1
00:00:09,700 --> 00:00:12,500
You're listening to the identity
of the sender podcast. 

2
00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:14,900
This is the show that talks 
about identity and access 

3
00:00:14,900 --> 00:00:18,100
management and making sure you 
know who has access to what 

4
00:00:18,100 --> 00:00:26,000
let's get started. 
Welcome to the identity of the 

5
00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,800
center podcast I'm Jeff and 
that's Jim. 

6
00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,300
Hey Jim hey Jeff, how are you? 
Oh not so bad yourself. 

7
00:00:31,700 --> 00:00:34,900
I'm doing great man and today 
was a really fun day. 

8
00:00:34,900 --> 00:00:41,500
Got to participate in a Carolina
identity Roundtable webinar. 

9
00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:47,700
I guess is what you would call 
it joined by you joined by 

10
00:00:47,700 --> 00:00:51,700
Ashley ruse. 
Let's go and browse their route 

11
00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:53,800
that's going. 
And this whole party should have

12
00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:54,600
just give me the names. 
Yeah. 

13
00:00:54,700 --> 00:00:59,300
Ashley Beth and prints. 
It was a great conversation 

14
00:00:59,300 --> 00:01:01,100
that's for sure. 
Thanks to Tom Lennon for 

15
00:01:01,100 --> 00:01:03,400
inviting us. 
Not only to the CO2, the to the 

16
00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,400
webinar itself. 
But to the group, I'm a recent 

17
00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,400
Carolina transplant. 
So I kind of went with my feet 

18
00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,900
that one pretty easily. 
Yeah. 

19
00:01:12,900 --> 00:01:14,200
Yeah. 
It was a really good 

20
00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,700
conversation about our back, the
gift that keeps on giving. 

21
00:01:18,700 --> 00:01:21,800
I mean you know we've been 
dealing with our back since our 

22
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,700
first days in identity access 
management. 

23
00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:29,000
In its here this year, it'll be 
here next year, which goes with 

24
00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,800
our theme of what's hot at the 
end of the year. 

25
00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,900
You know what, what happened in 
the past year, what's happening?

26
00:01:35,900 --> 00:01:38,800
In the coming year are back. 
We'll be there. 

27
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,300
Yeah, that's for sure. 
I was kind of surprised actually

28
00:01:42,300 --> 00:01:47,000
how far along each of them were 
with their Journeys, and their 

29
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,400
organizations. 
And I haven't, I haven't 

30
00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,100
listened to the replay yet, so 
my hope is that I'll be able to 

31
00:01:53,100 --> 00:01:56,100
turn it into an episode. 
In the future that will play. 

32
00:01:56,100 --> 00:01:59,400
Maybe in January. 
This is most likely our last 

33
00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,300
episode for the year. 
We usually take a few weeks off 

34
00:02:02,300 --> 00:02:05,400
here between Christmas New 
Year's and sort of getting 

35
00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,300
started in the New Year getting 
feet settled. 

36
00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,900
So we're going to talk about I 
guess, kind of identity and 

37
00:02:11,900 --> 00:02:15,000
retrospective you know, things 
that happened through the year 

38
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,200
2022, What's it gonna be 
remembered for maybe some 

39
00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,500
predictions for next year? 
But yeah, I'm looking forward 

40
00:02:20,500 --> 00:02:22,300
to. 
I got it was, it was a fun 

41
00:02:22,300 --> 00:02:23,700
conversation. 
I had a great time with it. 

42
00:02:23,700 --> 00:02:27,400
Kind of emceed it. 
Had a panel discussion and had 

43
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,900
some good interaction with the 
audience and, you know, 

44
00:02:29,900 --> 00:02:31,400
questions and stuff like that. 
So it was fun. 

45
00:02:32,300 --> 00:02:34,200
I had a good time. 
You've gotten really good at 

46
00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,700
that man. 
I think it's all your podcasting

47
00:02:36,700 --> 00:02:38,500
time. 
Yeah. 

48
00:02:38,500 --> 00:02:41,300
Put a I can't do anything about 
the voice but at least I was 

49
00:02:41,300 --> 00:02:42,800
prepared. 
So I guess that's the probably 

50
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,400
the most important thing. 
So what else we have going on in

51
00:02:46,408 --> 00:02:47,300
awe? 
There's a couple things that 

52
00:02:47,300 --> 00:02:49,700
have been working on with 
identify verse. 

53
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,500
They're looking, you know, stole
I think the call for speakers is

54
00:02:52,500 --> 00:02:55,500
still open and that's definitely
about you and I are going to try

55
00:02:55,500 --> 00:02:58,300
and hit next year. 
Still open. 

56
00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:04,000
We'll put the link to the, put 
the link to the call, two 

57
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,000
speakers in the show notes. 
Obviously, it's one of the 

58
00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,000
biggest identity conferences of 
the Year gardeners. 

59
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,300
Usually, the other biggest 
Conference of the year. 

60
00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:16,800
And I think that people need to 
be aware that that conference is

61
00:03:17,100 --> 00:03:21,900
taking place in March this year.
A different location near Dallas

62
00:03:21,900 --> 00:03:26,200
Texas. 
Yeah so Usually Gartner is like 

63
00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,000
the first week of December, a 
kind of right after 

64
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,000
Thanksgiving. 
I'm not sure yet. 

65
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,100
If it's smart to pull it 
Forward, I think it is because 

66
00:03:33,100 --> 00:03:35,700
there's probably more budget 
still available at that time 

67
00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:37,600
versus towards the end of the 
year. 

68
00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,300
When people like, okay, what can
I spend my money on? 

69
00:03:39,300 --> 00:03:42,100
Oh, there's a conference, like, 
that's how we can use it, which 

70
00:03:42,100 --> 00:03:44,500
is also has benefits. 
Because, hey, there's money left

71
00:03:44,500 --> 00:03:45,700
over. 
What are gonna spend it on? 

72
00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:47,200
Let's go send people to a 
conference. 

73
00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,200
So I would be interesting. 
Yeah. 

74
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,500
How that, how that works out, 
but it's definitely be aware 

75
00:03:51,500 --> 00:03:53,200
Gartner is much earlier this 
year. 

76
00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,900
It is in March. 
I mean the date changes big but 

77
00:03:56,900 --> 00:03:59,200
I think location changes even 
bigger. 

78
00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,200
It's been in Las Vegas for as 
long as I could remember. 

79
00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:07,500
Announcing being doused Sexes. 
I'll enjoy that. 

80
00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:09,700
I mean I was kind of getting 
sick of Vegas. 

81
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,900
My last visit. 
Nothing against Vegas are people

82
00:04:12,900 --> 00:04:17,100
from Vegas but you know you only
stay there so long on this trip 

83
00:04:17,100 --> 00:04:20,200
before you had too much. 
I like Vegas. 

84
00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,600
So we'll see grape Grapevine 
Texas. 

85
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,800
Here we come for Gardner, you 
and I are planning on being 

86
00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,700
there. 
So, so we got that going on. 

87
00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,900
We're going to, I should say. 
Also while we have our break 

88
00:04:31,900 --> 00:04:34,000
going on, we're working on some 
pretty big stuff. 

89
00:04:34,300 --> 00:04:36,300
So hopefully people will stick 
around with us and come back 

90
00:04:36,300 --> 00:04:39,400
when we're back in January. 
When, hopefully we'll have some,

91
00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,900
some big announcements that will
be able to make for next year, 

92
00:04:41,900 --> 00:04:46,400
as well, State of the Union. 
When it comes to the podcast, we

93
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,300
had another great year. 
I could, we can say that. 

94
00:04:49,300 --> 00:04:53,100
As we ended 2022, we have 
doubled our listeners again. 

95
00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,500
Both zero is still zero but we 
actually have listeners around 

96
00:04:57,500 --> 00:04:59,300
the world. 
Thousands of folks tuned in, 

97
00:04:59,300 --> 00:05:02,800
which is absolutely nuts. 
This is the, you know, the third

98
00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,400
year that we've been doing is 
podcast and every year we've 

99
00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,900
been doubling and it is purely 
through Word of Mouth. 

100
00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,000
We have you know, no budget 
other than whatever Jim and I 

101
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,800
decide to put into it and we 
don't do any advertising, so 

102
00:05:15,100 --> 00:05:17,600
it's purely word of mouth and 
people sharing it. 

103
00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,300
I saw a stat the other day that 
we are in the top 10 of the most

104
00:05:21,300 --> 00:05:24,100
shared podcasts in the world for
all. 

105
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,600
Cast, which is absolutely nuts. 
And we put out something like 

106
00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:32,800
two thousand, six hundred 
minutes of content in 2022 

107
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,000
alone. 
So if you think about like how 

108
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,800
much we've put out there, like 
where it's the stat was like 

109
00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:42,200
we're in the top 3% of all 
content produced from a podcast 

110
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,700
perspective. 
Yeah, that's a lot of content. 

111
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,600
I think one of the sets that 
jumped out of me, the most was 

112
00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:52,700
the percentage of listeners who 
actually subscribe to the 

113
00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:57,900
podcast or follow the pod. 
Gasps think it was, what 42%? 

114
00:05:57,900 --> 00:06:01,900
So just kind of a reminder, if 
you're a regular listener, just 

115
00:06:01,900 --> 00:06:05,200
stumbled across the podcast for 
the first time, go out there and

116
00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,600
subscribe to the podcast, it 
really will help you, you know, 

117
00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:13,200
know, when new episodes are out 
there and like, Jeff kind of 

118
00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,500
alluded to. 
We put a lot of content out 

119
00:06:15,500 --> 00:06:17,100
there. 
At least every week. 

120
00:06:17,500 --> 00:06:19,100
We'll take a little break over 
the holiday. 

121
00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,800
Then we'll be recording episode 
200, which I think it's a pretty

122
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,600
major milestone. 
Yeah, we had some we have some 

123
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,200
pretty interesting ideas how 
that might work. 

124
00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,800
So I think what we'll probably 
hit 200 sometime in February or 

125
00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,300
March depending on sort of the 
cycle but yeah kind of another 

126
00:06:36,300 --> 00:06:39,400
milestone for us but yeah. 
Definitely you know the one the 

127
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,800
one thing that everyone can do 
to help us as hit that follow 

128
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,600
button or subscribe button. 
That helps us out you know, lat 

129
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,100
and obviously listening and 
sharing with with your friends 

130
00:06:47,100 --> 00:06:48,200
or enemies. 
I don't care. 

131
00:06:48,300 --> 00:06:49,800
You know, if you don't like 
somebody, you like these guys 

132
00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:51,900
suck send to somebody you hate, 
we don't care. 

133
00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:54,000
It sucks for listening that's 
all that matters. 

134
00:06:55,300 --> 00:06:57,600
Okay, so that's where things 
stand at the end of the year. 

135
00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,600
For the podcast, we've got 
coming up for grabs a couple of 

136
00:07:00,700 --> 00:07:02,300
weeks here, where we take our 
break. 

137
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:07,800
We're going to close out this 
year with a recap of what should

138
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:12,300
2020 to be remembered for from 
an identity perspective and then

139
00:07:12,500 --> 00:07:14,400
get into some predictions for 
the future. 

140
00:07:14,700 --> 00:07:17,200
We've brought back our friend 
Jared Brennan, he's a principal 

141
00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,600
consultant and VC so virtual 
see. 

142
00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,700
So with side Channel back on to 
the show. 

143
00:07:21,700 --> 00:07:24,000
Welcome Back Jarrod. 
Thanks. 

144
00:07:24,100 --> 00:07:26,300
Jeff thanks Jim's going to be 
talking to you guys again. 

145
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,000
Yeah it's been a while. 
This is going to be episode like

146
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:35,400
192 or 93 probably 193 and the 
last time you were with us was 

147
00:07:35,500 --> 00:07:39,000
episode 60 back in September of 
2020. 

148
00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,100
So we already know your eye 
agent. 

149
00:07:41,100 --> 00:07:42,800
Origin story from an identity 
perspective. 

150
00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,000
If you don't know it, go back 
and listen episode 60. 

151
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,600
We're not going to make you 
rehash. 

152
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,400
It all over again, but what's 
been going on going on the last 

153
00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,900
couple years you know with 
yourself and then some things 

154
00:07:51,900 --> 00:07:54,000
that might have been working on.
Yeah, yeah. 

155
00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,600
Back in 2020. 
I would have still been with 

156
00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,100
sale point. 
I was in an advisory role, 

157
00:08:01,100 --> 00:08:05,300
they're having conversations 
like this, but I had an 

158
00:08:05,300 --> 00:08:11,800
opportunity to move into the 
startup world and help focus on 

159
00:08:12,700 --> 00:08:16,400
both working with a start-up. 
And then also helping startups, 

160
00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:20,300
build Security, Programs that 
align with how quickly they're 

161
00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:23,700
moving that align with the risk.
Appetite of leadership. 

162
00:08:23,700 --> 00:08:27,300
Very Very different from what 
you see in the large, make a 

163
00:08:27,300 --> 00:08:30,400
corporate or prize, but all the 
principles are still the same. 

164
00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,799
The foundations are the same. 
It's just finding that right 

165
00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:36,799
balance. 
So, I've also spent a little bit

166
00:08:36,799 --> 00:08:39,400
of time playing around with web 
three. 

167
00:08:40,299 --> 00:08:43,799
I do have some cryptocurrency. 
I'm still holding my Dogecoin, 

168
00:08:43,799 --> 00:08:47,000
hoping it'll pop back UPS, 
whatever's left, right? 

169
00:08:47,300 --> 00:08:50,000
Yeah. 
Whatever is left, but I've 

170
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,000
really landed on on blockchain. 
Is it? 

171
00:08:54,100 --> 00:08:58,600
Technology with tremendous 
untapped potential. 

172
00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:02,500
And so I want to learn, I want 
to do this handle and I want to 

173
00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:05,600
build my own daps. 
I want to work with other folks 

174
00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,900
who were playing around in that 
space because that it's 

175
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,300
absolutely fascinating to me and
I'm teaching like a madman. 

176
00:09:14,100 --> 00:09:16,900
I've been working with LinkedIn 
learning for a few years now. 

177
00:09:16,900 --> 00:09:22,700
And I think I've got Almost 30 
courses and the library some 

178
00:09:22,700 --> 00:09:27,200
courses on app SEC courses on, 
I've got a building 

179
00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:29,900
cybersecurity for startups 
course out there. 

180
00:09:29,900 --> 00:09:32,800
I've got a course in ethics that
they actually published a 

181
00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:37,300
Spotify, so I can go to Spotify 
and see my picture blows my 

182
00:09:37,300 --> 00:09:41,800
mind, but I'm really digging 
that and then the, the work I'm 

183
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:46,100
doing now, with side Channel, 
I'm as you mentioned, I'm a VC. 

184
00:09:46,100 --> 00:09:50,900
So for multiple startups, So I 
have some companies that just 

185
00:09:50,900 --> 00:09:54,700
want a few hours of security 
leadership a week and then 

186
00:09:54,700 --> 00:09:58,800
they've got resources internally
to help keep the the program 

187
00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:00,500
growing. 
And I've got other companies 

188
00:10:00,500 --> 00:10:05,400
that have no formal security 
program and they reach out and 

189
00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,400
say, hey, where do we start? 
How to, how do we actually 

190
00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,000
execute, how do we get to a 
point that we can meet contract 

191
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,900
obligations and, you know, 
protect our IP and it's I don't 

192
00:10:16,900 --> 00:10:20,000
know, it's it's more my vibe. 
More my style. 

193
00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,500
That's startup space is it's a 
lot of fun. 

194
00:10:23,900 --> 00:10:27,800
I mean it's stressful but it's 
the kind of stress I want. 

195
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,800
It's it's pretty swell and 
you've put out a lot of content 

196
00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:33,100
as well. 
Like you mentioned that all the 

197
00:10:33,100 --> 00:10:34,900
LinkedIn learning. 
I'll put a link to that in the 

198
00:10:34,900 --> 00:10:36,800
show notes so people can check 
that out. 

199
00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,800
It is cool to see people 
contributing sort of, to the 

200
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:46,000
knowledge of the universe. 
When it comes to stuff, an easy 

201
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,900
to understand and easy, to kind 
of grok to Use an older term, 

202
00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:51,700
right? 
Nut and pull into it. 

203
00:10:51,700 --> 00:10:54,200
So I think it's pretty cool. 
I'm glad you touched on the DC 

204
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,500
so thing because you know, I 
think sometimes it's a little 

205
00:10:57,500 --> 00:10:59,300
bit of a mystery. 
Like what does a virtual see? 

206
00:10:59,300 --> 00:11:03,000
So do are you a hologram right? 
Do you just appear out of the 

207
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,100
blue? 
Like how does this work? 

208
00:11:04,100 --> 00:11:05,800
Do you like? 
Yeah, I know for company. 

209
00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:12,100
I dig that as a Halo fan letter 
of reference now it's funny. 

210
00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:16,500
I personally prefer the term 
fractional because the the 

211
00:11:16,500 --> 00:11:19,700
reason startups and it's usually
Startups, who make the 

212
00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:22,200
investment. 
They just don't have the 

213
00:11:23,100 --> 00:11:28,600
capital, the money set aside to 
invest in a full-time security 

214
00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,800
leader, but they also don't 
necessarily need somebody for 40

215
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,500
50 hours a week. 
They may just need somebody 

216
00:11:35,500 --> 00:11:39,400
who's more advisory or somebody 
who can step in and manage 

217
00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,400
vendors or help them select the 
right technology or make a 

218
00:11:42,408 --> 00:11:46,600
decision about what the the 
process should look like to 

219
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:52,300
again, strike that balance. 
So It's in some companies. 

220
00:11:52,300 --> 00:11:56,400
It's still kind of army of one 
where you know you're rolling up

221
00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,300
your sleeve and you're running 
burps cans and you're going 

222
00:12:00,300 --> 00:12:02,700
through boner ability, scan 
reports and you're building out 

223
00:12:02,700 --> 00:12:05,700
security awareness training at 
other companies. 

224
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,000
You know, I have one where I'm 
in more of a mentorship role 

225
00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:14,600
where they have a security 
leader at the company and it's 

226
00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,400
that person's First Security 
leadership role. 

227
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,300
And if Having conversations with
the executive leadership team 

228
00:12:21,300 --> 00:12:25,000
and conversations with the board
about the alignment between 

229
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,300
security and business and really
being able to demonstrate the 

230
00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:33,200
business value of a security 
program instead of security 

231
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:37,400
existing for its own sake. 
I'm bringing all that experience

232
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,800
back and mentoring that 
individual so that they can step

233
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,500
into the role. 
Because at VC, so gig isn't 

234
00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:46,400
meant to be permanent. 
It's meant to go in, help them 

235
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,000
get their feet under them and 
then when they're ready to To 

236
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:50,500
leave the nest and fly on their 
own. 

237
00:12:50,500 --> 00:12:52,800
You step away. 
And you go up another client. 

238
00:12:53,500 --> 00:12:57,600
Yeah, it's it's fascinating. 
It's a world that I didn't 

239
00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,700
realize how much I'd dig it 
until I was right in the middle 

240
00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:03,100
of it. 
Yeah, and it's a cool gig for 

241
00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:04,700
sure. 
And I think there's so many ways

242
00:13:04,700 --> 00:13:10,400
that, you know, that type of 
talent can be tapped and enjoyed

243
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,300
and learn from right. 
You can be more public facing 

244
00:13:13,300 --> 00:13:16,500
right in that type of role, you 
can also be more behind the 

245
00:13:16,500 --> 00:13:18,600
scenes, right? 
The guy behind the guy and 

246
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,100
really kind of setting, you 
know, someone up to be 

247
00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:22,800
successful within their 
organization. 

248
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,900
So it's an interesting role. 
I certainly I certainly dig it 

249
00:13:25,900 --> 00:13:29,200
because you know I actually had 
a conversation today with a 

250
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,300
company where, you know, there's
For any person was an architect 

251
00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:34,600
that was that was just what they
had, right? 

252
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,100
It wasn't like a formal position
anything like that and 

253
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,200
eventually you know, this person
took on more and more security, 

254
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,900
you know, responsibilities but 
was never really formally 

255
00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:46,400
trained or brought up in that 
sort of environment. 

256
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,500
So they had to get, you know, a 
bit of a crash course. 

257
00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:50,600
And I think this is a way to 
kind of accelerate that side 

258
00:13:50,700 --> 00:13:54,600
that side of learning. 
Yeah, one of the courses I've 

259
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,300
got on LinkedIn learning, and 
it's quickly becoming my most 

260
00:13:58,300 --> 00:14:02,300
popular course is soft. 
Skills for Information Security 

261
00:14:02,300 --> 00:14:05,200
Professionals. 
Because so many of us have grown

262
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,800
up Tech, I'm a nerd through and 
through guys, you know, that but

263
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,700
the ability to talk to a 
non-technical audience and the 

264
00:14:13,708 --> 00:14:18,500
ability to step away from the 
details and communicate what we 

265
00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:22,700
do in a way that makes sense to 
them and helps get them on board

266
00:14:22,700 --> 00:14:25,400
and you know, gets everybody 
moving in the same direction. 

267
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,700
It's a whole skill set that. 
Unfortunately, we don't get that

268
00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:32,900
exposure to When we're sitting 
down review on logs and 

269
00:14:32,900 --> 00:14:37,900
configuring tools, we just don't
and so you're right. 

270
00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:41,900
You've that architect. 
I've worked with those folks. 

271
00:14:41,900 --> 00:14:47,000
I've been that guy and the 
ability to talk to somebody 

272
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,400
about. 
What's it like to to sell an 

273
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,700
idea to an executive who doesn't
understand any of the acronyms 

274
00:14:53,700 --> 00:14:57,200
were using? 
It's a whole different skill set

275
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,400
but again, it's exciting. 
It's like you said, contributing

276
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,400
to knowledge. 
Helping people grow helping 

277
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,200
people advance in their own 
careers. 

278
00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:06,900
That's the kind of stuff when I 
get to the end of my life, I'll 

279
00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:08,200
look back and say yeah, that was
time. 

280
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,900
Well spent Yeah. 
And the soft skills are 

281
00:15:11,900 --> 00:15:14,200
important. 
Jim knows which I preach like 

282
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,400
being, you know, just to buy it,
you know, the internal teams and

283
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,200
stuff like that about. 
You've got to be able to 

284
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,900
articulate what it is that 
you're doing and why you're 

285
00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:23,200
doing it. 
Yeah, they're certainly a 

286
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:24,800
natural gift to it. 
You know. 

287
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,500
Some people are more comfortable
in a public speaking environment

288
00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:30,300
of presenting order maybe but it
is absolutely critical for the 

289
00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:33,000
folks out there if you're if 
you're, you know, just getting 

290
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,900
into this career I would 
definitely invest the time and 

291
00:15:35,900 --> 00:15:39,500
being able to figure out what is
your voice when it comes to 

292
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,100
Articulating your message. 
How would you deliver it? 

293
00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:45,000
How do you present it? 
How do you make it easily 

294
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,000
understood? 
Because if you can't explain it,

295
00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:49,000
you're not going to get the 
approval to move forward. 

296
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,400
You're not going to get the 
funding nothing's going to 

297
00:15:50,408 --> 00:15:51,600
happen. 
I know. 

298
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,700
Jim you and I have had 
conversations about the paths of

299
00:15:53,708 --> 00:15:56,300
like that so I don't know if 
there's any words of wisdom. 

300
00:15:56,300 --> 00:15:58,400
You want to get the people out 
there when it comes to the 

301
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,100
articulation of of their issues 
and what they're trying to 

302
00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:04,000
solve. 
I mean there are a lot of 

303
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:09,500
communication skills that I 
think make you a better. 

304
00:16:09,700 --> 00:16:15,300
Communicator. 
But I think the key is you said 

305
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,100
like there's natural skills, 
maybe and I do agree with that. 

306
00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:21,200
Some people are more Matt, 
naturally, talented with 

307
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,700
communicating, but I think it's 
one of those things. 

308
00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:27,800
Even if you are naturally, 
talented work at it, get 

309
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,000
opportunities to speak and tell 
your story. 

310
00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:34,000
They're not naturally occurring.
Look for a group that you can 

311
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,500
join, where you can practice 
articulating, your points and 

312
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,300
and writing Things like that. 
As I do think there are natural 

313
00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:45,400
to some people, but unless 
you're using those skills are 

314
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,700
going to soften. 
Yeah, if you'd told my high 

315
00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:53,200
school self that I would be you 
know hosting a podcast later on 

316
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,800
and be comfortable speaking in 
front of an audience or you know

317
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,500
microphone or on camera, I would
have been like you are 

318
00:16:58,500 --> 00:17:00,600
absolutely nuts like you are 
crazy, there's no way that's 

319
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,300
happening. 
But yeah, it's an important 

320
00:17:03,300 --> 00:17:06,099
skill and I'm glad that it's 
getting some air time and 

321
00:17:06,099 --> 00:17:06,900
charity. 
Bring it up. 

322
00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:08,900
I think is it's really important
for people to kind of think 

323
00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:12,200
about Alright, let's talk a 
little bit about identity and 

324
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:16,500
access management, and when it 
comes to the year 2022, what 

325
00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:19,400
it's going to be remembered for.
There's a lot of things. 

326
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,000
I'm sure that we could probably 
pick from. 

327
00:17:21,099 --> 00:17:22,900
And the way they were going to 
kind of do this is just kind of 

328
00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:25,599
go person by person and kind of 
just discuss what that might 

329
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:28,400
look like Jared. 
Being the guest of honor. 

330
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,600
Today, we're going to start with
you. 

331
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,800
What is, what is the I am thing 
that 2022 is going to be 

332
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:42,400
remembered for I know we don't 
have a solution yet but I firmly

333
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,100
believe we're going to look at 
what's happening in. 

334
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,500
You know, pick your buzzword 
right. 

335
00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:50,200
Web 3, blockchain Dow, whatever 
you want. 

336
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,900
To use this notion of 
decentralizing Technology. 

337
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,600
We had everything one Prem in 
the data center and then we took

338
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,100
everything and started building 
it out in somebody else's Data 

339
00:18:02,100 --> 00:18:04,000
Center. 
And now we're saying we'll wait 

340
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,100
a minute, do we need to keep all
that identity? 

341
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:11,300
Stuff in there, or can we make 
it the consumers responsibility?

342
00:18:11,300 --> 00:18:15,100
The end-users responsibility to 
own and manage their own 

343
00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:18,600
identity? 
Where what we saw with bring 

344
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,200
your own device, when the iPhone
dropped and people started 

345
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,700
bringing him into work. 
This notion of bring your own 

346
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:27,600
identity of self, Sovereign, 
identity. 

347
00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:31,600
We've been talking about it for 
some time, but I think there 

348
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,600
were some pretty big things that
happened in the blockchain 

349
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,800
space. 
This year that are well, and the

350
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:41,400
tech space in general that are 
are going to be seen as Catalyst

351
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:46,400
for an actual working. 
Very widely adopted 

352
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,700
decentralized identity solution.
They one of those is the, the 

353
00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:55,500
FTX Fallout is the disaster. 
That is the crash of that 

354
00:18:55,500 --> 00:19:00,700
exchange and when you you look 
at the nft Rose, you look at 

355
00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:02,800
board. 
A yacht club and you look at 

356
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:07,000
everybody thinking well 
blockchain is just Owning a 

357
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,400
picture and that's what most 
people outside of the space. 

358
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,700
Think the technology can do, you
know? 

359
00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:18,500
It led is crazy. 
It is to a lot of money floating

360
00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:20,700
around. 
I've seen news coming out of 

361
00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:24,200
Miami who is trying to be the 
crypto capital of the world 

362
00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:28,300
where they were seeing millions 
of dollars a year on their 

363
00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:31,500
nightclub scene. 
And now they're lucky to see 10K

364
00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:35,800
over three months and, you know 
as as all of this is bottomed 

365
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,800
out and People have said, well, 
wait a minute, maybe NF teas are

366
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,400
the thing. 
I think it's giving us an 

367
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,200
opportunity to look at the true 
capability of blockchain of the 

368
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,500
compute capability of the code 
that you can build into the 

369
00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:52,300
chain. 
Not, it's not just a distributed

370
00:19:52,300 --> 00:19:57,900
Ledger, you can build this, this
Automation and you you have the 

371
00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:04,000
ability to move away from what 
we hold onto in cyber security 

372
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:09,300
and identity as as Potentiality 
is one of the three legs of the 

373
00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:12,200
stool, right? 
It's part of the CIA Triad or 

374
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,200
the AIC depending on on, where 
you cut your teeth. 

375
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:22,300
And so, I think with the 
collapse of ft x and what we're 

376
00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:25,200
seeing right now with crypto 
prices dropping down. 

377
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:31,700
If you also pair that with the 
tech layoffs, which it's been 

378
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,600
devastating for a lot of 
individuals, but we're seeing on

379
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,300
average. 
And 10% of the workforce when a 

380
00:20:38,308 --> 00:20:40,600
company says, hey we're in the 
tech space. 

381
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,700
We overcommitted we didn't count
on the pandemic. 

382
00:20:42,900 --> 00:20:46,500
There was some other factor and 
now we can't sustain our 

383
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:50,500
business unless we reduce our 
Workforce which is they're 

384
00:20:50,500 --> 00:20:53,900
polite, way of saying, put 
people out on the street but 

385
00:20:53,900 --> 00:20:56,800
they like if I look at meta, 
they'll say well, but we're 

386
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,800
going to give Severance so that 
they've got a few months to get 

387
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,900
their feet under them. 
You've also got a lot of wicked 

388
00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:11,100
smart people who Are going 
through a very adverse time in 

389
00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:14,400
their lives right now who are 
going to be left with a sour 

390
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,700
taste in their mouth. 
When it comes to counting on big

391
00:21:17,700 --> 00:21:23,300
megacorp or big company to 
provide my, my bread and butter,

392
00:21:23,300 --> 00:21:27,700
my monthly bi-weekly income. 
And I think a lot of these, 

393
00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:30,200
these folks are going to say, 
you know what, if I've got 

394
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:31,600
severed. 
So, I've got a few months to 

395
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,700
play around. 
If they've wanted to explore 

396
00:21:34,700 --> 00:21:40,000
projects in, There in that 
block, 3 web shape web 3 Block 

397
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:45,100
Chain space. 
Then there's a combination of 

398
00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:47,000
events here that they're coming 
together, right? 

399
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,800
Convergence that. 
I think it's going to lead to 

400
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,700
some really really cool stuff in
the decentralized identity 

401
00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:58,700
space. you know, it's 
interesting that you mention 

402
00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:02,300
that as sort of like, the thing 
to be remembered for, I'm 

403
00:22:02,300 --> 00:22:07,000
thinking about Twitter and the 
dumpster fire that has become in

404
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,500
the last month and the Exodus. 
That's taking place to things 

405
00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:13,100
like mastodons. 
For example, right, right. 

406
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,300
Here's the challenge. 
I have with this. 

407
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,700
It is, it is not easy. 
I went to sign up for Macedon 

408
00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:22,200
account and I was, I okay, what 
server do I join? 

409
00:22:22,300 --> 00:22:25,900
How do I find my identity 
people, right? 

410
00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:28,100
That's pretty much what I use 
Twitter for, is for David to the

411
00:22:28,108 --> 00:22:30,400
podcast and connecting with 
identity when we are pretty, you

412
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,000
know, a decent following. 
Their, I've noticed, not as 

413
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,900
People posting on Twitter. 
So I'm like okay well where are 

414
00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:39,700
we at next, right. 
Macedon is you know do I need to

415
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:43,900
go and find what server people 
are connected to because even 

416
00:22:43,900 --> 00:22:46,100
though there's this whole 
concept of federation and its 

417
00:22:46,100 --> 00:22:48,200
really doesn't it the other day 
probably doesn't matter. 

418
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,200
So much what server you're on. 
I still think it's important 

419
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:52,800
because it becomes part of the 
address, right? 

420
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,800
I don't want to sign on for 
like, you know, at I don't know.

421
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,100
I'll pick on Hotmail Hotmail 
die, what's wrong? 

422
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,500
Yeah. 
To show my age right here on 

423
00:23:02,500 --> 00:23:03,600
that. 
I would probably want to have 

424
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,900
the Art of a full cool server or
something is more reflective of 

425
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,800
the Persona that I'm trying to 
create and I just don't think, I

426
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,700
don't think we're there yet. 
It's not easy enough for the 

427
00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:16,700
average consumer to take 
advantage of these types of 

428
00:23:16,708 --> 00:23:18,800
services. 
You have to be almost like an 

429
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,900
expert to be able to consume 
some of the stuff agree. 

430
00:23:21,900 --> 00:23:26,900
Absolutely it and it's very much
tip of the spear but that's what

431
00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:29,600
you know when I say what's the 
the Catalyst, right? 

432
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:34,400
When we get five, ten years down
the line and we look at We 

433
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,200
engage with one another online 
with how we establish trust with

434
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,600
people. 
It with how we enable people in 

435
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,600
third world countries or 
countries with a very low 

436
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,200
standard of living to engage in 
digital economies and 

437
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,100
participate as digital Citizens,
We're going to be using 

438
00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:55,200
decentralized technology that 
leverages blockchain to do that.

439
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:57,600
And we're going to look at some 
of the things happening right 

440
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,000
now, the people who are looking 
at all the Mastodon servers, 

441
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,900
scratching their head thinking, 
I know, I'm just going to roll 

442
00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:05,500
the Dyson. 
Pick one right? 

443
00:24:05,500 --> 00:24:08,100
Those are the people who are at 
the Vanguard who are going to 

444
00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:12,600
lead the way into this this new 
way of doing identity. 

445
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,200
So that's that's what I look at 
this year. 

446
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,500
I am right there with you. 
I think you know there's a lot 

447
00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:22,900
of uncertainty right now but I 
also think if you talk to folks 

448
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:27,900
who work in app Deb and you look
at this this approach to devops 

449
00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:31,700
that was verboten. 
When we look at traditional 

450
00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:35,200
waterfall methodology, you mean 
you're just going to Automate, 

451
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,900
all the right published test and
nobody's going to sit down and 

452
00:24:37,900 --> 00:24:40,800
review it. 
And now it's standard, right? 

453
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,600
If you're not moving that 
quickly, you're not keeping up 

454
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,800
and you're not competing and 
that's when it was new, it was 

455
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:47,700
scary. 
It was different. 

456
00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:49,200
People didn't know how to manage
it. 

457
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,500
When you were trying to secure 
it. 

458
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:54,500
You were at a loss of how you're
going to be able to demonstrate 

459
00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:57,800
compliance and security, when 
the codes already published a 

460
00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,900
prod before you even do, they 
were writing it. 

461
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,500
But now it's already become 
commonplace and I think we're 

462
00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:07,000
going to see that same pattern 
but I'm right there with you. 

463
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,000
Jeff. 
Yeah, we're very early in that 

464
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:10,800
Jim. 
What do you think about 

465
00:25:10,900 --> 00:25:15,000
blockchain and sort of its role 
and where it stands today 

466
00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:17,100
especially? 
I guess in relation identity is 

467
00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:19,500
probably want to take it. 
But that's where you want to 

468
00:25:19,500 --> 00:25:21,100
take it. 
But I actually have a favorite 

469
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,100
comments, where ya know systems 
yard because I was thinking, you

470
00:25:25,100 --> 00:25:30,900
know, we had that event back in 
like 06 or 08 time frame where 

471
00:25:30,900 --> 00:25:35,200
the housing market collapsed and
those of us Owned houses at that

472
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,500
time or maybe were laid off or 
suffered, some other kind of 

473
00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:43,300
financial catastrophe will never
forget that. 

474
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,400
But it's listen to a podcast 
about a year ago and it just 

475
00:25:46,500 --> 00:25:51,200
burned into my brain because the
guy was saying, you know, if you

476
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,800
have cash, you're stupid, you're
stupid, you need to deploy that 

477
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,400
cash because cash is becoming 
less valuable. 

478
00:25:58,700 --> 00:26:03,500
And you know everything else is 
going up in price and okay. 

479
00:26:04,100 --> 00:26:06,000
Typically, that's right. 
But are you going to be the one 

480
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,700
smart enough to jump off the 
Merry-Go-Round before? 

481
00:26:08,700 --> 00:26:10,700
Start spinning? 
A thousand miles an hour? 

482
00:26:10,700 --> 00:26:16,700
Another words, because if you 
were in 06, 07 and had no cash 

483
00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:18,500
and all you had were these 
assets. 

484
00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:22,000
They collapsed overnight 
basically and you couldn't get 

485
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,200
out of them. 
So always have cash, that's what

486
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,700
I learned through that event. 
And I think what you're saying 

487
00:26:28,700 --> 00:26:33,200
is that this event that's 
happening now is going to burn 

488
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,600
something. 
To the psyches of those people 

489
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,100
we just don't know what to do 
shot. 

490
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,300
Yeah that's a good way to look 
at it. 

491
00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:46,600
Jim they yeah yeah so my second 
point was on big or I'm sorry on

492
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,400
the blockchain and I was going 
to go specifically to crypto 

493
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:56,100
currency and I think the way 
it's structured right now it's 

494
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,900
like the wild west I mean 
Bitcoin went from what sixty 

495
00:26:59,900 --> 00:27:03,400
thousand dollars to fifteen 
thousand dollars in the course 

496
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,700
of a year. 
Or and that is not a good 

497
00:27:05,700 --> 00:27:11,700
formula for our currency, maybe 
for a gamble or for a bet, but 

498
00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:16,200
the way it kind of like blew up 
from nothing to this huge amount

499
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:21,300
per coin and back down again. 
It's just you it's not a good 

500
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:24,300
store of value. 
In that case, it's an investment

501
00:27:24,300 --> 00:27:28,400
maybe but I think for it to 
become a store value needs more 

502
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,200
stability. 
So you hear things about maybe 

503
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,300
the government getting control 
of it, I'm not Sure. 

504
00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:38,900
I'm like 100% on board with that
because they do think that one 

505
00:27:38,900 --> 00:27:43,300
of the advantages is that is not
run by one government. 

506
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,500
However, I think for it to have 
a future as a currency it's got 

507
00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:52,600
to be more stable and I think 
that's probably the path to get 

508
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,200
there. 
So the last thing in terms of 

509
00:27:56,300 --> 00:28:00,600
the technology rate for identity
and wallets and decentralized 

510
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,200
identity, I mean, I'm on board 
with it. 

511
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,200
I think it's a great good idea. 
I think people should be in 

512
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:11,100
control of their identity and 
shouldn't have to sign up for 

513
00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:15,700
some third party, with their own
privacy policy to, you know, 

514
00:28:15,700 --> 00:28:18,700
manage your identity and 
basically spy on you everywhere 

515
00:28:18,700 --> 00:28:23,200
you go. 
So that yeah that's my feeling I

516
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,100
think that's the part that I 
struggle with though is that is 

517
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:30,000
so we can say, Okay itself 
sovereignty but who's running 

518
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,200
that Network, you're still 
behold into whoever that Network

519
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,800
holder is is Going to be the 
government, a private entity, 

520
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:41,400
some sort of public concern that
Jeff please do because I, I want

521
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,500
an answer. 
The, the core cutter one of the 

522
00:28:44,508 --> 00:28:49,600
Core Concepts in the blockchain 
space is the concept of a dow 

523
00:28:49,900 --> 00:28:54,500
that decentralized autonomous 
organization which isn't a 

524
00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:59,600
network run by somebody. 
It's a different way of thinking

525
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,200
and it's it's hard to wrap your 
head around it. 

526
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,000
When you sit down and say, How 
is this going to work? 

527
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,100
If nobody's in charge? 
This is destined to fail. 

528
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:12,300
This is not going to function 
and then you see these these 

529
00:29:12,300 --> 00:29:16,100
projects, these experiments 
working and functioning. 

530
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:21,000
And they I know I've I've got 
opinions guys, that go Way 

531
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,200
Beyond Tech. 
I've got social theory, economic

532
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,200
theory in and I tie it all 
together when I look at things 

533
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,600
like this. 
And I'm also a parent of three 

534
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:35,100
adult, children, 18, 20 and 22, 
and I have In the the 

535
00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:39,300
generational differences in 
what's important to one 

536
00:29:39,300 --> 00:29:43,100
generation versus the next and 
how they they approach 

537
00:29:43,100 --> 00:29:46,000
problem-solving. 
Now, I've got, you know books. 

538
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,600
I could talk about that. 
I've read on the subject that 

539
00:29:49,700 --> 00:29:52,900
really helped me better 
articulate, the ideas of the 

540
00:29:52,900 --> 00:29:54,800
things that we're seeing in the 
things I wanted to understand 

541
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,800
more and that notion of a 
decentralized autonomous 

542
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,100
organization of taking the 
responsibility of proving that 

543
00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:06,400
you're Jeff and Moving that your
gym, improving that the 

544
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,900
transactions that are being 
executed in your name are 

545
00:30:09,900 --> 00:30:15,100
authorized by you the right 
person with a distributed Ledger

546
00:30:15,100 --> 00:30:17,100
technology, we've got kind of 
this. 

547
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,200
I don't want to call it 
groupthink, right? 

548
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,400
I'm not orwellian right but but 
it does change the model 

549
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,000
significantly. 
And if, if we start doing it, I 

550
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:34,800
mean, I want to point out Jim 
that we accept Little green 

551
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:41,300
pieces of paper here in the US 
as legal tender, as currency as 

552
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,900
I'm going to give you this piece
of paper for that food, or for 

553
00:30:44,900 --> 00:30:48,800
this house, or for this vehicle 
and you'll accept it. 

554
00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:52,800
There was a time where that that
just wasn't the way we did 

555
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,700
things and we introduced the 
concept of currency. 

556
00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:59,400
We've got central banks and in 
the system that we have now came

557
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,500
out of changes in how we 
interact with one another. 

558
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,700
We're at the cusp of one of 
those changes based on the 

559
00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:10,600
advances in technology, and what
we can do now with technology 

560
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,400
that wasn't even conceivable 
hundreds of years ago, do I? 

561
00:31:15,408 --> 00:31:19,700
Yeah, I don't want to ramble too
much guys, but this this notion 

562
00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:24,300
of decentralized, autonomous 
organizations can solve that 

563
00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:28,600
problem Jeff, but it's not going
to be easy and it's not always 

564
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,100
going to be pretty, but I think 
we'll get there. 

565
00:31:31,300 --> 00:31:32,500
I'm going to keep an eye out for
it. 

566
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:33,600
I think. 
I think that's one of the 

567
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,000
biggest Ask questions that me as
I couldn't Sumer. 

568
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,300
And as someone sort of in the 
know, right? 

569
00:31:38,300 --> 00:31:42,200
In the identity side of how this
should work, is whose where is 

570
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,800
my day going to be and what? 
Who's going to have access to 

571
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:45,700
it. 
Yeah. 

572
00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:47,300
And I think just kind of 
understand it's almost like I'm 

573
00:31:47,308 --> 00:31:48,500
gonna go back to my ass down, 
right? 

574
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,800
Did I pick the right server to 
join or not? 

575
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,300
I don't know. 
Alright, let's move along here 

576
00:31:53,300 --> 00:31:55,300
Jim. 
How about yourself, what is an 

577
00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:58,800
IM thing that 2022 is going to 
be remembered for? 

578
00:31:59,100 --> 00:32:01,000
So I put this question out on 
LinkedIn. 

579
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,300
I guess some great feedback from
some of our Think listeners of 

580
00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:07,400
the podcast. 
So Chris and been. 

581
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,600
Kitaj basically said, one was 
incur careening. 

582
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,700
So three people basically said 
meeting you and I and getting 

583
00:32:16,700 --> 00:32:20,700
back to in person which I 
thought those are all really 

584
00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:22,300
love the first question, first 
answer. 

585
00:32:22,300 --> 00:32:25,200
But, you know, getting back to 
in person, you know, especially 

586
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:31,000
like conferences and things like
that Jake, and for identity our 

587
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,800
buddy fried enmity, say Said, 
Jake said, the increase in 

588
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:40,500
credential related, breaches 
fries said, so many breaches of 

589
00:32:41,100 --> 00:32:44,100
Australian citizens data and 
then he put a sad face. 

590
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:51,200
So what I was going to say is 
kind of the opposite of those in

591
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,100
a way because I was going to say
what happened to all the 

592
00:32:55,100 --> 00:33:00,400
ransomware attacks, it seemed 
like 2020 2021, we're just like 

593
00:33:00,900 --> 00:33:03,300
one head. 
Like every week, we'd have a 

594
00:33:03,308 --> 00:33:05,900
headline. 
Talk about the 10 million 

595
00:33:05,900 --> 00:33:09,600
dollars in Bitcoin somebody paid
out because their company got 

596
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,800
ransomware and I know they're 
still happening, but they're not

597
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,400
as front pages they were. 
I think that I feel pretty safe 

598
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,200
making that argument because I 
follow information security 

599
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,100
news. 
And yeah I see them but it's 

600
00:33:22,100 --> 00:33:26,700
usually like oh this this 
Hospital chain near, you know 

601
00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:30,800
Akron, Ohio got rent, somewhere 
it and not the maid lied to 

602
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,400
that. 
That's important. 

603
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,600
But it's not like You know, they
do Dr. Ransomware, something 

604
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,800
like that, right? 
Or some company paid out 40 

605
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,900
million dollars in Bitcoin 
because they got ransomware 

606
00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:46,200
which we did see happen, I think
in 2021. 

607
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,700
So, anyway, that was my answer. 
How about you doing? 

608
00:33:51,100 --> 00:33:53,200
You know, it's interesting that 
you bring a transfer because 

609
00:33:53,300 --> 00:33:55,600
when I was thinking about this 
question, I was like, well, 

610
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,000
ransomware is still a thing. 
It's still happening. 

611
00:33:58,500 --> 00:34:00,300
And then I got to thinking about
all bit more is okay. 

612
00:34:00,300 --> 00:34:03,700
Well why why aren't we talking 
about it as much? 

613
00:34:03,900 --> 00:34:06,100
And as why is it not making as 
much news, and I think it's 

614
00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:09,400
because we've got numb to it. 
It happens with so much 

615
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,199
frequency now that it's just 
like any other, you know, 

616
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:15,400
identity data breach. 
Okay, who got breached this week

617
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,100
or today? 
Or thank you very much Capital 

618
00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:22,199
One for telling me that my email
again was found on the darknet. 

619
00:34:22,300 --> 00:34:26,500
Of course, it was, as you know, 
I mean, it was like just so much

620
00:34:26,500 --> 00:34:28,800
going on, it's like, okay, we've
gotten used to it. 

621
00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:30,900
So I don't know if I don't think
that. 

622
00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:34,000
I don't think the numbers bear 
out that there are Less 

623
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,800
ransomware attacks. 
I think if anything it's the 

624
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,100
same and continues to grow, what
I think is the air time, that's 

625
00:34:40,100 --> 00:34:43,300
it's given and the numbness that
has a company with it. 

626
00:34:43,699 --> 00:34:46,699
You know, you came also 
wondering, I'm also wondering if

627
00:34:46,699 --> 00:34:49,900
companies are defending better. 
In other words they're blocking 

628
00:34:49,900 --> 00:34:54,800
them more or the attackers are 
busy doing something else or 

629
00:34:55,100 --> 00:34:56,699
directing their efforts 
somewhere else. 

630
00:34:56,699 --> 00:35:00,300
And I'm I'm specifically getting
at the war in Ukraine. 

631
00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:03,700
So we knew a lot of the attacks 
were, were em. 

632
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,100
Mating out of Ukraine or Russia 
and with everything that's going

633
00:35:08,100 --> 00:35:10,200
on there. 
With the war I'm wondering if 

634
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,500
that has any kind of influence 
and, you know, you might be 

635
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:14,900
right. 
The numbers might be out, be 

636
00:35:14,900 --> 00:35:18,100
down, but they're not, you know,
I don't think that the headline,

637
00:35:18,100 --> 00:35:21,500
the big ones. 
So I'm just wondering, well, 

638
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:23,400
what do you think there is? 
Yeah, let's have to be C. 

639
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,600
So in the room here, if you're 
advising somebody like where 

640
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,300
it's what's the stance on 
ransomware right now? 

641
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:35,100
Of all the clients I work with 
nobody's talking about it. 

642
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,900
None of the leaders at the 
organizations are reading about 

643
00:35:38,900 --> 00:35:41,300
it in the journal, right? 
Or the times. 

644
00:35:41,300 --> 00:35:44,700
That they're not saying Jared, 
are we prepared for this now? 

645
00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:48,900
I'm still driving the point home
of identity Centric. 

646
00:35:48,900 --> 00:35:54,400
Security, not only creating 
backups but testing them. 

647
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,900
Don't table. 
Tops of your BCD are played in 

648
00:35:56,900 --> 00:35:59,400
your incident response plan. 
I mean that's standard fare with

649
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,600
every Client, but it's that's a 
really good point Jim. 

650
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:11,300
It's not making the news that 
Business Leaders are reading and

651
00:36:11,300 --> 00:36:16,600
I think that you're onto 
something there with also the 

652
00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:18,900
global activity. 
None of this happens in a 

653
00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:22,000
vacuum. 
It's all connected and if we had

654
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:27,100
folks who were targeting US 
based companies, who now have 

655
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,700
bigger, priorities, Based on 
what they're in the midst of 

656
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,900
then that would definitely 
account for that drop. 

657
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,800
It could not have. 
It also could be that, you know,

658
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:45,000
maybe the West has seen you in a
better light by folks who I 

659
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,400
don't know. 
I mean I don't I'm trying to get

660
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,700
inside the head but certainly 
the US and the West has gotten 

661
00:36:50,700 --> 00:36:54,900
behind Ukraine in that 
situation. 

662
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,400
Yeah. 
Now it's really insightful 

663
00:36:58,700 --> 00:37:02,300
because it Because I don't have 
folks asking me about it, and 

664
00:37:02,300 --> 00:37:05,900
I'm not seeing those stories and
I'm like you, I've got my Feedly

665
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,800
that has all the the people I 
want to follow all the outlets I

666
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,200
follow. 
And it's crickets when it comes 

667
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,700
to ransomware and I hadn't even 
noticed. 

668
00:37:16,500 --> 00:37:18,200
Yes, it's wild. 
It is interesting. 

669
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,300
How much is faded away as I 
think is just hasn't gotten as 

670
00:37:20,300 --> 00:37:21,700
much air time. 
Is it? 

671
00:37:21,700 --> 00:37:24,400
You know, I didn't really think 
about it from the I guess the 

672
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,100
current, you know, 
russia-ukraine thing that I 

673
00:37:27,100 --> 00:37:28,900
guess, just like any other 
business there. 

674
00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:31,400
Are certain number of Horses. 
And if those resources are tied 

675
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,300
up elsewhere, you know, they've 
been shipped to a different 

676
00:37:34,300 --> 00:37:35,900
project, right? 
Exactly. 

677
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:40,400
Let's see. 
Okay for myself, I thought about

678
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,600
this a little bit and I'm going 
to go back to April when I was 

679
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:49,200
at RSA and I walked around the 
show floor and as I go k is the 

680
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:54,300
year 2020. 20, trust everything,
like everything is a zero, trust

681
00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:56,200
product. 
Everything has something to do a

682
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,600
zero trust security and you know
we've got to solve folks I have 

683
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,200
to do is buy this one thing that
will solve your zero trust, you 

684
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,100
know, issues and you'll be good 
to go and I feel like it's the 

685
00:38:08,100 --> 00:38:11,100
year that zero trust. 
Sort of jumped, the Shark People

686
00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:16,900
kind of got you know got drowned
in that marketing of what is 

687
00:38:16,900 --> 00:38:19,500
actually zero trust in the real 
world and how does it actually 

688
00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:22,400
work and all the various 
components that actually go into

689
00:38:22,700 --> 00:38:26,700
a true zero trust Network and it
got obfuscated by the identity 

690
00:38:26,700 --> 00:38:30,600
marketing machine of multiple 
companies out there trying to be

691
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,700
part of that wave. 
That's what I'm thinking is for,

692
00:38:34,700 --> 00:38:36,800
at least for me, what 2022 has 
been about it. 

693
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:42,300
Has been the absolute battering 
of the zero trust name against 

694
00:38:42,300 --> 00:38:47,000
the the altar of marketing. 
yeah, I do you think Jared I had

695
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:53,000
a chance to hear John Kinder bag
on a podcast or a webinar 

696
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:58,600
talking about how the idea that 
he presented of zero trust what 

697
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:05,200
over a decade ago is so 
misunderstood now and he if I 

698
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:10,100
recall correctly has a somewhat 
low opinion of the nist special 

699
00:39:10,100 --> 00:39:15,900
publication on zero trust and 
I've worked with t' teams and 

700
00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:17,800
companies. 
I've been in advisory roles. 

701
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,400
I've worked with sales teams and
I know what it's like quarter to

702
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,600
quarter when they're trying to 
win, logos. 

703
00:39:23,900 --> 00:39:26,600
They're trying to close deals 
time, kills deals. 

704
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,400
So what's the quickest way they 
can get there? 

705
00:39:28,900 --> 00:39:34,900
They know that this zero trust, 
buzzword clicks, it resonates 

706
00:39:34,900 --> 00:39:38,000
with business and Tech leaders 
or it did. 

707
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:43,000
And so everybody internally 
would say, okay how do we 

708
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:44,500
support zero? 
Trust. 

709
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,500
You know, the message you get 
from kinder bag, is there is no 

710
00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:51,500
zero trust technology. 
That's not the point. 

711
00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:55,200
That's not the idea but the 
marketing teams are saying if we

712
00:39:55,200 --> 00:40:00,300
can find a way to publish some 
collateral that says our product

713
00:40:00,300 --> 00:40:04,200
enables zero trust, then when 
that executive, who says we need

714
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,500
zero trust is saying, I will 
give you budget. 

715
00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:13,200
If you can deploy zero trust, 
it's getting calls with sales 

716
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:14,800
teams and then that's closing 
deals. 

717
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,900
And That's driving that sales 
marketing conversation. 

718
00:40:17,900 --> 00:40:19,500
I think you're spot on their 
jet. 

719
00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:26,200
They it's just, it's noise. 
It's a terrific terrific concept

720
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,300
and I'm right there with John 
that, you know, that that 

721
00:40:30,300 --> 00:40:33,800
approach of of locking 
everything down and then only 

722
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,200
opening up access when you need 
it is. 

723
00:40:36,700 --> 00:40:38,800
I mean, we used to call a 
principle of least privilege. 

724
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,800
We even when we deploy Del Parts
on the Mainframe back, if I say 

725
00:40:42,808 --> 00:40:44,900
back in the day, I know their 
shops are still running 

726
00:40:44,900 --> 00:40:47,800
Mainframe. 
But the notion of an Alp are was

727
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,300
to create that segregation 
there. 

728
00:40:50,300 --> 00:40:54,100
These are all ideas or concepts 
that help you get toward that, 

729
00:40:54,500 --> 00:41:00,000
that Panacea, right of zero 
trust, but, but yeah, sales and 

730
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,500
marketing is not helping the 
case. 

731
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:04,900
Jim. 
What are your thoughts on zero? 

732
00:41:04,900 --> 00:41:07,600
Trust in my diatribe? 
I think your drive tribes, 

733
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,400
right? 
I mean, I think it's like become

734
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,800
overuse and people are sick of 
it. 

735
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,700
And when people get sick of it's
like, Liberty, A mutual 

736
00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:18,400
commercials, right? 
It's like, oh no, I hate this 

737
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:24,200
already, which is quite sad, 
actually, because I think zero 

738
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,600
trust is one of the most 
important security architectural

739
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,800
principles that has come out 
like during my lifetime. 

740
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:39,200
I take it makes so much sense 
but it's the funny part was like

741
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:43,400
it's been around for a long time
and had no play and then within 

742
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,200
the last two years got Too much 
play. 

743
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,200
So point that people are sick of
hearing about it. 

744
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,100
Don't want to hear about it 
anymore. 

745
00:41:51,500 --> 00:41:57,000
And and maybe I'm being a little
bit too over-the-top here but I 

746
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,200
think that's sad. 
I think that's a net loss. 

747
00:42:00,900 --> 00:42:02,600
Well maybe it'll be like 
bell-bottoms, they'll just come 

748
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,400
around again in a few years and 
you'll be back in style. 

749
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,900
All right, let's go to 
predictions for 2023. 

750
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,800
Jared you're up first. 
What's a bold prediction that 

751
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:19,700
you've got for us in the eye? 
Iím world for 2023, I think, and

752
00:42:19,700 --> 00:42:21,700
I'm going to tie a few ideas 
here. 

753
00:42:22,100 --> 00:42:25,200
But again, this this is where I 
think we're headed, guys. 

754
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:29,900
What we're seeing happening 
right now in Quantum, Computing 

755
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:37,100
is going to have a downstream 
impact on how we do identity and

756
00:42:37,100 --> 00:42:41,500
how the way we approach that 
idea of the identity Centric 

757
00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:44,900
security is going to be built 
out, like I just read a story. 

758
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:50,700
About physicist creating a 
wormhole, an einstein-rosen 

759
00:42:50,700 --> 00:42:54,500
bridge. 
I mean this is 1935 is when 

760
00:42:54,500 --> 00:42:58,900
Einstein and Rosen pitched this 
idea of what we've come to call 

761
00:42:58,900 --> 00:43:02,600
Wormhole technology and the 
scientist physicist he did. 

762
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:07,000
It said look, it's the crummiest
tiniest Wormhole but it's a 

763
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,800
wormhole. 
We observe the qubits and we we 

764
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,000
can recreate it, right? 
It's legit. 

765
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,900
There was a book, I read. 
Ed some years back by Arthur C. 

766
00:43:17,900 --> 00:43:22,600
Clarke, right, 2001. 
And Stephen Baxter, co-authored 

767
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,100
this book called the light of 
other days. 

768
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:30,400
This book was published 
something like 20 years ago and 

769
00:43:30,900 --> 00:43:34,500
they present the idea that 
scientists create Wormhole 

770
00:43:34,500 --> 00:43:36,200
technology. 
We start leveraging it for 

771
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,000
communication and then they go 
on to talk about the 

772
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:44,900
ramifications with Society, 
economies and such but II had 

773
00:43:45,100 --> 00:43:49,800
Ready earlier this year, been 
making my rounds at Regional 

774
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,600
conferences and events. 
Talking about rethinking 

775
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,600
cybersecurity in the quantum age
because we're seeing a lot of 

776
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,300
activity with post Quantum 
cryptography and you know, just 

777
00:44:00,300 --> 00:44:03,000
like I was saying with with 
blockchain, it's a different way

778
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,500
of thinking, a different way of 
approaching the the problem and 

779
00:44:07,500 --> 00:44:12,000
then the solutions to the 
problem with the the vetting 

780
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,000
that nist has done around post 
Quantum cryptography. 

781
00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:18,500
Fe algorithms, they've been at 
it for five years and they've 

782
00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:23,000
been hammering away at these. 
It's just it's different mats 

783
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,200
like lattice bath mat. 
It's not very large prime 

784
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,800
numbers anymore. 
It's changing how we protect 

785
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,600
data at rest and how we 
protected it Transit. 

786
00:44:31,900 --> 00:44:36,800
And if we're using Quantum 
Computing for good, cyber 

787
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,800
criminals, with access to 
Quantum Computing, technology 

788
00:44:40,100 --> 00:44:43,000
are going to be throwing it at 
data that's been encrypted with 

789
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:44,700
traditional encryption 
algorithms. 

790
00:44:45,700 --> 00:44:49,200
And so as we have to figure out,
how do we protect data, how do 

791
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:53,200
we encrypt data? 
We're we're also trying to think

792
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:59,600
of what to what does that CA a 
Triad mean going forward and do 

793
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:04,400
we actually have to treat 
confidential data that we call 

794
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,500
confidential today as 
confidential in the future 

795
00:45:08,100 --> 00:45:13,800
because if I've got data that 
I'm encrypting with 1020, bit 

796
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:18,300
RSA key. 
Quantum computer with reasonable

797
00:45:18,500 --> 00:45:22,500
error-free qubits. 
That is able to turn through. 

798
00:45:22,500 --> 00:45:25,600
Very large data sets. 
Very quickly is going to crack 

799
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:31,900
that in minutes, a 2048 key. 
Which if you are listening, sisa

800
00:45:31,900 --> 00:45:36,200
has a post Quantum cryptography 
roadmap bare, minimum bump your 

801
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,600
keys up to 2048 because it buys 
you more time. 

802
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,200
It's going to take a little more
time to crack those keys, but 

803
00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:45,000
that data we're not going to be 
able. 

804
00:45:45,100 --> 00:45:48,700
Able to protect it and the way 
that we protect it today and if 

805
00:45:48,700 --> 00:45:52,000
I go back to my comments about 
blockchain, if we had a 

806
00:45:52,008 --> 00:45:57,200
technology that I could publish 
my social, my nine digit social 

807
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:02,000
security number in plain text 
and say this does not have to be

808
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,500
confidential data anymore. 
We don't have to encrypt it. 

809
00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:08,300
We don't have to protect it 
because what I'm doing through 

810
00:46:08,500 --> 00:46:11,900
decentralized, identity and 
through blockchain enabled 

811
00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:13,900
technology. 
So the automation enabled 

812
00:46:13,900 --> 00:46:18,300
through the compute Power Within
Blockchain deployment. 

813
00:46:18,700 --> 00:46:24,900
That's the right word for it. 
I can control when people use my

814
00:46:24,900 --> 00:46:28,200
social, when somebody wants to 
run credit, when somebody goes 

815
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,300
to apply for unemployment. 
When somebody goes to take out a

816
00:46:31,308 --> 00:46:37,300
loan at that moment at that 
point in time the combination of

817
00:46:37,300 --> 00:46:39,500
web three blockchain based 
technology and I think we're 

818
00:46:39,500 --> 00:46:43,000
still going to see this blend of
web to web three. 

819
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,400
Right? 
That the way we use Tech to Day 

820
00:46:45,900 --> 00:46:49,500
internet-based Technologies. 
If I can at that point in time. 

821
00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:52,700
Get a notification Jared do I 
have your permission to take 

822
00:46:52,700 --> 00:46:56,300
this action and I can provide 
that validation that yes I'm 

823
00:46:56,300 --> 00:46:58,600
Jared. 
And yes I said it's okay. 

824
00:46:59,300 --> 00:47:02,700
All these processes we have 
around freezing enough reason 

825
00:47:02,700 --> 00:47:07,000
credit at about the the car 
dealership running your credit 

826
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,400
against all three agencies. 
When you want to drive a car off

827
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:17,200
the lot, it changes. 
And so I think that The quantum 

828
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:21,200
post Quantum impact on 
encryption technology, and 

829
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,800
communication technology, 
because there's a lot of impact 

830
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,900
in the iot space is going to 
drive development for these 

831
00:47:28,900 --> 00:47:32,700
people in, this is again that 
convergence people who have this

832
00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:36,700
window of time to say, look, I'm
passionate about this, I grew up

833
00:47:36,700 --> 00:47:40,000
in a world where I don't know 
what the future is going to look

834
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,400
like, right? 
I don't have a lot of certainty 

835
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,900
of whether or not I'm going to 
be able to pay rent or whether 

836
00:47:44,900 --> 00:47:49,600
or not I'm going To have the job
that I'm in now who will sit 

837
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,400
down and start putting together 
solutions that are not 

838
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:58,200
profit-driven, they're driven by
the opportunity to better 

839
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,900
society. 
And it's it's like the 

840
00:48:00,900 --> 00:48:04,400
open-source Revolution all over 
again. 

841
00:48:04,700 --> 00:48:09,300
But but with with a with this 
blockchain Centric technology. 

842
00:48:09,300 --> 00:48:12,500
So I really think that what we 
see in Quantum is going to have 

843
00:48:12,500 --> 00:48:16,800
that impact on different. 
Ease of doing things so that we 

844
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,200
don't have to protect all the 
data that we protected. 

845
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,200
A now it's not going to address 
everything. 

846
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:26,200
If I look at military operations
and I look at encrypted data, 

847
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:31,200
that talks about informants and 
contacts that data will have 

848
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:35,700
value forever because once that 
need is decrypted, the if 

849
00:48:35,700 --> 00:48:41,200
there's a regime, if there's a 
ruling power that has a grudge 

850
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,800
and they went to take it out on 
the people who supported their 

851
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,800
adversary, then Then they'll 
wait and that. 

852
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,900
I do have a quick answer for 
that one, and that to me, is the

853
00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:53,500
bigger scarier thing because 
that's loss of life, right? 

854
00:48:53,500 --> 00:48:55,600
That's that's a whole different 
ball. 

855
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,900
Game than credit cards are 
socials, but there's a whole lot

856
00:48:59,900 --> 00:49:03,900
of data that we are just. 
We're putting a lot of time and 

857
00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:07,900
money and effort into keeping 
secret into pretending that 

858
00:49:07,900 --> 00:49:10,900
nobody else is going to see it 
until we have another data 

859
00:49:10,900 --> 00:49:13,200
breach story in. 
Oh we had the OPM hack, we have 

860
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:18,500
the solarwinds weird, Okay, so 
many Exposures where we just 

861
00:49:18,500 --> 00:49:23,500
have to solve the problem with 
different thinking and I think 

862
00:49:23,500 --> 00:49:26,200
Quantum is going to drive Block 
Chain, which is going to drive 

863
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:31,600
some of that that generational 
shift you shift, you probably 

864
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:37,100
heard that the saying, hard 
times, you know, this is sexist,

865
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,900
but I'm using like, like, quote 
from the guy who said it hard 

866
00:49:40,900 --> 00:49:45,100
times, create strong men, strong
men, create Good Times. 

867
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:48,500
Good Times. 
Create weak men and weak men. 

868
00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:51,800
Create, what is it hard to our 
times? 

869
00:49:52,300 --> 00:49:56,600
Yeah, so you've got this this 
generational cycle and a couple 

870
00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:00,800
of the books, I've read the 
fourth turning, which is how in 

871
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:05,000
Strauss they approached it. 
From a historian perspective, 

872
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:09,800
generational Theory and and 
looking at how one generation to

873
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,000
the next influences, things like
technology. 

874
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:18,000
And when I saw Ray dalio, 
Principles for dealing with a 

875
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,700
changing World Order where he 
did it from an economists 

876
00:50:21,700 --> 00:50:24,900
perspective and a Leo's 
Bridgewater, right? 

877
00:50:25,100 --> 00:50:29,600
Incredibly successful hedge 
fund, 40 years in that space and

878
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:34,000
he landed on that same pattern 
of these different generations 

879
00:50:34,300 --> 00:50:38,100
and that's the other other 
concept that that's converging 

880
00:50:38,100 --> 00:50:40,400
here. 
Is why we see advances in 

881
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,900
Quantum, we see blockchain 
technology kind of finding 

882
00:50:44,300 --> 00:50:46,900
legitimate use case. 
Has and people who understand 

883
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,600
the full potential. 
You've also got an entire 

884
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,000
generation of people who are 
looking at. 

885
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,800
Their Futures saying I would 
rather build something that's 

886
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,500
going to make life better for 
people around me, then make a 

887
00:50:59,500 --> 00:51:01,100
profit. 
I don't want to be a 

888
00:51:01,107 --> 00:51:03,400
billionaire. 
I don't even necessarily want to

889
00:51:03,408 --> 00:51:05,900
be a millionaire. 
I want enough money to take care

890
00:51:05,900 --> 00:51:08,400
of me in my own and then I want 
to put this thing out in the 

891
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,500
world that's going to make 
everybody's life better even 

892
00:51:10,500 --> 00:51:12,700
people. 
I will never meet and as all 

893
00:51:12,700 --> 00:51:15,300
these things come together, 
you're going. 

894
00:51:15,500 --> 00:51:20,700
Find identity makes that happen.
Because without that notion of 

895
00:51:20,700 --> 00:51:24,000
decentralized identity, we can't
participate in these digital 

896
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:28,800
economies, we can't participate 
in these processes and so it to 

897
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:30,800
me, it's I know that's a 
long-winded. 

898
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:35,400
I appreciate you guys got to sit
here and just some thoughts on. 

899
00:51:35,408 --> 00:51:37,600
Yeah. 
Thoughts on the as you talk 

900
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:43,000
about post Quantum and pre 
Quantum, my concern is well I 

901
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,300
guess it depends on how you 
define those but But my concern 

902
00:51:46,300 --> 00:51:50,000
is that in between it's where 
there's some Quantum and others 

903
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,700
that are non Quantum and if 
there's commercially based 

904
00:51:52,700 --> 00:51:57,500
quantum computers, but a lot of 
people, a lot of organizations 

905
00:51:57,500 --> 00:52:01,100
are still running non-count 
quantum computers and you end up

906
00:52:01,100 --> 00:52:05,900
in this in-between, right? 
You've got every phone in the 

907
00:52:05,900 --> 00:52:10,600
world is all of a sudden not 
capable of encrypting his data. 

908
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:15,000
Well enough to stop those with 
the quantum computer, here's 

909
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:16,900
where I want. 
I need to go with this because 

910
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:23,100
That. 
Potentially has major societal 

911
00:52:23,100 --> 00:52:28,600
impact in terms of it could 
erode trust in technology, very 

912
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:35,300
quickly where that's what 
currency is based on, is based 

913
00:52:35,300 --> 00:52:38,400
on trust, it's based on the that
if you give me that paper for 

914
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,200
that, for the food I gave you, I
can turn around and give that 

915
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,900
paper to somebody else and get 
something else that I need. 

916
00:52:45,300 --> 00:52:48,600
Right. 
And whether it's cryptocurrency 

917
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,800
or paper currency or Or you 
know, some numbers on the 

918
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,700
screen, there's a trust factor 
involved. 

919
00:52:54,700 --> 00:52:57,900
Now, all of a sudden, the 
computer World goes to hell in a

920
00:52:57,908 --> 00:53:01,400
handbasket. 
All the data is being broken. 

921
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:06,000
That, that's my concern is that 
in-between stage, and it feels 

922
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,000
like that's got to come, right? 
It's not like every computer at 

923
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,800
the flip of a switch has all 
going to become Quantum, and 

924
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,200
that's a really good College 
gym. 

925
00:53:16,300 --> 00:53:20,000
And one thing I'll share when I 
started digging into quantum. 

926
00:53:20,100 --> 00:53:22,200
Shooting what it means to 
actually use it. 

927
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,200
One of the things that I learned
is that while quantum computers 

928
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:30,900
are great at tackling, very 
large data sets their garbage, 

929
00:53:30,900 --> 00:53:33,100
when it comes to watching videos
on YouTube. 

930
00:53:33,500 --> 00:53:37,000
You do not want a Quantum phone 
so I don't know that we're going

931
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:40,900
to see a Tipping Point where 
where we suddenly, everything 

932
00:53:40,900 --> 00:53:45,200
has to be Quantum, but I think 
that that period of time where 

933
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:49,000
we've got traditional digital, 
you know, ones and zeros. 

934
00:53:50,100 --> 00:53:54,400
Pewters they're still used for 
them and it's not going to 

935
00:53:54,408 --> 00:53:55,900
change, it's not going to go 
away. 

936
00:53:56,300 --> 00:54:01,200
But in this this subset where 
we've got 10s and then ones and 

937
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,700
zeros at the same time, the 
whole notion of superposition of

938
00:54:03,700 --> 00:54:07,300
quantum Computing is going to 
have a very specific use case 

939
00:54:07,300 --> 00:54:10,400
and we're going to see. 
I mean threat actors will use it

940
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:15,800
to try to decrypt data but as we
have security vendors, who are 

941
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:19,300
pulling in more and more data 
for logging and monitoring to 

942
00:54:19,300 --> 00:54:22,000
try to determine What normal 
looks like and can we detect a 

943
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,500
threat actor the ability to go 
through that data and very 

944
00:54:25,500 --> 00:54:29,900
quickly make a decision. 
Yes, this this is somebody using

945
00:54:29,900 --> 00:54:32,800
Jeff's account. 
He's not in North Korea right 

946
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:37,600
now, trying to log into his 
Office 365 account the the speed

947
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,400
at which they'll be able to 
identify and respond in the 

948
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,300
accuracy with which will be able
to do that. 

949
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,700
But that's a very specific use 
case for Quantum but I really 

950
00:54:45,700 --> 00:54:48,900
think the decryption is the one 
that has everybody's attention 

951
00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:52,000
but I don't think We're going to
see it on smartphones and I 

952
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,300
thought the same thing until 
I'll see if I can find the video

953
00:54:55,300 --> 00:54:57,000
and share the link with your 
Jeff. 

954
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:03,600
You can put in the show notes of
a scientist in Finland, who 

955
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,700
knows, a hell of a lot more 
about Quantum than I ever will 

956
00:55:07,500 --> 00:55:08,900
and he laid it out pretty 
simply. 

957
00:55:08,900 --> 00:55:12,500
And I set back and said hi. 
Okay, that makes sense, I get it

958
00:55:12,500 --> 00:55:15,700
now, I hear your point. 
They just I'm sorry. 

959
00:55:15,700 --> 00:55:18,600
Jeff one last Point. 
Don't even get me started all in

960
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:22,400
artificial intelligence and 
Fakes and the fact that I can 

961
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:28,500
throw a random sentence into 
dolly or Dolly to and have it 

962
00:55:28,500 --> 00:55:33,400
generate all this AI art that 
has the art community Shook and 

963
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,700
we're going to see, you can use 
AI to do copywriting which has 

964
00:55:36,700 --> 00:55:39,200
the marketing Community 
wondering, am I going to have a 

965
00:55:39,207 --> 00:55:42,000
job? 
If they can replace me with this

966
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:47,200
this website that rates better 
copy than I do and your notion 

967
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:48,900
of? 
Yeah we need that trust. 

968
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,500
We don't even know when we're on
LinkedIn and we're looking to 

969
00:55:52,500 --> 00:55:55,700
profile pictures if that's a 
real person or not because a lot

970
00:55:55,700 --> 00:55:59,800
of the The Fakes on LinkedIn, 
Rai generated profile pics. 

971
00:56:00,300 --> 00:56:03,000
And so yeah. 
There's there's a lot a lot that

972
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:07,400
you said there about trust that 
we could go a lot deeper into 

973
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,000
that. 
I I got sad and scared when you 

974
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,800
were talking early on Jared. 
And here's why you talked about,

975
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:15,400
okay? 
I'm going to be able to control 

976
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,300
when you know where my data is 
being used and how it's going to

977
00:56:19,308 --> 00:56:21,900
be used. 
And and you get notified when 

978
00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:24,000
someone's using it for a loan 
above LA. 

979
00:56:24,300 --> 00:56:28,000
And I immediately went to we 
already have that problem today 

980
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,900
with MFA and I say fatigue 
getting spammed with text 

981
00:56:32,900 --> 00:56:36,700
messages, push notifications, 
you know whatever it may be and 

982
00:56:36,700 --> 00:56:40,000
it's a it's it's a known thing 
at this point where, you know, 

983
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:44,800
if you if you send enough, you 
know faulty, you know or bad bad

984
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:49,400
a second Factor requests, 
someone will press OK on it. 

985
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,200
And I got thinking about that 
too, is like oh no. 

986
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:54,600
Here we go again, I'm going to 
get spammed with. 

987
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:58,300
Hey your SSN was used here by 
blah blah or hey you know I do 

988
00:56:58,300 --> 00:57:00,300
you want to connect to this bank
account its going to come come 

989
00:57:00,300 --> 00:57:03,300
come come come through and there
will be a certain set of the 

990
00:57:03,300 --> 00:57:06,800
population that at some point 
just to make their to stop the 

991
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:08,300
headache will hit. 
Yeah. 

992
00:57:08,300 --> 00:57:10,600
Okay. 
It's either because they don't 

993
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,500
know, no, you know, better or 
not and I'm sure there will be 

994
00:57:13,500 --> 00:57:15,200
hopefully better safeguards in 
that spot. 

995
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,600
But I was sad there for a 
moment. 

996
00:57:17,900 --> 00:57:20,100
No, that's it's a good point. 
Jeff. 

997
00:57:20,100 --> 00:57:23,200
I mean, anybody can go out to 
sign up for a Google Voice 

998
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:25,900
number and then they don't have 
to work hard to spoof. 

999
00:57:25,900 --> 00:57:29,300
They have a legitimate Voice 
number that they can use to send

1000
00:57:29,300 --> 00:57:31,400
texts and pretend to be somebody
else. 

1001
00:57:32,500 --> 00:57:36,000
What I'm hoping. 
And, and I firmly believe that 

1002
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,300
someone will solve this problem.
Is that the, the verification 

1003
00:57:40,300 --> 00:57:42,500
that the person I'm interacting 
with this really who, I think 

1004
00:57:42,500 --> 00:57:46,000
they are. 
We can solve that with this 

1005
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,400
distributed Ledger. 
If there are enough enough 

1006
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,500
sources that Say yeah, this is 
really Jeff and this is really 

1007
00:57:52,500 --> 00:57:56,900
Jim and and that's who's talking
to who, then we don't have fake 

1008
00:57:56,900 --> 00:58:01,000
profiles and we don't have MFA 
notices coming from somebody 

1009
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:06,000
that we didn't allow. 
And I know that's not the whole 

1010
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:08,500
problem, the notion of who can 
trigger the request on the 

1011
00:58:08,500 --> 00:58:12,000
Chain. 
If we have people who understand

1012
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:15,100
this a lot better than I do in 
the weeds building, a 

1013
00:58:15,107 --> 00:58:19,500
decentralized application, that 
has that trust built in from the

1014
00:58:19,700 --> 00:58:22,400
Core from from the ground up, 
right? 

1015
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:26,500
And that get to that it's not 
zero trust, maybe it's true 

1016
00:58:26,500 --> 00:58:29,200
trust right? 
I'm here patent pending we need 

1017
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:32,800
a powder yeah we better 
neighborhood - Frost or but then

1018
00:58:33,100 --> 00:58:38,400
we can build that and and I say 
that because if you look at what

1019
00:58:38,500 --> 00:58:43,600
computers used to look like in 
the 50s where they took up 

1020
00:58:43,700 --> 00:58:48,100
entire floors of Metropolitan 
Office Buildings. 

1021
00:58:48,700 --> 00:58:52,200
And now I've got Computer that 
has access all over the world 

1022
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:53,600
that fits in the palm of my 
hand. 

1023
00:58:54,100 --> 00:58:58,000
We solve that problem. 
I say we people smarter than me,

1024
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,600
solve that problem. 
It took them a minute. 

1025
00:59:00,700 --> 00:59:03,200
It took a lot of trial and 
error, but they solved it. 

1026
00:59:03,500 --> 00:59:07,100
And the problem that you're 
identifying right now needs to 

1027
00:59:07,100 --> 00:59:08,300
be at the top of the list, 
right? 

1028
00:59:08,300 --> 00:59:11,600
This is a use case. 
We need trust to ensure that 

1029
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:16,300
people can't exploit the MFA 
fatigue attack that they can't 

1030
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,600
abuse this system that 
decentralized. 

1031
00:59:19,700 --> 00:59:24,000
Identity really proves who we 
are to one another and if they 

1032
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,300
build it in from the ground up, 
then it may take a couple of 

1033
00:59:27,308 --> 00:59:31,000
decades but we'll get there and 
we're seeing it right now. 

1034
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:35,300
We're seeing the cusp of it. 
So we're running long but I'm 

1035
00:59:35,300 --> 00:59:38,100
enjoying the conversations, 
we're going to keep going and I 

1036
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,500
went a little programming note. 
We are actually are heard in the

1037
00:59:41,500 --> 00:59:44,200
Republic of Korea. 
We actually have listeners 

1038
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:47,600
there, so, which is absolutely 
crazy for our podcast. 

1039
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:51,600
Jim. 
What is Your prediction, you're 

1040
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,400
bold prediction for 2012. 
Sorry was I Daddy. 

1041
00:59:54,700 --> 00:59:58,000
I want to start with the fact 
that that post that talked about

1042
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:03,700
David Stromer responded to his 
prediction was decentralized ID 

1043
01:00:04,300 --> 01:00:07,300
as well as verifiable 
credentials. 

1044
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,800
He's in the banking industry and
he's looking at look it really 

1045
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,800
comes down to trust. 
So everything that Jr.'s 

1046
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:18,100
been talking about I think is 
right up the alley of what David

1047
01:00:18,100 --> 01:00:19,800
brought up. 
So I think we talked about at 

1048
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,400
that enough. 
I'm going to go on the more 

1049
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:27,300
tactical, end of the spectrum, 
Jake and fried entity were 

1050
01:00:27,300 --> 01:00:31,300
thinking the same thing as me, 
which is this is the year of 

1051
01:00:31,300 --> 01:00:33,900
Paso Robles. 
I know that sounds like what a 

1052
01:00:33,900 --> 01:00:37,200
big bold prediction but that a 
few conferences this year and 

1053
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:42,200
that was the soup du jour. 
But also I started to hearing a 

1054
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,700
lot of presentations from actual
companies who are implementing 

1055
01:00:45,700 --> 01:00:50,200
it now, they seem like companies
that were more on the Edge of 

1056
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:53,500
Technology more on The Cutting 
Edge of identity but I think 

1057
01:00:53,500 --> 01:00:57,400
what you're going to see is that
it becomes more commonplace and 

1058
01:00:57,900 --> 01:01:03,100
two reasons why I think if you 
are already doing MFA, it's kind

1059
01:01:03,100 --> 01:01:07,100
of the next step, in terms of 
giving a better user experience 

1060
01:01:07,100 --> 01:01:11,400
to your end user. 
And even if you're not or if you

1061
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:15,900
are either way, what value does 
the password really? 

1062
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:19,200
Add in a multi-factor 
authentication. 

1063
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:23,400
I mean, if you're doing a 
biometric, what is, what is the 

1064
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:26,600
password, add to that? 
In fact, I think, when you've 

1065
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:30,400
really inspect what the password
does to the chain, in terms of 

1066
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,300
the quote, unquote unhappy path,
which I talk about it all the 

1067
01:01:33,300 --> 01:01:36,000
time. 
It's you have to have some way 

1068
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,000
for people to unlock the 
password or maybe use the 

1069
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:42,800
password as some form of, you 
know, hey, I don't have my 

1070
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,000
biometric but I know my 
password. 

1071
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:48,400
So maybe you are who you say? 
You say you are I just don't 

1072
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:51,300
think the password adds value to
the chain anymore. 

1073
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:56,400
And so I think that people are 
absorbing that I think not. 

1074
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:59,300
Everything's going to be 
pastoralist next year but I 

1075
01:01:59,300 --> 01:02:03,200
think you're going to see the 
wave grow significantly Jared 

1076
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:04,900
when it comes to your 
perspective on Pastor. 

1077
01:02:04,900 --> 01:02:06,000
That's where do you stand right 
now. 

1078
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:11,400
Love it to death. 
It's a guy's eye when I'm 

1079
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:13,800
talking about passwords, I go 
back to Monty Python and the 

1080
01:02:13,808 --> 01:02:16,200
Holy Grail in the French 
Connecticut. 

1081
01:02:16,500 --> 01:02:19,400
John Cleese Standing On Top 
yelling, what's your password? 

1082
01:02:19,700 --> 01:02:24,000
And it that the back and forth, 
that's literally, the technology

1083
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:26,800
that we're using today, we've 
just implemented it with ones 

1084
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,200
and zeros. 
Instead of two people yelling 

1085
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:30,800
back and forth, over a castle 
wall. 

1086
01:02:31,900 --> 01:02:37,400
The, the big concern I have, 
when I look at password, listen 

1087
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:43,900
and this is a little offshoot is
From a legal perspective. 

1088
01:02:44,300 --> 01:02:46,300
When we talk about 
authenticating two devices, we 

1089
01:02:46,308 --> 01:02:50,100
talked about Biometrics, we 
talked about, you know, taking 

1090
01:02:50,100 --> 01:02:54,100
the password out of the mix, we 
still have a challenge in the US

1091
01:02:54,100 --> 01:02:58,800
with the court system, 
understanding the application of

1092
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:00,800
the Fourth Amendment when it 
comes to technology. 

1093
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:06,000
So I'm a full disclosure paid 
member supporter of the 

1094
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:09,300
Electronic Frontier Foundation, 
absolutely believe in the 

1095
01:03:09,308 --> 01:03:12,200
mission of that organization. 
And and In the work that they're

1096
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:18,500
doing. 
And when I look at cases where 

1097
01:03:18,500 --> 01:03:22,300
an individual might be asked to 
turn over to Vice or to Grant 

1098
01:03:22,300 --> 01:03:25,400
access to something that the 
current law. 

1099
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:30,200
The ruling precedent, I should 
say is that you can't be forced 

1100
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,600
to tell somebody your password, 
but you can be forced to hold 

1101
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:37,000
your finger to a fingerprint 
reader to unlock something and 

1102
01:03:37,300 --> 01:03:41,100
that's fundamentally. 
It's the same principle that 

1103
01:03:41,100 --> 01:03:43,300
there. 
A lock and I have the authority 

1104
01:03:43,300 --> 01:03:48,300
to either unlock or lock that 
lock to Grant access to whatever

1105
01:03:48,300 --> 01:03:51,100
is on the other side. 
And if we go full-on password 

1106
01:03:51,100 --> 01:03:54,200
list without resolving the legal
issues, we are going to have 

1107
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:58,100
cases where people are turning 
over information that they don't

1108
01:03:58,100 --> 01:04:01,100
want to turn over that, they're 
not legally obligated to turn 

1109
01:04:01,100 --> 01:04:04,400
over, but it's being 
interpreted, like that in a 

1110
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,600
court of law. 
I just want to see that figured 

1111
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:10,100
out. 
I have a, one of my former 

1112
01:04:10,100 --> 01:04:13,600
neighbors is a Defense lawyer 
and I asked him about a 

1113
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,600
point-blank. 
I'm like how if if a and b are 

1114
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:17,900
the same thing. 
It's just a different 

1115
01:04:17,900 --> 01:04:21,200
implementation, the same 
technology than why is it 

1116
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:24,600
interpreted for differently. 
And it's the answer to me was 

1117
01:04:24,900 --> 01:04:29,100
well it's because whoever argued
the case, the one attorney did a

1118
01:04:29,107 --> 01:04:32,200
better job than the other that 
terrifies me guys. 

1119
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:36,000
But yeah, that's my one. 
Hesitation my one concerned 

1120
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,900
about going full-on. 
Password list is the legal side 

1121
01:04:38,900 --> 01:04:41,100
of it. 
Yeah, that is an interesting 

1122
01:04:41,100 --> 01:04:43,100
point. 
I think, yeah, I mean, how 

1123
01:04:43,100 --> 01:04:46,800
quickly will laws of the land, 
catch up to technology, they're 

1124
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:50,300
notoriously behind, right? 
Yeah, I think that would scare 

1125
01:04:50,300 --> 01:04:52,900
off, you know, some folks from 
thinking about that perspective 

1126
01:04:52,900 --> 01:04:55,100
as okay. 
Well, you know, if we're really 

1127
01:04:55,100 --> 01:04:57,100
trying to provide the best 
security, you could make the 

1128
01:04:57,100 --> 01:05:00,500
argument that password lists 
based on that interpretation of 

1129
01:05:00,500 --> 01:05:05,300
the law, lowers your security. 
Yeah, which is absolutely 

1130
01:05:05,300 --> 01:05:08,400
asinine in my head but that's 
where we are today. 

1131
01:05:08,900 --> 01:05:12,500
I think it's going to A very 
ugly, very uncomfortable court 

1132
01:05:12,500 --> 01:05:15,500
case and nobody wants to 
volunteer to be the defender in 

1133
01:05:15,500 --> 01:05:17,200
that case. 
Nobody wants to be on the 

1134
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:21,200
defense of of setting that 
precedent. 

1135
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:23,800
But I think that's what's going 
to need to happen in order for 

1136
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:26,400
us to land on a better 
understanding. 

1137
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:31,500
Alright, so here's my bold 
prediction for 2023 on identity,

1138
01:05:31,900 --> 01:05:33,800
I went completely the opposite 
way of both. 

1139
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:37,700
You guys I think it's going to 
be a year where we go back to 

1140
01:05:37,700 --> 01:05:41,000
basics a bit more. 
Fundamentals. 

1141
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:44,900
When it comes to access 
management identity governance, 

1142
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:48,300
privileged access, I think we're
going to see a lot of 

1143
01:05:48,300 --> 01:05:51,900
organizations really taking 
stock of their core identity and

1144
01:05:51,900 --> 01:05:56,600
access management use cases, 
capabilities, and Technologies 

1145
01:05:57,100 --> 01:05:59,800
and going back and really 
nailing those fundamentals 

1146
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:01,300
better than maybe they have in 
the past. 

1147
01:06:01,300 --> 01:06:03,000
I think part of that's going to 
be driven by the economy. 

1148
01:06:03,100 --> 01:06:05,100
I don't think there's going to 
be, I think we're seeing a 

1149
01:06:05,107 --> 01:06:06,600
pullback at least on the US 
side. 

1150
01:06:06,700 --> 01:06:09,500
So I think there's going to be a
question to to say hi. 

1151
01:06:09,700 --> 01:06:14,500
We do more with less or do 
better with what we have already

1152
01:06:15,100 --> 01:06:16,700
and try to button up some of 
those holes. 

1153
01:06:16,700 --> 01:06:20,500
So the way I see it is I think I
think we'll see more companies 

1154
01:06:20,500 --> 01:06:22,900
really getting back to the 
basics a little bit. 

1155
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:25,500
Maybe they've been distracted 
over the last few years with 

1156
01:06:25,500 --> 01:06:28,100
things like zero. 
Trust. 

1157
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:32,500
Yeah or analytics or a I right 
or things like that. 

1158
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,800
And there I think they will have
gone through this process where 

1159
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:37,800
there's like, oh yeah we bought 
this thing and we can't you 

1160
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:40,400
really use it the way we thought
because we In do this, other 

1161
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,300
really important thing first, we
didn't solve our data quality 

1162
01:06:43,300 --> 01:06:48,200
issue, or we didn't actually fix
our business process to align 

1163
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:50,800
with the way that our tools work
where the way we want them to 

1164
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,400
work at things like that. 
So I think it'll be, you know, 

1165
01:06:53,408 --> 01:06:58,600
Going Back to Basics and and 
figuring out how to get those 

1166
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:00,900
done first. 
And I think that's a good thing 

1167
01:07:00,900 --> 01:07:03,900
because I think we continue. 
I need to go back and review 

1168
01:07:03,900 --> 01:07:06,300
things and not just sit on our 
Laurels and say, okay, well we 

1169
01:07:06,300 --> 01:07:08,700
saw that problem five years ago 
so that's good. 

1170
01:07:08,900 --> 01:07:10,900
Things have changed. 
Changed and there, probably 

1171
01:07:10,900 --> 01:07:13,400
needs to be a little 
re-architecting of process. 

1172
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:18,100
Maybe people, maybe technology 
right to modernize and move with

1173
01:07:18,100 --> 01:07:21,200
the times and catch back up, and
then that sets you up for the 

1174
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:24,400
next cycle of, okay, well, we're
comfortable where we are now. 

1175
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:27,500
What's next? 
Let's go to XYZ, whatever the 

1176
01:07:27,500 --> 01:07:32,700
ends up being blockchain Quantum
voice, Biometrics decentralized,

1177
01:07:32,700 --> 01:07:35,000
you know, Identity or salsa or 
identity, right? 

1178
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:37,600
Or things like that. 
So that's where I think things 

1179
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:39,200
are headed. 
I don't know. 

1180
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:40,900
Jim. 
You and I we work a lot 

1181
01:07:40,900 --> 01:07:42,200
together. 
You know, what do you think 

1182
01:07:42,200 --> 01:07:46,300
about what I'm thinking is my 
bold prediction of of going back

1183
01:07:46,300 --> 01:07:48,800
now to the Stone Age but going 
back to the basics, namely 

1184
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:53,700
knows, I mean, it makes sense, 
especially given the economic 

1185
01:07:56,500 --> 01:07:59,200
premise that you put forth. 
That companies are going to be 

1186
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:02,700
strapped for money potentially 
if that if that plays out 

1187
01:08:02,700 --> 01:08:06,200
because I don't think that's a 
guarantee people calling for a 

1188
01:08:06,207 --> 01:08:09,600
recession recession. 
A lot of times when that's 

1189
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:11,900
Nobody's saying there's going to
be a recession that's when the 

1190
01:08:11,900 --> 01:08:14,700
recession doesn't happen. 
So, and by the way, I'm not 

1191
01:08:14,700 --> 01:08:16,200
telling people to keep saying 
that. 

1192
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:21,700
Yeah yeah, yeah, go for it. 
But in that context and 

1193
01:08:21,700 --> 01:08:26,200
companies do with what what, you
know, I need to make myself 

1194
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:28,200
valuable around here. 
What am I going to do? 

1195
01:08:28,700 --> 01:08:33,000
The thing that I think hurts 
that perspective Chef? 

1196
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:39,800
Is that I think the demand for 
cybersecurity talent definitely 

1197
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:42,000
outweighs what's available 
today. 

1198
01:08:42,300 --> 01:08:47,000
And I think that, you know, a 
lot of folks are in their roles 

1199
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:51,000
and I am or nor and kind of 
stretch Each opportunities which

1200
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:54,399
isn't a bad thing. 
I mean we've all been there, but

1201
01:08:54,399 --> 01:08:58,200
it makes it hard to know what to
do to kind of get back to 

1202
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:01,800
fundamentals when you you're 
like new to the position, right?

1203
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,899
I think so. 
Yeah, I think that's where, you 

1204
01:09:04,899 --> 01:09:07,200
know, the community comes 
together, right? 

1205
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:10,300
And, you know, I'll point to ID 
Pro, which is a great community 

1206
01:09:10,300 --> 01:09:12,800
of identity people. 
The very healthy slack channel 

1207
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:16,100
that exists where people can 
drop in and ask questions and 

1208
01:09:16,100 --> 01:09:19,100
things like that. 
I think we benefit from a time 

1209
01:09:19,100 --> 01:09:22,000
where Where there is so much 
more information. 

1210
01:09:23,100 --> 01:09:27,399
As of right now, today around 
identity and how to get things 

1211
01:09:27,399 --> 01:09:29,300
done. 
Then there was this time of year

1212
01:09:29,300 --> 01:09:32,300
ago and expect exponentially 
more than, you know, years and 

1213
01:09:32,300 --> 01:09:34,200
years and years ago, as people 
have gotten into this. 

1214
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:37,899
You could pop up a YouTube video
about anything. 

1215
01:09:38,100 --> 01:09:40,800
And look on any topic, right, we
basically have gone into the 

1216
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:45,500
Matrix where, you know, Neal 
learns come to, yeah, right. 

1217
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:47,000
You're downloading things. 
The same thing. 

1218
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:50,000
Like, I'm pulling up the skill 
right away and I'm seeing how 

1219
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,300
it's done. 
It's a little micro training. 

1220
01:09:52,399 --> 01:09:54,600
Ali. 
So I think, I think, I think 

1221
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:57,500
you're right and that there will
be people who, you know, maybe 

1222
01:09:57,500 --> 01:10:00,500
don't have that experience, but 
I think they benefit also from 

1223
01:10:00,500 --> 01:10:03,900
the people who came before them 
and the contribution to the body

1224
01:10:03,900 --> 01:10:06,300
of knowledge that exists as a 
whole from society. 

1225
01:10:06,500 --> 01:10:09,700
Specifically identity, you know,
jarrod's doing LinkedIn and 

1226
01:10:09,700 --> 01:10:12,900
training and other things. 
We're doing this podcast, right?

1227
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:16,400
Our friend Andrew is doing 
videos on YouTube and he's also 

1228
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:19,000
doing LinkedIn learning stuff. 
So there's just so much more 

1229
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:21,800
content out there. 
Now that I feel like it's easier

1230
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:24,500
to catch up. 
What's missing from that 

1231
01:10:24,500 --> 01:10:26,600
content, though? 
And this goes back to earlier, 

1232
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:28,200
Jerry you're saying is the soft 
skills. 

1233
01:10:28,900 --> 01:10:30,600
Is, you can be the smartest 
person, we're all. 

1234
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:33,400
But you can't, if you can't 
articulate what it is, you're 

1235
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:35,700
trying to do nothing's going to 
happen. 

1236
01:10:35,700 --> 01:10:38,200
So I think I think there's a yin
and yang to it. 

1237
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:42,400
Yeah, if you're trying to get 
people to stay in, for the Long 

1238
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:48,800
Haul to build out a healthy 
identity program, convincing 

1239
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:51,800
them that, it's not all going to
happen overnight that it's going

1240
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:55,200
to be, you know, In some cases, 
you talk about role-based access

1241
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:58,000
controls, if you large 
Enterprise in, you're deploying 

1242
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:01,400
technology that even if it's 
leveraging AI to go through or 

1243
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:04,200
machine learning and turn 
through all that data, to help 

1244
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:07,000
you arrive more quickly at what 
that are Beck program. 

1245
01:11:07,100 --> 01:11:10,700
A break program might look like 
it's still going to take a 

1246
01:11:10,708 --> 01:11:13,500
minute and keeping people 
interested. 

1247
01:11:13,500 --> 01:11:18,200
Keeping people, excited is not. 
You can't do it with stats. 

1248
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:22,300
You can't deal with numbers but 
I really do like the notion 

1249
01:11:22,300 --> 01:11:23,600
Jeff. 
One. 

1250
01:11:24,300 --> 01:11:27,300
If you combine the ID Pro 
Community with the identity to 

1251
01:11:27,308 --> 01:11:30,700
find security Alliance, which is
more vendor driven, vendor 

1252
01:11:30,700 --> 01:11:34,100
Centric, I think the resources 
between those two organizations 

1253
01:11:34,100 --> 01:11:38,800
for identity professionals, if 
you never set in the seat 

1254
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:42,300
before, and your boss comes to 
you and says guess what? 

1255
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:44,500
You're the identity person 
figure it out. 

1256
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:49,800
You've got a world of knowledge 
and people hungry to share with 

1257
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:54,300
you right there between those 
two, those Those two groups, but

1258
01:11:54,300 --> 01:11:58,000
I also love the the notion of 
fundamentals fundamentals when 

1259
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:01,800
the day anybody who's read the 
book Moneyball knows that, you 

1260
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:04,200
know, you don't have to hit a 
home run every time you're up to

1261
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:05,700
bat, you just got to get on 
base. 

1262
01:12:06,100 --> 01:12:08,100
You get enough enough? 
Folks who understand the 

1263
01:12:08,108 --> 01:12:12,200
fundamentals and could keep that
that machine moving forward, 

1264
01:12:12,500 --> 01:12:15,600
then you're staying ahead of the
people who do you harm? 

1265
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:20,700
You're staying ahead of The 
Accidental incidents that result

1266
01:12:20,700 --> 01:12:22,400
in harm or disruption to the 
business. 

1267
01:12:23,100 --> 01:12:25,800
Yeah fundamentals I hope you're 
right on that man. 

1268
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:31,000
I really do i-i'll talk about 
Quantum in all the kind of far 

1269
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:34,700
out years out. 
I think there's still a critical

1270
01:12:34,700 --> 01:12:37,000
need for people to be focusing 
on Innovation. 

1271
01:12:37,500 --> 01:12:40,400
But you know, you've if 
everybody is focused on 

1272
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:43,400
Innovation and nobody's focusing
on fundamentals, will never get 

1273
01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:45,900
there, right? 
Because things are all going to 

1274
01:12:45,900 --> 01:12:50,200
fall apart before then. 
All right, I think we've set a 

1275
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:52,900
record officially for our 
longest episode ever. 

1276
01:12:52,900 --> 01:12:54,500
So we're going to start to wrap 
things up. 

1277
01:12:55,700 --> 01:12:58,400
We're going to end on a lighter 
note, as we always do, but we'll

1278
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:01,400
try to keep it brief if we can 
and we're going to stay with the

1279
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:04,400
predictions. 
So what is your non-identity 

1280
01:13:05,100 --> 01:13:08,700
related prediction for 2023? 
Jared you go first. 

1281
01:13:09,300 --> 01:13:12,000
All right, I've got to number 
one. 

1282
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:14,500
I predicted people who listen to
this podcast. 

1283
01:13:14,500 --> 01:13:16,200
We're going to reach out to me 
on LinkedIn and keep the 

1284
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:21,300
conversation going. 
So let's see how accurate I am 

1285
01:13:21,300 --> 01:13:23,300
on that one. 
I will have a LinkedIn in our 

1286
01:13:23,300 --> 01:13:25,200
show notes so people will make 
it a lot bigger people. 

1287
01:13:25,300 --> 01:13:29,600
I really appreciate that, but 
I'm a big movie buff. 

1288
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:35,100
I, you know, you can look me up 
on IMDb I, that's a whole nother

1289
01:13:35,100 --> 01:13:36,600
story. 
The number of screenplays are 

1290
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:38,300
written, the number of shorts 
that I've shot. 

1291
01:13:38,500 --> 01:13:45,200
I'm actually in a feature on to 
be it's bong of the Living Dead.

1292
01:13:45,700 --> 01:13:48,700
It's a zombie Stoner comedy, 
that was Shot here in Columbus 

1293
01:13:48,700 --> 01:13:50,800
Ohio. 
I'm a Zombie. 

1294
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:54,900
See if you can pick me up, but 
my other prediction is 

1295
01:13:54,900 --> 01:13:58,300
movie-related. 
I predict that people who go see

1296
01:13:58,300 --> 01:14:01,800
Guardians of the Galaxy 3 and 
theaters are going to be crying 

1297
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:03,600
like babies before that movie, 
stun. 

1298
01:14:04,300 --> 01:14:07,900
Really think that James Gunn is 
he's brilliant. 

1299
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:10,700
He knows that he and Tycho with 
TD are two of my favorite story,

1300
01:14:10,700 --> 01:14:13,800
tellers. 
And I think with, with this 

1301
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:17,500
culmination of the Guardian 
story that it's going to tug on,

1302
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:19,600
Heartstrings in a way that 
people aren't ready for. 

1303
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:21,600
That's my prediction. 
All right, well, I'm prepared 

1304
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:23,400
for that. 
I'm a garden is Galaxy fan and I

1305
01:14:23,407 --> 01:14:26,600
love taika waititi and is his 
take on the Marvel Universe. 

1306
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:28,500
I think Thor 11 Thunder and 
yeah. 

1307
01:14:28,700 --> 01:14:31,400
Thor Ragnarok are two of my 
favorites because they don't get

1308
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:34,100
serious. 
It's just fun movies. 

1309
01:14:34,300 --> 01:14:36,100
All right, Jim. 
How about yourself, what's your 

1310
01:14:36,100 --> 01:14:40,300
non-identity prediction for 23? 
Well, I'm going to make a 

1311
01:14:40,300 --> 01:14:43,200
prediction about the identity at
the center podcast. 

1312
01:14:43,300 --> 01:14:46,400
We had a double up on our 
listenership this year. 

1313
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:48,500
I'm going to predict from 
They're double up. 

1314
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:52,500
So we won't know if I was right 
until the end of 2023. 

1315
01:14:52,500 --> 01:14:55,800
But I mean I think we're, you 
know, we're getting great guests

1316
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:59,600
like Jared and, you know, we're 
being consistent, putting out 

1317
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:03,000
episodes every week and people 
seem to appreciate it. 

1318
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:07,200
So, you know, as they spread the
word I think it happens. 

1319
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:09,300
What do you think? 
Yeah, I mean, I hope you're 

1320
01:15:09,300 --> 01:15:10,900
right. 
I think, you know, people 

1321
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:13,500
sharing it, following it 
subscribing to it, you know, as 

1322
01:15:13,500 --> 01:15:16,200
all good stuff, you know, being 
just part of the, I think the 

1323
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:19,300
little kind of Unity that we've 
built here together. 

1324
01:15:19,300 --> 01:15:22,700
I think it's been a lot of fun. 
So you know we certainly have 

1325
01:15:22,700 --> 01:15:24,900
met listeners and those have 
been opened, you know, super 

1326
01:15:24,900 --> 01:15:28,400
positive experiences and got to 
do some interesting things, 

1327
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:31,500
maybe in Las Vegas together, 
which was something that we will

1328
01:15:31,500 --> 01:15:33,400
talk about on the podcast. 
But if you were there, you know 

1329
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:34,800
exactly what we're talking 
about. 

1330
01:15:35,500 --> 01:15:37,800
So yeah, I mean, hopefully 
that'll kill continue to roll. 

1331
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:40,200
Will keep doing it for as long 
as we're having fun, doing it. 

1332
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:44,000
And we'll try to keep it as true
to home as we can and not make 

1333
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:46,800
it a commercial for any anything
and kind of a vendor neutral. 

1334
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:48,500
Safe place. 
The goal here. 

1335
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:54,600
Mine is somewhat selfish. 
I'm going to say here that in 23

1336
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:57,100
2023. 
The Cubs are going to beat the 

1337
01:15:57,100 --> 01:16:00,400
Cardinals when they play in 
London during June of twenty 

1338
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:03,100
twenty-three because I actually 
have tickets to the game one of 

1339
01:16:03,108 --> 01:16:05,400
the games there and I'm planning
on being in London for watching 

1340
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:08,100
one of those games. 
So I'm hopeful that my Chicago 

1341
01:16:08,100 --> 01:16:11,100
Cubs will beat the Cardinals at 
least one of those games. 

1342
01:16:11,300 --> 01:16:14,800
Hopefully, what I'm at Cubs have
not been good. 

1343
01:16:14,900 --> 01:16:17,500
The last couple of years, we are
still celebrating the world. 

1344
01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:21,500
Series from several years back. 
I think they've, you know, if 

1345
01:16:21,500 --> 01:16:24,000
that's that's totally been fine 
for a lot of people, but I'm 

1346
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:27,500
expecting a Cubs Victory when I 
attend the game Inland. 

1347
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:30,400
So that's my prediction. 
All right. 

1348
01:16:30,500 --> 01:16:33,500
We're officially an hour and 15 
are longest Episode. 

1349
01:16:33,500 --> 01:16:36,800
By far, we're going to go ahead 
and wrap it up for this week and

1350
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:40,400
probably this year as well. 
So I want to thank everyone 

1351
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:42,000
who's been part of this journey 
with us. 

1352
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:45,400
Listening, we're on the web 
identity, the center.com, or on 

1353
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:49,400
Twitter so far idac. 
Guests, who knows, maybe 23 will

1354
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:51,100
bring a mastodon account of some
sort. 

1355
01:16:51,500 --> 01:16:54,100
Maybe we'll be over there but 
we're looking forward to 

1356
01:16:54,100 --> 01:16:57,000
connecting with Folks at 
conferences that will be at over

1357
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:00,500
the next year. 
I Denver's Gartner probably 

1358
01:17:00,500 --> 01:17:02,400
other ones that I'm missing and 
not just thinking about the 

1359
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:04,400
moment but those are the two 
ones that come to my mind. 

1360
01:17:05,100 --> 01:17:07,700
And if you have ideas and 
comments for the show, hit us up

1361
01:17:07,700 --> 01:17:11,000
on LinkedIn to show do to be 
chock full of stuff for this 

1362
01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:12,300
one. 
We'll have Jared's LinkedIn, 

1363
01:17:12,300 --> 01:17:15,400
will have the LinkedIn learning 
sort of playlist that also 

1364
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:19,100
includes Jared stuff. 
Links to identify verse Gartner,

1365
01:17:19,100 --> 01:17:21,100
Jim. 
And I and I'm sure a bunch of 

1366
01:17:21,100 --> 01:17:23,700
stuff that I forget right now. 
So with that, we're going to go 

1367
01:17:23,700 --> 01:17:26,000
ahead and leave it. 
Thanks everyone for listening 

1368
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:28,100
and we'll talk with you all in 
the next one. 

1369
01:17:32,300 --> 01:17:35,200
Thanks for listening to the 
identity at the center podcast. 

1370
01:17:35,300 --> 01:17:37,600
If you like what you heard, 
don't forget to subscribe and 

1371
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:40,300
visit us on the web and identity
at the center.com.