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You're listening to the identity
at the center podcast. 

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This is a show that talks about 
identity and access management 

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and making sure you know who has
access to what let's get 

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started. 
Welcome to the identity of the 

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sender podcast, I'm Jeff and 
that's Jim. 

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Hey Jim hey Jeff, how are you? 
Not so bad yourself? 

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I'm doing good. 
You know. 

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We're going to release this 
podcast, couple days after 

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Thanksgiving the Monday after 
Thanksgiving and I'm just kind 

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of wondering what are you 
thankful for air conditioning 

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and fast internet? 
And here I was thinking you were

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going to say family and friends 
will be crazy man. 

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No, I was going to go with a 
tech answer to So my answer is 

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going to be password. 
Alice but guess what? 

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I spent the entire day doing are
not the entire day but it was a 

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good hour and a half. 
Talking about how we're going to

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do is self-service password, 
resets and password 

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synchronization and what all the
password policies have to be in 

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order for the synchronization 
not to break. 

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And I asked what I started to 
realize was that all those years

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in, I am that kind of made make 
me the dinosaur that I am. 

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Sure come in handy, still. 
Yeah. 

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I mean password. 
Oh this is cool, right? 

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I think it's coming. 
We've been hearing for a while, 

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but guess what? 
There's still people passwords 

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out there so gotta cover them to
and support it so and the only 

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happy path is the part that most
exploits are probably taking 

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advantage of is, you know, I 
forgot my password and kind of 

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going through that or if they've
reuse their password and 

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unfortunately, maybe you're 
getting, you know, a rainbow 

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you're part of a rainbow table 
out there which has pretty much 

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every breach password, no demand
covered. 

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So it's important. 
Oughtn't kind of cover is like 

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okay we know we want to plan and
design for the future but we 

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can't forget the present. 
Yeah. 

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You know, the other thing that I
find that, you know, having you 

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know, the good old gray hair 
experience is that a lot of the 

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basic fundamentals of it and 
your, your software development 

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life cycle, those things come in
handy and they play out in. 

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I am projects over and over 
again and the example I'm going 

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to give Right now is something 
that's come up in one of my 

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projects where the team working 
with the Zach asked for access 

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to the dev environment during 
their or I'm sorry it's the QA 

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environment but they want to 
make changes as they're going 

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through their QA process and 
that's very much you know not 

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how normal software development 
projects go where the testers 

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are changing the system right? 
Because then The developers 

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don't know what was changed and 
they're asked to then solve 

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problems that they're not sure 
how those came to be. 

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So the analogy I was using today
was imagine that you are asked 

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to fix a car, you're working on 
that car and then you step away 

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and then the owner of the car 
comes over and starts working on

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it. 
Then you come back and you think

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it's in a certain place and the 
car should start now and you go 

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to start it. 
Is not working and you go in and

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you discover all these changes 
were made and you have to kind 

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of troubleshoot backwards. 
So I think that's ultimately why

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you prevent that from happening,
right? 

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The developers are responsible 
for creating a working 

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environment and having other 
people work on that environment.

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You know, behind the scenes is 
just not acceptable. 

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So really, that's just basic 
software development. 

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That's not specific to I am but 
you have to be able to bring 

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that at to the table when you're
going into projects because you 

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never know when these kind of 
scenarios might pop up. 

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I think it's basic anything. 
You know you're telling the 

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story and for the this is an 
audio podcast but I was squid 

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and real hard at you like what 
that the brow is furrowed like, 

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this doesn't make any sense. 
I mean this shouldn't be rocket 

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science and it shouldn't be it 
should be common knowledge but 

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common knowledge isn't so 
common. 

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Sometimes you know we did this 
when I was in the help desk is 

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like okay. 
Like a long ticket. 

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A troubleshooting you were you 
you needed to document what you 

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tried. 
So that as you were going along,

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if the ticket need to be 
migrated to another queue or 

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whatever it might be, they knew 
what was already tried and they 

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weren't wasting their time. 
I mean this seems kind of like a

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no duh. 
But no da Jim well. 

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I mean it's one of those things 
you came with hard-earned 

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experience, right? 
Absolute learn it from a book. 

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Absolutely, let's see. 
So what else we got? 

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Got going on before we get to 
our main topic which is identity

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governance. 
I think we're after 

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Thanksgiving, will probably be 
taking a, our normal sort of 

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holiday break here towards the 
end of December. 

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Give my tired weary fingers, and
even worse voice, a break for a 

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couple weeks as we sort of had 
into Christmas. 

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But we've got a few more, a few 
more shows lined up after this 

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one, but people shouldn't be 
surprised. 

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You know, as we normally do 
every storm or between like 

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mid-December to like 
mid-January, take a few weeks 

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break to kind of restore. 
Recharge that's using my spot 

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where I try to get some creative
juices flowing and either come 

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up with a new intro or I think I
think I'm okay with the logo 

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right now. 
Probably you know, keep that for

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a little bit but it's an 
opportunity for us to kind of 

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reinvent and you know keep 
things fresh so keep an eye out 

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for that. 
In case something changes. 

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Yeah, sharpen the saw a little 
bit but yeah I think even 

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Slackers like else deserve a 
couple of weeks off and gives us

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an opportunity to kind of come 
back full steam. 

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I mean, You think about it, this
is going to be episode. 

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What? 
190 up at three and a half 

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years, not even three and a half
years, so we're definitely 

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exceeding the pace of one 
episode per week. 

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Yeah, which is a lot considering
this is not our day job. 

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Exactly. 
All right well, why don't we 

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talk a little bit about identity
governance. 

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Some very happy to have our 
guest on here. 

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His name is Paul Mazzara. 
He's the vice president of 

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strategy with zaevion. 
Welcome to the show Paul. 

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All right. 
Hey, thanks for having me, glad 

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to be here. 
Yeah, thanks so much for joining

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us. 
And, you know, one of the things

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I like to do when we have 
someone out for the first time 

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is kind of find about their 
identity background in their 

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origin story. 
I guess, how did you did you get

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into the I am space? 
Is it something that shows you 

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or did you choose it? 
Yeah, kind of combination. 

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I think, eventually it chose me 
and then I decided to kind of 

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stay with it so to speak. 
Yeah, for me, it started back in

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the right. 
When the kind of internet start 

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taking off, in terms of not just
being a website that had little 

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pretty things to look at or 
read. 

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But so this is around the later 
90s and up to then I'd been a 

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software developer so I actually
started out as they call it. 

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T PF programmers, the Game 
programmer, the tpf is like a 

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airline Airline programming and 
so but I was able to kind of 

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move into like a more windows 
programming and learn Visual 

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Basic and and then I picked up 
TCP IP sockets. 

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And so at that point, there was 
opportunity to, to go with a 

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start on this B2B Extranet that 
Visa was working on. 

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And at that point, they were 
looking at putting it on 

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CompuServe, so that's kind of 
where we're was. 

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Back then. 
And so they said, okay, let's 

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put this thing on the internet 
and see, you know, what? 

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We could do with it, see what 
the, what are member banks, you 

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know, because basically, it was 
a way for member banks can share

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information with visa and kind 
of secure fashion, nothing like 

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top secret or transactions, but 
just information. 

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And so it started out with kind 
of a proprietary kind of a 

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tunnel firewall bit, the client 
had to load on their desktop and

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then to do that secure 
Communications before SLE So 

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then I actually helped Implement
Implement SSL and then a single 

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sign-on. 
So that's kind of how I got into

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the whole I am. 
And then from there, we had kind

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of a custom enrollment 
entitlement system. 

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And so that was a lot of fun, 
right? 

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During the kind of internet boom
in the early 2000s. 

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And then from there, I kind of 
evolved more to like an 

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architecture role. 
Did some work on some Federation

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projects and then eventually 
Went to over to McKesson in the 

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healthcare space. 
That was a lot of fun started. 

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They're very small Beginnings to
and we kind of built out a 

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shared Service as part of the it
group for see I am we built a 

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whole big platform to kind of 
hosts. 

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A lot of different customer and 
you know patient portals and 

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Pharmacy portals and a lot of 
cool stuff using the 

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Technologies you guys are all 
familiar with and then a couple 

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years ago went to Gartner so I 
have opportunity To cover, IGA, 

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Pam and see. 
I am there and talk to a lot of 

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clients by a lot of people that 
you know like people that listen

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to your podcast around what are 
the struggles that people are 

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facing and a lot of the 
struggles and challenges I had 

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as a practitioner very similar 
to what I was hearing out in the

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field. 
So it was kind of really nice to

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get that validation confirmation
out there that not I wasn't the 

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only one that kind of going 
through this, you know, proud of

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these challenges. 
So, so it's been a nice ride and

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now I kind of dove into the, to 
the vendor space now, for about 

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a year and a half. 
I've been it would save you kind

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of, it's part of their strategy 
team self, kind of going full 

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circle. 
So we'll see what's next. 

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But yeah, I don't plan on 
stopping anytime soon. 

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Yeah, so you've been like, 
neck-deep and IGA. 

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Now for a few years, I guess I 
got to ask about the Gartner 

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suck because I'm always curious.
I guess take me through like a 

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typical day of what it's like to
be. 

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You know, an analyst in this 
space where you know like it or 

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not, the Gartner magic quadrant 
is One of the tastemakers that's

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out there. 
I'd love to hear more kind of, 

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you know what's that like? 
Yeah, actually you lot of people

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don't know. 
I was on a team that was like 

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the former Burton group if you 
guys heard of the Burton group 

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Gartner bought the burden group 
and they kind of created a 

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technical, professional part of 
gardener. 

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So I was on the I am team for 
that. 

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That particular group in our 
focus is more around, the The 

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Architects and implementers, and
we did the solution scorecard 

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and of It's met with those. 
I did a bunch of those for IGA 

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and we had another team that did
the magic quadrants and and some

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of those those reports it was 
great. 

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Kind of we work together but we 
didn't really author co-author 

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any, any any research with them?
But yeah, I mean the day in the 

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life I would say it's it's a lot
harder than it kind of looks in 

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the sense of all the different 
things you have to juggle, you 

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know, first of all, prepare for 
conferences. 

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Presentations doing yes, x 
amount of documents that you 

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have. 
You gotta crank out plus 

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co-authoring and then on top of 
that, you're talking to 

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hundreds. 
If not thousands of clients 

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every year that call and ask 
well, okay, you wrote about 

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this. 
So how does that apply to me or,

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you know, what other questions 
do they have about General? 

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IGA Pam. 
See I am then you guys know 

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those three topics there. 
You could spend a whole life 

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just with one of those and so 
for me it was like, okay just 

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Constantly reading up on, you 
know, vendors offerings and 

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solutions, and plus we have to 
be thinking on the Forefront to.

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So it was it was a lot. 
It was definitely a change from 

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being a practitioner to analysts
that I really did enjoy it. 

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I think it's a, it's a really 
good job. 

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I would recommend anybody. 
Who's, you know, who's 

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interested in, kind of take 
making a change to kind of 

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consider that, of course, you 
have to be a good speaker, a 

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00:12:07,300 --> 00:12:11,400
good writer, and, you know, good
technical but, you know, Subject

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matter, expert and believe me, 
there's a lot of talented 

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analysts out there, and it's a 
very sort of competitive. 

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In terms of you have the best 
and the brightest I think, and 

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at Gartner and so, if you think 
you're going to do go in and 

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kind of, wow, everybody, your 
kind of I felt sort of humbled, 

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you know, for I thought well, 
I'm 20 years and I am and here I

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come Waltzing in and tell you 
just you're the Newbie guy, 

225
00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:44,600
okay, we'll see. 
Yeah, so it was very, very 

226
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,400
fulfilling but also very 
challenging. 

227
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,900
I think it's refreshing to hear 
that everyone gets imposter 

228
00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:52,500
syndrome. 
Sometimes kind of walking into 

229
00:12:52,500 --> 00:12:54,500
situations like I think I know 
what I'm talking about and then 

230
00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:56,600
you find out was like, oh man, I
don't know anywhere near as much

231
00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,200
as I thought I did. 
Yeah, I so the solution 

232
00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,100
scorecards in my mind is a lot 
more detail typically than yes. 

233
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,100
The, the magic quadrant. 
I know, at least let's talk 

234
00:13:07,100 --> 00:13:11,100
specifically on the magic 
quadrant itself Gartner. 

235
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,700
Discontinued doing that. 
I think three years ago I think 

236
00:13:13,700 --> 00:13:17,000
2019 was the last one. 
I think the reason that I heard 

237
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,700
was that it was because it was 
so mature that they just wasn't 

238
00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:23,000
really much value and now 
they've I think pivot into like 

239
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,800
a buyer's guide or something 
like that for that you know, I 

240
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,100
guess is that something you 
agree with is the IGA Market 

241
00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:33,300
mature and there really isn't a 
kind of a need to continue that 

242
00:13:33,300 --> 00:13:35,900
research. 
Or is there something else going

243
00:13:35,900 --> 00:13:37,300
on? 
Yeah, you're right. 

244
00:13:37,300 --> 00:13:40,300
I think they kind of pivoted to 
a market guy and I think part of

245
00:13:40,300 --> 00:13:44,200
the issue was It seemed as, 
though, over the last few years 

246
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:48,000
of that report, that there's a 
lot of same players, and not a 

247
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,900
whole lot of interesting 
developments or changes. 

248
00:13:50,900 --> 00:13:54,000
And so, and, you know, because 
of the criteria for the magic 

249
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:59,100
quadrant the, you kind of have 
to have X number of dollars in 

250
00:13:59,100 --> 00:14:02,600
sales, and, you know, there's a 
lot of kind of criteria to even 

251
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,600
to get on there. 
And so, the gardener was 

252
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,700
thinking it again, I wasn't part
of that decision. 

253
00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:10,600
It was the kind of the other 
team, but from my perspective, 

254
00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:13,900
What I saw was that, you know, 
they really wanted to try to 

255
00:14:13,908 --> 00:14:16,600
include other people and, you 
know, include other vendors and 

256
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,800
give a kind of wider array of 
these are the kind of vendors. 

257
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,900
Like in the market guide, 
they'll talk about the IGA 

258
00:14:22,900 --> 00:14:26,300
lights and you know the the 
up-and-comers, the established 

259
00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:29,300
and Bo. 
And so I thought it was good in 

260
00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:32,300
that sense. 
But unfortunately to you know, a

261
00:14:32,308 --> 00:14:35,300
lot of companies rely on that mq
upper right. 

262
00:14:35,300 --> 00:14:37,300
Right. 
So you know most of the time 

263
00:14:37,300 --> 00:14:40,300
there's there they just kind of 
circle that upper right and say 

264
00:14:40,300 --> 00:14:43,000
okay this is my Ben. 
I'm not going to look at 

265
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,100
anything else and so with the 
disappearing is like, people 

266
00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:47,500
were liking it. 
What do we do now? 

267
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,800
You know, so but I think I think
overall it's a good thing 

268
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,100
because I don't recommend just 
circling that upper quadrant. 

269
00:14:54,100 --> 00:14:57,000
I mean, you gotta look at your 
unique use cases, you know, some

270
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,400
of these Niche vendors, you 
know, maybe they're great but 

271
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,200
they only are in Latin America 
or Europe. 

272
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,900
So, but if you're over there, 
hey, that's to me. 

273
00:15:05,900 --> 00:15:08,700
That's almost like an upper 
right center right there. 

274
00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:14,200
So, so I think I think It was a 
good move in that, you know, 

275
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,100
they've kind of broadened, their
research to include more vendors

276
00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:20,700
and then at the same time, as 
you said, we're doing the 

277
00:15:20,708 --> 00:15:23,400
scorecards. 
So the scorecards really giving 

278
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,600
you the meat and potatoes about 
each vendor and comparing them. 

279
00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:30,700
And so that was almost okay well
you got this score cards now. 

280
00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:34,300
So kind of most gave you you 
know a little bit different 

281
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,800
information but I think more 
focused you know. 

282
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,200
So one is a market and the other
was more for the Architect 

283
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,300
implementers to really look at 
the capabilities, you know, in 

284
00:15:45,300 --> 00:15:48,100
great detail because frankly, 
the magic quadrant critical 

285
00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:50,600
capabilities. 
You know, they totally kind of 

286
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,700
broke down the different 
capabilities but they were not 

287
00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:57,200
as deep. 
I mean, the scorecard, we did, 

288
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:02,000
was like, 300 or some criteria 
for each vendor. 

289
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:07,000
So it was pretty massive, and It
was good for me because it 

290
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,100
really got gave me a chance to 
look at all the different 

291
00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:13,500
vendors capabilities and really 
understand where the kind of 

292
00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:16,300
differences were. 
And I bet that's probably been 

293
00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:18,300
helpful now. 
You're with Sapient vice 

294
00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:21,200
president of strategy. 
I guess I have, you know I got 

295
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:22,700
two more questions. 
The first question I'll let you 

296
00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:24,500
answer it is. 
What is the vice president's 

297
00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:25,700
strategy? 
What does that mean? 

298
00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:30,100
Yeah, that's a good question. 
So I think one of the thing 

299
00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:34,400
areas that I'm focusing on is 
kind of trying to look a little 

300
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,200
further out And you know what, 
attracted me to save you. 

301
00:16:37,208 --> 00:16:40,500
It really was the kind of 
innovation culture that they 

302
00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:44,000
have there in the, you know, if 
you just look over time of what 

303
00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:48,100
savings done, we've been pretty 
much on the Forefront of IgA and

304
00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:52,400
now we broke broke into the pan 
magic quadrant as a Visionary. 

305
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,400
So we're kind of looking at that
converged solution which we will

306
00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,900
get into in a bit later. 
But so part of it is just making

307
00:17:00,900 --> 00:17:06,000
sure that we're always looking a
little bit beyond our Releases 

308
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,599
and seeing what are some of the 
big rocks out there that we need

309
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,800
to either avoid or kind of, you 
know, incorporate into our 

310
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,700
overall strategy. 
And so might not be because in 

311
00:17:16,700 --> 00:17:20,500
my title is product and Market 
strategy, so there's the market 

312
00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:25,700
aspect is like so what should we
do from Geo Market standpoint? 

313
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,900
You know, it's SMB or kind of 
big company. 

314
00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:32,900
So I'm starting to look at all 
those and see what we're we're 

315
00:17:32,900 --> 00:17:35,500
does. 
Make sense for Save yet to Enter

316
00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:37,900
into certain markets geographies
Etc. 

317
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:43,800
And you know recently we came 
out with the healthcare identity

318
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,700
Cloud which is basically Our 
Savior and Enterprise identity 

319
00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:50,000
Cloud which name of our product 
and it's basically it's not a 

320
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,000
different offering but it's it's
geared towards the healthcare 

321
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,000
industry that is kind of an 
overlay of configurations best 

322
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,900
practices accelerators. 
Kind of things that help you as 

323
00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:03,400
a healthcare organization to 
kind of get your feet off the 

324
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,600
ground much more quickly. 
And kind of cater to your 

325
00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:10,000
specific needs like you know, 
EHR integration for example. 

326
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,200
So so those are kind of some of 
the things that I'm kind of 

327
00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:16,500
trying to spearhead their grad 
Sabian. 

328
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,600
And I know the solution 
comparison just came out from 

329
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,000
Gartner to about Stevia and you 
guys did pretty well in it. 

330
00:18:21,300 --> 00:18:22,600
I guess. 
I don't want to turn this again 

331
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,200
into a commercial for Sadie n't.
But what were there any kind of 

332
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,300
take aways or findings that kind
of stuck out for you as you're 

333
00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:32,700
kind of looking over what, you 
know, Gartner is telling telling

334
00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:37,200
you about your product. 
Now, Yeah, I think I mean it's 

335
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,200
sales very similar to the 
scorecards that that we just 

336
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,600
there is kind of two criteria 
when it's just the basic, what 

337
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,600
they call that an exact words, 
the core criteria and then the 

338
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,700
competitive. 
So core is basically everything 

339
00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:54,700
that you as a client expect that
you're going to need from an IGA

340
00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:56,200
solution. 
And if it's not, if it's 

341
00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,100
missing, then you really need to
justify why you would actually 

342
00:19:00,100 --> 00:19:01,900
even go forward that kind of 
solution. 

343
00:19:01,900 --> 00:19:05,400
So we did extremely high there 
and the other one was Additive 

344
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,800
which is more differentiators. 
Other use cases that might be a 

345
00:19:09,808 --> 00:19:11,600
little more specialized in 
nature. 

346
00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:17,500
Again we just we were in the 90s
for both of those I think not 

347
00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:19,300
really a whole lot of surprises 
there. 

348
00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:22,700
In terms of it's very consistent
with what the scorecard and it 

349
00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:24,200
came out with a couple years 
ago. 

350
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,500
So I think it's more 
confirmation that you know, that

351
00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:32,600
we're still in a good leadership
position in the space and then 

352
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:37,300
hopefully that with this, you 
know, A lot of more companies 

353
00:19:37,300 --> 00:19:41,600
will recognize say Viet and you 
know, include us in kind of the 

354
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:46,500
as on the short list. 
So that's I think the goal there

355
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:50,400
is to really be able to get on 
those short lists and be able 

356
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:57,300
to, you know, also being kind of
as a solution making it easy as 

357
00:19:57,300 --> 00:20:00,500
you guys know implementing 
Solutions is like IG are very 

358
00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:04,200
difficult. 
So I think that's what we're 

359
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,800
kind of leading the Lee of the 
leading the way there, you know,

360
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,900
on those capabilities. 
But yeah, in terms of particular

361
00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:13,800
things surprises, not a whole 
lot more confirmation. 

362
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:18,800
So Paul you and I caught up the 
other day and I was just one 

363
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,600
part of your background that I 
found so fascinating, which was 

364
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,800
your whole dive into the sea. 
I am space. 

365
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,000
So customer identity. 
Access management. 

366
00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:31,300
When you're at McKesson and you 
made the statement. 

367
00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:34,900
Yeah, we went out and got 
forgerock. 

368
00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:42,200
Around 2011, and I'm thinking, 
okay, I got became aware of 

369
00:20:42,900 --> 00:20:46,800
forgerock. 
Run 2013. 2014 McKesson was kind

370
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,800
of like a, like a Marquise logo 
for them at a time back to. 

371
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,800
Yeah. 
What I realized was that took 

372
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:59,500
guts man to go out there and 
select a vendor, who was pretty 

373
00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:03,000
much knew, right? 
I mean the product was had just 

374
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,600
been spun off, I guess by son. 
Has open source so that took 

375
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:11,500
some guts and but it must have 
been fun to to like take this 

376
00:21:11,500 --> 00:21:15,700
product and like do all the 
things that was envisioned to do

377
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,200
and be the kind of a Trailblazer
in that respect, but I thought 

378
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,500
it was also cool about the 
conversation was like how many 

379
00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:25,800
times you? 
And I must have passed each 

380
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,100
other in the hallway at the Hard
Rock conferences and things like

381
00:21:29,100 --> 00:21:34,400
that and I didn't even know each
other so but hey eventually we 

382
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,100
got to go. 
To know each other and I'm glad 

383
00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:43,400
you're here. 
And I wanted to actually to and 

384
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:44,800
I'll turn this over to you does 
that get? 

385
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,100
But I wanted to pick on 
something that you said to 

386
00:21:48,100 --> 00:21:53,600
Jeffrey is that you're the VP of
product and marketing strategy 

387
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,500
and I think that that is pretty 
cool because one of the big 

388
00:21:57,500 --> 00:22:02,700
trends that I see happening in 
the market is around this 

389
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,600
converged. 
I am Oh, it's taking these these

390
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:11,500
product Towers whether it was, 
you know, I think of and I am 

391
00:22:11,500 --> 00:22:15,500
like the three major Towers 
being access management. 

392
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,500
IGA or identity management, 
whichever you want to call it 

393
00:22:21,700 --> 00:22:27,200
and privileged privileged access
management and I see a shift 

394
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,400
away from kind of best-of-breed 
like this what we do we do it 

395
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:35,800
well and then we partner with 
the partner with best of breed 

396
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,900
in the other areas toward each 
of the vendors trying to build 

397
00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:45,000
capabilities around multiple of 
these you know Towers if you 

398
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,200
will. 
And so I kind of see where say 

399
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:55,500
vehement started out was around 
IGA, but also now kind of like 

400
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:01,100
venturing into the into the Pam 
space, not into the single 

401
00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:04,500
sign-on space. 
So I'm assuming that was an 

402
00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:06,500
intentional part of your 
strategy. 

403
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,400
I guess I'll start there as 
like, is that right? 

404
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,200
Yeah, I think you hit the nail 
on the head there. 

405
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,400
Definitely. 
You know, we've actually started

406
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,600
way back when we're save. 
You kind of did. 

407
00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:23,100
Well, we called our application 
governance, it's are fine. 

408
00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:26,400
Grained entitlements kind of 
management part of the product 

409
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:31,900
which we started out Genesis was
a doing sap more of a Saudi and 

410
00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:35,600
kind of compliance angle and 
then saving it grew more to a 

411
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,100
complete IGA sweet. 
This was in the early days and 

412
00:23:39,100 --> 00:23:41,800
you're right. 
So now we're kind of it's been 

413
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,300
several years as I mentioned 
The, we did debut in the Pam 

414
00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:49,400
magic quadrant as a Visionary. 
So again, I think the, you know,

415
00:23:49,408 --> 00:23:54,800
our Innovation and kind of 
mindset, we thought, and again, 

416
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,900
even myself, when I thought 
about this at Gartner, we did 

417
00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:01,800
some reporting on this. 
I mean, the Pam, and IGA 

418
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,100
traditionally been very 
separate, but it does make a lot

419
00:24:05,100 --> 00:24:09,700
of sense to have those to be 
together in that you most 

420
00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:13,700
definitely want your privileged 
users to have a whole It's 

421
00:24:13,700 --> 00:24:16,400
controls around them. 
In fact, those are probably the 

422
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,500
most important ones that you 
want to make sure you have the 

423
00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:23,600
whole lifecycle management of 
those identities in your IGA 

424
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,400
system. 
So it made a lot of sense from 

425
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,400
those two to be together. 
And then the other thing is, 

426
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,300
yes, we're kind of going to more
of a just-in-time ephemeral type

427
00:24:33,700 --> 00:24:37,400
nature of identities and access 
rights. 

428
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,200
It makes sense that your IG a 
solution and your Pam solution 

429
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,200
are together because they also 
Are both interfacing with those 

430
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,300
endpoint applications. 
And at times, you know, we can 

431
00:24:48,300 --> 00:24:53,200
generate on-the-fly elevate your
privilege and that remove it as 

432
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,000
part of your privileged access. 
But then, if you're 

433
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,500
non-privileged, we still have 
that same connectivity to be 

434
00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:01,700
able to manage those 
entitlements. 

435
00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:04,800
So we could do privilege and 
non-privileged with the same 

436
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,000
kind of connectivity that we 
already have. 

437
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,500
So based on the risk, if we 
might decide to have you 

438
00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:14,500
elevate, your, if you're An 
elevated risk. 

439
00:25:14,500 --> 00:25:20,000
We might decide to direct you to
having session recording and a 

440
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,500
bunch of other controls on top. 
So it's, I think it's going to 

441
00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:24,900
continue to be. 
It's going to evolve into 

442
00:25:24,900 --> 00:25:28,800
something much more Dynamic and 
kind of what we're doing in the 

443
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,700
future. 
What we're starting to look at 

444
00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:37,600
is that whole application access
layer where you know, we can 

445
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:42,500
dynamically You elevate, you and
put those privileged access 

446
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:44,100
controls on the Fly. 
It's not going to be so 

447
00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:46,200
separate, you know. 
Yeah, yeah. 

448
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:52,400
I'm kind of wondering from 
Market philosophy, if you will. 

449
00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:59,200
It's the was if you rewind the 
clock for five years ago at the 

450
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,600
predominant message was around 
better together, right? 

451
00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:09,200
And it seems to me that this 
converge I am approach is he's 

452
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:14,500
probably going to push away from
that model, right? 

453
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:19,000
Because now companies are 
competing on on different 

454
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,900
fronts, right? 
It's going to be hard to to find

455
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:29,800
a Best of breed mix that is the 
perfect set of capabilities to 

456
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:34,300
to fit my need. 
I guess and I don't know which 

457
00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:38,100
one's better from a customer 
standpoint but let me put that 

458
00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:41,000
question to you. 
What is Better for customers. 

459
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,100
Is it? 
You know, for this can converge,

460
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:49,500
I am Trend to continue and to 
deepen, or is it better? 

461
00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:53,000
Or did they have a better before
with the Better Together 

462
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,900
approach? 
Yeah, it's great question. 

463
00:26:56,300 --> 00:26:59,200
Yeah, I think that, you know, 
because you had asked to about, 

464
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,700
you know, will what about access
management and into the mix? 

465
00:27:03,700 --> 00:27:07,700
And I think we've decided that 
we're partnering for that and 

466
00:27:07,700 --> 00:27:10,900
that, you know, a lot of 
organizations, in many cases, 

467
00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:14,900
pick their access management 
solution, as part of, you know, 

468
00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:18,500
could be their collaboration 
Suite or other things. 

469
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,100
And, in many cases, why should 
we kind of try to compete with a

470
00:27:23,108 --> 00:27:25,800
lot of the access management? 
Current Solutions out there and 

471
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,300
they're well established fairly.
I don't know. 

472
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,800
Commoditize has maybe a ton of 
the proper word of course, I 

473
00:27:32,808 --> 00:27:36,100
don't want to put down any 
access management vendors but 

474
00:27:36,100 --> 00:27:38,800
you know they do a great job and
what they do but you know in the

475
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,000
sense you know the single 
sign-on Federation space is 

476
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,900
fairly mature but then it also 
becomes. 

477
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,100
It's almost like a different 
kind of a discipline, IGA and 

478
00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:52,000
Pam are almost a different 
discipline that requires. 

479
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:58,800
I think a real Send how you you 
kind of implement IGA. 

480
00:27:59,100 --> 00:28:02,500
So I think we've had a lot of 
success in that and so I would 

481
00:28:02,500 --> 00:28:06,100
recommend for customers to you 
know definitely if they want to 

482
00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:10,300
try to reduce the number of 
tools that they have in the 

483
00:28:10,300 --> 00:28:13,500
course at the cisos. 
You know I hear that there's 80 

484
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:15,200
plus tools that they have to 
worry about. 

485
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,400
So definitely there's there's 
that push in the probably at the

486
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,600
top level of the organization. 
They're going to want to have 

487
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,900
less tools and maybe one or two.
Throws to choke and you know 

488
00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:29,200
have have overall, you know, 
better. 

489
00:28:30,700 --> 00:28:36,400
You know said spend you know, 
it's reduce spending total cost 

490
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,300
of ownership. 
That's the word I was looking 

491
00:28:38,300 --> 00:28:42,200
for but no. 
Yeah I think that's right. 

492
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,600
I think that's right. 
You know I think what you're 

493
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,700
saying there is that an 
organization or that's a buyer. 

494
00:28:49,100 --> 00:28:50,700
We've got to figure out what we 
need. 

495
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:53,300
Right? 
And yeah, not over by just 

496
00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:56,600
because hey, something Got all 
these bells and whistles, but I 

497
00:28:56,608 --> 00:28:58,700
will say, is an interesting 
time. 

498
00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:04,800
That is converged identity. 
Converged, I am movement is 

499
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,300
taking place because at the same
time, each one of those Towers, 

500
00:29:09,700 --> 00:29:13,400
all three of them are becoming 
much more complex than they've 

501
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,600
ever been. 
I mean, look at access 

502
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,800
management with password List. 
Look at ya, you know, identity 

503
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,900
management with verified 
credential, you know, I Oh and 

504
00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:28,300
identity proofing. 
Look at I think that's the 

505
00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:30,600
biggest one privileged access 
management. 

506
00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:35,200
The space is just humongous when
you think about managing 

507
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,400
privilege in the cloud which 
basically all Cloud 

508
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,900
infrastructure access is 
privileged access. 

509
00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:47,100
So exactly, you know, like as 
much as we might want to go from

510
00:29:47,100 --> 00:29:51,400
80 products to one that might 
not be the right answer, you 

511
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:52,200
know. 
Yeah. 

512
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,900
Having one 30-minute trip. 
We all felt Kind of understand 

513
00:29:55,900 --> 00:29:59,200
what that's all about, but 
that's not necessarily the right

514
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,500
answer, right? 
Yeah. 

515
00:30:00,700 --> 00:30:04,200
And I think for today, if you're
looking at Solutions today, I 

516
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,500
would definitely, you know, 
obviously if you could do a 

517
00:30:08,508 --> 00:30:11,900
converge solution with with as 
many solutions as possible, 

518
00:30:11,900 --> 00:30:16,000
that's obviously great for Matty
Co and cost and support, but I 

519
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,100
would definitely don't 
compromise the functionality 

520
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,100
that you need, you know, for a 
system such as IGA and Pam and 

521
00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:24,900
access management man there. 
Important. 

522
00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:28,500
So they could really make or 
break your security posture. 

523
00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:32,100
So you got, you know, it's not 
like you're you're getting some 

524
00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:34,100
other software that's not 
Mission critical. 

525
00:30:34,100 --> 00:30:38,000
So, I would definitely say you 
don't compromise and your 

526
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,500
requirements. 
And, and frankly up to this 

527
00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:42,900
point, I have not seen. 
You know, those that are offered

528
00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:45,800
kind of a lightweight 
lightweight IGA is part of 

529
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,600
access management or other 
solutions. 

530
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,800
That I haven't seen a lot of 
progress where they really are, 

531
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,000
are providing the depth of The 
functionality that that's a 

532
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,100
Sapient. 
And other IGA companies are 

533
00:30:59,100 --> 00:31:01,600
providing. 
So again, so there is an 

534
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,100
acknowledgement there that is 
hard. 

535
00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:03,700
You know. 
All right. 

536
00:31:03,700 --> 00:31:07,100
Gia is not easy. 
Why I want to get into governs 

537
00:31:07,100 --> 00:31:09,000
Logan. 
I think you hit on something 

538
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,600
that I tend to have a bone to 
pick with vendors and in any 

539
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,300
space is they're selling you way
more than you'll ever actually 

540
00:31:16,300 --> 00:31:18,800
need or use. 
So, I think of smaller IGA 

541
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:23,200
players that are out there like,
I Lantus secure and, you know, 

542
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,300
Etc, that have Very good 
products and they might be good 

543
00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:30,200
enough for the vast majority of 
the use cases, that, that 

544
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,700
organization is trying to solve.
So I find it interesting as we 

545
00:31:33,700 --> 00:31:36,000
kind of had this conversation, 
go along and you know, obviously

546
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,300
got the established dominant 
players, like yourself and say, 

547
00:31:38,300 --> 00:31:43,500
0.0 Mata and kind of others. 
And it's almost like we've gone 

548
00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:46,300
full circle here, where we 
started off with platforms 

549
00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:48,600
about. 
I don't know 20 years ago where 

550
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:54,300
it was like I am CA Oracle 
parapsychology don't even fit 

551
00:31:54,500 --> 00:31:56,000
Events are not flexible enough, 
right? 

552
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,700
And then you have the upstarts, 
these little startups like sale 

553
00:31:58,700 --> 00:32:00,100
Point. 
Nobody knows who the heck, they 

554
00:32:00,100 --> 00:32:01,800
are right. 
They came in and kind of help 

555
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,600
disrupt things. 
And now, it's like we could go. 

556
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,100
We need an IGA tool and now the 
industry is again shifting 

557
00:32:09,100 --> 00:32:11,400
towards. 
Okay, well, we need a, a 

558
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,100
converged tool which in my mind,
I hear that was cool. 

559
00:32:14,100 --> 00:32:15,500
That sounds like a platform to 
me. 

560
00:32:16,300 --> 00:32:18,200
We have a bunch of these texts 
that, you know, things that are 

561
00:32:18,208 --> 00:32:21,700
kind of working together. 
I want to get specifically into 

562
00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:25,000
the governance, I think gay. 
Thank a lot of organizations 

563
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,400
struggle with just basic 
identity. 

564
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,500
Governance, that's where, you 
know, your cells sale point 

565
00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:36,000
omata. 
I Lantus secure ends, IBM one, 

566
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,800
identity. 
I mean, there are dozens of 

567
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,200
products in this space and 
through I guess I'm curious you 

568
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,200
know what from your perspective 
sitting in the shoes that you've

569
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,600
had as both a Gartner analyst 
and now you know on the vendor 

570
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,700
side of things with stadion? 
What is it? 

571
00:32:50,708 --> 00:32:56,200
That makes it so hard for people
to Actually do and do right? 

572
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,600
Yeah, that's a great question. 
And, you know, I was privileged 

573
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,700
to one of my first report was a 
gardener was guidance for 

574
00:33:03,700 --> 00:33:08,100
successful, IGA, implementations
and got chance to talk a lot of 

575
00:33:08,500 --> 00:33:13,400
lot of Gartner clients about 
this document and in, yeah, the 

576
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,400
there's definitely there's so 
many parts to to answer that 

577
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,900
question, but I think it's 
always comes down to, if you 

578
00:33:20,900 --> 00:33:26,000
think about IGA it's almost like
a I think of the The garbage in 

579
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,200
garbage out kind of Paradigm in 
that you know your IGA is as 

580
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,100
good as the data that comes into
it and the and the data that 

581
00:33:34,100 --> 00:33:38,500
comes out and there's so many 
opportunities to make mistakes 

582
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:41,300
that could be resolved in 
hundreds, if not thousands of 

583
00:33:41,308 --> 00:33:44,100
people losing access or getting 
the wrong access and then you 

584
00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:47,300
getting a black eye because of 
its you know, Asia as the I am 

585
00:33:47,300 --> 00:33:49,800
architect. 
And you know I've been there not

586
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,700
at that scale but I've been on 
the side of you. 

587
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,600
Oops. 
You know somehow All those 50 

588
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,300
people got deeper vision, sees, 
and a lot of times, it's okay. 

589
00:33:59,300 --> 00:34:03,300
Well HR you know, kicked 
something off and we did what HR

590
00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:07,100
said, you know? 
So a lot of it is, is 

591
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,300
understanding the data and 
making sure you have good data 

592
00:34:10,300 --> 00:34:13,400
governance from all the way from
your sources of Truth, all the 

593
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,100
way to the applications and 
really from a people process 

594
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:22,100
standpoint, you even before you 
get an IGA solution, I should 

595
00:34:22,100 --> 00:34:25,800
tell clients this that gardener 
You know, document and 

596
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,199
understand all those business 
processes and make sure, you 

597
00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:32,900
know, who's responsible for what
information and who's 

598
00:34:32,900 --> 00:34:35,900
responsible for that business 
process and get them on your 

599
00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:38,199
side. 
Because you're essentially 

600
00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:40,800
automating a lot of that and IGA
tool. 

601
00:34:41,300 --> 00:34:44,800
So I'd say that's one thing. 
The other is your, you always 

602
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,300
want to start with your business
drivers. 

603
00:34:47,300 --> 00:34:49,400
You know, and Garner. 
We had the kind of this 

604
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:55,500
Foursquare chart that said, one 
was risk and Risk and compliance

605
00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:59,000
the other was security, and the 
other one other was operational 

606
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,900
efficiency and not forget the 
other one. 

607
00:35:01,900 --> 00:35:08,000
But anyway, but my point is that
you should always start from 

608
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,500
what are your business drivers? 
What are you trying to achieve? 

609
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:14,400
And what is the top management 
want to see in this solution, 

610
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,500
you know and it could it could 
change over time. 

611
00:35:17,500 --> 00:35:20,100
It could be one of those you 
know one year and then it 

612
00:35:20,100 --> 00:35:23,200
changes to another but if you're
able to start and then Define 

613
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,800
those use cases. 
From the top drivers, all the 

614
00:35:26,808 --> 00:35:30,200
way down that's going to help 
you kind of scope and prioritize

615
00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:33,900
your deployment and that's kind 
of the other part of this answer

616
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:36,800
is that your deployment should 
be very well. 

617
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,500
This is as thinly or kind of 
scoped, you know, very carefully

618
00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:45,800
to, you know, minimize the 
damage that if something goes 

619
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,700
wrong that it's kind of minute 
minimal minimized so to speak. 

620
00:35:49,700 --> 00:35:54,300
So and I look at IGA, it's kind 
of a novice Swiss army knife but

621
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,400
So many little bells and 
whistles that are part of these 

622
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,200
tools. 
That it's easy to, okay, I got 

623
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,700
this new tool and I'm just going
to click the buttons and do a 

624
00:36:04,707 --> 00:36:07,500
bunch of cool stuff, but that's 
really a mistake. 

625
00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:10,500
And there's no manual that's 
going to tell you what to do at,

626
00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:12,100
what time, that's where you guys
come in. 

627
00:36:12,100 --> 00:36:14,800
That's where, you know, 
implementers and people who are 

628
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,800
experienced at deployments come 
in and that's kind of the last 

629
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,400
thing I'll say is bring someone 
in that really knows what 

630
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,100
they're doing. 
They have some Battle Scars. 

631
00:36:24,100 --> 00:36:27,000
They I work in your industry, 
they've deployed the tools that 

632
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,300
you've selected and you know, 
it's all about minimizing the 

633
00:36:31,300 --> 00:36:34,800
risk of going sideways, may you 
bring up a good point there. 

634
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,600
I think there's something that, 
you know, we talked with our 

635
00:36:36,607 --> 00:36:39,600
clients all the time is, you 
know, a lot of times, yes, you 

636
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,900
know, your personal technology 
and kind of, you know what, you 

637
00:36:41,900 --> 00:36:44,400
want to get out of it. 
When your experience, with that 

638
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,800
technology will be greatly 
impacted by whoever's putting it

639
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,400
in place. 
So having people have that 

640
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,900
experience and do have those 
Battle Scars as you mentioned, 

641
00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:52,500
right? 
Yeah. 

642
00:36:52,700 --> 00:36:54,300
You kind of helped me kind of 
keep things. 

643
00:36:54,500 --> 00:36:56,300
On the straight and narrow. 
Keep you honest formica 

644
00:36:56,300 --> 00:36:59,900
capability standpoint. 
I got kind of will side question

645
00:36:59,900 --> 00:37:03,900
here because you know I think 
there is there are still a lot 

646
00:37:03,900 --> 00:37:08,300
of companies that have not taken
the plunge into an IGA platform 

647
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,500
for whatever reason. 
It may be, it could be, you 

648
00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:13,700
know, the company size is really
small and they're getting by 

649
00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:16,200
with just a can full of people 
and it's probably Overkill at 

650
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,000
that point, I still see a lot of
organizations that are quite big

651
00:37:20,100 --> 00:37:22,800
hundreds. 
Thousands of users that are not 

652
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,500
in the IGA space. 
Ali. 

653
00:37:24,500 --> 00:37:27,800
They might have something like 
Microsoft, identity, manager or 

654
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:33,200
some sort of, you know, kind of 
homegrown sort of semi identity 

655
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:35,100
thing. 
Maybe it doesn't do the 

656
00:37:35,100 --> 00:37:37,500
governance and maybe just to 
keep it as tration, right, 

657
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:38,100
right. 
Yes. 

658
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:43,900
What I I'm curious to hear your 
perspective on is when is it the

659
00:37:43,900 --> 00:37:49,100
right time for an organization 
to invest in an IGA platform and

660
00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:53,400
say okay you know ex-service? 
Well I'll just pick on him, you 

661
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,000
know, Microsoft a manager. 
Art as well. 

662
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,800
We get by with it fine. 
But when is the right time to 

663
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,800
say? 
Okay we need to kind of graduate

664
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,700
into modern identity management 
and we think IG is the right 

665
00:38:03,700 --> 00:38:06,200
space to go. 
Yeah. 

666
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:07,800
Yeah, definitely. 
I think yeah there's a couple 

667
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,400
factors there. 
One would be as you said most in

668
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,400
most cases that you'll see the 
tools like ma'am or maybe even 

669
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,000
spreadsheets like people are 
doing access certifications by 

670
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,600
doing you know, CSV extracts and
putting a dumping it all into a 

671
00:38:21,607 --> 00:38:26,300
database and and so there's As a
number of areas, I think where 

672
00:38:26,300 --> 00:38:29,300
companies are just going to 
start to see the feel the pain, 

673
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,600
you know of either they're going
to get an audit finding or God, 

674
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,400
forbids, something happens and 
you know, compromise of some 

675
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,900
kind. 
So, this, hopefully there's not 

676
00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:43,800
that event that that turns 
people to IGA, but I think a lot

677
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:48,600
of it is the pain and definitely
at around 1,000 or so. 

678
00:38:49,300 --> 00:38:51,600
Employees is where I think most 
people. 

679
00:38:51,900 --> 00:38:55,100
Most companies will feel that 
pain because it just Too hard to

680
00:38:55,107 --> 00:38:59,000
manage that manually, and it's 
kind of Jim alluded to the cloud

681
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,600
infrastructure. 
Every user is an entitled, every

682
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,600
users a privileged user. 
And if you look at the cloud and

683
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,100
Timeless themselves, that's kind
of hundreds of thousands of 

684
00:39:09,100 --> 00:39:11,700
entitlements that nobody really 
knows. 

685
00:39:12,100 --> 00:39:15,600
If it's being used out there 
being used or not and they are 

686
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,400
you overprivileged, which the 
answers 99%. 

687
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,000
Yes. 
So there's a lot of reasons why 

688
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,200
it makes sense for kind of 
those. 

689
00:39:24,300 --> 00:39:27,200
And those organizations to start
looking at IGA and the other 

690
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,600
thing is, you know, given now 
that these Solutions are SAS 

691
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,200
delivered called a gardener 
basically, you know, consumable 

692
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,500
in the cloud you don't need to 
stand up servers and 

693
00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:39,000
infrastructure. 
Which you guys know back in the 

694
00:39:39,008 --> 00:39:41,400
day was a pain in the pain in 
the rear. 

695
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,400
And so that with that also 
comes, you know, with these 

696
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,700
smaller organizations. 
They just don't have the staff 

697
00:39:47,700 --> 00:39:52,400
to stand up a, I am solution. 
So now that they have a SAS 

698
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,200
solution, I think there's very 
little Reasons why not to, you 

699
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,500
know, if you are kind of at that
size to where it's just too 

700
00:39:59,500 --> 00:40:04,900
painful to manage manually, you 
know, and or regulations, I 

701
00:40:04,900 --> 00:40:09,500
heard a stat, the couple weeks 
ago about the Privacy, there's 

702
00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:13,800
like 75% of the world now has 
some sort of privacy regulations

703
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,600
and I know that's kind of more 
on the consumer side of things, 

704
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,800
but it's not going to go away 
anytime soon. 

705
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,500
There's there's going to be more
regulations and, and there's 

706
00:40:23,500 --> 00:40:27,800
going to be Riley. 
Some new cyber security laws and

707
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,300
Reporting and responsibilities 
of reporting things so I think 

708
00:40:32,300 --> 00:40:33,700
it's just going to get even 
more. 

709
00:40:34,300 --> 00:40:39,200
So imperative for every company 
to be you know, cyber have a 

710
00:40:39,207 --> 00:40:42,400
good cyber hygiene. 
The IGA is definitely one of the

711
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,100
tools that'll help you in that 
journey. 

712
00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:48,400
I think that was a great answer 
is like as you're going I was 

713
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,300
like up, but did you think of 
it? 

714
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,100
Now we just answer that but the 
way I was going to put it was 

715
00:40:55,100 --> 00:40:57,500
When did you IGA before? 
It's too late. 

716
00:40:57,500 --> 00:41:01,300
So that was the, that major 
event item that you brought up, 

717
00:41:01,300 --> 00:41:05,800
or, I mean, before you hit some 
kind of rapid growth. 

718
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,200
I move we worked with the 
company, Jeff. 

719
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:13,200
And I, that quickly became 
10,000 employees and did not 

720
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,900
have an IGA system in place 
that's Way Beyond, you know, too

721
00:41:17,900 --> 00:41:21,500
late. 
And I'll say one quick thing on 

722
00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:27,000
that, sorry to interrupt, but Ma
Days and companies that do merge

723
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:32,700
or divest without IGA solution. 
It's like a very difficult 

724
00:41:32,700 --> 00:41:35,800
because you don't know what user
has access to what, you know, 

725
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,400
like you guys say you're 
beginning your podcast, it's all

726
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,800
about who has access to what you
and I that's what I GA gives you

727
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:48,300
that answer and for those kind 
of m&a, situations, or you just 

728
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,300
there's no way that you can 
figure that out easily when 

729
00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:56,300
you're doing those sorts of mas.
And And maybe even Partnerships,

730
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,800
you know, more and more, 
especially smaller companies are

731
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,300
partnering with other companies.
So there's a lot of B2B 

732
00:42:01,500 --> 00:42:04,400
relationships sticks. 
Here's what happens. 

733
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,000
Here's what happened. 
So we got this phrase in in our 

734
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:13,300
industry of jml Joyner, move 
earlier, I always love to fall 

735
00:42:13,300 --> 00:42:17,800
back on ads, remove changes but 
it's the same thing, right? 

736
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:23,400
You have to be able to provision
access when people join remove 

737
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,300
access when they leave the 
company and you need to change 

738
00:42:27,300 --> 00:42:29,100
our success when they move 
around. 

739
00:42:29,100 --> 00:42:32,600
So as you grow, if you don't 
have automation, the first thing

740
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,600
to die of is that we deal with 
changes. 

741
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,700
The second thing to die off is 
that we remove people when they 

742
00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:41,200
don't meet access anymore. 
When they've left the 

743
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,600
organization, we're always going
to give people access because 

744
00:42:44,900 --> 00:42:46,400
this creaky wheel gets the 
grease. 

745
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,100
If somebody doesn't have the 
access, they're going to squeak.

746
00:42:49,100 --> 00:42:53,200
So as you grow, well beyond 
that, that ability to manage it 

747
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:57,600
manually is Those processes fall
off and you just do the minimum 

748
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,300
to get by. 
You become very insecure. 

749
00:43:00,500 --> 00:43:03,600
So that was my answer. 
I'm gonna say before it's too 

750
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:08,600
late but not until you have the 
time to devote to doing it, 

751
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,500
right? 
Because if you start a project 

752
00:43:11,500 --> 00:43:14,200
and your smes don't have the 
bandwidth to support the 

753
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,900
project, you wind up spending a 
bunch of money for people to 

754
00:43:19,100 --> 00:43:22,500
follow up with people to try and
get things to work when they've 

755
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:25,300
got other priorities. 
And so I see see this in my 

756
00:43:25,300 --> 00:43:28,600
project sometimes where it's 
like, hey we've got the budget 

757
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:34,100
for implementing an IGA right 
now, but our HR team can't 

758
00:43:34,100 --> 00:43:37,500
really support it and are as 
your team, can't really support 

759
00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:39,800
it and our ticketing management 
team. 

760
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,600
Can't really support it. 
So, use the IEM and this is on 

761
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,200
the integrator size like you 
just sit there and you bug 

762
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,700
people and you send reminder 
emails and you join calls and 

763
00:43:49,700 --> 00:43:53,400
nobody joins on the other side. 
So if your, when you go into a 

764
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,500
project to implement, IGA just 
make sure you remember it's 

765
00:43:57,500 --> 00:44:00,300
Middle where it doesn't do stuff
by itself. 

766
00:44:00,300 --> 00:44:05,600
It requires integration to all 
these other systems and if the 

767
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:10,000
teams on the other end on time 
to support it is going to cost a

768
00:44:10,008 --> 00:44:15,200
lot more it's going to go a lot 
slower degree and if you made a 

769
00:44:15,207 --> 00:44:18,100
good point around, that's 
another kind of tentative 

770
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,100
successful implementation, is 
it? 

771
00:44:20,300 --> 00:44:21,700
Yeah. 
If you're able to start like a 

772
00:44:21,700 --> 00:44:25,500
year ahead of even choosing a 
vendor, And you just start 

773
00:44:25,500 --> 00:44:28,800
socializing it and you start 
getting the HRS and all the 

774
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,900
right teams kind of onboard and 
then they can kind of standing. 

775
00:44:32,900 --> 00:44:34,400
Yeah. 
And then they Coulda say, okay, 

776
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,900
I'm going to kind of carve out a
few hours or something. 

777
00:44:38,100 --> 00:44:40,900
Make sure that my Engineers have
availability for you. 

778
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,900
You know, next quarter, you 
know, the worst thing is to kind

779
00:44:43,900 --> 00:44:46,100
of come up last minute and say 
you know, I'm implementing the 

780
00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:47,900
system this weekend, can you 
support me? 

781
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,700
You know, that's the way to make
enemies very quick make enemies 

782
00:44:51,700 --> 00:44:54,700
like to not succeed. 
Exactly one. 

783
00:44:54,900 --> 00:44:56,800
Stereo that I wanted to touch 
on. 

784
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,700
Ignore, you know, going along 
those converged identity and you

785
00:45:00,700 --> 00:45:05,700
guys really take it at least a 
secondary focus on privileged 

786
00:45:05,700 --> 00:45:08,400
access management. 
However, you want to find that 

787
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:13,600
I'm not trying to put words in 
your mouth, but in terms of this

788
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:17,900
privileged access management and
the cloud specifically was 

789
00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:21,100
really it's so here's my 
perspective is that the IM 

790
00:45:21,100 --> 00:45:25,800
practitioners are inheriting a 
cloud, Environment at some 

791
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:30,000
point. 
So typically what I see is that 

792
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,700
some development team, had a 
project to launch some 

793
00:45:34,700 --> 00:45:40,000
applications in. 
They get an AWS account and 

794
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,000
start doing it more in a modern 
way where they're doing 

795
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,400
containerization. 
They're doing devops. 

796
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,800
And then the it the the I am 
will call it. 

797
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,700
The I am team comes along and 
it's like we've got a secure. 

798
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,100
This. 
You got to take all the controls

799
00:45:57,100 --> 00:46:00,100
that we have in our on-prem 
environment. 

800
00:46:00,100 --> 00:46:02,600
We need to apply those in the 
cloud. 

801
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,400
But they're behind there behind 
the curve, right? 

802
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:07,900
All this stuff is already been 
built. 

803
00:46:07,900 --> 00:46:12,200
So my question is, where do you 
think they should start? 

804
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,600
So should they start by doing, 
you know, taking their existing,

805
00:46:17,100 --> 00:46:21,500
I am tools and you know, trying 
to see how far they can get in 

806
00:46:21,500 --> 00:46:26,000
the cloud with those. 
Is it that they should, you 

807
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,300
know, really just I don't know. 
Let me know that question. 

808
00:46:29,300 --> 00:46:33,300
You, where do you think the 
practitioner should start? 

809
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:34,700
Art. 
Yeah. 

810
00:46:34,700 --> 00:46:38,700
And and I think that's really 
why some of these Solutions. 

811
00:46:38,700 --> 00:46:42,000
You know, I wrote a paper on on 
this before they actually called

812
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,100
it. 
See I am or Kim but there's 

813
00:46:45,100 --> 00:46:50,100
emergence of these these vendors
that address that specific use 

814
00:46:50,100 --> 00:46:51,700
case around the cloud 
entitlements. 

815
00:46:51,700 --> 00:46:54,600
And I think that's somewhat came
up. 

816
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,600
From fact, I think I don't know 
the status like, 80 years 90 

817
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,400
percent of organizations are 
multi-cloud and so yeah you 

818
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,300
might have a strategy Around 
your AWS or Azure kind of access

819
00:47:06,300 --> 00:47:09,300
management. 
But once your multi-cloud, how 

820
00:47:09,300 --> 00:47:11,500
is it that you're going to kind 
of make sense of all of those 

821
00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:15,700
entitlements and kind of from 
that again, from that place to 

822
00:47:15,700 --> 00:47:18,200
answer who has access to, what 
were they doing with it. 

823
00:47:18,500 --> 00:47:24,300
So, in some cases, if you have, 
I mean, right now, I believe 

824
00:47:24,700 --> 00:47:28,400
will at least save you and we 
had we've already had some sort 

825
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,900
of this built into our product 
around the cloud entitlements. 

826
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,600
And but other salute, other 
vendors have kind of done some 

827
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,700
Acquisitions, you know, like 
Microsoft acquired Cloud Knox. 

828
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,300
So that's part of their 
permissions management and so, I

829
00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:47,700
think there's some kind of 
movement going on in the market.

830
00:47:47,700 --> 00:47:50,800
I would participate there be 
similar things going on there. 

831
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,700
Sale Point acquired, something, 
cyborg built built their own 

832
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,300
kind of Kim capability. 
So it's definitely an area that 

833
00:47:58,300 --> 00:48:00,800
has arisen. 
So if you have a product 

834
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,700
already, obviously, you may 
already have some Those 

835
00:48:03,700 --> 00:48:09,800
capabilities built-in and 
therefore like us again we have 

836
00:48:10,100 --> 00:48:13,500
we have that capability to. 
So I would recommend that if you

837
00:48:13,500 --> 00:48:17,200
don't and you already have 
Solutions built in and you're 

838
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,000
looking for a kind of 
specialized Solutions, make sure

839
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,300
that they have supported 
Integrations with a lot of the 

840
00:48:24,300 --> 00:48:26,800
different, you know, the 
vendors. 

841
00:48:27,500 --> 00:48:30,500
So the answer, you're more or 
less going with is is the key, 

842
00:48:30,500 --> 00:48:32,500
man. 
Sir, and I was interesting 

843
00:48:32,500 --> 00:48:36,200
because those kind of Thinking 
that you're going to go with 

844
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:41,100
more of the, the governance IGA 
answer, which is like, hey, make

845
00:48:41,100 --> 00:48:45,500
sure that in your IGA system, 
you kind of know who has access 

846
00:48:45,500 --> 00:48:50,600
to what, which may be that. 
I kind of feel like Keem bolts 

847
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:52,100
onto that. 
It exactly. 

848
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:53,900
I mean, that was always my 
opinion. 

849
00:48:53,900 --> 00:48:56,900
When we kind of came up with the
acronym its Cloud 

850
00:48:56,900 --> 00:48:59,400
infrastructure, entitlement 
management it to me. 

851
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:04,700
That's IGA, but the Market 
vendors, Is kind of taken a 

852
00:49:04,707 --> 00:49:06,800
different kind of approach. 
You know. 

853
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:11,000
Pam vendors are jumping on the 
him bandwagon so I guess from a 

854
00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:14,900
vendor perspective may not 
always be inherent in the Kim. 

855
00:49:14,900 --> 00:49:19,300
Still in a IG, a solution ours 
is so I always thought that 

856
00:49:19,300 --> 00:49:22,200
that's your right there. 
Kind of they should be very 

857
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,100
tightly integrated or within the
same solution that would be my 

858
00:49:25,500 --> 00:49:29,600
my recommendation for sure. 
So I have three questions for 

859
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:34,900
you is it Linux or line x 2? 
Tomato or tomato. 

860
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:36,700
Kim. 
Or key more? 

861
00:49:36,700 --> 00:49:39,600
Just answer that third one. 
Yeah, it's definitely Kim. 

862
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:41,700
Yeah. 
So we came up with instead of 

863
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:47,600
see I am which sounds a lot like
see I am so we said okay also I 

864
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:51,000
think there was another way 
we're looking at a cloud access 

865
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,600
management cam or something. 
We should know that's the not 

866
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,000
going to work, soak it. 
So we thought Kim was kind of a 

867
00:49:56,008 --> 00:50:00,900
cute way of, you know, calling 
see IEM without trying to 

868
00:50:00,900 --> 00:50:03,300
confuse it. 
You put a name on a very complex

869
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:04,900
Problem. 
Yeah, exactly. 

870
00:50:05,100 --> 00:50:07,700
Exactly. 
I know we're running out of time

871
00:50:07,700 --> 00:50:08,900
here. 
So I want to make sure that we 

872
00:50:08,900 --> 00:50:10,800
are. 
We have enough time to talk 

873
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,600
about another passion of yours 
which is classic cars. 

874
00:50:15,100 --> 00:50:17,300
So we kind of end on a lighter 
note around here, that's going 

875
00:50:17,300 --> 00:50:19,600
to bring things up from the very
heavy identity governance 

876
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,500
talked. 
We just had I guess here's my 

877
00:50:22,500 --> 00:50:25,000
first question for you. 
I guess how do you define a 

878
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,900
classic car and then the second 
part of that is, what is your 

879
00:50:28,900 --> 00:50:31,000
ultimate classic car? 
Yeah. 

880
00:50:31,900 --> 00:50:33,200
Yeah we'll definitely a classic 
car. 

881
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,100
I kind of am from a career 
standpoint, would be something 

882
00:50:36,100 --> 00:50:42,100
that's kind of, at least is 
older than like a 70. 

883
00:50:42,900 --> 00:50:45,700
Don't know as funny because I'm 
in a car club and we just 

884
00:50:45,700 --> 00:50:52,400
updated our inclusion criteria. 
This from like a 72 and older to

885
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,200
like 79. 
So, I think somewhere in the 70s

886
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,100
that a, You could argue, I'm 
sure there's people that want to

887
00:50:58,100 --> 00:51:00,100
make it, you know, if some 80s 
cars. 

888
00:51:00,100 --> 00:51:03,300
But frankly, I think the 80s is 
really where things. 

889
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:07,600
Going downhill with the terms of
cars and performance, but really

890
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:11,300
those classic cars youth least 
the way I look at it is, you 

891
00:51:11,300 --> 00:51:16,100
know, they have super big 
engines that don't get good gas 

892
00:51:16,100 --> 00:51:17,900
mileage. 
Unfortunately, for those of you 

893
00:51:17,900 --> 00:51:20,100
out there, don't mean to offend 
anyone. 

894
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:25,400
But it's so it's basically and 
then they're, they're like weigh

895
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,900
a ton that you look at them 
demand, they're just huge. 

896
00:51:29,100 --> 00:51:32,700
You know, cars and they have 
really good looking Interiors. 

897
00:51:32,700 --> 00:51:35,200
A lot of them. 
Um, maybe even more modeled 

898
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,000
after airplanes and stuff, the 
airplane interiors and things. 

899
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:42,200
So there's a lot of kind of 
different approaches to classic 

900
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,800
cars, but I would say, 
definitely something in the 70s 

901
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,900
or earlier goes back all the way
to the 30s. 

902
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:54,300
And something that could 
possibly be really fast and loud

903
00:51:54,700 --> 00:51:58,100
and a lot of different colors 
to, you know, two-tone 

904
00:51:58,100 --> 00:52:00,600
interiors, and those kind of 
things. 

905
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:04,300
So my favorite of course, is I'm
going to say The class car that 

906
00:52:04,300 --> 00:52:10,700
I have is a 1964 Buick Riviera. 
And so the Riviera that's first 

907
00:52:10,700 --> 00:52:14,100
year they came out with 63, I 
got a 64, they call those. 

908
00:52:14,100 --> 00:52:17,300
The first Generations, they had 
a number of generations where 

909
00:52:17,300 --> 00:52:19,900
they kind of changed the body 
style but that's my favorite 

910
00:52:20,300 --> 00:52:23,900
from 63 to 65. 
The body style is I think the 

911
00:52:23,900 --> 00:52:27,000
coolest so you guys you know can
can check those out on the 

912
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:31,700
internet but very different from
the other 60s cars at the time. 

913
00:52:31,700 --> 00:52:34,900
If you look at like the Impalas 
Or the the Thunderbird was kind 

914
00:52:34,900 --> 00:52:37,300
of the first. 
The Ford Thunderbird was kind of

915
00:52:37,308 --> 00:52:42,200
the first what they call a 
personal luxury vehicle and that

916
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:43,900
was kind of what Ford was 
wanting to do. 

917
00:52:44,300 --> 00:52:47,200
So you know I'm sleepy awaken 
others came out with their 

918
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:50,000
version. 
So definitely the Buick Riviera 

919
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:55,000
is my favorite So far, if I get 
another one, I'll let you know 

920
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,500
as I might change my mind. 
Jim. 

921
00:52:58,500 --> 00:53:00,000
How about yourself? 
What do you got for a classic 

922
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:04,100
car. 
So if I had to pick one, it 

923
00:53:04,100 --> 00:53:10,300
would be the 57 Corvette. 
It's kind of a roadster. 

924
00:53:10,700 --> 00:53:15,000
I mean those cars are just like 
they just scream luxury and 

925
00:53:15,300 --> 00:53:19,200
performance but not luxury. 
They scream performance from 

926
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:23,700
that era and they're just You 
can't help but turn your head 

927
00:53:23,700 --> 00:53:27,600
when one goes by. 
So but the thing is I'm not that

928
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:31,000
handy so I'd have to buy one to 
somebody else restored. 

929
00:53:31,100 --> 00:53:34,500
I don't have to have a mechanic.
Who would come in, do repairs on

930
00:53:34,500 --> 00:53:36,500
it. 
So it would be a lot more 

931
00:53:36,500 --> 00:53:40,600
expensive than, than just, you 
know, getting one and restoring 

932
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:42,400
it myself. 
That's not going to happen. 

933
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,300
Couple you Jeff. 
Well I'm not much of a car guy 

934
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,300
and we were kind of joking about
this before we hit record is 

935
00:53:49,300 --> 00:53:51,600
like you know mine is going to 
be, you know, we're probably 

936
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,900
like oh it's you know the first 
Tesla Roadster some like that 

937
00:53:54,900 --> 00:53:59,600
because I have a big family like
you know, if I could have my fun

938
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,300
answer will be the door and from
Back to the Future, I'm going to

939
00:54:02,308 --> 00:54:05,300
call that classic only because 
it's from my past, my youth. 

940
00:54:06,100 --> 00:54:07,600
I've always been a fan of the 
Lamborghini. 

941
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,700
Diablo, I just love the way it 
looks. 

942
00:54:10,700 --> 00:54:12,800
I'm more of like a Supercar kind
of classic. 

943
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,000
You know, I think that, I think 
that the whole point of that 

944
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,300
vehicle was that it had to be as
fast as possible. 

945
00:54:19,500 --> 00:54:21,300
I think I like had to wake be, 
at least. 

946
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,800
I'm not sure what the mph were, 
but I had to be a be able to go 

947
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:28,500
at least 315 km/h, which is 
crazy. 

948
00:54:28,500 --> 00:54:32,000
Fast is fast. 
Yeah, so I was, that would 

949
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:33,600
probably be like my classic 
card. 

950
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:35,900
I don't think that was goes back
to the 70s. 

951
00:54:35,900 --> 00:54:39,500
I can't be part of Paul's Club, 
but it's like any other. 

952
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,400
It's like any other industry, 
where you a classic, write all 

953
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,200
the music that I used to listen 
in high school? 

954
00:54:43,500 --> 00:54:46,400
Is now on classic, you know, 
radio stations. 

955
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,600
So at some point you know, 
you'll hear Nirvana on the 

956
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:51,900
oldies station and you're going 
to realize what the hell 

957
00:54:51,900 --> 00:54:54,700
happened to my life souls and 
take? 

958
00:54:54,700 --> 00:54:57,000
It was just yesterday. 
So whenever a Lamborghini 

959
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,200
Diablo, we, my will be my 
answer. 

960
00:55:01,100 --> 00:55:04,200
Well, I like the Countach man. 
That was like the 80s. 

961
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:08,800
Yeah, like the Miami Vice kind 
of Swing the door swing and all 

962
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:12,300
the Lamborghinis are sweet. 
All right, we've had a lot of 

963
00:55:12,300 --> 00:55:14,300
good conversation today. 
Say, you know, Paul, I know we 

964
00:55:14,300 --> 00:55:16,600
want a little bit longer than we
probably anticipated, but really

965
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,300
appreciate you kind of helping 
be part of this conversation, 

966
00:55:19,300 --> 00:55:21,300
kind of share your expertise and
viewpoints. 

967
00:55:22,500 --> 00:55:23,700
We're going to go ahead and 
leave it. 

968
00:55:23,700 --> 00:55:26,800
I think for this week, we know 
now with our classic car 

969
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,700
selections, are we know a lot 
more about the IGA space and 

970
00:55:29,700 --> 00:55:32,200
some of the things that people 
should be considering when it 

971
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,900
comes to deployments and 
selecting products and so forth.

972
00:55:35,900 --> 00:55:38,400
We also got some scoop on some 
Gartner stuff which is pretty 

973
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,500
cool and kind of pulling back 
the curtain a little bit. 

974
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,100
So, thank you for that and also 
in our show notes, I'll have a 

975
00:55:43,100 --> 00:55:45,800
link To Paul, hopefully he's 
okay with me asking him for the 

976
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,500
first time on air since he's 
okay with connecting with people

977
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:49,900
on LinkedIn. 
So I won't do that. 

978
00:55:50,300 --> 00:55:53,100
Also have a link to Sabian and 
their website and kind of find 

979
00:55:53,100 --> 00:55:56,800
out more about what CBN sup to 
from an identity perspective in 

980
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,200
our show notes as well as links 
for Jim. 

981
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,500
And I if people want to connect 
their and we're also have to 

982
00:56:01,500 --> 00:56:04,600
continue the conversation. 
So you can also find us on the 

983
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,100
web. 
We're at identity at the 

984
00:56:06,107 --> 00:56:10,100
center.com. 
We're on Twitter at idac podcast

985
00:56:10,500 --> 00:56:12,300
and with that. 
Thanks everyone for listening 

986
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:14,300
and we'll talk with everyone. 
One in the next one. 

987
00:56:17,700 --> 00:56:20,600
Thanks for listening to the 
identity at the center podcast. 

988
00:56:20,700 --> 00:56:23,000
If you like what you heard, 
don't forget to subscribe and 

989
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,800
visit us on the web and identity
at the center.com.