This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with
IAM, this is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and
Jeff Stedman. Welcome to the Identity at the
Center podcast. I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff, how are you?
Oh, not so bad yourself. I'm doing great.
Happy New Year, buddy. Yeah, Happy New Year. 2023 was a
great year for the podcast, but I did want to point out December
was a banner month. It sure was.
It goes against every single historical marker or trend, but
we literally had our best month ever and not even close in the
month of December. So we definitely ended 23 on a
high note. So it sets the bar that much
higher for us this year. That's good.
I mean, every year's been better than the year previous.
And I mean really all the credit goes to our listeners, right?
I mean, we can. There's nothing about these
statistics that are because of things we're doing right.
It's the people that are are listening and and energizing us
to keep doing the show. And sharing the show with
others. It's amazing how people talk to
It's like, oh, I didn't know that that thing existed.
Yep, here we are doing our thing, 4 1/2 years later, still
figuring it out. And behind the curtains here,
right, it's we always record the show a few days early, so
today's our first day back to work.
It's always hard the first day back from work, isn't it, After
you have a long vacation? Yeah, I don't remember what
identity and Access Management is.
I'm like, trying to figure it out.
I'm like, what is it? What's my job?
What do I do here? What do I even know?
Yeah, it was exactly in a fog for the last week or so.
Now another behind the scenes is that we recorded next, the next
episode in December, right? It was with Phil Windley.
He wrote a book called Learning Digital Identity.
It's an awesome book, Big fanboy.
And he turned around and gave us 5 codes that people can use, our
listeners can use for downloading an ebook version of
the book. And so there's only five of
them, right? So we have to come up with a
good way to give them away. And what we came up with is that
now we've got this cool new voicemail functionality that
we've been thinking, how do we get people to call up to the
voicemail and leave a message with a question that we can then
take that question and play it on an episode and then answer
it. So what we came up with is we'll
take five of the questions that people leave on the voicemail
and we'll use those during an episode that will drop on
February 5th. And so given that, why don't you
tell people how to leave the voicemail?
Because I don't think that part is abundantly clear yet.
OK, so this is relatively new. I added this to the site in
December. I think maybe it was November.
If you go to the website idacpodcast.com right on the
homepage you're going to see a little flyer that comes out from
the right says talk to us. You just click that and you'll
see a little microphone check and you just start talking and
it will send your voice message over to Jim and myself.
The other way you can get to it is if you go to the contact page
on our website idacpodcast.com, you'll see on the right hand
side of the screen there as well a talk to us kind of section,
same idea, send us a question, a comment, a concern, how you want
to be cooked if you're a potato or prepared as potato.
Whatever it is, we'll we'll pick the the five that we like the
best and use them on the show. So you'll want to listen to that
episode and we'll hopefully have some some good entrance as we go
through that. But that's how you do it.
Just go to the website, click the Talk to US banner on the
right hand side and there you go.
Yeah. And I would say that, you know,
obviously we have the the Book contest right now, but that
voicemail feature is always available and think we get good
questions. We'll keep doing that.
Yeah, I mean, that's what that's always fun to answer kind of
live questions and you know, you can drop them all over the
LinkedIn, but if we can play it out of the audio on the show,
even better. We've tried this in the past,
didn't really have a lot of uptake, but we'll see if this
this new version is easier for people to use and we'll go from
there. Yeah, fantastic.
So what's today's episode about? We're going to talk about
Chrysalis 4, and this is a conference that's coming up in
the next couple of weeks here. And to help us with that
conversation, I want to welcome back Gary Rowe.
He's the CEO and founder of Tech Vision Research.
He's also the former president of Burton Group, former Co
president of Gartner for technical Professionals or GTP
for people in the know. He's also been on the show with
us, which is why I said welcome back.
He was with us in episode 174. This is episode 253.
Last time we talked was Chrysalis 2022.
That was October of 22. Welcome back to the show, Gary.
Well, thanks and great to be on again.
I loved it a year or so ago when we were on and I really
appreciate the the opportunity to join you guys again.
Well, thanks for taking the time with us.
And I'm going to point people back to episode 174.
Normally, our first question is how did you get into world of
Identity? You've already answered that.
So we're not going to put you through that again.
Go back, listen to episode 174 if you want to know Gary's
origin story. We talked about Chrysalis last
time. We're talking about Chrysalis
again. I guess tell me a little bit
about the conference itself. You know, what is it?
And what is the sort of overarching goal that we're
trying to get out of it this year?
So the conference is an end user focused large enterprise
conference that takes a hard, pragmatic look at identity,
security, governance and privacy and looks at recommendations for
large organizations where we believe the industry should be
going. And it provides a bit of a
platform for large enterprises that are trying to make
architecture planning decisions going forward.
Dan, you've got kind of a who's who list and and we've got some
questions to kind of see that coming up.
But you know, right off the bat, just so people know, when is the
conference, where is it and how much is the cost?
So the conference is January 16th to 17th.
It is a virtual event, so everybody anywhere can
participate. It costs $399, but we are
offering a 50% discount to those that follow you guys and I
believe the code is IDAC 24 and if you put that in when you
register, you get 50% off the attendance fee.
Yeah, but listening to the podcast has its privileges,
right? But Gary, who's the conference
for? Is it for people who've been in
the industry for 20 years plus? It's it is for decision makers,
architects, certainly experienced people, but also
folks that are really trying to understand this in a very
concentrated fashion, primarily focused on large organizations
that are trying to figure this out.
You know, how How does Identity support some of your security
goals? How does that tie in with your
governance models? What's the impact of new
technologies that are that are being introduced?
So there's a set of recommendations and perspectives
specifically for large enterprises.
So first of all, I I don't want to gloss over the code, 'cause
that's very cool. Thank you for the code.
IDAC 2 Four gets you 200 bucks off, Nothing to sneeze at, for
sure. Membership has his privileges, I
guess if you're part of the IDAC crew, right?
And by crew, I mean listening audience, it's virtual.
I guess if for people who can't attend, and I'll be honest, I
can't attend, 'cause I'm actually going to be on flights
and traveling those days. Is there something that I can do
to kind of catch up after the fact?
You know what's the virtual environment look like?
Yeah, absolutely. Everybody who registers for the
conference will also, after the fact, have access to all of the
videos from from the event. So you can you can do it in real
time, or if there are certain sessions you say can't attend,
you can review them afterwards. So Garrett's looking at the
agenda and I mean these topics like they are sucking me and I
can't wait to attend and I'm not sure if I can attend all of
these topics or if you have to pick and choose, maybe you can
talk us through that, But the first one that caught my eye was
modernization. You will talk a little bit about
the the modernization theme. Sure.
So one of the one of the first sessions we have is this next
generation Identity and Access management foundation.
And as as an analyst firm, we we've spent a lot of time
tracking, wrote a lot of research, worked with a lot of
clients on the consulting side with this phenomenon that we're
seeing now, which is a lot of the big vendors are taking you
know, classic identity in access management, identity governance
administration, Privileged access management and other
capabilities and trying to build them into one cohesive platform.
So large enterprises are at a decision point.
Now do we, do we stick with you know our preferred Pam and IGA
an IAM solution or do we look to one of these consolidated
platform solutions. So we'll have a session that
will dive into this and look at some of the pros and cons and
you know assess you know where Microsoft Intra is and where
Okta is with their expansion and where Cyber Ark is and where you
know the Toma Bravo, you know contingent of companies, where
they are and how they may fit in terms of the capabilities that
they're offering in the time frame that they're offering as
opposed to other standalone solutions.
So that's that's a real important area that frankly
almost every one of our clients is, is trying to figure out now.
So that's a key early session of AT Chrysalis this year.
So I hear next Gen. throwing around quite a bit.
I guess help me understand what does next Gen. even mean?
Because I think we needed to decide as an industry, what does
that term even mean because it could mean modernization, it
could mean convergence, right? You talk a little bit like
platforms kind of coming together, right?
Things like that. There's certainly the AI thing
sitting out in the corner that is staring at us.
Define next Gen., Like, what does it mean to you?
Wow. You're you're really nailing me.
The the the advantage of of at least partly writing for a
living is you have a little flexibility when you use terms
like that, you're you're not gonna let me do that.
So next Gen. to me is, you know, when you think about identity,
any large organization, remember that's what we're focused on.
So any large organization if you're going to make substantive
changes, an organization's ability to actually execute on
those changes typically years. So we have to be looking forward
in terms of you know where these technologies are going, where
the vendors are going, where the market is going because you know
if you're planning on kind of best of breed today by time it's
fully implemented and deployed and executed and integrated into
your applications. It may be several years down the
road. So.
So by next generation it's it's this kind of forward-looking
perspective, it's trying to put the right stakes in the ground
in a reasonable time frame. It's usually.
It's usually a year or two. What are the kind of folks that
you get in these sessions? Is it mostly panels or is it
presenters? And then I'm also wondering
like, is this going to be the conference where like quote, UN
quote news breaks that something.
It's said that you're like, wow, I've actually never heard that
before. This is new information.
You brought the Tom Bravo piece and I saw that you have Andre at
the conference. Like, are you like expecting or
at least hopeful that there's going to be some news that
drops? I I I'm absolutely hopeful.
I never fully expect. But you know the the focus is on
trying to solve some of these problems and trying to you know
as an industry really work through what are the right
directions for organizations to take.
Most of the sessions will be panel sessions.
So you know if you look at the panels and you look at you know
some of the just deep thinkers and and folks that really have
driven our industry that are on those panels.
I'm very hopeful that we will come up with some new things, we
will come up with some better solutions.
We'll work work through some of these, you know, challenges you
know as as a group and you know always focusing on you know what
what is best for large enterprises.
Yeah. You know one of the things I
think is like if you get those panels and not everybody agrees
that's where not that you want to have like a Jerry Springer or
anything, right. We're not going to get that in a
in a identity conference. But if there's a little bit of
difference of opinion, maybe you know, hey, some folks are coming
from the perspective of the practitioner, other folks are
coming from the product perspective.
But I thought really what could be interesting about the
modernization is you really see a tidal wave of new technology
not only in our space but in all the other IT spaces.
It kind of feels like digital identity has the job onto itself
just to keep up with the fast pace of what's happening, you
know, in the cloud, in enterprise IT in general.
So I'm really like I said, really interested in that
modernization track. You know, Jeff touched on
convergence and the other theme that really jumped out at me was
artificial intelligence. And it wouldn't be an episode of
identity at the center or artificial intelligence at the
center if we didn't bring this up.
So I mean, this is a big theme, right?
This is pervasive beyond IT, right?
This is like people are talking about this at the bar over a
couple of beers. How?
How's it going to affect or or? How does that theme fit into
Chrysalis? So it fits in in in a couple of
ways. Like I mentioned earlier, the in
almost every session we're going to have a lot of really smart
people discussing and debating these things, answering
questions, trying to, you know, pontificate about where things
should be going in almost every session.
I think it would be, it would look naive.
It would almost be impossible not to be looking at artificial
intelligence and generative AI and big data and how decisions
are made and so forth. So that'll be infused into
virtually every session and identity and security and
governance. We also have a separate panel
discussion that looks at the impact of artificial
intelligence and as we all know, good and bad as it applies to
security, as it applies to identity and governance.
And like on that panel will have a lady I've been fortunate
enough to collaborate with over the years.
Barbara Starr was one of the top artificial intelligence people
in the world. I mean, she did a lot of the the
DARPA work over the last 20 years that developed a lot of
the foundation that ended up, you know, resulting in in Siri
and a lot of the, you know, AI technologies we we kind of take
for granted at this point. She's also done a lot of
security work. We'll also have on in this
particular session, Diana Kelly, who I, I, I, I'm sure you guys
know and have worked with, you know, over over a period of
time. She's not only a security
expert, she's doing a lot of work in in artificial
intelligence and security. Now we also have Chris Wolf, who
I had the pleasure to work with at Burton Group A long time ago,
but Chris now runs AI at VM Ware.
So we'll have that perspective. And then another former
colleague of mine, It's the advantage of being pretty old
and having been in the industry a long time, almost everyone
I've worked with at some point. But we'll have Nick Nichols on
that panel who runs the security area at Open Text now and it it
and identity is within that, but it's done a lot of innovative
work and and we'll have another perspective on artificial
intelligence and generative AI and how that kind of fits into
this model. So you know we'll have a great
team, we'll dive into this deeply.
You know, I want to make sure when we when we look at AI
though that we look at it with with the proper perspective, you
know it's it's not going to solve all problems and
artificial intelligence and machine learning in general,
it's it's sometimes wrong. And you know if we want to make
very prescriptive decisions solely based on you know AI and
machine learning generated data, we need to be careful.
So we need to be thinking of the governance and so forth, you
know, around that. Yeah, it's I I I think AI is one
of those battlegrounds where it's going to become a
differentiator for a lot of organizations.
And I, you know, who is the best AI in quotation marks?
And I think that's one of the attacks that we're starting to
see, even early on, is poisoning the models that are being used
to generate that kind of stuff. I want to take it down a level,
though, 'cause that's super serious stuff.
Tell me about Gary, the writer who does this for a living.
How do you see AI? Do you see it helping you?
You know, write your research. Write.
Blogs, articles, things like that.
Is it cheating? And I asked because I use it
quite a bit. I'm a big fan of it, but I
certainly recognize the challenge around it.
But I I'm always curious to people who actually write for a
living, how do they view AI in the context of, you know, what
you do for a living? I think it it it can be
extremely helpful and useful. I haven't personally leveraged
it that much in terms of my writing yet.
I've used it for some primary research, but then I'll pick an
example. An area that should have covered
for the last 6-7 years is the area of verifiable credentials
and decentralized identity. And you know when you when you
do some ChatGPT you know requests in that area it it
gives you a lot of older data. And you know so for things that
are moving really quickly and there's lots of changes that
will improve over time of course.
But you know as so for certain things it's it's not quite as
useful. But for some general research,
if you're trying to get up to speed on a new topic, you know,
I think that's really important. And you know there there is an
opportunity for analysts, for writers to basically get a level
set pretty quickly especially if it's something new that you're
trying to research and understand and then kind of
interpret that data and you know make your decision you know as
an analyst as to what really is correct and and and what what
might need some some additional research.
Kind of strikes me of like, when I was growing up, Pluto was a
planet and then it wasn't. So for longest time I was like,
oh, well, Pluto's a planet. So it is.
And then. And then the facts changed.
It no longer was a planet. And I, I don't know.
Is it a planet again? I don't.
I think there's some some movement I think to move it
back. But it strikes me as that same
kind of data model that you talked about where it maybe
doesn't know recent things like you said.
That'll get better over time, right?
Comes more real time, that kind of thing, But I think that's
kind of a cautionary tale for people.
If you take the data today at face value, you're not doing
fact checking. You end up in the news for a for
a variety of different reasons. Lots of people are citing legal
arguments, for example, that never took place, right?
Things like that. So I I I did a lot of work 6-7
eight years ago and you know beginning to look at distributed
Ledger blockchain technology and associated with blockchain it
are smart contracts and to me how 1 uses generative AI is kind
of like a smart contract. There's, there's some regulatory
issues. There's if you're actually
executing automatically based on like with the smart contract,
based on if this and this then that, then execute then I'm
agreeing you know on this, on this contract to purchase
something or whatever to buy some commodity, There's some
risk associated with that. And it's the same thing with
generative AI. You know, we get to a point
where there's a there's a set of recommendations, there's you
know, big part of AI is predictive analytics.
We want to kind of figure out what's going to happen at some
point in the future. But to be able to interpret
that, to be able to contextualize that I think is is
important for some period of time.
You know one of the and and Barbara will will talk about
this a little bit. You know, at Chrysalis, one of
the challenges that artificial intelligence has is being able
to explain how it reached the conclusion that it reached
explainable AI. And you know, that's that
there's a lot of work to be done to to try to figure that out.
So you can say, you know here, here's what you should do at a
point in time, But depending on the decision, if it's a security
area, the risk involved and so forth, you probably want to look
into it a little bit more, at least based on where it is right
now. I think it's a fascinating
space. I think it keeps changing.
So trying to keep up with it is almost a little bit of a fool's
errand. But I I have on record on this
podcast of being very bullish of how AI is going to impact the
identity space. Specifically, you mentioned
earlier and kind of teased some of the names that are speaking
at the conference, and you have these concepts of legends
panels, right? So you've got an identity legend
panel, you've got a security Legends paddle with some, I'll
be honest, some really good gets, as we say in the business,
right? For for speakers.
I guess my question is, one, who decides who the legends are?
And then two, tell me a little bit about these panels, the
identity legends, the security legends panels.
Like what's the point of those conversations and what are you
expecting for people to get out of those?
So the the decision is is made first by by by me and our
analyst team, you know and and I think if you look at some of the
names and kind of their histories, I mean there's lots
of legends out there, but it would be hard to argue that that
any of the ones that are on either the Identity or Security
legends panel shouldn't be there.
So on the on the identity panel, I'll, I don't necessarily
consider myself a legend, but I'll kind of choreograph it.
And we've had some amazing people.
We've had Jamie Lewis and Kim, Kim Cameron, a lot of folks on
past Legends panels. But it gets back to the core
premise that you know there's a lot of information out there,
but you know if you're making a decision, certainly in the
security and risk side, that could could cost your cost, your
organization everything. If there's a major breach or if
there's some some problem on the identity side, it certainly
could lead to major problems or major opportunities.
If you if you do it correctly, you want to have the best in the
industry for for these recommendations.
So for example, on the Identity Legends panel, we have Andre
Durand who has been in the space.
He's a little younger than me, but almost as long as I have,
you know, built up Ping Identity did did a conference called
Digital ID World before that did Identivers.
You know, he's been in the middle of this space.
And you know, from my perspective, you know, Andre is
one of the good guys. He wants to do the right things
for the industry, wants to build companies and do all the things
business people do. But you know, he he really gets
it. We have Eve Mailer who you know
with CTO for years at Ford Rock. She's been in the middle of this
space. She, you know has she was with
Forrester before that. She from an analyst perspective,
from an understanding of identity, from a user centric
perspective is an absolute superstar.
We have Lori Robinson, who runs Identity at Salesforce.com.
Now, Laurie has been, you know, in the middle of this space.
I had the pleasure to work with her at Burton Group over over
the years. She's one of the top thought
leaders at Gartner and now actually driving things at at
Salesforce. Kevin Campman who's part of Tech
Vision Kevin, Kevin was was with us from the early days at Burton
Group and he is probably, if you want to find the top IGA person
in the world, Kevin has covered that forever.
But we have Martin Coppinger and and Martin has you know he's
built I believe the premier research firm that focuses on
identity and security and governance in Europe over the
years built, you know some fantastic conferences and is one
of the thought leaders you know in our industry.
So you know that's that's on the, that's on the identity
side. Do you want me to talk about the
Security Legends panel as well? Yeah, please.
In this area we've been extremely fortunate again.
We have on this panel several current and past Chief
Information Security officers and they're making a lot of the
the the hard decisions. I'll start with Malcolm Harkins.
Malcolm was the long time Chief Information Security Officer at
Intel really before being a SISO was was even a thing and really
LED them over the years a great speaker, a great thinker in this
area. We have Alex Toshev who is the
Chief Information Security Officer at VM Ware and well
known in in our industry not only for what he's done at VM
Ware but a lot of the Silicon Valley companies he's he's
helped and and and driven over the years.
We have Steve Roberts who is the Chief Information Security
Officer at Honda and Steve actually spoke with us last year
as well and did a did did a fantastic job.
We have Fred Cohen who is probably the, the, the deepest
thinker that that I've ever, you know dealt with in the
cybersecurity space. You also don't know exactly what
he's going to say, which which makes it makes it a lot of fun
and makes it very entertaining. But to give you a sense for
Fred, and he's work worked with me at Burton Group years ago,
but but Fred in his doctoral thesis back in the early 80s was
the first one to develop the concept of computer viruses.
And he correlated computer viruses with biological
developed a lot of the early remediation, you know, software
and so forth. And then Diana Kelly who most
people know she's she was also with us at Burton Group A great
analyst. She she was was a security
leader at IBM and Microsoft and now she's working with Protect
AI focused in you know some of the areas that that that we've
been talking about. So you know I, I I know from my
perspective if I'm going to go to an event and I'm going to
spend my time and I'm going to listen to people.
I want to listen to people who have that level of credibility
and when they say something, you know, I'm really going to listen
and get something out of it. Sounds like Crystal's going to
be a fantastic conference. I hope all of our listeners get
a chance to attend again that. Discount code.
Yeah, we got to push that out
there one more time. It'll be in our DAC 24.
Yeah, it'll be in the show notes.
So what do you have Gary, planned beyond the conference?
What we want to do is take a lot of what we're what we're
discussing at the conference and and we were very intentional
wanting to have it right at the beginning of the year 'cause I
think this can represent a great planning foundation for large
enterprises. But that will then drive our
research theme for the year. So you know we'll continue to
expand upon these topics, build build upon it a lot of coverage
of course on generative AI and artificial intelligence and its
impact in these areas. Kevin Campman and I are about
85% of the way done with which would be a great document on
identity governance and administration and and we just
concluded you know big consulting project on that.
That's an important part of our research is and our conference
is you know to do a lot of the hands on work to be you know at
at client environments that are trying to figure these things
out. You get kind of a pragmatic
perspective that's difficult to get just you know pulling
information together in in doing research.
So you know one of the things Kevin talks a lot about which
which I find interesting and we'll expand upon in our IGA
document and probably some some additional work this year is the
human element. And the fact that when we, when
we look at IGA, of course you know there are vendors that have
IGA products and we think about it as a product, but it's a
process and it needs to fit into.
You know if you think about digital and where it has gone
over the years, one of the biggest challenges is how do we
govern this, how do we manage it.
And it's not just on the identity side, it's what Kevin
will call Big G Big governance. How do we instantiate policies,
how do we ensure that those policies make their way through
the identity systems and the security systems and and and so
on. We'll continue to do a lot of
focus on the research we just published our document on the
future of identity management. But we have a a top 12 list
there of areas that enterprises at least in our opinion should
should look to invest in. And we we kind of prioritize
those starting with governance, going to the this consolidated
platform to AI and machine learning and figuring out how to
leverage that better integrating some of these capabilities and
so forth. And so we'll continue to push
out the research agenda, you know, push out our consulting,
but stay focused on this next generation of identity, security
and governance And you know how enterprises should should be
dealing with this as as you've pointed out given given the
change we have and it's not just in generative AI, just the
change that we have throughout you know, handling the scale
that we need to handle now, handling, you know, increased
regulatory controls and privacy controls and so forth, Lots and
lots of challenges out there which I think will keep us busy
for the next year. I like this idea of what I'm
gonna call working media, right. I mean you're you've got your
firm you're doing, you know this research stuff of that.
But you also do the consulting and Jim and I have this podcast
and we also do the consulting, right?
We it, we're not theoretical scientists when it comes to
identity. We're very much in the weeds
with, you know, each of our customers learning from them
what are the challenges are being faced in the real world.
Which to be, to be honest, I find that refreshing personally
because I'm not in an ivory tower dealing with, well, this
is the way it should be and in the real world, that's not the
Hawaii, it works right. The real world's messy.
There's politics. There's budgets.
There's this old app that we've tried to get rid of for 20 years
that is never going anywhere. And so you gotta plan around
that. So I I really enjoy those kind
of conversations and I love it when people bring so the real
life right into the conversation as well.
It's kind of kind of what you referenced before.
Yeah, we're definitely of like minds there.
You know, I think it it is, you know, in the end enterprises
need to build these things, architect them and deploy them.
And you know, it's not just speeds and feeds.
It's, you know, what works, How do you deploy it, how do you
integrate it and how does that tie in with your business?
You know, because in the end, a couple of years ago when when
Eve Mailer was on an earlier Identity Legends panel, one of
the things you know, she, she highlighted, which is kind of
stuck with me is, you know, like like us folks that that look at
identity. You know, we think that this is,
you know, a really big thing. But if you're running a
business, it's not like, you know, you really care about
that. You care about, you know how
quickly a customer gets engaged. You care about how you provision
the right services to the right customers.
You care about the security side.
But this, but you know the kind of integration of the kind of
practical business side with the you know technology helps us,
you know probably is stay focused really you know on the
right thing which is how's your business going to be successful.
And these are all enabling technologies that you know,
hopefully you know improve that bottom line, your customer
relationships, retention and all of those good things.
I like that. I like that comment you made
about you know what Eve said, right?
It the the, the business doesn't necessarily care how things are
getting done as long as they're getting done the risk is low,
right. All those good stuff.
I think that's probably good feedback for everybody.
Everyone thinks there's the most important thing in the world.
No, I this is a lesson I learned.
Serving table, you know, waiting tables way back when.
Your ranch dressing maybe isn't the most important thing in the
world right now. So we'll get to it.
We'll get to it. Gary, you've been really
generous with your time and I want to start to wrap things up,
but it wouldn't be an episode if we didn't end on a lighter note.
And I'm gonna make this one a little bit holiday themed,
'cause I think for the most part, I know you've been busy
towards the end of the year and a lot of people really were like
end of year rush, but hopefully people had some time to kind of
decompress and take some time off.
And typically around the holidays there's probably some
good meals that are taking place, either family or other
things. What's the best thing that you
ate over this most recent holiday break?
Well the best thing I'm I ate was was something I cooked I
must say and it was A and and we had a traditional Turkey and so
forth but especially with with. With my kids, who really love
seafood, I made a pasta Primavera with shrimp, lobster
and crab meat and that was that was a big hit and I must say I
enjoyed it. That's a pretty good roll out
there for sure. Jim, what did you have that was
memorable for food over the break?
Yeah, and I my my item was something I cooked.
Also, it was the first time cooking it.
It was a prime rib. I took a 5 LB prime rib and
roasted it and turned out great. Now The funny thing was, our
friend of the show, Arturo, texted me.
He was doing the same thing but on New Year's.
I said, hey man, I've got the perfect thing. 23 minutes at 350
per pound, 23 minutes per pound. And he wrote me back later,
overcooked. I was like, man, I ruined the
guy's prime rib. But I don't like my meat to be
bleeding out and stuff like that.
So it was, it was pre mellow. It was wonderful.
What about you, Jeff? Honestly, I had a few things and
so I'm selfish. And I came up with this question
and I was like, I I ate good over the break.
My wife is a very good chef and so she made her a bunch of
things We had prime rib for for Christmas Eve dinner.
That was fantastic. We did a ham, but it wouldn't be
me saying something if it wasn't something that wasn't good for
you as a Christmas present. My wife got me the Ninja like
it's like an ice cream blender thing.
I can't remember what it's called.
Basically, you can make your own Blizzards if you're familiar
with Dairy Queen and you drop your ice cream in, You can make
ice cream in it, but you drop your mixins and it does the
whole thing where it mixes together.
And I gotta tell you, we're not sponsored by Ninja, but I would
happily be sponsored by Ninja to talk about this thing all day
long because I have been eating ice cream like every day for
like the last week. So I ordered a peloton today to
replace my old one, but that was by far.
It was like the coolest thing was making your own, like
blizzards at home and it comes out chef's kiss.
I might have to buy one of those.
Yeah, me too. I just got a ninja air fryer.
Air Fryers are the best thing ever.
That That means you can bring fries home and you don't have to
worry about it. Yeah, I've only done a few
things. I just just got it a couple
weeks ago, but yeah, the yearly results are very good.
Yep. Drop them.
You can drop the McDonald's fries in and you put it for
about 3:50 or so for about four minutes.
Crystal them right up tight, man.
We're living good now. So we're talking ice cream,
we're talking fried foods. Yeah.
I and I ordered a peloton rower today.
So that's me getting hopefully into better shape for 2024.
That's a good spot where I think we'll leave it for this week.
Gary, thank you so much for taking the time with us.
Really looking forward to the Chrysalis conference.
For those who haven't registered yet, use our code IDAC 2 Four,
that'll be in our show notes as well.
Take advantage of that. And thank you to Gary for that
partnership and providing that for all of our great listeners
out there. And we'll have links in our show
notes to Gary if you want to ask him questions on LinkedIn to the
Chrysalis event itself, so people can check out the agenda
and stuff like that and register as well as there's a report that
I think you guys are coming up with or maybe it's already out
the future of identity management.
It's sort of like the next five years in 30 to 60 seconds.
Give us like, what is that report about?
So that report is one that we've done each of the past like 6
years and we put together a prioritized list of the areas
that enterprises should be thinking about architecting and
investing in. So we first I had a top ten
list, now we have a top 12 list. It it ties into some of the
macro trends that we talked about earlier.
But, but it's a way that enterprises can basically say,
you know, as we're thinking about our identity program this
year, you know, here's kind of a third party assessment of some
of the things we need to be thinking about.
And so we'll have a link to that in our show notes.
People can check that out as well.
I'm. I love thinking about the
future, so I'm curious to see what's gonna come up out of
this. You know what?
For me, it's like, OK, what should I be thinking about and
what should I not care about? Because I have enough things to
think about. Anything that whittles down what
I need to keep in my brain, I'm always a fan of.
So hopefully there'll be some good Nuggets coming out of that.
You can find us on the web ID acpodcast.com.
Don't forget to use that voicemail button, Start sending
those voicemails in. And lucky, lucky winners that
we'll use on the show for voicemails will get a copy of of
the book that we'll be announcing as well.
So that's from Phil Winley. Jim, what's the name of that
book again? Learning digital identity.
Yeah, yours, everybody. What everybody Who Listens
podcast probably wants to do. Well, you know, kind of a teaser
for the next episode. You know, Phil comes on the show
and and Jim's holding up his book.
Like, look at me, I I've read your book.
It's a heavy book, man. If you read a book that big,
you'd be proud of yourself too. Yeah, I'm not a reader.
I'll wait for the movie. How about that?
I don't think it'll be a mess, mass market kind of thing.
Hey, you never know. Like this podcast, right?
We still continue to grow. You never know, maybe there'll
be an IAM movie at some point. All right, on the web,
idacpodcast.com, on Twitter or X or whatever we're calling it
this year. IDAC Podcast Mastodon at IDAC
Podcast at infosec dot exchange. Feel free to connect with us on
LinkedIn as well, check out our show notes.
And don't forget to, like, subscribe and keep sharing the
the gospel of identity at the center with others.
So appreciate everyone for listening and we'll talk with
everyone in the next one. You've been listening to
Identity at the Center. We hope you've enjoyed the show.
Make sure to like, rate and review and we'll be back soon.
But in the meantime, hit the website at
identity@thecenter.com and find us on Twitter at IDAC Podcast.
See you next time on Identity at the Center.