1 00:00:08,700 --> 00:00:27,100 Identity and access management, welcome to another episode of 2 00:00:27,100 --> 00:00:29,000 the identity at the center podcast. 3 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,100 I'm Jeff. Jeff and that's Jim. 4 00:00:31,100 --> 00:00:32,900 Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff. 5 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,800 How you doing? I'm doing pretty good. 6 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:41,300 I think I'm still healthy. You never know though. 7 00:00:41,300 --> 00:00:43,300 I think with all that's going on. 8 00:00:43,900 --> 00:00:49,600 There's this major coronavirus out there that Center you get it 9 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,600 and you don't know that you've got it for a little bit, maybe a 10 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,300 manifest in the beginning, like it's a regular cold and all 11 00:00:57,300 --> 00:00:59,800 that. So I guess I'm joining the the 12 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,500 Paranoid paranoid, Millions. Well, you and I are traveling 13 00:01:04,500 --> 00:01:06,600 this week. So we're in Washington DC and 14 00:01:07,900 --> 00:01:12,100 you know, I think, you know, when I left Chicago area, Monday 15 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,000 O'Hare Airport, which is one of the busiest in the world was 16 00:01:16,500 --> 00:01:21,300 very opposite of that. I mean, just empty Gates, you 17 00:01:21,300 --> 00:01:23,400 know, lots of room to spread out. 18 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,100 So it's definitely, you know, taking a hit. 19 00:01:26,100 --> 00:01:29,800 I think the Corona virus time travel, but even since Monday, 20 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,800 The temperature of the situation has changed drastically with the 21 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:36,600 announcement of it that have been made in that least in the 22 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,500 u.s. Throughout the course of the 23 00:01:38,508 --> 00:01:41,800 week. So, most of the sporting weeks 24 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,900 of decided to suspend, you know, play. 25 00:01:44,900 --> 00:01:47,900 And there's talk now that March Madness might be kids, you know, 26 00:01:47,900 --> 00:01:50,900 might be cancelled, so lots of stuff going on. 27 00:01:52,300 --> 00:01:54,600 Yeah, it's it's it's unfortunate. 28 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,300 But I think that it's the right time to take drastic measures. 29 00:01:58,300 --> 00:02:03,500 I mean, there's kind of you have to kind of look at what other 30 00:02:03,500 --> 00:02:06,000 countries have done and what has been successful in. 31 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:11,600 Looks like they've got things more or less under control in 32 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,400 China which with the population of that country. 33 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,200 You wouldn't think it would be something. 34 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:22,500 That would be easy to do yet. It seems like they've kind of 35 00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:27,200 slowed the spread which I think is really, it's important. 36 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,100 So, you know, obviously I'm not an expert and eschewing 37 00:02:31,100 --> 00:02:35,300 information about coronavirus. Carly doesn't really add to the 38 00:02:35,300 --> 00:02:40,700 global wealth of information, but you think about it like this 39 00:02:40,700 --> 00:02:43,500 is that there's a certain number of people who are going to 40 00:02:43,500 --> 00:02:45,400 become infected with coronavirus. 41 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:50,700 It's but if it all happens in one weekend or in one short 42 00:02:50,700 --> 00:02:53,000 period of time, Versus spreading it out. 43 00:02:53,100 --> 00:02:56,800 It really changes the impact on the medical system because you 44 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,900 know, 100 people show up to the hospital and one hour or one day 45 00:03:00,900 --> 00:03:04,000 or one week, There's totally different scenarios. 46 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:08,500 So, yeah, I think it's important that we take the right 47 00:03:08,500 --> 00:03:12,600 precautions and, and we, as individuals, I think so. 48 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,400 This is what this would be. My PSA is that we as individuals 49 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,800 of people keep telling me. Well, you know, you're young and 50 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:24,600 you're healthy, you'll be fine. And we can't just take the view 51 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,000 of. How does this affect me? 52 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,700 We have to be thinking about others. 53 00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:32,400 And, you know, we might come into contact with people who do 54 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,300 have compromised immune systems, or as an advanced age or we 55 00:03:36,300 --> 00:03:39,000 could wind up. In fact, infecting somebody who 56 00:03:39,500 --> 00:03:45,500 does contact those populations a lot and that would be a really 57 00:03:45,500 --> 00:03:48,100 sad situation. So I think we've taken upon 58 00:03:48,100 --> 00:03:51,400 ourselves to make sure that we're not becoming part of the 59 00:03:51,500 --> 00:03:56,600 Even if it doesn't directly make us sick or directly kill us. 60 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,800 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 61 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:01,500 This isn't definitely, definitely not a medical 62 00:04:01,500 --> 00:04:06,000 podcast, but I think my PSA would be if you're sick or you 63 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,700 think you might be sick, just stay home. 64 00:04:07,700 --> 00:04:10,800 I mean, I know it's easier said than done for a lot of folks, 65 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,300 but you're not helping the situation. 66 00:04:13,300 --> 00:04:15,900 If you're spreading it around, I kind of felt bad this week 67 00:04:15,900 --> 00:04:19,899 because it's also allergy season and, you know, yesterday we were 68 00:04:19,899 --> 00:04:22,600 in the client office and all of a sudden Sudden, you know, that 69 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,200 morning. I just started have, you know, 70 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,100 probably allergy. So I'm sitting there, you know, 71 00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:30,300 sniffing and and sneezing. And, you know, I told, I told 72 00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:32,000 our customers like, hey, you know, if you're not comfortable 73 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,300 being here, like these are allergies and I feel fine. 74 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,000 But if you want me to go back to the hotel and work, I'm happy to 75 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,900 do that, you know, want to make sure that, you know, people are 76 00:04:39,900 --> 00:04:42,900 okay with it. But yeah, some reason things 77 00:04:42,900 --> 00:04:46,000 like, oh, that's it. I was in the room when you said 78 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,800 that and she's like, no, you're fine and thinking I sent him 79 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:54,400 home, get him here. But the good news is, I woke up 80 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,200 to this morning and I was like, okay, that's fine. 81 00:04:56,300 --> 00:05:00,900 Like nothing going on. So yeah, so so far, I think, you 82 00:05:00,900 --> 00:05:04,200 know, movie, we've dodged things but you know, coronavirus 83 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,300 definitely has had an impact on the business world. 84 00:05:06,300 --> 00:05:09,000 And then kind of got at least me thinking and probably us 85 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,800 thinking from an identity and access management perspective. 86 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:16,300 What are some of the things that, you know, this type of 87 00:05:16,300 --> 00:05:19,300 situation, brings to light. And the first thing that I 88 00:05:19,300 --> 00:05:25,300 thought of was, you know, VPN Ben and I go back to way way 89 00:05:25,300 --> 00:05:28,300 back in my history. Well, the companies I used to 90 00:05:28,308 --> 00:05:32,200 work for didn't have a lot of remote workers. 91 00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:38,800 So when there was a reason to work from home for a mass amount 92 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,400 of people, the DPN would always crash because it couldn't handle 93 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,500 the number of people connecting. So got me kind of think about 94 00:05:45,500 --> 00:05:48,400 that, and it makes me wonder how many companies that have 95 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,900 recently announced, you know, they want their workers to stay 96 00:05:50,900 --> 00:05:53,600 home. How many of those people are 97 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,700 those companies had, you know the appropriate VPN support to 98 00:05:57,700 --> 00:06:02,600 be able to support that great. Well, I mean, it may be a 99 00:06:02,608 --> 00:06:08,000 situation where if you haven't moved to a third-party VPN at 100 00:06:08,008 --> 00:06:11,500 this point, you know, you have some kind of Hardware device on 101 00:06:11,500 --> 00:06:15,800 your network that kind of constricts how many connections 102 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,400 you can have if you're in a situation where you do have? 103 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,000 That Hardware dependency. You may be may be too late to do 104 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,300 much and you might want to look at something like, well first, I 105 00:06:28,308 --> 00:06:31,200 thought you wanted you want to test it and and really know how 106 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:36,000 much how much traffic you can support, how many users 107 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,800 concurrent users you can support, then you may want to 108 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,500 look at, you know, scheduling certain folks to have their 109 00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:49,600 amount of time to be on the BPM and who are some people may need 110 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,800 to We get an hour day or something to synchronize emails 111 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,500 or something like that, or maybe it sounds kind of silly. 112 00:06:55,500 --> 00:07:00,200 But at this point, you're probably having to prioritize 113 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,700 that kind of connection, but it's really going to be a black. 114 00:07:03,700 --> 00:07:06,800 I would think if you know appropriate planning wasn't done 115 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,700 in the, this scenario wasn't kind of planned for not 116 00:07:10,900 --> 00:07:14,500 specifically, coronavirus put some kind of scenario where they 117 00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:17,300 all of a sudden everybody has to work from home. 118 00:07:17,300 --> 00:07:19,700 And can we remain productive visit? 119 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,400 Company have not but was also something I've been encouraging 120 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,000 clients. When I do see a hardware 121 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,900 dependency on VPN or a dependency on their own VPN 122 00:07:30,900 --> 00:07:34,200 configuration. So, you know really ought to 123 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,100 look at Outsourcing that to a third party like a an AT&T or 124 00:07:38,100 --> 00:07:40,500 something like that. Where you know, you can pretty 125 00:07:40,500 --> 00:07:44,800 much I think call and increase the number of users who are 126 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,600 still probably some partner dependency, but I think if it's, 127 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,300 you're leveraging A third party data center. 128 00:07:52,300 --> 00:07:55,600 People are connecting in through that, everything was kind of 129 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,300 virtualized in your more depending on their hard work. 130 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:00,400 Right? And if you use something like 131 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,400 split tunneling, only sending traffic back to your network 132 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,500 that needs to be there and take advantage of the cloud services 133 00:08:07,300 --> 00:08:10,200 and connecting to them directly for the internet, you know, 134 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,000 obviously the appropriate security measures don't place 135 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,900 like to factor a multi-factor at that sort of thing, that can 136 00:08:15,900 --> 00:08:17,800 also leave E8. Some of the burden especially 137 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,000 since You know, a lot of companies now are are using 138 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,600 things like Office 365, and Google suite and stuff like 139 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,900 that. Yeah, a lot of my recommendation 140 00:08:26,900 --> 00:08:30,600 to our clients throughout moving to a third party VPN had more to 141 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,799 do with security. Because one of the things we 142 00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:38,900 find, especially with smaller companies with a smaller 143 00:08:38,900 --> 00:08:45,200 Workforce that they maintain their own VPN during VPN 144 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:50,500 Hardware, is that, you know, the sugar, Keep it updated with the 145 00:08:50,500 --> 00:08:52,300 latest and greatest security and things. 146 00:08:52,300 --> 00:08:55,200 And yes, they might have the cheapest solution. 147 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,600 But if you wind up getting hacked again, one of having 148 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:06,600 security issues, cheapest isn't always the cheapest, right? 149 00:09:06,700 --> 00:09:11,100 I imagine that if remote connectivity was not part of a, 150 00:09:11,900 --> 00:09:16,000 you know, business continuity or Disaster Recovery plan that I 151 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,100 would expect is probably going to become part of the plan. 152 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,400 You know, pretty much right away for folks to have that in place 153 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,200 right now, right? Some other things that kind of 154 00:09:25,208 --> 00:09:27,900 thought about here, you know, having been in this position 155 00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:31,700 from a identity admin perspective and operations was 156 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,700 people not having the right permissions in place to be able 157 00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:38,500 to work remotely there. Sometimes there's a dependency. 158 00:09:38,500 --> 00:09:42,400 I'm being, you know, on the network and and, you know, being 159 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,500 able to get the resources file shares, sorts of things, and 160 00:09:45,500 --> 00:09:48,100 people start to extend outside of that. 161 00:09:49,500 --> 00:09:53,000 You start to receive an influx of access requests. 162 00:09:53,300 --> 00:09:55,400 And of course, everything's urgent because everyone's 163 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,900 working from home in an emergency situation and that can 164 00:09:59,300 --> 00:10:03,800 that can sometimes wreak havoc on a on an I am operations team 165 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:08,100 as well. Yeah, hopefully the investment 166 00:10:08,100 --> 00:10:13,200 has been made in the past to automate a lot of the access 167 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,400 request processes and automated provisioning. 168 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,100 Most organizations are not somewhere in between state, 169 00:10:20,100 --> 00:10:24,400 where they've got some Automation and other other areas 170 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,000 not as much. And yeah, I can definitely lead 171 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,700 to that. Overworked kind of situation. 172 00:10:30,100 --> 00:10:35,600 I think one thing that should we plan for is I think really we 173 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:40,600 have Watch for that potential Spike and be able to, you know, 174 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:46,200 ask people who maybe work shifts or and shift work can sometimes 175 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,900 be more feasible when people are working from home. 176 00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:52,800 It might be more willing to do something like that, since they 177 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,000 don't have to, you know, be in the office and be away from 178 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:00,400 their families, but those are, those are some potential 179 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,100 options, shift work, and it's really going to be hard to 180 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:09,700 maybe. Add people and adding people in 181 00:11:09,700 --> 00:11:13,600 the, you know, I guess I'm hoping is that this whole thing 182 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,900 where people are having to work remotely and businesses shut 183 00:11:16,900 --> 00:11:19,700 down and be kind of relay Showdown is that we're looking 184 00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:22,900 at like a four to eight week kind of situation. 185 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,100 And, you know, and it's probably somewhat rolling. 186 00:11:27,100 --> 00:11:30,000 I don't think everybody's going to shut down overnight, but you 187 00:11:30,008 --> 00:11:34,100 already exciting to see it in very public institutions, like 188 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,200 the sports leagues, were Really shouldn't things down. 189 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,900 And a lot of conferences are getting cancer and things like 190 00:11:39,900 --> 00:11:43,700 that. I think a lot of office workers 191 00:11:43,700 --> 00:11:46,700 are going to start working remotely in the next week or 192 00:11:46,700 --> 00:11:51,600 two. And I think that hopefully this 193 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,300 whole thing only lasts, you know, a month or two months and 194 00:11:55,300 --> 00:12:00,200 that really get the, the spread of the virus under control and 195 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,400 that time. Yeah, and I think that brings up 196 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,700 another issue where you have people who Maybe don't work from 197 00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:09,700 home, a lot or ever. And now they're trying to log on 198 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:11,600 with maybe, you know, an account. 199 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,000 They haven't used in a while and I need a password reset and I 200 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,300 know a lot of companies struggle for instance, with like, active 201 00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:21,400 directory accounts and having to be on the domain to get their 202 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,900 password reset, but they can't get on the domain because 203 00:12:24,900 --> 00:12:27,500 they're remote. I know, we started, I struggle 204 00:12:27,500 --> 00:12:29,500 with this, in the past with, you know, so the colors worked as 205 00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:31,500 okay. Well, is there an office? 206 00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:35,700 You can go to so that, you know, we can sink down the password. 207 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:37,500 Change essentially to your device. 208 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,300 I haven't really seen a great solution for that yet. 209 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,100 And I think that's one of the benefits. 210 00:12:43,100 --> 00:12:46,100 I think of moving to the cloud things like, you know, Office 211 00:12:46,100 --> 00:12:49,800 365 and G, sweet and stuff like that. 212 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,600 But I guess things are extremely rare. 213 00:12:52,500 --> 00:12:55,700 Is the biggest thing that I've seen that has impressed me as 214 00:12:55,700 --> 00:13:00,200 there are some like full-time VPN solution. 215 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,600 So once you launch your device, that connects the vpm without 216 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:10,000 even having to How to log into the desktop to your path? 217 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,100 So other words, full-time connected BPM one. 218 00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:16,100 Thought I had. As you were kind of describing 219 00:13:16,100 --> 00:13:20,400 this scenario is, you know, whenever I would You know how my 220 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,000 password locked out of usually wasn't because I just forgot my 221 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,700 password. I'm sure that does happen. 222 00:13:26,700 --> 00:13:29,500 But the biggest reason I would get my password log out is that 223 00:13:29,500 --> 00:13:32,000 it would say the pastor is going to expire. 224 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,000 In five days. I get to 14 days, three days and 225 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,900 then be Friday and would expire over the weekend. 226 00:13:39,900 --> 00:13:42,900 I come in on Monday. I launched my computer on Monday 227 00:13:42,900 --> 00:13:49,100 and I was locked out and I think that what might help is. 228 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,900 Is maybe a communication people that, hey, when you start 229 00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:56,300 getting prompted for a password resets, be really helpful. 230 00:13:56,300 --> 00:13:59,200 If you got a head of things and change your password and now, 231 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,400 wait until the last minute, right? 232 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,100 Or maybe even do that as part of your exit plan from the office. 233 00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:08,500 You know, I don't know how feasible it is, but for folks 234 00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:11,600 that are going to be, you know, going out work remotely for 235 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,500 time, reset it while you're still in the office, so that you 236 00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:17,000 don't have to worry about password expiration, while 237 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,800 you're while you'r, Right. That's right. 238 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,700 You know, I think this is a, this is a time where probably 239 00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:30,700 people are that coming up with a lot of these plans, but you can 240 00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:34,700 see where if you had kind of thought through these kind of 241 00:14:34,700 --> 00:14:37,500 plans well in advance. So say you were thinking about 242 00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:41,600 these things a year or two ago and you start running into? 243 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,100 Okay. Well, how are people going to 244 00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:44,600 contact the help desk? Okay. 245 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:49,500 Well, you know, we need to get soft bones instead and wear red 246 00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:52,100 on the Ready. So that if we need people to 247 00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:56,400 work from home, they could use cellphones and transfer their 248 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,700 phone to that. Okay, you know, maybe you don't 249 00:14:58,700 --> 00:15:02,100 want to pay for full soft. I'm full-time, softphone 250 00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:07,000 licenses, but maybe that's something that you could, you 251 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,500 would be willing to pay for in this scenario all of a sudden. 252 00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:13,400 We're at least four people who, you know, maybe work on the 253 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,800 service desk, where they answer Central phone number. 254 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,600 Well, now, all of a sudden you can you can do something like 255 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,400 you. Soft bone, the VPN question. 256 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,700 And we talked about a little bit ago. 257 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,600 It's this is why you have to constantly, you know, if you're 258 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:34,200 in it or your information security be thinking about 259 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,000 disaster planning is its kind of call thises as something like 260 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,200 that. Alright. 261 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,300 Business continuity planning, at least. 262 00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:44,700 Yeah. And part of that playing taken 263 00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:49,200 to affect or take into account how it affects operations. 264 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:55,200 I was the on-call person during a snowstorm in Chicagoland area, 265 00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:58,600 many years ago, and I got absolutely crushed. 266 00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:01,500 You know, I and I'm dealing with, you know, six feet of 267 00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:03,000 snow. It was a blizzard in my front 268 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,200 yard and, you know, basically my pager at the time, you know, 269 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,400 just going crazy every minute because people had so many 270 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,600 issues and we at that time, we really hadn't prepared or 271 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,100 thought about how you would support. 272 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,600 I am operations. So in that sort of situation, 273 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,500 you know, you're used to getting maybe, you know, one or two 274 00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:27,600 calls a night at most and then all of a sudden it's, you know, 275 00:16:27,700 --> 00:16:32,500 all day for 23, straight days and trying to, you know, filter 276 00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:34,700 those requests for the rest of the team to keep up with it, 277 00:16:34,700 --> 00:16:37,800 became a real challenge for us. It really depends on the nature 278 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,200 of your business because like, I know probably where you were at 279 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,500 that time retail operation, where those calls her like we 280 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,700 can't sell things. We can't conduct business. 281 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,700 Three left out. Now what you know gag working 282 00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:59,200 environments where you could you could take hours or days to fix 283 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,200 problems, but not in certain environments that were certain 284 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,200 issues, right? And then here, you know, your 285 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,400 private security team. So how do you validate these 286 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,099 people who are calling when, you know, they don't remember their 287 00:17:11,099 --> 00:17:14,900 own pin numbers or Seeker questions and they haven't, you 288 00:17:14,900 --> 00:17:17,200 know, registered any of that stuff ahead of time. 289 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,000 So it becomes a real real. Pain in the butt for the 290 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,099 operation standpoint. So I'm exactly the start to work 291 00:17:24,099 --> 00:17:26,800 through self-service options on that, but it's not a cure-all. 292 00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:31,000 Even am also wondering, is that you and I have worked from home 293 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,200 for a long time. I've personally been working 294 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,800 from home full-time for over a decade. 295 00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:42,500 And are you just so many offices where they say? 296 00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:46,200 Well, you know, we've I think their culture, I'm wondering if 297 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,700 after all said and done with this, if it becomes a cultural 298 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,100 More place where they say, you know what, this couple of months 299 00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:56,800 we had everybody working from home and went pretty well. 300 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,900 Maybe we could get by with less office space or maybe we can 301 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,100 give people a better work-life balance. 302 00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:06,200 By letting them work from home. It might work out. 303 00:18:07,300 --> 00:18:09,300 Yeah, I mean that's knowledge. He's there for sure. 304 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,600 I think it's a trust issue. I think for whatever reason, 305 00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:16,400 some companies trust their employees, some don't you know 306 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,700 from from that perspective and I get it but I'm a big fan of 307 00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:21,200 working from home. I think you can be more 308 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,700 productive sometimes at home. Then you can be in the office 309 00:18:25,900 --> 00:18:30,100 but I don't know if this is the right time to measure it because 310 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,200 I feel like there would be maybe a little bit of a false 311 00:18:33,300 --> 00:18:36,600 measurement because everyone else is doing the same thing and 312 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:42,800 there's Ready, a built-in downward movement on whatever 313 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,900 industry it is, because of all the issues going on. 314 00:18:44,900 --> 00:18:47,600 So it's difficult to say. Oh, yeah, we were just as 315 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,900 effective when you know, you're, if you're have any type of 316 00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:53,900 business right now, you're probably feeling some level of 317 00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:57,800 impact with the coronavirus, you know, whether or not if it's not 318 00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,900 now, probably at some point because it's starting to trickle 319 00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:02,200 down to more and more things with the sports leagues, being 320 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,300 can't, you know, being suspended or cancelled, you know, I'm sure 321 00:19:05,308 --> 00:19:07,600 travel has taken a huge hit. Right? 322 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:08,700 You? And I were laughing earlier. 323 00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:10,600 I think we're probably the only people staying in this hotel 324 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,500 right now. Raised plenty of seats available 325 00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:15,400 on my flight from d.c. To Chicago tomorrow. 326 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,500 So I was gonna say yeah, if I haven't gotten upgraded to First 327 00:19:19,500 --> 00:19:24,200 Class very much since Northwest got bought by Delta like, you 328 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,500 know, eight years ago or whatever it was. 329 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:30,600 And I gotta create a first class in the way home, both legs. 330 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:35,300 I'm like, all right, nicely in one sense is nice, but there's 331 00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:38,600 something know it's, you know, Get upgraded from Atlanta from 332 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,700 d.c. To Atlanta out of the blue right 333 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,900 now. They'd manacled cetis always 334 00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:47,100 looking at the bright side of things. 335 00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:51,400 That's it. Yeah, there was nothing to that 336 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,800 you brought up earlier and I'll let y'all let you have it at 337 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,900 once to hear thunder. But it was around some things 338 00:19:56,900 --> 00:19:59,700 that might be taking place with more frequency when there's this 339 00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:01,500 type of situation. Yeah. 340 00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:03,600 Yeah. No, I mean, you know, sometimes 341 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,100 these kind of situations bring out the best in people. 342 00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:08,100 There's a bridge out the worst in people. 343 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:14,300 And, you know, I think that the number of scams go up when you 344 00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:16,300 have these kind of situations sometimes. 345 00:20:16,300 --> 00:20:20,200 And we all know that phishing attempts, maybe everybody who's 346 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:25,300 listening, probably gets, like, attempted to be fished like five 347 00:20:25,300 --> 00:20:27,800 times a day, you know, my, my own thing. 348 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,400 It feels like half. The email said the L people, 349 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,700 trying to get me to login to handle an issue for something. 350 00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:36,800 I didn't buy or whatever, you know. 351 00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:41,800 But I also could see the same scammers trying to play off of 352 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:46,700 this coronavirus situation. And, you know, I think the 353 00:20:46,700 --> 00:20:50,000 biggest defense against phishing again is education. 354 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,600 It's people don't know anyone. Nobody wants to get fish, but 355 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,200 people get tripped. And the thing about getting 356 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,600 tricked is, you know, usually if you're getting an email about 357 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:07,900 something, clicking the link, put you into To the scam 358 00:21:07,900 --> 00:21:10,600 website. So the best thing is if you're 359 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,600 getting asked to too late for something, don't click the link, 360 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,900 go and type the URL in your browser or something that, but 361 00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:24,000 even if you do click the link, there's ways to look at the URL 362 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,300 to make sure that you're going to something legitimate. 363 00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:28,800 So now, we're talking about things. 364 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,300 Generally. Hopefully your organization is 365 00:21:31,300 --> 00:21:37,600 put together some educational materials already with Urge to 366 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,200 avoiding being finished. I know if similar organizations 367 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:47,400 that on a routine basis go out and you know, ethically hack or 368 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,700 ethically fish their employees to find where the people are 369 00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:56,400 susceptible to this. So this might be a time where 370 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,200 you want to do that again, right? 371 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:03,200 Because I think the fear is driving people towards being 372 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:08,500 more susceptible to fall for this stuff, but it's just, you 373 00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:11,400 know, I guess the reason to bring it up is just you know, 374 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,400 sometimes these these having Adventures, provide an 375 00:22:14,408 --> 00:22:19,800 opportunity for people, people to act poorly, right? 376 00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:23,500 And, you know, the phishing campaign is definitely something 377 00:22:23,500 --> 00:22:26,500 that is part of that whole security awareness and all the 378 00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:30,400 research that I've read and seen indicates that 379 00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:33,700 dollar-for-dollar, security, awareness training and have 380 00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:37,200 provides the most value. But it's something that has to 381 00:22:37,208 --> 00:22:41,100 be continued because threats are always evolving and it's 382 00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:44,800 something that, you know, you need to continually remind your 383 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,600 Workforce of what to be on the lookout for what to expect. 384 00:22:49,100 --> 00:22:51,800 You know, if you're getting an MFA notification out of the blue 385 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,800 and you're not expecting it, don't click on it, right? 386 00:22:54,900 --> 00:22:59,100 So it's common sense. But you know, the awareness is I 387 00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:02,600 think is a big part of that and that has a big big impact on the 388 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:07,100 success of phishing emails back. To solve a completely, but, you 389 00:23:07,100 --> 00:23:09,400 know, being vigilant and knowing what to look for. 390 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,000 I think is a big, big help. You know, it's right. 391 00:23:16,300 --> 00:23:19,000 So, you know, based on coronavirus is been a lot of 392 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,200 different things happening with different conferences. 393 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,900 I was at RSA a few weeks and, you know, it was, it was a bit 394 00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:26,800 of a Down year for attendance already and I don't think it was 395 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:32,500 quite at the, at the current Panic level that we're seeing, 396 00:23:32,500 --> 00:23:35,900 but it was definitely accounted for and turns out. 397 00:23:35,900 --> 00:23:38,300 I got an email last night, informing me that there were 398 00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:41,100 people at the conference that have been infected. 399 00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:45,700 So that's something nice to get. Get octane, which is something I 400 00:23:45,700 --> 00:23:47,800 think you were going to attend in a couple weeks has been 401 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,800 canceled and to convert it into a virtual conference. 402 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,300 So disappointing. You're not going to go to San 403 00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:57,700 Francisco, but probably not as disappointed that you won't be 404 00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:01,100 improving. The odds that you might get some 405 00:24:01,100 --> 00:24:03,500 sort of issue, right? Yeah. 406 00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:06,800 I mean, obviously, I don't need any trouble right now. 407 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:12,400 I do I don't want to see, I hate the fact that the travel 408 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,500 industry taking your own. Change again, and I hate the all 409 00:24:16,700 --> 00:24:20,800 I heard about the was the conference in Austin, South by 410 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,400 Southwest, you know, they cancel that conference and then the 411 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,200 next day he had to let go of like 60 people. 412 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,200 That's hardly news. You know, I hate hearing about 413 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,900 that same time, you know, it's we talked about earlier. 414 00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:39,200 We went to slow the spread or who they calling it a slow. 415 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,700 Slow the curve or something like that. 416 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,400 Flatten, the curve. Are you saying brother? 417 00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:45,700 Words, we made this is going to spread. 418 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,900 We want to slow down the pace of which is spread so that I 419 00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:54,600 realize that showing up at the hospital I went and that we have 420 00:24:54,700 --> 00:25:02,600 resources that we can spread out and and help people at the same 421 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,600 time. So, you know, it is 422 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,500 disappointing that they're having Hampshire's not just so 423 00:25:07,500 --> 00:25:12,300 octane is the octave conference. I was going to attend I heard at 424 00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:15,300 Google and Facebook God. To cancel their conference. 425 00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:18,800 The really good thing about the way they handled the octane. 426 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,700 One egg. I think this is a lesson or I 427 00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:24,600 thought they did just a really good job and how they cancel 428 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,800 their conference. They canceled it well in 429 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,600 advance. So, you know, over four weeks in 430 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,400 advance. They refunded everybody. 431 00:25:32,700 --> 00:25:36,300 Alter money personally, good to go and apply for a refund or 432 00:25:36,300 --> 00:25:39,800 anything like that. There's plenty time to cancel 433 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,300 your hotel. Now. 434 00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:45,100 I do have a fly. It's scheduled. 435 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,500 Not going to give me the money back for the flight, but I 436 00:25:47,508 --> 00:25:50,900 didn't feel like I was taking advantage of, or anything like 437 00:25:50,900 --> 00:25:52,400 that. Like a weasel. 438 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,200 The absolute last minute to cancel, or they just cancelled 439 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,500 because other people were canceling. 440 00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:01,500 They got out ahead of it and they took care of it. 441 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,500 No, I just saw that Major League, Baseball, suspended, the 442 00:26:05,508 --> 00:26:09,200 rest of spring training. And maybe it's just because I'm 443 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,100 like, so locked into TV now, but it feels like they waited till 444 00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:17,300 the last They're like them the last major spiritually to try 445 00:26:17,300 --> 00:26:20,200 and do something about it. And it kind of felt felt to me. 446 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,500 Like the only reason they cancel is because everybody else 447 00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:27,300 canceling that they want to look like they didn't care something 448 00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:30,900 but to me, that's exactly how locally look like, you know, 449 00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:32,900 they waited till the last minute to deal with it. 450 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:34,800 Yeah. We got the leaders in the 451 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,000 flowers and I don't know if he's seen this. 452 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,200 This is something just popped up while we were talking here. 453 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,300 Is that they've actually push the baseball start date that. 454 00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:44,800 Act two weeks before the regular season. 455 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,800 Now, so things are literally changing, you know, by the 456 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,400 minute. As these organizations, try to 457 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,100 figure out, you know, how to handle this type of situation. 458 00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:57,900 And like I said, I think octave did a really good job of keeping 459 00:26:57,900 --> 00:27:00,400 people informed. And so did our SAR say sent 460 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,400 multiple emails ahead of time? And you know, I still went never 461 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,300 still plenty of attendees are over 30,000 and but there was 462 00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:10,500 plenty of hand sanitizer. And I think, you know, people 463 00:27:10,500 --> 00:27:11,700 were a little more cautious around it. 464 00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:13,400 But yeah, OCTA did a really good job. 465 00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:16,500 Got ahead of it and what I like and it's part of a silver lining 466 00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:19,700 is they've now turned it into a virtual conference which is 467 00:27:19,700 --> 00:27:22,700 going to be free. So if you weren't able to attend 468 00:27:22,700 --> 00:27:26,400 anyway, now there's you know, some, some free sessions that 469 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,300 you'll be able to get to not sure what the details are on 470 00:27:29,308 --> 00:27:30,600 that yet. And I think we're looking at 471 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,800 having Andy from OCTA. One of our friends, come on the 472 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,700 show in a couple weeks and maybe we'll have some more information 473 00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:43,000 around that time. Yeah, actually and so Jeff 474 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,200 speaking. I'm hand sanitizer going to 475 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:52,000 release the issue, just open source, your formula for the 476 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,600 hand sanitizer that's going to take over the world. 477 00:27:54,900 --> 00:27:56,800 Right? So, the standard the standard 478 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,900 recipe is two parts. Alcohol isopropyl, and one part 479 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,200 of aloe vera, right? Or gel isn't like that. 480 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,000 I think that you probably want to add maybe some bacon grease 481 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,500 to that because everyone likes bacon, right? 482 00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:13,300 Why people talk about using like, Herbal Essence. 483 00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:16,300 Something like that, you know, make it smell good, but I'm a 484 00:28:16,300 --> 00:28:18,600 bacon fan. So I think that would be great. 485 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,100 I think my dogs would love that too. 486 00:28:20,700 --> 00:28:24,400 Oh, yeah, and I think you'd also get like a nice coating of your 487 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,900 hand. So viruses, wouldn't be able to 488 00:28:26,900 --> 00:28:31,800 penetrate that greasy film that you have on your hands. 489 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,500 I Jeff, I think you're onto something here. 490 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,100 Yeah. This is kind of like what was 491 00:28:36,100 --> 00:28:37,800 that? Like, I don't there's some 492 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,900 company that makes, you know, in quotes that you can't see, you 493 00:28:40,900 --> 00:28:42,700 know, man candles or something like that. 494 00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:46,500 This could be like, Like, you know, man, man hand, sanitizers, 495 00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:50,100 like bacon. Pizza cheese burgers, you know, 496 00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:51,900 things like that. Yeah. 497 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,000 I know. There's a, there's all kinds of 498 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,900 men product. Now, there's one Walmart, their 499 00:28:58,900 --> 00:29:02,500 so-called dude, wipes to place a dude wipe. 500 00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:04,500 Someone someone's million-dollar idea. 501 00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:12,500 That was probably on Shark Tank that person's on an island 502 00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:15,000 somewhere on a boat. Yeah. 503 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:18,400 All right. I know we've been talking for a 504 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,400 while. We want to talk baseball, or do 505 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,600 you want to save that for later? No, let's have at it, man. 506 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:29,900 We, you know, I think this is probably working out well for 507 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:35,100 the Astros and the Red Sox who are, you know, the so just so 508 00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:38,500 everybody do. So, the Astros were found guilty 509 00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:44,600 of stealing signs electronically in the 2017. 18 and 20 18 510 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,900 Seasons. It's supposed to be a report 511 00:29:49,900 --> 00:29:53,300 coming out that the Red Sox in some way. 512 00:29:53,300 --> 00:30:00,300 Use technology to cheat in 2018 as a year that they pretty much 513 00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:04,400 ran the table and they want 108 games there in the pole position 514 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,600 all season long and then just dance their way through the 515 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,100 playoffs. And so the debate that you and I 516 00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:16,900 got To was. Is this really cheating? 517 00:30:17,700 --> 00:30:20,900 I come from the standpoint of, absolutely, it's cheating. 518 00:30:21,100 --> 00:30:25,200 I'm also a New York Yankees fan and the Yankees got bats out of 519 00:30:25,208 --> 00:30:28,700 the playoffs by those two cheating teams in the last few 520 00:30:28,700 --> 00:30:30,300 years. In 2017. 521 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:35,900 They got to the final game of the ALCS against the Astros who 522 00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:38,000 were stealing signs. And they lost the game in 523 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:43,200 Houston and say what they were doing was they were using the 524 00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:49,400 Centerfield camera, which is I think pretty much a public 525 00:30:50,300 --> 00:30:54,200 camera. It's what feeds the if he's the 526 00:30:54,700 --> 00:30:58,800 network TV with a view from center field and they were able 527 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,500 to then zoom in on it and they had a TV. 528 00:31:02,100 --> 00:31:07,400 They had a room set up by the Dugout in the Astros Stadium 529 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,400 Minute. Maid Park where they'd have a 530 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,700 guy watching the signs at the capture would be putting down, 531 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,300 and it was going to be a fastball. 532 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,200 Ball, he would do nothing. It was going to be a breaking 533 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,200 ball, which can be a curveball changeup, things like that. 534 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,700 But usually breaking those move, he would bang on trash can and 535 00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:30,600 based on thing on trash trash. Can this guy who's not on the 536 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,300 team? He was an employee of the 537 00:31:34,300 --> 00:31:39,900 Asher's and you could actually watch some of the game for you 538 00:31:39,900 --> 00:31:45,000 to hear the trash as saying, supposedly like that. 539 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,800 It one time where was happening in the kit. 540 00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:50,400 The catcher got up. He's like, okay, I put down the 541 00:31:50,408 --> 00:31:52,200 sides. There is that damn trash can 542 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:57,200 again, and, you know, I think the argument you were making was 543 00:31:57,900 --> 00:32:01,600 well, person first argument that I would make is that they 544 00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:08,700 explicitly banned using technology in game two, still 545 00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:11,600 signs. So, there are very clear about 546 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,500 your not to do this, but I think the That you were raising was 547 00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:18,400 well was the court should not good enough. 548 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,800 In other words, where they're signaling of the signs. 549 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,200 Not good enough. The thing is that when the 550 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,800 catcher to the pitcher signals are kind of brought back to what 551 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:36,200 was encryption in 1925 and you're comparing it with. 552 00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:41,700 I can watch you from center field, using a high-tech camera. 553 00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:47,400 And you know, you know, I It's combination of the, if they put 554 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,400 down one time. It's obvious that they put down 555 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,800 multiple signs, you know, a lot of times people are good at, 556 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,400 figuring out indicators and things like that. 557 00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:00,300 So, an indicator would be something like when I put down a 558 00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:04,400 to the next sign is going to be the pitcher when you throw. 559 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,900 So I might put down a 3 which would be a slider. 560 00:33:07,300 --> 00:33:11,900 Or if it done the to I put down a 1 and B, throw a fastball and 561 00:33:12,100 --> 00:33:15,300 so basically those any kind of form of encryption are human. 562 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,600 Is like, we agree, you know, before the pictures trailer, 563 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,500 before we start the Inning on, like, what the? 564 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,600 I'm just using my hands to show signals or my fingers. 565 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,300 And you're comparing that with using high-tech equipment. 566 00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:34,800 That's why they banned it. If we're saying that hey the 567 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,400 catcher's going to have a little microphone. 568 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:44,200 He can tell the pitch to the picture or I don't know, some 569 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,200 way you push a Yeah, I like a little phony, get some text 570 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,100 messages, a picture and say poor Francisco. 571 00:33:51,300 --> 00:33:53,700 I'd love to see a catcher. Try to send a text message with 572 00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:55,500 that glove on his hand. Yeah. 573 00:33:55,500 --> 00:33:57,400 Yeah. I do PS4 unto its own. 574 00:33:58,500 --> 00:34:00,300 I guess. We really haven't figured out 575 00:34:00,300 --> 00:34:06,000 what exactly fair comparison would be. 576 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,800 But ultimately, what it is that you've got this encryption 577 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,300 methodology that is based on non-technology. 578 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,900 And using technology to break it, and the gave up one team of 579 00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:23,600 distinct advantage over the other and to me, that's got 580 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,800 shooting. But more than that. 581 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,600 It was explicitly banned. He said, don't do this and they 582 00:34:30,300 --> 00:34:34,000 anyway. So I'm definitely not a baseball 583 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,600 fan and I don't know, all the ins and outs and the rules and 584 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,600 was banned or whatever. But, for my completely, Layman's 585 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:49,900 view of what happened the way I see it is that that the Astros 586 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,500 were able to, basically hack the teams. 587 00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:55,900 They were playing against by figuring out what their password 588 00:34:55,900 --> 00:35:00,000 was. And those teams didn't do 589 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:05,400 anything to guard against that, it didn't change signs in the 590 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,100 middle of a game. Or maybe if they did they just 591 00:35:08,100 --> 00:35:11,500 got react again. So it's almost like, you know, 592 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,900 the Astros were Brute Force hacking the signals from the 593 00:35:14,900 --> 00:35:18,800 catcher to the pitcher and obviously that gives then, you 594 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,900 know the benefit of knowing whether a breaking ball is 595 00:35:20,900 --> 00:35:24,500 coming or not so you can lay off or, you know, Swing Away on a 596 00:35:24,500 --> 00:35:29,900 fastball but I put it also on the security of that 597 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,100 conversation between the catcher and the Pitcher, no different 598 00:35:34,100 --> 00:35:38,500 than me standing at second base, watching as well and figuring it 599 00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:40,100 out. Or, you know, sometimes the 600 00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:44,300 bullpen is all the way out and, you know, in the Outfield around 601 00:35:44,300 --> 00:35:46,500 it, you know, I'm the bass lines, things like that. 602 00:35:46,500 --> 00:35:50,200 So I think the catch here and I wasn't aware of, this was the 603 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,400 electronic use, but if I was sitting in the stands and just 604 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,400 watching with a pair of binoculars, I could figure out 605 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,100 the same way. It wasn't like there was, you 606 00:36:00,100 --> 00:36:03,600 know, this super Advanced, you know. 607 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,300 Hacking machine that was doing, it was someone who literally 608 00:36:08,300 --> 00:36:10,900 watching and saying, okay, I figured it out. 609 00:36:11,300 --> 00:36:12,800 Now. Let me go tell my guys what it 610 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,700 is. So one thing from kind of 611 00:36:15,700 --> 00:36:20,300 baseball tradition standpoint is that usually when Teamster down 612 00:36:20,300 --> 00:36:23,900 multiple signs in other words, you know in a very simple 613 00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:25,400 scenario. Put that into 1, that means 614 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,900 throw fastball, but don't to the Meuse or curveball. 615 00:36:29,300 --> 00:36:32,400 However, when you have somebody on base, typically what they do 616 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,500 is they put down multiple signs and maybe it's the third sign or 617 00:36:36,500 --> 00:36:40,300 maybe it's the last sign that I put down, but that's the that 618 00:36:40,300 --> 00:36:42,400 you throw. So yes, I salt it. 619 00:36:43,300 --> 00:36:46,300 It's salted, right? It's not quite hash, but it's 620 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,400 somehow makes up you only do that. 621 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,700 Typically, when there's a guy on second because it's a guy on 622 00:36:52,700 --> 00:36:55,200 first or third. They can't see between your 623 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,900 legs. And so, you know, this is 624 00:36:57,900 --> 00:37:03,400 baseball tradition. I think it I think this is also, 625 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,000 this is Sport. So there is a gaming aspect to 626 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,500 it. But there's also a certain level 627 00:37:08,500 --> 00:37:11,500 of Ethics expected out of the sport. 628 00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:14,600 It's kind of like let's say you were in a fantasy football 629 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:19,800 league and I somehow, you know, broke into your account and 630 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:24,600 change your change your line up, right before the games. 631 00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:28,800 And I said, well, you didn't set your password strong enough. 632 00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:34,000 Of, dude, you cheated. Let's be real. 633 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,200 You cheated, just because I didn't set my security from him 634 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,300 out. You don't break into somebody's 635 00:37:39,300 --> 00:37:44,400 account, and, and do that. So, I think that there's a 636 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:50,900 certain level of Ethics involved, and I think there is 637 00:37:50,900 --> 00:37:52,500 definitely the ethics, part of it. 638 00:37:52,700 --> 00:37:55,300 It's a question new. If the catcher knew that you 639 00:37:55,308 --> 00:37:57,500 were using the center-field camera, that was even a 640 00:37:57,500 --> 00:38:00,100 possibility. Then they would change, they 641 00:38:00,100 --> 00:38:03,900 would have to do the multiple signs, every pitch. 642 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,100 And I think then if it's like, that was a Level Playing Field 643 00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:11,300 and that would be one thing. But it was kind of like, whoa, 644 00:38:11,300 --> 00:38:13,600 you're doing something that we all know you're not allowed to 645 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,200 do. Nobody else is doing it because 646 00:38:17,100 --> 00:38:19,100 baseball sending members saying, don't do it. 647 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,700 So, he didn't think they had seems the same for nobody was on 648 00:38:21,700 --> 00:38:26,000 second base, but apparently you didn't get the memo. 649 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:31,400 Did you get the memo? Well, I think there was also it 650 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:36,800 was kind of a enough as if hearsay or, you know, rumor 651 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,200 going around of it. So, I don't think it was 652 00:38:39,500 --> 00:38:40,700 something that just came out of the blue. 653 00:38:40,700 --> 00:38:43,600 I think people suspected something was going on and I 654 00:38:43,607 --> 00:38:48,300 still think that, you know, the probably could have done more to 655 00:38:48,300 --> 00:38:54,300 secure that communication knowing that this has been heard 656 00:38:54,300 --> 00:38:57,500 of talked about. And, you know, there was a 657 00:38:58,100 --> 00:39:00,900 suspicion. Something was taking place, and 658 00:39:00,900 --> 00:39:03,700 yet, they, you know, it seems like at least, you know, teams 659 00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:07,900 didn't really take it seriously or even do anything or at least 660 00:39:07,900 --> 00:39:13,000 enough to, you know, prevent the interception of those calls and 661 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,300 then being able to relay it back to the player lose. 662 00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:17,400 Another thing. That's an interesting angle. 663 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:23,200 So Mo be is decided to come out and say, you know, we're Banning 664 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,700 the use of technology for stealing signs. 665 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,700 There was Ice question. Well, why why not? 666 00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:31,900 I mean, using more technology throughout the game. 667 00:39:31,900 --> 00:39:35,700 I mean, you can't watch a baseball game today without 668 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:40,600 getting the Amazon web services statcast information. 669 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,300 Every player is slow motion reviewed. 670 00:39:44,300 --> 00:39:47,500 If necessary, they're talking about having an electronic 671 00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:49,200 Strike Zone. And some point. 672 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,800 I think they're experimenting with it and some leaves. 673 00:39:52,900 --> 00:39:56,700 So the bottom line is, that technology is becoming more and 674 00:39:56,707 --> 00:40:00,000 more the game. Why not rather than Saying, you 675 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:05,800 can't still signs using electronics that you just get 676 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,300 rid of this, this archaic way of giving sandwiching, the catcher 677 00:40:09,300 --> 00:40:14,000 to the Pitcher, have some kind of device, obviously technically 678 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:18,500 a text message, but have something for him to send 679 00:40:18,500 --> 00:40:22,600 information back to the picture. So that, you know, he can be 680 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,200 getting a message and not have to worry about science. 681 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,800 The only thing I can say is this is always been my thing. 682 00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:32,100 Doing about baseball. There's no, for more technology 683 00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:36,500 used the more, you separate the pro game and The Sandlot game, 684 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:44,000 and the further less alike. They are the less interesting. 685 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,700 It is to me to play, send letters little kid, you know, 686 00:40:47,700 --> 00:40:51,700 when I grew up playing, Sandlot boys, pretty much, you know, the 687 00:40:51,700 --> 00:40:55,300 same technology that they use from the big losers, pretty much 688 00:40:55,300 --> 00:41:01,400 men. And now we have And electronic 689 00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:04,500 are potentially upcoming electronic strikes on this not 690 00:41:04,500 --> 00:41:09,400 in place today, but instant replay and and all these other 691 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,200 things. So it's a balance. 692 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,800 I think it's about that. One thing about baseball as 693 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,800 compared to all the other sports as like tradition is considered 694 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,600 sacred. How so when you know, people got 695 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,500 really mad about Barry Bonds. Breaking the homerun record is 696 00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:31,400 because like You know, it's like the members that you're throwing 697 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:36,600 up or just absolutely ludicrous and a guy like Henry Aaron took 698 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:41,100 20 years to hit all those home runs and you know, then Barry 699 00:41:41,100 --> 00:41:44,800 Bonds comes along and takes steroids and he's hit maybe home 700 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,700 runs a year and would never been done before. 701 00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:51,400 So that's why people, it has to be. 702 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,200 So give them are upset about that stuff. 703 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:57,900 I think than other sports. Well, I still haunt him. 704 00:41:57,900 --> 00:42:00,900 I promise it. Essentially the Astros hat, all 705 00:42:00,900 --> 00:42:03,700 the teams are playing against figured out their balls and, you 706 00:42:03,700 --> 00:42:08,600 know, their pitch selection passwords and exploited. 707 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:09,700 It. Should they have done it. 708 00:42:09,707 --> 00:42:12,600 Now, they use technology that wasn't known as well. 709 00:42:13,100 --> 00:42:15,400 But that's how I'm looking at it. 710 00:42:15,700 --> 00:42:19,300 I know worry about up on time, but let's go back to three years 711 00:42:19,300 --> 00:42:23,400 ago when the st. Louis Cardinals hired away. 712 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:28,200 Somebody from the Astros that guy came over to the Cardinals, 713 00:42:28,300 --> 00:42:29,800 they never Locked out his account. 714 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:31,600 There's a real. I am issue. 715 00:42:32,100 --> 00:42:33,100 There were locked out his account. 716 00:42:33,100 --> 00:42:38,100 He went back over and was somehow able to log into their 717 00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:42,000 scouting system was old credentials and download a bunch 718 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,500 of data. You got caught the ash, the 719 00:42:45,100 --> 00:42:49,100 Cardinals and really wrinkled. The penalty was pretty severe. 720 00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:51,900 I think a few people got fired over it. 721 00:42:52,100 --> 00:42:56,200 But, you know, is that all gamesmanship? 722 00:42:57,100 --> 00:43:01,600 Let's say you, I say no, I think that's clearly not on the field. 723 00:43:03,300 --> 00:43:07,800 And I think that was, that was purely a reason to make sure you 724 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,200 have good. I'm off boarding. 725 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:15,400 Procedure is employees. I think that's how I am ruling 726 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:21,700 that as a poor off-boarding performance by I guess it was 727 00:43:21,700 --> 00:43:24,400 Houston, right? Yes. 728 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,600 I think that's corporate Espionage. 729 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,600 And I think they did the right thing throwing the book at them. 730 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:35,200 But I also think that the scientist Is cheating as well? 731 00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:40,100 I think it's, I think it's cheating as well. 732 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,600 But I think the team should have done better at trying to guard 733 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,700 against it. It's like saying, you know, you 734 00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:49,200 shouldn't hack, my password. People are gonna do it. 735 00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:52,800 Right. So expect expect to try and put 736 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,000 some defenses up against it. Yeah. 737 00:43:55,700 --> 00:43:59,100 It did. The only difference again my 738 00:43:59,100 --> 00:44:01,500 final argument. The only difference is that this 739 00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:05,700 is a sport where certain level Of Ethics are required, and it 740 00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:11,800 was teams within the same week. This Wilson like the cold war, 741 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,800 like Russia versus United States or something like that. 742 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,500 It's right. You know, this is a really 743 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:24,600 friendly league of colleagues. It's just a game. 744 00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:29,200 Yeah, but that's what we get all excited about. 745 00:44:29,500 --> 00:44:30,200 Yep. Exactly. 746 00:44:31,300 --> 00:44:32,600 All right. I think we're in pretty good 747 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,400 shot. We can shape, we can probably 748 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,200 wrap it up there and now you're going to catch a flight here in 749 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,200 a little bit, kind of a weird show. 750 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:41,900 I think for us today because you're kind of little bit all 751 00:44:41,900 --> 00:44:45,400 over the place talking about world events and little bit of 752 00:44:45,408 --> 00:44:47,200 baseball. And by the time folks here this 753 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,700 it'll be Monday the 16th probably. 754 00:44:50,700 --> 00:44:54,700 So we'll see how the situation changed last couple days, but 755 00:44:54,700 --> 00:44:58,000 hopefully we gave you guys some some food for thought and some 756 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,300 ideas and how to maybe approach some of the issues that D come 757 00:45:01,300 --> 00:45:05,100 out of here with the virus impact, or other things to think 758 00:45:05,100 --> 00:45:07,400 about. If you've got questions or 759 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:12,100 comments or you think I'm crazy about the Astros hacking every 760 00:45:12,100 --> 00:45:14,900 team, they faced with a pitch selection, you know, you can 761 00:45:14,900 --> 00:45:18,400 feel free to email us at questions at identity at the 762 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,700 center.com and on behalf of Jim will talk to you guys in the 763 00:45:22,707 --> 00:45:34,700 next one. You've been listening to the 764 00:45:34,700 --> 00:45:38,400 identity of the center podcast for more episodes of visit 765 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,200 identity at the center.com.