1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:10,440 This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with 2 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:17,960 IAM, this is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and 3 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:22,840 Jeff Stedman. Welcome to the Identity the 4 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:24,920 Center podcast. I'm Jeff and that's Jim. 5 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:26,320 Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff. 6 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:27,880 How are you? Oh, not so bad yourself. 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,640 I'm doing pretty good. OK, so today is November 5th. 8 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:34,920 We're recording. It's going to get, This is going 9 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,040 to be dropped on November 13th. In between, I'm going to have 10 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,840 surgery on my sinuses. So I've got ADV to supplement, 11 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,040 which means I'm like a heavy breather and a mouth breather. 12 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:49,400 And one of the reasons it's not fun, man. 13 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,120 Yeah, Well, no, no. I mean, this might be the last 14 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,160 episode that I get text from you. 15 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,680 Like, I can hear you breathing. I mean, this might actually even 16 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,360 change how I sound. So I may go from my kind of 17 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,239 nasally voice. I might sound like Morgan 18 00:01:04,239 --> 00:01:06,360 Freeman in a month. Well, I could certainly make 19 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,360 that happen. I can make it also also sound 20 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,520 worse, maybe like a chipmunk I guess if I keep out there 21 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:13,600 listening and like they listen to this episode, right? 22 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,200 Kind of the kind of pre surgery and then the next few after this 23 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,920 post surgery. Like, is there a difference in 24 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:21,640 the voice? I don't know. 25 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:22,680 I mean, it'd be interesting to see. 26 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:24,840 Definitely a scientific experiment we can run here on 27 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,960 the show, but we could make a YouTube short out of it. 28 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,560 Could could do that. We're starting to put our 29 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,920 episodes up on YouTube, so I think we're just before we hit 30 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:35,280 recourse. It's Sunday morning, right? 31 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:41,960 You said November 5th and episode #170 just went live on 32 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:45,600 the YouTube channel and then this is going to end up being 33 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:51,560 episode probably 246 I believe. So it's slowly catching up, this 34 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,240 dedication, man, with I think this is our first episode 35 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,040 recorded on Sunday. I thought Saturdays were bad. 36 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,080 You know, Saturday is dedicated to college football for me. 37 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,440 I love college football. And I was actually listening to 38 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,840 one of our YouTube that you know, our episodes from. 39 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,160 I don't know, it might have been two years ago and you and I were 40 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,200 going back and forth and you're like, I hate college football. 41 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,200 I don't watch college football, but you live in the South now. 42 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,280 I I believe you will be converted. 43 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,240 I don't think so. I it's just I still not 44 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,640 interested, still don't care. I am a NFL person. 45 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,920 Talk to me when they're professional and that's pretty 46 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:29,920 much how I look at it. I think part of this is I don't 47 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:33,040 have like an alma mater to to be able to be like say, oh, OK, 48 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,720 like that's my team. Like if I lived in Chicago for a 49 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:37,200 long time. The Bears, you know, are kind of 50 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,040 my team I lived in. California. 51 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:40,360 So the Niners are kind of like my team. 52 00:02:40,920 --> 00:02:42,800 I haven't changed those two allegiances having moved to 53 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,480 North Carolina. Now, I'm not a Panthers fan. 54 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,720 I'm still a Bears and a Niners fan, but I don't. 55 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,800 I don't feel that same affinity towards a college team because I 56 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,360 just, I don't have that connection now. 57 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,720 Are you the type of person that would you? 58 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,200 I know you haven't moved around that much, but now that you move 59 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,240 somewhere, do you feel like within the next 10 years that 60 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,120 you could become a fan of like local teams like the Panthers? 61 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,720 I don't think so, but. Maybe that's just me getting old 62 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,320 and stuck in my ways. I mean, it's not that I it's not 63 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,960 that I won't cheer for them or something if I don't have, like, 64 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,160 an alternative to cheer for it, right? 65 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:17,920 If the Bears are playing the Panthers, I'm cheering for the 66 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:19,440 Bears. If the Niners are playing for 67 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,120 the Panthers, I'm cheering for the Niners. 68 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,120 If the Bears play the Niners, I'm usually a bit conflicted. 69 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,640 But you know, that's that's doesn't happen very often. 70 00:03:27,640 --> 00:03:30,040 Don't have to worry about that. But I just don't see myself. 71 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,360 I don't know. I just For whatever reason, 72 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,160 college just doesn't do it for me. 73 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,920 It never has, and I don't think it ever will. 74 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,680 But who knows? Well, I did my undergraduate in 75 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,080 a school that is the division two school that I was supposed 76 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,120 to never heard of. I did my graduate degree at 77 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,120 Rutgers. When I went there, they 78 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,480 literally had a season with zero wins. 79 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,400 Now they're pretty good. They played Ohio State yesterday 80 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,880 and they were respectable, but they're still not like in the 81 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,000 national conversation. It's but I live in Georgia. 82 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,440 We've got the best team in the country and it's exciting. 83 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,520 I have heard of all those teams. Yes. 84 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,720 That's pretty good. Yeah. 85 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:16,440 So I mean, between YouTube and AI, you know, there's now a new 86 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:17,839 Beatles song. Yeah. 87 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:20,000 Have you heard it? What's it called here? 88 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,560 I I haven't heard. I heard about it, but I haven't 89 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:23,320 heard it. Yeah. 90 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,520 So if you're if you're a Beatles fan, I think it's interesting to 91 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,800 check out on Apple Music. They have the song, obviously, 92 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,880 but they also have like a 10 minute short film. 93 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,000 That you can watch, kind of see how they kind of put together. 94 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:39,400 So it's pretty interesting. I think the AI is a little bit 95 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,640 of a misnomer because it's really more machine learning, 96 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:46,320 which technically, yes, AI. But I think the perception is 97 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,160 that it's like, oh, somebody cloned, you know, John Lennon's 98 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,520 voice or something like that. That's not what happens. 99 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:54,200 I don't know if I want to spoil it. 100 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,400 Do you want me to spoil it for you, or do you want me to tell 101 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:57,960 you how it actually what they actually did? 102 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,080 I wouldn't mind if you spoiled it for me, but I don't want you 103 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,400 to spoil for all of our other fans, so maybe we actually we 104 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,080 should even put a link in the show notes. 105 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:07,720 Spoiler Jeff, I'm going to leave it to you. 106 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,040 You decide. OK. 107 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:10,840 Well, I feel like I need to explain it just a little bit to 108 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:13,840 kind of help understand. So if you're interested in 109 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:16,800 seeing how it was done, go watch the Apple Music, take 10 110 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,720 minutes, watch that and then come back here and listen to 111 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,560 this. And in, I don't know, two or 112 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,000 three minutes, we'll probably be done with this part. 113 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,360 But OK, that's the warning. So the way that they did this 114 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,440 was. They had a tape recording of 115 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,840 John Lennon and a song that he had like a demo tape basically 116 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:38,240 from 1980 or 81 or something like that towards the end of his 117 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,600 life. And they had tried to work on 118 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,040 creating new songs based on this in the past. 119 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,120 And so if you remember like in the mid 90s they released the 120 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,760 anthology album that had like. A bunch of their old stuff and 121 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,440 there was like a new song on there, and that was based off of 122 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:56,680 some of the stuff that John Lennon had already kind of 123 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:58,520 recorded and was put there but was never released. 124 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,800 What they struggled with the time was this other song that 125 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:07,000 they ended up calling here and now where it was John Lennon 126 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,000 playing over a piano and sort of again, very rough. 127 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,520 Obviously it's a demo tape, you know, it's literally recorded on 128 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,880 tape, you know, tape itself, right. 129 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,920 But putting it together and they could never quite figure out how 130 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,920 to. Separate the channels to be able 131 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:28,000 to have just John Lennon's voice as a stem and the piano as a 132 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,960 stem, because then that way they could kind of separate it and 133 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:32,880 kind of figure out how to make it make it work. 134 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:39,480 Fast forward to a year ago 20/22 and the rise of AI and kind of 135 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,000 the computational things we're able to do now and they actually 136 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:46,080 enlisted Peter Jackson. Of Lord of the Rings fame and 137 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,120 The Hobbit and stuff like that and all the techno industry they 138 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,840 that they have put in place to figure out a way to separate 139 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:57,080 John Lennon's voice from that track that also contained the 140 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,600 piano that was giving him so much trouble before. 141 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,120 And so they're able to take that and basically extract his voice 142 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,800 just out. And now they've put together 143 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:12,720 this song and McCartney and Ringo put together. 144 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,960 Kind of their parts of it. They use some stuff that George 145 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,480 Harrison had done in the past and pulled together this thing 146 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,600 and now there's this song and it's it's amazing to think about 147 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,560 kind of like that kind of thing because you know, being able to 148 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,920 separate out voice from something else, something I do 149 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:31,400 all the time and I take advantage of. 150 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:32,640 Definitely AI in this podcast, right? 151 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,320 Trying to make sure our voices sound, you know, as reasonably 152 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,600 polished as I can, background noises, things like that. 153 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,080 But if you think about. Where they were. 154 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,680 And now like this, this technology is out there for, you 155 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:45,960 know, normal people to be able to use. 156 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:47,080 It's pretty amazing. Yeah. 157 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:48,520 That's really cool, man. That's. 158 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:55,480 I mean, that's that's a beauty. Like a really positive view on 159 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:56,840 AI. Because I think sometimes you 160 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,200 can get dragged down with like a is going to end humanity as we 161 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,440 know it. A is don't put us all out of 162 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,040 jobs. It might, yeah, it might. 163 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,480 But I don't think it will. It's like anything else. 164 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,080 I feel like it's a tool. It can be used for good, bad and 165 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,800 everything in between, and hopefully we have enough guide 166 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,920 rails and things like that around it to try and steer it in 167 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,120 the direction that it should be going. 168 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,640 But it was interesting and I think he's just, again, the kind 169 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,480 of misnomer of, like it wasn't like somebody cloned John 170 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,920 Lennon's voice to do this. It was literally just the 171 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,040 extraction of his voice off of a track that had a lot of 172 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,000 background noise to it. In this case, a piano that was 173 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:36,960 making it very difficult for them to do that in the past, but 174 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,720 it was pretty neat. I think it's, you know, if if 175 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,640 you're a fan of that sort of things or The Beatles, check it 176 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,559 out on Apple Music. They said they have like that 10 177 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,800 or 12 minute sort of like making of video and then the actual 178 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:49,480 song itself. So I don't know if it's 179 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,880 necessarily what I would call a banger, but it's a new Beatles 180 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:54,040 song. I know people kind of go crazy 181 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,160 for that kind of stuff sometimes. 182 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,400 How many people did you have come to your house for 183 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,280 Halloween? I don't know because I wasn't 184 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:03,440 home. I know I I live kind of up on 185 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,040 the side of a mountain and then we had kids come through. 186 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,640 It's kind of like a pack. There's probably like maybe 30 187 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,440 homes I think up here. So I'm not sure how many kids 188 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:19,080 came through, but I want to say somewhere around 2025, maybe at 189 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,200 most had I absolutely. That surprised me, considering 190 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:23,880 you have like the long driveway and everything. 191 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,920 It's a lot of work. That's probably why if I come to 192 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,800 your house, I'm expecting a full size handy bar, I'm saying. 193 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,040 We we did have Snickers and Twix I saw in one of the buckets. 194 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:38,000 So I did notice that last night. But yeah, I wasn't home because 195 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,240 I was on my way to Durham for for work, which was kind of 196 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,160 cool. So I thought this week was like, 197 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,320 this week was kind of like a good showing of like the 198 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,960 differences of like what an identity consultant can be, 199 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,000 especially like some of like our like our roles and things like 200 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,160 that, like just kind of going back, right. 201 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,120 So this is the week of Halloween and. 202 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,920 I was home on Monday for the first time in like weeks to be 203 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:02,440 able to like work from home like fully. 204 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,440 And then of course because I was home that meant like meetings 205 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,960 basically from like 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM non-stop. 206 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,240 And then Tuesday I had meetings in the morning and then needed 207 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,400 to drive out to Durham to run AIM Workshop on Wednesday, which 208 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,560 was a lot of fun. You know, great group of people. 209 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,520 It's interesting to me that we're still finding people out 210 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,400 there and we you and I are so close to this, right. 211 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,480 And everybody probably listened, This is like oh OK, you know, of 212 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,320 course identity, access management, get it, blah blah, 213 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:31,520 blah. But there are still lots of 214 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,000 people out there that really don't know the space. 215 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,160 So being able to conduct like a basically an all day workshop 216 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,160 and kind of educate on here's what I am, is here's what it 217 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,360 means to run a program. You know, here's what IGA is 218 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,720 like. Educating, like, just stuff like 219 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,760 that was a lot of fun. My voice was shot man by the end 220 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,240 of the day Wednesday. I think it talked straight for 221 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:57,720 another 12 hours, but yeah. Then had lunch on Thursday with 222 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,560 our friend Arturo. We talked identity over chicken 223 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:02,920 and waffles. For those interested. 224 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:08,440 We went to Dame's Chicken and Waffles and I give it A7 I 225 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,200 think, or 8. The chicken was good. 226 00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:14,360 The waffle was a little bit small and it wasn't a Belgian 227 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,920 waffle. It was like a cinnamon vanilla 228 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,120 waffle. It was OK, definitely. 229 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,960 I would say it's third place. Am I tearing of chicken and 230 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,480 waffles? Would the chicken Was the 231 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,200 chicken like bone in or was it boneless? 232 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:29,640 Well, you could choose. This is kind of cool things. 233 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,920 You choose your chicken, so you could do like a cutlet, you 234 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:36,240 could do wings, you kind of whatever you know pieces you 235 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:37,920 want. Then you choose the type of 236 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,000 waffle you want. Normal in quotation marks, which 237 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,120 was their cinnamon thing, and then like sweet potato gross. 238 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,640 Or like these other flavors of waffles that that should not be 239 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,280 allowed. And then you pick like a 240 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,840 schmear, which is kind of like Nutella or like a Maple butter 241 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:55,320 or like a whole bunch of different things. 242 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,000 And then you can choose a sauce to dip your chicken in. 243 00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:00,640 So they had like a bunch of stuff that sounds amazing. 244 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,040 And and of course, then, you know, syrup, you know, for the 245 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:04,880 waffle and stuff like that. So yeah, it was good. 246 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:06,120 Like I said, the chicken was good. 247 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,480 The waffle was OK. Not the worst I've had, but 248 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,600 definitely not the best. I'm a Belgian waffle guy, so I 249 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,400 feel like to have the best chicken and waffles, you need 250 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:17,400 Belgian waffle. Bonus points if you've got bacon 251 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,440 in the batter. And then really good fried 252 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,640 chicken. And yeah, it was fun. 253 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,800 So we talked to Identity Chicken and Waffles and I drove home, 254 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,240 had a bunch of days meetings Friday, and then now I'm turning 255 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,200 around the Sunday. I gotta fly out tonight and 256 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:32,720 spend all week on the road again. 257 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,520 Pretty much doing stuff, yeah. Do you think that most people 258 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:41,040 think, oh, Jeff's got this glamorous life, He's traveling 259 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,680 all the time. It's so, so interesting. 260 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,400 It's. I think so. 261 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,760 I think if you don't travel, it may seem like that sometimes, 262 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,520 but you know, for every, I don't know, great travel experience, 263 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,400 we've kind of talked about that. Like there's probably a dozen 264 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,400 bad ones like. You know, I had to leave San 265 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,600 Diego when we were at the Thunder Cake Conference like 266 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,400 very early Wednesday morning, like 4:30 in the morning to make 267 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,720 it out to Indianapolis for for another work item. 268 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,080 And we sat on the tarmac in San Diego for 4 1/2 hours, not going 269 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,680 anywhere because of fog and a whole bunch of other things. 270 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:17,560 And so that was not great. But I like to travel. 271 00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:21,440 So it it it doesn't necessarily, you know, bother me, but I could 272 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,000 certainly wear on you. This will be like by 12 week in 273 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,200 a row. Going somewhere on the road for 274 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,680 something and it'll be interesting. 275 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:34,120 I don't really like to travel. I mean I I like to do a little 276 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,440 bit of travel or some travel. So I I mean I guess this is the, 277 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:41,280 the hopeful message for folks who are considering getting into 278 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,600 consulting but are afraid that they'll be on the road every 279 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,440 week. I think that's the way it used 280 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,240 to be at a lot of consulting firms and probably is still at 281 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,760 some consulting firms. But most of the people who are 282 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:58,480 on the delivery side that I work with and including myself are 283 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,400 not traveling every week. I haven't. 284 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:02,920 I mean, I travel for the conferences. 285 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,120 I did one client travel. Actually, the client travel was 286 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:11,360 super fun because the part I like about travel is getting in 287 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,240 a room with people whiteboarding. 288 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,560 It's just so exciting to actually sit there and kind of 289 00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:19,360 like think through a problem and try to solve a problem and get 290 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,000 as far as you can with the whiteboard. 291 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,240 I love that stuff. And especially when you are kind 292 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,080 of in our role which is you know, you're, you're using your 293 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,880 experience, It's interesting as you're talking about like people 294 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,480 not kind of knowing that I Am and IGA space and stuff like 295 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,720 that. It kind of made me think of 296 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,560 like, well, you know, you and I, we use CRM all the time. 297 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,520 We're well familiar with CRM, but would you be able to go up 298 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,360 and explain it to people like no, but this I am space we 299 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,360 really know. So we can actually sketch things 300 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,040 on the whiteboard and people ask questions like oh so how would 301 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,560 this talk to this And then you, you know from your experience, 302 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,120 so it's a lot of fun and you know I'm I'm working still like 303 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,240 my focus is still I am advisory or digital. 304 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,840 I like to say digital identity advisory because it can span the 305 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,160 whole space. You know, still working a lot 306 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,840 with, there's still a lot of organizations that are kind of 307 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:22,200 working through the blocking and tackling like what is IGA, 308 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:27,040 should I have IGA in most places kind of start with single sign 309 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:28,400 on. But now they're getting into, 310 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,760 you know, how do I do a better job of administering and 311 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,640 governing access? How do I deal with privilege 312 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,880 access management. And so I'm working with a client 313 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,680 right now where you know we we went on, so I did the workshops. 314 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,720 Now we're going back and kind of building out the deliverables 315 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,320 and to me that's fun as well. Like you know, thinking about 316 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,560 everything you heard, putting together an assessment, making 317 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,000 recommendations based on that assessment and turning it into a 318 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,800 consumable story that has a logical beginning and a logical, 319 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:00,960 you know, ending and everything in between. 320 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:07,520 So you know that that is I think the the contrast is you know I 321 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,600 know you're out kind of like meeting with prospective clients 322 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:16,880 or we're actual clients and I'm more at home being able to do 323 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,520 it. And you know I will say I had to 324 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,680 do a lot more travel pre pandemic too because a lot more 325 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,200 clients were 100% in the office and wanted to have you on site. 326 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:33,600 And we're less used to using video conferencing to accomplish 327 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,960 really what it's hard to accomplish what you talked about 328 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,000 you know one day workshop and get everybody to pay attention 329 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,920 to like a teams meeting or Webex all day. 330 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,800 But everybody I think is used to doing it for an hour to two 331 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,960 hours at a time and and staying focused and getting things done. 332 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,680 So I think that's been a a huge way to cut cut down on it. 333 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,480 And then the other thing was, you know, we're kind of like 334 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,800 working through like coming up with a big picture strategy for, 335 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,599 you know, potential projects in the future which would be 336 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,480 converting from a legacy access management solution or web 337 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,160 access management to a modern system. 338 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,200 It's like it's right in my wheelhouse. 339 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,200 So it's not like I don't have to think, I definitely have to 340 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,680 think about it, but it's you know one, that's one of the 341 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,560 things that I think, you know, I'm sure everybody who's like 342 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:32,800 early in their career wants to go faster. 343 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:34,960 They want to move up the chain faster. 344 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,920 And like, hey, I wanted to do the same thing, but there's a 345 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,600 certain amount of experience that when you build it up, it's 346 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,840 like you have these knowings and you have like, I've done that. 347 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,600 I've actually done that. So you can talk about it, and 348 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,080 like you, you can't skip that step. 349 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,440 Yeah, that experience like is so important, but being able to 350 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,480 communicate all that stuff. But I just thought it was really 351 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,520 interesting because we're just before hit recorder, like, all 352 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,440 right, you know, we had like really different weeks. 353 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,160 It's like, OK, that's just, I guess you know. 354 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:07,640 You know, part of its role I think kind of we each play 355 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,160 within, you know what we do for our our real job. 356 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,120 But it's interesting. I was, I was like kind of 357 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,080 peeling back on that and then it'll be another interesting 358 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,880 week on the road again and hopefully. 359 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,200 Your your thing goes well right. And voices sound it'd be 360 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:25,560 interesting. I'm, I'm curious, I'm, I'm 361 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,120 really interested to see how this turns out in the voice 362 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,040 because I know our voices so well for doing all the audio 363 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,120 editing, you know, over 246 episodes. 364 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,720 And it'll be interesting to see, like how it changes, if at all. 365 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,880 Maybe it doesn't. Well, yeah, I'm going to have to 366 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:44,120 rely on people like you to tell me because I listen to the 367 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:45,840 podcast. I'm like, I don't sound like 368 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,840 that. Everybody hates their own voice. 369 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,240 Yeah, But I think mine's changed over time, too. 370 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,160 I think, like, I can tell you right now, I'm not breathing 371 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,440 through my nose. I can't breathe through my nose 372 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:58,800 while I'm talking. Just. 373 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,880 I can kind of tell congested basically well hopefully this 374 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,040 works out for you brother I I'm I'm curious I want to see from a 375 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,800 scientific standpoint but also from a health standpoint you 376 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:09,760 know hopefully it's clears things up for you. 377 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,280 We had a bunch of questions come in that we've like been saving 378 00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:17,080 sort of like a mailbag. We'll see how many we can get to 379 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,880 today, but. A very worldwide mailbag as 380 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,800 well, like a lot of international folks reached out, 381 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,880 which is very cool. What what is our listenership as 382 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,120 far as the the globe is concerned? 383 00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:33,400 I mean, it's not all USI think that at one point we said it was 384 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:34,760 like 60%. Yeah. 385 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,480 It's like around 40% is international. 386 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,480 Sometimes it kind of goes up and down kind of depending on the 387 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,800 month or whatever it may be. But let's call it like 40% is 388 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,480 international, which is pretty cool, you know, for a couple of. 389 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,400 Guys here who can barely speak English as it is, that are 390 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,920 people around the world are able to to listen in. 391 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:56,600 But yeah, so it's cool we get any sort of feedback right from 392 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:57,680 anybody who's listening out there. 393 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,480 But when they send questions and it kind of helps Jim and I out 394 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:01,920 like, OK, what should we talk about? 395 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,160 Like we have an idea of what's interesting for us, but it's 396 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,400 helpful when people. You know, send stuff to us and 397 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,280 usually they send it in via LinkedIn or or things like that. 398 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,600 Every once in a while they'll hit our website, idacpodcast.com 399 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,440 and fill out sort of the contact form and kind of things like 400 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,880 that. But yeah, why don't I just jump 401 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,880 into this, I'll ask the question and let's see if we can stump 402 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,880 you on anything and then if I have any color to add, I'll do 403 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,400 that. All right, that sounds fun. 404 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,120 OK. So the first question comes from 405 00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:36,000 Chloe in Melbourne, Australia. How should companies approach 406 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,080 the integration of IEM with legacy systems that were not 407 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,480 originally designed with modern IEM solutions in mind? 408 00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:45,600 I feel like we get this question a lot. 409 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:47,480 Yeah. What do you think? 410 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,520 What what I have to do is like not try and look at it as a 411 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,920 trick question but kind of take it at face value. 412 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:59,520 I think most I most legacy systems or even modern systems 413 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,360 are not designed with like. Hey, you're going to hook this 414 00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:07,800 into an IM system. They almost all have IM 415 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,360 capabilities built within the application, but especially 416 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:15,600 legacy systems do because there were not centralized ID PS when 417 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,240 they're first started up and they don't have any great 418 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,560 integration capabilities for systems. 419 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:25,280 But you know kind of the OG legacy system that I think of 420 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,200 our like mainframes and mid range computers and application 421 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,840 and they still exist in a lot of organizations. 422 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,560 They don't interface well with an access management system. 423 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:41,560 They don't typically work super well with an IGA system. 424 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,320 Really what you're looking at is kind of for them. 425 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,760 It's like a middleware situation where if you have like a top 426 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:52,080 secret type of application, if you can, you know from an IGA 427 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:57,520 perspective kind of extract and populate user accounts and. 428 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,400 You know, do the best that you can in terms of like password 429 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,960 management. That's a major benefit. 430 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,360 Obviously if you're only Max accessing that application 431 00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:11,760 through some kind of front end processor, maybe like a web 432 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,200 front end that you built to that application, that's great. 433 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,400 But usually that's not the only way that people end up accessing 434 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,600 those mainframes. And of course you have like 435 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,520 web-based technologies and fat clients and a lot of those 436 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,440 things are going away. I think one of the key things is 437 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:32,720 like if you are rolling out an IM technology I you know 438 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,760 modernizing your IM platform and you think about those 439 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,440 applications, you have to really ask yourself like is this 440 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,960 application going to be around more than two, three years? 441 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,280 If it is, then it's worth the effort to integrate it, 442 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,360 especially if it's a high risk application. 443 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,800 I think if it's. If it doesn't qualify, it's 444 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,600 either you're not sure. It's like, do you really want to 445 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,360 spend the money? Because those can be very 446 00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:59,800 difficult to integrate with. That's my initial thought, yeah. 447 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,480 The the part you talked about is what I kind of started with 448 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:03,400 this. Is it worth it? 449 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,000 You know, are we going to get value out of this? 450 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,880 Are there other things that we need to be working on that are 451 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,960 either quicker, faster, you know, whatever. 452 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,800 It'd be easier if, like, I wouldn't start with stuff that 453 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,920 doesn't lend itself well to integration because the next 454 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,400 question is, OK, So we've determined that it's worth it. 455 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,760 Now we have to decide, well, what do we mean by integration? 456 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,160 Are we just talking authentication? 457 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,720 Are we talking authorization? Do we need to do identity 458 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,320 governance, privileged access, audit logging, you know, 459 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,200 behavior analytics, right, things like that. 460 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,560 So I think you kind of figure out like, OK, what's worth it to 461 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,120 do is a big part of the answering that question. 462 00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:42,880 And sometimes the answer is no, it's not worth it. 463 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,240 Let's focus on the 80% that we can do. 464 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:51,160 And some things will just remain the way they are until the 465 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,160 mainframe dies again for what, the fourth time in the last two 466 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:55,880 decades at least that I've been hearing about it. 467 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,520 So it's kind of like the password. 468 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,720 Like everybody keeps expecting mainframes to go away, but 469 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,480 they're still around and still actively being used. 470 00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:04,040 But I think those are the two things. 471 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,040 Everything you said was like, right on, definitely, like, for 472 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:07,880 sure. And it's is it worth it? 473 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,320 And then what do you mean by integrate, like define what that 474 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,320 integration looks like? Because I don't, I think you can 475 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,160 also say, OK, well, for this application, maybe it's just 476 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,040 authentication. We've got to put an MFA in front 477 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,800 of it and that's it. We're good. 478 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,600 Like it's not worth doing the rest. 479 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,920 I think calculating that, you know that benefit and whether 480 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,800 it's worth the time or the effort makes a lot of sense. 481 00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:31,160 OK, let's move to the next one. This one is from Priya in 482 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,040 Bangalore, India. What are the emerging trends in 483 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,960 IAM that you believe will shape the way we handle identity 484 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,160 verification and access control in the next five years? 485 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,920 Well, I think you know, identity verification to me brings up the 486 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,360 whole idea around verifiable credentials, which is something 487 00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:56,320 like a passport or a driver's license or some other. 488 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,440 You know, government issued identifier or identification 489 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,960 card that can be scanned usually both sides where they have some 490 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:11,760 kind of encrypted version of your face and then a picture of 491 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,480 you and can then use your your camera to identify you. 492 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,800 So I think that's, you know, we see it. 493 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,920 Very minor use cases. I think the commoditization of 494 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,040 that capability is a very real possibility in the next five 495 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,800 years. So you know, I think that's what 496 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,840 we start to see that you know, ubiquity is it's, it's not just 497 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,960 about like being on the bleeding edge and and spotting something 498 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,800 that you know is way far out there and saying, OK, that's 499 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,160 that's the trend to me. It's like OK, what is now 500 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,920 building this head of steam in ubiquity. 501 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,800 Is ubiquity so important? It's like with passkeys, it's 502 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,280 like it's starting to have ubiquity. 503 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,320 When Google uses and things like that and people get used to it, 504 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,960 now other companies can follow and then everybody's doing it 505 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,240 like there's no passwords anymore potentially. 506 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,840 So I think from an identity verification standpoint, you're 507 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,920 starting to see it. It's running into some privacy 508 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,880 concerns. But I think that's the the way 509 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,040 that within five years we start saying, OK that's normal. 510 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,720 Yeah, I feel like this is less of a technology problem at this 511 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,200 point and more of a people and process because what's going to 512 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,800 drive verify credential will be really government I think to 513 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,040 some degree because I want mobile driver's license. 514 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,120 So I have one less thing that I have to carry on with me, right. 515 00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:36,080 It's in my wallet. I mean it's in it's in my wallet 516 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,320 today. But I want it on my phone. 517 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:38,800 So I have you know, less of those things. 518 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,440 But I can only go as fast as my government will let me, right. 519 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,040 And I can only speak from the, you know, from the, from the US 520 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:51,160 perspective is I don't know how quickly all states in the US 521 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,000 will catch on with this and sort of get there. 522 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,160 I hope it's within five years. And I know there's certainly a 523 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,000 few states that have already kind of gone down this road. 524 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,560 And I think I think Georgia is one of them, right. 525 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,200 Isn't there a mobile driver's license in Georgia? 526 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,360 And you're in Georgia. Yes, Georgia is one of the few. 527 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:09,080 Yeah. So I think that's one thing to 528 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,560 think about is how quickly will it actually move based on 529 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,560 people, governments, organizations and citizens and 530 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:19,960 things like that. Because I don't think this is a 531 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,160 technology problem anymore. I think there are enough 532 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:27,320 solutions out there and enough sources of truth to actually 533 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,720 validate A credential that that's where my head is at right 534 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,520 now. Change is hard. 535 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,560 I mean I think you've got great technology options out there, 536 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,120 but now we're talking about changing the way people do 537 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:41,560 business, people interact with government. 538 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,320 You, you rightfully so, need to have a lot of caution. 539 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:50,080 Privacy concerns, you know, things like that certainly will 540 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,960 rear their ugly heads as we're going through this process and 541 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,560 make sure that things are covered and designed to be 542 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,280 secure and and that's kind of what I'm thinking about right 543 00:27:58,280 --> 00:27:59,560 now. Yeah. 544 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,600 I mean if if you think look at it from AUS perspective, there's 545 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,600 kind of like distrust of the government built right into the 546 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:12,720 US Constitution where you have the right not to be searched in 547 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:13,720 some. Situations. 548 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,880 Yeah, Yeah. Well, like, could you imagine 549 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:21,080 being pulled over and then the police person asking you to 550 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,720 unlock your phone and hand it to them, Would you want to do that? 551 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,480 I wouldn't want to do that. And I don't think I have a lot 552 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,680 to hide from. Oh, they're going to find 553 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,920 something and arrest me for it. But it's just it's it's not, 554 00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:36,000 it's not appropriate. I don't think it's fair and I 555 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,920 don't think that is the way it should work. 556 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,240 So that's just one example. Yeah. 557 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,560 OK, let's go to the next one. This one is from, and I hope I 558 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,160 pronounced this correctly, Takumi in Tokyo, Japan. 559 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,280 What role do you see artificial intelligence playing in the 560 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,920 future of IAM? And how can we ensure these 561 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,160 systems are transparent and fair? 562 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,240 Wow, that's a loaded question. You go 1st. 563 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,840 I'm going. To yeah, I'll go first, but I'm 564 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,200 going to like pick on the first part of the question, which is 565 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:12,080 like the role that I see. And I think if you look far 566 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:17,680 enough out, it's artificial intelligence can run IM systems 567 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,720 for organization. So a lot more can be right now 568 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,360 we're relying on humans to run the run the software. 569 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:33,080 I think that AI could become the runner of the software because I 570 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,320 don't think there's a whole lot that can't be automated. 571 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:42,080 And I also feel like there's when you say run, what do you 572 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,440 mean? Like going in and configuring 573 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,400 workflows, resolving errors and configurations? 574 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,600 Like what do you mean? So I always like to try to take 575 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,120 the 8020 rule, and I don't think that everything's going to be 576 00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:01,680 automated, but I feel like just like SoC is being outsourced. 577 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,280 By companies to companies that run socks. 578 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,680 For many other organizations, I think I am will kind of come the 579 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:13,760 same way, where it'll it'll be run by an, you know, outsourced 580 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,080 by an organization to some third party. 581 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,760 But that software will do most of the running of the software, 582 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,640 providing support through a automated fashion. 583 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,480 All that plus I think the other thing there's shortcomings in. 584 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,880 Identity management now. So I I can see a big functional 585 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,920 up ramp where we say OK, IGA is not only knowing who has access 586 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,640 to what, but also what are they doing with that access. 587 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,800 In order to do that, there's a lot of big data that needs to be 588 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,120 pushed into some kind of store and analyzed and those are 589 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,680 things that that people can't do. 590 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,120 So this is like the the two major areas that I see. 591 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,680 How do we make sure that it's transparent and fair? 592 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,760 You know, I think that really comes down to artificial 593 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,560 intelligence is just computer code, right? 594 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,560 I mean, it's lines of programming and it's going to 595 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,360 have hard coded decisions. So if there's decisions are not 596 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:24,080 transparent and fair, then the IGI AM system or the AI system 597 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:25,880 will not be transparent and fair. 598 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:30,080 So there's got to be some. Kind of rules of conduct, I 599 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,480 here's one of my concerns is that like I feel like if AI goes 600 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,280 so fast that we don't get these rules of the road in place, 601 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:46,840 we're going to say, OK, we rely on on AI to make certain 602 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,160 decisions. For us, but we don't know how 603 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:51,800 it's going to make those decisions. 604 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,120 So it's already happening. It to some extent where we say 605 00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:00,160 identity threat protection is going to spot certain types of 606 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:05,600 behaviors and then block access. And so right now for the most 607 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,520 part where I've seen it, it's kind of a black box. 608 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,760 It's not like oh you want to allow headless browsers or don't 609 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,400 allow headless browsers right now that's probably clearly we 610 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,360 don't want to allow them. So maybe black box is all we 611 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,280 need for the moment. But I kind of feel like if we 612 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,320 don't, if we say, well we want to block people from North Korea 613 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,920 or we don't want to block people from North Korea, like if that's 614 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,080 black box and everybody needs to block people from North Korea, 615 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,320 Well doesn't that go right to transparent in fairness like 616 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,040 maybe people in North Korea should be able to you know enjoy 617 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,200 the Internet. Obviously these other issues, I 618 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,160 don't think they don't think they they weigh into that 619 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,480 decision at all, these people. I don't think so either. 620 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,200 But I was trying to come up with some kind of example. 621 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,960 What if it was like China or some other country that you know 622 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,280 it's like oh that's a a state sponsored terrorist country And 623 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,160 we're not going to, we're you know we as a corporation we're 624 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,320 going to block those people and now you as an organization who 625 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,080 buys their their AI software, you're blocking all those 626 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,240 people. Is that transparent and fair? 627 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,400 I don't even answer not I think I don't know if we block people 628 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,760 or more organizations I guess, but it's clear AI is going to 629 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,680 have an impact on IM, right? We, we keep talking about it on 630 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:21,920 this show. You hear it at like every 631 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,960 conference and every webinar that you go to has some sort of 632 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,960 AI component. At this point, I'm bullish on 633 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,280 it. I think it will be helpful. 634 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,080 I think again things like large language models have really 635 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,320 changed my perception of where this kind of take things in the 636 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,800 future. The transparency and fairness 637 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,120 around it I believe is, you know, you want to have systems 638 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,680 that are well designed, they're secure and they're accessible 639 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,440 for people. When we start introducing a 640 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,080 black box as you start, you know, call it at least for the 641 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,840 AI perspective, their duty is there does need to be a way to 642 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,880 look at how the decisions are being made, you know, even 643 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:01,880 programmatically. And I think this is an area that 644 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,360 I'm starting to see more thought go into, is attacks on large 645 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,360 language models themselves. So what happens if you poison an 646 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:15,080 organization's AI to give wrong or misleading information? 647 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,320 That could be another way that I think people are gonna have to 648 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:19,840 start thinking about. It's like, how do we make sure 649 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,960 we keep our AI secure? And that how do you validate 650 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,040 that the decision making that it's making is based off of 651 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,639 accuracy on facts versus maybe something that somebody put in 652 00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:33,719 there, right? Maybe it's, you know, somebody 653 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,840 gets in and says, hey, just, you know, just move this decimal 654 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,560 point over a little bit and take fractions of a penny, right. 655 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,199 You know, that kind of scenario, right. 656 00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:45,440 I think it's like, OK, how do we make sure that that stuff is 657 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:46,760 there? And I think we definitely have 658 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,760 seen, I think the industry's starting to come together on 659 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,960 this. I think the White House in the 660 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:53,199 US just put out a directive on this. 661 00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:57,440 You certainly see Microsoft and Meta and other and Open AI and 662 00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,960 like others that are in this AI space starting to kind of figure 663 00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:02,120 out how are we going to tackle this? 664 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,960 I don't know. I think it's, I think it'll be 665 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,640 interesting to see it comes out as they move things along. 666 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,400 I think there's two things I just want to throw in there 667 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,840 based on what you said. First off, I don't know how 668 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,240 we're going to solve this Rules of the road thing. 669 00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:18,600 Like we still haven't solved privacy policies. 670 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,800 You go to a website and it's like, oh, by clicking accept you 671 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,840 agree to our privacy policy. Click here to read it. 672 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,080 If you click here to read it, it's like 8000 pages long and. 673 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,360 You don't read it anyway. It's like if you want to use the 674 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,160 website, you just accept that is not the spirit of what's meant 675 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,800 to happen. And if we run into that same 676 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,960 kind of thing, then, you know, it's going to be every person 677 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,400 for themselves. The other thing I I think with 678 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,320 AI and I am, is mostly when I hear vendors talk about, Oh 679 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,240 yeah, we've got AI. And then when they explain what 680 00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:55,280 it does, I'm like that's that's not revolutionary. 681 00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,080 That is not revolutionary. So does that mean it's not going 682 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,200 to be revolutionary? No, I do think it will be at 683 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,240 some point. But I also wonder if it's just 684 00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:09,600 going to be the major tech companies are the only ones who 685 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,120 can provide the AI because they're the only ones who can 686 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,040 actually create the AI. Yeah, it takes a lot of 687 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,160 resources to develop this thing. So do we end up in the cyberpunk 688 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,840 mega Corp world where the world is right, like 8 different 689 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,200 organizations and it's all it's all business? 690 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,080 OK, we've got another question from Japan and I definitely 691 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:30,640 don't know how to pronounce this, but I'll try to get it 692 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,800 right, either UE or maybe we from Kyoto, Japan asking. 693 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,560 Glad you're to it. I'm glad you're taking taking 694 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:39,800 the I'll. I'll take the heat if I 695 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,680 pronounce that green correctly. Let me know how can I am 696 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,640 solutions be designed to be more user friendly without 697 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,720 compromising on security features. 698 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:49,480 I mean, that's the usual question. 699 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:54,240 Talking solutions be designed to be more user friendly. 700 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,640 I say it's the usual question because it's always been like 701 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,440 considered a bounce between usability and security. 702 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,480 Meaning it's like you if you had a slider, if you make it more 703 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,640 secure, it's going to be less user friendly, can make it more 704 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,960 user friendly, it's going to be less secure. 705 00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:15,080 You know the the tagline for everything Pastor list is like 706 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:20,880 actually, it's one of those few. Scenarios where when you make 707 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,120 it, you're more user friendly, you get rid of passwords, you 708 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:28,360 actually make it more secure, which I do think is true, but I 709 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,000 think you know the spirit of the question is like, OK if I'm 710 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,520 designing an IM system, how do I make sure that I get both 711 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,120 things? I think it's involvement. 712 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,400 Of the users. It kind of goes back to the 713 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,080 discussion we were having about workshops. 714 00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:47,080 What's one way to ensure that your IM deployment will fail is 715 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,600 like, don't include people that it's going to affect. 716 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,760 Yeah, you don't include them, it's almost guaranteed to fail, 717 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,240 but you do include them. You increase your likelihood of 718 00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:57,440 success. They'll also give you the 719 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,560 feedback of like, what do they not understand? 720 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,280 Because a lot of times user friendliness just comes down to 721 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,360 making it more understandable if you kind of get inside the head 722 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,800 of. You know whoever your customer 723 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:14,320 or user is, and you design around that, you can increase 724 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,560 the user friendliness without even affecting security. 725 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:23,400 You may also find that like there's no way we can remember 726 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,160 16 character passwords. Like that's not going to work 727 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,880 and so you might have to, you might have to. 728 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,400 I'm. I'm presuming that's a really 729 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,000 bad example, but. Just using that as an area where 730 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,160 you might say, OK, well, actually involving the users 731 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,560 made me rethink this password policy. 732 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,320 But if you, you think about it, like, yeah, when you give people 733 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,760 16 character passwords, they're going to find ways around 734 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,800 they're write down the password or they're going to do whatever 735 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:56,320 they have to do to not make it so that they have to go through 736 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,680 a reset password every time. No, there's a added number. 737 00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:00,480 I think it's the number at the end, yeah. 738 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:02,440 That's how we get it. Include this. 739 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,240 Folks in your process and and really listen to them. 740 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:08,160 And then I add a question to this as well because I think 741 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,120 this next one is kind of in the same vein. 742 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:15,440 It's from Beatrice in Rome. How can organizations ensure 743 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,840 that their IM solutions are inclusive and accessible to all 744 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,520 users regardless of their technical skill level. 745 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,680 So I think he kind of touched there and the question previous 746 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,800 question around do people understand what they're doing 747 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,560 like what's the training, what's the, you know, how do we bring 748 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,760 people up to speed. But thoughts on inclusivity and 749 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:39,280 accessibility and how that how that aligns with technical 750 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,040 capability? Yeah, it's it's not only 751 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,440 technical capability, but you also think about disabilities 752 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:50,480 like some folks have, you know, different types of issues and 753 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:55,120 there are browsers made for, you know, different disabilities 754 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,000 that you know, if you can't, if you're blind for example, that 755 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,960 they can. Read for you. 756 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:05,920 Or, you know, if you just make assumptions that everybody fits 757 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:10,240 a certain mold, everybody has the ability to see or everybody 758 00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:13,960 has the ability to hear or they're all using a keyboard to 759 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,920 enter like you need to challenge his assumptions. 760 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,920 And I think this becomes more and more true as you're 761 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,840 providing services to the citizens. 762 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,600 So I I think that's it's so easy to kind of like fall into the 763 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:30,000 mindset of like oh, I've been working with you know, B to E 764 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,360 kind of scenarios with you know, certain size employee 765 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,920 populations, captive audience or they're just in the US and 766 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,920 everybody's going to kind of have the same understanding and 767 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:42,720 all that. When you're talking about like 768 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,080 you know the citizens or you're talking about large global 769 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,080 outreach or you're talking about B to C, you have to take up all 770 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,640 these things into account even more and challenge yourself on 771 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,360 those moves. Basic assumptions that people 772 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,680 have these capabilities. I think from a technical skill 773 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:05,080 level, you know, again I think it's technical skills can be a 774 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:10,000 lot of things, but I think it also can map back to you know, 775 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,320 age and experience especially like the older population within 776 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,560 our world they were did not grow up with technology in their 777 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,120 hands from a very early age. I I kind of feel like the 778 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:27,400 technical skills of teenagers is probably a lot better than you 779 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,920 know, technical skills of of senior citizens. 780 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:31,920 You know, we haven't talked about your dad in a while. 781 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,800 Like, how would you? That's exactly who I was 782 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,280 thinking. I figured, How would you explain 783 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,280 a passkey to your dad? I wouldn't. 784 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,520 I would not even try. I will tell you that he's found 785 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,160 e-mail within the last couple of years and it's like he's bonkers 786 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,400 over e-mail. He like, emails me all the time 787 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:51,920 and I'm like and then he gets mad. 788 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,280 If I don't e-mail him right back. 789 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,040 I'm like dad, it's not like it's not. 790 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,320 It's not a real. Time messaging platform, right? 791 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,280 Yeah. We were out the other night and 792 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,280 sat down with some folks who we didn't know. 793 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:08,560 They're just strangers. And the guy next to me, the guy 794 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,520 who like, shared their table with us, he's very excited. 795 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,960 He took a picture of he and his wife and posted to Facebook. 796 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,760 You got 32 likes on it in like 1/2 hour. 797 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:24,040 And he's like, showed me. I was like, Oh my goodness, Oh 798 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,080 my goodness, I've already been through. 799 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,640 I was on Facebook for a decade and then closed my account like 800 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,800 5-6 years ago. And like, you could tell he just 801 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,040 got Facebook. And he's like excited that so 802 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,080 many people like this picture with his wife, which I was happy 803 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,760 for him because he's kind of like almost in that infancy 804 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,040 level of dealing with Facebook. He hasn't. 805 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,240 He hasn't like. Felt the like the hatred for it 806 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,480 yet. Embrace the joy that happens. 807 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,520 Embrace the joy. All right. 808 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,160 This is our last one and I think this is 1 near and dear to your 809 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,480 heart. So from Rachel in Seattle, WA. 810 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,160 With the proliferation of micro services and containerized 811 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,000 environments, how can organizations effectively manage 812 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,120 and secure machine identities at scale? 813 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,640 You're all about machine identities recently, so let's 814 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,320 have at it. Well, yeah. 815 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,800 Well, we had David Mahdie on and I think that was a fantastic 816 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,240 episode. So if you want to really dive in 817 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,560 to that that topic, I would go back and listen to that episode. 818 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:31,200 But you know kind of pulling Rachel's question apart here, I 819 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,720 think, you know there's two different types of machine 820 00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:38,320 identities of those that are static and those that are 821 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,960 created and destroyed, you know, perhaps within seconds. 822 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,120 But I think what we're trying to get to is like 0 sending 823 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,000 privileges. So I think that even those 824 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:53,120 machines that are created and destroyed, you know, the the 825 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,800 idea is that OK, you're not creating an account that should 826 00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,920 be around and and like I'm going to create the account. 827 00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:01,880 I'm just going to let it sit there until I need it again. 828 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,400 And then we had to just check it out and do what I have to do. 829 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:10,200 But the idea is already pre thought in terms of what access 830 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:14,920 that account needs to have to do the thing that this application 831 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:19,800 or service wants to do. And so those rules of the road 832 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,880 should be set. They should be built into the 833 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,120 micro services that create and destroy that account. 834 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,400 Like you can only get an account that has this much and then 835 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,720 business rules may be that all right if it's not destroyed 836 00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:35,120 within a certain amount of time, then it's destroyed. 837 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,880 Those you know as information security professionals we need 838 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:44,960 to talk with the the developers of these micro services to you 839 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,160 know agree on the rules of the road so that they understand. 840 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:52,920 We understand we can stay within our controls, You know, for 841 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:57,720 these accounts that always have to exist and maybe have standing 842 00:44:57,720 --> 00:45:00,720 privileges, we just have to have controls around them. 843 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,960 You know, we need to understand what they're being used for. 844 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:08,320 And that way we can build our logging around, you know, 845 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,600 knowing that we can build our life cycle processes around, you 846 00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,840 know, making sure that that account is created properly and 847 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,160 reviewed periodically and destroyed. 848 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,840 So I I kind of feel like the rules of Rd. are kind of the 849 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,000 same. You know, in terms of you've got 850 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,960 to understand what these accounts are intended to do, use 851 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:37,240 least privileged in terms of, you know, either creating them 852 00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:43,440 or allowing them to be created. And then in the long run, you 853 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,480 have to monitor what's being done with them. 854 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,880 I think I don't know if I have anything better to add to that 855 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,560 other than listen to Jim's answer and then go back and 856 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,720 listen to I think it was episode 239. 857 00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:56,080 It was the first one that we did. 858 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,000 With the authenticate kind of slew of episodes that we threw 859 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,120 out there. So yeah, that's probable. 860 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:03,840 I guess I'll leave it there for that one. 861 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,640 Why don't we go ahead and start to wrap things up. 862 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,000 And I was thinking about how we want to end on a lighter note 863 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,600 today. And I'm drawing on my experience 864 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,360 of yesterday, which was a Saturday and heading up into the 865 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,440 Blue Ridge Mountains. Very faint cell phone service 866 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,560 where we were in the middle of nowhere, basically at a friend's 867 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,240 kind of. Barbecue, hang out, campfire 868 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,560 something or other or whatever you want to call it and you 869 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,800 know, a bunch of people just hanging around playing games and 870 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,240 eating food and just talking and chatting and sitting enjoying 871 00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:38,720 the the great weather that it was. 872 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:43,480 What is your favorite backyard BBQ party game? 873 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,840 I've got one answer in three different parts, of course. 874 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:54,800 So well, my OG original, I think OG stands for Rich from 875 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,160 gangster, right? Yes, straight from the hood. 876 00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,040 Yeah, Mike, that's Jimmy Mack straight from the hood. 877 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,000 Jimmy Mack in the hood. Well, my favorite lawn game or 878 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,680 BBQ game was Jarts. Remember Jarts? 879 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,080 I definitely remember that. That didn't last very long. 880 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,520 Didn't they ban that? Well, imagine if one of those 881 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:15,600 Jarts landed on your forehead. You'd be DOA man. 882 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,800 I remember heavy. I was probably like six or 883 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,600 seven, I think, and we had a we had a set. 884 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:22,640 And yeah, that was the first thing you thought I was like, 885 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,840 all right, how much damage can we do with this thing? 886 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:28,160 That was a great game, though, too. 887 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,040 Like, even if you just played it by the rules, like, let's be 888 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:32,640 hard not to have fun with charts. 889 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,840 So for people who aren't familiar with charts, explain 890 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,600 what it is. So they were like like very 891 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:43,760 large darts and the ends were, yeah, the points were heavily 892 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,160 weighted. So you can basically swing them 893 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:50,760 to your on the side of your body and like launch them maybe 100 894 00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:55,400 feet or 50 feet to a target and they would always land heavy 895 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:59,360 side like dart point into the ground and they would land and 896 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,360 they would stick. So that was the game. 897 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,560 It was essentially like a a bullseye. 898 00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:09,040 You set up some kind of target on two ends and you have some 899 00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:12,160 scoring system which I think worked like, you know, 900 00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,200 horseshoes, which is my second answer. 901 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:18,800 But it was with these darts and they, I think they somehow were 902 00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,640 banned, they disappeared. Yeah, I think real quickly too, 903 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,640 because I think it's like, oh, maybe we shouldn't have people 904 00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,600 throwing lawn darts basically into the air and having them 905 00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,920 come down and spiking people and they weren't there. 906 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:32,400 It wasn't even a pointy tip, right? 907 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,280 It was just weighted. But if it if anything falls from 908 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,200 a high enough distance, it's going to do some damage. 909 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:42,280 And yeah, yeah, it was heavy and there wasn't pointed like a 910 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,720 sharp point, but even that dull point I think would have cracked 911 00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:48,080 through a skull. Yeah, definitely not safe. 912 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,120 Yeah, not safe. Anyway, my second one is 913 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,760 horseshoes and my third one is cornhole, which, I mean, 914 00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:59,320 everybody plays cornhole now and it's, they're all like tossing 915 00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:03,280 things, yeah, Which even if you've had a few micro brews, 916 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,400 it's you're still able to throw things. 917 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,040 Yeah, maybe not well or accurately, but yeah, I like 918 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,920 the, I like cornhole. I, you know I have a couple. 919 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,480 So cornhole, we definitely did that yesterday. 920 00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,080 We did the other thing that I'd like to do, and this is 921 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,800 something my wife's family introduces, Bocci, so Oh yeah. 922 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:23,960 Super easy. People can, Kind of. 923 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,960 Of all ages and skill ranges can play and we have like a a 924 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:32,160 Christmas tradition when we can make it out there to have a 925 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:36,040 Christmas Bocci game in the backyard and it's if and usually 926 00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,960 it's in Chicago which means it's like you know less than 0 927 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,080 degrees freezing and no one is dressed for the occasion 928 00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,840 typically and we're out freezing in someone's backyard in the 929 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:50,160 dark trying to play Bocci and a lot of good memories kind of 930 00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:51,960 around that. So I think that's probably my 931 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,120 favorite one. But yesterday Jim, I did 932 00:49:55,120 --> 00:50:01,920 something that I am proud slash saddened to tell you that I won 933 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:06,840 a particular game and I'll I'll give you one one guess but I'm 934 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,320 I'm sure you won't guess it. What is the game you think it 935 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,440 was shooting? Arrows. 936 00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,880 Prouds at a OK. How about it? 937 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:16,880 No. Is that it? 938 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:18,520 I'll tell you it was food related. 939 00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,360 Oh, hot dog eating contest. No, I definitely wouldn't win 940 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:22,600 that, although I look like I would. 941 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,240 I we did a doughnut eating contest. 942 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,880 Now, I have never done this before, but it was not like 943 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:32,800 consume as many doughnuts as you can. 944 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:34,600 It wasn't. That was not the contest. 945 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,720 So what we did is we took doughnut rings basically and ran 946 00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:43,960 a string through them. And then who could eat the 947 00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,440 doughnut fastest off of the string without using their 948 00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,040 hands? And the doughnut could not hit 949 00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,840 the ground. So there's some strategy there, 950 00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:54,880 right where you've got a string running through a doughnut in 951 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,080 the doughnut hole and people are trying to eat it and the string 952 00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,640 is moving because everybody is trying to eat it at the same 953 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:05,440 time. And I am proud slash sad to 954 00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,880 report to you that I won, You won. 955 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,440 I was not the fastest, but I was the most strategic. 956 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:14,840 I went slow, methodical. And people who were very close 957 00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,360 to the end, they were about to win. 958 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,720 And then the doughnut fell on the ground. 959 00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,840 So it was very hairy there. At the last few seconds, as I 960 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,640 kind of took the last big bite, I had to do the lean back and 961 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,040 try and make sure that nothing fell. 962 00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,440 But yeah, my proudest, it was just one doughnut. 963 00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:34,640 That was it. Just one doughnut. 964 00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,000 It was a glazed doughnut. They had a vanilla frosting on 965 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:38,800 it, but that was it. There was like six of us in a 966 00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:43,960 row and we were all trying to. You know, eat the doughnut on 967 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:45,520 the string without letting it hit the ground. 968 00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,680 Well, congratulations. I'm proud of you. 969 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:50,480 Send help. I don't know. 970 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:52,880 This is my proudest moment. This is my proudest moment of 971 00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:53,440 you, Jeff. This. 972 00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:54,320 Is a. This is a real. 973 00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:58,920 This is a real highlight hearing a second hand story about your 974 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,320 donut eating contest. Yeah, and I love doughnuts. 975 00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:03,200 Yeah, I certainly. You don't need to put a string 976 00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:04,280 through it and put me in a contest. 977 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:05,520 I will have a doughnut any time of day. 978 00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,000 But yeah, I don't know if I should be proud or sad of it. 979 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:09,640 I think my wife was both as well. 980 00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,480 Honorable mention to the Dizzy Bat race. 981 00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,360 OK, yeah, Dizzy. We did like the ping, the ping, 982 00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:17,960 the tail on the donkey type thing. 983 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:19,120 So it was someone's birthday party. 984 00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:23,120 So yeah, we did that as well. And yeah, Sasha, you had a great 985 00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:24,040 time. It was a good time. 986 00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:25,720 We're out. I mean, you know, out in the 987 00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,200 literally the middle of like nowhere probably, you know, Blue 988 00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:32,400 Ridge Mountains for sure, you know, barely any cell signal. 989 00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,600 And yeah, it was fun. It was good times, you know, 990 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,080 kind of relaxing and stuff like that, so. 991 00:52:37,240 --> 00:52:40,520 But now I'm off to the airport for another week filled of 992 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:45,080 travel and identity hijinks and then I'll be back later. 993 00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,240 So say hi to the people at the Delta Club for. 994 00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:50,400 Me. Yeah, I definitely will. 995 00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,160 All right, let's go and wrap it up for this week. 996 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,840 Listen to the show, like subscribe, share with your 997 00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:00,720 friends. That's how we motivates us to 998 00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:02,360 keep going. We'd probably be doing it if no 999 00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,200 one was listening, but we've definitely seen a large growth 1000 00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,640 in listenership and. Definitely thank everyone out 1001 00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,160 there for for sharing the word. We're on the web. 1002 00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:10,840 And Jeff, can I throw one thing in there? 1003 00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:14,200 Absolutely. If people like the show, even if 1004 00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,400 they don't get the show from YouTube, if you could go out 1005 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,920 next time you're in YouTube, look us up and subscribe. 1006 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,920 That way we can start to see that subscriber number grow. 1007 00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,120 That would be fantastic, yeah. So go to the website 1008 00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,480 idacpodcast.com. In the upper right there'll be a 1009 00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,040 link to the YouTube channel. Go over there, start 1010 00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,360 subscribing. I only do 3 uploads a day, so 1011 00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,040 we're not spanning people's YouTube feeds. 1012 00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,040 And eventually it'll catch up with where we're at in real 1013 00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,200 time. And then you'll expect to see 1014 00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:44,960 podcast there as well, just like we do all the time. 1015 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:50,560 We're on Twitter, X whatever at IDAC Podcast Mastodon at IDAC 1016 00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,000 Podcast at Infosec dot Exchange, and of course Jim and I. 1017 00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:55,560 You're on LinkedIn. We also have the LinkedIn page 1018 00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,480 that I started recently starting to see, starting to tag that and 1019 00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:00,520 all the announcements for the show and stuff like that to try 1020 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,720 and make it easy for people. Not sure how we'll kind of 1021 00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:06,440 leverage it yet, but I figured, you know, after 200 and some 1022 00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:10,720 episodes, it just posts all the same things that you and I post. 1023 00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:14,560 Yeah, exactly. And yeah, so definitely reach 1024 00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:17,040 out, thanks to the listeners who sent in their questions. 1025 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,840 If we didn't get to them this time, we save them up every so 1026 00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,520 often and we kind of dress them as much as we can and when we 1027 00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:24,280 can. But feel free to send those in. 1028 00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,920 And yeah, thanks everybody for listening and we'll talk with 1029 00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,680 everybody in the next one. You've been listening to 1030 00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:35,600 Identity at the center. We hope you've enjoyed the show. 1031 00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,600 Make sure to like, rate and review. 1032 00:54:38,720 --> 00:54:41,600 And we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hit the 1033 00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:45,720 website at identity@thecenter.com and find 1034 00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:53,160 us on Twitter at IDAC Podcast. See you next time on Identity at 1035 00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:54,080 the Center.