1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:10,440 This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with 2 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:17,960 IAM, this is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and 3 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:23,160 Jeff Stedman. Welcome to the Identity at the 4 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:24,880 Center podcast. I'm Jeff and that's Jim. 5 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:26,680 Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff, how are you? 6 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:28,440 Not so bad yourself. Doing great. 7 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,600 Really excited about the episode today. 8 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,560 Salto dot IO or Salto as the company is called. 9 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:39,840 I first got introduced to them at the Octane 2023 conference. 10 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,160 They had a booth near where I was sitting and I thought, you 11 00:00:43,160 --> 00:00:45,680 know, I've got all these identity at the center stickers. 12 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,240 Obviously I can trade them. They're like currency. 13 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,400 Go around. You can trade them for whatever 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:55,280 booth giveaways they had. And they had these killer socks. 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,640 And so I still wear these socks, right? 16 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,840 But I I just had to find out what do they do. 17 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:06,080 And they solved a problem that became apparent to me, you know, 18 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,480 many years ago in one of my first Okta projects. 19 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,480 And as I was going through this project, my question was, OK, 20 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,920 well, how do we take the configurations from a lower 21 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,520 environment and move them into production? 22 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,120 And the answer was, well, basically just redo them in 23 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,520 production. And it was a blank stare and a 24 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,280 moment of silence because it was like, seriously, that's the 25 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,120 answer. And so I just for years and 26 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,320 years that was the answer. And these folks at the booth 27 00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:37,760 explained to me like that's the problem we solved and they 28 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,520 showed it to me. I'm like, Oh my goodness, so 29 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,200 much better than the socks. And these were good socks. 30 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,520 But that was like it was like an eye opening experience. 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,120 So really kept these guys in mind, and I talked to many 32 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,240 clients about that over the years, and today we're gonna 33 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,440 have an episode about it. Yeah, why don't we go ahead and 34 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,760 talk about that episode? So today definitely is a fully 35 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,080 sponsored episode sponsor Spotlight as we call it. 36 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,560 We have collaborated with our friends over at Salto to create 37 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,840 this special discussion that we'll talk about get to learn 38 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,000 more about Salto. I'm not super familiar with it, 39 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:11,120 Jimmy. You're more familiar than I am 40 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,040 with it. But I think this is also maybe 41 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,200 the first time you've heard the term stare and compare. 42 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:16,760 Is that right? You've not heard that? 43 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,440 Before exactly. That's the origin of that. 44 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,080 And I've I've stolen that. Actually, people didn't know 45 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,280 that that wasn't mine, so now they know. 46 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,520 Well, to be fair, I've heard that one for years, at least 10 47 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,760 years ago, so I was a little bit shocked. 48 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,400 But hey, we always learned that they knew, right? 49 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:34,920 So today's sponsored episode is by Salto. 50 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,760 They specialize in DevOps for business apps. 51 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:39,920 You can find them on the web at salto dot IO. 52 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,840 We have a special web page salto dot IO slash idac and that's 53 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:45,360 where you can find out more information. 54 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,160 I'm excited to welcome Gil Hoffer. 55 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,520 He's the Co founder and CTO at Salto. 56 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,520 Welcome to the show, Gil. Thank you, Jeff, and thank you, 57 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,000 Jim. Thank you for having me. 58 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:56,440 Yeah. Thanks for taking the time. 59 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,680 And obviously Jim is has got a little more I think insight into 60 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,480 what you guys work on. But I always like to start with 61 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,680 the person, tell me a little bit about your identity origin 62 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,320 story. How did you get into the world 63 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,280 of identity? Is it something that you chose 64 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,600 or did it choose you? Great question. 65 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:18,120 So well obviously Identity is part of everyone, right, but in 66 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,720 the in the context of computers and and software. 67 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,080 So I think the first time that I started dealing with Identity 68 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,240 was in my previous company when we had to start building some 69 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,440 SSO solutions etcetera. So that's the first time that I 70 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:38,600 started learning about it. And then in salto our customers 71 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,600 all the time talks with us. Well, we understand what you're 72 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,440 doing, but can we do it with Octa? 73 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,880 Can we do it with Azure ID or Entra etcetera. 74 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,680 So they they pulled us back in. I thought I was out of the 75 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,880 Identity game, but they pulled us back in. 76 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:56,680 That's how the identity space works, right? 77 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,320 Just when you think you've escaped orbit. 78 00:03:58,320 --> 00:03:59,960 Nope. There's some gravitational pull 79 00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:04,720 that that brings you back in. Jim mentioned what he sees Salto 80 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:05,920 is doing. But I want to give you the 81 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:07,200 opportunity, right? You're the expert. 82 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,200 Tell us more about Salto. What do you do? 83 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,760 Of course so at Salto we're a DevOps platform for managing the 84 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,360 configurations of business and IT applications. 85 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:23,640 So as you all know, typically a modern company is using a few 86 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,400 10s if not hundreds of those applications SAS applications. 87 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,720 Typically to run their business, you would need to configure or 88 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,320 customize them in order to in order for them to fit your 89 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,760 business processes. Typically this is being done 90 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:43,440 very manually using UI, no low code kind of ways. 91 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,120 And at SALTO, we enable our customers to bring all of those 92 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,400 best practices and processes that are typically being used 93 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,480 for development and DevOps and rely on the fact that we're not 94 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,440 using AUI to do all of those, whether we have code and we 95 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,200 enable our customers to to use these kind of IDs when managing 96 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,120 those configurations. So instead of just clicking and 97 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,040 steering and comparing and having endless spreadsheets with 98 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,840 everything that we've done, we can use git, we can automate 99 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,040 changes, we can implement once in a sandbox and then deploy 100 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:16,880 those changes to production etcetera. 101 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:21,400 Everything becomes much more process oriented, automated, 102 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,240 repeatable, just like the way that we typically work with 103 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:29,120 DevOps and and code, but applied to the different business and IT 104 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,440 applications that we support. So what was the genesis for this 105 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,400 idea of Salto? How did this thing get started? 106 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,360 What was the the idea that I was like, oh, we need to do 107 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,200 something about this? Yeah. 108 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,800 So, well, for that, I need to go back to our previous company, so 109 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,880 before Salto with a company called Ravello, Ravello Systems 110 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,760 and a very different domain. And we were actually an 111 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,120 infrastructure virtualization company. 112 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,440 We're a virtual cloud provider. We develop our own hypervisor 113 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,280 and virtual networking, virtual storage etcetera. 114 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:03,920 And for the SAS company, I started around 2011 and as any 115 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,960 other company those days we're using all kind of different SAS 116 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:09,360 applications run our business, right. 117 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,240 So Salesforce and NetSuite and Zendesk and Girai and Mercado 118 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,760 etcetera. And frankly speaking, the way 119 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,800 we're managing those business applications, it was probably 120 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,960 the least professional thing that we did in that company. 121 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,160 It was like that host potato that we kept on bouncing between 122 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,520 departments and all kind of consultants helping us. 123 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,880 And really no one knew what's going on with those 124 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,200 applications. And luckily the business with 125 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,000 Ravel picked up very nicely and the company grew quite a lot. 126 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,040 And then at one point in time, I remember I was running 127 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,640 engineering back then we had a project to redo our pricing 128 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,600 scheme and I was sizing the project. 129 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,120 I said well, yeah, it will take us about two months to implement 130 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,040 this. And then I remember it as if it 131 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:58,800 was yesterday. I remember our VP of Product 132 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,320 Management coming into my room and asking me, well Gil, I 133 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,680 understand that you say that it will take two months in the 134 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,880 product, but what about the implication on on Salesforce and 135 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,920 and the NetSuite? And I was looking at him and I 136 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,560 told him, well, I don't know anything about those systems. 137 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,200 Let's let's look and obviously there were all kinds of 138 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,360 implications and we started pulling the responsibility over 139 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,120 those systems in house into engineering, started shifting 140 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,400 resources etcetera. Things got slightly better. 141 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,960 Then it was early 2016, we got acquired by Oracle. 142 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:37,880 Now one might imagine that Oracle great respectful company 143 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,880 knows how to manage these kind of systems, right. 144 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:47,240 So after we got acquired, everything became so much more 145 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,320 complicated in the way that we manage all of those systems 146 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,480 including identity by the way, where the interesting project 147 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,800 about integrating the different identity systems. 148 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:02,640 And we realized that things that typically when we manage in in 149 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,240 code, in a system the way that we're used to would take us a 150 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,680 few days, takes us many, many months to actually achieve and 151 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,280 implement. That's when we started looking 152 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,200 very deeply into the way that companies manage their business 153 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:19,080 and IT applications. And we realized that the way 154 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,720 that those systems are typically being managed, it feels very 155 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,120 similar to the way that IT infrastructure was managed about 156 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:28,520 20 years ago. About 20 years. 157 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,960 I was managing a large team that dealt a lot with data centers. 158 00:08:32,039 --> 00:08:35,000 And a typical guy on my team would start his day with a box 159 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,280 in his hand, go down to the data center, put that server into a 160 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,760 rack, pull out one of those nifty foldable keyboards, and 161 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,520 start typing commands all day long. 162 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:48,200 Right. Installing stuff, obviously not 163 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:54,240 scalable, very error prone. And back then, well, the IT 164 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,240 organizations dealt with it like they know with red tape and 165 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,360 bureaucracy and you got an SLA of two months for a new server, 166 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:02,920 etcetera. Who remembers those days. 167 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:08,560 And the way that the industry dealt with that was by importing 168 00:09:08,560 --> 00:09:11,840 best practices from the way that we used to manage software and 169 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,960 applied into the way that we manage infrastructure. 170 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:19,480 So all of a sudden it wasn't an IT person going into the data 171 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,040 centre. It was automation with, if you 172 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,640 remember Chef and Puppet and these kind of projects back then 173 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,520 and today, it's all about infrastructure is code. 174 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:32,080 So you Terraform for example, so you can manage everything in a 175 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:36,360 source control repository. But at the core of it is that we 176 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,680 enabled the industry, as an industry to manage 177 00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:42,240 infrastructure the same way that we manage code. 178 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,600 Everything became very repeatable, well defined 179 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,080 etcetera. By the way that we manage the 180 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,720 configuration of our business and IT applications. 181 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,560 It still looks like 20 years ago, everything so manual done 182 00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:57,720 directly in production or if you would like to do it in a in a in 183 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,920 a staging environment or development environment before 184 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,200 you would typically document it meticulously and then repeat 185 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,320 those changes again as Jim mentioned before. 186 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,880 So that was a realization that, well, we understand the problem. 187 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,880 It was already solved in a different domain, All right. 188 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,600 That feels like a good idea, good business to start. 189 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,000 And let's bring all those goodies to the way that 190 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,960 organizations manage their business and IT applications. 191 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,360 So that was around five years ago when we started a company. 192 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:29,320 And today it's really exciting because we have so many 193 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,160 customers using us to manage those critical systems. 194 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:34,840 And I just took it a few days ago. 195 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:39,000 So five different continents across all kind of different 196 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:40,920 applications, a different domain. 197 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,680 So that's a lot of fun that. Sounds pretty exciting and I 198 00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:47,120 wanna we wanna ask definitely some questions about how this 199 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:48,720 works right and use cases and things like that. 200 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,520 But I think I am always interested to hear about company 201 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,000 names. How did you come up with the 202 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,800 name Salto? Why call it that? 203 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:03,360 Yeah well it's not the it's not the best story but so as I 204 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,240 mentioned before Salto with a company called Rovello Rovello 205 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:11,680 Systems and in Salto of two two Co founders and before Revelo 206 00:11:11,680 --> 00:11:15,440 they had two other companies. One of the the one before Revelo 207 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,960 was called Kumarnet with AQ and the one before Kumarnet would 208 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:24,680 was called Pentagon with AP. So you might imagine it was PQR. 209 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:29,880 We needed something that starts with an S and then we needed it 210 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,320 to be short and the domain to be available. 211 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:36,200 And just as we're about to start, Salto Rami, my partner 212 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:41,080 and CEO, he was earning Italian, he he was earning Italian. 213 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,560 He went to Rome for a few months in order to brush his Italian, 214 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:52,120 and he suggested a saltare. A saltare in in Italian means to 215 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,280 jump to leap. And I told him, well Rami, it's 216 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,240 it's too long, no one will be able to actually pronounce it 217 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:03,400 correctly. And Salto, both in Italian and 218 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:08,120 in Spanish it means to leap. It's basically the the noun of 219 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:13,600 Philippe like somersault and and we thought that it is also a 220 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:18,440 nice metaphor because we're basically enabling the industry 221 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,440 to leap forward and take all of those IDs that I mentioned 222 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,680 before and apply them here. So connect all those. 223 00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:29,720 The fact that it starts with an S that it is metaphorically 224 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:34,400 relevant to what we're doing and the domain was available that's 225 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,800 the company name and there are by the way there are endless 226 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,360 pans that we're using on Salto. We'll get to it as we talked 227 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,480 about the the technology. Yeah, having the domain 228 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:49,040 available is is very key, you know, right. 229 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,560 I thought of and realized that as I was doing that introduction 230 00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:56,680 earlier and talking about my early experience with Okta may 231 00:12:56,680 --> 00:13:01,240 have come off as like, Oh no, he's kind of criticizing the 232 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,480 Okta's approaches. But the reality of it is, is 233 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:09,200 they've opened the API to make it available for Salto to even 234 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,240 exist. If it wasn't for the API, 235 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,360 there's no way you could have the Salto product be able to do 236 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:16,760 what it does. Is that correct? 237 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:21,440 Yeah, it's 100% correct. And without API wouldn't be able 238 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,400 to do that. And the problems that we're 239 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,760 dealing with in SALTO, they're not specific to Octa. 240 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,720 So it's actually quite common. For example, support Zendesk and 241 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,520 Dura and Salesforce and NetSuite and and multiple different 242 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,320 applications. It is quite common that there is 243 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,960 no way to actually deploy changes from a lower environment 244 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:45,680 to a higher environment. And come to think of it, there 245 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:49,920 is a lot of investment that those vendors need to make in 246 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:54,000 order to to make it available to very easily have sandboxes that 247 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,920 are synced from production to be to make it easy to deploy those 248 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,040 changes and to understand what are the difference between 249 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,440 different environments etcetera. It's not surprising that those 250 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,680 features are missing in many cases, because for every vendor 251 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:10,840 to build them it's it's costly. No, it's good. 252 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,840 So it's kind of a tip of the cap to them. 253 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,280 One of the things that one of the things that I want to make 254 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:21,040 sure that we don't do is, you know leave anyone in the dust in 255 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,400 terms of explaining what Salto does. 256 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,800 So I was wondering if you could, thinking of it from the 257 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,400 perspective of an Oct administrator, what would they 258 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,520 use Salto for and how would they go about doing that? 259 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,160 Yeah, of course. Great question, Jim. 260 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:40,520 So typically an Octa administrator let's try and 261 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:45,200 portray a day in his life. OK, so let's say there's a 262 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,760 requirement to go and implement a certain change to the to the 263 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:53,160 configuration of Octa, let's say to some authentication policy. 264 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:58,800 So the first step for the for the admin to do is first of all 265 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,880 to analyze what would be the impact of that change. 266 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,680 So what are all the other configuration elements or parts 267 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,520 of the implementation that will be impacted by that change. 268 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:15,160 Then that admin would go and implement the change in a 269 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,320 development environment that should be very similar to the 270 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,800 production environment. And after testing, you should 271 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,280 eventually also be able to deploy those changes to 272 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,240 production while also being able to roll back if needed. 273 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,280 So that's what the admin needs to do. 274 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,480 Now let's describe how it does that with Salto. 275 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,440 So with Salto, the admin will have all of his environments, 276 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,680 all of his different tenants connected to Salto, and Salto 277 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,120 automatically reads the configuration of all of those 278 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,720 tenants on the background. We use those APIs. 279 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,560 We read all of the data all the time and we use a format which 280 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,720 we call NaCl Knuckle which stands for not in our 281 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,720 configuration language and just happens to be the chemical sign 282 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,560 formula of salt. So we read all of that 283 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,920 configuration into Salto and the first thing that we enabled that 284 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,360 admin is visibility. So you can very easily 285 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,680 understand what is that you have implemented. 286 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,080 You can very easily understand all of different dependencies. 287 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,600 So for example, looking at that specific policy, what is it 288 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,480 dependent on and what depends on it? 289 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,120 So we'll be able to know what we might break when we make that 290 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,600 change. Then that admin would go into 291 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,120 the lower environment that should be synced from 292 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,520 production. We can help with that as well. 293 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,560 Implement the relevant change in Octa using the UI doesn't need 294 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,320 to change the way that he works in his day-to-day. 295 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,720 And then Salter would automatically detect what was 296 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:45,080 changed in that environment, show it to the user, enable it, 297 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:49,360 enable him or her to also push those changes into Git. 298 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,560 So we'll have proper paper trail for everything that was changed 299 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,960 and deploy those changes to the higher environment. 300 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:01,320 So in alternative universe, what you should have done is develop 301 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:05,920 those changes in that in that lower environment in Octa test, 302 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,560 right, Typically and we see it with customers having like very 303 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,359 long spreadsheets which document everything that they changed and 304 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,760 then they would need to go and reimplement those changes in 305 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,119 production. And this is extremely risky 306 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,520 because there might be all kind of differences between a 307 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,520 different environment that he is not aware of. 308 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,720 And then the fact that it tested something on the lower 309 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,560 environment is almost meaningless because it typically 310 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,280 would have tested it on a different environment. 311 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,120 He's unaware of the differences between those different changes. 312 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,440 And then when deploying to production only production is 313 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,280 the environment which is representative in this case. 314 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:45,960 So that would be the alternative. 315 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:51,120 Obviously for a smaller Octa setup it might be OK because the 316 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:57,360 configuration might be in a scope that one can understand on 317 00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:00,960 his own sound for customers. We're talking about teams of 318 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,480 10/15/20 Octa, administrators in a single organization, in a 319 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,400 single tenant, managing 100,150 thousand users. 320 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:13,720 That configuration is insane in most cases. 321 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,680 And going and implementing a change directly in production, 322 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,880 for example, or a massive change in a in a preview tenant and 323 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,520 then reimplementing it in production, that's a very risky 324 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,480 move. By the way, you didn't lose me 325 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:35,920 on that NaCl sodium chloride, which I mean, when you figured 326 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,160 that out or that came up, you must have just like that must 327 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,120 have been quite the moment. Yeah, I remember. 328 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:49,920 Yeah, I don't want to blame for the for that name because we're 329 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,320 sitting in a room and we're saying, well, we need to have a 330 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,160 name for our language. What are we going to call it? 331 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,720 And then I was just playing with with all kind of letters so well 332 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:01,920 and it's still that's that's clever. 333 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:08,800 Very clever, very clever. So I think he got into why it's 334 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,840 problematic or risky to do things manually. 335 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,840 Is that what most organizations are doing that don't use salto? 336 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,920 Are they doing it manually or are they kind of rolling their 337 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,320 own solution? So typically we're seeing one of 338 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,560 three alternatives. The organizations are really 339 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,400 unaware of the risk and they just go and make changes 340 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,160 directly in production and they don't care. 341 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:38,040 In many cases, the bulk of the organizations that we're seeing, 342 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,040 they're very much aware of the risk and then they would 343 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:46,440 typically deal with it in a process kind of solution, 344 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,520 meaning that they will have lots of documentation would go and 345 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,760 implement those changes typically three times. 346 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,200 Typically it will be in a development environment, then in 347 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,400 testing environment or UAT, then in production environment. 348 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,760 And the way that those changes would work would be manual with. 349 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,120 Very careful documentation in spreadsheets, in tickets, 350 00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:12,320 etcetera for these for these organizations, we both reduce 351 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,160 risk but also reduce a lot of manual work. 352 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,360 Meaning we have, we've seen, we see with sound for customers 353 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,240 processes that used to take them many days if not weeks are 354 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,480 reduced to minutes because there's no need to create a 355 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,640 documentation. That documentation is basically 356 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,880 the state of the system that we look at and you don't need to 357 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,480 reimplement those changes because just click a button and 358 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,920 deploy etcetera. The third type of organizations 359 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,920 are the ones who these are the most advanced. 360 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,600 These are companies that typically adopt for example 361 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:50,560 Terraform as a way to manage their Octa tenants and that it 362 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,320 deals with the bulk of the issues that I mentioned. 363 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,200 But it creates other challenges because for those of you are 364 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,640 familiar with Terraform, Terraform is a very popular open 365 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,600 source project and infrastructure for managing 366 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,920 typically infrastructure like AWS tenants etcetera. 367 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:12,800 The main challenge there is that they would need to go and create 368 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,520 HCL files or Terraform files that describe the configuration 369 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:22,800 that they would like to deploy. So typically Octa admins are 370 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,320 experts in Octa, meaning they really know the way around Octa 371 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,840 and the Octa UI and creating policies and they're experts in 372 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,120 identity and access management, etcetera. 373 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:39,400 Creating those directly in Terra forms HCL can be very 374 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:44,360 challenging and time consuming. So yeah, yeah, just staring. 375 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:47,480 And compare, I mean I I think that's the most common, right, 376 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,840 especially for Octa organizations that are 377 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:55,600 organizations that are smaller kind of have a limited budget, 378 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,880 limited scope of Okta. That's what they're doing to me. 379 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:03,240 It's extremely dangerous because you can miss type A 380 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,880 configuration. Other words you brought it over 381 00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:09,600 but you left out a letter or you know how many times do we 382 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,160 misspell things in our day-to-day lives where you know 383 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,440 fortunately we have spell check there to to save us, right. 384 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,520 We we think there's only 1L in in in a word and there's really 385 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:25,280 two that that kind of thing and it can take you hours to find 386 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,080 out. So not only do you have to stare 387 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,520 and compare it correctly, but if you do your push and it's not 388 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,960 working now you've got to unroll it. 389 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:37,440 Well, what makes you think you are going to unroll it correctly 390 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:42,320 if you didn't roll it correctly. So I think it's extremely 391 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:47,040 dangerous, extremely risky, especially for major deployments 392 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,760 that are customer facing. It's just and seems like you 393 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,240 know from my experience in in managing web applications like 394 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,480 it's just you don't even have to be at that high of the level of 395 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,720 maturity to be driving automation like you wouldn't, 396 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,120 you know when you roll a jar file to a Java server, right, 397 00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:10,320 you just drop the jar file in and if you have to unroll it, 398 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,920 you take it out and put the other one in or the old one in, 399 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,520 right? You don't, you know, go through 400 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,480 line by line of code and try and figure out the problem or try to 401 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,800 roll things that way. And to me it's kind of like that 402 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,600 that's this alternative way, the manual way, or writing your own. 403 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,520 The problem with that is like usually when you write code, 404 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,920 it's fit for purpose, but your purpose may change over time. 405 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,840 So, you know, you might have a creep away from the standard 406 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,960 baseline and it's not picking up certain configurations that Okta 407 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,640 added and you've been using in your sandbox environment, for 408 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,960 example. So those are some of the risks 409 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:54,160 that really jump out to me. But I also think just for 410 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,240 organizations that aren't already doing kind of a DevOps 411 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,120 approach and a CICD approach, that's the future, right? 412 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,200 And this is just another part of doing that. 413 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:06,360 Yeah, I I. Agree. 414 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:10,720 That's the future. And that's the future by the 415 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,840 way, not just for Okta, but for all of the different IT and 416 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,080 business applications that run your your companies. 417 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,040 And I'll give you an example for something that our customers 418 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,480 typically love is the ability to create a share responsibility 419 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,960 within a team. Because share responsibility is 420 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,360 a concept which is very much known when you develop code, 421 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:34,760 right. You would like the entire team 422 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,520 to be able to collaborate on the same on the stuff that we're 423 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,880 building and the common language that they have for that is code. 424 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,880 So for example one of the things that SALTO enables just by the 425 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,160 fact that we translate everything into a textual 426 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,960 representation into that NaCl file files is that you can 427 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,240 review other team members changes and you can approve them 428 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,880 and you can exact understand exactly what changes Jeff did 429 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,960 two weeks ago and what changes Jim did a week ago and you can 430 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,240 go and in Git we call the blame or praise. 431 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,960 We can either blame or praise Jeff for the changes that that 432 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,680 he did back then and creating that kind of visibility. 433 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,760 It's mind blowing that it's not it's it's nonexistent in those 434 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,160 type of applications. The fact that I can't that you 435 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,920 can't open, typically it's called a pull request, right? 436 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:35,160 A change request to the config and someone else can approve it 437 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:36,480 and only then it can be deployed. 438 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:42,480 Sounds like basic table stakes in critical systems under high 439 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,040 compliance requirements and there's these things do not 440 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,960 exist now. Moreover, as I mentioned, 441 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,320 because your companies are using so many different solutions, it 442 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:58,000 makes no sense to build a different solution for managing 443 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,240 each and every one of those systems. 444 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,200 Typically you would see an IM team, it's managing multiple 445 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,480 different systems, right. It's not, it's not just Octa. 446 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:14,000 In many cases you will also deal with Cell Point or with Entra or 447 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:20,840 with Splunk or with many Jams or with many other relevant systems 448 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,880 or with a or HR system or to push users etcetera. 449 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,520 And having streamlined consistent processes for 450 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,200 understanding that configuration, collaborating on 451 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,680 it, deploying on it is it's not even the future, it's the 452 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:43,440 present and CICD and DevOps in order to enable that, well these 453 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,880 are the principles that enable the software development world 454 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,840 in the last 20 years to support that kind of innovation that 455 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,160 we're seeing in the world today, right. 456 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,920 So these are like battle tested, proven ways of doing things. 457 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:02,120 So I think that we're going to see that every company is going 458 00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:06,120 to start using these IDs when managing their business and IT 459 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,280 applications and that's why Salto is there, right. 460 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,840 So what is it that sets? Salto, apart from others, I 461 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,520 guess, in this space, right? I think one of the things that a 462 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,680 lot of IT people probably suffer from, and myself included, as we 463 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,680 get jaded, right? There's a lot of options out 464 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,880 there, I guess. Tell us why Salto is unique in 465 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,040 this field. Yeah, of course. 466 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:31,480 So the unique part in Salto is that first of all we're we're a 467 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:36,000 platform, meaning that we cater for many different applications. 468 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,760 It's not just Octa, it's not just Salesforce, it's not just 469 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,600 Zendesk, not just JIRA, it's all of them and many others. 470 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,960 We're adding support for a very large number of applications 471 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:55,560 this year and that we put the user experience off the admin in 472 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,600 the center, meaning that in some cases you would find solutions 473 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,440 that are relatively very technical. 474 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,720 They might be a good fit for a developer or for a very 475 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:12,200 sophisticated IT person, but eventually an admin that for 476 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,200 example with Octa lives and breathes. 477 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,440 I am an Octa, not necessarily code. 478 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,960 I think that we're basically the only solution that enables that 479 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,680 both a very admin friendly way of things while not compromising 480 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:31,320 at all all the important traits of source control and automation 481 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,640 and CICD et cetera. We make it accessible to them as 482 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,640 well as cross across many different applications. 483 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,280 We're not aware of anyone else's who's doing it today. 484 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,240 Well, that definitely. Puts the unique into it, don't 485 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,440 also doing it. How about can you share any 486 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,720 customer stories over examples because they think that's 487 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,640 another way that people can kind of start to understand how they 488 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,040 might leverage this and maybe some other ideas that others can 489 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,160 get from this. Any customer use cases or things 490 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,080 and feel free to share names or not, that's fine. 491 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,720 But maybe you can walk us through that. 492 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,280 Yeah, of course. I can share a few a few 493 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,200 different use cases and I I think that I I can share also a 494 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,560 few names. The first one is a very large 495 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:24,320 retailer with 10s of production tenants in the 30s and they used 496 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,240 to manage everything manually with spreadsheets. 497 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,840 So think about it, you have a production tenant, you have your 498 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,080 sandbox or preview that is tied to it in a 1:00 to 1:00. 499 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:41,320 They also had like a gold tenant where the that should have been 500 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,360 the gold standard. Now obviously over time all of 501 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,760 those 60 something different tenants that I just mentioned, 502 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,720 they drifted away, drifted apart. 503 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,080 So the actual relation between the configuration in any of 504 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,160 those environments became almost random. 505 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,560 So for them both rolling changes from that, let's say they would 506 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,600 like to roll a change from that golden image to all different 507 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,840 instances as well as adding a new tenant. 508 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:15,120 It was all huge projects and that's when they started working 509 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,880 with us and they reduced a configuration change that would 510 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,120 typically take them about a week to less than an hour by 511 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,520 automating everything with Salto and creating that kind of 512 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:33,800 visibility. Another interesting that's a a 513 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,560 public at a company, a Udemy I we we can share their name. 514 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:45,560 So Udemy, they strip when they got to us, the CIO, which is 515 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,720 very forward thinking and was thinking about their OPS all the 516 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:54,440 time and he came to us with a problem of how can he eliminate 517 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,440 the silos that he has across his org because Salesforce was being 518 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,560 managed in a certain way and that's what was being managed in 519 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,760 a different way. And then this was being managed 520 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,440 in a different way. And it each one of those suffer 521 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,440 from the same challenges and same problems but found 522 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,520 different solutions or no solutions at all. 523 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,680 So over there it was how can they get to a way that all of 524 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,000 the different business and IT applications are basically being 525 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,840 managed in the same way and that's how they're using US and 526 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,040 they're very happy customer in that sense. 527 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,720 And the large example, which might might sound a little bit 528 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,360 silly, but a European retailer, a very big European retailer. 529 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,640 They made a. Mistake and deleted very large 530 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,000 parts of their production configuration by mistake like 531 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,120 fat finger kind of mistake and it happened once. 532 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,320 Then they realized well they have to take care of proper 533 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,640 processes for managing their configurations both. 534 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,160 So first of all they will develop on a development 535 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,400 instance and development tenant and not directly in production, 536 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,800 so reduce that risk of a fat finger. 537 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,240 But also when things go South. So they could very easily roll 538 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,240 back very selectively those changes. 539 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,320 So that's when they onboarded the salto. 540 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,880 Oddly enough, they made the same mistake again after they 541 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:24,040 onboarded Salto, but then that fall back was immediate and they 542 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,720 undo. Now we need to remember that 543 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:33,720 it's a retailer with north of 100,000 employees, so the 544 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:39,040 implication of a bad change can be huge from a financial 545 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,960 perspective. Think about all of those 546 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,920 salaries that you pay to your employees who cannot log in into 547 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,600 your network or if you're serving customers and this is 548 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,240 somehow customer facing, that's a huge risk and that's a huge 549 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,160 impact. And for them it's it's a no 550 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,680 brainer. I saw three different examples I 551 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,960 think of what customers are using us for. 552 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:05,520 I think those are really. Helpful. 553 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,200 And you know, I'm browsing the website and kind of following 554 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,240 along here as you're kind of explaining this. 555 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,960 But I guess from a use case perspective, I think mostly 556 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,720 we've been talking about configuration backup. 557 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:21,320 Is that the right way to phrase it or is it CICD DevOps is a 558 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,720 little bit of both. Are there other use cases maybe 559 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,920 that we haven't talked about that you guys can help with? 560 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,800 No, so, so. Typically the main use case that 561 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,280 most of our customers come to us is around configuration 562 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,440 management and deployment of changes. 563 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,720 We view backup as like a private case of it, because eventually 564 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,920 when you when you backup, when you restore, you deploy from a 565 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,520 previous version, you can be as selective as you'd like about 566 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,320 it. And because we automatically 567 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,480 fetch the configuration every hour or every day, you get back 568 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,600 up as as part of the solution. Two other interesting use cases. 569 00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,480 One of them is around compliance and showing traceability for 570 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,880 every change that you make. Because when you think about it, 571 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,160 once you move everything to a stream and process which is 572 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,280 backed by git and source control etcetera, you can very easily 573 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,199 now connect those changes to let's say a ticketing ServiceNow 574 00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:19,480 or in Jira and show the approval and show everything that you 575 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,880 need to show to your auditor in case those systems are under 576 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,560 scope. And another one is around 577 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,560 monitoring of configuration changes. 578 00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:32,920 Because there are many companies who came to us tell us, well 579 00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:35,840 these are some very sensitive areas of our configuration. 580 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,639 We need to get alerted whenever anyone changes them. 581 00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:42,679 Think for example about, I know security settings in the 582 00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:45,800 NetSuite, you wouldn't like anyone to play with your 583 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,000 financial systems security settings. 584 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,199 So we can also automatically alert on those these types of 585 00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:54,400 changes. All of these use cases, 586 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,040 eventually they boil down to the fact that we have visibility to 587 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,360 the entire configuration of those systems and we actually 588 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,680 understand that configuration in a way that enables us to 589 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,280 understand what changes over time to deploy changes to 590 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,280 understand dependencies. So what will break if we change 591 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,440 something and to roll back to restore etcetera. 592 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,080 It all boils down to death to the fact that we we can 593 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,240 understand all of that config it seems to. 594 00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:24,960 Me, like salto wouldn't be that hard to start using. 595 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,760 In other words, you should if you're doing manual stair and 596 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:33,400 compare something like that, you should be able to start using 597 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,920 salto and once you build up the confidence level, start using it 598 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,880 right away. Am I missing something obvious? 599 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,240 What does the typical implementation look like? 600 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,400 No, no, you're. Not missing anything Jim, we're 601 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,120 actually, we have a free trial. You can just go to our website 602 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,560 and connect Salto to your systems and start using it. 603 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,680 And we saw cases where during that first month of a free trial 604 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,800 where the prospects already running 10s if not hundreds of 605 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,640 deployments during that month using SALTO. 606 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,560 Obviously if you'd like to go to like automation and CICD 607 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,120 etcetera, then you need to build some of this also in your own 608 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,280 systems, in your own processes. But just to get started, you 609 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,720 just connect it using very standard way to your systems and 610 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,920 you start it's that easy. What about the pricing? 611 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,960 Is expensive. We don't. 612 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,840 Think so. But the way that salt is priced 613 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:34,480 is according to the complexity of your configuration, meaning 614 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,840 that we connect to different systems, for example, to Octa, 615 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,200 to JIRA. And with Octa, we look at the 616 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,400 number of applications, number of groups, number of policies 617 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,000 that we manage and there's a price table accordingly. 618 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,480 And the reason that we do that is because we believe this is 619 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,640 very tightly tied to the value that we provide to our customers 620 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,320 because if that configuration is very complicated, very complex, 621 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,280 you get a lot of value by using salto if it is very simple, less 622 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:03,440 volume. So you said they? 623 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:11,480 Can go to the the salto dot IO slash IDAC and you know, get a 624 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:16,160 copy, play with it. Then if they say OK, there's 625 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,120 something I want, can they figure out their own price or 626 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,200 how do they contact somebody on the on the sales side of Salto 627 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,720 and they contact them back and figure that out, how does that 628 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:29,840 work they? Can do either. 629 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,920 They can either reach out or we will reach out. 630 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,360 In many cases also and because especially with larger companies 631 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,440 might need to walk out some some legal or whatever, we need to 632 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,520 walk out with them. But we also have a self-serve 633 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,880 and you can just wipe your credit card and then go from 634 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,880 there if that's something that you're interested at. 635 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,520 OK, that sounds. Pretty easy. 636 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:58,320 So one question that we want to ask is if you're the customer 637 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:04,200 and you are using salto, how do you measure your success? 638 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,560 Great question. So I think it is very similar to 639 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,520 like Dora metrics, if you're familiar with the way that dev 640 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,000 OPS and metrics typically work. But most of our customers, they 641 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,000 would like to have more deployment to production and the 642 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,600 scope of those deployments should be smaller. 643 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,080 So that's like typically the way that you would like to to 644 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,280 measure it. We also measure the success rate 645 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,600 of those deployments, meaning if they were successful or if you 646 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,440 needed to roll back. So the theory in dev OPS 647 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,800 typically is that you would like to have very rapid deployments, 648 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:43,320 meaning as many deployments as possible per day and to reduce 649 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,200 to with a minimal error rate. So that's typically what our 650 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:52,120 customers would see and we have customers that we're talking 651 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,040 about hundreds of deployments to a single system in a month 652 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,080 because the rate of changes is that high. 653 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,400 And that really that's what enables them to to become agile, 654 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,920 which is that's really what everyone is looking to do, 655 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,680 right, in order for to provide value to the business faster 656 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,040 that eventually all goes to their right. 657 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,880 All of us work in a business when the business to be 658 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,720 successful. For that we need to deliver 659 00:39:13,720 --> 00:39:17,320 value as fast as we can and DevOps and tools like Salto is 660 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:22,040 what enables you us to do that. I have one more question for 661 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,200 you. And I want to know what is next 662 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,680 for Salto. We've talked about Okta a lot. 663 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,840 I'm hoping there are more identity platforms in the near 664 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,080 future, but what's next for Salto? 665 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,880 Yeah. So in Salto we're adding many 666 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:43,280 different applications all of the time and there are a few on 667 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:48,640 the identity domain that we're planning to add later this year, 668 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,960 nothing which is like final in terms of date etcetera. 669 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:59,200 But I think that you might you might see support from Salto for 670 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:04,480 example the Microsoft ecosystem in the Google ecosystem as well 671 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:08,320 as maybe products like sale point etcetera. 672 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:15,480 So because we've seen such an. Overwhelming demand from the 673 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,880 Octa community that we believe that those problems that we're 674 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:25,000 solving are extremely important in the identity ecosystem and 675 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:30,640 that's why we're trying to prioritize identity solutions as 676 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,720 some of the applications that we're adding later this year I 677 00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:35,120 want to make. One statement. 678 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,200 So if there are people who are listening, who are product 679 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:44,240 managers or in an influential role, and they build identity 680 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:49,120 systems, make the APIs available for configuration management, 681 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:50,520 please. Period. 682 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,960 No exclamation. Point I'd like to 2nd that, 683 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,960 yeah, that's well said, Jim. That's what it comes down to. 684 00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:57,640 Right. Yeah. 685 00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:58,440 I I. I. 686 00:40:58,440 --> 00:40:59,440 Agree. I agree. 687 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,920 Those days of closed systems are should be over. 688 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,960 So we were. Talking before we hit record 689 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,960 here and just kind of get into each other a little bit and this 690 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:09,120 has been a fascinating conversation. 691 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,720 So I hope people will go out and visit salto dot IO slash idac 692 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:19,080 but I want to ask a non a non identity question. 693 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,200 Jim, do you have anything else you want to get to before I do 694 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:22,800 that or are you good to go? No. 695 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,000 No, we can't. We can take it out. 696 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,760 This is a fantastic conversation. 697 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:26,920 I really enjoyed it. Thank you. 698 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,840 Yeah. We were talking about basketball 699 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,080 and you mentioned that you like to play and coach and I have a 700 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,120 couple of questions, 'cause I used to play no longer anymore. 701 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:39,400 I'm, I'm old and short and round like a basketball at this point, 702 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,400 but I used to play when I was younger. 703 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,680 So two questions for you. First is a player's question, 704 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,320 What's your go to scoring move, gotta score, games on the line, 705 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,720 how you get in that bucket? So. 706 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,800 As a player, I was playing until the end of high school. 707 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,000 I was always very aggressive and that's also what I typically 708 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,400 teach my kids. So I would grind my way into the 709 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:07,760 basket and like typically power moves because especially at 710 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:14,200 younger ages and if you're also non professional players tend to 711 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:18,240 be a little bit soft. So use your shoulder and you'll 712 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:20,920 get that bucket shoulders and. Butt, right? 713 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,640 Yeah. Jim, what's your go to scoring 714 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,920 move? I don't have one. 715 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:28,680 Don't. I do not. 716 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,600 I don't know. I'm terrible at basketball. 717 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:35,960 I I go up and I do layups and they, well, they used to be 718 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,720 automatic for me. Used to be able to hit 9 out of 719 00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:42,000 10 layups for sure. Now it'd be like if it got one 720 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,040 out of 10, you're too. Small. 721 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,200 You can't. You can't lift the basketball up 722 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,600 correctly. All that weightlifting, maybe? 723 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,720 It's just I think I'm going to be able to jump and get to a 724 00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:55,480 certain height and I can only jump like 6 inches and that's 725 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,360 the problem, OK. I've got some good. 726 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,280 Basketball stories though. All right. 727 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:05,200 I got a good basketball story. So this is my grandfather who is 728 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,880 was shorter than me by an inch. So he is 6/1. 729 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,080 I'm 62. He's 6/1. 730 00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:15,160 He went to South Catholic High School in Philadelphia. 731 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:19,920 It's now called Bishop Newman and he was the center. 732 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,440 Get this 61. So this was you know in like the 733 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:29,280 early 1940s because as a 18 year old, he's over in Germany in 734 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:35,000 1943, so early 40s. And the man was the Center for 735 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:40,040 his high school team at six one. And he is in that high school's 736 00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:44,560 sports Hall of Fame. He was a Letterman in baseball, 737 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,960 basketball and swimming, and he was just a superstar basketball 738 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:50,520 player. I think he was in the All Star 739 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:55,760 team for the city in 1942 or whatever. 740 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:56,640 It's pretty cool. So you. 741 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:57,920 Guys are tall. I'm not. 742 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,680 I'm 5-6 now and you know, when I was younger I was probably a 743 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,400 good solid 5, two or five, three. 744 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,320 But I I I mean, I used to play basketball all day long. 745 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,600 I mean, it was not uncommon for me to be playing games of 21 746 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:15,680 down on the playground or my backyard. 747 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,320 We actually had two hoops on my backyard. 748 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,240 So I was like legit playing all the time. 749 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:23,320 And so my scoring, I had two moves. 750 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,920 I mean, I could drive the lane and do those acrobatic, you 751 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:28,960 know, lay UPS, reverse lay UPS, all that good stuff. 752 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,280 Or the fadeaway jumper, 'cause I grew up in the era of Michael 753 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:38,160 Jordan and you know, we're talking mid 90s, early, early to 754 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,880 mid to late 90s. And that was just the move, 755 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,640 right? Unstoppable, unblockable. 756 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,040 Didn't matter how tall you were. I was shooting over you and that 757 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,440 that was my go to move was the was was really the the the the 758 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,360 fadeaway turn around jumper. That was my jam right there. 759 00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,720 All right. Second question for you and 760 00:44:57,720 --> 00:45:02,200 revolves around coaching. You coach Youths today, what's a 761 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,520 brilliant coaching move that you've made recently, maybe in a 762 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,920 game or a match or tournament or something like that, that you're 763 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,600 like, Oh yeah, that. I'm glad I did that. 764 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,600 Yeah. So and unfair advantage in many 765 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:23,080 cases with young kids is turning on and off full cold press and 766 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:29,240 because kids can get confused when you press them or also when 767 00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:33,360 you don't press them. So in one of the games last 768 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,960 season, we basically turn it on and off all the time because if 769 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,640 you press all the time they get it and then etcetera. 770 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,000 And then the other team got so confused and we just kept on 771 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,080 stealing and lots of easy lay UPS. 772 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:53,920 So that's one thing that works well in young ages and another 773 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:58,480 thing is that we woke up on this a lot in practices we try not to 774 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,760 dribble at all. So just moving the ball all the 775 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,160 time even if it doesn't feel like there is a great purpose 776 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,560 because there there's no shot clock right when with kids. 777 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,480 So the difference because it needs to move all the time then 778 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,960 it creates opportunities. So just teach the kids to move 779 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,000 the ball all the time. So just dribbling, that's what 780 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:21,600 we're walking on. That's a that's a great. 781 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,360 Drill and I totally agree with the full court press because I 782 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,880 gotta tell you, as AI played in I guess would have been middle 783 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,640 school which would have been grades like 6-7, eight I think 784 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,320 if I remember. And full court press is a lot of 785 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,000 fun if you are the one doing the full court press. 786 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,360 It is not fun at that age when you are being full court press 787 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,440 and you're totally right. Like there's confusion and it's, 788 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,120 it seems like such a, you know an easy way to play defense. 789 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:56,120 Here's a brilliant move that my coach, coach Byrd, I think was 790 00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,520 his name. I was probably in fourth or 791 00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:03,040 fifth grade and if you think I'm short now, why was I short then? 792 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:10,360 And we're playing and I won the Mr. Hustle award for our team. 793 00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,960 I just basically was like a gnat on these giants around me and 794 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,720 annoying and you know just in between their legs and just a a 795 00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:21,240 real nuisance. We were not very good, I'll tell 796 00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:24,280 you that right now we sucked. I don't think we won a game all 797 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,120 year. We were playing another team and 798 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,480 they put me in at center. So here I am giving up probably 799 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,920 a an easy 2 feet to the mother Center. 800 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,840 But we were so well trained on the basics and This is why I 801 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,400 mentioned the butt before boxing out, boxing out, boxing out, 802 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,520 boxing out. And so I could do that really 803 00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,560 well. And I kept getting over the back 804 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,400 fouls, called on whoever was whoever is boxing out their 805 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,680 center fouls out, their backup center falls out, power forward 806 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,920 falls out. We end up in the third quarter 807 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,600 they had fouled out so many people that they only had three 808 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,760 players on the court for the last three minutes of the game. 809 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,240 And yes, we still lost. So that's how bad we were. 810 00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:06,440 But I always, I always think back as like and I didn't really 811 00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,560 kind of get at the times too young to kind of figure that 812 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,200 out. But what a brilliant move. 813 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:15,640 Take your shortest person, good fundamentals and just box them 814 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,000 out you you know. Use that button. 815 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,120 I'll use that. Well, there you go, See. 816 00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,000 We're helping each other here. I think that's a good way to 817 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,560 probably end this episode, this conversation. 818 00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,760 I want to thank you again for being part of this and kind of 819 00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:32,160 sharing your wisdom around this, Gil. 820 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,200 We'll have links in our show notes that we can have people go 821 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,040 out and visit and you know, if they've got questions, they can 822 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,400 certainly reach out and connect with you on LinkedIn. 823 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,120 We'll have, you know, your LinkedIn profile as well in our 824 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:48,320 show notes. So visit salto dot IO slash 825 00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:49,600 IDAC. They'll learn more. 826 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,760 Jim and I, we're on the web, idacpodcast.com and you can 827 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,640 always connect with us on Litter on on LinkedIn, if I could talk 828 00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,360 correctly. And with that, we'll go ahead 829 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,240 and leave it for this week. Thank you again, Gil. 830 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,520 Thank you, Jim. And we'll talk with everyone in 831 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:07,040 the next one you've been. Listening to Identity at the 832 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,720 Center. We hope you've enjoyed the show. 833 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:14,080 Make sure to like, rate and review and we'll be back soon. 834 00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:16,520 But in the meantime, hit the website at 835 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:23,640 identity@thecenter.com and find us on Twitter at IDAC Podcast. 836 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:28,200 See you next time on Identity at the Center.