1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,320 We want to kill roles, and we could want actually to kill any 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:07,080 in between layer who's trying to translate the word of 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,320 entitlement into a business language because we think it's 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,160 no longer needed. It's a good transition topic to 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:18,840 move from administering the system to ask anything from a 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:24,520 user perspective. So kind of I'd say, what is this 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:29,000 capability and who would get access to it? 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:34,080 So our platform is designed to give access with visibility 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,560 controls and then I'll talk about that how we ensure 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,000 visibility or proper access restriction. 11 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,800 It can be anything, can be the business users, they are 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,560 typically lost and they always call an out desk and say I need 13 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,200 permission to do something. And by the way, I would love to 14 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,480 get everything that my friend has because that is actually 15 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,200 what I have to do. They express their problem 16 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,880 without talking about entitlement and application 17 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:05,960 name. They don't say I need SAPI, need 18 00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:08,120 Salesforce. They say I need to do what 19 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,680 Johnny's doing. Well, minus that stuff that he's 20 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,280 doing because, you know, I don't have the permission. 21 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,680 That's the way it expressed it. So the primary persona that is 22 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,200 benefit from that simplification are the thousands of business 23 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:28,040 users that today are complaining that these systems are complex, 24 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,080 that the entitlement doesn't speak the language. 25 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,800 And then you know what they do? They just call the app best they 26 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,760 call the application owners or in the case of access 27 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,400 recyclification, they say they just say, OK, click, click, 28 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:40,280 click. Who cares? 29 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,800 I don't understand it. Get get it off my back. 30 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,320 So business user are the primary benefit of that. 31 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,960 This is identity at the center if it has anything to do with 32 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,560 IAM. This is the go to podcast now 33 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,440 your hosts Jim McDonald and Jeff Steadman. 34 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,960 Welcome to the Identity at the Center podcast. 35 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,640 I'm Jim. I'm without Jeff today, but I 36 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:21,920 have a fantastic guest, Andrea Rossi from Yamonez. 37 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,800 And that's right, it's time for another Sponsor Spotlight 38 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,760 episode. These special episodes are 39 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:33,040 created in collaboration with our sponsor to delve more deeply 40 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,560 into their viewpoints and specific solutions in the 41 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,640 identity and access management market. 42 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,400 To make this crystal clear, this is a fully sponsored episode. 43 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,400 This allows us to provide you in depth insights and expert 44 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,360 perspectives straight from the source. 45 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:54,680 And so like I said, we have Andrea Rossi from Yamonez, a 46 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,040 conversational identity governance platform that we're 47 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:03,880 going to learn more about today. Their website is Yamonez dot AI 48 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,120 and they have a special landing page for you, which I'll mention 49 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:08,720 several times during the episode. 50 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:16,880 Yamonez dot AI/ID A/C Andrea, welcome to the Identity at the 51 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:18,960 Center podcast. We're very happy to have you. 52 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:20,800 Thank you. My pleasure. 53 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,560 So our mutual friend Marco Venuti taught me the 54 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,520 pronunciation. How close did I get it? 55 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,560 Yamonez. You're perfect. 56 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:37,760 And yeah, say it. Yamones or Yamones you can. 57 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:43,160 That's a right pronunciation. OK, So what are all the other 58 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,000 pronunciations that you hear? Because I mean, honestly, when 59 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,280 you look at the name, it looks like I am ones, right? 60 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,120 But that's that's not correct. Yeah. 61 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,320 You know, there is a reason for the name we picked, but it's, 62 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,640 you know, basically all you want the customers and clients and 63 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,640 partners and the ecosystem to remember is that your name is 64 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,720 not easy to pronounce, so it becomes stickier. 65 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:13,720 So sometimes they say I am once, which is the typical reading 66 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:19,480 point from an English standpoint or otherwise the Spanish say 67 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,680 come honest like the prosciutto or the hen. 68 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,080 So it's just the name that you can pronounce it actually the 69 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,360 way you want as long as you remember there is a company that 70 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,000 does interesting things. Yeah, absolutely. 71 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:40,680 So again, Yamonez dot AI/ID A/C spelled like IAM ones ONES. 72 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:47,120 And so if you go to that direct link, it's a there's a special 73 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:52,120 offer that Andre and his company have put together $5000 off a 74 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,600 subscription. So if it's something that you're 75 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,800 going to explore after this podcast is over and after you've 76 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,400 heard about all the great things they do, make sure you go to 77 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:06,640 that link and get your discount. A little bit more about the name 78 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,880 because I don't want to freeze by this, but Andrea, how did you 79 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:18,520 come up with the name Yamones? So when we created the company, 80 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,800 you know, I have the basic rule, which is even before 81 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,080 establishing the company, you have to find a good name and the 82 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,280 name has to mean something to you. 83 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,120 So I decided to put together MY2 passions in that name. 84 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,360 The first one is Identity Access Management, because I've been in 85 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,680 this domain for 20 years. I founded a company called Cross 86 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,560 ADS and then sold to IBM. So I've seen all the original 87 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,320 sense that I'm trying to fix today. 88 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:52,320 And the other part of the name is, you know, I was born in 67 89 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,400 and I was born and raised with punk and punk and rock'n'roll. 90 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,480 So the other part of the name comes from the Ramones and 91 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,920 that's why the pronunciation is Yamounse. 92 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:08,120 And why that name? Not just because I love that 93 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,280 band that created punk rock, but because the Ramones took a 94 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:15,080 boring genre sort of rock'n'roll. 95 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:20,000 Songs lasting 7 minutes, complex lyrics and made it fun. 96 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,320 Songs were one minute and a half and quite melodic. 97 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,200 So what we're trying to do into the IGA experience is a lot like 98 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,520 what the Ramones brought to rock'n'roll. 99 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,680 Fast, fun and simple. Yeah. 100 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:40,080 And I'll tell you the this space, the IAM or Digital 101 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,680 Identity space is kind of famous for having unique names of 102 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,440 companies. I remember the first IAM product 103 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,560 that I worked with was OBLIX. And we had to go and get 104 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,960 business approval to spend a lot of money to get OBLIX and 105 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,800 implement it with a equally funny name system integrator at 106 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,440 the time that no longer exists called Entology. 107 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,640 But getting all of that money proved when you don't know the 108 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,640 name, it can be interesting interplay. 109 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,160 But that's what you've got in this space. 110 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:17,320 I mean, some of the the most famous names that exist out 111 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,000 there today, if you if they weren't famous already, they 112 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:25,520 sound kind of funny. So, but I'm thinking about the 113 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,240 Ramones. What was their most famous song? 114 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:33,280 Well, the most famous song was Blitzkrieg Pop, which most of 115 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:38,160 the people don't know by that name, but the Hey ho, Let's go 116 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,400 slogan inside it. So that was for sure the 117 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,640 quintessential famous Ramones song. 118 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:49,120 And and that's basically the song that everybody knows not 119 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,680 even knowing. That's it by Red de Ramones. 120 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,440 So I, I have to admit I cheated a little bit. 121 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,840 So I, I was expecting you to give that answer, but I also saw 122 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,120 another song, which I remember called I want to be sedated. 123 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:09,760 And I also saw another song called Gabba Gabba Hey, and I 124 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,920 wanted to, I mean, it seems like that would be a perfect fit. 125 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,400 Gabba Gabba kind of sounds like yadda, yadda. 126 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:20,680 It's, you know, language. I think what you're doing is 127 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,280 bringing the large language model to a traditional space 128 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,560 like identity, governance and administration. 129 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,640 So what do you have to say about that? 130 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:38,679 Well, yes, Gabba, Gabba A, it's actually the first presentation 131 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,960 that we had. So when we got out of stealth, 132 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,039 we went out the Koopinger and Pole EIC event to believe it was 133 00:08:44,039 --> 00:08:46,400 June last year. The company's very young. 134 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,360 We basically exist since April last year. 135 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,520 And my first speech was Gabba, Gabba, I am. 136 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,000 And it was an attempt to say we're disrupting something with 137 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,000 conversation and with simplicity. 138 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,760 And yeah, we say that we use large language model and we'll 139 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,480 get into that. But essentially we are allowing 140 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:13,760 to conversate with the system rather than programming, coding 141 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,520 a system to do what you want to do. 142 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:21,520 And that's the, you know, this type of simplicity and ease of 143 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,960 use that we're trying to bring into this very complex domain of 144 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:30,560 IGA. Yeah, so that's starting to get 145 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:33,800 us to the elevator pitch, but why don't we get right to it? 146 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,600 What does your monies do? What makes the product unique? 147 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:43,120 So we essentially are unique on two aspects. 148 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,800 First of all, every interaction that a business user and auditor 149 00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:56,040 and I am an administrator, a third party is the only way to 150 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,720 access the system is just by asking question, any question in 151 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,680 your mother tongue. As we say, it doesn't have to be 152 00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:06,680 in English, can be in any language, even dialect. 153 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:12,240 So for the first time, the UI adapts to you, rather than you 154 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,560 having to adapt to UI where you don't know exactly where to 155 00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:18,040 navigate, where to click, what label is right. 156 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,280 That's the first thing that sets us apart. 157 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,880 The second part is we went a little further because I think 158 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,800 that this conversational UI will become the standard in software 159 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:36,320 industry 12 months from now. So we made another thing. 160 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:41,920 We said we also want the system to be configurable or to operate 161 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,320 according to natural language instructions. 162 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:51,200 So you tell the system as we speak this operational duty 163 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,160 policy, it's that permission, if it's with that permission for 164 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,560 that department, then there is a risk which is made this and 165 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:01,560 that. So it's like explaining what to 166 00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:07,520 do to a human and same applies for anything in the platform. 167 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:13,640 And that's a configuration of how the system, the amounts 168 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,960 identity brain resonates on your data. 169 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,800 And what I mean by your data, I mean the data that are 170 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,480 represented by user account permission roles, a bunch of 171 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,920 data which is sitting on Prem and legacy application that we 172 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:37,240 are able to augment and you know give Life, OK. 173 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:42,440 See, you say you augment that legacy IM application, you don't 174 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,600 replace it. No, no. 175 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,520 I think that clients have gone through blood, sweat and tears 176 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:53,400 of implementing provisioning. OK, you could call it IGA 177 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,720 identity. But they, you know, I've seen 178 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,000 plenty of clients they've gone through very painful 179 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,960 implementation of connectors with unders of application. 180 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,040 And maybe when it comes to security controls or workflow 181 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,760 they do very little, but they spend a fortune integrating. 182 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,800 So it would be stupid to say don't reuse that stuff. 183 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:18,200 So we tap into the existing traditional platforms, I don't 184 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,200 want to call them legacy, be the same .1 identity, save it. 185 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:28,240 And, you know, we take that data out, we enrich that data, and we 186 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:33,520 make it available for, you know, inquiring and reasoning with the 187 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,240 natural language that I just told you. 188 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,520 Yeah, you're taking all these AI tools and making them available 189 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,160 to these, whether you want to use the term or not. 190 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,880 I'll say the legacy identity infrastructure that's in place 191 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,760 today. So obviously I think that you're 192 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:58,440 the ideal client for you is a company that already has a 193 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,040 identity system in place, an IGA system in place. 194 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,720 Talk to me a little bit more about what is the ideal client 195 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:12,080 for your moans. So the ideal client is a large 196 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:17,920 enterprise that has implemented some sort of identity 197 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,360 management. Maybe you know they implemented 198 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,720 Oracle IDM years ago, maybe they have gone through save point, 199 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:29,480 IAQ 1, identity of savings or maybe they are going to more SAS 200 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,440 version. But they have gone through a 201 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,920 program of implementing IGA to some extent. 202 00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:40,160 So they have a platform where integration are set and we 203 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,480 cannot meant what they already have. 204 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:47,280 So for the time being, our target clients are large and 205 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,200 mature enterprises. And it's on your website that 206 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,160 it, it's right at the very top says enter the age of 207 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,920 conversational identity. And they feel like that's a 208 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:02,280 pretty bold statement. It's what I think we all we all 209 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,080 want to do, right? We're all excited about that 210 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:09,000 possibility. I put a post on LinkedIn. 211 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,120 It was actually a poll and I said, why isn't this there? 212 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,560 And I got a lot of, oh, you know, yes, our product does that 213 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,840 XY and Z. And here go to this. 214 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,720 I said every time someone would say this, they send me a video 215 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,920 and then I go, and I mean, I, I felt like for the most part of 216 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,760 seeing a lot of vaporware. So are we really there at this 217 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:36,760 age of conversational identity? Well, first of all, 218 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:42,160 conversational identity is a nickname we came up with because 219 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,800 it's a we need to call the way we do, which is essentially a 220 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,960 new softer stack with new ingredient and the new 221 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,400 ingredient is larger was model. We just we need to give it a 222 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,840 name and initially we call it the generative identity. 223 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:02,200 But then a partner here in Europe said, well, it's all 224 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,760 about conversation. So call it conversational 225 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,840 identity. And so we, we created that 226 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:16,120 nickname because for us it's, it's our DNA. 227 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,520 We had a very distinct luxury. We could build the platform 228 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:27,160 ground up with that ingredients. Most of the established players, 229 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,520 it's hard for them because they have an engine which is built on 230 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:35,320 traditional software, free AI and they probably are patching 231 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:40,800 some use cases with a bit of AI. So we wanted to have our self 232 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,880 qualified with the new branding because I think it's going to be 233 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,640 there's going to be a refreshing industry, not just identity. 234 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:56,040 The software industry will be disrupted by a new way of 235 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,160 building software application specifically in B to B. 236 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:04,440 And there is a nice interview by the Microsoft CEO in chairman 237 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,560 that basically says that where today a lot of business logic is 238 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:14,240 are coded into code and it's a bunch of CRUD, read delayed 239 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:19,800 updates into a database. All that logic which is now 240 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,600 softer with rule based configuration where rules are 241 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:28,360 sitting, maybe the database is going to be replaced by agents. 242 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,000 And I introduced essentially a mini larger language model that 243 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:38,200 does a business function. But where are you used to have 244 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:44,360 20 developers to code that logic, Now you have one LLM 245 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:49,000 engineer to does it in a week. You have other problems to fix, 246 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,040 but you know the productivity it's phenomenal. 247 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:59,800 I think I read this article also from Sam Altman that, you know, 248 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,960 within their club there is the bet of who's going to be the 249 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:08,800 first one man company at the billion dollar valuation. 250 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:15,119 Of course that a bit extreme, but but that's the that's the, 251 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,000 you know, my my take on the on on. 252 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,599 I went a bit too long into the conversation, but that's the 253 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,000 nuance behind it. No, it's, it's, it's 254 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,720 revolutionary thinking and it's something that I think we're all 255 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,160 wondering how's this all going to play out? 256 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,360 Is this going to be one day we walk into work and we don't need 257 00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:37,760 20 people, we just need one? Or is it going to happen over 258 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,760 time and they're going to be an evolution into this? 259 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,040 I think it's going to be more evolutionary. 260 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,520 I think that one person running a billion dollar company will 261 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,240 come sooner than we think because a lot of roles within 262 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:57,880 the company can be done using AI or large parts of our job could 263 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,000 be done using AI. So why not be able to create a 264 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:06,480 company that you know, makes those roles available to others. 265 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,680 So I don't think it's that crazy. 266 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,000 And then plus inflation of billion dollars will all be 267 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,560 billionaires here pretty soon. Yeah, and there and there is one 268 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,840 of just just one side comment I think I heard one time that you 269 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:24,120 know AI will replace all the boring tasks and honestly what 270 00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:28,960 is most boring than approving certifying entitlements from 271 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,160 managers that don't like that to be done. 272 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,520 So they would love to delegate to something that says, you 273 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:39,160 know, follow my guidelines right in natural language and approve 274 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,960 it for me. So we are exactly on a spot 275 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:46,360 where AI can replace boring tasks too. 276 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:52,320 And that's why we think that IGA is well spot on to be simplified 277 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,520 and rejuvenated. But what what we do or what is 278 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,400 happening in the market? My, my son is a second year 279 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:05,440 college cybersecurity major and I asked him, you know, are you 280 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,120 learning AI? And he's very little, very, very 281 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:11,880 little. And I kind of feel like that is, 282 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,880 has been the university model where it's kind of lagging 283 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:21,320 behind where things are going by a couple of years and then they 284 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,680 do catch up. But I said to him, I'm like, 285 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,280 this is the area you need to focus on because your career 286 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,040 will be using AI to get things done. 287 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,240 And that is how you are going to differentiate yourself in this 288 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,880 crowded marketplace. Even though we say, hey, there's 289 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:42,680 a a lack of talent in this cybersecurity space. 290 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,040 There's a lack of knowledgeable talent, talent, right? 291 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,600 People have experience. If somebody's coming right out 292 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,680 of college, there are plenty of people who don't know what they 293 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:55,160 do, don't know how to do it, looking for cybersecurity jobs. 294 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:59,080 I think that for him and for other people who are in college, 295 00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:04,720 like that's the that's the area to focus on is AI. 296 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:10,200 But we're throwing around this term AI and that's what I think 297 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,840 it's happens in the industry so much as. 298 00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:17,800 You know, now with 50% more AI, we joke around that it's kind of 299 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:23,000 just become marketing buzz and creating like business 300 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,720 intelligence reports. It's called AI. 301 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:31,200 And what I think people, the general public think of with AI 302 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:35,400 is what you're seeing starting to see more with like, you know, 303 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:41,160 even Google searches and you think of with open AI, it's gone 304 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,640 up to ChatGPT is this large language model, It's generative 305 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,640 AI. You talk about the large 306 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,080 language model. You don't talk about AI in that 307 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,800 generic sense as much. I'm like, is that right? 308 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,360 I mean, are you looking to make sure that people understand this 309 00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:03,760 isn't just, you know, just like a veneer? 310 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,560 Yeah, if you read to our presentation marketing material, 311 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,760 we don't use the word AI because they were AI is over abuse. 312 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,680 So we say we use large anguish Mara so which is a sub domain of 313 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,720 AI. But it's the most interesting 314 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,280 one because that's the that's that's the part that we really 315 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,920 replace boring tasks that now Humana made and that we also 316 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,560 replace a lot of jobs. I know it's not nice to say, but 317 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:35,440 that will happen. A lot of the interaction we have 318 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,560 with clients, they are asking questions reflecting the way 319 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,800 they are using that stuff today through Gemini or GPT, which is 320 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:48,200 not the way we do. We use the ingredient to rebuild 321 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,240 AB to B software stack and that's a new part that clients 322 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:57,040 still have to to be adapted with understanding that they are B to 323 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:02,080 B products will be rebuilt with a new ingredient and they will 324 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,440 become easier. So we are in the transitioning 325 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:12,000 moment and will it happen overnight be moving to AUI where 326 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,000 you just had things or system that can be configured the 327 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:20,680 natural language? No, for a simple reason. 328 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,400 The software market, we know with the UI done in a certain 329 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:30,640 way, with coding done in a certain way as 50 years, but it 330 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,360 won't take five years, it will take two years. 331 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:40,280 So the revolution will be dramatically faster because you 332 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:41,960 see and they are taken by surprise. 333 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:47,160 So university and colleges are taken by surprise, companies are 334 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,920 taken by surprise. And so they try to stop the 335 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,240 flood with one figure, say don't do that, don't do that. 336 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,280 But in reality, it's so bloody convenient that it's impossible 337 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:02,280 to stop. And I think that convenience 338 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,120 wins, and what we do is just convenient. 339 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:10,760 Right, I couldn't agree more. OK, I wouldn't really drill into 340 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,280 the solution. So we're talking about large 341 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:19,400 language model for your existing IGA implementation. 342 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:25,080 So as an administrator of an IGA system, I've got to do back end 343 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:26,640 work. I've got to configure the 344 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:31,560 system, create policies, excetera, create roles. 345 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:38,840 As a user of the system, I need to interact and get things done. 346 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,000 I might need to request access for somebody that works for me. 347 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,880 I may or may not know the access. 348 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:50,240 So those are the two areas, IGA configuration using large 349 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:55,800 language model and IGA user. And I think you call this Ask me 350 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,320 anything, be a large language model. 351 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:04,680 So first, I'd love to dig into the IGA configuration with large 352 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,320 language models. So let's stick there for a 353 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,640 minute. If we could, you know what is 354 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:16,200 this and why is it helpful for the company that has an existing 355 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,880 IGA infrastructure? So say that you have implemented 356 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,560 your traditional IGA and you spent blood with blood, sweat 357 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,280 and tears. It's connected to 200 358 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,800 applications and you have a wealth of data, user permission 359 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,920 request the roles that you have created in your legacy. 360 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,000 Now out of the issue. It's really reasoning or doing 361 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,160 stuff on those data and say I need to implement a very complex 362 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,080 separation of duty policy. I need to implement a very 363 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:49,480 sophisticated security policy that tells me every permission 364 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,320 which has been granted for less than two minutes and belong to a 365 00:24:53,320 --> 00:25:02,160 list of privileged permission and then the guy might also have 366 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,040 another permission. These type of complex 367 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,160 correlation policies are basically impossible to 368 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,440 implement in traditional identity platform. 369 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,040 This is just the example of security policies which is again 370 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,400 typically one of the things you would like to do with 371 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,120 traditional software, but you can't. 372 00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:26,400 So in our case, you take everything which I said and you 373 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,720 say, all right, so the security policy that I want to apply is 374 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,560 if a user has this list of permissions out of this 375 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,160 application and you name the permission and you name the 376 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,040 application as you call them as they are stored in the database 377 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,360 as their name. And if you say if this 378 00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:51,120 permission has been granted and revoked and lasted less than two 379 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:57,000 minutes, then it's suspicious. So these type of what I just 380 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,080 described, it's a complex instruction in natural language 381 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:07,200 that you give to us and we are able to reason on your data that 382 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,040 we take and extract out of your legacy platform. 383 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:15,440 That's a complex use case of configuration, a very simple 384 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,040 one. It's enriching descriptions of 385 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,040 your permissions. So your permission out of SAP 386 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,040 says was whatever are stored in save point, there's the 387 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,960 permission name and then there is no description. 388 00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:31,960 Why? Because the application owners 389 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,160 hate to contribute to description. 390 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,480 So imagine that in our platform you allow the application 391 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,880 manager to upload their spreadsheet, their manual, the 392 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,000 document where already have sent 10s of time, what that 393 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:52,480 entitlement does and our system takes it and populate the data 394 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,280 and that enriches semantically the description without you to 395 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,840 wait a month and probably spend the under €50,000 of process 396 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:08,800 consulting and upload of data. So this is the simplest 397 00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:12,800 instruction, one of the simplest example of instructing the 398 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,760 system to do something in natural language. 399 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,400 Just upload a file name, description and the system 400 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,720 crunches and Prisma like a human. 401 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,160 You give that and say, all right, got it, we're going to do 402 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,800 it. The other example of a security 403 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,960 policy is probably on the more complex side of distracting it. 404 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,160 All these instructions in natural language are basically 405 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:42,440 something that we funnel into our identity brain and it does 406 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,560 the reasoning, combining these instructions with your data and 407 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,400 your data coming from your legacy data. 408 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,640 OK, there's no magic here. It's reasoning on data. 409 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,680 Data is oil. And that's why we take your 410 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,640 existing data and we are able to amend them with reasoning. 411 00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:06,280 And the two examples I I gave are just a very, you know, 2 412 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,280 simple examples of what we mean by configuring the system. 413 00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:14,080 Yeah, the benefits are. Sorry, I think that's that 414 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,760 second simple example. I mean, you can make a business 415 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,600 case just on that. We need to do a data cleanup 416 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:25,720 because you know, our our roles are meaningless. 417 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,160 I'm just going to go and look at all of our roles that we have 418 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,560 all of our entitlements and I'm going to have AI help me put 419 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,680 together descriptions. And rather than asking you for a 420 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,840 six month project to go through each one and go back to the 421 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,680 business owner and ask him what is this? 422 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,880 And he says he doesn't know. And we go back and forth. 423 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,600 I'm going to have AI tried to figure it out and give me some 424 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,480 sample text I'm going to send to the business center and say this 425 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,600 yes or no, you know, or. You, you, you might not want 426 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,920 even to as the business owner. Business owner says, listen, I 427 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,480 have this 50 pages PDF which I wrote three years ago. 428 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,520 Nobody reads to it, but this has the magic of everything. 429 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,640 Now what we do through the digestion technique of LLM is to 430 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,840 say, all right, we are able to read the manual, distill a 431 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,040 description that fits into an entitlement readable on screen, 432 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,960 and maybe do other magic, something like I'm an auditor, 433 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,560 explain me that permission with my language. 434 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,760 No, I, I'm the IM administrator. Explain me with a broader 435 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,040 description and give me more technical background. 436 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,080 You're right, honestly, today sometimes we start with, you 437 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,840 know, we can do magic here and there. 438 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,080 There's a lot of value in augmenting cementing description 439 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:57,360 of permission job titles roles because once they are described 440 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:03,480 properly, LLM can reason on it. And that's the very simple and 441 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,640 you're right, there are clients that are just mesmerized by the 442 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,480 idea that you can generate description, summarize 443 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,480 description out of manuals that have been sitting there for 444 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,080 ages. And then they will start 445 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,360 thinking the magic they can do on policy and securities. 446 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,640 We do it today. Sometimes you're limiting our 447 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,160 capability because they say do nice to be true. 448 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,000 Go one step at a time. Yeah. 449 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,800 I mean, you know, the thing that comes to my mind is that all the 450 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,600 things that excited me, that I talked about, the way you just 451 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,520 talked about there with the manual, those things should all 452 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,320 be done manually. Hurry, we can go through them 453 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,520 and figure it out. But why spend hours on these 454 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,880 things when you could potentially do them in minutes 455 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,320 and offloaded to the large language model to figure out? 456 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,040 I mean, you go onto the web and you're thinking I'm going to 457 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,720 research something the old way to do it. 458 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,840 You start clicking through links and try to find what you where 459 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,400 you can find good information. Now the first thing you get back 460 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:18,800 is the summary answer right in Google that kind of like lays it 461 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,440 out for you. So why wouldn't you want to 462 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,400 bring that kind of horsepower to your IGA system as well? 463 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,760 I kind of feel like it's inevitable, right? 464 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,280 It is going to happen and and I think what you're here to say 465 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,600 today is that you can have you can have it now. 466 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:44,080 I think this is a lot of this about outcomes, right? 467 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:51,080 You need to be able to make your system do certain things that 468 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,160 you you want to achieve least privilege, for example, you want 469 00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:00,120 to achieve putting people in, giving people the entitlements 470 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,000 that they need, nothing more, nothing less. 471 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,800 And I think the industry's approach for a long time was 472 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,320 role based access control. I you see it's shifting more 473 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,640 towards policy based access control. 474 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:19,400 But again, to me, where the rubber hits the road is like how 475 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:24,680 long does it take to get your system to do that and who can do 476 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,840 it? Who has the technical know how 477 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,840 to take the business outcomes that you want to drive and turn 478 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:36,320 them into policies that this system can apply to the data to 479 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:43,240 get the to drive those outcomes? So talking about roles or Arbach 480 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:48,600 or key back, I mean these are all the attempts to translate a 481 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,400 very simple problem that we have in our identity governance 482 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,880 domain. There are a lot of technical 483 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,760 entitlements out of the different applications and they 484 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,080 have all their cryptic names, no descriptions. 485 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,560 And then there is a plethora of business users that are speaking 486 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:11,440 just a different language. So ICP transaction XYZ means 487 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:18,400 placing orders for raw material on the user side. 488 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:26,840 For ages raw was an attempt to bridge the translation gap and 489 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,360 the principle of saying I'm going to aggregate permission 490 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,480 and give it the meaningful business name was the only way 491 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,840 available up until large language model. 492 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,920 The only issue out of that, and I think you know it well, we got 493 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,760 the paradox that now there are companies with more roles than 494 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,560 people and you say, OK, I don't get it. 495 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,240 Roles were supposed to be a fraction of people. 496 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,480 And now you, you you're sort of there's a role explosion that 497 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,560 cost me millions a year to consultants who are maintaining 498 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,960 reviewing that we want to kill that. 499 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:04,280 That's an old practice. If we say if you have a proper 500 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,280 description in every business object attaching to your 501 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,480 database in our, we call it temporary identity whereof and 502 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,000 there is description for entitlement for roles, proper 503 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,480 description. Now we can reason on that. 504 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,600 And do you need policy? I'll be honest with you less and 505 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:26,120 less because the system can say this is a guy from the IT 506 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,120 department. No, let's do the other way 507 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:29,840 around. This is a guy from the marketing 508 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:34,280 department and he has three permissions with a description 509 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,520 that means marketing, and then one description that means 510 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,920 privileged data administrator. It doesn't make any sense. 511 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,960 You know, it's like if you read it, it says, you know, it can't 512 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,040 be, it was a violation in principle. 513 00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:54,239 Is there a policy for that? No, that's one of the example of 514 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,560 something that we get out of our platform and we call it a 515 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,480 coherence check. If a description doesn't match 516 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:05,800 with your job function, I mean alert now that's not even a 517 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,280 policy. It's the coherence check without 518 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,840 any configuration in the old days. 519 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,520 Well, policy click rules here and there. 520 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,760 So we want to kill roles and we could want actually to kill any 521 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,480 in between layer who's trying to translate the word of 522 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,800 entitlement into a business language because we think it's 523 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,920 longer needed. It's a good transition topic to 524 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:35,560 move from administering the system to ask anything from a 525 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:41,280 user perspective. So kind of I'd say, what is this 526 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,720 capability and who would get access to it? 527 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:51,080 So our platform is designed to give access with visibility 528 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,560 controls and then I'll talk about that how we ensure 529 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,000 visibility or proper access restriction. 530 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,800 It can be anything, can be the business users, they are 531 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,600 typically lost and they always call an out desk and say I need 532 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,240 permission to do something. And by the way, I would love to 533 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:14,480 get everything that my friend has because that is actually 534 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,240 what I have to do. They express their problem 535 00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:20,880 without talking about entitlement and application 536 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,000 name. They don't say I need SAPI, need 537 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,120 Salesforce. They say I need to do what 538 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,560 Johnny's doing. Well, mine is that stuff that 539 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,320 he's doing because, you know, I don't have the permission. 540 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,680 That's the way it expressed it. So the primary persona that is 541 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,200 benefit from that simplification are the thousands of business 542 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:45,040 users that today are complaining that these systems are complex, 543 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,080 that the entitlement doesn't speak the language. 544 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,800 And then you know what they do? They just call the app best they 545 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,760 call the application owners or in the case of access 546 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,400 recertification, they say they just say, OK, click, click, 547 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:57,280 click. Who cares? 548 00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,800 I don't understand it. Get get it off my back. 549 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,640 So business user are the primary benefit of that auditors. 550 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,480 If you think about how much time auditors are asking, tell me 551 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,080 about this, tell me about that. I want a report and you have 552 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,480 these poor IM administrator folds that they need every day 553 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:19,800 to strike data to create a new report, new columns, new stuff. 554 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,120 This stuff is gone. You say, dear auditor, that's my 555 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,760 system. Ask any question and also they 556 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,960 might the auditor must say let me check if this violation took 557 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,440 place in the past. So auditor risk manager, 558 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,600 security people having to control the posture are the, I 559 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,960 would say the secondary benefit beneficiaries of this. 560 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,840 But the reality also traditional administrator, once they see how 561 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:51,000 to create a security policy, they will say, wow, I'm going to 562 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,320 jump on it because instead of waiting a month and spending, 563 00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,000 you know, and avalanche of money, I can do it myself. 564 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,320 It's my PDF, it's written properly. 565 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,920 And in fact, we say the PDF, the natural language is the new 566 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,480 code. And I think that clients and 567 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,080 consultants will have to pay more attention to what they 568 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,480 write in the documents because they will write get it to the 569 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:24,400 reasoning, you know, cycle. So, so that's the beneficial 570 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,800 again, business user auditors for sure. 571 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:33,200 These are the two audiences that are screaming for just asking 572 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,040 things in their language and the system to adapt and understand 573 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,840 their language instead of adding the other way around where you 574 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,440 need to make sure that you ask things in the way that the 575 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,440 system understand. So. 576 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:51,120 So is your moon going to be smart enough to say, OK, here 577 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:57,080 comes Jim and he is a business user and he can do XY and Z, but 578 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:02,520 here's Andrea, he's the System Administrator and he can do 579 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:11,400 everything A through Z. How will it know to you know to 580 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,880 restrict that? Does it leverage the permissions 581 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,280 that were set up in the legacy or is this something you train 582 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,640 the system on? No, there is no training, and 583 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,600 that's an important remark to make. 584 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,520 There is no training learning period. 585 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,560 With our software, you plug into your data and in two minutes 586 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,760 you're able to inquire them in nature or language and give 587 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,800 natural language instruction. So how do we ensure that the 588 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,880 right people are seeing the right data and asking the right 589 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,960 question? And I'll tell you more, we also 590 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:49,600 need to make sure that tricky questions are blocked. 591 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:55,760 So what are the attributes that we use to segment the visibility 592 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,640 on data? And what I mean by data, I mean 593 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,120 your IGA data that might be sitting on save point. 594 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:07,040 And also how do you ensure that some questions like risk 595 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,400 checking, security check type of questions, a business user can't 596 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,120 test them? We had to develop what we call 597 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:21,520 an LLN firewall, which is essentially is an Ln model that 598 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:28,920 does just the tasks of, you know, saying you can't, you 599 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,400 can't ask this question or yes, you can ask this question, but 600 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,440 just on the data, you're the finance department, you go 601 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:40,120 there, you go here. So we call it LM firewall. 602 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:44,160 And it's a crucial component for ensuring again, not just 603 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,680 visibility of data, but now we're asking questions. 604 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,520 So we need to make sure that we block some type of question. 605 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:57,040 And what I mean by some type is that the model can understand 606 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:02,280 that you're asking a question about is John violating the 607 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,920 least privileged policy? He understand that the part the 608 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:12,400 question is about risk violation and the system can be configured 609 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:17,920 again in natural language to say if the guy's a business user, 610 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:19,640 then he can't test that question. 611 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,920 Where do we take these attributes out of the IGA data? 612 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,520 Because there, there is always the job function, the department 613 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:34,080 we can augment, you know, the tagging, but essentially the LLM 614 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,560 firewall resonates on the attributes that we take out of 615 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:42,360 this Eastern legacy. Yeah, that's important. 616 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,880 I'd love to see kind of how that works in action. 617 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:50,040 And I want to remind people that if they are interested in 618 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,920 everything we've been talking about, they want to see a demo, 619 00:41:54,280 --> 00:42:04,960 go to Yamones dot AI/ID A/C. It's IAMONES dot AI/IDC and got 620 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,200 a code on there to get a discount, but I'm sure they'd be 621 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,040 more than happy to spend some one-on-one time with you and set 622 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:17,000 up a demo. I think this is all really 623 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,840 great. One thing that I I kind of felt 624 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:25,720 all along because when I look at large language model technology, 625 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,880 I kind of feel like the back end is a big piece of that. 626 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:34,720 It's a graph database. Am I under something or is that 627 00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:37,840 just not as important as I'm making out to be? 628 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,840 So the word graph in the word of AI comes out very often. 629 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,040 So in the way we what we mean by graph. 630 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:52,400 So where we store the data coming out of legacy system, we 631 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:58,960 call it temporal identity graph. Why graph and why temporal 632 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,920 graph? Because it's a design. 633 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:07,120 The entities are users, account permissions are notes, and then 634 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,600 there are relationships. OK, like a user has been 635 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,200 assigned a permission. No, it's been revoked. 636 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,200 So all these are connections pretty much like a LinkedIn 637 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:22,200 network or an X type of you know, I follow that person that 638 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:30,280 has disinterest and stuff. One of the reason why graph is 639 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:35,080 important, it's not much today on the LLM space because 640 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,960 actually the data could be sitting in any database. 641 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,920 You query them, you'll treat the data as a text and the LLM 642 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,400 reasons on the output of the query to a database. 643 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:51,920 The value of why we have designed the data model to be a 644 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:58,000 graph model, it's not for now, it's for the next AI ingredient 645 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,240 we will be adding, which is not even on the website because we 646 00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:03,440 didn't want to sound too foolish. 647 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,200 But you know, that's a bit of a road map. 648 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,200 We're going to use another deep learning neural network model, 649 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,760 which is not LLM. It's called temporal graph 650 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:18,000 network and it does good prediction on an on a, on a time 651 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,240 evolving graph. What is prediction for? 652 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,280 Well, this permission might be useful for that person. 653 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,840 This permission it's likely to be added and that could be a 654 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,760 risk as it happened for the other guy. 655 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,760 So in order to make prediction on a on a time evolving graph 656 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:41,680 model, LLMS are not good. You need another AI ingredients, 657 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:46,520 another sub domain or model out of this complicated word that 658 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:52,240 too often people just refer to it as AIAI is an archipelagos of 659 00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:56,720 models and you need to pick what suits best to your needs and 660 00:44:56,720 --> 00:45:00,840 that's why you don't find much AI buzz worthy into our 661 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,120 communication. You saved me from asking a 662 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,240 question about the future, so we can put that off the side. 663 00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:11,880 It sounds like the temporal. What did you call again? 664 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:16,880 Temporal. It's temporal identity Roth a 665 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:18,840 time of. It's basically because we store 666 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,520 a timeline of information. OK. 667 00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:27,080 So that's where you're going. I did want to talk a little bit 668 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:34,240 about, you know you talked earlier about the Yamon's sits 669 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:41,040 as a enhancer to the existing identity infrastructure. 670 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,920 So I think that's kind of key from a infrastructure standpoint 671 00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:48,920 or from a starting off standpoint. 672 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:54,200 So if I say, all right, this is something I'm interested in, 673 00:45:54,200 --> 00:46:01,120 they go to the website, your moans dot AI slash IDAC to get 674 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,800 the demo, decide to buy it, then what? 675 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,120 They start the one year project to implement it. 676 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:14,360 Now it starts 5 to 35 minutes project and it works this way. 677 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,440 We have a piece of software which is non AI. 678 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,760 It's called the identity Gateway and it connects to your data 679 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,160 source. If it's a standard one like say 680 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:30,000 .1 identity and so forth, we have prefined integrations. 681 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:35,480 What that does, it takes the data out of your system and also 682 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,360 start tracking, change events and store them into our temporal 683 00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,640 identity graph. What I mean by our doesn't mean 684 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,880 that it has to be on our cloud can be even hosted on your 685 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:55,600 premises or your AWS Azure region that normalizing the data 686 00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:00,960 takes 30 minutes. As long as you plug into your 687 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:05,120 system. Then the only other thing you 688 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:09,920 have to do is go on our, you know, actual platform that 689 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:14,080 you're going to get through the IDIDAC page and you activate 690 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:19,240 your tenant 30 seconds and then get tenant will point to your 691 00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:22,520 temporal density graph. So All in all, if you want to 692 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:27,240 add conversational capabilities of inquiring your data, it takes 693 00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:31,280 30 minutes, one hour depending on how much time you take to to 694 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,760 connect to your environment. And then if you want to start 695 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,800 adding instructions, maybe takes another one hour just to 696 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,240 practice depending on the type of instruction you want to 697 00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:43,880 build. Data enrichment, super simple. 698 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,560 You might already have APDF somewhere that you know as that 699 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,640 description. You upload it in the system and 700 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,520 we do the magic of understanding and extending your data. 701 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,480 For large enterprise, I'm assuming they they normally 702 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,600 start with a pre production environment, test things out 703 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:07,000 there, make sure that they feel like OK, we're safe and then 704 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,800 move it into production and or then implement it into their 705 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:15,160 production environment. Yeah, technically we start the 706 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,040 pilot, call it whatever you want. 707 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,600 We basically tap into non production data that might be 708 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,560 also anonymized or a subset over there, you know, large chain of 709 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,840 identities. They subscribe to the tenant and 710 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:33,600 we point the our SAS platform to that database that contains the 711 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,360 data taken from the non production. 712 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,000 And the day they switch it there, we basically point the 713 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:43,720 reasoning to the database that has the copy, so to say, out of 714 00:48:43,720 --> 00:48:44,800 their production. Data. 715 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:49,280 So you have existing customers, yes. 716 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:50,960 What are you hearing back from them? 717 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,800 What are the benefits? And then how do they gauge their 718 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,840 success? Well, you know at the moment 719 00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,360 what the clients are looking, especially the IM administrator 720 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,840 people, they're just trying to get their business users off 721 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,440 their back. So now the measurement of 722 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,840 success is given to you, the business user AUI where they 723 00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:17,200 just ask questions and they just get an answer without having to 724 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,880 call the IM administrator that has to waste time or the 725 00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:25,360 application owners to try to translate those questions they 726 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,360 have into into the right permission that might look into 727 00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,720 the catalog. So today it's all about 728 00:49:31,720 --> 00:49:33,680 convenience. And if you think about the 729 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:38,400 reporting issue, so imagine today you have your business 730 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:42,840 user and they want a report. Well, if it's not there, you 731 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,280 have to create it. And then they say, well, I want 732 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:50,440 that extra column and you have to add that extra column with 733 00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,600 us. You say give me the list of 734 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,360 permission belong to the finance department, Boom. 735 00:49:57,240 --> 00:50:01,360 Well, add me the department column, boom. 736 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,480 Please reply in German because I have subsidiary in Germany. 737 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:12,440 Oh period. So we the business user benefits 738 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,440 from that because it's just just ask. 739 00:50:15,240 --> 00:50:20,800 But the IM administrator get all the bird and following all the 740 00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,000 requests out of business user for stupid things like an extra 741 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,560 report, an extra column, an extra language that's all gone. 742 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,760 There's no longer the multi language UI is gone with large 743 00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:34,760 average model in our system. We also make fun, we ask 744 00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:39,240 questions in local dialects in Italy and Germany and the system 745 00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:42,280 replies in the local dialect, which makes the demo very funny. 746 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:47,040 But think about the company that has, you know, you know, our 747 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,760 client in US, the first one who was on board. 748 00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:55,520 I think they have well Spanish, English and few European 749 00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:59,320 countries languages. How do you maintain a multi UI 750 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,360 into Saypoint? That's what they have. 751 00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,280 Well, it costs for us, it's gone. 752 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,840 So that's the biggest benefit today that clients are looking 753 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,520 OK, get the business users out that they are back giving them 754 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,080 something easy that they can play with. 755 00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,280 Yeah, that's a benefit I didn't even think about. 756 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:21,800 Like I, I guess I intuitively knew when you're talking about 757 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,400 like language support for all these different languages, like, 758 00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:29,360 Oh yeah, well, AI has already taken care of that for you of 759 00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,400 like the open AI model. And so if you're taking that 760 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,520 model and you're applying it, then you get it. 761 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:42,000 But now business benefit, if you have been having to maintain UIS 762 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,480 the old way and multiple languages, I mean, that's no 763 00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:49,240 longer just have a problem, figures out who the person is, 764 00:51:49,720 --> 00:51:54,360 sends them, you know, and they start asking questions in the 765 00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,320 language that they know and it understands the questions. 766 00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:01,720 I mean, that feels like a revolutionary impact. 767 00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:04,600 I'm going to ask you a little bit of a fun question now 768 00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:09,680 because this, this, I mean, I'm feeling the benefit, but I'm 769 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:18,200 also used to using like AI for trying to research things and 770 00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:23,640 then getting answers that you'd later find out are made-up 771 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:28,120 hallucinations, if you will. Do you suffer from 772 00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:33,480 hallucinations with your moans? The beginning, 12 months ago, 773 00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,840 the company started the technology well before we 774 00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:38,880 founded the company. That was April last year. 775 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:43,120 Yeah, a lot. At the beginning we said, well, 776 00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,480 LLM will do magic. So we take data out of the IGA 777 00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:50,000 legacy data, and we'll give a bunch of instructions, throw 778 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,720 everything there, and the system will get it. 779 00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:56,560 No way, no way. Maybe we get there one day, but 780 00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:00,640 not in the coming years. So in order to prevent 781 00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,560 hallucinations because we were giving too much information, we 782 00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:10,160 said, well, let's make like the humans do just tell everybody to 783 00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,640 you have a bunch of people and you say I pick you because 784 00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,280 you're very good in reasoning on sets of the evaluation. 785 00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,640 You're very good in relating natural language to data 786 00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:20,640 retrieval query from the database. 787 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,880 And each one is a specific task. And with that street guard, 788 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,120 guard rail, a lot of context and task specific. 789 00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,240 We have avoided evolutionation. Yeah, not avoided. 790 00:53:33,240 --> 00:53:36,800 I mean it's like bugs. You always have a minority of 791 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:41,720 illucinations, but you know, at the beginning it was the problem 792 00:53:41,720 --> 00:53:45,600 now or it's happens, you know, one time every six months. 793 00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,200 OK. And then it's easy to fix 794 00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:53,080 because it's like adding extra context and eventually making 795 00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:59,000 the guard rail narrower. So this practice of taking the 796 00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:03,640 big elephant and eating it bite by bite is going to become the 797 00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,440 standard when you develop business software application. 798 00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:11,480 And it's essentially if you look at legacy or pre AI software 799 00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:16,120 stacks, components of code that does components of business 800 00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:21,080 logic, the new AI stack, it's those business components of 801 00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:26,560 business logic are nothing more than instructions or prompts, 802 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:31,960 guardrails given to an LLM. And what I mean by LLM, you know 803 00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:36,120 as we work across LLM, so we're not tied to a specific one, 804 00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,040 although today we use a combination of Open AI and 805 00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:46,120 Anthropic Sony. But you know, we are going to 806 00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,720 replace some tasks with some other LLM. 807 00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,920 Why we do that? Because these horizontal LMS, 808 00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:56,880 they improve and they become cheaper and faster. 809 00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:03,680 So, but Long story short, the way to prevent hallucination is 810 00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:09,320 you give very guided restriction to Mini LLM, each performing a 811 00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:12,080 single task within what we call the identity brain. 812 00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,720 And the funny note is the guy who has developed that is my 813 00:55:15,720 --> 00:55:19,600 fellow shareholder head of AI. He's 24. 814 00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,880 He has no experience whatsoever to suffer. 815 00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:24,840 And actually that's what I wanted. 816 00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,960 Otherwise they just go back complaining about the good old 817 00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,920 days where you can programmatically do everything. 818 00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:36,040 Yeah, but it takes six months. Interesting stuff. 819 00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:41,080 Well Andrea, this has been a really interesting episode. 820 00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:50,880 I want to remind people again Yamones, I AM ones dot AI/ID A/C 821 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:57,240 For more information to take the next step in exploration on this 822 00:55:57,240 --> 00:55:58,720 journey. There's also going to be a lot 823 00:55:58,720 --> 00:56:05,720 of links in the show notes, including the link to that PCU 824 00:56:05,720 --> 00:56:09,920 that you talked about with Satya Nadella, the AI agents. 825 00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:13,520 I think that's absolutely fascinating, and I think people 826 00:56:13,720 --> 00:56:18,080 can easily go down a rabbit hole with the whole AI agents and how 827 00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:19,760 things are going to be in the future. 828 00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,200 Our tradition on the show is to end things with a later note. 829 00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,040 Andrea, you're in Italy, You're an Italian. 830 00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:30,320 Where? What city are you in now, or 831 00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:32,520 what are you closest to that we made know? 832 00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:37,280 Close to Bologna, which is the city of Ducati, Ferrari, 833 00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:39,920 Lamborghini. So I live in the mechanical 834 00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,880 valley. So as a softer guy, I'm in a 835 00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,120 beautiful place, but not the right one typically. 836 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:49,880 Actually I live nearby, so I live in a town called Imola. 837 00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:55,280 It's spelled IMOLA, which is famous for the F1 racetrack. 838 00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,840 There are two in Italy, one is Monza near Milan and the other 839 00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:03,600 one is here in my hometown Imola, so north of Italy, close 840 00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:05,080 to Bologna. Simple. 841 00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:11,120 OK, so here's my question for our later note is I I love 842 00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,600 travel talking with you, you love travel. 843 00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,120 It'll trip to Italy is on my bucket list. 844 00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,320 I probably would go somewhere between one week and two weeks 845 00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,920 long. How would how should I spend 846 00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,040 that time? I want to tell you, of course I 847 00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:30,520 want to eat good food. I mean, that's going to be a 848 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:35,840 mainstay and drink good wine and but I also want to not just go 849 00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,520 to one place and sit there for the whole time. 850 00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:41,680 I want to bounce around and really have the Italian 851 00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:43,800 experience. So what do you recommend? 852 00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,400 Well, first, I wouldn't recommend you to visit the big 853 00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,040 city because that's where you get the the crappy food. 854 00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,800 So if you're looking for good food and good wine, don't go to 855 00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,400 Milan, you know, maybe come to Bologna, the main city. 856 00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,200 Don't go to Florence, go to don't go to Venice, don't go to 857 00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,760 Rome, go in the countryside. Then you might decide whether to 858 00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:08,720 experience more of a northern experience of Italy, which means 859 00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:12,520 just in the upwards Venetopia Monta, I mean the upper part 860 00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:17,360 where the cuisine is different. Or go to the South like Sicily, 861 00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:21,560 Pulia or around Naples. But definitely if you want to 862 00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,560 enjoy good food, don't go to the picturial cities because you 863 00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:29,080 know, you get average or well below average. 864 00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:34,640 So there are a lot of places. Italy, it's food experience 865 00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:37,000 everywhere. And you know when you plan to 866 00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:40,640 come get you a ring and you might come and visit here. 867 00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:44,720 I mean, there are nice places here where I live and good food, 868 00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:46,880 good wine. Actually, the region, the part 869 00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:50,960 of the country where I live, Emilia, Romania, it's known for, 870 00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:55,400 you know, the prosciutto, and it's good everywhere. 871 00:58:55,400 --> 00:59:00,320 But here we are sort of well known for balsamic vinegar, for 872 00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,880 example. So I'd be your guide here, no 873 00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:05,680 worries. That sounds great. 874 00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:11,920 What time of year should I come? Well, it's generally very hot in 875 00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,200 the summer. So I would tell you skip July 876 00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:17,320 and August. October is phenomenal. 877 00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:20,040 April, March is phenomenal as well. 878 00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:24,360 But you know, I tell you what this year has been specifically, 879 00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:28,520 we'll say harsh winter, not as harsh as upstate New York, but 880 00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,400 you know, not the mild one we used to know. 881 00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:35,480 But typically if you want to come to Italy over January, 882 00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:39,200 February, that's phenomenal. Most of the tourists are not 883 00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,680 here. So again, really off the beaten 884 00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:46,880 track, January, February, right after Christmas or otherwise you 885 00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,080 come October, late September and that's phenomenal. 886 00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,320 That sounds like great advice. I'm very excited for when I make 887 00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,520 that trip. And you will be you and my 888 00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:58,120 friend. Our mutual friend Marco will be 889 00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:03,240 the first people I tap for sharpening the pencil on the 890 01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:05,280 itinerary. We love very close. 891 01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:09,320 Yeah, I I very much appreciate the advice and very much 892 01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:15,040 appreciate your time today. Just want to go over a couple of 893 01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:19,720 things, which is again, yamones.com or, I'm sorry, 894 01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:26,520 yamones dot AI slash idac. You can also visit our website, 895 01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:31,720 idacpodcast.com and you can watch all of our episodes on 896 01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:36,960 idacpodcast.tv. Thank you everyone for listening 897 01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:39,960 or watching and we'll catch you all on the next one. 898 01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:43,840 Bye, bye. You've been listening to 899 01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:47,760 Identity at the Center. We hope you've enjoyed the show. 900 01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:52,040 Make sure to like rate and review and we'll be back soon. 901 01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,600 But in the meantime, hit the website at 902 01:00:54,600 --> 01:01:00,960 identity@thecenter.com. See you next time on Identity at 903 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:01,880 the Center.