1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:10,440 This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with 2 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:17,960 IAM, this is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and 3 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:23,320 Jeff Stedman. Welcome to the Identity at the 4 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,120 Center podcast. I'm Jeff and that's Jim. 5 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:26,960 Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff, how are you? 6 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,560 Not so bad yourself. Oh, not so bad. 7 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,320 It's reading an article. So how would you like me to open 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,520 up a can of worms in the banter that we won't be able to solve 9 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,040 and could take a lot longer than normal? 10 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:41,880 Isn't that pretty much how we start every show? 11 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,720 Yeah, so Martin Coopinger released an article. 12 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:54,160 Friend of the show Martin is and the article is about Siso, 13 00:00:54,240 --> 00:01:01,280 Cheeto, CIOCDOI don't know but you know TuneIn on that Cheeto. 14 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,319 So anyway, he also put kind of a cool diagram. 15 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,440 So he talked about I am and digital identity of course. 16 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,520 So digital identity on the top, I AM on the bottom In between 17 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:17,600 would be identity security. So I'm thinking identity 18 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:22,600 security is more like the ITDR monitoring kind of thing. 19 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,080 Anyway, so the alignment of those things is digital identity 20 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,560 is the Cheeto and the responsibility areas where 21 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,360 enabling modern customer journeys and decentralizing 22 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,000 identity. The Seeso had cybersecurity and 23 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:43,600 therefore improving security. So I am ad libbing the ITDR 24 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,360 piece, but kind of like modernizing, hardening identity 25 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:54,520 identity systems and then the head of IAM reporting to the 26 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,680 Seeso would have modern authentication and modernizing 27 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,960 IAM. So here was my beef on this, 28 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,240 right, because it's kind of like modern authentication, 29 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:10,160 modernizing IAM was almost like very almost tactical identity 30 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:14,560 security with the Seaso. I'm not even sure I'd buy in on 31 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,760 that. I do think ITDR was like is it 32 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:25,040 identity or is it your sock and kind of overseeing you know 33 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,600 threats and potential breaches etcetera. 34 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,080 But then with this Cheetah role it was like enabling modern 35 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,680 customer journeys and decentralized identity. 36 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,640 Now, I could definitely see the organizations where 37 00:02:36,640 --> 00:02:40,440 decentralized identity is the thing unto itself, which is not 38 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,360 I am for your organization, managing, provisioning, 39 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,240 managing, single sign on. Like they couldn't be more 40 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:48,480 different. When you talk about somebody 41 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:53,200 like a MasterCard enabling decentralized identity, I mean 42 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:58,160 that's a strategy on how to enable their business for the 43 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,320 next generation. But then when you go to 44 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:05,320 something like enabling modern customer journeys, I don't know, 45 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,360 I think that could easily fall within the head of IM. 46 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,720 But really it's kind of like a marketing function or whoever's 47 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:18,040 responsible for that customer facing system. 48 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:22,400 I mean that's the business side. The IM team seems to be the 49 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,760 technical side enabling that. The technologies are often quite 50 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,640 the same with IM system. So that was my. 51 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,360 Anyway, I think it's great that Martin threw this out there 52 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,280 because, you know, here's what this is all about. 53 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,720 It's like throwing ideas out there so that people can talk 54 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,040 about them and criticize them. And you got to have like a 55 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:41,880 little bit of a tough skin to do that. 56 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,560 And I think that Martin's got that and he doesn't care if, 57 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,400 like, people disagree. He welcomes it. 58 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,520 So what do you think? Well, you just talked for, let's 59 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,120 see, 3 minutes straight and you threw out a whole bunch of stuff 60 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,360 out of only which I remember a couple things it seems to me. 61 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,200 Read me the description again of the Chief Identity Officer, the 62 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,600 Cheeto. So I wasn't going to go all the 63 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,520 way into the description 'cause I was down on, I'm looking more 64 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,920 at the diagram. So it was like within their 65 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,920 blurring lines of responsibility that the cheetah would have 66 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,200 enabling modern customer journeys, OK, and decentralized 67 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:19,240 identity. OK. 68 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,320 So that definitely strikes me as it's consumer focused, right? 69 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,000 There's already a line being driven between enterprise 70 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,960 identity and access management and consumer identity and access 71 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:30,720 management. That's how I see that 72 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,160 definition. When you talk about consumer 73 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,560 journeys now unless it's specifically said the consumer 74 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,520 is any consumer of those journeys, which yes, of course, 75 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,160 right, employees are people too. And I hate to say it, but 76 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,080 sometimes contractors are people too as well. 77 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,520 But I don't, you know, I I'm not looking at what you're looking 78 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,360 at. I, I, I I don't know how to 79 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,000 respond to it because they think there's so much context that 80 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,320 gets lost without having Martin on here to explain it. 81 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:01,640 Maybe. Maybe we'll reach out to Martin 82 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:03,560 and get him on for a show and talk through this. 83 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,880 He's usually willing to do that. We've got a guest today who I 84 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,360 I'm, I don't think we're going to be able to get through our 85 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,560 topic without allowing him to feed on on this. 86 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:18,440 So we will ask him the question, but let's wait until he's 87 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,880 introduced and everything because we have a couple things 88 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,840 to go through before we we introduce him. 89 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,600 Yeah, I mean, there were some emphatic head shakes, nods, 90 00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:31,600 shakes, left, right, up, down. You name it, it was there. 91 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,680 But let's talk about Identiverse first, because really, Hey, 92 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:35,840 that's what we're gonna talk about today. 93 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:37,080 Identiverse. We've got Andy Waite in the 94 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:38,920 wings, but we wanna get our plug out there. 95 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:41,520 People use our our discount code. 96 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,720 For those who aren't aware Identiverse 2024 is coming up. 97 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,160 It is May 28th through the 31st. It's gonna be at the Aria again, 98 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,280 the resort and Casino in Las Vegas, which is a very cool 99 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:52,640 location. Definitely support any 100 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,160 conference that's gonna be in Las Vegas. 101 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,520 We've got a discount code for all of our wonderful listeners 102 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,880 out there around the world. If you use the code IDV 2 four 103 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:07,480 dash IDAC 25 just rolls right off the tongue, you get 25% off 104 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,240 of your registration and that does stack with any earlier bird 105 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,440 discounts. So if you want to get the 106 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,400 maximum savings right there, the sooner you register the better. 107 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:16,840 We'll have link in our show notes. 108 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:19,600 You can go to idoniverse.com and find more information there. 109 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,120 But in our show notes, we'll have a link and the conference 110 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,160 code again there so that people can take advantage of that and 111 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,120 hopefully enjoy the conference. I know Jim and I, you're going 112 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,760 to be there. We've got things planned and 113 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:33,560 let's see anything else before we get to Andy. 114 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:38,320 My jacket arrived for the identity show, so I'll be easy 115 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,640 to spot. No matter where I am on the show 116 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:42,760 floor, people will be able to find me. 117 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,360 I'm going to not announce what it's going to look like yet, 118 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,840 though. Does they have an identity at 119 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:51,120 the center logo on it? Definitely not. 120 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,200 OK, so that's idea for a next jacket in the future. 121 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:56,520 It's like like a fighter jacket, right? 122 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,440 When you come out of it, you know, come out to the ring, you 123 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,440 know the the boxers and and stuff like that. 124 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:01,840 They have like a jacket. A robe? 125 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,160 Yeah. Oh yeah, that's a good idea. 126 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,840 OK, well, let's get to Identiverse 2024. 127 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,120 Very excited to have Andy Hindel back with us. 128 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,640 He's the conference chair for Identiverse, friend of the 129 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,200 program. Welcome back, Andy. 130 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,240 I am utterly delighted to be here, although rather like you, 131 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,400 I've now got a list of about 27 things that I want to say and 132 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,520 get to. And I'm like, you know, starting 133 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,160 with a robe. I think. 134 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,000 I think robes are the way forward. 135 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,320 I'm also curious about the discount code. 136 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:33,040 I'm thinking forward to next year and I'm thinking do I have 137 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:37,320 to go to marketing and see if we can create a 26% code? 138 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,720 Because it's 2425 this year, right? 139 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:45,000 So does next year have to be IDV 25, Dash IDAK 26? 140 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:50,320 I'm like, I don't know. 263040 Hey, at some point you're going 141 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,440 to ride a runway here. So you probably want to think 142 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,800 about scaling. You know that to some degree. 143 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,840 We're very look we we've we've partnered with Idaverse in the 144 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,880 past and it's always been a great experience for us and 145 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:02,400 we're happy that we're able to kind of extend that out for our 146 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,520 listeners and hopefully people take advantage of it, right. 147 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:06,280 And there's lots of discount codes out there, but it's a 148 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,640 great way to kind of support us on the podcast. 149 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,960 Andy, you were shaking your head left, right, up and down when 150 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,160 Jim was talking about the the things that that Martin 151 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,920 Cooperner had put out there around Chief Identity and CISO 152 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:20,560 and the role of identity security. 153 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,480 What do you want to start with, 'cause we're going to talk about 154 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,960 identivers, but I want you to get it off your chest and just 155 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,680 let's get let's get into it. That's very kind of you. 156 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,360 So like it's it's really interesting because we actually 157 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:37,240 had pretty much exactly this conversation a year ago Adelaide 158 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:38,760 universe on the Mainstage, right. 159 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:44,800 So we had Ian Glazer and Doctor Heather Hinton and a couple of 160 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,520 other folks join us up on the Mainstage to talk about is there 161 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,600 a role for a Chief Identity Officer and if so, what does it 162 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,000 look like and are we ready for it. 163 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,200 So I'm delighted that that conversation is happening on a 164 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,920 broader scale and I'm equally delighted that Martin is, is, 165 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:02,800 you know, putting his thoughts forward. 166 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,320 And there's a lot that I agree with, right. 167 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:11,040 I think the thing I was shaking my head about most was the 168 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,840 identity security thing in the middle. 169 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:20,480 So I think we tend to think of this more often than not as how 170 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:26,080 do I use identity constructs to protect, to provide 171 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,280 cybersecurity, right. And absolutely that's important. 172 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:34,080 I think you know that that's where things like identity 173 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:35,520 threat, textual response come in. 174 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:37,800 Ian's talked about this at some length too. 175 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:42,440 I think there's the other side of this, which is how do we 176 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,560 protect our identity systems and our identity data. 177 00:09:46,560 --> 00:09:49,480 And some of that is by using these identity constructs, but 178 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,200 some of it is not. And so I think there's a missing 179 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,320 piece in the middle there which is the, the flip side of that of 180 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,680 that you know, discussion. The other thing is I think it's 181 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:04,800 worth bearing in mind that from so outside of North America, you 182 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:10,720 look at what's happening in Europe politically in terms of 183 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:16,160 the advent of digital wallets and citizen level digital 184 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:17,400 identity and those kinds of things. 185 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,120 That changes a little bit or at least it influences the way that 186 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:22,840 that you talk about these things that you have these 187 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,040 conversations, right. The reality is that I think 188 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:29,760 consumer level use of digital identity is probably going to be 189 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:34,560 a little bit ahead in in Europe than it might be in other parts 190 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:38,680 of the world with a possible exception of Australia And the 191 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:40,360 Nordics have been there for some time, right? 192 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,000 Not necessarily with decentralized wallets and all 193 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,640 the rest of it, but they've had citizen level, you know, with 194 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:50,400 high, high levels of engagement of of you know kind of digital 195 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,400 identity constructs for a long time. 196 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:58,960 So what's interesting is again we tend to think of this from a 197 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,440 consumer perspective, but actually the workforce use cases 198 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:07,520 and especially in large you know, global enterprises that 199 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,280 have transient or high percentage contractor 200 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,720 workforces, there are some really, really oh and in the 201 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,000 regulated industries, right. There are some really 202 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,880 interesting use cases around things like proving right to 203 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,120 work, proving you know, certain professional qualifications 204 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,480 within the regulated industries, demonstrating that you have, you 205 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,600 know, the right kind of compliance that you've done the 206 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,360 right, you know all of those things, those are all workforce 207 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:40,360 use cases and they are equally important, just maybe not as 208 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,360 exciting as some of the consumer oriented use cases, but what my 209 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,880 guess is we're going to get to the workforce stuff first versus 210 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,760 the consumer stuff. So here's my problem with with 211 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,200 this and I feel a little bit like George Casino's Danza. 212 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:55,960 I got a lot of problems with you people. 213 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,160 So here's the first one is I feel like we are limiting the 214 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,400 role of a chief I, you know, digital identity officer 215 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,400 artificially to just this is a consumer facing thing only. 216 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,360 And I don't know if that's the intent or maybe that's just kind 217 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:11,880 of what I'm what I'm thinking or reading through this. 218 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:13,640 I have not read through through Martin's article. 219 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,800 And I was only going off of, you know, 3 minutes of Jim saying it 220 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,840 to me while I'm trying to pay attention. 221 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:24,000 But I don't, I don't necessarily agree that that's a limit that 222 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,160 should be in place at least artificially. 223 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,760 Maybe that's the right, you know the right way to split it out 224 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,480 for an organization that yes, they have a huge B to C 225 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,880 component, What if they have a big B to B component, partners, 226 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,280 dealers, agents, right, things like that. 227 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,400 I could certainly see an identity officer for that. 228 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,680 I think you would have to be relatively massive as an 229 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:46,600 organization if there was a Chief Identity Officer for an 230 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,120 enterprise, meaning you know your traditional sort of we have 231 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,600 these employees and we have a handful of contractors or 232 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:53,840 consultants and things like that. 233 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,760 But you could certainly make a case if you're you know mature 234 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,240 enough along that scale where yeah, we do want to have a 235 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,920 better experience for our identity, you know internally 236 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,320 for our stuff. But that's just kind of like my 237 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,560 gut reaction to it. I mean again you know we're 238 00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:10,080 we're kind of just shooting at the hip here without having gone 239 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,360 into much detail with it. But I I'm not, I'm a fan of the 240 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:14,840 role. I think anything that gives 241 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:20,160 identity a a better seat at the table or even a seat at the 242 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,640 table is a great thing. Representation is awesome. 243 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:27,760 What I don't like to see are limits on where and what that 244 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,560 person is responsible for from an identity perspective, because 245 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:34,560 I don't think we've even agreed as a industry, what the heck 246 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:36,680 does digital identity mean versus identity and access 247 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:38,440 management, right. We did that episode a long time 248 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,320 ago. We got, we got 10 different 249 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,000 answers then we've asked a few times since then. 250 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,480 We've gotten different answers every time we ask it. 251 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,880 And I think context matters in this case. 252 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,360 Jim, you started this hullabaloo. 253 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:51,720 What are your thoughts, having heard Andy and I talk now? 254 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,400 I think Martin's got it right that the Cheeto would focus more 255 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,080 on emerging technology that's outward facing. 256 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:08,280 So I I think I don't think it's all thing customers, the Cheeto, 257 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:13,560 all things internal as the SISO or the head of IEMI think that's 258 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,040 too simplistic. I, you know, enabling customer 259 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:22,640 journeys doesn't seem to me like it's like groundbreaking stuff. 260 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,640 I do think where a Cheeto makes sense is like hey we see 261 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,480 identity as something that's going to enable our business. 262 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,800 I use the example MasterCard, yes, that's where you need 263 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,640 somebody who and do I think that person should be responsible for 264 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:43,120 Active Directory Single sign on Like no, that's just a a task 265 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,720 that they would need to do like they're they've got to stay 266 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,440 focused on growing their business using digital identity. 267 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,360 So I guess that's that's where I I think he's got it right. 268 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,080 But where I think he's got it wrong is like enabling customer 269 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,840 journeys seems almost too tactical as well and and it's 270 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,800 enabling tells me it's like oh somebody kind of comes up with 271 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:04,560 the new customer journey. Now I've got to make the 272 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,240 software do that. That seems very tactical. 273 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,000 All right. I I I think we're on the same 274 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,360 page, at least close enough. Andy, what do you think are are 275 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:14,520 are we all talking the same thing? 276 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:15,920 We. We shockingly, we have 277 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,360 consensus, yes. Who could have predicted it? 278 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,640 No, I think, I, I think you're on to something actually there 279 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:23,280 Jim. And I, I was thinking in the 280 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,840 background that I think this is about to some extent getting 281 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:32,600 identity out of the role that very traditionally it's been in, 282 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,440 which is somewhat bracketed inside of the security 283 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,560 organization, right. And try as you might if that's 284 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,000 where you report up to, if that's where that function 285 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,480 reports up to, by definition it's focuses on you know, 286 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,160 reactive security, right, protecting the business as 287 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,880 opposed to proactively enabling the business, right. 288 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,000 And I think that that change needs to happen not necessarily 289 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,160 within the industry, but actually outside it. 290 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,520 And so for me a role like a Chief Identity Officer or at the 291 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,920 very least saying look, you know our, our Chief Digital Officer, 292 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,080 we're going to make, we're going to make you know, security 293 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,640 report, sorry, we're going to make IM report directly over 294 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,080 there with a dotted line into security, right. 295 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,440 That would even that sort of shift would help because it then 296 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,640 enables us as an industry to go out and talk about all of the 297 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,560 wonderful customer journey things and enablement things and 298 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,120 protection things and yeah, all of that that we already know we 299 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,160 can do right. It's just we don't necessarily 300 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,480 get the opportunity to to help the business understand that. 301 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,280 You know, I think this would have been a great identiver 302 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,160 session. It's a good thing we're 303 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,520 recording this so people can listen to, you know, us 304 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,120 pontificate about this. And Jim was kind enough to drop 305 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:43,880 the link to me just now. So now I'm looking at the 306 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:45,680 article. When I see kind of where, where 307 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,840 where it's going, I'll put the link in our show notes so people 308 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:50,360 can check it out. It was a, it's a LinkedIn 309 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,720 article that Martin Cooper had put out on March 12th. 310 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,760 Who should be in charge of IAM and what's the role of the C? 311 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,000 So I'm looking forward to getting into a little more depth 312 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,920 after this, but I don't want to spend the entire thing, you 313 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,240 know, talking about this role. But I think this is probably a 314 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,440 good teaser because they, these are the sort of conversations 315 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,440 that actually happen at a conference. 316 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,640 They happen and you know, at Identiverse, when you have a lot 317 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,800 of people show up that have opinions and there's a lot of 318 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,720 networking and just general identity shenanigans kind of 319 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,359 going around. Andy, you know, I guess you're 320 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,800 the conference chair. How are things going? 321 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,160 How's the planning for Identiverse coming along? 322 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,680 And then I guess give us the, you know, what's the, what's the 323 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,000 sales tactic here? Why is Identiverse better or 324 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,400 different than other identity conferences that are out there? 325 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,400 Yes, thanks for that. This is why we have a marketing 326 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,920 team who are wonderful and can actually answer that question 327 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:46,160 much better than I can. But yeah, look, so it's the show 328 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,360 is now big, right. I mean last year we were nudging 329 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:52,600 up towards you know two and a half 3000 people will be above 330 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,840 that. This year it's it's large and so 331 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,360 that means that the planning effort is significant. 332 00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:02,760 So there's a degree to which we're kind of in in the last 333 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,920 mile of marathon at this point, it's coming together really 334 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,360 well. I'm incredibly excited about the 335 00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:10,080 agenda. I say this every year. 336 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,840 Frankly, I'm always incredibly excited about the agenda. 337 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:17,920 It's always a huge privilege to be able to sit and look at all 338 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,880 of the proposals that people put into the call for presentations 339 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,160 and to then help you know those presenters through the process 340 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,560 of getting their material ready together with, you know, the, 341 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:29,440 the content committee that that we have. 342 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:31,560 But the agenda's come together really well. 343 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,200 It's up on the website, almost all of it is there. 344 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:35,840 There's a few things that will change. 345 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,280 So obviously people need to be alert to that. 346 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,840 We've got some, you know, interesting keynotes and again 347 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,840 more details will emerge. So keep your eyes out on the on 348 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,480 the the agenda on the website as that comes together. 349 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,800 Lots of fun things happening around the edges, lots of 350 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,440 wonderful sponsors and and you know vendors on the show floor 351 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,120 and you know all of all of those identiverse things You asked the 352 00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:01,960 question right at the end about you know what what makes 353 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,160 identiverse different. And I think there's there's a 354 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,320 couple of things. One is we try and have for for 355 00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:13,280 for years we've focused on making sure that we have a high 356 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:18,440 quality content rich experience. I talked about the call for 357 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,200 presentations a minute ago. For people that don't know, 358 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,000 about 80% of our agenda is constructed through the call for 359 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,560 presentations, right. So almost everything in the 360 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,680 agenda comes through that route. I always stress to people that 361 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,480 we're not an academic conference, right. 362 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,120 It's not like we're doing formal peer review of these things, but 363 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,680 we do have a reasonably rigorous process with the content 364 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,680 committee. We will review those proposals 365 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,240 in pretty serious debt. We then try and construct an 366 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:50,960 agenda that is, you know, appropriately balanced and you 367 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,640 know the the number of of different balances that that 368 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,760 we're trying to get are there's a lot of them, right. 369 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,840 So again, with the scale that we're at, we recognize that 370 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,680 we're going to have people who've been coming to the show 371 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,000 for years, who've been in identity for years, who want to 372 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,280 sit around and and pontificate and kind of have the hullabaloo 373 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,400 discussion as you described it a minute ago. 374 00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:16,480 But we've also got and and heartily welcome people who are 375 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,920 brand new, just started in identity this year. 376 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,120 Maybe they've been enrolled for three, 4-5 years. 377 00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:23,600 They're they're starting to get their feet. 378 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:29,040 They're starting to learn not just the the technical bits of 379 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,320 how to do the job, but all the other stuff that goes along with 380 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,680 with being a professional in any industry. 381 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,800 And Identiverse is a really good place to do that. 382 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,920 We try quite hard with the agenda to make it so that it's 383 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,680 balanced in that sense as well as material that's appropriate 384 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,680 for for folks to sit and pontificate. 385 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,760 And there's material that's appropriate for people to sit 386 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,680 and go, OK, there's a new thing that I've learned and I can move 387 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,880 on and and that was, you know, that was valuable. 388 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,520 I think though around the edges of that and you guys are, you 389 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,200 know, be better judged than me, I'm, I'm in this And so I'm, I'm 390 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,560 invariably going to be or inevitably going to be biased. 391 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,680 But I think it's an incredibly welcoming nurturing environment. 392 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,040 Right. Professionals come, even folks 393 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,520 who've never been before, who've who've, you know been in their, 394 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,760 in their jobs for a couple of years, they come. 395 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:22,640 They find that their peers are more than happy to have 396 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,840 conversations. And by peers, I mean folks who 397 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,320 work in the industry just like they do, right? 398 00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:32,040 It can be quite daunting. I think you go and sit in a 399 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,520 presentation, somebody who's been working on the skim 400 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,920 protocol for the last, you know, 27 years. 401 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,240 Skim is not that old. I apologize to the people who've 402 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,440 been working on Skim. Some of them may look that old, 403 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,280 but you know that's just the nature of the protocol. 404 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,560 You know, they've been working on this thing for years and 405 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,680 years and years and and they know everything and it's like 406 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,480 can I can I go and ask them a question? 407 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,600 Like yes is the answer to that and Identiverse is very 408 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,480 supportive of that. We actually have. 409 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,640 We started this last year and we'll do it again this year. 410 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,960 We've got a a kind of mutual identiverse session right up 411 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,120 front on the the first day, the Tuesday just before all the main 412 00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:10,120 content starts. We we did it experimentally last 413 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:13,040 year thinking we might get about 50 people and we had 200 and 414 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,560 they were out in the corridors and it was extremely useful and 415 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,280 valuable. But highly recommend if if folks 416 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,280 are new to the show, to go to that and it'll give you a real 417 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,120 sense of, you know, here's how I get engaged, here's how I get 418 00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:25,400 what I need to get out of the week. 419 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,400 So. I'm going to definitely echo the 420 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,200 welcoming and nurturing. And I mean that's just the 421 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,320 industry at large. I think for us, I feel like this 422 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,040 is an area where you know, for all of our flaws and faults of 423 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,920 not being able to, you know, come up with correct terminology 424 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,960 or even common terminology or definitions. 425 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,040 I have never met anybody in that industry that has been a jerk. 426 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,360 I'm sure they exist, right? But I, you know, you walk up to 427 00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:50,960 people, introduce and have conversations, stuff like that. 428 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,160 It is definitely a very welcoming environment. 429 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,480 If you're new to the space, you know, walk up to somebody, say 430 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,120 hello if you've been in the space. 431 00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:00,200 Here's a challenge for everybody who's been coming to these 432 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,640 conference for a while. Go out and find somebody who 433 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,320 hasn't been there before, You know, make a make a new friend, 434 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:07,440 you know, take someone under your wing, stuff like that. 435 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,120 If people come up to me at the conference, I'm happy to walk 436 00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:14,040 them around and give them my thoughts on things, answer 437 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,320 questions, introduce them to other people, stuff like that. 438 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,360 But I think that's how we grow as an industry is making those 439 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:22,800 relationships and Identiverse is definitely one of the best 440 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,280 places to do that. You've got people of like mind, 441 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,920 you know, similar, you know, work that we're all kind of 442 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,200 doing, whether we've been doing it for 20 years or 20 minutes. 443 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,120 You know, get out there and and and talk with people and 444 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:36,000 introduce yourself. And if you're a veteran, get out 445 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,640 there, talk with new people, 'cause that's the one thing I 446 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,520 think is I see a lot of people who have been going to these 447 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,560 things for a while and they kind of cluster together as well, 448 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:44,520 which is great, right? You want to have those 449 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,600 relationships, but you know, let's let's let's let's open 450 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,880 arms and and and get a hug to some of the new people out 451 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,520 there. Yeah, definitely pay it forward. 452 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,400 You know, I could imagine a scenario, Andy, where someone 453 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,880 says we have this great digital identity conference, we're going 454 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,920 to cover all the areas of IEM. But I I guess my question to you 455 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,000 is, is this a we we understand the oxymoron and what I said 456 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,960 right, Is this is Identiverse a digital identity conference or 457 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,280 is it an IM conference? I think this is one of those 458 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,000 questions that is going to run and run and run. 459 00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:24,360 So if you go back to the very beginning, the very, very 460 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:26,880 beginning of when Identiverse first started out and it had a 461 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,040 different name at the time and that's 15 years ago. 462 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,480 It will be 15 years this year. It's actually our 15th birthday. 463 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:38,400 We're very excited about that. It was very focused on how do we 464 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,680 do identity in the cloud, right. That was the question that that 465 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,440 the conference set out to answer. 466 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:50,400 The reality is that the industry has and continues to evolve 467 00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:55,560 rapidly and dramatically. And I I mean in all seriousness, 468 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,240 I think the question of of you know what is IM, what is digital 469 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,880 identity is going to be a topic for the next few years because 470 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,320 there is a lot of change happening. 471 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,640 So I have my perspective somewhat inevitably the 472 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,000 conference reflects some of that perspective, but equally you 473 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,200 know the content committee and the Advisory Board come at this 474 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,080 slightly differently. So you know my perspective will 475 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:21,720 be will be nuanced I guess softened perhaps by by their 476 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:27,600 input. My view is that digital identity 477 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:32,120 is an overarching term that incorporates all of the 478 00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:36,000 different aspects of identity. Whether that is the highly 479 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:41,120 technical protocol deployment level question about you know 480 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:46,680 how do I get these identity bits from A to B right the way 481 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:53,680 through to you know, all of the proofing, vetting, attribute, 482 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,120 assertion, digital wallet, decentralized stuff right the 483 00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:04,120 way through to the edges of things like privacy and elements 484 00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:06,280 of security. So we'll take cybersecurity as 485 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,960 an example, right. And obviously the, the promoters 486 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,280 of Identiverse Cyber Risk Alliance have lots of other 487 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:12,960 cybersecurity focused initiatives. 488 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,840 And you look at cybersecurity and there are lots and lots and 489 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,720 lots of things in that realm that have nothing really to do 490 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,160 with identity, right. It's the bits that do that are 491 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,200 relevant to us. And the same is, is true of 492 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,160 privacy, right. So, yeah, it presents an 493 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,520 interesting challenge for us from a conference standpoint 494 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,120 because it's now a very, very broad set of things. 495 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,440 And so that's why you're starting to see some events 496 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,120 emerge that maybe sit a little earlier in the in the content 497 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:47,200 life cycle that are focused in depth on particular areas. 498 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:52,400 But it's really important, I think, for us to incorporate as 499 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,760 much of that as we can, partly because I think that we're going 500 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,640 to see some convergence and some impact from 1 area to another. 501 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,680 So give you an example, we talked a little bit earlier on 502 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,520 about the role that things like wallets may start to play from a 503 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,160 consumer standpoint and potentially from a workforce 504 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,000 standpoint. If we are not today starting as 505 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,640 an industry as as a, you know, traditional IAM industry, if you 506 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,280 will, to talk about OK, what do wallets look like? 507 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,480 What does decentralized look like? 508 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,840 You know, in reality, in a real deployment, how is that gonna 509 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,720 start to impact on the way that I think about authorization or 510 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,760 authentication or they use a life cycle, right, Because there 511 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,600 is absolutely going to be an impact. 512 00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:43,560 One of the things that we're going to talk about to some 513 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,680 degree this year, we talked about a lot of things this year 514 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,840 in the conference. But you know we're giving some 515 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,120 some space in the agenda to things like the continuous 516 00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:55,480 access evaluation protocol right Kate or CAEP depending on how 517 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,440 you want to pronounce it and risk And you know that whole 518 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,680 shared signals area and Full disclosure I I have you know a a 519 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,560 foam space in my heart shared signal. 520 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,000 I did some work in that area a few years ago together with 521 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,360 folks like Andrew Nash and others. 522 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,080 I can see at least in my head. I think there's a really 523 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:20,120 interesting kind of confluence of here's a bunch of of 524 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,640 selective disclosure information that I can provide from my 525 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,640 wallet. Where does that feed into the 526 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:30,080 continuous evaluation of my, my, you know, access control as I go 527 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,240 along through a particular user journey, right. 528 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,640 We aren't ready to do that yet as an industry. 529 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,600 But if you are in, I don't know, IGA for example today and you 530 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,400 think you'll likely be an IGA in three or four years time, you're 531 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:43,640 going to need to think about that. 532 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,000 And so that's why for us it's really important that we touch 533 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,760 all of those areas because I I don't know where a profession is 534 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,120 going to end up in the next four years, right, or what you guys 535 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,280 are going to be doing in four years. 536 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,640 But if you're still an identity, we it will be nice to think that 537 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,360 we're providing, you know, some of that drip feeding early 538 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,880 enough on that it will become useful later on. 539 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,840 Yeah, Andy, I wanted to talk about I I know you guys have 540 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:11,160 been start at as a conference starting to build some content 541 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,520 that will be available before the conference and you have an 542 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,600 upcoming upcoming today online seminar that by the time this 543 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:25,600 episode actually drops, it will be a recorded recorded webinar 544 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,400 that people can go visit. We'll put a link in the show 545 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:33,080 notes, but could you give us a brief overview of what's in that 546 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,640 content? I would be delighted to thank 547 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:36,040 you. Yeah. 548 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,320 So this is, this is something that we wanted to do for a long 549 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,640 time, right. Identiverse has always existed 550 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,560 as a as a point in time essentially single event once a 551 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,480 year. We've if for those of you that 552 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,800 have really deep history with event, you'll remember there was 553 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,400 one year a long time ago where we did a couple of like little 554 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,560 events at a different time of the year, but it really only 555 00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:00,120 lasted a very short time. And we recognize very clearly 556 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,320 that it's not like the industry is static for a year. 557 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:10,120 So we wanted to try and do some things that still fit with the 558 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,040 the values that ethos of Identiverse, the how we do 559 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,600 things but that we can do at other times in the year. 560 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,360 So couple of things, one is that at the end of last year in in 561 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,680 December we ran a couple of half day Identiverse branded 562 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,360 Identiverse themed events, one in New York, one in Chicago and 563 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,840 essentially as experiments right, Let's see if it's worth 564 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,120 doing these if people are interested if the sponsors are 565 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,360 interested in helping us out and and and they were I think very 566 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,360 successful. The folks that came had a good 567 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,680 time, they were productive. We talked about some stuff that 568 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,200 built on what we discussed at Ideniverse you know prime as it 569 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,440 were earlier in the year. The other thing that we've 570 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,520 started and so I expect we'll we'll do those hopefully later 571 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,360 this year. Again, what we've also started 572 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,680 to do are some webinars. We did one, I want to say a 573 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,000 week, maybe two weeks ago, specifically on the topic of 574 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,720 authorisation with a tie in to the conference and to the 575 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:10,360 authors and working group which which had kind of started at at 576 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,960 the Identities Conference or at least started to come together 577 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,480 at the conference. Tomorrow we're doing one, sorry. 578 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,760 Tomorrow as we record this, I should say we're doing one which 579 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,760 essentially is a number of the members of the content committee 580 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,440 and we're going to be talking about some of the trends that we 581 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,120 think we saw as we were going through the call for 582 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,640 presentations. So one of the joys of being at 583 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,720 the scale that we're at now is we get enough volume of 584 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,800 proposals into the CFP that we can kind of look at those and 585 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,720 say, well you know, isn't it interesting that out of the, you 586 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,440 know, 500 proposals that we got my making that number up out of 587 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:55,520 thin air, but out of the 500 proposals that we got, 470 of 588 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,800 them were on wallets. Now that's clearly not an 589 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,360 accurate description, but you get my point right. 590 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,920 We can start to draw some trends out of this stuff. 591 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,120 And so we're going to have a a conversation with a a couple of 592 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:08,960 members from the content committee, three or four members 593 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,320 of the conflict committee tomorrow just to talk about what 594 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,160 do we think we saw which of those things might we touch on 595 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,720 late universe, which are we not going to touch on late universe? 596 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,680 Why? You know that that claimed of a 597 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,760 discussion and once it's gone out, yeah, the the recording 598 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,760 will be available up on the early anniversary website and we 599 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,800 hope to do some more of those through the course of the year. 600 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,920 Again, they're all experimental where we're working out you know 601 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:37,320 what works and what doesn't for for for folks, but we hope that 602 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,680 they're useful. If if anyone does happen to go 603 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,240 and look at them and they want to send feedback, we're 604 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,880 obviously open to that and we'll see how they go. 605 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,760 So Andy, I'm going to ask you a two-part question. 606 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,760 Take these questions in whichever order you want. 607 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,400 So I hear, you know obviously we're identity nerves, right. 608 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,920 So we're talking a lot about wallets ID verification, mobile 609 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,600 IDs, age verification, all this like cutting edge stuff that 610 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,000 digital identities, not really traditional IEM, super 611 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,880 fascinating stuff to us, not to everybody. 612 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:16,080 Some people are IEM folks. So one, I do want to hear about 613 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,400 those topics. In other words, I'd like you to 614 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,480 kind of like give some more on that on those things I just 615 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,600 touched on. But I also want to know if 616 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:30,240 somebody's coming who does provisioning or does manage, you 617 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,880 know, privilege access management or something like 618 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:37,600 that, What what do they get out of the conference and like is 619 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,760 this still the right conference for them? 620 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,200 And if you were them, how would you approach, you know, this 621 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,800 traditional piece as well as, hey, there's this new stuff 622 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,760 going on, should they dip their toe in some of that stuff? 623 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,280 Yeah, That's a great question. So I think, I mean I feel really 624 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,440 bad because I'm, I'm about to say what of course it's the 625 00:33:58,440 --> 00:33:59,960 right conference. I hope it's the right 626 00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:01,800 conference, right. I hope it's still the right 627 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,680 place for that. We try very hard to make it 628 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,120 still the right place for those things. 629 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,320 It's meant to be the right place for those things. 630 00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:13,440 And again, if we're getting that wrong, then let us know and 631 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,360 we'll take that into consideration as we start to 632 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:20,000 plan the 2025 event. It's also fair to say that for a 633 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,840 lot of these things, they are, I guess that things come in 634 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,840 cycles, right? So as an example, if you go back 635 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:33,159 and look at the agenda, let's say five or six years ago, we 636 00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:37,159 spent quite a lot of time that particular year talking about 637 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,480 the early technical stages of decentralized identity, right? 638 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,280 This is when it was Stillwell. Should we put identity on a 639 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,639 blockchain or not, right. Where do we keep our those kinds 640 00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:50,000 of conversations? And then we frankly didn't talk 641 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,040 about it for a while. Shared signals is the same 642 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,000 thing, right? We talked about it a lot for a 643 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,679 couple of years and then it kind of went away for a bit whilst 644 00:34:56,679 --> 00:34:58,080 everybody sat down and worked out. 645 00:34:58,080 --> 00:34:59,600 OK, what does this look like in reality? 646 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,000 And sometimes those things go away and never come back because 647 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,400 they don't quite see the light of day. 648 00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:08,840 But some of them do. The same is true for some of the 649 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,920 technologies, architectures, protocols that have been around 650 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,120 longer. It's just that the way that that 651 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,440 cycle looks is different. So I'll use SAML as an example 652 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,760 because it's one that I'm probably more familiar with than 653 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,960 some of the others. Again, if you go back in time 654 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,840 far enough, we spent a lot of time talking about like how does 655 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,960 the SAML protocol work, does it work the right way? 656 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,720 Do we need to change the way it works? 657 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:36,440 Right. Then it went away for a while 658 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,360 because everybody was busy deploying it. 659 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,840 Then we had a few years where people would come and talk 660 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,240 about, hey, so I deployed it and this is what I ran into. 661 00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:45,680 And this is how I made it better. 662 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,440 And these are the products that I tried and this is how I made 663 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,840 them talk to each other. And, you know, here are some 664 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,760 interesting edge cases that we should figure out. 665 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,240 And then it went quiet for a while. 666 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,640 And then Open ID Connect came along and we had a couple of 667 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:02,120 years of, well, OK, so I now have this big Federated 668 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,800 deployment that I've built with SAML. 669 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,720 And you want me to, you know, switch over and use Open ID And 670 00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:09,120 how am I going to use Open ID Connect and how am I going to 671 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,840 get there at you, Right. This is all, what's the phrase 672 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,040 that gets used? Meat and potatoes. 673 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:22,040 Yes, this is straightforward. How do I do my job and how do I 674 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,360 do it better kind of stuff. Privileged access management is 675 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,560 exactly the same, right? There are years when not much 676 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,200 changes and then suddenly there'll be something that comes 677 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,040 up where it's like, oh, we have to think about this a little bit 678 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,240 differently, right? And we try our best to reflect 679 00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:37,240 that. It's one of the joys of running 680 00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:41,040 the CFP is that some of that naturally surfaces, right. 681 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,880 We suddenly get a slew of proposals about, you know, ITDR 682 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,160 is a really good example, right, slew of proposals about that and 683 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,840 it's like, OK, we we should probably make sure we cover that 684 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:56,200 one, right. There's a fair amount of real 685 00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:01,640 world deployment talk, right. So folks that have you know from 686 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,360 large enterprises deployed particular protocols, 687 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:10,360 technologies, architectures, products will come and describe 688 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,720 what they did, talk about what they did and that sharing of 689 00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:15,720 best practice is incredibly valuable. 690 00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:18,000 I think if you're if you're you know kind of on the on the 691 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:23,040 Pointy deployment end of things, we also have quite a lot of 692 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,880 folks coming and talking about protocols. 693 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,360 So again depends what's being worked on in any given year. 694 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,240 But as an example I mentioned Cape and Risk earlier on, 695 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:36,040 there's a fair amount going on there, probably less in the SAML 696 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,560 space right now. Quite a lot going on in the 697 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,520 authorization area which you probably talked about Parski is 698 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,880 1 and and the whole sort of Fido authentication construct that's 699 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,880 evolved quite rapidly where you know even as as recently as last 700 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,840 year we were still talking about the evolution of the protocol 701 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,120 and you know this year it's very much about hey I deployed 702 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:58,800 passkey this is what it looked like, right. 703 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,840 So yeah, I hopefully that that kind of answers the the question 704 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,440 Jim, did I, did I miss anything in amongst all of that? 705 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:11,160 No, I don't think I I really like the answer because we gave 706 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,160 a lot of insight in terms of how the content builds in. 707 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,320 I do think if you go there and look, everybody's going to 708 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,920 approach these conferences, every conference differently. 709 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,520 You know, you might need to go there and say I want to look at 710 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,560 all the privilege access management vendors because my 711 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,000 company is going to buy a privilege access management 712 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,400 solution and I've got to see what's out there. 713 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,480 That's fine. Spend 80% of your time doing 714 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,960 that. But my only recommendation is a 715 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,320 personal gymnasium. Spend the other 20% 716 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,080 investigating some of these other areas. 717 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:48,440 Open your mind a little bit you. I'm sure he's been hearing about 718 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,560 decentralized identity and digital wallets and his age of 719 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,280 just pop into some of the sessions and he might learn 720 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,040 something new. But you know, I wanted to pass 721 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,280 this to Jeff to get his input. I mean, you know between Jeff 722 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,040 and I, we've probably hit 100 identity conferences in our 723 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,680 lifetime. We I'm sure you've got an 724 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,120 opinion. Yeah, I mean the problem I 725 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,320 always have with the conferences is that there's too many good 726 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:14,720 sessions going on at the same time. 727 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,320 And that's that's honestly the biggest hurdle for me is like, 728 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,920 OK, there's like three things all taking place from 10:00 to 729 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,920 10:45 and how am I going to split my time between between 730 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,600 that and then support friends and colleagues who may be 731 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:29,880 presenting in something else, right. 732 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,880 For for their stuff. You know, I I think I'm a little 733 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,960 more spur of the moment for me. Conferences have more turned 734 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:41,960 into talking with other folks and trying to find new things 735 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,520 versus stuff that I already know about, I feel like I know about 736 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,040 because there's always something new in the space and there's 737 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:50,600 plenty of stuff that I still don't understand. 738 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,080 Getting my head around, you know, quantum and trying to 739 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,320 understand, well, where does self Sovereign come in for an 740 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:56,920 enterprise, right? Things like that. 741 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:02,520 That's what I tend to focus on is that kind of stuff is the is 742 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,120 the newer more cutting edge. But that's only because I have 743 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,640 the background already, the kind of I feel like we cover 744 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,680 everything else. And hey, you and I, Jim, we're 745 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,880 fortunate we do this podcast where we're talking about this 746 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,240 stuff. At least once a week, if not 747 00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:16,280 more. And so we're getting a little, 748 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,200 you know, more exposure. It's almost like we do our own 749 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,800 conference every week basically around a specific topic. 750 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,040 So that's typically how I kind of approach it. 751 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,720 So that's that's kind of what I'm thinking Andy. 752 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,160 I know that it's always a struggle trying to figure out 753 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,240 schedules and too many good sessions at once. 754 00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:35,520 And you know, maybe this is a a a, an opportunity to talk about 755 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,200 what if I can't come to the conference, Are there things 756 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,520 that I can do after the conference maybe that I could 757 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,160 take advantage of like videos or things like that? 758 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,160 I know historically there's been some of that stuff out there, 759 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:46,240 but what's the plan for this year? 760 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,080 I I feel like the answer should be just just spend this year 761 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:50,800 saving up so you can come to next year. 762 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:59,000 So, so yeah, I it's we've we've tried for a long time to do 763 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,880 something that would would help people. 764 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:06,200 So couple of things, one is for a long time now that pretty much 765 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:11,680 since the beginning we've recorded all of the sessions 766 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:12,960 that take place at the conference. 767 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,760 Our intention is to do that again this year likely to be 768 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,000 audio rather than video, although we will, I expect video 769 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,840 everything that's up on the mainstage from keynote 770 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,160 standpoint, but all of that will be made about all of that 771 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:29,480 material be made available after the event attendees you know 772 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,640 first. So to your point Jeff, you know 773 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,000 if you're conflicted about what to attend at least you'd be able 774 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,560 to go and pick that stuff up afterwards, but then it'll be 775 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,880 made available publicly as we have done historically, at least 776 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,360 that's the intention at this point. 777 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,320 The other thing, and this is a little bit, I bit this kind of 778 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,160 wasn't in my head until I was picking up really on something 779 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,520 that that Jim mentioned, which is because I tend to think 780 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,840 primarily about the agenda, which is where my head is at 781 00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,400 right now. But you know, Jim made the 782 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,640 really important point that we've obviously got, you know, 783 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,040 this enormous show flaw, which is incredibly valuable to 784 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,480 people. Some people just want to get a 785 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,000 sense of what was out there. Some have got very specific 786 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,720 questions for vendors that maybe they use today or they're 787 00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:15,880 considering using. And for others it's, you know, 788 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,040 exactly as as as you described, Jim. 789 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,360 It's like we've got a project in this space. 790 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,360 Let me start to get a sense of what was out there. 791 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,680 I think if you aren't able to attend the conference, one thing 792 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,880 that you might consider doing is have a look and see which 793 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,720 vendors are there and then either reach out to a colleague 794 00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:37,240 that happens to be attending and leverage them, right? 795 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,440 Hey, would you mind popping along to vendor X and asking 796 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:41,720 them these questions? Right. 797 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,440 The other thing is frankly if you're interested in a 798 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,240 particular product or solution, I would encourage you to reach 799 00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:50,920 out to that vendor directly and say hey look, I saw you around 800 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,360 anniversary, Sorry I couldn't physically be there, but I am 801 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,440 interested because you know you've immediately got a way to 802 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,520 start to have a a slightly higher level more engaged 803 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,640 conversation with that particular vendor than you would 804 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,120 otherwise. So it's worth considering as as 805 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:06,920 an approach. And the other thing I'd say is 806 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,560 keep an eye out for some of the other you know kind of regional 807 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,840 identiverse things and online identiverse things that we're 808 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,000 looking to try and put together later on in the year and into 809 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,720 next year. There may be other ways to to 810 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,200 kind of get engaged in in in what's happening beyond just, 811 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,680 you know, being at the main event in Vegas. 812 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:30,920 Evidently I would, I would be failing in my job today if I 813 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,800 didn't say, look we'd love to see everybody at Vegas in Vegas 814 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,440 but I recognize that not everybody can And so yeah, we we 815 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:39,960 do our best to try and make it accessible. 816 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,400 That the other thing I should probably say here is we've got a 817 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,880 number of professional associations that that are 818 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:54,280 involved at Ideniverse and many of them have active communities 819 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:59,000 that that exist and and operate outside of the confines of of 820 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,240 just the event. And so it may be that if you're 821 00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:04,720 a member of one of those or if you're considering you know 822 00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:06,720 becoming member of one of those that might give you another way 823 00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:09,880 to get sort of tapped into some of the conversation and the 824 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,680 learning the best practices and the the the mentoring you know 825 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,840 loosely that we've been talking about today outside of of just 826 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,400 attending the event. So I definitely echo everything 827 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,400 you just said, but I especially like last year when you started 828 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,240 to do the local events. So I was at the one in New York 829 00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:29,200 City, which I thought went really well, you were there as 830 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:30,360 well. So it was nice to say familiar 831 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:31,360 faces, right? Stuff like that. 832 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,680 But it was grateful to get local people kind of together, 'cause 833 00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,360 I know it's it's expensive, right, to go to these 834 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,080 conferences and to take tight em off and kind of do that kind of 835 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:43,240 stuff, but it it doesn't replace the full identiverse experience. 836 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,320 It's such a, it's such a good conference. 837 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,080 I mean you you guys have done such a good job with that. 838 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,240 I'm a big fan of it and going to it for several years now I we've 839 00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:54,080 so we've been talking about 47 minutes and so I want to do kind 840 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,520 of a lightning around here so we don't go on too long. 841 00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,280 I'm going to ask you point blank questions, Andy, and you give me 842 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,280 a lightning response on what you're. 843 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,520 Yeah, I think this is hilarious because getting me to do 844 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,000 anything concisely. Is like this is the challenge 845 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:08,920 this? Is going to work. 846 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,120 I don't know how this is going to work. 847 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:11,440 We'll try. We'll do our best all. 848 00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:12,600 Right. Well, I'm going to start with 849 00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,960 the hard one because last year you said that authentication is 850 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,280 done. So we congratulate ourselves 851 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,640 because we fixed authentication. Everything is hunky Dory. 852 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,280 You know we've got password list now, and there's no more issues 853 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,600 anymore with authentication. Do you still stand by that 854 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:27,680 statement? Yes. 855 00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:32,360 OK, I'll I'll give you 20 seconds to expand on your OK. 856 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,880 I'm really glad you came to get out there. 857 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,000 I won't hang out to drag. Yeah. 858 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,840 So look, I I was being a little bit facetious when I said it. 859 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:46,600 My, my point was that the, the, the opportunity that is 860 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:51,080 presented with Passkey is huge. It's come on very rapidly and 861 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:56,760 it's being deployed at scale very rapidly with demonstrable, 862 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,280 not just technical but demonstrable business success. 863 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,200 So is it done? No. 864 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,720 Is it solved? Arguably it still needs to get 865 00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:11,280 done, but arguably it's solved. The context for that comment 866 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,240 was, I think, where we now need to go spend a ton of energy 867 00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:18,440 thinking about how to solve the problem is in authorization. 868 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,680 But yes, I stand by the statement in that context. 869 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,480 OK, next question. One of my favorite ones is After 870 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,760 hours activities. I know that there's typically 871 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,800 some things planned around and it seems like you know every 872 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,120 vendor and everything. Everybody else has stuff going 873 00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,640 on which I would tell you take advantage of that kind of stuff, 874 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,360 right? I mean, those are generally some 875 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,000 fun events and if you can make yourself available to go like to 876 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,720 a nice dinner or go see a show or something like that, do it. 877 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,840 What are your thoughts on how do you approach after hours 878 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,240 activities, especially for maybe folks who haven't gone to this 879 00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:50,000 before or maybe haven't been in Vegas before? 880 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,320 What would be your words of wisdom on how they should pace 881 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:54,680 themselves? Yeah. 882 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,440 So I think pacing is exactly the right word. 883 00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:59,680 You're right. Take advantage of those 884 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,800 opportunities, but pick and choose them carefully and 885 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,840 remember that you are there for basically a week. 886 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:12,080 They're long days, they're packed days, They're incredibly 887 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,040 valuable days. But since you've gone to the 888 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:19,120 effort to attend, make the most out of those days and pace 889 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,920 yourself through the show. Frankly, even if you're not 890 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,800 going out at night, you're still going to want to pace yourself 891 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,800 through the week. And, and I would add to that, 892 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:32,520 recognize that the vast majority of people that are presenting 893 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:37,200 are you right, They don't happen to be you personally this year 894 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:41,160 maybe, but they are you. And they're putting a lot of 895 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,960 time and effort and energy into sharing their knowledge with 896 00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:48,320 everyone at the event. Give them due respect, right? 897 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,160 If somebody's presenting at 8:30 in the morning, show up. 898 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,960 Pay attention. Listen, please. 899 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,800 Yeah, I think was it last year there was like the was it like a 900 00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,280 Sammy Davis tribute, Frank Sinatra type thing? 901 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:01,320 That kind of started off the day? 902 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:02,920 It was. It was great. 903 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:04,280 I liked it. I thought it was really good. 904 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:08,240 But it was like, all right, hey, we are getting started, yeah. 905 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,680 So, yeah, I mean and and slightly more usefully perhaps, 906 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,000 you know there's there's a number of of sort of you know 907 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,160 conference events that happened. So there's the welcome reception 908 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,400 on the first night in and around the the the Expo hall which I 909 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:27,000 highly encourage people to go to, will have a a similar thing 910 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:28,720 happening on the second night. I can't remember what's 911 00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:31,200 happening on the third night if I'm honest so far through the 912 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,800 week that I've forgotten now. But yeah, look, look for those 913 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,800 conference events, but also you know, be alert to some of the 914 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,400 other opportunities that arise. Some of the professional 915 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:45,320 associations we mentioned will undoubtedly be doing, you know, 916 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,880 kind of get togethers at various times. 917 00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:50,640 A number of the vendors and sponsors that are represented 918 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,320 will will have evenings as well. You know, pick and choose 919 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,360 carefully, but but there's some really, really good 920 00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,520 opportunities to to get to know people in the slightly less sort 921 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,440 of formal conference context. Those relationships can be very 922 00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:04,920 valuable. Absolutely, Jim, what do you 923 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,280 think? Well, I think pace yourself is a 924 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:11,960 fantastic recommendation. But that doesn't mean every 925 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:16,880 night get Uber Eats and go back to your room and you know get to 926 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:18,720 bed early. I mean you're in Las Vegas, you 927 00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:22,440 only get to do it, you know, couple times a year, once a 928 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,160 year. Maybe this is the first time and 929 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:25,920 the only time you get to do it for a while. 930 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,400 So enjoy what you've got going on. 931 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,000 And the thing I would add to it is, you know, Jeff, you and I 932 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:36,720 always bring the Identity at the Center podcast on the road and 933 00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:40,320 make sure that we link up for some after hours and some 934 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:45,400 opportunities to kind of mingle and meet folks that listen to 935 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,640 the podcast. So we'll get some of that 936 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,920 information out as the conference gets closer and of 937 00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,520 course as it gets close to the week or two before. 938 00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:58,320 If you haven't heard anything, just ping either one of us on on 939 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,880 DM, on LinkedIn and we'll just say, you know, these are the 940 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,200 nights that we're doing something, is where we're going 941 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,240 and we'll get you on the invitee list. 942 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,640 Yeah, I mean that's, you know, that's what we do with these 943 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,160 conferences. Like you know we're going to be 944 00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:10,280 there, we're going to be recording. 945 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:12,680 Dunniverse has been great to partner with through that. 946 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,200 So we'll have like spots and I don't know, you know, I know 947 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,960 we're still kind of figuring things out, Andy, but like, I 948 00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,120 guess what do you want to see out of our podcast this year? 949 00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,400 No, I was, I was, I was just exactly where I was going to go, 950 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,520 actually, because I'm. I'm utterly delighted that you 951 00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,000 guys are going to be there again this year, Really am. 952 00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:30,240 So yeah, we're still figuring out some of the details, which 953 00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:32,720 is another reason why people should come and then they can 954 00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:34,720 find out exactly where we landed with all this. 955 00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:38,880 But we we certainly will have a recording studio. 956 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,880 You guys will have some space and some time in there so you so 957 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,800 folks can come along and kind of watch you do this for real, 958 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:46,840 which I think will be a lot of fun. 959 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:51,480 We're also looking at some other opportunities to maybe do 960 00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:53,600 something on a stage somewhere at some point. 961 00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,800 Not quite sure what that'll look like or if we can figure it out, 962 00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,080 but we're going to try. And then yeah, I suspect, you 963 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,280 know, I'd love to see the the two of you roaming the hallways 964 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,680 doing little spot interviews with people randomly that you 965 00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:08,720 can then cut into a podcast later. 966 00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:09,840 I think that would be a lot of fun. 967 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,320 And then all the people that are listening to this can come up 968 00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,800 and say, hey, I listened to that thing where you guys asked Andy 969 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,160 a bunch of questions and said answer briefly and he didn't do 970 00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,240 that. I think that'll be funny. 971 00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:23,800 I'll put like a shot. Clack up like the NBA. 972 00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,200 You've got 24 seconds to get the answer, you know, or a pitch 973 00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:28,360 count, whatever you want to use it, right? 974 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,080 Pitch clock, you know, that kind of thing, Andy, You spend so 975 00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:33,760 much time and energy putting those conference on. 976 00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,440 What do you do to unwind at night or day or whatever it may 977 00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,040 be? I mean, you've got to take a 978 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:40,720 break at some point, right? We talked about pacing. 979 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:42,520 Got to do it for yourself as well, right? 980 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,240 Yeah, this is really interesting. 981 00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:48,160 So, you know, when I started doing this, this is actually my 982 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,240 10th year coming up this year. So when I started doing it, it 983 00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:55,400 was kind of a you know, 50% of my time and the rest of my time 984 00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,680 I spend you know consulting in the identity space doing various 985 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:02,040 things. It's it's rapidly approaching 986 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,480 100% kind of time commitment effort and it's interesting 987 00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,520 because it's, it's a global thing, right. 988 00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,120 So yes, you know we're we're running in Las Vegas, but I have 989 00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,640 folks on the content committee who are out in Australia, I have 990 00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:14,320 folks in the content committee who are here in Europe. 991 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,240 I have folks who are on the West Coast as well as the East Coast 992 00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:21,720 in the US so So yeah there's there's a lot and I love it. 993 00:52:21,720 --> 00:52:25,480 I mean I it's it's an absolute privilege it really is to be 994 00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:31,800 able to to help to do this. I when I'm not doing this and 995 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,440 other work things, I do a couple of things. 996 00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,360 One is that I enjoy riding a road bike that's an old 997 00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,800 fashioned bicycle with pedals, except it's a modern old 998 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,240 fashioned bicycle because it's made of carbon and it's very 999 00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,120 sort of slippery through the air and and delightful to ride. 1000 00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,400 So that keeps me out of trouble and reasonably fit and healthy. 1001 00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,880 And then and this will make both of my wonderful hosts today 1002 00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,560 laugh hysterically. The other thing that I like to 1003 00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:59,680 do is some home recording and the reason that that will make 1004 00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,200 them laugh is we spent about 20 minutes before managing to 1005 00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,440 record this today with me going. But I have this really nice 1006 00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:10,360 microphone and I can't get it to work with your podcast thing and 1007 00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,240 it's it won't record. And so in the end, I'm using a 1008 00:53:13,240 --> 00:53:18,000 very, very cheap kind of, you know, sort of conference speaker 1009 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:19,480 thing, which seems to be working OK. 1010 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:23,920 But yes, otherwise I like to dabble in home recording and I I 1011 00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:25,640 play a couple of instruments and that kind of thing. 1012 00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,320 So yeah, just for me, just for my own benefit, but it keeps me 1013 00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,000 calm and happy and I cook. Those are the three things that 1014 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,040 I do. All right, So what instruments 1015 00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:39,920 do you play? So I play the piano keyboards 1016 00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,640 reasonably competently. I dabble with guitar. 1017 00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:46,560 I have a couple of them lurking over behind me that you can't 1018 00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,040 see, but there they are. One is a gretch. 1019 00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,480 It was not very expensive, but it's nice semi acoustic so I 1020 00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:52,720 don't have to plug it in all the time. 1021 00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:57,480 The other is a Schechter. It's years old but it plays very 1022 00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,680 nicely and I am technically capable of also playing the 1023 00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,720 bassoon, although I haven't picked one up for a while, but I 1024 00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:06,520 do have one, so yes. All right. 1025 00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,000 And then what's your go to dish? You've got to impress. 1026 00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:10,960 You've got to impress the identarati. 1027 00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,040 They're coming over and they're like Andy's cooking. 1028 00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,520 What are you making? So I run and hide because I know 1029 00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,400 very well, but there are several foodies who are who are 1030 00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:25,520 seriously good cooks, right? I am not at that level, but I do 1031 00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:29,040 like cooking Asian food. I do quite a lot of stir fry, so 1032 00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,480 I've got a nice kind of chicken with Kashi nuts thing that I do 1033 00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,480 which I can adapt. So I've done it with tofu as 1034 00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,320 well for folks that are not inclined to eat. 1035 00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,240 Meat. All right, so dinner's at Andy's 1036 00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:42,680 house tonight. Jim, what do you do? 1037 00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:44,840 I mean, you and I work at Identity all day long and we do 1038 00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:47,040 podcasting, but what do you do when you want to unwind at 1039 00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:50,640 night? So I don't drink or do drugs 1040 00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,560 yet. I work from home all day and I 1041 00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:59,520 sit in a chair. So I try to break that habit and 1042 00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:03,960 get out of the house, go to the gym, be around some people and 1043 00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,400 move my body and get some exercise. 1044 00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:11,120 I find that, well, not only does it take me from like getting in 1045 00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:17,600 400 steps in a day to like 5-6 thousand steps, it also just 1046 00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:21,120 relieves a lot of stress. So I know when people think 1047 00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,240 about, like, exercising and like, like, that doesn't sound 1048 00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:27,160 like it would reduce my stress. It takes a while. 1049 00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:28,560 You got to have to get over a hump. 1050 00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,360 But then eventually it's like something you look forward to. 1051 00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:32,680 And that's the stage that I'm in. 1052 00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,480 So yeah, that's what I do. It's like go to the gym and I 1053 00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,080 work out after work. That sounds weird. 1054 00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,600 You never go out working out. Not when we're on the road 1055 00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,120 together anyway. I got to get working on. 1056 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:43,160 All right. I'll see you. 1057 00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:47,240 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I just said don't do Uber 1058 00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:51,000 Eats in Vegas, but at least you get your workouts in. 1059 00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:54,080 Yeah, I don't know. What do I do to unwind? 1060 00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,360 I do a lot of stuff. I don't know if I have like an A 1061 00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:59,280 particular thing at this point, 'cause I'm just kind of all over 1062 00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,640 the place. I actually like creating 1063 00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,960 content. Some of it's work related, some 1064 00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:05,640 of it's not. Some of it's podcast related. 1065 00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:08,760 I'm trying to learn guitar and it's not going well. 1066 00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,280 I think that is a saga that I've been documenting on and off for 1067 00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,920 like the last year or so. There is one over my shoulder 1068 00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:15,720 that Andy, I don't know if you can or can't see it. 1069 00:56:15,720 --> 00:56:19,640 It's a relatively cheap Yamaha electric. 1070 00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:21,920 Good place to. Stop. 1071 00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,080 Yeah, nothing too crazy, but I just, I pick it up and I get 1072 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,600 frustrated too easily. My fingers don't do the thing 1073 00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,600 that they're supposed to do, and so I'm always constantly 1074 00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:34,520 thinking about that. But I play video games and I 1075 00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,720 still play World of Warcraft, and I got into Assassin's Creed 1076 00:56:37,720 --> 00:56:40,480 Valhalla recently, so starting to get in that I don't have as 1077 00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,920 much time anywhere near as much time as I wish I I did. 1078 00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:46,640 I could sit and play video games all day but they're nice, you 1079 00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,240 know, a little break, you know, from from stuff that's that 1080 00:56:49,240 --> 00:56:51,080 might be happening. So betting to play with the 1081 00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:52,560 dogs. You know, dogs are the best 1082 00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:53,720 people. I'm convinced of that. 1083 00:56:53,720 --> 00:56:58,040 So you know they are they are basically what my my hobbies are 1084 00:56:58,040 --> 00:56:59,640 at this point. We're at an hour. 1085 00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:00,920 We want to start to wrap things up. 1086 00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:04,360 We'll have links in our show notes for Identiverse for the 1087 00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:09,000 firestorm of a article that Jim brought up a link to our 1088 00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,560 discount code for the Identiverse conference, 1089 00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:16,880 identiverse.com IDV 24-I D AC25 get 25% off. 1090 00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,040 We'll have a link to Andy's LinkedIn profile. 1091 00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:23,800 So if you want to reach out to him and ask questions or maybe 1092 00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,080 put a shot clock up for an answer on something like that, 1093 00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:27,160 you know you can do that as well. 1094 00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,080 I I I love the idea of doing sort of the the Man on the 1095 00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,520 Street interview. I know Jim has talked about us 1096 00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,520 doing that behind the scenes for a while and you know, Jim, we 1097 00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:41,520 tried that at Octane, but the audio that was put out there and 1098 00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:45,720 I looked at it was not great. So still kind of in limbo, but 1099 00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:47,520 I'll have my gear with me, so maybe we can kind of figure out 1100 00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:49,480 for that. And then we'll also have the 1101 00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,120 Identiverse webinar contents that Andy that we talked about 1102 00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,520 earlier in the episode. So we'll have a link to that as 1103 00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,400 well. So and then of course you can 1104 00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,280 reach out to Jim and myself if you've got questions, comments, 1105 00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:04,320 concerns, ideas for future episodes and hit our website 1106 00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:08,880 idacpodcast.com or follow us on X Twitter, whatever it's called 1107 00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:14,120 at IDAC podcasts, Mastodon at IDAC podcast, at Infosec dot 1108 00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,320 exchange. And that's it. 1109 00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:17,960 That's all we've got. I'm done with you people. 1110 00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:19,680 I'm. Done with you also on YouTube. 1111 00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:21,040 Oh, on YouTube? Yeah, well, definitely the 1112 00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:22,760 YouTube. So I'm putting the episodes up 1113 00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:24,920 on YouTube, trying to do the YouTube shorts things. 1114 00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,520 So when you talk about what do I do to unwind, it's like all that 1115 00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:30,400 stuff. That's something here. 1116 00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:32,600 We do identity. It's centered, aren't it? 1117 00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:34,480 Yeah, exactly. All right. 1118 00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,760 I'm done with you people. Go have fun. 1119 00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:41,080 Andy, You know, thank you for very much for your partnership 1120 00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:42,560 through this process and being on the show. 1121 00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:44,720 And I look forward to seeing you in Identiverse. 1122 00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,240 And for everyone else, we'll talk with you all in the next 1123 00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,080 one. You've been listening to 1124 00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:54,000 Identity at the Center. We hope you've enjoyed the show. 1125 00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:58,400 Make sure to like, rate and review and we'll be back soon. 1126 00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:00,840 But in the meantime, hit the website at 1127 00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:07,920 identity@thecenter.com and find us on Twitter at IDAC Podcast. 1128 00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:12,560 See you next time on Identity at the Center.