1 00:00:09,700 --> 00:00:12,500 You're listening to the identity at the center podcast. 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:14,900 This is the show that talks about identity and access 3 00:00:14,900 --> 00:00:18,000 management and making sure you know who has access to what 4 00:00:18,100 --> 00:00:26,800 let's get started. Welcome to the identity of the 5 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:28,000 sender podcast. I'm Jeff. 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:29,200 And that's Jim. Hey, Jim. 7 00:00:29,500 --> 00:00:30,800 Hey, Jeff. How are you? 8 00:00:30,900 --> 00:00:33,200 Happy New Year? My man happy New Year. 9 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,800 Feels like forever. Since we've done one of these at 10 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,200 least a couple weeks for sure. Yeah. 11 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,600 But you have to, you have to get the cobwebs out. 12 00:00:41,900 --> 00:00:44,400 I was wondering Jeff. Did you get a nice Christmas 13 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,300 gifts? You know, I did go nice wallet 14 00:00:47,300 --> 00:00:50,400 for my wife. I am a terrible person to shop 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,000 for because I'm one of those people who just if I see 16 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,200 something, I just buy it. So I did get a wallet for my 17 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,100 wife, the proverbial Snickers bar every year, which I'm a huge 18 00:01:00,100 --> 00:01:03,600 fan of Snickers bars. So yeah, it was, it was good 19 00:01:03,700 --> 00:01:07,300 about yourself, I did. But but first, just the wallet. 20 00:01:07,300 --> 00:01:11,100 I can't see you with like, the big George Costanza wallet with 21 00:01:11,100 --> 00:01:15,400 a bunch of coupons. Like you're a cashless guy, I'm 22 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:17,500 picture. Some kind of high-tech wallet 23 00:01:17,500 --> 00:01:22,000 that blocks the ability to scan your chip cards and all that 24 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,300 jazz. Of course, for those interested 25 00:01:25,300 --> 00:01:29,300 I have a ridge wallet now, so one of those with an air tag 26 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,700 connected to it. So if I lose it can kind of find 27 00:01:31,700 --> 00:01:34,300 it. But yes, a very very slim. 28 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,700 You know. I don't like to have the that 29 00:01:36,700 --> 00:01:39,500 the jit the big George Costanza, you know, like it's like a 30 00:01:39,500 --> 00:01:43,100 library book. You got your back pocket. 31 00:01:43,300 --> 00:01:45,700 Yeah, you keep in your back pocket, then 30 years down the 32 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:47,400 The road, it's got back problems. 33 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,400 Yeah, exactly. Sitting on it or when you sit on 34 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:50,600 it, like you're sitting at an angle. 35 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,700 Well, my beautiful significant. Other Denise got me, 100 36 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,300 identity at the center. Stickers vinyl stickers, which 37 00:01:59,300 --> 00:02:02,700 we can give out a conferences this year and to guess. 38 00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:06,400 So I guess we can say this episode was sponsored by Denise. 39 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:08,600 All right, well, thanks Denise, appreciate that. 40 00:02:08,900 --> 00:02:11,500 They look good, right? I mean it's our logo, it sticks 41 00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:13,700 onto stuff. It's a sticker needs. 42 00:02:13,700 --> 00:02:15,300 No more introduction. I think right? 43 00:02:15,300 --> 00:02:18,000 Yeah, yeah. Ellis T, dishwasher proof to at 44 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,300 that. So if you want to wear in the 45 00:02:20,300 --> 00:02:23,900 dishwasher that would be okay. Mark a shower with it. 46 00:02:23,900 --> 00:02:26,400 I guess you know whatever you do with the sticker is totally your 47 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,000 business. We don't judge we don't care 48 00:02:28,500 --> 00:02:33,400 exactly what else we got going on over the break. 49 00:02:33,500 --> 00:02:37,000 We finally joined the feta verse and created a mastodon account. 50 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,500 So now we are at idac podcast at infosec dot. 51 00:02:41,500 --> 00:02:44,000 Exchange seem to be like we're most people were sort of 52 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,500 gravitating towards from the ND space. 53 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:49,900 So now we're over there still kind of learning the ins and 54 00:02:49,900 --> 00:02:53,600 outs of it. I realized my first posts, the I 55 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,400 do like the little videos and stuff like that. 56 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,500 The dimensions were way off like they use, they use a totally 57 00:02:58,500 --> 00:03:02,600 different aspect ratio, then Twitter and like, LinkedIn and 58 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:03,900 others sigh. It was like, trying to mess 59 00:03:03,900 --> 00:03:07,900 around with the app, but yeah, you'll find us now on Macedon at 60 00:03:07,900 --> 00:03:12,000 IDC podcast at infosec data Exchange, in addition to Twitter 61 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,100 at DDC podcast, Website has our has all our info and stuff like 62 00:03:16,100 --> 00:03:17,600 that, but that was, that was something new. 63 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,000 We also started, I know you're not big into the social side gym 64 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,000 but we're on Mastodon though. Okay, I'll be right there. 65 00:03:27,100 --> 00:03:31,200 Hey, I also wanted to mention our friend friend of the show 66 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:36,400 Espen Bago reach out to me over the break and he's written a 67 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,700 Blog on the ID Pro website called words of identity. 68 00:03:39,900 --> 00:03:45,300 So it's really kind of a meant to be like a go to Index of kind 69 00:03:45,300 --> 00:03:50,000 of popular I guess for outside of our industry there Buzz terms 70 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:54,200 for inside of our industry, they're just a lingua Franca and 71 00:03:55,100 --> 00:04:00,700 the idac podcast is cited as a source for how he came up with 72 00:04:00,700 --> 00:04:03,300 some of the definitions. So it's pretty proud of that 73 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,900 will put the link to that blog in the in the show notes as 74 00:04:07,900 --> 00:04:10,900 well. Yeah, it's like a dictionary for 75 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:11,700 Stuff. Mutt. 76 00:04:11,900 --> 00:04:13,800 Who knows, right? Maybe we'll actually all agree. 77 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,300 Three, same definitions for stuff in a dining space. 78 00:04:17,399 --> 00:04:18,600 We'll see. It's called a mess. 79 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,300 I know. So, so definitely thanks to 80 00:04:20,300 --> 00:04:23,000 Aspen for that. What else we got going on this 81 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,100 year? We got a lot going on with. 82 00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:27,000 So, we've got some upcoming conferences. 83 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,100 We've got the gardener, I am Summit in March will be there. 84 00:04:32,100 --> 00:04:34,100 Are you looking forward to that I am. 85 00:04:34,100 --> 00:04:37,100 This is a big one because we're actually going to be on stage. 86 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,300 Bringing the identity at the center podcast show to a live 87 00:04:42,300 --> 00:04:43,900 studio audience. It will be something. 88 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,500 It will be very cool, very different. 89 00:04:45,500 --> 00:04:48,700 I think hopefully for from a Gartner, a perspective we're 90 00:04:48,700 --> 00:04:51,200 going to have Henry K on. I think we're going to have 91 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,400 Becky as well. Who knows what else is gonna 92 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,200 happen? But the idea is that we're going 93 00:04:55,200 --> 00:05:00,000 to actually have and the episode style present, not presentation, 94 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,700 just assigning a fireside chat because there's never a fire on 95 00:05:02,700 --> 00:05:06,200 the pill on the stage is based are just going to bring Lake 96 00:05:06,300 --> 00:05:08,300 hopefully not okay. No fires. 97 00:05:08,500 --> 00:05:11,000 Yeah the only fire will be how hot the show is, right? 98 00:05:11,900 --> 00:05:13,800 But yeah, the idea is to bring it up, you know, basically, 99 00:05:13,900 --> 00:05:16,900 Really treat one of the sessions like an episode and we'll have 100 00:05:17,100 --> 00:05:19,300 some questions and stuff that we'll be asking the analysts 101 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,600 we've been told that we can ask pretty much whatever we want so 102 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,100 we might get some tough questions. 103 00:05:25,100 --> 00:05:28,000 I think we'll probably solicit from our listening audience. 104 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,500 If there's any questions that you would love to ask a Gartner 105 00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:34,800 analyst, you don't send it to us on LinkedIn, Twitter, Mastodon, 106 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,200 whatever. Maybe we're. 107 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,200 If you want me to see if you want me to see, do don't like 108 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:41,300 then? Yeah, exactly. 109 00:05:41,300 --> 00:05:43,800 But I linked it so, yeah, it's gonna be very exciting. 110 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:45,500 That's Africa. We were kind of their 111 00:05:45,500 --> 00:05:48,800 unofficially last year and they took notice which is very cool 112 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,500 and reached out. And that's why I think one of 113 00:05:50,500 --> 00:05:53,400 the big things that we're working on over the break is to 114 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,100 get that worked out how to finalize the cell. 115 00:05:55,100 --> 00:05:58,100 Very cool to Enrique is invited us as well as the rest of the 116 00:05:58,108 --> 00:06:02,000 Gartner crew and yeah, hopefully put on a rock and show and make 117 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,200 it a thing. So that was in March. 118 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,300 I Denver's is in May. Yeah. 119 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,000 Will almost surely be there? We don't have any fixed plans at 120 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,800 the moment, but But I did notice. 121 00:06:16,500 --> 00:06:20,100 Yeah, it got the hotel booked, but that, yeah, that's that's 122 00:06:20,100 --> 00:06:22,300 step one. So we'll have more info on that 123 00:06:22,900 --> 00:06:26,800 coming out in the future. I'm sure what I did notice is 124 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,800 that the call for speakers is already open. 125 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,500 So if you got an idea for a presentation, you're interested 126 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:37,000 in, you know, presenting it at, I Denver's get out to their 127 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,300 website and submit that presentation. 128 00:06:40,300 --> 00:06:44,900 I also saw friend of the show, Vittorio Bertucci put out Post 129 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,000 on LinkedIn saying that anybody who needed help putting their 130 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:54,000 idea into the, right format for a call for speakers, he would be 131 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,100 more than happy to help. So I would take him up on that 132 00:06:57,100 --> 00:06:59,700 offer. He's a great guy and be crazy. 133 00:06:59,700 --> 00:07:02,400 Make that connection if you don't already have it plus, I 134 00:07:02,407 --> 00:07:04,900 mean, he speaks at every conference I think he knows what 135 00:07:04,907 --> 00:07:08,000 he's doing when it comes to getting his papers accepted. 136 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,600 He's a real Pro, but the Tory is good people. 137 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,300 I always enjoyed my conversations with him and, you 138 00:07:13,300 --> 00:07:15,900 know, he gives the A lot back to the community, he's got his own 139 00:07:15,900 --> 00:07:17,700 podcast. He does all these speaking 140 00:07:17,700 --> 00:07:20,000 engagements. He's very active on social and 141 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,000 Ida Pro stuff like that. So shout out to Vittorio. 142 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,100 He's one of the MVPs definitely for the identity space. 143 00:07:26,100 --> 00:07:29,100 Yeah, absolutely. And then the, the last one that 144 00:07:29,100 --> 00:07:32,500 I wanted to mention was the European identity and Cloud 145 00:07:32,500 --> 00:07:38,600 conference in May and we have a great guest on for that today in 146 00:07:38,700 --> 00:07:42,800 Martin cooping her. But certainly, if you're in 147 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,900 Europe or you can get Approval to travel to Europe who wouldn't 148 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:50,400 like to do that. Certainly, that's one of the top 149 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,600 conferences available as well. And I think we're to get into 150 00:07:54,600 --> 00:08:00,100 that with Martin, so we'll talk to him in a moment about see, I 151 00:08:00,100 --> 00:08:02,600 see, yeah, it's a great segue, why don't we go ahead and 152 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,600 introduce Martin Cooper anger. He's the founder and principal 153 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,500 Analyst at coopering ercole analysts. 154 00:08:07,500 --> 00:08:11,200 Welcome back to the show. Martin welcome, try from trim. 155 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,100 Pleasure to be back. Yeah. 156 00:08:13,100 --> 00:08:15,900 So it's been a while. I'll look see, this is episode. 157 00:08:15,900 --> 00:08:20,300 I think will be 194 you were with us back on episode 106, 158 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,900 which would have been August in 2020 once about a year and a 159 00:08:22,900 --> 00:08:25,500 half or so. I'm not going to ask you to go 160 00:08:25,500 --> 00:08:27,000 through sort of like your origin story. 161 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,500 Like we always do with our first time guests because this is now 162 00:08:29,500 --> 00:08:33,400 your second time with us, but what has been happening in your 163 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:37,900 world since that you know, that that last year or so what's been 164 00:08:37,900 --> 00:08:40,500 going on in the world of cooking or coal and Martin Cooper near 165 00:08:40,500 --> 00:08:45,900 specifically? Yeah so we Growing, I'll touch 166 00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:48,900 ya. See in a minute, I am able to 167 00:08:48,900 --> 00:08:52,400 concentrate more on my research account, which is refund, got 168 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:53,900 rid of some of the management tasks. 169 00:08:54,500 --> 00:08:56,600 And that is really, really great things. 170 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,400 I really can focus on what is most time to me, which means 171 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,900 doing things like podcasts, writing, research, and thinking 172 00:09:04,900 --> 00:09:09,500 about identity management and working on some, some ideas, 173 00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:14,400 some aspects, how we will publish a lot of tough around 174 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,400 that. And with all the evil you've 175 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,100 been going on, the identity is based, there is, there's a ton 176 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,700 of stuff to think about it, as well as cybersecurity. 177 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,500 I also trust, finishing a piece on data quality data 178 00:09:26,500 --> 00:09:30,600 integration, which seems to be a bit away from Identity. 179 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,400 But at the end, it isn't because at the end we have identity 180 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,400 management. We have access governance is 181 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,300 part of it and access governance is also very close to data 182 00:09:40,300 --> 00:09:42,500 governance of the things I'm doing in the data space where we 183 00:09:42,500 --> 00:09:45,000 are doing it today, space. Have a lot to do with data 184 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,600 governance like catalogs. If you don't know where the data 185 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,300 is, you can't govern it. You can't protect that, you can 186 00:09:50,300 --> 00:09:53,200 secure it. So reaching out of branching out 187 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:57,200 a bit but still always around our our core topic. 188 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,100 So this is what we are doing basically and I trust, spend a 189 00:10:01,100 --> 00:10:05,600 week skiing in Switzerland, had snow in contrast to I think many 190 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,200 of the errors ski resorts in Switzerland, so the weather 191 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,100 conditions weren't wearing that girl snow conditions weren't 192 00:10:12,100 --> 00:10:16,300 that good and Ours. Still not good in the Alps, but 193 00:10:16,300 --> 00:10:18,700 we were lucky and could ski all days. 194 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,300 So it was a lot of fun and few people because most didn't come 195 00:10:23,900 --> 00:10:27,100 for skiing. It's got to be nice to have a, I 196 00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:29,000 mean, first of all, to get out there and go skiing but when 197 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,700 it's not crowded, right? And he get sort of like the out 198 00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:35,200 on the mountain or the past sort of to yourself maybe a little 199 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,500 more than maybe you're used to. That sounds pretty cool. 200 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:42,200 You know, you guys put out so many good pieces of research 201 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,800 articles That the different reviews that you guys do and 202 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,400 Analysis of the space. I guess I'm not going to try and 203 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,100 even articulate, what Google does. 204 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,500 But for those who I guess, maybe are living a rock. 205 00:10:56,500 --> 00:10:58,800 I can't imagine people who are listening to the podcast, maybe 206 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,500 aren't aware but for those who aren't, I guess, what is like if 207 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,500 you had to describe Coomer cool analyst to somebody who is not 208 00:11:05,500 --> 00:11:07,300 familiar with the work. How would you describe that to 209 00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:10,700 somebody? So I think what makes us a bit 210 00:11:10,700 --> 00:11:13,700 unique are two things. The one is, we are one of the 211 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:19,600 very few European analyst companies, which means we look, 212 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,700 we've all globally, we take a club or perspective, but we 213 00:11:22,700 --> 00:11:26,300 surely have a bit more inside, maybe sometimes than into your 214 00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:29,000 office and then other regions. Yeah. 215 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,100 Uh, turkey at our point is we are, we are a boutique and 216 00:11:32,100 --> 00:11:34,500 listen to sense of it. We're still very focused. 217 00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:38,400 So our topics, our identity, and cybersecurity and some parts of 218 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,500 the data's in AI space. As long as they relate in the 219 00:11:41,500 --> 00:11:45,000 one other way, was identity. For cybersecurity. 220 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,700 So this makes us I think a bit but unique with this focus on of 221 00:11:49,700 --> 00:11:54,800 covering everything but being really targeted at these areas 222 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,300 and doing this for close to two decades right now. 223 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,500 Yeah so that's that's what we do at the end. 224 00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:09,700 Is there a favorite piece of I don't know research or type of 225 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,100 output that you put out there because I know there's a lot 226 00:12:12,100 --> 00:12:15,100 that you do, I think of things like, you know, Better analysis 227 00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:17,500 or, you know, future kind of think pieces. 228 00:12:17,500 --> 00:12:19,800 But is there a spot that you really like to be in? 229 00:12:20,700 --> 00:12:24,600 So if any of us a lot of very much like the leadership combust 230 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,800 format, which is our way to look at market, segments to compare 231 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,400 the vendors, and their offerings to rate them. 232 00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:36,500 So this is, I think surely one of the most valuable for maxim. 233 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,000 I frequently hear that this that people like to sort of the 234 00:12:40,700 --> 00:12:44,700 density and the amount of information sources These are 50 235 00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:48,300 70 or sometimes even longer more pages. 236 00:12:48,300 --> 00:12:51,700 Documents are really, really large documents with a lot of 237 00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:56,700 detail, but I think it was a very, very valuable is to listen 238 00:12:56,700 --> 00:13:00,700 to the audio podcast of Matthias, my colleague, who runs 239 00:13:00,700 --> 00:13:07,500 our own equipment, call Alice podcast, where he talks was an 240 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,100 analyst so it's more could be a cold. 241 00:13:10,100 --> 00:13:13,600 People talking was Kubiak old people, but I think still still 242 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:18,000 in Interesting. These are some of the pieces of 243 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:19,800 writing. There's a lot of the block and 244 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,800 we use section as well. What are you? 245 00:13:24,100 --> 00:13:27,800 Yeah, let me let me add to that. That I want to give a shout out 246 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:32,400 to Matias and his podcast. I think it's one of the best 247 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,000 offerings out there right after identity. 248 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,400 Its Center, of course, but now he does a fantastic job. 249 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,800 I've heard you on the podcast several times, and it made me 250 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,000 also think about the comment you made of Unloading some of the 251 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,800 management tasks so that you can focus more on being like the 252 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,500 chief analyst, if you will, which I think is fantastic. 253 00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:58,700 Because I think are the things that the identity space, Maybe 254 00:13:59,100 --> 00:14:02,200 maybe all areas of it but it's like, you build all this 255 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:08,500 expertise in this in this area of subject matter I didn't 256 00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:12,300 access management and then the career path becomes that you do 257 00:14:12,300 --> 00:14:14,600 more management tasks and then you get further and further away 258 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,300 from things but it seems to be everybody who does that. 259 00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:22,300 It just has a yearning to get back in there and like and live 260 00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:25,400 that stuff. I was wondering what your 261 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:30,400 thoughts were on that comment but Also, you know, specific to 262 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,100 hey, you've got all these analysts, who write the, the 263 00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:40,100 white papers, and the the briefings, what is your, what is 264 00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:43,400 the role that you take, in terms of of those writings? 265 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:48,400 Do you edit them to are you like Hands-On and creating them or 266 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,700 how does that work? So I have right? 267 00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:54,900 Some of the stuff myself and I like doing that. 268 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:02,100 I also take a roll so we call it a bit mentorship for for the 269 00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:05,500 younger analysts. So, to regularly meet with them 270 00:15:05,900 --> 00:15:09,900 and talk about what is on their desk and how to do it best and 271 00:15:09,900 --> 00:15:15,400 giving them sort of sort of transferring my experience and I 272 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,600 think editing and stuff like that, as this distributed across 273 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,600 a lot of shoulders. But about it's also part of me 274 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,200 specifically, for younger analysts. 275 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:28,600 I'm known for providing a A lot of detailed feedback at the 276 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,600 beginning, but not in the sense of this is wrong. 277 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,200 But in a sense of I would do it that way because of, and I think 278 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:40,700 this is very important this explanation of why I would do 279 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,400 that way or that way, or some discussion and accepting that 280 00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:45,900 some say, okay, maybe that's there are better ways because 281 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,000 there are better ways. And so this is, this is part of 282 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,300 my role here. So, talking with a lot of 283 00:15:51,300 --> 00:15:55,500 people, but also writing some stuff, supporting my team. 284 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,300 And yeah that feels my day. Yeah yeah. 285 00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:05,300 So I mean you guys are known for the leadership Compass. 286 00:16:05,300 --> 00:16:10,200 You're known for the EIC but I'm not sure how many people know 287 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,800 about some of the other webinars that you do that are wouldn't 288 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,600 call them ad hoc but I mean you always have a list of like hey 289 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,400 here's upcoming webinars that are free. 290 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,600 So I'm kind of coming from the The Bargain Hunter Cheapskate 291 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,600 angle of like hey there's a bunch of free. 292 00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:27,300 Content that you guys put out there. 293 00:16:27,700 --> 00:16:31,100 We want to make sure that our listeners know about that. 294 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:35,800 What's the best way for them to go out there and find those you 295 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:40,300 know, these free webinars. Yeah, so first just go to our 296 00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:45,300 website at www.breckwell.com. There's the webinar section, 297 00:16:45,300 --> 00:16:47,600 there's in the event section where you find a lot of things 298 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,800 and then it doesn't sound like bargain-hunting, but I think 299 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,600 it's still still the best one of the best ways to do it. 300 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,000 If you go to the upper, Or right Edge, there's become a client. 301 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,900 But there's also the basic option, which is you can 302 00:17:00,900 --> 00:17:05,000 register, for instance, 41 months, for certain level of 303 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,700 free access and stuff like that. And that allows you to get get a 304 00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:10,800 lot of information. And you also will end up, and I 305 00:17:10,808 --> 00:17:13,599 think this is always every one of us has mixed feelings about 306 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,300 the mailings you receive. But register for these mailings 307 00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:19,099 because you'll get the information about upcoming 308 00:17:19,099 --> 00:17:24,700 events upcoming webinars to try for free, maybe maybe go to one 309 00:17:24,700 --> 00:17:28,200 of the platforms. To subscribe to Matias podcast 310 00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:30,200 stuff like that. So there's really a lot of 311 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:35,800 information which is freely available and just click on the 312 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,600 upper right Edge and check the website there's various ways to 313 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,100 find quite quite a good number of free content. 314 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,600 Okay great. So what did you jump into a 315 00:17:46,608 --> 00:17:50,200 couple topics today? If we could spend a few minutes 316 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,800 on each one, that would be fantastic. 317 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,500 The first one is, yeah, I follow you on. 318 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,400 On LinkedIn. And for some reason, LinkedIn, 319 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,500 prioritize your posts, because I like them a lot. 320 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:08,000 And recently, you appeared in interview talking about cyber 321 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,900 security, awareness, training, and I thought you had a really 322 00:18:10,900 --> 00:18:13,500 interesting take maybe it's Unique. 323 00:18:13,500 --> 00:18:15,000 Take, can you tell us about that? 324 00:18:15,700 --> 00:18:20,500 Yeah, you know, I think that thing started with me receiving 325 00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:26,400 one of these mailings from from a German magazine and I lost his 326 00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:29,800 the humanist, the weakest link and security headline. 327 00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:34,100 And I wrote back to the Editor in Chief has that, you know, 328 00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:40,000 Peter is his name. I have fully disagree with this 329 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,900 statement because this is really discouraging. 330 00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:46,800 So if you tell people you're, you're making the mistakes, 331 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,200 you're the weakest links, that weakest link. 332 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,400 This isn't that motivating at all? 333 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:58,100 And it's not fair because you know we always say okay. 334 00:18:58,100 --> 00:19:03,000 Oh what why did you fall trap to this phishing attack and gave 335 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,000 your password away? The right question to ask would 336 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,300 be why was there still a password? 337 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:16,400 If there's no password used and no password to give away, the 338 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,000 human can't make the mistake. And so, to some certain extent 339 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:26,000 it's blaming all the people in our organizations for things. 340 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,700 They are not really guilty for or at least what they did. 341 00:19:31,100 --> 00:19:35,500 Follow crap to a phishing attack isn't the root cause because the 342 00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:39,300 root causes, oh, we're not yet passed for Less, we are not yet. 343 00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:43,300 Strong MFA everywhere. Six like that or we don't have a 344 00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:48,200 good email filter, email security solution. 345 00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:51,400 So that there are way too many stay always will be some. 346 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,500 There are way too many malicious links still ending up in the 347 00:19:56,500 --> 00:19:58,900 inbox of the people. Yeah. 348 00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:00,600 No, I think that's really interesting. 349 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:07,400 Take, you know, I I feel like at least I've become, you know, 350 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:13,500 really good at sniffing out fishing attacks by email. 351 00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:19,200 And so I wonder is that partially due to the fact that, 352 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,600 you know, the companies I've worked for I've done a really 353 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:28,300 good job of you know, making me aware like every time they send 354 00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:35,500 these like phishing emails, or things like that, I'm incentive 355 00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:39,700 incentivize or disincentivize to click through to them in other 356 00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:43,600 words, if I get caught clicking on one, I get this email. 357 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:48,500 Like, hey dummy, you clicked on a phishing email, or do you 358 00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:52,500 think it's just that everybody in society is now getting better 359 00:20:52,500 --> 00:20:54,900 at spotting these these fake emails? 360 00:20:56,700 --> 00:21:00,400 You know, I think how does technology so you know when I 361 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,500 look at my inbox them frequently it's a Oh you really receive 362 00:21:05,500 --> 00:21:10,200 emails from let's say chairman Jeff or whoever. 363 00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:14,800 And and then this helped me alerting it and I think then 364 00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:20,100 people also are sometimes probably a bit more scared and 365 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,800 more educated. So if you've my mother sometimes 366 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,400 as that, there's a strange email in my inbox. 367 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,700 What should I do? Because she she probably 368 00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:33,200 wouldn't wouldn't know what a team. 369 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,800 The term fishing means, but she knows that there's, they could 370 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:42,300 be something wrong and I think that this is, It's a, I think 371 00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:45,200 it's especially in business. It's a mix of measures. 372 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,100 We need training awareness training. 373 00:21:48,100 --> 00:21:53,300 Yes, we need this, these approaches, where you get mail 374 00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:56,200 sent, and then become informed, okay? 375 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,700 You've clicked one, you should have click but he also needed 376 00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:04,000 technology to, to reduce the amount of stuff that dance in it 377 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,100 in our inbox or that that where we can do things wrong. 378 00:22:07,300 --> 00:22:13,200 So it's a mix of the rioting. But back to the interviewer 379 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:19,000 discussion I had in that a while ago, the point is really, I 380 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,100 think we should encourage people to understand that they are part 381 00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:25,900 of our defense. Humans are the first line of 382 00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:30,300 defense or power of the first line of defense and and do it. 383 00:22:30,300 --> 00:22:34,800 More motivating them. Yeah, they call him the we think 384 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,200 it went great. Yeah. 385 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,600 Yeah, definitely following you on that one. 386 00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:42,700 Okay. Second topic, one of the things 387 00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:47,300 that we chatted about prior to, you know, getting on, was that 388 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,700 what is it? That could shake up the IGA. 389 00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:53,100 So I think a lot of our listeners, they're the identity 390 00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:57,100 practitioners of the world. While them either are focused on 391 00:22:57,500 --> 00:23:01,700 deploying, IGA running IGA or at least that's somewhere in their 392 00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:03,300 job. Responsibility. 393 00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:07,500 And the IGA space has been pretty static. 394 00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:10,800 I feel like for the last few years but I think that is due 395 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,400 for a shake-up. So I'm wondering is it is a 396 00:23:13,408 --> 00:23:15,700 convergence that will shake up, IGA? 397 00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:20,400 Or is this something else? It does the space if you need to 398 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,300 be shaken up. How much time did you say we 399 00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:25,600 have for this pain? I've heard of ours. 400 00:23:27,100 --> 00:23:30,400 Okay, there's there's there's a lot of stuff to talk about and 401 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,200 maybe doesn't that is the part where I It could quickly him on 402 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:38,200 the ICA, May 9th to 12th Berlin. Greatly is very Central to the 403 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,200 town. So people have to be moved their 404 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,000 last year to Berlin and the venue is really a great one. 405 00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:49,200 So don't miss it be there. It's it would be really fun and 406 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,200 we'll talk about a lot of things where we feel identity 407 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,000 management must change or is about to change nothing in some 408 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,000 areas. We already see the. 409 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,200 So we see this Cloud infrastructure, entitlement 410 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,700 management. Or we call it during Dynamic 411 00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:06,900 resources, Island, access management stuff really 412 00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:10,800 impacting the traditional Pam, the British access management 413 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,000 Market, we see the delivery from the cloud. 414 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,800 We have this concept of identity Fabrics. 415 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,800 I think we started talking about is three four, five years ago 416 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,500 already and wrote quite a lot of stuff and we see this picked up 417 00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:28,500 being picked up more and more as a umbrella as a holistic 418 00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:32,000 perspective on. It does this mean that we need 419 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,500 Sort of technically, conversions of all Solutions in 21 other. 420 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,800 And with the others, I'm a bit reluctant, because we have seen 421 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,200 so many big monolithic Tools in many areas of it's--, which 422 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:49,000 didn't really succeed over time and I'll sing in an age of micro 423 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,700 services and container-based. Deployments and modern 424 00:24:51,700 --> 00:24:55,600 architectures, we and apis. We can do it at different and 425 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,000 better. So, having something where we 426 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,800 can put together various elements into a the common 427 00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:08,000 framework with a consistent UI with consistent sets of apis 428 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,500 etcetera. One of the big things I believe 429 00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:13,300 is, which is coming back. By the way, is policy-based 430 00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:16,600 access controls. So, when you look at the success 431 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,900 of opa, open policy. Hm. 432 00:25:18,900 --> 00:25:22,500 Then this is a clear indicator for that. 433 00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:25,300 And so I think we will see changes. 434 00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:28,500 We need changes. Also look at IGA, I think 435 00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:32,000 everyone struggles with Roland Rose and recertification, so, 436 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,400 Need to change something, no doubt about it, but all of that 437 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,500 would be probably topics for separate sessions. 438 00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:44,700 Happy to be back here and go into Deep dive on some of these. 439 00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:47,700 Well it's an open door obviously whenever you want to come back 440 00:25:47,700 --> 00:25:50,400 with us, you know. And it struck me when you 441 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,500 mention, apis and moving more to an API based approach or 442 00:25:54,508 --> 00:25:56,700 microserver, microservices based approach. 443 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,100 I still feel like, you know, as I talk with, you know, our 444 00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:03,600 clients in the real world, what work Stuff is they struggle just 445 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,300 getting this stuff deployed and this is one of my predictions 446 00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:09,600 that I have last year at the end of 2020 to was. 447 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,700 I think, like a lot of organizations are gonna take a 448 00:26:11,708 --> 00:26:15,900 step back to try to get back to basics a little bit when it 449 00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:18,700 comes to Identity. And IGA is one of those basic 450 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:23,200 foundational technologies that if you do it, right, it's 451 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,300 awesome, right? It helps so many different 452 00:26:25,300 --> 00:26:28,800 things but it's very difficult to get deployed and to get the 453 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,600 pulley, right? And think, one of the things 454 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,100 that I'll point a finger At the vendors in this space is they 455 00:26:34,100 --> 00:26:39,700 distract quite a bit with bells and whistles that are great to 456 00:26:39,700 --> 00:26:44,400 have but are more like a year three year five of the 457 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,900 deployment and it hasn't been enough Focus. 458 00:26:46,900 --> 00:26:48,700 Paid on getting the basics right? 459 00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:51,000 Humble yeah off-boarding things like that. 460 00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:56,400 Yeah I think that's part of it and I think we the toys also 461 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,300 when you start doing IGA right today then you need to do it 462 00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:02,600 right for the next decade. Or so. 463 00:27:03,100 --> 00:27:06,400 So I think it's done. So thinking about how Masters 464 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,700 look for the next 10 years. Known how not, how how did it 465 00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:11,800 look for the past 10 years and everything? 466 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,400 You brought it up to the bells and whistles and they dared a 467 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,000 lot of things which are saying, okay, I help you dealing better 468 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,000 with rolls. I help you doing recertification 469 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,800 more efficiently but I think it's time that we step back and 470 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:33,600 say how can we sort of Cure the root call, the cause not the 471 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,400 symptoms and illnesses really dealing with symptoms. 472 00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:44,100 As I've said a huge topic here which probably could keep our 473 00:27:44,300 --> 00:27:48,300 hours discussing and maybe we split this into some parts and 474 00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:49,800 do it over the next couple of months. 475 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,800 Well, we definitely be open to that. 476 00:27:53,500 --> 00:27:56,200 Let me move us on to the next question. 477 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,500 This area or the last one in the section which is really around 478 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,100 the cybersecurity Leadership Summit. 479 00:28:03,100 --> 00:28:05,600 So that's the other event that you guys do in addition to you. 480 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:10,200 I see that maybe you can talk about for a second but many what 481 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:15,300 I noticed is that many of your speakers are cisos and my 482 00:28:15,300 --> 00:28:19,500 thinking is that many, I am practitioners folks like myself 483 00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:24,200 and Jeff. Aspired to be cisos is that I am 484 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,500 a good path for becoming a see. So, and what advice would you 485 00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:31,300 give to? And I am practitioner that wants 486 00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:33,600 to become a see. So, yeah. 487 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,700 So I think the thing first you should ask yourself, do I want 488 00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:41,100 to become a sea? So it's a pretty hot chair, 489 00:28:41,100 --> 00:28:43,700 isn't it? And you look at like look at it. 490 00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:51,200 So that is truly one power of it and the other But I think this 491 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:56,400 is more promising. Where do you feel most 492 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,300 comfortable? Sorry, do you feel being a 493 00:28:58,300 --> 00:29:00,800 manager? As I see. 494 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,600 So it means you do a lot of management stuff. 495 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:07,700 You you do a lot of things more about managing everything by 496 00:29:07,700 --> 00:29:12,600 risk, a lot of reporting. So I think that's that's what 497 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,300 you need to be clear about it. So what do you want to achieve? 498 00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:19,900 But if you want to become a seesaw, do identity, surely is a 499 00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:22,900 good. Starting point, s, it can be 500 00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:26,200 cyber security experience. I think the advantage of, of 501 00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:29,800 identity, as a starting point is that you have a lot of stuff, 502 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,600 which is around governance, which is along around risk, 503 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:39,900 which is around working with the business, probably more than 504 00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:44,300 when you're in some of the sort of the core areas of 505 00:29:44,300 --> 00:29:48,200 cybersecurity, whatever, configuring fire, firewall 506 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,700 rules, or so. And you're further away, Away 507 00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:54,600 from some of these core skills of a seasonal talking 508 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:59,200 communicating with the business governance risk aspect, is that 509 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,900 era? So identity surely can be a good 510 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:08,300 good starting point when you say okay see so is my career Target. 511 00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:13,100 You know, you got to be cool pretty well-rounded and security 512 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,800 to be a Cecil, right? Can't just be focused on one 513 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,400 area. I think you bring up a lot of 514 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,800 interesting points about you know if you're looking to go 515 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,400 down that path, having those relationships with the business 516 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,600 is a huge part of being in sort of that, you know, leadership 517 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,400 management capacity is developing those relationships, 518 00:30:31,700 --> 00:30:34,100 you know, learning how to work with people, you know, across 519 00:30:34,100 --> 00:30:35,400 the aisle. So to speak, right? 520 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,200 Or another business units, whatever it may be, I think the 521 00:30:39,300 --> 00:30:41,300 The thing that sometimes can be a challenge as you have to know 522 00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:45,500 which battles to fight. If everything is on fire, then 523 00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:47,100 nothing's on fire. So you have to be able to 524 00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:51,400 prioritize and say, okay this is when we can solve things because 525 00:30:51,900 --> 00:30:55,700 most cisos do not have an unlimited, you know, budget of 526 00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:59,500 money resources time. They've got to pick and choose 527 00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:03,800 where where is the risk now? And do I need, do I need to 528 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,800 mitigate and work on now versus something that I can punch him 529 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,400 later? Which is, by the way, a lot of 530 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,800 the things I A lot of barbiturates optimizing your 531 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,500 tools portfolio, because the problem when you take facility, 532 00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:20,300 broader cyber security perspective, is that there are a 533 00:31:20,308 --> 00:31:23,600 lot of tools that a lot of these tools came in, because something 534 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,400 went wrong or something, went wrong in a company. 535 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:32,400 And there was an urge to acquire a solution to your throat, too 536 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,000 long at the problem, and hope that it helps, which means that 537 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,200 there are a lot of tools not very well integrated. 538 00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:43,700 And I recommend to everyone step back and do really, a sort of an 539 00:31:43,700 --> 00:31:47,000 assessment of your cyber 622 security, tools, portfolio, 540 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,700 which should include identity management. 541 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,000 And you can also do it for identity management. 542 00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:54,000 What do you really need? Who should own it, what 543 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,300 contributes to the risk mitigation best at which price 544 00:31:57,300 --> 00:31:59,200 at which total cost of ownership? 545 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,800 The problem in cybersecurity, surely is retiring, cyber 546 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,100 security, tools is a risk because if exactly in that area, 547 00:32:08,100 --> 00:32:10,500 something goes wrong. Then you're in trouble. 548 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,400 On the other hand you frequently have overlapping capabilities 549 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,800 and reducing complexity definitely helps also in doing 550 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,200 more with your always tight budgets. 551 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,900 And so, I think this exercise is always worse time and money 552 00:32:26,900 --> 00:32:29,300 spent is a really good points and I know where I'm going but 553 00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:30,100 of time. So I want to get. 554 00:32:30,100 --> 00:32:32,000 So maybe a little bit of a lightning round here. 555 00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:36,200 Take advantage of a big brain and talk through maybe some of 556 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,900 these Buzz words that I keep hearing in the identities. 557 00:32:38,900 --> 00:32:41,200 Based, I'm sure we're all starting to grow tired of it. 558 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:46,100 So the idea here is we're going to throw out a term and then 559 00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:48,700 Martin and like 30 seconds to a minute. 560 00:32:48,700 --> 00:32:51,100 Give us your thoughts on it and we're going to start with, with 561 00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:54,100 the elephant in the room decentralized identity. 562 00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:59,500 What are your thoughts on it? One of the most promising 563 00:32:59,700 --> 00:33:03,600 technology areas that last year with you, I see, we started the 564 00:33:03,608 --> 00:33:07,000 first time where you talking about, how can you improve your 565 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,100 identity broses as your existing Legacy? 566 00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:10,700 I am. But integrating with these 567 00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:14,900 varieties identity and I think there's a huge huge potential to 568 00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:18,500 look out by saying I have something and identity. 569 00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:21,300 I can use that for making decisions for improving my 570 00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:23,900 onboarding process, think about work for Mary anywhere. 571 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,300 So there's a really huge potential in that Don't just 572 00:33:27,300 --> 00:33:29,400 look at it as blockchain ID and something. 573 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:34,500 Esoteric it's there and you can use it to make it to really, 574 00:33:35,300 --> 00:33:40,600 massively improve your I am. As of right now, January 20 23. 575 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,700 Is it a technology in search of a problem? 576 00:33:45,100 --> 00:33:48,300 Whereas there are applicable use cases that people should be 577 00:33:48,300 --> 00:33:52,200 jumping on just to start leveraging that decentralized 578 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,100 concept. I think onboarding of business 579 00:33:55,100 --> 00:33:59,200 partners and to a certain extent, even I'm pleased, it's a 580 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,800 great area, a side of the typical consumer authentication, 581 00:34:04,100 --> 00:34:08,800 use cases, but I think this is one of the the areas, which is 582 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,900 great A bit on the longer term because it needs a lot of 583 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,900 innovation in all. We do around identity 584 00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:17,199 management. That would be if you have a lot 585 00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:22,900 of proofs, think about it and using it for policy-based 586 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,800 authorizations. But that's probably the second 587 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,400 or third. Step one boarding improving 588 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,600 processes. That area could be to lower 589 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,900 hanging fruit. Okay. 590 00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:37,300 How about see IEM? Cloud infrastructure and title 591 00:34:37,300 --> 00:34:39,400 it management. I feel like this is a area that 592 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,800 got pretty hot sort of like the beginning of 2022. 593 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,500 Maybe unto 2021. Where is it stands right now? 594 00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:48,199 What are your thoughts on that space? 595 00:34:48,699 --> 00:34:55,000 Yeah so I think the there's a huge challenge which will render 596 00:34:55,000 --> 00:35:00,600 started to create solutions to address the switches we have. 597 00:35:03,300 --> 00:35:08,700 devops we have sore at trial development of applications, we 598 00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:14,400 run that also in a natural manner in some Environment, 599 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,800 which frequently is a public lot but not necessarily necessarily 600 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,100 it could be also whatever they could kubernetes environment in 601 00:35:21,100 --> 00:35:26,100 our own Data Center and all this is not static anymore. 602 00:35:26,100 --> 00:35:29,600 So historically, we sought about oh we have humans that are 603 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,500 managing servers right now. We don't have the service 604 00:35:33,500 --> 00:35:35,200 anymore. We have workloads, they go up 605 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,900 and down permanently, change permanent changes, and we have a 606 00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:43,000 lot of services that are managing that. 607 00:35:43,300 --> 00:35:45,800 Which makes the problem more complex, more Dynamic, and we 608 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,400 need solutions for death. I think we should not restrict 609 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,600 it to Claude because it's every runtime environment that we need 610 00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:01,800 to cover and it's modern infrastructure, it's sort of the 611 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,800 entire workloads across the stack. 612 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,000 So we need to think this even bigger, but not looking at it. 613 00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:11,700 Surely is a huge risk because that's where I've seen some 614 00:36:11,700 --> 00:36:14,900 interesting samples. That's where a lot of 615 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:20,100 organizations have massive, massive over entitle management, 616 00:36:20,100 --> 00:36:23,900 management over excessive over entitlement. 617 00:36:25,500 --> 00:36:29,400 So nothing about least privilege there and we need to address it 618 00:36:30,500 --> 00:36:33,000 and you guys started to work through this process, a dream, 619 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,500 which you mentioned earlier, Dynamic, resource and title and 620 00:36:36,500 --> 00:36:38,600 an entitlement, and access management had to get it right. 621 00:36:38,700 --> 00:36:40,500 Thanks. We had a conversation with Paul 622 00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:44,200 Fisher back in. I want to say March of 20:22, I 623 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,700 think is episode 1 36 which would be a good one to check out 624 00:36:47,700 --> 00:36:49,400 for kind of people to get some more opinions on that. 625 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,300 Jim, I know that key Morecambe or whatever we're pronouncing 626 00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:54,800 it, this week is near and dear to your heart. 627 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,500 What are your thoughts? Well I I think it's important of 628 00:36:58,500 --> 00:37:01,700 important approach but I think it's just one piece of the 629 00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:05,500 puzzle I think. Managing Cloud infrastructure, 630 00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:12,000 security holistically, detective controls proactive, controls 631 00:37:12,500 --> 00:37:16,000 machine. Accounts human accounts, it's a 632 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:20,700 big picture and I think Keem covers one portion of that. 633 00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:26,100 And I find that what Enterprises are looking for is like that, 634 00:37:26,100 --> 00:37:28,600 that one solution that covers it all. 635 00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:36,500 And so overlaps with all the the software development life cycle 636 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,200 because actually, I think there are a lot of these changes come 637 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,800 in. So and also there we need a lot 638 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,700 of more. Solution. 639 00:37:43,700 --> 00:37:46,900 So so we have a lot of pieces and bits and pieces for 640 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,500 protecting that or that or that part of the software 641 00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:52,000 development. I'll apply cycle but we need to 642 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,500 bring these things together and that will be probably something 643 00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:58,500 which keeps the vendors and the organization's busy for the next 644 00:37:58,500 --> 00:38:01,200 year's. Yeah, exactly. 645 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,700 I posted on Twitter the other day and in memoriam image, about 646 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,400 the password password will die and it was you know 2012-2013 647 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,300 everything was struck out. What Your thoughts, you know, up 648 00:38:14,300 --> 00:38:16,300 to this year like I feel like we've been saying for a decade 649 00:38:16,300 --> 00:38:18,900 now that passwords are going to die. 650 00:38:18,900 --> 00:38:20,500 This is the year is going to happen. 651 00:38:20,900 --> 00:38:23,000 What are your thoughts on password authentication in the 652 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,700 year? 2023 is this is this the year 653 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,900 again but at that we start to see things move you know, I'm a 654 00:38:29,900 --> 00:38:34,500 bit of Sonic I'm so so probably I would be more on the side of 655 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,300 it takes its time and what we see is, definitely a lot of 656 00:38:39,300 --> 00:38:41,200 adopt O'er. Adoption Enterprises. 657 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,700 With different types, of password lessons, indication 658 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,900 that, that is a positive thing. But when you look at the reality 659 00:38:50,900 --> 00:38:56,100 of when you're just using some services in the web, then in 660 00:38:56,100 --> 00:39:01,100 most cases it's still username password only. 661 00:39:01,700 --> 00:39:05,500 And so we have still a long way to go to the to go past follow 662 00:39:05,500 --> 00:39:06,300 us. Everywhere. 663 00:39:07,700 --> 00:39:12,200 In the Enterprises we see see a definitely not take A lot of 664 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:17,100 Technology available that everything is that path will 665 00:39:17,107 --> 00:39:22,500 last as if this claimed to be, but I think we're on the right 666 00:39:22,900 --> 00:39:26,100 way here. So, we're trending up in the 667 00:39:26,100 --> 00:39:28,500 right direction at least, but I miss you, I think it does take a 668 00:39:28,508 --> 00:39:30,500 while. Especially we start thinking 669 00:39:30,500 --> 00:39:32,700 about, you know, this is a pretty seismic change. 670 00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:36,200 I think it's the user experience its Investments that the 671 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,400 Enterprise level. And these generally take a few 672 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,200 budget Cycles to kind of work through. 673 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,500 I think we're starting I'm down that path but I think it'll be 674 00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:46,900 five ten years by the time we see it become really prevalent 675 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,700 and if there's an interesting discussion about potentially 676 00:39:51,700 --> 00:39:55,600 decoupling the authentication from from everything which is 677 00:39:55,600 --> 00:40:01,000 sort of behind so that you sort of can use the same time so that 678 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,500 users are can use the way they want to. 679 00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:05,800 Also indicate which changes every now and then because they 680 00:40:05,808 --> 00:40:10,500 might change the devices you technology coming while the 681 00:40:10,500 --> 00:40:13,900 backend systems are Have been segregated from that. 682 00:40:13,900 --> 00:40:17,900 So sort of having a an authentication layer around 683 00:40:17,900 --> 00:40:22,900 which is more consistent and which remain stable? 684 00:40:22,900 --> 00:40:25,400 Even we feel whatever change from with the one access 685 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,900 management to the other access management product. 686 00:40:27,900 --> 00:40:30,100 I think this is, this is an interesting way of thinking and 687 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,900 basically I think we need to continue what what a lot of 688 00:40:34,900 --> 00:40:37,300 people are stuck. Have started to to talk about 689 00:40:37,300 --> 00:40:40,400 and think about the various types of so to speak control 690 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,400 planes around identity. You to sort this out. 691 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,400 I think this this way of thinking is very helpful. 692 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,500 I have to admit. I'm not fully done with my own 693 00:40:51,500 --> 00:40:53,400 thinking on that but I'm working on it. 694 00:40:54,100 --> 00:40:56,100 What's the thing raise? You can always change opinions 695 00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:57,700 and get smarter over time, right? 696 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,200 Yeah. Maybe we should ask the question 697 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:01,600 instead of. Is this the year that the 698 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,400 password eyes and ask is this? The decade that the password 699 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,000 guys who were at the final conference, right? 700 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,800 And you're starting to hear some very exciting. 701 00:41:11,900 --> 00:41:16,600 He's from big companies, but even they're taking on some 702 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,700 portion of their total passwords. 703 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,900 And would you hear about, you know, Citibank knocking out 704 00:41:23,900 --> 00:41:27,400 passwords for, you know, hundreds of millions of 705 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,100 customers? That's exciting. 706 00:41:29,500 --> 00:41:34,000 But I also think you look at the KC leadership report on password 707 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,300 list for it and by Alejandro, right? 708 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,400 And there's like, 23 vendors, it remind you of like the early 709 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,800 west of almost every The tower within identity access 710 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,000 management starts with a lot of vendors that it shrinks down to 711 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,700 a smaller number of vendors. Then those vendors start losing 712 00:41:53,700 --> 00:41:56,500 direction or stop keeping up with the product then all these 713 00:41:56,500 --> 00:42:01,700 newcomers Rush In And then they push the L to either adapt or 714 00:42:01,700 --> 00:42:04,400 die. And so I think we're still at 715 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,900 that kind of wild-west Phase 23 vendors like that's it's kind of 716 00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:11,700 mind-blowing. Well I think it's weird. 717 00:42:11,900 --> 00:42:14,200 A couple of more when you do, go to the windows to watch section, 718 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,500 then we probably end up as 50 or so. 719 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:21,900 Not only 23, but I would agree with you and I think that. 720 00:42:22,900 --> 00:42:25,200 But is it a decayed where it dies? 721 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,200 I think. The problem is that it dies is 722 00:42:28,100 --> 00:42:33,400 like wisdom Mainframe, you know, there's a place there will be 723 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:39,800 passwords probably forever. But in more restricted 724 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,700 scenarios, probably. So the Mainframe that were dyed 725 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,400 and password and I will die as much as people tried to kill it 726 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,400 is still alive. It's like, you know what is 727 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,900 dead, may never die for my Game of Thrones fans out there. 728 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,100 All right, we're running out of time, but I want to make sure 729 00:42:56,100 --> 00:42:59,300 that we end on a lighter note and, you know, we could pick 730 00:42:59,300 --> 00:43:01,600 Martin, we can pick your brain all day long for hours like you 731 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,300 said. So we'll definitely have to have 732 00:43:03,300 --> 00:43:05,500 you come back on and get into some of the stuff, a little 733 00:43:05,500 --> 00:43:06,200 more. Tail. 734 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,500 But before we go, it is the new year and I'm wondering if you've 735 00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:15,200 made any New Year's resolutions, you know, I would dare to say I 736 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:20,400 gave up on that a bit, so it's wrapped really worked out. 737 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:26,500 So there are things I tried. And moreover the year, maybe 738 00:43:27,100 --> 00:43:30,200 this year, probably, I need to get rid of some of the key extra 739 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:35,400 kilos, I have acquired but it's not letting you use resolution. 740 00:43:36,300 --> 00:43:39,000 Your New Year's resolution was to not have a resolution and 741 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,900 she's just so to speak Buffon. Jim about yourself, any New 742 00:43:42,900 --> 00:43:46,600 Year's resolutions. So I'm a big believer in setting 743 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:51,600 goals to better yourself. And I also think that New Year's 744 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,100 is a great time to do it, right? Because you get this break 745 00:43:54,100 --> 00:43:56,500 before the end of the year. It's a really think about your 746 00:43:56,500 --> 00:44:00,100 life and I come up with strategies and you know, plus 747 00:44:00,100 --> 00:44:01,600 the calendars turning over right. 748 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,500 So but I did not set any resolutions this year. 749 00:44:06,100 --> 00:44:09,800 That doesn't hold me back from setting up a new goal down the 750 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,000 road master. I would encourage everybody to 751 00:44:12,500 --> 00:44:14,200 do. I mean, so how I've always 752 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,600 lived? My life is very goal-oriented. 753 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,600 So I've always got always got to be working towards something. 754 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,400 I want to talk to younger people like, you know, teenagers art, 755 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,900 I've got a couple of teenagers at home, you know. 756 00:44:25,900 --> 00:44:28,700 I tell them they've got to live a goal-oriented life. 757 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,700 You can't just Meander through life and expect to somehow, you 758 00:44:32,700 --> 00:44:35,300 know, achieve something important in this world. 759 00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:39,900 You've got to be Oriented and you need to in your life, have a 760 00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:46,100 mix of short-term, intermediate term and long term goals or I 761 00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:49,900 mean in my book otherwise you will never achieve those goals 762 00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:51,700 are not going to happen by accident. 763 00:44:51,700 --> 00:44:54,800 You're not going to have Financial Fitness in your later 764 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,300 years. If you don't set those goals. 765 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,200 For example, you're not going to be healthy and fit if you don't 766 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,100 set short and medium and long term goals. 767 00:45:04,100 --> 00:45:06,300 So I did not this year. Here. 768 00:45:06,700 --> 00:45:10,000 But you know, I'm always setting goals. 769 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,000 I'm always there watching my girls, you don't wait for it. 770 00:45:13,300 --> 00:45:15,900 Yeah, there you go. Well, that was pretty deep. 771 00:45:16,100 --> 00:45:18,000 Let's quickly. Do you see, I think that's good 772 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,700 advice. Mine was just to be more more 773 00:45:21,100 --> 00:45:24,900 more active on the social networks for the show. 774 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,400 Like, usually what we've been doing is, you know, post an 775 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,400 announcement on, you know, Monday's or whatever it is, we 776 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,600 put out a new show and that's pretty much it. 777 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,800 So, I'm trying to be better about that and be more In the 778 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,600 presence with some that stuff so hopefully you know, folks will 779 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,400 gauge with that. But yeah, I don't know how long 780 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,600 it'll last. I'm probably more with trim when 781 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:49,500 it comes to social networks, to be honest away from her but the 782 00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:51,600 ice that's and the same way personally. 783 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,800 But for this podcast, I find it's a great way to interact 784 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,800 with listeners. Like we're very, you know, we 785 00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,200 have really good listeners, they're always very supportive 786 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,300 and, you know, thousands around the world which is very cool. 787 00:46:01,700 --> 00:46:05,600 So, having an opportunity like tap, you know that In Trust on 788 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,700 link that we have a crane filter, media manager, Marina in 789 00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:11,800 our organization who really supports me on that. 790 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,700 And she, by the way, she also said, I should mention our 791 00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:17,600 upcoming Casey open select offering, which will be launched 792 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,600 very soon. So I have a look at this asshole 793 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,800 at our website. This is really something which 794 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:26,700 helps you gives you guidance throughout the product selection 795 00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:28,400 process. So how do you find the right 796 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,700 solution? We start with password Lancers 797 00:46:30,700 --> 00:46:32,800 indication. That will be the first area we 798 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,700 cover and then we will add hours. 799 00:46:35,300 --> 00:46:36,000 Oh, very cool. Maybe. 800 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,500 When it's time you can come back and kind of walk us through what 801 00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:40,500 that looks like an end to get the word out. 802 00:46:41,100 --> 00:46:43,400 Alright I know we're going a little bit longer than we wanted 803 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,900 to but I really do appreciate the time Martin. 804 00:46:45,900 --> 00:46:48,500 I think you know one of the things that is always a struggle 805 00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:50,900 for me as I listen to these conversations, I'm sitting here 806 00:46:50,900 --> 00:46:52,900 like okay well I'm going to produce the episode get it put 807 00:46:52,900 --> 00:46:55,100 together. What do we call this show? 808 00:46:55,100 --> 00:46:57,200 Because I feel like it was like all over the place from an 809 00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:01,000 identity perspective and my my thought process right now is 810 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,100 like something like, you know, picking Martin's brain or some 811 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,500 Like that. Do you have any suggestions for 812 00:47:06,500 --> 00:47:09,000 what we should call this show? Yeah. 813 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,800 I recently at the CSL is conference, I had to do a 814 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,300 session of rituals called ask ask, ask me everything, or 815 00:47:16,300 --> 00:47:19,200 something like that. Where people had the opportunity 816 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,400 to bring up their questions, we trust, by the way, very 817 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,000 interesting because we touch some, some some areas where I 818 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,500 sort of, maybe we should do something very different. 819 00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:33,000 So, so some things I'll publish about soon. 820 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,000 So I like this. Franz because yeah, you ideas 821 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:41,100 come up when having these conversations lately like an 822 00:47:41,100 --> 00:47:44,300 opportunity to be here so. Well, yeah, I mean, this is very 823 00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:46,600 cool. So maybe something like a am a 824 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:47,800 right. Ask me anything. 825 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:52,900 I am a Martin Cooper or something like that. 826 00:47:52,900 --> 00:47:54,500 Well, that's kind of come up with something but yeah. 827 00:47:54,500 --> 00:47:56,500 Okay. Alright, let's go ahead and wrap 828 00:47:56,500 --> 00:47:59,500 it up for this week is our first show back from break. 829 00:47:59,500 --> 00:48:01,500 So I'm very happy that you're able to join us Martin. 830 00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,800 I'll have a whole bunch of links in our show notes, You can 831 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:06,500 connect with. Martin on LinkedIn will have a 832 00:48:06,508 --> 00:48:09,900 link to Cooper, your coals website, the European identity, 833 00:48:09,900 --> 00:48:13,500 and Cloud conference, definitely want to check out for folks who 834 00:48:13,500 --> 00:48:16,900 are able to make it out there as well as identify verse and the 835 00:48:16,900 --> 00:48:18,500 Gartner Summit all things like that. 836 00:48:18,500 --> 00:48:22,300 So we're on the web identity at the center.com. 837 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:28,000 We're on Twitter at IDC podcast. We're on Mastodon at idac 838 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,900 podcast at infosec exchange. That's going to get real 839 00:48:30,900 --> 00:48:32,700 confusing at some point. So maybe there's a better way to 840 00:48:32,700 --> 00:48:35,100 do that. But we're always happy to 841 00:48:35,100 --> 00:48:37,200 connect and engage with, you know, our listeners and I'm sure 842 00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,400 Martin's always happy to connect and engage with folks. 843 00:48:39,700 --> 00:48:41,100 He's been very generous with his time. 844 00:48:41,100 --> 00:48:44,000 Any final thoughts? You want to impart upon the 845 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,900 crowd? That is listening Martin for 846 00:48:45,900 --> 00:48:48,400 this episode? I think one of the most 847 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,800 important things, I always tell people is take the time, 848 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,600 sometimes to step back and think about our, are you already 849 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,000 heading in the right direction? Is it threats in? 850 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,800 You're doing? Because we all are so, so 851 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:05,200 absorbed in our daily work that we tend to And continue and 852 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:06,800 continue a program. What you're doing? 853 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:11,700 But stepping back a bit of like the singer talk about with is it 854 00:49:11,700 --> 00:49:13,500 a symptoms? We are dressing or the course 855 00:49:13,900 --> 00:49:16,200 take that time. Always is very valuable. 856 00:49:16,500 --> 00:49:19,000 Yeah, for sure, jump about yourself words of wisdom for 857 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,500 this first show back. You know, I'm just clearing out 858 00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:25,600 the cobwebs, so, you know, I'm so, so on that vacation 859 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,600 hangover. But, yeah, I'm looking forward 860 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,800 to this year and I'm looking forward to all of our conference 861 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,600 line up and Jeff. We've got to Get approved to go 862 00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,600 to the European identity conference. 863 00:49:37,700 --> 00:49:39,800 I just feel like this should be the year. 864 00:49:40,300 --> 00:49:40,900 Yeah. Daniel. 865 00:49:40,900 --> 00:49:42,300 If you're listening. That's that's something we 866 00:49:42,300 --> 00:49:43,800 probably got to coming your way in a little bit. 867 00:49:45,300 --> 00:49:46,600 All right. Let's go ahead and leave it 868 00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:48,700 there for this week, Martin. Appreciate the time. 869 00:49:48,700 --> 00:49:52,600 Jim is always appreciate the time, happy New Year to all and 870 00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:55,000 with that we'll talk with everyone in the next one. 871 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,300 Thanks for listening to the identity at the center podcast. 872 00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,100 If you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe. 873 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:07,500 Bribe and visit us on the web and identity at the center.com.