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This is identity at the center. 
If it has anything to do with I 

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am, This is the go to podcast 
now your hosts Jim McDonald and 

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Jeff Steadman. 
Welcome to the Identity at the 

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Center podcast. 
I'm Jeff and that's Jim. 

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Hey, Jim. 
Hey, Jeff, how are you? 

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Oh, not so bad yourself. 
Good, good. 

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Earlier today I I joined a like 
an annual or quarterly meeting 

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for the 1414 venture group, some
of the folks that we had on the 

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podcast in the back in the past 
Jackie Shobak and Howard Hall 

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and kind of got into you know my
perspective on this is the 

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expanding, expanding scope of 
the identity. 

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Industry, right. 
We're going from kind of the 

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traditional towers of 
authentication, authorization, 

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access management, identity, 
governance, even customer. 

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I am I would say more fits into 
that. 

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It's been around for so long and
now we've got all these new 

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areas popping up like I TDR, 
identity proofing, decentralized

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identity and machine accounts. 
And so I just kind of expanded 

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on those I I said look there's. 
A lot of activity going on in 

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these spaces and a lot of 
companies in stealth and you 

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know, kind of how do you find 
those companies. 

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And you know that I don't always
have the answer to, But if there

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are folks out there who are kind
of in the stealth mode and want 

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to connect back to them and be 
able to pitch where they're at, 

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you know, reach out to me and 
Jeff and you know, we'd be more 

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than happy to make those 
connections. 

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Yeah, for sure. 
I mean, there's a lot of good 

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ideas out there and some, I'm 
sure stuff we've never heard of 

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them was like, yeah, that's like
a no brainer. 

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I was thinking about that 
before. 

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And yeah, it's a good group over
there too. 

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I mean, just good people. 
We've had them on the show like 

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said before and hopefully we can
connect dots if that's something

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that you're working on and you 
want to do an introduction, you 

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know, reach out to Jim myself. 
We're happy to to make that 

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happen. 
But I don't know, I mean, I feel

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like. 
There's so many untapped 

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potential. 
Still. 

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Did AI come up at all as part of
that conversation? 

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No, I avoided it because, you 
know, I did. 

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I wasn't there. 
Yeah. 

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Because. 
You weren't there. 

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But from an AI perspective, I 
did have my AI enhanced 

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headshot. 
And So what I said was like, 

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there is value in AI, even if 
you're an AI hater, AI headshots

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look a lot better. 
Yeah, the one you texted me was.

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I got to tell you, man, it was 
good. 

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It was real good. 
But I know, really you You 

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square off your jaw and, like, 
you know, you chisel your chin. 

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I mean, heck, you know what's 
wrong with that? 

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I mean, yeah, square off my jaw,
the rest of my body, everything.

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Could use some some more 
definition, but it was it was a 

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good looking picture. 
I I'll give you that. 

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My concern is that okay, this is
what you look like in the 

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picture and then you end up 
disappointing someone. 

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In real life you don't like 
anything like that. 

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You're welcome to my world. 
Yeah, well, OK. 

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Speaking of not hopefully not 
disappointing people as a very 

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awkward transition to, let's 
talk about the Authenticate 

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conference coming up in October.
You and I are going to be there 

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October 16th through the 18th in
Carlsbad, CA on a golf course. 

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I think it's the Omni resort, 
something like that there. 

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I don't have the the full name 
in front of me, probably should 

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have done that, but if you're 
listening to this, you can get a

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discount. 
I D AC15 podcast gets you 15% 

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off your in person registration.
We had a planning meeting 

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earlier today, Jim, about what 
we're going to be doing. 

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We're on the main stage. 
At some point. 

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I think midday we might be the 
lunch blocker, which is always a

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great spot to be in. 
We're part of the keynote, man. 

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Yeah, like, but we're going to 
run for lunch. 

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We're thinking about like doing 
like a live podcast style 

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presentation type thing, right? 
It's. 

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And we'll have some people on 
the stage with us, I think kind 

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of thinking about, you know what
topics make the most sense. 

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Maybe this is a call out for 
people who are listening. 

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Are there things that you would 
like us to talk about on stage 

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at the Authenticate conference? 
You know, obviously needs to be 

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probably somewhat appropriate to
authentication, fight alliance 

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pass keys, password less right 
things like that. 

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But we love to hear ideas. 
Obviously, you know, if you're 

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if you're looking to attend, 
whether you're in person or if 

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you're doing something remote 
because it's, I think it's gonna

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be live streamed as well. 
Always rather answer questions 

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rather than just kind of try to 
figure out what people want. 

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But it's going to be exciting. 
I think we're going to, we're 

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going to have a cool live show. 
It's going to be streamed to, I 

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don't know, millions, billions 
of people and yeah. 

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To 9 billion people, right? 
Yeah. 

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And all that. 
Real people and all the fake 

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people. 
Yeah, well, I think it's The 

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Last of Us we put out, we were 
like, oh, there's no way, no 

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second last episode was like. 
There was no way we could talk 

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for 90 minutes, right? 
That's how we started off the 

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show. 
And then what did we do? 

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We recorded for 90 minutes, by 
far the longest episode we've 

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done, I think by like a good 10 
minutes. 

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So I'm sure we can fill time if 
needed, but we'll give about an 

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hour's worth of a presentation. 
On the last thing that I'm 

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really excited about, so if you 
use our discount code, you 

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automatically get entered into a
raffle and the the kind folks 

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who are putting on the 
conference are going to put 

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together some kind of goodie 
bag. 

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And it's going to be the prize 
for the person who selected 

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that. 
Now it could be a bag full of 

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trinkets, Halloween candy. 
I have no idea. 

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But it's going to be something. 
So you know, make sure you use 

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that code, You get 15% off and 
and maybe get a prize. 

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Yeah, that'd be kind of cool. 
I don't know. 

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I'm not sure yet how that's 
going to work. 

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Don't have a lot of details, but
use the code, support the Show 

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ID AC15 podcast. 
I'll have it in our show notes 

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too, so people can use it there.
But yeah, there'll be something.

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For a Lucky ID AC15 podcast code
user of some sort. 

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So we got that. 
I'm going to be at Identity Week

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America. 
A couple weeks before that in 

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DC, I'm hosting a panel there 
talking about passkeys and 

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things like that. 
So if you're going to be out 

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there and we're working on a 
discount code for that one as 

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well. 
So good news is we have discount

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codes and they're and they're 
for two conferences. 

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Couldn't be further apart from 
each other in the US, the ones 

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in DC on the East Coast, the 
other ones in California and the

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West Coast. 
The the the dates and times 

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don't overlap. 
So there won't be any conflict 

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or anything like that. 
But we'll have that in the 

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future show. 
So keep an eye out for that okay

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enough promotion. 
Why don't we get to our topic 

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today? 
Because I think this is a 

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conversation with an individual 
that's probably a long time 

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coming and I feel like I want to
say that this is his second 

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appearance on the show. 
And the only way that you would 

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know that is if you listen to 
one of the identifier shows 

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where I won't say it was 
harassment or physical, you 

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know, accostment of one of our 
accosting one of our our guests 

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as we were recording in the 
hallway there. 

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But this is someone we're 
excited to have on the show. 

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His name is David Lee. 
He's an author, a speaker, a 

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finance guy. 
He is an aspiring mogul and most

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importantly for us, he is the 
identity Jedi. 

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So welcome to the show, David. 
Thanks. 

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That's a great introduction. 
And no, it was not Assault. 

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It was a nice, it's a nice 
shoulder massage. 

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I was trying to make sure Ian 
was nice and prepped for his 

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interview. 
Yeah, well, Ian's good people 

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and we took him in stride, but. 
Yeah, great to have you on here.

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I think for for people who don't
know who you are and you've, 

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you've put out a lot of content.
You've got, you know, YouTube 

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channel and you've got a whole 
bunch of stuff you work on. 

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But hey, this is, I guess we'll 
call it officially the first 

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time. 
We've actually got to sit and 

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talk with you. 
We want to find out identity 

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origin stories, you know, how 
did you get into the world of 

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identity? 
Is it something that you chose 

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or did it choose you? 
Yeah, so. 

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Great question because I, I love
to ask those to people as well. 

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So it shows me and how it 
started was I came out of 

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college, wanted to be like it's 
the best software engineer ever.

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And so I started working for 
federal contracting for the 

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government. 
And so my first contract, it 

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was, you know, pretty cool. 
I was doing some J2 EE stuff. 

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That's how old I am. 
And then I got onto another and 

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it's another project and it was 
like, hey, like we're going to 

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build this. 
System where people are going to

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like you have to manage access 
and you have to create a way for

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people to request the access and
it just it sounded like so super

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cool and indepth and I'm 
thinking oh man I'm going to get

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a chance to build like something
really cool. 

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So I come in there day one and 
I'm just I'm all ready to go 

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right. 
I'm I'm fresh stuff on you know 

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Java and how we can do this and 
the latest things that we can 

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do. 
We got like these swing applets 

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and all the stuff that we can 
build like I am super geek and 

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like the architecture's looking 
at me he's like huh. 

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It's pretty cool. 
I came in, check this out, like,

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you know, because the first week
back then it took forever to get

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your access. 
So I'm building prototypes, all 

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this stuff or whatever. 
And he's like, that's great. 

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So he comes in and he takes like
these two big books, the Sun, 

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IDM training books, drops them 
on my desk and goes read through

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there. 
I'll teach you how to install 

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it. 
That's the product we're working

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on. 
We got to get this up and 

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deployed in the next 60 days. 
Oh, by the way, I'm going on 

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vacation for two weeks. 
I expect you to have this 

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figured out by the time I get 
back. 

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Welcome to the project, kid. 
And walked out And I'm like, 

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huh? 
And that's literally how I came 

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into Identity. 
I had no clue what it was. 

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So I started installing some 
Identity manager, going through 

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and figuring out the more I'm 
playing with this thing, I'm 

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like, I don't need to code 
anything, like it's kind of all 

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there. 
And so I'm digging into this 

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language, figuring out what it 
is. 

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And I'm the type of person that 
once I'm working with something,

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I need to understand everything 
about it to really understand 

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where it works. 
And the analogy I like to use is

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like, you know, if you give me a
hammer, I want to go look at the

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tool set because I want to 
understand, like, what does this

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hammer relate to? 
Everything else that's send me 

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okay. 
Well, This is why I use this 

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instead of a screwdriver. 
And so that just put me down a 

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rabbit hole. 
I got really good at some idea 

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understanding roles, 
provisioning, what Ldaps were, 

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what access was, what access 
management, what certificate 

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authorities were, and just yadda
yadda yadda on and on and on. 

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I've been doing it ever since, 
so it shows me, and I'm kind of 

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glad I did. 
I kind of like the idea of. 

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Make this trial by fire that you
got right. 

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This guy shows up. 
He's got books drops on your 

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desk like I'm. 
I'm out of here. 

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Peace. 
See him like sick. 

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You know in a couple weeks. 
You know welcome to the jungle 

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plays in the background and 
you're like, all right, well, I 

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guess I got to get to this 
right. 

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I feel like this is like a movie
scene that can like come 

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together and now you've got this
thing called the I am Jedi. 

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Tell me about the identity Jedi.
Like, what is this? 

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Yeah, there's a newsletter. 
I'm signed up. 

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I'm getting stuff from you like 
it seems like every day. 

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Like, tell me about this. 
Yeah, so this all originated. 

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I did a talk at Identifiers, I 
don't know, maybe two or three 

223
00:11:06,500 --> 00:11:07,660
years ago. 
Now I have to go look it up. 

224
00:11:08,060 --> 00:11:11,220
But it's called how to How to 
Become an identity, right? 

225
00:11:11,660 --> 00:11:13,300
News slash. 
I'm a huge Star Wars man. 

226
00:11:14,220 --> 00:11:16,620
But at the time I was just 
thinking there was, we started 

227
00:11:16,620 --> 00:11:18,900
to see this wave of people 
coming into identity, right. 

228
00:11:18,900 --> 00:11:21,260
And what I would say like the 
second generation of. 

229
00:11:22,030 --> 00:11:24,070
Where there was a lot more 
information out there now like 

230
00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:26,390
so back like when I started 
probably I would, I would assume

231
00:11:26,390 --> 00:11:29,350
when you guys started like you 
learn this by just doing it and 

232
00:11:29,350 --> 00:11:31,910
whatever vendor product you had 
and then you learned other stuff

233
00:11:31,950 --> 00:11:33,510
like they just there wasn't any 
place to go. 

234
00:11:33,510 --> 00:11:34,990
We didn't have forms. 
We didn't have anything. 

235
00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:38,670
It was just there you go. 
And so as I was talking to 

236
00:11:38,670 --> 00:11:40,870
customers, I started noticing 
like a lot of them were just 

237
00:11:40,870 --> 00:11:43,630
struggling understanding these 
concepts and basics and a lot of

238
00:11:43,630 --> 00:11:45,910
people that have been leading 
these organizations, you know 

239
00:11:45,950 --> 00:11:48,550
knew nothing about identity. 
They were just giving A-Team go 

240
00:11:48,550 --> 00:11:50,190
run this, you now have to do 
this and so. 

241
00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,640
I wanted to create this 
presentation. 

242
00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,520
We're just like, okay, This is, 
this is what it is. 

243
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:56,760
Here's how you can be 
successful. 

244
00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,600
There's busiest side, there's 
technical side. 

245
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,560
So I was like, okay, here's how 
you become an identity Jedi. 

246
00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:03,280
And then I just kind of stuck 
with it. 

247
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,400
People loved that talk. 
They kept going. 

248
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,160
And then I was like, well, I'll 
just keep going with this 

249
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,080
moniker. 
And so from there, it turned 

250
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,400
into a newsletter, which is the 
identityjedi.com. 

251
00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,160
And so I send a newsletter out 
every week, usually on 

252
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,400
Wednesdays, which there's not 
going to be 1 today, setting a 

253
00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,080
chance to write it. 
So it'll be coming tomorrow, 

254
00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:21,190
but. 
But yeah, just kind of following

255
00:12:22,230 --> 00:12:24,510
following the the industry, 
right, the news and and what's 

256
00:12:24,510 --> 00:12:27,030
going on and different takes 
that I have on things and 

257
00:12:27,230 --> 00:12:30,310
explaining what these things are
as is coming out because from 

258
00:12:30,350 --> 00:12:34,110
from that time that I gave that 
talk to now, you know I feel 

259
00:12:34,110 --> 00:12:36,710
like the the market has 
accelerated in the type of 

260
00:12:36,710 --> 00:12:38,790
things that we're doing. 
Identity is so much more front 

261
00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:40,830
and center now and so again 
we're getting more and more 

262
00:12:40,830 --> 00:12:43,030
people coming into it. 
But we still don't do a very 

263
00:12:43,030 --> 00:12:44,870
good job of just kind of 
explaining what all this stuff 

264
00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:45,990
is. 
It's kind of one of these things

265
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:47,550
like you're already in the 
clubhouse, so you know. 

266
00:12:47,850 --> 00:12:49,570
So when you get somebody brand 
new coming in, they're like, 

267
00:12:49,570 --> 00:12:51,370
well, what's this and what's 
that? 

268
00:12:51,370 --> 00:12:52,890
What's the final like, what's 
Samuel? 

269
00:12:53,010 --> 00:12:55,850
And, And we just talk about this
stuff and throw it around like 

270
00:12:56,010 --> 00:12:58,130
this is just what we know. 
And so I want to have a place 

271
00:12:58,130 --> 00:13:00,290
where people could come if they 
knew identity that should learn 

272
00:13:00,530 --> 00:13:03,010
if they're just, they love 
identity like like I do, like 

273
00:13:03,010 --> 00:13:04,810
you guys do. 
Like here's actually things that

274
00:13:04,810 --> 00:13:07,730
I've found and I'd like to rent 
and write stuff and people like 

275
00:13:07,730 --> 00:13:09,450
to read it. 
So I'm like, oh, here we go. 

276
00:13:10,170 --> 00:13:12,530
Somebody brought that up because
we were talking before we hit 

277
00:13:12,530 --> 00:13:16,810
record about barbers and when I 
go to the Barber. 

278
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,800
You know, take one first of all,
it takes a while to find a good 

279
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,680
one, and then once you have 
them, you don't let them go. 

280
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:23,080
Right. 
Ever. 

281
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,680
Yeah. 
And it's like, OK, one of the 

282
00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:28,080
first questions that, you know, 
typically asks is what do you 

283
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,920
do? 
Oh, I work in consulting. 

284
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:32,520
OK Well, what kind of 
consultant? 

285
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,080
Oh, security. 
Well, you mean like for doors? 

286
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,120
No, for information security. 
I was like, oh, OK, well, what 

287
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:39,200
do you mean? 
It's like, OK, well, you know, 

288
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,920
like ID's and passwords and 
things like that. 

289
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,080
That's sort of the field that 
I'm in. 

290
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,440
Oh, OK. 
And then I feel like it's a 

291
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,480
courteous, oh, OK, like, I don't
know what you just said, but 

292
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,160
sure, I'm just going to keep 
cutting your hair. 

293
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,320
How do you like, how do you tell
people what you do? 

294
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:58,120
I don't man of mystery, I just. 
You just. 

295
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,480
Put your cloak over your head 
and then you just turn away and 

296
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,560
you just wave your fingers. 
This is not the Jedi you're 

297
00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:06,760
looking for. 
Honestly like, so if I'm talking

298
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:08,520
to somebody like outside of the 
energy, I just tell I was like, 

299
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,360
yeah, I work in the cyber 
screening space and I just 

300
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,530
because it just doesn't. 
Depending on their level of 

301
00:14:13,530 --> 00:14:15,090
interest, right. 
If they really want to get into 

302
00:14:15,090 --> 00:14:18,210
it, then, you know, I'll explain
it and get into it. 

303
00:14:18,210 --> 00:14:21,050
But most of the time I just say 
I'm in the cybersecurity space. 

304
00:14:21,050 --> 00:14:23,290
Or if I get to deep into that, I
was like, yeah, especially like 

305
00:14:23,290 --> 00:14:25,370
getting access management. 
I was like, so, you know, like 

306
00:14:25,490 --> 00:14:28,450
all the things that you do at 
work when you go and access your

307
00:14:28,450 --> 00:14:29,770
computer, these applications, 
stuff like that. 

308
00:14:29,770 --> 00:14:32,050
I was like, yeah, well, behind 
the scenes there's a bunch of 

309
00:14:32,050 --> 00:14:33,770
the needs that happen to make 
sure that you get that. 

310
00:14:33,770 --> 00:14:36,650
I was like, I help people build 
systems that do that and people 

311
00:14:36,650 --> 00:14:38,250
usually kind of get that and go 
okay cool. 

312
00:14:38,530 --> 00:14:41,860
So. 
And we were talking a little bit

313
00:14:41,860 --> 00:14:44,820
about identifiers earlier and 
the the not harassment that took

314
00:14:44,820 --> 00:14:51,700
place of Ian, but you gave one 
of the best, like keynote things

315
00:14:51,700 --> 00:14:53,500
that I've seen on the stage in a
long time. 

316
00:14:54,060 --> 00:14:57,940
And my understanding is it was 
your first time doing that and I

317
00:14:57,940 --> 00:15:00,900
thought you killed it. 
What was it like being up there 

318
00:15:00,900 --> 00:15:02,300
and for people who weren't 
there? 

319
00:15:02,380 --> 00:15:05,380
Can you just kind of just a real
brief synopsis of what your talk

320
00:15:05,380 --> 00:15:08,260
was about and then take me 
behind the scenes like? 

321
00:15:08,990 --> 00:15:09,830
What was going? 
Through your head. 

322
00:15:09,830 --> 00:15:12,590
Like, were you, like, ready? 
Were you, like, did you black 

323
00:15:12,590 --> 00:15:15,510
out like Will Ferrell in old 
school answering the question, 

324
00:15:15,950 --> 00:15:17,750
how did that go? 
Yeah. 

325
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:19,310
Well, first of all, thank you 
for that, man. 

326
00:15:19,710 --> 00:15:21,230
That means a lot. 
I appreciate it. 

327
00:15:21,470 --> 00:15:25,470
I was telling Ian I was like, 
it's the athletes that I've 

328
00:15:25,470 --> 00:15:27,350
gotten from people. 
It means the most of me, from my

329
00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:29,390
peers, right, People who are 
actually in this industry. 

330
00:15:29,390 --> 00:15:32,930
And that means a lot. 
It was my first keynote, but I 

331
00:15:32,930 --> 00:15:34,250
mean, it wasn't my first time 
speaking. 

332
00:15:34,250 --> 00:15:36,850
So I want to make sure these 
people are listening right. 

333
00:15:36,850 --> 00:15:39,130
And I didn't just like, I'm 
going to come to speaker, let's 

334
00:15:39,130 --> 00:15:40,850
go on the exact thing and go 
kill it. 

335
00:15:41,170 --> 00:15:45,010
But it was my first keynote and 
you know, coming up to it, it 

336
00:15:45,010 --> 00:15:49,210
was it was pretty nervous and I 
was more nervous than I than I 

337
00:15:49,210 --> 00:15:52,490
usually in for speaking. 
The talk actually came together 

338
00:15:52,930 --> 00:15:55,530
10:00 o'clock the night before. 
Like not like I had the slides 

339
00:15:55,530 --> 00:15:57,410
and everything done like that. 
All that's was submitted, but 

340
00:15:57,410 --> 00:15:59,660
like. 
You know, I'm not a big person. 

341
00:15:59,660 --> 00:16:02,020
I don't, I don't practice a lot.
Like, I'm not one of these 

342
00:16:02,020 --> 00:16:03,780
people who'll tell you, oh, 
practice and do all this stuff, 

343
00:16:03,780 --> 00:16:05,540
whatever. 
That's not my style. 

344
00:16:05,540 --> 00:16:07,300
I'm much more of a 
conversational style. 

345
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:10,340
I'm much more of a storyteller. 
So I had this story of what I 

346
00:16:10,340 --> 00:16:12,020
wanted to tell and how I wanted 
to set it up. 

347
00:16:12,140 --> 00:16:13,980
It just wasn't flowing right. 
They didn't come together. 

348
00:16:13,980 --> 00:16:15,540
Like I said, about 10:00, 
o'clock the night before. 

349
00:16:16,220 --> 00:16:19,340
And I I had the 8:00 o'clock 
freaking teen outside the 

350
00:16:19,340 --> 00:16:20,820
hungover slot. 
And I had the hangover slot 

351
00:16:20,820 --> 00:16:22,300
because we're in Vegas at a 
conference, right? 

352
00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:24,660
And of course, everybody's 
texting me, oh, come out, come 

353
00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:25,460
out. 
And I'm like, Nope, I had to 

354
00:16:25,460 --> 00:16:27,500
turn my phone off, fuck myself. 
And I was like, no. 

355
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,360
I was like, dude, mic check is 
like at 7. 

356
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,520
Like no, I'm not, I'm not going 
anywhere. 

357
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,760
So I get up that morning, go to 
mic check. 

358
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:41,760
And yeah, like once I kind of 
submitted to the final like 

359
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,280
notes the night before, I felt 
better about it. 

360
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,480
I was kind of walking through it
on my phone back in the green 

361
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,960
room and just kind of taking 
everything in. 

362
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,280
And then it's funny like a week 
before I was talking to Ian 

363
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,520
about like, when I do give talk 
it, I I do black out it, it 

364
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:56,440
doesn't. 
Like, I don't. 

365
00:16:56,780 --> 00:16:59,420
I couldn't tell you what 
happened on stage. 

366
00:16:59,420 --> 00:17:00,940
I can tell you what I talked 
about because another talk. 

367
00:17:00,940 --> 00:17:02,300
But I couldn't tell you like 
what happened on stage. 

368
00:17:02,300 --> 00:17:06,099
Like as soon as I, as soon as 
Andy said it and like, they kind

369
00:17:06,099 --> 00:17:07,980
of raised up the lights and I 
walked out like that. 

370
00:17:08,099 --> 00:17:09,859
That's it. 
That's all for mayor. 

371
00:17:09,859 --> 00:17:11,940
It was just the next thing I 
remember is walking on stage and

372
00:17:11,940 --> 00:17:15,260
there's Ian giving me this huge 
big hug and telling me how much 

373
00:17:15,260 --> 00:17:16,500
I killed it. 
And I was like, cool. 

374
00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:19,099
I was like, I'm glad people 
liked it because I couldn't tell

375
00:17:19,099 --> 00:17:21,740
you what that guy just. 
Said. 

376
00:17:21,740 --> 00:17:23,220
It was a lot of fun. 
It was really good. 

377
00:17:23,660 --> 00:17:26,420
So when you went behind stage, 
it's Vegas where they're like. 

378
00:17:26,780 --> 00:17:29,100
I don't know, like drinks 
flowing. 

379
00:17:29,340 --> 00:17:32,580
We had like Sammy, you know, 
Sammy Davis. 

380
00:17:32,580 --> 00:17:35,260
We had a whole bunch of 
different impersonators there. 

381
00:17:35,260 --> 00:17:37,260
Like, what was, what was it like
behind the scenes? 

382
00:17:38,540 --> 00:17:42,700
Yeah, so I'd love to say that it
was like big huge party back 

383
00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:44,580
there. 
It wasn't, It was pretty again, 

384
00:17:44,820 --> 00:17:46,700
early hangover slot like. 
So if I probably had like a 

385
00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:48,500
later slot, you know, maybe the 
Rat Pack would have came by. 

386
00:17:48,620 --> 00:17:52,180
But no, like backstage before me
and the Green Room and my media 

387
00:17:52,180 --> 00:17:53,980
team that I bought and then 
walking back off stage. 

388
00:17:54,530 --> 00:17:56,650
It was literally was Ian in the 
next panel that was behind me. 

389
00:17:56,650 --> 00:17:58,250
And then that was it, right? 
You know, just kind of walked 

390
00:17:58,250 --> 00:18:01,650
off and took my headset and was 
like, yeah, great job and move. 

391
00:18:01,770 --> 00:18:04,810
We got to get to the next thing.
So it was very much kind of 

392
00:18:04,810 --> 00:18:06,170
like, you know, kind of moving 
on to the next thing. 

393
00:18:06,170 --> 00:18:10,970
But it was very, I knew it was 
special from the reaction that I

394
00:18:10,970 --> 00:18:12,850
got from everybody afterwards, 
like the rest of the day, just 

395
00:18:12,850 --> 00:18:15,170
kind of coming up to me telling 
me how much they enjoyed it. 

396
00:18:15,290 --> 00:18:17,450
And it's your earlier question 
of what it was about. 

397
00:18:17,930 --> 00:18:20,250
The main premise was just 
looking at the future of 

398
00:18:20,250 --> 00:18:23,410
Identity and Web Three and the 
promise that. 

399
00:18:23,980 --> 00:18:26,580
Web three kind of brings to us 
and and the questions we have to

400
00:18:26,580 --> 00:18:29,220
kind of start asking and looking
at what this means is we start 

401
00:18:29,220 --> 00:18:32,220
to kind of develop this 
technology and that it's, you 

402
00:18:32,220 --> 00:18:33,780
know, I believe it's a pivotal 
technology. 

403
00:18:33,780 --> 00:18:36,220
And the fact that it's one of 
those things that really forces 

404
00:18:36,220 --> 00:18:39,380
us to to look back at things 
that question the decisions 

405
00:18:39,380 --> 00:18:42,620
we've made maybe 20 years ago 
And is this still the case if we

406
00:18:42,620 --> 00:18:45,140
build this new identity, if it's
truly decentralized and 

407
00:18:45,140 --> 00:18:47,140
connected, like how do we 
rethink some of these use cases 

408
00:18:47,140 --> 00:18:49,660
that we've just known. 
This is how you do it for, for 

409
00:18:49,660 --> 00:18:52,820
years now and some of the 
implications that it has right I

410
00:18:52,820 --> 00:18:54,680
touched on. 
You know what this means is we 

411
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,560
look at this technology, we're 
already starting to see some of 

412
00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:00,360
it roll out a digital driver's 
license and then how it affects 

413
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:01,560
it. 
We've kind of created this 

414
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,400
technology term and access to it
is kind of risen with it like we

415
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:06,720
do. 
A lot of the technology that's 

416
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,200
talking about especially around 
these centralized identity is 

417
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,720
built around, you know, like 
Apple iPhones and Samsung phones

418
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,040
and these things, these things 
are expensive. 

419
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:16,400
These are $1000, you know 
phones, right. 

420
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,720
And and we count ourselves very 
privileged in the fact that 

421
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,960
yeah, we can afford these, but 
the average person can. 

422
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,560
And so if we're, if we're 
looking to build. 

423
00:19:23,050 --> 00:19:25,970
A new kind of wave of this 
quickly identity and and make 

424
00:19:25,970 --> 00:19:28,650
this stuff more accessible. 
We also have to think about what

425
00:19:28,650 --> 00:19:31,130
kind of barriers of entry are we
creating there right. 

426
00:19:31,130 --> 00:19:32,450
Yes. 
It's it's not like I love my 

427
00:19:32,450 --> 00:19:34,210
iPhone. 
I will never leave. 

428
00:19:34,210 --> 00:19:35,810
I I can live through this thing.
Right. 

429
00:19:35,810 --> 00:19:36,970
I I love it. 
Right. 

430
00:19:37,010 --> 00:19:40,730
And so but that's me, right. 
That's not like the average 

431
00:19:40,730 --> 00:19:42,010
person. 
So we just need to we need to be

432
00:19:42,010 --> 00:19:44,930
aware of those things and make 
sure that you know this this is 

433
00:19:44,930 --> 00:19:47,090
a chance for us to build a 
technology that truly is 

434
00:19:47,090 --> 00:19:48,930
revolutionary and we just need 
to make sure that we're thinking

435
00:19:48,930 --> 00:19:49,610
about all of. 
It. 

436
00:19:49,690 --> 00:19:52,650
Yeah, I think it's, you know, 
just in what you're talking 

437
00:19:52,650 --> 00:19:56,210
about with doing the keynote, I 
would have been nervous as hell.

438
00:19:57,130 --> 00:19:59,010
There's no way I could have 
gotten through that. 

439
00:19:59,330 --> 00:20:05,050
But you did a fantastic job. 
You also did EIC this year, 

440
00:20:05,050 --> 00:20:07,490
right? 
You got up and did a speech 

441
00:20:07,490 --> 00:20:10,450
there. 
Not this year, but I've done EIC

442
00:20:10,650 --> 00:20:12,730
in in years before, but not this
past year. 

443
00:20:13,130 --> 00:20:14,730
What was that like? 
Was that pretty cool? 

444
00:20:15,850 --> 00:20:19,520
That was. 
It was fantastic and and the 

445
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:20,560
reason. 
So for two reasons. 

446
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:22,720
Number one, I mean I love 
talking about identity and at 

447
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,520
the time I was I was still at 
some point So me and Mike Kaiser

448
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:32,160
who was the ivory to my Ebony, 
we used to always just be 

449
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,680
running to do an example. 
So we actually gave a talk 

450
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,760
together at EIC. 
But it was in Munich. 

451
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,960
It was a great time connected 
with people out there. 

452
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,320
I love the European identity 
community but it was special for

453
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,240
me because I got to just take my
mom. 

454
00:20:45,650 --> 00:20:47,250
And that was the first time she 
had ever left the left the 

455
00:20:47,250 --> 00:20:49,530
country. 
So took her to Germany. 

456
00:20:50,210 --> 00:20:52,490
We went, got a chance to see 
some of the sites. 

457
00:20:52,650 --> 00:20:56,610
Did a train ride out to Prague, 
like all this kind of stuff. 

458
00:20:56,690 --> 00:20:58,410
And then she, I don't think she 
would want to come to the 

459
00:20:58,410 --> 00:21:00,170
conference. 
So then she comes to the 

460
00:21:00,170 --> 00:21:02,730
conference and she's like 
walking around and like learning

461
00:21:02,730 --> 00:21:04,810
different stuff about identity 
that she would have talked to 

462
00:21:04,810 --> 00:21:06,930
like Pam and like hanging out 
with the women in identity. 

463
00:21:06,930 --> 00:21:09,810
And it was just hilarious like, 
and my mom's like olding up to 

464
00:21:09,810 --> 00:21:11,490
where like this. 
A lot of this stuff for her is 

465
00:21:11,490 --> 00:21:14,010
just like this is. 
This is the sci-fi stuff, right,

466
00:21:14,010 --> 00:21:16,330
that they used to talk about. 
She's just saying, but she had a

467
00:21:16,330 --> 00:21:18,530
blast and it was great. 
And that she fell in love with 

468
00:21:18,530 --> 00:21:21,890
European coffee to the point now
where like I have to import like

469
00:21:21,890 --> 00:21:24,530
German coffee for her because, 
you know, apparently American 

470
00:21:24,530 --> 00:21:26,170
coffee is horrible. 
I don't. 

471
00:21:26,170 --> 00:21:28,690
I'm not a coffee drinker so I 
y'all taste like dirt to me, so 

472
00:21:28,690 --> 00:21:32,090
oh. 
Man, that's that's rough. 

473
00:21:32,170 --> 00:21:35,810
I know Jeff's in the same camp 
I'm from the camp of. 

474
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,840
By the way, I love this is one 
of the things I wanted to talk 

475
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:43,880
about in the like my prediction 
for the future is that Coke 0 or

476
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,280
any kind of 0 soft drink goes 
off the charts because I think 

477
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,970
Diet Coke, Diet Pepsi. 
Anything with aspartame in it? 

478
00:21:51,970 --> 00:21:53,610
Just, I feel like it kind of 
already has, though. 

479
00:21:53,730 --> 00:21:56,210
I mean, you couldn't get Coke 0 
during the pandemic. 

480
00:21:56,210 --> 00:21:58,210
I mean, everyone has had it like
it was. 

481
00:21:58,210 --> 00:22:00,530
Yeah, but like from a 
restaurant, you're right. 

482
00:22:00,530 --> 00:22:04,290
Like you go into a supermarket 
or grocery store, it's zero. 

483
00:22:04,330 --> 00:22:07,050
But if you go into a restaurant,
you order a Jack and Coke, 

484
00:22:07,450 --> 00:22:09,290
they're like, well, are you say,
do you have Coke? 

485
00:22:09,290 --> 00:22:11,170
Zero. 
We have Diet Coke. 

486
00:22:11,170 --> 00:22:13,690
It's like, that's not. 
Yeah, and then you put like the 

487
00:22:13,690 --> 00:22:15,610
crossing. 
Get that away from me. 

488
00:22:15,610 --> 00:22:16,370
Yeah. 
No, no, no. 

489
00:22:16,650 --> 00:22:19,290
McDonald's has Coke Zero I 
discovered recently, so. 

490
00:22:20,050 --> 00:22:23,250
Progress is being made in the 
soda industry, so thank you for 

491
00:22:23,250 --> 00:22:24,810
that over. 
In humanity. 

492
00:22:24,850 --> 00:22:26,090
In humanity. 
In humanity. 

493
00:22:27,130 --> 00:22:29,850
So. 
David, any more conferences for 

494
00:22:29,850 --> 00:22:32,530
you this year? 
No, that's it. 

495
00:22:33,650 --> 00:22:35,410
I am. 
I'm tapped out this year. 

496
00:22:35,850 --> 00:22:38,610
I thought about going to Octane,
but you know what? 

497
00:22:38,610 --> 00:22:40,370
It's a lot different going to 
these conferences. 

498
00:22:40,370 --> 00:22:43,090
When you gotta, you gotta pick 
the budget for it. 

499
00:22:43,090 --> 00:22:46,830
So I'm like, I'm good. 
Yeah, especially when they're 

500
00:22:46,830 --> 00:22:50,430
like downtown San Fran and the 
hotel rooms are like 400 a 

501
00:22:50,430 --> 00:22:51,590
night. 
Yeah. 

502
00:22:52,550 --> 00:22:57,350
For pretty basic so, but man, 
you've got so much going on. 

503
00:22:57,830 --> 00:23:00,110
We saw that you wrote a book 
recently. 

504
00:23:00,950 --> 00:23:04,070
Want to know, you know, what's 
it called, what's it about, and 

505
00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:07,990
then what made you write it? 
Because that's a lot of work. 

506
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:12,030
So the name of the book is the 
only one in the room. 

507
00:23:12,190 --> 00:23:15,110
The unwritten rules of being 
black and tech and. 

508
00:23:15,950 --> 00:23:17,710
What made me write it? 
I'll give you. 

509
00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:20,110
I'll do the the short story of 
it because it is. 

510
00:23:20,150 --> 00:23:24,270
It's a pretty long story. 
But I decided to write it right 

511
00:23:24,270 --> 00:23:27,550
after I left Amazon. 
So I was at Amazon. 

512
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:30,310
I served 10 months at Amazon 
institution, I mean. 

513
00:23:31,030 --> 00:23:35,110
I was served. 
Thank you for your service. 

514
00:23:35,550 --> 00:23:37,310
I was. 
I was let out for good behavior 

515
00:23:38,430 --> 00:23:42,950
and coming out of there I, you 
know there was a lot of things 

516
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:45,310
that. 
I I kind of saw both at Amazon 

517
00:23:45,310 --> 00:23:48,230
and just in general that I was 
like you know what this is 

518
00:23:49,230 --> 00:23:51,910
there's a there's a kind of dark
underside detective and I don't 

519
00:23:51,910 --> 00:23:56,590
think we talk about enough. 
And yeah there have been we've 

520
00:23:56,590 --> 00:23:58,510
been having debates and 
discussions about diversity 

521
00:23:58,510 --> 00:24:00,670
equity, inclusion and things of 
that nature and that's been 

522
00:24:01,190 --> 00:24:04,470
okay. 
It's been progress I guess 0 to 

523
00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:07,990
one is progress like to see more
but it just kind of hate me 

524
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:09,630
coming after that that I was 
like hey this is. 

525
00:24:10,810 --> 00:24:12,330
I think this is something that I
that I really want to talk 

526
00:24:12,330 --> 00:24:13,290
about. 
And I looked at like my 

527
00:24:13,290 --> 00:24:15,650
experience and what my career 
had been like and the things 

528
00:24:15,650 --> 00:24:18,330
that I have learned. 
And, you know, for me is the 

529
00:24:18,330 --> 00:24:21,770
journey that I've been on. 
You know, I grew up in Los 

530
00:24:21,770 --> 00:24:24,370
Angeles, just outside of Los 
Angeles, and then I kind of went

531
00:24:24,370 --> 00:24:25,810
to school in the inland, 
imperative suburbs. 

532
00:24:25,810 --> 00:24:29,130
But at the time that I grew up, 
you know, statistics, you know, 

533
00:24:29,130 --> 00:24:33,650
for, you know, people of, of my 
age group, like as a black male,

534
00:24:33,650 --> 00:24:35,690
I was supposed to be dead or in 
jail by the age of 17. 

535
00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:40,110
That was that was a statistic I 
was like 67% likely like this is

536
00:24:40,110 --> 00:24:41,750
going to happen. 
Like it was very low statistics 

537
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:43,870
that anybody actually made it on
did anything. 

538
00:24:43,950 --> 00:24:47,230
And so that's something that 
just kind of stuck with me When 

539
00:24:47,230 --> 00:24:50,030
I remember hearing that when I 
was younger and you know to kind

540
00:24:50,030 --> 00:24:52,790
of go from that to things that 
I've been able to accomplish. 

541
00:24:52,830 --> 00:24:55,510
The stages I've spoken on 
countries I've been able to 

542
00:24:55,510 --> 00:24:57,950
visit friends I've been able to 
do, the lifestyle I've been able

543
00:24:57,950 --> 00:25:00,650
to live looks like there's. 
It's been pretty cool and and 

544
00:25:00,650 --> 00:25:04,290
there's I want to see more 
people you know like that to 

545
00:25:04,290 --> 00:25:06,370
come into this this field but 
there's a lot of things that 

546
00:25:06,370 --> 00:25:09,490
kind of people just don't tell 
you about that I I said okay if 

547
00:25:09,490 --> 00:25:11,890
I could do it all over again. 
I went back in time and I 

548
00:25:12,050 --> 00:25:15,010
grabbed my 19 year old self like
what would I tell him and what I

549
00:25:15,010 --> 00:25:16,850
tell him to look out for. 
And that's kind of what led me 

550
00:25:16,850 --> 00:25:20,290
to started writing some of this 
stuff down and it was it was a 

551
00:25:20,330 --> 00:25:23,010
very interesting journey. 
I will say you know for me I I 

552
00:25:23,010 --> 00:25:25,010
love to write. 
I love to write and read. 

553
00:25:25,210 --> 00:25:30,320
Sorry Jim so. 
Writing the actual book wasn't 

554
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,440
wasn't the hard part. 
Like that actually kind of took 

555
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:34,840
maybe about three or four 
months. 

556
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,720
The whole process took me about 
three years. 

557
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,120
And a lot of that was just 
mental. 

558
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,040
Like, I'm gonna write a book 
like, what are people gonna 

559
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:42,680
think? 
Like, man, I'm not some super 

560
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,480
famous guy like this guy writing
the book. 

561
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,240
And then like the title and the 
subject. 

562
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,000
I'm like, man, people are gonna 
get all crazy. 

563
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,320
I'm like, but I'm the type of 
person I'm very like. 

564
00:25:50,980 --> 00:25:51,980
I'm always in front about 
everything. 

565
00:25:51,980 --> 00:25:53,900
Let's let's if there's a 
problem, let's go tackle it 

566
00:25:53,900 --> 00:25:55,740
together. 
And I think part of the problem 

567
00:25:55,740 --> 00:25:57,900
why this thing still exists and 
we deal with all these issues 

568
00:25:58,060 --> 00:26:00,180
because we don't want to talk 
about it and we want to kind of,

569
00:26:00,580 --> 00:26:03,100
you know, tiptoe around it and 
like, yeah, we want to be 

570
00:26:03,100 --> 00:26:04,300
cognizant of everybody's 
feelings. 

571
00:26:04,300 --> 00:26:05,940
But like, you've got to talk 
about things that put on the 

572
00:26:05,940 --> 00:26:07,100
open, otherwise they'll never 
change. 

573
00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:10,580
And so it was fighting a lot of 
that just kind of like, man, I 

574
00:26:10,580 --> 00:26:13,340
don't know. 
And and and I I've got a lot. 

575
00:26:13,380 --> 00:26:15,820
I've got all kinds of things 
multicultural all over the 

576
00:26:15,820 --> 00:26:17,020
place. 
And so I knew that this book. 

577
00:26:17,570 --> 00:26:19,930
Could kind of One could inspire 
a lot of people, which it has 

578
00:26:19,930 --> 00:26:21,610
done, and I've loved the support
of them from that. 

579
00:26:21,930 --> 00:26:24,290
But I also wanted to be very 
clear that I didn't want to 

580
00:26:24,290 --> 00:26:27,490
write it in like to make anybody
else feel bad or or or hurt 

581
00:26:27,490 --> 00:26:28,690
anybody's feelings or pissing 
anybody off. 

582
00:26:28,690 --> 00:26:30,570
But I had to get to the point 
where I was like, well, that's 

583
00:26:30,570 --> 00:26:32,130
okay because I'm talking to a 
specific person. 

584
00:26:32,130 --> 00:26:35,090
And so just in how I crafted the
writing and the stories that I 

585
00:26:35,090 --> 00:26:37,410
was telling to make sure the 
story was come across, that 

586
00:26:37,410 --> 00:26:39,170
really kind of took a while. 
A lot of the editing process and

587
00:26:39,170 --> 00:26:41,290
they're just kind of getting 
through, you know, imposter 

588
00:26:41,290 --> 00:26:43,050
syndrome and like do I really 
want to do this? 

589
00:26:43,130 --> 00:26:44,010
Finally just said, you know 
what? 

590
00:26:44,010 --> 00:26:45,880
I've. 
Than everything else. 

591
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,160
Why not? 
We'll see what happens. 

592
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,920
Yeah, I mean, it seems like you 
you've wrote something about 

593
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,680
your lived experience. 
I think it's one of those things

594
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,320
probably you're probably the 
most qualified person in the 

595
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,520
world when you're writing about 
your own lived experience, 

596
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:01,560
right? 
Yeah. 

597
00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:04,320
Question for you who should read
the book. 

598
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,480
Come on, I'm an author. 
Whatever, everybody should read.

599
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:13,600
The book is for everyone. 
But OK, but specifically, right?

600
00:27:14,610 --> 00:27:18,770
The marketing term coming up 
right The avatar that I created 

601
00:27:18,770 --> 00:27:22,050
this book for all my marketing 
out there will will love that. 

602
00:27:22,250 --> 00:27:25,810
The ICP if you will. 
But I I literally wrote this for

603
00:27:26,130 --> 00:27:31,090
as a love letter and all sense 
of the word to a young you know 

604
00:27:31,170 --> 00:27:33,210
you know black professional 
looking to get into the 

605
00:27:33,210 --> 00:27:35,170
technical space. 
Like somebody who's just now 

606
00:27:35,170 --> 00:27:37,290
coming out of college and maybe 
get into college and saying hey,

607
00:27:37,290 --> 00:27:40,650
I kind of wanted them in tech 
but I don't know because I don't

608
00:27:40,650 --> 00:27:42,730
really see a lot of people that 
look like me which. 

609
00:27:43,260 --> 00:27:45,420
That is a very real thing. 
And then that applies to 

610
00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:46,820
anybody. 
Like if anybody looks at 

611
00:27:46,820 --> 00:27:49,580
something and you don't see 
anything that you can relate to,

612
00:27:49,580 --> 00:27:51,580
it makes it even harder for you 
to think that you can do that. 

613
00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:53,700
And so specifically, that's who 
I aimed it at. 

614
00:27:53,700 --> 00:27:56,460
Like, hey, like this is, this is
what I've learned and this is 

615
00:27:56,460 --> 00:27:57,980
what I've seen in news and 
things, right. 

616
00:27:58,820 --> 00:28:00,740
So that specifically is what I 
wrote it for. 

617
00:28:00,740 --> 00:28:03,340
But in that case, a lot of the 
things that I talk about, the 

618
00:28:03,340 --> 00:28:06,180
stories that I tell, like, I got
a lot of feedback and people was

619
00:28:06,180 --> 00:28:07,140
like, yeah, this can apply to 
anything. 

620
00:28:07,140 --> 00:28:08,880
I was like, yeah, I know. 
Right. 

621
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,520
It there's the secret to a lot 
of this stuff is hey, when you 

622
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,200
really look at it, we're all the
same and we kind of want the 

623
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,560
same things. 
It's like we just have to get 

624
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,640
outside of ourselves for just 
enough to realize that hey, when

625
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,440
we get past everything else and 
we just connect on a human human

626
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,160
basis, wow, Like a lot of the 
stuff applies to all of us. 

627
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,280
But there's a lot of things that
just unspoken there. 

628
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,440
So short story is I would say 
young, black, professional 

629
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,440
looking at good new tactics. 
It's really it's for them. 

630
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,040
But outside of that anybody 
could take something from that 

631
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:37,700
and read it and. 
I wouldn't. 

632
00:28:37,740 --> 00:28:40,540
I would encourage like either 
managers or executives who are 

633
00:28:40,540 --> 00:28:42,540
looking at it and say hey, we're
struggling with diversity here 

634
00:28:42,860 --> 00:28:45,540
to read it and understand like 
again this is 1 person's 

635
00:28:45,540 --> 00:28:49,180
viewpoint, but it kind of gives 
you some kind of purview into 

636
00:28:49,180 --> 00:28:50,820
like okay. 
Maybe This is why. 

637
00:28:51,180 --> 00:28:53,420
Maybe some some of my black 
employees, maybe they feel this 

638
00:28:53,420 --> 00:28:55,420
way okay. 
Maybe we can start working with 

639
00:28:55,420 --> 00:28:58,060
our DII to start addressing some
of these things and see if we 

640
00:28:58,060 --> 00:29:00,500
can make this easier. 
So in that case, that's what I'm

641
00:29:00,500 --> 00:29:01,700
saying. 
I would say anybody read it. 

642
00:29:01,700 --> 00:29:03,260
If you've just been curious, 
someone understand. 

643
00:29:03,260 --> 00:29:05,940
I think it's a great one, but. 
We're going to pick your brain. 

644
00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:10,220
We have David Lee, Identity, 
Jedi, and heck, we all love Star

645
00:29:10,220 --> 00:29:12,380
Trek. 
So make sense. 

646
00:29:13,460 --> 00:29:16,460
That's that's our subscriber 
should. 

647
00:29:16,620 --> 00:29:19,100
I. 
Cancel subscription I mean. 

648
00:29:19,860 --> 00:29:22,100
Don't disconnect them. 
I might hang out myself and I'm 

649
00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:25,460
the host. 
I'm trying to be funny. 

650
00:29:25,740 --> 00:29:28,620
All right. 
Anyway, so I TDR we knew. 

651
00:29:28,620 --> 00:29:32,100
You're hot on that. 
Explain what is ITDR and what 

652
00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:34,190
excites you about it? 
All right. 

653
00:29:34,190 --> 00:29:38,990
So Star Wars, first of all 
because that come on now we got 

654
00:29:38,990 --> 00:29:42,070
to make sure we track that here 
come the track keys anyway. 

655
00:29:42,510 --> 00:29:46,710
But I TDR, identity, threat 
detection and response, I am 

656
00:29:48,190 --> 00:29:49,590
hugely high and excited about 
this. 

657
00:29:49,590 --> 00:29:54,190
And and there's the main reason 
why is that when you break down 

658
00:29:54,190 --> 00:29:56,510
what that means, right. 
So identity threat detection and

659
00:29:56,510 --> 00:29:59,710
response okay. 
So it's this growing kind of 

660
00:29:59,710 --> 00:30:02,870
market space of looking at. 
Threats that that apply to 

661
00:30:02,870 --> 00:30:05,750
identities and how do we detect 
those threats and respond to it.

662
00:30:06,310 --> 00:30:09,230
And it's still kind of early on 
in its quote UN quote market 

663
00:30:09,230 --> 00:30:11,070
phases. 
We've got a couple of different 

664
00:30:11,070 --> 00:30:13,990
companies out there that are 
looking at this area optimized 

665
00:30:14,390 --> 00:30:17,950
or we just get recently acquired
that are all looking at this. 

666
00:30:18,030 --> 00:30:20,990
And the the concept behind it 
which gets me excited is that we

667
00:30:21,150 --> 00:30:24,790
we finally started taking a step
in identity where if you have to

668
00:30:24,830 --> 00:30:27,190
if you take a step back and say 
when identity quote UN quote 

669
00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:29,350
kind of first started, we looked
at it and said it was a huge 

670
00:30:29,350 --> 00:30:32,340
administration problem, right. 
The administrators were 

671
00:30:32,340 --> 00:30:35,460
screaming, listen, I can't tell 
you how many accounts I create. 

672
00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:36,380
I just don't create the 
accounts. 

673
00:30:36,380 --> 00:30:37,820
I don't know where they are. 
I don't know who has access. 

674
00:30:37,820 --> 00:30:39,940
What are you talking about? 
I don't know. 

675
00:30:40,460 --> 00:30:43,300
And so when we started this, we 
just said, okay, we just need to

676
00:30:43,460 --> 00:30:47,100
get a handle around this. 
Let's let's create and automate 

677
00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:48,700
things around this 
administrative burden of 

678
00:30:48,700 --> 00:30:50,580
understanding where all my 
identities are. 

679
00:30:50,940 --> 00:30:53,220
What do they have access to? 
What are things that are driving

680
00:30:53,220 --> 00:30:55,020
that access? 
And how do we manage this 

681
00:30:55,020 --> 00:30:57,740
process of making sure we 
understand how we're giving 

682
00:30:57,740 --> 00:30:59,380
access to everybody and what 
that does. 

683
00:31:00,030 --> 00:31:01,990
That's been the last. 
But seniors, great, We've done 

684
00:31:01,990 --> 00:31:02,630
that. 
Cool. 

685
00:31:03,150 --> 00:31:05,070
But we also wanted to start 
saying, hey, I'm going to use 

686
00:31:05,070 --> 00:31:07,670
part of security and that we've 
given talks. 

687
00:31:07,670 --> 00:31:09,990
Like if we look at the kill 
chain, if Identity Access 

688
00:31:09,990 --> 00:31:13,150
Management Control was involved,
then a lot of the security 

689
00:31:13,510 --> 00:31:15,310
preachers would have been 
stopped. 

690
00:31:15,310 --> 00:31:17,790
We could have prevented them, 
but this whole time, identities 

691
00:31:17,790 --> 00:31:18,830
just kind of been on the 
background. 

692
00:31:18,830 --> 00:31:20,350
It's like, hey, we're just a 
submission of the thing. 

693
00:31:20,350 --> 00:31:22,710
We're we're not actively in the 
fight. 

694
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:25,230
We're just like, hey, well, we 
did everything we're supposed to

695
00:31:25,230 --> 00:31:28,070
do and set it up the right way. 
And after that we're out of it. 

696
00:31:29,030 --> 00:31:32,470
I TDR kind of moves identity 
more towards that security 

697
00:31:32,470 --> 00:31:34,110
operations standpoint. 
It's like Okay, great. 

698
00:31:34,110 --> 00:31:37,230
Well, here are these threats 
that are coming in and So what 

699
00:31:37,230 --> 00:31:40,510
do we do with that? 
We can see that Okay out of your

700
00:31:40,510 --> 00:31:43,510
100 users, 67 of them don't have
MFA configured and we know how 

701
00:31:43,510 --> 00:31:46,070
important MFA is. 
So what do we do about that Or 

702
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:48,430
we're detecting things that are 
like maybe misconfiguration in 

703
00:31:48,430 --> 00:31:51,470
your a WS environments, Okay, 
these persons shouldn't have 

704
00:31:51,470 --> 00:31:53,710
this much access. 
What do we do without that And 

705
00:31:53,710 --> 00:31:57,150
more specifically what I would 
like to see is this as this kind

706
00:31:57,150 --> 00:32:00,180
of continues to go is. 
What are we seeing around the 

707
00:32:00,180 --> 00:32:04,020
threatening identity like just 
like security thinks about okay.

708
00:32:04,180 --> 00:32:06,500
I'm going to pretend like 
whatever I did nothing worked. 

709
00:32:06,540 --> 00:32:07,820
How do I stop you from getting 
it? 

710
00:32:08,060 --> 00:32:11,220
How do I prevent that zero day 
when you get into, when you 

711
00:32:11,220 --> 00:32:13,620
break into an application from 
spreading, how do I protect 

712
00:32:13,620 --> 00:32:15,020
that? 
The same thing we have to do 

713
00:32:15,020 --> 00:32:17,700
with identity Okay. 
So day one it starts. 

714
00:32:17,740 --> 00:32:20,020
We we put everything in place 
but let's say something didn't 

715
00:32:20,020 --> 00:32:22,220
work the right way. 
Some guy did get in and now they

716
00:32:22,220 --> 00:32:25,500
want to go and get access to you
know the admin accounts are 

717
00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:27,340
creating things. 
What do we do to make sure that 

718
00:32:27,340 --> 00:32:30,880
doesn't happen? 
And that to me is a much more 

719
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,240
active conversation and 
involvement. 

720
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,400
We've got all this great data in
context within Identity Systems 

721
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,040
and we have all these controls 
that we can now start to 

722
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:40,680
automate and make sure they're a
part of it. 

723
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,640
Because if you look at it just 
simply as simple as taking your 

724
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,560
IM system, right. 
So let's, I'll be very close. 

725
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,760
Let's look at your SSO system. 
So you've got everything set up 

726
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,240
for SSO, let's connect that to 
your IGA system and say okay, we

727
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,080
know how we're going to 
provision things and what they 

728
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,380
need to be and. 
We had a separation of duties 

729
00:32:56,380 --> 00:32:57,180
and policies. 
Great. 

730
00:32:57,180 --> 00:33:00,180
And that matches my SSO. 
Now tie that with your IGM 

731
00:33:00,180 --> 00:33:03,420
system and then sorry your Pam 
system for when somebody wants 

732
00:33:03,420 --> 00:33:05,660
to go get access to a privilege 
access account. 

733
00:33:05,860 --> 00:33:07,460
All three of those are talking 
and connected. 

734
00:33:07,460 --> 00:33:10,220
Then at any given time if 
anything gets out of whack, the 

735
00:33:10,220 --> 00:33:12,780
three of those are kind of 
working in in conjunction to 

736
00:33:12,780 --> 00:33:15,940
make sure that doesn't happen. 
That's really just if you look 

737
00:33:15,940 --> 00:33:18,900
at the core, but that's ITDR 
right okay like here's how we're

738
00:33:18,900 --> 00:33:21,500
going to apply these things to 
make sure responded to the 

739
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:23,860
threat so. 
That to me, and I've always 

740
00:33:23,860 --> 00:33:26,660
wanted identity to have a much 
more active say in security 

741
00:33:26,660 --> 00:33:28,740
conversations. 
And so that's what excites me 

742
00:33:28,740 --> 00:33:30,580
about it. 
It's the type of conversations 

743
00:33:30,580 --> 00:33:32,260
and what you're bringing to 
identity teams. 

744
00:33:32,260 --> 00:33:34,420
And as they're now talking to 
security teams and saying, hey, 

745
00:33:34,940 --> 00:33:36,820
we're sending you not only 
telemetry data, but there's 

746
00:33:36,820 --> 00:33:38,460
things that we're seeing that we
can start doing. 

747
00:33:38,660 --> 00:33:42,340
How can we work with you as you 
guys are tracking down incidents

748
00:33:42,340 --> 00:33:43,700
and you're stopping things from 
coming in. 

749
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:45,840
Let's make sure we're sharing 
with you how that's connected to

750
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,720
any identity, right? 
So if somebody gets breaching, 

751
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,160
gets to the server, hey, we can 
tell you, here's everybody that 

752
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,880
has access to the server, how 
they have access to these groups

753
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,680
and here's how the provisions 
ain't no problem, we can do 

754
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,200
responses on our side to make 
sure that, hey, even though we 

755
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,000
didn't stop them getting known 
and they got to the database 

756
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,360
server, like we can really 
quickly mitigate like how far 

757
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,600
they can get. 
So I feel like and tell me if 

758
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,440
this is fair, but I've said this
before in previous episodes that

759
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,880
I feel like I TDR is sort of 
UBA. 

760
00:34:12,730 --> 00:34:15,570
UEBA, the user behavior 
analysis, User and entity 

761
00:34:15,570 --> 00:34:21,050
behavior analysis of like a 
decade ago and is that one, is 

762
00:34:21,050 --> 00:34:23,570
that fair And two why do you 
think that is? 

763
00:34:23,570 --> 00:34:27,130
Is it because we have more 
maturity when it comes to 

764
00:34:27,130 --> 00:34:30,010
identity within enterprises 
where thou that data is actually

765
00:34:30,010 --> 00:34:31,570
available and now we can 
actually do stuff? 

766
00:34:31,570 --> 00:34:33,570
With it. 
So I would say it's the. 

767
00:34:34,730 --> 00:34:36,170
The only thing that would 
different with you sort of say, 

768
00:34:36,170 --> 00:34:38,690
I would say it's the concept of 
what we wanted to do with UEVA 

769
00:34:38,690 --> 00:34:41,530
from a decade ago, right. 
The whole reason why we wanted 

770
00:34:41,530 --> 00:34:44,530
to understand activity of the 
user so we could know and have a

771
00:34:44,530 --> 00:34:46,250
better understanding of okay, 
here's this access. 

772
00:34:46,250 --> 00:34:48,770
But like what are you really 
doing with it, right? 

773
00:34:49,210 --> 00:34:51,929
Because with Identity so far, we
knew how to model the access and

774
00:34:51,929 --> 00:34:53,730
say here you go, okay, great, 
you're going to have these 

775
00:34:53,730 --> 00:34:54,770
things. 
What does that mean? 

776
00:34:54,770 --> 00:34:57,610
What do you do with it? 
Like how how much do you access 

777
00:34:57,610 --> 00:34:58,810
this? 
And when you log into it, how 

778
00:34:58,810 --> 00:35:00,970
long are you logging in? 
And so that was what we're 

779
00:35:00,970 --> 00:35:05,070
trying to do with UVA and I. 
The, the second part of the 

780
00:35:05,070 --> 00:35:07,990
answer is like why, why now and 
why didn't it work then? 

781
00:35:08,190 --> 00:35:11,310
I don't think it's the data that
we have now is the same amount 

782
00:35:11,310 --> 00:35:13,870
of data we had back then. 
I think connectivity is a little

783
00:35:13,870 --> 00:35:15,750
better, right. 
More standards is coming in and 

784
00:35:15,750 --> 00:35:18,030
so we can connect, it's easier 
to connect to these different 

785
00:35:18,030 --> 00:35:19,430
applications and kind of send 
data across. 

786
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:22,390
I think that has improved. 
But I also think honestly think 

787
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:24,950
it's a mindset from a maturity 
standpoint, a customer has 

788
00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:27,150
gotten a little bit more 
advanced and smarter and 

789
00:35:27,150 --> 00:35:30,550
understanding without it's right
for identity for the longest 

790
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:32,790
time. 
We were dragging the customer to

791
00:35:32,790 --> 00:35:34,990
understand what the value was 
and kind of getting them there 

792
00:35:35,230 --> 00:35:38,110
and all they wanted to do was 
pass their audits and make sure 

793
00:35:38,110 --> 00:35:40,470
people could single song like 
I'm done, right. 

794
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:43,230
They just they didn't really 
want to dig in and see the value

795
00:35:43,230 --> 00:35:46,430
of all the other things. 
I think we we passed that mark. 

796
00:35:46,470 --> 00:35:47,710
We're only dragging the 
customer. 

797
00:35:47,710 --> 00:35:48,950
The customer gets it, the got 
it. 

798
00:35:48,950 --> 00:35:52,550
And we understand yes my audits,
but like also there's other 

799
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:55,150
things that I can be doing here 
Okay and now that they're ready 

800
00:35:55,150 --> 00:35:57,390
to kind of have those 
conversations and customers are 

801
00:35:57,390 --> 00:35:59,990
leading those conversations. 
Now I think that's why it's, 

802
00:35:59,990 --> 00:36:03,150
it's starting to hit it home a 
little bit more, right, because 

803
00:36:03,150 --> 00:36:05,390
we can kind of use this and say 
like we can actually start 

804
00:36:05,390 --> 00:36:07,150
putting this into action and 
doing some things. 

805
00:36:07,470 --> 00:36:10,550
And so yeah, I I think it's 
going to be interesting to see 

806
00:36:10,550 --> 00:36:13,830
how those, some of those, you 
know UEBA kind of vendors from 

807
00:36:13,830 --> 00:36:16,430
the past like I'm really 
surprised they haven't jumped 

808
00:36:16,430 --> 00:36:18,910
all over this, right, because 
they they kind of already have 

809
00:36:18,910 --> 00:36:20,430
set up the interesting things to
do. 

810
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:23,230
So we'll it'll be interesting to
see if we start to hear them 

811
00:36:23,230 --> 00:36:25,190
talk about this in the next, you
know coming months. 

812
00:36:26,450 --> 00:36:28,890
You know, I can't. 
I've said this before on past 

813
00:36:28,890 --> 00:36:33,650
episodes, and I think this is 
the next major thing in 

814
00:36:33,690 --> 00:36:37,410
identity, because we always 
thought of identity as who has 

815
00:36:37,410 --> 00:36:40,530
access to what. 
But I think it's then and what 

816
00:36:40,530 --> 00:36:43,290
are they doing with it? 
And you see this in the Kim 

817
00:36:43,290 --> 00:36:47,410
space, right, where it's like 
we're trying to remove any 

818
00:36:47,410 --> 00:36:50,130
unnecessary privileges, so we 
get to at least privilege. 

819
00:36:50,130 --> 00:36:54,370
So give an account these roles. 
Have they used those roles? 

820
00:36:54,530 --> 00:36:56,780
If not? 
Remove those roles. 

821
00:36:57,060 --> 00:37:01,740
I think it's, if you can apply 
that to your entire identity 

822
00:37:01,780 --> 00:37:05,900
infrastructure that takes a ton 
of data and a ton of ability to 

823
00:37:05,900 --> 00:37:09,060
process data. 
I don't think we're there yet. 

824
00:37:09,340 --> 00:37:12,260
But to me, like that was the 
promise of the UBA. 

825
00:37:12,620 --> 00:37:18,540
I just think that it was based 
on a reality that isn't reality,

826
00:37:18,540 --> 00:37:20,020
right. 
We don't have all those logs 

827
00:37:20,020 --> 00:37:22,380
available. 
We can't process big data in 

828
00:37:22,380 --> 00:37:25,420
that way with the tools we have.
So let's pivot, because I want 

829
00:37:25,420 --> 00:37:29,180
to talk about what's happening 
in this, this old piece of 

830
00:37:29,180 --> 00:37:31,700
technology called Azure Active 
Directory. 

831
00:37:32,860 --> 00:37:35,100
We've got this new thing called 
Microsoft Entra. 

832
00:37:35,100 --> 00:37:37,300
I mean, for, you know, for 
veterans of the industry who 

833
00:37:37,300 --> 00:37:39,780
have been around since Azure 
Active Directory was around, 

834
00:37:40,580 --> 00:37:42,380
we've now got this thing called 
Microsoft Entra. 

835
00:37:42,940 --> 00:37:45,420
What is Microsoft doing with 
Entra? 

836
00:37:47,420 --> 00:37:54,830
So what I hope they're doing is.
Finally figuring out that, hey, 

837
00:37:55,710 --> 00:38:01,430
we're Microsoft and we've got 
every single connection point to

838
00:38:01,430 --> 00:38:07,030
kind of create this nice 
comprehensive solution for truly

839
00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:09,470
managing access within the 
environment, like from something

840
00:38:09,470 --> 00:38:10,630
else, like we can kind of do it 
all. 

841
00:38:12,190 --> 00:38:15,030
I think they're trying to lean 
into that. 

842
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:19,870
The reason I'm hesitant is 
because it's this isn't the 

843
00:38:19,870 --> 00:38:21,110
first time that they've done 
that. 

844
00:38:21,110 --> 00:38:24,310
Like, this is like the fifth or 
sixth time we've seen them kind 

845
00:38:24,310 --> 00:38:26,670
of, like get something 
rebranded, hey, and we're like, 

846
00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:28,150
oh wait, Microsoft's finally 
getting it. 

847
00:38:28,150 --> 00:38:29,310
And then we're like, no, right, 
No. 

848
00:38:29,710 --> 00:38:30,910
Someone is like a template. 
Right. 

849
00:38:31,310 --> 00:38:33,670
Find and replace old name, put 
new name. 

850
00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:34,910
There's like no new 
functionality. 

851
00:38:34,910 --> 00:38:37,190
So for people who aren't aware, 
like Microsoft just recently 

852
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:40,630
announced as of time recording 
that now there's this thing 

853
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:43,750
called Microsoft Entra and the 
idea is that it's basically just

854
00:38:43,750 --> 00:38:46,270
a name change. 
For Azure Active Directory, 

855
00:38:46,270 --> 00:38:48,910
which OK, fine, you know, 
whatever. 

856
00:38:49,710 --> 00:38:52,670
I can understand the confusion. 
When you say AD, the next 

857
00:38:52,670 --> 00:38:54,630
question is, well, what do you 
mean is it you're on Prime AD or

858
00:38:54,630 --> 00:38:59,350
Azure AD, OK, that'll help, but 
AD is AD and now you've got 

859
00:38:59,350 --> 00:39:01,710
Microsoft Entra. 
So is that me? 

860
00:39:02,150 --> 00:39:04,950
And now I think of is that 
Windows me the not well. 

861
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:07,030
Received. 
Windows that was out there. 

862
00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:10,710
So yeah, I mean, right now it 
seems to me as I kind of, you 

863
00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:12,470
know, I don't have any inside 
information, but. 

864
00:39:12,940 --> 00:39:16,060
I read articles just like 
everyone else does and it just 

865
00:39:16,060 --> 00:39:17,860
seems like a name change and 
that's it. 

866
00:39:18,460 --> 00:39:24,700
So it's a name change, but also 
it is unfolding the work that 

867
00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:29,140
they've been doing with their 
verifiable credential work that 

868
00:39:29,140 --> 00:39:31,220
they've been doing, a lot of 
things they've been doing around

869
00:39:31,220 --> 00:39:34,460
like their activity protection 
services that has always kind of

870
00:39:34,460 --> 00:39:36,180
been there, but they're trying 
to highlight that a little bit 

871
00:39:36,220 --> 00:39:39,060
more. 
So and that's why I'm hesitating

872
00:39:39,060 --> 00:39:40,650
cuz, yeah. 
They, they made this big press 

873
00:39:40,650 --> 00:39:42,730
release and it's like, oh, it's 
now this and it's a name chain. 

874
00:39:42,730 --> 00:39:43,850
It's like, all right, but you 
didn't. 

875
00:39:43,850 --> 00:39:45,890
And now we're including all 
these things like. 

876
00:39:45,890 --> 00:39:48,170
So the stuff that you already 
had that's kind of been there, 

877
00:39:48,170 --> 00:39:51,250
you're not including. 
It's all intra great what I'm 

878
00:39:51,250 --> 00:39:53,370
waiting to see next and it could
be out there. 

879
00:39:53,370 --> 00:39:56,610
So if this is out there, who are
Microsoft lovers out there? 

880
00:39:56,610 --> 00:39:58,690
And it's like there's this blog 
right now, we'll talk about, I'm

881
00:39:58,690 --> 00:40:01,490
sorry, I haven't already yet, 
but there could be data out 

882
00:40:01,490 --> 00:40:02,490
there. 
What I wanted to see from there 

883
00:40:02,490 --> 00:40:06,090
was like okay, This is what we 
see within the Microsoft Intra, 

884
00:40:06,210 --> 00:40:08,170
you know, network, whatever 
they're going to call it. 

885
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,640
Like, here's how you connect all
these dots and make this happen.

886
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:13,480
But they've had it for such a 
long time, right? 

887
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,880
So I'm cautiously optimistic 
that maybe we'll see some of 

888
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,440
that coming out. 
I do know that it's done enough,

889
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,560
right, that I've talked to a 
couple of friends of mine who 

890
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,040
are also consultants and kind of
talking to customers where it's 

891
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,920
causing customers to do a pause 
and say, hey, well, let's maybe 

892
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,360
in this side box, let's see what
Microsoft has to do there. 

893
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,460
Because I mean. 
They've always had the most 

894
00:40:33,460 --> 00:40:35,620
compelling use case to make it 
to anybody, right? 

895
00:40:35,620 --> 00:40:38,180
It's like okay. 
Well, why go buy anything when I

896
00:40:38,180 --> 00:40:40,340
can? 
I got outlook, I use the, I got 

897
00:40:40,380 --> 00:40:42,740
a DI got all this stuff. 
I'm just going to stay right 

898
00:40:42,740 --> 00:40:43,820
here. 
And if you tell me that I can 

899
00:40:43,820 --> 00:40:47,460
package all that into an E5 or 
E6 or whatever license, I mean 

900
00:40:47,460 --> 00:40:50,020
procurement just got easier like
manual just got easier like 

901
00:40:50,060 --> 00:40:52,460
everything just right there. 
And I know a couple of 

902
00:40:52,460 --> 00:40:54,740
organizations that are that are 
just there die, they're going to

903
00:40:54,740 --> 00:40:57,020
do that. 
But it's just Microsoft was 

904
00:40:57,020 --> 00:40:59,700
never delivered on the rest of 
the features, right. 

905
00:40:59,700 --> 00:41:02,100
They just they've never really 
either. 

906
00:41:02,610 --> 00:41:04,330
I don't wanna say they didn't 
care about identity, but it 

907
00:41:04,330 --> 00:41:07,290
didn't seem like it. 
They just they don't seem to dig

908
00:41:07,290 --> 00:41:10,010
to dive deep into identity. 
They just say hey e-mail will do

909
00:41:10,010 --> 00:41:12,730
protection will do. 
This will be great cool like. 

910
00:41:13,090 --> 00:41:15,130
They. 
Tried governance for 10 years 

911
00:41:15,130 --> 00:41:18,010
and just can't get right. 
They have good solutions and 

912
00:41:18,010 --> 00:41:19,890
it's like most things, right? 
Once you follow the sweet spot 

913
00:41:19,890 --> 00:41:22,970
of Microsoft, typically that's 
where the cracks start to show 

914
00:41:22,970 --> 00:41:25,210
through and it's a very captive 
audience. 

915
00:41:25,210 --> 00:41:27,490
It's the same question that I 
always get as well. 

916
00:41:27,490 --> 00:41:29,810
Why would you buy something else
if you're looking at 

917
00:41:29,810 --> 00:41:32,090
authentication and you're 
already a 365 customer? 

918
00:41:32,490 --> 00:41:35,410
You're already paying for it. 
Probably quick side note, 

919
00:41:35,410 --> 00:41:37,290
because I know we're going to 
talk about AI a little bit 

920
00:41:37,290 --> 00:41:39,410
later, but I don't know if you 
saw recently the pricing that 

921
00:41:39,410 --> 00:41:41,370
they've announced for Microsoft 
Copilot. 

922
00:41:41,850 --> 00:41:44,370
They want to basically double 
the price of licensing. 

923
00:41:44,370 --> 00:41:48,530
It's another $30 per user per 
month to use all the AI features

924
00:41:48,530 --> 00:41:51,170
they've been developing. 
So this is quickly going to 

925
00:41:51,170 --> 00:41:53,890
become a very expensive space 
and I'm sure you know they'll 

926
00:41:53,890 --> 00:41:55,330
make money off it just like 
anything else. 

927
00:41:55,330 --> 00:41:58,530
But yeah, it is not cheap to 
operate in the cloud. 

928
00:41:59,370 --> 00:42:01,090
Interesting. 
Yeah. 

929
00:42:01,090 --> 00:42:05,010
I was just wondering like if 
Microsoft can deliver on the 

930
00:42:05,010 --> 00:42:07,810
governance. 
I I agree with everything David 

931
00:42:07,810 --> 00:42:11,170
said, everything you said, Jeff,
if they do deliver, do they run 

932
00:42:11,170 --> 00:42:13,130
the table? 
I think the answer is probably 

933
00:42:13,130 --> 00:42:15,330
no, they don't probably run the 
table. 

934
00:42:15,610 --> 00:42:18,930
But I think would be great 
though is if the features that 

935
00:42:18,930 --> 00:42:22,610
make up governance now become 
available to the lower middle 

936
00:42:22,610 --> 00:42:27,050
market small businesses that 
basically can't afford identity 

937
00:42:27,050 --> 00:42:29,650
governance at this point. 
And I wonder if it's like air 

938
00:42:29,650 --> 00:42:31,650
conditioning, right? 
Used to be a luxury item and 

939
00:42:31,650 --> 00:42:34,930
then it got cheaper and cheaper 
and came down like, you know, I,

940
00:42:35,370 --> 00:42:38,410
my first car had roll windows, 
You know, now when you say I'm 

941
00:42:38,410 --> 00:42:40,410
going to roll my window down and
was like, you're really just 

942
00:42:40,410 --> 00:42:42,370
pushing a button. 
But hey, we're old school. 

943
00:42:42,370 --> 00:42:43,450
We know what we're talking 
about, right? 

944
00:42:43,450 --> 00:42:46,050
So maybe at some point, yeah, 
there is that kind of trickle 

945
00:42:46,050 --> 00:42:48,570
down. 
Let's move on because I want to 

946
00:42:48,570 --> 00:42:54,330
talk about Thanos, I mean, to my
Bravo and all of the identity 

947
00:42:54,330 --> 00:42:57,450
companies that they are 
collecting into their Infinity 

948
00:42:57,450 --> 00:42:59,600
Gauntlet. 
What? 

949
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:01,440
What do you think? 
Like what's going on with Tomo 

950
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,640
Bravo? 
Is it truly an Infinity Gauntlet

951
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,480
situation or do you see it more 
of a Pokémon situation where 

952
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,520
they have a bunch? 
Of you guys talking about, I 

953
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,200
don't even know what these 
things are. 

954
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,640
Nerds talking, Jim, just just go
back on you what? 

955
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,280
Podcast Am I on? 
What do you think, David? 

956
00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:24,080
So I'm going with my I'm going 
with my, my, my initial gut 

957
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:25,920
instinct, which I think it's 
much more. 

958
00:43:26,300 --> 00:43:27,900
Of a Danos Infinity Gauntlet 
thing. 

959
00:43:29,220 --> 00:43:34,420
Although I've I've made the case
that it could be just a Pokémon 

960
00:43:34,420 --> 00:43:36,380
of a I just want to catch. 
I just wanted I'm just going to 

961
00:43:36,380 --> 00:43:39,900
grab up all of these and get as 
as much get them as efficient 

962
00:43:40,220 --> 00:43:43,500
and as profitable as possible 
and I'll see which one wins, 

963
00:43:43,580 --> 00:43:44,900
right? 
And guess what? 

964
00:43:44,900 --> 00:43:47,660
Like I've got all of them and 
the time they bought them I 

965
00:43:47,660 --> 00:43:50,380
bought them at a discount. 
So either way I kind of win. 

966
00:43:50,740 --> 00:43:53,980
But I really think though and 
and the reason why I think it's 

967
00:43:53,980 --> 00:43:55,900
more than the Infinity Gauntlet 
is because. 

968
00:43:56,250 --> 00:44:01,050
Of an interview that they put 
out on a podcast was it was I'm 

969
00:44:01,050 --> 00:44:03,250
going to it was one of the main 
partners and I I don't remember 

970
00:44:03,250 --> 00:44:07,010
saying well I must say wrong and
he talked about their whole 

971
00:44:07,010 --> 00:44:08,890
process with sell Point and why 
they came back and bought sell 

972
00:44:08,890 --> 00:44:13,490
point again and how much they 
learned about the identity 

973
00:44:13,490 --> 00:44:14,930
security market from working 
with sell Point. 

974
00:44:14,930 --> 00:44:17,210
Sell Point was their first 
venture into that market. 

975
00:44:17,610 --> 00:44:19,970
It was super successful. 
Then they took him out IPO. 

976
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,480
And so they wanted, they saw 
like growth again, they want to 

977
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,320
come back in. 
And so listen, investors don't 

978
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,600
make money by not being greedy 
like you know what I mean? 

979
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,200
So it's like they're looking at 
this and going, OK, well, how we

980
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,120
did it, oh boy, man, rest of 
these are kind of on sale right 

981
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,480
now. 
Let's go gobble them up and do 

982
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,560
something again. 
And and now they're much more 

983
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:41,640
attuned to where the market is 
going. 

984
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,760
So the shortage of the way I 
think they're doing is I do 

985
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,520
think they're going to look at 
this and and have this different

986
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,360
technology and pay attention to 
over the next five years where's

987
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,540
this market going to go. 
And I've got enough IP that A, 

988
00:44:52,540 --> 00:44:55,500
if I need to put together my 
quote, UN quote Infinity dollar 

989
00:44:55,500 --> 00:44:58,380
and create an identity security 
platform, I've got all the 

990
00:44:58,380 --> 00:45:02,100
pieces to do it right. 
It'll be ugly like. 

991
00:45:02,140 --> 00:45:03,980
And I mean ugly from like how 
they're going to have to do it 

992
00:45:03,980 --> 00:45:06,340
like okay, we're going to chop 
this and have chop this and have

993
00:45:06,340 --> 00:45:09,300
you go over here like it's not 
going to be pretty what what 

994
00:45:09,300 --> 00:45:11,700
comes out of that thing from 
what they're going to have to 

995
00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:13,540
cut to go do it. 
But they have the assets, they 

996
00:45:13,540 --> 00:45:17,700
actually go do it. 
And so I just think that when we

997
00:45:17,700 --> 00:45:19,660
look at these PE firms, right, 
you're talking. 

998
00:45:20,180 --> 00:45:22,620
At minimum, 7 to 10X is what 
they're looking for. 

999
00:45:22,620 --> 00:45:25,860
Like that's the only return that
I can see for them doing that. 

1000
00:45:26,780 --> 00:45:29,060
I don't see them taking these 
companies and holding them and 

1001
00:45:29,060 --> 00:45:30,940
go, we're just going to turn in 
the cash cows or just hold them 

1002
00:45:32,060 --> 00:45:34,220
okay. 
But that's not what you do like 

1003
00:45:34,500 --> 00:45:37,860
you look for big returns, right.
So I do think at some point 

1004
00:45:37,860 --> 00:45:41,780
we're going to start seeing 
everybody to the opinion sell 

1005
00:45:41,780 --> 00:45:43,700
point that kind of makes the 
most sense because their 

1006
00:45:43,700 --> 00:45:46,620
customer bases are similar. 
But I think what they're waiting

1007
00:45:46,620 --> 00:45:49,620
to see is how this next kind of 
technology term of what happens 

1008
00:45:49,620 --> 00:45:52,100
over the next two years and 
where they need to augment that 

1009
00:45:52,140 --> 00:45:53,540
with, right. 
I don't know, I haven't. 

1010
00:45:53,620 --> 00:45:55,900
I stopped following for a while.
I know there's some things with 

1011
00:45:55,900 --> 00:45:58,380
Ford Rock that I haven't quite 
closed yet, but at some point 

1012
00:45:58,380 --> 00:46:01,140
that'll close what they're 
missing from there. 

1013
00:46:01,260 --> 00:46:04,540
And and and this is what I would
say you, you definitely know 

1014
00:46:04,540 --> 00:46:07,100
they're going towards Infinity 
outlet, look at their next 

1015
00:46:07,100 --> 00:46:10,740
purchase, right, if they 
purchase something either in. 

1016
00:46:12,020 --> 00:46:14,420
Let's say cuz they get 
orchestration with with Ping and

1017
00:46:14,420 --> 00:46:17,260
Da Vinci and they get some Ford 
like if they look at something 

1018
00:46:17,260 --> 00:46:19,860
more towards the security space,
something like a a Kim 

1019
00:46:20,180 --> 00:46:23,540
management or even like they go 
by one of these like smaller 

1020
00:46:23,540 --> 00:46:26,300
IGDR companies. 
If you see a purchase of their 

1021
00:46:26,340 --> 00:46:28,300
that, that's typically and 
that's exactly where they're 

1022
00:46:28,300 --> 00:46:30,940
going, right? 
Like so it's their next kind of 

1023
00:46:30,940 --> 00:46:33,500
one or two purchases for me that
are going to like really tip the

1024
00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:35,380
head of where they're going. 
Because they've made this 

1025
00:46:35,380 --> 00:46:37,500
person, they've kind of done 
silent, which I mean, look, they

1026
00:46:37,540 --> 00:46:39,660
just spent what, what was it 
like, $14 billion? 

1027
00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:41,100
I'm like, all right, look, 
there's a lot of money. 

1028
00:46:41,660 --> 00:46:44,140
You bought a lot of things. 
Go play with your toys. 

1029
00:46:44,140 --> 00:46:46,980
But there is they're building 
something. 

1030
00:46:47,060 --> 00:46:49,700
I just, it just doesn't. 
I can't see them. 

1031
00:46:49,700 --> 00:46:51,940
Not like what? 
Why do you get into P/E? 

1032
00:46:52,500 --> 00:46:54,740
How do you get it to nuts off 
all of it if you don't comply 

1033
00:46:54,740 --> 00:46:56,580
with something and say, I can 
take this and then put it out 

1034
00:46:56,900 --> 00:46:59,500
and tell it is that much more? 
That's the only possible path I 

1035
00:46:59,500 --> 00:47:01,700
see. 
Interesting conversation. 

1036
00:47:01,980 --> 00:47:06,620
I I didn't know what an Infinity
Gauntlet was or Athano's, but I 

1037
00:47:06,620 --> 00:47:08,900
kind of figured out what you 
guys are talking about. 

1038
00:47:08,900 --> 00:47:10,260
It's like. 
We'll get off your don't worry 

1039
00:47:10,260 --> 00:47:11,700
about it. 
That's right. 

1040
00:47:11,740 --> 00:47:14,580
They're going to get, they're 
going to get their money because

1041
00:47:14,580 --> 00:47:19,260
that my analogy was they bought 
3 super cars and they could kind

1042
00:47:19,260 --> 00:47:22,380
of like take the best of each 
car and like build one really 

1043
00:47:22,380 --> 00:47:26,770
super, super car or. 
They could just keep the three 

1044
00:47:26,770 --> 00:47:29,930
cars, wait a little while and 
sell them for more money than 

1045
00:47:29,930 --> 00:47:33,210
they paid. 
Either way, they probably win. 

1046
00:47:34,290 --> 00:47:39,410
So I don't think nobody's going 
to get on on a podcast and say, 

1047
00:47:39,410 --> 00:47:41,930
like, hey, I'm from home row and
this is what we're doing. 

1048
00:47:42,090 --> 00:47:44,850
So we're all just sitting here 
like, you know, thinking about 

1049
00:47:44,850 --> 00:47:47,410
like, okay, what might we do if 
we were playing with billions of

1050
00:47:47,410 --> 00:47:51,220
dollars of identity companies? 
I'd probably challenge another 

1051
00:47:51,220 --> 00:47:53,380
billionaire to a wrestling match
or page matches. 

1052
00:47:53,780 --> 00:47:55,460
That's just me. 
Hey, that's just me. 

1053
00:47:55,460 --> 00:47:58,340
I don't know, you know? 
So, so David, do you have a 

1054
00:47:58,340 --> 00:48:03,740
winner in that in that UFC fight
between Zuck and Elon? 

1055
00:48:04,380 --> 00:48:08,100
Look, man, I I do. 
And it and it and it changed 

1056
00:48:08,100 --> 00:48:09,300
just recently. 
And I'm gonna tell you what 

1057
00:48:09,300 --> 00:48:10,580
changed. 
What did you saw that picture? 

1058
00:48:11,100 --> 00:48:15,820
Yeah buddy, cuz like Israel, I 
can never pronounce his last 

1059
00:48:15,820 --> 00:48:17,910
name like. 
That dude's no joke, right? 

1060
00:48:17,910 --> 00:48:21,030
Like, so if you were, and it 
could have just been a promotion

1061
00:48:21,030 --> 00:48:23,670
picture. 
But like, dude, I'm looking at 

1062
00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:26,430
like, dude shredding. 
Like, if you did any kind of 

1063
00:48:26,430 --> 00:48:29,150
training at all with these guys,
like, just kept up with them for

1064
00:48:29,150 --> 00:48:31,270
a practice round. 
I'm like, dude, that's. 

1065
00:48:33,190 --> 00:48:37,110
And Elon, I'm with you, man. 
His workout routine is reaching 

1066
00:48:37,110 --> 00:48:41,420
for the next, so I. 
I think that exactly right. 

1067
00:48:41,420 --> 00:48:44,620
You see, like the stats of 
Elon's taller, he's kind of got 

1068
00:48:44,620 --> 00:48:48,220
a little bit of attitude, but 
Zack just looks like a fighter. 

1069
00:48:48,700 --> 00:48:50,620
I I didn't think that. 
Like when you see him with his 

1070
00:48:50,620 --> 00:48:53,180
clothes on, he just looks like 
Joe Average. 

1071
00:48:53,660 --> 00:48:56,820
But man, that guy's ready to 
fight. 

1072
00:48:57,860 --> 00:49:01,620
Next question. 
So you know, thinking of the IGA

1073
00:49:01,620 --> 00:49:05,580
space seems pretty clear. 
Yeah, sailplane and savient, 

1074
00:49:06,100 --> 00:49:10,360
they're wanting to. 
Who in your mind is #3? 

1075
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,680
And obviously we had the whole 
Microsoft conversation, so don't

1076
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,680
we sure answer by using them. 
But who do you think might shake

1077
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,640
it up? 
So I I don't think there's a 

1078
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,880
clear number three. 
I think once, once after you 

1079
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,320
leave those two, it comes down 
to like you know, customer size,

1080
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,040
profits and things like that and
there's a number of them that 

1081
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,840
you can look at. 
What I will say is like who I 

1082
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:32,760
think has the potential to 
really shake it up to be honest 

1083
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,880
is is Octa and I don't know if 
they will or not. 

1084
00:49:37,380 --> 00:49:40,700
But they but they have a chance.
Their IGA product has been, it's

1085
00:49:40,700 --> 00:49:43,460
been interesting and also like 
almost two years ago now and I 

1086
00:49:43,940 --> 00:49:45,420
still haven't really seen much 
from it. 

1087
00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:49,700
But their ability of what 
they're going to be able to do 

1088
00:49:49,740 --> 00:49:54,020
from a perspective of not only 
from with their IGA, their 

1089
00:49:54,020 --> 00:49:55,980
access certifications. 
They'll they'll automatically 

1090
00:49:55,980 --> 00:49:57,460
have like activity and usage 
data. 

1091
00:49:57,460 --> 00:50:00,660
Like they'll be able to give you
a much deeper understanding of 

1092
00:50:00,900 --> 00:50:03,740
not only what Access is, but how
it's being used and kind of more

1093
00:50:03,740 --> 00:50:05,380
closer real time. 
And I think it's going to be a 

1094
00:50:05,380 --> 00:50:06,700
game changer for a lot of 
people. 

1095
00:50:08,330 --> 00:50:11,370
I I like some kind of up and 
comers. 

1096
00:50:11,610 --> 00:50:14,970
Visa is a company that assembled
across a couple of weeks ago. 

1097
00:50:14,970 --> 00:50:16,930
I kind of really like what 
they're doing and how they're 

1098
00:50:16,930 --> 00:50:24,050
going after it. 
Zilla security what's the I can 

1099
00:50:24,090 --> 00:50:27,130
I can see the other company 
actually it's going to kill me 

1100
00:50:27,170 --> 00:50:28,450
because we talk about it all the
time. 

1101
00:50:28,810 --> 00:50:31,770
There's another one you would 
test there we go and you would 

1102
00:50:31,770 --> 00:50:34,930
test is another one like there's
these nice little kind of small.

1103
00:50:35,530 --> 00:50:37,970
Smaller companies that are that 
are a lot more focused and 

1104
00:50:37,970 --> 00:50:41,330
they're focusing on making sure 
that from an IGA perspective 

1105
00:50:41,970 --> 00:50:43,330
kind of have me focus on access 
search. 

1106
00:50:43,330 --> 00:50:44,850
So I'm like okay, there's more 
to it than that. 

1107
00:50:44,850 --> 00:50:47,450
But that's that's the hairiest 
part. 

1108
00:50:47,690 --> 00:50:50,130
With an IGA product like if you 
ever implemented it like those 

1109
00:50:50,130 --> 00:50:51,370
are things that just take 
forever. 

1110
00:50:52,050 --> 00:50:54,050
They're fact, they're really 
focused on automating that and 

1111
00:50:54,050 --> 00:50:55,970
making that easier. 
So I think you've got a handful 

1112
00:50:55,970 --> 00:50:58,450
of players there once you pass 
like save it that you can tend 

1113
00:50:58,450 --> 00:50:59,610
to choose from, you kind of pull
together. 

1114
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,040
But I if I had to put my money 
on something, I was like I just 

1115
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,600
got the biggest chance to really
kind of shake up that market 

1116
00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:10,560
because they can quickly give 
you kind of like what you know a

1117
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,120
Gardner kind of calls a 
converged I AM right. 

1118
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,640
They've got enough pieces to 
quickly put that together and 

1119
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:16,760
get you a good offering for 
that. 

1120
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,560
And they don't like, it's like 
they don't have to do much to 

1121
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,680
get it there right, like their 
IGA product doesn't have to be 

1122
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,120
stellar, it just has to be 
functional. 

1123
00:51:28,530 --> 00:51:30,130
And they've got everything else 
they're going to make it happen.

1124
00:51:30,490 --> 00:51:33,850
So it's so it's surprising me to
see that that just hasn't taken 

1125
00:51:33,850 --> 00:51:37,410
off. 
So I'm, I'm watching that one. 

1126
00:51:37,410 --> 00:51:39,290
We're kind of made it graph to 
see how they come out. 

1127
00:51:39,370 --> 00:51:42,690
That's what's, yeah, that's a 
really cool answer and it's 

1128
00:51:42,690 --> 00:51:45,410
interesting. 
I was bouncing back to the 

1129
00:51:45,410 --> 00:51:50,770
Cooper Coal IGA, what they call 
it, the market Compass from last

1130
00:51:50,770 --> 00:51:53,530
year and they didn't even list 
doctor, which I thought, you 

1131
00:51:53,530 --> 00:51:56,650
know, if there was a gap in 
their list, that's it because. 

1132
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,200
I agree with you. 
They've been at the the IGA 

1133
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:05,120
project for a while and they 
could really shake up the game. 

1134
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,680
So yeah, I'd like that answer. 
Last thing, which of these 

1135
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:14,360
technologies are you the hottest
on Kim, which we talked about is

1136
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:18,400
like Pam 2.0 around here, 
Identity verification or 

1137
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:22,000
decentralized identity? 
Decentralized identity by far 

1138
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:26,280
like I think it's it's got the 
potential to completely reshape.

1139
00:52:26,790 --> 00:52:30,550
How we look at identity and then
how we look at identity, how we 

1140
00:52:30,550 --> 00:52:33,430
use it from a daytoday basis, 
from workforce like all the way 

1141
00:52:33,430 --> 00:52:39,750
down to like everyday person 
like it's just got a huge range 

1142
00:52:39,750 --> 00:52:43,190
of impact that it can have. 
And so to me it's it's the one 

1143
00:52:43,190 --> 00:52:46,710
thing that I, I follow and check
up on the most because it's 

1144
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:51,110
it's, it's interesting to me 
it's it's really that cool kind 

1145
00:52:51,110 --> 00:52:54,430
of scifi thing that you know I 
won't say everybody but like me 

1146
00:52:54,430 --> 00:52:55,870
when I would look at some 
knowledge and stuff like that 

1147
00:52:55,870 --> 00:52:58,710
when we see these. 
You know look at Minority 

1148
00:52:58,710 --> 00:53:00,630
Report, right. 
The people used to trip out 

1149
00:53:00,630 --> 00:53:03,030
about that and the things you 
can do and like these kind of 

1150
00:53:03,790 --> 00:53:05,790
advertising that you would see 
that would target people and 

1151
00:53:05,790 --> 00:53:07,390
things of that nature and we 
kind of saw them American. 

1152
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:10,150
But like I used to always think 
about Minority Minority Report 

1153
00:53:10,150 --> 00:53:14,630
like how how far it seemed from 
a technical logical advancement.

1154
00:53:14,910 --> 00:53:16,790
I look at these centralized, I 
did it in some of the use cases 

1155
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:19,070
we were talking about like and 
the fact that we basically walk 

1156
00:53:19,070 --> 00:53:22,870
around with supercomputers in 
our pocket now like it's. 

1157
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,600
It really it has the chance to 
make like the biggest impact, 

1158
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:28,760
right? 
All the way down to like how we,

1159
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,920
how we purchase food, how we, 
you know, get transit. 

1160
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:34,960
Like you can do all of this 
stuff in carrier identity with 

1161
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:36,240
you and really protect it like 
that. 

1162
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:38,400
I don't know that that's game 
changing, right? 

1163
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,880
And if we can get it down to 
where it's, we could get it to a

1164
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,840
device that anybody can get 
access to and carry, right? 

1165
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:47,560
Now what does that look like, 
right? 

1166
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:49,040
Like, what are those 
interactions look like? 

1167
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,120
So it's it's both interesting 
and scary at the same time, 

1168
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,840
right? 
Like I do see a world where that

1169
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:57,720
kind of gets away from us, but 
by far to me, that's that's the 

1170
00:53:57,720 --> 00:54:00,160
most one that I'm interested. 
In whenever I think about the 

1171
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,480
decentralized identity, my mind 
goes to the mobile driver's 

1172
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:08,000
licenses and I think to myself 
if 10 years from now we're still

1173
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:12,280
carrying around plastic cards. 
Or paper passports or whatever 

1174
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:14,120
like that. 
It's going to be really 

1175
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,440
disappointing. 
I'm not saying that in 10 years 

1176
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:20,760
will be fully realized where 
every credential is completely 

1177
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,240
electronic 20 years from now. 
I think so. 

1178
00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:28,200
But you know I it is kind of 
hard to see the vision of going 

1179
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:31,200
from where we are today to that 
10 year vision. 

1180
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,840
But I feel like it's got, it's 
just got to happen. 

1181
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:37,600
I'm with you. 
I think it does too. 

1182
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:39,600
It's how do we do it 
responsibly? 

1183
00:54:40,090 --> 00:54:42,930
Right. 
Like we I'm going to be, I'm 

1184
00:54:42,970 --> 00:54:47,010
going to be very careful because
like this topic gets into so 

1185
00:54:47,010 --> 00:54:50,410
many different things, right. 
Like I'll just say this, the US 

1186
00:54:50,410 --> 00:54:54,730
doesn't have a great history 
when it comes to the tracking of

1187
00:54:54,730 --> 00:54:58,210
individuals, right? 
Like you start going down that 

1188
00:54:58,210 --> 00:55:01,930
history path, they're like, oh 
this is that's not good and and 

1189
00:55:01,930 --> 00:55:04,530
so that's the question. 
It's like yes, we want to be 

1190
00:55:04,530 --> 00:55:06,330
able to have that from the 
convenience but to really do 

1191
00:55:06,330 --> 00:55:08,640
that that means. 
We've got to get a device that 

1192
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,560
we can, something that we can 
now get to anybody and everybody

1193
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:13,680
that can have some kind of 
credential on it, right? 

1194
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,680
And we've got to do that 
responsibly so everybody can 

1195
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,440
have it and then give them the 
ability to share what data they 

1196
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,240
want. 
But as we've seen, it's the 

1197
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,720
question what happens on the 
other side of that, How much 

1198
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:27,920
then is other people able to 
track and use that data? 

1199
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:29,680
And that's where we got to be 
really careful because we've 

1200
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,560
already seen with, you know, the
whole Facebook, Cambridge 

1201
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:34,560
scandal and everything we've 
seen over the last, you know, 

1202
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:36,940
decade. 
When there's a regulation around

1203
00:55:36,940 --> 00:55:40,660
data, like, we will just do 
stupid things with it because we

1204
00:55:40,660 --> 00:55:43,860
can, right? 
And so that's the biggest thing 

1205
00:55:43,860 --> 00:55:45,380
about it. 
I think that's going to, that's 

1206
00:55:45,380 --> 00:55:48,180
going to, that's going to add to
the length of time of what it 

1207
00:55:48,180 --> 00:55:50,860
takes to get there is how do we 
do this responsibly? 

1208
00:55:50,860 --> 00:55:54,420
We we want people to have it. 
And yes, it it makes it not only

1209
00:55:54,420 --> 00:55:56,700
convenient, but it's more 
efficient and it's sometimes 

1210
00:55:56,700 --> 00:56:00,180
like safer, right? 
And that's awesome. 

1211
00:56:00,180 --> 00:56:02,020
But how do we make sure we do 
that responsibly? 

1212
00:56:02,020 --> 00:56:03,420
How do we think about the 
things? 

1213
00:56:03,780 --> 00:56:05,180
Just lessons that we've already 
learned, right? 

1214
00:56:05,180 --> 00:56:07,260
I always go back to the Jurassic
Park, you know, right? 

1215
00:56:07,260 --> 00:56:09,100
Like we all suffer the same 
thing. 

1216
00:56:09,700 --> 00:56:11,940
We're quick to see whether we 
can something, but we never 

1217
00:56:12,180 --> 00:56:15,060
started to think. 
Should we do this right and 

1218
00:56:15,060 --> 00:56:17,740
that? 
Is an awesome comment and I 

1219
00:56:17,740 --> 00:56:20,020
think, you know, we could sit 
here and debate because that 

1220
00:56:20,020 --> 00:56:22,980
that's a rabbit hole. 
That is a rabbit hole. 

1221
00:56:24,140 --> 00:56:27,580
Well, let's go ahead and and 
wrap up with a I because it 

1222
00:56:27,580 --> 00:56:29,980
wouldn't be an episode without 
some a I at the center talk. 

1223
00:56:30,660 --> 00:56:34,380
Where do you see a I taking? 
You know the identity space. 

1224
00:56:34,820 --> 00:56:39,340
I think it I think it helps 
transforming to its next kind of

1225
00:56:39,340 --> 00:56:44,780
state. 
I had this conversations at RSAI

1226
00:56:44,780 --> 00:56:48,580
think with so I I got to back up
with this concept when I first 

1227
00:56:48,580 --> 00:56:53,780
saw what everything what chat GP
Jack's chat GPD was doing and I 

1228
00:56:53,780 --> 00:56:58,020
saw these LOAS and generative a 
I I didn't get excited about oh 

1229
00:56:58,020 --> 00:57:00,940
chat GP can write A blog for me 
say no no what this tells me is 

1230
00:57:00,940 --> 00:57:03,530
that. 
The underlying components of it,

1231
00:57:03,570 --> 00:57:05,250
right? 
To be able to build the data 

1232
00:57:05,250 --> 00:57:08,170
sets, to train models, have 
gotten to a point where you can 

1233
00:57:08,290 --> 00:57:11,170
actually develop applications on
top of it quickly. 

1234
00:57:11,170 --> 00:57:13,970
I was like, that means we've 
made a huge progression there. 

1235
00:57:14,050 --> 00:57:16,450
That's awesome, because now that
means I can take these things 

1236
00:57:16,450 --> 00:57:19,210
and start to put them into other
things and use them in different

1237
00:57:19,210 --> 00:57:20,730
ways, which we've seen since 
then. 

1238
00:57:20,730 --> 00:57:22,770
Like everything literally has a 
I in it now. 

1239
00:57:22,890 --> 00:57:25,010
Freaking Google Dash. 
Just roll something out right, 

1240
00:57:25,010 --> 00:57:27,290
Like so. 
Having said that. 

1241
00:57:27,830 --> 00:57:30,830
Where I see AI coming in is that
we can, we can start to look at 

1242
00:57:30,830 --> 00:57:32,590
that and imply that there's a 
lot of things that we do in 

1243
00:57:32,590 --> 00:57:35,030
identity that are just 
inefficient because they're 

1244
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:37,590
administrative heavy, that can 
easily be automated, that you 

1245
00:57:37,590 --> 00:57:41,070
can give to a training model and
say, oh, this is how this works,

1246
00:57:41,150 --> 00:57:43,350
I know how to do this, no 
problem, take it there. 

1247
00:57:43,350 --> 00:57:48,750
So what I see is things like 
access reviews I see actually 

1248
00:57:48,750 --> 00:57:52,230
use being the thing of the past,
I think between activity data 

1249
00:57:52,510 --> 00:57:55,740
using a. 
An, A, I model to understand 

1250
00:57:55,740 --> 00:57:58,540
access patterns and 
relationships that you could 

1251
00:57:58,540 --> 00:58:02,540
certify in real time, like what 
Access somebody has, turn around

1252
00:58:02,540 --> 00:58:05,540
with like a digital signature to
sign it. 

1253
00:58:05,740 --> 00:58:07,820
And you can even pass out to 
otters and go like, yeah, I 

1254
00:58:07,820 --> 00:58:08,780
don't need to run an Access 
view. 

1255
00:58:08,820 --> 00:58:13,180
I can literally tell you here is
what the Access that people have

1256
00:58:13,180 --> 00:58:15,500
today, here's what they're 
approved to have, and here's how

1257
00:58:15,500 --> 00:58:17,100
we're making sure they always 
kind of have that. 

1258
00:58:17,380 --> 00:58:19,620
And so I think there's going to 
be certain things like that that

1259
00:58:19,620 --> 00:58:21,940
just get completely wiped out, 
like you no longer need to do 

1260
00:58:21,940 --> 00:58:24,070
them. 
So that's what I look at for AI 

1261
00:58:24,070 --> 00:58:26,430
as we start to look at this and 
learn and understand more about 

1262
00:58:26,430 --> 00:58:28,950
the data and what we can do with
these data and build these 

1263
00:58:28,950 --> 00:58:31,150
models. 
I see things like that just kind

1264
00:58:31,150 --> 00:58:34,270
of completely transforming those
features and making them 

1265
00:58:34,270 --> 00:58:36,590
something that is not. 
It's an afterthought, It's like 

1266
00:58:36,750 --> 00:58:37,830
it's just kind of something we 
do. 

1267
00:58:38,110 --> 00:58:41,030
Yeah, I agree with that. 
I mean, it's exciting to see the

1268
00:58:41,030 --> 00:58:44,470
advances. 
I'm bullish on it, but we've got

1269
00:58:44,470 --> 00:58:45,950
to make sure that we do it right
and. 

1270
00:58:47,620 --> 00:58:48,660
We've talked about, like the 
statement. 

1271
00:58:48,660 --> 00:58:50,340
I remember who it was. 
But it's like, you know, now 

1272
00:58:50,340 --> 00:58:52,940
with 50% more a I, right. 
This identity tool, it's like, 

1273
00:58:52,940 --> 00:58:55,060
OK, well, well, you know, great,
cool. 

1274
00:58:55,060 --> 00:58:57,980
You know, my definition of it 
changed when we saw things like 

1275
00:58:57,980 --> 00:59:02,260
ChatGPT come out, was like, wow.
And now I use it a lot. 

1276
00:59:02,380 --> 00:59:05,260
I mean, it's a great starting 
point, but it also lies a lot. 

1277
00:59:05,740 --> 00:59:07,580
You know, it hallucinates 
whatever, you know, whatever 

1278
00:59:07,580 --> 00:59:11,980
term you want to use for 
providing, you know, not factual

1279
00:59:12,460 --> 00:59:15,340
data, right. 
Those are the things that I 

1280
00:59:15,340 --> 00:59:16,740
think we need to keep an eye out
for. 

1281
00:59:16,740 --> 00:59:18,580
But it'll get better. 
That's the that's the bright 

1282
00:59:18,580 --> 00:59:20,980
side, right? 
This is the worst that it will 

1283
00:59:20,980 --> 00:59:22,620
ever be, and it's pretty darn 
good. 

1284
00:59:23,860 --> 00:59:25,340
But, and here's the also thing 
about it, right? 

1285
00:59:25,340 --> 00:59:30,940
This is, to me, this is the this
is brought to life. 

1286
00:59:30,940 --> 00:59:33,100
In saying that, we always say 
garbage in, garbage out. 

1287
00:59:33,460 --> 00:59:34,700
You're literally seeing it, 
right? 

1288
00:59:34,700 --> 00:59:36,460
So people complain about, oh 
does this or whatever it was 

1289
00:59:36,460 --> 00:59:40,300
like, it's trained on this like 
it's only going to come up with 

1290
00:59:40,300 --> 00:59:42,720
the data that you give it. 
So if you want to complain, oh, 

1291
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:44,760
it's biased because data is 
biased. 

1292
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:46,640
Oh, it's this because it's the 
data you gave it. 

1293
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,000
Like, it's not going to 
magically make things better. 

1294
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,920
It's just when you look at 
machine learning in general, 

1295
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:56,200
it's like it can consume mass 
amounts of data faster than the 

1296
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:57,680
human brain. 
That's the whole purpose. 

1297
00:59:57,680 --> 00:59:58,760
Great. 
All right, cool. 

1298
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:01,520
Do all this for me and then show
me the patterns, right. 

1299
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:03,880
If you don't like the patterns 
that it shows you, it's because 

1300
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:05,280
you got to go look at the data 
that you're giving it. 

1301
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,680
So to your point about that, it 
will get better because as we 

1302
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:09,480
start to, we want to use and do 
more, we're going to have to 

1303
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:11,200
learn okay. 
How do we? 

1304
01:00:11,540 --> 01:00:14,260
We need to make sure that we're 
getting the data that we want 

1305
01:00:14,340 --> 01:00:16,500
and we're getting more about 
asking our questions about the 

1306
01:00:16,500 --> 01:00:19,580
data, doing better, about making
sure that our our systems are 

1307
01:00:19,580 --> 01:00:21,340
actually creating the data that 
we want, right? 

1308
01:00:21,340 --> 01:00:22,500
Another rabbit that we can get 
into. 

1309
01:00:22,500 --> 01:00:25,300
But I'll just say with this, 
like something as specific as 

1310
01:00:25,300 --> 01:00:27,980
like looking at your identity 
system, like what are the audit 

1311
01:00:27,980 --> 01:00:30,060
records that you're writing? 
Most of the sounds are very 

1312
01:00:30,060 --> 01:00:32,820
customizable and nobody touches 
them, right? 

1313
01:00:32,980 --> 01:00:34,660
So like, you could literally say
okay. 

1314
01:00:34,660 --> 01:00:36,700
Well, if I can customize my 
audit records and say here's the

1315
01:00:36,700 --> 01:00:38,180
things I want to audit every 
single time. 

1316
01:00:38,550 --> 01:00:40,350
Now I'm giving it much more data
that guess what? 

1317
01:00:40,350 --> 01:00:42,470
Then I can start building 
patterns off of and doing 

1318
01:00:42,470 --> 01:00:43,950
models. 
So it's things like that. 

1319
01:00:44,030 --> 01:00:46,590
As we start to learn and 
understand it, that then it will

1320
01:00:46,590 --> 01:00:48,790
start to get better. 
We just have to, you know, dig 

1321
01:00:48,790 --> 01:00:51,190
it and do what? 
All right, well, we've got David

1322
01:00:51,190 --> 01:00:53,710
Lee, the identity in Jedi, so 
we're gonna end on a lightsaber 

1323
01:00:53,710 --> 01:00:57,350
note. 
So what I wanna understand from 

1324
01:00:57,350 --> 01:01:02,310
you, David, is what color is 
your identity, Jedi lightsaber. 

1325
01:01:03,310 --> 01:01:05,310
OK, so. 
And I hope it's not the same as 

1326
01:01:05,310 --> 01:01:07,610
mine. 
We'll find out. 

1327
01:01:08,490 --> 01:01:13,010
Mine is white and I got to get 
the story of why it's right. 

1328
01:01:13,010 --> 01:01:14,090
This is for all the Star Wars in
there. 

1329
01:01:14,090 --> 01:01:15,010
So Jim, you're not going to like
this. 

1330
01:01:15,010 --> 01:01:18,370
I'm sorry. 
Before it, it was purple, right?

1331
01:01:18,450 --> 01:01:22,730
Because I loved Ms. Swindoo. 
He was like one of my favorite 

1332
01:01:22,730 --> 01:01:24,450
characters. 
I was like, yes, that is that is

1333
01:01:24,450 --> 01:01:28,530
the color that I will go for it.
And then I finally got into 

1334
01:01:28,690 --> 01:01:32,530
Rebels and like I watched all of
that in. 

1335
01:01:33,270 --> 01:01:36,030
When I saw kind of a soca's 
timeline, I agreed so much with 

1336
01:01:36,030 --> 01:01:39,670
the soca that I was like, Nope, 
that is kind of where I would 

1337
01:01:39,670 --> 01:01:41,950
go. 
White lightsaber all the way. 

1338
01:01:42,670 --> 01:01:45,470
All right, So white is kind of 
traditionally seen as like 

1339
01:01:45,470 --> 01:01:50,430
purity, peace, positivity, 
neutrality, kind of that Gray 

1340
01:01:50,430 --> 01:01:53,630
Jedi potential, right? 
I think more on the side of. 

1341
01:01:55,190 --> 01:01:57,470
You know, not seeking conflict. 
You're right. 

1342
01:01:57,470 --> 01:01:59,830
That kind of thing. 
So I'm surprised that you said 

1343
01:01:59,830 --> 01:02:01,350
white, because I thought for 
sure you gonna be seeing me, 

1344
01:02:01,350 --> 01:02:02,710
because mine is definitely 
purple. 

1345
01:02:03,110 --> 01:02:05,790
I I am a Gray Jedi, like through
and through. 

1346
01:02:05,790 --> 01:02:08,550
I will pull from the light side,
the dark side. 

1347
01:02:08,550 --> 01:02:10,470
It doesn't matter. 
I'm going at it. 

1348
01:02:11,150 --> 01:02:12,510
Whatever I need to do to get the
job done. 

1349
01:02:12,510 --> 01:02:14,790
Not seeking it out. 
So I'm not, you know, that that 

1350
01:02:14,790 --> 01:02:17,470
side of it. 
But definitely, yeah, Mace 

1351
01:02:17,470 --> 01:02:18,870
Windu. 
And then, of course, you know 

1352
01:02:19,150 --> 01:02:21,430
Samuel Jackson. 
I mean, come on, man. 

1353
01:02:21,910 --> 01:02:24,710
That's the way to go. 
Jim, what's your color of 

1354
01:02:24,710 --> 01:02:27,390
lightsaber? 
What color was Yoda? 

1355
01:02:28,190 --> 01:02:31,310
Yoda was green, I think. 
Yeah, is that. 

1356
01:02:31,710 --> 01:02:34,350
Yeah, it's a it's a growth 
safety harmony. 

1357
01:02:34,350 --> 01:02:35,630
I've got a little with CHEAT 
SHEET, I mean. 

1358
01:02:35,630 --> 01:02:38,670
I like Yoda. 
So here's the question I had 

1359
01:02:38,670 --> 01:02:43,070
because I saw someone wearing a 
tshirt and there's that, I don't

1360
01:02:43,070 --> 01:02:45,790
know animal or person that looks
like a baby Yoda. 

1361
01:02:46,430 --> 01:02:48,270
Yeah. 
Is that baby Yoda? 

1362
01:02:49,110 --> 01:02:50,350
It's. 
Groku. 

1363
01:02:51,010 --> 01:02:52,330
Yeah. 
Is that the same person? 

1364
01:02:52,650 --> 01:02:56,610
It's the same what race or 
creatures or whatever species. 

1365
01:02:56,610 --> 01:02:57,650
That's what I was looking for, 
yeah, yeah. 

1366
01:02:57,650 --> 01:03:00,450
Is that a Jedi we? 
Don't know yet, yeah. 

1367
01:03:01,130 --> 01:03:02,730
They're definitely force 
sensitive. 

1368
01:03:03,050 --> 01:03:05,730
The midichlorians are going 
crazy on that kid I. 

1369
01:03:08,330 --> 01:03:09,850
Don't know. 
Jim doesn't even know what 

1370
01:03:09,850 --> 01:03:10,930
questions to ask. 
He's like. 

1371
01:03:13,210 --> 01:03:15,450
Well, just pick a color. 
Like what was the card again? 

1372
01:03:17,150 --> 01:03:18,870
He just makes it so that's all 
he does. 

1373
01:03:19,110 --> 01:03:20,830
I'm going to go. 
I got to go Yoda. 

1374
01:03:21,190 --> 01:03:22,390
I go green. 
All right. 

1375
01:03:22,430 --> 01:03:23,590
Growth. 
Safety, Harmony. 

1376
01:03:23,790 --> 01:03:25,550
All right, all right. 
This has been a fun 

1377
01:03:25,550 --> 01:03:27,950
conversation. 
David, thank you so much for 

1378
01:03:27,950 --> 01:03:28,870
joining us. 
We're going to have a whole 

1379
01:03:28,870 --> 01:03:30,830
bunch of links in our show 
notes, you know, for you, for 

1380
01:03:31,510 --> 01:03:33,790
people to connect with you on 
LinkedIn, we'll have a link to 

1381
01:03:33,790 --> 01:03:36,070
your book, which just came out a
month ago, which is very 

1382
01:03:36,070 --> 01:03:36,990
exciting. 
Good times. 

1383
01:03:37,350 --> 01:03:40,110
The only one in the room, the 
unwritten rules of being black 

1384
01:03:40,110 --> 01:03:42,310
and tech. 
So definitely check that out. 

1385
01:03:42,310 --> 01:03:44,550
And of course, the Identity Jedi
website. 

1386
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:46,480
Sign up for the newsletter. 
It's cool. 

1387
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:48,360
I dig it. 
I like the style. 

1388
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:49,840
It's totally up my speed. 
So well done. 

1389
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,280
Congratulations. 
Hopefully you'll come back and 

1390
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:56,120
join us. 
Hopefully we will have you come 

1391
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:58,160
live on a show when we're next 
time we're at a conference 

1392
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:03,160
together or something like that,
and maybe Ian will assault you 

1393
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:05,560
while you're on the microphone. 
Next time, just to make it even.

1394
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:09,120
Make it fair. 
Yeah, exactly. 

1395
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,680
Well, you know, that's that's, 
you know, fair balance to the 

1396
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:14,160
force, right? 
All that kind of good stuff. 

1397
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:15,800
All right, enough Star Star Wars
stuff. 

1398
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:17,520
We're going to leave it there 
for this week. 

1399
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:21,360
Don't forget to check out our 
discount code for Authenticate 

1400
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:24,840
ID AC15 podcast. 
Get you 15% off. 

1401
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,840
Hopefully we'll see a lot of 
people at Authenticate Friendly 

1402
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,880
Faces hopefully see a lot of 
people friendly faces at 

1403
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:34,760
Identity Week America also 
coming up And yeah, we're on the

1404
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:39,610
web, identitythecenter.com. 
On Twitter IDAC Podcast Mastodon

1405
01:04:39,610 --> 01:04:42,730
IDAC podcast at infosec dot 
exchange. 

1406
01:04:43,290 --> 01:04:45,810
Still hate the names and the way
that works, but whatever. 

1407
01:04:46,850 --> 01:04:48,770
Connect with us on LinkedIn. 
Looking for ideas, for show 

1408
01:04:48,770 --> 01:04:50,930
notes, for I mean for for for 
future shows. 

1409
01:04:50,930 --> 01:04:52,290
Questions, right? 
Things like that. 

1410
01:04:52,770 --> 01:04:55,410
And connect with David. 
What I saw today was that David 

1411
01:04:55,410 --> 01:04:59,430
and I have like 180. 
Contacts in common. 

1412
01:04:59,430 --> 01:05:00,990
So yeah, you had. 
Me beat by almost. 

1413
01:05:00,990 --> 01:05:02,870
No, I think I have like 111 or 
something like that. 

1414
01:05:02,870 --> 01:05:05,710
So we know a lot of the same 
people or we accept every invite

1415
01:05:05,710 --> 01:05:08,710
that comes our way and we don't 
really filter out whatever it 

1416
01:05:08,710 --> 01:05:11,750
is. 
One of the two, Yeah, we'll go 

1417
01:05:11,750 --> 01:05:14,350
in there like subscribe, share 
with a friend, share with an 

1418
01:05:14,350 --> 01:05:15,950
enemy, don't care as long as 
they're listening. 

1419
01:05:15,990 --> 01:05:18,790
This all matters to us. 
So thanks, David, so much for 

1420
01:05:18,790 --> 01:05:21,270
your time, Jim. 
Thanks for your time. 

1421
01:05:21,430 --> 01:05:23,470
And we'll talk with everyone in 
the next one. 

1422
01:05:24,790 --> 01:05:27,710
You've been listening to 
Identity at the Center. 

1423
01:05:28,030 --> 01:05:32,110
We hope you've enjoyed the show.
Make sure to like, rate and 

1424
01:05:32,110 --> 01:05:35,750
review and we'll be back soon. 
But in the meantime, hit the 

1425
01:05:35,750 --> 01:05:39,910
website at 
identity@thecenter.com and find 

1426
01:05:39,910 --> 01:05:47,310
us on Twitter at IDAC Podcast. 
See you next time on Identity at

1427
01:05:47,310 --> 01:05:48,270
the Center.