1 00:00:09,700 --> 00:00:13,100 You're listening to the identity of the center podcast, this is 2 00:00:13,100 --> 00:00:15,600 the show that talks about identity and access management 3 00:00:15,700 --> 00:00:18,600 and making sure you know who has access to what let's get 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:26,000 started. Welcome to the idea at the 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,000 center podcast I'm Jeff and that's Jim. 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff, how are you? 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,200 No, that's a bad yourself, good. It's going to be a busy day. 8 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:37,000 We've got a lot on the sports calendar in terms of TV watching 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,500 but I've also got a lot of, you know, household chores to do. 10 00:00:40,500 --> 00:00:44,900 Because tomorrow I'm going to start my journey out to San 11 00:00:44,900 --> 00:00:46,800 Francisco for the octane conference. 12 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,400 Yeah, so it's we recording this on Saturday November 5th. 13 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,000 So I've just gotten back from a week-long trip to Scenic 14 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:54,700 Elkhart. Indiana. 15 00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:56,600 Now, we'll talk about that. Maybe you real quickly, and 16 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,100 then, yeah, we're gonna be an octane next week, so you're 17 00:00:59,100 --> 00:01:01,100 traveling out, tomorrow's Sunday. 18 00:01:01,500 --> 00:01:04,400 I'm flying out Monday for you and is kind of like an all-day 19 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:06,700 thing. Although we do get back like 20 00:01:06,700 --> 00:01:08,600 three hours because of the time changes. 21 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,800 Well, we actually get another, our boys raised. 22 00:01:11,900 --> 00:01:14,700 Yeah. Because this is all back. 23 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,500 I totally forgot about that. Yeah, so we're getting you're 24 00:01:17,500 --> 00:01:19,900 going to get an hour hours all over the place. 25 00:01:19,900 --> 00:01:23,700 So we'll be tired at like 6:00 in the shepherd knows how 26 00:01:23,700 --> 00:01:26,000 annoyed people who. Live in Phoenix. 27 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,800 Get and I think there's a an area of Indiana that doesn't 28 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:35,800 recognize daylight savings time but and they're right. 29 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:40,700 I mean I think it's it's kind of from a bygone error but I guess 30 00:01:40,700 --> 00:01:43,500 is the logistics of getting rid of it. 31 00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:46,800 That's probably more difficult than just maintaining it. 32 00:01:47,100 --> 00:01:50,400 Yeah, keep hearing at least in the u.s. they're going to It's 33 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,200 almost like yeah, we're thinking about getting rid of it next 34 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,300 year or so like that but it is from a relic from a bygone era. 35 00:01:56,300 --> 00:02:00,100 It was originally marketed as something that the farmers 36 00:02:00,100 --> 00:02:01,900 wanted and that's not the truth at all. 37 00:02:01,900 --> 00:02:04,600 It was something else. It was just kind of got blamed 38 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,400 on farming for some reason, but that's not the reason I didn't. 39 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:10,900 I didn't know that. But yeah, I've always loved like 40 00:02:10,900 --> 00:02:13,700 they're starting Farmers. Make it third because their kids 41 00:02:13,700 --> 00:02:17,200 get up at 5:00 in the morning and milk the cows. 42 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,800 Yeah, it was not. Yeah, I it's funny. 43 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,100 I I went to recently, it was like, why are you know, why do 44 00:02:22,100 --> 00:02:23,600 we have? Why do we have this thing? 45 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,000 And it was not a farmer's at all. 46 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,800 It was some sort of PR thing, that sort of blamed it on the 47 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,000 farmers. So kind of funny Side Story if 48 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,700 we got a minute. Yeah, so I would, I grew up in 49 00:02:33,700 --> 00:02:37,700 Philadelphia in the inner city and when I went to college, it 50 00:02:37,700 --> 00:02:42,300 was Millersville University, which is in Lancaster County and 51 00:02:42,300 --> 00:02:46,800 a sitting in a freshman year, political science class. 52 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:51,000 I only remember what I was saying, but Some guy raised his 53 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,800 hand and looked at me as like, you City. 54 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,600 People don't care about the farmers at all and it was like, 55 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,800 whoa, maybe he's right. I thought that I didn't care 56 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,400 about the farmers, but maybe I was coming off that way and so 57 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,100 it was a learning experience. I think that, I mean, that goes, 58 00:03:09,300 --> 00:03:12,300 I'm sure I'm not breaking any big news for people here, but 59 00:03:12,300 --> 00:03:16,200 it's like about flexibility and being willing to learn and 60 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,400 challenge your perspectives throughout your life. 61 00:03:18,500 --> 00:03:20,700 I think, when you get to a point where you're not, Willing to do 62 00:03:20,700 --> 00:03:23,100 that. You're done learning. 63 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:25,400 Yeah, for sure. I think it's probably just that 64 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,700 awareness thing, right? If it's, if you're never brought 65 00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:29,700 into contact with stuff, how do you supposed to know about it? 66 00:03:29,700 --> 00:03:33,700 So I love travel and I think it's, you know, one of the 67 00:03:33,708 --> 00:03:35,700 things that I recommend, everybody's travel go see the 68 00:03:35,700 --> 00:03:39,400 world, you know, all the different, cultures, people's 69 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,200 Nations, all that stuff, you know, I'm an optimist. 70 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,600 I like to believe most people are, you know, good and just, 71 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,700 you know, trying to trying to get by with their own different 72 00:03:46,700 --> 00:03:49,000 lives. But yeah, go out and see the 73 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,000 world and And get out of here. A little corner is a big 74 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,400 eye-opener. I always kind of reference of 75 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,300 back. My first trip to India. 76 00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:00,100 I want to say was like 20 2008, maybe 2010, I don't remember 77 00:04:00,100 --> 00:04:02,400 someone now was was a big eye-opener for me was kind of 78 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,700 like my first international trip was like, oh, okay. 79 00:04:05,100 --> 00:04:07,700 You know, there is more to the world than just, you know, 80 00:04:07,700 --> 00:04:11,200 Chicago area and the United States right in cats like that. 81 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,400 And, you know, I had done some travel around there before, but 82 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,500 that was sort of like the first kind of like okay, there's 83 00:04:16,500 --> 00:04:19,200 there's there's some things out there that I want to check out. 84 00:04:19,300 --> 00:04:21,200 Yeah. Definitely true. 85 00:04:21,500 --> 00:04:22,700 Soba. Speaking of travel. 86 00:04:22,700 --> 00:04:26,300 So we'll be in San Francisco next week which has always been 87 00:04:26,300 --> 00:04:31,200 one of my favorite parts of the country, you know, between just 88 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,400 the bay area. But also like the wine region 89 00:04:36,100 --> 00:04:39,600 it's just to be it's like it's kind of like heaven on Earth in 90 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:44,600 terms of, you know all those Wineries and ranches and 91 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:49,100 everything you just, I love it. But also really just looking 92 00:04:49,100 --> 00:04:51,800 forward to the conversation. Prince, there's a slate of 93 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,700 speakers who are, you know, not even just in the identity access 94 00:04:56,700 --> 00:05:00,400 management fee. So Serena Williams Magic Johnson 95 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,800 are going to be speakers, and, of course, a lot of the 96 00:05:02,808 --> 00:05:07,300 executives from OCTA, as well as some of their partner companies. 97 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,700 I'm just a really looking forward to learning a lot being 98 00:05:10,700 --> 00:05:15,000 around people who are thinking about, I am in the future, not 99 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,200 just I am now, but I am in the future. 100 00:05:18,300 --> 00:05:20,100 Yes, it'll be. It'll be interesting and fun. 101 00:05:20,100 --> 00:05:23,300 I think I definitely give a shout-out to really multiple 102 00:05:23,300 --> 00:05:26,800 people talk to team but they've really been welcoming and really 103 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,200 kind of helping us get it. Set up for this including making 104 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,200 introductions with some folks that we don't want to put names 105 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,700 out there yet. But we're going to have multiple 106 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,400 podcast episodes I think right now the plan is probably have 107 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,900 something for like Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, maybe into the 108 00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:45,200 following week as well. So we'll see how it goes. 109 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,500 That's kind of like our our modus. 110 00:05:48,100 --> 00:05:51,800 I for when we hit a conference but definitely give a shout-out 111 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,000 to Steven Strong. He's been like a super advocate 112 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,700 for us and totally appreciate that. 113 00:05:56,700 --> 00:05:58,900 I think last time we talked about this, you know, he talked 114 00:05:58,900 --> 00:06:01,800 about his getting into his 15 minutes of fame, so I will give 115 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,800 you another few minutes towards that to towards that credit. 116 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,600 So yeah, thanks so much Steven and definitely others. 117 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,500 So as we get things kind of lined up this week I'm sure 118 00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:12,700 we'll have a whole bunch of people to thank and yeah, 119 00:06:12,700 --> 00:06:15,500 that'll be cool. So, yeah, and you mentioned some 120 00:06:15,500 --> 00:06:17,900 of the some of the folks that will be there like sorry too. 121 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,100 Williams and Magic Johnson, you know, that's kind of cool, 122 00:06:20,100 --> 00:06:21,300 right? I think you go to a conference 123 00:06:21,300 --> 00:06:25,000 and it's like, okay, it's great to hear, you know, form, like, 124 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,400 you know, so-and-so product person, whatever, or like, some 125 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,400 speaker in the industry. But it's always a treat when you 126 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,700 get to, you know, hear stories that are really outside of like 127 00:06:34,700 --> 00:06:35,400 the industry. Right? 128 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:41,200 So I'm curious to see what Venus and Magic are going to talk 129 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,200 about. Well it's not for you to Serena 130 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:50,500 I'm sorry honey but you know I think what Yeah, I think so just 131 00:06:50,500 --> 00:06:54,100 name dropping those two, they're not going to be on the pocket, 132 00:06:55,500 --> 00:06:56,700 be cool. But I don't know what we would 133 00:06:56,700 --> 00:06:59,200 talk about. Yeah, well I think we would 134 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,000 figure something out if they if they if they decide they want to 135 00:07:02,008 --> 00:07:04,900 be on the Pike house. Yeah, invitation is open. 136 00:07:04,900 --> 00:07:10,300 I just think that they probably get a nice speaker fee and the 137 00:07:10,300 --> 00:07:13,400 identity of the sender podcast has yet to reach the level of 138 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,800 which we pay speaker fees. Hey you never know. 139 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,400 I you know Serena magic, if you guys are listening you I can 140 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,900 Want to come on, the world-famous identity access 141 00:07:20,900 --> 00:07:23,400 management podcast. Hit us up on LinkedIn. 142 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:24,500 There we go. Yeah. 143 00:07:24,500 --> 00:07:28,300 There you, go offers open. What else we got going on? 144 00:07:28,300 --> 00:07:31,100 So we're actually you had a conversation with Jerry, Gable 145 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,200 friend of the show from Strada Identity or gas or 146 00:07:35,500 --> 00:07:36,900 orchestration. Easy for me to say. 147 00:07:37,300 --> 00:07:40,700 You guys talked about, I DQ L which is identity query 148 00:07:40,700 --> 00:07:45,400 language, and the hexa project which is this open source policy 149 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,200 orchestrator for multi-cloud which is Pretty cool. 150 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,500 We're going to play that interview sort of like to end 151 00:07:51,500 --> 00:07:53,700 the show because it's about 20-25 minutes. 152 00:07:53,700 --> 00:07:57,200 I think something like that. So that's kind of like coming up 153 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,100 but I think it certainly has a nice kind of like dovetail until 154 00:08:00,100 --> 00:08:01,700 like where things are going, especially we start talking 155 00:08:01,700 --> 00:08:05,500 about authentication and multi-cloud and things like 156 00:08:05,500 --> 00:08:06,700 that. And I think you did a round 157 00:08:06,700 --> 00:08:09,300 table recently where maybe something like that came up, 158 00:08:09,300 --> 00:08:10,500 right? Yeah. 159 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:15,800 You know, shows on this connects round table and it's really 160 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:17,700 cool. I didn't know what to expect but 161 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,800 The participants were, you know, the I am practitioners folks who 162 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:27,200 listen to this podcast, you know, same kind of you know 163 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,000 daily responsibilities. And one of the questions that 164 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:35,600 was asked at the end was if you had the magic wand, what I am 165 00:08:36,299 --> 00:08:41,100 thing would you create? And you know, one of the folks 166 00:08:41,100 --> 00:08:48,500 described I think the exact thing that that strata what the 167 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,800 identity orchestration looks to solve as so it could not making 168 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,000 a shred of commercial here but you know, it validated to me 169 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,200 that people out there needed a tool for and this is what 170 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,100 identity orchestration is all about is, you know, coming up 171 00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:11,400 with an abstraction layer or platform where you connect 172 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,900 identity services, like your single sign-on multi-factor 173 00:09:14,900 --> 00:09:19,800 tools along with Legacy Technologies and applications 174 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,100 that are in your Cloud infrastructure. 175 00:09:23,500 --> 00:09:27,900 But like I said that kind of like validated to me that this 176 00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:32,000 identity orchestration is something that people actually 177 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,500 need there. A couple other things I did come 178 00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:39,200 up in that whole dialogue as well which was one that really 179 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,300 jumped out at me was the piece around. 180 00:09:43,300 --> 00:09:46,400 I am policy. So not like policy 181 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,400 orchestration. I'm I'm talking about technical 182 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,100 policies but you know the Microsoft Word documents with 183 00:09:52,100 --> 00:09:56,600 the PDFs of like this is what Thou shalt do as an Enterprise 184 00:09:57,100 --> 00:10:01,300 employee and employee or an application over things like 185 00:10:01,300 --> 00:10:03,600 that. And I think one of the things I 186 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,300 poked struggle with is you're balancing. 187 00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:09,700 Okay, we have all these compliance requirements, but we 188 00:10:09,708 --> 00:10:14,700 also have legal requirements and then we have security best 189 00:10:14,700 --> 00:10:17,300 practices and we want to meld all those things. 190 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,500 Our policies them the question or the goal from there is to 191 00:10:21,500 --> 00:10:23,600 drive enforcement. So how are we getting? 192 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,900 You know, first the knowledge that folks are actually using 193 00:10:27,900 --> 00:10:33,700 these platforms and or complying with the policies and then how 194 00:10:33,700 --> 00:10:38,900 do we increase the the compliance with our own policies 195 00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:43,900 and it's just as you know, something that we've been, you 196 00:10:43,900 --> 00:10:47,300 know, solving in our I am strategy development for a long 197 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,700 Long time, have we talked about a framework and so, I was able 198 00:10:50,700 --> 00:10:53,500 to kind of contribute that to the group, which is, hey, this 199 00:10:53,500 --> 00:10:55,600 might not be the one and only answer. 200 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,300 But this is how we solve this in the past, which is really like, 201 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:04,000 you know, first off using those policies as a way to drive 202 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:08,200 adoption of your IM platforms by saying, if you're using our 203 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,600 single sign-on, if you're using our Pam in RI GA, you know, the 204 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,700 I am program offering of those Technologies. 205 00:11:15,700 --> 00:11:20,400 Well, that your Flying across all these policies that were 206 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,200 driving your the password policy things like that. 207 00:11:24,300 --> 00:11:29,100 And yeah. So you know that was kind of one 208 00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:32,000 of the things that I was able to contribute was that you can get 209 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,200 to that and then you know where you don't have compliance. 210 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:36,700 Yeah. You do need to check and folks 211 00:11:36,700 --> 00:11:39,900 that are out of compliance that. In other words, not following 212 00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:45,100 your corporate security or I a policies, it's kind of like 213 00:11:45,100 --> 00:11:47,000 that. I'd have a better way to put it 214 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,600 but now Almond shape. So it kind of like you know 215 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,000 identify put a spotlight on that. 216 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:53,300 This is where we're not compliant. 217 00:11:53,300 --> 00:11:56,900 This is where we're we're not following our own policies. 218 00:11:58,100 --> 00:12:01,000 Yeah I think it sounds like a good conversation. 219 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,900 Is it sounds to me also like it. Maybe it was something very 220 00:12:03,900 --> 00:12:05,800 specific to specific group of people. 221 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,500 So this is not something it's like publicly available that 222 00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:10,000 people can check out. Yeah. 223 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,100 Unfortunately that's the way these these membership has its 224 00:12:14,100 --> 00:12:17,200 privileges membership. Has its privileges but I think 225 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,700 it Nobody's interested. I can certainly link them into 226 00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:26,700 the folks of context so they can be invited to future events. 227 00:12:26,700 --> 00:12:28,300 I just reach out to me and like them. 228 00:12:28,700 --> 00:12:31,800 Yeah, I did something similar for the retail and Hospitality. 229 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,300 I sock group information, sharing and Analysis Center. 230 00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:38,100 Talked about ransomware and identity. 231 00:12:38,100 --> 00:12:41,700 And that's one of those things where, you know, it's a, it's a 232 00:12:41,700 --> 00:12:45,000 similar actually, you know, kind of an updated version of the 233 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,200 presentation that that you ditched me on. 234 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,100 I'm at last year's, authenticate talking about smart, I am to 235 00:12:51,108 --> 00:12:53,900 reduce ransomware. And so I kind of updated version 236 00:12:53,900 --> 00:12:56,400 of that. So I think you're going now, 237 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,800 we're even so. So if you're in the retail and 238 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:05,000 hospitality industry, definitely check out our hias a c.org. 239 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,000 It's a great group of folks that really kind of come to go to 240 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,500 kind of share information around information security in general 241 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,100 around retail and hospitality industries. 242 00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:17,300 So might be something worth checking out. 243 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,700 That's good folks over there and you know, membership has its 244 00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:21,000 privileges. You can you can check out a 245 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,300 replay of of the webinar, I did on that. 246 00:13:24,300 --> 00:13:28,000 So so we're going to think go ahead did want to mention one 247 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,600 other thing, which is, you know, I kind of feel like it's in our 248 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,500 nature. We're both 20 years in this 249 00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:37,800 industry that we're really focused on giving back, so it's 250 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,400 between this podcast and doing events like that. 251 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,400 But I also don't think you have to be in the industry for 20 252 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:48,300 years to give back. I wanted to give a shot Shout to 253 00:13:48,300 --> 00:13:51,100 Andrew, Chantal phone that I get his last name, right, chance 254 00:13:51,100 --> 00:13:52,400 bun. You did you got it? 255 00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:58,700 I nailed it for a change but he's put out a LinkedIn class 256 00:13:58,700 --> 00:14:01,100 that he led. My really, you know, just more 257 00:14:01,100 --> 00:14:03,800 or less been following it on his LinkedIn post. 258 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:05,700 I haven't actually gone out and done the training yet. 259 00:14:05,700 --> 00:14:08,800 But they're shout out to Andrew because I think the first time 260 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,100 we talked to him is heading to new in the industry and trying 261 00:14:12,100 --> 00:14:17,200 to give back at kind of this early stages. 262 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,500 Career and it's really admirable that he's doing that. 263 00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:25,500 He's putting himself out there, he's not afraid to you know make 264 00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:30,100 a mistake or something like that and I think that's a good 265 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:37,400 leadership you know but everybody quality to have right 266 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,200 there. Yeah I mean putting putting 267 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:40,600 herself out there is not easy right? 268 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,100 We do this podcast to do for a while every every time is a 269 00:14:43,108 --> 00:14:47,200 journey but you know, my hats off to anybody who produces. 270 00:14:47,300 --> 00:14:50,300 Content for other people to consume, doesn't matter what it 271 00:14:50,300 --> 00:14:52,500 is. Every one of those folks are 272 00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:55,800 putting themselves out there and yeah, sometimes, you know, 273 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,800 sometimes it's good content, sometimes it's not right. 274 00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:03,300 And if they're, you know, you can get easily kind of bogged 275 00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:07,300 down in the details especially if you're wrong on something. 276 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,200 And I think it's okay to be aware that. 277 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,300 Yeah, you're probably make a statement to stake at some point 278 00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:14,200 and as long as you're willing to own up to it. 279 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:14,800 But yeah. Okay. 280 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,900 Yeah let me correct that or change my way of Or whatever, 281 00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:20,500 you know what? It looks like that's cool too. 282 00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:23,600 So I think the more people who are out there contributing and 283 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,700 Andrew is certainly one of them, you know, I'm excited. 284 00:15:26,700 --> 00:15:28,700 So he's got next, he's got another class that he's working 285 00:15:28,700 --> 00:15:30,600 on. I didn't want to spoil his 286 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,800 thunder. So you know, I've invited him as 287 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,600 I hate when you're ready, you know, let's publicize it on on 288 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,500 our podcast, he's got his LinkedIn Channel, but there are 289 00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:40,800 others that are doing the same and yeah, I think having more 290 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,800 viewpoints in the world that people could consume and take as 291 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:45,800 a data point for their own decision-making. 292 00:15:45,900 --> 00:15:49,700 Just makes everyone smarter And makes it easier for everybody to 293 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,900 get better, you know, every day. So, totally agree with that one. 294 00:15:55,000 --> 00:16:00,400 Yeah, you know, Andrews been on a mission to bring more people 295 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:05,900 into the industry. I saw Bill Nelson, put out the 296 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:11,100 ID, Pro monthly newsletter email and he cited a statistic, where 297 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,100 the I am industry is expected to double in the next five years 298 00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:19,700 from 13 billion 226 billion. It's not too late to join the 299 00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:22,500 party folks. That's exactly right. 300 00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:25,900 Yeah, I'd love to see more content around the business. 301 00:16:25,900 --> 00:16:28,200 Side of I am. There's lots of Technical 302 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,800 Training and sort of, like, you know, here's how to do X inside 303 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,800 of why application. What I don't see a lot is sort 304 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,900 of like all the intangibles that sit between sort of like the 305 00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:40,600 engineering aspect and sort of like the information of how to 306 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,700 do things and the real world, right. 307 00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:45,600 How do you get buy-in from the business? 308 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,900 How do you run? And I am program. 309 00:16:48,900 --> 00:16:51,000 How do you know what are some things to think about if you're 310 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,300 establishing policies and procedures are standards for 311 00:16:53,300 --> 00:16:55,800 things like that. So I think that's something 312 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,200 that, you know, we might see some some uptick in in the next 313 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,400 couple of years, I don't want to spoil any things that we might 314 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,700 be, you know, working on. But that is an area that I think 315 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:07,900 more people contributing to the better for everybody. 316 00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:10,599 Absolutely. Alright. 317 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:12,300 So let's get to your conversation. 318 00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:14,800 You had with Jerry. But before we do that, I 319 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,200 mentioned that I was in the RV capital of the World, Elkhart 320 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,300 Indiana, I think earlier on, I didn't realize that it was the 321 00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:23,099 RV capital of the world. I guess I kind of knew in the 322 00:17:23,099 --> 00:17:24,900 back of my head because of kind of live in the Chicago area for 323 00:17:24,900 --> 00:17:28,200 so long. But did you know that there is a 324 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:35,200 RV /, manufactured housing, or manufactured home Hall of Fame? 325 00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:39,700 I was not aware of that. Yeah, so it is across the street 326 00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:45,500 from our SM offices in Elkhart. Yeah, I have not been to it, but 327 00:17:45,500 --> 00:17:47,900 I wasn't aware that there was, there was Thing. 328 00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:52,300 Yeah, I mean, there's, you know, one thing that I found out is 329 00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:57,100 that there are so many different manufacturers of RVs & 330 00:17:57,100 --> 00:18:02,000 motorhomes. I had a Jayco brand and that, 331 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,100 you know, one of the big trends right now is that there are 332 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,900 sites that are kind of like airbnb's for RVs. 333 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,200 So you, if you have one, it's in decent condition. 334 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,000 You can print it out which I think is super cool. 335 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,300 It's parked on a lot of And you've kind of got almost like a 336 00:18:19,300 --> 00:18:20,400 tiny home, right? Yeah. 337 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,500 Well, most people know, it's not even to leave it on land. 338 00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:27,000 I mean that the idea is that people can actually drive it and 339 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,000 okay. So yeah and so, you know, I 340 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,600 think the most people who have RVs, at least what I had an RV 341 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:35,900 is like use a couple times a year. 342 00:18:35,908 --> 00:18:38,900 And for the most part, you're paying insurance and maintenance 343 00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:45,900 and all, and, you know, taxes, basically registration taxes for 344 00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:48,800 to sit there and not get used. So if you're able to read it out 345 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,000 and recoup some of that money. And also, I mean, I think one of 346 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,900 the great things about Airbnb is not only the fact that you can 347 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,700 make money from the, you know, from renting out your place. 348 00:18:58,700 --> 00:19:01,900 But also to somebody else, gets to enjoy it and somebody else 349 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:03,900 gets to build their experiences there. 350 00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:07,700 So, yeah, I think it's kind of contributing to the good in the 351 00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:10,600 world. So it's got me thinking, you 352 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,800 know, we usually lighter note the end, but we're going to end 353 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,300 this episode with your conversation with Jerry. 354 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,400 Let's do that. Now what? 355 00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:24,400 Does your perfect RV look like? So I I had an RV like I 356 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,300 mentioned it was a classy. But it was 40 foot too big. 357 00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:31,800 It was like it was not even a little whom, is it be home on 358 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,700 Wheels. So definitely have to be smaller 359 00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:39,100 more maneuverable. And it would have to have, you 360 00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:43,200 know, either some kind of vehicle that came out of the 361 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,700 side or that you dragged behind it. 362 00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:50,500 Because if you're going to Have that kind of motor home then? 363 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,600 Actually, I think I would just rather than that, as pull 364 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,200 something behind, but I definitely would like to get on 365 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,900 the electric Trend. Okay? 366 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,300 So, the main point is what I really wanted to say about my, 367 00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:08,900 my dream RV would be that the worst part of having an RV is 368 00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:11,600 doing the sewer. It's disgusting. 369 00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:14,900 You have like, basically this long tube that you hook from the 370 00:20:14,900 --> 00:20:20,200 side of your RV into this train, A pipe and you have to like 371 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:24,200 drain out your your black water which is the worst stuff and 372 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,300 then flush it out with your gray water. 373 00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:29,700 It's like a process that you go through to basically clean out 374 00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:32,400 your, your sewage tank is disgusting. 375 00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:36,900 And if you have any kind of mistaken, you better put on 376 00:20:36,900 --> 00:20:40,200 plastic gloves every time because the one time that you 377 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,400 don't, you're going to get some sewage on your hands and you, it 378 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:48,700 doesn't just wash off it stinks. You're not you're not really 379 00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:52,600 helping me, you know, want to do this very much, but I was 380 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,700 thinking like I'm the same like I want something that's easy and 381 00:20:55,700 --> 00:21:00,800 I think something that is like an electrified version of a RV 382 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,700 of some sort would be kind of cool. 383 00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:07,100 Yeah, I want the bells and whistles like I want Wi-Fi. 384 00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:08,900 You know, I want to basically have like a hotel room on 385 00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:11,200 Wheels. It's kind of a, but I'm thinking 386 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,900 about it. Yeah, I actually had a VW 387 00:21:14,900 --> 00:21:19,400 Vanagon back in the 90s and they were built mostly in the 80s. 388 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:24,400 It was like, look, you don't have the shower and the toilet, 389 00:21:24,408 --> 00:21:26,500 but most campgrounds, have those things. 390 00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:30,500 So if you're willing to use public stuff for that, I mean 391 00:21:30,508 --> 00:21:33,900 it's it's really convenient because you can park it on a 392 00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:38,700 normal parking spot, and it's got a cool factor to and BMW, 393 00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:42,500 has a has a, their updated ID that buzz is there, electrified 394 00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:46,700 little VW band. Type thing, coming out, coming 395 00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:47,900 out Out. But you know what? 396 00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:51,400 They've been talking about that going to help for like decades 397 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,600 now. I mean, seriously think it's 398 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:54,700 closed. I think it's like within the 399 00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:57,700 next year or so it's already being driven around and sort of 400 00:21:57,700 --> 00:22:00,500 tested. So it will be sold out 401 00:22:00,700 --> 00:22:02,900 constantly. You'll have every order animals. 402 00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:05,800 So yeah, that's true. But even if it wasn't even if 403 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,000 electric vehicles weren't going, the way they are VW stuff. 404 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,700 Has just so much demand. I'm surprised they haven't 405 00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:14,600 released it sooner. Cara. 406 00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:17,800 Okay. Anything else before we hear 407 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:18,900 from yourself? A Jerry? 408 00:22:19,700 --> 00:22:24,000 No, I'm going to be rooting for my Georgia, Bulldogs today and 409 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,700 the Philadelphia Phillies because I'm not a Houston Astros 410 00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:31,500 fan. So let the hate mail flow so 411 00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:35,500 Phillies and I guess anti Astros is how your position is. 412 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,100 Yeah. And I'd like the Bulldogs over 413 00:22:39,100 --> 00:22:43,600 the volunteers of Tennessee and I have zero positions on either. 414 00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:46,400 Let's get into your conversation with Jerry. 415 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,400 Thanks everyone for listening and we'll see everybody at 416 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,800 Octane and then in a few days I'm here with Jerry, Gable head 417 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,500 of standards as shred identity. Hi Jerry. 418 00:22:55,400 --> 00:23:00,000 Hey, Jim great to be back with you, great to have you again, we 419 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:05,200 saw each other Gardner recently, it was great to see you and we 420 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,900 decided we needed to catch back up with this. 421 00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:11,100 Is your second time on the identity at the center podcast. 422 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,100 So you know, the normal routine is we ask Q. 423 00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:17,800 How did you get into identity? But since we already got that 424 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,600 story from you and anyone who's interested in checking that out 425 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,200 they should go back to that. Episode my question more is 426 00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:29,200 what's what's been? What's new for you? 427 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,000 Since the last time you're on the podcast? 428 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,700 I know there were some new things getting started and 429 00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:36,200 hopefully you have an update for us. 430 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,200 Yeah, I sure do and I know we'll get into that as we as we 431 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,000 continue here but yes, it was great to see you at the gardener 432 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,300 identity. On Friends. 433 00:23:44,700 --> 00:23:49,800 It reminded me of my actually my first visit to the first 434 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,400 Gardener identity conference back in the day, I think it was 435 00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:54,700 circuit two thousand six or seven. 436 00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:59,000 I was a burden group at the time and I tried to get Gartner to 437 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,900 give me a comp tickets to the show, you know, just because we 438 00:24:01,900 --> 00:24:04,500 wanted to check it out, of course, identity had been a big 439 00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:07,600 part of the burden group Catalyst conferences for many 440 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,600 years and because Gardner had got an idea. 441 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,500 Hey, this is a big thing, we should get into it. 442 00:24:13,700 --> 00:24:15,900 As well. But that was it was interesting 443 00:24:15,900 --> 00:24:18,700 to see their show the first time around and you know it's 444 00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:21,000 definitely one of the better identity conferences in the 445 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,400 industry these days. So it's definitely a must-see 446 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,900 for folks that wanted to see and hear what gardeners thinking 447 00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:31,100 about on the identity landscape. Yeah. 448 00:24:31,100 --> 00:24:34,200 One of my favorite things about their conferences that you meet, 449 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,700 a lot of people who are new to the space who are trying to wrap 450 00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:40,700 their brains around it. And I think Gardner does a 451 00:24:40,700 --> 00:24:46,200 really good job of kind of No making things understandable for 452 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,700 folks who are coming from a different perspective, maybe 453 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,800 other parts of it or other parts of the business and trying to 454 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,500 wrap the rate their brains around this thing of what is 455 00:24:56,500 --> 00:24:58,600 identity? Access management. 456 00:24:58,700 --> 00:25:00,100 Yeah, I totally agree with that end. 457 00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:03,100 In there were several really good presentations by buying 458 00:25:03,100 --> 00:25:06,200 some of the analysts and definitely enjoyed that part of 459 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,900 the event. But you also ask the you know, 460 00:25:07,900 --> 00:25:12,600 what's new here on on the front front lines of identity 461 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,100 orchestration and what I've been working on, I think last year 462 00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:21,800 when we spoke might have been the first public mention of the 463 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,700 identity query language standard that we've been working on. 464 00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:30,200 So that's been been my focus at people like to come on this 465 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,300 podcast, to break big news. So, well, when you, if you want 466 00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:36,900 to say, you heard it here first, it's actually true. 467 00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:42,300 So kudos to you guys for wanting to learn more about that, but 468 00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:45,800 since then we've been doing Lot of work on the project, a lot of 469 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:50,000 work on the open source heart of it that we call hexa hvx. 470 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,500 A and the I guess the other big news is that over the summer 471 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,400 over this past summer the CN CF. The cloud need of computing 472 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:04,600 Foundation accepted by 2 ql and hexa as a Sandbox project. 473 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,800 So that's a huge milestone for us. 474 00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:11,000 Congratulations on that. That took a lot of work. 475 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,000 I'm sure, you know, one of the things that we like to do with 476 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,500 the podcast is not lose people too quickly, right? 477 00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:25,000 So maybe we start at the basics is shredded identity of solving 478 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,700 a problem. The solution is called identity 479 00:26:29,700 --> 00:26:32,900 orchestration, but the problem is really around this 480 00:26:33,100 --> 00:26:39,400 multi-cloud, Pidp situation that so many companies are in as not 481 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:45,100 just big multi multinational conglomerate corporations but 482 00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:50,200 it's even mid-sized companies. So maybe talk about that problem 483 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,900 a little bit and what you guys do with the identity 484 00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:55,400 orchestration to kind of solve it. 485 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,500 Absolutely the identity orchestration is really a new 486 00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:02,900 technique and new technology within the identity industry 487 00:27:02,900 --> 00:27:05,400 these days. You know, it's strata is Is the 488 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,700 one really to I identify this as something new and different, and 489 00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:12,700 to invent the concept and it's really about building an 490 00:27:12,700 --> 00:27:16,500 abstraction layer between your applications. 491 00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:19,600 And all of the identity infrastructure that those 492 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,600 applications consume them primarily we talked about idps, 493 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,700 you've identity providers were authentication providers and 494 00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:30,200 things of that nature. But yeah, it's this abstraction 495 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:35,100 that decouples your apps from the identity function. 496 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,200 It's so that you can do a lot of, you know, more flexible 497 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,200 things today with software that you could not do previously, you 498 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,700 know, if you wanted to modernize the authentication of an 499 00:27:46,700 --> 00:27:49,500 application, you actually had to rewrite that part of the app. 500 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:55,200 For example, you know, if you want to add MFA or password list 501 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,600 to existing applications, it's really difficult to modernize 502 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,100 them in that way because, you know, they weren't maybe some of 503 00:28:02,100 --> 00:28:05,700 them weren't even built for Samuel, you know, maybe A lot of 504 00:28:05,700 --> 00:28:08,900 Legacy applications that are very important to distances, 505 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,600 still use things like ldap authentication. 506 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:17,100 He was so how can you break that Bond and you modernize that to 507 00:28:17,100 --> 00:28:21,600 you, something like open ID, connect and in addition add-on 508 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,800 MFA, or password list where needed. 509 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,300 So that's what an identity orchestration, abstraction layer 510 00:28:27,300 --> 00:28:32,900 can accomplish because you connect the idps MFA and other 511 00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:38,000 identity functions to the Fabric to the abstraction layer and the 512 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,800 orchestration is the you've sort of the flow of what happens when 513 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,300 a session is initiated, you know, I'm a business user trying 514 00:28:45,300 --> 00:28:48,200 to access a certain application which I DP. 515 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,200 Should I go to, for certain parts of that application? 516 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,400 Maybe they're more sensitive. I need to use a step-up 517 00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,200 authentication or MFA. And again the identity 518 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:05,100 orchestration layer can manage that sort of session flow until 519 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,100 Open. Ultimately, you get the 520 00:29:07,100 --> 00:29:10,900 application, the information it needs to to properly establish 521 00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:13,200 the user session. Yeah. 522 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:18,700 That abstraction layer I mean that seems to be the you know 523 00:29:18,700 --> 00:29:24,300 such a common architectural principle now and how you take 524 00:29:25,100 --> 00:29:30,500 Legacy applications infrastructure and kind of you 525 00:29:30,508 --> 00:29:34,500 know integrate them with with modern Technologies and it 526 00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:38,800 sounds like Really, that's what the identity orchestration is 527 00:29:38,808 --> 00:29:42,200 really about and it provides that Rosetta Stone because 528 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:43,300 that's the hard part. Right? 529 00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:47,600 Is like you know, when I think about all of these applications 530 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:52,900 is they all are not only applications but platforms, Etc. 531 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,600 They all have their own way of integrating communicating 532 00:29:58,100 --> 00:30:01,300 providing authentication. So is the identity orchestration 533 00:30:01,300 --> 00:30:03,300 layer. From what I understand that you 534 00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:05,600 know provides that Rosetta Stone. 535 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,800 So that you as a practitioner you as a company don't have to 536 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,700 solve this for all of the platforms that you need to 537 00:30:12,700 --> 00:30:15,500 integrate. That's right because when we 538 00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:18,500 talk to customers you know so many of them have you know 539 00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:21,200 hundreds of applications, maybe a few thousand. 540 00:30:21,700 --> 00:30:26,300 So if you think about you incorporating password list for 541 00:30:26,300 --> 00:30:32,200 each of them you just you don't have enough time or resources or 542 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,300 budget to accomplish that but instead You the orchestration 543 00:30:36,300 --> 00:30:40,900 layer, connects to the applications and you connect the 544 00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:44,900 MFA or password lives or the IDP to the orchestration layer and 545 00:30:44,900 --> 00:30:48,100 we can coordinate. We can broker those interactions 546 00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:52,800 in a much more efficient way so that's what strata and Identity 547 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,600 orchestration or all about. Can I ask you a question here is 548 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,200 to talk about is this terms of Legacy? 549 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,300 Yes yeah when we talk about this term Legacy, I know it you know 550 00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:07,500 one point my career I meant one thing and one thing only which 551 00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:13,000 was the green screen, nowadays? I mean, you can talk about like, 552 00:31:13,300 --> 00:31:19,600 well certainly, any kind of like corba or Java applications even 553 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:26,000 but it, you know more like web enabled applications, maybe 554 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,100 header, based authentication. So how far back can you go? 555 00:31:30,100 --> 00:31:31,700 I mean, when are you talking about? 556 00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:35,000 You can even integrate the the green screens into some of these 557 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,600 Idps or just it's just not possible with the technology. 558 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,900 Yeah, it's a wide range of Technology of application 559 00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:46,400 technologies that can be supported, definitely had her 560 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,900 based apps, you know, that's sort of table Stakes. 561 00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:53,900 You need to be able to bring those older applications that 562 00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:55,300 still have a lot of business value. 563 00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:58,700 You need to continue to bring them forward into into the 564 00:31:58,700 --> 00:32:01,600 modern way of managing them and so yeah. 565 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,700 So there's, you know, there's definitely techniques for 566 00:32:03,700 --> 00:32:06,700 dealing with them and Kerberos Stamps for example. 567 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,300 Yeah I remember kind of some my my earlier projects in my ID 568 00:32:12,300 --> 00:32:17,100 career was you know, building web interfaces to Mainframe 569 00:32:17,100 --> 00:32:21,000 applications and you know, those were not fun projects. 570 00:32:21,300 --> 00:32:23,500 A lot of screen scraping and stuff going on in the 571 00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:27,000 background. Yeah, they're still out there, 572 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,200 right? The, you know, the mainframes 573 00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:31,000 will will be out there for, for quite a long time. 574 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,600 Yeah, absolutely. So, You would mention the 575 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:42,300 updates to the new standards. Would you kind of give a little 576 00:32:42,300 --> 00:32:46,200 bit more background of what their standards are all about? 577 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,100 And kind of what the process is like that. 578 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,400 You're going through because you're the head of standards. 579 00:32:53,700 --> 00:32:58,300 What does it mean to kind of develop a standard and get 580 00:32:58,300 --> 00:33:00,700 people to buy into it was that whole process? 581 00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:04,100 Like, but me first, start with just like the update on the 582 00:33:04,100 --> 00:33:06,500 those two particular Sinners. Sure. 583 00:33:07,300 --> 00:33:09,000 Yes. So we talked about identity 584 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,500 orchestration here. Neo to how do you deal with 585 00:33:11,900 --> 00:33:15,500 applications deployed across multiple clouds and you still 586 00:33:15,500 --> 00:33:21,000 hybrid deployments dealing with multiple idps and you all other 587 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,800 kinds of authentication and that abuse providers. 588 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,000 If we think about policy orchestration, it sort of the, 589 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,800 you the flip side of that. Because each Cloud platform each 590 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,700 major Cloud platform has its own way of defining access policy 591 00:33:37,700 --> 00:33:41,200 and how they enforce it. And this is true also up and 592 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,500 down the stack you know from the application to the 593 00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:48,200 infrastructure and platform to the data level and even to 594 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,800 networks you can zero trust network access. 595 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,700 So you have all of these different And policy formats 596 00:33:55,100 --> 00:33:58,200 then think about, you know, how difficult it is to manage that 597 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,500 just you know, from a staffing perspective you need skill sets 598 00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:05,900 now and all of these different areas because each of those 599 00:34:05,900 --> 00:34:12,300 systems manages access in a primarily, a proprietary way and 600 00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:18,300 then also how difficult it is to really govern that sort of 601 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,199 complex environment who has access to what it's still a very 602 00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:24,199 difficult. Question to answer. 603 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,400 So, when we looked at this space, we came up with the idea 604 00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:35,500 of identity query language or I dql as a way to generically 605 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,199 define the access policy. So it's a declarative format. 606 00:34:40,699 --> 00:34:45,400 That's meant to describe you. The vast majority of use cases, 607 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,600 but it's not just to be clear, it's not a runtime policy 608 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,699 decisioning or enforcement mechanism, it's it. 609 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:58,400 Way to Define policy in a generic format and then the hexa 610 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,100 software that I mentioned before, Tech say is an open 611 00:35:01,100 --> 00:35:07,200 source software project that implements, I dql and translates 612 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,000 that I dql into the bespoke OR imperative format of the target 613 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,200 system. So you can imagine that over 614 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,200 time as we have more and more Integrations and connections 615 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:22,800 available, you'll be able to bring in more and more access. 616 00:35:22,900 --> 00:35:26,000 These from these different Target systems and be able to 617 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,800 manage them in a single way, be able to do reporting analytics 618 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:34,200 governance on them. And also just use the power or 619 00:35:34,300 --> 00:35:39,500 of the the hex ni de que. El model to manage many, many 620 00:35:39,500 --> 00:35:42,900 Target systems in a uniform and consistent way. 621 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,100 So that's what that's why we came up with the idea of this 622 00:35:47,100 --> 00:35:53,200 project and the folks at at strata you know, our From our 623 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,300 Founders and management team. They were part of the sam'l 624 00:35:56,300 --> 00:35:59,100 definition, way back in the day, right? 625 00:35:59,100 --> 00:36:04,700 So we have folks here there were co-authors of sam'l, so we, it's 626 00:36:04,700 --> 00:36:09,800 really in our DNA to support and really invest in Industry 627 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,600 standards. And we felt strongly enough that 628 00:36:12,900 --> 00:36:16,300 this is not something just that strata should consume, but that 629 00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:19,200 it should be, you know, part of an industry wide effort, to try 630 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,200 to address some of these challenges that customers are 631 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,900 facing And so samples are standard. 632 00:36:24,900 --> 00:36:27,700 They're really took off Wade. I think if you're listening to 633 00:36:27,700 --> 00:36:30,900 this podcast, you're probably well familiar with Sam. 634 00:36:30,900 --> 00:36:37,700 Oh, what does it take to get? That kind of, you know, ubiquity 635 00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:42,700 in a standard. Yeah, it does take a lot of lot 636 00:36:42,700 --> 00:36:46,900 of effort, a lot of coordination and and time commitment. 637 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,900 So what we did was we started out writing, you know, the the 638 00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:54,600 Baseline. White paper, if you will 639 00:36:54,800 --> 00:37:00,300 describing what what it, what I dql consisted of, and we started 640 00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:03,800 looking around talking to to customers and partners and 641 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:09,000 seeing who was interested to get in at the start, and really help 642 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,300 to build this out. So we talked to a lot of 643 00:37:11,300 --> 00:37:15,400 customer organizations about, you know, some of their issues 644 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,600 and and then it death, you know, the concept definitely resonated 645 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,000 with them. They saw this as a challenge 646 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,600 that really It was on met by a lot of the you, the primary 647 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:31,500 vendors in this space today. And and so we use the, you know, 648 00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:36,300 the customer review here to help help build the the impetus and 649 00:37:36,300 --> 00:37:42,500 the momentum behind the effort. And we also started building the 650 00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:46,700 hexa open source software because it's, we weren't 651 00:37:46,700 --> 00:37:50,000 starting out to just Define a specification, you know, pretty 652 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,700 much anyone can do that, but we wanted to Show that it could 653 00:37:53,700 --> 00:37:57,200 actually work, you know? So that's why we have the hex 654 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:02,100 open source project as a component of this whole project 655 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,700 is to show that we can take, you know, I dql and convert it to 656 00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:11,100 you the Google Cloud platform format or as yours or AWS, you 657 00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:14,300 know, that we can connect to those platforms and using their 658 00:38:14,300 --> 00:38:19,300 public apis to discover. What application resources are 659 00:38:19,300 --> 00:38:22,100 there within a domain or project? 660 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,800 What a access policies are already defined, you know, pull 661 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,100 them in, translate them to the, I dql format. 662 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,000 Now we've got you know, many applications, many systems in in 663 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,700 the administrative view so we can manage them from there. 664 00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:41,400 We can make changes to that policy and then retranslated to 665 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:46,100 the imperative or bespoke format of the target system and use 666 00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:48,600 orchestrations and push that out there and activated. 667 00:38:48,900 --> 00:38:52,500 And and again I'll reinforce that we don't replace. 668 00:38:52,900 --> 00:38:56,300 Runtime decision or enforcement functions. 669 00:38:56,700 --> 00:39:01,200 We are just an administrative function of managing the access 670 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,600 policy itself. Yeah, right. 671 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,900 I mean, it's just a Rosetta Stone that we talked about, 672 00:39:06,900 --> 00:39:09,100 right? So we got, you know, so we 673 00:39:09,100 --> 00:39:12,200 developed this working group, we started working on the open 674 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,500 source. We built out and rode the first 675 00:39:14,500 --> 00:39:19,100 edition of the specification. And earlier this year, we 676 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,700 submitted a proposal into the cloud native computing. 677 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:27,000 The foundation because we wanted to be part of an industry 678 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,700 organization that was vendor-neutral that had all of 679 00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:33,800 the protections you know of until actual property and so on. 680 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,400 So that as new contributors came on to the project they would 681 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,000 have the the Comfort or the confidence of being within that 682 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:47,200 sort of intellectual property regime and and then early in the 683 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:52,400 summer we got approval for for a Sandbox project as I as I 684 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:53,300 mentioned. Earlier. 685 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,500 So now we're, you know, we're opening up that working group 686 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,500 membership to more and more people, bringing more and more 687 00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:03,600 folks into the project and you know we're just continuing 688 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,600 onward and upward and in trying to build more more momentum and 689 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,000 you know, eventually get to that point where we see idq all being 690 00:40:12,300 --> 00:40:14,900 a common standard implemented in the industry. 691 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,300 That's yeah to me that seems like that's the mark of success. 692 00:40:19,300 --> 00:40:23,300 It's kind of like when you have a child raise the child And then 693 00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:26,600 they move out of your house and they go live their own life that 694 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,400 it's kind of, like success on child rearing and it seems like 695 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,600 right developing a standard Europe, Angela lysing. 696 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,100 It you're bringing other people into the fold or some point, it 697 00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:39,500 kind of goes off and lives the life of its own. 698 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,200 It does ultimately it has to go out into the wild on its own and 699 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,500 stand on its own merits. You're right, you're right about 700 00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:48,100 that. So I know you're you're we had 701 00:40:48,100 --> 00:40:51,600 Gary verow on the yes, on the podcast. 702 00:40:51,700 --> 00:40:56,300 Couple weeks back. He's running the Chrysalis 703 00:40:56,300 --> 00:40:59,100 conference and you're going to be one of the speakers. 704 00:40:59,100 --> 00:41:02,200 You're on a panel, they're talking about this very topic. 705 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:07,000 So I guess that's part of the evangelization of the standard, 706 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,600 right? Is generating awareness and what 707 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,000 else is are you hoping to get out of being on that panel? 708 00:41:14,900 --> 00:41:17,800 Yeah it's definitely creating more and more awareness. 709 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,600 You know them Gary and team of are putting together a great. 710 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,300 Content of the Gent, you know? And agenda of content for for 711 00:41:26,300 --> 00:41:30,600 Crystal has again this year and we think it's you know another 712 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:35,600 good audience to talk about the ID ql standard and how far we've 713 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,900 come and the things we want to do in the future. 714 00:41:37,900 --> 00:41:41,200 You know the things we have on our roadmap and so be on a panel 715 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,500 with way delery of brilliant logic. 716 00:41:43,500 --> 00:41:46,700 But it's done, I guess, two or three webinars with, in the past 717 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,400 Pam, Dingle is going to be on there from the ahead of Sanders 718 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:55,600 from Microsoft as well. Patrick from Ping Identity, it's 719 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,000 going to be on the panel. So I think it'll be interesting. 720 00:41:58,900 --> 00:42:01,900 Definitely some different viewpoints to talk about there. 721 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,800 Yeah, I guess, you know, probably one of the keys on 722 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:12,100 getting a standard adopted, these days, just getting support 723 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:17,100 adoption of the standard by some of the the what they call Big 724 00:42:17,100 --> 00:42:20,800 Tech Amazon. Microsoft, Google, right? 725 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,100 I mean, that's kind of like when They're kind of buying into it. 726 00:42:24,100 --> 00:42:27,500 I think I would think that's, you know, what can really make 727 00:42:27,500 --> 00:42:31,600 this thing take off it, can, you know, that's even it's obviously 728 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,600 very helpful to get a big Marquee, vendor like that 729 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,800 involved in the process and we've been having some of those 730 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,300 conversations. But it, I said earlier, it's 731 00:42:41,300 --> 00:42:45,900 also important that vendors hear about this from the customer 732 00:42:45,900 --> 00:42:50,700 side from the Enterprise side, and we're starting to see some 733 00:42:50,700 --> 00:42:54,000 of that happen. And then also, So we've gotten 734 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,700 quite a bit of coverage from Gartner, you mentioned. 735 00:42:56,700 --> 00:42:59,900 You speaking of the identity conference that you I saw you 736 00:42:59,900 --> 00:43:04,300 had recently you know I dql is being tracked by the analyst 737 00:43:04,300 --> 00:43:07,200 Community as well. Uniteq Vision, Gartner Forrester 738 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,700 and others and you know, that's also helping to raise awareness 739 00:43:11,700 --> 00:43:15,000 of it, get from the Enterprise customer side of things. 740 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,300 Yeah, I think one of the cool things also about the crystals 741 00:43:19,300 --> 00:43:23,900 conference is, you know, you had mentioned June that Gartner 742 00:43:23,900 --> 00:43:27,800 conference back in 2006 and I think that was my first Gartner 743 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,300 conference says, well, you know, that was when I was kind of like 744 00:43:31,300 --> 00:43:36,500 really getting into this industry and I think I was also 745 00:43:36,500 --> 00:43:40,600 at the burden group conference a year, but that aside and digital 746 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,200 ID world is like I said and all the conference's van I was going 747 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:49,800 crazy but one of the things I realized was identity and access 748 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,800 management is a special industry. 749 00:43:52,100 --> 00:43:55,900 We're not Getting in the room and talking about technology but 750 00:43:55,900 --> 00:44:00,200 there's also kind of a philosophy that plays into this 751 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:04,800 like what is your identity? And I, you know, where I see 752 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,800 that really manifesting today is on this whole idea of like 753 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,000 digital wallets and decentralized identity in the 754 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,800 ability for a person to actually own their identity. 755 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,100 You know, there are several areas that are that are real 756 00:44:19,100 --> 00:44:21,100 interesting like that. You always see these. 757 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,500 These new things cropping Yup. But to me, like, that could 758 00:44:25,900 --> 00:44:30,500 literally transform how this industry looks further on down 759 00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:31,600 the road. What do you think? 760 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,600 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely yeah, we started 761 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:43,200 talking about, we called it limited liability, personas back 762 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:47,000 at Burton group and I forget which Catalyst conference it 763 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,200 was, but it was around that time frame 06-07 that Bob Blakely 764 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:56,000 gave a talk on this And I'm, you know, another subject was that 765 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,900 the identity Oracle, if you will you know the limited release of 766 00:45:00,100 --> 00:45:04,100 attribute information about a person given the context of a 767 00:45:04,100 --> 00:45:06,700 transaction or for an interaction online. 768 00:45:07,100 --> 00:45:09,300 So yeah. We've been talking about these 769 00:45:09,300 --> 00:45:13,400 sorts of things for a long time. I think the biggest impediment 770 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:18,700 really has been the business model of those properties that 771 00:45:18,700 --> 00:45:21,600 you're trying to interact with. You know, are they really going 772 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:22,800 to give up? Up. 773 00:45:23,100 --> 00:45:27,700 You know the ownership of all this data about you is you I 774 00:45:27,707 --> 00:45:31,600 think has always remains. The biggest challenge is not the 775 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,000 technology per se. You know there's I think you 776 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,300 know the some of the Sovereign identity folks are taking a 777 00:45:37,308 --> 00:45:41,100 different techno technological approach to it with limited 778 00:45:41,100 --> 00:45:44,200 liability personas. We're thinking of it more in a 779 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:49,400 legal context knew that you would actually incorporate some 780 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,300 kind of pseudo identity of yourself. 781 00:45:52,300 --> 00:45:57,800 So that Could have some of the same protections that a regular 782 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,900 Corporation has. So we were taking more of that 783 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,700 angle rather than a technological one. 784 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:08,400 But again, bottom line is I think the you the economic 785 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,600 business model is still a symmetrical when it comes to an 786 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:17,000 individual consumer. Say, trying to limit how much 787 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,300 information Amazon collects about them. 788 00:46:20,700 --> 00:46:26,400 Yeah, absolutely and You know, Jeff likes to use the the quote, 789 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:32,500 if the product is free, you're the product and I was going to a 790 00:46:32,500 --> 00:46:33,900 podcast. I wanted to get this out. 791 00:46:33,900 --> 00:46:37,800 There is tools and weapons with Brad Smith. 792 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,500 I mean, I think he's got a really good podcast as a recent 793 00:46:41,500 --> 00:46:44,700 episode you did with Kara Swisher, who was like a 794 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:52,300 journalist in kind of multiple eras of Silicon Valley, right? 795 00:46:52,300 --> 00:46:56,100 And she Talking a lot about that, you know, all with 796 00:46:56,100 --> 00:46:59,900 Facebook was coming along and other platforms trying to figure 797 00:46:59,900 --> 00:47:03,300 out what the business model is and how can a business model 798 00:47:03,300 --> 00:47:07,500 succeed on Advertising alone? Well, it's essentially selling 799 00:47:07,500 --> 00:47:10,800 people's private information or using that private information 800 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:16,300 to Target advertising toward that person, right? 801 00:47:16,300 --> 00:47:19,300 And we obviously we're seeing many examples of that business 802 00:47:19,300 --> 00:47:22,500 model in effect these days. Yeah, absolutely. 803 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,300 Lee. Well, Jerry it was great 804 00:47:24,300 --> 00:47:27,500 catching up with you. Hope we can have you back on 805 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:32,100 some point in the future and get some more updates on how things 806 00:47:32,100 --> 00:47:36,000 are going with the standards and the adoption and the growth of 807 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,600 them. Anything that you want to leave 808 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,000 the losers with before we close out. 809 00:47:42,900 --> 00:47:45,700 Well, I think you guys have been talking about and all the 810 00:47:45,700 --> 00:47:49,700 conference's that you're attending these days and yeah it 811 00:47:49,700 --> 00:47:53,400 seems to be conference season in full for so I'll Chrysalis next 812 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,600 week, as you mentioned, looking forward to connecting with some 813 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,100 folks. Folks, there are a lot of old 814 00:47:59,100 --> 00:48:02,900 friends used to work with, but then taking a break for the 815 00:48:02,908 --> 00:48:04,400 holidays. And then, you know, things that 816 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,300 we could get started again next year. 817 00:48:06,500 --> 00:48:08,000 Cloud. Native security conference for 818 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,100 looking forward to, as well as RSA, I guess that's an April 819 00:48:12,100 --> 00:48:16,500 coming up next year. Yeah, looking March, March next 820 00:48:16,500 --> 00:48:20,100 year and say it again, sorry gardeners and March next year. 821 00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:21,900 That's right. And in Texas, you know, so they 822 00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:23,100 finally moved out. To Vegas. 823 00:48:23,100 --> 00:48:26,400 So glad glad to see that he has to just looking forward to that, 824 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:30,600 too. I like me, some Vegas, but this 825 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,900 year I had to go twice within the same month that I was like, 826 00:48:34,100 --> 00:48:36,800 that's way too much. Yeah I've got it pretty limited 827 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:41,200 thresholds for my tolerance of Vegas these days but it's really 828 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:44,800 it's great to catch up with with Folks at these events. 829 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,000 So definitely look forward to doing that and seeing you and 830 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,800 Jeff out there again. Yeah, we'll look forward to that 831 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,600 as well. Thanks a lot Jerry. 832 00:48:51,900 --> 00:48:53,600 Thank you. Appreciate it, a gym. 833 00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,100 Thanks for listening to the identity at the center podcast. 834 00:49:01,100 --> 00:49:03,500 If you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe and 835 00:49:03,500 --> 00:49:06,200 visit us on the web and identity at the center.com.