1 00:00:09,700 --> 00:00:12,500 You're listening to the identity of the center podcast. 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,600 This is a show that talks about identity and access management 3 00:00:15,700 --> 00:00:18,600 and making sure you know who has access to what let's get 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:25,800 started. Welcome to the identity of the 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,700 sender podcast. I'm Jeff then that's Jim. 6 00:00:27,700 --> 00:00:29,800 Hey, Jim, hey, Jeff, how are you? 7 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,700 I've got a sneaky smile on your face, seek his follow my face 8 00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:36,600 because I think I've got a well, for me, a fun topic to bring up, 9 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:41,000 which is, you know, we've really become, I think you and I to our 10 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,000 core were conference junkies. We really like to go to 11 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,600 conferences. You went to a conference this 12 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:52,500 week and, you know, that was to navigate conference. 13 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,500 But I thought, what was Interesting is you're really 14 00:00:56,500 --> 00:00:59,500 starting to live the small airport life. 15 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,200 So you know I've been in Augusta Georgia. 16 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,100 Now for about eight years. Augusta is not a major city in 17 00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:09,900 the United States. For those who don't know, be 18 00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:12,900 prior to that, I lived in Charlotte and that in New 19 00:01:12,900 --> 00:01:15,000 Jersey. So I had Newark airport, but 20 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,500 I've been doing this, you know, the the commuter shuttle from 21 00:01:18,900 --> 00:01:21,300 Augusta to Atlanta. Sometimes I just drive to 22 00:01:21,300 --> 00:01:26,200 Atlanta because it's their show. Shuttle flights a there's always 23 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,900 something goes wrong with them. So now you've got a new story. 24 00:01:28,900 --> 00:01:32,600 So why don't you share it? You're living in Asheville and 25 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,600 so you're doing your show, it is definitely different. 26 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,800 So, coming from the Chicago area O'Hare used to be my main base 27 00:01:37,900 --> 00:01:39,900 and I'll hair is like one of the busiest airports in the world 28 00:01:39,900 --> 00:01:43,600 where I can get anywhere on one flight and yeah might be busy 29 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,900 and sometimes the way but it's pretty consistent. 30 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,200 Yeah. Having moved to Asheville which 31 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,600 is in Western North Carolina and the mountains and I'm a grizzled 32 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,900 mountain man. I take a commuter flight from 33 00:01:53,900 --> 00:01:55,400 Asheville Airport. Or into Atlanta. 34 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,700 And yeah, I was coming home last night and I was coming from 35 00:01:58,700 --> 00:02:02,200 Austin to Atlanta and then Atlanta to Asheville. 36 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,400 And, you know, it's a long day of travel, whatever. 37 00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:08,699 You know, start to fly into Asheville where honor descent 38 00:02:08,900 --> 00:02:11,500 were about to land. And all of a sudden, notice the 39 00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:14,500 plane banking like, okay? Well, like, you know what 40 00:02:14,500 --> 00:02:16,000 happens, you know, why are we turn it? 41 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,000 You know, like, why are we turning? 42 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,000 We should be like, going straight, you know, and landing. 43 00:02:19,300 --> 00:02:21,300 And this has happened before, you know, one of my flights to 44 00:02:21,300 --> 00:02:23,400 Monterey, I might have mentioned in a previous episode. 45 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,100 We were about to land. And and then the pilot psycho. 46 00:02:26,100 --> 00:02:27,900 Yeah, we're having to make another turn because there was 47 00:02:27,900 --> 00:02:30,300 another plane on the runway. Like okay, well thank you for 48 00:02:30,300 --> 00:02:31,600 that. That's probably a good idea. 49 00:02:31,900 --> 00:02:35,500 And so we got, you know, we're kind of wondering what's going 50 00:02:35,500 --> 00:02:39,400 on and pilot comes on and he's like, folks little bit of ground 51 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,800 problem in Asheville. There is a plane has crashed on 52 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,300 the runway. It was like, oh wow. 53 00:02:46,300 --> 00:02:49,800 Alright, that's not good. And we're being, you know, we're 54 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,400 we're going to circle around and figure out what to do and we 55 00:02:53,408 --> 00:02:56,600 ended up getting diverted. To Greenville, which is a few 56 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,900 hours south of the Asheville area. 57 00:02:59,300 --> 00:03:03,300 And I guess what happened was a small little like Piper Cub type 58 00:03:03,300 --> 00:03:06,700 plane came in for a landing, just ahead of us. 59 00:03:06,700 --> 00:03:08,700 They were like the plane right before us. 60 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,600 And they landed and their landing gear fields and 61 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,000 basically crash-landed. And, you know, basically took up 62 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,100 the entire Runway because Asheville only has one Runway. 63 00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:21,400 So it blocked all air traffic for probably a good three or 64 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,400 four hours, you know. I they took us to A Greenville. 65 00:03:26,100 --> 00:03:28,500 They gave us the option and they're like, well it's gonna be 66 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:31,700 at least an hour so you can either stay on the plane or you 67 00:03:31,700 --> 00:03:35,200 can get off and kind of hang around the, you know, the the 68 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,300 gate there until they have an ETA or you know for people who 69 00:03:39,300 --> 00:03:42,000 could do it, just go from there where they want to. 70 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,200 So I chose the last option, I was like, all right, I could you 71 00:03:45,208 --> 00:03:47,800 know, play the you can I can gamble and maybe the fight will 72 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:49,800 be ready. Like it's a plane crash. 73 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:50,700 Doesn't sound like that's something. 74 00:03:50,700 --> 00:03:53,700 I'm going to clean up relatively easy especially at a small 75 00:03:53,700 --> 00:03:57,300 airport like that. So I just I got a, I got a lift 76 00:03:57,300 --> 00:04:00,500 and, you know, when to the app and yeah, to our lift ride 77 00:04:00,500 --> 00:04:03,700 later, I was home. And that was my first, that's 78 00:04:03,700 --> 00:04:05,700 been my first real negative experience. 79 00:04:05,700 --> 00:04:08,000 I think we're, you know, I'm glad people were okay and people 80 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:09,800 were okay in the, in the plane crash. 81 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,600 But yeah, that's that's that's a great curveball for the end of a 82 00:04:14,608 --> 00:04:17,000 week of travel and then, you know, you're in your last row 83 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,600 and you're literally like descending. 84 00:04:19,100 --> 00:04:20,600 You're about to lay on and then you like. 85 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,500 Nope, just kidding. We're going to take you a couple 86 00:04:22,500 --> 00:04:27,200 ourself Yeah you can almost smell home but you did a couple 87 00:04:27,300 --> 00:04:30,700 of things that you're in this doing the small airport thing 88 00:04:31,100 --> 00:04:35,500 that you never check a bag. Never check a bag, do anything 89 00:04:35,500 --> 00:04:38,400 you can to avoid checking bag. And then number two of you did 90 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,800 which I thought was you know really risky but really work out 91 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,900 for you is getting the lift and you said it was only two hundred 92 00:04:45,900 --> 00:04:48,500 dollars to go to out and then couldn't tip that's 93 00:04:48,500 --> 00:04:50,700 mind-blowing. That is my mouth is a lot 94 00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:53,300 cheaper than Chicago. Let's just say it that would 95 00:04:53,308 --> 00:04:57,000 have probably been like a three or Hundred dollar lift in Uber, 96 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,200 you know, coolant in the Chicago area. 97 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,900 But yeah, for whatever reason, yeah, I went to Greenville 98 00:05:01,900 --> 00:05:05,100 Airport, very nice airport, it's a really nice airport actually. 99 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:10,600 And yeah, my guy arum took me from Greenville all the way up 100 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,400 to my place in Asheville. So kudos to him, I certainly 101 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,100 tipped. Well too because I know what a 102 00:05:15,108 --> 00:05:17,100 pain in the butt, that was probably for him, especially 103 00:05:17,100 --> 00:05:21,200 like he's basically two hours out of his area and now he's got 104 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,100 to drive back. So I made sure we took care of 105 00:05:23,108 --> 00:05:24,300 the guy. Yeah, that's good. 106 00:05:24,500 --> 00:05:27,200 Good looks good. So yeah you know conference 107 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,500 junkies we obviously had to be in withdrawal for a couple of 108 00:05:31,508 --> 00:05:34,500 years during the pandemic but things are back. 109 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,200 You know. I also wanted to just mention 110 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,900 that we are going to a conference the week after next 111 00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:45,700 which is the Fido authenticate conference. 112 00:05:45,900 --> 00:05:48,900 We're going to podcast from they're hoping to put together 113 00:05:48,900 --> 00:05:52,000 for five episodes while were there at the conference. 114 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,300 So we're going to have another one. 115 00:05:54,600 --> 00:06:00,100 Is you know, splurges or binges of content so really look 116 00:06:00,100 --> 00:06:02,200 forward to that. You know we're getting hit with 117 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:08,000 those almost daily or maybe even Delhi episodes for about a week 118 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,500 I'll do my best and then it is easy for me to make these 119 00:06:12,500 --> 00:06:14,700 promises because I have to do all the editing. 120 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:16,700 I just have right, your pretty face. 121 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,900 Just it's just a pretty face on the audio only podcast, and then 122 00:06:21,900 --> 00:06:25,300 we've got the OCTA octane conference That were doing in 123 00:06:25,300 --> 00:06:27,800 November. Your goal is to do the same 124 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:33,200 thing there and you know kind of topic of conversation today. 125 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:39,500 I wanted to give a thank you to Identity OG Jackson Shaw, who's 126 00:06:39,500 --> 00:06:43,700 now over a clear sky for making the introduction to our guests 127 00:06:43,700 --> 00:06:46,600 today. So he's Gary row, he's a 128 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:51,300 longtime identity OG himself. For those who don't know, OG is 129 00:06:51,300 --> 00:06:56,000 Original Gangster, which its A funny term when you added to 130 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,700 something like identity, but it's funny because I was talking 131 00:06:59,700 --> 00:07:03,400 to Gary and we're talking about a conference called digital 132 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,600 identity World, which was like my first identity management 133 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,100 conference all the way back in 2006. 134 00:07:11,100 --> 00:07:16,300 I went to it and it was just like, such a great event, you 135 00:07:16,300 --> 00:07:20,400 know, Kim Cameron was there giving his giving his laws of 136 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,400 identity, it was brand new at the time. 137 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,000 So, you know, just really good. Memories. 138 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,900 But, you know, I thought I know we're going to get into 139 00:07:27,900 --> 00:07:32,300 conferences and all today, so I'll stop talking about it and 140 00:07:32,300 --> 00:07:34,400 hand it back to you. Yeah, well, you, let's go ahead 141 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,400 and introduce the man, the myth. The legend he is Gary row. 142 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,500 He's the founder CEO and principal Consulting Analyst at 143 00:07:40,500 --> 00:07:43,200 Tech Vision research. Welcome to the show officially 144 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,300 Gary. Well, thank you. 145 00:07:45,300 --> 00:07:47,600 It's absolute pleasure to be here. 146 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:53,100 I'm I thank Jackson for the for the intro and I'm excited to 147 00:07:53,100 --> 00:07:56,000 talk about the area. We all mutually love. 148 00:07:56,300 --> 00:08:00,200 So let's let's get into the Chrysalis conference in a minute 149 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,600 because first, I want to find out more about Gary. 150 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,300 The identity person, tell me how you got into the identity and 151 00:08:06,300 --> 00:08:09,100 access management space. Is it something that you chose 152 00:08:09,100 --> 00:08:12,000 or did you find that? It actually chose you, you know, 153 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,700 it's kind of a combination of things. 154 00:08:15,500 --> 00:08:20,000 You know, it's funny you're talking about the the early days 155 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:24,300 in the, you know, 2005-6 time frame. 156 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,900 Mmmmm why early days were were many many years or decades 157 00:08:28,900 --> 00:08:31,800 earlier in the space. And, you know, one of the things 158 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:40,200 since early in my career, I always seem to track was what 159 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:45,400 was the next big thing. And it started with kind of the 160 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:50,400 shift from mainframes to many computers, as with data General, 161 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,900 and digital Equipment Corporation and then it was the 162 00:08:53,900 --> 00:08:58,300 movement And two pc's. And although I didn't work for a 163 00:08:58,300 --> 00:09:04,100 PC vendor, it dawned on me that darn all of these things need to 164 00:09:04,100 --> 00:09:06,300 be harnessed, they need to connect to one, another still 165 00:09:06,300 --> 00:09:11,800 pre-internet, at least commercial use of the internet. 166 00:09:12,500 --> 00:09:16,700 And so I got involved in network, operating systems and a 167 00:09:16,700 --> 00:09:22,900 lot of those kinds of things. And then I was in the, this is 168 00:09:22,900 --> 00:09:27,100 all, you know. 80s and so late 80s. 169 00:09:27,700 --> 00:09:35,500 I was director of core technology at AT&T that was 170 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:42,300 making a foray into the public messaging market and if you're 171 00:09:42,300 --> 00:09:47,200 doing email you have to have directories and that was part of 172 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,800 my team. And so we looked at directory 173 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:57,100 Services across All of the carriers and I participate as 174 00:09:57,100 --> 00:10:00,100 AT&T is rep to this thing called the North American directory 175 00:10:00,100 --> 00:10:06,400 forum. And there was a consultancy that 176 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,200 was actually chairing that called report communication that 177 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:15,100 had Ted Meyer chairing it and Dan Blom and I joined them left 178 00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:21,600 AT&T as an identity messaging consultant throughout the 90s 179 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,200 and Report got a pretty good name in the industry. 180 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:31,200 She got involved with a lot of the early directory Technologies 181 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,900 directory and the gate integration Technologies meta 182 00:10:33,900 --> 00:10:35,600 director. He's a lot of those kinds of 183 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:43,200 things and then my company merged with Burton group in 1998 184 00:10:43,300 --> 00:10:47,400 and I took over as president shortly thereafter. 185 00:10:48,100 --> 00:10:51,900 And you know, we chatted about digital ID, we're old. 186 00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:54,300 We had our own conference, it was pretty well-known. 187 00:10:54,900 --> 00:10:57,800 In the identity circles called Catalyst. 188 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:06,300 And so we ran that I was there for 12 years through the through 189 00:11:06,300 --> 00:11:10,300 the acquisition by Gartner was then co-president of what 190 00:11:10,300 --> 00:11:14,300 Gartner calls now Gartner for technical professionals along 191 00:11:14,300 --> 00:11:19,900 with Jamie Lewis and but in the burden group days, you know, I 192 00:11:19,908 --> 00:11:23,600 think we made some real marks in identity. 193 00:11:24,300 --> 00:11:33,000 And looked at areas like the formalization of schemas 194 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:39,000 relative to ldap and we looked at areas such as the Liberty 195 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,800 Alliance and Federation and standardization on sam'l and 196 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,400 actually Incorporated. A lot of those things both into 197 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,700 our research or advocacy, and our conference. 198 00:11:50,300 --> 00:11:58,000 So fast, forward left Gartner, and I actually was involved with 199 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,700 a start-up company because I had a lot of long-term non-compete 200 00:12:03,500 --> 00:12:08,300 was involved with the startup company that called respect 201 00:12:08,300 --> 00:12:10,700 Network. I was their CEO and then 202 00:12:10,700 --> 00:12:16,200 chairman that got acquired by or it merged with ever and M and 203 00:12:16,208 --> 00:12:20,900 got acquired by a vast recently in the decentralized identity 204 00:12:20,900 --> 00:12:26,700 space when I kind of closed. Out that chapter, I formed 205 00:12:26,700 --> 00:12:29,800 another research company, and that's Tech Vision research. 206 00:12:30,300 --> 00:12:35,200 And, you know, I felt that, you know, it kind of sounds funny to 207 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:41,100 say this, but I felt that subsequent to the sale of Burton 208 00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:46,600 group to Gartner, we created a bit of a gap in the market. 209 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,900 I wanted to fill that Gap with with tech Vision, including the 210 00:12:50,900 --> 00:12:55,700 conference Chrysalis that that I know we'll chat about So that 211 00:12:55,700 --> 00:13:01,300 was kind of my journey. I I've had the opportunity under 212 00:13:01,300 --> 00:13:05,000 techvision being a smaller company to get much more back 213 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,100 into the analysts, and the Consulting roles and a lot of 214 00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:10,300 those kinds of things is Burton group grew. 215 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,100 You know, I for years, I was kind of the business guy driving 216 00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:16,600 our growth and doing a lot of those kinds of things. 217 00:13:16,900 --> 00:13:21,700 So I'm having a lot of fun. Now, with our company and can I 218 00:13:21,700 --> 00:13:23,400 say a few words about tech Vision? 219 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,300 Yeah, I was going to ask you because I For people who aren't 220 00:13:25,300 --> 00:13:27,800 familiar to check Vision, you know, what is you mentioned, 221 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,700 research group and there's, there's obviously, you know, 222 00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:31,800 players in this space. But tell us what tech division. 223 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:37,600 Does sure it my vision with tech vision from the beginning was 224 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,600 what Jamie. And I started at Burton group, 225 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:49,800 Circa 1998, 1999 2000, which was to take great consultants, in 226 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,200 great analysts and bring them together. 227 00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:57,300 And so, with Activision I've had the opportunity to do that from 228 00:13:57,300 --> 00:14:01,700 the beginning because you know if you just do research you can 229 00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:07,400 be very your analytical but you don't necessarily get a full 230 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,700 understanding of what's happening on the ground, right? 231 00:14:09,700 --> 00:14:15,300 How things get done in large organizations if you're a just a 232 00:14:15,300 --> 00:14:20,500 consultancy, you know, you're not getting the things that we 233 00:14:20,500 --> 00:14:25,800 get in terms of regular vendor briefings Do the primary 234 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,600 research, write the reports, and so forth. 235 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:33,900 So everyone on our team is very senior much, like may not just 236 00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:38,400 an age but in terms of experience, but we but we have 237 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:43,300 equal parts, the kind of pragmatic on the ground 238 00:14:43,300 --> 00:14:48,100 Consulting where we're in the middle of doing a project with a 239 00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:51,500 large healthcare provider and some of the insights, they are 240 00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:54,300 actually going into a research report. 241 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,700 Port. We're in the process of writing 242 00:14:57,500 --> 00:15:02,700 with the about the Microsoft entra offering because they were 243 00:15:02,700 --> 00:15:04,800 at some decision points with respect to that. 244 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:09,200 So we did a lot of research will package that and our perspective 245 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,900 into a research reports. We see that as very synergistic 246 00:15:13,900 --> 00:15:18,600 and then the third leg on the stool is is developing a 247 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:23,100 conference and, you know, from the conference side, it's not a 248 00:15:23,108 --> 00:15:26,600 little tricky, you know, I Just so we did our inaugural 249 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:35,400 conference in November of 2019 and made commitments to do it. 250 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,300 I was going to grow it every year and and, and do it for for 251 00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:41,500 several years. And then obviously couldn't 252 00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:46,100 couldn't. So this will be only our second 253 00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:50,600 in person conference. Last year, we did one virtually 254 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,300 the first year in 2020. We we didn't do. 255 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,500 Ooh, either so that. So, there was a bit of a gap, 256 00:15:56,500 --> 00:16:00,400 but the ability to bring this community together and I can 257 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,700 talk a little bit as this proceeds, about some of the 258 00:16:02,700 --> 00:16:06,500 speakers, you know, for a relatively small intimate event. 259 00:16:06,900 --> 00:16:13,800 I'm just thrilled with the quality of just experts and 260 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,200 identity, and security, and privacy and governance. 261 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,300 You know, we've been able to to attract. 262 00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:21,400 Yeah, I'm sure it's pretty humbling. 263 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,300 Look, just looking at the list it's like household. 264 00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:28,500 Teams in our industry, right? I thought you brought up such an 265 00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:33,500 interesting point, there about Consulting, and versus being, an 266 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:39,100 analyst or research is Jeff. And I have been doing strategic 267 00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:41,700 advisor together for over five years. 268 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,600 And what we always say is that when you go in and you're in 269 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,500 that advisory situation, your clients expect you to know 270 00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:53,100 everything, right? You need to understand how their 271 00:16:53,100 --> 00:16:57,200 business works. How, you know, all the nuances 272 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:03,200 of modern, I t+ Legacy it, as well as know, every product in 273 00:17:03,300 --> 00:17:05,599 the marketplace. And I think we did a pretty good 274 00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:09,099 job of, you know, making sure we were jack of all trades, but 275 00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:11,300 let's be real, nobody knows everything. 276 00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:14,800 So, definitely that point that you made resonated. 277 00:17:14,900 --> 00:17:19,000 So, so Gary. Now you're the CEO of tech 278 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,800 Vision research and you put it on this conference called the 279 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,200 Chrysalis conference. Hey, the Question, that came to 280 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,300 my mind, was, how did you come up with the name Chrysalis? 281 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:36,200 Well, it's there's, there's kind of two aspects to it. 282 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,800 The the first one, and the reason I even knew, or thought 283 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,900 about the term, was it sounds like you guys are both in the 284 00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:46,700 southwest. I lived in the Atlanta area in 285 00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:48,700 Roswell for for a long period of time. 286 00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:54,300 I'm in San Diego now but we had our kids in a private school. 287 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:59,100 School and it was called the Chrysalis experiential Academy. 288 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,700 And you know, it was based on this concept that, you know, 289 00:18:04,700 --> 00:18:09,600 kids learn a lot more with experience so they infused a lot 290 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:14,600 of things in the program at very, very small school and so 291 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,000 that got me thinking about it. But you know, when we came up 292 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:26,700 with a name this was 2019 and every Company and their brothers 293 00:18:26,700 --> 00:18:30,700 were in the process of talking about digital transformation. 294 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:36,200 And so, we look at these things, from a security perspective, and 295 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,200 identity perspective of governance perspective. 296 00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:44,500 And so as I started to think about it, you know, the the the 297 00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:49,700 biological, you know Chrysalis process is, you know, moving 298 00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:53,800 from a caterpillar to a butterfly. 299 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:59,900 And you're in this it you're at this point where you're this 300 00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:05,100 kind of amorphous mass is very vulnerable but they but there's 301 00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:07,900 a cocoon around it, right? So there's this hard protective 302 00:19:07,900 --> 00:19:12,000 shell, I see that, I saw it years ago, I see it even more. 303 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:17,100 So now you know as we're dealing with the the rampant digital 304 00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:21,600 expansion, you know, driven by covid and lockdowns and so 305 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,800 forth. That's where you're most 306 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:24,700 vulnerable. Ball. 307 00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:28,600 So it's security, its identity, its these pieces around it. 308 00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:32,200 You know, one of the things that that, that I say that you guys 309 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:37,300 probably agree with just given the nature of this podcast, but 310 00:19:37,300 --> 00:19:42,700 I honestly believe it that identity is the most important 311 00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:46,500 element of a digital Enterprise program. 312 00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:50,200 That digital transformation is a lot of the consultancies call 313 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,200 it. So, you know, the so that's the 314 00:19:54,300 --> 00:20:00,100 Since behind but behind Chrysalis was the case in 2019. 315 00:20:00,100 --> 00:20:04,300 It's absolutely the case. Now and it really fits in with 316 00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:06,400 the theme of our company and our conference. 317 00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:10,300 Hey pretty up to concept of digital transformation. 318 00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:14,300 So I love that whole tie in but you bring up that that Concept 319 00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:19,400 in such a big concept, that can mean so many things to so many 320 00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:23,200 organizations, right? And it's usually goes beyond 321 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,400 just the Nuts and bolts of it, but starts to pull in other 322 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,300 areas of the business, Jeff and I are still, you know, doing 323 00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:37,700 consulting where our SM now and we work within a practice called 324 00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:41,900 cyber transformation to me. That starts to narrow down the 325 00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:45,900 digital transformation element, our digital transformation into 326 00:20:45,900 --> 00:20:49,600 its element around cybersecurity. 327 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,400 So to me, the term cyber transformation is all about what 328 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:57,500 is the Charity component to digital transformation. 329 00:20:57,500 --> 00:20:59,600 So I just thought that was interesting that you brought 330 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,800 that up, because I think a big part for me is like, when I hear 331 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,900 these new terms, like digital transformation or zero trust, 332 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,500 it's like I have to be able to put it into some contacts that I 333 00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:15,000 can associate with. Based on my past six. 334 00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:20,100 I want to learn more about the conference so who's it for, when 335 00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:22,300 is it occurring? Where is it going to be at all? 336 00:21:22,300 --> 00:21:24,800 That good stuff. Sure, the the References 337 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:30,300 November 7th to the ninth it's and the San Diego area on 338 00:21:30,300 --> 00:21:33,500 Coronado Island at the Loews Coronado. 339 00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:37,400 You can find out about it, just go into Tech Vision 340 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:44,000 research.com. It's it's a it's going to be a 341 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,300 small conference. It's very content Centric. 342 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:55,700 There's going to be a really strong wrong signal to noise 343 00:21:55,700 --> 00:22:01,500 ratio, you know, at the conference it is and and and and 344 00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:04,600 this is one of the reasons I appreciate the the opportunity 345 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:09,100 to, you know, be on a podcast like this, you know, everybody 346 00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:13,100 says this and, and I'll use actually a burton group Catalyst 347 00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:21,900 experience to kind of maybe give you a sense for how we look at 348 00:22:21,900 --> 00:22:25,700 conferences. So, you know, as Catalyst groom, 349 00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:28,100 we have, you know, thousands of people towards the end but it 350 00:22:28,108 --> 00:22:29,700 was still very cut. You know, we didn't have 351 00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:32,900 exhibition halls and stuff. It was all about the content. 352 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,900 So, all about, how do we improve identity and security systems 353 00:22:35,900 --> 00:22:39,500 and so forth? But we would leverage the group 354 00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:42,200 of people that was there and do some of these focus groups. 355 00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:47,900 So our VP of marketing at the time, you know, orchestrated 356 00:22:47,900 --> 00:22:52,100 these things and I was in a I was in a room behind, you know, 357 00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:56,600 the one-way mirrors. And and so, so they're talking 358 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,100 about marketing messages and they're they're, you know, we're 359 00:23:00,100 --> 00:23:03,600 unbiased, we're completely vendor-independent focused on 360 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,000 the end user and so on and so forth. 361 00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:08,700 And there were about, you know, 10 of our bigger customers and 362 00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:12,400 prospective customers were in there and they said you can't 363 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:17,200 use that because everybody says that and then 10 to one of the 364 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,600 guys in the room, basically said the case of Burton group, it's 365 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,000 actually true and that everyone would Shake Our heads. 366 00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:28,700 And, you know, that's that's what I'm looking to do with 367 00:23:28,700 --> 00:23:32,900 Patek vision, and the conference is, you know, to make sure 368 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,500 there's there's so much hype out there to get real world class 369 00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:44,500 experts in front of people that honestly want to help the 370 00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:47,800 Enterprise Mission. So, it's all about the 371 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,600 Enterprise Mission. We, we have vendors participate, 372 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,900 but even the vendor participation, The technician 373 00:23:54,900 --> 00:23:57,800 analysts and we did the same thing with Burton and Catalyst 374 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,200 will have a tech Vision analyst will choreograph this session. 375 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,400 You know, might be privileged access management. 376 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,400 So, we'll say, you know, here's here's where we see Pam, there's 377 00:24:06,500 --> 00:24:09,900 Trends towards Jim Pam and, you know, some of these other kinds 378 00:24:09,900 --> 00:24:14,000 of things. And, you know, here's here's 379 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,300 where we see the market key user requirements and so forth. 380 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,900 And that if there's vendors on the panel will say, what do you 381 00:24:19,900 --> 00:24:21,600 think? What are your experiences with 382 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,000 customers? Where you going? 383 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,000 Because of course, You know, it's while you know, you don't 384 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:32,600 want vendor marketing pitches you were not building this 385 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:33,600 stuff. They are. 386 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:38,400 So you do want to hear, you know what, you know, sale point is 387 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:43,900 doing and you know, Microsoft and and and the big companies in 388 00:24:43,900 --> 00:24:47,300 this space. So so we look to we look to 389 00:24:47,300 --> 00:24:51,700 balance that but even the people that we get you mentioned 390 00:24:51,700 --> 00:24:55,400 Jackson Jackson from Clear Sky, he's been In this face for 30 391 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,600 years. So to have him on a panel 392 00:24:57,900 --> 00:25:01,300 talking about IGA, you know, he'll give a great industry 393 00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:04,300 perspective and then we'll highlight what clear skies doing 394 00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:08,300 in that area. Pim Dingle from Microsoft, you 395 00:25:08,300 --> 00:25:11,400 know, a very similar thing. She she came to our early 396 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,900 Catalyst conference as we worked with her for four decades. 397 00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:18,800 So, you know, that's, that's really what we're looking to do 398 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,500 in. I guess one other aspect, Is 399 00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:30,400 that it and no disrespect to any of the other conferences. 400 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,000 Ours is just different, I think they're all great in terms of 401 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:39,200 what they do but our conference it you know if you're doing a 402 00:25:39,208 --> 00:25:41,500 big conference there's going to be a lot of great sessions but 403 00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:45,400 they're all over the place you know you can go to this one and 404 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:52,700 its technical this one you know is business oriented the way we 405 00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:56,400 characterize Crystal. Alice in, I didn't actually come 406 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,400 up with this, some of our customers did. 407 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,300 After our first conference. They said, you know, this is a 408 00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:06,400 conference with a story. So we look to link all of the 409 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:11,300 pieces together from day, 1 Day, 2 Day 3 from one session to the 410 00:26:11,300 --> 00:26:14,700 other because frankly in the real world and you know this 411 00:26:14,700 --> 00:26:18,100 from doing your Consulting projects and just your work in 412 00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:20,900 this space, it's all interconnected, you know, 413 00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:23,900 identities farted digital, let's part of security. 414 00:26:24,300 --> 00:26:27,900 It sparked a zero trust. Now we have to think about 415 00:26:27,900 --> 00:26:33,500 privacy and Regulatory controls. And, you know, sometimes there's 416 00:26:33,500 --> 00:26:37,200 there's trade-offs between, you know how much information can 417 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,300 you collect from a security perspective without, you know, 418 00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:44,600 having too much data from regulatory control perspective. 419 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,800 So, you know it all plays together. 420 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,900 So from it and if it makes sense, I can kind of walk 421 00:26:49,900 --> 00:26:53,700 through the general structure of the conference and how the days 422 00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:57,300 will. Whoa, but but the whole thing is 423 00:26:57,300 --> 00:27:01,100 tightly choreographed to basically tell a story and in 424 00:27:01,100 --> 00:27:05,500 day 3 will net it all out with the set of tools and so forth 425 00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:07,500 for the for the Enterprise attendees. 426 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,200 So Gary you also mentioned that piece about Pam and by the way, 427 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,400 we did an episode where we called Pam is dead. 428 00:27:16,700 --> 00:27:20,600 And what about how about a clickbait d title, right? 429 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,600 Pam is dead. I got so many messages about my 430 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,300 from people. We're in the Pam space, right? 431 00:27:27,100 --> 00:27:31,800 But anyway seriously though one of the things I looked at like I 432 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,900 was super impressed by the people who are going to be at 433 00:27:34,900 --> 00:27:38,800 the Chrysalis conference but I also thought, okay those are 434 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,100 folks who all know each other. There have been in this industry 435 00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:47,700 for 20 plus years. If I'm new to the industry, is 436 00:27:47,700 --> 00:27:50,700 there a place for me at my going to feel welcome? 437 00:27:50,900 --> 00:27:54,700 How are you going to take people who don't know all these People 438 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,300 and make sure that they don't feel like they're not in the, in 439 00:27:59,300 --> 00:28:02,100 the group. That's that's, that's a great 440 00:28:02,100 --> 00:28:09,900 question, you know, we will Deep dive into certain topics where 441 00:28:09,900 --> 00:28:13,900 it's required, but but that's part of the conference with the 442 00:28:13,900 --> 00:28:17,400 story, right? Where, you know, we're starting 443 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,900 with, you know, where businesses are going, where Enterprises are 444 00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:29,500 going with, respect to digital Over the last, you know, three 445 00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:34,100 years, a lot of companies were in survival mode. 446 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,200 You had to get your digital connections out there in some 447 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,100 way to survive. So now there's an opportunity to 448 00:28:41,100 --> 00:28:44,600 shore up the identity. The security, a lot of these 449 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,600 pieces. So I think that will be helpful 450 00:28:47,700 --> 00:28:53,100 for somebody who maybe hasn't been as steeped in this over 451 00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:54,800 over long. A time. 452 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,100 And then, on day 3, which will be a half a day, we're going to 453 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:05,800 look at identity security, and risk, and privacy, and net it 454 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,700 out. Look at we developed tools, we 455 00:29:09,700 --> 00:29:13,000 call reference architectures. So we'll look at a reference 456 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,900 architecture. Dan Bloom has put this fantastic 457 00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:20,600 capability together on and he's getting ready. 458 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,000 We had a meeting on it yesterday. 459 00:29:24,100 --> 00:29:30,200 How to basically update his multi-cloud security reference 460 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,500 architecture that takes all of security. 461 00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:38,600 It certainly ties into nest and some of the things that are out 462 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,100 there. But brings it from the business 463 00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:44,900 perspective, all the way down to the elements that are included 464 00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:49,300 and it's a great checklist for organizations that are trying to 465 00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:51,800 put plans and processes and procedures. 466 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,100 We've done a ton of work, that goes back to the Days. 467 00:29:55,500 --> 00:29:59,500 Developing a capabilities, face security, identity, reference 468 00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:04,800 architecture, Doug Simmons. And I'll walk through that is as 469 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,300 well. And then, Joe Phillips will do 470 00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:08,400 the same thing on the Privacy side. 471 00:30:08,700 --> 00:30:10,800 You know, how do you develop a privacy program? 472 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,300 How do you make some of those decisions that need to be made 473 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,000 relative to some of those trade-offs? 474 00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:21,000 I want to tease out some of the, some of the key themes, you 475 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,200 know, through the agenda as I was looking through it. 476 00:30:24,100 --> 00:30:26,900 There's I think it really kind of kicks off with securing our 477 00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:31,900 digital future, which sounds ominous concerning scary. 478 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,200 And how are we going to do that key? 479 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,600 Is there a way you can give us maybe kind of a sneak peek into 480 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,000 kind of, you know, what is that actually going to address? 481 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,300 Sure. It's I mean, that's my initial 482 00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:47,700 level set which, you know, will basically have tentacles and 483 00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:49,500 throughout the entire program, right? 484 00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:52,800 So a lot of the things that we'll be talking about during 485 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:58,300 the course of Of, you know, the two-and-a-half days will be the 486 00:30:58,300 --> 00:31:02,500 elements in terms of the identity platforms and IGA 487 00:31:02,500 --> 00:31:08,900 capabilities and and you know, how do we scale some of these 488 00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:12,600 things you know, how do we integrate some of these 489 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,800 Technologies? How do we secure it? 490 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,900 How do we leverage Ai, and machine learning and in all of 491 00:31:19,900 --> 00:31:24,700 these other capabilities to have something that That that we 492 00:31:24,700 --> 00:31:26,900 call. I haven't seen a lot of research 493 00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:30,300 firms really look at it like this but but but we don't just 494 00:31:30,300 --> 00:31:33,000 go with zero trust. And this was Dan blooms 495 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,300 contribution early on WE characterized it as zero across 496 00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:40,500 zero friction. And you know and that that's 497 00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:44,000 another great lesson learned over the last two and a half 498 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,300 years is. Yeah, we can lock things down 499 00:31:47,300 --> 00:31:51,300 from a security perspective and you know, have no customers 500 00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:54,000 actually use it because it's a little bit too cumbersome. 501 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,800 So in this been several cios is we've done projects and ccos 502 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,200 that start with that. You know we have to figure out 503 00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:05,700 how to make this more usable how to make it more attractive. 504 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:11,100 So so basically these capabilities will be you know, 505 00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:15,400 ingrained we have developed some top-level capabilities, a 506 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,600 digital Enterprise reference architecture that takes the 507 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:23,700 various environments and kind of brings them in place and that's 508 00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:25,100 a hook on. After the reference 509 00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:28,500 architecture, we doing security and identity and throughout you 510 00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:33,100 start really big and then start to break out the specific 511 00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:38,900 capabilities that that drive the the business needs that you 512 00:32:38,900 --> 00:32:42,000 have. So the new digital Enterprise 513 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:48,700 you know is is something that we actually don't like using the 514 00:32:48,700 --> 00:32:53,900 the term digital transformation because this is the way that 515 00:32:53,900 --> 00:32:57,300 most of Enterprises will do business it's or maybe it's 516 00:32:57,300 --> 00:33:02,500 constant transformation but you know where this is this is the 517 00:33:02,508 --> 00:33:06,900 way a life for for Enterprises were saying that 34 years ago 518 00:33:06,900 --> 00:33:12,300 and obviously, you know, that is a substantive change that, you 519 00:33:12,300 --> 00:33:14,200 know, occurred over the last two years. 520 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,300 I find it interesting. You know zero trust is sort of 521 00:33:17,308 --> 00:33:20,100 like taking over the world like every every conference I've been 522 00:33:20,100 --> 00:33:23,000 to this year has been kind of a major theme and I think for good 523 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,100 reason, I think there are certainly valid Concepts there 524 00:33:25,100 --> 00:33:28,400 that need to be, you know, part of security strategy and 525 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,300 certainly identity is part of that and I looked through the 526 00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:35,800 agenda and I noticed that there was one from Jay Schumacher, who 527 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,500 is part of Hondas organization. He's the leaves there I am. 528 00:33:39,900 --> 00:33:42,300 And he's talking about identity zero trust and I think it's 529 00:33:42,300 --> 00:33:45,100 interesting this is not coming from, you know, Quote unquote, 530 00:33:45,100 --> 00:33:48,400 I'm analyst right? Or a vendor, it's coming from 531 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,800 somebody who's in the business and doing this on a day in day 532 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,700 out, I love talks like that because I feel like I get more 533 00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:59,300 out of those and understanding sort of the path that others 534 00:33:59,300 --> 00:34:00,900 have taken. You know, the paint. 535 00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:03,500 I'm sure he'll probably share maybe some of the pain and 536 00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:05,100 Lessons Learned and things like that. 537 00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:08,699 And it one of those things is, it's always, you know, it's okay 538 00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:11,600 to get smarter. Right and sort of learn from 539 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,500 those sort of the facts. And, and I see other things like 540 00:34:14,699 --> 00:34:18,800 Is worthless and, you know, upgrading modern if indication 541 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,900 and decentralised and there is a lot of really good topics and 542 00:34:23,900 --> 00:34:27,000 I'm like, sometimes a squirrel, I go to a conference and it's 543 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,300 like, I want to be in this one, and that one, and this one, and 544 00:34:30,308 --> 00:34:33,699 they all happen sort of, at the same time, it's difficult to 545 00:34:33,699 --> 00:34:38,000 kind of consume it all at once, you know, sort of be present for 546 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,100 those conversations. I'm looking forward to hopefully 547 00:34:41,100 --> 00:34:44,000 be able to make it out this year, or next year, I will be 548 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,300 able to make it This year because obviously will be tied 549 00:34:46,300 --> 00:34:48,900 up with, with Octavio, think, which is at the same time it is, 550 00:34:49,100 --> 00:34:53,500 but you've got some really good topics and really good speakers. 551 00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:55,600 And, you know, I think it's, I think it's really cool. 552 00:34:55,900 --> 00:34:59,500 And I'm looking forward to kind of hearing more after the fact 553 00:34:59,500 --> 00:35:01,700 is, is people who kind of attending consume it and see 554 00:35:01,700 --> 00:35:02,800 what their thoughts are, as well. 555 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:11,100 Yeah, and you know some of the topics like like zero trust, you 556 00:35:11,100 --> 00:35:14,100 know, there's there's so much marketing hype around it. 557 00:35:14,100 --> 00:35:21,300 I spent several days walking around and interviewing vendors 558 00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:29,100 and and Folks, at RSA and there, there were two things that were 559 00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:33,000 more prevalent than than, you know, Starbucks and a big. 560 00:35:33,100 --> 00:35:39,900 City and one was zero trust. The other one was a I am l in 561 00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:42,700 security. And of course, both of those 562 00:35:42,700 --> 00:35:46,000 topics, we will cover at Chrysalis. 563 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,400 But you know, one of the things we spend a lot of time thinking 564 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,500 about it. Both on the Consulting side and 565 00:35:53,500 --> 00:35:57,000 you know, in terms of positioning in the industry, is 566 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,100 kind of the line of demarcation between the hype. 567 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:05,800 And the reality, you know, part is zero trust is just you know 568 00:36:06,100 --> 00:36:11,000 decade decades-long security practices. 569 00:36:11,300 --> 00:36:14,000 Every time we talk about and we'll hear this in the security 570 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,500 Legends panel, my good friend former colleague. 571 00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:24,600 Frank Fred Cohen, if you guys know Fred when, when he just 572 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:30,700 hates the term and you know, it's it's, you know, we Have 573 00:36:30,700 --> 00:36:33,200 best practices and we should have been doing this all along 574 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:40,500 and so forth that said, you know, they're you know, simple 575 00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:43,700 things and this gets into the identity piece as well. 576 00:36:43,700 --> 00:36:52,600 Simple things like the fact that, you know, given you know, 577 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,200 how everything is being distributed right now, you know, 578 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,400 shoot, we've been saying for 20 years and I think it really is 579 00:37:00,500 --> 00:37:02,800 Is now identity. Is this new perimeter? 580 00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:04,600 Because what else are you going to do? 581 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:09,500 And the basic concept of zero trust where you're going to have 582 00:37:10,100 --> 00:37:20,600 a, you're going to have somebody inside of the firewall and 583 00:37:21,900 --> 00:37:26,700 that's still isn't good. And you know, if you have all 584 00:37:26,700 --> 00:37:31,200 kinds of devices some of the you know iot devices Is all kinds of 585 00:37:31,207 --> 00:37:37,000 ways to access information where highly mobile, you know how, how 586 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,900 can you lock things down? It was funny, we were doing a 587 00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:47,700 doing a research report about 23 year about three, four years ago 588 00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:50,200 on zero trust and networking Sorrell. 589 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,600 Slay maker was doing it, he was pretty new with tech Vision, it 590 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,900 just left Gardener. And so I got on the calls just 591 00:37:57,900 --> 00:38:00,000 to give a little bit of background about tech Vision, 592 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,800 I'm there, you know? No, I'm not really a networking 593 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:06,400 guy, but I know something about identity and we were on with 594 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,200 Palo Alto and centrify and you know, all of the Cisco. 595 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,000 All the vendors were talking about zero trust networking. 596 00:38:13,300 --> 00:38:17,500 But then I noticed the entire discussion was about identity 597 00:38:18,300 --> 00:38:25,300 and, you know, so, so, and Honda will talk about that will will 598 00:38:25,300 --> 00:38:28,500 have General Motors talk a little bit about that on day, 599 00:38:28,500 --> 00:38:31,600 two as well. In terms of their Ernie, you 600 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,400 know, ended in 20 trust but you know, to have those end-user 601 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,600 case studies to round out the analysis, I think is great. 602 00:38:38,700 --> 00:38:43,800 So Gary at the last Chrysalis, which was in November of last 603 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:48,100 year and it was virtual, one of the I am Legends, who 604 00:38:48,100 --> 00:38:52,300 participated in that conference was Kim Cameron and now Kim 605 00:38:52,300 --> 00:38:56,600 wrote the laws of identity that was his, you know, his 606 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,900 Masterpiece, if you will back in 2006 and it became an important 607 00:39:01,900 --> 00:39:04,900 part of how the industry looked at online night. 608 00:39:05,500 --> 00:39:08,800 Well, I think most people probably know Kim passed away in 609 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,200 December and you were a close personal friend of his and we 610 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,900 just wanted to give you an opportunity to maybe tell 611 00:39:16,900 --> 00:39:19,300 everyone what people should know about. 612 00:39:19,300 --> 00:39:25,000 Kim, that thank you for giving me the opportunity while I'll 613 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:32,200 say something about Kim at at at Chrysalis, as well, Um, you 614 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:37,700 know, he, he loves technology. It's an unwavering passion for 615 00:39:37,700 --> 00:39:44,700 technology but also humanity. And a lot of the the areas that 616 00:39:44,700 --> 00:39:52,200 he got behind over the years, you know, tied into that 617 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:57,800 intersection, you know, user-centric identity which has 618 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,500 now morphed into some of the decentralized identity and so 619 00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:04,800 forth. He was extremely passionate 620 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:10,700 about As a person, he was absolute technical genius. 621 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:17,000 And and I had so many people kind of give me feedback about 622 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,500 this. Kim had actually reached out. 623 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,600 All he had told his family before he passed to reach out to 624 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:29,000 me because family really, you know, was less cognizant or 625 00:40:29,008 --> 00:40:35,000 professional accomplishments to write his professional obituary 626 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,100 which which It just brings tears to my eyes, even, even 627 00:40:39,100 --> 00:40:43,500 recollecting. But several people stepped up 628 00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:45,400 and they said, you know, it's funny. 629 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,200 You asked the question earlier about what about the people that 630 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:52,300 are new in this space and I had several people highlight. 631 00:40:52,300 --> 00:40:56,600 That's just what Kim did he made everybody? 632 00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:01,100 Feel like they were the center of attention if they were an 633 00:41:01,100 --> 00:41:06,700 absolute genius in the, I am space or just starting out And 634 00:41:06,700 --> 00:41:11,200 you know, he had that ability and the humanity and he is 635 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,200 driven not, I mean, he's well-known for the loss of 636 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,100 identity, I got to know him in the 90s when you developed this 637 00:41:18,100 --> 00:41:19,900 matter. Directory concept that this 638 00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:23,800 company called Zoom at that Microsoft acquired, we brought 639 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:28,400 him in he probably spoke at catalysts like 20 times over the 640 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,500 years. And, and the cool thing was even 641 00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:37,400 though he's a Microsoft employee, He would make the the, 642 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,800 the pr people nervous because Kim with say what he was 643 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,200 thinking about, you know, which doesn't always resonate with 644 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,900 with large organizations. One of the reasons we loved 645 00:41:47,900 --> 00:41:54,400 having him on stage though. So yeah, just just and then the 646 00:41:54,400 --> 00:42:00,500 fact that, you know, I, I knew things were not good, but the 647 00:42:00,500 --> 00:42:04,500 fact that it was like, 34 weeks before that, he joined us on to 648 00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:07,500 panel sessions. Because we did it virtually. 649 00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:10,400 And that was, I guess the blessing of doing it virtually. 650 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,900 And I think Kim just love this space so much. 651 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,600 He just wanted to participate. So he was on our identity 652 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,500 Legends panel and he was on our panel for decentralized 653 00:42:21,500 --> 00:42:25,100 identity, which is, as I said, was an area of passion and he, 654 00:42:25,100 --> 00:42:30,000 he had such an impact on on our industry and absolutely will 655 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,100 always always be remembered. Fondly, I think that's probably 656 00:42:34,100 --> 00:42:36,800 at the highest praise that I can think of Of you know, 657 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:41,800 professionally is you made your mark, you know, it's a rare 658 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,100 thing statistically where, you know, people are. 659 00:42:45,500 --> 00:42:48,600 Are you know, that well regarded in their space right? 660 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,800 And they they go down into the Legends category, right? 661 00:42:51,900 --> 00:42:54,800 If there was like a hall of fame for you know for identity I'm 662 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,400 sure he would be in there along with a bunch of other people and 663 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,300 I think that's that's what we look for right? 664 00:42:59,300 --> 00:43:02,300 Is everyone, kind of want to make some Mark and certainly he 665 00:43:02,300 --> 00:43:07,000 did it which is you know good stuff and such Such a nice guy, 666 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,000 you know, I just just such a such a great person that's even 667 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,100 better. It's going to be. 668 00:43:12,100 --> 00:43:14,400 So I know we want to kind of wrap things up here and keep 669 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,100 Congress at a time. We typically go to a lighter 670 00:43:17,100 --> 00:43:19,200 note towards the end of the conversation. 671 00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:22,900 So I guess in a little bit of sort of an awkward transition 672 00:43:22,900 --> 00:43:26,800 that will hopefully you know bring things back to maybe I'm 673 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,400 sure there were good memories but maybe you know put smiles on 674 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:34,600 faces is I want to end out this week with a question that came 675 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,400 from our friend, Tom Item over at Southpoint. 676 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,300 We were talking to him earlier today and you know I said I love 677 00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:43,000 we're going to record later and he's I got a good. 678 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:44,500 He's like I got a good lighter note for him. 679 00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:45,900 I will good. Give it to me because I don't 680 00:43:45,900 --> 00:43:49,300 have one yet and that's just as sometimes How We Roll here is 681 00:43:49,300 --> 00:43:52,500 last minute and he came up with this question which I love how 682 00:43:52,500 --> 00:43:56,500 many devices are currently connected to your home network? 683 00:43:57,100 --> 00:44:01,200 And how many do you recognize? Now before we get into the 684 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:05,300 answers here, I'm sure there will be answers all over the 685 00:44:05,300 --> 00:44:06,100 place. Case. 686 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:11,300 I will posit that if you have if you're a betting person I bet I 687 00:44:11,300 --> 00:44:13,300 have the most devices on a network. 688 00:44:13,500 --> 00:44:17,500 If you know me I'm a total nerd and device geek but who knows? 689 00:44:17,500 --> 00:44:20,500 Maybe Jim is a dark horse, maybe Gary's the Dark Horse as well. 690 00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:22,000 Write, that might have some stuff out there. 691 00:44:22,900 --> 00:44:26,600 Gary will start with you how many devices are currently 692 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,500 connected to your home network? And how many of you recognize? 693 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:35,800 I would say that it's a half a dozen. 694 00:44:36,700 --> 00:44:45,200 So I'm sure I will be on, on the low side, you know, TVs, Wi-Fi. 695 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:51,600 Routers computers may be up to eight, but but it's, it's, it's 696 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:59,200 not a big number and I don't have a refrigerator washer dryer 697 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,800 or some of the other, you know, iot enabled devices, but most 698 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,600 importantly, you have your inventory. 699 00:45:05,900 --> 00:45:07,100 So you know, what's on your network? 700 00:45:07,100 --> 00:45:09,000 And it sounds to me like you have a pretty good idea of 701 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,000 what's there. And there are not things that 702 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,900 you're wondering. Hmm, what is that thing? 703 00:45:13,700 --> 00:45:16,100 Yeah, I do. Yeah, that's the way to do it. 704 00:45:16,100 --> 00:45:19,700 Jim about yourself. How many devices are currently 705 00:45:19,700 --> 00:45:22,600 connected to your home network? I'm pretty sure have more than 706 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,200 Gary, right? I think I've got a half dozen 707 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,600 that have Syria right now, but I've got, you know, ring 708 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,500 doorbell. I've got Wi-Fi enabled cameras 709 00:45:32,500 --> 00:45:35,800 and sprinkler systems. I've got two laptops. 710 00:45:35,900 --> 00:45:41,500 Sprinkler system. Yeah, ratio ratio Ratio or ratio 711 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,400 sprinkler system. This is a great invention. 712 00:45:44,700 --> 00:45:49,000 You can see your whole sprinkler thing through a phone app. 713 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:54,800 It also is connected to weather forecasts, so it will basically, 714 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:59,200 you can set it up to cancel if there's been a lot of rain, you 715 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,100 know, things like that. So you can really go heavy in 716 00:46:02,100 --> 00:46:05,000 terms of your configuration you can keep it very. 717 00:46:05,300 --> 00:46:07,500 So how many Devices, do you think you have on your network 718 00:46:07,500 --> 00:46:09,800 then do you know? So so the other thing is I have 719 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,800 kids and their friends and they all come over. 720 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:18,900 They all have phones computers, TVs gaming systems. 721 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,400 I've got to have over 100 but no, I don't have a will have an 722 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,300 exact over 100. That's crazy. 723 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,100 It is. I think I have over 100. 724 00:46:27,100 --> 00:46:29,200 I alway that. You've got me because I'm 725 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:33,300 looking at my inventory and now I have 44 devices online as we 726 00:46:33,300 --> 00:46:36,400 speak a mix of, you know, everything you Expect in the 727 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,100 house, right? Laptops, computers, phones, 728 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,500 smart devices, cameras, you know, all that good stuff. 729 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,600 And I have a 90 each device is because I am one of those people 730 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:51,400 who goes into, you know, my my router app labels them. 731 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,900 So I know what they are testing. Things is okay. 732 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,900 Here's this thing that says that it's, you know, from Shenzhen 733 00:46:57,900 --> 00:47:01,200 and it has like no names. Like, alright, I think that's 734 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:02,500 the camera. Let me go test it out. 735 00:47:02,500 --> 00:47:05,400 Yep, that it is. So so yeah, I would have thought 736 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,700 I would Had had both you guys beat but Jim's. 737 00:47:07,700 --> 00:47:10,800 I mean 100 devices. It's, that's not yeah. 738 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,400 I will show up. When I lived in New Jersey, I 739 00:47:13,408 --> 00:47:18,300 lived in a townhouse community and people would always connect 740 00:47:18,300 --> 00:47:21,300 to my network. So I would always have devices 741 00:47:21,300 --> 00:47:27,400 connected to my Wi-Fi, so I changed my Wi-Fi SSID to we call 742 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:32,600 the FBI. I figure if people saw that and 743 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:36,400 they connected to it, then you know, they've Higher risk 744 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:37,700 tolerance that. I do. 745 00:47:38,100 --> 00:47:41,800 I think I named one of my access points like FBI van number four 746 00:47:42,300 --> 00:47:43,900 in. You know, it's like well waste I 747 00:47:43,908 --> 00:47:45,400 guess that's number 4. Where the other? 748 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,600 Three. Write something like that? 749 00:47:47,700 --> 00:47:49,400 Yeah. If shrunk again drown? 750 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:50,900 Yeah, people were probably looking left. 751 00:47:50,900 --> 00:47:55,000 Alright, let's go ahead and wrap it up for this week before we go 752 00:47:55,300 --> 00:47:57,300 Gary any final thoughts. I know we talked off all about 753 00:47:57,300 --> 00:47:59,800 the Chrysalis conference and it looks like a fantastic option 754 00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,900 for folks that are interested. Anything you want people to take 755 00:48:02,900 --> 00:48:07,500 away from this conversation, we just had I The biggest takeaway 756 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:14,500 is if you're a large Enterprise and you're trying to figure this 757 00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:22,300 stuff out the, the depth and breadth of presenters in a small 758 00:48:22,300 --> 00:48:24,700 venues. So you'll have an opportunity to 759 00:48:24,700 --> 00:48:28,600 sync up with them throughout the two and a half days. 760 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:35,700 You will come out of this with a plan input torque. 761 00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:39,900 Birds, you know what you want to do and identity security 762 00:48:39,900 --> 00:48:43,300 governance with with tools and capabilities. 763 00:48:43,300 --> 00:48:48,200 So it's again a very different, you know, type of event. 764 00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,600 And and thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk about this. 765 00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:56,300 I sense, we could probably talk identity for like, the next 45 766 00:48:56,300 --> 00:48:57,800 hours. Oh, absolutely. 767 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,900 Yeah, it's it was, it was very cool and I got to tell you, I 768 00:49:00,908 --> 00:49:03,400 hats off for one, your selection of location. 769 00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,700 Coronado Island is awesome. San Diego area. 770 00:49:06,700 --> 00:49:09,600 I'm totally big fan of, but yes, I'm very familiar with that. 771 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,800 And it is definitely, I, you know, I'm not going to tell you 772 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:17,900 that location plays into my confort selection, but it 773 00:49:17,900 --> 00:49:21,100 certainly does help with the ones that that are out there. 774 00:49:21,100 --> 00:49:23,900 So I was always a fan of catalysts as well. 775 00:49:23,900 --> 00:49:27,300 I've been to a few of those and having that in San Diego, there 776 00:49:27,300 --> 00:49:29,200 at think, it's at the think it's, at the Hyatt right by 777 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,100 Seaport Village. That was always a good time. 778 00:49:32,100 --> 00:49:35,700 So yeah, kudos to that. Jim, how about yourself? 779 00:49:35,900 --> 00:49:37,300 Final thoughts for this week? Yeah. 780 00:49:37,300 --> 00:49:41,100 Just thinking about, you know, this topic of there being a 781 00:49:41,100 --> 00:49:45,600 conferences and being the new person I think, heck everybody 782 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,200 was the new person a conference at one point. 783 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:53,600 I remember one conversation was that they had little, I don't 784 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,800 know if you'd call it badges or a little flags, that would go 785 00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,400 under people's name tags and we did indicate, you know, their 786 00:50:00,700 --> 00:50:04,800 member or, you know, whatever. And and one of the flags you can 787 00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:09,800 have the same Ed first-time attendee and what was really 788 00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:11,300 great about that. As you had the first time, 789 00:50:11,300 --> 00:50:14,100 attendee people go out of their way to make sure that. 790 00:50:14,100 --> 00:50:18,300 Hey, do you need any help or, you know hey my name is Jim. 791 00:50:18,300 --> 00:50:22,100 What kind of triggered that is like my attitude. 792 00:50:22,100 --> 00:50:26,000 But I would encourage everybody who, you know, whether you're 793 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:30,200 new, if you're just pour like, outgoing oriented is to go out 794 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:34,900 Network, make people feel comfortable making traductions. 795 00:50:34,900 --> 00:50:37,300 You see? Too shy or standing in the 796 00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:41,300 corner. You know, not really part of 797 00:50:41,300 --> 00:50:43,000 what's going on, like, pull them in. 798 00:50:43,300 --> 00:50:45,000 Make them part of what's going on. 799 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:48,000 At the very least, you're going to probably make a new friend 800 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,100 out of the whole deal. So, you know, that's my attitude 801 00:50:51,100 --> 00:50:54,800 and I would encourage everyone else to do that spoken, like a 802 00:50:54,808 --> 00:50:56,800 true social butterfly that you are. 803 00:50:57,300 --> 00:50:59,600 Yeah, exactly. Right. 804 00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,500 We're gonna cut and repair for this week, we will have links to 805 00:51:02,500 --> 00:51:06,000 Gary on LinkedIn. So if you want to get, In touch 806 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,000 with him about something, he mentioned, definitely reach out 807 00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,500 that way. Also, for Crystalis the 808 00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:14,100 conference itself, you can find text Vision, research, Tech 809 00:51:14,100 --> 00:51:17,200 version, techvision, research.com all this will be in 810 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,600 our show notes that you can find on our website identity at the 811 00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:22,500 center.com. And we're also on Twitter at 812 00:51:22,500 --> 00:51:25,700 idac podcasts. And yeah, don't forget, we'll be 813 00:51:25,700 --> 00:51:28,600 out of medicate and Octane and in a few weeks here, if your 814 00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:32,300 listener, feel free to come on up last year at a fennec, 8 was 815 00:51:32,300 --> 00:51:33,500 the first time I had ever had a listener. 816 00:51:33,500 --> 00:51:34,900 Come up to me and say, Hey, listen. 817 00:51:35,100 --> 00:51:38,300 Like, oh, that's Cool. And I felt like Garth and you 818 00:51:38,300 --> 00:51:41,200 know from Wayne and Garth and I was like okay and then you know, 819 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,600 kind of sucked away so you can feel free to make me 820 00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,100 uncomfortable any time. That would be great. 821 00:51:46,500 --> 00:51:47,500 All right. Well, God leave it there. 822 00:51:47,500 --> 00:51:50,800 Thanks everyone for listening and we'll talk with everyone in 823 00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:55,800 the next one. Thanks for listening to the 824 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,600 identity at the center podcast. If you like what you heard, 825 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,900 don't forget to subscribe and visit us on the web and identity 826 00:52:01,900 --> 00:52:02,800 at the center.com.