1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:11,280 This is identity at the center. Welcome to the Identical Center 2 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,480 podcast. I'm Jeff and I am falling solo 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,680 today. So today we've got a sponsored 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,080 episode for you. We have these conversations from 5 00:00:18,080 --> 00:00:20,800 time to time with some of our partners in the industry to get 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,760 some more insights into how they approach the market, maybe some 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,960 of the technologies and tools and capabilities and thoughts 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:27,360 and ideas that they bring to the table. 9 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,480 So without further ado, let me introduce today's sponsor. 10 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,960 We've got Natoma, It's Natoma dot IDNATOMA and I want to 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,000 welcome to the show for the first time, Paresh Bhaiya. 12 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,200 He's the Co founder of Natoma. So welcome to the show, Paresh. 13 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:41,480 Thank you, Jeff. Thank you. 14 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,920 Really an honor to be here. Been listening to IDAC for a 15 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,120 really long time. Really, really a big fan and I'm 16 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:52,760 glad to be joining you guys today. 17 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:54,600 Yeah. Well, we appreciate you taking 18 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:55,760 the time. I know that you're currently in 19 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,440 India, so it's like two or three AM is the time we're recording 20 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,240 this. So we're kind of joking before 21 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:01,880 we hit record here. That's like, all right, it's the 22 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:03,520 middle of your day. And so it's either uphill or 23 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,680 downhill from here, depending on which way you want to look at 24 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,480 it. I have no idea which way is 25 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,480 going to go, but it all depends on how how the next 30 minutes 26 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,520 go. All right, fair enough. 27 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,560 Well, why don't we start with your background? 28 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,520 So one of the things we'd like to ask our guests the first time 29 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,080 they've been on the show with us is how they got into identity. 30 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,520 So I'd love to hear your identity origin story. 31 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,000 Is it something that you chose or did it choose you? 32 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,040 I would have to definitely say the the field chose me. 33 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:38,360 It it's sort of both, but it definitely the field chose me. 34 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,920 I mean by background, just as a quick background, I'm engineered 35 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,120 by education was a software developer. 36 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,280 I was in secure networking, network security, wireless 37 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,960 security, and I was working at Salesforce under the Seesaw 38 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,320 organization. And that's where like, you know, 39 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,040 cloud was the transition from like network security to cloud 40 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,120 security and identity was like, you know, that's the next big 41 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,639 thing and identity security is becoming big and somehow just 42 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:14,760 got into identity. And the next step from sales was 43 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,000 was at Octa. Of course, Octa is identity 44 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:23,280 company was PMM leading PMM product strategy for the new age 45 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,520 products in a way. Having said that, I definitely 46 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,800 agree the field kind of picked me as much as it was very 47 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,000 concentrated effort on my end to go into identity. 48 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,720 I definitely have to give a shout out to Identity at the 49 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,080 Center. I've been listening to you guys 50 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,760 for a really long time during my Twitter days, if you may. 51 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:51,000 When I used to run, I used to put on IDAC and go for a quick 52 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,320 run, and that was some always. As I was thinking of Identity 53 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,720 and Identity becoming the center of the security world listening 54 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,200 to you guys, I felt like maybe I should really somehow try to get 55 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,640 into Identity. But here I am. 56 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,840 Well, I appreciate that flattery will get you everywhere on this 57 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:10,840 show, so definitely off to it. It's a. 58 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:13,560 It's a true story. Trust me. 59 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:18,680 I do remember even I had actually even at sales force I 60 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:23,600 took and taken identity role or I was working under Ian's 61 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,600 leisure. Of course everybody knows Ian 62 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,720 and the identity ward was working with him and I was 63 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,480 trying to get into the identity side and I used to listen to you 64 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:37,240 guys and I actually leverage stuff that heard I heard on this 65 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:43,200 podcast over number of sessions, so over the period of time, so. 66 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,480 That's super cool. I, I mean, that's very 67 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,160 flattering for me. So I, I definitely appreciate 68 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,520 that you're kind of coming on at a momentous time for us. 69 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,160 So when this airs will have been around for about 6 years now, 70 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:55,720 which is pretty crazy if you think about it. 71 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,400 And I would have thought we'd have run out of stuff to talk 72 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,760 about that like 50 episodes, but here we are. 73 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,240 This should be, I think, episode 363. 74 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,240 You're kind of around there. I do want to talk a little bit 75 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,280 about Natoma itself because I've seen some of the things you guys 76 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,200 have working on. I met up with Mira and some 77 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:16,440 others in Idanoverse recently and you've got a great team 78 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:17,680 there that you're kind of working on this. 79 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,320 But I want to give you an opportunity to kind of tell us 80 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,360 about Natoma itself. So tell me, you know, give me 81 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,640 the the elevator pitch for what it is that Natoma does in the 82 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:27,080 market, especially for the identity stuff. 83 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,840 No, actually, Natoma, we basically help enterprises 84 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,760 accelerate their AI adoption without really compromising 85 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,800 security. And we really think of it as I 86 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,320 was been saying, identity is at the center of security. 87 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:51,520 So how do we really kind of think about all of that identity 88 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,840 pieces as you accelerate AI agent adoption? 89 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:58,880 How do you really make sure security is not compromised? 90 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,320 And that means authentication, authorization, the access. 91 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,480 And we are going into a world of where these agents will start 92 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:13,000 acting on behalf of humans, doing stuff on its own. 93 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,960 And if you get into that part, you really want the right level 94 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,440 of authentication authorization and that's what Natoma does 95 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:26,160 really help exploit AI agent adoption, but security being 96 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,400 that that amount there. I mean, it seems like it's a 97 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,440 pretty good time to be getting into that considering the the 98 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,720 way that a Jetta guy has really exploded recently here. 99 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,120 Yeah, I definitely agree to that. 100 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,600 I mean, I don't know if it's the right time to get into it, but 101 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,920 we are definitely at at that inflection point where you 102 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,280 really need to make sure you have right security guardrails 103 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:49,800 as you're thinking about. I mean, Gen. 104 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,080 AI definitely changes the game in many, many ways. 105 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,400 And especially if you think about it, we've just been using 106 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,800 from a consumer standpoint as enterprises start really 107 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,960 adopting Gen. AI, be it for Productivity 108 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,640 Tools, be it for like, you know, simplifying all the work flows 109 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:12,040 that you have, it really, really elevates the game. 110 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,840 And if it if you're really thinking about, as I was saying, 111 00:06:14,840 --> 00:06:17,920 the world where these agents start operating and executing 112 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:23,000 and planning for you, security, authentication, authorization, 113 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,000 all of that becomes super critical tell. 114 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,360 Me about the name Natoma. I almost always curious about 115 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:30,800 the names of products in this space. 116 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,040 What does natoma mean? Does it mean anything? 117 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:34,040 Like, how'd you come up with that? 118 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:36,760 It's a great name, right? What do you think of the name? 119 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:38,760 I don't even know what to think about. 120 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,720 It's so unique that I don't have like a a definition or even 121 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,320 associated with in my brain. That's why I'm like, where did 122 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,760 this come from? So I'll tell you the actual 123 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,400 meaning of the name. So Natoma actually means 124 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,960 Clearwater in Native American language. 125 00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:01,400 There's a lake called Lake Natoma near Sacramento and 126 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:07,120 that's very unique name. One of the criterias was to make 127 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,400 sure the name that we pick for the company, it's very easy to 128 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:15,520 pronounce. And coming from India, English 129 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,520 as a second language, the world is flat. 130 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,240 You're working with lot of different parts of the world. 131 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,400 It should be no matter where you are from, what accent you have, 132 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,760 it should be very very easy to pronounce. 133 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:31,640 But the real story if you want to know. 134 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,480 Of course, yeah. Yeah, it there is the bar called 135 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,160 Natoma Cabana right behind of Octa. 136 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,120 As I mentioned, I was at Octa and right behind Octa, my Co 137 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:47,040 founders are also from Octa and we used to go to the bar and 138 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,760 that's where we used to go. Think about this talk about 139 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:52,720 this. There's a street called Natoma 140 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,800 right behind Octa, which leads to that bar called Natoma 141 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:00,400 Cabana. And we used to walk there and 142 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,960 walk to the bar. Lot of different, lot of long 143 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:07,200 chats, lot of long meetings, lot of different meetings meeting 144 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:12,320 different people around the AI space on how to do it, of course 145 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,760 with a glass of beer in hand. And as you were kind of starting 146 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:17,760 off, you were thinking of a name for the company. 147 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:22,800 And we said, why not Potomac? It's all the criterias that I 148 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,600 put in place like a, it should be very easy to pronounce it 149 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:27,680 short. It should be unique. 150 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,880 And we said this is the name, we love it and we go there. 151 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:33,799 That's super cool. I love hearing like these 152 00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:36,600 stories behind the scenes. So I got to ask this bar. 153 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,559 The bar is named Natoma as well. The bar is called Natoma Cabana. 154 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:44,200 All right, so do you use the Natoma like company name to like 155 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,360 try to get free drinks or something Like, hey, we're going 156 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,200 to name our company if you know you'll give us a little 157 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:49,520 something at the bar every once in a while. 158 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,880 You know, I've met so many people at the bar. 159 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:57,880 The actually literally couple of weekends back I met someone, I 160 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,760 was at a wedding and the person was like, you remember, Yeah, we 161 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,840 met at that bar. We were talking about it. 162 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,760 What was the bar name? I'm like, yeah, Natoma. 163 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,400 That was the bar we used to everybody meet. 164 00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:12,200 We haven't told the bar yet that we called ourselves behind them 165 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,360 on inspired by the name. Hopefully they don't come back 166 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:21,000 and sue us, you know, or come back for some check saying hey 167 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,480 you guys, we were the inspiration, so pay us back. 168 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:26,480 OK. Well, I'll get off that subject 169 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,760 just to not draw any more light to that, just to kind of protect 170 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,280 that. Let me put my Jaden CSO hat on 171 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,960 though here because I feel like there's so many different 172 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,200 security tools out there, it is impossible to keep up with 173 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,800 everything and especially in the identity space that seems like 174 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,200 there's something new all the time. 175 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,560 I'm going to ask you a hard question here. 176 00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:46,320 If you maybe use some of those flattery points is so tell me 177 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,640 what is it that makes Natoma different or special or unique 178 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,080 on how you approach the problems you're solving versus the others 179 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:54,960 in the market that that you would consider? 180 00:09:55,400 --> 00:10:00,360 I have to say, I would say these things that really makes us puts 181 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,560 us apart, right? It's uniquely blending that 182 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:09,720 efficiency with security, right. Our platform is we really 183 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,000 believe in that one click deployment model, right. 184 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:18,480 You know, Amazon kind of started that and everybody wants to do 185 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:19,880 it. So have that one click 186 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,840 deployment model, but also with like flexible deployment, like 187 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,480 you know, it's not just a hosting platform, you're not a 188 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:31,120 infrastructure, but then you blend that with like the right 189 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,800 level of security, right level of authorization, right level of 190 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,000 access controls in place, right? So that's number one. 191 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,520 Number two is we are really, really focused on end to end, 192 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,800 right? Like the end to end user 193 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,240 experience, not only just from like an admin experience, but 194 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,320 even from like end user employees of an enterprise 195 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,760 trying to use that making sure that end to end user experience 196 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,200 is really good. I hate to use this analogy, but 197 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,560 we've taken the the iPhone approach right. 198 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,280 You don't need a manual to use an iPhone. 199 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,880 In fact, my being in India, my grandma also uses an iPhone, 200 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:16,840 right? Anybody can use an iPhone. 201 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,040 That's the approach you've really taken. 202 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,680 And the biggest and the best part is policy enforcement, 203 00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:27,440 right? Like you really need, as this AI 204 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,840 agents get bigger and bigger and as the proliferation happens, 205 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,960 you really need like that dynamic access controls. 206 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:39,240 You want to ensure like every agent has the right level of 207 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,680 access and the humans interacting with that agent have 208 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:47,560 the right level of authorization on the actions they are taking. 209 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:52,440 And as the world gets into like, you know, agentic AI where the 210 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,920 agents are acting on behalf of humans, they have the right 211 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,440 level of authorization. So it's that policy enforcement 212 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,120 point. We that is where we kind of 213 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:07,200 bring in the the unique selling point differentiation for us in 214 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,040 a way. They talk about that sort of 215 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,520 explosion of the number of AI agents that are out there. 216 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,280 And I guess as we get into this world of agentic AI that is 217 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,600 being thrust upon us, really there are so many different 218 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:20,840 things. Is that is that the main 219 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:22,640 problem? Is it, is it the scale, Is it 220 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,280 the volume that these things are happening? 221 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,440 Are there other parts of the broader landscape of agentic AI 222 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,920 that we also need to solve? Like what are your thoughts on 223 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,280 just what are the problems to solve for agentic AI from an 224 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:40,440 identity perspective? I mean, it's the, if I were to 225 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,720 think about it a little bit more, right, even before the 226 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:49,200 scale and all of that piece, it's it's the discovery, right? 227 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:53,600 Like you have your shadow AI that's happening these days. 228 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,400 What do I mean by a shadow AI? It's like you're AE going and 229 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,280 connecting something to your zoom and going and connecting 230 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:05,960 something to your sales force. And you think that, hey, that's 231 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,560 what's the big B that, but it's, it has access to what Jeff has 232 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:13,080 access to, right? And what is it? 233 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,640 Where is the data? What data is pulling? 234 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,040 What kind of things you put? So that that shadow AI, the 235 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:24,160 shadow MCP discovery, that becomes really, really important 236 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,640 first and foremost. And then once you kind of go 237 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,280 beyond that, once you start getting, you know, a little bit 238 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:36,280 control around it, the the second piece that really comes 239 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,440 in is like, how do you make sure it's super easy to use? 240 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:44,000 And it's, it's actually delivering value from like an 241 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,720 enterprise perspective, not just that, Oh, it's, it's so cool and 242 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,920 it can look what it can do, but can it really actually go solve 243 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:58,680 some of these problems in a way? And the the last piece that is 244 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,400 definitely top of mind is like, you know, with with new 245 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:08,120 technologies, with new protocols, new threats coming. 246 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,160 And how do we really before this becomes like such a big problem 247 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,920 and such proliferation happens. How do you really make sure that 248 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,000 you have the right level of guard rails and right level of 249 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,480 security in place for the new threats that are emerging? 250 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,080 And new threats. Some of them we know. 251 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,160 Some of them we don't even know about, you know? 252 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,760 Yes, yeah, it's, it's very hard to protect against the unknown 253 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,280 right now. But there are certainly things 254 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,160 that we know. You mentioned things like MCP 255 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,600 model, contacts protocol and there's new, that's a new 256 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,400 standard that's coming around. There's A to a you also 257 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,760 mentioned the time to value. And before I get to MCP and A to 258 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,520 AII, do want to understand like, how is it, how does Natoma, you 259 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,640 know, the customers you've got, how do they measure success when 260 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,880 it comes to getting that value out of a deployment of Natoma? 261 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,000 Like what are some of the, you know, key performance indicators 262 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,320 or key metrics that are like, Oh yeah, this is worth the 263 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:04,440 investment that we've made in it. 264 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,440 Do you have some things you want to share with the audience on? 265 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,480 That no, yeah, definitely they're, they're two folds, 266 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,080 right. I mean, I keep going back to 267 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,240 that ease of use cases. If you look at what our mission, 268 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:20,160 our mission even on our website, it's how do we accelerate AI 269 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,440 adoption without compromising security. 270 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:25,880 So it's that acceleration piece, right? 271 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:30,200 That ease of use and that acceleration is what we double 272 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,760 click on every single time we talk to a customer and every 273 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:38,840 single time we go and do a pilot and go and convert a customer. 274 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:44,520 It's that is the value they get. It's like, hey, OK, how easy was 275 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,840 it and how did we really help you increase the productivity, 276 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:50,200 right? If you think about like the 277 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:55,360 journey that enterprises are today in terms of like adopting 278 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:01,320 agentic AIRAI agents is everything is around the 279 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,160 productivity and improving productivity. 280 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:10,040 So a simple use case would be leveraging these AI coding 281 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:16,400 assistance, right? You did, you can leverage those 282 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,520 AI coding assistants as a developer. 283 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,040 It does improve productivity, everybody agrees to it, but it 284 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,600 can really enhance it if you're connecting this to enterprise 285 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,560 tools and data, right? So if you have like, let's say a 286 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,360 GitHub Copilot or if you're looking at a cursor and how are 287 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:38,720 you connecting back to your GitHub and to your JIRA and your 288 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:45,600 linear tickets and Atlassian world, How easy do we make it 289 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,960 for admins to give the right level of controls to make sure 290 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,000 that how easily does these tools are getting connected? 291 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:57,200 But then from the other side, also, how easy it is for end 292 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:02,040 users to make sure they're like, you know, developers tools are 293 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,319 connected to these enterprise things. 294 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,960 So if you tie those two back together, so that becomes like, 295 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,520 you know, what is the value it's really delivering how quickly 296 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,480 they were able to accelerate and how much did the productivity 297 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,079 input, right? So that that exploration piece 298 00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:22,440 of hard and also depends. I mean, that's one specific use 299 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:23,960 case. If you think about like AI 300 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,400 agents, right? What kind of what is the end 301 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,080 user enterprises goal? What are the use cases they want 302 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,680 to solve? So it could be anything from 303 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,000 like, you know, IT operations or security operations and like 304 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,720 trying to simplify some of those things. 305 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,320 So what is the number of tickets that they have reduced and how 306 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,760 much like you know, security operations, how much did it 307 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:52,040 really help you, how quickly you were able to go solve a new 308 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,120 alert and get into the bottom of the new alert. 309 00:17:55,320 --> 00:18:00,040 So depending on basically we always, always, always die back 310 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:05,400 the success of our platform back to what the customer wants to do 311 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,000 it wants to do with it. And that means understanding 312 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,920 customers use cases and understanding what are their 313 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,160 goals. If their goals is that IT 314 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,920 operations and reducing the number of IT tickets, did we 315 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,680 help them deliver that? And if we measure the the 316 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,120 success there boom, we are successful. 317 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,720 If it is employee productivity, did we really quantifiably 318 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,320 improve that productivity? Boom, we are successful. 319 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,760 So you mentioned MCP and sort of tying things together. 320 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,800 I, I think this is still a new terminology for a lot of people 321 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,200 out there with MCP and model context protocol and then A to a 322 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,600 or agent to agent and the West. I guess the way I can't describe 323 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,080 it is this is sort of like the connective tissue or the glue of 324 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,760 how different AIS supposed to talk to each other and resources 325 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,120 again to you. But you're probably more of an 326 00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:57,520 expert than I am on that. So I'd love to hear like your 327 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,400 definition of what MCP and A to A is and then how does that 328 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,120 relate to the kind of stuff that you work on? 329 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,200 Well, I'm not an expert by any means, you know, I'm like 330 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,640 definitely not an expert, but I'll take a I'll I'll try my 331 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,680 best. If I were to take you, you want 332 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,960 to understand why we need MCP and what is MCP like? 333 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,040 I always like to start with the why, right? 334 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:26,320 Like like as Mr. Simon Sinek always says, start with the why. 335 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:32,280 I truly believe in that. Why do we need MCP? 336 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,080 So we have to take like a step back. 337 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,920 Let's go back like couple of years, right? 338 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,840 I mean, or maybe even few years back. 339 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,760 This whole thing basically started with Google coming out 340 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:46,120 with, you know, Google Brain team coming out with the the 341 00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:49,680 Transformer models and chat GPD come openly and comes out with 342 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:54,000 Chat GPD in 2022. Was it 22 in December or 343 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,040 whenever? And that completely changed the 344 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,080 game, right? And but it changed the game from 345 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,760 a consumer use case. It was like AQ and a it was 346 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:04,680 like, Oh my God, look, it can do this. 347 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,040 Oh, Oh my God, I can go actually search and get better search 348 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:13,160 results and it's you know what, it was a game changer, but it 349 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,960 was very consumer driven. Even if you look at like the 350 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,000 worldwide. Conference from Apple recently, 351 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,440 right, They were talking about Apple intelligence and what is 352 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,880 Apple intelligence? It's talking about like hey, 353 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,720 tell me when is my what's the status of my mom's flight That 354 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,600 was the example they use and what were they doing behind the 355 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:37,800 scenes Apple intelligence was going and talking to your e-mail 356 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,320 figuring out what was the schedule your mom was supposed 357 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:47,080 to come in goes online figure out like what your what's the 358 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,960 status of the flight and it's kind of giving responses back. 359 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:56,920 So point being all of these were great for end user consumer use 360 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:05,320 cases where MCP comes in or where AIO Jennya was lacking was 361 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:09,640 around around enterprise use cases. 362 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:14,920 And what do I mean by that? You get real actual benefit. 363 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,320 Like, you know, I mentioned like these use cases, number of 364 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,960 tickets and like, you know, some of these automated stuff you 365 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:25,760 could really reduce. You can really do that when you 366 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:30,280 connect Gen. AI we enterprise rules and datas 367 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:34,200 and applications. This is where the brains of the 368 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,440 enterprises. This is where everything is 369 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,720 posted. So if you're really connecting 370 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:44,960 your, if you really want to connect your AI agents, your 371 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,920 LLMS, your models to enterprise tools and data, that is the 372 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,640 biggest challenge. That is when you really unlock 373 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,720 the power of a Gen. AI. 374 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,400 That is also the biggest. And that's where MCP comes. 375 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,840 That's where it kind of changes the game. 376 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,240 So let's talk about it. How was it done before MCP 377 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,440 connect your LLM models to your enterprise tools and data. 378 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,880 You were leveraging API calls, right? 379 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:19,840 You were just doing like bespoke API integrations and connecting 380 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,240 to that. So if you have want to build 381 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:28,000 like 10 agents, right, or 10 clients and you have 10 data 382 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,120 sources or 10 applications on this side, every single time you 383 00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:35,360 you may build A use case with one agent and you're connecting 384 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:38,240 to this ten data sources and boom, this is powerful. 385 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,920 It's like a very bespoke manual integration. 386 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,440 You try to go build another one, you have to redo all of those 10 387 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,880 again. So it was that M cross N 388 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,160 problem. You have 10 on this side, 10 on 389 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,160 this side. So you're looking at 100 390 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,840 different integrations and API proliferation and won't even get 391 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,720 me started. The challenge is there right 392 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,200 where MCP comes in. It's an RPC protocol. 393 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:09,200 So it is still a client server protocol, but what it does is 394 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:16,000 actually is a wrapper on APIs and it actually leverages that 395 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,240 line to server integration. So for all your like the ten 396 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:26,080 data sources or applications or services that you had, you can 397 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,640 create servers for that, MCP servers for that. 398 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,600 And now you can have all these agents just talking to these 399 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,920 servers. So if you have this one use 400 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,880 case, one agent that you build for these, once you start, you 401 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,800 do a build another agent, you don't need to restart and 402 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,360 recreate all of those things. So you go from the 10 cross 10 403 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,040 to 10 + 10. So it's a model need a way to 404 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,160 provide context to all of your LLMS in a way. 405 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,560 So these LLMS, they become powerful when you provide your 406 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:01,760 data context to them, right? So that's that's the magic of 407 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,840 MCP. The other big, Big Magic, in my 408 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:10,840 opinion is what they call as dynamic self discovery. 409 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,840 I think this is like a very underlying unknown power. 410 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,520 If you say, what do I mean by that? 411 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,280 It's like when these agents, they start, they boot up without 412 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,080 changing any code. You can just tell them that, 413 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,080 hey, this there is this MCP server. 414 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,960 So it boots up and it goes and say, OK, I see there's some MCP 415 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,040 server. Let me go and figure out what 416 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:37,360 that server can give. And overnight without doing any 417 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:41,440 changes, you can add actions, you can connect different data 418 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,720 sources or data tools, applications, but you can also 419 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,800 provide different actions to it, right? 420 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,680 So it can actually add boot up time, do that dynamic self 421 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,360 discovery and automatically become more powerful. 422 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,600 And that's why I've really believe this MCP is like a 423 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,400 massive game changer in terms of like how you can provide that 424 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,920 context to your LLMS and things like that. 425 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,080 And that's where, where the world is going. 426 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,000 If you think about it from A to a perspective, that's when the 427 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,800 agents to agents start interacting with that, right? 428 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,560 MCP was started, developed like it's such a young protocol to 429 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,120 begin with. It was started and it was 430 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,000 announced in November 25 by Entropic. 431 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:30,760 And here we are six months in. Like it has been like adopted by 432 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,880 the community. There's been so much it's an 433 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,640 open source protocol, so much community development has 434 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:41,720 happened on to it and build on top. 435 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,560 Google came out with A to a protocol and what's the theory 436 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,440 there? Awesome. 437 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,960 MCP is great when you want to collect or connect your LLMS and 438 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,520 your agents to your enterprise data sources. 439 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,840 But the world is going where these, as I was saying, these 440 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,800 agents will kind of interact and talk with each other and they'll 441 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,520 like plan, strategize, execute on its own. 442 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,480 So you really want domain specific smaller agents, right? 443 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,600 So think about like agents which are small agent that's connected 444 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,440 to your sales force and doing some sales stuff. 445 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,960 And then you have a different agent which is going and doing 446 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,040 its marketing stuff. And when these agents need to 447 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,120 talk to each other, they end up leveraging the agent to agent 448 00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:33,680 protocol in a way. But I'm sure as you're thinking 449 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,320 through all of this and like agent identity and like human 450 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:42,000 identity, like it opens up a massive identity access 451 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,360 authorization can of bombs. But it's not only just that with 452 00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:51,040 newer protocols, it opens up newer security challenges, newer 453 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,480 vulnerabilities as well. I mean, the explosion of this 454 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,040 has been crazy and I think we've used the word explosion like 5 455 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,400 times so far. It's conversation, but it's 456 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,160 probably the most accurate way to describe it because it's 457 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,760 accelerated so quickly. And to see and yeah, and to see 458 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,280 the technical, you know, groups get behind this. 459 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,440 I mean, I've seen standard developments in the past that 460 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,840 takes years, but this is moving very quickly to all of a sudden 461 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,880 say, OK, well there's a bunch of big names supporting MCPN and A 462 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,520 to A and all that good stuff. I, I'm just curious, like how do 463 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,400 you navigate, you know, developing product at the same 464 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,760 time these things are still being developed and you know, 465 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,080 maybe they're not even on solid ground yet, or maybe I'm wrong. 466 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:31,720 I'm, I'm not as closer to it probably as you are. 467 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,480 But, you know, is there a common set of rules that have been 468 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,040 established that you can effectively start building 469 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,800 capabilities and services on top of those things while they're 470 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,160 still building sort of the rest of the boat? 471 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,880 Yes and no. I mean, it has it does like, you 472 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,480 know, we as technologies when we start building new stuff, we 473 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,040 always just want to move 1000 mph, right. 474 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,800 So is the protocol like solid and it's like being like taught 475 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,040 through and there are no holes to it? 476 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,880 Absolutely not. Having said that, is the 477 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,200 protocol well adopted and here to stay 100%. 478 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,440 Will it keep evolving? Will will it keep changing 100%? 479 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:19,960 But that's the, I mean, that's that's the magic of like a start 480 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,560 up, right? Like you are really at the 481 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:26,200 bleeding edge and you are really thinking through like where this 482 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,360 can go, right? Nobody knows. 483 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:31,480 Everybody is trying to figure the puzzle out. 484 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,720 And here we are also trying to figure the puzzle out. 485 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:40,480 So does it make you nervous? It does, but it also makes you 486 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:45,400 think harder and it actually makes you like, I feel that 487 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,720 passion and that excitement. It's like we need to go figure 488 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,720 this out. Like nobody has figured it out, 489 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,120 like, you know, So we'll be probably the first one to figure 490 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,200 it out in a way. Well, if you wait for a 491 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:57,720 perfection, it'll never happen, right? 492 00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,920 Like we waited for Olaf to be done? 493 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,240 Like the problem would have been insurmountable, yes. 494 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,960 Absolutely, absolutely you. So true. 495 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,400 And even for MCP though, there are certain RFCS for award that 496 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,760 needs to be adopted and could potentially change, you know? 497 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,560 Let's talk a little bit about that facilitating of the 498 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,000 connections between LMS and agents. 499 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,320 I feel like this is an area that is sort of now coming to light 500 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,480 because everyone like you know, says like Chachi BT comes out 501 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,120 and you got Gemini and Claude and you know you name it, it's 502 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,920 out there. What is the powerful part is, is 503 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,200 connecting to that data. Now me as an enterprise user or 504 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,440 owner of enterprise data, I got to make sure that I am really 505 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,720 secure and really sure that whatever is access, my data is 506 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,360 correct and they are authorized to access that particular data. 507 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,280 I think this is where those connections between a, you know, 508 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,480 let's say a generative LLM versus a resource or a company 509 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,080 specific data repository, you know, you may you, you've got to 510 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,280 make sure that connection is secure. 511 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,120 And then you've also got to make sure the connection to the 512 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,640 agents that might be interacting with either of those things is 513 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,480 secure as well. Can you talk a little bit about 514 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,520 how Natoma approaches that, that connectivity and that 515 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,920 facilitation? No, absolutely. 516 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,680 Yeah. So that's where that's where we 517 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,200 really play, right. That's really ensuring that as 518 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,920 these LLMS, these agents are kind of interacting those 519 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,480 enterprise data, as you said for enterprises, that is your IP and 520 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:34,440 that is what like is, is your secret sauce in a way, right. 521 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:41,160 And as you're trying to connect these models, NLMS, these AI 522 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,760 agents for your use cases to the data, we kind of play in that 523 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,600 middleware. And what we provide that Natoma 524 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,520 agent access provides is basically 3 layers of 525 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,800 authentication and authorization control. 526 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,040 So Step 1 is basically, of course, we leverage more author 527 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,720 on the way. But Step 1 is like, but you 528 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,760 will, is this agent even allowed to talk to a certain data? 529 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,000 So let's take GitHub as an example, right? 530 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,320 You have like agent 1 is agent one allowed to talk to GitHub. 531 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:20,440 So you can configure that Tunatoma that a only agent one 532 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,040 in your enterprise is allowed to talk to GitHub. 533 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,760 But it's not only that we don't stop that. 534 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,360 Then we provide the next layer of it, like OK, Agent 1 can talk 535 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:35,520 to GitHub, but agent 1 can only do such and such actions. 536 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:40,040 So you can control what rules have been passed back as NLMS, 537 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:45,200 recorded tools, what agent this agents LMS, what actions can you 538 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,080 take in your downstream applications. 539 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,800 And the third pieces is what you were talking about. 540 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:57,760 When users interact with these agents or when users are like 541 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,680 when these agents are acting behalf of users, what can they 542 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,480 do, right? So like, let's say we take 543 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,800 continuing on that GitHub example, let's say only agent 1 544 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,120 is allowed to talk to GitHub. You say, hey, you can actually 545 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:14,080 do list commit with this agent, but you can't do batch commits, 546 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,600 for example. And then when Jeff is 547 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:22,120 interacting with this particular agent, you can actually go and 548 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,840 do Jeff can do this summits, but it should be able to do this 549 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:31,280 summits of only the repos Jeff has access to versus when 550 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,880 separation is going and doing list summit, it should do only 551 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,480 for the, you know, repos that paration is access to. 552 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,520 So really tying back that authorization, fine grain 553 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,160 authorization of the end users indoor and that is where we 554 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,960 really play. It's at 3 levels of access and 555 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,920 fine grain authorization because you are sitting into a yeah. 556 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,040 No, please go ahead. No, I was just going to say 557 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,320 that, you know, you are getting into a world where eventually 558 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:08,640 these agents are going to act on behalf of Jeff and they are 559 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,760 going to become smarter. They are going to start 560 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,600 executing the, you know, when to like we're moving away from 561 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,880 like, you know, the enterprises work in that workflow 562 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,800 environment, right? Like there is like, hey, new 563 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,560 employee comes in so that triggers like, OK, somebody 564 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,640 needs to create a user and work day and then that's going to 565 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,840 push down into Octa and new laptop needs to be shipped out 566 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,200 and new to provide like medical insurance and water. 567 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,440 So there's some chain of events. We are going getting into a 568 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,720 point where enterprises are going away from that workflow 569 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,800 strategy into like doing some works and that will become 570 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,400 conversation, right? Like LLMS are doing this. 571 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,760 You don't need to have like, oh, somebody's going to join it. 572 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,120 It can completely change that workflow model in my opinion, 573 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,320 and that's when having that right level of controls is very 574 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,560 important. That opens up a question of, OK, 575 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,120 so if I have a bunch of agents that are acting on my behalf, 576 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,120 how to, how to, how to me as the user, you know, direct those 577 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,360 agents on to what they can and can't do. 578 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,960 And, you know, how ephemeral does that access even live? 579 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,080 Because maybe these agents are, you know, they only live for 580 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,239 maybe a few milliseconds to perform a specific task and they 581 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,400 are shut down or decommission or whatever you want to call it. 582 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,159 I mean, that's, that's part of the challenge. 583 00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:27,920 You're right. It's not only the, the scale, 584 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,480 right, the number of them, but it's the speed with which these 585 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,280 things can be created, destroyed, recycled, whatever 586 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:34,560 you want to call it. Is that right? 587 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,360 Yep, absolutely true, absolutely true. 588 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,040 And this is where we really come in and play as well. 589 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:45,120 It's like if you need to have those identities associated with 590 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,040 those agents, so you really need to keep a list of that. 591 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:53,040 But also like when, when these these become ephemeral, we 592 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:59,480 really need to make sure that like, you know, we provide you 593 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,680 controls, we provide enterprises controls that if the agent is 594 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,080 going to act on behalf of Jeff, it can only take certain 595 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,040 actions. And if it really wants to take 596 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,640 certain other actions, you need step up off like basically 597 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:16,800 everything that we've learned in our identity practice over the 598 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,240 years. How do we deploy that in a way, 599 00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:21,320 right? So bringing that wearing that 600 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,760 Octa hat back on or like wearing those things. 601 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:29,160 Hey, if the agent needs to do a certain action, we need human in 602 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:33,120 the loop still, Jeff needs to come in and like, you know, 603 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,280 provide that biometric so you can control what actions the 604 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:41,520 agent can take on behalf of as an impersonation versus when 605 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:46,360 it's it can't take on acting on behalf of it and or human in the 606 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,720 loop is there. I'm glad to hear that. 607 00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:50,680 Like we're getting smarter on how we approach some of these 608 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,720 things. It's not like you can give a, 609 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,880 you know, a, a token to, you know, an agent AI and had to 610 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,040 pull out this little key ring and say, OK, give me the 6 611 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,000 digits in there. You know, I'm talking physically 612 00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:03,040 and I'm sure digitally that's probably the way to do it. 613 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,280 But I, I'm glad to hear they're getting smarter. 614 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,400 And so now I'm like, OK, so this sounds pretty cool. 615 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,560 How do I actually set this up? Like what's it like to deploy a 616 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,800 product like this into my environment? 617 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,120 Is it? Does it sit there and I I give 618 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,120 it a bunch of access and kind of reads the environment and gets a 619 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,200 discovery And then how do I manage policies and and things 620 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,200 like that? It's super easy. 621 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,640 Customers have been able to do this in less than two hours with 622 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,600 us. It definitely discovery of 623 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,440 course takes a little longer like you go to platform goes and 624 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,640 actually does all the discovery of like shadow MCP servers or 625 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,400 like shadow AI and really bring that in. 626 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,760 But then also that's where we kind of started, right? 627 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,840 Like the first part of our company's history was really 628 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,520 focused on doing that shadow AI discovery in a way. 629 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,760 But where we've been really better can really make it easy 630 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,720 is like, again, remember everything I was staying at the 631 00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:06,280 beginning, ease of use and one click deployments and things 632 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,120 like that. Admins can come in there. 633 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,560 They've been we've had customers able to do this in less than two 634 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:18,280 hours, control this out in in their organizations. 635 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,880 Of course, controlled environments, not like like, you 636 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,840 know, how can gold it's done in wild, Wild West. 637 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:30,280 There's obviously this world is changing so fast and but we've 638 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,200 made it absolutely easy and giving you the right set of 639 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,240 controls to rule it out. Literally, we've had customers 640 00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:40,480 successfully launch it in less than two hours and to a point 641 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,600 where in certain cases we've they've just given them a here 642 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,840 it is. You can just go create this 643 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,800 tenant and go play with. I literally last week, I wish I 644 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,160 could have shared some of those slacks that I got. 645 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,240 The person was able to use it connected and he said, oh, 646 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,600 everything was quite intuitive. This is awesome. 647 00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:03,120 And the reason we actually enforced him to do that because 648 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,920 of that, the iPhone analogy I was trying to make, you do not 649 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:09,680 need a manual for it. We don't. 650 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,760 We want to build a product that nobody needs a man at the end, 651 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,280 at the end of it. We had in the age of here and we 652 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,400 are trying to build a product we solve for here. 653 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,760 If we need a manual for that product, we've failed somewhere 654 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,840 miserably, you know. That's a pretty quick, you know, 655 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,280 time to value to deploy, be able to deploy so quickly. 656 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,840 Once I've got it deployed, I'm curious, like what are some of 657 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,720 the things that I can do maybe from like a policy standpoint as 658 00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:37,440 administrator, do I define and say, you know, here's a list of 659 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,400 my resources or am IA different AIAI agents? 660 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,560 Or like what does this look like for me as a, let's just call it 661 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,400 a security administrator? I don't even know what the great 662 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,120 role would be, but to say, OK, I've got Natoma installed, now 663 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,040 what? You get it, you get it up and 664 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,280 running. You can control like you can 665 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,520 create these MCP servers, whatever you want to connect 666 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,040 your, let's say your, let's pick cursor as an example. 667 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,600 You want to connect cursor to whatever tools you can do that 668 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:11,200 one click deployment of your MCP servers and roll it out to your 669 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,080 end users. And like, you know, just the end 670 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:18,120 users see these servers that are available to them that they can 671 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:23,080 go and connect back to connect their courses of the world back 672 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:28,520 to those tools like linear or Atlassian or GitHub or whichever 673 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:33,080 1 you want. Or on the flip and whatever IT 674 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,760 operation tickets you're trying to connect, like, hey, you want, 675 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:41,040 you want your chat GPD or like enterprises have these wrappers 676 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,120 around chat GPD. You want to go connect to Octa 677 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,040 and sale point and like, you know, cyber Ark and service. 678 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,800 Now we solve some of those common use cases and like, you 679 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,600 know, like a lot of these use cases that can automatically be 680 00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:00,040 reduced having like an AI coding assistant. 681 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,600 So you can create these spin off these MCP servers. 682 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:08,520 They are kind of managed by like the IT admins and they can go 683 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,120 connect back to your GPTS and users can connect to their 684 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,400 coding assistant tools. And boom, now all the data is 685 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,200 kind of going through it. But not only that, we can, as we 686 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,360 go and connect to it, we can discover any shadow MCP servers 687 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,880 or shadow AI that's out there. Any of those that have some 688 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,480 people might have already ruled out. 689 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,760 So from security profession, they start getting some of these 690 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,040 controls there. And the other benefit, you know, 691 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,400 as I was kind of mentioning, there are a lot more other 692 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,680 Security benefits, right? Like if you think about it like 693 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,840 what are the new age vulnerabilities that are coming 694 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:54,720 into like shadow MCP? So I'm sorry, malicious MCP 695 00:40:54,720 --> 00:41:00,120 servers, tool poisoning, tool hijacking, rug pull attacks. 696 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:04,600 So having like a platform that has actually verified MCP 697 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,200 stores, we've actually built like MCP scanner, security 698 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,160 scanner and contributed back to the community. 699 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,200 So we scan, make sure that all of those vulnerability exists, 700 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:20,040 making sure that all of these are doing vulnerability 701 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,040 management, version management, all of that you get 702 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,840 out-of-the-box straight away. Yeah. 703 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,000 It sounds very interesting. I was going to ask you about the 704 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,880 sort of what happens if I have my own MCP servers, but you pull 705 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,200 those in. I think this is probably 706 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,160 something that might be getting overlooked is what happens if a 707 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,520 rogue MCP ends up getting out there. 708 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,560 You're able to detect that and then, you know, surface that for 709 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,920 somebody to do something about it, either block it or. 710 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,560 Whatever even before, yeah, we even before we on board like an 711 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,080 host and MCP. So we will make sure that we 712 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,480 have a scanner and check and make sure they kind of fit in 713 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,360 that there are no vulnerabilities. 714 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,360 We find those vulnerabilities, we make sure that hey, these are 715 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:03,600 fixed again, depends on like it's community developed who's 716 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,400 contributed to it. So we look at those MCP like 717 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,480 those vulnerabilities. Lot of times we've actually, 718 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,080 because it's such an early in the game, we've actually taken 719 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,840 back those and we said, hey, we need to fix all of these things. 720 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,520 Let's go ahead and fix it. And then we have them the right 721 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:24,760 hosted 1 and we have like version controls on top of that 722 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,200 as well. Enterprises have actually also 723 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,040 build their own MCP servers for their own custom applications. 724 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:33,840 We've been able to bring those as well. 725 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:39,520 We are also building MCP servers for different agents as well. 726 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,680 So I have to ask, I'm kind of curious and kind of my last 727 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:47,480 question for you here is this idea of Shadow AI and Shadow 728 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,320 MCP. I'm curious if you're customers 729 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,120 and I don't want you to name and shame or anything like that. 730 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,640 But this is more of a, are they discovering like shadow MCP 731 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:57,720 servers out there where developers have something? 732 00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:01,600 Because I'm, I'm not finding a lot of regulation and governance 733 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,080 yet within organizations on how to even tackle the governance 734 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,800 of, you know, how do we set up AI within our own organization? 735 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,160 You know, those sort of things. I'm so glad you cannot ask this 736 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,880 question. That was a super smart and they 737 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,640 will try out these new protocols and they'll download random MCP 738 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,640 servers without thinking about security, without thinking about 739 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,760 access. So when we go connect week, we 740 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,120 go and find so many of these shadow MCP servers. 741 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,800 So you're climbing this giant mountain of AI. 742 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,280 And so that's my perfect segue into sort of ending the 743 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,160 conversation here. And I'll let her know we were 744 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,280 talking as we're getting into each other, you know, before we 745 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,600 hit record here. And you mentioned that you like 746 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,560 the outdoors and hiking and sort of things like that. 747 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:48,240 And I'm curious, like what is your most memorable hike or 748 00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:50,520 climb or whatever way you want to describe it? 749 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,840 My most memorable definitely would be the Mount Whitney hike. 750 00:43:55,640 --> 00:44:01,480 That's that's the the highest peak in Lower 48 country 751 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,960 continuous United State. It is. 752 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,040 It took us, believe it or not, like we were, we were slow. 753 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,720 We were hiking with the group, We made sure we did it with the 754 00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:14,440 group. The entire group made it up, 755 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,360 came back down. It took us more than 24 hours. 756 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,280 We were hiking for 26 hours non-stop. 757 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:28,720 Generally people take like 18 to 20 hours is the norm, but we 758 00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:31,080 were a bit slow. But it was one of those hikes 759 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:39,760 that really challenges you and very, very vivid memories of the 760 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:44,200 entire fight. But though the funny story to a 761 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:49,600 point where like it, it became so painful that coming down not 762 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:54,400 be somebody else, they were so tired, they were actually hiking 763 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,160 backwards. So if you've been hiking down 764 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,720 for too long, it does get hard on your knees. 765 00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:04,920 Of course, I think backwards it is actually a little bit easier. 766 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,720 So of course, not on the rocky parts and not on the switchbacks 767 00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:12,280 that are like some 120 switchbacks on the top near the 768 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,360 top. But eventually when we were 769 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,360 hiking down the car, we just started hiking backwards. 770 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,000 OK, so this is new to me. I've never heard of hiking 771 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,440 backwards. So you're you're you're 772 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,840 essentially walking backwards down the mountain. 773 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:26,760 Is that it might describe that. I mean, it seems almost like a 774 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,440 comic book. It doesn't sound funny, but you 775 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,880 actually see it is quite funny. We still give, but it's better 776 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,800 to give more. Harder, I guess it's where 777 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,480 you're more comfortable or something like that. 778 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,240 I guess it's just better for your knees because you are 779 00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:43,560 constantly hiking down. It just keeps hurting. 780 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:50,280 Knee keeps hurting and 26 hours, it was a long, long day for 781 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,000 sure. And like 26 hours. 782 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:57,360 All of those 26 hours we would be at least hiking for maybe 23. 783 00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:02,680 We spent like good 3045 minutes on the top at the summit. 784 00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:04,960 It was, but it was truly worth it. 785 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,440 We did. We did light up a cigar. 786 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:11,960 We did take some alcohol. Did not did not have the energy 787 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,640 to drink it, but we did definitely light up the cigar. 788 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,840 So you must have some really good pictures kind of being, Oh 789 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:19,760 my God. There, of course. 790 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,000 Of course. How about animals? 791 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,240 Did you come across any bears, Mountain lions? 792 00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:29,400 Yeti. Fortunately, no, fortunately, 793 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,680 no, I don't. Nothing actually that's it's 794 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,240 very close to. I don't know if you know, but 795 00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:38,680 Mount Whitney is close to it's like Central California. 796 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,240 So it's. Like east of, it's like east of 797 00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:44,080 San Francisco, kind of like in between San Francisco and Las 798 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,840 Vegas and like that area. Exactly, exactly. 799 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:51,760 It's southeast of San Francisco and it's near Death Valley. 800 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:53,320 Basically it's very close to Death Valley. 801 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:57,560 So it does get kind of doesn't get hot or anything, but it's, 802 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:03,360 it's a very barren land as such. So you don't really get any of 803 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,200 those, or at least fortunately we did not see any of those. 804 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,320 That sounds pretty fascinating. If you're hiking Half Dome, you 805 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,840 might end up with bears and stuff, which also I've done. 806 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,840 Half Dome was also good. But yeah. 807 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,000 Well, see, I don't need to hike anywhere because I have bears in 808 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:18,960 my yard here in in Ashland, North Carolina. 809 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,480 So, you know, I have I have black bears. 810 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,640 So they're not typically, you know, looking for trouble mostly 811 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:28,280 for food and things like that. OK, So I think I guess, you 812 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:32,000 know, that's it for today as we exit the conversation here. 813 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,520 What is something that you want the audience out there to know 814 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,160 about Natoma and the way you guys are thinking about 815 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,880 approaching this agentic AI explosion again, there's the 816 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,800 word again that we've been seeing here. 817 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,160 We are definitely at an explosion inflection point. 818 00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:54,960 No, I mean, I, you know, generally there has been this 819 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,600 apprehension about like, oh, what will AI do and how it's 820 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:03,800 going to kill jobs and like, it's going to like have massive 821 00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,800 problems. Don't, I would say do not be 822 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:09,440 afraid of it. Like this. 823 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:14,840 We went through as a like as a society, We did the same thing 824 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:19,720 back in 70s, eighties when like, you know, computers were kind of 825 00:48:19,720 --> 00:48:21,400 coming up. There was this fear that Oh my 826 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,280 God, what's going to change? And then in 90s when Internet 827 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,520 was coming up and it's like, Oh my God, it's going to take away 828 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,240 all these jobs and things like that. 829 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:33,360 We are at a similar inflection point, so adopted. 830 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:38,360 But hey, as you are adopting and accelerating, Natoma can truly 831 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:42,280 help you accelerate without actually compromising security. 832 00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,240 Well, I love that message because I think this is 833 00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:47,000 something we can't stick our heads on the sands. 834 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,840 We have to understand it. It is a tool and we'll figure 835 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,120 out how to use it. Like you said, we've been 836 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,880 through this cycle before with computers, electricity, indoor 837 00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:56,640 plumbing, right? These things go on the Internet, 838 00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:57,440 right? All these things come. 839 00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,240 Along and. We just have to figure out how 840 00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:02,000 to adapt to it. So Paresh, I really appreciate 841 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,040 you taking the time with us today and definitely want to 842 00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,280 encourage people to go out to your website, Natoma dot 843 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,080 IDNATOMA. We'll have links in our show 844 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,480 notes for be able to find that website as well as connect with 845 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,040 you Paresh on LinkedIn so people can share hiking stories or you 846 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:17,880 know, what the heck are you talking about with MCP servers 847 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,160 help, you know, things like that. 848 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,520 So again, really appreciate Paresh and for everyone 849 00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,520 watching, listening, you can find us on the web 850 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,040 idacpodcast.com. Don't forget that like and 851 00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,400 subscribe button and we'll go ahead and leave it there. 852 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:31,840 Thanks everyone for watching and or listening and we'll talk with 853 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:36,360 you all in the next one. You've been listening to 854 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:40,280 Identity at the Center. We hope you've enjoyed the show. 855 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,560 Make sure to like, rate and review, and we'll be back soon. 856 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,080 But in the meantime, hit the website at 857 00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:53,440 identity@thecenter.com. See you next time on Identity at 858 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:54,360 the Center.