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You're listening to the identity
of the center podcast, this is 

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the show that talks about 
identity and access management 

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and making sure you know who has
access to what let's get 

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started. 
Welcome to the identity of the 

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sender podcast I'm Jeff and 
that's Jim. 

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Hey Jim hey, Jeff, how are you? 
Oh, not so bad yourself. 

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I'm doing great. 
I as you know, am in the process

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of buying a house but I think 
the biggest news in our industry

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is that there's a private Equity
Firm Thoma, Bravo, that is 

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making it, much bigger purchase,
taking Ping, Identity, private 

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and a 2.8 billion dollar 
acquisition deal. 

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And once you get your hot take 
on, that definitely would be a 

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hot take. 
Well, let's see. 

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They bought sale point. 
I believe, I think they have, 

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was it Beyond trust. 
I mean, don't quote me on that. 

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But I think there are kind of 
gathering a whole Suite of 

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security tools, which I'm not 
sure what that's going to end up

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like if they'll just keep 
separate or try to do some sort 

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of merge play. 
I don't know. 

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I mean, I think it's interesting
I think is totally in line with 

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the rest of the industry, seems 
to be having these periods of 

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consolidation. 
Ation in the market. 

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But yeah, I don't know if I 
have. 

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I'm not definitely an expert 
enough to be able to weigh in on

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what it means. 
I'm sure it's exciting for 

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paying data to get a bunch of 
money in. 

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Well I think that you know I'm I
hot take is that they must have 

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seen the value like underlying 
value either, you know. 

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Combining the companies that 
they have or even just the fact 

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that, hey, here's this company 
that went public is stock price.

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Has been beat up a little bit 
because of the decline in the in

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the market and I mean, they're 
probably smart. 

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They see that identity is at the
center of information security, 

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that's the biggest area that 
companies are going to continue 

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to invest in and if they can go 
ahead and and get a good deal on

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a company like this that it 
makes sense to go buy it. 

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And heck, I mean, I think 
they're probably more in the 

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business of buying a Company 
making some changes and then 

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taking them back public, you 
know, a couple of years, down 

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the road after the market, kind 
of would be more in line to 

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recognize the value. 
So that's kind of my guess. 

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But I think it's it's 
earth-shaking news, right? 

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I mean, this is pink is one of 
the biggest players in our space

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and I mean that what is to come 
of it is yet to be seen but 

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that's my heart take well. 
Let's let's, let's be clear 

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here, right there. 
Not an altruistic Endeavor. 

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The other make money. 
It's basically they see an 

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opportunity to make money, which
probably makes sense. 

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You know, Buy Low, sell high 
right all that good stuff. 

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So I think every, you know, I 
think most of the market has 

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been down for the last couple of
months and it's probably 

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probably no better time to buy 
whatever ends up being but yeah,

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let's this is all about money. 
It's yeah, I'm almost a Time 

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Acquisitions. 
Are I mean you look at the 

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Twitter acquisition, you wonder 
if it's about making money or 

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something else but But I don't 
think this is in the same 

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category. 
Yeah, I don't think so. 

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I think it's a totally different
type of purchase. 

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I hope at least. 
Let's see. 

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I know we're going to get to our
guest here in a moment, but I do

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want to remind folks that will 
be at Gartner. 

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I am Summit in Las Vegas. 
And was that August 22nd to the 

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24th will be doing some 
recording there. 

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We've got a nice sweet courtesy 
of our friends at Aris M. 

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If you want to come watch a 
show, get recorded. 

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See the magic as it happens, you
know, reach out to Jim and 

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myself. 
Or myself on LinkedIn and would 

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be happy to try and figure out 
how we can accommodate that. 

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But should be fun lookin forward
to gettin it back into like the 

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conference sort of swing of 
things fist bumps. 

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You know. 
All the inevitable invites to 

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like the 40 different dinners 
that all take place on the same 

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night. 
Right? 

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All that good stuff. 
So just a reminder will be out 

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there and hopefully get a chance
to meet folks who are you know 

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listen out there and that would 
be kind of cool for us. 

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Yeah I mean I honestly cannot 
wait. 

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I'm really excited about it and 
The funny thing is so the 

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conference is, you know, going 
throughout the week. 

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I'm going to fly back and be 
moving that weekend and, you 

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know, to the days into the 
spillover in the week after. 

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So you can be my my moment to 
get a little bit of R&R. 

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Well, I guess we're be working 
our butts off a fake, but, you 

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know, being in Vegas, is kind of
a cool experience. 

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Usually, it is, it can be 
tiring. 

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We've got a ton of guests that 
you've lined up. 

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I think you'd like jam packed my
editing. 

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Joel for the next week after it.
So I'll have to figure out how 

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to get it done. 
But yeah, I'll be pretty cool. 

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All right, why don't we? 
I think for our listeners to is 

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just to be aware that, you know,
the week after Vegas we're going

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to have a ton of extra episode. 
So be on the lookout for that 

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and I think our next episode. 
So next week we'll dedicate to 

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kind of a preview so that point 
we should be able to preview 

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some of that content. 
Yeah. 

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Maybe I'll even read up and see 
what the sessions. 

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Are all about since I've even 
done that yet. 

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All right, let's get to today's 
topic. 

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I think this is something that 
will that a lot of folks will 

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find interesting and that really
is what I'm tentatively titling 

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and who knows, if they'll make 
of the make the actual final 

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show title but the evolution of 
I am pricing models. 

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I think it's something that 
folks are probably familiar with

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if they've been you Enterprise 
or you know customers base of 

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buying products is the old. 
Hey let's do a Perpetual license

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or now, it's subscription and 
now there's some new options out

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there. 
To help us with this 

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conversation and we've invited 
our friend. 

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But noticing, he's the founder 
and president at ailanthus 

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Technologies, back to the show, 
welcome back then. 

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Oh thank you. 
We really appreciate you guys 

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calling me back. 
I remember, I think it was me 

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back in Feb, 20 2000, right? 
And I was with you guys and that

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was a very interesting topic to 
and looking forward to a very 

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exciting discussion. 
Yeah, that was definitely an 

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interesting time in the human 
race, I guess. 

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As a shared Collective 
Consciousness. 

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Yeah, that was episode number 32
and here we are on. 

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What should be episode 159, 
which is kind of crazy to say. 

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I know that we've kind of 
learned a bit about your 

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background last time. 
So if folks are kind of want to 

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get back to, you know, how do 
you know, how did you get into 

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the item space? 
I would encourage you to go 

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back, listen to episode 32, and 
then come back and pick this up.

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But what's been going on the 
last couple of years since 

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really, I guess the last time we
talked about is like the 

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pandemic was just getting 
started. 

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What's new and shaken in the 
world of the node where the bit 

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just been a very interesting 
more than two years since we met

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last as you know the pandemic 
has been the main topic for all 

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of us and in particular, I think
for identity and access 

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management folks, this has been 
a very interesting time while 

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the world was was looking at 
things going down. 

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Things were in a difficult State
business, as well as health. 

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One thing that was certainly 
picking up in the background was

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identity and access management 
because people working from home

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and many other issues that came 
up Suddenly three opened the 

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doors for. 
I am in a bigger way that it 

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ever was not that a lot of 
buying happened at that point in

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time but some of us being in 
this space for a long time were 

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quite really looking at as to 
how things are spanning out, how

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technology requirements are 
changing in. 

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Donate and we were all busy 
trying to fix things and do 

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things. 
Like for example working from 

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robot remote became a very, very
important thing. 

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And we will try to look at as to
how like most of the other guys 

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can can do changes to our 
products. 

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So we were looking at a lot of 
things. 

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The thing that happened with 
pandemic we could see that 

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there's going to be a downturn 
and even though the need for 

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concerns around identity and 
access are going to increase but

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people Are going to be having 
less dollars to really be. 

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So on one side, the demand will 
go up but the affordability of 

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customers going to be less than 
what it was before pandemic. 

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So we were looking at, you know,
interestingly enough. 

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We began doing a very major 
survey in the last one year, 

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more than a year. 
Now, where we did go too close 

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to our 250 cios and CFOs asking 
these questions in terms of 

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what, what do you think? 
What kind And of modeling, are 

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you looking for one about the 
demand for identity and access 

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and second as to what would be 
the way you'd like to purchase. 

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So we were quite busy trying to 
do all that in the last more 

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than two years sounds like a 
full plate. 

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I guess I you know, Jim asked me
for my heart, take on the pink 

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thing. 
When you see, you know of a 

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large PE firm like Thoma Bravo, 
make purchases like this. 

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What does that feel like, you 
know I guess being in this space

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you know, from as a Entity 
product is it? 

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I assume it. 
Is there some sort of 

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validation, right? 
Hey, we're in the right space, 

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probably helps. 
I guess any, any thoughts or 

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things that maybe people who are
not, you know, with what's a 

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technology itself and you see 
this, but what should we be 

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taking away from that sort of 
thing? 

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So this is not surprising. 
As you, as you, you guys were 

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chatting in the beginning, this 
is a good time to buy in some 

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senses and this is a good time 
to buy those companies who do 

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have a good and Ounce customer 
base because they have be there 

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for white and it's very 
difficult to change technology 

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in areas like these as we do. 
Even if you are not fully 

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satisfied but companies we are 
we are not we're not really 

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making much Headway you know, 
and facing lot of headwind 

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because of the kind of 
Technology they have, something 

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has been an old company. 
In fact, it's been one of the 

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first companies. 
If you look at these is our 

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space. 
And in that they have, So many 

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technologies that they had to 
build. 

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See one of the problems with 
most of most of the guys is that

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when you begin, you obviously 
have the best and the latest in 

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technology. 
And as you begin acquiring 

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customers and couple of years 
past due to typically, I see 

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that a three to three and a half
years. 

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You know. 
Technology is starts getting old

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and it's very difficult to make 
a major change in your version, 

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so you keep on patching up and 
then you end up seeing new 

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features and areas opening up 
like, DC I am and so on and so 

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forth and then you start 
bringing additional Technologies

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either to acquisition or doing 
some additional you know ways. 

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I'm going to do some additional 
engineering to develop new 

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modules and what you end up 
doing is having a bunch of 

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Technologies which do not really
work out you know as one single 

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composite technology which is 
worked more and more happening 

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at least in identity and access 
Jeff, you know, about the 

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converged I am and it was only 
in November, 20, 20 that 

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Gardener talked about it first 
and ever since then, that seems 

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to have become the real Demand 
with customers because and most 

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of the Technologies don't 
satisfy. 

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So I'm not surprised to see ping
by out because it's a good 

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candidate it it has been there 
for a long time. 

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I think customer the number of 
customers that it has is the 

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biggest biggest attraction. 
In terms of its value, not so 

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much of Technology submit. 
I wanted to kind of shift this 

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into our conversation for today 
which is around licensing models

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for. 
I am software and I'll start by 

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saying that over the past 
decade, we've kind of seen a 

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shift away from the Perpetual 
license model like I buy license

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per user and then I own that 
license for life and pay 

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maintenance fee to something 
that's more subscription-based. 

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So I pay an annual, only the 
annual fee, and it's not just 

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cloud-based applications that 
are making the shift. 

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But even, you know, traditional 
on-premise software 

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applications. 
I have been making this shift in

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Mass to the subscription model 
and now you, you had I llantas, 

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your company has added a wrinkle
to this which is basically a new

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00:12:46,500 --> 00:12:49,300
Option called pay-per-use 
pricing. 

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And so first, I wanted to start 
with what's kind of the 

227
00:12:51,900 --> 00:12:55,100
inspiration for Were the paper 
use model. 

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So the as I told you the whole 
thought process began, just 

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around the pandemic time when we
could see that this is going to 

230
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,900
expand out into the ability and 
it is going to hit the ability 

231
00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:12,200
of the customers to purchase. 
I am technology and there's got 

232
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to be something that needs to be
done. 

233
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And that's when we did this very
important survey, we took about 

234
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six months for us to do that and
we've we were asking the CFOs 

235
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and the cio's As to what is it, 
what's the kind of what are the 

236
00:13:26,300 --> 00:13:31,600
kind of gaps that you see today 
in in your purchase model and 

237
00:13:31,700 --> 00:13:34,400
what came out to us, were three 
things. 

238
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First was in terms of the high 
entry costs. 

239
00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:42,400
Let's not forget that identity 
and access the the real 

240
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opportunity today and more than 
60% of the opportunity is in 

241
00:13:47,700 --> 00:13:50,800
Greenfield space. 
Customers who have not purchased

242
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:55,300
I am before, but they Not 
postpone any more because of the

243
00:13:55,300 --> 00:13:58,300
security concerns that they 
have, in fact, more and more. 

244
00:13:58,300 --> 00:14:01,600
It's being said, that smaller 
organizations have got more 

245
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danger and they're in, they're 
more vulnerable than larger 

246
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,200
organizations for obvious 
reasons. 

247
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And therefore, everybody wants 
to go and have the core 

248
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:16,200
technology, like I am so, but 
the entry costs are very high. 

249
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,200
You look at it. 
Jim typically today about 2,000 

250
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:22,800
users, which is pretty much the 
same. 

251
00:14:22,900 --> 00:14:25,600
Side of a mid-market customer. 
I end up the mid-market. 

252
00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:30,600
You end up spending about 200k 
and two hundred thousand dollars

253
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,500
is not a small amount for a 
midsize customers to spend on 

254
00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:35,700
it. 
Regular basis on an annual 

255
00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:40,800
basis, add to it the the 
difficulties of implementation 

256
00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:45,000
and high costs associated with 
it and all it makes it 

257
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,400
prohibitive. 
So high entry cost is one thing,

258
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,100
one problem that we wanted to 
really solve. 

259
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,700
Yeah. 
So it seems like it's like from 

260
00:14:52,700 --> 00:14:57,000
a Four sharks or standpoint. 
This is a model that we're 

261
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,300
becoming accustomed to. 
I'm wondering do you see a shift

262
00:15:02,500 --> 00:15:07,700
in this area taking place for 
application applications overall

263
00:15:07,700 --> 00:15:10,700
not just? 
I am applications like I've lent

264
00:15:10,700 --> 00:15:16,200
as but also you know travel and 
expense or Erp systems that they

265
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,900
shift more away from a, we're 
going to charge you per user, 

266
00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:25,600
which might not be the best 
indicator of how much value 

267
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,900
you're getting from. 
This system has shifted more 

268
00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:30,600
towards something like the 
amount of times you use a 

269
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,900
workflow or the, you know, kind 
of the the more of a usage, 

270
00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:36,800
based model. 
Absolutely. 

271
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:42,200
So this is not just true for I 
am space but also for as use 

272
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,600
rightly said, the demand for 
shifting onto a model, where we 

273
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,500
will have lower entry cost where
we have lower wastage because 

274
00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:53,300
that's another issue that in the
especially in this Scription 

275
00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:57,600
model is, is really very, very, 
very Stark. 

276
00:15:58,300 --> 00:16:00,600
In fact talking to many, many, 
cios. 

277
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,800
They say, you know, subscription
is kind of illusionary, because 

278
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,700
when you begin, it looks like 
one more subscriber you were 

279
00:16:07,700 --> 00:16:11,200
adding to your system, and it 
looks like a very small cost per

280
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,500
subscriber, but then it ends up 
into being something humongous 

281
00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:18,200
at the end of the year and we 
don't even realize it. 

282
00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:22,800
So it's very important to really
see how do we cut the wastage. 

283
00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:26,300
Age. 
And that's another thing which 

284
00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:28,700
is quite true for other 
Technologies as well. 

285
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,500
In the third is the 
accountability. 

286
00:16:30,500 --> 00:16:34,300
Let's not forget that because in
the subscription or any of the 

287
00:16:34,300 --> 00:16:37,600
previous models, there is no 
accountability on on the cost 

288
00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:40,600
who's consuming, who's not 
consuming what's really going 

289
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,400
on? 
In over there people can only 

290
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:49,000
look at the the amount that they
have invested but the usage in 

291
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,600
the accountability for usage is 
not there and these things get 

292
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,600
pretty We seen other Industries 
as well autonomy. 

293
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,300
And I am. 
Yeah, right. 

294
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,400
As wonder if maybe you could 
give a little when we did our 

295
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:05,200
prep call, you kind of gave some
perspective in terms of the 

296
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,900
history of the shift from the 
Perpetual model into the 

297
00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:10,800
subscription model. 
And what I thought was 

298
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,400
interesting is that some 
companies did a good job with it

299
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,000
like Microsoft, others maybe not
so well, right. 

300
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:23,700
So what can we glean from this 
and kind of apply to What might 

301
00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:25,800
take place with the paper use 
model. 

302
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,900
So we got to, first of all know,
couple of things, the market 

303
00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:34,100
practices for purchases or sales
for that matter, from organic, 

304
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:38,200
from companies like us, are 
largely driven by large players 

305
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:42,600
and their needs, they're not so 
much driven by the needs of the 

306
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,200
customer. 
If I look at the Perpetual model

307
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,600
and when the shift was occurring
about a decade ago from 

308
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:54,500
Perpetual to license, I clearly 
you You would remember that 

309
00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:57,800
people like IBM and the Oracles 
of the word but the last ones to

310
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,500
go into that and the reason is 
very simple. 

311
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,100
They had huge AMC that they used
to get, you know, it used to run

312
00:18:05,100 --> 00:18:08,100
into hundreds of millions of 
dollars that they were 

313
00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:10,300
collecting, which would 
disappear overnight. 

314
00:18:10,300 --> 00:18:16,400
If the shift to the the this 
model the typically, it's the 

315
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,100
ratio thumb rule is about 
three-and-a-half to four times. 

316
00:18:19,500 --> 00:18:24,300
So between the perpetual and the
end And and the subscription 

317
00:18:24,300 --> 00:18:28,800
model and suddenly, if these 
large players who were selling 

318
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:33,600
on Perpetual, if they shifted to
the other model, which is 

319
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,100
subscription, their revenue 
would have dropped down by 

320
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:39,500
almost half and they cannot 
afford it. 

321
00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:42,000
I mean, what base are you going 
to show to the stock market, 

322
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,000
right? 
And nobody's going to understand

323
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,000
that. 
So they tried not to do not to 

324
00:18:48,100 --> 00:18:51,800
do that shift till such time it 
became impossible not to shift 

325
00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:54,200
with the customers began. 
Demanding and everybody started 

326
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,500
doing it amongst the smaller 
players like us. 

327
00:18:57,100 --> 00:19:00,700
So we must understand that. 
But the practices are, you know,

328
00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:04,500
the big guys, they don't don't, 
you know, wait, they don't go 

329
00:19:04,700 --> 00:19:07,700
necessarily to satisfy the 
requirements of the customer be 

330
00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:09,700
go by. 
They have to protect their, 

331
00:19:09,900 --> 00:19:14,400
their own share prices. 
And that's what really drives 

332
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,700
the thing till the last moment. 
So that happened once. 

333
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,000
The same thing is beginning to 
weaken. 

334
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,000
See it happening again when 
People are beginning to get 

335
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,700
quite dissatisfied with the 
subscription model. 

336
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,400
Something that was happening 
with Perpetual just about 10 

337
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,400
years ago. 
So it's time to change and you 

338
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,100
know, reasons are quite quite 
clear. 

339
00:19:36,700 --> 00:19:41,100
I can't recast lack of 
accountability on the investment

340
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,100
and the sheer waste is that you 
have in the subscription because

341
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,800
you have to sign up a 
subscription and perhaps for 

342
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,300
more number of people than you 
have because you're doing it 

343
00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:55,100
usually for a year and You're 
not going to use it is and then 

344
00:19:55,100 --> 00:19:57,500
you've got the light user versus
the heavy user. 

345
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:03,600
You've got the you've got view, 
purchasing your not everybody is

346
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,100
not using the same when you 
purchase, you don't begin, 

347
00:20:07,100 --> 00:20:09,900
everybody doesn't start using it
because you still implementing 

348
00:20:09,900 --> 00:20:11,700
it. 
I am it's Rachel because it 

349
00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:15,000
takes time to implement. 
So, for first couple of years, 

350
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,800
you're not even utilizing the 
full value at all. 

351
00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:21,100
So once again, those pressures 
are there, and I think this, 

352
00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:22,700
that's what is going to lead to 
another. 

353
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:27,300
They're around a big change. 
We are you taking the leadership

354
00:20:27,300 --> 00:20:29,800
in that as well? 
As far as I am, is concerned. 

355
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,800
I'm a fan of choice and I think 
this introduces choice for the 

356
00:20:33,808 --> 00:20:38,000
consumer, right? 
I think there is probably, you 

357
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,000
know, where options where a 
subscription definitely makes 

358
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,300
sense or even Perpetual makes 
sense. 

359
00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:46,200
And there's certainly an option 
where pay-per-use makes sense as

360
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,600
well. 
And I think this is why things 

361
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:53,300
that you touched on when we're 
you just said, is that From a 

362
00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:58,400
subscription model to any other 
payment model has repercussions,

363
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,600
especially for public companies,
where they are chasing, sort of 

364
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,200
the next quarter, or Revenue 
targets or whatever it may be. 

365
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,100
So that I think that it is 
interesting. 

366
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,900
I also think about it from Death
by subscription as well. 

367
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,200
I think most people will 
probably have like multiple 

368
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,800
video subscriptions, right? 
It's Netflix Hulu Disney. 

369
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,600
Now, I might as well commit, you
know, all your You Tube TVs. 

370
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,100
He's right. 
All the different things you pay

371
00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:26,900
for, how much of it are you 
actually using? 

372
00:21:26,900 --> 00:21:32,000
And I think about it in the old 
days as an old person on it is 

373
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:35,000
remember, we used to have 
minutes on our phones and number

374
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,100
of text messages that we would 
have a sort of a bank and it 

375
00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:42,500
feels like a better version of 
that because we've gotten 

376
00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:46,700
accustomed to this usage model 
of paper, you know, pay for it. 

377
00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:49,500
You use. 
I think Amazon started this with

378
00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:54,000
their, aw Essence is, for 
example, it was From the start 

379
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,800
built on a paper use or 
consumption model. 

380
00:21:57,100 --> 00:21:59,200
I think it's easier when you 
have those sort of options that 

381
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:00,800
are out there. 
So I think it's, I think it's 

382
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:05,300
definitely pretty cool to kind 
of think about that choice, but 

383
00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:07,700
I imagine and you might have 
reference this. 

384
00:22:07,700 --> 00:22:11,800
When we were just starting to 
show is the technology needs to 

385
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,200
be there to be able to do that 
accountability, that 

386
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,200
record-keeping and tracking to 
be able to keep an accurate 

387
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,100
count of okay, who is actually 
using our product. 

388
00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:23,700
I would imagine that there. 
Probably some technical 

389
00:22:23,700 --> 00:22:26,700
underpinning that needs to take 
place to support this and I 

390
00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:30,600
think things like microservices 
or apis or whatever it may be 

391
00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:34,600
and if your application is not 
built on sort of that that sort 

392
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:39,900
of model, it may be difficult to
move quickly to a consumption 

393
00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:41,500
based model. 
Do I have that? 

394
00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:44,000
Right are the things that I need
to kind of consider or people 

395
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,300
listening should consider. 
You're absolutely right. 

396
00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:48,900
There are, there are major 
technology changes that are 

397
00:22:48,900 --> 00:22:52,600
required to fit yourself into. 
It's not like shit. 

398
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,400
From Perpetual to do the 
subscription there in effect, 

399
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,100
there was not much of a change 
in technology really was 

400
00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:03,500
required. 
Your subscription got more 

401
00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:05,700
shows. 
He hated with Cloud a typically 

402
00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:09,900
doesn't Nothing Stops you from 
having subscription on on-prem 

403
00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:13,300
as well, right? 
So there will no real changes 

404
00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:16,900
required in technology at that 
point in that transition. 

405
00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:19,900
But this transition does require
quite a bit of Technology 

406
00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:22,900
change. 
You talked about the micro Isis 

407
00:23:22,900 --> 00:23:26,200
architecture. 
Yes, that does help in terms of 

408
00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:30,400
Shifting to a consumption based 
model but I'm just to tell you 

409
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,600
Jeff, I'm not really a big fan 
of microservices, the way it is 

410
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,000
seen by the world. 
We in our industry, always have 

411
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,500
this, you know, there is there 
is a flavor of the season, 

412
00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:43,600
right? 
In for the last few years. 

413
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,300
It appears to be the 
microservices. 

414
00:23:45,700 --> 00:23:50,200
But ask all of us who have tried
microservices from from the 

415
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,100
beginning. 
There are issues with that as 

416
00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:54,300
well. 
And like it always happens, the 

417
00:23:54,308 --> 00:23:58,400
middle Mark middle path is 
perhaps the right bat, so we are

418
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,100
all beginning to settle down on 
a model, which is not monolithic

419
00:24:02,100 --> 00:24:05,600
for sure, in terms of 
architecture but it's also not 

420
00:24:06,500 --> 00:24:11,400
too granular microservices, but 
yes, I chrysalises does help. 

421
00:24:11,500 --> 00:24:15,600
So we had to do. 
Almost 4:45 months of work in 

422
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:20,300
terms of making the model 
applicable, the consumption 

423
00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:22,100
model applicable to our 
technology. 

424
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,000
But if it'll work is I want to 
throw out a wild idea because 

425
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,400
you know, I've been on both 
sides of of the I am industry. 

426
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:37,300
So I spent the first half of my 
career you know, on the customer

427
00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:39,900
client side. 
In other words, buying I am 

428
00:24:39,900 --> 00:24:44,100
Solutions and so one of the 
things I always struggled with 

429
00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:48,100
with buying software was well 
the software is already built 

430
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,900
and yeah I'm going to call in 
for maintenance and things like 

431
00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:57,000
that, but how do I'm up with the
price because you acquire me as 

432
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,700
a customer. 
It's not like you're going to 

433
00:24:58,700 --> 00:25:00,600
have to build new software for 
me. 

434
00:25:00,900 --> 00:25:03,700
Yes, you're going to have to 
support me but that's the 

435
00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:09,100
maintenance and so more or less.
How how should let me turn this 

436
00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:12,600
into a question? 
How should I, as a customer? 

437
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,600
Think about the prices being 
charged to me and whether or 

438
00:25:16,608 --> 00:25:19,100
not, it's a fair price to pay, 
right? 

439
00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:22,600
I'm buying something that like a
software program that's already 

440
00:25:22,700 --> 00:25:25,700
I've been written and whether 
I'm the customer or not, you've 

441
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:28,100
already built it, you've already
spent the money to build it. 

442
00:25:28,100 --> 00:25:33,700
So how do I, you know, 
compartmentalize in my mind that

443
00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:37,100
I'm paying a good price or not? 
Very good question. 

444
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,700
And, you know, the I think 
becomes option model is the 

445
00:25:40,700 --> 00:25:43,300
first model really addressing 
that question. 

446
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,600
Because, you know, all this vile
you bid a fixed price, whether 

447
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,300
it was a Perpetual or in 
subscription for the first time 

448
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:58,000
you're Not going to be the same,
it depends on the return on the 

449
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,900
or your return on. 
Your investment is going to 

450
00:26:00,900 --> 00:26:05,400
remain the same regardless of 
you use more or less, which was 

451
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,300
not to earlier. 
So what I mean by that is that, 

452
00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:13,500
you know, if you consume more 
you pay more if you consume less

453
00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:16,700
you pay less so there is no one 
single fee anymore. 

454
00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:20,300
So you know that's that's the 
answer to your question because 

455
00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:25,300
This conduction model for the 
first time is not fixing the 

456
00:26:25,300 --> 00:26:29,200
price up, upfront you not 
knowing as to how you're going 

457
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,700
to utilize in, what's going to 
be a return on the investment 

458
00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:35,000
and so on. 
So this is an ideal model for 

459
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,700
that. 
I think is interesting question 

460
00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:39,600
because a lot of people are out 
there thinking, okay, well, what

461
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,700
is this thing Worth to me and 
then is a highly subjective 

462
00:26:43,700 --> 00:26:46,000
answer, right? 
I think you've got a coin 

463
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,900
collector, I will get a normal 
quarterback. 

464
00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:51,100
Okay, let's worth 25 cents. 
Some other person might look and

465
00:26:51,100 --> 00:26:54,500
say, oh, That's this year. 
It has these markings on it, 

466
00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:57,700
which makes it more valuable. 
So, I think it is interesting. 

467
00:26:57,700 --> 00:27:00,900
I think part of it too, is 
you're not just paying for the 

468
00:27:00,900 --> 00:27:05,600
service, you're also paying for 
the R&D that went into it and 

469
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,400
the more people who use it, the 
overall cost comes down, it's 

470
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,800
very similar to, for example, 
the u.s. drug Market where 

471
00:27:12,100 --> 00:27:16,600
billions are spent on, you know,
researching medicines, and 

472
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,000
testing and things like that. 
And the prices are so high 

473
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,300
because they need to recoup 
that. 

474
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,100
That investment that they've 
made to sell it out, so they can

475
00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:26,400
continue to invest. 
Now, I'm not calling the drug 

476
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:31,500
Market great because it is a 
problem, but this idea of okay, 

477
00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:34,100
well, I'm paying it, it's more 
of a mindset. 

478
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:36,600
I think of the consumer, like, 
it's very myopic. 

479
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,500
I'm only paying for this piece 
of ham on my sandwich. 

480
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,700
It's right there while she give 
it to me. 

481
00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:44,200
Okay, well, what did it take to 
get that piece of ham into the 

482
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:49,700
position where you can get it? 
There was a truck at some point.

483
00:27:49,700 --> 00:27:52,600
There was probably a pig. 
There's probably a farmer, 

484
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,300
right? 
There's this whole supply chain 

485
00:27:54,300 --> 00:27:57,200
which is obviously come into 
light over the last couple years

486
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,300
with the whole pandemic. 
Strain that has put on that. 

487
00:27:59,700 --> 00:28:01,900
And I think it is interesting 
when we talk about who will 

488
00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:04,500
what's a good price? 
And I'll be honest, sometimes, 

489
00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:07,400
you know, I've been on the same 
same same as Jim, right? 

490
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,100
I've been on the consumer side, 
buying these products and now 

491
00:28:11,100 --> 00:28:14,200
I'm on the other side of things,
not necessarily selling product,

492
00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:17,300
although obviously service is a 
big part of what we do from from

493
00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:21,300
a data day-to-day perspective. 
But what is that worth? 

494
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,300
And the ends. 
I think it's highly subjective. 

495
00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:26,500
It's difficult to put a value on
it. 

496
00:28:26,700 --> 00:28:29,500
If I told you, hey, you know 
what, I can automate all of your

497
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:33,300
identity governance things for, 
you know, X number of dollars. 

498
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,900
What is that worth to you? 
One company might say nothing 

499
00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:38,700
because we already have 
something or really simple. 

500
00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:41,900
We're happy with it or another 
one, I'd say it's invaluable 

501
00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:45,000
because that is not the, the 
that is not our sweet sauce. 

502
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,200
We don't want to spend our money
doing things that are not 

503
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,500
Mission critical to the success 
of our business. 

504
00:28:49,500 --> 00:28:52,200
Elsewhere, for example, 
thinking, I think it's a super 

505
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,600
subjective question but no. 
Would you agree with that or 

506
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,400
feel free to not 1200? 
Yes I agree with you that it is 

507
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,000
a very subjective question but 
let me bring it a few 

508
00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:05,000
interesting thoughts and over 
here because it's not so much 

509
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,700
about what you're going to you. 
Give some examples and very 

510
00:29:09,700 --> 00:29:13,000
rightly. 
So it's not not so much about 

511
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,400
the spend part of it as The 
Return part. 

512
00:29:17,500 --> 00:29:21,500
You know, if you look at it from
that point of view, the the 

513
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:25,100
consumption model is for the 
first time putting all the 

514
00:29:25,100 --> 00:29:30,800
pressure on the software 
manufacturer to deliver the 

515
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,400
goods. 
All this while people have 

516
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,400
purchased because they got an 
emerged by great demos looks so,

517
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,200
so sassy and you purchased it 
and then you eventually found 

518
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,900
that you're not getting the 
return here in this model. 

519
00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:47,200
Just to tell you. 
Frankly if you look at our 

520
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,700
pricing, if you get a chance, 
you'll see that that we don't 

521
00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:54,200
make any money. 
Money whatsoever in the minimum,

522
00:29:54,900 --> 00:29:57,300
you minimum subscription. 
So there is a small tiny 

523
00:29:57,300 --> 00:30:00,100
subscription that is there 
which, of course gets adjusted 

524
00:30:00,100 --> 00:30:03,400
against consumption also, but in
that you don't get make any 

525
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,400
money, you start making money or
we start making money only when 

526
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,700
the customer really starts using
the software. 

527
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,200
So we are and for it to enable 
him to use the software is not 

528
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,300
just the software that's 
important how we implemented, 

529
00:30:18,300 --> 00:30:20,900
who implements it for him. 
So we got to create a good echo 

530
00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:22,300
system. 
Of implementers. 

531
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,700
We got to see that the 
implementation is done in a 

532
00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:29,300
simple way. 
To the the whole implementation 

533
00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:32,800
cycle is shortened, the support 
is very good from our site so 

534
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,600
that the customer continues to 
use it. 

535
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:40,000
So the entire pressure for the 
first time is now on the 

536
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,300
software maker, not on the 
custom. 

537
00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:47,800
The second important point I 
want to make Jeff is that the 

538
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,200
favorite model will doctor also 
says the same thing. 

539
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,500
For the identity delivery today 
is going to be is the mssp and 

540
00:30:56,500 --> 00:31:00,300
this is a model which suits the 
customer very well because again

541
00:31:00,300 --> 00:31:05,200
this is more like, you know, 
more consumption based and are 

542
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,500
kind of pricing model in 
technology now is 100% aligned 

543
00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:14,800
with mssp delivery. 
So that's another important 

544
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,900
thing that you got to see as to 
how easily the the software is 

545
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:22,500
available to you. 
Not just the software to 

546
00:31:22,700 --> 00:31:25,900
delivered software implemented. 
Software is available to the End

547
00:31:25,900 --> 00:31:28,300
customer and these are things 
that are possible. 

548
00:31:28,300 --> 00:31:30,900
Only that this model. 
Yeah, I think it's interesting 

549
00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:34,600
because the other thing too, is 
this model that we're talking 

550
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,900
about, and it started with 
Perpetual, now we're such now 

551
00:31:37,900 --> 00:31:40,600
subscription. 
Now moving to pay per use, it 

552
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,700
causes a challenge for some 
folks when we start thinking 

553
00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:46,600
about budgeting, because there 
is a, you know, the further you 

554
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,600
shift to the right in that 
equation. 

555
00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:53,000
The unpredictability or Already 
of what I might be paying could 

556
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,100
be an issue, the other thing 
that comes up and I hadn't 

557
00:31:56,100 --> 00:31:59,200
really thought about this until 
a couple of years ago, was the 

558
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,600
difference between capex and 
Opex and how organizations 

559
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,400
budget for these types of things
is a lot of organizations work 

560
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,100
on a cap, ex model where they 
say, hey we're going to set 

561
00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:13,800
aside five million dollars for 
some sort of improvement and 

562
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,000
then they're able to kind of 
spread that cost over years, you

563
00:32:16,008 --> 00:32:18,600
know, through accounting and 
things like that. 

564
00:32:18,900 --> 00:32:23,400
But their operations expense It 
is maybe not so high and when 

565
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,600
you start talking about, you 
know, subscriptions and paper 

566
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,000
use. 
Now we're really talking more op

567
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,700
ex and I sometimes question 
whether or not organizations 

568
00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:35,700
have even caught up to the 
subscription model because that 

569
00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:39,100
sometimes it's a challenge. 
And that's the other thing that 

570
00:32:39,100 --> 00:32:43,700
I think about is, you know, I 
think this I'd love to hear your

571
00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:47,600
input capex versus op ex and how
organizations should be thinking

572
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,200
about how to budget for this and
then trying to address that. 

573
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,500
Predictability. 
I think you guys specifically 

574
00:32:53,500 --> 00:32:56,800
have an interesting model with 
sort of minimums and maximums 

575
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,100
and we don't want to turn this 
into a commercial but I would 

576
00:32:59,100 --> 00:33:02,300
encourage folks go look at 
ailanthus.com, check out the 

577
00:33:02,300 --> 00:33:05,000
paper. 
You paper paper paper, use if I 

578
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:10,100
could say right because I think 
there is something there, we've 

579
00:33:10,100 --> 00:33:12,400
sort of got this hybrid between 
the two. 

580
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,400
That makes a lot of sense, at 
least for me, but I'm curious 

581
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,300
capex. 
Op X the predictability. 

582
00:33:19,300 --> 00:33:21,200
How do you, how do you address 
those sorts of things? 

583
00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:25,100
Yeah, so it's a question of do 
you really want to address it 

584
00:33:25,300 --> 00:33:29,100
because you know, when the 
moment you begin talking about 

585
00:33:29,100 --> 00:33:31,400
who I want to put a million 
dollars. 

586
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,900
As you said for the next five 
years and we want to assign that

587
00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:39,100
to Identity and access. 
You are forgetting one basic 

588
00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:42,100
thing that you you're not really
looking at what to return. 

589
00:33:42,100 --> 00:33:44,600
You're going to get. 
You're only looking at spending 

590
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,300
the money, right? 
And that kind of a model is 

591
00:33:47,300 --> 00:33:50,800
pretty much becoming dead except
for a very large organizations, 

592
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,800
be the fourth Bowser where they 
have no other way but to 

593
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,000
continue doing it in that way 
because they don't know how to 

594
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,900
do it any other way. 
But the smaller organizations, 

595
00:33:59,900 --> 00:34:03,000
the mid-market and the smaller 
corporate organ smaller 

596
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,500
Enterprise, They are all looking
to save money to make things 

597
00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:11,400
more effective for them to get 
higher return on investment, 

598
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,300
rather than fixing the the total
amount of money they're going to

599
00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:18,100
spend the year after year. 
In fact, they're very happy. 

600
00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:21,800
We have spoken to a large number
of cios and CFOs So, they're 

601
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:26,500
very happy to have flexibility 
over there, and if they can save

602
00:34:26,500 --> 00:34:31,400
every year, 10% or 20% over the 
last year, rather than fixing it

603
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:36,100
at a certain level and continue 
to spend that money Piero, they 

604
00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:39,699
would prefer that model. 
So having said that in our 

605
00:34:39,699 --> 00:34:43,600
model, we have certain 
predictability and their 

606
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,300
customers who are looking to 
have that predictability. 

607
00:34:46,900 --> 00:34:49,199
As you rightly said, you can go 
to Atlantis at comment. 

608
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:52,500
Take a look at more details with
some Our folks to, to 

609
00:34:52,500 --> 00:34:59,200
understand, but we have provided
enough facilitation in our 

610
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,500
model, to take care of that as 
well, soba node Jeff and I have 

611
00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:05,200
gone back and forth about this 
model. 

612
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:10,600
And, you know, I liken it to 
utilities like your electric 

613
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:15,600
bill, he Likens it to, you know,
the gas, you put in your car. 

614
00:35:15,700 --> 00:35:19,800
Obviously, you know, the price 
can fluctuate for both. 

615
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,600
I kind of think about Out my 
electric bill in December. 

616
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,800
I think it was like 45 bucks and
my most recent electric bill, I 

617
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,100
live in the south and run the 
air conditioner all the time 

618
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,500
like 350 bucks. 
And so that's kind of that 

619
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:38,400
predictability challenge. 
That concerns me is like, hey, 

620
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,400
if I have an event that drives a
soap. 

621
00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:45,100
Number one, I really wanted to 
ask you, do you like either this

622
00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:48,300
analogies or do you have another
analogy that's like, outside of 

623
00:35:48,300 --> 00:35:50,600
the, IT world that you would 
apply? 

624
00:35:51,100 --> 00:35:56,000
And And the second is, you know,
from a tracking standpoint, how 

625
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:01,000
can people kind of go in either,
do a better job at managing what

626
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,900
that bill is going to be? 
Or at least have the visibility 

627
00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:07,900
into what that bill is going to 
be so jib. 

628
00:36:07,900 --> 00:36:10,000
First of all, you're not the 
first one talking about the 

629
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,800
electricity bill and and the 
fuel your gas in the car. 

630
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,800
Several people have asked me 
that question. 

631
00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:22,800
Yes that that's that's a A 
simple model, you know, you go, 

632
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,900
you pay a certain amount of 
money for for a gallon of fuel 

633
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,500
or for, you know, unit of 
electricity. 

634
00:36:31,100 --> 00:36:33,400
But here you blocked. 
You're talking about multiple 

635
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,200
services. 
So, like, for example, password 

636
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,800
reset could be One servers new 
user provisioning could be an 

637
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,300
alder surface and they're going 
to be obviously different value 

638
00:36:43,300 --> 00:36:46,000
that you see under those 
services and the money that you 

639
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,300
would be dealing too big. 
So it's a great analogy because 

640
00:36:49,300 --> 00:36:50,800
that's what really works out 
here. 

641
00:36:51,700 --> 00:36:55,300
That's that's a fundamental on 
which it is based, but the same 

642
00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:59,700
time you, you got to stop 
somewhere on that because this 

643
00:36:59,700 --> 00:37:02,600
is more complex than that, but 
the fundamental remains that. 

644
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,400
It's based on consumption. 
The second part that you talked 

645
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,200
about and again that questions 
been asked by multiple people to

646
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,500
me, you know, talking about 
electricity as a par 

647
00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:16,200
consumption, could be very high 
in Winter and very small. 

648
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,100
And it could be 1 is to 3, kind 
of a ratio that. 

649
00:37:19,700 --> 00:37:22,400
So that's very unpredictable. 
How do you really take care of 

650
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,900
that? 
Again, we have we've got some 

651
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,000
wonderful dashboards, which are 
real time online dashboards that

652
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,900
we provide where you can really 
look at the trends that you have

653
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,300
where you look at not just what 
you're consuming, as as an 

654
00:37:38,300 --> 00:37:42,100
organization, but you can slice 
and dice it to departments and 

655
00:37:42,100 --> 00:37:44,600
for the first time and this 
model, make we're making those 

656
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,300
things available where you can 
look at how the trends are. 

657
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,800
You can see last year, what 
happened? 

658
00:37:51,300 --> 00:37:55,200
And if you want to smoothen that
we have got in the model that 

659
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,000
also possible. 
So we can smoothen that to you 

660
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,200
for you so that you don't want 
to do. 

661
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,200
One, two, three kind of 
consumption over the year. 

662
00:38:04,700 --> 00:38:07,600
You can smoothen that as well, 
but that will depend on the 

663
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,400
trend your Trend and not the 
general Trend in the market. 

664
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,600
So it's very specific to you. 
That's a beauty. 

665
00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:16,000
Yeah, I do like the idea of 
smoothing it. 

666
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,600
I mean that's something that the
electric company will let you do

667
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,100
is like what they know your 
consumption model they can. 

668
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:26,200
Can kind of use a predictable, 
even per month, payment, things 

669
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,300
like that. 
But but no, you've been super 

670
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:34,100
generous with your time with us 
today, kind of talking about 

671
00:38:34,100 --> 00:38:39,300
this consumption based pricing 
model and as you know about our 

672
00:38:39,300 --> 00:38:42,100
show we like to end on a lighter
note. 

673
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:47,700
One of the things that we picked
up on with I Lantus and we 

674
00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:49,600
understand you're the Mastermind
behind. 

675
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:57,100
Those is kind of a Spiritual 
focus on on your company and 

676
00:38:57,100 --> 00:39:00,500
identity and access management 
and really it's kind of a tie 

677
00:39:00,500 --> 00:39:04,200
back to yoga. 
And I said to Jeff, I think yoga

678
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,600
is just exercise right? 
What's the spiritual piece? 

679
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,400
So I'm sure you're going to give
us an education on that. 

680
00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:16,900
But the way we framed it up is 
what is the yoga pose? 

681
00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:20,000
That most describes I am I'm 
going to start with Jeff then 

682
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,100
I'll give my answer, then we'll 
kick. 

683
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,700
Take it to you because I know 
you're going to give us more 

684
00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:28,200
than just, it's some kind of 
posed or exercise. 

685
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,300
But Jeff. 
What is the, I am yoga pose 

686
00:39:33,100 --> 00:39:35,300
that? 
Or what is that, the yoga pose? 

687
00:39:35,300 --> 00:39:37,700
That, that reminds you of? 
I am and why? 

688
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:39,200
All right. 
Well, this is going to 

689
00:39:39,207 --> 00:39:42,400
definitely show some iater. 
It's all apologize in advance. 

690
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,500
I know, yoga is more than just 
exercise and I think, you know, 

691
00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:47,100
I read a little bit of a 
Wikipedia article. 

692
00:39:47,100 --> 00:39:49,100
So I kind of consider myself a 
little bit of an expert. 

693
00:39:49,100 --> 00:39:50,700
There's different 
interpretations. 

694
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,000
Based on whether you're in the 
west or the East and kind of 

695
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:59,600
where it came from. 
I will take a view that I 

696
00:39:59,607 --> 00:40:06,200
believe I am is most represented
by twisty three-legged down dog,

697
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,100
which is sounds as complicated 
as it is. 

698
00:40:10,100 --> 00:40:13,600
Because that is how it is, and I
feel like if you're in the I am 

699
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,500
space. 
As a practitioner, you're 

700
00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:19,000
probably spreading out a whole 
bunch of different ways that 

701
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,000
aren't natural sometimes. 
But you we'll get it done. 

702
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,100
And that's why I always have fun
like this phrase of you behind 

703
00:40:25,100 --> 00:40:26,100
the scenes, there's like a bunch
of. 

704
00:40:26,100 --> 00:40:28,400
I am Heroes that are actually 
making things work for an 

705
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,500
organization, despite whatever 
the issues are that are out 

706
00:40:31,500 --> 00:40:33,400
there. 
So I think of twisty 

707
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,700
three-legged down dog which is 
sort of like your your hands are

708
00:40:36,700 --> 00:40:38,300
on the ground. 
You've got your feet and I've 

709
00:40:38,300 --> 00:40:41,000
got your back kind of arch and 
then you take one of your legs 

710
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,100
and you try to pull it as far 
back as possible. 

711
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,700
It sounds awkward because it is 
and I think that's that's the 

712
00:40:46,700 --> 00:40:48,800
one I'm gonna go with. 
Not bad, not bad. 

713
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,400
I was thinking about this. 
Because we decided this was 

714
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,000
going to be the question ahead 
of time. 

715
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,700
And I know there's a series of 
poses called binds great. 

716
00:40:58,700 --> 00:41:01,900
And I feel like having been an 
IM practitioner, you're in a 

717
00:41:01,900 --> 00:41:05,200
bind a lot, right? 
You're just really uncomfortable

718
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,000
position and doing something 
that a human body is not meant 

719
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,400
to do and you're sweating and 
all. 

720
00:41:11,500 --> 00:41:15,500
But what I shifted to was 
something a little more with a 

721
00:41:15,500 --> 00:41:20,000
positive lien, which is a pose 
called Warrior Two and by the 

722
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,500
time you get into Warrior Two. 
You're, you know, you're really 

723
00:41:24,500 --> 00:41:27,900
building up that that lather, 
that good, sweat, and you're in 

724
00:41:27,900 --> 00:41:32,100
a position of strength but 
you're also in a position where 

725
00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:36,000
you have to have balance. 
So I think there's just so many 

726
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,800
aspects that the I am 
practitioner has to have all 

727
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,300
those things you have to have a 
little bit of experience. 

728
00:41:43,300 --> 00:41:46,500
In other words, you have to have
been you're like Midway through 

729
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,700
the routine at that point. 
And so that's I'm going to go 

730
00:41:50,700 --> 00:41:52,900
with R2 plus a sounds really 
cool. 

731
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,500
So now, but node, maybe you 
could take. 

732
00:41:55,500 --> 00:41:57,700
I'm sure you. 
Do you have an eye in practice 

733
00:41:57,700 --> 00:42:00,900
where you do our? 
I'm sorry, a yoga practice where

734
00:42:00,900 --> 00:42:04,100
you do some of these poses. 
So maybe you can start there but

735
00:42:04,100 --> 00:42:08,000
then maybe you can educate us a 
little bit more going beyond the

736
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:09,600
exercise routine. 
Sure. 

737
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:14,300
So very interesting question, 
thanks because this is one of my

738
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:19,200
favorite practices and as well 
as subject matter in which I've 

739
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,900
been doing a little bit of work.
So So deep washer that really 

740
00:42:23,900 --> 00:42:27,200
strikes me. 
When I look at, I am, is what 

741
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,900
the call is called in Sanskrit, 
from where, you know, yoga uses 

742
00:42:31,900 --> 00:42:33,800
the Sanskrit as the original 
language. 

743
00:42:34,100 --> 00:42:38,700
It's called the serve on gassin,
which means, full body posture, 

744
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,500
and it's actually a combination 
of nine, different postures. 

745
00:42:43,100 --> 00:42:47,600
So it's one sweeping movement, 
you know, takes about maybe 

746
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:52,300
about 30 seconds or 40 seconds. 
You are Actually doing nine 

747
00:42:52,300 --> 00:42:56,000
different postures. 
That's actually the synthesis of

748
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,800
the entire yoga, all the 
partial. 

749
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,800
So they say that. 
Even if you're not doing 

750
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,400
anything else, if you just do 
this, this is this is it. 

751
00:43:04,700 --> 00:43:07,900
And that's what I say to my 
customers and to the market 

752
00:43:07,900 --> 00:43:11,000
that, you know, you may not be 
doing some other things in the 

753
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,500
information security. 
But if you're doing, I am that's

754
00:43:15,500 --> 00:43:17,800
that's a full body partial. 
Like so you have 0. 

755
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,400
So that's the washer that comes 
to my mind. 

756
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:26,300
Having said that, you know, as 
Jeff, you rightly said yoga is 

757
00:43:26,300 --> 00:43:31,200
not about exercise. 
It's far from exercise, it's not

758
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,500
a system for the body alone. 
It's for the body mind, Spirit 

759
00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:38,800
bringing about certain a great 
balance between the three. 

760
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,500
And I, if I can put it in a very
simple way, it's about 

761
00:43:42,500 --> 00:43:45,600
controlling the mind. 
If you do that for a while, and 

762
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,300
if you do it right, you will 
have your mind, the monkey mind 

763
00:43:49,300 --> 00:43:51,900
and a control, which is one of 
the most Difficult takes to do 

764
00:43:51,900 --> 00:43:54,400
for anybody. 
I've been doing some research in

765
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:59,900
the area of wall, yoga, how to 
use it for, controlling your 

766
00:43:59,900 --> 00:44:04,500
energy centers in the body. 
And that's being I don't know 

767
00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:07,400
whether you've heard, Jeff and 
Jim about a technology called 

768
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,000
bio photonics in our body emits 
photons. 

769
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,200
In the quantum theory, that was 
known long ago. 

770
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:19,600
But now it can be seen and if 
you can measure the photons 

771
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,200
coming out, the pattern of the 
photons coming out of your body,

772
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,600
you can really measure your 
physical and your emotional 

773
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,000
states, physical and emotional 
states here. 

774
00:44:29,900 --> 00:44:34,100
And I'm trying to look at as one
of my favorite practices right 

775
00:44:34,100 --> 00:44:36,700
now and the time that I'm 
spending and doing some research

776
00:44:37,100 --> 00:44:41,100
to see as to how some of the 
things specially the breathing 

777
00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:49,300
exercises and yoga, how they can
be used to cleanse to to find 

778
00:44:49,300 --> 00:44:52,000
solution to some of the problems
with Body and mind system. 

779
00:44:52,500 --> 00:44:56,200
So if so, I think it's really 
interesting, I think it's really

780
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,900
interesting, the bio photonics 
is not something that I had 

781
00:44:58,900 --> 00:45:00,500
heard about, until you mentioned
it. 

782
00:45:00,500 --> 00:45:04,500
So I definitely no expert on it.
But it seems interesting. 

783
00:45:04,500 --> 00:45:08,700
Just from a, you know, study 
perspective, if I wanted to get 

784
00:45:08,700 --> 00:45:12,400
into yoga, where should I start?
Very interesting question. 

785
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:19,000
So, all the most popular yoga is
is something which is, which is 

786
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,600
got eight steps. 
In the first step has nothing to

787
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,100
do with posture signal. 
First two steps have nothing to 

788
00:45:26,100 --> 00:45:28,100
do with it. 
The first step is all about 

789
00:45:28,300 --> 00:45:33,800
training yourself a little bit 
and putting your energy of the 

790
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,600
day in One Direction. 
So as human beings, what we do 

791
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,300
we say hey we got to lose some 
weight, we got to become more 

792
00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:45,400
healthy and so we go and we 
join, join the gym and we're 

793
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,000
spending an hour with that and 
you come out of there. 

794
00:45:48,100 --> 00:45:50,800
So the energy is being diverted 
is taken in One Direction. 

795
00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:52,700
Action. 
And you come back and two hours 

796
00:45:52,700 --> 00:45:57,200
later you were having a pizza. 
So, your energy now is traveling

797
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,200
in the opposite direction, 
right? 

798
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,400
Or you never went to the gym and
you're still eating the pizza? 

799
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,200
Yes. 
Still eating the pizza or doing 

800
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,900
something else. 
So the first step in yoga is to 

801
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,500
try to channelize your energy in
One Direction. 

802
00:46:11,500 --> 00:46:14,700
That's the first step. 
And the second one is, once you 

803
00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:18,100
have been able to do that, then 
you go and try to look at 

804
00:46:18,500 --> 00:46:20,700
setting. 
Some not exactly rules. 

805
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,700
But some code of conduct for 
yourself that the Second Step 

806
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,900
only in the third step, which 
is, the first true physical step

807
00:46:27,900 --> 00:46:30,100
of yoga. 
You talk about learning how to 

808
00:46:30,100 --> 00:46:31,900
sit. 
And that's the most important 

809
00:46:31,900 --> 00:46:35,900
that's the beginning. 
If you're able to sit without 

810
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:41,200
any, you know, without moving 
your body for even two minutes, 

811
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:42,500
I think you've attained 
something. 

812
00:46:42,700 --> 00:46:45,700
That's the first step in you 
that discipline that convert 

813
00:46:45,700 --> 00:46:47,800
concentration. 
I would imagine is very helpful 

814
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,900
as you kind of find some sort of
Center, see Cool eyes against. 

815
00:46:53,100 --> 00:46:54,200
Okay? 
I know you've been very generous

816
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,700
with your time and want to let 
you get on with your evening. 

817
00:46:56,700 --> 00:46:59,300
You're joining us all the way 
from India which is fantastic. 

818
00:46:59,300 --> 00:47:01,800
So I know we got a lot of folks 
who are listening in that part 

819
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:03,400
of the world that will be 
interested to hear this 

820
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:07,000
conversation. 
We talked about Perpetual 

821
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,200
license to shifting to 
subscription to. 

822
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,400
Now, this option of paper use 
what are some final thoughts 

823
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,200
that you might have that? 
The folks listening out there 

824
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,400
might have been. 
So as you pointed out I think 

825
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:26,100
this This model of purchase is 
is is the one that is going to. 

826
00:47:27,500 --> 00:47:31,400
There is no option because the 
customers need a model like 

827
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,800
this, this is where the industry
is going to go. 

828
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,000
We are happy that we have set 
this trend up in the eye in 

829
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,400
space. 
But as Jim Riley pointed out, 

830
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,300
this is going to be fast 
forward. 

831
00:47:43,700 --> 00:47:46,300
And there are three to four 
years, and I think it would be 

832
00:47:46,300 --> 00:47:49,600
much more of paper use than 
subscription that you'll be C. 

833
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,600
So my Final thoughts would be an
advice to my to two areas of the

834
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:59,300
community members and I in to 
not just not just to the 

835
00:47:59,300 --> 00:48:02,900
customers but to people who are 
manufacturing software like us 

836
00:48:03,700 --> 00:48:06,700
to be looking at it seriously 
and try to do this over a period

837
00:48:06,700 --> 00:48:10,200
of time. 
So because eventually we got to 

838
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,600
look at what works for the 
customer. 

839
00:48:12,900 --> 00:48:14,400
Not work. 
What works for us. 

840
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,800
And if we look at what works for
the customer, things would work 

841
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:19,700
out for us. 
That's what that's our belief in

842
00:48:19,700 --> 00:48:22,300
Atlantis. 
Nobody's buying it node. 

843
00:48:22,900 --> 00:48:24,200
We're not going to stick around 
for a while. 

844
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,600
So it's important. 
How about Jim final thoughts for

845
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:27,500
this week? 
Yeah. 

846
00:48:27,500 --> 00:48:31,400
Just thinking along those lines 
was you know, when I've worked 

847
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,900
with clients over time and we 
get into our what is software 

848
00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:38,600
going to cost usually there's 
questions around. 

849
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,100
Well, how much are you going to 
use the software? 

850
00:48:42,100 --> 00:48:43,700
How many administrators do you 
have? 

851
00:48:43,700 --> 00:48:48,000
It's hard sometimes to even get 
that information, but kind of 

852
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,500
dialing it back. 
Like the, the more information 

853
00:48:50,500 --> 00:48:53,600
you have About how many 
workflows, how many logins you 

854
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:58,000
have things like that. 
That's going to give you help 

855
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,600
you with the predictability 
thing which I think is probably 

856
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:07,000
the biggest hurdle to this model
but I think this model would 

857
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,900
revolutionize things and that in
the in the end it's going to put

858
00:49:10,900 --> 00:49:15,500
the power back in the hands of 
those folks who are making the 

859
00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:18,800
purchasing decisions. 
So given that. 

860
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,700
I mean that's my wrap up on 
this. 

861
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,900
Or Sation and just wanted to 
kind of go back to our original 

862
00:49:23,900 --> 00:49:27,200
point about Gartner in a couple 
of weeks. 

863
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,500
But node you're going to be a 
gardener I'm planning to be 

864
00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:31,100
there. 
Yes. 

865
00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:34,500
Okay good. 
So hopefully we can meet in 

866
00:49:34,500 --> 00:49:39,100
person and other folks who are 
listening can meet you as well 

867
00:49:39,300 --> 00:49:43,200
and certainly reach out to us on
LinkedIn and and connect. 

868
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,500
I'm somebody who will accept 
pretty much every connection 

869
00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:49,400
that comes through. 
How about you just yeah, yeah, I

870
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,900
think, yeah, definitely. 
At us, we would definitely want 

871
00:49:51,900 --> 00:49:55,400
to do fist bumps, whatever the 
the greeting du jour is the 

872
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,800
time. 
Looking forward to finally meet 

873
00:49:57,800 --> 00:49:59,600
you face-to-face below which be 
great. 

874
00:50:00,300 --> 00:50:03,800
You know, you talked Jim about 
some of those metrics that are 

875
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,100
important to kind of figure out 
the consumption model and my 

876
00:50:07,100 --> 00:50:10,400
thought is those are things that
you should probably already be 

877
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:14,200
doing anyway as an IM program. 
How are you measuring success? 

878
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,800
Do you have a dashboard that 
tracks, those sorts of things? 

879
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,600
Anyway, if you don't think about
it, right? 

880
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,700
Doesn't doesn't mean you have to
have It overnight, and a lot of 

881
00:50:21,707 --> 00:50:24,300
these things you kind of build 
up over time, but I think having

882
00:50:24,300 --> 00:50:27,500
that dashboard of how many 
users, you know how many 

883
00:50:27,500 --> 00:50:29,300
provisioning actions are being 
taken, how many, it's 

884
00:50:29,300 --> 00:50:31,800
indications authorizations, you 
know, things like that. 

885
00:50:31,900 --> 00:50:34,000
It's certainly helpful to at 
least demonstrate, you know, 

886
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,100
what is going on for my Denny 
perspective within an 

887
00:50:36,100 --> 00:50:39,300
organization but I'll leave it. 
There definitely will be a 

888
00:50:39,300 --> 00:50:41,100
gardener, you know, ping us. 
If you're going to be there, 

889
00:50:41,100 --> 00:50:43,900
we'd love to meet. 
Come watch us record a show. 

890
00:50:44,100 --> 00:50:45,900
Come be on the show. 
Well, I don't know if we have 

891
00:50:45,900 --> 00:50:48,800
any room slots that Jim's 
committed me now to an entire 

892
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,700
week of editing. 
It sounds like four shows of 

893
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,600
Wing week, but we'll go ahead 
and leave it there. 

894
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,900
The node, I will leave in our 
show notes, a link to your 

895
00:50:57,900 --> 00:51:00,400
LinkedIn, so folks can reach out
to you if they've got questions,

896
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,100
and I'll definitely put a linked
for. 

897
00:51:02,100 --> 00:51:06,600
I Lantus.com IL EST en tus.com 
there as well. 

898
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:08,800
So people can check out what you
guys have going on. 

899
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:10,800
Definitely check out the paper 
you stuff because it gives 

900
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,100
interesting the model that you 
guys have come up with and I see

901
00:51:13,100 --> 00:51:15,400
a lot of value in it. 
I am sure there are folks who 

902
00:51:15,408 --> 00:51:17,600
are interested they can reach 
out to you but not if that's 

903
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,200
cool via our show notes or via 
LinkedIn. 

904
00:51:20,500 --> 00:51:22,400
So, With that we'll go ahead and
leave it for this week. 

905
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,900
You can find us on the web 
identity of center.com. 

906
00:51:24,900 --> 00:51:28,800
We're on Twitter at idea. 
See podcast the live stream will

907
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,000
return at some point but we tell
how always have our replays on 

908
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,400
YouTube, idac dot live and with 
that we'll go ahead and leave 

909
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,200
it. 
Thanks everyone for listening 

910
00:51:37,300 --> 00:51:39,200
and we'll talk with everyone in 
the next one. 

911
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,500
Thanks for listening to the 
identity at the center podcast. 

912
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:46,900
If you like what you heard, 
don't forget to subscribe and 

913
00:51:46,900 --> 00:51:50,000
visit us on the web and identity
at the center.com.