Do you know who has access to what this is?
The identity at the center podcast?
If you're looking for identity and access management talk
you've come to the right place and now on to the show, Welcome
to the identity of the sender podcasts.
I'm Jeff, that's Jim, I'm Jim, you are Jim sitting here in
sweltering, hot Georgia, Jeff, it is September 13th, is 95
degrees outside, it's it's not great.
This is an air conditioning all day and go outside and it's like
when is fall going to be here. You and I are going to be in
Boston next week and I was informed.
It's going to be in the 90s in Boston.
In late September. I just don't get it.
I don't like it. I do.
I find this completely unacceptable and I'm very
excited. You know, me, right?
Tech kind of nerd guy, right? Sony has a personal air
conditioner t-shirt that they're coming out with and I cannot
wait for something like that to become more mainstream.
It's going to start in Japan. I think it is later this year is
like a Kickstarter or Indiegogo, but I'm hopeful that stuff like
that. I'm all about the personal
climate control. Absolutely you and Your personal
fan. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. You know, I got an observation
to share with your jeff which is that I believe you have a
resistance to heat and humidity you're resisting.
I am resistant to it, I do not like it.
It is not my thing. I am a cold-weather bird.
I would much rather it be 30 degrees then 80 degrees believe
it or not. You know, I was kind of leading
into our conversation as looking at a Really good blog with the
reasons people resist change. And I'm thinking one of the
reasons that you're resistant to hot weather is that you were not
being consulted. You are not consulted on on
whether or not it's not whether was any good.
Yeah, that's that's playwright and no one no one ran this by me
I would have e towed it. I would have I would have
provided some input into hopefully influencing the
decision to be made that that temperature was unacceptable.
And would need to be revised. Our for that is that is right
there. Jim that is professional
podcast, segue magic that you just did.
All right, that's my specialty. Have you done this before?
Yeah, I think we're on episode twelve, so over 12.
Yeah, so we're going to talk about change hon battling
resistance against kind of change against the.
I am world I guess can come in many forms, many reasons, right?
Things like no funding. I don't know why I need it.
You know what is this thing? We're trying to do.
Or maybe you've already got something in place and she's not
getting used things like that. You guys think coming up in a
couple of our projects recently, which is your customers or
clients who have deployed, I am tools Risa certain level of
success and then they're having trouble moving forward.
And so, you know, the two major examples that I'm probably going
to keep referencing back to is first in the privileged access
management space Where, you know, organizations stand up for
great privileged access management tool.
And the people who need to use it are tremendously resistant
and they're finding every reason that is not going to work.
The second area is in you know whether its identity Governor's
or kind of single sign-on or you know access management General,
you've got kind of the big gorilla applications in the
organization's or Pig. Large groups that are saying,
don't touch my application and I'm trending to both of these
types of situations a few times in my career.
And so I'd like to know as the pod great podcast progresses
kind of talk about things I've done that I think can really
help our listeners kind of take on those types of resistance.
Yeah and I think there's definitely some creative ways to
solve that and it's some stuff that you know I've done in the
past as program management maybe we should start.
With why is there resistance and the way that I was thinking
about it was I kind of bucket of things into kind of three major
categories. There's Financial there's
personal and their strategic. So for my financial standpoint,
you know, why would someone resist doing something in the IM
space? And this probably isn't specific
either tie Em Right? Probably apply to anything but
we're and I am podcast. We're going to focus on the I Am
side. Yeah first thing for a financial
right, can we afford this? Can't afford it, we don't have
the funding, don't want to do something you know to solve this
issue. That's come up.
You know, maybe we don't need it.
There's no /. You know, there's no realization
of what is the benefit. Why do we need to do that?
So therefore, we're not going to do the funding or maybe in this
came up earlier this week. With one of the clients I'm
working with, you know, what's the return on the investment?
A lot of people are looking for. Okay.
How does this save us money? You know, maybe maybe it does.
Maybe it doesn't, right? So there could be a few
different Financial things, I think about it from a personal
standpoint. There's, there's a fear that
comes along sometimes with I am right job loss.
This is going to automate me out of a position kingdoms crumble,
maybe internally. Right?
You may be built a team or an organization that has a lot of
head count. And maybe there's some fear
around, losing some of that Kingdom because, you know, you
can lose familiarity with existing processes on the
personal side. So you know how to do it today
and this is the way it works, right?
I'm not going to switch to a smartphone because my flip phone
is works just fine for me. Never mind, all the benefits.
I'll get, you know, out of moving to, you know, the new
technology this is what I like in this isn't.
I'm not willing to make a change, you know, could be
things around red tape. Other in a fish's in
efficiencies and it probably strikes kind of what you were
talking about the privileged access management site, right?
It's this is just another step. I have to go through to get what
I need or there's no, why am I doing this?
Because it's just an efficient perception of it and then I'm
from the Strategic side, I'm thinking, you know, it doesn't
align with business, needs you Are we doing this?
It doesn't make any sense strategically as an
organization. Why do we need this or my
favorite it's--, going to handle it toss it over the it wall.
Itu figured out all of a sudden I've got a whole bunch of Heroes
on the it side. I am heroics as I like to call
it who are making things happen. Despite, you know, the the lack
of Investments, you know, whether its Financial or even
just, you know, thought leadership on the business side
to help with, you know, fixing problems.
As maybe that don't work, what do you thinking?
I think you raised a lot of the same points that probably are
going to be in what I have to say.
So I'll try not to repeat a lot of what you're saying because I
agree with where you're coming from, you know, the angle that I
chose to look at resistance, is that resistance to, I am a lot
like resistance to change as human being.
So we kind of view the world. It's really human beings
interacting and as human beings who are Putting up the
resistance. It it's kind of like, you know,
how in our practice, we have that slide which is the top 10
reasons. I am projects fail and if you
trace those back, there are all the same reasons, almost all
projects fail, right. And not that is not a creative
side or that it's not true. It's just it's the same reasons.
Things fail in other IT projects or other projects.
Ihr projects are financed. Projects are similar are the
same reasons. I am projects fail foremost for
the most part and I think the reason people resist change in,
I am ties back a lot to why they resist change everywhere.
And so I found this really cool blog, which I would like to link
in the show notes, but I'm going to go through a few of these and
see which one's resonating just kind of.
Let me know if you hear one. Do you want to kind of talk
about the first is misunderstanding about the need
for change when the reason for change is unclear.
So I think that's kind What you are saying where they're not
people are not really sure of like, what is the benefit here?
Fear of the unknown? I think this is a big one,
especially for I am and IT projects, which is like, okay,
you're bringing up something like privileged access
management. What does that?
Even what does that even really mean?
I'm scared of that. I think you know in life we can
be scared of the unknown and I think certainly when it comes to
I am projects the same kind of thing is like people need to be
educated. Dated about it.
And you know, the only thing is it just education.
So if you're not a trusted source of information, if you
haven't kind of established that yes I actually do what I'm doing
and that people believe that, then they may not even trust you
as a source of expertise in something.
So again this is kind of going all the way back to you.
Like the human psychic psychology aspect.
Yeah. Number Lack of competence.
So, this kind of goes back to what I was talking about the big
gorillas where, you know, so one of the things I've run into with
some of my clients is that they'll have a major I am
system, that is, as achieved a certain level of success, and
now, they've reach out to the big gorilla.
Like the big Erp system or the big EMR system and their
organization. They want to pull that in to the
IMs here and they say good, we Can integrate with your
application for provisioning and we can you know suck out all the
entitlements is going to be great.
We're going to take all this work, off your shoulders and
they say you know you don't know how how much work does this
really is like you're not you don't have the confidence to
take over what we do. It's it's complex you don't get
the problem and so just kind of getting into one of the ways I
think to combat that. Is, okay, so let's take the IGA,
for example. So, starting with IGA, I like
to, like, let's walk before we can run.
So let's start at a very low touch operation.
Let's start collecting accounts, entitlements.
And showing that we can build the one place to go to know who
has access to what. Let's get the account.
Those correlate them to identities and then we have a
picture of what access a person has system from as far.
Far as like any kind of risk that you could be putting toward
that IGA system. It's minimal because all you're
doing is kind of read. You have a kind of read only
access and then you start stepping into more advanced
features and you show that look, we actually do have competence.
We are able to, you know, integrate with your assistant
without breaking things without taking your system down, you're
not now at the mercy of of our system being available in order
to You or maybe you are at the mercy as you get into
provisioning and access requests and things like that, even more
like single sign-on but we've now had an opportunity to prove
ourselves by stepping through this that, you know, we as we
took on more and more risk but some are more and more
functionality. We've shown success.
So it's kind of the way I like to approach that kind of Fear
Factor that level of resistance because it's like, okay, Jeff
has come a long. Now, all of a sudden You were so
surprised visionnaire accounts first off, I don't know that
Jeff even has the capability second off.
I don't know if his systems even going to be reliable.
I'm the last thing I want to do is hand over some function.
That is critical for me to provide a service of the
business. And I don't know if Jeff can
really do it. And so then Jeff comes and says,
well, let you know, I've got a responsibility to business to
which is to show, you know, to have one place to go to new as
access to what let me in. Used get a file feed, or let me
at least, have a read-only account to a database to
database you to pull the accounts and tyrants.
And then we look at me very well.
You know, this is going to keep Jeff happy, let's give them
that, but it gives you an opportunity.
First off, it does provide real value because now you see what
people have access to in the big rule application as well as all
the other applications. But to it's like, okay look,
that wasn't so bad. We're able to connect.
It wasn't so bad. You know, build that trust,
right? I mean it's that that that
competence factor, I see it, going both ways.
So the confidence to be able to do what you're say, you're going
to do right here is all the features and I think that's part
of you know, good program management is managing the
expectations, right? Because you know you don't want
to over promise and under deliver if anything under
promise and over deliver, that's kind of my motto.
So you know what, you know, build that trust with the
organization that you can do it, you're gonna say, do, but also
from the resistance and the chain standpoint I see.
The other side to where the way that you've been doing your
work, right? If you're a recipient of these
kind of new things that are coming from, I am you've got to
be able to adapt and change the times, right?
Maybe you've been working in a manual mode and creating sap
accounts, you know, for the last 10 years and now there's a, you
know, a better way to automate it and make it more efficient.
Sometimes your skill sets are going to have to evolve with the
organization and I think sometimes, you know, people fear
that on the other side of things too, is they're not willing to
make that change. JH, which is unfortunate.
And sometimes that leads to casualties and the war on the, I
Am side but if people are willing to change their skills
or update their skills to keep up with times, you know, I think
that that may help sometimes with that just, it's an
unfortunate as a sad thing, sometimes people can can't or
won't change their own skill set to keep Pace with where the
organization is going, and that's just something to be
aware of, so I can you just nailed the the skill of the
Ultimate podcast Segway is number four was connected to the
old way. You know, people who have
emotional connections or are kind of hardwired to the way
they've been doing things and now all of a sudden you're
asking them to do things in a new way.
I also think you know I was thinking about a lot of
automation over time has obsoleted manual ways of doing
things right? And some people don't people are
afraid To be obsoleted, right? Especially if they really, like
the job, they have or really connected to the job.
They have, they don't want to see that go away.
They like maybe answering the phones and or getting the facts
tickets and punching in, you know, user account and there's
fewer and fewer places that do that, but I guess I'm getting as
connected to the old way, is another form of resistance,
makes a lot of sense. Yeah, about the next one, which
is low. Trust, People don't believe that
they or the company can confidently, manage change.
So this is another one where you know, in that privileged access
management competency that I talk about a lot of times
talking about a group of folks who are tasked with running your
server environment, where your network environment or anything,
it was kind of that core infrastructure.
Anywhere that you want to roll out privileged access management
and those people are Responsible for keeping systems online.
And if this is some sort down there, you know, penalize her
not doing their job. And here you come along, and you
want to take over how they sign into this application and now
their success and being able to do their job is dependent on you
and this technology that you're going to roll up, making it, you
know, the sound very bad but at some level it is like if you're
privileged access management system, To go down for an hour.
They had a server outage of, they need to get to servers and
couldn't get passwords. Potentially could be interfering
with their ability to do their job.
And so my kind of solution to this one is I really feel like
those system teams can or in some cases should on privileged
access management and at the I am team should provide a support
function or you know, at least a checks.
And balances to what that team does with the system.
So you know this will not be the right solution for everybody but
if you're facing a lot of resistance where say the Windows
Server team or the Linux server team, you know, doesn't want to
get on board with using from The Jacksons measure and they're
constantly trying to look for work around so that they're not
dependent on your system. And your system is not as
effective. One way that you could try to
address. That is put that team in charge
of the camp. System is like Guys, this is a
utility for you and what we look at us as part of the team who
can help make it more effective. No, from a from a security
standpoint. I think most managers over a
server support team, even service support team of, you
know, hundreds of Administrators is going to want to know that.
You know, we when somebody leaves the organization, they're
not a threat and that we are doing some logging of what
people are doing. Doing.
But, at the same time, even though I want those things, I
don't want to compromise my ability to deliver the services
that I'm tasked with delivering. So, if you put me in charge of
the system, if I can be the person who makes sure that that
system is working, I own it. That is a potential solution to
making me feel more secure and getting over this low trust
hurdle we talked about from a resistance standpoint.
Yeah, there are Movement right? Making them part of the process.
Yeah. We got to be open to making
changes based on feedback from that, too.
I think that's one thing to think about from from and I am
program perspective is to not be stuck on your path recognize
when there are changes and suggestions that are good,
right? And will make things easier and
will help with adoption. Don't be so regimented in your
approach that this is the way we have to do it, right?
It's okay. Yeah, that's a great idea.
Let's figure out how to incorporate that.
So if you involve the people, right and take Their feedback
and actually incorporate it that I think that helps drive that
change as well. Yeah.
So the next one will hear is temporary fad and wasn't sure
how to associate this one but internet's a fad, you know what
Jeff? I mean it's a good joke, right?
Internet some fat obviously it doesn't make sense.
Say the iPhone is a fact I think the first iPhone came out 12
years ago, listen to Joe Rogan podcast.
I'm not that I'm, I'm trying to advertise for another podcast,
right? But Jose he has a podcast.
A lot of people tend to listen to it.
Anyway the iPhones been out for 12 years think of how much it
seems to have changed over the per day.
I mean in some ways, it's kind of the same thing, but in other
ways it's so much more advanced and you know I think in the I am
space there is like with open our minds to the fact that yeah,
we're here every day and it doesn't seem like it's
revolutionising overnight but we keep seeing These things pop up
where you know for example there's like the the typing type
of multi-factor authentication so it's looking.
So is that something that's? Yeah, he sure.
Okay, Jay couldn't even think of the name of it.
But yeah I mean to me and the only reason I'm bringing it up
is like is it a fad? Well, we don't know yet.
But it's pretty good going to try to, you know, get your users
to accept something out. The good thing about that
product, is it really does need to be accepted by user is
happening in the background. But you know, is this something
that's going to be around for a long time?
I don't know, or is it just a fad anyway so that way I'm going
to skip that one because I don't think that's one of the main
reasons for resistance, but when I think it comes, I am right?
I think there are some things that are relatively mature but
there are components of I am that are still being worked out.
You mentioned like the Biometrics right with the
keystroke one, you know. I think there's still people
searching for a reason to use blockchain.
For example, right, is that a sad?
I don't know. It's pretty early, you know, you
know, I think that's a conversation that we might
tackle, you know, in a future episode in more detail.
But I think there are components that are pretty solid
fundamental, right automation? But I think there are some
things where we're not sure yet. If it if it is a At or not, take
some time to bake. That's true.
And, you know, some things
around for five years, it's not considered a fat, I think, in
this space. But you think about the course
of human history or the to do the course of computers.
Even, that's it's a blip right? Well, bottoms were popular in
the 70s, right? And then I go, Who would wear
those in the 80s and 90s and then they started to come back
again. So, right?
It's cyclical. So, the next one on the list in
this really good blog. Ugh is not being consulted and I
think this is something we see all the time where you know,
people feel like hey if I wasn't brought in to help to find the
problem and to find them solution then I'm not going to
agree with it but that's not always the case but I do see
that pop up a lot fact I'd say within our advisory Services
area. One of the things that we do say
get lots of people involved if you're not sure involve them, at
least get there. You of what is the problem, then
they're more likely to be onboard with the solution
because I think that it's easy to go out when you're doing an
advisory sales pitch. For example, people want to know
what is it that you guys do and we say, well we put together a
strategy that's going to achieve by in the questions.
Like well how are you going to do that?
I think to get buy-in to the solution, people have to feel
like they were part. Part of the definition of the
problem. So you guys are the industry and
other words. So if I'm in the seat of one of
these people, you guys are the industry experts.
And let me tell you about how things are here.
What my problem is and what I want to see improved and then if
you can come back later and say you said a b, c d, e f and
here's how we're going to solve each one of those problems.
Okay. If I truly believe you're the
experts or at your What you're saying seems logical.
And you well thought through and you give me an opportunity to
ask questions, I'll buy in because I was part of the / part
of the definition of the problem.
Yeah. It's that involvement, right
helps. So if they're part of that part
of that discussion, I think sometimes, you know, you just
want people's voices to be heard, right?
And and maybe that's what they're looking for.
To, did you take it? Did you take us into account?
Or did you forget about us? And I think if you can
demonstrate that yeah you know what you were part of the part
of the Process. You know we heard you and here's
how we're going to solve your specific problems.
I think that's a powerful message that comes out of the
program itself, right? Making sure that you know from a
program management standpoint, you are listening to your
constituents, right? You're out there shaking hands,
you know, kissing babies, all the stuff that you need to do on
the politics politics side of, I am program management.
Making sure that people's voices are heard and that you're
recognizing that absolutely. So the next one is poor
communication. Probably is It's just, it's
self-evident, isn't it? When it comes to change
management, their hands fingers too much communication?
I mean, what if what are some of your experiences with this?
Yeah, I mean it's a lot of it and I'll go back to, you know,
help desk days. Where what do you mean there's
this new process, right? People aren't aware of it or oh,
this is how we're doing this now.
I wasn't aware that this is, you know, the way that we reset our
new passwords or, you know, things like that.
How do I request access a lot of the stuff, you know.
It's The communication needs to be pretty open and clear, but
you have to make sure that your Communications are tailored for
your audience, right? You're going to, you're going to
talk a different way to your c-suite.
Your Executives, on how things are supposed to work versus
somebody who may be working on a line, right?
So if you're bottling, you know, Windex and you need access to a
terminal machine that's on that line.
There's going to be a different communication style and approach
because people have different levels of understanding between
what are the services you're providing.
You know, how do they take advantage of those Services Etc.
So I think you need to make sure that when you're communicating
you're thinking about all of these different things and it
stretches across the organization, I always used to
hate it. When people would throw things
in a production and it was okay you know IDM and you guys figure
out how you're going to support it.
Well, how come you didn't include us as part of that
process? We could help make sure that the
process you're thinking about actually do make sense in the
real world. So you want to make sure that
you've got your Ops Team, you know, part of that.
That part of that communication path as well, but make sure your
end users know about the services.
Right? I mean that that's going to help
the adoption as well, you know. Yeah, just make sure people know
about it and I don't think anyone has ever complained about
too much communication especially in an organization
where sometimes that there is not enough communication
historically, maybe not for your own project, but maybe for other
things, I think people just want to be informed great.
And this I think poor communication is really
highlighted when Talking about change resistance that's
happening in the end user population.
So you're rolling out some kind of change a new single sign-on
system that's going to affect hundreds or thousands of people
or, you know, I guess our case where you could be affecting
millions of people and all of a sudden they end up on the
screen, they don't know what to do.
And they don't feel like they knew this was coming, right?
It's a bad experience. One of the things that this
whole discussion reminded me of though, is that, you know, from
a project management Judgment standpoint.
If you're managing an IM project one, you should have an
organizational change management plan other words.
How are the changes that you're implementing going to affect
your end, users? Not just your end users, but
every party that gets affected. I'm really trying to think of
that, from a 360-degree perspective, the second thing is
usually in a more advanced sdlc. The communication plan is going
to be separate from Word change plan.
So have a separate communication.
It just shows you how important communication is in that, you
know, the idea that you can't over communicate, there's no
such thing, right? And this isn't something that's
easy, right? Sometimes you mean I have, you
know, who you need to communicate to you, and you're
going to have to, you know, talk with different folks and make
sure that you try and get as much feedback as possible, but
it's not an easy thing, but it's a necessary thing to have a
successful program, right? You know, I think there are a
couple other other Good points in here, but I'm going to go
through them because we're getting a little long here
changes to routine. So that's impact of people.
He used to doing things a certain way and all of a sudden
you're changing the way they have to do it, but they don't
see that changes beneficial to them or, you know, saving them
time, or they like it better, for whatever reason.
That can be, you know, you can please resistance, exhaustion
saturation. So, this is something big that
we've run into. I think with a lot of our
clients was that, There's so much change going on.
In the it environment and information workers are getting
like Deluge with new systems upgrades and things and they
wind up spending a big part of their day.
Just dealing with you know dealing with it change and then
you come along with one more thing and they're going to be
resistant to that because it's like stop, let's slow down.
I've got a job to do so I think that's where that part of
change. Management.
Can or resistance to change can come up with I am changing the
Status Quo so resistance can also stem from perceptions of
the change that people hold for example people who feel that
they'll be worse off. At the end of the change are
unlikely to give their full support you know.
There's a going back to that Pam example.
Like you know if you don't see a problem with the way things are
working today, if you're a system administrator and you log
into 1,000 servers, using the same.
Username password. If not a problem for you.
Yeah. How am I going to benefit from?
You locking my account in a vault and I don't know the
password for it. How does that help me?
Write it helps you because it makes the organization more
secure and we're less likely that had been, you know, for to
be your fault but, you know, we're less what so it's to look
for those reasons why, you know, changing the Status Quo actually
provides you better than the last One is benefits rewards,
which is that when people don't understand what is the benefit,
whether it's kind of an intrinsic benefit or not, you
know, do how are they benefiting or how the organization
benefiting when you're, you know, this, as far as I see, the
process is not better for me. So, what is the benefit?
Why do I need this? What am I?
What is the what is? Why is this good for me?
I think that's really what it comes down to, right?
So why do I need to do this? I think there's it leaders.
We have to be open to the idea that we're going to Market.
Our are changes in our, you know, we're going to push change
on the organization. We have to be open to the idea
that we're going to Market and convince people that it's
actually a good idea. I don't think we should be
resistant to that, that thought. I think we should be willing to,
you know, take the time to really make sure that we
understand the benefits, and that we are, you know, bounce.
Going up against the wall with people who can question them.
And then we go out to the broader audience and and Market
that hey, this is going to provide a benefit to you or to
the organization or to our customers and therefore, it's
worth. You putting up with the, you
know, what you see is? The downside of the change,
right? Yeah.
And if you got data around that I think that helps to sometimes
that you may not have something like oh this is going to save,
you know, this much time or this much costs, you know?
On the way we do business, sometimes you can't calculate
the benefits and it's things like, yeah, we just know that
it's a better easier, more secure process, right?
Sometimes that's hard to calculate and sometimes it goes
back to the right to the return on the investment, you know, the
side of it. But understanding that and
selling it, I'm a big fan of treating.
I am like a product, even if it's a product that is internal,
right? Your customers are going to be
your co-workers, contractors vendors, whoever is sitting
inside. Add the firewall so to speak,
you know, not traditionally, true customers, who might be,
you know, more of a b2c use case, right, where you're
dealing with folks that are not working for your company, but if
you can take the mindset of this is, this is my, I am product.
I think that goes a long way to helping with a lot of these
different areas, you know, communicating it understanding
the benefits for of it before it and being able to Market it and
sell it to people and and you know, sometimes you need to take
a Grassroots approach to some time.
Taking a top-down executive approach may not be as
effective. Maybe you want to get some
admins involved and say, hey, I know you're typically putting in
a bunch of forms for, you know, adds and removes every week.
What if I had a better way for you to do that, right?
And you start working with folks on the ground level and help
them understand the value. And you kind of tackle it from
both sides. I think sometimes that helps
helps get that benefit statement out there.
So people understand why this is helpful for them.
I also like our neighboring bribery is a good one, okay?
If you can well you I mean is it a jokingly?
But you've had some thoughts. Killer ideas are some killer
experiences in terms of running contests and giving away, you
know, are pods or whatever having contests going to talk
about that a little bit? Yeah I mean so I think the one
that probably stands out the most for me would be you know we
launched a self-service password reset capability and the
enrollment in the system was not where he wanted it to be.
Was pretty low as only like, 30 or 40 percent.
I think so we did was okay. Well, how do we solve that?
I thought was okay. Well, iPad was new at the time,
right? New technology.
It cost a few hundred bucks. It was like four or five hundred
bucks at the time. What if we gave away an iPad and
to be eligible for that giveaway?
As part of a raffle, all you had to do was have your you know
voiceprint or your secret questions and answers.
This is a long time ago and roles in the system and if you
were enrolled by in the summer you know We have a raffle and
give away an iPad or two or three, whatever.
One. We saw a huge take you.
No time. It was, it was something that
was of value enough that people were interested in, right?
It wasn't like, oh, you get a free t-shirt, okay?
Some people that might be motivated but most people
weren't so, you know, for that four or five hundred dollar
investment on an iPad. We went from like 40 percent
enrollment began this summer to like over 80 or close to 90%
forget the exact number by the end of that summer.
And it was Excellent out of things to write working with
folks who are taking the calls and say, hey did you know that
you could have done this, you know, your password reset your
own? This time?
Can I help you walk through? You know how to set that up.
So if you're your first line support is aware of your
processes and capabilities, you know, they can also help Market
those to the others as well, but I think bribery is a great one.
I'm a fan of it and sometimes it's super cost-effective if
it's something that's tolerated within your organization, doing
giveaways like that. At, you know, you do lunch and
learns and brown bags and drives again treat.
If you treat like a product, right?
Make it interesting for people and help them understand how
easy it is to use their services because hopefully you're
developing services that are easy to use and you know on
obstructive as much as possible that'll help with the adoption
of it. Yeah.
All right. Those are great ideas and great
experiences, you know, Jeff but we keep doing this podcast.
Nobody's going to need to hire us because pretty, give away all
of our Good ideas, that's fine. We're all in it together.
I think, you know, one of the common things that I've heard
and read about in some of the feedback email.
So, we've gotten is that, hey, I'm not alone, right?
It's everyone struggles with this, if I am was easy, everyone
would be doing it. And I think the stronger that we
all collectively get on the, I Am side, there's enough change,
right? I'm willing to adapt my skills
and understand new technologies, and that's part of our job,
right? Is understanding what's next?
But, you know, I think it just drives security, and It's
something that I certainly enjoy having these conversations
around because I'm always curious what is next, right?
I've probably asked before. What's the next interface look
like? Is it voice, is it?
You know some sort of machine learning that knows what I want
before I want it is it some you know tied to some sort of
biometric I don't know right? There's probably options are on
all those is the technology there yet to support it.
And probably not at least not on a scale and a cost level.
It makes sense but there's always something at the me
change and you know that feedback of you're not alone.
And it's certainly one that resonates to out there.
Well, yeah, I love the fan mail that we've been getting out, you
know, every time I call it than male or female.
So, weird to say, don't say that fan mail, I know you can't and
so but no the mailbag idea and getting feedback certainly
appreciate. So if you're out there, drop us
a line, even just a list of you're loosening but also
anything that you'd like us to discuss in future episodes or
Any observations you made anything?
We've talked about that, you'd like us to share.
We'd love to hear from you. And it really helps to keep us
going to know that people actually value what we're doing.
Now, that's what the two is that you're talking to her in our, in
our dark basements, or rooms where with them.
Recording anyway, yes we are. We're going, we're doing it for
the people, it's For the Love of the Game.
It'll be interesting to see how you do it but our next couple.
Yeah, we're on the road. I think four straight weeks so
that'll be interesting, but at least we'll be in the same room
and we'll have to see how it goes.
But yeah, the plan is to definitely put content out there
every week. Still, like we've been doing for
12 weeks in a row, which I think a milestone for us, it is nice,
when that's what 14 weeks is a quarter.
So I think our next one is going to be Really truly, Which
business is this episode 12 or do we release episode 12 today?
Episode 11 went live today and we're yeah, we're typically a
week ahead. We're so now we're pulling back
the curtain a little bit breaking down that fourth wall.
We're typically recording a week in advance, which is, you know,
smart as if I do say so. Because, you know, we are on the
road, sometimes it's difficult to get, you know, time to be
able to put out, a decent recording and something that we
think might be interesting, but this would be a good challenge.
A sex couple weeks, right? Yeah.
Well, it should be putting that out there.
I'd like to hear feedback from, you know, our listeners,
especially those of us who are. I am practitioners to say, okay?
What is the type of content? You think you'd get the most
value out of his conversation? Like we had today where we pick
on something like resistance to change and kind of give it the I
am slant is it hearing product? You know, talking to folks who
are We're kind of in the field with product companies or you
know doing implementations who can talk about their specific
spot in the world and maybe their company.
Is it a combination of those two things you just like here in Jim
and Geoff, ramble, whatever kind of feedback you could provide
like that I think would love to hear.
Yeah definitely and you can send it to questions at identity at
the center.com, definitely read. All the emails that come through
and look forward to hearing that feedback.
So, I think that's a pretty good spot to leave it for this week.
I will put a link to the blog that Jim referred to in the show
notes. And before I forget, you were
talking about the 10 pitfalls thing earlier, and one of our
slides, we actually have an e-book around that, that, that
we did last year. So I'll put a link to that as
well in the show notes and I think that's pretty good.
We'll call it for this week. Thanks, Jim.
And thank you all for listening. Listening to the identity at the
center podcast to access all episodes visit identity at the
center.com.