or not 

364
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,900
your plans any good because you 
don't want to be there having 

365
00:22:35,900 --> 00:22:37,400
different store in your plans, 
not good. 

366
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,300
I did want to shift the 
conversation so you manage the 

367
00:22:41,300 --> 00:22:44,400
team I want to talk about like 
the pain. 

368
00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:48,700
Pemmican, how you know, we just 
came out of this long pandemic, 

369
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,400
but it came on so quick. 
It hit a lot of organizations, 

370
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,800
by surprise. 
They kind of shifted to a remote

371
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:02,200
work posture and having to 
support remote workers that at 

372
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,200
the scale that they've never had
to in the past, I'm wondering, 

373
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:10,900
how did that affect you and is 
it starting to ease up, where 

374
00:23:11,300 --> 00:23:13,300
I'm in? 
I would imagine if, of course, 

375
00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:16,900
seizing up, but Are people 
starting to go back into the 

376
00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:18,200
office? 
Yeah. 

377
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,300
So it's a pine amick actually, 
talked all of us. 

378
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,100
A lot of new things, right? 
One is, how can we get the work 

379
00:23:27,100 --> 00:23:32,600
done remotely? 
And also it in interesting area 

380
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,100
for I am. 
Especially we need to actually 

381
00:23:36,300 --> 00:23:41,300
be able to quickly scale up to 
able to support lot of this 

382
00:23:41,300 --> 00:23:44,500
Workforce who can work remotely 
and securely, right? 

383
00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:49,900
That that's a Canadian and as we
are getting back, you know, like

384
00:23:49,900 --> 00:23:53,900
a also, see some of the positive
stop right in and you know like 

385
00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:58,800
other people are actually 
somewhat like a kind of bored 

386
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,500
being That whole part so long 
once you know the officers have 

387
00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:07,700
opened up, you know like they 
like that social interaction, 

388
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,100
they like to be able to get into
a room and then whiteboard, you 

389
00:24:13,100 --> 00:24:15,900
know, especially on the alien at
work in. 

390
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,300
You know, we we like to actually
whiteboard lot of stuff like in 

391
00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:23,200
how the integration works. 
You know, how do we actually 

392
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:29,800
build this controls in place? 
So that is a gradual Transition 

393
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:34,100
that we are going to right now. 
Yeah, did you guys ever get to a

394
00:24:34,100 --> 00:24:37,700
point where you could, you know,
virtually whiteboard? 

395
00:24:37,900 --> 00:24:42,900
I mean, did you try to take that
and come up with some kind of 

396
00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:45,500
app that everybody could? 
You know, I think Microsoft has,

397
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,700
I actually never got to the 
point where we actually like 

398
00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:52,900
worded virtually, very often 
except you know, trying to use 

399
00:24:52,900 --> 00:24:55,600
like losing your power when it 
comes. 

400
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,100
Yeah. 
When it comes to technology, I 

401
00:24:58,100 --> 00:25:00,200
like to. 
I like to use paper and pencil. 

402
00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:01,800
I'm excited for you. 
Get your new laptop. 

403
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,100
By the way, Jim because as a 
pain you're going to love it. 

404
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,600
Sorry I didn't tell me. 
Yeah, so I mean we have not used

405
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,100
a lot of that but, you know, I 
think as you know, with all the 

406
00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:20,900
bandwidth sometimes like you 
draw here it doesn't show up on 

407
00:25:20,900 --> 00:25:24,300
this Creek for quite some time. 
Like, you know, and then he's 

408
00:25:24,300 --> 00:25:29,800
doing video calls. 
But what we have used is like, 

409
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:35,100
you know, Lucy chart or Vizio. 
You know, you basically draw on 

410
00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:39,900
the Vizio and then you know, 
that way that you can shade and 

411
00:25:39,900 --> 00:25:44,300
you know, basically are you, you
know, he's do the Vizio upfront 

412
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,400
and then about Vizio on the 
corn. 

413
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:52,500
So, that's how I've seen at 
least in my experience during 

414
00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:56,900
that time. 
Yay, I think lucidchart for me, 

415
00:25:56,900 --> 00:26:01,400
it's like, I can use lucidchart 
to drop a diagram so much faster

416
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:02,300
than we do. 
Susie. 

417
00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:08,900
I think I don't like the zo. 
You remember those white boards 

418
00:26:08,900 --> 00:26:12,400
that a lot of places to have 
where you could draw on them and

419
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,700
then you push a button and do a 
print it out? 

420
00:26:15,500 --> 00:26:18,100
Yeah. 
I've seen that but I don't see 

421
00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:21,900
that no, but I do remember a 
decade backed up what their 

422
00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:24,900
Clint, right? 
You write it on a whiteboard 

423
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,300
that you draw a picture, it'll 
automatically scan and intended 

424
00:26:29,300 --> 00:26:34,400
as a PDF to Peter that you can 
use either printed or share 

425
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,700
that. 
So I don't think that quite 

426
00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:38,800
often. 
Now it is, it's like a nerdy 

427
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:43,900
corporate Polaroid yet because 
really bad. 

428
00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:46,000
Yeah. 
So what was the one that Arturo 

429
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,500
had Jeff? 
Yeah. 

430
00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:50,500
They had Microsoft Surface hubs,
which are these, you know, 

431
00:26:50,500 --> 00:26:53,400
basically big screen TVs with 
touch screen with touch 

432
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:54,800
touchscreen. 
Capability could draw and I'm 

433
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,800
very cool, very expensive. 
I don't know if they were ever 

434
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,300
actually took often and all but 
maybe the biggest Enterprises or

435
00:27:01,300 --> 00:27:04,700
maybe the best Microsoft 
customers but it's a very cool 

436
00:27:04,700 --> 00:27:06,400
idea. 
But you have like this basically

437
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,700
50 inch TV that you can write on
and it's connected to your 

438
00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:11,900
team's room and everyone can see
it. 

439
00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:15,000
It was neat when we were there, 
that's for sure. 

440
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:18,900
Yeah. 
So she need a topic that we've 

441
00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:22,900
been thinking a lot about 
lately, is you know, training, 

442
00:27:23,500 --> 00:27:29,000
you know, training of your team.
What format do you think is the 

443
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,500
best investment? 
Is it sending people to Sirs is 

444
00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:38,400
it semi-people to conferences is
as something else is getting the

445
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,000
Melinda membership or just 
saying go hit YouTube and watch 

446
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,000
videos. 
Then, you know, do you prefer 

447
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,600
vendor specific trainings and 
conferences or something. 

448
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:57,200
That's more, you know, industry 
General, I would say basically 

449
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,800
bought a combination right, you 
know any English teacher. 

450
00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:06,900
General, basically is something 
that I would say at least, they 

451
00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:13,500
need to have an exposure because
I am has been changing and 

452
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:18,900
evolving, you know, in the last 
couple of years, right? 

453
00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:23,800
I mean, it has been changing for
the decade, but what I wanted to

454
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:29,400
basically say is I want to be 
able to have my team to have 

455
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:35,800
exposure to, with I am. 
Heading and how the industry is 

456
00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:38,600
is changing and where they are 
heading towards. 

457
00:28:38,900 --> 00:28:43,500
And also gives you a bigger 
picture of how I am fits into 

458
00:28:43,500 --> 00:28:47,300
the overall, you know, 
cybersecurity ecosystem. 

459
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:52,900
Right, that's where I see a lot 
of value or products industry 

460
00:28:52,900 --> 00:28:59,100
conferences but when it comes to
basically and expertise into a 

461
00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:04,100
specific capability, You know, 
that's when I see a vendor 

462
00:29:04,100 --> 00:29:06,800
specific. 
In a classroom. 

463
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:09,800
Right? 
You know you go there is not 

464
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,300
only learn about the product is 
it will also give you an 

465
00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:15,800
opportunity to connect with 
other people how they are 

466
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,600
implementing, what are the 
challenges that they are facing 

467
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,700
how they all come. 
So that is also, I feel like it 

468
00:29:22,700 --> 00:29:27,100
is very equally important to 
make sure that you know like you

469
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,300
become an expert in that area. 
Right. 

470
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,500
That's that's that's how I say 
yeah. 

471
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:34,900
And now I think that's a good 
point. 

472
00:29:34,900 --> 00:29:39,300
So it's kind of Like both vendor
and Industry. 

473
00:29:39,300 --> 00:29:44,200
General is important for both 
fronts. 

474
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,800
I will say this about 
conferences. 

475
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,200
I love going to conferences and 
networking with people and 

476
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,600
hearing about how they're 
solving problems. 

477
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,700
And then you can follow you up 
and, you know, extending that, 

478
00:29:55,700 --> 00:30:00,000
that meeting to, you know, 
reconnect later. 

479
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:07,700
One question I had for you is as
e in the banking industry, when 

480
00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:12,400
you're a conferences or wherever
and you're meeting your peers 

481
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:17,300
from other banks, are they 
pretty much willing to share 

482
00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:20,400
information or you willing to 
share information in terms of 

483
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,500
here's what we're doing? 
Here's the kind of threats that 

484
00:30:22,500 --> 00:30:24,900
we're facing and how we're 
taking them on. 

485
00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:29,300
Because I always felt like 
within the within the industry 

486
00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:33,600
information, security is one 
area where you're not, really 

487
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,500
competitors, you're not 
competing, Against it. 

488
00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:39,200
You're competing against the 
adversary, right? 

489
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:45,100
Not against other Banks. 
Yeah you're exactly right. 

490
00:30:45,100 --> 00:30:49,500
Basically we are not competing, 
we are not fighting with each 

491
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,500
other competitor, right? 
And so you know, I mean I have 

492
00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:59,300
seen at least there are various 
different forums where they all 

493
00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:02,900
come together and then talk 
about you know what they see 

494
00:31:03,300 --> 00:31:08,900
what are the best practices. 
And I also have noticed 

495
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,800
basically all these big vendors 
Right? 

496
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,000
They also have a vested interest
to bring it all these folks 

497
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,300
together and say, okay, you 
know, like the to improve their 

498
00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:21,400
product. 
They want to actually have all 

499
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:26,700
this potential companies to 
provide date, you know, like 

500
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,900
product feedback and then they 
also wanted to hear from all 

501
00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:34,700
these Financial organizations. 
What are the the features that 

502
00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:37,500
you would like to see, which is 
common across all these 

503
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:40,700
companies write all these 
Financial organization. 

504
00:31:40,700 --> 00:31:44,100
So, I'm saying more 
collaboration, more knowledge 

505
00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:49,000
sharing now than before great, 
I'm going to keep going, Jeff 

506
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:50,900
you don't mind because I've got 
a few questions without 

507
00:31:50,900 --> 00:31:55,300
answering and actually, what I 
want to do now is kind of like, 

508
00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:58,100
do like a lightning round. 
So I'm going to throw some ideas

509
00:31:58,100 --> 00:32:01,700
out there, some things that I've
been thinking about, and I'd 

510
00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:03,600
like to get your perspective on 
them. 

511
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,700
So the first one is devops, you 
know, doing the automation 

512
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,300
automated deployment like 
infrastructure as code. 

513
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,500
Code deploying applications. 
Devops. 

514
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:17,600
What are your thoughts there, 
when, and how it relates to what

515
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:23,000
you're working on? 
Devops is basically The Veil The

516
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,000
Future, right? 
I mean, you know, develops is 

517
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,400
the way to deploy the code. 
Obviously the way of actually 

518
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:35,000
building the infrastructure, you
know, I think I am actually also

519
00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:38,800
be part of that pipeline right 
now. 

520
00:32:39,300 --> 00:32:43,600
You know, if we don't actually 
Be part of the pipeline then we 

521
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,000
will become a blogger. 
So I think that there is a lot 

522
00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:53,200
that I am need to actually to 
the catch up with the developed 

523
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,300
Pipeline and then be able to 
deliver all the required 

524
00:32:57,300 --> 00:33:02,500
controls as part of a pipeline. 
I think there is a lot more work

525
00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:06,700
at least from my point of view 
in that area. 

526
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,100
I think it's a big deal to. 
You have to think about like, 

527
00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:19,300
Robots, and their need to have 
identities and how can you, you 

528
00:33:19,300 --> 00:33:24,700
know, as I am professional, make
sure that that's being used and 

529
00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:29,100
done according to policy, and 
within control, without slowing 

530
00:33:29,100 --> 00:33:31,700
down the process, right? 
That's the, that's the 

531
00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:35,900
challenge. 
Yeah, so that's the challenge 

532
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,800
again. 
So, what we need to make sure 

533
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:44,200
that is this We should support 
the agility, but at the same 

534
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,700
time, we also need to make sure 
that we have enough controls in 

535
00:33:48,700 --> 00:33:51,700
place so that we are managing 
the risk. 

536
00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:56,000
Yeah, and maybe ask these are 
for because I think this is the 

537
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,500
easier one or the thing that 
people point to that, it's like,

538
00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:02,300
oh this is how you're going to 
secure Cloud. 

539
00:34:02,300 --> 00:34:06,500
So this new space called Keem or
cie. 

540
00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:08,699
M stands for cloud 
infrastructure. 

541
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,699
Entitlement management. 
What are your thoughts there? 

542
00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:18,600
So that's an interesting area. 
So that is basically is going to

543
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:23,000
be key if you want her to have a
visibility into the cloud. 

544
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:28,400
So, Rod up these Cloud 
providers, basically give you 

545
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:35,500
some visibility but not the 
extent that you want to know 

546
00:34:35,500 --> 00:34:40,100
about it, right? 
So these like a see, I am 

547
00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:45,900
vendors who has become like a 
Our Diagnostic and they are able

548
00:34:45,900 --> 00:34:51,199
to provide visibility across 
multi-cloud which is actually 

549
00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:56,600
going to be very key because you
want to know, what are the the 

550
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:02,900
entitlements, what are the 
account and who has access to 

551
00:35:02,900 --> 00:35:05,300
what? 
And then what type of access 

552
00:35:05,300 --> 00:35:11,300
they provide? 
The CIA actually is solving that

553
00:35:11,300 --> 00:35:14,100
problem, right? 
So that is We're going to be key

554
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,000
if you are into the cloud. 
So that is what is is the 

555
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,300
evolving, right? 
That's evolving. 

556
00:35:22,300 --> 00:35:25,700
So and if you look at the trend,
you know, right now there are 

557
00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:31,100
some point solutions that are 
actually coming out but I do see

558
00:35:31,100 --> 00:35:34,800
in the future that should become
part of the IG a solution 

559
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:40,500
because how IGA actually has a 
visibility into the on-premise 

560
00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:43,900
systems, you know, like I can 
see I mean, Providing the 

561
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:48,200
similar visibility but we need 
to. 

562
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,700
I hope I see I would see in the 
near future is having this idea 

563
00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:59,300
products bringing their GM 
capability into the IGA and not 

564
00:35:59,300 --> 00:36:02,400
only just bring the visibility 
you know we probably need to 

565
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,000
look at in the future. 
How do we actually also leverage

566
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:12,500
that data to even you know think
about how to be provision or how

567
00:36:12,500 --> 00:36:16,600
to behave. 
Mediate the over-provision axis.

568
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,900
That's how I see in the future. 
The industry is going to head to

569
00:36:20,900 --> 00:36:22,300
us. 
I hope it is. 

570
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:27,000
I think that's really insightful
that you can see moving toward 

571
00:36:27,100 --> 00:36:31,100
IGA because they're both kind of
a detective control who has 

572
00:36:31,100 --> 00:36:34,800
access to what there's periodic 
reviews of that. 

573
00:36:35,100 --> 00:36:38,900
But I think you know at least 
operationally speaking, the idea

574
00:36:38,900 --> 00:36:42,500
with Chi minh's that you're 
looking at it on a more frequent

575
00:36:42,500 --> 00:36:45,200
basis. 
So so you know, maybe maybe 

576
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,800
that's not true, but that you're
looking at the, you know, 

577
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,600
over-provisioning as I think the
word that comes to mind for me 

578
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,100
is hey, this role is given to to
too many people. 

579
00:36:58,300 --> 00:37:01,200
These people have too many roles
that are they don't use these 

580
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:06,300
roles and then you can go and 
right size access. 

581
00:37:06,300 --> 00:37:10,100
But it's after the fact it's 
they've been sitting with that 

582
00:37:10,100 --> 00:37:12,600
role for so long. 
They haven't used it in 90 days.

583
00:37:14,100 --> 00:37:17,200
You should take it away from 
that person, but the reality is 

584
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,500
that they never needed in the 
first place kind of. 

585
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,900
Yeah, that's you know, see Amy's
is giving out of their 

586
00:37:25,900 --> 00:37:28,700
perspective which we never had 
with all. 

587
00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:34,900
This idea Parks is. 
It also looks like that usage is

588
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,300
never actually have visibility 
into the target system. 

589
00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:41,100
Whether this entire argument has
been used or not. 

590
00:37:41,500 --> 00:37:46,800
See, I am actually Lee looks at 
not only, you know, the audit 

591
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,100
data report, okay? 
When was the last time this role

592
00:37:50,100 --> 00:37:54,000
has been used, who has used it, 
and it also looks at the 

593
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,300
analysis of the, the road and 
the corresponding permissions 

594
00:37:58,300 --> 00:38:02,000
who have access to it. 
And then, you know, when was 

595
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,600
Malik is this over provision 
taxes for what they are trying 

596
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,900
to do. 
So it is bringing a different 

597
00:38:08,900 --> 00:38:12,800
dimension, which, you know, we 
never had even. 

598
00:38:13,100 --> 00:38:15,300
On-prem. 
Yeah, you're right. 

599
00:38:15,300 --> 00:38:19,700
And you know Jeff that I've had 
this discussion or only call it 

600
00:38:19,700 --> 00:38:24,400
a debate but it's more like I am
we talk about I am it's who has 

601
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:30,900
access to what and then there 
was the UVA or ueb a user 

602
00:38:30,900 --> 00:38:34,700
Behavior analytics which was and
what are they doing with that 

603
00:38:34,700 --> 00:38:37,300
access? 
Or they is the access being used

604
00:38:37,300 --> 00:38:39,400
appropriately? 
And I think there's an element 

605
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:44,400
of that to Keem where? 
You know, it's just to your 

606
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,700
point like okay, we're seeing 
things. 

607
00:38:46,700 --> 00:38:50,000
We were not able or not able to 
see with IGA. 

608
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,100
Are they actually using the 
access? 

609
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,700
So the last one in the lightning
round was, you know, password 

610
00:38:56,700 --> 00:38:58,900
lessons. 
A lot of pastoralist Solutions 

611
00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:04,200
have identity proofing. 
In terms of part of your 

612
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,200
onboarding process into your 
organization using a 

613
00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:13,300
government-issued ID and, you 
know, maybe doing like Video 

614
00:39:13,300 --> 00:39:18,300
selfie to make sure that 
actually match up moving that 

615
00:39:18,300 --> 00:39:22,600
into maybe that pre-populate 
some of your tax forms, but it 

616
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,400
certainly gives you a higher 
proof that the person is who 

617
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,400
they say they are maybe later 
on. 

618
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,700
You can use that that data for 
pastoralist so you can do 

619
00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:35,500
pastoralists with a biometric 
things like that. 

620
00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:39,200
So I wanted to get your idea of 
like how important to you is 

621
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,500
that or does that just seemed 
like science fiction. 

622
00:39:42,300 --> 00:39:45,200
So You touch that, two different
topics. 

623
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,500
What is the identity proofing? 
So in addition the Enterprise 

624
00:39:48,500 --> 00:39:52,700
World basically the proofing 
actually happens before 

625
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:58,800
Enterprise user comes into the 
corporate right now. 

626
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,600
You need to basically go through
all the background, check all of

627
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:08,100
that and then we use a hedgehog 
system and then typically We 

628
00:40:08,100 --> 00:40:12,700
Trust once you are in the HR 
System when it comes to the path

629
00:40:12,700 --> 00:40:16,700
for Less you talk about you know
that that's it's a different 

630
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:18,500
way. 
How I see it. 

631
00:40:18,900 --> 00:40:23,300
The password is basically again 
we all need to move towards 

632
00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:27,300
password is because we all know 
that passwords are not secured 

633
00:40:27,700 --> 00:40:32,900
way authenticating for the 
password list, you know? 

634
00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:38,600
I mean will you talk not like 
it's it is not only just for the

635
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:43,600
human user site, you know. 
As you see a lot of means, you 

636
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,000
know, like when they're like, 
you know, providers like a 

637
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:51,000
Google or Microsoft, they are 
moving towards a concept called 

638
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,500
manage Identity or manage 
account. 

639
00:40:53,900 --> 00:40:59,500
So they want to be able to 
basically have these, you know, 

640
00:40:59,500 --> 00:41:04,100
identities become password as 
because they don't want to be in

641
00:41:04,100 --> 00:41:08,700
a business of maintaining the 
credential and then putting a 

642
00:41:08,700 --> 00:41:11,400
burden on the app teams to 
actually live for Dating the 

643
00:41:11,408 --> 00:41:14,400
credentials. 
They want to actually provide 

644
00:41:15,500 --> 00:41:18,500
required resource axis at the 
same time. 

645
00:41:18,500 --> 00:41:24,500
Also bind it to a resource so 
that you are focusing on just 

646
00:41:24,500 --> 00:41:28,700
getting the access you need. 
And getting the access that you 

647
00:41:28,700 --> 00:41:32,900
know, you need to the right 
resources at the right time and 

648
00:41:33,300 --> 00:41:37,600
you know, moving the burden of 
like taking out the burden of 

649
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,600
liquor as if you look at 
traditionally like Help the 

650
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,800
on-prem. 
You know, you have a separate 

651
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:48,200
account, you need to Walt it. 
Inactive, make sure that you are

652
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,800
rotating it. 
And all of that is lot of 

653
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,900
overhead and, you know, for the 
Humanities as possible is 

654
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,300
definitely the way to go. 
I would see that as more and 

655
00:42:01,300 --> 00:42:05,400
more applications and more and 
more Systems Support it. 

656
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,700
I think the password is is the 
code. 

657
00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:10,900
It's, it's the most secure way 
off. 

658
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:16,100
Authenticated, that's how I see.
So I'm going to ask you to put 

659
00:42:16,100 --> 00:42:18,800
on your prediction hat here. 
I'm not going to hold you to it,

660
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:24,100
but when do you think at least 
for, for for your organization? 

661
00:42:24,100 --> 00:42:26,300
When do you think you'll be 
ready to introduce password 

662
00:42:26,300 --> 00:42:30,700
lists for your customers or for 
your internal Workforce? 

663
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,600
Like what is your timing feel 
like, right now we already use 

664
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,600
possible lists for into the 
Enterprise users. 

665
00:42:37,900 --> 00:42:41,700
So we are trying to expand that 
school, right? 

666
00:42:41,700 --> 00:42:46,400
You know, because if you look at
it like, you know, Password is 

667
00:42:47,900 --> 00:42:51,500
it is something that I have 
solved, so should be in a 

668
00:42:51,508 --> 00:42:56,300
position to accept that, right? 
Not all the applications are 

669
00:42:56,300 --> 00:43:00,500
ready to accept the password. 
As we already have certain 

670
00:43:00,500 --> 00:43:04,200
applications password as we 
already have roll this out to 

671
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:11,000
show real users internally and 
you know, I see in the next 

672
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,800
couple of years, it's going to 
be widely adopted for witness 

673
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,100
different up. 
Vacations. 

674
00:43:17,100 --> 00:43:21,300
I think this is more on the 
vendors to become a password is 

675
00:43:21,300 --> 00:43:25,100
complying, but we all know that 
a lot of banks love their main 

676
00:43:25,100 --> 00:43:27,400
frames. 
So I'm sure IBM and rack F, and 

677
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,000
top secret. 
And all those words are are hot 

678
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,100
on the trail getting password 
list, enables part of their 

679
00:43:32,100 --> 00:43:36,000
authentication stack, I will put
you on the fire, you know, to 

680
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,600
answer that. 
But that's just my into sense. 

681
00:43:40,100 --> 00:43:42,800
What are some tips that people 
can take away if I'm in 

682
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,000
financial services and I'm 
listening to this? 

683
00:43:46,100 --> 00:43:47,700
And maybe they thought about it,
maybe they haven't. 

684
00:43:47,700 --> 00:43:50,700
But from your perspective, what 
are some tips when it comes to 

685
00:43:50,700 --> 00:43:54,000
Identity and access management 
that you think people in your 

686
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:55,800
industry should be thinking 
about? 

687
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:01,500
Yeah, my tip is going to be, you
know, Tink beyond the compliance

688
00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:05,800
requirements, right? 
You know, we need to be more 

689
00:44:05,900 --> 00:44:11,600
cognizant of the threat 
landscape and make sure that, 

690
00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:15,400
you know, we are aware of the 
risks out there, think about and

691
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:21,900
Beyond the bid minimum article 
compliance requirements, but I 

692
00:44:21,900 --> 00:44:26,000
would say, you know, is going to
be the number one people that I 

693
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,400
can recommend. 
And it's not only for myself or 

694
00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:33,600
other folks as well. 
Better security improve helps 

695
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,100
everybody. 
I would imagine a business. 

696
00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:37,900
So you know, the rising tide 
lifts all boats. 

697
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,600
Let's go ahead and start to wrap
up the conversation. 

698
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,200
There could have been super 
generous with your time. 

699
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,300
It is a Friday after actually 
almost evening. 

700
00:44:44,300 --> 00:44:47,100
It's five o'clock on a I so want
you to get on with your with 

701
00:44:47,100 --> 00:44:49,900
your weekend, but before we go. 
Wow. 

702
00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:52,900
Let's end on a lighter note. 
And here's what I got for us 

703
00:44:52,900 --> 00:44:56,900
this week, would you rather go 
into the past and meet your 

704
00:44:56,900 --> 00:45:00,700
ancestors or go into the future 
and meet your 

705
00:45:00,700 --> 00:45:03,600
great-great-grandchildren 
trainee? 

706
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,200
You're the guest of honor will 
start with you first. 

707
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,000
I would like to keep the past in
the past. 

708
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:13,900
I don't want to look back. 
I wanted to ride it actually 

709
00:45:13,900 --> 00:45:17,400
look into the future and And I 
want to meet Mike then 

710
00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:21,400
grandkids. 
Jim are you? 

711
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,600
Yeah I mean you know me like the
first thing that came to mind 

712
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:31,700
was like the past because it's 
just like I'm I'm into history, 

713
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:37,900
I'd like to see how people lived
but Man just thinking about like

714
00:45:37,900 --> 00:45:41,200
the future and seeing what the 
world was like in the future and

715
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:45,100
seeing you know how? 
Well, first off, I guess if you 

716
00:45:45,100 --> 00:45:48,600
have grandkids or great 
grandkids then you know, hey you

717
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:53,700
did all right, you guys, you 
know, the world didn't implode 

718
00:45:53,900 --> 00:45:57,400
and I'm going to let you go into
the future. 

719
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,400
It's like some kind of like 
Terminator scenario where it's 

720
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,300
like him, we're trying to stay 
positive, man. 

721
00:46:03,700 --> 00:46:04,900
Come on. 
Killing me here. 

722
00:46:04,900 --> 00:46:08,200
Hey, the episode Almost ended 
and it was all positive. 

723
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:13,100
So I had to bring it back down 
to reality, you know, if there 

724
00:46:13,100 --> 00:46:16,100
was an apocalypse scenario, I 
really wouldn't want to be there

725
00:46:16,100 --> 00:46:18,000
for that. 
Yeah, I know we have our issues.

726
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,100
That's our next podcast is 
apocalypse, talk with Jim 

727
00:46:21,100 --> 00:46:25,300
McDonald. 
So yeah, it's Jim McDonald. 

728
00:46:25,700 --> 00:46:27,500
Yeah. 
So I better get out there and 

729
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:29,300
live while the world still 
going. 

730
00:46:29,300 --> 00:46:33,500
So, I'm going to just say future
and move on. 

731
00:46:33,900 --> 00:46:37,400
Okay, so I wonder if this is Is 
if when you answer this 

732
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,200
question, if it relates if you 
have children or not, I don't 

733
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,200
have children. 
But I still would go into the 

734
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,000
future, not because I want to 
meet my great grandchildren 

735
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,400
because like you Jim and I think
maybe she is like I want to see 

736
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,300
what the world is like, right? 
Do we get to the Star Trek you 

737
00:46:51,300 --> 00:46:54,900
know, phase yet and you know in 
the next let's say 100 years 200

738
00:46:54,900 --> 00:46:58,000
years worth of that looks like 
you know, with life expectancies

739
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,300
going longer, maybe that 
extends, what a great, great 

740
00:47:01,300 --> 00:47:05,300
grandchild, you know, might look
like from an age or distance 

741
00:47:05,300 --> 00:47:09,800
perspective, from where Right 
now, I'm a future. 

742
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:11,500
I'm with this rainy. 
I'm not going to the past past 

743
00:47:11,500 --> 00:47:13,200
has passed. 
Jim, I'm a little surprised. 

744
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,300
I thought for sure you would 
want it. 

745
00:47:15,300 --> 00:47:18,900
You you would, you would, you 
would go between the two, but 

746
00:47:18,900 --> 00:47:21,500
you would end up on the past 
because of your love for 

747
00:47:21,500 --> 00:47:23,600
documentaries. 
So you. 

748
00:47:24,100 --> 00:47:27,400
Yeah. 
So I surprise you but, you know,

749
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,400
here's the thing about the past 
I always think about is that 

750
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:37,900
probably I'd be dead in the past
because I'm almost 50 and like, 

751
00:47:37,900 --> 00:47:41,800
people did you know, the further
back in the past are a lot fewer

752
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,400
50 year olds. 
You know, people who are 60 or 

753
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:49,200
over consider very wise because,
like, they basically live well 

754
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:53,700
beyond their life expectancy. 
So I'd be like the really old 

755
00:47:53,700 --> 00:47:57,000
dude in the past. 
Jim you just did. 

756
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,300
You did it again. 
You took it to the morbid tip. 

757
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,400
Thanks for thanks for that. 
We're going to go ahead and show

758
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,800
everyone. 
I gotta leave it there for this 

759
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,300
week. 
SRI, thank you so much for being

760
00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:09,700
part of this. 
We like to put our guests, a 

761
00:48:09,700 --> 00:48:13,300
LinkedIn into our show notes so 
hopefully that's okay, people 

762
00:48:13,300 --> 00:48:14,700
have questions. 
Maybe your things that they 

763
00:48:14,707 --> 00:48:16,700
might have reached out to you. 
Hopefully you're open to that. 

764
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,800
Is that all right? 
Yep, of course I have in front 

765
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,200
of, you know, thousands of 
people who are listening so they

766
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:29,400
know they know let's see as far 
as we go, you can visit us on 

767
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,900
the web where idac podcast.com. 
We're on Twitter at. 

768
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,300
See podcast we're also on 
Macedon and idea see podcast at 

769
00:48:37,300 --> 00:48:41,000
infosec that exchange Jim and I 
always love to engage with 

770
00:48:41,100 --> 00:48:43,900
listeners got a lot of actually 
great messages this week 

771
00:48:44,100 --> 00:48:49,100
including a book that one of our
listeners wrote so I have just 

772
00:48:49,100 --> 00:48:51,600
started it I got through the 
first chapter on my flight today

773
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:56,600
so I'm intrigued and I will 
maybe be giving a book review 

774
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:00,200
here in a couple episodes so 
that was kind of cool but given 

775
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,400
all is a gym and I was like to 
connect on LinkedIn with folks. 

776
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,500
So feel free. 
A show on your show ideas, you 

777
00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:06,400
know, whatever you've got for 
us. 

778
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,700
We're happy to bring it to the 
show and don't forget about our 

779
00:49:08,700 --> 00:49:11,600
identifiers discount code. 
It's idv. 

780
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,000
Icen, 20! 
I'll have it in our show notes 

781
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:16,400
as well. 
Get you 20% off your 

782
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,500
registration and you can use 
that to do an Uber black or 

783
00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:23,200
however you think you can. 
You know, finagle that 20% back 

784
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,100
into your own pocket. 
I'm not saying you should just 

785
00:49:25,100 --> 00:49:28,300
saying, you know, there's an 
option there and then don't 

786
00:49:28,300 --> 00:49:30,600
forget to subscribe and, you 
know, rate the show that always 

787
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:31,800
helps us. 
That's the number one. 

788
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,300
We can help us. 
You know, grow and continue to 

789
00:49:34,300 --> 00:49:37,500
share with other folks. 
So with that we will go ahead 

790
00:49:37,500 --> 00:49:40,400
and leave it for this week. 
Thanks for any thanks Jim. 

791
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,900
Let's start the weekend and 
we'll talk with everyone in the 

792
00:49:42,900 --> 00:49:46,300
next one. 
You've been listening to 

793
00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:50,400
Identity at the center. 
We hope you've enjoyed the show,

794
00:49:50,500 --> 00:49:54,800
make sure to like rate and 
review and we'll be back soon, 

795
00:49:54,900 --> 00:49:58,300
but in the meantime, hit the 
website at identity at the 

796
00:49:58,300 --> 00:50:03,000
center.com and find us on 
Twitter at idac. 

797
00:50:03,100 --> 00:50:08,700
See podcast, see you next time 
on identity at the center