1 00:00:05,300 --> 00:00:10,800 This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with I 2 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:18,000 am this is the go-to podcast. Now your host Jim McDonald and 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:23,500 Jeff Stedman Welcome to the idea of Center podcast I'm Jeff. 4 00:00:23,500 --> 00:00:24,500 And that's Jim. Hey, Jim. 5 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,100 Hey, Jeff, how are you? Oh no, that's bad yourself doing 6 00:00:27,100 --> 00:00:29,300 great, man. The keynote sessions were great 7 00:00:29,300 --> 00:00:33,300 this morning. Healthy dose of passkeys with 8 00:00:33,300 --> 00:00:35,100 our friend. Andrew shaky are from the Fido 9 00:00:35,100 --> 00:00:38,800 Alliance. I did want to mention, we are at 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,000 identity versus recording. So the month of June is pretty 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,800 much going to be the sessions that we record here this week 12 00:00:46,300 --> 00:00:49,000 and yeah, let's get it going, man. 13 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,100 Yeah, so the first of these, Relations that were actually 14 00:00:52,100 --> 00:00:54,700 second, I should say. We're, we did our open Fest it 15 00:00:54,700 --> 00:00:57,600 opening festivities, kind of thing last night. 16 00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:59,100 Turned out pretty well. I'm kind of Happy the way that 17 00:00:59,100 --> 00:01:01,400 worked out. And now we have a conversation 18 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,500 with fine gentleman from one Cosmos. 19 00:01:03,500 --> 00:01:06,900 We've got Jose finale of who's the chief operating officer for 20 00:01:06,900 --> 00:01:08,700 one Cosmo. So we've got old friend of the 21 00:01:08,700 --> 00:01:11,400 show. Not that, he's old Mike Engel 22 00:01:11,700 --> 00:01:13,700 Chief strategy officer for one Cosmos. 23 00:01:13,900 --> 00:01:16,400 Welcome back to the show. Mike and welcome to the show for 24 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:17,900 the first time because Ava, how are you? 25 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:19,300 How are you doing today? It was Ava. 26 00:01:19,900 --> 00:01:21,100 Thank you. Thanks for inviting. 27 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,900 This is my first time longtime listener first-time on the show 28 00:01:24,900 --> 00:01:27,800 so I'm excited, right? I did my little happy dance as 29 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:29,700 well. Well we're excited to have you 30 00:01:29,700 --> 00:01:31,100 here for sure. We're going to get your origin 31 00:01:31,100 --> 00:01:33,500 story. Mike, you've been here before 32 00:01:33,500 --> 00:01:36,000 you were with us and episode. Well, a few episodes, this 33 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,700 point, there was one that I think Jim you wanted to 34 00:01:38,700 --> 00:01:41,100 highlight was episode number 96, is that right? 35 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,300 Yeah. Absolute 96 you know Mike was on 36 00:01:44,300 --> 00:01:50,100 the just talking about kind of pastoralists and identity 37 00:01:50,100 --> 00:01:52,500 proofing. There's another episode where 38 00:01:52,500 --> 00:01:56,100 you were talking about your role on 1414 Ventures, but do want to 39 00:01:56,100 --> 00:01:58,500 highlight that because we're going to go back to past for 40 00:01:58,500 --> 00:02:02,000 Alyssa and identity verification and talk about that as kind of 41 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,500 our main topic today. Yeah and so we're having a 42 00:02:05,508 --> 00:02:07,800 conversation Mike we already know your origin story. 43 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,699 Will Point people back to that episode so we can get right to. 44 00:02:10,708 --> 00:02:13,200 It has a flaw you're on the hot seat now because it's your first 45 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,800 time here tradition is that we learn people's identity origin 46 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,600 story when they join us with the first time. 47 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,600 So what is your origin story when it Comes to I am. 48 00:02:22,700 --> 00:02:25,900 Is it something that you chose, or did it Choose You? 49 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:33,400 So I did choose I am and but I have to be honest, I didn't know 50 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,100 the extent of what I was choosing. 51 00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:42,900 So my first job was out of college and I was employed as an 52 00:02:42,900 --> 00:02:46,000 admin. I was running back jobs. 53 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,100 Running endpoint management software that time. 54 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,600 CEOs, pretty big right on endpoint management. 55 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,800 So I was, you know, for about a year, I was doing that. 56 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,900 And then there was an opportunity that came in with 57 00:03:00,300 --> 00:03:03,300 the great socks for for compliance and said, don't worry 58 00:03:03,300 --> 00:03:06,700 about these batch scripts. All you have to do is get these 59 00:03:06,700 --> 00:03:10,300 reports of access for users, you know, you circulate it with 60 00:03:10,300 --> 00:03:13,600 different managers and tell them that you know, do you is it 61 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:14,300 right? Is it not wrong? 62 00:03:14,300 --> 00:03:17,800 Is it that sounds easy? That sounds exciting and that 63 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,300 was my first foray into it so I chose and then you know, one 64 00:03:21,300 --> 00:03:25,500 thing led to another and how do you get the access? 65 00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:28,500 How do you manage the access? And now look back then. 66 00:03:28,700 --> 00:03:31,400 So I've never heard the words, great and socks in the same 67 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,200 sentence before and your Chief Operating Officer. 68 00:03:35,500 --> 00:03:36,900 One of the things that fascinates me about this 69 00:03:36,900 --> 00:03:39,300 business are titles and I'm curious. 70 00:03:39,300 --> 00:03:42,800 What does a chief operating officer do for an identity 71 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,800 company? Like one Cosmos, nutshell, right 72 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,800 hand box to the left hand but mainly making sure that you 73 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,800 know, as organizations and especially startups, we tend to 74 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:58,700 grow pretty rapidly and Sometimes our most of the time. 75 00:03:58,700 --> 00:04:00,900 So there's a lot of chaos right in rapidly growing 76 00:04:00,900 --> 00:04:03,700 organizations. So how do you try to keep that 77 00:04:03,700 --> 00:04:07,100 in order? How do you make sure that every 78 00:04:07,100 --> 00:04:11,400 function, every department is going towards the overall vision 79 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,700 of the company and making sure that that particular vision is 80 00:04:14,700 --> 00:04:18,000 also very clear with, you know, every Department, every member 81 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,100 Mike. I think, for people who aren't 82 00:04:21,100 --> 00:04:23,000 familiar with one Cosmos, I know you have kind of given the 83 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,700 should be able for, but what's the like the 30 second or maybe 84 00:04:26,900 --> 00:04:29,500 Give you 60 seconds to give us the elevator pitch. 85 00:04:29,500 --> 00:04:31,600 What is one Cosmos do? What's the problem you guys 86 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,600 self? Yeah, well, starting with the 87 00:04:33,700 --> 00:04:37,100 Genesis story and including the name Cosmos is Greek for 88 00:04:37,100 --> 00:04:41,800 universe, and idea is someday, we will have one identity in the 89 00:04:41,808 --> 00:04:45,100 entire universe, right? So when Ilan lands that 90 00:04:45,300 --> 00:04:48,000 spaceship on Mars, you'll use your identity to prove who you 91 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,300 are and get into the little bubble that he builds. 92 00:04:51,100 --> 00:04:53,400 And so, there's a couple standards that we all know and 93 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:57,900 love that we've talked about on the show quite a bit and We're 94 00:04:57,900 --> 00:04:59,800 going to talk about those here today, but that was the 95 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:01,800 principal. The company is, let's figure out 96 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,900 one way to prove who you are and use that everywhere you have to 97 00:05:05,900 --> 00:05:10,000 engage online. Does a great analogy, Mike this 98 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,300 week we're focusing on the future of identity and we came 99 00:05:13,300 --> 00:05:16,300 up with this term goes to Adamas week, right? 100 00:05:16,300 --> 00:05:18,900 We want to talk about how things are going to be in the future 101 00:05:19,100 --> 00:05:22,100 and one of the topics that you're hearing a lot about it. 102 00:05:22,100 --> 00:05:26,200 I Denver's this week, Andre brought it up in his keynote 103 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,100 yesterday. Was this idea of like 104 00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:35,000 user-centric user managed identity is going to replace the 105 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,700 corporate ID P managed identity in the future, right? 106 00:05:39,700 --> 00:05:43,000 So people are going to have control over their identity, 107 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,200 that's going to change the game. So mix that in with kind of the 108 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:51,000 buzz terms of the industry self Sovereign identity and 109 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:52,900 decentralized. Identity from the tip of 110 00:05:52,900 --> 00:05:56,700 everyone's tongue and kind of want to get your ideas. 111 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,200 Diaz and your thoughts on, you know, how reality how real is 112 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:02,800 that? What's it going to be like, in 113 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,300 the future? Where we at today to start us 114 00:06:06,300 --> 00:06:09,400 off, but where do you see it for five years down the road? 115 00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:14,000 Well, I'll answer your question with a question when you get 116 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,700 pulled over by a State Trooper, not that you ever have but 117 00:06:16,700 --> 00:06:19,800 hypothetically or you go up to the TSA checkpoint. 118 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,100 How do you prove who you are today? 119 00:06:21,900 --> 00:06:25,100 TSA checkpoint. Yeah it's both of the plastic 120 00:06:25,100 --> 00:06:28,500 card as guards a credential And they look at your face and look 121 00:06:28,500 --> 00:06:32,800 at the credential and say they match and we know that we can do 122 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,700 that online. And I'd like to spend some time 123 00:06:35,700 --> 00:06:39,400 diving into the mechanics of that and the privacy of that. 124 00:06:39,500 --> 00:06:44,000 As we as we have this discussion today but the future of identity 125 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,700 must involve Biometrics and I'm not just talking about Touch ID 126 00:06:47,700 --> 00:06:50,200 and face ID, right? I could have five fingerprints 127 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,800 on my iPhone 8 that could be long to anybody but real 128 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:55,500 Biometrics so that state trooper. 129 00:06:55,500 --> 00:06:58,100 Looks you in the face. You need to do that digitally as 130 00:06:58,100 --> 00:07:00,300 well and there's ways to do it that are safe. 131 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,800 But of course, we have had a number of setbacks from a PR 132 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,300 perspective with State legislation like Peppa if you're 133 00:07:08,300 --> 00:07:11,700 familiar with the Illinois law suits that are going on, that 134 00:07:11,700 --> 00:07:14,500 are setting us back things that happen with the IRS etcetera. 135 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,900 So the future is a combination of privacy Biometrics and you 136 00:07:19,900 --> 00:07:23,400 mentioned self, Sovereign the terms getting a little old 137 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,500 these, you know, it's like nobody knew really knew what it 138 00:07:25,500 --> 00:07:28,400 meant when it came out at you, Really, creating your own 139 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,200 identity. Well, it's user managed does the 140 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,200 term that I like to really use. If you're in control of it, 141 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,100 nobody else can use it. So, that brings up wallets and 142 00:07:38,100 --> 00:07:39,900 the ability to put a credential somewhere. 143 00:07:39,900 --> 00:07:41,800 Safe that we'll talk about here today as well. 144 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,600 Do you think three, four, five, maybe ten years down the road. 145 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,500 We don't carry physical will. You know, wallets are pocket 146 00:07:51,500 --> 00:07:55,700 anymore and I meant have, you know, plastic, driver's licenses 147 00:07:55,700 --> 00:08:01,100 that Everything is smart enabled and put on phones, is that only 148 00:08:01,100 --> 00:08:05,400 for people who are, you know, modern and use smartphones? 149 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,800 Where do you see us? Where is it? 150 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:13,900 What's the evolution look like? Yeah, as the older generation is 151 00:08:13,900 --> 00:08:15,900 not the primary user of Technology anymore. 152 00:08:15,900 --> 00:08:19,000 I'll try to say it nicely, right, you'll see. 153 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,600 Now everybody will have a device or be comfortable with using 154 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,300 Biometrics, right? If I tried getting my dad, you 155 00:08:26,308 --> 00:08:29,800 know, he's a 80 years old to use his phone to do something. 156 00:08:30,500 --> 00:08:34,700 It's really hard for him. So that generation will be less 157 00:08:34,700 --> 00:08:36,600 and less of the of the majority online. 158 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,100 And I think it must go to a digital form. 159 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:43,600 We can't then plastic is copyable, Right. 160 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,600 Forge documents are really hard to detect. 161 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,600 You have a, i that can now spoof all kinds of things. 162 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,200 So we have a lot of challenges we have to work with but it has 163 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,100 to go digital because of the bad guys know how to digitally 164 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:56,900 manipulate everything as well. So who's the father this 165 00:08:56,900 --> 00:09:01,200 questions for you? What's it going to take to make 166 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,800 this happen? You know what is it is just time 167 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,400 that it has to kind of percolate. 168 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,200 And then what are the big challenges order? 169 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,700 The big enemies to this happening. 170 00:09:11,700 --> 00:09:14,600 Maybe it's what Mike brought up there with, you know, just 171 00:09:15,500 --> 00:09:18,300 generational not ready. I mean, my father doesn't have a 172 00:09:18,308 --> 00:09:21,200 smartphone, you know, he's still using his flip phone. 173 00:09:22,500 --> 00:09:24,600 So what's it going to take to make this happen? 174 00:09:24,700 --> 00:09:26,200 Happen. You know, that Vision that Mike 175 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,200 just painted and what are the roadblocks or stumbles? 176 00:09:30,500 --> 00:09:34,200 So in some areas in some geographies, it's already 177 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,100 happening. Maybe not to the entire extent 178 00:09:38,100 --> 00:09:43,400 of the population. But for example, you mentioned, 179 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:48,100 you need to carry a wallet and in a lot of other geographies, 180 00:09:48,100 --> 00:09:51,000 everything is on your smartphone now, including a driver's 181 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,300 license. So one, big proponent of that 182 00:09:54,300 --> 00:09:59,500 has I mean the government's so I know that there are certain 183 00:09:59,500 --> 00:10:03,600 European countries India where you get a driver's license and a 184 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,800 copy of that onto your phone, you have your payments on to 185 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:13,500 your wallet as well. So one big proponent of that is 186 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,600 even your government issuing your credentials that is 187 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,400 consumable into your smart device and then over a period of 188 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,500 time that's going to be more encompassing. 189 00:10:24,700 --> 00:10:28,000 Now. And then, if you look at it, you 190 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,000 have to look at it with the, with the, with keeping your 191 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,800 customer identity, use cases. And then your Enterprise, I 192 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,200 think, Enterprise will be a little bit slower to it out, 193 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:40,600 just because there's more control that I need. 194 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,800 I need, you know, to have energy or credential, or a nadie 195 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,500 credential that I want to use to provision and account. 196 00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:54,000 But if I'm shopping online, if I am, you know, signing up for any 197 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:59,000 kind of a government service, I want the ease of, you know, 198 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,600 signing to go through the identity verification once, 199 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,700 right? And then use my wallet to sign 200 00:11:04,700 --> 00:11:08,100 up for multiple different services and then as a service 201 00:11:08,100 --> 00:11:11,900 provider on the consumer side, I also don't want to take on the 202 00:11:11,900 --> 00:11:15,500 liability of managing millions of different, you know, 203 00:11:15,500 --> 00:11:19,300 identities or counts. So if there is More of a common 204 00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:22,700 framework that is available. May be ready to essentially use 205 00:11:22,700 --> 00:11:26,100 that help. You understand the walls a 206 00:11:26,108 --> 00:11:29,100 little bit. So on my iPhone I've got a 207 00:11:29,108 --> 00:11:34,000 wallet is part of the IOS operating system organizes, you 208 00:11:34,008 --> 00:11:36,500 know, that you have got credit cards in it, so I can do Apple 209 00:11:36,500 --> 00:11:40,000 pay. I've also got all kinds of like 210 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,200 boarding passes and other stuff that ends up in the wall. 211 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:44,800 I've got Starbucks card in there. 212 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,600 Is that the same wallet that we're talking about? 213 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,400 Or is it going to be some proprietary software that I run, 214 00:11:51,900 --> 00:11:55,200 you know, download from the App Store and that's where I put my 215 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,500 digital credentials. Yeah, so today it is mode of 216 00:11:59,500 --> 00:12:02,400 proprietary software but the industry is going towards, you 217 00:12:02,408 --> 00:12:05,000 know, much more of an open wallet that you can use, which 218 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,300 is your wallet app into your iPhone. 219 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,000 And the idea is that every credential that you have, which 220 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,600 has been verified and the whole concept of a verifiable 221 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:21,000 credential that gets captured, Into your iPhone wallet, you can 222 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:26,000 then essentially use. So for an end user, the whole 223 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,500 notion needs to be that there is a in a credential that's been 224 00:12:28,500 --> 00:12:31,000 assigned to me that goes into my wallet. 225 00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:35,800 Let's say that's the driver's license or my certificate from a 226 00:12:35,808 --> 00:12:39,800 university, my employee record. And then I can use that I want 227 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,200 to touch on this wallet subject, because I don't know if it is 228 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,900 the same wallet because we have vendor lock-in now. 229 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,000 So if I want to change my identity, if I'm stuck, On iOS. 230 00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:54,700 How do I move to Android? If my wallet is a Apple wallet, 231 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,300 for example, and the same thing for vice versa, right? 232 00:12:56,300 --> 00:12:59,600 With and Andrea whether it's Google pay or something similar 233 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,500 to that or Samsung pay is, this may be a role where some of the 234 00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:05,900 password manager type Solutions, might be out there where they're 235 00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:10,600 creating their own wallets is it a separate Financial backed 236 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:15,000 wallet, for example, how do you see this wallet thing? 237 00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:16,600 Kind of playing out? Because I think it gets 238 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,000 confusing, it's okay. Well, We're talking about 239 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,400 getting rid of our physical wallet, but how many virtual or 240 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,200 digital wallets in my gonna start carrying around? 241 00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:27,200 Is that an app for each one? I guess. 242 00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:29,900 And maybe we grow into something or maybe we grow out of 243 00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:31,300 something. I'm not sure, but I'm curious. 244 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,100 Michael start with. Uh, where do you see wallets? 245 00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:36,200 Just, as a general going from a digital perspective. 246 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,500 Is it am, I am I going crazy here? 247 00:13:38,500 --> 00:13:40,400 Thinking like, oh my gosh, I'm going to have like, eight 248 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:41,800 different wallets for eight different things. 249 00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:45,700 No, it is messy from a standards perspective. 250 00:13:45,700 --> 00:13:50,500 So Apple has Created a way to digitize mobile, driver's 251 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:53,300 license in a couple States. But the only place you can use 252 00:13:53,300 --> 00:14:01,500 it is I think at the TSA and then you have Banks starting to 253 00:14:01,508 --> 00:14:03,300 create their own digital identity like you mentioned. 254 00:14:04,300 --> 00:14:07,400 So the viable players today that I see creating wallets globally. 255 00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:10,000 We have sing paths and some government-sponsored ones that 256 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,300 are just amazing. When you see how well the apps 257 00:14:12,300 --> 00:14:15,200 are done and how extensible they are here in the US. 258 00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:18,900 It's we're 20 years, we're going to be Is behind just like we 259 00:14:18,908 --> 00:14:20,800 were for the adoption of chip-and-pin. 260 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,300 How long did it take us to use a trusted credit card for 261 00:14:24,300 --> 00:14:27,500 in-person transactions that took Target getting hacked and they 262 00:14:27,508 --> 00:14:29,700 were doing it everywhere else around the world for ten years 263 00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:31,600 and they're looking at us around the world. 264 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,500 Be like, you guys are still using magstripe. 265 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,800 I can program that with a five dollar piece of equipment. 266 00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:41,500 So in my my opinion, the only entity that can issue a 267 00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:44,000 credential reliably about who you are in. 268 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,800 The physical world, is the government. 269 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,000 That's why we have driver's licenses and passports. 270 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,700 And until they figure out what they want to do, you're going to 271 00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:53,700 have all these tactical Solutions if Apple could 272 00:14:53,700 --> 00:14:57,100 digitize my driver's license and let it be used to open a new 273 00:14:57,300 --> 00:14:59,300 Saks Fifth Avenue shopping account. 274 00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:02,100 I'd do it in a heartbeat. So what everybody else? 275 00:15:03,100 --> 00:15:06,200 I don't know if they're not ready to tap into the states to 276 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,600 verify that and they don't want to take on the liability. 277 00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:11,500 I would think and how that's pretty slippery slope. 278 00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:16,300 So it's very messy right now. You have the mdl standard and in 279 00:15:16,300 --> 00:15:18,000 a verifiable credentials which are two. 280 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:23,500 Credential standards that are out there and it's just going to 281 00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:27,400 take time and market adoption timing is everything as they 282 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,800 say. So let's get into a little bit 283 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,300 about. I think the most important part 284 00:15:32,300 --> 00:15:35,100 behind the wallet is, how do you actually get the credential 285 00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:37,500 there and identity proofing in the first place? 286 00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:40,800 So, if I'm going to have a digital identity, some 287 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:45,500 organization needs to say, okay, we are giving you, this is a 288 00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:47,700 credential and is a few mentioned in India, for example, 289 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:49,700 right there. There is a couple versions 290 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,900 sounds like there's a physical document and a digital document 291 00:15:51,900 --> 00:15:54,200 goes along with that. So let's talk about identity 292 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,900 proofing. Where do you see this going in? 293 00:15:57,900 --> 00:16:03,100 The future is it multiple credential providers doing this? 294 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,200 Do you see something like Bank of America? 295 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,800 Does one thing Capital One does another US Bank doesn't other, 296 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,100 do you see maybe Consortium of financial services has like 297 00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:19,000 their provider versus government has other Education or medical 298 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,200 and things like that. I'd like to get into that a 299 00:16:21,208 --> 00:16:23,300 little bit and just kind of understand like where do you see 300 00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:26,300 that? That identity proofing concept 301 00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:29,500 going and maybe if we if you want to have anything else, you 302 00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:32,100 want to add to that feel free. So I'll tell you today. 303 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:36,000 The identity proofing is, is primarily meant to check the 304 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,400 authenticity of the user as well as your physical, the car, the 305 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,900 plastic card, this will evolve more. 306 00:16:43,900 --> 00:16:47,800 We're in this lot of friction. The user has to stand in front 307 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:52,200 of a Camera your disk and whose documents the more this becomes 308 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,400 digitized. Let's say there's an mdl in 309 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,400 place. All I need to do is to verify 310 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,200 with the state in u.s. that this particular mdl has been issued 311 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,100 by them, right? And there's a lot of 312 00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:05,599 cryptographic ways to essentially do that. 313 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:11,500 So identity proofing is the means to create your credential 314 00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:13,200 in the wallet. I know that's a mouthful, right? 315 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:18,200 And multiple bunch of different terms but the the what is, Is 316 00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:21,700 what is required today is to essentially go through the 317 00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:25,200 proofing Journey so that now I can trust the credential that is 318 00:17:25,208 --> 00:17:29,900 coming in and and and the path in the future would be that I 319 00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:32,500 may have to still do proofing, but I just need to prove you 320 00:17:32,508 --> 00:17:36,200 know, if it's actually Jeff who is using this particular wallet 321 00:17:36,500 --> 00:17:39,300 and and the credentials are coming from multiple different 322 00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:40,800 sources. They coming from government 323 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:42,700 agencies and I'm just verifying with them. 324 00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:45,900 What do you think is going to be the accelerator where it's like 325 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,600 you hit that point and it's like oh yeah this is the killer app 326 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,200 or can't really use case or whatever maybe that really 327 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,500 drives adoption because I think Mike pointed to you know 328 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,200 unfortunately we tend to be rather slow on some of the 329 00:17:58,208 --> 00:18:01,000 stuff, right. We're behind in some areas at 330 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:06,800 least in the US but other than time budgets I feel like we have 331 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,400 the technology everyone for the most part has a smartphone. 332 00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:13,100 Lots of services have been digitized. 333 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,000 And what is the thing that is going to? 334 00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:19,300 Or maybe a couple things that really say, oh okay, we've hit 335 00:18:19,300 --> 00:18:22,000 this inflection point and, you know, it starts to see 336 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,100 exponential growth versus kind of a slower path. 337 00:18:25,900 --> 00:18:31,200 So saving dollars fraud reduction in fraud as the common 338 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,700 tribal bit, which every Industries are adopting it. 339 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,400 Some of the leading Industries are on the financial side 340 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,700 because repeated cost and Cave. I see Canada has a good model in 341 00:18:41,700 --> 00:18:44,200 place. There are other Was a TI see 342 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,500 those two weeks back I guess and they're the discussions of 343 00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:52,900 proofing is about five years ahead of what we're talking 344 00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:55,600 about now they're talking about verifiable credentials how they 345 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,200 can essentially use it as well but yeah to answer your 346 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,500 questions industry wise. There are multiple different use 347 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:05,600 cases and examples kyc here in US. 348 00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:08,500 Healthcare is come to an inflection point. 349 00:19:08,500 --> 00:19:12,700 There is deaf cow. There are in other standards in 350 00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:14,600 place. Which essentially say, I need to 351 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,700 be interoperable with my different networks with my 352 00:19:17,700 --> 00:19:20,800 different providers and for that, I need to have an identity 353 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:25,200 wallet with a proof of identity in place as well, and then maybe 354 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:26,700 they're a couple more Industries. 355 00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:30,700 Yeah, the healthcare use case is probably the most advanced that 356 00:19:30,700 --> 00:19:34,500 I've seen in the United States. So there's an organization 357 00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:36,500 called the Karen Alliance. Then I'm sure you've seen it to 358 00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:39,000 some of the shows that we all travel together and Karen is 359 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,500 spelled c-- a Rin. It's not some lady's name. 360 00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:45,700 It stands for creating access to real-time information. 361 00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:51,000 Now and what it means is you are obligated as certain types of 362 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,000 providers of platforms, for example, Epic Systems must allow 363 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,700 you to download and access your own Healthcare records. 364 00:19:58,500 --> 00:20:00,700 That's great. So, you whip out your Apple or 365 00:20:00,700 --> 00:20:04,000 Google Wallet today. Right now today and go to health 366 00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:07,800 and say, get my data. If the hospital you're going to 367 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,600 is an epic, and there's a couple other providers epic required by 368 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,100 law. Now, to give you access to your 369 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,800 Our own data, the next stage of that is to, then, to let that 370 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,900 data flow from one doctor to another or one provider to 371 00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:21,200 another. You now, painful that is now 372 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,900 when you go to a new hospital in Timbuktu and they're faxing 373 00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:27,400 papers or just you know they can't find you whatever. 374 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,800 So this Alliance Karen has brought together about 40 375 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:36,300 different, payers providers, and Technology providers, like us to 376 00:20:36,900 --> 00:20:39,300 improve a Concepts and put out a big white paper about this. 377 00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:42,100 It's real, it's actually happening today, so that's 378 00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:45,100 exciting. The you Case was there protect 379 00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:48,900 my data HIPAA that those types of principles digitized and 380 00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:52,000 allow me to access it and then share it in a privacy-preserving 381 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,600 way. So that's exciting. 382 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,500 And when we see, maybe they'll be a mandate that requires this 383 00:20:57,500 --> 00:20:59,600 in the banking industry. Well, now you're going to have 384 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,600 some things starting to happen that's one way that the path 385 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,600 could be accelerated. Money usually drives stuff. 386 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,600 That wouldn't surprise me at all because for every regulation. 387 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,500 Yeah. Regulations which you could 388 00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:14,800 argue, could be driven by money. Let's talk a little about 389 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,900 pastoralist because I think this is something that I've been 390 00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:20,300 bullish it on for a few years. Now, this is a space. 391 00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:21,600 You guys definitely playing as well. 392 00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:25,100 If we go by Bill, Gates is calendar. 393 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:30,000 The password died in 2006. I know about you but I've 394 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,200 already typed in three passwords today, alone to get in different 395 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,200 things. So, we're behind there as well. 396 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,700 Perhaps, where do we see password list going in the next 397 00:21:40,700 --> 00:21:44,400 three to five years, is it did. You know, obviously the Fido 398 00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:48,900 Alliance and getting Apple Google Microsoft kind of all on 399 00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:51,800 the same page from a browser. And a mobile perspective was a 400 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,300 big win, we're starting to see, passkey support roll out. 401 00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:57,300 I just set up passkey, I my Google account the other day and 402 00:21:57,300 --> 00:21:58,900 it's great. Fantastic. 403 00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:02,000 When are we going to see more of that out there and really get 404 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,400 into this pastor Lewis base? Michael start with you. 405 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,900 And then I want to hear who say, for your thoughts, from, from 406 00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:08,400 your perspective, how you see it going? 407 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:14,600 Yeah, spaz wordless is here and there's a quote by Reid, 408 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,100 Hoffman, who founded LinkedIn. And, you know, I think he's part 409 00:22:17,100 --> 00:22:20,100 of the PayPal Mafia. But he says, if you're not 410 00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:23,300 embarrassed by your first release, you waited too long. 411 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,900 Well, that did not happen with passkeys, it's out. 412 00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:28,100 There it works. Sometimes it works. 413 00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:30,300 A lot of the times depending who you are your environment this or 414 00:22:30,300 --> 00:22:32,100 that. So I see it breaking and lots of 415 00:22:32,108 --> 00:22:35,300 places but it's here and to your point when it works works. 416 00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:39,000 Well, it is the future. The Fido Alliance has really 417 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,500 Made this this a reality. And now the reason it's possible 418 00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:46,100 it was not possible eight years ago because we didn't have a 419 00:22:46,100 --> 00:22:48,900 place to keep it private key. All right, the phone's didn't 420 00:22:48,900 --> 00:22:52,200 have TPMS and and the standards weren't in browsers to interface 421 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:53,900 it. So that's all here. 422 00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:57,800 Now now it's a matter of working out the edge cases to make it 423 00:22:58,100 --> 00:23:02,400 really a part of our day-to-day. But password list is a tool. 424 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,600 It is a way for you, to present a secure credential that secure 425 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,500 credential needs to be linked back to a real-world identity to 426 00:23:09,500 --> 00:23:13,400 really prevent fraud. So what if you have a passkey 427 00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:16,200 but you don't know who's presenting it. 428 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,700 Alright, so a lot of times the fallback comes username password 429 00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:22,700 and I when you have to set up, or re buying or go back to your 430 00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:25,900 cloud provider to go fetch the passkey, so I'm going to will 431 00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:29,600 see a linking of the identity proofing, which we spend a few 432 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,200 minutes on here. With the issuance of password 433 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,200 list, Fido, passkeys that together something we refer to 434 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,700 as identity. Based authentication without 435 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,800 those two together, you have H ba instead of IBA HP, a stands 436 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,400 for Hope based authentication and we don't we don't like that. 437 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:52,300 So I had to get that one in there so I'll yeah it's here and 438 00:23:52,300 --> 00:23:54,000 every organization is talking about it. 439 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,800 Now the path to get there, the adoption is where we see 440 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:03,300 companies differentiating in their A Journeys and on the 441 00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:07,400 Enterprise side that is a much stronger adoption for password 442 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,200 list. Number one, they controlling the 443 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,700 users they control the systems and the need is just reducing 444 00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:17,300 costs to. I have 100 applications on a 445 00:24:17,308 --> 00:24:18,500 thousand applications. Right? 446 00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:21,200 How many password reset cost that I can eliminate. 447 00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:23,000 So definitely from that perspective. 448 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,100 On the Enterprise side, we have seen in the last two years that 449 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,200 every organization has some effort of password list. 450 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,700 When it comes to on, on your customer site, that's where 451 00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:38,900 there has to be a little bit more adoption and place some 452 00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:41,600 more edge cases. I don't have a SmartPhone. 453 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:42,900 I have a flip phone. Right? 454 00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:46,900 How do I get those users into the mix as well? 455 00:24:46,900 --> 00:24:50,300 So we can provide much more of a standardized experience, is 456 00:24:50,308 --> 00:24:53,700 there a point where we say, You must be this tall to ride. 457 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,200 You must have a smartphone of this level of capability, TPM, 458 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,300 chip, or some other secure, Enclave, whatever it may be. 459 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,300 And you know, if we keep designing for things that can't 460 00:25:05,300 --> 00:25:08,400 support it, I feel like this is where I right now is we're not 461 00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:11,700 moving because we're still kind of holding on to the past so 462 00:25:11,700 --> 00:25:16,900 Jeff I have the mindset that it's not black or white you have 463 00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:21,300 to give the option to the user and that's what we preach to 464 00:25:21,300 --> 00:25:23,000 organization that we talked to that. 465 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,600 Don't approach any password less initiative as I was with 466 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,000 passwords yesterday and I'm password list tomorrow. 467 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,700 I would rather have it as you introduce it and then you have 468 00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:38,000 your adoption curve towards it. You incentivize them, you tell 469 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,000 them that you sign up for my for my password less, right? 470 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,900 You don't have to do XYZ, right? So I believe that's the approach 471 00:25:46,900 --> 00:25:50,400 that organization especially on the consumer, the customer 472 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,900 facing sides. Have to adopt, give both the 473 00:25:52,900 --> 00:25:55,600 options to the users, right? I think it's a really important 474 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,600 thing is, I think that sometimes gets lost in the messaging. 475 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,500 It's this binary thing, either your past. 476 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,800 So so you're not only the Sith deals in absolutes. 477 00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:07,300 I think it's just another arrow in the quiver of an identity 478 00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:10,000 professional to say. Hey this is a good use case 479 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,800 rapacity. Let's give that option to 480 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,800 people. Some people take a management, 481 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,300 some people won't especially think right now. 482 00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:18,300 I think we're in this adoption cycle, right? 483 00:26:18,300 --> 00:26:22,100 The Technology's there, the things are there but people may 484 00:26:22,100 --> 00:26:24,300 not be comfortable, whatever reason, or maybe there are 485 00:26:24,300 --> 00:26:28,200 different methods for delivery of that information, but if we 486 00:26:28,208 --> 00:26:32,100 start providing at least as an option, great To your point, 487 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,100 should not be the only option. Maybe maybe it is, maybe it's 488 00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:37,300 not a good option. Maybe I'll put you guys in a 489 00:26:37,300 --> 00:26:39,000 spot. Is there a spot today that you 490 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,100 guys can think of where Pastor Willis? 491 00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:45,000 Just doesn't make sense. Take every other factor out of 492 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:50,900 this cost technology political ramifications within the 493 00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:52,300 organization where that looks like. 494 00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:55,200 But can you think of any scenario where password list 495 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,000 just is not a good solution today? 496 00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:01,700 Well, the definition of pastoralists is One Challenge, 497 00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:05,500 as I'm doing a talk in about two hours and it's the five either 498 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,300 things to consider as you go password list or the five 499 00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:12,800 pitfalls to avoid. And one of them is defining, 500 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,900 what your password is calls are, right? 501 00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:17,400 Is it, if you Google? I did a little slider. 502 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,500 It says, here's G Petey's definition of password. 503 00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:20,600 Listen, here's claude's right there. 504 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,200 That one of the competitors they're completely different and 505 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,900 Merriam Webster says to be without passwords, right? 506 00:27:25,900 --> 00:27:30,800 So, so it's so vague. I mean, there's no. 507 00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:34,600 Cuse that in any industry. Where you couldn't as an example 508 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,900 if you do it right have a webcam and just walk in front of it, 509 00:27:37,900 --> 00:27:40,800 Minority Report style and boom. You're either through a choke 510 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,700 point or logged into a terminal and you're good to go. 511 00:27:42,700 --> 00:27:45,900 Like on a manufacturing floor, wearing gloves I got a helmet on 512 00:27:45,900 --> 00:27:48,500 like there's all these edge cases that you do need to handle 513 00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:53,400 and I think we can get there 80-85 percent. 514 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,400 Pretty quickly. That 15% will be you'll need 515 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,600 like four or five different options to be able to handle 516 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,700 them. I don't know specifically of a 517 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,600 Example, but like the manufacturing floor if you're 518 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,400 full get up and you got to do stuff is not a good way to 519 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,000 interface with any technology. It took a while for the iPhone 520 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,300 to catch up with wearing masks. Yeah. 521 00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:15,700 You know who couldn't do the face idea unless you brought the 522 00:28:15,700 --> 00:28:19,700 mass down depending on your setting that was acceptable or 523 00:28:19,700 --> 00:28:22,400 not acceptable. So what I wanted to bring up was 524 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,000 the user experience because it you know, I'm I'm pretty hot to 525 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,600 trot on the passkey. I think it's a major step 526 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,000 forward. I think that The user experience 527 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,200 committee over at Fido alliances doing yeoman's work to get 528 00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:42,600 commonality in terms of how registration for passkeys goes 529 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,700 and things like that. But also if you sit through a 530 00:28:45,700 --> 00:28:50,900 demo the four of us are all like wow that's really not that hard. 531 00:28:51,100 --> 00:28:55,800 But then you know, my lens which is I think could my dad do this. 532 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,900 Yeah. He he would say forget this, I'm 533 00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:02,300 not once he hit A wall he be done. 534 00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:08,800 And so, I think that it's the Catch-22, which is it got kind 535 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,700 as to get to ubiquity the Catch-22. 536 00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:14,500 Part being you can't get ubiquity until it's like 537 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,700 everywhere. But it's hard for it to become 538 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,100 commonplace in easy for people until it gets to that point. 539 00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:26,800 So you have that that uncomfortable transition, which 540 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,800 I think we're just in the beginning of now to get to the 541 00:29:30,900 --> 00:29:35,500 Point where her people are comfortable using the past keys, 542 00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:38,800 and registering for it, and understand what's going on or 543 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,900 not having to understand what's going on. 544 00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:44,200 But if you are going in as like, okay, use your Microsoft 545 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,000 authenticator and do this and do that. 546 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,600 And it only works within this realm, I mean that's going to be 547 00:29:49,900 --> 00:29:54,000 confusing and I use my dad as an example, but even for other 548 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,200 people in my life, my life who are not technology people. 549 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,700 It's they don't want to understand and all what's going 550 00:30:01,700 --> 00:30:04,100 on, they just want to get into their service. 551 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,000 Of course, they don't want to have their information 552 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,600 compromised, nobody wants that, but they don't have to jump 553 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,500 through hurdles. So that's where we have to get. 554 00:30:13,500 --> 00:30:18,800 And I sort this transitions all about one important thing an 555 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:25,900 analyst told me and he said that we always look at the problems, 556 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,700 you know, from a first-world perspective. 557 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,000 And if you look at Latin America, if you look at Asia, 558 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:38,600 there's a large volume of users. You cannot expect them to have a 559 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,200 password less experienced similar to what we have. 560 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,100 So, it's important to understand, you know what, their 561 00:30:45,100 --> 00:30:49,100 challenges are phones, Etc, and they have MFA requirements. 562 00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:52,300 They just introducing the government's introducing that, 563 00:30:52,700 --> 00:30:54,700 so they may still go with the Legacy. 564 00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:58,700 Third of a username password and an OTP, you introduce more 565 00:30:58,700 --> 00:31:01,400 friction for them. And then in those geography, is 566 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,000 if, you know, for this more users, would more tech savvy. 567 00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:09,000 You lessen, the friction you don't have to do it three times 568 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,100 just to send hundred dollars from one user to the other. 569 00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:17,200 But you have to understand the audience, all right? 570 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,300 And introduce it. And they will get to the 571 00:31:19,300 --> 00:31:23,700 adoption curve just based on more technology, adoption Etc. 572 00:31:23,700 --> 00:31:28,300 But Knowing knowing the user knowing the geography that you 573 00:31:28,300 --> 00:31:31,800 play in as important as well. Yeah, I think, you know, in 574 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,700 terms of the transition, hopefully, it doesn't take as 575 00:31:33,700 --> 00:31:36,200 long as this. But, you know, think about how 576 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,200 people did banking when we were kids, you know, a long long time 577 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,800 ago, they went to the bank, they stood in line, they went to the 578 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:48,300 teller and now banks have discouraged that so much. 579 00:31:48,300 --> 00:31:50,100 Right. You might even have to pay a fee 580 00:31:50,300 --> 00:31:54,100 to go see her tell her, right? They want you to use the ATM or 581 00:31:54,500 --> 00:31:55,400 bank. Online. 582 00:31:56,100 --> 00:31:59,400 The people that are parents, you know many of them are still 583 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,700 around and they just had to adopt adapt but their parents 584 00:32:03,700 --> 00:32:07,500 are no longer around but you know so I think it hopefully 585 00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:11,000 doesn't take as long to transition for password says it 586 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:16,900 has from physical Bank visits but I kind of see the analogy 587 00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:19,700 has to be indistinct indistinguishable from Magic. 588 00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:22,200 Really for them to be able to do it like you walk up and you do 589 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,600 that first time of Apple pay your a little leery. 590 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:25,900 Oh yeah. And then all the sudden you're 591 00:32:25,900 --> 00:32:28,300 like holy crap, this is I'm doing this. 592 00:32:28,300 --> 00:32:31,000 Every time I think that'll happen with every generation 593 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,700 eventually, I might be able to leave my wallet at home and that 594 00:32:33,700 --> 00:32:35,800 would be a great thing just carry my phone. 595 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,500 I have to pay for everything and I get pulled over all my 596 00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:43,800 documents are on my, my wallet on my phone. 597 00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:46,400 Yeah, that'd be fantastic. Who wouldn't want that? 598 00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:48,100 Well, where am I going to keep my Mary's Mountain? 599 00:32:48,100 --> 00:32:51,100 Cookie punch card. So I get my six punch card. 600 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,000 Tell them to go verifiable credentials for crying out loud. 601 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,300 You exactly, right. For probably one more app on 602 00:32:56,300 --> 00:32:57,500 your phone. Yeah. 603 00:32:57,500 --> 00:32:59,400 There you go. Mike, even John about a bunch of 604 00:32:59,408 --> 00:33:00,900 notes. Do we hit everything that you 605 00:33:00,900 --> 00:33:04,200 wanted to cover today? Well, there's I mentioned 606 00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:08,200 Biometrics, right? It really is an enabler when 607 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,600 done, right? And I want to point out 608 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,700 something that not too many people know about yet. 609 00:33:12,700 --> 00:33:16,400 In March of this year, the White House put out a paper, it's 610 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:21,700 called the national strategy, to advance privacy-preserving data 611 00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:24,600 and sharing analytics be pdsa, another acronym. 612 00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:28,800 That we need and in this 45-page report they talk about what it's 613 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,500 going to take for the government to use Biometrics in a safe way, 614 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,400 and they mentioned two concepts privacy enhancing techniques are 615 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,400 pets and privacy, preserving data, sharing and analytics. 616 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,600 So how do you collect Biometrics or use Biometrics in a way that 617 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,400 lets you prove who somebody is without storing a bunch of 618 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,400 photos in a database right where bad things could happen because 619 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,000 when you go to the IRS to pay our taxes, do you trust that? 620 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,600 That face isn't going to be used against you in? 621 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,800 Court of law because you I don't know, look like somebody else 622 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,100 who got, you know, committed a crime in New York City. 623 00:34:00,100 --> 00:34:02,200 Nobody is this good looking? That's right, that's right, and 624 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,300 indistinguishable from from the real Jeff. 625 00:34:04,700 --> 00:34:09,100 So these are there's a couple Technologies now. 626 00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:11,400 Like there's concept of something called homomorphic 627 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,900 encryption. Neural networks in these types 628 00:34:13,900 --> 00:34:16,699 of things, the word homomorphic encryption is mentioned as paper 629 00:34:16,699 --> 00:34:20,199 over 20 times. We are rolling out a technology 630 00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:24,500 that lets you look into a camera and within one second. 631 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,500 At the edge can tell you if it's Jeff yes or no and send back, 632 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,400 basically the equivalent of a public key to a server and I 633 00:34:32,408 --> 00:34:35,300 could do all this cryptographic stuff without any server-side 634 00:34:35,300 --> 00:34:38,500 image is being captured. So imagine, you know, it's kind 635 00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:40,300 of Minority Report. But if you knew the bit that the 636 00:34:40,308 --> 00:34:41,900 good guys couldn't use your face. 637 00:34:41,900 --> 00:34:44,900 All there was was a bunch of jumbled numbers in a that they 638 00:34:44,900 --> 00:34:47,500 couldn't do anything with. That would be a game-changing. 639 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,100 I'm way to think about it and the reason that's important 640 00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:53,100 we're talking about wallets and we're talking about past keys 641 00:34:53,100 --> 00:34:56,199 and private keys. Coveri we didn't talk about 642 00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:58,400 account recovery. What happens when you lose your 643 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,700 wallet, my house burned down my Android, my USB you because all 644 00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:05,100 these things are gone. How do you start from scratch? 645 00:35:05,100 --> 00:35:08,500 If your private keys are gone. Well, there's, there's 646 00:35:08,500 --> 00:35:11,700 technologies that will allow us to potentially recover that 647 00:35:11,700 --> 00:35:16,000 using multi-party Computing and using your Biometrics to be able 648 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,500 to recover your identity. And it's going to be a cat and 649 00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:20,400 mouse game with things like defects and AI. 650 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,100 We didn't talk about AI either. There's a place for that and in 651 00:35:23,100 --> 00:35:25,600 the in the world. Maybe that's a whole separate 652 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,900 episode, right? So I'm really bullish on 653 00:35:27,900 --> 00:35:31,100 Biometrics and age. Verification to is really hard 654 00:35:31,100 --> 00:35:32,800 and dealing with minors identity. 655 00:35:33,100 --> 00:35:36,200 We didn't talk about that. How do you prove that somebody's 656 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,000 15 and not 13 to get in online and use Facebook? 657 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,700 There's new legislation that came out there. 658 00:35:41,700 --> 00:35:43,700 Trying to pass a law that says you can't use Facebook if you're 659 00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:45,300 under 18. All right. 660 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,400 Yeah. Like, that's pretty, it's pretty 661 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,500 serious. It's another 18 actually using 662 00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:51,800 Facebook, though. Yeah, right. 663 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,200 Exactly too late. Maybe for the old people now. 664 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:55,800 So, yeah. These things of the Privacy 665 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,400 preserving, the Biometrics age verification were, and also we 666 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,100 didn't talk about diversity equity and inclusion who's ever 667 00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:04,600 touched on a bit with, like, you know, the ability for everybody 668 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,100 to be able to use these Technologies. 669 00:36:06,500 --> 00:36:09,500 So these are things were working on that Cantera has has a whole 670 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,000 D EI working group. Like, how do we do nist, 160, 671 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,500 3-3 with somebody who has no records? 672 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,300 Well, that's hard. But we have to figure it out on 673 00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:20,700 the internet. Everybody knows you're a dog. 674 00:36:20,900 --> 00:36:23,100 That's right. I actually think just as you 675 00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:26,900 were talking about those White House paper and talking about 676 00:36:26,900 --> 00:36:29,300 these different privacy initiatives. 677 00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:32,500 I think that could be one of the biggest stumbling blocks to, you 678 00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:35,400 know, self Sovereign identity and a lot of these things 679 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,900 overall. What I don't look. 680 00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:42,500 I'm not like a extreme privacy Hawk, but I also see what's 681 00:36:42,500 --> 00:36:45,600 happened with like this cookie thing, right? 682 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,500 You had every website, throws up a bars. 683 00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:50,600 Like do you want to block cookies or accept cookies? 684 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,800 You click block cookies, forget about it. 685 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:54,600 Nothing on that website is going to work. 686 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,300 So if it just becomes like, hey do you give us the right to take 687 00:36:59,300 --> 00:37:05,100 all your data from your digital Identity or you want blocked and 688 00:37:05,100 --> 00:37:08,200 you can't use our service, you can't pay for your utility bill 689 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,600 online or check your usage or whatever. 690 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:16,600 So to me, privacy has the greatest potential to become 691 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,800 stumbling block because what happens is when the needle goes 692 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,800 too far in terms of you know not Respecting privacy. 693 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,900 Then the regulations tried to come back and they end up 694 00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:31,700 overcompensating. Sometimes they become 695 00:37:31,700 --> 00:37:34,700 ineffective, like this thing with the with the cookies. 696 00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:37,200 Yeah, whoo. It's receive that in the 697 00:37:37,207 --> 00:37:39,400 Enterprise as well. You know, you have this amazing 698 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,400 password list tool, you got a phone, it's secure and you used 699 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,300 your MDM to deploy it. And then some employees are 700 00:37:46,300 --> 00:37:49,700 allowed to say, I don't want to use my phone, make me have a 701 00:37:49,707 --> 00:37:51,900 corporate phone or they don't you don't have to make them do 702 00:37:51,900 --> 00:37:54,200 that. And I don't know, I'm kind of 703 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,000 old school. Like, the way you raise kids 704 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,300 today versus yesterday or whatever, but don't work here, 705 00:37:59,300 --> 00:38:01,100 but you can't do that, right? It's not the culture you want to 706 00:38:01,100 --> 00:38:02,600 create. So, yeah, there's, there's 707 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,600 people that won't turn Face. I'd be on their phone and then 708 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,700 Fido doesn't work. They'll face idea, I don't think 709 00:38:06,700 --> 00:38:09,200 you can use phyto. Passkeys with a 6-digit pin. 710 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,200 Can you? I think that's one of the 711 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,900 devil's one details claimants. Yeah, so people won't why won't 712 00:38:14,900 --> 00:38:17,300 people use face ID? Because they're afraid. 713 00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:20,000 Cops going to pull them over or they go to the other country and 714 00:38:20,008 --> 00:38:21,700 they're going to wave the phone in front of their face and 715 00:38:21,700 --> 00:38:24,100 unlock their data. And I mean it's pretty tinfoil 716 00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:26,200 hat, kind of stuff. If but to each their own. 717 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,300 So yeah. It's these Technologies. 718 00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:33,000 People can say no to them and sometimes you have to let them 719 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,100 operate anyway. Wasn't that just progress 720 00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:38,100 though? I mean people were against cars, 721 00:38:38,100 --> 00:38:40,800 right? And the phone lights? 722 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:41,900 Yeah. I mean, everything. 723 00:38:41,900 --> 00:38:43,800 Yeah. It's the great cycle. 724 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,400 I think of human and inventions. That's right. 725 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:47,900 There's always changes heart, right? 726 00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:51,000 You're changing up something. We see it all the time. 727 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,700 That guy kind of deep. So why do we end on a while? 728 00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:01,800 No, we're in Vegas we're at a diverse and I feel like if 729 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,700 you've been here maybe more than a handful of times a couple 730 00:39:04,700 --> 00:39:08,200 times three times, maybe you have like a secret spot that you 731 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,700 just kind of like go to maybe not a lot of people know about 732 00:39:10,700 --> 00:39:15,100 it or it's just, you know, a safe place that you can go to 733 00:39:15,100 --> 00:39:18,600 and cry over your losses right? Or celebrate your winnings. 734 00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:21,800 I'm curious. If you guys have any sort of 735 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,500 kind of secret Vegas pot knowing that it might not be a secret 736 00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:28,900 for too much longer after it gets out, has a faux. 737 00:39:28,900 --> 00:39:30,600 What do you when you come to Vegas? 738 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,900 Do you have like a spot that you like to go Chang out? 739 00:39:33,900 --> 00:39:38,300 Chill food drink show comes from Vegas. 740 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,700 The the spot I really want to chill is in my hotel room 741 00:39:42,700 --> 00:39:48,900 because there's underwriting but if you want to spot this is not 742 00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:51,800 a secret but Heart Attack Grill just for the experience which 743 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,100 Grill Heart Attack Grill. I don't know that one. 744 00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:55,700 Oh, Okay. All right. 745 00:39:55,700 --> 00:39:58,200 Try the secret. Yeah, so tell me about it. 746 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:04,100 You can eat whatever you like the portion sizes are huge so 747 00:40:04,100 --> 00:40:09,400 just from an experience standpoint, go there that and or 748 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,900 anything on the menu usually works, right? 749 00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:14,800 If you had a few drinks as well, good. 750 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,700 Hopefully hangover putting the heart attack Into the Heart 751 00:40:17,700 --> 00:40:19,200 Attack Grill. All right, I'll check that one 752 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,300 out. Mike you got a secret spot for 753 00:40:21,300 --> 00:40:23,300 us. Well there's a there's one 754 00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:25,700 that's been on my list for ever but But you go to these shows 755 00:40:25,700 --> 00:40:28,100 and you're running 18 hours a day and don't get to go out. 756 00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:30,100 So we end up going to the steakhouse in the lobby, right? 757 00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:34,000 But and I love a good steak, but there's one that I hope to try 758 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,100 tonight or tomorrow night. It's called other Mama, Asian 759 00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:39,400 fusion. And I was just looking this up 760 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,500 before the show, it's out on Sahara Avenue. 761 00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:45,100 It's in a strip mall along with two other Chinese restaurants 762 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,700 and it's Asian fusion and it's so hard to find that they give a 763 00:40:49,700 --> 00:40:53,300 description of look for a little set of chopsticks on a sign that 764 00:40:53,300 --> 00:40:55,900 can across right. And that's how you find it at 765 00:40:55,900 --> 00:40:57,300 you. You will try to find in, can't 766 00:40:57,300 --> 00:41:01,800 find it and it supposedly has an amazing menu. 767 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,700 And something they said here that I'm curious about is 768 00:41:04,700 --> 00:41:08,700 Mongolian beef cheek bow, right? So, just one of those things if 769 00:41:08,700 --> 00:41:09,900 you're sorry, if you're vegetarian. 770 00:41:09,900 --> 00:41:14,000 But bujji, yeah, exactly. So yeah, I'm hoping to get to 771 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,500 there. And I'll toot about it. 772 00:41:16,500 --> 00:41:20,300 If I if I happen to get there it sounds like it's almost like a 773 00:41:20,308 --> 00:41:22,700 speakeasy. I have to look for the symbol or 774 00:41:22,700 --> 00:41:24,100 whatever. Exactly Jim. 775 00:41:24,100 --> 00:41:26,500 What's your Secret spot. I've gotta go with one with 776 00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:29,000 secret in the name. It's called secret Pizza. 777 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,200 A new, you're going to pick that one. 778 00:41:30,300 --> 00:41:34,800 Yeah that's a pizza place over at the cosmo and even if you 779 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,700 know where it is where it's supposed to be, you have a hard 780 00:41:37,700 --> 00:41:40,600 time finding it right? Because it's like, it's not 781 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,000 marked. There's a long hallway. 782 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,100 That is more like an Alleyway that you used to get back there. 783 00:41:46,300 --> 00:41:49,000 Once you're inside, it feels like a real New York City 784 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,800 Pizzeria. And the pizza is exactly that 785 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,600 style. So as somebody who lived in the 786 00:41:54,700 --> 00:41:58,700 New York Metro and got actually New Jersey and got great new 787 00:41:58,700 --> 00:42:02,800 york-style pizza all the time. But move down south, and it's 788 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,700 really hard to come by. Now, that's one spot that I 789 00:42:06,700 --> 00:42:10,500 always said, you can get the full 16-inch pizza. 790 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,200 Bring it back to your room. Get a two liter of, you know, 791 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:19,400 your favorite sugary soda and just feel like the good old 792 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,300 days. Feel like you're a teenager 793 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,500 wolfing down a pizza again. Nice And what's yours Jeff? 794 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:26,600 Yeah. What are you Jeff? 795 00:42:27,100 --> 00:42:30,100 You know, I got a few. I think it's my new toy. 796 00:42:30,100 --> 00:42:32,300 It's probably my new favorite spot and I talked about in our 797 00:42:32,300 --> 00:42:36,900 last episode was that place in the a turn Hotel on the North 798 00:42:36,900 --> 00:42:38,800 End of the strip, there's no Casino. 799 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,900 So it was totally dead inside when it was in there Monday 800 00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:43,100 night. My brother introduced it, to me, 801 00:42:43,300 --> 00:42:45,800 it's called atomo, Gourmet Kitchen, and Pizzeria. 802 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,900 I talked about the chicken, which was fantastic, best 803 00:42:48,900 --> 00:42:52,900 chicken I've ever had, but porkchop was amazing. 804 00:42:53,100 --> 00:42:57,800 There was a Rib eye. That was fantastic. 805 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,100 We had a month. Margherita pizza was fantastic. 806 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,100 And it's just, it's kind of a newish place, I guess. 807 00:43:04,100 --> 00:43:05,900 But not many people know about it. 808 00:43:05,900 --> 00:43:09,600 So so you've been there once and there once you've had a steak a 809 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,900 chicken, well we can piece right? 810 00:43:11,900 --> 00:43:16,700 So I got chicken. My brother got a pork chop, we 811 00:43:16,700 --> 00:43:19,800 had a rib eye and then as an appetizer we had a margarita 812 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,200 pizza, a small one because we kind of got there that weird 813 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,000 time where it's like in between I mean, lunch and dinner so they 814 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,800 have like an all-day menu and then they had a dinner menu, and 815 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,500 so we had half an hour to kill basically, before dinner starts. 816 00:43:31,500 --> 00:43:34,800 I was just get a pizza and I had just flown in from Atlanta. 817 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,700 That was starting that point. So, but for me, I was already 818 00:43:37,700 --> 00:43:39,000 three hours ahead into the future. 819 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,400 So, we sat there and connected, and having, you know, had a good 820 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,800 old time, but it's just a little place and because there's no 821 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,900 Casino, there's no foot traffic. You just kinda have to know 822 00:43:47,900 --> 00:43:50,900 about it, and it was fantastic. Definitely recommend it. 823 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:52,800 Amazing. Yeah, that's good. 824 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,500 That's that's what That's what Vegas is good for using this 825 00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:58,500 kind of little spots. All right, let's go ahead and 826 00:43:58,500 --> 00:44:02,300 wrap it up for this one. Mike has a flow. 827 00:44:02,300 --> 00:44:04,500 Thanks for joining us. I'll have links to your guys's 828 00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:08,100 LinkedIn profile on our show notes, as well as one Cosmos, 829 00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:14,200 one Cosmos.com. That's one k0 smos.com. 830 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,600 You can find us on the web as I get all choked up here. 831 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:18,900 Just talking about password list. 832 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:24,200 Idac podcast.com we're on Twitter at idea, see podcasts. 833 00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:30,200 Run Mastodon at idac podcast at infosec dot exchange and of 834 00:44:30,207 --> 00:44:31,600 course you can always connect with Jim. 835 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,500 And I here at LinkedIn, it's been great connect with a lot of 836 00:44:33,500 --> 00:44:38,000 listeners, have kind of come up and said, hello, and so thank 837 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:39,500 you for bringing back the guitar. 838 00:44:39,500 --> 00:44:41,300 Riff people like the guitar riff. 839 00:44:41,300 --> 00:44:43,500 So we'll roll with it until the next one. 840 00:44:43,500 --> 00:44:45,700 So yeah. So don't forget to like, 841 00:44:45,700 --> 00:44:47,900 subscribe, do all that stuff to help us out, get the word out 842 00:44:47,900 --> 00:44:53,500 that people can listen to the sultry dulcet, tones of I sweet 843 00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:55,200 identity, talk here Iran, add any of the center. 844 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,400 So we're going to leave it there for this week. 845 00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,500 Thanks everyone for listening and we'll talk to you in the 846 00:44:59,500 --> 00:45:02,900 next one. You've been listening to 847 00:45:02,900 --> 00:45:06,900 Identity at the center. We hope you've enjoyed the show, 848 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,300 make sure to like rate and review and we'll be back soon, 849 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,900 but in the meantime, hit the website at identity at the 850 00:45:14,900 --> 00:45:20,900 center.com and find us on Twitter at ivac podcast. 851 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:25,400 See you next time on identity. At the center.