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This is identity at the center. 
Welcome to the Identity of the 

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Center podcast. 
I'm Jeff, and that's Jim. 

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Hey, Jim. 
Hey, Jeff, how are you? 

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Not so bad yourself. 
Great. 

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Look, we're here at Authenticate
2025. 

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We'll give it away. 
Listen, sometimes a little slow 

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in the uptake, but I think 
things are starting to come 

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together for me, right? 
We're major themes at the 

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conference are things like, hey,
the attacks are still the things

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they've been phishing, social 
engineering, things like that to

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get your password right now, how
do we solve that? 

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I think the answer has been pass
keys, but it continues to evolve

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to now include identity 
verification. 

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So you need this technology to 
solve this non-technical way 

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that the hackers are working. 
At the same time, there's also a

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theme where AI is playing a role
not only for the good guys, but 

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for the bad guys as well. 
So I think there's this AI arms 

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race going on. 
I don't know. 

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All these things are like, This 
is why you come to conferences, 

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right? 
It's like there's the theme, 

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there's information, you sit 
there and then that ticket for 

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some point, at some point for 
everybody. 

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It's just like, yeah, that aha 
moments. 

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Like I get it. 
I think I get it. 

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You think you're getting it? 
I think I'm getting it OK. 

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So identity verification I would
say is huge, but I don't think 

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it's just a technology because 
what is identity verification? 

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It's verification of typically 
at least in most of these 

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scenarios, a document and what 
is that document? 

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Something government issue, 
right? 

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Something that is or maybe 
financial institution or 

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education. 
So I think there is an 

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opportunity for partnership here
between a whole bunch of 

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different entities to try and 
make this better for people. 

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And I think that's what we're 
seeing in a great confidence. 

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Well, there's a lot of attendees
from a lot of different 

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industries and verticals and 
technologies. 

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And but it's not just technology
vendors, it's also banks, 

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education, I think Healthcare is
here, you know, higher Ed I. 

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Don't know if there's. 
Government here, we can ask our 

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guests of that, but I think all 
those need to come together to 

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really make this something that 
actually takes off and really 

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flies. 
Yeah, there's a lot of 

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practitioners here, so we can 
see the the progress is 

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happening already, but more and 
more organizations are drinking 

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the kool-aid and saying, all 
right, we need to do this as 

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well. 
You know, when I think about the

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identity identity verification, 
I think where it hits home for 

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me is we've talked a lot in the 
past about this unhappy fast, 

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right? 
So that most of the hacks don't 

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go through the front door. 
It comes down to the unlocking 

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of a forgotten or a lost pass 
key for in this example, what if

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you could go back to a verified 
identity? 

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You could do identity 
verification to unlock your 

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passkey. 
Now that's horrible, yes. 

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So I'm a fan of passkey, so I've
got every time I see it, I set 

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it up. 
So why don't we just, like, get 

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into it with the man, the myth, 
the legend himself, Andrew Shiki

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are sitting across the table 
from us. 

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Yeah. 
Executive director, executive 

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director and CEO. 
I, I, I feel like I've been 

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butchering your title for a long
time because this you've been on

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as long as you. 
Have it you? 

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Can call me whatever you want 10
Times Now like. 10 times I'm 

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really here just to pad my 
league. 

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And and you are doing a fine job
on my I, I was talking to Jim 

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yesterday during your keynote 
and say, all right, we got to 

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wait, do something for and go, 
we go. 

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On this is play, I appreciate 
this. 

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If I keep having my lead, I 
don't know if I'm like the Cal 

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Ripken of Inac or LeBron. 
I'm near as athletic or, you 

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know, as strong as you're those 
guys. 

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But I'm I, I take pride in this,
this record and I do intend to 

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keep it. 
Well, it's definitely a career 

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highlight as far as I'm. 
Concerned. 

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There's that. 
It is. 

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Why don't we start with where 
we're at, right. 

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The authenticate this 2021, one 
of my favorites of the year and 

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it's been a great conference so 
far. 

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But I'm curious before we get to
that, like you, you I well, 

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let's let's get into that as 
well. 

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But yeah, your keynote 
yesterday. 

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Yeah, it was it was a little bit
of kind of making everything. 

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It was like, all right, here's 
where we've been and then here's

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where we're going. 
Yeah, we start with kind of I. 

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Tried to have a narrative, yeah.
Right, right. 

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That's like those are summary, 
right? 

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Well, first. 
I mean, let's talk about the 

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elephant in the room, I answered
to her. 

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Yes, I. 
Got AI, got a good. 

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Chuckle up, kid. 
Yeah. 

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So that was. 
The and we're using Max, so I've

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been told you're not a massive. 
I mean, it's all, it's all 

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there. 
So I'm open minded and changing,

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evolving through the years. 
Yeah. 

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So it's great to have an 
opportunity to kind of help set 

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up the the vision for we're 
heading as an alliance for the 

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next, you know, next year or so.
I talked about where we're 

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coming or what we've done and 
where we're coming from and 

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where we're going. 
So the first message was around 

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Passkey in progress with 
Passkey's. 

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The fact of the matter is, I 
mean, Jeff, I love what you 

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said. 
Like when you see a pass key, 

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you, you, you enroll, you use 
it, you love them. 

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And I do too. 
And I, I mentioned I still get a

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thrill every time I see like the
pass key, like signing, like I 

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love it. 
And I love the fact that when I 

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meet random people, like on the 
golf course or something, that's

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what I do. 
I can actually say, ever use a 

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pass key? 
Like, yeah, of course I have. 

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And then that's what I do, you 
know. 

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So is there something like so 
tangible about it? 

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And the progress is so real that
it, that it's fantastic. 

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So the past couple years we've 
got these counting statistics 

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like, well, we estimate, you 
know, 4 billion in total 

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accounts can use pass keys and 
the 7 billion and the 10 billion

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and it says, you know, we can't 
do that anymore because the the 

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rollouts are so grown and we 
know the big brands are doing 

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this. 
But there's no point, you know, 

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quantifying the total, you know,
number of accounts that could 

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use it. 
What I did share is that we 

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estimate over 3 billion actual 
pass keys are being used to 

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secure accounts. 
That's a big 3 billion in three 

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years, less than three years. 
That's fantastic progress. 

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OK, so we're really happy with 
that progress. 

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But we also realized that like 
our job's far from done like I 

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might firmly believe that, you 
know, passkeys are inevitable, 

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right for consumer sign in. 
We will look back at passwords 

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as a thing as a relic, right as 
as a as a Rotary phone. 

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It'll take a while to get there.
We want to make sure that we 

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stay on that path to 
inevitability. 

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And so we have work to do That's
what I've talked about things we

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need to improve on. 
One is on US improvements. 

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I talked about making sure that,
you know, passkeys are fully 

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capable and effective in the 
enterprise for workforce and 

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these are things we'll work on. 
And the last thing I talked 

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about was a need for 
practitioners to really 

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contemplate the broader security
picture, not just for signing, 

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which is where you know, passes 
are closing the front door to 

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attackers, but also they're 
removing knowledge based 

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credentials for recovery. 
All right. 

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So if you if you have, there's a
reason why a lot of companies 

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keep passwords around with pass 
uses. 

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You know, it's very complex to 
get rid of them all together, 

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but you're putting them further 
and further in the corner, 

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further and further in the 
background is what we need to do

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to lead their ultimate demise. 
Because as long as they're like 

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readily accessible for recovery,
there is a back door that's open

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to attackers, right? 
So that's another imperative we 

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have for 2026. 
So we're going to push on all 

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those things as we look to, you 
know, see more and more 

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adoption, better adoption, 
better deployments that with 

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passkeys in the market. 
I find interesting that you 

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mentioned the user experience 
for passkeys. 

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I feel like it's already pretty 
good. 

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Yeah. 
And you bought and you you've 

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spent a lot of time and I've 
ever building out the Fido 

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standards for the user 
experience and you have a whole 

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bunch of documentation. 
Yeah. 

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What is? 
So when you say make it better 

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like what do you mean? 
Well, so I mean it's, it depends

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on your pass key experience, but
the fact of the matter is that 

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every pass key experience needs 
to be an excellent experience, 

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full stop. 
And often times you don't sign 

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in through the front door, 
right? 

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Not everyone enters a website 
through the front. 

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There's a lot of adjacencies 
where you enter, say an Amazon 

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or a PayPal or some of these 
flows are not always for the 

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front door. 
They come in different ways. 

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There's a lot of things to 
contemplate on how someone comes

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to sign it. 
There's also surprisingly large 

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amount of combinations of 
browsers and operating systems 

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and devices where there's still 
some inconsistencies. 

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There's some UX flows that are 
inconsistent with security keys 

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and things like that. 
So like we're aware of these and

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it's a, you know, top priority 
is to identify them, figure out 

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how to solve them and, and to 
solve them. 

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And I, I appreciate the fact 
that you think it's a good 

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experience and you know that 
we've done good work on this, 

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but there's always, you know, 
always work to be done. 

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Yeah, that's user experience to 
me is a lot about ubiquity and 

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consistency. 
I like as you go from place to 

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place pass keys everywhere, but 
if they do it differently then 

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that's going to automatically 
confuse people. 

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Yeah, choosers, right. 
So then the fact of the matter 

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is you can enroll multiple pass 
keys for a service. 

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And I often do this. 
All right, so I live a very 

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heterogeneous life. 
I'll be on honorable passkey on 

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my iPhone. 
I'll do one on my windows, you 

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know, for Windows Hello, and 
I'll do one for my third party 

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credential manager. 
And sometimes, you know, the the

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site doesn't know what to 
present it with. 

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All right, so there's things we 
can, you know, improve on that. 

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And I think again, it's all 
attainable. 

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And I think it's always 
important to bear in mind, we've

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been at this for only a couple 
of years and we're seeing great 

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progress. 
And and these are, you know what

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I'll call lower case G, lower 
case P, growing things, all 

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right, feel really good about 
the progress, but there's always

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work to be done you. 
Just need a better way theme 

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music right for the wrong bands?
So we talked about, we talked 

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about progress in that front, 
but the other question we get, 

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so not just counting statistics,
but qualitative statistics. 

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So we introduced the past the 
index you mentioned that this is

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in response to really a desire 
for benchmarks and I talked to 

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companies a lot who are 
deploying and they might be 

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early in the rollout like hey 
Andrew, look we have a you know 

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say 35% enrolling rate. 
Is that good? 

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You know, our, we've cut our 
signings, you know, time by, you

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know, 75%. 
Is that good? 

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You know, I'm not making those 
numbers up, but like, how do you

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quantify these things, right? 
It's kind of like a stick in the

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space. 
If there's no, you know no 

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context around it, how do you 
know how you're doing? 

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It feels better, but yeah. 
You know, but the fuel is 

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important, but you know, 
quantitative data is even 

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better, right. 
So we're starting to be one 

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start providing benchmarks in 
the industry. 

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So we, we launched a passkey in 
this, which is an initiative 

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comprised of Fido member relying
parties, you know, major service

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providers who have had rollouts 
in market for a bit. 

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And it's only, it's a small in. 
So it's only 9 companies 

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contributed to this, but we took
their, an average of their 

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aggregate data, right? 
So nothing's depended, you know,

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directly to a company, but you 
know, each company's average 

226
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signed a success rate and time 
to sign in and a number of 

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00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,240
metrics. 
We boiled that down into, you 

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00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,480
know, some benchmarks that 
people can be aware of and shoot

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for. 
All right. 

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And so this is our our first 
step of this initiative and we 

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intend to, you know, let this 
grow over time, both as a 

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service to the industry to let 
people know what they should 

233
00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,680
shoot for, but also as a 
benefits of members, right? 

234
00:10:40,680 --> 00:10:43,360
So I think that generally, you 
know, members who contribute 

235
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:44,800
data to this can get data out of
it. 

236
00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,160
There's a lot of data that we 
held back from publishing. 

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00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,040
So we want to make sure that you
know, our our community at 

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00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:52,080
large. 
We're also our membership 

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00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,040
community has what they need to 
be successful, but they're past 

240
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,680
year olds. 
Yeah, that's really cool. 

241
00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:00,200
And he's talked about the 
passkey index this week. 

242
00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,560
We're here at the conference 
authenticate 2025. 

243
00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:05,400
Tell us about it. 
How's it going so? 

244
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,720
Far I've been thrilled, you 
know, so we have more people 

245
00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,800
than ever. 
I think we have around 750 on 

246
00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,720
site maybe which is I think 
we're around 6:50 last year. 

247
00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,000
So you know, nice growth and 
number of attendees. 

248
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We have a lot of people 
attending remotely as well. 

249
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We're one of the few conferences
that still offer a fully remote 

250
00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,160
attendee Which. 
Is great, fully support that. 

251
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Which is great. 
So hey, look, if you just want 

252
00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:29,080
to get the content, you know, 
attend remotely and if you can't

253
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,480
travel, attend remotely also, 
you can get the content. 

254
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,000
We archive all the content, make
it available first to people who

255
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,520
do register and pay. 
So, you know, we're very 

256
00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,000
cognizant of that as well. 
But the people on site get the 

257
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:42,720
whole benefit of being part of 
the community. 

258
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,040
And it sounds like such a cliche
and kind of cheesy, but there is

259
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,400
something pretty special here. 
And you mentioned this before, 

260
00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,720
like there is a real sense of 
community here and people are 

261
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,640
here to help each other. 
And like, if you are interested 

262
00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,600
in authentication and pass keys,
like we're not going to find 

263
00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,960
more capable, smarter people 
that are going to find here in 

264
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,160
our halls. 
And the content is fantastic 

265
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,120
with the hallway con is always a
highlight, right? 

266
00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,680
Seeing people connecting, you 
know, seeing someone who gets to

267
00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:11,440
talk about their deployment, 
spend like half an hour talking 

268
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:12,600
to people, have questions about 
it. 

269
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,880
You know, there's this real 
sense of goodwill and, and, and,

270
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,920
you know, urgency to help each 
other be successful that really 

271
00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:20,520
permeates, you know, the whole 
event here. 

272
00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,480
So I think it's been a good 
event and numbers a couple of 

273
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,840
their data points. 
I think the, and Jimmy mentioned

274
00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,920
this, there's a bigger 
practitioner audience here than 

275
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:31,280
years past. 
And we saw this kind of 

276
00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,960
anecdotally as the registrations
came in, but I'm hearing it from

277
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,880
our vendor hall that they're 
having, you know, more, you 

278
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,320
know, interesting conversations 
with people who are further 

279
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,120
along their deployment, their 
their purchasing journey, very, 

280
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,080
you know, have very poignant 
questions about how to roll out,

281
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,240
you know, Fido infrastructure. 
So you know, more of a 

282
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:49,840
practitioner audience. 
And generally, you know, 

283
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,560
conversations has gotten more 
and more up level while also 

284
00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:56,560
leaving room for new attendees. 
So I think we have around 45% 

285
00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:59,040
new attendees this year, right? 
That doesn't mean they're new to

286
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:00,320
pass keys means they're new 
attendees. 

287
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,400
But you know, people have all 
skill sets who are coming here 

288
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,960
to learn to advance their 
deployments and then move 

289
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,320
forward as well. 
So been really happy on that 

290
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,800
front with the show so far. 
Yeah, I wrote the practitioners.

291
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:15,080
That's the one thing I'd say I 
felt that is the most different 

292
00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:16,400
from past years. 
Yeah, like a. 

293
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,600
Whole bunch of people who are 
new to the conference. 

294
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,640
In the beginning of the show, I 
kind of tried to think out loud 

295
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:30,400
about what I'm kind of holding 
all these pieces together to 

296
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,840
paint the picture of what 
authenticates all about how 

297
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,000
close did I come? 
What would you change? 

298
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:39,760
But I think you hit it on the 
head. 

299
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,320
I mean, so it's, it's about, you
know, well, the name of the show

300
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,160
is authenticate. 
So it's about authentication. 

301
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,600
I mean, it's at its core, it's 
about authentication. 

302
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,640
So I want to talk about what 
we're doing next, next. 

303
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,800
So it's a place to learn about 
all things authentication with a

304
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,680
focus on the Fido approach. 
I think that's our our mission 

305
00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:58,560
statement. 
And so no matter where you are 

306
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:00,440
in your pass key journey, your 
authentication journey, you're 

307
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:01,400
going to learn something here, 
right? 

308
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,320
You're going to learn something 
by listening to practitioners 

309
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,600
give case studies. 
We're going to learn about 

310
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:07,960
different use cases. 
We're going to learn about 

311
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:09,000
futures. 
You're going to learn about 

312
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,920
adjacencies, you're going to 
learn about authorization and 

313
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,880
new standards and payments and 
agentic AI and all these things 

314
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,520
that are, you know, you need to 
authenticate first to sign into 

315
00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:19,720
things to take advantage of 
this. 

316
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:21,720
But these are all the things 
we're covering. 

317
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:27,160
You know, one thing we've 
changed through the years and 

318
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,320
some of the feedback we got last
year is like, OK, I get it, 

319
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:30,840
pass. 
These are great, but I don't 

320
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,280
need case study after case study
saying like passkeys are 

321
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:34,280
amazing. 
So we actually got more 

322
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:35,760
selective. 
It's not just like a, a 

323
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,680
cheerleading session. 
We turned down some amazing case

324
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,280
studies that would have been 
fantastic. 

325
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,560
But like we can only do so much 
of like I use passkeys, I save 

326
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:45,360
money as you know. 
So there's only so much that we 

327
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:46,720
could do. 
So we try to get sharper with 

328
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,520
some of the angles looking up. 
People are coming back a second 

329
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,720
time talking about what's 
happened, you know, on stage 2 

330
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,120
of their deployment. 
So you know, we've evolved the 

331
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,320
kind of message we have around 
this as our audience has matured

332
00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,480
also. 
And then the other key theme 

333
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,200
we're seeing here are the 
adjacencies. 

334
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,280
So part of my keynote that you 
mentioned is Jeff, I talked 

335
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,240
about like where we've come from
and where we're heading. 

336
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,200
I guess kind of the headline 
here is that we are, you know, 

337
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,920
intentionally kind of broadening
our focus to look at digital 

338
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,320
credentials. 
And so we've been focused on 

339
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,720
like the broader identity life 
cycle for a couple years now, 

340
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,040
but their IDV certificate, 
identity verification 

341
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,360
certification, which allows for 
like what Jim was talking about 

342
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,760
for possession based onboarding 
and recovery and, you know, 

343
00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,160
certifying products against 
that. 

344
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,440
But the digital credentials and 
wallet space is an area where 

345
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,320
you've got a lot of feedbacks at
where we could probably add some

346
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,160
value. 
All right, I think everyone can 

347
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,240
understand the value and the 
vision of digital credentials 

348
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,920
for like literally your wallet, 
your physical wallet is 

349
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,720
digitized like no different than
like right now, you do mobile 

350
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,960
payments, that's a digitization 
of your, of your credit card, 

351
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,040
but why not your identity and 
your passport and your diploma 

352
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,280
and your fishing license, 
whatever else you need to have 

353
00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,400
digitized is all there, right 
And accessible to you, rooted 

354
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,440
in, you know, a trusted, you 
know, proof of real world 

355
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,760
identity that allows you to, to 
leverage this in a, in a very 

356
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,800
nimble, you know, efficient 
fashion. 

357
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,240
So everyone's had this vision 
for literally for decades. 

358
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,840
We have governments, we have 
pushing on this to happen. 

359
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,120
You know, a lot of states have 
mobile driver's licenses here in

360
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,480
the United States, more famously
than Europe. 

361
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,160
You know, the European Union is 
pushing every member state to 

362
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,160
have digital wallets by the end 
of 2026. 

363
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,760
So what's been holding us back 
is not, you know, vision or 

364
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,080
ambition, but what's been 
holding it back, I think is, you

365
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,120
know, there there's things that 
we could do to unlock this, 

366
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:36,720
right? 
And then I think that's what 

367
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,640
we're focused on doing is 
bringing the three things that 

368
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,240
Fido Alliance does and does very
well into this space. 

369
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,240
You know, we do as an alliance, 
you know, we create technical 

370
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,840
specifications, we run marketing
and enablement programs, and we 

371
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,120
run a certification program that
really unlocks the value of open

372
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,040
standards. 
So you think about passkeys, 

373
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,520
right? 
We have CTAP and web auth N we 

374
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,640
certified products against those
B to B products people can 

375
00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,000
deploy against and enablement. 
And that was a passkey moment. 

376
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,800
All right, So like web auth and 
five O 2 existed before 

377
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,200
passkey's. 
But when we came up with the 

378
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,000
passkey, you know, the brand, 
the logo program, the user 

379
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,319
guidelines, all of a sudden they
gave a name and some commonality

380
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:15,119
to what people have been doing. 
And it really spurred all the 

381
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,480
growth that we've been seeing 
that with passkey's. 

382
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:22,200
So we've been talking to major 
issuers, digital credentials, 

383
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,920
major consumers, digital 
credentials about, you know, 

384
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,280
what do they see hold the market
back? 

385
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:30,120
And and yeah, we think there's 
opportunity for us to provide 

386
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:33,320
value there alongside partner 
organizations like Open ID 

387
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,680
Foundation and ISO. 
So you mentioned Europe and Jim 

388
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,200
and I were at the EIC conference
in Berlin. 

389
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:42,040
Yeah. 
Earlier this year. 

390
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,560
Great. 
Conference, what struck me is 

391
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,280
how far ahead they are when it 
comes to digitalization of their

392
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,840
credentials. 
So you mentioned, you know, the 

393
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,000
the EU and a member nations need
to have something in place. 

394
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,560
One of the things I learned 
there was there's actually a 

395
00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,280
financial implication if they 
don't do it, it's some sort of 

396
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:04,160
fine or tax or something that, 
you know, the country has to pay

397
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,480
if they don't do it. 
By that time I was like, OK, 

398
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,360
well, that's that's one way to 
get people motivated. 

399
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,280
I don't know if that works, 
right. 

400
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,440
Yeah, I don't know how that 
would work in the US because we 

401
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,520
see the fragmentation with 
mobile drivers license, for 

402
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,920
example. 
So trying to get, you know, 50 

403
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,800
States and territories plus 
territories, right, to try and 

404
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,720
get on the same path I think 
everyone wants. 

405
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,120
To do that, like what? 
Do you see as holding back like 

406
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:29,520
that specific theory? 
Is it just that the politics and

407
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:31,320
or is it something else? 
No, I think. 

408
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,400
It's the one thing we want to 
look at doing is providing some 

409
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,280
sort of wallet certification, 
right? 

410
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:36,640
And so there's different 
protocols out. 

411
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,320
There's ISO protocol, there's 
Openty foundation protocol, We 

412
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,760
have a protocol that can be used
for, you know, credential 

413
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,040
presentation across devices. 
These are all things that can be

414
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,320
used for as, as part of a 
wallet. 

415
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,800
And I think that there's a lack 
of, we feel like there's a value

416
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,760
to be added like by by launching
A certification program, you 

417
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,560
know, for wallets, for the 
wallet providers and for the 

418
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,560
relying parties as well. 
And that's the type of thing 

419
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,840
that could start to kind of help
catalyze the space a little bit 

420
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,320
to help move things forward. 
So wallets are one area. 

421
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:12,320
I think there's also like no 
one's focused on usability, not 

422
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,200
enough folks on usability. 
There's been some great work 

423
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,360
like on the, on the US front, 
like the mobile driver's license

424
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:19,800
front, you know, STA Secure 
Technology Alliance has done 

425
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,840
some really good kind of 
sessions on talking about NBL 

426
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,640
use cases, how there's been some
inner OPS that have happened. 

427
00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:30,200
But it's, it's, you know, it's 
part part, you know, pieces 

428
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,400
here, pieces there. 
And I think that, you know, 

429
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,160
final lines brings to the 
tables, right, sort of 

430
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:36,680
stakeholders to work with. 
Companies like that, 

431
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,960
organizations like that just 
bring greater focus on the 

432
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,760
enablement aspects of of making 
digital credentials a reality, 

433
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,840
you know, throughout the world. 
Feels like you had some early 

434
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,120
adopters. 
I know the one company, I know 

435
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:55,000
it's not their full name, but 
Docomo, you know, if they, they 

436
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,000
were the early adopters, then 
you had a lot of big tech 

437
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,680
adoption where basically all the
platforms bought in on on this 

438
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:07,360
passkey process. 
To me, like that's the the head 

439
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:09,880
of Steam that needs to get 
around everything. 

440
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,440
But now that you're at that 
point, it seems like it's just 

441
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,520
going to roll. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

442
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:15,720
With Pat. 
I mean, I feel like we're making

443
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,520
really good progress with 
Passkey's and it's the set of 

444
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,800
stakeholders that we have in the
alliance that helps makes this 

445
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,480
happen. 
I think we're, you know, 

446
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,880
incredibly unique in the sense 
that we're very fortunate to 

447
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,920
have a broad set of 
organizations, right. 

448
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,840
So all the major platforms, the 
device manufacturers, leaders 

449
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,680
and identity and you know, 
security technology governments 

450
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,560
or members of Fido Alliance. 
And then last but not least, 

451
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,000
like the service providers who 
need Fido to succeed, right. 

452
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,760
And then they've really driven a
lot of the use cases and driven 

453
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,600
a lot of the adoption of 
passkeys in the market. 

454
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,240
And so then we as a life, you 
know, look at what we've done 

455
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,000
and we've also done other work 
also like in credential exchange

456
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,920
powder device on board. 
So we've proven that we can 

457
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,760
execute on passkeys, but also, 
you know, adjacent spaces. 

458
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,600
So as our stakeholders got 
together, you know, then they 

459
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,880
talk about what what you know, 
where are some other common pain

460
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,320
points. 
You know, one of them was around

461
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,760
digital credentials, right? 
And they feel like, you know, 

462
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,560
they like collaborating inside a
fighter alliance. 

463
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,560
We want to be more collaboration
and that's really they're the 

464
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,160
ones really pushing for us to 
take on this very important work

465
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,200
and we will take on this work 
and we'll execute against that. 

466
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,720
Do you think that for this to 
move forward, you still need to 

467
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,240
continue to have the major 
players like Google, Apple, 

468
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,480
Microsoft, right? 
They when those three died 

469
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,840
involved with pass keys, that 
was like, OK, now we're getting 

470
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,360
somewhere. 
Is it similar for wallets? 

471
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,120
Obviously Apple Pay is huge. 
You've got Samsung wallet, 

472
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:39,720
you've got Android wallet. 
I don't think Microsoft has a 

473
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,520
wallet. 
And so much infrastructure 

474
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,400
actually. 
So Apple, Google, Microsoft, 

475
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,560
Samsung Paytal, Visa, 
MasterCard, anti to Docomo, 

476
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,520
different mobile operators. 
And in Korea we have SK Telecom.

477
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,480
Yeah, well, so like, literally. 
Like, right. 

478
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,080
If you forget one, then we'll 
yeah, yeah. 

479
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,760
There's a lot we have a lot of, 
but like really those are the 

480
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,240
the types of companies that have
a very vested interest in, in 

481
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,120
seeing this space. 
A lock. 

482
00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:05,640
Right. 
And, and, and it's a never as 

483
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,960
interest to see this space 
mature and, and happen, You 

484
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,240
know, this stands to increase 
commerce and reduce fraud, 

485
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:13,000
right? 
And so I think one of the 

486
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,200
biggest challenges that like 
payment networks have, or, you 

487
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,320
know, payment companies like a 
PayPal is, is fraud, right? 

488
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,560
And also they want to be wallet,
they can beat wallet providers. 

489
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,680
So they're supposed kind of cost
savings and financial 

490
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,760
opportunity with digital 
credentials. 

491
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,640
And so, you know, to be clear, 
these companies wants to do 

492
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,440
this, you know, not, you know, 
yes, it's for the sake of 

493
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,840
society, but it's for their 
benefit as well. 

494
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,280
And that's, that's the whole 
point of standards, right? 

495
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:38,880
Standards are not all about 
altruism. 

496
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,480
It's about, you know, basically 
deciding like, hey, look, we're 

497
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,080
going to commoditize a certain 
level of technology and compete 

498
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,000
on top of that so that we can 
all be more efficient in in how 

499
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,680
we invest our R&D and how we 
compete and how we deliver 

500
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,720
better services to the world at 
large. 

501
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:52,920
And that's what standards are 
about. 

502
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,000
That's what Fido's about. 
And that's where that's where 

503
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,640
we're doing pass keys that that 
will aim to do with our partners

504
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,640
in the ecosystem with Wallace 
and credentials. 

505
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,720
That predictability is a big, 
big part of this, right? 

506
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,120
Is here's what to expect. 
You know it's going to be this 

507
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,080
format or whatever, right 
process, and having the ability 

508
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,920
to count on that is such a big 
part of the experience. 

509
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,040
Yes, yeah, absolutely. 
So the conference is called the 

510
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:17,960
Fennecate. 
Yes. 

511
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,840
Now we're moving into identity 
verification. 

512
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:21,960
Are we keeping the name 
authenticate or are we going to 

513
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,080
try to come up with something 
new like how's that going to? 

514
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:25,040
Work. 
Yeah, we, we don't, we don't 

515
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:26,960
have plans to change the name 
authenticate, but I think. 

516
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,280
Oh, you don't have the domain 
name right, So. 

517
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,040
But. 
But I think that, you know, it's

518
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,200
important for us to get the word
out as we plan for next year's 

519
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,960
show that we'll be talking about
authenticate and more 

520
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,400
authentication and more. 
And actually, if you look at the

521
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,360
agenda this year, there's a lot 
of good content on visual 

522
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:45,280
credentials, on agentic AI, on 
payments, on automotive, right? 

523
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,440
So other things, again, 
authentication is the front door

524
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,080
for a lot of these things. 
Passkeys are a front door for a 

525
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,200
lot of these things. 
But also there are other 

526
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,760
applications, other use cases 
and full, full adjacencies to 

527
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,680
passkeys that we will address. 
And we'll want to get the word 

528
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,200
out to people that if you want 
to talk about those things, you 

529
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,280
know, authenticate's a great 
place to come to talk about them

530
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,240
with the experts. 
So you've got other conferences 

531
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:07,760
as well, right? 
So this is the one that's in 

532
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,920
Carlsbad. 
Yes, there's one in Asia. 

533
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:10,840
I think that's going to take 
one. 

534
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,720
Yes. 
Well, we are announcing this 

535
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,200
week, so will have been 
announced by the time this airs 

536
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,720
that we are launching 
authenticate APEC in Singapore 

537
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:24,360
in June of 2026, I think June 
2nd through 4th. 

538
00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:28,160
Double check those dates before 
you book travel Tuesday through 

539
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:29,880
Thursday in Singapore. 
Yeah. 

540
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,200
So we're very excited to expand 
the brand into Asia. 

541
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,840
In 2023 and 2024. 
We had something called the Fido

542
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,240
EPAC Summit. 
The first one is hosted in 

543
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,480
Vietnam, the next one in Kuala 
Lumpur, Malaysia. 

544
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,760
Both are fantastic events, kind 
of regional events. 

545
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,400
We had probably 3-4 hundred 
people attend both of those, 

546
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,120
which is very inspiring to see, 
you know, traveling halfway 

547
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:57,880
around the world to see people 
who are super interested to 

548
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,160
learn about Fido and how to 
deploy Fido and how to deploy 

549
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,400
pass keys. 
So we're basically just kind of 

550
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,200
extending the Fido and the 
Authenticate brand into that 

551
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,560
activity, tying into our member 
meeting that happens at the same

552
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,480
time in Singapore next year. 
So we're very excited to kind of

553
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,840
take that next step at this 
conference and with our broader 

554
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,520
Fido community. 
So last question is this, what 

555
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,760
do you notice as a is the 
biggest difference between the 

556
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,200
US audience when it comes to 
fight alliance and pass keys and

557
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,720
not any verification versus 
audiences in other parts of the 

558
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,680
world you've had these 
conversations like do you notice

559
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,600
anything different? 
But the audiences? 

560
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,160
Yeah. 
I mean more like is their 

561
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,520
interest in different spots? 
Are they having different 

562
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:42,720
messages? 
Like what's the? 

563
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:43,960
Yeah, I don't. 
It's hard. 

564
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,720
To generalize, you know, like 
you said, like in Europe for 

565
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,000
example, and lots tied to 
digital identity, like what can 

566
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,000
I do like closer to kind of 
government oriented 

567
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,960
applications. 
Although you know, I talked to 

568
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,160
the good folks from Abalka, you 
know, the Spanish bank, they 

569
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,120
were here this week and you 
know, they're expanding their 

570
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:00,760
pass key rollout. 
So a lot of the same consumer 

571
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,280
applications are happening, you 
know, in Europe as are happening

572
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,240
here, but it's probably more of 
a kind of regulatory lean in 

573
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,640
Asia, you know, there may be 
some more mobile first type 

574
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,120
experiences and Southeast Asia 
has some more emerging country 

575
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:17,000
emerging opportunities. 
But we were down in Australia 

576
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,200
this year in February in like 
Australia, just like, you know, 

577
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,080
on the bleeding edge of a 
passkey adoption. 

578
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,440
All right. 
So like U Bank, which is the 

579
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:31,760
subsidiary of NAB, A&Z Bank, you
know, are also committing to or 

580
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,400
supporting passkeys. 
Now there's conversation today 

581
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,120
from Vicroads, which is like the
equivalent of the state of 

582
00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:40,360
Victoria's DMV about how they've
moved to like they're moving 

583
00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:42,320
towards 80% adoption of 
passkeys. 

584
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,760
So if the adoption in Australia 
is phenomenal. 

585
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,480
So long answer short, it's hard 
to generalize, but the good news

586
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,920
is we're seeing adoption go all 
over the place. 

587
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,200
And the one area that we've yet 
to really engage with where 

588
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,160
there's a lot of activities in 
Brazil, right? 

589
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,960
So to take part in the open 
banking, open finance activity 

590
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,080
in Brazil, you need to have a 
Fido 2 certified server. 

591
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,360
So there are dozens of banks in 
Brazil that are now Fido 

592
00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:09,240
certified. 
Every mobile payment there is 

593
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,720
using the passkey or a body 
mobile payment, I shouldn't say 

594
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,440
every, a lot of mobile payments 
they are using passkeys, just 

595
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,760
pay as a new member of Fight 
Alliance, they're driving a lot 

596
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,760
of that work along with Visa in 
Brazil. 

597
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,280
So there's a lot of activity in 
South America as well. 

598
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,520
So look, I think what we've done
as an alliance with our 

599
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,200
stakeholders is, you know, put 
great technology out to market, 

600
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,960
you know, make it available to 
people, building in devices that

601
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,920
everyone can use. 
And as a result, you know, we 

602
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,880
collectively are starting to 
address the password problem, 

603
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,120
which has really plagued the 
role for decades, decades. 

604
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:42,920
Yeah. 
Really. 

605
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,560
Literally. 
Yeah, like. 

606
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,560
Yes, it's a very dawn of. 
Time, yeah. 

607
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,440
Yeah. 
And The thing is like we've been

608
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,240
aware of the the challenge for 
you know, 20 something years, 

609
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,560
which is when the MFA first 
started coming out, right. 

610
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,160
And the answer has always been 
like how to make passwords Sup 

611
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,960
less with more, more layers. 
And that's that's a good short 

612
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:02,680
term answer was as we know 
that's not sustainable. 

613
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,080
So passkeys are a password 
replacement. 

614
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,040
And you know, the reason we're 
seeing adoption at the scale 

615
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,240
we're seeing it is because they 
work, they provide returns. 

616
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,320
And again, that's where we're 
starting to quantify with the 

617
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,640
passkey index. 
We're trying to reinforce that 

618
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,160
was shows like this with things 
like Passkey Central to help 

619
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,480
companies and organizations move
their passkey implementations 

620
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,920
forward so that ultimately you 
know, this is all you know in in

621
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,640
the name of, of creating a safer
Internet. 

622
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,520
It's been an amazing ride for 
the last few years and I, I just

623
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,760
want to say thank you for your 
support of this show. 

624
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:36,320
You know, had it been on so many
times. 

625
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,480
I know you're a busy guy, so 
trying to carve out time for you

626
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,480
with this type of thing is 
always fun. 

627
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,920
We did Fido feud you did last 
night. 

628
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,800
It ended in a tie. 
I'm not sure how to feel about 

629
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,000
it yet. 
The guarantees to repeat for. 

630
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,480
I kind of think it was fixed. 
We certainly can't cut fight a 

631
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,080
few now. 
Right now has to come back 

632
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,680
because there's a tie, you know,
so. 

633
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,000
We have to come up with like 
Brandy for it. 

634
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,040
I'm I'm already kind of leaning 
to fight a feud, fight a feud 

635
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,240
2026, the rematch of the 
rematch. 

636
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,120
Oh well, there's something like 
rematch, but your your team has 

637
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,440
been great to work with. 
Give a shout out to Adrian. 

638
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,920
She was awesome with all time 
and she she manned the sound 

639
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,640
effects. 
So I don't think by the time 

640
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,880
this episode goes like people 
won't have that as an episode, 

641
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,640
but we'll help to get that out 
by the end of the year. 

642
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,800
But it was so much fun. 
So thank you for. 

643
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,360
Letting us we have a great team 
of Fido Alliance and I couldn't 

644
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,920
think more highly my colleagues.
It's really an honor to work 

645
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,160
with them. 
Also, everyone's very passionate

646
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,280
about what we do. 
We believe what we're doing. 

647
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,760
You know, ask everyone who works
with us to, you know, first of 

648
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,280
all, sign up to believe in the 
mission and be missionary about 

649
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:38,000
it. 
And everyone is. 

650
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,920
And so we take a lot of pride in
what we do. 

651
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,120
And I think it shows here at the
show and everything that the the

652
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,280
Fido team does, it's. 
Been great. 

653
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,000
So we'll go ahead and leave it 
there. 

654
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,800
I think for this week, 
idcpodcast.com, idcpodcast.tv 

655
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:53,760
for the YouTube and the all that
good stuff. 

656
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,160
So like and subscribe. 
Let's bring back Andrew for 11 

657
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,360
probably in a couple months and 
yeah, we'll leave it there. 

658
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,560
So thanks everyone for watching 
and are listening. 

659
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,000
Andrew, thank you for your time.
Thanks guys. 

660
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,000
And we'll talk with everyone in 
the next one. 

661
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,520
You've been listening to 
Identity at the Center. 

662
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,000
We hope you've enjoyed the show.
Make sure to like, rate and 

663
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,600
review, and we'll be back soon. 
But in the meantime, hit the 

664
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,000
website at 
identity@thecenter.com. 

665
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,720
See you next time on Identity at
the Center.