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This is identity at the center. 
If it has anything to do with I 

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am this is the go-to podcast. 
So if you're a beginner or an 

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expert or anyone in between 
you've found your new home 

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welcome to Identity at the 
center now your host Jim 

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McDonald and Jeff Steadman 
Welcome to the identity of the 

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center podcast. 
I'm Jeff. 

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And this is my co-host, Andy. 
Hi Andy. 

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I Jeff. 
I seem to have been upgraded to 

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co-host. 
That's rather exciting. 

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Yeah, we have a guest spot for 
you today. 

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Jim is on assignment as we like,
to say in the business. 

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So we're fortunate to have you 
back here. 

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Welcome back to the show. 
Andy, thank you. 

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It's always a pleasure to be on.
So, people who aren't familiar 

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with Andy handle, he is the 
identity verse conference chair.

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He's also a board member with 
Kent, our initiative board 

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member with ID Pro and also So 
people may not know this. 

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A real live identity and access 
management consulting by way of 

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hindle Consulting, who's joining
us all the way from England. 

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So, thank you so much for being 
part of this conversation today.

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No, that's a pleasure, and if 
you listen carefully, you can 

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tell that I'm a long way away, 
right? 

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That's the miracle of modern 
audio. 

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It is crazy. 
So you're coming from England 

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and I'm going to be in London, 
in June to watch the Cubs play, 

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the Cardinals and to go to a 
pink concert. 

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I'm not much of a baseball. 
Fan. 

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I'm not much of a pink fan but 
I'm going for the story and as a

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makeup for my trip which was cut
off for canceled, really from 

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the pandemic back in 2020. 
I'm going to be staying 

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downtown. 
I don't know if that's what one 

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calls it, but I'll be in London 
City proper and we're going to 

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try to get together hopefully 
for tea or dinner or something. 

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He where should we go t-west go?
Well there's lots and lots of 

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stuff to see, right? 
Have you been sleepin to the 

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teakettle so if we get, no, I 
No, I've been to Heathrow and 

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then I've been to Framingham and
Windsor, that's it. 

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Well, the best places. 
So yeah, so look if you if you 

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wanted to do kind of the 
quintessential, you know, 

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English high tea experience 
which always makes me laugh 

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because literally Nobody Does 
that. 

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But if you did want to do it I 
would suggest you know there are

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some there are some super famous
places to go right. 

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There's the rates I guess which 
is classic nice claridge's which

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is classic. 
So there are definitely some 

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Some options. 
And yeah if you're if you're 

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around let me know what dates 
and we'll we'll try and get 

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together and do something fun. 
Yeah, that'll be pretty cool. 

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So looking forward to that, I'm 
also looking forward to 

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identifiers which is coming up 
and that's really kind of the 

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reason that we're having this 
conversation today. 

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I guess, for those who aren't 
familiar with identify verse, 

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what is it? 
What is it? 

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That's a good question. 
Is this like a meta verse you 

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know, are we in the VR, what's 
going on here? 

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So, you know, identify this has 
been around now for about 14 

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years, I guess this year started
out as a conference focused 

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Cific Cleon Cloud identity. 
In fact, it used to be called 

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Cloud, identity Summit, and then
it grew over the years. 

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And we realized I want to say, 
like five six years ago, that it

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was, it was more than just Cloud
identity, right? 

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And so, we renamed the thing to 
identify verse and, and so 

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that's that's what it is, right.
It's an annual conference and 

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trade show. 
So, so we've got a big show 

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floor as well, and lots of 
sponsors that really focuses on 

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Digital identity in its broadest
sense. 

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And so we've got lots of 
material that's aimed at, you 

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know, your technical digital 
identity, professional rates, 

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authorization authentication 
provisioning, use a life cycle 

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AGA, like all of those wonderful
things we evidently touch on 

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the, the, to sort of big 
adjacent Industries and so, that

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would be cybersecurity where 
there's some overlap and 

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privacy, right? 
Where there's some, some evident

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intersection as well. 
And everyone I suspect is 

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familiar with several iterations
of what I think was originally 

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Eve, mailers, quote-unquote, 
Venn diagram, that kind of shows

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those those three things 
together, right? 

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Identity security, and privacy, 
or privacy. 

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For those of you that like the 
English pronunciation from the 

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English roots and then what we 
started to do, Little bit over 

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the last couple of years and 
which I think will be an 

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increasing Trend as an addition 
to, that materials are not 

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replacing it or changing it. 
But just adding along the side 

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of it is some slightly more 
business-focused material rate. 

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So one of the one of the 
questions that comes up a lot is

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you know look I'm running on a 
Downy project in a large 

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business. 
It's really hard to get budget, 

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it's really hard to get funding.
It's really hard to defend the 

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size team that I need. 
It's really hard to get the 

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investment in professional 
development that I need. 

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Like why is that? 
And in my view and I think other

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people share this perspective, 
part of the problem at least is 

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that helping the business? 
Understand what the value to the

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business is is a little tricky 
and it quite often has come down

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to how do I protect things right
and so and yet we all know in 

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the identity industry that it's 
about a lot more than that. 

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A lot of cases it's about how do
I make this project happen? 

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How do I make the experience for
customers better? 

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Why protect my customers better,
which is a value, add to the 

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customer, right? 
Whether that's a consumer or, 

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you know, part of my supply 
chain or whatever it might be, 

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that is starting to change. 
And so, I think there's a role 

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for a donor verse to play 
Beyond, just that sort of core 

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material that we've had for a 
long time in in helping the 

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business side of the, the 
equation to kind of understand 

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what it is that we do and why 
that's important to them. 

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And for me I think that starts 
with helping digital identity 

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professionals, explain what it 
is that we do, you know? 

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And then over time hopefully 
starting to get some more of the

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business owners project managers
project leads, you know, digital

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identity, sorry, digital 
transformation directors. 

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Those kinds of folks to come 
along and kind of get a real 

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understanding, okay? 
This is how this helps, you 

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know, fundamentally Drive the 
business forwards. 

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I love that idea. 
Because they think this is an 

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area that a lot of identity 
folks really need help with is 

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articulating to non-identity 
people. 

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What the hell do we do, right? 
Why is it important? 

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You know, why does it cost so 
much money? 

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Why do we need so many people to
do this identity thing and to do

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it right? 
And I'm happy to see that. 

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Yeah, it's interesting. 
You know, it's something we've 

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touched on on and off over the 
years at the conference and it's

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absolutely I'm a bigger 
challenge. 

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It's actually very, very similar
to what happened. 

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I think in in the cybersecurity 
industry, a while back, you 

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know, it took a little time but 
you know, eventually 

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cybersecurity became a thing 
that had a seat at the, you 

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know, at the sea level and it's 
a topic that gets talked about 

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in boardrooms, you know, at that
level as well privacy over the 

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last few years has been through 
that very much that same 

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Journey, mostly not Entirely, 
but mostly probably driven by 

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some of the regulatory landscape
changes. 

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But again, you know, you look at
the way that Apple approaches 

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privacy and data standard 
example. 

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But there are absolutely others 
and it's becoming a USP, right? 

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It's a proposition to the 
customer and say, look, we look 

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after your dad. 
Now I don't want to get into a 

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conversation about whether 
that's true or not, right? 

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But from a pure sales 
perspective and for those of you

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who can't watching as it were, 
Jeff is laughing. 

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Hysterically in the background, 
I said that but You know, it's 

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it's clearly become a thing that
certain companies choose to kind

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of compete around. 
And so I think, you know, we're 

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probably at the beginning of 
that Journey for identity and in

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fact, one of the things that 
we've got that identity versus 

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is a friend and colleague of 
mine and I know he's been on the

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show a few times more than a few
times. 

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I think Jeff. 
Ian Glaser is going to do a 

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panel with a couple of other 
folks to talk exactly about has 

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it time that we had a sea level.
Roll that identity kind of rolls

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up to and there are pros and 
cons to that, to that argument, 

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right? 
But I think having the 

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conversation is, you know, the 
fact that we're even even a 

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point of having the 
conversation, says an awful lot 

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about, you know, kind of where 
the industry is today and where 

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it needs to get to tomorrow. 
Yeah, Ian's awesome. 

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He's like, such a good speaker. 
I'm, I'm interested to see if 

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this concept of this c-level 
executive level identity person.

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I think the most important 
thing. 

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That we need to do around this 
is to make sure that it's 

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branded appropriately. 
What do we call it, right? 

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Is it Chief digital identity 
officer? 

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Can we have like a cool nickname
like CDO, like C-3PO? 

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Like, that's the most important 
thing that we've got to really 

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solve. 
It doesn't matter what they do, 

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as long as the name is cool. 
It's the way I feel. 

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Yes, it's just occurring to me 
that if you drop the officer off

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and you just make it Chief 
identity. 

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Then you have said, answer, it's
important. 

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We've got to have, we've got to 
have good. 

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In here. 
Yes. 

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You know, I think the other 
thing too is, so the conference 

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begins May 30th and, you know, 
and you've been really a great 

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friend for the show. 
You're the reason we have a 

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discount code for people to, you
know, who are listening to this 

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to be able to get a discount to 
go. 

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So for those who aren't 
familiar, right? 

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We've got 20% discount code off 
your identify, this reservation 

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that registration easy for me to
say the code will be in our show

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notes, but I'll say it here as 
well. 

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ID V Dash icen 23, it gets 20% 
off. 

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We've got the early bird is 
still going on until I believe 

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April 27th. 
So there's just a little bit of 

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time left. 
You want to take advantage of 

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the last early bird discount but
hopefully people can combine 

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that with our discount code. 
But seriously man, thank you so 

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much for you know, helping us. 
Get that in place for listeners.

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Hopefully we've got, you know, 
some people who be able to take 

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advantage of it and be able to 
attend in in Vegas with us. 

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Yeah, no. 
It's a real pleasure and look, 

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you know, I'm obviously biased 
right? 

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Like I've been involved with the
show. 

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It's my show, obviously Andres 
your and up paying found it 

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years ago and then CRA to could 
over just before the show last 

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year, but I've been involved 
with it for a long time. 

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Like I say, I'm evidently biased
but I really think that people 

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get an awful lot out of it from 
a professional standpoint and 

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so, you know, anything that I 
can do to help that sort of 

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professional development 
Journey. 

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I'm I'm happy to do, right, like
I've gotten a lot, Out of the 

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industry. 
And so to the extent that I can 

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help, but stuff back, I'm 
delighted to do it. 

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It's very cool. 
And so I booked my flight a 

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couple days ago, I'll be there, 
the show will be there were 

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planning on doing some 
recording. 

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I think we're all starting to 
line up, maybe some guests. 

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So there's some interesting 
things that were working on 

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that. 
I don't think we're quite ready 

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to get it out there in the 
public yet. 

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But some ideas we've got. 
We'll see what comes through. 

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You mentioned the new ownership 
CRA. 

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I was not able to attend. 
Last year. 

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I was in a middle of a move sort
of across the country kind of 

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sort of and I think Jim was in 
the same same boat. 

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So I guess. 
Are there any noticeable 

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differences between the new 
ownership CRA versus Ping when 

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it came to the conference 
before? 

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Because one of the things that I
think I always felt about this 

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conference was one, it's a great
conference. 

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Definitely one of the ones you 
should be attending if you need 

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any space, but he also felt like
when it was owned by ping. 

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They did a really good job of 
being really inclusive for a lot

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of identity talk competitors. 
You know, vendors wasn't sure it

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was a pink conference, but it 
didn't feel like I was going to 

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a pink conference. 
It felt like, Was going to and 

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identity conference has there 
been any noticeable differences 

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or what should I expect? 
Is my first time going to a CRA 

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run. 
I dunno. 

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Verse compared to the last one 
that was probably had a couple 

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years ago. 
Yeah, that's a. 

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That's a really interesting 
question Jeff. 

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And I reminds me, I think we 
talked about this, you know, a 

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few podcast episodes back. 
But the conference was always 

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always, you know, when it was 
originally Only set up. 

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And the way it's always been 
wrong has been as an industry 

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conference. 
And in fact I worked for paying 

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a long time ago, but my 
involvement with the conference 

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in the role that a time that 
I've been in for gosh, eight 

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00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:57,600
years now, actually has not been
as an employee either of paying,

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00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,000
or in fact to CRA, right? 
So, I do this work externally 

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and that helps to some extent 
for us to kind of keep the 

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agenda that's as clean as we 
reasonably can. 

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Can write. 
And in fact, we've got a fairly 

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00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,200
rigorous process. 
I don't want to go so far as to 

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say, well, I can academic 
conference because we're really 

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not, right? 
There's a whole much much deeper

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00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:25,600
sort of set of things that goes 
around the, the academic 

249
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conferences, but we do have a 
process of reviewing material 

250
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,600
that comes in through, call for 
presentations and then reviewing

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00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,400
that material before it gets 
published. 

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We've got a whole content 
committee. 

253
00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:39,000
A number of whom have been on 
board for a while. 

254
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That you know, we refresh that 
on a on an ongoing basis as well

255
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partly because you know frankly 
people do it for a few years and

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they're like I'm done thank you 
very much. 

257
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But you know we also have new 
voices coming up. 

258
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We have new technologies 
emerging. 

259
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,800
We have new markets to talk 
about so it's always been run 

260
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that way and you know I I sort 
of hesitate to answer the 

261
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,500
question that you've asked as 
bluntly as I'm going to the 

262
00:14:05,508 --> 00:14:08,400
question, you know, the initial 
question was, is anything change

263
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,900
and kind of the Answer is no 
right and deliberately. 

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00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:18,200
So in fact, as you said, you 
know, the acquisition CRA made 

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00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:23,300
last year was announced. 
I want to say in December 

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00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:26,500
January in the run-up to the 
conference in June and then 

267
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:32,000
Andre and CRA CEO. 
A Dogma Tony actually stood on 

268
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,100
stage and had a conversation in 
front of everybody in the 

269
00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:37,600
audience and kind of you know, 
helped everybody understand sort

270
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,000
of what the future was going to 
look like. 

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So we really haven't changed 
very much. 

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00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,300
In terms of the basics of the 
event rate, your gender is still

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00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:49,700
constructed the same way, the 
Expo floor still looks like Expo

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00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:53,500
floor. 
The quality of the overall 

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00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:56,600
experience, which is something 
that's always been a focus for 

276
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,400
us, right? 
Is still very much the same. 

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00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,400
Having said all of that, the 
industry is growing right. 

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00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,000
And we talked about this at the 
top of the show, the way that we

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00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,100
need to talk about the industry 
is changing. 

280
00:15:08,100 --> 00:15:11,700
The people that we need. 
To talk to it about is changing 

281
00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:18,800
Technologies are changing. 
And so it's the right thing for 

282
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,500
us to look at okay, keeping the 
core as the core. 

283
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:28,500
What else do we need to do to 
start to grow in support of the 

284
00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:30,200
industry? 
That we serve right. 

285
00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:34,800
And so yeah, there are going to 
be some things that will change 

286
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,800
a little bit. 
We're adding some stuff into the

287
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,300
agenda, we're starting. 
Process this year and it will 

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00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:44,000
be, it will, you know, continue 
into into next year and the year

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00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:49,000
after particularly around, you 
know, some of the business side 

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00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,200
of things, some of the more 
strategic sort of stuff, in 

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00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,300
fact, CRA just, I want to say a 
few weeks ago and I might be out

292
00:15:56,300 --> 00:16:01,000
by n weeks, but announced a 
relationship, a strategic 

293
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:05,100
relationship with liminal the 
consulting firm so, liminal 

294
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,700
amongst other things used to 
run. 

295
00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:15,000
The no identity conference. 
And so you know CRA of developed

296
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,300
a strategic relationship with 
liminal you'll see them around 

297
00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:21,100
at the show they've got you know
some interesting perspectives to

298
00:16:21,100 --> 00:16:25,600
add to the to the overall kind 
of Melting Pot which I think 

299
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,700
will be really interesting and 
very valuable. 

300
00:16:27,900 --> 00:16:35,600
And I think there are other you 
know, consulting firms other 

301
00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:39,000
vendors from not necessarily 
your core identity. 

302
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,400
Space that we'll start to see 
emerging. 

303
00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:44,400
And again, a lot of that is 
reflective of what's happening 

304
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,400
in the industry, right? 
If you go out and look at, you 

305
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,900
know where investment is flowing
in the industry, you look at 

306
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:53,000
where some of the new 
technologies are coming. 

307
00:16:54,300 --> 00:16:57,500
Yeah there's absolutely movement
in what you might consider to 

308
00:16:57,500 --> 00:17:01,000
the traditional I'm doing air 
quotes but traditional you know,

309
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,400
kind of kind of core. 
I am technology but there's also

310
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,700
a bunch of stuff going on around
the edges of that in new areas, 

311
00:17:07,700 --> 00:17:08,900
right? 
You look at some of the stuff 

312
00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:12,800
that's Is happening from a 
verified any perspective you 

313
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,200
know attribute exchange is all 
the regulatory stuff that's 

314
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,400
going around mdl and in verified
identity in a number of 

315
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,400
countries you know the stuff 
that's flowing from that into 

316
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:29,700
things like wallets. 
I we haven't you know that isn't

317
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,300
that isn't something that 
traditionally we think all those

318
00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:33,800
core I am. 
Right. 

319
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,500
Digital identity wallet. 
Oh okay. 

320
00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:38,200
But maybe it is something that 
we need to start thinking about.

321
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:44,400
So, back to the original 
question, not a lot, has changed

322
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,200
at a fundamental level, the 
experience will still be much 

323
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:52,700
the same different better like 
it is every year, right? 

324
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,900
But we're starting to add some 
of that additional stuff around 

325
00:17:56,900 --> 00:17:59,500
the edges, which I think will be
really important for people. 

326
00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:02,500
And then, you actually asked a 
second question, Jeff right at 

327
00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:05,100
the end, which was a, what's the
experience for somebody that's 

328
00:18:05,100 --> 00:18:08,700
coming new to the show? 
Now that's a hard one for me to 

329
00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:11,000
answer. is it because I haven't 
been new to the show for a 

330
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:17,100
really long time but we spent a 
little bit of time last year 

331
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:25,800
talking to some folks who were 
new to the show and You know, 

332
00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:29,400
when I say we me couple of folks
on the content committee, some 

333
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,500
folks from ID Pro, some folks, 
from women and identity and 

334
00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:34,700
we've got, you know, 
relationships with with those 

335
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:39,800
organizations as with many 
others and one of the things I 

336
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:45,000
think that comes across is 
people find it incredibly 

337
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:51,300
valuable to have lots of names 
that they recognize from the 

338
00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:53,900
industry, right? 
So we already talked about Ian, 

339
00:18:55,100 --> 00:19:01,400
But Vittoria Bertolucci, right? 
Or Brian Campbell or even mailer

340
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:07,900
or you know, people whose names 
they've seen on specifications, 

341
00:19:07,900 --> 00:19:11,700
or that have stood up at other 
big conferences that they've 

342
00:19:11,700 --> 00:19:15,500
heard about all they've read 
blogs away, you know, that's 

343
00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:17,600
fantastic. 
And they're there and they get 

344
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,700
to hear them. 
And in theory, they get to go 

345
00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:24,100
and talk to them and we all do, 
right? 

346
00:19:24,100 --> 00:19:26,900
But it's It's a little 
intimidating, if it's your first

347
00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:30,300
time. 
And some people are very 

348
00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:32,500
comfortable with that and they 
weighed in and they get to know 

349
00:19:32,500 --> 00:19:35,100
folks and that's wonderful. 
But lots of people are not built

350
00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:37,400
that way. 
And in all honesty I'm not 

351
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,300
right? 
Like I like to have somebody 

352
00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:41,500
introduced me to somebody else 
and then I can have a 

353
00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:45,200
conversation with them, but it's
taken a long time for me to get 

354
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,300
over that sort of walk into a 
room, there's 300 people. 

355
00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:52,500
Then there's someone whose name 
I recognize but do I really want

356
00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:54,300
to go up and like start a 
conversation? 

357
00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:58,400
That's hard. 
So one of the things We're going

358
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,700
to do this year in conjunction 
with ID program with weird is 

359
00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:04,300
for those folks that are new to 
identify us. 

360
00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:07,700
We're going to do a session 
right up front on the Tuesday, 

361
00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:13,200
which is the day that we start 
before the main agenda starts, 

362
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:20,700
which is going to help cut out. 
Help people get more out of the 

363
00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:23,000
week help people navigate the 
week. 

364
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,200
It's not that it's a scary event
to attend, right? 

365
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,000
It's really not. 
It's actually very friendly 

366
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,800
event. 
The question is okay, with in 

367
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,600
that friendly welcoming context,
how do I get to talk to the 

368
00:20:35,608 --> 00:20:37,000
people that I want to get to 
talk to you? 

369
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,700
How do I figure out which things
to attend? 

370
00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:42,900
What are the tips and tricks for
me to get the most out of that 

371
00:20:42,900 --> 00:20:47,300
week, right? 
I think the other I would say 

372
00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:51,100
for anyone that's coming to it. 
New is it's a lot more than just

373
00:20:51,100 --> 00:20:54,700
the conference, right? 
So we talked about obviously big

374
00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:58,600
agenda and it is a big agenda, 
will have somewhere between 150 

375
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:03,000
and 200 speakers this year, 
which is a lot, it moves fast, 

376
00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:04,700
right? 
So, you got to kind of keep up 

377
00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:07,900
with day a little bit. 
We've got a big show floor, 

378
00:21:07,900 --> 00:21:12,900
it'll be the biggest we've ever 
had lots going on there as well,

379
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,500
right? 
There's some, some content 

380
00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:16,800
that's going to be running 
around the edges. 

381
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,400
The of the trade show for as 
well. 

382
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,500
So, for those folks that need to
understand sort of what's 

383
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:23,600
happening in the product 
landscape. 

384
00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:27,100
There's there's all of that and 
then there's all the other stuff

385
00:21:27,100 --> 00:21:29,900
that goes around it, right? 
So we've had lots of traditions 

386
00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:32,500
that identity verse four years 
and some of them continue and so

387
00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:35,900
on them change. 
But things like, you know, yoga 

388
00:21:35,900 --> 00:21:38,900
and boot camp sessions in the 
morning, the welcome reception, 

389
00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:41,500
which has some, you know, some 
stuff that goes on around it, 

390
00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:45,800
we've got, you know, the closing
party which traditionally has 

391
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,700
been, you know, one of the big 
focuses Focuses for the week and

392
00:21:49,700 --> 00:21:53,800
a whole variety of other sort of
activities that happen around 

393
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,800
the edges show. 
So, I think, for a lot of people

394
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:01,700
that have maybe attended more, 
let's say, traditionally run 

395
00:22:01,700 --> 00:22:04,600
conferences. 
Yeah, we do that stuff. 

396
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,500
But there's other stuff too, 
right? 

397
00:22:07,900 --> 00:22:10,600
And I think that's worth bearing
in mind and then, hey, we're in 

398
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,700
Vegas this year. 
So not my choice. 

399
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,300
But I am given to understand 
that some people Like that 

400
00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:19,100
experience. 
And so there's all of that to go

401
00:22:19,100 --> 00:22:22,500
explore as well. 
If you want to, I am a fan of 

402
00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:25,100
Vegas. 
I feel like it's a very 

403
00:22:25,100 --> 00:22:28,900
polarizing Choice. 
Some people are Vegas. 

404
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,600
Some people hate Vegas. 
I don't know anybody who's in 

405
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,000
the middle. 
It's like, yeah, there's the two

406
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,500
extremes out there. 
I'm a fan of it. 

407
00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:38,400
I think it's I think it's a 
great spot to have it. 

408
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,400
One of the things that you 
mentioned there and it just was 

409
00:22:42,500 --> 00:22:46,800
as you're talking and say kike 
The conference seems fresh and I

410
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,700
think that's the most important 
part of putting together. 

411
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,200
Any sort of agenda, topic 
speaker structure, you know, all

412
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,500
this stuff goes into. 
This is, how do you keep it 

413
00:22:55,500 --> 00:23:00,100
fresh year over year over year? 
And I think that is the great /.

414
00:23:00,100 --> 00:23:05,400
Fun / hard thing about identity,
is that things change a lot even

415
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,300
just within a year, right? 
Trends, new technologies, new 

416
00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:10,700
threats, right? 
That we have to be kind of be 

417
00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:13,700
concerned about. 
And that freshness, I think it's

418
00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:15,100
something. 
That you know, every conference 

419
00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:18,300
probably strives to inject into 
that as I go. 

420
00:23:18,308 --> 00:23:21,200
Okay, well, I went last year, 
why should I go again this year 

421
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,600
and maybe some people are on 
Cycles? 

422
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,300
You know, I know, I know a 
couple people who was like, okay

423
00:23:24,300 --> 00:23:26,500
well I go like every two years 
or every three years to see 

424
00:23:26,500 --> 00:23:30,200
what's going on. 
I'm a fan of going to as many as

425
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,500
I can, you know, that the 
content is great. 

426
00:23:33,500 --> 00:23:36,100
But the thing that I find the 
most invaluable are the hallway 

427
00:23:36,100 --> 00:23:41,200
conversations, I was at Gartner 
just a few weeks ago and I don't

428
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,100
think I was able to attend very 
many sessions. 

429
00:23:43,300 --> 00:23:45,300
I had a cute. 
I've had a couple key notes. 

430
00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:48,400
I had a couple of sessions with 
like Becky and Enrique and stuff

431
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,300
like that from Gartner analyst 
side of things. 

432
00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:54,400
And those were great, but I 
spent a lot of time just talking

433
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,400
with people and I think that's 
the one thing that I really 

434
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:01,100
appreciate about this identity. 
Space is, people are very 

435
00:24:01,100 --> 00:24:03,100
welcoming. 
So if you see people having a 

436
00:24:03,108 --> 00:24:05,800
conversation, if you see people 
out there is like, hey, there's 

437
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:10,400
Vittorio and his Italy, you 
know, gorgeous main, I want to 

438
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,600
go talk to him and find out what
is using for shampoo and 

439
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,300
conditioner. 
You know, go do it because 

440
00:24:15,300 --> 00:24:18,100
people are cool man. 
I mean, they're very receptive 

441
00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:20,000
to going walking off. 
Introducing this other stuff 

442
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,100
like that. 
I feel like it's I'm the same 

443
00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:23,400
way. 
It's a little bit, you know, if 

444
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,200
you're more of an introvert you 
kind of have to get out of that 

445
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,500
bubble and just walk up and say 
hello which can be tough and I 

446
00:24:28,508 --> 00:24:31,700
get that find someone to make an
introduction, you know, I think 

447
00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:33,800
it's that's another area that's 
like hey if you're going with 

448
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,700
somebody else, you know there's 
strength in numbers or maybe if 

449
00:24:36,700 --> 00:24:37,900
you know someone who's Going to 
there. 

450
00:24:37,900 --> 00:24:40,600
Maybe they know someone and they
can help make an introduction. 

451
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,000
I always find it really awkward 
when you like, you know, this 

452
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,400
isit. 
This actually happened at a 

453
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,400
fennec eight last year. 
In Seattle, was the torrio Ian. 

454
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:56,700
And I think it was Dean maybe 
from AWS, we're all kind of 

455
00:24:56,700 --> 00:24:58,700
standing around kind of Talking 
Like These are Heavy Hitters in 

456
00:24:58,700 --> 00:25:02,400
the identity space to do a lot 
of talk talks and presentations 

457
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,500
of like that. 
And I had kind of known you 

458
00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:07,200
know, Vittorio Indian but didn't
really know Dean so much and I 

459
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:08,800
just kind of I walked up and 
just kind of stood there 

460
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,600
awkwardly like oh and I just 
kind of joined the conversation 

461
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,600
right? 
But it was cool right? 

462
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,800
A oh that's not an opportunity 
that you get especially when you

463
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,000
are remote all the time or if 
you're not attending 

464
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,200
conferences, that to me is the 
most valuable part. 

465
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,200
Yes, the content is good. 
Meet people. 

466
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:26,800
Go talk with people have 
conversations. 

467
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,500
I think there's a lot of value 
in that as well. 

468
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,500
Yeah, I think that's really good
advice, Jeff and I agree, right?

469
00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:36,300
I like I say, it's hard for me 
to judge identify us anymore. 

470
00:25:36,300 --> 00:25:39,800
Any because I'm I'm, you know, 
I'm there as it were and I've 

471
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,800
been there for a long time, but,
all right, it is an incredibly 

472
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,100
welcoming industry and it's it, 
maybe feels a little 

473
00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:50,600
disingenuous for you and I to be
sitting hearing and we're 

474
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,800
throwing these names around 
right that people recognize and 

475
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,100
yet it's worth saying that, you 
know, for all that were involved

476
00:25:58,100 --> 00:26:00,400
in a pretty Deep Way in the 
industry. 

477
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,900
There are still lots of people 
that we don't know, right? 

478
00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:07,800
And so it's not at all uncommon 
for me to have to, you know, to 

479
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,600
have exactly the experience. 
You just described of, oh, wait,

480
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,400
there's this person whose name I
vaguely recognize who I don't 

481
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,400
know. 
Looks after identity regulation 

482
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,500
for the UK government. 
Right? 

483
00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:23,300
Okay. 
Well, I should probably go get 

484
00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:26,200
to know that person and I have 
I'd like where do you start with

485
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,600
that? 
Hi, I'm Andy, I ride 

486
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:28,700
anniversary. 
Okay. 

487
00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:33,200
Yeah. 
It's not obvious but it is an 

488
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:38,300
incredibly welcoming industry. 
And I felt that from very early 

489
00:26:38,300 --> 00:26:40,600
on like I didn't I didn't kind 
of grow up in this industry. 

490
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,600
Some people did write it was 
their first career out of school

491
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:43,800
and that's and that's what they 
did. 

492
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:49,300
That wasn't my case thought. 
But yeah, really really 

493
00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:54,400
welcoming industry and I think 
your observation that it's a 

494
00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:00,400
rapidly changing industry, it 
has been True and continues to 

495
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:05,300
be true. 
In fact, so Ida Pro for a number

496
00:27:05,300 --> 00:27:08,100
of years. 
Now has run a skills and program

497
00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:12,000
survey we added some, some 
diversity components to that a 

498
00:27:12,008 --> 00:27:14,800
few years ago as well. 
And really, the purpose of that 

499
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,300
is to help help ID Pro, but also
to help the industry. 

500
00:27:19,300 --> 00:27:23,400
Understand what shape. 
The professional industry is. 

501
00:27:23,500 --> 00:27:26,300
Right? 
And honestly, nobody knew, 

502
00:27:26,300 --> 00:27:27,800
right. 
Nobody had any idea. 

503
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,200
Well, Questions. 
Like, how long does it take you 

504
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:36,600
to feel proficient, right? 
And you can go and, you know, 

505
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,000
kind of look at the last four 
years, five years results on the

506
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,600
only Pro website, but basically 
the number of people that say, I

507
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,700
still don't feel proficient. 
And if you correlate that with 

508
00:27:47,700 --> 00:27:50,700
the folks who've been in the 
industry for a long time, you 

509
00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:55,900
get this weird sort of inverted 
curve, right, where people start

510
00:27:55,900 --> 00:27:58,100
off and they're in the industry 
one or two years and I don't 

511
00:27:58,100 --> 00:27:59,100
feel profession. 
Aunt. 

512
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,200
And then you get folks in the 
middle who are like between say 

513
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,300
three and about seven or eight 
years who are like I got this. 

514
00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:10,400
Then you get the people like you
know, who've been in the 

515
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:15,000
industry for 10 12, 14, 16 
years, you're like no, I have no

516
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:20,100
clue what's going on anymore and
that has been true, right? 

517
00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:24,400
Those results have been pretty 
consistent for a number of 

518
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,100
years. 
Now, in fact, will occasionally 

519
00:28:28,100 --> 00:28:30,700
Danvers the eye. 
Pro Crowder stood up and kind of

520
00:28:30,708 --> 00:28:34,400
talked about that in some detail
this year, we'll go through it. 

521
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,200
I think there's a couple of 
sessions will all go through it 

522
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,300
at a slightly, higher level, and
probably with a bit more 

523
00:28:40,300 --> 00:28:43,300
reference to, you know, sort of 
what is the professional 

524
00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:46,400
development Journey look like. 
And what are some ways to think 

525
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,200
about? 
You know, the way that we 

526
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:54,300
develop our, our careers in what
is increasingly a sort of quote 

527
00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:56,100
unquote, professionalized it 
ministry, right? 

528
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,700
But I invest some really, really
Interesting stuff in that. 

529
00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:04,300
One of the other things that's 
interesting, is the number of 

530
00:29:04,300 --> 00:29:07,700
new people that are now emerging
in the industry, right? 

531
00:29:07,700 --> 00:29:13,100
Like again, it's growing and 
it's growing very rapidly and 

532
00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:17,200
you talked about freshness. 
So, one of the things that that 

533
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,500
we look at and I talked about 
this on the main stage, quite a 

534
00:29:20,508 --> 00:29:25,300
lot of identity is actually, but
we we obviously look at an 

535
00:29:25,300 --> 00:29:28,400
inclusivity across the agenda, 
and it's hard, right? 

536
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,000
It's And in this industry, as it
is in any other. 

537
00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:35,500
We know that there are that 
there are challenges there and 

538
00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:38,000
we do our best to address them. 
I will say that. 

539
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,600
I don't think we do as well as I
would like us to. 

540
00:29:41,900 --> 00:29:44,100
But I'm proud of the fact that 
at least we're trying. 

541
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:50,300
Right. 
One of and part of that is, how 

542
00:29:50,300 --> 00:29:55,700
do you define inclusiveness? 
And so for us it's always been a

543
00:29:55,700 --> 00:29:59,900
very broad definition and part 
The reason I bring it up in this

544
00:29:59,900 --> 00:30:06,600
context is one of the dimensions
that we look at is the number of

545
00:30:07,100 --> 00:30:11,600
new voices across the speakers 
write the number of new voices 

546
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,800
versus the number of people 
who've spoken at a den of us 

547
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,600
before. 
For exactly that reason, right? 

548
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,700
You want to hear from different 
people? 

549
00:30:21,700 --> 00:30:24,300
And yeah, there's some added 
value there in terms of helping 

550
00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:27,400
people, you know, have some 
career progression opportunities

551
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,400
and demonstrate all the stuff 
that they can do in worst of it.

552
00:30:30,100 --> 00:30:34,200
So we typically run somewhere 
between, you know, any given 

553
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,500
year 40 to 60 percent of the, 
you know, overall speaker makeup

554
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:44,000
is new speakers, new presenters 
to the conference and that's 

555
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:50,800
been consistent now. 
At least five years if not 

556
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:56,200
longer. 
I personally and I would say 

557
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,600
this, right? 
I think that's really important.

558
00:31:00,300 --> 00:31:03,100
I would be fascinated to know 
what other people think, right? 

559
00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:05,300
So you know if you're listening 
to this and you go to identify 

560
00:31:05,300 --> 00:31:07,400
verse and you get the little 
survey question ever afterwards 

561
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,400
or even if you're in a session, 
right? 

562
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,900
Do the in session survey it just
asks you know like did you enjoy

563
00:31:13,900 --> 00:31:17,600
the session or whatever? 
But Provide that feedback, 

564
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,300
right? 
Let us know because it's always 

565
00:31:20,300 --> 00:31:22,300
that thing. 
It's not like we know any better

566
00:31:22,300 --> 00:31:25,400
than anybody else and if we 
don't get the feedback from 

567
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,500
people about, yeah, this topic 
was good. 

568
00:31:27,700 --> 00:31:31,400
This topic wasn't great. 
This presented was clearly knew 

569
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,500
and they need to find their 
voice but they had some really 

570
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:35,900
interesting things to say, and 
that's the other thing I'd 

571
00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:39,300
encourage, if you are giving 
feedback, what there are ways to

572
00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:41,300
make it positive, right? 
Like, you don't have to be 

573
00:31:41,300 --> 00:31:43,100
grumpy in the survey feedback, 
okay? 

574
00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:45,900
You suck. 
Get off stage, you know. 

575
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,800
Like let's avoid that but 
constructive criticism, that's 

576
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,100
well-meant well-intentioned, I 
think is incredibly helpful. 

577
00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:58,000
So I would really encourage 
people to kind of engage with 

578
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,800
that. 
You know, if you are attending, 

579
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,400
let us know what you think. 
That's super helpful. 

580
00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:06,000
I love that idea. 
I think, you know, be fair with 

581
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,700
that kind of thing. 
Getting on stage is not easy, 

582
00:32:08,900 --> 00:32:10,100
right? 
You're putting yourself out 

583
00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:12,300
there. 
Think about that, right? 

584
00:32:12,300 --> 00:32:13,900
From your perspective, like 
you're sitting in the chair 

585
00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:16,600
listening. 
You're not up on stage, so Maybe

586
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,300
someday it'll be you and I think
that that feedback does help 

587
00:32:19,300 --> 00:32:20,300
right? 
Is understanding. 

588
00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:23,200
And yeah maybe it is the first 
time, you know, you're hearing 

589
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,200
from somebody and, you know, 
maybe they knock out of the 

590
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,300
park. 
Maybe there's a couple things 

591
00:32:26,300 --> 00:32:27,700
work on. 
That's cool. 

592
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,000
They took the step of getting on
stage and putting themselves out

593
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,100
there, which I think is the 
first step towards. 

594
00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:34,800
Yeah. 
Keeping that freshness, keeping 

595
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,200
that that, that conversation 
alive. 

596
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,900
I love the idea of have a new 
speakers out there and, you 

597
00:32:39,900 --> 00:32:42,800
know, kind of hearing it's out 
there because at some point, 

598
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,100
right? 
There's going to be a Changing 

599
00:32:44,100 --> 00:32:46,200
of the Guard and it's a 
constant. 

600
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,500
Refresh in a cycle, right? 
At some point there will be new 

601
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,600
sort of you know leaders in the 
space that are out there giving 

602
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,400
opinions or coming up with new 
ways of doing things that I 

603
00:32:55,408 --> 00:32:57,200
think people need to hear about 
you. 

604
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,900
And I were talking a couple days
ago about, you know, who are 

605
00:33:00,900 --> 00:33:03,000
some of these new speakers and 
maybe trying to get them on the 

606
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,400
show here making and you know, 
Andy, can you make an 

607
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,400
introduction for me and Jim 
Wright, they go have a 

608
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,700
conversation, you know, with 
these folks and see if they'd be

609
00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:13,700
interested in being on the 
podcast and things like that. 

610
00:33:13,700 --> 00:33:18,100
So yeah, I'm excited to be that.
And that's a really fun idea and

611
00:33:18,100 --> 00:33:21,000
already valuable idea. 
And, you know, maybe one of the 

612
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,200
things we're not brainstorming 
live on the podcast, but, you 

613
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,500
know, maybe 120 doings that. 
Yeah. 

614
00:33:26,900 --> 00:33:29,700
So maybe one of the things we do
is, you know, you guys are going

615
00:33:29,700 --> 00:33:35,100
to be there in Vegas, in a 
couple months time and, yeah, 

616
00:33:35,100 --> 00:33:37,000
you know, I can go through the 
agenda and try and say, well, 

617
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,900
you should go to this and this 
and this, but you guys are going

618
00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:40,600
to be that, right? 
So, I would do a little bit of 

619
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,300
divide and conquer and go and go
and listen, right currency 

620
00:33:43,300 --> 00:33:46,600
while, you know, who's out there
that saying, some stuff that You

621
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,300
know, that's a different 
perspective. 

622
00:33:48,300 --> 00:33:51,100
That's a different take that, 
you know, maybe is a couple of 

623
00:33:51,100 --> 00:33:56,900
years into their career that you
know we need to hear from and 

624
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,000
it's occurring to me that there 
may well. 

625
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,900
Be some folks, you know, 
listening to this who are in 

626
00:34:01,900 --> 00:34:04,800
that group of hey this is my 
first identify a person like 

627
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,500
well, you know, and so yet the 
Obama show, we're friendly. 

628
00:34:08,500 --> 00:34:12,000
I swear if we take good care of 
people, exactly. 

629
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:14,800
But actually, it's true, right, 
we get feedback. 

630
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,100
So, like, I say, we've got a 
process For this, that's that's 

631
00:34:17,100 --> 00:34:20,600
again, not perfect, but, 
reasonably well, established, 

632
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,699
over over a number of years. 
Everything that gets presented 

633
00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:26,300
in the main agenda goes through 
this. 

634
00:34:26,300 --> 00:34:28,900
This content review, process 
with the content committee and 

635
00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:32,199
actually goes through a two-step
process and it is absolutely 

636
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:35,600
designed to be a supportive 
helpful constructive process 

637
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,800
process, right? 
It's not a case of the content 

638
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:39,800
committee trying to 
editorialize. 

639
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,900
What we're trying to do is to 
make sure that speakers have as 

640
00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:47,199
good an experience as they can 
and we are Some really nice 

641
00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:50,699
feedback last year. 
This didn't come to me directly.

642
00:34:50,699 --> 00:34:54,400
It came through one of the 
content could members but 

643
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,300
someone who actually is an 
experienced presenter, right? 

644
00:34:57,300 --> 00:35:00,200
And they speak at conferences 
fairly technical conferences 

645
00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:04,300
around the world and have done 
for years and their commentary 

646
00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:08,800
was like I have never had the 
amount of constructive feedback 

647
00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:13,000
through a Content review. 
Then I got that identifies to 

648
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,100
the extent that it actually led 
to some improvements in the 

649
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,800
Nation that they were writing 
right now that isn't going to 

650
00:35:18,808 --> 00:35:23,700
happen for everybody but you 
know folks that are new 

651
00:35:24,700 --> 00:35:27,800
absolutely. 
A Gonna Get, You know, here's a 

652
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,100
way to think about constructing 
this material in a more 

653
00:35:31,100 --> 00:35:33,700
effective way. 
Or have you considered putting a

654
00:35:33,700 --> 00:35:36,100
summary slide at the end because
that'll help people remember 

655
00:35:36,100 --> 00:35:39,100
what you said. 
Or, you know, sometimes it's the

656
00:35:39,100 --> 00:35:40,900
basic things. 
You've got a 20-minute 

657
00:35:40,900 --> 00:35:45,500
presentation unless you rem 
Glaser 121 slides is not going 

658
00:35:45,500 --> 00:35:47,100
to work. 
Right? 

659
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,600
And and we can help with that. 
And there are lots of people 

660
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,600
even within the community who 
are willing to help. 

661
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,200
So if you happen to be a member 
ID Pro, you know, I would reach 

662
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,500
out and select Channel there and
say, hey look, I'm I'm preparing

663
00:36:01,500 --> 00:36:04,300
my deck and I'd love to get some
pointers and people will help, 

664
00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:05,900
right? 
They'll absolutely help. 

665
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,000
Yeah. 
It's a it's a fun thing to be 

666
00:36:10,008 --> 00:36:11,000
involved. 
In is all I can say. 

667
00:36:11,300 --> 00:36:13,000
Yeah. 
The creative process is 

668
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,000
interesting. 
I think back to like our first 

669
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,900
episode of me in my basement 
with a very echoey microphone 

670
00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:21,100
and now here we are. 
The audio quality is gotten 

671
00:36:21,100 --> 00:36:23,700
better as a contact gun better. 
I don't know. 

672
00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:25,400
I feel like we've been 
relatively consistent, but we 

673
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,500
get feedback all the time. 
Too much banter upfront. 

674
00:36:27,500 --> 00:36:29,100
You took too long to get to the 
topic, right? 

675
00:36:29,100 --> 00:36:31,400
You're talking about things that
don't make sense to me. 

676
00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:33,400
Maybe they make sense of someone
else, you know? 

677
00:36:33,408 --> 00:36:35,300
And we take that out, you know? 
And I think that's part of that 

678
00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:37,200
same process, right? 
Is you can get smarter over 

679
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,700
time. 
Our time, it's okay to evolve 

680
00:36:39,700 --> 00:36:43,900
adapt iterate, right? 
Because a lot of times and maybe

681
00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:46,000
I'm maybe I'm peeling back a 
little bit of the conference 

682
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,100
circuit tour. 
Is you develop you know, a talk 

683
00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:52,900
or presentation and you might 
give it one, two, three, ten 

684
00:36:52,900 --> 00:36:56,500
times. 
And you will take feedback as 

685
00:36:56,500 --> 00:36:58,800
you go on the way to say, oh, 
okay, here's another way that I 

686
00:36:58,808 --> 00:37:01,700
can kind of do this or make it 
more specific to the type of 

687
00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:05,600
audience is going into. 
So, you know, it's interesting 

688
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,300
to see the first time someone 
presents. 

689
00:37:07,500 --> 00:37:10,400
And then to see it maybe a year 
or two later when they're 

690
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,800
presenting again at a different,
you know, venue for people who 

691
00:37:12,808 --> 00:37:15,500
maybe haven't seen it before and
to see what's changed. 

692
00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:16,700
And that's a result of that 
feedback. 

693
00:37:16,700 --> 00:37:17,800
They probably got behind the 
scenes. 

694
00:37:18,300 --> 00:37:20,400
Yeah, that's a really 
interesting observation Jeff and

695
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,400
you up, you're absolutely right.
You know, the the way that talks

696
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,900
evolved over time is, is 
fascinating, and it actually 

697
00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:32,200
leads me to a thought, which is,
you know, for those people that 

698
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,700
do have the opportunity to do 
that, that's fantastic. 

699
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,700
Equally if you're turning up at 
a Conference and this is the 

700
00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:41,600
first run right? 
Whether it's identifies or any 

701
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:46,400
other conference, I would highly
highly highly recommend finding 

702
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:52,800
a couple of friendlies and doing
a full run-through of like 

703
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:59,300
properly presented maybe even 
two or three times just to help 

704
00:37:59,900 --> 00:38:02,900
hone it a little bit. 
So that actually the first time 

705
00:38:02,900 --> 00:38:06,300
you do it and particularly, if 
presenting isn't a thing that 

706
00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:10,300
you do on a regular The first 
time you do, it isn't the first 

707
00:38:10,300 --> 00:38:13,800
time you did it. 
And it's funny because I fell 

708
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,100
into exactly this trap actually 
not with the presentation, but 

709
00:38:17,100 --> 00:38:23,100
with a podcast and it wasn't 
this one, it was a different one

710
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,600
that wasn't specifically focused
on identity, but it was the 

711
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:34,200
first one that I ever done. 
And I assumed that given that I 

712
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:38,000
present and I do that, you know,
like freely without About notes 

713
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,400
and I make stuff up and it's 
fine because I know stuff and 

714
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,300
that's okay, right? 
And I'm used to it. 

715
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,200
I just assumed that I could get 
on a podcast and it would be 

716
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,900
fine. 
And you know what? 

717
00:38:50,100 --> 00:38:54,200
It's not. 
And so I learned and this was 

718
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,500
what like two years ago. 
So not a long time ago, this is 

719
00:38:57,500 --> 00:39:05,800
recent and I make notes. 
Now for podcasts of here are the

720
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,900
things that I want to talk about
and here are some key facts that

721
00:39:09,900 --> 00:39:13,200
I don't want to forget halfway 
through and then you know when 

722
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,100
Jeff asks me a question, I'm 
like I'm going to make a note of

723
00:39:16,100 --> 00:39:19,000
that somewhere, very quietly so 
that the sound doesn't come 

724
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:20,200
through the microphone. 
I'm Thudding. 

725
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:21,200
See, Jeff. 
Thank you. 

726
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,000
Thank you. 
And you know, so that I know 

727
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,900
that I can come back around to 
it later and it it's a constant 

728
00:39:28,900 --> 00:39:31,200
learning experience. 
And so I go for the new people, 

729
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,800
I'd absolutely say, you know, 
even the folks that are standing

730
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,100
up on that big stage and 
identify verse or Gartner or you

731
00:39:37,100 --> 00:39:41,900
know, RSA, whatever it is. 
Everybody is still learning how 

732
00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:45,700
to get better at this, right? 
Yeah, I think you bring up a 

733
00:39:45,707 --> 00:39:48,600
really good point there too, but
the rehearse it right, 

734
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:49,700
understand it? 
No. 

735
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,600
The content. 
Here's my Pro tip. 

736
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,900
Don't read a slide, there's 
nothing worse than being than 

737
00:39:56,900 --> 00:39:59,700
having a slide full of text and 
you're literally just reading it

738
00:39:59,700 --> 00:40:01,000
to the person I could have done 
that. 

739
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,300
I think the challenge for a lot 
of people is when they're 

740
00:40:04,300 --> 00:40:07,100
finding their voice is not being
afraid, to let their personality

741
00:40:07,100 --> 00:40:10,700
show be dynamic, right? 
Let some of your personal to go 

742
00:40:10,700 --> 00:40:11,400
through. 
Yeah. 

743
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,400
Identity. 
You know, may not be the most 

744
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,400
exciting Topic in the world. 
I hate to say it, but there are 

745
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,700
ways to still make it 
entertaining, engaging, you 

746
00:40:19,700 --> 00:40:22,100
know, no, you don't want to be 
the monotone voice saying 

747
00:40:22,100 --> 00:40:24,600
everything in the same tone, and
just kind of reading a voice, 

748
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,000
write a robot, that kind of 
thing is take a moment, right? 

749
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,600
You don't have to fill dead air,
right? 

750
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,500
You can have Thoughtful pauses, 
as you're going through the 

751
00:40:34,500 --> 00:40:36,700
conversation. 
So I know it's a skill. 

752
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,200
I mean you mentioned, you know 
taking notes we do that for all 

753
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,500
of our shows here is we put 
together sort of here's the idea

754
00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:45,400
for the topic and let's come up 
with like three to five 

755
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,000
questions so that Jim and I 
don't ramble, you know too far 

756
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,700
off the beaten path sometimes we
do sometimes Jim goes a downer 

757
00:40:51,700 --> 00:40:54,400
path and I have to pull them 
back to the light. 

758
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,400
You like come on let's go let's 
go let's bring it back up but 

759
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,100
you know that's just part of the
process so yeah I think I think 

760
00:41:01,100 --> 00:41:03,100
it's a great idea. 
Is to make sure if, especially, 

761
00:41:03,100 --> 00:41:04,600
if it's your first time 
presenting this year, if you're 

762
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,600
listening to this, I'd be happy 
to listen to it. 

763
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,300
You know, feel free. 
You know, we do that for our 

764
00:41:09,300 --> 00:41:11,900
friends and, you know, everybody
identity space that I come 

765
00:41:11,900 --> 00:41:13,700
across has been very friendly 
and happy to do that too. 

766
00:41:13,700 --> 00:41:17,000
So I want to shift gears a 
little bit because you mentioned

767
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,700
a couple things like women, and 
identity and ID Pro, it seems to

768
00:41:21,700 --> 00:41:25,200
me that ID pro has sort of made 
identify verse sort of the whole

769
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,600
conference for them. 
And I wonder about, you know, 

770
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,100
relationships between some of 
these organizations like, women 

771
00:41:31,100 --> 00:41:33,800
identity, like Like ID Pro like 
others. 

772
00:41:34,300 --> 00:41:38,100
What is though, what does that 
type of relationship with the 

773
00:41:38,100 --> 00:41:40,900
conference itself? 
Is their influence on? 

774
00:41:41,300 --> 00:41:43,400
What are some of the tracks or 
topics? 

775
00:41:43,700 --> 00:41:45,500
You know. 
Are there Events maybe they get 

776
00:41:45,500 --> 00:41:48,200
kind of set aside you know for 
some of those folks, those types

777
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,100
of things. 
Yeah, that was a thoughtful 

778
00:41:52,100 --> 00:41:53,400
pause. 
Just then, folks. 

779
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:59,700
So yeah, we do. 
We absolutely have those 

780
00:41:59,700 --> 00:42:02,700
relationships with a number of 
organizations, and I think the 

781
00:42:02,700 --> 00:42:05,600
nature of those relationships to
some degree. 

782
00:42:06,500 --> 00:42:08,800
Mmm, dictates is, maybe not the 
right word. 

783
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,600
But influences, you know what 
the impact is? 

784
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,400
So we'll start with ID Pro, just
because I think you started with

785
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:20,200
it, so I'll start with it Ida 
Pro, and it was founded in. 

786
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:25,100
Well, a little bit before 2017, 
but it was the 2017 conference, 

787
00:42:25,100 --> 00:42:27,900
which was in. 
He says, racking his brains. 

788
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,100
I want to say Chicago Chicago. 
Yep. 

789
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,200
Good. 
I'm glad so glad I got that 

790
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,800
right? 
You have never played it Ian and

791
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,600
Sarah, very happy with you as an
adult. 

792
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,200
One of the things I wrote down 
in advance. 

793
00:42:40,100 --> 00:42:41,700
Yeah. 
So in Chicago and we actually 

794
00:42:41,700 --> 00:42:45,300
announced, you know, the the 
formation of it Pros, a 

795
00:42:45,300 --> 00:42:49,200
standalone, nonprofit entity, 
you know, on the main stage and 

796
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,400
one of the things that we 
announced at Time. 

797
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,600
Was that identify us was the 
home show for ID Pro and that's 

798
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,900
been true ever since. 
Now some of that with with an ID

799
00:42:58,900 --> 00:43:02,500
Pro Hat on at the time, was a 
little bit self-serving in the 

800
00:43:02,500 --> 00:43:05,000
sense that look, there's this 
big conference that most of the 

801
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,700
identity professionals go to. 
So, why would we go and make 

802
00:43:08,700 --> 00:43:11,700
another one? 
Hey, here it is. 

803
00:43:12,900 --> 00:43:16,900
But what we've done over time is
slightly formalized, that 

804
00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:19,200
relationship. 
And so yeah, there has been for 

805
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,300
a number of years now. 
A professional development sort 

806
00:43:23,300 --> 00:43:28,200
of topic area or track show 
which really focuses on war of 

807
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,300
the soft skills. 
So, we've had topics, like, like

808
00:43:31,300 --> 00:43:32,600
we mentioned top of the show, 
right? 

809
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,000
How do I pitch my project? 
How do I get budget? 

810
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,400
How do I manage a team? 
How do I hire an inclusive way? 

811
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:44,000
Right? 
How do I deal with stress in? 

812
00:43:44,100 --> 00:43:46,300
You know, instant response is 
actually one of the talks this 

813
00:43:46,300 --> 00:43:51,100
year which I'm really looking 
forward to, you know, the Just a

814
00:43:51,100 --> 00:43:55,200
short flight of that stress when
I started interrupt, but I hope 

815
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,300
that horse person that just has 
like a picture of a liquor 

816
00:43:57,300 --> 00:44:00,100
bottle and I, all right, talk 
over and it's like 30 seconds 

817
00:44:00,500 --> 00:44:02,600
and as I just kidding, like 
there's more things, but I think

818
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,700
that would be hilarious. 
We'd open it up, but I digress. 

819
00:44:04,700 --> 00:44:08,800
Please continue the, let's fly 
you digress as much as you like,

820
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,300
Jeff, any talks. 
Yeah. 

821
00:44:11,300 --> 00:44:17,600
So, so, that is a topic area 
that is kind of curated within 

822
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,900
the overall construct of the 
show, but is is curated And 

823
00:44:20,900 --> 00:44:27,600
assisted by folks, you know, 
within ID Pro and then, you 

824
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:32,500
know, typically they'll be, you 
know, some material up the front

825
00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:34,100
of the show. 
So there's the introduction to 

826
00:44:34,100 --> 00:44:36,100
Identity that we've run for a 
long time. 

827
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,600
We get an interesting mix of 
people and that one, we get 

828
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,300
people who are just starting 
their careers. 

829
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:44,300
And we also get, you know, the 
the fifteen-year-old sort of 

830
00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:49,200
expert kind of folks, the 
convergence sitting in the back 

831
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,100
I think I'm talking about is 
desperately trying to catch up 

832
00:44:54,100 --> 00:44:57,400
or, or just want to Heckle. 
So that one's always fun to go 

833
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,200
to, right? 
But actually, I mean, 

834
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,700
personally, I always find it 
useful, 8. 

835
00:45:01,700 --> 00:45:04,100
I really get to go to these 
things, so I get to see all this

836
00:45:04,100 --> 00:45:07,500
stuff in review up front. 
But I always find that one 

837
00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:11,900
incredibly useful because it 
reminds me of you know, bits of 

838
00:45:11,908 --> 00:45:16,000
the industry that maybe I'm not 
directly involved in right now 

839
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,200
that I forgotten about. 
And it also keeps me up to date 

840
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,500
usually with some new stuff. 
That's coming along, just just 

841
00:45:22,500 --> 00:45:25,000
enough, so that, you know, I 
know enough to be dangerous, 

842
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:29,700
right? 
Which for me is is perfect and 

843
00:45:29,700 --> 00:45:32,300
then there's quite often a 
social event as well, right? 

844
00:45:32,300 --> 00:45:35,800
So I do, I don't know exactly 
when it's going to be, but I 

845
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,700
expect that ID Pro will probably
have some kind of happy hour or 

846
00:45:38,700 --> 00:45:40,700
gathering whether its formal or 
informal. 

847
00:45:40,700 --> 00:45:43,900
There will be a thing that 
coalesces right. 

848
00:45:43,900 --> 00:45:51,200
In fact I talked about the The 
sort of newcomers session that 

849
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:56,500
we're going to do this year that
emerged in part from the 

850
00:45:56,500 --> 00:45:59,400
conversations that we had in the
in the learning the feedback we 

851
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,300
took but it also emerged in part
from a Grassroots effort that 

852
00:46:02,300 --> 00:46:05,100
took place last year when we 
were in Denver. 

853
00:46:05,100 --> 00:46:07,300
When I do pro kind of went. 
Hey you know we think there's a 

854
00:46:07,300 --> 00:46:09,700
bunch of new people here. 
We should try and get together. 

855
00:46:09,900 --> 00:46:12,100
Some kind of you know, newcomers
breakfast. 

856
00:46:12,100 --> 00:46:16,000
It's very last minute, very 
Community Driven effort, you 

857
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,300
know. 
Pretty good that it happened. 

858
00:46:18,300 --> 00:46:21,100
And so sort of you know it's 
nice to be able to take that and

859
00:46:21,100 --> 00:46:23,300
evolve it a little bit and wrap 
it into the show. 

860
00:46:23,700 --> 00:46:26,000
Women and identity are going to 
help us with that as well this 

861
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,800
year. 
And so, you know, that brings me

862
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,600
to Wed rate. 
We've had a close relationship 

863
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,500
with weird for a long time that 
relationship tends to be a 

864
00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:37,500
little bit less sort of formally
built into the agenda and some 

865
00:46:37,500 --> 00:46:40,800
of that is reflective of, you 
know, the differences between 

866
00:46:41,100 --> 00:46:44,800
between those two organizations.
But you know, will quite often 

867
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,300
have conversations with worried 
about. 

868
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,000
Look, you know that particular 
speakers we can we can bring in.

869
00:46:51,700 --> 00:46:56,500
They've done quite a lot of work
on some of the inclusivity 

870
00:46:56,500 --> 00:47:01,500
impact of the identity systems 
that we build, right? 

871
00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:04,600
So this isn't about the hiring 
question or the professional 

872
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:09,000
development question. 
It's about the availability of 

873
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,900
the systems that we've created 
to ought to allow, you know, 

874
00:47:11,900 --> 00:47:15,600
access for everybody. 
And so we've, you know, we've 

875
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,900
had sessions. 
That material in the pasta, and 

876
00:47:18,500 --> 00:47:21,200
that will be similar work going 
on this year. 

877
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:25,600
I imagine identify this as well.
The other thing that we've done 

878
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,800
with both organizations that we 
did up front this year and arm 

879
00:47:29,100 --> 00:47:33,900
is, we did a session in this 
case, specifically aimed at 

880
00:47:33,900 --> 00:47:36,300
women and it was reasonably 
successful. 

881
00:47:36,300 --> 00:47:38,600
And so, I'm considering whether 
there are ways we can extend 

882
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,500
that going into next year about 
okay. 

883
00:47:41,500 --> 00:47:47,300
How do you put a proposal into a
cfp because Cuz if you've never 

884
00:47:47,300 --> 00:47:53,800
done that before, that can be a 
little bit daunting, and it's 

885
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,500
made least favorite part, right?
Like, it's not easy. 

886
00:47:57,700 --> 00:48:00,700
I mean, like, I put proposals 
in, on my own behalf to other 

887
00:48:00,700 --> 00:48:05,100
conferences, I won't name them 
on a fairly regular basis and 

888
00:48:05,100 --> 00:48:08,200
it's, you know, it's 
nerve-racking, it's like, is 

889
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:09,900
this going to work? 
Am I doing the right thing? 

890
00:48:09,900 --> 00:48:12,200
So, if I answer the right 
questions the right way, have I 

891
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,600
have, I optimized my chances of 
being selected, right? 

892
00:48:16,100 --> 00:48:20,500
As A human reading it or is some
a I sort of just don't know. 

893
00:48:20,700 --> 00:48:23,600
We can get into that 
conversation a bit but you know,

894
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,600
it's it's tough, right? 
And so we thought, well look and

895
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,900
this was an initiative that 
really came out of of ID Pro. 

896
00:48:29,900 --> 00:48:32,100
And we're together saying, look,
you know, we'd like to try and 

897
00:48:32,100 --> 00:48:34,300
do something that's, that's 
aimed at that audience. 

898
00:48:34,300 --> 00:48:37,000
So let's, you know, let's put 
something together. 

899
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,200
Let's do a presentation. 
Let's try and see if we can 

900
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,400
improve that experience. 
Like, I say this year, 

901
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:48,500
particularly for, for women 
Wanting to put proposals it and 

902
00:48:48,500 --> 00:48:50,700
then we'll look and see if there
are ways that we can extend that

903
00:48:50,700 --> 00:48:54,100
going to next year. 
Now, there are, of course, 

904
00:48:54,100 --> 00:48:58,800
plenty of other both industry 
associations and professional 

905
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,300
organizations that we have 
varying degrees of relationship 

906
00:49:02,300 --> 00:49:04,100
with. 
And the way that they get 

907
00:49:04,100 --> 00:49:08,900
embedded into the event, then, 
you know, varies depending on 

908
00:49:09,700 --> 00:49:12,400
who they are how they operate, 
what they're you know, 

909
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,600
relationship with the industry 
is what the relationship the 

910
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,100
show is all of those things. 
Things, right? 

911
00:49:16,100 --> 00:49:20,700
So and that ranges from, you 
know, the sort of obvious 

912
00:49:20,700 --> 00:49:25,800
standards or at least technical 
organizations, like Fido like oh

913
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:32,600
IDF like Cantara, like away X, 
and so on, I'd be remiss if I 

914
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,000
didn't mention the idsa, which 
is a little different. 

915
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:39,600
But again, you know, very 
involved, very present in the 

916
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,100
industry. 
I think. 

917
00:49:42,100 --> 00:49:44,700
Every single one of those 
organizations is going to be 

918
00:49:45,300 --> 00:49:46,300
identical. 
Us this year. 

919
00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:50,900
But more importantly we engage 
with them, not just for the 

920
00:49:50,900 --> 00:49:52,900
conference, but actually right 
through the planning process 

921
00:49:52,908 --> 00:49:54,700
through the year. 
And that some of those 

922
00:49:54,700 --> 00:49:57,100
conversations is what then helps
inform rate. 

923
00:49:57,100 --> 00:49:59,200
What do we need to be thinking 
about in the agenda? 

924
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,100
What are we looking for in the 
cfp? 

925
00:50:01,100 --> 00:50:05,000
Are there some things that just 
don't have a place to live in 

926
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,200
the way that we currently 
construct the agenda that we 

927
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:11,600
need to add or extend or 
consider for the main stage in 

928
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,600
some way because they don't that
they're not there yet but we 

929
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:16,300
need to get there over time. 
Time kind of thing. 

930
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:25,300
So like I say it's flexible and 
varied and I think there are 

931
00:50:25,300 --> 00:50:28,500
other organizations that will 
increasingly start to build 

932
00:50:28,500 --> 00:50:32,300
relationships with. 
In fact, you know, we talked 

933
00:50:32,900 --> 00:50:36,800
actually, we didn't talk about 
professional certifications, 

934
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,200
right? 
So that's obviously a space that

935
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:43,000
it Pros increasingly playing in,
but lots of people in this area 

936
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,300
have got one of the is e 
squared. 

937
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,900
Certifications right? 
Lots of people have one of the 

938
00:50:49,900 --> 00:50:53,700
Privacy ones from the IEP. 
So actually Claire also use the 

939
00:50:53,700 --> 00:50:57,400
CEO the executive director over 
at AC Squared is going to be on 

940
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:02,000
the stage this year. 
And you know talking a little 

941
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,900
bit about some of her 
perspectives in in connection 

942
00:51:05,900 --> 00:51:09,800
with that, you know, what is the
chief identity officer look like

943
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:11,900
conversation, right? 
So I think that will be really 

944
00:51:11,900 --> 00:51:13,000
interesting to get that 
perspective. 

945
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:17,800
We've got a number of Of folks 
involved both on the committee 

946
00:51:18,100 --> 00:51:20,300
and in the agenda who've got 
privacy. 

947
00:51:20,300 --> 00:51:24,700
Qualifications of fact, I do. 
And so I expect that that's 

948
00:51:24,700 --> 00:51:27,800
relationship, that will continue
to develop with the IPP over 

949
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:33,200
time. 
We've had, you know, I sort of I

950
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,600
made a note that I then ignored 
upfront to say and I will now 

951
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,400
say it, which is, I was slightly
hesitant to start naming 

952
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,000
organization so I'm bound to 
forget somebody, right? 

953
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,600
So it's our, if it's a hazard of
a Of the medium, right? 

954
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,900
It is, you know, it's a little 
bit like the Oscars acceptance 

955
00:51:49,900 --> 00:51:55,900
speech, isn't it? 
But that's what we try and do, 

956
00:51:55,900 --> 00:51:58,100
right? 
It's a big tent. 

957
00:51:58,500 --> 00:52:02,700
Everybody is welcome. 
And then from an agenda, 

958
00:52:02,700 --> 00:52:05,600
standpoint, and it sort of 
strategic direction for the show

959
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,000
standpoint. 
We try and I say, we, you know, 

960
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:10,500
The Advisory Board in the 
content committee. 

961
00:52:10,500 --> 00:52:14,900
Try and Garner as much input as 
we can from all of those sources

962
00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:19,800
whether I named Add them, or not
to try and make sure that we are

963
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:25,500
as directionally representative 
as we can be whilst recognizing 

964
00:52:25,500 --> 00:52:30,900
that we've only got four days 
and it's not possible to run the

965
00:52:30,900 --> 00:52:34,700
thing for 24 hours. 
So, you know, it's kind of, its 

966
00:52:34,700 --> 00:52:39,300
kind of limiting but we try, 
maybe that's the next big idea 

967
00:52:39,300 --> 00:52:42,000
of some sort of like, identity, 
circus, or theme park or 

968
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:43,900
something. 
It's open year-round. 

969
00:52:44,100 --> 00:52:47,500
All the vendors from Are there 
everybody can kind of come and 

970
00:52:47,500 --> 00:52:50,500
go as they please? 
I imagine it'd be maybe a maybe 

971
00:52:50,500 --> 00:52:52,600
it's you know, a VR theme park 
or some sort. 

972
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,300
I don't know if that'll be all 
primary topic for next year. 

973
00:52:55,300 --> 00:52:57,700
The identity circus, I can I can
see it. 

974
00:52:57,700 --> 00:53:03,700
Now, the last time we talked 
identify verse was with you was 

975
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,100
episode 149 and we asked you a 
question? 

976
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,100
What's the difference between 
digital identity? 

977
00:53:08,100 --> 00:53:13,000
And I am and that spawned into 
one of our most? 

978
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,900
I do fun / controversial. /. 
I don't know what to call it 

979
00:53:16,900 --> 00:53:21,300
episodes which is episode 51 
where we took that question? 

980
00:53:21,300 --> 00:53:24,400
And we asked a whole bunch of 
people in a lot of people who 

981
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,100
are listeners of the show you 
know kind of names industry that

982
00:53:27,100 --> 00:53:29,400
kind of thing. 
What is the difference between 

983
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,700
digital identity and identity 
and access management? 

984
00:53:31,700 --> 00:53:34,800
We got a whole bunch of 
different answers and you know I

985
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:35,900
want to give credit where it's 
due. 

986
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,500
It started here when a 
conversation with Andy and you 

987
00:53:38,500 --> 00:53:41,100
know what does that mean? 
I'm curious. 

988
00:53:41,500 --> 00:53:44,400
How do you define the two? 
Now that we're a year later? 

989
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:45,400
And I don't know if you've had a
chance to go. 

990
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:50,000
Go back and you know listen what
other people have said, you tell

991
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,400
me since you're the one who 
started this problem, what is 

992
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,300
the difference between digital 
identity and identity and access

993
00:53:56,300 --> 00:54:00,300
management? 
Is another thoughtful, pause 

994
00:54:00,300 --> 00:54:02,700
there for everyone. 
Thank you. 

995
00:54:02,700 --> 00:54:05,500
That's, I'm good at that. 
It's just don't say anything for

996
00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:10,900
a minute. 
Um, so yeah, you know, I for 

997
00:54:10,900 --> 00:54:13,700
one, I'm kind of amused about, I
don't know whether to be amused 

998
00:54:13,700 --> 00:54:16,300
or gratified, or embarrassed 
that I seem to have started a 

999
00:54:16,300 --> 00:54:18,400
thing. 
I didn't necessarily mean to 

1000
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:22,200
start a thing. 
But, II. 

1001
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:26,700
Don't think that my perspective 
has necessarily changed, right? 

1002
00:54:26,700 --> 00:54:31,200
So, I saw some of the back and 
forth about this and I take it 

1003
00:54:31,300 --> 00:54:33,400
as ever been British. 
I take, I think everybody's 

1004
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:39,200
right, right. 
But I do think that there is A 

1005
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:47,500
breath that is emerging to the 
industry that I don't think 

1006
00:54:47,500 --> 00:54:50,700
we've necessarily thought about 
before, right? 

1007
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:58,900
So for me I am tends to be 
focused on what I would call a 

1008
00:54:58,900 --> 00:55:03,800
set of Infrastructure 
capabilities, right? 

1009
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:12,500
And I say that absolutely in a 
broad and positive sense, right?

1010
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:18,600
It encompasses all sorts of 
things like authorization 

1011
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:23,900
authentication and Federation 
and SSO and Wham and you know 

1012
00:55:24,900 --> 00:55:29,800
what didn't I just say 
provisioning and IGA and all of 

1013
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:30,700
those things. 
Things. 

1014
00:55:30,700 --> 00:55:38,000
Right. 
What's emerging again from my 

1015
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:42,300
point of view, in my perspective
is that there's a whole bunch of

1016
00:55:42,300 --> 00:55:49,400
stuff around. 
The the identity verification 

1017
00:55:49,700 --> 00:55:52,800
identity, you know, trusted 
tributes. 

1018
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,300
I'm going to say trust 
Frameworks. 

1019
00:55:55,300 --> 00:55:58,200
I don't know if we're playing a 
drinking game yet, but that 

1020
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:02,000
feels to me like it's going to 
replace blockchain as being a 

1021
00:56:02,008 --> 00:56:03,700
thing where you have to take a 
drink every time. 

1022
00:56:03,700 --> 00:56:06,300
Somebody says it, right, trust 
framework off we go. 

1023
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:11,700
But, you know, it's it's a thing
and they have value and schemes 

1024
00:56:11,900 --> 00:56:14,100
and all of those sorts of things
you look at what's happening 

1025
00:56:14,100 --> 00:56:18,600
with mdl, you Look at what's 
happening with, you know, that 

1026
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,900
the wallets. 
Sorry, that's this is hard to 

1027
00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:25,100
say as words as opposed to 
having it sort of written down 

1028
00:56:25,100 --> 00:56:27,000
so you can see where the 
apostrophe is. 

1029
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:29,800
So the various wallet 
initiatives. 

1030
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:37,100
There we go. 
And a lot of that is not stuff 

1031
00:56:37,100 --> 00:56:41,700
that would traditionally fall 
into that that the scope the 

1032
00:56:41,700 --> 00:56:48,300
Ambit of I am right in my mind. 
Digital identity is a little 

1033
00:56:48,300 --> 00:56:53,200
broader than that and I think 
it's increasingly important for 

1034
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:58,600
us as I'd only professionals to 
recognize that and back to an 

1035
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,100
observation that you made you 
know, towards the top of the 

1036
00:57:02,100 --> 00:57:09,300
show jeff which Chiz. 
Understanding that we need to 

1037
00:57:09,300 --> 00:57:14,000
increasingly talk to people and 
engage with people who do not 

1038
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:18,100
have identity as a background or
even don't have a technical 

1039
00:57:18,100 --> 00:57:22,500
background, right? 
And help them understand where 

1040
00:57:22,500 --> 00:57:28,700
we fit into their world, right? 
That's the shift that I think 

1041
00:57:28,700 --> 00:57:32,200
needs to happen. 
In fact, I've been involved in a

1042
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:37,300
project in with my, you know. 
Me as a consultant hat on for 

1043
00:57:37,300 --> 00:57:39,900
the last. 
I want to say three months or so

1044
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,500
and it's one of those things 
where predictably I can't talk 

1045
00:57:44,500 --> 00:57:46,500
about the details. 
I'm going to have to hand wave 

1046
00:57:46,500 --> 00:57:51,000
virtually and and orally around 
some of the topics. 

1047
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:55,300
But you know, essentially a 
project to help some folks you 

1048
00:57:55,300 --> 00:57:59,400
know kind of understand where 
some of these these broader 

1049
00:57:59,500 --> 00:58:03,700
scale digital identity 
initiatives, you know, verified 

1050
00:58:03,700 --> 00:58:05,800
anywhere, that kind of thing. 
Uh is going to fit into their 

1051
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:10,000
world and had lots of great 
conversations with the technical

1052
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,200
folks that was fine. 
And then we got a couple of 

1053
00:58:12,207 --> 00:58:13,800
folks in the room. 
If you did not come from a 

1054
00:58:13,808 --> 00:58:16,200
technical background, didn't 
come from, I'd any background in

1055
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:24,800
particular, smart people, but 
they hear a word like You know, 

1056
00:58:25,100 --> 00:58:29,500
authentication user arrived at 
the site and they authenticated 

1057
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:35,000
and in their head, what that 
means is that the service 

1058
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:38,100
provide a new who the person 
was. 

1059
00:58:39,100 --> 00:58:43,300
Now. 
We know he says gesticulating 

1060
00:58:43,300 --> 00:58:48,600
wildly at Jeff on the screen, we
know that that isn't what 

1061
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:53,900
authentication means. 
But were increasingly having to 

1062
00:58:53,900 --> 00:58:58,700
be very clear when we go talk to
people about what it does mean. 

1063
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,700
And so I think for me that's 
really what this is about is 

1064
00:59:02,700 --> 00:59:04,600
digital identity. 
Is more than just the 

1065
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:08,300
infrastructure, it's a whole 
bunch of new things and a whole 

1066
00:59:08,300 --> 00:59:13,100
bunch of new audiences that we 
got to go and engage with And I 

1067
00:59:13,107 --> 00:59:17,600
think we need to recognize that.
Understanding the context in the

1068
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,100
audience I think is a big part 
of that conversation. 

1069
00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:24,000
I've noticed a shift in just the
way that I even I talked about 

1070
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:29,300
any management over the last few
years where I felt like a few 

1071
00:59:29,300 --> 00:59:32,000
years ago you could be maybe a 
little looser with your 

1072
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:32,800
language. 
Okay. 

1073
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,500
We're kind of talking about this
thing and you know, it's kind of

1074
00:59:35,508 --> 00:59:38,700
nebulous and we're kind of that.
I find myself having to be a lot

1075
00:59:38,700 --> 00:59:41,800
more precise with my language 
based on who I'm talking to you.

1076
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,700
Because if I, if I say okay well
yes they authenticate it and I'm

1077
00:59:44,707 --> 00:59:46,800
talking to Scott McPherson. 
I'll have to happen but they do 

1078
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:47,900
what were the factors but a 
little. 

1079
00:59:47,900 --> 00:59:51,300
All right, I'm talking to a CIO 
or an executive or someone 

1080
00:59:51,300 --> 00:59:53,400
without, you know, that kind of 
context background. 

1081
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:55,500
They probably don't care, right?
They don't. 

1082
00:59:56,100 --> 00:59:58,400
Was it secure? 
Did it happen was the customer 

1083
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,200
was the employee happy where 
they would go through a lot. 

1084
01:00:00,300 --> 01:00:03,000
Great, I don't even know the 
details on that side. 

1085
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,500
So I have seen that that shift 
over the years. 

1086
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:09,500
You mentioned a fennec 810 
occasion and I want to start to 

1087
01:00:09,500 --> 01:00:11,100
wrap things up here because I've
been really generous with your 

1088
01:00:11,100 --> 01:00:14,100
time. 
I feel like we've solved with 

1089
01:00:14,100 --> 01:00:15,300
education. 
We fixed it. 

1090
01:00:15,300 --> 01:00:17,500
We're done. 
House keys are a thing Fido has 

1091
01:00:17,500 --> 01:00:19,700
done a great job of getting all 
the major players on. 

1092
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:21,300
We don't have to worry about 
anymore. 

1093
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:24,200
So what I'm thinking next is, 
what is our next 

1094
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:27,000
thought-provoking conversation? 
Very much along the lines of, 

1095
01:00:27,300 --> 01:00:29,100
you know, the difference between
a digital identity identity 

1096
01:00:29,100 --> 01:00:32,000
access management. 
So what is something that you're

1097
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,400
thinking about like from a next 
perspective that we should be 

1098
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,000
asking the questions? 
Yeah that's it. 

1099
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,200
That's a really good question. 
I'm sitting here thinking get 

1100
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:41,300
with an equation is dead 
low-middle Federation. 

1101
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:46,900
Um so so like I I take your 
point Absolutely right. 

1102
01:00:46,900 --> 01:00:52,700
I think, you know In fairness. 
Yeah, there's a lot that we've 

1103
01:00:52,700 --> 01:00:54,900
quote-unquote sold, 
authentication, getting it 

1104
01:00:54,900 --> 01:00:59,900
deployed, getting it out there. 
Getting people to use these new 

1105
01:00:59,900 --> 01:01:05,100
systems and be comfortable with 
them is a journey, right? 

1106
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:10,100
I'm not great at predictions. 
That's one of the reasons why 

1107
01:01:10,100 --> 01:01:12,900
going to Vegas, doesn't really 
work for me because I am not 

1108
01:01:12,900 --> 01:01:15,200
going to be gambling, but but 
the food is good. 

1109
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:20,500
Yeah. 
Yeah, but I it's at least in my 

1110
01:01:20,500 --> 01:01:23,100
view a five-year problem if not 
right? 

1111
01:01:23,100 --> 01:01:26,400
So and I think it's also fair to
say that there are still lots of

1112
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,700
conversations going on about 
some of the details underneath 

1113
01:01:29,700 --> 01:01:32,800
things like passkey, right? 
We're okay. 

1114
01:01:33,100 --> 01:01:35,500
Yeah, for this 80% use case, 
it's great. 

1115
01:01:35,500 --> 01:01:37,600
Here's a twenty percent use case
that actually kind of matters 

1116
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:39,000
because it's in a regulated 
industry. 

1117
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:42,100
And how do we deal with that? 
And what is the user experience 

1118
01:01:42,100 --> 01:01:43,700
look like? 
What is the user experience? 

1119
01:01:43,700 --> 01:01:48,100
Look like if you're, you know, 
No, on an old device versus one 

1120
01:01:48,100 --> 01:01:51,800
of these shiny new things, you 
know, what's the user 

1121
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:53,600
experience. 
If you drop your phone in your 

1122
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:55,300
beer, you know, that kind of 
thing, right? 

1123
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:59,500
So there's a lot still to be 
done, but it's very you get 

1124
01:01:59,500 --> 01:02:02,700
suspicion. 
Suspiciously specific example in

1125
01:02:02,700 --> 01:02:04,800
what I just never happened to 
me, but I've seen it happen to 

1126
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:05,900
other people heard about it, 
right? 

1127
01:02:05,900 --> 01:02:10,200
Yeah, okay. 
So, you know, I think there's a 

1128
01:02:10,207 --> 01:02:12,700
lot still to talk about there 
and in fact, we've got, you 

1129
01:02:12,700 --> 01:02:16,300
know, as it happens. 
And honestly, dear listener, 

1130
01:02:16,300 --> 01:02:18,300
this was not a fed question, 
right? 

1131
01:02:18,300 --> 01:02:20,800
But we do have a number of 
sessions on exactly those topics

1132
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:25,200
that identifies. 
Having said all of that, I think

1133
01:02:25,700 --> 01:02:30,300
a shift that I think, and I 
think a number of people on the 

1134
01:02:30,308 --> 01:02:34,100
content committee thought that 
we'd started to see not just in 

1135
01:02:34,100 --> 01:02:36,000
the call for presentations but 
actually in some of the 

1136
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:39,700
conversations that we're having 
around the edges of stuff is 

1137
01:02:39,700 --> 01:02:45,900
that authorization which has 
been like hesitate to say this 

1138
01:02:45,900 --> 01:02:48,800
and get a bunch of people bent 
out of shape, but a little 

1139
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:53,600
static for a while, right? 
I think we're starting to see a 

1140
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:57,200
sudden. 
Even sudden is not the right 

1141
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:02,000
word, eight gradual, but 
increasing. 

1142
01:03:05,100 --> 01:03:10,000
Focus on. 
That area, right? 

1143
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:16,800
It's almost as if now I figured 
out good ways and safe ways to 

1144
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:22,800
get people in the front door. 
Now, I've got that put to bed, 

1145
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:27,600
let me make sure that they can 
only get into their own hotel 

1146
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:29,300
room. 
He says, stretching the analogy 

1147
01:03:29,300 --> 01:03:32,000
to Breaking Point and not into 
anybody else's, right? 

1148
01:03:33,700 --> 01:03:36,400
I think there's some interesting
activity going on there. 

1149
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,400
I think there's a bunch of 
interesting questions to be 

1150
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:43,900
asked maybe a standards level 
but particularly our product 

1151
01:03:43,900 --> 01:03:51,100
level around, how do we 
integrate things like Verifiable

1152
01:03:51,100 --> 01:03:57,600
credentials into those flows. 
There's a real thinking that 

1153
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:01,100
needs to get done there. 
And the other one that's come up

1154
01:04:01,100 --> 01:04:09,400
in that regard is Some of the 
mmm, more challenging use, cases

1155
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:14,400
around delegation with 
real-world identity, right? 

1156
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:19,100
So in a lot of places, a lot of 
countries around the world, 

1157
01:04:19,100 --> 01:04:22,900
we've now got a bunch of stuff 
going on with age, estimation 

1158
01:04:22,900 --> 01:04:26,700
age verification, right? 
Very sensible. 

1159
01:04:26,700 --> 01:04:35,000
Very good, very fine. 
But a lot of the legislation and

1160
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:38,800
the regulation that's being 
developed quite understandably 

1161
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:44,200
as sort of slightly shied away. 
From the complexities of, I'm a 

1162
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:48,400
say a parent or Guardian 
managing this and access on 

1163
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:52,400
behalf of a child who is of age 
XYZ, right? 

1164
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:54,500
How does that? 
Now, these are questions that 

1165
01:04:54,500 --> 01:04:55,600
we've been talking about in the 
industry. 

1166
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:59,100
A long time, but back to the 
previous sort of segments of 

1167
01:04:59,100 --> 01:05:02,200
conversation. 
Not everybody else has, right? 

1168
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:05,100
And so it turns out that there's
a little bit of Education that 

1169
01:05:05,100 --> 01:05:07,800
we probably need to do. 
But there's also probably some 

1170
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,900
things that we haven't thought 
about all that aren't yet baked 

1171
01:05:10,900 --> 01:05:13,300
into the technology. 
And I think that's really gonna 

1172
01:05:13,300 --> 01:05:18,700
hit us particularly in in that 
authorization space. 

1173
01:05:18,700 --> 01:05:20,200
So I mean, that's where it gets 
critical. 

1174
01:05:22,300 --> 01:05:26,200
So there's right for me, I think
that's going to be really 

1175
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,400
interesting getting into into 
next year. 

1176
01:05:29,500 --> 01:05:31,000
I agree. 
I think this is another 

1177
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:33,300
Universal topic, right? 
Everybody struggled with 

1178
01:05:33,300 --> 01:05:35,700
authentication, is it fixed? 
No, I was being kind of 

1179
01:05:35,707 --> 01:05:37,800
tongue-in-cheek before but it's 
getting better, right? 

1180
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:41,100
We're starting to see really 
significant progress and making 

1181
01:05:41,100 --> 01:05:44,100
it a better more secure user 
experience. 

1182
01:05:45,500 --> 01:05:47,800
The authorization is another one
that a lot of organizations 

1183
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:49,800
struggle with, I don't know how 
many companies that I talk to. 

1184
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:51,900
They're like, oh yeah, we're 
trying to do row base. 

1185
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:53,300
Access Control. 
Oh my gosh. 

1186
01:05:53,300 --> 01:05:57,100
Okay, congratulations. 
And I'm sorry, it is very 

1187
01:05:57,100 --> 01:05:59,100
difficult to do that. 
And we've seen a whole bunch of 

1188
01:05:59,100 --> 01:06:02,700
the use, like, you know, X BAC, 
right? 

1189
01:06:02,700 --> 01:06:07,700
Roll are back a back P back. 
I don't know, there's probably a

1190
01:06:07,700 --> 01:06:09,600
one for each kind of back that's
out there. 

1191
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,400
Now we're standing see things 
like zero standing privileges, 

1192
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:13,800
right? 
All this is doing with 

1193
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:15,100
authorizations and things like 
that. 

1194
01:06:15,100 --> 01:06:19,700
So I think it'd be interesting 
to see how the market the 

1195
01:06:19,700 --> 01:06:24,300
industry and sort of the thing. 
Around this starts to fine-tune 

1196
01:06:24,300 --> 01:06:26,500
that I love that analogy, right?
We've got a front door. 

1197
01:06:26,900 --> 01:06:28,400
I'll take it instead of the 
hotel. 

1198
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:30,200
Like, okay, now we've got him in
the house. 

1199
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:32,500
How do we make sure that I go 
and get my medicine cabinet? 

1200
01:06:32,700 --> 01:06:34,900
All right, we're going to the 
liquor cabinet or if they are 

1201
01:06:34,900 --> 01:06:37,400
allowed, you know, can they get 
is that sorts of things? 

1202
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:39,800
I think that's really kind of a 
natural evolution of that. 

1203
01:06:40,700 --> 01:06:43,400
All right, we're running over an
hour now, but I want to, I want 

1204
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,000
to end on a lighter note. 
And here's my question for you. 

1205
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:49,500
This is not indicative of our 
guests any way, shape, or form. 

1206
01:06:49,500 --> 01:06:55,000
But let's just pretend End. 
You are a thief that steals only

1207
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:58,200
things that caused a minor 
inconvenience to your victims. 

1208
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:01,500
What do you steal? 
So this isn't we're talking, 

1209
01:07:01,500 --> 01:07:05,400
we're not talking like Grand 
Theft, you know homicide. 

1210
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:08,700
But I like that it's got to be 
something that's very you know 

1211
01:07:09,700 --> 01:07:11,800
very inconvenience is like oh 
that's super annoying. 

1212
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:16,000
What's the thing that you steal?
This is Jeff trying to end the 

1213
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:21,900
light in them first so you know,
that's that. 

1214
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:25,200
It's an interesting one, I 
think. 

1215
01:07:26,700 --> 01:07:29,500
I can think of all sorts of 
things but I think the one that 

1216
01:07:29,500 --> 01:07:32,200
would that's small but would 
work me. 

1217
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:35,000
Certainly I have run into this, 
not not through Steph but 

1218
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:36,900
through let's call it user 
error. 

1219
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:43,200
So if you're a, if you're a Mac 
Book user, you may remember, or 

1220
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:47,900
in fact, have yet again, the 
wonderful magsafe power 

1221
01:07:47,900 --> 01:07:52,600
connector and they switch from 
like a 4-pin to a 6 pin or a 

1222
01:07:52,607 --> 01:07:54,400
6-pin 25. 
I can't remember which way 

1223
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:57,200
around it was and you could get 
this Fantastic. 

1224
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:59,200
Little adapter, right? 
That solved. 

1225
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,500
All your problems and meant that
you could use the old charger 

1226
01:08:01,500 --> 01:08:05,500
with the new thick. 
Yeah, I would steal that. 

1227
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:10,800
If you found there the the 
gaping hole in the armor of the 

1228
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:14,000
Maco world and dongle life is, 
as we like to call it. 

1229
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:15,900
I think that's a good one, you 
know. 

1230
01:08:15,900 --> 01:08:17,899
I thought about this question 
myself is kind of sit here 

1231
01:08:17,907 --> 01:08:20,300
recording. 
And, you know, I think of things

1232
01:08:20,300 --> 01:08:24,500
like, you know, stealing 
someone's chapstick, I'm 

1233
01:08:24,500 --> 01:08:27,200
thinking of something a little 
more nefarious, a very specific,

1234
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:33,200
I'm going to take a couple 
pieces of a Lego or a puzzle set

1235
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:37,600
or something like that that you 
cannot finish whatever it is, 

1236
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:42,300
you're trying to build without 
that piece, that's evil that 

1237
01:08:42,300 --> 01:08:44,500
went to see. 
And the worst thing about that 

1238
01:08:44,500 --> 01:08:46,700
is I actually know how to solve 
for it as well. 

1239
01:08:46,700 --> 01:08:49,300
Which would require me to go buy
a 3D printer, right? 

1240
01:08:49,300 --> 01:08:52,899
Exactly. 
Oh yeah. 

1241
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:53,899
How many people have come 
across? 

1242
01:08:53,899 --> 01:08:55,500
Right? 
You're doing a puzzle, you're 

1243
01:08:55,500 --> 01:08:56,899
playing a game or something, 
right? 

1244
01:08:56,899 --> 01:08:59,200
And there's just that One piece 
missing or two or three, you 

1245
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:02,100
know, and here's the thing. 
As I wouldn't take the last 

1246
01:09:02,100 --> 01:09:06,800
piece, I would take like those. 
The piece that's like five or 

1247
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:10,500
six away from the end and really
make a devious, that's the way I

1248
01:09:10,508 --> 01:09:11,700
would do it. 
Yeah. 

1249
01:09:11,700 --> 01:09:14,700
Now that's, that's, that's 
Machiavellian. 

1250
01:09:14,700 --> 01:09:16,700
I think in its quality job. 
Thank you. 

1251
01:09:16,700 --> 01:09:18,899
Thank you very much. 
I will take that as a compliment

1252
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:20,700
and how it's not every day that 
I get to use the word 

1253
01:09:20,700 --> 01:09:23,200
Machiavelli and so this is true.
I think that might be the first 

1254
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:26,399
time actually on the show. 
So that'll be a tidbit for 

1255
01:09:26,399 --> 01:09:29,600
Jeopardy, when When will you 
become a Jeopardy question at 

1256
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,100
some point, the future and even 
really great. 

1257
01:09:32,100 --> 01:09:34,500
If your time, I'm gonna go ahead
and wrap things up here. 

1258
01:09:34,700 --> 01:09:37,899
I dunno versus coming up, May 
30th to June 2nd. 

1259
01:09:37,899 --> 01:09:40,800
It's at the Aria Resort and 
Casino in Las Vegas. 

1260
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:42,800
I will be there and you'll be 
there. 

1261
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:47,399
Jim, theoretically be there, so 
we're hopeful, you know, come on

1262
01:09:47,399 --> 01:09:50,600
up, introduce yourselves. 
You know, we love to engage with

1263
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:54,300
folks out there and talk and 
just have a conversation about 

1264
01:09:54,300 --> 01:09:57,100
whatever could be about Identity
or it can be about, you know, my

1265
01:09:57,100 --> 01:10:00,200
Terror. 
Ville stealing of Lego and 

1266
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:02,000
puzzle pieces. 
That would really, you know, 

1267
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:05,400
piss people off. 
Don't forget about our identity 

1268
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:09,600
versus registration code. 
The discount 20% off its ID V 

1269
01:10:09,700 --> 01:10:14,000
Dash icen 23, it'll be on our 
show notes, you can always 

1270
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:15,200
reference there. 
Thank you again. 

1271
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:17,900
Andy and CRA for hooking us up 
with that and hooking our 

1272
01:10:17,900 --> 01:10:19,500
listeners up that. 
So hopefully people are able to 

1273
01:10:19,500 --> 01:10:23,100
take advantage of that we'll 
have links to identify first.com

1274
01:10:23,100 --> 01:10:28,400
in our show notes, hindle 
consulting.com, connecting, Andy

1275
01:10:28,500 --> 01:10:31,600
LinkedIn, and obviously can 
connect with Jim. 

1276
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:33,900
And I, whenever you want, we're 
on the web. 

1277
01:10:33,900 --> 01:10:37,900
Idac podcast.com, or on Twitter 
at, idac podcasts, run, 

1278
01:10:37,900 --> 01:10:41,100
Mastodon. 
Even at idac podcast at infosec 

1279
01:10:41,100 --> 01:10:43,400
got exchanged. 
So, don't forget to check us out

1280
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:45,800
there and be sure to like 
subscribe, write a review, all 

1281
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:49,000
that stuff, totally helps us and
really keeps us encourage you 

1282
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:51,600
keep putting out content. 
Real quick question for Andy. 

1283
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:52,800
What are your thoughts on 
Mastodon? 

1284
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:56,800
Are you on Mastodon yet? 
I am, I have just like two days 

1285
01:10:56,800 --> 01:11:00,300
ago set. 
Myself up to not ask me what my 

1286
01:11:00,300 --> 01:11:02,900
thing is, I'll give it to you 
afterwards, and you can stick it

1287
01:11:02,900 --> 01:11:06,100
in the, in the show notes. 
I honestly can't remember. 

1288
01:11:06,100 --> 01:11:12,900
But yes, I am, I think, you 
know, it's, it seems like a 

1289
01:11:12,900 --> 01:11:17,600
healthy place to be for. 
Now, I'll be honest and say my, 

1290
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:20,000
you know, I'm not a huge social 
media person, right? 

1291
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:24,200
I do LinkedIn, a little bit more
than anything else, but, yeah, 

1292
01:11:24,700 --> 01:11:26,900
I'm there. 
I know, lots of people are as 

1293
01:11:26,900 --> 01:11:29,200
well. 
Yes, I shall. 

1294
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:34,000
I shall lick you up and we can 
we can connect and toot at each 

1295
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:37,500
other or whatever it's called. 
It is a very weird thing. 

1296
01:11:38,100 --> 01:11:40,800
Yeah I'm glad you mentioned the 
the difficulty in Reading. 

1297
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:43,700
That's my biggest problem with 
Macedon is is I don't feel like 

1298
01:11:43,700 --> 01:11:45,800
it's a very user-friendly 
experience. 

1299
01:11:46,300 --> 01:11:49,500
You have to know not only now 
that, you know the name but 

1300
01:11:49,500 --> 01:11:53,300
which server are you on? 
It just makes it another. 

1301
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:56,100
Another problem to be solved at 
some point anyway. 

1302
01:11:56,100 --> 01:11:58,600
Okay, there. 
I go digressing again. 

1303
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:00,000
All right, we're going to go 
ahead and wrap it up. 

1304
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:02,400
Thank you very much. 
Andy for being special, guest 

1305
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:05,200
co-host with me. 
This week will have Jim back on 

1306
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:06,900
in the future. 
Don't worry, he's not going 

1307
01:12:06,900 --> 01:12:09,000
anywhere. 
He's just on assignments. 

1308
01:12:09,700 --> 01:12:12,700
So thanks for listening. 
And we'll talk with everyone in 

1309
01:12:12,700 --> 01:12:14,300
the next one. 
Thanks, everyone bye. 

1310
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,100
You've been listening to 
Identity at the center. 

1311
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:23,600
We hope you've enjoyed the show,
make sure to like rate and 

1312
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:27,400
review and we'll be back soon, 
but in the meantime hit the web 

1313
01:12:27,500 --> 01:12:31,700
Site at identity at the 
center.com and find us on 

1314
01:12:31,700 --> 01:12:38,700
Twitter at, idac podcast. 
See you next time on identity at

1315
01:12:38,700 --> 01:12:39,600
the center