You're listening to the identity of the center podcast.
This is a show that talks about identity and access management
and making sure you know who has access to what let's get
started. Welcome to the identity of the
sender podcast. I'm Jeff then that's Jim.
Hey, Jim, hey, Jeff, how are you?
I've got a sneaky smile on your face, seek his follow my face
because I think I've got a well, for me, a fun topic to bring up,
which is, you know, we've really become, I think you and I to our
core were conference junkies. We really like to go to
conferences. You went to a conference this
week and, you know, that was to navigate conference.
But I thought, what was Interesting is you're really
starting to live the small airport life.
So you know I've been in Augusta Georgia.
Now for about eight years. Augusta is not a major city in
the United States. For those who don't know, be
prior to that, I lived in Charlotte and that in New
Jersey. So I had Newark airport, but
I've been doing this, you know, the the commuter shuttle from
Augusta to Atlanta. Sometimes I just drive to
Atlanta because it's their show. Shuttle flights a there's always
something goes wrong with them. So now you've got a new story.
So why don't you share it? You're living in Asheville and
so you're doing your show, it is definitely different.
So, coming from the Chicago area O'Hare used to be my main base
and I'll hair is like one of the busiest airports in the world
where I can get anywhere on one flight and yeah might be busy
and sometimes the way but it's pretty consistent.
Yeah. Having moved to Asheville which
is in Western North Carolina and the mountains and I'm a grizzled
mountain man. I take a commuter flight from
Asheville Airport. Or into Atlanta.
And yeah, I was coming home last night and I was coming from
Austin to Atlanta and then Atlanta to Asheville.
And, you know, it's a long day of travel, whatever.
You know, start to fly into Asheville where honor descent
were about to land. And all of a sudden, notice the
plane banking like, okay? Well, like, you know what
happens, you know, why are we turn it?
You know, like, why are we turning?
We should be like, going straight, you know, and landing.
And this has happened before, you know, one of my flights to
Monterey, I might have mentioned in a previous episode.
We were about to land. And and then the pilot psycho.
Yeah, we're having to make another turn because there was
another plane on the runway. Like okay, well thank you for
that. That's probably a good idea.
And so we got, you know, we're kind of wondering what's going
on and pilot comes on and he's like, folks little bit of ground
problem in Asheville. There is a plane has crashed on
the runway. It was like, oh wow.
Alright, that's not good. And we're being, you know, we're
we're going to circle around and figure out what to do and we
ended up getting diverted. To Greenville, which is a few
hours south of the Asheville area.
And I guess what happened was a small little like Piper Cub type
plane came in for a landing, just ahead of us.
They were like the plane right before us.
And they landed and their landing gear fields and
basically crash-landed. And, you know, basically took up
the entire Runway because Asheville only has one Runway.
So it blocked all air traffic for probably a good three or
four hours, you know. I they took us to A Greenville.
They gave us the option and they're like, well it's gonna be
at least an hour so you can either stay on the plane or you
can get off and kind of hang around the, you know, the the
gate there until they have an ETA or you know for people who
could do it, just go from there where they want to.
So I chose the last option, I was like, all right, I could you
know, play the you can I can gamble and maybe the fight will
be ready. Like it's a plane crash.
Doesn't sound like that's something.
I'm going to clean up relatively easy especially at a small
airport like that. So I just I got a, I got a lift
and, you know, when to the app and yeah, to our lift ride
later, I was home. And that was my first, that's
been my first real negative experience.
I think we're, you know, I'm glad people were okay and people
were okay in the, in the plane crash.
But yeah, that's that's that's a great curveball for the end of a
week of travel and then, you know, you're in your last row
and you're literally like descending.
You're about to lay on and then you like.
Nope, just kidding. We're going to take you a couple
ourself Yeah you can almost smell home but you did a couple
of things that you're in this doing the small airport thing
that you never check a bag. Never check a bag, do anything
you can to avoid checking bag. And then number two of you did
which I thought was you know really risky but really work out
for you is getting the lift and you said it was only two hundred
dollars to go to out and then couldn't tip that's
mind-blowing. That is my mouth is a lot
cheaper than Chicago. Let's just say it that would
have probably been like a three or Hundred dollar lift in Uber,
you know, coolant in the Chicago area.
But yeah, for whatever reason, yeah, I went to Greenville
Airport, very nice airport, it's a really nice airport actually.
And yeah, my guy arum took me from Greenville all the way up
to my place in Asheville. So kudos to him, I certainly
tipped. Well too because I know what a
pain in the butt, that was probably for him, especially
like he's basically two hours out of his area and now he's got
to drive back. So I made sure we took care of
the guy. Yeah, that's good.
Good looks good. So yeah you know conference
junkies we obviously had to be in withdrawal for a couple of
years during the pandemic but things are back.
You know. I also wanted to just mention
that we are going to a conference the week after next
which is the Fido authenticate conference.
We're going to podcast from they're hoping to put together
for five episodes while were there at the conference.
So we're going to have another one.
Is you know, splurges or binges of content so really look
forward to that. You know we're getting hit with
those almost daily or maybe even Delhi episodes for about a week
I'll do my best and then it is easy for me to make these
promises because I have to do all the editing.
I just have right, your pretty face.
Just it's just a pretty face on the audio only podcast, and then
we've got the OCTA octane conference That were doing in
November. Your goal is to do the same
thing there and you know kind of topic of conversation today.
I wanted to give a thank you to Identity OG Jackson Shaw, who's
now over a clear sky for making the introduction to our guests
today. So he's Gary row, he's a
longtime identity OG himself. For those who don't know, OG is
Original Gangster, which its A funny term when you added to
something like identity, but it's funny because I was talking
to Gary and we're talking about a conference called digital
identity World, which was like my first identity management
conference all the way back in 2006.
I went to it and it was just like, such a great event, you
know, Kim Cameron was there giving his giving his laws of
identity, it was brand new at the time.
So, you know, just really good. Memories.
But, you know, I thought I know we're going to get into
conferences and all today, so I'll stop talking about it and
hand it back to you. Yeah, well, you, let's go ahead
and introduce the man, the myth. The legend he is Gary row.
He's the founder CEO and principal Consulting Analyst at
Tech Vision research. Welcome to the show officially
Gary. Well, thank you.
It's absolute pleasure to be here.
I'm I thank Jackson for the for the intro and I'm excited to
talk about the area. We all mutually love.
So let's let's get into the Chrysalis conference in a minute
because first, I want to find out more about Gary.
The identity person, tell me how you got into the identity and
access management space. Is it something that you chose
or did you find that? It actually chose you, you know,
it's kind of a combination of things.
You know, it's funny you're talking about the the early days
in the, you know, 2005-6 time frame.
Mmmmm why early days were were many many years or decades
earlier in the space. And, you know, one of the things
since early in my career, I always seem to track was what
was the next big thing. And it started with kind of the
shift from mainframes to many computers, as with data General,
and digital Equipment Corporation and then it was the
movement And two pc's. And although I didn't work for a
PC vendor, it dawned on me that darn all of these things need to
be harnessed, they need to connect to one, another still
pre-internet, at least commercial use of the internet.
And so I got involved in network, operating systems and a
lot of those kinds of things. And then I was in the, this is
all, you know. 80s and so late 80s.
I was director of core technology at AT&T that was
making a foray into the public messaging market and if you're
doing email you have to have directories and that was part of
my team. And so we looked at directory
Services across All of the carriers and I participate as
AT&T is rep to this thing called the North American directory
forum. And there was a consultancy that
was actually chairing that called report communication that
had Ted Meyer chairing it and Dan Blom and I joined them left
AT&T as an identity messaging consultant throughout the 90s
and Report got a pretty good name in the industry.
She got involved with a lot of the early directory Technologies
directory and the gate integration Technologies meta
director. He's a lot of those kinds of
things and then my company merged with Burton group in 1998
and I took over as president shortly thereafter.
And you know, we chatted about digital ID, we're old.
We had our own conference, it was pretty well-known.
In the identity circles called Catalyst.
And so we ran that I was there for 12 years through the through
the acquisition by Gartner was then co-president of what
Gartner calls now Gartner for technical professionals along
with Jamie Lewis and but in the burden group days, you know, I
think we made some real marks in identity.
And looked at areas like the formalization of schemas
relative to ldap and we looked at areas such as the Liberty
Alliance and Federation and standardization on sam'l and
actually Incorporated. A lot of those things both into
our research or advocacy, and our conference.
So fast, forward left Gartner, and I actually was involved with
a start-up company because I had a lot of long-term non-compete
was involved with the startup company that called respect
Network. I was their CEO and then
chairman that got acquired by or it merged with ever and M and
got acquired by a vast recently in the decentralized identity
space when I kind of closed. Out that chapter, I formed
another research company, and that's Tech Vision research.
And, you know, I felt that, you know, it kind of sounds funny to
say this, but I felt that subsequent to the sale of Burton
group to Gartner, we created a bit of a gap in the market.
I wanted to fill that Gap with with tech Vision, including the
conference Chrysalis that that I know we'll chat about So that
was kind of my journey. I I've had the opportunity under
techvision being a smaller company to get much more back
into the analysts, and the Consulting roles and a lot of
those kinds of things is Burton group grew.
You know, I for years, I was kind of the business guy driving
our growth and doing a lot of those kinds of things.
So I'm having a lot of fun. Now, with our company and can I
say a few words about tech Vision?
Yeah, I was going to ask you because I For people who aren't
familiar to check Vision, you know, what is you mentioned,
research group and there's, there's obviously, you know,
players in this space. But tell us what tech division.
Does sure it my vision with tech vision from the beginning was
what Jamie. And I started at Burton group,
Circa 1998, 1999 2000, which was to take great consultants, in
great analysts and bring them together.
And so, with Activision I've had the opportunity to do that from
the beginning because you know if you just do research you can
be very your analytical but you don't necessarily get a full
understanding of what's happening on the ground, right?
How things get done in large organizations if you're a just a
consultancy, you know, you're not getting the things that we
get in terms of regular vendor briefings Do the primary
research, write the reports, and so forth.
So everyone on our team is very senior much, like may not just
an age but in terms of experience, but we but we have
equal parts, the kind of pragmatic on the ground
Consulting where we're in the middle of doing a project with a
large healthcare provider and some of the insights, they are
actually going into a research report.
Port. We're in the process of writing
with the about the Microsoft entra offering because they were
at some decision points with respect to that.
So we did a lot of research will package that and our perspective
into a research reports. We see that as very synergistic
and then the third leg on the stool is is developing a
conference and, you know, from the conference side, it's not a
little tricky, you know, I Just so we did our inaugural
conference in November of 2019 and made commitments to do it.
I was going to grow it every year and and, and do it for for
several years. And then obviously couldn't
couldn't. So this will be only our second
in person conference. Last year, we did one virtually
the first year in 2020. We we didn't do.
Ooh, either so that. So, there was a bit of a gap,
but the ability to bring this community together and I can
talk a little bit as this proceeds, about some of the
speakers, you know, for a relatively small intimate event.
I'm just thrilled with the quality of just experts and
identity, and security, and privacy and governance.
You know, we've been able to to attract.
Yeah, I'm sure it's pretty humbling.
Look, just looking at the list it's like household.
Teams in our industry, right? I thought you brought up such an
interesting point, there about Consulting, and versus being, an
analyst or research is Jeff. And I have been doing strategic
advisor together for over five years.
And what we always say is that when you go in and you're in
that advisory situation, your clients expect you to know
everything, right? You need to understand how their
business works. How, you know, all the nuances
of modern, I t+ Legacy it, as well as know, every product in
the marketplace. And I think we did a pretty good
job of, you know, making sure we were jack of all trades, but
let's be real, nobody knows everything.
So, definitely that point that you made resonated.
So, so Gary. Now you're the CEO of tech
Vision research and you put it on this conference called the
Chrysalis conference. Hey, the Question, that came to
my mind, was, how did you come up with the name Chrysalis?
Well, it's there's, there's kind of two aspects to it.
The the first one, and the reason I even knew, or thought
about the term, was it sounds like you guys are both in the
southwest. I lived in the Atlanta area in
Roswell for for a long period of time.
I'm in San Diego now but we had our kids in a private school.
School and it was called the Chrysalis experiential Academy.
And you know, it was based on this concept that, you know,
kids learn a lot more with experience so they infused a lot
of things in the program at very, very small school and so
that got me thinking about it. But you know, when we came up
with a name this was 2019 and every Company and their brothers
were in the process of talking about digital transformation.
And so, we look at these things, from a security perspective, and
identity perspective of governance perspective.
And so as I started to think about it, you know, the the the
biological, you know Chrysalis process is, you know, moving
from a caterpillar to a butterfly.
And you're in this it you're at this point where you're this
kind of amorphous mass is very vulnerable but they but there's
a cocoon around it, right? So there's this hard protective
shell, I see that, I saw it years ago, I see it even more.
So now you know as we're dealing with the the rampant digital
expansion, you know, driven by covid and lockdowns and so
forth. That's where you're most
vulnerable. Ball.
So it's security, its identity, its these pieces around it.
You know, one of the things that that, that I say that you guys
probably agree with just given the nature of this podcast, but
I honestly believe it that identity is the most important
element of a digital Enterprise program.
That digital transformation is a lot of the consultancies call
it. So, you know, the so that's the
Since behind but behind Chrysalis was the case in 2019.
It's absolutely the case. Now and it really fits in with
the theme of our company and our conference.
Hey pretty up to concept of digital transformation.
So I love that whole tie in but you bring up that that Concept
in such a big concept, that can mean so many things to so many
organizations, right? And it's usually goes beyond
just the Nuts and bolts of it, but starts to pull in other
areas of the business, Jeff and I are still, you know, doing
consulting where our SM now and we work within a practice called
cyber transformation to me. That starts to narrow down the
digital transformation element, our digital transformation into
its element around cybersecurity.
So to me, the term cyber transformation is all about what
is the Charity component to digital transformation.
So I just thought that was interesting that you brought
that up, because I think a big part for me is like, when I hear
these new terms, like digital transformation or zero trust,
it's like I have to be able to put it into some contacts that I
can associate with. Based on my past six.
I want to learn more about the conference so who's it for, when
is it occurring? Where is it going to be at all?
That good stuff. Sure, the the References
November 7th to the ninth it's and the San Diego area on
Coronado Island at the Loews Coronado.
You can find out about it, just go into Tech Vision
research.com. It's it's a it's going to be a
small conference. It's very content Centric.
There's going to be a really strong wrong signal to noise
ratio, you know, at the conference it is and and and and
this is one of the reasons I appreciate the the opportunity
to, you know, be on a podcast like this, you know, everybody
says this and, and I'll use actually a burton group Catalyst
experience to kind of maybe give you a sense for how we look at
conferences. So, you know, as Catalyst groom,
we have, you know, thousands of people towards the end but it
was still very cut. You know, we didn't have
exhibition halls and stuff. It was all about the content.
So, all about, how do we improve identity and security systems
and so forth? But we would leverage the group
of people that was there and do some of these focus groups.
So our VP of marketing at the time, you know, orchestrated
these things and I was in a I was in a room behind, you know,
the one-way mirrors. And and so, so they're talking
about marketing messages and they're they're, you know, we're
unbiased, we're completely vendor-independent focused on
the end user and so on and so forth.
And there were about, you know, 10 of our bigger customers and
prospective customers were in there and they said you can't
use that because everybody says that and then 10 to one of the
guys in the room, basically said the case of Burton group, it's
actually true and that everyone would Shake Our heads.
And, you know, that's that's what I'm looking to do with
Patek vision, and the conference is, you know, to make sure
there's there's so much hype out there to get real world class
experts in front of people that honestly want to help the
Enterprise Mission. So, it's all about the
Enterprise Mission. We, we have vendors participate,
but even the vendor participation, The technician
analysts and we did the same thing with Burton and Catalyst
will have a tech Vision analyst will choreograph this session.
You know, might be privileged access management.
So, we'll say, you know, here's here's where we see Pam, there's
Trends towards Jim Pam and, you know, some of these other kinds
of things. And, you know, here's here's
where we see the market key user requirements and so forth.
And that if there's vendors on the panel will say, what do you
think? What are your experiences with
customers? Where you going?
Because of course, You know, it's while you know, you don't
want vendor marketing pitches you were not building this
stuff. They are.
So you do want to hear, you know what, you know, sale point is
doing and you know, Microsoft and and and the big companies in
this space. So so we look to we look to
balance that but even the people that we get you mentioned
Jackson Jackson from Clear Sky, he's been In this face for 30
years. So to have him on a panel
talking about IGA, you know, he'll give a great industry
perspective and then we'll highlight what clear skies doing
in that area. Pim Dingle from Microsoft, you
know, a very similar thing. She she came to our early
Catalyst conference as we worked with her for four decades.
So, you know, that's, that's really what we're looking to do
in. I guess one other aspect, Is
that it and no disrespect to any of the other conferences.
Ours is just different, I think they're all great in terms of
what they do but our conference it you know if you're doing a
big conference there's going to be a lot of great sessions but
they're all over the place you know you can go to this one and
its technical this one you know is business oriented the way we
characterize Crystal. Alice in, I didn't actually come
up with this, some of our customers did.
After our first conference. They said, you know, this is a
conference with a story. So we look to link all of the
pieces together from day, 1 Day, 2 Day 3 from one session to the
other because frankly in the real world and you know this
from doing your Consulting projects and just your work in
this space, it's all interconnected, you know,
identities farted digital, let's part of security.
It sparked a zero trust. Now we have to think about
privacy and Regulatory controls. And, you know, sometimes there's
there's trade-offs between, you know how much information can
you collect from a security perspective without, you know,
having too much data from regulatory control perspective.
So, you know it all plays together.
So from it and if it makes sense, I can kind of walk
through the general structure of the conference and how the days
will. Whoa, but but the whole thing is
tightly choreographed to basically tell a story and in
day 3 will net it all out with the set of tools and so forth
for the for the Enterprise attendees.
So Gary you also mentioned that piece about Pam and by the way,
we did an episode where we called Pam is dead.
And what about how about a clickbait d title, right?
Pam is dead. I got so many messages about my
from people. We're in the Pam space, right?
But anyway seriously though one of the things I looked at like I
was super impressed by the people who are going to be at
the Chrysalis conference but I also thought, okay those are
folks who all know each other. There have been in this industry
for 20 plus years. If I'm new to the industry, is
there a place for me at my going to feel welcome?
How are you going to take people who don't know all these People
and make sure that they don't feel like they're not in the, in
the group. That's that's, that's a great
question, you know, we will Deep dive into certain topics where
it's required, but but that's part of the conference with the
story, right? Where, you know, we're starting
with, you know, where businesses are going, where Enterprises are
going with, respect to digital Over the last, you know, three
years, a lot of companies were in survival mode.
You had to get your digital connections out there in some
way to survive. So now there's an opportunity to
shore up the identity. The security, a lot of these
pieces. So I think that will be helpful
for somebody who maybe hasn't been as steeped in this over
over long. A time.
And then, on day 3, which will be a half a day, we're going to
look at identity security, and risk, and privacy, and net it
out. Look at we developed tools, we
call reference architectures. So we'll look at a reference
architecture. Dan Bloom has put this fantastic
capability together on and he's getting ready.
We had a meeting on it yesterday.
How to basically update his multi-cloud security reference
architecture that takes all of security.
It certainly ties into nest and some of the things that are out
there. But brings it from the business
perspective, all the way down to the elements that are included
and it's a great checklist for organizations that are trying to
put plans and processes and procedures.
We've done a ton of work, that goes back to the Days.
Developing a capabilities, face security, identity, reference
architecture, Doug Simmons. And I'll walk through that is as
well. And then, Joe Phillips will do
the same thing on the Privacy side.
You know, how do you develop a privacy program?
How do you make some of those decisions that need to be made
relative to some of those trade-offs?
I want to tease out some of the, some of the key themes, you
know, through the agenda as I was looking through it.
There's I think it really kind of kicks off with securing our
digital future, which sounds ominous concerning scary.
And how are we going to do that key?
Is there a way you can give us maybe kind of a sneak peek into
kind of, you know, what is that actually going to address?
Sure. It's I mean, that's my initial
level set which, you know, will basically have tentacles and
throughout the entire program, right?
So a lot of the things that we'll be talking about during
the course of Of, you know, the two-and-a-half days will be the
elements in terms of the identity platforms and IGA
capabilities and and you know, how do we scale some of these
things you know, how do we integrate some of these
Technologies? How do we secure it?
How do we leverage Ai, and machine learning and in all of
these other capabilities to have something that That that we
call. I haven't seen a lot of research
firms really look at it like this but but but we don't just
go with zero trust. And this was Dan blooms
contribution early on WE characterized it as zero across
zero friction. And you know and that that's
another great lesson learned over the last two and a half
years is. Yeah, we can lock things down
from a security perspective and you know, have no customers
actually use it because it's a little bit too cumbersome.
So in this been several cios is we've done projects and ccos
that start with that. You know we have to figure out
how to make this more usable how to make it more attractive.
So so basically these capabilities will be you know,
ingrained we have developed some top-level capabilities, a
digital Enterprise reference architecture that takes the
various environments and kind of brings them in place and that's
a hook on. After the reference
architecture, we doing security and identity and throughout you
start really big and then start to break out the specific
capabilities that that drive the the business needs that you
have. So the new digital Enterprise
you know is is something that we actually don't like using the
the term digital transformation because this is the way that
most of Enterprises will do business it's or maybe it's
constant transformation but you know where this is this is the
way a life for for Enterprises were saying that 34 years ago
and obviously, you know, that is a substantive change that, you
know, occurred over the last two years.
I find it interesting. You know zero trust is sort of
like taking over the world like every every conference I've been
to this year has been kind of a major theme and I think for good
reason, I think there are certainly valid Concepts there
that need to be, you know, part of security strategy and
certainly identity is part of that and I looked through the
agenda and I noticed that there was one from Jay Schumacher, who
is part of Hondas organization. He's the leaves there I am.
And he's talking about identity zero trust and I think it's
interesting this is not coming from, you know, Quote unquote,
I'm analyst right? Or a vendor, it's coming from
somebody who's in the business and doing this on a day in day
out, I love talks like that because I feel like I get more
out of those and understanding sort of the path that others
have taken. You know, the paint.
I'm sure he'll probably share maybe some of the pain and
Lessons Learned and things like that.
And it one of those things is, it's always, you know, it's okay
to get smarter. Right and sort of learn from
those sort of the facts. And, and I see other things like
Is worthless and, you know, upgrading modern if indication
and decentralised and there is a lot of really good topics and
I'm like, sometimes a squirrel, I go to a conference and it's
like, I want to be in this one, and that one, and this one, and
they all happen sort of, at the same time, it's difficult to
kind of consume it all at once, you know, sort of be present for
those conversations. I'm looking forward to hopefully
be able to make it out this year, or next year, I will be
able to make it This year because obviously will be tied
up with, with Octavio, think, which is at the same time it is,
but you've got some really good topics and really good speakers.
And, you know, I think it's, I think it's really cool.
And I'm looking forward to kind of hearing more after the fact
is, is people who kind of attending consume it and see
what their thoughts are, as well.
Yeah, and you know some of the topics like like zero trust, you
know, there's there's so much marketing hype around it.
I spent several days walking around and interviewing vendors
and and Folks, at RSA and there, there were two things that were
more prevalent than than, you know, Starbucks and a big.
City and one was zero trust. The other one was a I am l in
security. And of course, both of those
topics, we will cover at Chrysalis.
But you know, one of the things we spend a lot of time thinking
about it. Both on the Consulting side and
you know, in terms of positioning in the industry, is
kind of the line of demarcation between the hype.
And the reality, you know, part is zero trust is just you know
decade decades-long security practices.
Every time we talk about and we'll hear this in the security
Legends panel, my good friend former colleague.
Frank Fred Cohen, if you guys know Fred when, when he just
hates the term and you know, it's it's, you know, we Have
best practices and we should have been doing this all along
and so forth that said, you know, they're you know, simple
things and this gets into the identity piece as well.
Simple things like the fact that, you know, given you know,
how everything is being distributed right now, you know,
shoot, we've been saying for 20 years and I think it really is
Is now identity. Is this new perimeter?
Because what else are you going to do?
And the basic concept of zero trust where you're going to have
a, you're going to have somebody inside of the firewall and
that's still isn't good. And you know, if you have all
kinds of devices some of the you know iot devices Is all kinds of
ways to access information where highly mobile, you know how, how
can you lock things down? It was funny, we were doing a
doing a research report about 23 year about three, four years ago
on zero trust and networking Sorrell.
Slay maker was doing it, he was pretty new with tech Vision, it
just left Gardener. And so I got on the calls just
to give a little bit of background about tech Vision,
I'm there, you know? No, I'm not really a networking
guy, but I know something about identity and we were on with
Palo Alto and centrify and you know, all of the Cisco.
All the vendors were talking about zero trust networking.
But then I noticed the entire discussion was about identity
and, you know, so, so, and Honda will talk about that will will
have General Motors talk a little bit about that on day,
two as well. In terms of their Ernie, you
know, ended in 20 trust but you know, to have those end-user
case studies to round out the analysis, I think is great.
So Gary at the last Chrysalis, which was in November of last
year and it was virtual, one of the I am Legends, who
participated in that conference was Kim Cameron and now Kim
wrote the laws of identity that was his, you know, his
Masterpiece, if you will back in 2006 and it became an important
part of how the industry looked at online night.
Well, I think most people probably know Kim passed away in
December and you were a close personal friend of his and we
just wanted to give you an opportunity to maybe tell
everyone what people should know about.
Kim, that thank you for giving me the opportunity while I'll
say something about Kim at at at Chrysalis, as well, Um, you
know, he, he loves technology. It's an unwavering passion for
technology but also humanity. And a lot of the the areas that
he got behind over the years, you know, tied into that
intersection, you know, user-centric identity which has
now morphed into some of the decentralized identity and so
forth. He was extremely passionate
about As a person, he was absolute technical genius.
And and I had so many people kind of give me feedback about
this. Kim had actually reached out.
All he had told his family before he passed to reach out to
me because family really, you know, was less cognizant or
professional accomplishments to write his professional obituary
which which It just brings tears to my eyes, even, even
recollecting. But several people stepped up
and they said, you know, it's funny.
You asked the question earlier about what about the people that
are new in this space and I had several people highlight.
That's just what Kim did he made everybody?
Feel like they were the center of attention if they were an
absolute genius in the, I am space or just starting out And
you know, he had that ability and the humanity and he is
driven not, I mean, he's well-known for the loss of
identity, I got to know him in the 90s when you developed this
matter. Directory concept that this
company called Zoom at that Microsoft acquired, we brought
him in he probably spoke at catalysts like 20 times over the
years. And, and the cool thing was even
though he's a Microsoft employee, He would make the the,
the pr people nervous because Kim with say what he was
thinking about, you know, which doesn't always resonate with
with large organizations. One of the reasons we loved
having him on stage though. So yeah, just just and then the
fact that, you know, I, I knew things were not good, but the
fact that it was like, 34 weeks before that, he joined us on to
panel sessions. Because we did it virtually.
And that was, I guess the blessing of doing it virtually.
And I think Kim just love this space so much.
He just wanted to participate. So he was on our identity
Legends panel and he was on our panel for decentralized
identity, which is, as I said, was an area of passion and he,
he had such an impact on on our industry and absolutely will
always always be remembered. Fondly, I think that's probably
at the highest praise that I can think of Of you know,
professionally is you made your mark, you know, it's a rare
thing statistically where, you know, people are.
Are you know, that well regarded in their space right?
And they they go down into the Legends category, right?
If there was like a hall of fame for you know for identity I'm
sure he would be in there along with a bunch of other people and
I think that's that's what we look for right?
Is everyone, kind of want to make some Mark and certainly he
did it which is you know good stuff and such Such a nice guy,
you know, I just just such a such a great person that's even
better. It's going to be.
So I know we want to kind of wrap things up here and keep
Congress at a time. We typically go to a lighter
note towards the end of the conversation.
So I guess in a little bit of sort of an awkward transition
that will hopefully you know bring things back to maybe I'm
sure there were good memories but maybe you know put smiles on
faces is I want to end out this week with a question that came
from our friend, Tom Item over at Southpoint.
We were talking to him earlier today and you know I said I love
we're going to record later and he's I got a good.
He's like I got a good lighter note for him.
I will good. Give it to me because I don't
have one yet and that's just as sometimes How We Roll here is
last minute and he came up with this question which I love how
many devices are currently connected to your home network?
And how many do you recognize? Now before we get into the
answers here, I'm sure there will be answers all over the
place. Case.
I will posit that if you have if you're a betting person I bet I
have the most devices on a network.
If you know me I'm a total nerd and device geek but who knows?
Maybe Jim is a dark horse, maybe Gary's the Dark Horse as well.
Write, that might have some stuff out there.
Gary will start with you how many devices are currently
connected to your home network? And how many of you recognize?
I would say that it's a half a dozen.
So I'm sure I will be on, on the low side, you know, TVs, Wi-Fi.
Routers computers may be up to eight, but but it's, it's, it's
not a big number and I don't have a refrigerator washer dryer
or some of the other, you know, iot enabled devices, but most
importantly, you have your inventory.
So you know, what's on your network?
And it sounds to me like you have a pretty good idea of
what's there. And there are not things that
you're wondering. Hmm, what is that thing?
Yeah, I do. Yeah, that's the way to do it.
Jim about yourself. How many devices are currently
connected to your home network? I'm pretty sure have more than
Gary, right? I think I've got a half dozen
that have Syria right now, but I've got, you know, ring
doorbell. I've got Wi-Fi enabled cameras
and sprinkler systems. I've got two laptops.
Sprinkler system. Yeah, ratio ratio Ratio or ratio
sprinkler system. This is a great invention.
You can see your whole sprinkler thing through a phone app.
It also is connected to weather forecasts, so it will basically,
you can set it up to cancel if there's been a lot of rain, you
know, things like that. So you can really go heavy in
terms of your configuration you can keep it very.
So how many Devices, do you think you have on your network
then do you know? So so the other thing is I have
kids and their friends and they all come over.
They all have phones computers, TVs gaming systems.
I've got to have over 100 but no, I don't have a will have an
exact over 100. That's crazy.
It is. I think I have over 100.
I alway that. You've got me because I'm
looking at my inventory and now I have 44 devices online as we
speak a mix of, you know, everything you Expect in the
house, right? Laptops, computers, phones,
smart devices, cameras, you know, all that good stuff.
And I have a 90 each device is because I am one of those people
who goes into, you know, my my router app labels them.
So I know what they are testing. Things is okay.
Here's this thing that says that it's, you know, from Shenzhen
and it has like no names. Like, alright, I think that's
the camera. Let me go test it out.
Yep, that it is. So so yeah, I would have thought
I would Had had both you guys beat but Jim's.
I mean 100 devices. It's, that's not yeah.
I will show up. When I lived in New Jersey, I
lived in a townhouse community and people would always connect
to my network. So I would always have devices
connected to my Wi-Fi, so I changed my Wi-Fi SSID to we call
the FBI. I figure if people saw that and
they connected to it, then you know, they've Higher risk
tolerance that. I do.
I think I named one of my access points like FBI van number four
in. You know, it's like well waste I
guess that's number 4. Where the other?
Three. Write something like that?
Yeah. If shrunk again drown?
Yeah, people were probably looking left.
Alright, let's go ahead and wrap it up for this week before we go
Gary any final thoughts. I know we talked off all about
the Chrysalis conference and it looks like a fantastic option
for folks that are interested. Anything you want people to take
away from this conversation, we just had I The biggest takeaway
is if you're a large Enterprise and you're trying to figure this
stuff out the, the depth and breadth of presenters in a small
venues. So you'll have an opportunity to
sync up with them throughout the two and a half days.
You will come out of this with a plan input torque.
Birds, you know what you want to do and identity security
governance with with tools and capabilities.
So it's again a very different, you know, type of event.
And and thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk about this.
I sense, we could probably talk identity for like, the next 45
hours. Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, it's it was, it was very cool and I got to tell you, I
hats off for one, your selection of location.
Coronado Island is awesome. San Diego area.
I'm totally big fan of, but yes, I'm very familiar with that.
And it is definitely, I, you know, I'm not going to tell you
that location plays into my confort selection, but it
certainly does help with the ones that that are out there.
So I was always a fan of catalysts as well.
I've been to a few of those and having that in San Diego, there
at think, it's at the think it's, at the Hyatt right by
Seaport Village. That was always a good time.
So yeah, kudos to that. Jim, how about yourself?
Final thoughts for this week? Yeah.
Just thinking about, you know, this topic of there being a
conferences and being the new person I think, heck everybody
was the new person a conference at one point.
I remember one conversation was that they had little, I don't
know if you'd call it badges or a little flags, that would go
under people's name tags and we did indicate, you know, their
member or, you know, whatever. And and one of the flags you can
have the same Ed first-time attendee and what was really
great about that. As you had the first time,
attendee people go out of their way to make sure that.
Hey, do you need any help or, you know hey my name is Jim.
What kind of triggered that is like my attitude.
But I would encourage everybody who, you know, whether you're
new, if you're just pour like, outgoing oriented is to go out
Network, make people feel comfortable making traductions.
You see? Too shy or standing in the
corner. You know, not really part of
what's going on, like, pull them in.
Make them part of what's going on.
At the very least, you're going to probably make a new friend
out of the whole deal. So, you know, that's my attitude
and I would encourage everyone else to do that spoken, like a
true social butterfly that you are.
Yeah, exactly. Right.
We're gonna cut and repair for this week, we will have links to
Gary on LinkedIn. So if you want to get, In touch
with him about something, he mentioned, definitely reach out
that way. Also, for Crystalis the
conference itself, you can find text Vision, research, Tech
version, techvision, research.com all this will be in
our show notes that you can find on our website identity at the
center.com. And we're also on Twitter at
idac podcasts. And yeah, don't forget, we'll be
out of medicate and Octane and in a few weeks here, if your
listener, feel free to come on up last year at a fennec, 8 was
the first time I had ever had a listener.
Come up to me and say, Hey, listen.
Like, oh, that's Cool. And I felt like Garth and you
know from Wayne and Garth and I was like okay and then you know,
kind of sucked away so you can feel free to make me
uncomfortable any time. That would be great.
All right. Well, God leave it there.
Thanks everyone for listening and we'll talk with everyone in
the next one. Thanks for listening to the
identity at the center podcast. If you like what you heard,
don't forget to subscribe and visit us on the web and identity
at the center.com.