1 00:00:06,100 --> 00:00:08,500 Do you know who has access to what this is? 2 00:00:08,500 --> 00:00:10,600 The identity at the center podcast? 3 00:00:10,900 --> 00:00:13,900 If you're looking for identity and access management talk 4 00:00:13,900 --> 00:00:25,400 you've come to the right place and now on to the show, Welcome 5 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:27,100 to the identity of the sender podcasts. 6 00:00:27,100 --> 00:00:32,000 I'm Jeff, that's Jim, I'm Jim, you are Jim sitting here in 7 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:37,700 sweltering, hot Georgia, Jeff, it is September 13th, is 95 8 00:00:37,700 --> 00:00:41,700 degrees outside, it's it's not great. 9 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,600 This is an air conditioning all day and go outside and it's like 10 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,200 when is fall going to be here. You and I are going to be in 11 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:51,900 Boston next week and I was informed. 12 00:00:51,900 --> 00:00:54,200 It's going to be in the 90s in Boston. 13 00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:57,000 In late September. I just don't get it. 14 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:58,200 I don't like it. I do. 15 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,800 I find this completely unacceptable and I'm very 16 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:02,300 excited. You know, me, right? 17 00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:07,300 Tech kind of nerd guy, right? Sony has a personal air 18 00:01:07,300 --> 00:01:11,300 conditioner t-shirt that they're coming out with and I cannot 19 00:01:11,300 --> 00:01:13,500 wait for something like that to become more mainstream. 20 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,800 It's going to start in Japan. I think it is later this year is 21 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:20,000 like a Kickstarter or Indiegogo, but I'm hopeful that stuff like 22 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,200 that. I'm all about the personal 23 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,700 climate control. Absolutely you and Your personal 24 00:01:25,700 --> 00:01:27,100 fan. Yeah, exactly. 25 00:01:27,500 --> 00:01:30,000 Yeah. You know, I got an observation 26 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,200 to share with your jeff which is that I believe you have a 27 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,400 resistance to heat and humidity you're resisting. 28 00:01:36,700 --> 00:01:39,100 I am resistant to it, I do not like it. 29 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,000 It is not my thing. I am a cold-weather bird. 30 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:47,500 I would much rather it be 30 degrees then 80 degrees believe 31 00:01:47,500 --> 00:01:51,500 it or not. You know, I was kind of leading 32 00:01:51,500 --> 00:01:56,100 into our conversation as looking at a Really good blog with the 33 00:01:56,100 --> 00:02:00,700 reasons people resist change. And I'm thinking one of the 34 00:02:00,700 --> 00:02:05,000 reasons that you're resistant to hot weather is that you were not 35 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,000 being consulted. You are not consulted on on 36 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,100 whether or not it's not whether was any good. 37 00:02:10,699 --> 00:02:13,600 Yeah, that's that's playwright and no one no one ran this by me 38 00:02:13,700 --> 00:02:16,700 I would have e towed it. I would have I would have 39 00:02:16,700 --> 00:02:21,200 provided some input into hopefully influencing the 40 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,500 decision to be made that that temperature was unacceptable. 41 00:02:24,900 --> 00:02:27,800 And would need to be revised. Our for that is that is right 42 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,900 there. Jim that is professional 43 00:02:30,100 --> 00:02:32,400 podcast, segue magic that you just did. 44 00:02:32,700 --> 00:02:35,100 All right, that's my specialty. Have you done this before? 45 00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:39,000 Yeah, I think we're on episode twelve, so over 12. 46 00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:41,900 Yeah, so we're going to talk about change hon battling 47 00:02:41,900 --> 00:02:44,100 resistance against kind of change against the. 48 00:02:44,100 --> 00:02:49,500 I am world I guess can come in many forms, many reasons, right? 49 00:02:49,500 --> 00:02:52,600 Things like no funding. I don't know why I need it. 50 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,700 You know what is this thing? We're trying to do. 51 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,200 Or maybe you've already got something in place and she's not 52 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,800 getting used things like that. You guys think coming up in a 53 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,800 couple of our projects recently, which is your customers or 54 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:11,600 clients who have deployed, I am tools Risa certain level of 55 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,800 success and then they're having trouble moving forward. 56 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,600 And so, you know, the two major examples that I'm probably going 57 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:24,000 to keep referencing back to is first in the privileged access 58 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,900 management space Where, you know, organizations stand up for 59 00:03:27,900 --> 00:03:30,000 great privileged access management tool. 60 00:03:30,300 --> 00:03:34,800 And the people who need to use it are tremendously resistant 61 00:03:35,100 --> 00:03:38,200 and they're finding every reason that is not going to work. 62 00:03:38,700 --> 00:03:43,300 The second area is in you know whether its identity Governor's 63 00:03:43,300 --> 00:03:48,300 or kind of single sign-on or you know access management General, 64 00:03:49,300 --> 00:03:53,000 you've got kind of the big gorilla applications in the 65 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,300 organization's or Pig. Large groups that are saying, 66 00:03:56,500 --> 00:04:00,600 don't touch my application and I'm trending to both of these 67 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,600 types of situations a few times in my career. 68 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:08,400 And so I'd like to know as the pod great podcast progresses 69 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,200 kind of talk about things I've done that I think can really 70 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:16,200 help our listeners kind of take on those types of resistance. 71 00:04:16,500 --> 00:04:18,399 Yeah and I think there's definitely some creative ways to 72 00:04:18,399 --> 00:04:20,899 solve that and it's some stuff that you know I've done in the 73 00:04:20,899 --> 00:04:24,800 past as program management maybe we should start. 74 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,200 With why is there resistance and the way that I was thinking 75 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,000 about it was I kind of bucket of things into kind of three major 76 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,000 categories. There's Financial there's 77 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,700 personal and their strategic. So for my financial standpoint, 78 00:04:36,700 --> 00:04:39,500 you know, why would someone resist doing something in the IM 79 00:04:39,500 --> 00:04:41,000 space? And this probably isn't specific 80 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,500 either tie Em Right? Probably apply to anything but 81 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,600 we're and I am podcast. We're going to focus on the I Am 82 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,900 side. Yeah first thing for a financial 83 00:04:47,900 --> 00:04:50,500 right, can we afford this? Can't afford it, we don't have 84 00:04:50,500 --> 00:04:53,500 the funding, don't want to do something you know to solve this 85 00:04:53,500 --> 00:04:54,700 issue. That's come up. 86 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:56,700 You know, maybe we don't need it. 87 00:04:56,900 --> 00:04:59,000 There's no /. You know, there's no realization 88 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,000 of what is the benefit. Why do we need to do that? 89 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,800 So therefore, we're not going to do the funding or maybe in this 90 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,900 came up earlier this week. With one of the clients I'm 91 00:05:06,900 --> 00:05:09,700 working with, you know, what's the return on the investment? 92 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:11,400 A lot of people are looking for. Okay. 93 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,600 How does this save us money? You know, maybe maybe it does. 94 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,500 Maybe it doesn't, right? So there could be a few 95 00:05:18,500 --> 00:05:21,500 different Financial things, I think about it from a personal 96 00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:23,600 standpoint. There's, there's a fear that 97 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,200 comes along sometimes with I am right job loss. 98 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,800 This is going to automate me out of a position kingdoms crumble, 99 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,400 maybe internally. Right? 100 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,100 You may be built a team or an organization that has a lot of 101 00:05:36,100 --> 00:05:38,500 head count. And maybe there's some fear 102 00:05:38,500 --> 00:05:43,300 around, losing some of that Kingdom because, you know, you 103 00:05:43,300 --> 00:05:45,800 can lose familiarity with existing processes on the 104 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,700 personal side. So you know how to do it today 105 00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:49,100 and this is the way it works, right? 106 00:05:49,100 --> 00:05:52,700 I'm not going to switch to a smartphone because my flip phone 107 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:55,900 is works just fine for me. Never mind, all the benefits. 108 00:05:55,900 --> 00:05:58,400 I'll get, you know, out of moving to, you know, the new 109 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,400 technology this is what I like in this isn't. 110 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,100 I'm not willing to make a change, you know, could be 111 00:06:04,100 --> 00:06:06,700 things around red tape. Other in a fish's in 112 00:06:06,700 --> 00:06:09,000 efficiencies and it probably strikes kind of what you were 113 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,600 talking about the privileged access management site, right? 114 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,500 It's this is just another step. I have to go through to get what 115 00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:17,700 I need or there's no, why am I doing this? 116 00:06:17,700 --> 00:06:21,600 Because it's just an efficient perception of it and then I'm 117 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,600 from the Strategic side, I'm thinking, you know, it doesn't 118 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,500 align with business, needs you Are we doing this? 119 00:06:25,500 --> 00:06:28,100 It doesn't make any sense strategically as an 120 00:06:28,100 --> 00:06:31,100 organization. Why do we need this or my 121 00:06:31,100 --> 00:06:35,300 favorite it's--, going to handle it toss it over the it wall. 122 00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:39,100 Itu figured out all of a sudden I've got a whole bunch of Heroes 123 00:06:39,100 --> 00:06:41,600 on the it side. I am heroics as I like to call 124 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:46,300 it who are making things happen. Despite, you know, the the lack 125 00:06:46,300 --> 00:06:49,500 of Investments, you know, whether its Financial or even 126 00:06:49,500 --> 00:06:52,300 just, you know, thought leadership on the business side 127 00:06:52,300 --> 00:06:54,700 to help with, you know, fixing problems. 128 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:56,600 As maybe that don't work, what do you thinking? 129 00:06:57,500 --> 00:07:00,900 I think you raised a lot of the same points that probably are 130 00:07:00,900 --> 00:07:02,400 going to be in what I have to say. 131 00:07:02,900 --> 00:07:05,600 So I'll try not to repeat a lot of what you're saying because I 132 00:07:05,608 --> 00:07:09,800 agree with where you're coming from, you know, the angle that I 133 00:07:10,100 --> 00:07:15,400 chose to look at resistance, is that resistance to, I am a lot 134 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,100 like resistance to change as human being. 135 00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:23,000 So we kind of view the world. It's really human beings 136 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,900 interacting and as human beings who are Putting up the 137 00:07:25,900 --> 00:07:28,600 resistance. It it's kind of like, you know, 138 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,900 how in our practice, we have that slide which is the top 10 139 00:07:33,100 --> 00:07:35,300 reasons. I am projects fail and if you 140 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,200 trace those back, there are all the same reasons, almost all 141 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,200 projects fail, right. And not that is not a creative 142 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,200 side or that it's not true. It's just it's the same reasons. 143 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,900 Things fail in other IT projects or other projects. 144 00:07:48,900 --> 00:07:52,400 Ihr projects are financed. Projects are similar are the 145 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,600 same reasons. I am projects fail foremost for 146 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,600 the most part and I think the reason people resist change in, 147 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:03,200 I am ties back a lot to why they resist change everywhere. 148 00:08:03,300 --> 00:08:06,700 And so I found this really cool blog, which I would like to link 149 00:08:06,700 --> 00:08:10,900 in the show notes, but I'm going to go through a few of these and 150 00:08:11,100 --> 00:08:13,700 see which one's resonating just kind of. 151 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,100 Let me know if you hear one. Do you want to kind of talk 152 00:08:17,100 --> 00:08:19,700 about the first is misunderstanding about the need 153 00:08:19,700 --> 00:08:22,900 for change when the reason for change is unclear. 154 00:08:22,900 --> 00:08:26,600 So I think that's kind What you are saying where they're not 155 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,500 people are not really sure of like, what is the benefit here? 156 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,600 Fear of the unknown? I think this is a big one, 157 00:08:32,700 --> 00:08:37,000 especially for I am and IT projects, which is like, okay, 158 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,100 you're bringing up something like privileged access 159 00:08:39,100 --> 00:08:41,600 management. What does that? 160 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,500 Even what does that even really mean? 161 00:08:43,700 --> 00:08:46,500 I'm scared of that. I think you know in life we can 162 00:08:46,500 --> 00:08:50,200 be scared of the unknown and I think certainly when it comes to 163 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,300 I am projects the same kind of thing is like people need to be 164 00:08:54,300 --> 00:08:55,700 educated. Dated about it. 165 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,000 And you know, the only thing is it just education. 166 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,600 So if you're not a trusted source of information, if you 167 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,700 haven't kind of established that yes I actually do what I'm doing 168 00:09:07,900 --> 00:09:12,300 and that people believe that, then they may not even trust you 169 00:09:12,300 --> 00:09:15,600 as a source of expertise in something. 170 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,700 So again this is kind of going all the way back to you. 171 00:09:19,700 --> 00:09:22,200 Like the human psychic psychology aspect. 172 00:09:23,900 --> 00:09:26,300 Yeah. Number Lack of competence. 173 00:09:26,500 --> 00:09:31,000 So, this kind of goes back to what I was talking about the big 174 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,800 gorillas where, you know, so one of the things I've run into with 175 00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:39,100 some of my clients is that they'll have a major I am 176 00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:43,000 system, that is, as achieved a certain level of success, and 177 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,700 now, they've reach out to the big gorilla. 178 00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:50,000 Like the big Erp system or the big EMR system and their 179 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,800 organization. They want to pull that in to the 180 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:57,700 IMs here and they say good, we Can integrate with your 181 00:09:57,700 --> 00:10:02,500 application for provisioning and we can you know suck out all the 182 00:10:02,500 --> 00:10:03,700 entitlements is going to be great. 183 00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:06,700 We're going to take all this work, off your shoulders and 184 00:10:06,700 --> 00:10:11,000 they say you know you don't know how how much work does this 185 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,200 really is like you're not you don't have the confidence to 186 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,000 take over what we do. It's it's complex you don't get 187 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:22,800 the problem and so just kind of getting into one of the ways I 188 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:27,300 think to combat that. Is, okay, so let's take the IGA, 189 00:10:27,300 --> 00:10:32,800 for example. So, starting with IGA, I like 190 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,300 to, like, let's walk before we can run. 191 00:10:35,300 --> 00:10:39,100 So let's start at a very low touch operation. 192 00:10:39,100 --> 00:10:42,400 Let's start collecting accounts, entitlements. 193 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,200 And showing that we can build the one place to go to know who 194 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,400 has access to what. Let's get the account. 195 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,100 Those correlate them to identities and then we have a 196 00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:54,700 picture of what access a person has system from as far. 197 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,500 Far as like any kind of risk that you could be putting toward 198 00:10:58,500 --> 00:11:01,300 that IGA system. It's minimal because all you're 199 00:11:01,300 --> 00:11:04,200 doing is kind of read. You have a kind of read only 200 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,200 access and then you start stepping into more advanced 201 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,200 features and you show that look, we actually do have competence. 202 00:11:12,300 --> 00:11:16,000 We are able to, you know, integrate with your assistant 203 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,400 without breaking things without taking your system down, you're 204 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:24,600 not now at the mercy of of our system being available in order 205 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,900 to You or maybe you are at the mercy as you get into 206 00:11:27,900 --> 00:11:31,500 provisioning and access requests and things like that, even more 207 00:11:31,500 --> 00:11:36,300 like single sign-on but we've now had an opportunity to prove 208 00:11:36,300 --> 00:11:39,800 ourselves by stepping through this that, you know, we as we 209 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,500 took on more and more risk but some are more and more 210 00:11:42,500 --> 00:11:45,300 functionality. We've shown success. 211 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,300 So it's kind of the way I like to approach that kind of Fear 212 00:11:49,300 --> 00:11:53,000 Factor that level of resistance because it's like, okay, Jeff 213 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,100 has come a long. Now, all of a sudden You were so 214 00:11:55,100 --> 00:11:57,600 surprised visionnaire accounts first off, I don't know that 215 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,000 Jeff even has the capability second off. 216 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,200 I don't know if his systems even going to be reliable. 217 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,600 I'm the last thing I want to do is hand over some function. 218 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,700 That is critical for me to provide a service of the 219 00:12:09,700 --> 00:12:12,900 business. And I don't know if Jeff can 220 00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:16,100 really do it. And so then Jeff comes and says, 221 00:12:16,100 --> 00:12:19,500 well, let you know, I've got a responsibility to business to 222 00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:22,700 which is to show, you know, to have one place to go to new as 223 00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:26,900 access to what let me in. Used get a file feed, or let me 224 00:12:26,900 --> 00:12:29,900 at least, have a read-only account to a database to 225 00:12:29,900 --> 00:12:32,500 database you to pull the accounts and tyrants. 226 00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:34,900 And then we look at me very well. 227 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,800 You know, this is going to keep Jeff happy, let's give them 228 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,700 that, but it gives you an opportunity. 229 00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:43,500 First off, it does provide real value because now you see what 230 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:47,100 people have access to in the big rule application as well as all 231 00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:50,100 the other applications. But to it's like, okay look, 232 00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:53,500 that wasn't so bad. We're able to connect. 233 00:12:53,500 --> 00:12:55,700 It wasn't so bad. You know, build that trust, 234 00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:57,800 right? I mean it's that that that 235 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,100 competence factor, I see it, going both ways. 236 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,600 So the confidence to be able to do what you're say, you're going 237 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,900 to do right here is all the features and I think that's part 238 00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:08,900 of you know, good program management is managing the 239 00:13:08,900 --> 00:13:11,500 expectations, right? Because you know you don't want 240 00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:14,600 to over promise and under deliver if anything under 241 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,400 promise and over deliver, that's kind of my motto. 242 00:13:16,700 --> 00:13:19,700 So you know what, you know, build that trust with the 243 00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:22,400 organization that you can do it, you're gonna say, do, but also 244 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,600 from the resistance and the chain standpoint I see. 245 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,100 The other side to where the way that you've been doing your 246 00:13:28,100 --> 00:13:30,700 work, right? If you're a recipient of these 247 00:13:30,700 --> 00:13:33,100 kind of new things that are coming from, I am you've got to 248 00:13:33,100 --> 00:13:35,300 be able to adapt and change the times, right? 249 00:13:35,300 --> 00:13:39,200 Maybe you've been working in a manual mode and creating sap 250 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,500 accounts, you know, for the last 10 years and now there's a, you 251 00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:45,200 know, a better way to automate it and make it more efficient. 252 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,400 Sometimes your skill sets are going to have to evolve with the 253 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,500 organization and I think sometimes, you know, people fear 254 00:13:51,500 --> 00:13:54,100 that on the other side of things too, is they're not willing to 255 00:13:54,108 --> 00:13:56,000 make that change. JH, which is unfortunate. 256 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,700 And sometimes that leads to casualties and the war on the, I 257 00:14:00,700 --> 00:14:05,200 Am side but if people are willing to change their skills 258 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,000 or update their skills to keep up with times, you know, I think 259 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,600 that that may help sometimes with that just, it's an 260 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:16,000 unfortunate as a sad thing, sometimes people can can't or 261 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,800 won't change their own skill set to keep Pace with where the 262 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:20,400 organization is going, and that's just something to be 263 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,500 aware of, so I can you just nailed the the skill of the 264 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:29,700 Ultimate podcast Segway is number four was connected to the 265 00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:31,900 old way. You know, people who have 266 00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:35,400 emotional connections or are kind of hardwired to the way 267 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,600 they've been doing things and now all of a sudden you're 268 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,800 asking them to do things in a new way. 269 00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:45,800 I also think you know I was thinking about a lot of 270 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:51,100 automation over time has obsoleted manual ways of doing 271 00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:54,300 things right? And some people don't people are 272 00:14:54,308 --> 00:14:58,200 afraid To be obsoleted, right? Especially if they really, like 273 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,300 the job, they have or really connected to the job. 274 00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:03,600 They have, they don't want to see that go away. 275 00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:07,900 They like maybe answering the phones and or getting the facts 276 00:15:07,900 --> 00:15:12,300 tickets and punching in, you know, user account and there's 277 00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:15,700 fewer and fewer places that do that, but I guess I'm getting as 278 00:15:15,700 --> 00:15:19,500 connected to the old way, is another form of resistance, 279 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,900 makes a lot of sense. Yeah, about the next one, which 280 00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:26,400 is low. Trust, People don't believe that 281 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,900 they or the company can confidently, manage change. 282 00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:32,900 So this is another one where you know, in that privileged access 283 00:15:32,900 --> 00:15:37,200 management competency that I talk about a lot of times 284 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:42,600 talking about a group of folks who are tasked with running your 285 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:47,400 server environment, where your network environment or anything, 286 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,500 it was kind of that core infrastructure. 287 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,900 Anywhere that you want to roll out privileged access management 288 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:58,900 and those people are Responsible for keeping systems online. 289 00:15:58,900 --> 00:16:02,700 And if this is some sort down there, you know, penalize her 290 00:16:02,700 --> 00:16:06,200 not doing their job. And here you come along, and you 291 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,600 want to take over how they sign into this application and now 292 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:15,500 their success and being able to do their job is dependent on you 293 00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:18,600 and this technology that you're going to roll up, making it, you 294 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,500 know, the sound very bad but at some level it is like if you're 295 00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:26,100 privileged access management system, To go down for an hour. 296 00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:29,100 They had a server outage of, they need to get to servers and 297 00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:33,000 couldn't get passwords. Potentially could be interfering 298 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,900 with their ability to do their job. 299 00:16:35,100 --> 00:16:40,800 And so my kind of solution to this one is I really feel like 300 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:46,000 those system teams can or in some cases should on privileged 301 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,400 access management and at the I am team should provide a support 302 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,500 function or you know, at least a checks. 303 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,800 And balances to what that team does with the system. 304 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,000 So you know this will not be the right solution for everybody but 305 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,300 if you're facing a lot of resistance where say the Windows 306 00:17:05,300 --> 00:17:09,599 Server team or the Linux server team, you know, doesn't want to 307 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:11,900 get on board with using from The Jacksons measure and they're 308 00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:15,200 constantly trying to look for work around so that they're not 309 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,000 dependent on your system. And your system is not as 310 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,200 effective. One way that you could try to 311 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,000 address. That is put that team in charge 312 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,500 of the camp. System is like Guys, this is a 313 00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:31,300 utility for you and what we look at us as part of the team who 314 00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:35,100 can help make it more effective. No, from a from a security 315 00:17:35,100 --> 00:17:38,900 standpoint. I think most managers over a 316 00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:42,500 server support team, even service support team of, you 317 00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:46,700 know, hundreds of Administrators is going to want to know that. 318 00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:50,800 You know, we when somebody leaves the organization, they're 319 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,900 not a threat and that we are doing some logging of what 320 00:17:53,900 --> 00:17:54,900 people are doing. Doing. 321 00:17:55,900 --> 00:17:59,100 But, at the same time, even though I want those things, I 322 00:17:59,108 --> 00:18:02,700 don't want to compromise my ability to deliver the services 323 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:07,100 that I'm tasked with delivering. So, if you put me in charge of 324 00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:10,500 the system, if I can be the person who makes sure that that 325 00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:15,600 system is working, I own it. That is a potential solution to 326 00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:21,200 making me feel more secure and getting over this low trust 327 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,100 hurdle we talked about from a resistance standpoint. 328 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,900 Yeah, there are Movement right? Making them part of the process. 329 00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:29,100 Yeah. We got to be open to making 330 00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:31,200 changes based on feedback from that, too. 331 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,600 I think that's one thing to think about from from and I am 332 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:39,200 program perspective is to not be stuck on your path recognize 333 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,800 when there are changes and suggestions that are good, 334 00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:43,700 right? And will make things easier and 335 00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:47,100 will help with adoption. Don't be so regimented in your 336 00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:49,000 approach that this is the way we have to do it, right? 337 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,700 It's okay. Yeah, that's a great idea. 338 00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:52,100 Let's figure out how to incorporate that. 339 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,400 So if you involve the people, right and take Their feedback 340 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,800 and actually incorporate it that I think that helps drive that 341 00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,000 change as well. Yeah. 342 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,000 So the next one will hear is temporary fad and wasn't sure 343 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,700 how to associate this one but internet's a fad, you know what 344 00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:10,300 Jeff? I mean it's a good joke, right? 345 00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:12,500 Internet some fat obviously it doesn't make sense. 346 00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:17,100 Say the iPhone is a fact I think the first iPhone came out 12 347 00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:20,300 years ago, listen to Joe Rogan podcast. 348 00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:23,800 I'm not that I'm, I'm trying to advertise for another podcast, 349 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,700 right? But Jose he has a podcast. 350 00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:30,000 A lot of people tend to listen to it. 351 00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:34,300 Anyway the iPhones been out for 12 years think of how much it 352 00:19:34,300 --> 00:19:37,600 seems to have changed over the per day. 353 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,800 I mean in some ways, it's kind of the same thing, but in other 354 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,800 ways it's so much more advanced and you know I think in the I am 355 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,900 space there is like with open our minds to the fact that yeah, 356 00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:51,700 we're here every day and it doesn't seem like it's 357 00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:55,900 revolutionising overnight but we keep seeing These things pop up 358 00:19:56,700 --> 00:20:04,000 where you know for example there's like the the typing type 359 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,700 of multi-factor authentication so it's looking. 360 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:10,200 So is that something that's? Yeah, he sure. 361 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,500 Okay, Jay couldn't even think of the name of it. 362 00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:21,600 But yeah I mean to me and the only reason I'm bringing it up 363 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,200 is like is it a fad? Well, we don't know yet. 364 00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:28,700 But it's pretty good going to try to, you know, get your users 365 00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:30,900 to accept something out. The good thing about that 366 00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:34,300 product, is it really does need to be accepted by user is 367 00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:39,100 happening in the background. But you know, is this something 368 00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:40,700 that's going to be around for a long time? 369 00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:43,700 I don't know, or is it just a fad anyway so that way I'm going 370 00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:46,500 to skip that one because I don't think that's one of the main 371 00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:51,400 reasons for resistance, but when I think it comes, I am right? 372 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,900 I think there are some things that are relatively mature but 373 00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:58,000 there are components of I am that are still being worked out. 374 00:20:58,100 --> 00:21:00,400 You mentioned like the Biometrics right with the 375 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,000 keystroke one, you know. I think there's still people 376 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,700 searching for a reason to use blockchain. 377 00:21:04,900 --> 00:21:07,200 For example, right, is that a sad? 378 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,600 I don't know. It's pretty early, you know, you 379 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,800 know, I think that's a conversation that we might 380 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,100 tackle, you know, in a future episode in more detail. 381 00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:19,900 But I think there are components that are pretty solid 382 00:21:19,900 --> 00:21:22,300 fundamental, right automation? But I think there are some 383 00:21:22,300 --> 00:21:25,600 things where we're not sure yet. If it if it is a At or not, take 384 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,200 some time to bake. That's true. 385 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,200 That's true. And, you know, some things 386 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,000 around for five years, it's not considered a fat, I think, in 387 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,500 this space. But you think about the course 388 00:21:35,500 --> 00:21:39,800 of human history or the to do the course of computers. 389 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,300 Even, that's it's a blip right? Well, bottoms were popular in 390 00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:45,700 the 70s, right? And then I go, Who would wear 391 00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:48,200 those in the 80s and 90s and then they started to come back 392 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:49,400 again. So, right? 393 00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:53,300 It's cyclical. So, the next one on the list in 394 00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:57,400 this really good blog. Ugh is not being consulted and I 395 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,800 think this is something we see all the time where you know, 396 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,800 people feel like hey if I wasn't brought in to help to find the 397 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:09,800 problem and to find them solution then I'm not going to 398 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,000 agree with it but that's not always the case but I do see 399 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,600 that pop up a lot fact I'd say within our advisory Services 400 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,700 area. One of the things that we do say 401 00:22:19,100 --> 00:22:23,700 get lots of people involved if you're not sure involve them, at 402 00:22:23,700 --> 00:22:27,700 least get there. You of what is the problem, then 403 00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:31,300 they're more likely to be onboard with the solution 404 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,200 because I think that it's easy to go out when you're doing an 405 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,300 advisory sales pitch. For example, people want to know 406 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:43,200 what is it that you guys do and we say, well we put together a 407 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,700 strategy that's going to achieve by in the questions. 408 00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:48,500 Like well how are you going to do that? 409 00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:53,600 I think to get buy-in to the solution, people have to feel 410 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,800 like they were part. Part of the definition of the 411 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,400 problem. So you guys are the industry and 412 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,100 other words. So if I'm in the seat of one of 413 00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:03,600 these people, you guys are the industry experts. 414 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,900 And let me tell you about how things are here. 415 00:23:06,700 --> 00:23:11,500 What my problem is and what I want to see improved and then if 416 00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:17,700 you can come back later and say you said a b, c d, e f and 417 00:23:17,700 --> 00:23:20,600 here's how we're going to solve each one of those problems. 418 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,000 Okay. If I truly believe you're the 419 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,300 experts or at your What you're saying seems logical. 420 00:23:26,300 --> 00:23:29,400 And you well thought through and you give me an opportunity to 421 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,900 ask questions, I'll buy in because I was part of the / part 422 00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:36,000 of the definition of the problem. 423 00:23:36,300 --> 00:23:38,000 Yeah. It's that involvement, right 424 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,600 helps. So if they're part of that part 425 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,900 of that discussion, I think sometimes, you know, you just 426 00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:45,000 want people's voices to be heard, right? 427 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,900 And and maybe that's what they're looking for. 428 00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:49,100 To, did you take it? Did you take us into account? 429 00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:51,600 Or did you forget about us? And I think if you can 430 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,900 demonstrate that yeah you know what you were part of the part 431 00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:56,600 of the Process. You know we heard you and here's 432 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,200 how we're going to solve your specific problems. 433 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,600 I think that's a powerful message that comes out of the 434 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,300 program itself, right? Making sure that you know from a 435 00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:06,600 program management standpoint, you are listening to your 436 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,900 constituents, right? You're out there shaking hands, 437 00:24:10,300 --> 00:24:12,900 you know, kissing babies, all the stuff that you need to do on 438 00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:15,900 the politics politics side of, I am program management. 439 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,800 Making sure that people's voices are heard and that you're 440 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,800 recognizing that absolutely. So the next one is poor 441 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,600 communication. Probably is It's just, it's 442 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,800 self-evident, isn't it? When it comes to change 443 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,700 management, their hands fingers too much communication? 444 00:24:30,700 --> 00:24:34,500 I mean, what if what are some of your experiences with this? 445 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,800 Yeah, I mean it's a lot of it and I'll go back to, you know, 446 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,100 help desk days. Where what do you mean there's 447 00:24:40,100 --> 00:24:43,300 this new process, right? People aren't aware of it or oh, 448 00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:44,900 this is how we're doing this now. 449 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,500 I wasn't aware that this is, you know, the way that we reset our 450 00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:51,200 new passwords or, you know, things like that. 451 00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:53,500 How do I request access a lot of the stuff, you know. 452 00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:58,100 It's The communication needs to be pretty open and clear, but 453 00:24:58,100 --> 00:25:00,100 you have to make sure that your Communications are tailored for 454 00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:01,900 your audience, right? You're going to, you're going to 455 00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:04,600 talk a different way to your c-suite. 456 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,000 Your Executives, on how things are supposed to work versus 457 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,100 somebody who may be working on a line, right? 458 00:25:10,100 --> 00:25:15,300 So if you're bottling, you know, Windex and you need access to a 459 00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:16,900 terminal machine that's on that line. 460 00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:19,300 There's going to be a different communication style and approach 461 00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:22,600 because people have different levels of understanding between 462 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,400 what are the services you're providing. 463 00:25:24,500 --> 00:25:27,000 You know, how do they take advantage of those Services Etc. 464 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,400 So I think you need to make sure that when you're communicating 465 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,300 you're thinking about all of these different things and it 466 00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:35,800 stretches across the organization, I always used to 467 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,000 hate it. When people would throw things 468 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,600 in a production and it was okay you know IDM and you guys figure 469 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:42,600 out how you're going to support it. 470 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,800 Well, how come you didn't include us as part of that 471 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,600 process? We could help make sure that the 472 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,100 process you're thinking about actually do make sense in the 473 00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:52,200 real world. So you want to make sure that 474 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,300 you've got your Ops Team, you know, part of that. 475 00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:57,600 That part of that communication path as well, but make sure your 476 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,100 end users know about the services. 477 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:00,600 Right? I mean that that's going to help 478 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,500 the adoption as well, you know. Yeah, just make sure people know 479 00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:06,700 about it and I don't think anyone has ever complained about 480 00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:10,200 too much communication especially in an organization 481 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,400 where sometimes that there is not enough communication 482 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,400 historically, maybe not for your own project, but maybe for other 483 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,800 things, I think people just want to be informed great. 484 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:23,600 And this I think poor communication is really 485 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,700 highlighted when Talking about change resistance that's 486 00:26:27,700 --> 00:26:29,600 happening in the end user population. 487 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,800 So you're rolling out some kind of change a new single sign-on 488 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,900 system that's going to affect hundreds or thousands of people 489 00:26:36,900 --> 00:26:39,700 or, you know, I guess our case where you could be affecting 490 00:26:39,700 --> 00:26:42,600 millions of people and all of a sudden they end up on the 491 00:26:42,608 --> 00:26:44,000 screen, they don't know what to do. 492 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,600 And they don't feel like they knew this was coming, right? 493 00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:49,100 It's a bad experience. One of the things that this 494 00:26:49,100 --> 00:26:53,200 whole discussion reminded me of though, is that, you know, from 495 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,700 a project management Judgment standpoint. 496 00:26:55,700 --> 00:26:59,100 If you're managing an IM project one, you should have an 497 00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:02,200 organizational change management plan other words. 498 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,300 How are the changes that you're implementing going to affect 499 00:27:06,300 --> 00:27:09,000 your end, users? Not just your end users, but 500 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,500 every party that gets affected. I'm really trying to think of 501 00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:16,900 that, from a 360-degree perspective, the second thing is 502 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:23,300 usually in a more advanced sdlc. The communication plan is going 503 00:27:23,300 --> 00:27:25,500 to be separate from Word change plan. 504 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,800 So have a separate communication. 505 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,400 It just shows you how important communication is in that, you 506 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,400 know, the idea that you can't over communicate, there's no 507 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,000 such thing, right? And this isn't something that's 508 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,400 easy, right? Sometimes you mean I have, you 509 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,300 know, who you need to communicate to you, and you're 510 00:27:40,300 --> 00:27:43,200 going to have to, you know, talk with different folks and make 511 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,800 sure that you try and get as much feedback as possible, but 512 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,000 it's not an easy thing, but it's a necessary thing to have a 513 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,700 successful program, right? You know, I think there are a 514 00:27:52,708 --> 00:27:55,800 couple other other Good points in here, but I'm going to go 515 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,600 through them because we're getting a little long here 516 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,600 changes to routine. So that's impact of people. 517 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,500 He used to doing things a certain way and all of a sudden 518 00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:07,200 you're changing the way they have to do it, but they don't 519 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,900 see that changes beneficial to them or, you know, saving them 520 00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:13,300 time, or they like it better, for whatever reason. 521 00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:19,000 That can be, you know, you can please resistance, exhaustion 522 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,800 saturation. So, this is something big that 523 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,600 we've run into. I think with a lot of our 524 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,400 clients was that, There's so much change going on. 525 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,800 In the it environment and information workers are getting 526 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,900 like Deluge with new systems upgrades and things and they 527 00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:37,100 wind up spending a big part of their day. 528 00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:42,400 Just dealing with you know dealing with it change and then 529 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,000 you come along with one more thing and they're going to be 530 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,700 resistant to that because it's like stop, let's slow down. 531 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,700 I've got a job to do so I think that's where that part of 532 00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:55,000 change. Management. 533 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,800 Can or resistance to change can come up with I am changing the 534 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,000 Status Quo so resistance can also stem from perceptions of 535 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,000 the change that people hold for example people who feel that 536 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,600 they'll be worse off. At the end of the change are 537 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,500 unlikely to give their full support you know. 538 00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:16,700 There's a going back to that Pam example. 539 00:29:16,700 --> 00:29:20,300 Like you know if you don't see a problem with the way things are 540 00:29:20,300 --> 00:29:23,800 working today, if you're a system administrator and you log 541 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,300 into 1,000 servers, using the same. 542 00:29:26,300 --> 00:29:29,500 Username password. If not a problem for you. 543 00:29:29,700 --> 00:29:31,800 Yeah. How am I going to benefit from? 544 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,300 You locking my account in a vault and I don't know the 545 00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:37,400 password for it. How does that help me? 546 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,400 Write it helps you because it makes the organization more 547 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,300 secure and we're less likely that had been, you know, for to 548 00:29:45,300 --> 00:29:48,800 be your fault but, you know, we're less what so it's to look 549 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,000 for those reasons why, you know, changing the Status Quo actually 550 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,400 provides you better than the last One is benefits rewards, 551 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,300 which is that when people don't understand what is the benefit, 552 00:30:01,300 --> 00:30:06,400 whether it's kind of an intrinsic benefit or not, you 553 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,100 know, do how are they benefiting or how the organization 554 00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:14,800 benefiting when you're, you know, this, as far as I see, the 555 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,700 process is not better for me. So, what is the benefit? 556 00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:19,500 Why do I need this? What am I? 557 00:30:19,700 --> 00:30:21,900 What is the what is? Why is this good for me? 558 00:30:21,900 --> 00:30:24,100 I think that's really what it comes down to, right? 559 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,000 So why do I need to do this? I think there's it leaders. 560 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,400 We have to be open to the idea that we're going to Market. 561 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,900 Our are changes in our, you know, we're going to push change 562 00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:37,400 on the organization. We have to be open to the idea 563 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,600 that we're going to Market and convince people that it's 564 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,700 actually a good idea. I don't think we should be 565 00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:48,100 resistant to that, that thought. I think we should be willing to, 566 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,100 you know, take the time to really make sure that we 567 00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:54,200 understand the benefits, and that we are, you know, bounce. 568 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,800 Going up against the wall with people who can question them. 569 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,500 And then we go out to the broader audience and and Market 570 00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:05,300 that hey, this is going to provide a benefit to you or to 571 00:31:05,300 --> 00:31:08,600 the organization or to our customers and therefore, it's 572 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,300 worth. You putting up with the, you 573 00:31:11,300 --> 00:31:14,000 know, what you see is? The downside of the change, 574 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:14,600 right? Yeah. 575 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,900 And if you got data around that I think that helps to sometimes 576 00:31:17,900 --> 00:31:20,900 that you may not have something like oh this is going to save, 577 00:31:20,900 --> 00:31:24,200 you know, this much time or this much costs, you know? 578 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,300 On the way we do business, sometimes you can't calculate 579 00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:30,100 the benefits and it's things like, yeah, we just know that 580 00:31:30,100 --> 00:31:32,800 it's a better easier, more secure process, right? 581 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,900 Sometimes that's hard to calculate and sometimes it goes 582 00:31:34,900 --> 00:31:38,200 back to the right to the return on the investment, you know, the 583 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,300 side of it. But understanding that and 584 00:31:41,300 --> 00:31:43,500 selling it, I'm a big fan of treating. 585 00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:47,700 I am like a product, even if it's a product that is internal, 586 00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:50,000 right? Your customers are going to be 587 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,900 your co-workers, contractors vendors, whoever is sitting 588 00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:55,900 inside. Add the firewall so to speak, 589 00:31:55,900 --> 00:31:58,500 you know, not traditionally, true customers, who might be, 590 00:31:58,500 --> 00:32:00,700 you know, more of a b2c use case, right, where you're 591 00:32:00,900 --> 00:32:03,500 dealing with folks that are not working for your company, but if 592 00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:08,200 you can take the mindset of this is, this is my, I am product. 593 00:32:08,300 --> 00:32:11,100 I think that goes a long way to helping with a lot of these 594 00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:13,700 different areas, you know, communicating it understanding 595 00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:18,200 the benefits for of it before it and being able to Market it and 596 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,800 sell it to people and and you know, sometimes you need to take 597 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,200 a Grassroots approach to some time. 598 00:32:24,700 --> 00:32:27,500 Taking a top-down executive approach may not be as 599 00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:28,900 effective. Maybe you want to get some 600 00:32:28,900 --> 00:32:32,300 admins involved and say, hey, I know you're typically putting in 601 00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:36,100 a bunch of forms for, you know, adds and removes every week. 602 00:32:36,100 --> 00:32:38,300 What if I had a better way for you to do that, right? 603 00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:41,100 And you start working with folks on the ground level and help 604 00:32:41,100 --> 00:32:43,800 them understand the value. And you kind of tackle it from 605 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,700 both sides. I think sometimes that helps 606 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,700 helps get that benefit statement out there. 607 00:32:48,700 --> 00:32:50,800 So people understand why this is helpful for them. 608 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,200 I also like our neighboring bribery is a good one, okay? 609 00:32:54,300 --> 00:32:57,300 If you can well you I mean is it a jokingly? 610 00:32:57,300 --> 00:33:00,600 But you've had some thoughts. Killer ideas are some killer 611 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:05,200 experiences in terms of running contests and giving away, you 612 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:10,600 know, are pods or whatever having contests going to talk 613 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,600 about that a little bit? Yeah I mean so I think the one 614 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,200 that probably stands out the most for me would be you know we 615 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,100 launched a self-service password reset capability and the 616 00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:24,200 enrollment in the system was not where he wanted it to be. 617 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,600 Was pretty low as only like, 30 or 40 percent. 618 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,500 I think so we did was okay. Well, how do we solve that? 619 00:33:29,500 --> 00:33:33,300 I thought was okay. Well, iPad was new at the time, 620 00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:34,500 right? New technology. 621 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,000 It cost a few hundred bucks. It was like four or five hundred 622 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,200 bucks at the time. What if we gave away an iPad and 623 00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:42,800 to be eligible for that giveaway? 624 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,000 As part of a raffle, all you had to do was have your you know 625 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,100 voiceprint or your secret questions and answers. 626 00:33:49,100 --> 00:33:52,300 This is a long time ago and roles in the system and if you 627 00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:55,100 were enrolled by in the summer you know We have a raffle and 628 00:33:55,100 --> 00:33:56,700 give away an iPad or two or three, whatever. 629 00:33:56,700 --> 00:34:00,100 One. We saw a huge take you. 630 00:34:00,100 --> 00:34:02,600 No time. It was, it was something that 631 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,700 was of value enough that people were interested in, right? 632 00:34:06,700 --> 00:34:08,699 It wasn't like, oh, you get a free t-shirt, okay? 633 00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:10,400 Some people that might be motivated but most people 634 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,400 weren't so, you know, for that four or five hundred dollar 635 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,000 investment on an iPad. We went from like 40 percent 636 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,300 enrollment began this summer to like over 80 or close to 90% 637 00:34:20,300 --> 00:34:23,400 forget the exact number by the end of that summer. 638 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,000 And it was Excellent out of things to write working with 639 00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:29,600 folks who are taking the calls and say, hey did you know that 640 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,300 you could have done this, you know, your password reset your 641 00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:32,900 own? This time? 642 00:34:32,900 --> 00:34:35,800 Can I help you walk through? You know how to set that up. 643 00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:39,699 So if you're your first line support is aware of your 644 00:34:39,699 --> 00:34:43,199 processes and capabilities, you know, they can also help Market 645 00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:46,699 those to the others as well, but I think bribery is a great one. 646 00:34:47,699 --> 00:34:50,699 I'm a fan of it and sometimes it's super cost-effective if 647 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,100 it's something that's tolerated within your organization, doing 648 00:34:53,100 --> 00:34:55,800 giveaways like that. At, you know, you do lunch and 649 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,700 learns and brown bags and drives again treat. 650 00:34:58,700 --> 00:35:01,200 If you treat like a product, right? 651 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,600 Make it interesting for people and help them understand how 652 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,500 easy it is to use their services because hopefully you're 653 00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:10,400 developing services that are easy to use and you know on 654 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,300 obstructive as much as possible that'll help with the adoption 655 00:35:14,300 --> 00:35:15,100 of it. Yeah. 656 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,300 All right. Those are great ideas and great 657 00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:20,700 experiences, you know, Jeff but we keep doing this podcast. 658 00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:24,000 Nobody's going to need to hire us because pretty, give away all 659 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,700 of our Good ideas, that's fine. We're all in it together. 660 00:35:26,700 --> 00:35:28,800 I think, you know, one of the common things that I've heard 661 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,300 and read about in some of the feedback email. 662 00:35:31,300 --> 00:35:33,900 So, we've gotten is that, hey, I'm not alone, right? 663 00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:36,900 It's everyone struggles with this, if I am was easy, everyone 664 00:35:36,900 --> 00:35:39,900 would be doing it. And I think the stronger that we 665 00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:43,000 all collectively get on the, I Am side, there's enough change, 666 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,700 right? I'm willing to adapt my skills 667 00:35:44,700 --> 00:35:47,400 and understand new technologies, and that's part of our job, 668 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,000 right? Is understanding what's next? 669 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,700 But, you know, I think it just drives security, and It's 670 00:35:54,700 --> 00:35:57,700 something that I certainly enjoy having these conversations 671 00:35:57,700 --> 00:35:59,700 around because I'm always curious what is next, right? 672 00:35:59,700 --> 00:36:02,500 I've probably asked before. What's the next interface look 673 00:36:02,500 --> 00:36:04,300 like? Is it voice, is it? 674 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,700 You know some sort of machine learning that knows what I want 675 00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:09,400 before I want it is it some you know tied to some sort of 676 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,000 biometric I don't know right? There's probably options are on 677 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,600 all those is the technology there yet to support it. 678 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,600 And probably not at least not on a scale and a cost level. 679 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,500 It makes sense but there's always something at the me 680 00:36:21,500 --> 00:36:24,200 change and you know that feedback of you're not alone. 681 00:36:24,300 --> 00:36:27,600 And it's certainly one that resonates to out there. 682 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,800 Well, yeah, I love the fan mail that we've been getting out, you 683 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,900 know, every time I call it than male or female. 684 00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:38,200 So, weird to say, don't say that fan mail, I know you can't and 685 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:43,500 so but no the mailbag idea and getting feedback certainly 686 00:36:43,500 --> 00:36:45,900 appreciate. So if you're out there, drop us 687 00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:49,900 a line, even just a list of you're loosening but also 688 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,800 anything that you'd like us to discuss in future episodes or 689 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,100 Any observations you made anything? 690 00:36:56,100 --> 00:36:58,900 We've talked about that, you'd like us to share. 691 00:36:59,500 --> 00:37:04,300 We'd love to hear from you. And it really helps to keep us 692 00:37:04,300 --> 00:37:07,800 going to know that people actually value what we're doing. 693 00:37:08,100 --> 00:37:10,700 Now, that's what the two is that you're talking to her in our, in 694 00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:12,600 our dark basements, or rooms where with them. 695 00:37:24,300 --> 00:37:27,300 Recording anyway, yes we are. We're going, we're doing it for 696 00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:29,300 the people, it's For the Love of the Game. 697 00:37:30,700 --> 00:37:33,300 It'll be interesting to see how you do it but our next couple. 698 00:37:33,300 --> 00:37:35,200 Yeah, we're on the road. I think four straight weeks so 699 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,900 that'll be interesting, but at least we'll be in the same room 700 00:37:38,900 --> 00:37:40,600 and we'll have to see how it goes. 701 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,900 But yeah, the plan is to definitely put content out there 702 00:37:43,300 --> 00:37:44,900 every week. Still, like we've been doing for 703 00:37:44,900 --> 00:37:48,700 12 weeks in a row, which I think a milestone for us, it is nice, 704 00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:51,700 when that's what 14 weeks is a quarter. 705 00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:55,900 So I think our next one is going to be Really truly, Which 706 00:37:56,100 --> 00:38:01,200 business is this episode 12 or do we release episode 12 today? 707 00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:05,400 Episode 11 went live today and we're yeah, we're typically a 708 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,200 week ahead. We're so now we're pulling back 709 00:38:07,300 --> 00:38:09,600 the curtain a little bit breaking down that fourth wall. 710 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,400 We're typically recording a week in advance, which is, you know, 711 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,800 smart as if I do say so. Because, you know, we are on the 712 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,300 road, sometimes it's difficult to get, you know, time to be 713 00:38:19,300 --> 00:38:22,100 able to put out, a decent recording and something that we 714 00:38:22,100 --> 00:38:24,100 think might be interesting, but this would be a good challenge. 715 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,100 A sex couple weeks, right? Yeah. 716 00:38:26,100 --> 00:38:28,300 Well, it should be putting that out there. 717 00:38:28,500 --> 00:38:32,100 I'd like to hear feedback from, you know, our listeners, 718 00:38:32,100 --> 00:38:36,800 especially those of us who are. I am practitioners to say, okay? 719 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,800 What is the type of content? You think you'd get the most 720 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,400 value out of his conversation? Like we had today where we pick 721 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,000 on something like resistance to change and kind of give it the I 722 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:54,000 am slant is it hearing product? You know, talking to folks who 723 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,800 are We're kind of in the field with product companies or you 724 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,600 know doing implementations who can talk about their specific 725 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,400 spot in the world and maybe their company. 726 00:39:05,700 --> 00:39:09,100 Is it a combination of those two things you just like here in Jim 727 00:39:09,100 --> 00:39:12,600 and Geoff, ramble, whatever kind of feedback you could provide 728 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,200 like that I think would love to hear. 729 00:39:14,500 --> 00:39:18,200 Yeah definitely and you can send it to questions at identity at 730 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,300 the center.com, definitely read. All the emails that come through 731 00:39:21,500 --> 00:39:23,700 and look forward to hearing that feedback. 732 00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:26,700 So, I think that's a pretty good spot to leave it for this week. 733 00:39:26,900 --> 00:39:31,300 I will put a link to the blog that Jim referred to in the show 734 00:39:31,300 --> 00:39:33,700 notes. And before I forget, you were 735 00:39:33,700 --> 00:39:37,700 talking about the 10 pitfalls thing earlier, and one of our 736 00:39:37,700 --> 00:39:40,100 slides, we actually have an e-book around that, that, that 737 00:39:40,100 --> 00:39:42,700 we did last year. So I'll put a link to that as 738 00:39:42,700 --> 00:39:46,600 well in the show notes and I think that's pretty good. 739 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,800 We'll call it for this week. Thanks, Jim. 740 00:39:49,100 --> 00:39:55,600 And thank you all for listening. Listening to the identity at the 741 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,700 center podcast to access all episodes visit identity at the 742 00:39:59,700 --> 00:40:00,800 center.com.