You're listening to the identity of the sender podcast.
This is the show that talks about identity and access
management and making sure you know who has access to what
let's get started. Welcome to the identity of the
center podcast I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
Hey Jim hey Jeff, how are you? Oh not so bad yourself.
I'm doing great man and today was a really fun day.
Got to participate in a Carolina identity Roundtable webinar.
I guess is what you would call it joined by you joined by
Ashley ruse. Let's go and browse their route
that's going. And this whole party should have
just give me the names. Yeah.
Ashley Beth and prints. It was a great conversation
that's for sure. Thanks to Tom Lennon for
inviting us. Not only to the CO2, the to the
webinar itself. But to the group, I'm a recent
Carolina transplant. So I kind of went with my feet
that one pretty easily. Yeah.
It was a really good
conversation about our back, the gift that keeps on giving.
I mean you know we've been dealing with our back since our
first days in identity access management.
In its here this year, it'll be here next year, which goes with
our theme of what's hot at the end of the year.
You know what, what happened in the past year, what's happening?
In the coming year are back. We'll be there.
Yeah, that's for sure. I was kind of surprised actually
how far along each of them were with their Journeys, and their
organizations. And I haven't, I haven't
listened to the replay yet, so my hope is that I'll be able to
turn it into an episode. In the future that will play.
Maybe in January. This is most likely our last
episode for the year. We usually take a few weeks off
here between Christmas New Year's and sort of getting
started in the New Year getting feet settled.
So we're going to talk about I guess, kind of identity and
retrospective you know, things that happened through the year
2022, What's it gonna be remembered for maybe some
predictions for next year? But yeah, I'm looking forward
to. I got it was, it was a fun
conversation. I had a great time with it.
Kind of emceed it. Had a panel discussion and had
some good interaction with the audience and, you know,
questions and stuff like that. So it was fun.
I had a good time. You've gotten really good at
that man. I think it's all your podcasting
time. Yeah.
Put a I can't do anything about the voice but at least I was
prepared. So I guess that's the probably
the most important thing. So what else we have going on in
awe? There's a couple things that
have been working on with identify verse.
They're looking, you know, stole I think the call for speakers is
still open and that's definitely about you and I are going to try
and hit next year. Still open.
We'll put the link to the, put the link to the call, two
speakers in the show notes. Obviously, it's one of the
biggest identity conferences of the Year gardeners.
Usually, the other biggest Conference of the year.
And I think that people need to be aware that that conference is
taking place in March this year. A different location near Dallas
Texas. Yeah so Usually Gartner is like
the first week of December, a kind of right after
Thanksgiving. I'm not sure yet.
If it's smart to pull it Forward, I think it is because
there's probably more budget still available at that time
versus towards the end of the year.
When people like, okay, what can I spend my money on?
Oh, there's a conference, like, that's how we can use it, which
is also has benefits. Because, hey, there's money left
over. What are gonna spend it on?
Let's go send people to a conference.
So I would be interesting. Yeah.
How that, how that works out, but it's definitely be aware
Gartner is much earlier this year.
It is in March. I mean the date changes big but
I think location changes even bigger.
It's been in Las Vegas for as long as I could remember.
Announcing being doused Sexes. I'll enjoy that.
I mean I was kind of getting sick of Vegas.
My last visit. Nothing against Vegas are people
from Vegas but you know you only stay there so long on this trip
before you had too much. I like Vegas.
So we'll see grape Grapevine Texas.
Here we come for Gardner, you and I are planning on being
there. So, so we got that going on.
We're going to, I should say. Also while we have our break
going on, we're working on some pretty big stuff.
So hopefully people will stick around with us and come back
when we're back in January. When, hopefully we'll have some,
some big announcements that will be able to make for next year,
as well, State of the Union. When it comes to the podcast, we
had another great year. I could, we can say that.
As we ended 2022, we have doubled our listeners again.
Both zero is still zero but we actually have listeners around
the world. Thousands of folks tuned in,
which is absolutely nuts. This is the, you know, the third
year that we've been doing is podcast and every year we've
been doubling and it is purely through Word of Mouth.
We have you know, no budget other than whatever Jim and I
decide to put into it and we don't do any advertising, so
it's purely word of mouth and people sharing it.
I saw a stat the other day that we are in the top 10 of the most
shared podcasts in the world for all.
Cast, which is absolutely nuts. And we put out something like
two thousand, six hundred minutes of content in 2022
alone. So if you think about like how
much we've put out there, like where it's the stat was like
we're in the top 3% of all content produced from a podcast
perspective. Yeah, that's a lot of content.
I think one of the sets that jumped out of me, the most was
the percentage of listeners who actually subscribe to the
podcast or follow the pod. Gasps think it was, what 42%?
So just kind of a reminder, if you're a regular listener, just
stumbled across the podcast for the first time, go out there and
subscribe to the podcast, it really will help you, you know,
know, when new episodes are out there and like, Jeff kind of
alluded to. We put a lot of content out
there. At least every week.
We'll take a little break over the holiday.
Then we'll be recording episode 200, which I think it's a pretty
major milestone. Yeah, we had some we have some
pretty interesting ideas how that might work.
So I think what we'll probably hit 200 sometime in February or
March depending on sort of the cycle but yeah kind of another
milestone for us but yeah. Definitely you know the one the
one thing that everyone can do to help us as hit that follow
button or subscribe button. That helps us out you know, lat
and obviously listening and sharing with with your friends
or enemies. I don't care.
You know, if you don't like somebody, you like these guys
suck send to somebody you hate, we don't care.
It sucks for listening that's all that matters.
Okay, so that's where things stand at the end of the year.
For the podcast, we've got coming up for grabs a couple of
weeks here, where we take our break.
We're going to close out this year with a recap of what should
2020 to be remembered for from an identity perspective and then
get into some predictions for the future.
We've brought back our friend Jared Brennan, he's a principal
consultant and VC so virtual see.
So with side Channel back on to the show.
Welcome Back Jarrod. Thanks.
Jeff thanks Jim's going to be talking to you guys again.
Yeah it's been a while. This is going to be episode like
192 or 93 probably 193 and the last time you were with us was
episode 60 back in September of 2020.
So we already know your eye agent.
Origin story from an identity perspective.
If you don't know it, go back and listen episode 60.
We're not going to make you rehash.
It all over again, but what's been going on going on the last
couple years you know with yourself and then some things
that might have been working on. Yeah, yeah.
Back in 2020. I would have still been with
sale point. I was in an advisory role,
they're having conversations like this, but I had an
opportunity to move into the startup world and help focus on
both working with a start-up. And then also helping startups,
build Security, Programs that align with how quickly they're
moving that align with the risk. Appetite of leadership.
Very Very different from what you see in the large, make a
corporate or prize, but all the principles are still the same.
The foundations are the same. It's just finding that right
balance. So, I've also spent a little bit
of time playing around with web three.
I do have some cryptocurrency. I'm still holding my Dogecoin,
hoping it'll pop back UPS, whatever's left, right?
Yeah. Whatever is left, but I've
really landed on on blockchain. Is it?
Technology with tremendous untapped potential.
And so I want to learn, I want to do this handle and I want to
build my own daps. I want to work with other folks
who were playing around in that space because that it's
absolutely fascinating to me and I'm teaching like a madman.
I've been working with LinkedIn learning for a few years now.
And I think I've got Almost 30 courses and the library some
courses on app SEC courses on, I've got a building
cybersecurity for startups course out there.
I've got a course in ethics that they actually published a
Spotify, so I can go to Spotify and see my picture blows my
mind, but I'm really digging that and then the, the work I'm
doing now, with side Channel, I'm as you mentioned, I'm a VC.
So for multiple startups, So I have some companies that just
want a few hours of security leadership a week and then
they've got resources internally to help keep the the program
growing. And I've got other companies
that have no formal security program and they reach out and
say, hey, where do we start? How to, how do we actually
execute, how do we get to a point that we can meet contract
obligations and, you know, protect our IP and it's I don't
know, it's it's more my vibe. More my style.
That's startup space is it's a lot of fun.
I mean it's stressful but it's the kind of stress I want.
It's it's pretty swell and you've put out a lot of content
as well. Like you mentioned that all the
LinkedIn learning. I'll put a link to that in the
show notes so people can check that out.
It is cool to see people contributing sort of, to the
knowledge of the universe. When it comes to stuff, an easy
to understand and easy, to kind of grok to Use an older term,
right? Nut and pull into it.
So I think it's pretty cool. I'm glad you touched on the DC
so thing because you know, I think sometimes it's a little
bit of a mystery. Like what does a virtual see?
So do are you a hologram right? Do you just appear out of the
blue? Like how does this work?
Do you like? Yeah, I know for company.
I dig that as a Halo fan letter of reference now it's funny.
I personally prefer the term fractional because the the
reason startups and it's usually Startups, who make the
investment. They just don't have the
capital, the money set aside to invest in a full-time security
leader, but they also don't necessarily need somebody for 40
50 hours a week. They may just need somebody
who's more advisory or somebody who can step in and manage
vendors or help them select the right technology or make a
decision about what the the process should look like to
again, strike that balance. So It's in some companies.
It's still kind of army of one where you know you're rolling up
your sleeve and you're running burps cans and you're going
through boner ability, scan reports and you're building out
security awareness training at other companies.
You know, I have one where I'm in more of a mentorship role
where they have a security leader at the company and it's
that person's First Security leadership role.
And if Having conversations with the executive leadership team
and conversations with the board about the alignment between
security and business and really being able to demonstrate the
business value of a security program instead of security
existing for its own sake. I'm bringing all that experience
back and mentoring that individual so that they can step
into the role. Because at VC, so gig isn't
meant to be permanent. It's meant to go in, help them
get their feet under them and then when they're ready to To
leave the nest and fly on their own.
You step away. And you go up another client.
Yeah, it's it's fascinating. It's a world that I didn't
realize how much I'd dig it until I was right in the middle
of it. Yeah, and it's a cool gig for
sure. And I think there's so many ways
that, you know, that type of talent can be tapped and enjoyed
and learn from right. You can be more public facing
right in that type of role, you can also be more behind the
scenes, right? The guy behind the guy and
really kind of setting, you know, someone up to be
successful within their organization.
So it's an interesting role. I certainly I certainly dig it
because you know I actually had a conversation today with a
company where, you know, there's For any person was an architect
that was that was just what they had, right?
It wasn't like a formal position anything like that and
eventually you know, this person took on more and more security,
you know, responsibilities but was never really formally
trained or brought up in that sort of environment.
So they had to get, you know, a bit of a crash course.
And I think this is a way to kind of accelerate that side
that side of learning. Yeah, one of the courses I've
got on LinkedIn learning, and it's quickly becoming my most
popular course is soft. Skills for Information Security
Professionals. Because so many of us have grown
up Tech, I'm a nerd through and through guys, you know, that but
the ability to talk to a non-technical audience and the
ability to step away from the details and communicate what we
do in a way that makes sense to them and helps get them on board
and you know, gets everybody moving in the same direction.
It's a whole skill set that. Unfortunately, we don't get that
exposure to When we're sitting down review on logs and
configuring tools, we just don't and so you're right.
You've that architect. I've worked with those folks.
I've been that guy and the ability to talk to somebody
about. What's it like to to sell an
idea to an executive who doesn't understand any of the acronyms
were using? It's a whole different skill set
but again, it's exciting. It's like you said, contributing
to knowledge. Helping people grow helping
people advance in their own careers.
That's the kind of stuff when I get to the end of my life, I'll
look back and say yeah, that was time.
Well spent Yeah. And the soft skills are
important. Jim knows which I preach like
being, you know, just to buy it, you know, the internal teams and
stuff like that about. You've got to be able to
articulate what it is that you're doing and why you're
doing it. Yeah, they're certainly a
natural gift to it. You know.
Some people are more comfortable in a public speaking environment
of presenting order maybe but it is absolutely critical for the
folks out there if you're if you're, you know, just getting
into this career I would definitely invest the time and
being able to figure out what is your voice when it comes to
Articulating your message. How would you deliver it?
How do you present it? How do you make it easily
understood? Because if you can't explain it,
you're not going to get the approval to move forward.
You're not going to get the funding nothing's going to
happen. I know.
Jim you and I have had conversations about the paths of
like that so I don't know if there's any words of wisdom.
You want to get the people out there when it comes to the
articulation of of their issues and what they're trying to
solve. I mean there are a lot of
communication skills that I think make you a better.
Communicator. But I think the key is you said
like there's natural skills, maybe and I do agree with that.
Some people are more Matt, naturally, talented with
communicating, but I think it's one of those things.
Even if you are naturally, talented work at it, get
opportunities to speak and tell your story.
They're not naturally occurring. Look for a group that you can
join, where you can practice articulating, your points and
and writing Things like that. As I do think there are natural
to some people, but unless you're using those skills are
going to soften. Yeah, if you'd told my high
school self that I would be you know hosting a podcast later on
and be comfortable speaking in front of an audience or you know
microphone or on camera, I would have been like you are
absolutely nuts like you are crazy, there's no way that's
happening. But yeah, it's an important
skill and I'm glad that it's getting some air time and
charity. Bring it up.
I think is it's really important for people to kind of think
about Alright, let's talk a little bit about identity and
access management, and when it comes to the year 2022, what
it's going to be remembered for. There's a lot of things.
I'm sure that we could probably pick from.
And the way they were going to kind of do this is just kind of
go person by person and kind of just discuss what that might
look like Jared. Being the guest of honor.
Today, we're going to start with you.
What is, what is the I am thing that 2022 is going to be
remembered for I know we don't have a solution yet but I firmly
believe we're going to look at what's happening in.
You know, pick your buzzword right.
Web 3, blockchain Dow, whatever you want.
To use this notion of decentralizing Technology.
We had everything one Prem in the data center and then we took
everything and started building it out in somebody else's Data
Center. And now we're saying we'll wait
a minute, do we need to keep all that identity?
Stuff in there, or can we make it the consumers responsibility?
The end-users responsibility to own and manage their own
identity? Where what we saw with bring
your own device, when the iPhone dropped and people started
bringing him into work. This notion of bring your own
identity of self, Sovereign, identity.
We've been talking about it for some time, but I think there
were some pretty big things that happened in the blockchain
space. This year that are well, and the
tech space in general that are are going to be seen as Catalyst
for an actual working. Very widely adopted
decentralized identity solution. They one of those is the, the
FTX Fallout is the disaster. That is the crash of that
exchange and when you you look at the nft Rose, you look at
board. A yacht club and you look at
everybody thinking well blockchain is just Owning a
picture and that's what most people outside of the space.
Think the technology can do, you know?
It led is crazy. It is to a lot of money floating
around. I've seen news coming out of
Miami who is trying to be the crypto capital of the world
where they were seeing millions of dollars a year on their
nightclub scene. And now they're lucky to see 10K
over three months and, you know as as all of this is bottomed
out and People have said, well, wait a minute, maybe NF teas are
the thing. I think it's giving us an
opportunity to look at the true capability of blockchain of the
compute capability of the code that you can build into the
chain. Not, it's not just a distributed
Ledger, you can build this, this Automation and you you have the
ability to move away from what we hold onto in cyber security
and identity as as Potentiality is one of the three legs of the
stool, right? It's part of the CIA Triad or
the AIC depending on on, where you cut your teeth.
And so, I think with the collapse of ft x and what we're
seeing right now with crypto prices dropping down.
If you also pair that with the tech layoffs, which it's been
devastating for a lot of individuals, but we're seeing on
average. And 10% of the workforce when a
company says, hey we're in the tech space.
We overcommitted we didn't count on the pandemic.
There was some other factor and now we can't sustain our
business unless we reduce our Workforce which is they're
polite, way of saying, put people out on the street but
they like if I look at meta, they'll say well, but we're
going to give Severance so that they've got a few months to get
their feet under them. You've also got a lot of wicked
smart people who Are going through a very adverse time in
their lives right now who are going to be left with a sour
taste in their mouth. When it comes to counting on big
megacorp or big company to provide my, my bread and butter,
my monthly bi-weekly income. And I think a lot of these,
these folks are going to say, you know what, if I've got
severed. So, I've got a few months to
play around. If they've wanted to explore
projects in, There in that block, 3 web shape web 3 Block
Chain space. Then there's a combination of
events here that they're coming together, right?
Convergence that. I think it's going to lead to
some really really cool stuff in the decentralized identity
space. you know, it's interesting that you mention
that as sort of like, the thing to be remembered for, I'm
thinking about Twitter and the dumpster fire that has become in
the last month and the Exodus. That's taking place to things
like mastodons. For example, right, right.
Here's the challenge. I have with this.
It is, it is not easy. I went to sign up for Macedon
account and I was, I okay, what server do I join?
How do I find my identity people, right?
That's pretty much what I use Twitter for, is for David to the
podcast and connecting with identity when we are pretty, you
know, a decent following. Their, I've noticed, not as
People posting on Twitter. So I'm like okay well where are
we at next, right. Macedon is you know do I need to
go and find what server people are connected to because even
though there's this whole concept of federation and its
really doesn't it the other day probably doesn't matter.
So much what server you're on. I still think it's important
because it becomes part of the address, right?
I don't want to sign on for like, you know, at I don't know.
I'll pick on Hotmail Hotmail die, what's wrong?
Yeah. To show my age right here on
that. I would probably want to have
the Art of a full cool server or something is more reflective of
the Persona that I'm trying to create and I just don't think, I
don't think we're there yet. It's not easy enough for the
average consumer to take advantage of these types of
services. You have to be almost like an
expert to be able to consume some of the stuff agree.
Absolutely it and it's very much tip of the spear but that's what
you know when I say what's the the Catalyst, right?
When we get five, ten years down the line and we look at We
engage with one another online with how we establish trust with
people. It with how we enable people in
third world countries or countries with a very low
standard of living to engage in digital economies and
participate as digital Citizens, We're going to be using
decentralized technology that leverages blockchain to do that.
And we're going to look at some of the things happening right
now, the people who are looking at all the Mastodon servers,
scratching their head thinking, I know, I'm just going to roll
the Dyson. Pick one right?
Those are the people who are at the Vanguard who are going to
lead the way into this this new way of doing identity.
So that's that's what I look at this year.
I am right there with you. I think you know there's a lot
of uncertainty right now but I also think if you talk to folks
who work in app Deb and you look at this this approach to devops
that was verboten. When we look at traditional
waterfall methodology, you mean you're just going to Automate,
all the right published test and nobody's going to sit down and
review it. And now it's standard, right?
If you're not moving that quickly, you're not keeping up
and you're not competing and that's when it was new, it was
scary. It was different.
People didn't know how to manage it.
When you were trying to secure it.
You were at a loss of how you're going to be able to demonstrate
compliance and security, when the codes already published a
prod before you even do, they were writing it.
But now it's already become commonplace and I think we're
going to see that same pattern but I'm right there with you.
Jeff. Yeah, we're very early in that
Jim. What do you think about
blockchain and sort of its role and where it stands today
especially? I guess in relation identity is
probably want to take it. But that's where you want to
take it. But I actually have a favorite
comments, where ya know systems yard because I was thinking, you
know, we had that event back in like 06 or 08 time frame where
the housing market collapsed and those of us Owned houses at that
time or maybe were laid off or suffered, some other kind of
financial catastrophe will never forget that.
But it's listen to a podcast about a year ago and it just
burned into my brain because the guy was saying, you know, if you
have cash, you're stupid, you're stupid, you need to deploy that
cash because cash is becoming less valuable.
And you know everything else is going up in price and okay.
Typically, that's right. But are you going to be the one
smart enough to jump off the Merry-Go-Round before?
Start spinning? A thousand miles an hour?
Another words, because if you were in 06, 07 and had no cash
and all you had were these assets.
They collapsed overnight basically and you couldn't get
out of them. So always have cash, that's what
I learned through that event. And I think what you're saying
is that this event that's happening now is going to burn
something. To the psyches of those people
we just don't know what to do shot.
Yeah that's a good way to look at it.
Jim they yeah yeah so my second point was on big or I'm sorry on
the blockchain and I was going to go specifically to crypto
currency and I think the way it's structured right now it's
like the wild west I mean Bitcoin went from what sixty
thousand dollars to fifteen thousand dollars in the course
of a year. Or and that is not a good
formula for our currency, maybe for a gamble or for a bet, but
the way it kind of like blew up from nothing to this huge amount
per coin and back down again. It's just you it's not a good
store of value. In that case, it's an investment
maybe but I think for it to become a store value needs more
stability. So you hear things about maybe
the government getting control of it, I'm not Sure.
I'm like 100% on board with that because they do think that one
of the advantages is that is not run by one government.
However, I think for it to have a future as a currency it's got
to be more stable and I think that's probably the path to get
there. So the last thing in terms of
the technology rate for identity and wallets and decentralized
identity, I mean, I'm on board with it.
I think it's a great good idea. I think people should be in
control of their identity and shouldn't have to sign up for
some third party, with their own privacy policy to, you know,
manage your identity and basically spy on you everywhere
you go. So that yeah that's my feeling I
think that's the part that I struggle with though is that is
so we can say, Okay itself sovereignty but who's running
that Network, you're still behold into whoever that Network
holder is is Going to be the government, a private entity,
some sort of public concern that Jeff please do because I, I want
an answer. The, the core cutter one of the
Core Concepts in the blockchain space is the concept of a dow
that decentralized autonomous organization which isn't a
network run by somebody. It's a different way of thinking
and it's it's hard to wrap your head around it.
When you sit down and say, How is this going to work?
If nobody's in charge? This is destined to fail.
This is not going to function and then you see these these
projects, these experiments working and functioning.
And they I know I've I've got opinions guys, that go Way
Beyond Tech. I've got social theory, economic
theory in and I tie it all together when I look at things
like this. And I'm also a parent of three
adult, children, 18, 20 and 22, and I have In the the
generational differences in what's important to one
generation versus the next and how they they approach
problem-solving. Now, I've got, you know books.
I could talk about that. I've read on the subject that
really helped me better articulate, the ideas of the
things that we're seeing in the things I wanted to understand
more and that notion of a decentralized autonomous
organization of taking the responsibility of proving that
you're Jeff and Moving that your gym, improving that the
transactions that are being executed in your name are
authorized by you the right person with a distributed Ledger
technology, we've got kind of this.
I don't want to call it groupthink, right?
I'm not orwellian right but but it does change the model
significantly. And if, if we start doing it, I
mean, I want to point out Jim that we accept Little green
pieces of paper here in the US as legal tender, as currency as
I'm going to give you this piece of paper for that food, or for
this house, or for this vehicle and you'll accept it.
There was a time where that that just wasn't the way we did
things and we introduced the concept of currency.
We've got central banks and in the system that we have now came
out of changes in how we interact with one another.
We're at the cusp of one of those changes based on the
advances in technology, and what we can do now with technology
that wasn't even conceivable hundreds of years ago, do I?
Yeah, I don't want to ramble too much guys, but this this notion
of decentralized, autonomous organizations can solve that
problem Jeff, but it's not going to be easy and it's not always
going to be pretty, but I think we'll get there.
I'm going to keep an eye out for it.
I think. I think that's one of the
biggest Ask questions that me as I couldn't Sumer.
And as someone sort of in the know, right?
In the identity side of how this should work, is whose where is
my day going to be and what? Who's going to have access to
it. Yeah.
And I think just kind of understand it's almost like I'm
gonna go back to my ass down, right?
Did I pick the right server to join or not?
I don't know. Alright, let's move along here
Jim. How about yourself, what is an
IM thing that 2022 is going to be remembered for?
So I put this question out on LinkedIn.
I guess some great feedback from some of our Think listeners of
the podcast. So Chris and been.
Kitaj basically said, one was incur careening.
So three people basically said meeting you and I and getting
back to in person which I thought those are all really
love the first question, first answer.
But, you know, getting back to in person, you know, especially
like conferences and things like that Jake, and for identity our
buddy fried enmity, say Said, Jake said, the increase in
credential related, breaches fries said, so many breaches of
Australian citizens data and then he put a sad face.
So what I was going to say is kind of the opposite of those in
a way because I was going to say what happened to all the
ransomware attacks, it seemed like 2020 2021, we're just like
one head. Like every week, we'd have a
headline. Talk about the 10 million
dollars in Bitcoin somebody paid out because their company got
ransomware and I know they're still happening, but they're not
as front pages they were. I think that I feel pretty safe
making that argument because I follow information security
news. And yeah I see them but it's
usually like oh this this Hospital chain near, you know
Akron, Ohio got rent, somewhere it and not the maid lied to
that. That's important.
But it's not like You know, they do Dr. Ransomware, something
like that, right? Or some company paid out 40
million dollars in Bitcoin because they got ransomware
which we did see happen, I think in 2021.
So, anyway, that was my answer. How about you doing?
You know, it's interesting that you bring a transfer because
when I was thinking about this question, I was like, well,
ransomware is still a thing. It's still happening.
And then I got to thinking about all bit more is okay.
Well why why aren't we talking about it as much?
And as why is it not making as much news, and I think it's
because we've got numb to it. It happens with so much
frequency now that it's just like any other, you know,
identity data breach. Okay, who got breached this week
or today? Or thank you very much Capital
One for telling me that my email again was found on the darknet.
Of course, it was, as you know, I mean, it was like just so much
going on, it's like, okay, we've gotten used to it.
So I don't know if I don't think that.
I don't think the numbers bear out that there are Less
ransomware attacks. I think if anything it's the
same and continues to grow, what I think is the air time, that's
it's given and the numbness that has a company with it.
You know, you came also wondering, I'm also wondering if
companies are defending better. In other words they're blocking
them more or the attackers are busy doing something else or
directing their efforts somewhere else.
And I'm I'm specifically getting at the war in Ukraine.
So we knew a lot of the attacks were, were em.
Mating out of Ukraine or Russia and with everything that's going
on there. With the war I'm wondering if
that has any kind of influence and, you know, you might be
right. The numbers might be out, be
down, but they're not, you know, I don't think that the headline,
the big ones. So I'm just wondering, well,
what do you think there is? Yeah, let's have to be C.
So in the room here, if you're advising somebody like where
it's what's the stance on ransomware right now?
Of all the clients I work with nobody's talking about it.
None of the leaders at the organizations are reading about
it in the journal, right? Or the times.
That they're not saying Jared, are we prepared for this now?
I'm still driving the point home of identity Centric.
Security, not only creating backups but testing them.
Don't table. Tops of your BCD are played in
your incident response plan. I mean that's standard fare with
every Client, but it's that's a really good point Jim.
It's not making the news that Business Leaders are reading and
I think that you're onto something there with also the
global activity. None of this happens in a
vacuum. It's all connected and if we had
folks who were targeting US based companies, who now have
bigger, priorities, Based on what they're in the midst of
then that would definitely account for that drop.
It could not have. It also could be that, you know,
maybe the West has seen you in a better light by folks who I
don't know. I mean I don't I'm trying to get
inside the head but certainly the US and the West has gotten
behind Ukraine in that situation.
Yeah. Now it's really insightful
because it Because I don't have folks asking me about it, and
I'm not seeing those stories and I'm like you, I've got my Feedly
that has all the the people I want to follow all the outlets I
follow. And it's crickets when it comes
to ransomware and I hadn't even noticed.
Yes, it's wild. It is interesting.
How much is faded away as I think is just hasn't gotten as
much air time. Is it?
You know, I didn't really think about it from the I guess the
current, you know, russia-ukraine thing that I
guess, just like any other business there.
Are certain number of Horses. And if those resources are tied
up elsewhere, you know, they've been shipped to a different
project, right? Exactly.
Let's see. Okay for myself, I thought about
this a little bit and I'm going to go back to April when I was
at RSA and I walked around the show floor and as I go k is the
year 2020. 20, trust everything, like everything is a zero, trust
product. Everything has something to do a
zero trust security and you know we've got to solve folks I have
to do is buy this one thing that will solve your zero trust, you
know, issues and you'll be good to go and I feel like it's the
year that zero trust. Sort of jumped, the Shark People
kind of got you know got drowned in that marketing of what is
actually zero trust in the real world and how does it actually
work and all the various components that actually go into
a true zero trust Network and it got obfuscated by the identity
marketing machine of multiple companies out there trying to be
part of that wave. That's what I'm thinking is for,
at least for me, what 2022 has been about it.
Has been the absolute battering of the zero trust name against
the the altar of marketing. yeah, I do you think Jared I had
a chance to hear John Kinder bag on a podcast or a webinar
talking about how the idea that he presented of zero trust what
over a decade ago is so misunderstood now and he if I
recall correctly has a somewhat low opinion of the nist special
publication on zero trust and I've worked with t' teams and
companies. I've been in advisory roles.
I've worked with sales teams and I know what it's like quarter to
quarter when they're trying to win, logos.
They're trying to close deals time, kills deals.
So what's the quickest way they can get there?
They know that this zero trust, buzzword clicks, it resonates
with business and Tech leaders or it did.
And so everybody internally would say, okay how do we
support zero? Trust.
You know, the message you get from kinder bag, is there is no
zero trust technology. That's not the point.
That's not the idea but the marketing teams are saying if we
can find a way to publish some collateral that says our product
enables zero trust, then when that executive, who says we need
zero trust is saying, I will give you budget.
If you can deploy zero trust, it's getting calls with sales
teams and then that's closing deals.
And That's driving that sales marketing conversation.
I think you're spot on their jet.
They it's just, it's noise. It's a terrific terrific concept
and I'm right there with John that, you know, that that
approach of of locking everything down and then only
opening up access when you need it is.
I mean, we used to call a principle of least privilege.
We even when we deploy Del Parts on the Mainframe back, if I say
back in the day, I know their shops are still running
Mainframe. But the notion of an Alp are was
to create that segregation there.
These are all ideas or concepts that help you get toward that,
that Panacea, right of zero trust, but, but yeah, sales and
marketing is not helping the case.
Jim. What are your thoughts on zero?
Trust in my diatribe? I think your drive tribes,
right? I mean, I think it's like become
overuse and people are sick of it.
And when people get sick of it's like, Liberty, A mutual
commercials, right? It's like, oh no, I hate this
already, which is quite sad, actually, because I think zero
trust is one of the most important security architectural
principles that has come out like during my lifetime.
I take it makes so much sense but it's the funny part was like
it's been around for a long time and had no play and then within
the last two years got Too much play.
So point that people are sick of hearing about it.
Don't want to hear about it anymore.
And and maybe I'm being a little bit too over-the-top here but I
think that's sad. I think that's a net loss.
Well maybe it'll be like bell-bottoms, they'll just come
around again in a few years and you'll be back in style.
All right, let's go to predictions for 2023.
Jared you're up first. What's a bold prediction that
you've got for us in the eye? Iím world for 2023, I think, and
I'm going to tie a few ideas here.
But again, this this is where I think we're headed, guys.
What we're seeing happening right now in Quantum, Computing
is going to have a downstream impact on how we do identity and
how the way we approach that idea of the identity Centric
security is going to be built out, like I just read a story.
About physicist creating a wormhole, an einstein-rosen
bridge. I mean this is 1935 is when
Einstein and Rosen pitched this idea of what we've come to call
Wormhole technology and the scientist physicist he did.
It said look, it's the crummiest tiniest Wormhole but it's a
wormhole. We observe the qubits and we we
can recreate it, right? It's legit.
There was a book, I read. Ed some years back by Arthur C.
Clarke, right, 2001. And Stephen Baxter, co-authored
this book called the light of other days.
This book was published something like 20 years ago and
they present the idea that scientists create Wormhole
technology. We start leveraging it for
communication and then they go on to talk about the
ramifications with Society, economies and such but II had
Ready earlier this year, been making my rounds at Regional
conferences and events. Talking about rethinking
cybersecurity in the quantum age because we're seeing a lot of
activity with post Quantum cryptography and you know, just
like I was saying with with blockchain, it's a different way
of thinking, a different way of approaching the the problem and
then the solutions to the problem with the the vetting
that nist has done around post Quantum cryptography.
Fe algorithms, they've been at it for five years and they've
been hammering away at these. It's just it's different mats
like lattice bath mat. It's not very large prime
numbers anymore. It's changing how we protect
data at rest and how we protected it Transit.
And if we're using Quantum Computing for good, cyber
criminals, with access to Quantum Computing, technology
are going to be throwing it at data that's been encrypted with
traditional encryption algorithms.
And so as we have to figure out, how do we protect data, how do
we encrypt data? We're we're also trying to think
of what to what does that CA a Triad mean going forward and do
we actually have to treat confidential data that we call
confidential today as confidential in the future
because if I've got data that I'm encrypting with 1020, bit
RSA key. Quantum computer with reasonable
error-free qubits. That is able to turn through.
Very large data sets. Very quickly is going to crack
that in minutes, a 2048 key. Which if you are listening, sisa
has a post Quantum cryptography roadmap bare, minimum bump your
keys up to 2048 because it buys you more time.
It's going to take a little more time to crack those keys, but
that data we're not going to be able.
Able to protect it and the way that we protect it today and if
I go back to my comments about blockchain, if we had a
technology that I could publish my social, my nine digit social
security number in plain text and say this does not have to be
confidential data anymore. We don't have to encrypt it.
We don't have to protect it because what I'm doing through
decentralized, identity and through blockchain enabled
technology. So the automation enabled
through the compute Power Within Blockchain deployment.
That's the right word for it. I can control when people use my
social, when somebody wants to run credit, when somebody goes
to apply for unemployment. When somebody goes to take out a
loan at that moment at that point in time the combination of
web three blockchain based technology and I think we're
still going to see this blend of web to web three.
Right? That the way we use Tech to Day
internet-based Technologies. If I can at that point in time.
Get a notification Jared do I have your permission to take
this action and I can provide that validation that yes I'm
Jared. And yes I said it's okay.
All these processes we have around freezing enough reason
credit at about the the car dealership running your credit
against all three agencies. When you want to drive a car off
the lot, it changes. And so I think that The quantum
post Quantum impact on encryption technology, and
communication technology, because there's a lot of impact
in the iot space is going to drive development for these
people in, this is again that convergence people who have this
window of time to say, look, I'm passionate about this, I grew up
in a world where I don't know what the future is going to look
like, right? I don't have a lot of certainty
of whether or not I'm going to be able to pay rent or whether
or not I'm going To have the job that I'm in now who will sit
down and start putting together solutions that are not
profit-driven, they're driven by the opportunity to better
society. And it's it's like the
open-source Revolution all over again.
But but with with a with this blockchain Centric technology.
So I really think that what we see in Quantum is going to have
that impact on different. Ease of doing things so that we
don't have to protect all the data that we protected.
A now it's not going to address everything.
If I look at military operations and I look at encrypted data,
that talks about informants and contacts that data will have
value forever because once that need is decrypted, the if
there's a regime, if there's a ruling power that has a grudge
and they went to take it out on the people who supported their
adversary, then Then they'll wait and that.
I do have a quick answer for that one, and that to me, is the
bigger scarier thing because that's loss of life, right?
That's that's a whole different ball.
Game than credit cards are socials, but there's a whole lot
of data that we are just. We're putting a lot of time and
money and effort into keeping secret into pretending that
nobody else is going to see it until we have another data
breach story in. Oh we had the OPM hack, we have
the solarwinds weird, Okay, so many Exposures where we just
have to solve the problem with different thinking and I think
Quantum is going to drive Block Chain, which is going to drive
some of that that generational shift you shift, you probably
heard that the saying, hard times, you know, this is sexist,
but I'm using like, like, quote from the guy who said it hard
times, create strong men, strong men, create Good Times.
Good Times. Create weak men and weak men.
Create, what is it hard to our times?
Yeah, so you've got this this generational cycle and a couple
of the books, I've read the fourth turning, which is how in
Strauss they approached it. From a historian perspective,
generational Theory and and looking at how one generation to
the next influences, things like technology.
And when I saw Ray dalio, Principles for dealing with a
changing World Order where he did it from an economists
perspective and a Leo's Bridgewater, right?
Incredibly successful hedge fund, 40 years in that space and
he landed on that same pattern of these different generations
and that's the other other concept that that's converging
here. Is why we see advances in
Quantum, we see blockchain technology kind of finding
legitimate use case. Has and people who understand
the full potential. You've also got an entire
generation of people who are looking at.
Their Futures saying I would rather build something that's
going to make life better for people around me, then make a
profit. I don't want to be a
billionaire. I don't even necessarily want to
be a millionaire. I want enough money to take care
of me in my own and then I want to put this thing out in the
world that's going to make everybody's life better even
people. I will never meet and as all
these things come together, you're going.
Find identity makes that happen. Because without that notion of
decentralized identity, we can't participate in these digital
economies, we can't participate in these processes and so it to
me, it's I know that's a long-winded.
I appreciate you guys got to sit here and just some thoughts on.
Yeah. Thoughts on the as you talk
about post Quantum and pre Quantum, my concern is well I
guess it depends on how you define those but But my concern
is that in between it's where there's some Quantum and others
that are non Quantum and if there's commercially based
quantum computers, but a lot of people, a lot of organizations
are still running non-count quantum computers and you end up
in this in-between, right? You've got every phone in the
world is all of a sudden not capable of encrypting his data.
Well enough to stop those with the quantum computer, here's
where I want. I need to go with this because
That. Potentially has major societal
impact in terms of it could erode trust in technology, very
quickly where that's what currency is based on, is based
on trust, it's based on the that if you give me that paper for
that, for the food I gave you, I can turn around and give that
paper to somebody else and get something else that I need.
Right. And whether it's cryptocurrency
or paper currency or Or you know, some numbers on the
screen, there's a trust factor involved.
Now, all of a sudden, the computer World goes to hell in a
handbasket. All the data is being broken.
That, that's my concern is that in-between stage, and it feels
like that's got to come, right? It's not like every computer at
the flip of a switch has all going to become Quantum, and
that's a really good College gym.
And one thing I'll share when I started digging into quantum.
Shooting what it means to actually use it.
One of the things that I learned is that while quantum computers
are great at tackling, very large data sets their garbage,
when it comes to watching videos on YouTube.
You do not want a Quantum phone so I don't know that we're going
to see a Tipping Point where where we suddenly, everything
has to be Quantum, but I think that that period of time where
we've got traditional digital, you know, ones and zeros.
Pewters they're still used for them and it's not going to
change, it's not going to go away.
But in this this subset where we've got 10s and then ones and
zeros at the same time, the whole notion of superposition of
quantum Computing is going to have a very specific use case
and we're going to see. I mean threat actors will use it
to try to decrypt data but as we have security vendors, who are
pulling in more and more data for logging and monitoring to
try to determine What normal looks like and can we detect a
threat actor the ability to go through that data and very
quickly make a decision. Yes, this this is somebody using
Jeff's account. He's not in North Korea right
now, trying to log into his Office 365 account the the speed
at which they'll be able to identify and respond in the
accuracy with which will be able to do that.
But that's a very specific use case for Quantum but I really
think the decryption is the one that has everybody's attention
but I don't think We're going to see it on smartphones and I
thought the same thing until I'll see if I can find the video
and share the link with your Jeff.
You can put in the show notes of a scientist in Finland, who
knows, a hell of a lot more about Quantum than I ever will
and he laid it out pretty simply.
And I set back and said hi. Okay, that makes sense, I get it
now, I hear your point. They just I'm sorry.
Jeff one last Point. Don't even get me started all in
artificial intelligence and Fakes and the fact that I can
throw a random sentence into dolly or Dolly to and have it
generate all this AI art that has the art community Shook and
we're going to see, you can use AI to do copywriting which has
the marketing Community wondering, am I going to have a
job? If they can replace me with this
this website that rates better copy than I do and your notion
of? Yeah we need that trust.
We don't even know when we're on LinkedIn and we're looking to
profile pictures if that's a real person or not because a lot
of the The Fakes on LinkedIn, Rai generated profile pics.
And so yeah. There's there's a lot a lot that
you said there about trust that we could go a lot deeper into
that. I I got sad and scared when you
were talking early on Jared. And here's why you talked about,
okay? I'm going to be able to control
when you know where my data is being used and how it's going to
be used. And and you get notified when
someone's using it for a loan above LA.
And I immediately went to we already have that problem today
with MFA and I say fatigue getting spammed with text
messages, push notifications, you know whatever it may be and
it's a it's it's a known thing at this point where, you know,
if you if you send enough, you know faulty, you know or bad bad
a second Factor requests, someone will press OK on it.
And I got thinking about that too, is like oh no.
Here we go again, I'm going to get spammed with.
Hey your SSN was used here by blah blah or hey you know I do
you want to connect to this bank account its going to come come
come come come through and there will be a certain set of the
population that at some point just to make their to stop the
headache will hit. Yeah.
Okay. It's either because they don't
know, no, you know, better or not and I'm sure there will be
hopefully better safeguards in that spot.
But I was sad there for a moment.
No, that's it's a good point. Jeff.
I mean, anybody can go out to sign up for a Google Voice
number and then they don't have to work hard to spoof.
They have a legitimate Voice number that they can use to send
texts and pretend to be somebody else.
What I'm hoping. And, and I firmly believe that
someone will solve this problem. Is that the, the verification
that the person I'm interacting with this really who, I think
they are. We can solve that with this
distributed Ledger. If there are enough enough
sources that Say yeah, this is really Jeff and this is really
Jim and and that's who's talking to who, then we don't have fake
profiles and we don't have MFA notices coming from somebody
that we didn't allow. And I know that's not the whole
problem, the notion of who can trigger the request on the
Chain. If we have people who understand
this a lot better than I do in the weeds building, a
decentralized application, that has that trust built in from the
Core from from the ground up, right?
And that get to that it's not zero trust, maybe it's true
trust right? I'm here patent pending we need
a powder yeah we better neighborhood - Frost or but then
we can build that and and I say that because if you look at what
computers used to look like in the 50s where they took up
entire floors of Metropolitan Office Buildings.
And now I've got Computer that has access all over the world
that fits in the palm of my hand.
We solve that problem. I say we people smarter than me,
solve that problem. It took them a minute.
It took a lot of trial and error, but they solved it.
And the problem that you're identifying right now needs to
be at the top of the list, right?
This is a use case. We need trust to ensure that
people can't exploit the MFA fatigue attack that they can't
abuse this system that decentralized.
Identity really proves who we are to one another and if they
build it in from the ground up, then it may take a couple of
decades but we'll get there and we're seeing it right now.
We're seeing the cusp of it. So we're running long but I'm
enjoying the conversations, we're going to keep going and I
went a little programming note. We are actually are heard in the
Republic of Korea. We actually have listeners
there, so, which is absolutely crazy for our podcast.
Jim. What is Your prediction, you're
bold prediction for 2012. Sorry was I Daddy.
I want to start with the fact that that post that talked about
David Stromer responded to his prediction was decentralized ID
as well as verifiable credentials.
He's in the banking industry and he's looking at look it really
comes down to trust. So everything that Jr.'s
been talking about I think is right up the alley of what David
brought up. So I think we talked about at
that enough. I'm going to go on the more
tactical, end of the spectrum, Jake and fried entity were
thinking the same thing as me, which is this is the year of
Paso Robles. I know that sounds like what a
big bold prediction but that a few conferences this year and
that was the soup du jour. But also I started to hearing a
lot of presentations from actual companies who are implementing
it now, they seem like companies that were more on the Edge of
Technology more on The Cutting Edge of identity but I think
what you're going to see is that it becomes more commonplace and
two reasons why I think if you are already doing MFA, it's kind
of the next step, in terms of giving a better user experience
to your end user. And even if you're not or if you
are either way, what value does the password really?
Add in a multi-factor authentication.
I mean, if you're doing a biometric, what is, what is the
password, add to that? In fact, I think, when you've
really inspect what the password does to the chain, in terms of
the quote, unquote unhappy path, which I talk about it all the
time. It's you have to have some way
for people to unlock the password or maybe use the
password as some form of, you know, hey, I don't have my
biometric but I know my password.
So maybe you are who you say? You say you are I just don't
think the password adds value to the chain anymore.
And so I think that people are absorbing that I think not.
Everything's going to be pastoralist next year but I
think you're going to see the wave grow significantly Jared
when it comes to your perspective on Pastor.
That's where do you stand right now.
Love it to death. It's a guy's eye when I'm
talking about passwords, I go back to Monty Python and the
Holy Grail in the French Connecticut.
John Cleese Standing On Top yelling, what's your password?
And it that the back and forth, that's literally, the technology
that we're using today, we've just implemented it with ones
and zeros. Instead of two people yelling
back and forth, over a castle wall.
The, the big concern I have, when I look at password, listen
and this is a little offshoot is From a legal perspective.
When we talk about authenticating two devices, we
talked about Biometrics, we talked about, you know, taking
the password out of the mix, we still have a challenge in the US
with the court system, understanding the application of
the Fourth Amendment when it comes to technology.
So I'm a full disclosure paid member supporter of the
Electronic Frontier Foundation, absolutely believe in the
mission of that organization. And and In the work that they're
doing. And when I look at cases where
an individual might be asked to turn over to Vice or to Grant
access to something that the current law.
The ruling precedent, I should say is that you can't be forced
to tell somebody your password, but you can be forced to hold
your finger to a fingerprint reader to unlock something and
that's fundamentally. It's the same principle that
there. A lock and I have the authority
to either unlock or lock that lock to Grant access to whatever
is on the other side. And if we go full-on password
list without resolving the legal issues, we are going to have
cases where people are turning over information that they don't
want to turn over that, they're not legally obligated to turn
over, but it's being interpreted, like that in a
court of law. I just want to see that figured
out. I have a, one of my former
neighbors is a Defense lawyer and I asked him about a
point-blank. I'm like how if if a and b are
the same thing. It's just a different
implementation, the same technology than why is it
interpreted for differently. And it's the answer to me was
well it's because whoever argued the case, the one attorney did a
better job than the other that terrifies me guys.
But yeah, that's my one. Hesitation my one concerned
about going full-on. Password list is the legal side
of it. Yeah, that is an interesting
point. I think, yeah, I mean, how
quickly will laws of the land, catch up to technology, they're
notoriously behind, right? Yeah, I think that would scare
off, you know, some folks from thinking about that perspective
as okay. Well, you know, if we're really
trying to provide the best security, you could make the
argument that password lists based on that interpretation of
the law, lowers your security. Yeah, which is absolutely
asinine in my head but that's where we are today.
I think it's going to A very ugly, very uncomfortable court
case and nobody wants to volunteer to be the defender in
that case. Nobody wants to be on the
defense of of setting that precedent.
But I think that's what's going to need to happen in order for
us to land on a better understanding.
Alright, so here's my bold prediction for 2023 on identity,
I went completely the opposite way of both.
You guys I think it's going to be a year where we go back to
basics a bit more. Fundamentals.
When it comes to access management identity governance,
privileged access, I think we're going to see a lot of
organizations really taking stock of their core identity and
access management use cases, capabilities, and Technologies
and going back and really nailing those fundamentals
better than maybe they have in the past.
I think part of that's going to be driven by the economy.
I don't think there's going to be, I think we're seeing a
pullback at least on the US side.
So I think there's going to be a question to to say hi.
We do more with less or do better with what we have already
and try to button up some of those holes.
So the way I see it is I think I think we'll see more companies
really getting back to the basics a little bit.
Maybe they've been distracted over the last few years with
things like zero. Trust.
Yeah or analytics or a I right or things like that.
And there I think they will have gone through this process where
there's like, oh yeah we bought this thing and we can't you
really use it the way we thought because we In do this, other
really important thing first, we didn't solve our data quality
issue, or we didn't actually fix our business process to align
with the way that our tools work where the way we want them to
work at things like that. So I think it'll be, you know,
Going Back to Basics and and figuring out how to get those
done first. And I think that's a good thing
because I think we continue. I need to go back and review
things and not just sit on our Laurels and say, okay, well we
saw that problem five years ago so that's good.
Things have changed. Changed and there, probably
needs to be a little re-architecting of process.
Maybe people, maybe technology right to modernize and move with
the times and catch back up, and then that sets you up for the
next cycle of, okay, well, we're comfortable where we are now.
What's next? Let's go to XYZ, whatever the
ends up being blockchain Quantum voice, Biometrics decentralized,
you know, Identity or salsa or identity, right?
Or things like that. So that's where I think things
are headed. I don't know.
Jim. You and I we work a lot
together. You know, what do you think
about what I'm thinking is my bold prediction of of going back
now to the Stone Age but going back to the basics, namely
knows, I mean, it makes sense, especially given the economic
premise that you put forth. That companies are going to be
strapped for money potentially if that if that plays out
because I don't think that's a guarantee people calling for a
recession recession. A lot of times when that's
Nobody's saying there's going to be a recession that's when the
recession doesn't happen. So, and by the way, I'm not
telling people to keep saying that.
Yeah yeah, yeah, go for it. But in that context and
companies do with what what, you know, I need to make myself
valuable around here. What am I going to do?
The thing that I think hurts that perspective Chef?
Is that I think the demand for cybersecurity talent definitely
outweighs what's available today.
And I think that, you know, a lot of folks are in their roles
and I am or nor and kind of stretch Each opportunities which
isn't a bad thing. I mean we've all been there, but
it makes it hard to know what to do to kind of get back to
fundamentals when you you're like new to the position, right?
I think so. Yeah, I think that's where, you
know, the community comes together, right?
And, you know, I'll point to ID Pro, which is a great community
of identity people. The very healthy slack channel
that exists where people can drop in and ask questions and
things like that. I think we benefit from a time
where Where there is so much more information.
As of right now, today around identity and how to get things
done. Then there was this time of year
ago and expect exponentially more than, you know, years and
years and years ago, as people have gotten into this.
You could pop up a YouTube video about anything.
And look on any topic, right, we basically have gone into the
Matrix where, you know, Neal learns come to, yeah, right.
You're downloading things. The same thing.
Like, I'm pulling up the skill right away and I'm seeing how
it's done. It's a little micro training.
Ali. So I think, I think, I think
you're right and that there will be people who, you know, maybe
don't have that experience, but I think they benefit also from
the people who came before them and the contribution to the body
of knowledge that exists as a whole from society.
Specifically identity, you know, jarrod's doing LinkedIn and
training and other things. We're doing this podcast, right?
Our friend Andrew is doing videos on YouTube and he's also
doing LinkedIn learning stuff. So there's just so much more
content out there. Now that I feel like it's easier
to catch up. What's missing from that
content, though? And this goes back to earlier,
Jerry you're saying is the soft skills.
Is, you can be the smartest person, we're all.
But you can't, if you can't articulate what it is, you're
trying to do nothing's going to happen.
So I think I think there's a yin and yang to it.
Yeah, if you're trying to get people to stay in, for the Long
Haul to build out a healthy identity program, convincing
them that, it's not all going to happen overnight that it's going
to be, you know, In some cases, you talk about role-based access
controls, if you large Enterprise in, you're deploying
technology that even if it's leveraging AI to go through or
machine learning and turn through all that data, to help
you arrive more quickly at what that are Beck program.
A break program might look like it's still going to take a
minute and keeping people interested.
Keeping people, excited is not. You can't do it with stats.
You can't deal with numbers but I really do like the notion
Jeff. One.
If you combine the ID Pro Community with the identity to
find security Alliance, which is more vendor driven, vendor
Centric, I think the resources between those two organizations
for identity professionals, if you never set in the seat
before, and your boss comes to you and says guess what?
You're the identity person figure it out.
You've got a world of knowledge and people hungry to share with
you right there between those two, those Those two groups, but
I also love the the notion of fundamentals fundamentals when
the day anybody who's read the book Moneyball knows that, you
know, you don't have to hit a home run every time you're up to
bat, you just got to get on base.
You get enough enough? Folks who understand the
fundamentals and could keep that that machine moving forward,
then you're staying ahead of the people who do you harm?
You're staying ahead of The Accidental incidents that result
in harm or disruption to the business.
Yeah fundamentals I hope you're right on that man.
I really do i-i'll talk about Quantum in all the kind of far
out years out. I think there's still a critical
need for people to be focusing on Innovation.
But you know, you've if everybody is focused on
Innovation and nobody's focusing on fundamentals, will never get
there, right? Because things are all going to
fall apart before then. All right, I think we've set a
record officially for our longest episode ever.
So we're going to start to wrap things up.
We're going to end on a lighter note, as we always do, but we'll
try to keep it brief if we can and we're going to stay with the
predictions. So what is your non-identity
related prediction for 2023? Jared you go first.
All right, I've got to number one.
I predicted people who listen to this podcast.
We're going to reach out to me on LinkedIn and keep the
conversation going. So let's see how accurate I am
on that one. I will have a LinkedIn in our
show notes so people will make it a lot bigger people.
I really appreciate that, but I'm a big movie buff.
I, you know, you can look me up on IMDb I, that's a whole nother
story. The number of screenplays are
written, the number of shorts that I've shot.
I'm actually in a feature on to be it's bong of the Living Dead.
It's a zombie Stoner comedy, that was Shot here in Columbus
Ohio. I'm a Zombie.
See if you can pick me up, but my other prediction is
movie-related. I predict that people who go see
Guardians of the Galaxy 3 and theaters are going to be crying
like babies before that movie, stun.
Really think that James Gunn is he's brilliant.
He knows that he and Tycho with TD are two of my favorite story,
tellers. And I think with, with this
culmination of the Guardian story that it's going to tug on,
Heartstrings in a way that people aren't ready for.
That's my prediction. All right, well, I'm prepared
for that. I'm a garden is Galaxy fan and I
love taika waititi and is his take on the Marvel Universe.
I think Thor 11 Thunder and yeah.
Thor Ragnarok are two of my favorites because they don't get
serious. It's just fun movies.
All right, Jim. How about yourself, what's your
non-identity prediction for 23? Well, I'm going to make a
prediction about the identity at the center podcast.
We had a double up on our listenership this year.
I'm going to predict from They're double up.
So we won't know if I was right until the end of 2023.
But I mean I think we're, you know, we're getting great guests
like Jared and, you know, we're being consistent, putting out
episodes every week and people seem to appreciate it.
So, you know, as they spread the word I think it happens.
What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I hope you're
right. I think, you know, people
sharing it, following it subscribing to it, you know, as
all good stuff, you know, being just part of the, I think the
little kind of Unity that we've built here together.
I think it's been a lot of fun. So you know we certainly have
met listeners and those have been opened, you know, super
positive experiences and got to do some interesting things,
maybe in Las Vegas together, which was something that we will
talk about on the podcast. But if you were there, you know
exactly what we're talking about.
So yeah, I mean, hopefully that'll kill continue to roll.
Will keep doing it for as long as we're having fun, doing it.
And we'll try to keep it as true to home as we can and not make
it a commercial for any anything and kind of a vendor neutral.
Safe place. The goal here.
Mine is somewhat selfish. I'm going to say here that in 23
2023. The Cubs are going to beat the
Cardinals when they play in London during June of twenty
twenty-three because I actually have tickets to the game one of
the games there and I'm planning on being in London for watching
one of those games. So I'm hopeful that my Chicago
Cubs will beat the Cardinals at least one of those games.
Hopefully, what I'm at Cubs have not been good.
The last couple of years, we are still celebrating the world.
Series from several years back. I think they've, you know, if
that's that's totally been fine for a lot of people, but I'm
expecting a Cubs Victory when I attend the game Inland.
So that's my prediction. All right.
We're officially an hour and 15 are longest Episode.
By far, we're going to go ahead and wrap it up for this week and
probably this year as well. So I want to thank everyone
who's been part of this journey with us.
Listening, we're on the web identity, the center.com, or on
Twitter so far idac. Guests, who knows, maybe 23 will
bring a mastodon account of some sort.
Maybe we'll be over there but we're looking forward to
connecting with Folks at conferences that will be at over
the next year. I Denver's Gartner probably
other ones that I'm missing and not just thinking about the
moment but those are the two ones that come to my mind.
And if you have ideas and comments for the show, hit us up
on LinkedIn to show do to be chock full of stuff for this
one. We'll have Jared's LinkedIn,
will have the LinkedIn learning sort of playlist that also
includes Jared stuff. Links to identify verse Gartner,
Jim. And I and I'm sure a bunch of
stuff that I forget right now. So with that, we're going to go
ahead and leave it. Thanks everyone for listening
and we'll talk with you all in the next one.
Thanks for listening to the identity at the center podcast.
If you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe and
visit us on the web and identity at the center.com.