1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:11,000 This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with I 2 00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:17,960 AM, this is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and 3 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:23,120 Jeff Steadman. Welcome to the Identity at the 4 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,200 Center podcast. I'm Jeff and that's Jim. 5 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,200 Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff, how are you? 6 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,850 Oh, not so bad yourself. Doing pretty good, man. 7 00:00:30,850 --> 00:00:33,530 I feel like I've been the road warrior. 8 00:00:34,050 --> 00:00:38,370 I really haven't traveled between June and about a week 9 00:00:38,370 --> 00:00:42,450 ago, but now it's two weeks in a row, about to be 3 weeks in a 10 00:00:42,450 --> 00:00:44,450 row. We're doing Authenticate 11 00:00:44,450 --> 00:00:48,250 conference on Monday. I'm sitting here in a hotel, 12 00:00:48,250 --> 00:00:52,570 airport or airport Hotel in Calgary, Canada. 13 00:00:53,810 --> 00:00:56,090 Had a great week here. It's a beautiful country, 14 00:00:56,090 --> 00:00:59,090 beautiful people. Everyone's been like. 15 00:00:59,660 --> 00:01:05,140 So friendly, which I mean, I don't even want to say that in 16 00:01:05,140 --> 00:01:07,660 the United States people are just friendly that would that's 17 00:01:07,660 --> 00:01:10,020 not. Canadians are famous for their 18 00:01:10,420 --> 00:01:12,140 friendliness, I think. I think that's kind of a known 19 00:01:12,140 --> 00:01:14,380 thing. It's definitely. 20 00:01:14,500 --> 00:01:16,620 It's definitely how I felt since I've been here. 21 00:01:17,260 --> 00:01:19,060 That's that's got some truth to it. 22 00:01:19,620 --> 00:01:24,180 But yeah, living out of the suitcases is not all glamour. 23 00:01:24,740 --> 00:01:26,620 Three whole weeks. That's rookie numbers, baby. 24 00:01:27,060 --> 00:01:30,770 I'm on like. Week 7 about to be 8 and going 25 00:01:30,770 --> 00:01:34,250 on to like 12. Yeah, So what I'm doing is 26 00:01:34,250 --> 00:01:38,010 though contiguous weeks like including the weekend. 27 00:01:38,610 --> 00:01:43,530 So I left on the 1st, I'll get home on the 19th And what I 28 00:01:43,530 --> 00:01:47,050 think is here's the way I was looking at it, like I finish up. 29 00:01:48,370 --> 00:01:52,050 So I was here in Canada working on a workshop. 30 00:01:52,250 --> 00:01:56,390 It ended yesterday and. So I had the choice to, you 31 00:01:56,390 --> 00:02:01,270 know, fly out tomorrow morning, go back to Atlanta and then have 32 00:02:01,270 --> 00:02:02,910 to go out to San Diego on Sunday. 33 00:02:02,910 --> 00:02:07,790 So basically have just like one full day at home or just go to 34 00:02:07,790 --> 00:02:11,910 San Diego early and get there, go to the pool and hopefully 35 00:02:11,910 --> 00:02:17,750 they've got like a tiki bar that makes pina coladas that you know 36 00:02:17,830 --> 00:02:20,620 will keep me happy. I think he chose wisely. 37 00:02:20,660 --> 00:02:23,620 I I had to come home because I literally had to just restock my 38 00:02:23,620 --> 00:02:26,860 entire suitcase. I've been gone all week as well, 39 00:02:26,860 --> 00:02:32,060 Sunday through Friday. So today is October 13th. 40 00:02:32,060 --> 00:02:34,940 It's 11:00 PM Eastern Time. This is how you and I roll 41 00:02:35,420 --> 00:02:38,660 trying to get something out for next Monday, which would be 42 00:02:38,660 --> 00:02:41,780 what, the 14th, 15th, 16th first day of authenticate. 43 00:02:42,350 --> 00:02:45,950 This, this show is actually going to compete with us because 44 00:02:45,950 --> 00:02:48,470 we'll be in the probably in the middle of a keynote doing a live 45 00:02:48,470 --> 00:02:51,430 show at Authenticate. But I had to come home. 46 00:02:51,430 --> 00:02:54,990 I needed a day to, like, reload my suitcase for yet another full 47 00:02:54,990 --> 00:02:57,830 week of travel. See my dogs. 48 00:02:58,150 --> 00:02:59,510 My wife's out of time. She's traveling. 49 00:02:59,510 --> 00:03:02,470 So, like, coordinating, she drove to the airport, left my 50 00:03:02,470 --> 00:03:05,070 car there. I got home a couple hours ago, 51 00:03:05,870 --> 00:03:08,310 picked up the car, went home and then I'm going to come back 52 00:03:09,270 --> 00:03:12,310 early Sunday morning. Drop my car off there and then 53 00:03:12,310 --> 00:03:14,310 she's gonna pick up the car on Monday on the way back. 54 00:03:15,350 --> 00:03:17,750 So we're doing this. Whole shuffle game when you get 55 00:03:17,870 --> 00:03:21,270 home The dogs who bonkers right? Two of them did. 56 00:03:21,390 --> 00:03:23,590 The third one acknowledged my existence. 57 00:03:23,630 --> 00:03:26,110 Definitely my wife's dog, our newest puppy. 58 00:03:27,390 --> 00:03:29,830 He was happy. I let him out of his crate and 59 00:03:29,830 --> 00:03:32,230 then it was like, immediately gashed around the house looking 60 00:03:32,230 --> 00:03:34,870 to see where mom was, and I was very disappointed that it was 61 00:03:34,870 --> 00:03:37,550 just me. But the other two were happy to 62 00:03:37,550 --> 00:03:39,120 see me. Yeah, I know. 63 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,160 I mean, like if if your dogs aren't happy to see you after 64 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,080 you've been gone for a week, then you're not a good person. 65 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,920 That's true. Dogs are the best people. 66 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:49,960 I'm a big dog fan. I think people who have dogs 67 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,200 know it and get it. It's like they're always happy 68 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,800 to see you when you come home. Yeah, no, I mean, I love dogs. 69 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,440 And the only reason I don't have a dog is because, I mean, I 70 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,840 travel not nearly as much as you, Jeff, but don't have 71 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,360 anybody at home who I could, you know? 72 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,640 Count on taking care of a dog and cleaning up after the dog 73 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:14,240 and feeding the dog. So yeah, I mean, checking a dog 74 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,240 into a kennel every week is not not very fair. 75 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,560 Yeah, that's not cool. Yeah, we don't do that either. 76 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,720 So I get it. I totally get it. 77 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,520 So I've been busy. I mean, you know, not this week, 78 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,440 but last week was the Octane conference in San Francisco. 79 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,120 How was? Well, well, first let me just 80 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,320 comment San Francisco. I love San Francisco. 81 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,200 I've been the biggest San Francisco fan for a long time. 82 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,160 And, you know, I think that there's been some things over 83 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:48,320 the years that, you know, have kind of put certain parts of it 84 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,520 in decline. Let's talk about the Moscone 85 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,560 Center. And they've really done a lot 86 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,080 to, you know, kind of have a police presence. 87 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:01,320 So for me anyway, I felt very safe, you know, walking around 88 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,320 that area and walking from the hotel and to the center, so. 89 00:05:06,130 --> 00:05:08,850 Drastic improvement, I think, even from last year. 90 00:05:10,090 --> 00:05:15,570 But the the most remarkable thing was it was 90 degrees in 91 00:05:15,570 --> 00:05:18,090 the city of San Francisco in October. 92 00:05:18,890 --> 00:05:22,570 I don't think I've ever been in San Francisco and it was 90 93 00:05:22,570 --> 00:05:24,050 degrees before. And I've. 94 00:05:24,090 --> 00:05:26,660 Been there a lot of times. Especially for being on the Bay, 95 00:05:26,660 --> 00:05:29,020 it's generally a little bit cooler compared to the rest, 96 00:05:29,020 --> 00:05:31,860 which is why I like it so much. Yeah, they have those 97 00:05:31,860 --> 00:05:35,900 microclimates out there. But so like in the East Bay, 98 00:05:36,180 --> 00:05:40,460 Oakland, it could be 9095 degrees and the downtown San 99 00:05:40,460 --> 00:05:45,380 Francisco could be 55 degrees. Or on the Bay could be like, you 100 00:05:45,380 --> 00:05:48,700 know, freezing and windy. It was not windy and it was 101 00:05:48,700 --> 00:05:52,020 definitely not cold. And so I was expecting to have 102 00:05:52,020 --> 00:05:53,560 to. Wear a jacket. 103 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,120 But you know, as I was walking around the jacket, I was like 104 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,040 breaking in a sweat. Yeah, that's that's not my gym. 105 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,480 I'm glad I was in DC that week. It was hot there. 106 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,080 But I don't know, I was inside pretty much the entire time at a 107 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,640 Convention Center doing stuff like that. 108 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,960 So you were at Octane. I was at Identity Week America. 109 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:12,920 Sounds like we both had a good time. 110 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,240 I know I had a good time. We recorded a couple episodes, 111 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:16,920 actually recorded three episodes while I was out there. 112 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,480 I just had time. I mean, you know, First off, 113 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,800 like the energy level at Octane was off the charts. 114 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,640 And so I had an opportunity to sit with a lot of folks and 115 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,240 record, you know, interviews. I'm going to get this uploaded. 116 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,920 You're going to piece them all together into some kind of I'm? 117 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,360 Going to try to, I'm curious to see what you actually did. 118 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,760 You sent me a text with someone with kind of one of the 119 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,160 interviews and say, all right, this is not actually too bad, so 120 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:47,560 we'll see what the final product turns out. 121 00:06:49,010 --> 00:06:52,010 My expectation is that was the worst of of the bunch because 122 00:06:52,010 --> 00:06:55,450 it's kind of figuring out more as I was going along so. 123 00:06:55,770 --> 00:06:57,650 I heard you got Daniel on camera too. 124 00:06:58,330 --> 00:07:00,370 I did get Daniel. We've been trying to get Daniel 125 00:07:00,370 --> 00:07:03,530 on the show. He's he's our boss and he's been 126 00:07:03,530 --> 00:07:05,570 elusive. He did a really good job. 127 00:07:05,610 --> 00:07:07,850 Yeah, he's great. I. 128 00:07:07,850 --> 00:07:11,210 You know, the one thing that he did was so I had these lavalier 129 00:07:11,210 --> 00:07:15,120 microphones and he. You know, it's like he was 130 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,200 leaving to go to the airport and he like, he had my lavalier mic 131 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,720 on and I didn't realize it until like 2-3 minutes later and I got 132 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,960 my next guest coming in a few minutes. 133 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,400 I'm like, Oh my God. And I'm like texting him. 134 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,320 He's not answering that. I try and call him because the 135 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,280 voicemail I'm like, what am I going to do? 136 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,920 I'm like basically going to have to take my my one room meeting 137 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,080 lavalier mic and pass it back and forth. 138 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,600 Fortunately, they call me back and. 139 00:07:42,390 --> 00:07:45,070 Brought back the the microphone. So it all worked out. 140 00:07:45,510 --> 00:07:48,190 But you know the conference was super high energy. 141 00:07:50,190 --> 00:07:53,430 You know one of the they had a few big announcements, the 142 00:07:53,430 --> 00:07:57,470 biggest announcement was kind of like all around bringing a I 143 00:07:57,470 --> 00:08:00,030 into the product and how it's going to manifest. 144 00:08:00,350 --> 00:08:04,710 And so one of those was what they're calling ITP, Identity 145 00:08:04,710 --> 00:08:07,630 Threat Protection, and essentially it's, you know, 146 00:08:07,630 --> 00:08:13,920 using the A I lever to a I. Leveraging the a I technology to 147 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:18,240 you know work with this big data that they're collecting to you 148 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,320 know recognize patterns. So applying a model to recognize 149 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,200 patterns, that would be something that would say you 150 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,920 want to then trigger an action like disable that account. 151 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,120 Then they've got some other features that rolling out which 152 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,600 sound less impressive, but when it all plugs together it makes 153 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,799 sense. Like big enough some route 154 00:08:36,799 --> 00:08:39,830 single log out. Which I think is a little bit 155 00:08:39,830 --> 00:08:42,429 proprietary. But if you think about it, it's 156 00:08:42,429 --> 00:08:47,110 like if you realize like oh, Jeff's account has been 157 00:08:47,110 --> 00:08:51,310 compromised, maybe someone saw his session cookie and is now, 158 00:08:51,630 --> 00:08:54,910 you know, log in and trying to do bad things this time maybe he 159 00:08:55,150 --> 00:08:57,030 clicked on the phishing e-mail, etcetera. 160 00:08:57,350 --> 00:09:00,710 We can not only disable his account, but close all the 161 00:09:00,710 --> 00:09:04,310 sessions that are open in other applications. 162 00:09:04,470 --> 00:09:06,270 And that's a really big deal because. 163 00:09:06,940 --> 00:09:10,380 You know, I mean, even a client that I'm currently working with, 164 00:09:11,060 --> 00:09:15,100 I found out that, you know, they leave really long session 165 00:09:15,100 --> 00:09:17,340 timeouts. And that's one of the the 166 00:09:17,340 --> 00:09:24,180 biggest forms of, you know, hijacking A person's, you know, 167 00:09:24,180 --> 00:09:25,980 they're all sitting in their credential, but they get these 168 00:09:25,980 --> 00:09:30,100 session cookies, they can bypass MFA and get logged in as that 169 00:09:30,100 --> 00:09:32,820 person. So if that session isn't timed 170 00:09:32,820 --> 00:09:37,360 out now if you're giving. 30 days, 60 days, 180 days for that 171 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,320 session to live. I think that's the maximum in in 172 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,840 Octa anyway. But think about that, someone 173 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,520 could take that session, that cookie could be that old, they 174 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:52,000 could use it to get in. So overall, like really, like 175 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,880 that was something I think every one of the folk, every one of 176 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,760 the people there was like really excited about. 177 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,600 Because when you think about the current capabilities within the 178 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,240 tool, it's kind of a black box. And you don't know what it's 179 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,560 doing. This is looks like it's going to 180 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:11,720 be much more exposed to the people have some levers and can 181 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,760 kind of see how it's making the decisions or what decisions are 182 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:17,960 being made. Yeah, I think you need to be 183 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,280 able to tune it somehow. Authentication is kind of a very 184 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,280 tricky thing, I think, especially when you're trying to 185 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,560 fingerprint essentially what is a valid authentication session 186 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,440 versus not valid considering the number of devices and. 187 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,920 Locations and times of days and things like that. 188 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,360 So it'll be interesting. I feel a little bit vindicated 189 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,760 that you said AI at Octa because there was definitely a theme at 190 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,680 sale point Navigate this week, AI being injected into the sale 191 00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:47,800 point product as well. I feel like I called this a 192 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:49,800 couple months back. I'm sure they were working on it 193 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,200 before that, but I'm gonna take credit anyway. 194 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,120 AI seems to be AI. I'm taking credit for all AI, 195 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,680 good or bad, bring it on. No, I just think that you know 196 00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:02,360 it's a natural evolution, right of the identity products and 197 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:07,040 large language models are sort of the AI Dujuur and they're 198 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,120 graduating from historically AI being machine machine learning 199 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,680 or pattern matching and things like that to now you can 200 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:19,800 actually talk in quotation marks right type to the AI to ask 201 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:21,920 specific questions, generate reports. 202 00:11:23,610 --> 00:11:26,650 Help with configurations of applications, things like that. 203 00:11:27,730 --> 00:11:29,410 Microsoft is certainly getting the game with things like 204 00:11:29,410 --> 00:11:34,210 Copilot, but AI was a big focus as well at the sale point 205 00:11:34,210 --> 00:11:36,530 Navigate conference, which is where I was all week. 206 00:11:38,290 --> 00:11:41,530 I think a conference, a vendor specific conference where they 207 00:11:41,570 --> 00:11:45,210 didn't talk about AI and their product would be a major miss at 208 00:11:45,210 --> 00:11:46,330 this point. Yeah. 209 00:11:46,330 --> 00:11:47,850 It's like 0 trust of the last couple of years. 210 00:11:47,850 --> 00:11:51,010 If your product didn't have zero trust in it, you're pretty much 211 00:11:51,010 --> 00:11:53,080 done for. Yeah, now it's and now 212 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,160 everything's a I. So I wonder if this was the same 213 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,040 thing at South Point, but at at Octa, they kind of laid out 214 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:05,080 their road map both on the the customer cloud as well as the 215 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,080 Workforce cloud. There's a lot of new 216 00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:10,160 functionality that they're promising. 217 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,800 I mean really on the, on the workforce side, it's like that 218 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,520 converged identity. So it's access management which 219 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,720 they're already kind of like top dog. 220 00:12:21,770 --> 00:12:26,690 There's IGA privilege access management, cloud infrastructure 221 00:12:26,690 --> 00:12:30,810 inside of management. It's like the way I see it like 222 00:12:30,810 --> 00:12:33,290 for them to be successful in that they have two choices. 223 00:12:33,290 --> 00:12:36,490 One is to go out and buy somebody for each one of those 224 00:12:36,490 --> 00:12:39,930 things. The other is spend a lot of 225 00:12:39,930 --> 00:12:43,490 money on R&D. But the last thing, the the 226 00:12:43,490 --> 00:12:47,010 thing that I want to make sure that like hopefully they don't 227 00:12:47,010 --> 00:12:49,610 do is they just talk about these things that roll out like. 228 00:12:50,590 --> 00:12:54,550 Not a very good version of it because I think that would kind 229 00:12:54,550 --> 00:12:59,510 of stain them the brand because I mean you know you have to, if 230 00:12:59,510 --> 00:13:02,390 you're going to say we're going to have something, you got to 231 00:13:02,390 --> 00:13:04,910 have it. Yeah, I think that that 232 00:13:04,910 --> 00:13:07,190 convergence is another word that came up as well. 233 00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:09,830 Now we're starting to see the rise of platforms. 234 00:13:10,390 --> 00:13:12,670 You know, Octa's creating one sale point definitely is 235 00:13:12,670 --> 00:13:15,990 creating one. This this idea of converged 236 00:13:16,030 --> 00:13:18,580 identity or? You know, whatever you want to 237 00:13:18,580 --> 00:13:21,460 call it, unified identity platforms, things like that. 238 00:13:21,740 --> 00:13:26,060 Kind of brings me back to the old days of Oracle and IBM and 239 00:13:26,060 --> 00:13:29,740 CA where that was platforms. Then it became best to breed. 240 00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:31,940 And then guess what? We're back to bell bottoms 241 00:13:31,940 --> 00:13:34,140 again. You know, I hit back to bell 242 00:13:34,140 --> 00:13:37,660 bottoms, yet, you know, I don't think those things like Oracle 243 00:13:37,660 --> 00:13:41,020 CA are deserving of the term platform. 244 00:13:41,020 --> 00:13:43,700 I think they're sweets. They're just a bunch of products 245 00:13:43,700 --> 00:13:45,740 that they put under the umbrella. 246 00:13:46,190 --> 00:13:49,430 And I hope that's not what Octa Cell Point and all these others 247 00:13:49,470 --> 00:13:50,710 do. I hope they build a platform. 248 00:13:50,950 --> 00:13:54,910 To me, a platform is something that has some open like an 249 00:13:54,950 --> 00:14:00,150 openness factor to it, so that entrepreneurs can go out and 250 00:14:00,150 --> 00:14:05,630 build addons to that platform. And so they create almost like a 251 00:14:06,070 --> 00:14:10,070 an opportunity like a business model like build your business 252 00:14:10,390 --> 00:14:14,790 around our platform, make sales forces on that I think some. 253 00:14:15,220 --> 00:14:17,460 Social media platforms have done that, so. 254 00:14:17,620 --> 00:14:19,620 Service now. What's that? 255 00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:24,060 Service now is another one. Service now is exactly, exactly 256 00:14:24,660 --> 00:14:28,900 to me that's a platform and I think just saying like oh, you 257 00:14:28,900 --> 00:14:32,900 know, we're going to be a closed platform, I think that almost 258 00:14:32,900 --> 00:14:34,980 disqualifies you from the term platform. 259 00:14:35,420 --> 00:14:37,900 Well, good news. Sale point is not going to be a 260 00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:40,220 closed platform, at least not in the future. 261 00:14:40,620 --> 00:14:43,860 They did mention sometime in the next couple years allowing. 262 00:14:44,380 --> 00:14:46,140 People to develop like basically like plugins. 263 00:14:46,140 --> 00:14:48,660 It's almost like they're creating the browser and they're 264 00:14:48,660 --> 00:14:51,500 gonna have some sort of browser plugin architecture that lets 265 00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:54,260 you do different things with the data that's in there. 266 00:14:54,460 --> 00:14:57,340 Very API heavy meaning which is a good thing. 267 00:14:57,340 --> 00:14:59,740 I think you can do a lot with the APIs that are out there. 268 00:14:59,740 --> 00:15:04,380 So it'll be interesting to see kind of what happens with the 269 00:15:04,380 --> 00:15:08,140 sale point platform, cuz that's to me where they're headed and 270 00:15:08,140 --> 00:15:09,980 what they were kind of talking about all week. 271 00:15:11,580 --> 00:15:16,650 Yeah, I think that. You know, again I GA is like a 272 00:15:16,650 --> 00:15:20,930 great starting point to build an identity platform from because I 273 00:15:20,930 --> 00:15:25,650 really think that I GA all the kind of like core identity 274 00:15:25,650 --> 00:15:30,130 technologies truly has its arms around identity or it's the 275 00:15:30,130 --> 00:15:35,730 closest thing I think when you look at your authentication 276 00:15:35,730 --> 00:15:38,130 system. They're calling it like, oh, 277 00:15:38,130 --> 00:15:41,130 it's an identity. It's identity as a service, but 278 00:15:41,410 --> 00:15:43,850 I think it's almost like accounts as a service. 279 00:15:44,570 --> 00:15:46,610 Like those are accounts. Like you can have multiple 280 00:15:47,050 --> 00:15:50,610 accounts for signing on, but you still just have one identity. 281 00:15:51,810 --> 00:15:54,530 Well, I think I GA is the hardest thing to do in Identity 282 00:15:54,730 --> 00:15:56,930 to do it well. I mean, like, I think that's the 283 00:15:56,930 --> 00:16:01,170 one that has the most complexity involved with it and there 284 00:16:01,210 --> 00:16:04,050 aren't really standards if you think about it from an IGA 285 00:16:04,050 --> 00:16:06,820 perspective. Yes, there's like common things 286 00:16:06,820 --> 00:16:09,540 like onboarding and offboarding and access reviews and access 287 00:16:09,540 --> 00:16:13,380 requests, but other than Skim, there really isn't like a 288 00:16:13,380 --> 00:16:16,420 standard to do any of that stuff on the authentication side. 289 00:16:16,420 --> 00:16:19,260 You got Oauth, you got Sam O, you got Open ID Connect, right, 290 00:16:19,260 --> 00:16:22,460 stuff like that. And it's very it's a very 291 00:16:22,580 --> 00:16:24,300 specific path. You file Okay, I need to 292 00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:26,700 authenticate and then once I authenticate then I can get to 293 00:16:26,700 --> 00:16:27,980 this thing with an authorization. 294 00:16:28,540 --> 00:16:31,540 I GA throws in a whole bunch of complexities in there, 295 00:16:31,540 --> 00:16:34,260 especially from a business rules perspective. 296 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,120 So I feel like if I were to build an identity product, I 297 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:43,000 would start with IGA, lock that down, and then try to expand 298 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,360 from there. Problem with that approach ends 299 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,320 up being, well, everybody's already solved the 300 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,760 authentication problem. So now, yeah, is it easier to 301 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,120 get in from a sales perspective if I'm trying to sell this 302 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,640 product, if everyone's already using a different authentication 303 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,800 platform and trying to migrate people off of that? 304 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:03,780 I don't have the answer. But it used to be interesting to 305 00:17:03,780 --> 00:17:05,780 see how octo and sale point have gone different directions with 306 00:17:05,780 --> 00:17:09,060 it, or approach to say from different directions. 307 00:17:09,579 --> 00:17:12,819 How did you used to think of Active Directory not talking 308 00:17:12,819 --> 00:17:16,300 Azure Active Directory? Did you think of it as Identity 309 00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:24,060 system or as like I had one coworker in the past who used to 310 00:17:24,060 --> 00:17:25,579 call it. He's like it's just a network 311 00:17:25,579 --> 00:17:28,820 operating system and we saw that's a bit more than just a 312 00:17:28,820 --> 00:17:32,430 network operating system. It's also an authentication 313 00:17:32,430 --> 00:17:35,070 system, but they don't think those are. 314 00:17:35,830 --> 00:17:39,670 It's an identity system, yeah. And I kind of look at Azure AD 315 00:17:39,950 --> 00:17:42,870 and I'm like, OK, so a lot of similarity from that 316 00:17:42,870 --> 00:17:45,430 perspective. It's, is it really tracking the 317 00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:47,110 identity? But now there's the, you know, 318 00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:50,550 they're starting to expand into or you're pulling it from the HR 319 00:17:50,550 --> 00:17:54,030 system. But are they correlating all the 320 00:17:54,030 --> 00:17:58,310 accounts to that identity? Because ultimately it's like. 321 00:17:58,780 --> 00:18:00,460 Right. When Jeff separates from the 322 00:18:00,460 --> 00:18:04,220 organization or he shutting off all the accounts that he has 323 00:18:04,220 --> 00:18:06,820 access to, that's really what it comes down to. 324 00:18:08,660 --> 00:18:12,540 I used to, I mean, for me a D and the role that I've had when 325 00:18:12,540 --> 00:18:15,060 I've been around AD. Closest was it was 326 00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:16,980 authentication and authorization. 327 00:18:17,620 --> 00:18:20,820 That was pretty much it. Yes, backbone for other things 328 00:18:20,820 --> 00:18:24,740 within Windows Server. But for me as an identity 329 00:18:24,740 --> 00:18:27,100 person, it's authentication and it's authorization. 330 00:18:28,290 --> 00:18:30,210 I think that I feel the same way. 331 00:18:30,210 --> 00:18:35,730 I think that tactically speaking, though, the folks who 332 00:18:35,730 --> 00:18:42,530 run a D in organizations have wound up becoming so central to 333 00:18:42,970 --> 00:18:47,130 how identity is handled within the organization, said. 334 00:18:47,130 --> 00:18:51,930 This is the tool that I know I love and it's our identity 335 00:18:51,930 --> 00:18:56,420 system and we're going to plug. Azure AD on top of it, which I 336 00:18:56,420 --> 00:18:59,340 guess is not even the the current term for it and and 337 00:18:59,340 --> 00:19:02,620 that's what we do for identity. But we don't need an IGA. 338 00:19:02,660 --> 00:19:07,260 We don't need any external third party systems. 339 00:19:07,860 --> 00:19:08,700 We don't need. I don't know if. 340 00:19:08,740 --> 00:19:12,220 Access Management because Azure gives us from which Access 341 00:19:12,220 --> 00:19:15,780 management. Well, I to to some degree, I 342 00:19:15,780 --> 00:19:18,460 think it's, you know if we start talking about now we're back to 343 00:19:18,460 --> 00:19:20,300 platforms, right? Microsoft has their own platform 344 00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:24,260 too, and. It's good at Microsoft things, 345 00:19:24,540 --> 00:19:27,740 but once you get outside of Microsoft things, it's not so 346 00:19:27,740 --> 00:19:30,580 great with the exception of authentication. 347 00:19:30,780 --> 00:19:34,380 They've definitely embraced standards like Oauth and Open ID 348 00:19:34,380 --> 00:19:38,660 Connect and so forth right to do authentication, but I'm not 349 00:19:38,660 --> 00:19:42,340 going to do ASAP Access review with Microsoft Ventra. 350 00:19:43,180 --> 00:19:45,980 That would be crazy. But they're so good at 351 00:19:45,980 --> 00:19:48,660 marketing, it sounds like almost like you could and you should. 352 00:19:50,220 --> 00:19:51,540 That's interesting, you bring up that. 353 00:19:51,970 --> 00:19:56,370 SAP Access reviews, because I was working with the client this 354 00:19:56,370 --> 00:20:03,450 week to develop an IGA strategy and so of course they are in the 355 00:20:03,770 --> 00:20:11,290 throes of deploying SAP for HR and for their ERP. 356 00:20:11,450 --> 00:20:14,250 That should be a Big Bang. And you know, fortunately, from 357 00:20:14,250 --> 00:20:19,190 my perspective, you know. Their IGA roadmap really won't, 358 00:20:19,390 --> 00:20:24,110 or their IGA platform won't go in until after that ERP is in 359 00:20:24,110 --> 00:20:26,070 place and should have time to be settled. 360 00:20:27,670 --> 00:20:32,110 But as always, you're kind of faced with the question of Okay, 361 00:20:32,110 --> 00:20:37,150 do we need to do GRC? And then the question is can GRC 362 00:20:37,430 --> 00:20:41,110 or SAP Identity Manager do everything? 363 00:20:41,670 --> 00:20:48,460 And that could be our IGA or reverse it, can we have some IGA 364 00:20:48,460 --> 00:20:53,340 and manage all the the rules and everything down to the 365 00:20:53,340 --> 00:21:00,820 entitlement level and do access reviews and access provisioning 366 00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:06,860 from the I, J to SAPI mean there's the philosophically, can 367 00:21:06,860 --> 00:21:10,660 it be done is one question. But I think more importantly, 368 00:21:10,660 --> 00:21:12,300 it's like, do you want to do that? 369 00:21:12,740 --> 00:21:16,460 And I feel like, you know, for that latter 1 answers, heck no. 370 00:21:16,930 --> 00:21:20,210 I also think it's techno for do you want to take the SAP piece 371 00:21:20,210 --> 00:21:23,130 to try and make that your enterprise IGA? 372 00:21:23,130 --> 00:21:26,730 Just my experience with seeing this one, I'm a little dated. 373 00:21:27,290 --> 00:21:29,610 I know some of the tools have come a little bit further, but 374 00:21:30,250 --> 00:21:33,890 you know, there's no way that they have caught up with some of 375 00:21:33,890 --> 00:21:35,930 the major IGA platforms out there. 376 00:21:37,090 --> 00:21:38,690 Yeah, SAP still gives me nightmares. 377 00:21:39,330 --> 00:21:41,410 I used to have to manage that from an identity perspective. 378 00:21:42,050 --> 00:21:46,600 Not a fan, but yeah. We've run into this question a 379 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,000 lot with us As for whatever reason, between SAP and between 380 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,080 every other IGA platform. If an organization has SAP, they 381 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:59,680 probably have SAP GRC and it's really good at that specific 382 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,600 task. And it gets less good the 383 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,080 further you go away from that task, do some basic things, you 384 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,040 know, Windows, Active Directory, that's kind of a No brainer. 385 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:10,200 Everybody can do. Active Directory, that's not. 386 00:22:10,990 --> 00:22:14,310 Hard. But is the interface up to 387 00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:15,830 snuff? You know, does they have all the 388 00:22:15,870 --> 00:22:18,150 business rules and logic that you want to be able to configure 389 00:22:18,150 --> 00:22:21,830 in it versus customization? And I feel like This is why IGA 390 00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:25,270 is so hard is because it's hard to have A1 size fits all 391 00:22:25,670 --> 00:22:30,110 especially when you start dealing with apps like SAP or 392 00:22:30,270 --> 00:22:36,510 Dynamics or Oracle or any other you know large ERP type type 393 00:22:36,510 --> 00:22:40,790 implementation. I've been, I've been in IT for 394 00:22:40,790 --> 00:22:47,270 like roughly 25 years and when I've seen failures happen in IT, 395 00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:53,670 it's been ERP deployments, it's been I M deployments and maybe 396 00:22:53,670 --> 00:22:57,670 CRM but CRM is, is mostly they didn't do a good job with the 397 00:22:57,670 --> 00:22:59,190 data. So put that up to the side 398 00:22:59,590 --> 00:23:02,990 you're talking about ERP and I M like that's where the big 399 00:23:02,990 --> 00:23:06,950 failures happen. Here's my feeling for my advice 400 00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:09,160 for I am practitioners out there. 401 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:14,200 If an ERP platform is being replaced or being launched, like 402 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:19,120 don't set yourself up to be. The reason that it fails is 403 00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:20,520 this. Projects are pretty damn 404 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,240 expensive. The reason I am projects usually 405 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,520 fail is the same thing. They get tied into too many 406 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,240 business critical applications and then for whatever reason 407 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,320 they don't operate in those business critical applications. 408 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,330 Can't do their job because of your I M system. 409 00:23:38,850 --> 00:23:40,970 Don't let that happen. Don't be that person. 410 00:23:42,290 --> 00:23:44,610 Yeah, don't be that guy. Don't be that guy. 411 00:23:46,370 --> 00:23:48,810 So we got another conference we're going to in a couple days 412 00:23:48,850 --> 00:23:50,530 authenticate. I feel like this is everybody 413 00:23:50,530 --> 00:23:52,010 decided. Apparently October was 414 00:23:52,010 --> 00:23:55,050 conference month. Between Octane Identity Week 415 00:23:55,050 --> 00:23:57,530 America sale point Navigate I think I'm sure there was 416 00:23:57,530 --> 00:24:00,210 probably a Gartner thing that took place and now you and I are 417 00:24:00,210 --> 00:24:02,010 headed to. Sanford. 418 00:24:02,010 --> 00:24:03,130 No. San Diego? 419 00:24:03,130 --> 00:24:05,250 I don't know where I'm going to Carlsbad. 420 00:24:05,250 --> 00:24:09,450 Just north of the city of San Diego to do a few things that 421 00:24:09,450 --> 00:24:13,930 authenticate, we're going to do a keynote live show, which I'm a 422 00:24:13,930 --> 00:24:15,730 little nervous about. We haven't done anything like 423 00:24:15,730 --> 00:24:19,450 that before. Here's one thing I was thinking, 424 00:24:19,770 --> 00:24:21,690 yeah, yeah. So I had a reflection on this 425 00:24:21,690 --> 00:24:23,330 today. I'm like, I don't know that 426 00:24:23,330 --> 00:24:28,130 we've ever had that many people listen to one of our podcasts at 427 00:24:28,130 --> 00:24:32,640 one time is, you know, there could be 500 people in the room 428 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,520 different. Times, Yeah, just as many 429 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,720 people, Yeah. Other people listen at different 430 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,680 times. So I think we're gonna set a new 431 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,680 record on Monday. Yeah, I think it'll turn out 432 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,400 well. I'm kind of, I'm nervously 433 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,440 excited for it. The idea is that we're going to 434 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,440 do a live show on stage. It's gonna be very similar to 435 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,350 this format you and I are gonna. They're going to play our, you 436 00:24:56,350 --> 00:24:59,790 know, our intro, you know, Jingle and you and I are going 437 00:24:59,790 --> 00:25:01,190 to come up on the stage. We're going to sit down. 438 00:25:01,190 --> 00:25:02,750 It's supposed to look like we're recording something. 439 00:25:02,750 --> 00:25:05,070 I'm not sure how that's going to look, but we'll do it live. 440 00:25:06,350 --> 00:25:09,950 You and I are going to have our normal sort of upfront banter. 441 00:25:10,430 --> 00:25:12,870 It was specifically requested that we do banter. 442 00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:15,150 So we'll have some of that, yeah. 443 00:25:15,750 --> 00:25:17,430 And then we'll introduce our guests. 444 00:25:17,430 --> 00:25:19,910 We're obviously we're going to talk about Vito authentication, 445 00:25:19,910 --> 00:25:23,960 pass keys, things like that. We've got a few people that have 446 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,240 been scheduled and maybe a surprise guest we'll see. 447 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,440 But we'll have product managers basically from TikTok, Google 448 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,200 and eBay that are going to come up and sort of join the show as 449 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,040 sort of like a group interview life, you know, live show. 450 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,600 And we'll you know run through our normal kind of questions and 451 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,120 things like that. And we are going to, I'm even 452 00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:43,840 thinking like what are we going to do for a lighter note. 453 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,320 So I've got some good ideas on how we're going to end the show 454 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,280 with, you know, shenanigans and high jinks and just. 455 00:25:50,980 --> 00:25:52,340 Fun stuff that I like to do at the end. 456 00:25:53,060 --> 00:25:53,740 Yeah. Yeah. 457 00:25:53,740 --> 00:25:56,620 No, I I mean, that's what makes it fun for people. 458 00:25:56,620 --> 00:25:59,860 Like we always want the podcast to be educational and 459 00:25:59,860 --> 00:26:02,380 entertaining. So you know, that's usually the 460 00:26:02,380 --> 00:26:06,140 entertaining part. But we're also at the conference 461 00:26:06,140 --> 00:26:10,340 going to be recording some individual podcasts that will 462 00:26:10,340 --> 00:26:13,700 drop over the next two weeks, I think. 463 00:26:14,260 --> 00:26:17,860 So day one, we're recording for the second time with David Mahdi 464 00:26:17,860 --> 00:26:22,340 from Transmit Security. Like the the Cheeto Chief 465 00:26:23,020 --> 00:26:27,140 Identity Officer. And so he's going to be talking 466 00:26:27,140 --> 00:26:30,220 to us about his. Everybody's talking about their 467 00:26:31,380 --> 00:26:34,020 what they're presenting, but then of course we'll go off on 468 00:26:34,020 --> 00:26:36,220 all the side trails to make it even. 469 00:26:36,340 --> 00:26:39,100 Us No, we never. We would never do that. 470 00:26:40,940 --> 00:26:41,980 What? Me complain. 471 00:26:43,260 --> 00:26:46,220 So yeah, David will be talking about machine identities, which 472 00:26:46,220 --> 00:26:49,780 I think is a huge topic. Well, Stephanie Shucker on. 473 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:55,320 So Stephanie was presented to us as the premier biometrics expert 474 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,720 in the world. And we talked to her for, what 475 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,640 was it, 1/2 hour, Jeff? And I'm like, yeah, I can see 476 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,400 that. I don't know all the biometrics 477 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,880 experts in the world, but she probably gets, you know, gets 478 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,360 that award. Best biometric person on the 479 00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:12,880 best identity podcast in the world? 480 00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:14,480 Bam. Take that. 481 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,720 We have Pam Dingle on. I mean, everybody knows who Pam 482 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:24,740 is, Microsoft, yeah, I think there's so much that we can talk 483 00:27:24,740 --> 00:27:29,140 about that we have to make sure that we get to the the, the top 484 00:27:29,140 --> 00:27:31,820 issues and and primarily we want to give her some time to talk 485 00:27:31,820 --> 00:27:34,700 about like what she's presenting on because it's a talk of mine 486 00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:37,540 for her. We're going to have Pedro 487 00:27:37,540 --> 00:27:41,660 Martinez on from Taos Group. Pedro's there talking about pass 488 00:27:41,660 --> 00:27:46,540 keys in financial services, but I think he's going to talk more 489 00:27:46,540 --> 00:27:48,980 broadly than just financial services. 490 00:27:48,980 --> 00:27:53,070 And so we'll get that perspective because I think he's 491 00:27:53,070 --> 00:27:56,030 the only person we're talking to specifically about Peskys. 492 00:27:56,030 --> 00:27:59,790 And I think you know at this point that's the that's the 493 00:27:59,790 --> 00:28:02,150 major theme for Fido Alliance. I don't know. 494 00:28:02,470 --> 00:28:05,670 Who knows? Maybe it'll be a I, I'm sure. 495 00:28:06,510 --> 00:28:08,150 I'll find a way to weave that into our keynote. 496 00:28:08,150 --> 00:28:10,510 Is is something about a I? Yeah. 497 00:28:11,150 --> 00:28:15,110 And we have Ori Eisen from Trucen and he's talking pastor 498 00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:17,780 list, so excited about that conversation as well. 499 00:28:17,940 --> 00:28:20,980 The password list for me is like, you know that was like 500 00:28:20,980 --> 00:28:25,940 last year's buzz. I feel like we've made some 501 00:28:25,940 --> 00:28:29,180 progress. I was thinking this past year 502 00:28:29,180 --> 00:28:31,020 was going to be the year of password list. 503 00:28:31,380 --> 00:28:34,420 I don't know that I can say that that's what it was. 504 00:28:34,780 --> 00:28:36,700 They will look back on it and we will say that. 505 00:28:37,020 --> 00:28:39,700 I think that's a big thing I want to say about thinking what 506 00:28:39,700 --> 00:28:43,540 are the customers success stories that tied back to pass 507 00:28:43,540 --> 00:28:45,140 through list. There were some good ones last 508 00:28:45,140 --> 00:28:46,100 year. Let's see. 509 00:28:46,100 --> 00:28:48,300 Our feet is becoming even more mainstream. 510 00:28:49,420 --> 00:28:50,620 Well, I think it has to start somewhere. 511 00:28:50,620 --> 00:28:54,820 The technology is there now and we've got basic interoperability 512 00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:58,020 between devices and platforms and Os's, right. 513 00:29:00,060 --> 00:29:05,260 I think, I think this last year will be the beginning of that 514 00:29:05,260 --> 00:29:08,460 wave that we that we thought would be coming sooner. 515 00:29:08,460 --> 00:29:11,510 But hey, better late than never. I'm excited to see it. 516 00:29:11,510 --> 00:29:14,790 I'm excited to see more passkeys options popping up when I'm 517 00:29:14,790 --> 00:29:17,990 signing into things. Google, actually, I think it was 518 00:29:17,990 --> 00:29:19,310 this week. Earlier this week, they 519 00:29:19,310 --> 00:29:22,710 announced passkeys by default for every user now. 520 00:29:23,310 --> 00:29:24,870 I mean, that's a big step. Fantastic. 521 00:29:25,630 --> 00:29:31,230 Yeah. Okay, it's 11:30 PM. 522 00:29:33,070 --> 00:29:35,230 Not here. It's only 9. 30, yeah, right. 523 00:29:37,060 --> 00:29:38,980 It'll be interesting to see what happens next week. 524 00:29:38,980 --> 00:29:40,740 I'm kind of bummed I'm going to be there a couple days. 525 00:29:40,740 --> 00:29:43,220 I have to, like, take a super early flight Wednesday morning 526 00:29:43,660 --> 00:29:45,900 to get to Indianapolis. So while you're still sunning 527 00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:49,300 yourself in California, I'm headed to Indianapolis for 528 00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:52,780 another conference, a government focused thing in Indiana. 529 00:29:52,780 --> 00:29:59,220 So that'll be fun, I guess. I'll see my friend Andrew. 530 00:29:59,220 --> 00:30:00,660 So that's good. We'll have a good time, I'm sure 531 00:30:00,660 --> 00:30:04,060 the two of us talking government and identity and things like 532 00:30:04,060 --> 00:30:06,940 that. So leaving early Wednesday 533 00:30:06,940 --> 00:30:09,420 morning, does that mean you're not going to take any of the 534 00:30:09,420 --> 00:30:12,900 social hour activities tonight I think? 535 00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:16,620 My flight's at like 6:00 AM or something like that on on 536 00:30:16,620 --> 00:30:18,660 Wednesday. So I'm going to be like in 537 00:30:18,660 --> 00:30:21,860 recording and then basically like pack up my stuff, go to 538 00:30:21,860 --> 00:30:23,420 sleep and be out of, be out of there. 539 00:30:24,220 --> 00:30:25,700 I'll drink all of your awful then. 540 00:30:26,060 --> 00:30:27,740 Oh, thank you for making that sacrifice. 541 00:30:27,740 --> 00:30:32,500 Yeah, appreciate that. You want to end on a later note? 542 00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:35,930 Yeah, let's do that. You had you had an idea when we 543 00:30:35,930 --> 00:30:38,490 talked about it and I haven't follow up if if we have time and 544 00:30:38,490 --> 00:30:41,170 we and we think about it again what was yours okay. 545 00:30:41,170 --> 00:30:45,610 So mine was what is the best? And I'm just freeing this on 546 00:30:45,610 --> 00:30:48,210 you. It was the best and worst 547 00:30:48,730 --> 00:30:50,970 airports you've been to. Okay. 548 00:30:51,250 --> 00:30:55,770 Well the best one that I've been to would probably be Canada 549 00:30:55,770 --> 00:31:00,250 Airport in Japan and now it's only it's been probably like 10 550 00:31:00,250 --> 00:31:03,690 years since I was there. Maybe 7 but. 551 00:31:04,580 --> 00:31:07,980 Just a super nice airport, super clean, very impressive. 552 00:31:07,980 --> 00:31:10,900 Kind of walking in and having like these just high 553 00:31:12,060 --> 00:31:16,900 architecture ceilings and trees and the infamous Hello Kitty 554 00:31:16,900 --> 00:31:20,340 store that I felt had to sleep on a bench on outside because 555 00:31:20,980 --> 00:31:22,980 thanks to United, I missed my connecting flight into the 556 00:31:22,980 --> 00:31:24,060 Philippines. So. 557 00:31:24,660 --> 00:31:27,740 But even still I think that was probably the nicest airport that 558 00:31:27,740 --> 00:31:31,620 I've been at. Worst airport. 559 00:31:31,620 --> 00:31:34,530 It's kind of hard to. That's kind of to say because 560 00:31:34,530 --> 00:31:39,170 every airport can totally suck if you, like, have a bad 561 00:31:39,210 --> 00:31:43,690 experience in it. I'm not sure how to answer that 562 00:31:43,890 --> 00:31:45,730 because I feel like it could be any airport. 563 00:31:45,810 --> 00:31:49,930 So let me remind you of 1. So we were in Connecticut. 564 00:31:50,290 --> 00:31:53,370 I think it was Sanford, Connecticut. 565 00:31:53,930 --> 00:31:59,390 And it was like a bus station. And it was like there was like 566 00:31:59,390 --> 00:32:02,190 nowhere to sit, no alos to plug into. 567 00:32:02,630 --> 00:32:07,190 That one was pretty bad. Yeah, I think La Guardia in New 568 00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:10,470 York is really bad. Oh, it used to be bad, but it's 569 00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:13,230 actually nice now. At least the United, Yeah, it's 570 00:32:13,550 --> 00:32:15,430 really nice. I mean, it's a great turnaround. 571 00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:16,590 I mean, it's kind of what you want to see. 572 00:32:16,590 --> 00:32:19,430 But I remember being in La Guardia once and I was sitting 573 00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:24,910 in one of the terminals and there was like A to call it a 574 00:32:24,910 --> 00:32:29,480 week would not be fair. Two weeks this was like just an 575 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,640 open water faucet coming through the ceiling into the middle of 576 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,520 the concourse. And I was like, yeah, everything 577 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,520 I'd heard about La Guardia was instantly true. 578 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,600 I saw that. But they have turned it around. 579 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,000 They've got new construction there. 580 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,720 It's actually quite nice. Now I think one of those things 581 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,040 is really annoying. It's funny to go from like 1 582 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,280 terminal to next shift to get on the bus. 583 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,400 And it's like it feels like you're driving for like 10 584 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,800 minutes to get to the terminal that's probably, you know, 100 585 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,290 yards away. Chicago's like that right now. 586 00:32:58,290 --> 00:33:01,090 O'Hare because first of all they had like the train, the people 587 00:33:01,090 --> 00:33:05,170 mover, the tram monorail type thing was down for like 4 years 588 00:33:06,090 --> 00:33:09,090 and then now that's the only way can get between some of the 589 00:33:09,090 --> 00:33:11,130 different, some of the terminals because they're doing 590 00:33:11,130 --> 00:33:15,170 construction everywhere. Yeah, O'Hare is, is a real pain 591 00:33:15,170 --> 00:33:16,490 right now trying to move between terminals. 592 00:33:16,490 --> 00:33:18,130 It's just not fun. Yeah. 593 00:33:18,250 --> 00:33:22,250 So I'm going to surprise them my answer, but my favorite airport 594 00:33:22,730 --> 00:33:26,290 is Detroit. That is a nice airport. 595 00:33:26,670 --> 00:33:31,070 It's not nice airport. Minneapolis isn't too bad like 596 00:33:31,070 --> 00:33:32,590 that. That shopping mall that they 597 00:33:32,590 --> 00:33:33,910 have in the middle is pretty nice. 598 00:33:33,910 --> 00:33:38,270 But I mean, getting from one end to the other is a real pain in 599 00:33:38,270 --> 00:33:40,710 the neck. So I'm not a big Minneapolis 600 00:33:40,990 --> 00:33:44,030 airport fan. I'm also not a Charlotte airport 601 00:33:44,030 --> 00:33:46,310 fan. I think people think, oh, so 602 00:33:46,310 --> 00:33:47,590 quaint. The middle area's got these 603 00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:51,830 rocking chairs and stuff but if you get dropped and like E and 604 00:33:51,830 --> 00:33:55,890 you've got to get to the other end of C or something like it 605 00:33:55,890 --> 00:34:01,530 could be like 1/2 hour walk. It's it's not what it's not good 606 00:34:01,530 --> 00:34:04,210 when you have a tight connection because then you start running 607 00:34:04,810 --> 00:34:07,370 and then you get to to the gate and like your plane's already 608 00:34:07,370 --> 00:34:09,929 taken off. So yeah, I'm not a big Charlotte 609 00:34:09,929 --> 00:34:11,650 fan. I'm going to go with Detroit as 610 00:34:11,650 --> 00:34:13,810 best. I also have to give honorable 611 00:34:13,810 --> 00:34:16,690 mention to you know, and I haven't done a ton of 612 00:34:17,770 --> 00:34:21,489 international travel, but the airport in Amsterdam, I think 613 00:34:21,489 --> 00:34:24,460 it's called skiffle skiffle. I don't know. 614 00:34:24,460 --> 00:34:28,340 Never been that is I I don't like it and I don't know if like 615 00:34:28,580 --> 00:34:34,139 all the European airports are like this, but it's like there's 616 00:34:34,139 --> 00:34:39,219 like a waiting room concept for each game. 617 00:34:39,219 --> 00:34:42,699 You go through the security or they check your ticket and check 618 00:34:42,699 --> 00:34:45,900 your passport and then you go and you like sit there away from 619 00:34:45,900 --> 00:34:49,940 the board, the plane. So like the the common area is 620 00:34:49,940 --> 00:34:52,460 almost like, I think it's almost like public. 621 00:34:52,500 --> 00:34:55,060 It's been a really long while since I've been there, but I 622 00:34:55,060 --> 00:34:59,540 hated that airport. Like I said, any airport can be 623 00:34:59,540 --> 00:35:01,780 bad if you think about it hard enough, or if you have a 624 00:35:01,940 --> 00:35:06,260 disastrous event in an airport. I thought of something as a 625 00:35:06,260 --> 00:35:09,900 followup, lighter note, and I'm going to this is a challenge 626 00:35:09,940 --> 00:35:11,300 that I'm pretty sure I'm going to win. 627 00:35:11,940 --> 00:35:15,020 What's the best thing, best meal that you had this week? 628 00:35:18,790 --> 00:35:22,110 It's pretty good ones, man. We had sushi last night that was 629 00:35:22,830 --> 00:35:29,270 pretty out of this world, very expensive. 630 00:35:30,430 --> 00:35:33,070 Fortunately, it's out of my out of my expense report. 631 00:35:37,590 --> 00:35:41,830 So I had I went out to dinner with our good friend Daniel. 632 00:35:42,310 --> 00:35:45,190 We went to a chef's tasting. That's always, yeah. 633 00:35:45,230 --> 00:35:47,990 When Daniel's ordering me, you're going to get the best of 634 00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:51,490 the best. Well, we went to a place just 635 00:35:51,490 --> 00:35:53,810 like he and I and we had a chef's tasting. 636 00:35:53,810 --> 00:35:56,290 And let me let me just read the menu to you because this is what 637 00:35:56,290 --> 00:35:59,370 we had in one sitting and different courses. 638 00:35:59,370 --> 00:36:04,570 First course was corn, carrot and radish, sort of a tasting 639 00:36:04,570 --> 00:36:08,490 menu type thing. Corn with pine nut, carrot with 640 00:36:08,490 --> 00:36:10,410 hay. It's kind of interesting radish 641 00:36:10,410 --> 00:36:13,690 with rose. Then we followed that up with. 642 00:36:14,450 --> 00:36:18,530 Oyster in a preserved mustard surf clam and a fermented black 643 00:36:18,530 --> 00:36:20,730 bean. Hamachi and black vinegar 644 00:36:21,130 --> 00:36:25,210 Jellyfish with Thai basil and a smoked trout row with seaweed. 645 00:36:25,930 --> 00:36:31,050 Hamachi is what eel. I don't want to know because I 646 00:36:31,050 --> 00:36:33,530 stepped way out of my comfort zone for this dinner. 647 00:36:34,450 --> 00:36:38,490 This is sushi soup. Yeah, I mean, I've, I I. 648 00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:42,620 I had oyster, I had surf clam, I had Machi, jellyfish, trout. 649 00:36:42,660 --> 00:36:44,820 I mean, these are things that I would like jellyfish. 650 00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:49,740 Yeah, jellyfish with Thai basil. I've never eaten jellyfish. 651 00:36:50,220 --> 00:36:52,820 Wine. I don't remember. 652 00:36:52,940 --> 00:36:59,540 There was also wine. Then we had crab with saffron 653 00:36:59,540 --> 00:37:03,060 and ginkgo. That's when things started to 654 00:37:03,060 --> 00:37:05,580 take a turn for the better, because I'm not really of the 655 00:37:05,580 --> 00:37:08,650 sea. We then went to a rabbit soup 656 00:37:08,650 --> 00:37:13,770 dumpling with blueberry vinegar, an antelope tartar with apple, 657 00:37:14,650 --> 00:37:17,290 and then a chicken wing that was stuffed with Cordyceps. 658 00:37:17,730 --> 00:37:19,770 Not a mushrooms person, but I could. 659 00:37:19,850 --> 00:37:23,090 That was actually not bad, a black truffle consomme with 660 00:37:23,090 --> 00:37:26,970 pecan tofu and then capped off on the savory side with a spiced 661 00:37:26,970 --> 00:37:28,810 goat leg with scallion and sesame. 662 00:37:30,130 --> 00:37:33,250 For dessert they had. It was like a basil. 663 00:37:34,490 --> 00:37:38,410 Ice cream type thing with melon and I think it was cantaloupe 664 00:37:38,410 --> 00:37:41,610 but I'm not exactly sure. And then a sweet potato cereal 665 00:37:41,610 --> 00:37:48,410 with toasted milk. That sounds really great. 666 00:37:48,850 --> 00:37:50,770 Yeah, Daniel's like, amazing. He's like you stepped out of 667 00:37:50,770 --> 00:37:51,850 your country, was like, no, no, no. 668 00:37:52,170 --> 00:37:55,850 I leaped out of my comfort zone with that milk, I was going to 669 00:37:55,850 --> 00:37:56,770 say. That was even close. 670 00:37:57,330 --> 00:38:00,730 Did you leave there and go and get like McDonald's or anything? 671 00:38:01,130 --> 00:38:02,850 No, I that was it. That's all I had. 672 00:38:02,850 --> 00:38:06,570 In fact that's I don't think I actually ate anything the rest 673 00:38:07,170 --> 00:38:08,650 for that day. So that was kind of like 674 00:38:08,650 --> 00:38:10,930 everything on once. Because I was, I should have 675 00:38:10,930 --> 00:38:12,810 told you as the answer to your question. 676 00:38:12,810 --> 00:38:16,210 Like I had the chicken sandwich at Popeyes today. 677 00:38:17,490 --> 00:38:19,690 Hey, that's good too. Hey, teach their own. 678 00:38:20,570 --> 00:38:23,530 Is that good? I'll do Taco Bell. 679 00:38:23,530 --> 00:38:24,610 I'm not fancy. I don't. 680 00:38:24,610 --> 00:38:26,490 I don't discriminate. I'll eat anything for the most 681 00:38:26,490 --> 00:38:28,770 part. Any fast food, I should say, but 682 00:38:28,770 --> 00:38:30,370 this was definitely a meal that was like. 683 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,480 Way outside my comfort zone. So I'm kind of glad I tried it. 684 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,760 Jellyfish. I mean that's that's that's 685 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,800 serious stuff right there. Hey, it started off a little bit 686 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,760 rough, cuz I was it was that oyster with mustard shooter. 687 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:48,600 Two things I don't really like. I tried it and I like, coughed 688 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,760 right away and Deanna just starts laughing at me that that 689 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,960 was really the first course type thing that came out, you know, I 690 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:55,600 was like, oh, it's gonna be the antelope. 691 00:38:56,740 --> 00:38:57,460 Right. Yeah, exactly. 692 00:38:58,180 --> 00:39:00,180 But it was good. The best part, The meal, though, 693 00:39:00,180 --> 00:39:01,980 wasn't the food. It was all the food was actually 694 00:39:01,980 --> 00:39:05,260 really good. This place called Apt 115 in 695 00:39:05,260 --> 00:39:08,380 Austin, a little bit off of downtown, not too far away, but 696 00:39:08,380 --> 00:39:12,620 it was, it was kind of cool. Spot was the chef who kind of 697 00:39:12,620 --> 00:39:15,580 prepared. Everything would come out, and 698 00:39:15,700 --> 00:39:19,540 he provided facts about what he was giving you in a very short, 699 00:39:20,820 --> 00:39:24,860 I would say an unfriendly way, just like here's this. 700 00:39:25,580 --> 00:39:28,260 Take it one bite. Enjoy and then you just walk 701 00:39:28,260 --> 00:39:30,700 away. And we were having a good time 702 00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:33,420 with that and our server was super, you know, friendly and 703 00:39:33,420 --> 00:39:35,780 knowledgeable and everyone there was was actually pretty great. 704 00:39:35,780 --> 00:39:38,020 But we were getting a cake out of like the chef coming over and 705 00:39:38,020 --> 00:39:41,740 just not being Mr. Personality. I've heard when you have like a 706 00:39:41,740 --> 00:39:47,100 sushi chef like they put the amount of soy sauce on it that 707 00:39:47,100 --> 00:39:50,620 you're supposed to have. So if you like you used to go 708 00:39:50,620 --> 00:39:53,940 into a sushi place and like dipping your, you know the soy. 709 00:39:53,940 --> 00:39:57,720 Like that's not how you do it. It's like the three Michelin 710 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,360 star sushi places. Yeah, taste your food before you 711 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,400 decide to add more seasoning. I think that's a very American 712 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:04,680 thing. Is like, oh, you get the food 713 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,520 and then it's like you just throwing salt and ketchup on it 714 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:08,800 without you haven't tried it yet. 715 00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:11,640 That's a cardinal rule of eating. 716 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,160 You should not be doing that. Taste the Food First, then if 717 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:16,440 you need to add things to it, do it. 718 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:17,640 It's. The cardinal rule. 719 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,720 But it's like I already know I want ketchup on my French rice. 720 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,850 Yes, but as a side. I'm I'm. 721 00:40:25,010 --> 00:40:28,570 I'm more like thinking of like throwing ketchup on your steak, 722 00:40:28,690 --> 00:40:30,970 right? Or things like that or adding 723 00:40:30,970 --> 00:40:32,530 salt before you've even tried it. 724 00:40:32,530 --> 00:40:35,450 I mean, that's that's bad for your steak. 725 00:40:35,530 --> 00:40:37,290 Oh my goodness. Yeah, Who would do that? 726 00:40:37,290 --> 00:40:41,010 Only lunatics would. All right, let's go ahead and 727 00:40:41,010 --> 00:40:43,810 wrap it up before I turn into a pumpkin. 728 00:40:44,850 --> 00:40:47,210 So yeah, this is going to go out Monday in a couple days. 729 00:40:47,650 --> 00:40:49,370 We're sort of competing with our keynote. 730 00:40:49,370 --> 00:40:51,810 But hey, that is kind of cool for people who aren't watching 731 00:40:51,810 --> 00:40:53,130 our keynote. Maybe they're listening to this. 732 00:40:53,940 --> 00:40:58,020 And we're told we'll get a recording of the keynote, so 733 00:40:58,020 --> 00:41:01,420 we'll be able to publish that. Our plan is to publish that as 734 00:41:01,460 --> 00:41:06,540 like the capstone of all the recordings we do next week. 735 00:41:06,860 --> 00:41:10,060 So look forward to that. And if we don't get that 736 00:41:10,060 --> 00:41:12,380 recording, I'm going to be kind of ticked off. 737 00:41:12,940 --> 00:41:14,500 Yeah, I have faith and confidence. 738 00:41:14,500 --> 00:41:15,620 I think. I think we'll get that. 739 00:41:15,740 --> 00:41:17,580 I just don't know when I'm going to have time to pull it all 740 00:41:17,580 --> 00:41:19,490 together. Because I'm going to be 741 00:41:19,490 --> 00:41:21,770 traveling so much over there again the next few weeks, so 742 00:41:21,970 --> 00:41:24,330 probably be an interesting release schedule. 743 00:41:24,330 --> 00:41:28,570 But here we are almost midnight, just trying to get something out 744 00:41:28,570 --> 00:41:30,690 for Monday to keep the streak alive and we we're going to do 745 00:41:30,690 --> 00:41:31,810 it. I definitely get be able to get 746 00:41:31,810 --> 00:41:35,170 this edited out in time and then we'll figure out the 747 00:41:35,170 --> 00:41:37,010 Authenticate release schedule from there. 748 00:41:37,770 --> 00:41:42,370 Oh, and by the way, I listened to the episode with you, Eve, 749 00:41:42,410 --> 00:41:45,010 and Hutch. I thought, that's one that 750 00:41:45,010 --> 00:41:47,970 everybody should listen to. That was hilarious. 751 00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:54,430 Got into the DND conversation. She got into the the alarm 752 00:41:54,430 --> 00:41:56,110 thing. And I'm telling you, like San 753 00:41:56,110 --> 00:41:58,910 Francisco was like, I was the only one who knew this thing was 754 00:41:58,910 --> 00:42:00,310 going to happen. No one seemed to care. 755 00:42:01,710 --> 00:42:03,750 That was a fun conversation. I don't know. 756 00:42:03,750 --> 00:42:06,150 I just have a good time. Every time Ian's on, he's great. 757 00:42:06,470 --> 00:42:08,550 First time I'll be able to meet Hutch, he was great too. 758 00:42:09,070 --> 00:42:13,030 That was just, you know, just. Three dudes sitting in a 759 00:42:13,030 --> 00:42:16,350 backroom talking pretty much. I'm telling you, man, Ian could 760 00:42:16,350 --> 00:42:19,550 be like a stand up comedian. He's a funny. 761 00:42:19,550 --> 00:42:24,430 He's got a quick wit. Yeah, that's why he's who he is. 762 00:42:24,430 --> 00:42:26,710 He's doing these keynotes and all kinds of stuff. 763 00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:29,790 That's true. All right, let's wrap it up. 764 00:42:30,510 --> 00:42:35,990 You can find us on the web, idacpodcast.com, on Twitter or X 765 00:42:35,990 --> 00:42:38,390 or whatever we call it, IDAC Podcasts. 766 00:42:38,780 --> 00:42:43,260 Nastodon at IDAC podcasts at infosec dot exchange. 767 00:42:43,620 --> 00:42:46,580 We have our new LinkedIn page that I have yet to really 768 00:42:46,580 --> 00:42:50,460 promote, but I'm been subtly like tagging it and all of the 769 00:42:50,460 --> 00:42:52,660 recent LinkedIn posts whenever I post something, you know, new 770 00:42:52,660 --> 00:42:55,060 episode or whatever it is. And we've got some followers 771 00:42:55,060 --> 00:42:59,140 there, so subscribe, like share with friends. 772 00:42:59,380 --> 00:43:02,380 For the folks who came up to me at Navigate, people like 773 00:43:02,380 --> 00:43:07,380 Patrick, Edvin, Matthew, there were a couple guys from Sweden 774 00:43:07,380 --> 00:43:09,470 and I met. I think one of them's name is 775 00:43:09,470 --> 00:43:11,750 Marcus. I can't remember, sorry, but the 776 00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:14,310 people who came up and introduced themselves was very 777 00:43:14,310 --> 00:43:16,030 cool. I handed out some stickers, so 778 00:43:16,070 --> 00:43:17,550 you'll be happy to know that there are more stickers in the 779 00:43:17,550 --> 00:43:18,630 wild. Thumbs up from Jim. 780 00:43:19,910 --> 00:43:23,110 But yeah, that's why we do this is just to have conversations 781 00:43:23,110 --> 00:43:25,950 about identity like we do here and hopefully share with the 782 00:43:25,950 --> 00:43:27,990 world. Anything else, Jim? 783 00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:31,430 No, man. Sleep time. 784 00:43:32,070 --> 00:43:34,470 Yeah, sleep time. And then just in time for my dog 785 00:43:34,470 --> 00:43:38,110 to start chewing his little Nyla bone thing here. 786 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,960 So we'll wrap it up. Thanks everyone for listening 787 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:42,640 and we'll talk with y'all in the next one. 788 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,840 You've been listening to Identity at the Center. 789 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:51,240 We hope you've enjoyed the show. Make sure to like, rate and 790 00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:54,880 review, and we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hit the 791 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:59,040 website at identity@thecenter.com and find 792 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:06,440 us on Twitter at IBAC Podcast. See you next time on identity at 793 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:07,400 the center.