1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:10,440 This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with 2 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:17,960 IAM, this is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and 3 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:23,120 Jeff Stedman. Welcome to the Identity at the 4 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:24,880 Center podcast. I'm Jeff and that's Jim. 5 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:26,640 Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff, how are you? 6 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:29,000 Oh, not so bad yourself. Doing great. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,560 I've been looking forward to this episode for a long time and 8 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:36,680 I don't want to make this all about me right, but my entry 9 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:43,600 into the Identity space was in B to B User Management and Access 10 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,000 Management, and essentially I didn't even know what Identity 11 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,200 Management was when I got into it. 12 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,560 Like most people, Identity chose me, but I just happened into 13 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:58,840 this B to B space and there's a tremendously complex use case 14 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:05,080 and you know how we manage our B2B dealer and in my specific 15 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,960 case was dealerships, how we manage those relationships came 16 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,200 back very much to how we did it at that company. 17 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:17,320 And you know, in terms of where the space was at the time, for 18 00:01:17,320 --> 00:01:20,520 sure, there were no commercial solutions that solve that 19 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:22,880 problem. So we had to develop our own 20 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,720 application and I pretty much spent the next 20 years keeping 21 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:31,440 my finger on the pulse of that space and looking for solutions 22 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,240 that you know, hey, there has to be a commercial solution that 23 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,480 solves this complex B to B identity management case. 24 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,840 And I never found one. I mean I literally never found 25 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,160 one. And as you know, I do identity 26 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,320 advisory. I've been doing that for the 27 00:01:47,320 --> 00:01:51,400 past 12 years and this question comes up a lot from different 28 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,800 clients who have AB to B use case to solve. 29 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,800 They say who has this? I say no one, no one does this. 30 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,440 You have to pretty much write your own program. 31 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,160 Now you can, you can get a platform, you can get a lot of 32 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:04,960 tools that are going to save you time. 33 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,960 But at the end of the day, you're still developing your own 34 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,680 custom application. Now rewind or Fast forward to 35 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,400 about a year ago and then I became aware of the people that 36 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,640 were going to speak to you today and looked at their product and 37 00:02:19,640 --> 00:02:22,840 I was absolutely blown away. And I said to you, Jeff, you 38 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:27,360 have to see this and we have to get these gentlemen on the 39 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,600 podcast to talk about this a little bit. 40 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:33,280 And so I don't want to oversell it, but that's essentially the 41 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,960 genesis story of this episode. So I'm very excited. 42 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:39,640 I think I'm excited is an understatement. 43 00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:44,160 You have been straight up fanboy since this kind of came about. 44 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,320 I guess you know, for those not familiar, before we get kind of 45 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,200 things started, you know Jim's been going back and forth about 46 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,480 this thing for for a while now. So you know he has a little 47 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,520 spring extra spring in his stuff I think for this conversation. 48 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,480 But today's episode is a sponsor spotlight episode. 49 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,520 So that's one of the things that we do every from time to time 50 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,000 gives us an opportunity to talk with, you know, the movers and 51 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,840 shakers, really dive deep into products and that's what we're 52 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,520 going to do today. These are special episodes that 53 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,240 we actually create in collaboration with our sponsors 54 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,920 to make sure that we're able to really get to the details of 55 00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:18,760 things. So it's fully sponsored. 56 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,680 Just making that crystal clear. We're going to get right into 57 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,720 it. Today's sponsor is Tallis 1, 58 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,400 Welcome, Identity Platform. You can find them on the web at 59 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,480 Cpl. tallisgroup.com. That's Cpl. 60 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:38,040 Dot THAL esgroup.com For those not familiar with the, the 61 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,080 solution and the and the group that we're going to be talking 62 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:41,960 to today, The tallest one welcome. 63 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,640 Identity Platform offers a comprehensive solution for 64 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,640 managing digital identities, providing seamless and secure 65 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,760 access to applications and services across various devices 66 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,080 and platforms, ensuring a user friendly and protected digital 67 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,800 experience. Again, straight up fanboy Jim is 68 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,560 going to be very excited to have this conversation. 69 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,480 I am as well. We've got Marco Venuti, Director 70 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,560 of I am Business Acceleration for Tallis. 71 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,680 Welcome to the show, Marco. Thank you, Jeff, and great to be 72 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,480 here. Thank you so much. 73 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,800 Jason Keenehan, Director of I Am Product Management for Tallis, 74 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,280 Welcome to the show. Thanks for having us, Jeff. 75 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,040 Thanks for taking the time guys. You know we're we're, I'm 76 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,120 probably going to say the word fanboy a lot because Jim is 77 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,360 straight up fanboy right now. But before we get to that and 78 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,520 the and sort of the product and the and so the solutions that 79 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,840 you guys offer, let's talk a little bit about your identity 80 00:04:27,840 --> 00:04:29,120 backgrounds. I think that's one thing that a 81 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,280 lot of people like to understand just you know the the viewpoints 82 00:04:32,280 --> 00:04:35,360 that we're expressing here is what is that based on of right, 83 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,080 what's been our experience in the identity space marker, Let's 84 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,720 start with you. How did you get into the world 85 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:42,080 of identity and access management? 86 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,040 Yeah, well, it was, it wasn't deliberate decision. 87 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,240 I used to work for a consulting company actually US1 Cambridge 88 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,880 technology partner which acquired the startup I was 89 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,600 working at. So I was now working for AUS 90 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,600 company. The literally two months after 91 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,160 acquiring us was itself acquired by Novell. 92 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,720 OK, this was year 2001. For those of you old enough, 93 00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:08,240 they probably remember that brand NFL is still to these days 94 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,360 with different brands and player in the identity in the identity 95 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:12,760 space. So that's how my journey 96 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:14,760 started. So I had a few years there 97 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,400 delivering identity solutions, then selling identity solutions, 98 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,520 then cooperating with product management or identity solution 99 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,480 before leaving and transitioning to a governance startup, this 100 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:29,720 time Italian in case there is any doubt left around where they 101 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,520 do come from. OK, so we had a small company 102 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:39,160 that we built the governance solutions for three years before 103 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,120 again being acquired again, this time by IBM. 104 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,120 OK. And again, so is to say there's 105 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,880 a longer story, which brings me to 1 welcome later on. 106 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,480 Maybe too long to be fully, fully, fully fleshed out. 107 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,480 So I'm technically my third decade in the identity space. 108 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,520 That's not a way to say. That's that's a lot of 109 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:01,320 experience. We'll say. 110 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,520 That's a diplomatic way to say that you've been doing this for 111 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,280 a long time, Jason. How about your background? 112 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:08,680 How did you get into the identity space? 113 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,280 Yes, my my background's not quite as long as Marco's I think 114 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:16,160 at this point. I've been in the IM space for 115 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:22,960 about 12 years now. So the 1st 25 years of my career 116 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:28,920 I was actually working at IBM, doing more product engineering, 117 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,440 product architecture, working on mainframes actually. 118 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:40,840 And I had a career shift and in about you know 1213 years ago I 119 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:45,400 got into product management and I was working in the this is the 120 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,800 time of Service Oriented architecture, SOA and I was 121 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,240 working in IBM Web sphere product line there. 122 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:58,480 And then, you know, fate jumped in and I met two of the leaders 123 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:05,560 for IBMI AM business, Ravi Srinivasan and Sridhar Mupidi. 124 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:10,440 So Ravi is now like the CEO at Voltero and Sridhar's an IBM 125 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,520 fellow and they kind of brainwashed me and brought me 126 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,320 into the IAM space and asked me to be the product manager for 127 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,800 their active management portfolio there. 128 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,400 Then time just happened to go on and I ended up getting 129 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,760 experience with other parts of the IBM portfolio. 130 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:28,280 That's where I actually met Marco. 131 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:35,280 First was at IBM, I had a brief hiatus away from the IAM space 132 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,720 and then last year got brought back into it here at Palace. 133 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,520 So happy to be back into the the IAM discipline. 134 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,840 You thought you could get away, and identity has this habit of 135 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,960 pulling people back into it. Yeah, you can never actually get 136 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,280 away. Marco, for people who aren't 137 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,720 familiar with Talus and the One Welcome story, can you talk a 138 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,280 little bit about that and how it has evolved since Warm Welcome 139 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,720 has joined the Tallis group? Absolutely, absolutely, yes. 140 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:09,960 So Tallis acquired 1 Welcome back in May the 2022 and 1 141 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,120 Welcome has been there before though for 11 years before being 142 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:17,240 acquired, right. Actually one Welcome is itself a 143 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:22,280 combination of 2 Dutch based identity company, one Genie and 144 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,480 one and I Welcome that is being competing for a few years and 145 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,600 then merging up and becoming the fact that the largest identity 146 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:36,200 player in Europe, which was an early mover in many ways in the 147 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,640 science space, in the consent infused within the science 148 00:08:40,919 --> 00:08:44,320 space. And even in the B2B domain that 149 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,760 we're about to talk about today on both sides, there were 150 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:51,920 flavors, so to speak, of B2B solutions being created. 151 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,400 So when the acquisition came along, of course, there is a 152 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,200 very nice match because Stylus historically had a very solid 153 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,640 and very well known solutions in the authentication space. 154 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:06,200 But was to complete the picture, to expand the portfolio to have 155 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,800 a broader coverage of the identity spectrum with what I 156 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,320 welcome, one welcome provided, right. 157 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,240 So it was a very good match with literally 0 overlap. 158 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:22,240 And so it was July 2022, OK, since the acquisition happened 159 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:26,920 and which which means that we are basically now 1 1/2 year 160 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,240 into into the joint journey. For those not familiar with 161 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,560 Tallis, it's a very large organization, right? 162 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:35,600 It's it seems like at least maybe people in the US aren't as 163 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,800 familiar with Tallis, but very large in in Europe and Asia and 164 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:40,920 things like that I guess. Can you talk a little bit the 165 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,080 size of Tallis group? Oh yeah. 166 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,040 Talus is indeed a very large company that spans multiple 167 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:53,520 domains including aerospace, transportation, defense and one 168 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:57,040 of them is what we call DIS digital identity and security, 169 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:01,160 which is a very large part of the entire, the entire business. 170 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:07,920 We have presence in 80 countries roughly, OK. 171 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,200 And we are about 80,000 people overall. 172 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,440 Indeed we're having this conversation with you which you 173 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,480 are in the US and for historical reasons maybe the US is not the 174 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,400 country where we have strong brand awareness yet. 175 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,320 I would, I would add, OK, well in Europe, in Asia we have, 176 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,960 we're coming from different again standpoints in terms of 177 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,360 number of customers but most importantly awareness of where 178 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:39,880 the what does Brandy's OK, I'm talking security here to these 179 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,680 days Europe is slightly larger than US which is again just a 180 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:46,840 reflection of the recent acquisition, OK, probably going 181 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:51,320 to be reverted very, very soon. Yeah, and despite my fanboy 182 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:55,520 statuses, as Jeff pointed out, you know, the more I interact 183 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,040 with folks from Talos, the more accents you hear. 184 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:03,680 So you got Marco. He mentioned the Dutch, You 185 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:07,400 know, start for one, welcome. You know, obviously Talos's 186 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,000 heavy in France. I mean I've I've watched videos 187 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,800 where I hear German accents and I mean it's all over the board. 188 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,960 But we also have Jason clearly got the US accent right and I'm 189 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,880 just trying to set this up as an excuse. 190 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:27,080 Again, I've been telling people you need to code your own and I 191 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,240 came across this is how I found out about 1 Malcolm was. 192 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:35,280 I came across a Cooper or Cole report on CIAM and they talked 193 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,680 about this company. 1 welcome. And in my defense, I mean you 194 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:41,880 look at these reports and there are a lot of companies listed. 195 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,240 A lot of them are very regionally focused solutions. 196 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,120 And if it's not the region that you know you spend most of your 197 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,360 time in, maybe you gloss over. So you may have been there for 198 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,800 multiple years and I missed it, but going through that report, I 199 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,440 was like I'm going to do some further research and then the 200 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,160 more I dove in. So I guess the lesson learned is 201 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,760 when you see organizations sometimes listed in those, it 202 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:07,960 makes sense to do further research. 203 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:13,720 But certainly I'm glad I learned about this because I really feel 204 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:18,000 like this B to B space has been underserved. 205 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,560 I mean we hear about CIAM customer, I am and in a lot of 206 00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:26,440 the B to B scenarios, the business to business that that 207 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,600 second B is the customer to that organization, it's their 208 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,600 distribution network, it's their channel for how they get their 209 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,440 products to market. But B to B could be more. 210 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:43,120 And I also think that the term B to B can also have specific 211 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,440 connotations based on the vendors using it. 212 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,080 For example, you know Microsoft has AB to B platform. 213 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,520 That's not typically how I thought of B to B because of my 214 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,720 background. And like B to B was really about 215 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:01,600 channel. But before again not making this 216 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:06,880 podcast about me and my experience me, ask Marco, could 217 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:11,520 you just for the audience define B to BIM and explain how it's 218 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:17,400 different from B to C&B to E? Absolutely happy to do that. 219 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,040 It's indeed it. It requires a definition because 220 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,200 different people mean different thing. 221 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:28,760 Is a bit of an overloaded term. So for us, B2B means of course a 222 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,760 byproduct of the digital transformation. 223 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,600 So let's set the stage first in terms of context. 224 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,800 You have an organization. The organizations of course have 225 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:41,080 relationships with other organizations, which might be 226 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,720 customers, meaning B2B customers. 227 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,920 That's one type but in my will be that is a go to market 228 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,320 intermediary is a good example for instance is just thinking 229 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,920 for for a second around insurance is brokers, brokers 230 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,520 are independent company which are companies made of people, 231 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:01,240 OK. And they're not customers, they 232 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,440 are in the middle before reaching customers, right. 233 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,920 And so that's already second type of B to B organization. 234 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,600 So you are not B to B customers, B to B intermediaries, but you 235 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,680 can even stretch it on the opposite side, meaning the 236 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:16,080 procurement side, OK, or the of the flow. 237 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:21,080 You might have AB2B suppliers, you might, you usually have B2B 238 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:22,680 suppliers. They're never people, right? 239 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,520 They're always companies, but all those kind of constituents 240 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,880 now suppliers go to market intermediaries or customers vary 241 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,920 depending on the vertical. So for instance, I just 242 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,320 mentioned insurance company and in the middle you find brokers. 243 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,880 If you're talking of a manufacturing company that will 244 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,360 be distributors. For instance if you're talking 245 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,480 of a grocery company, you have that suppliers are the one that 246 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,520 produce food that is going to be sold in the in the grocery 247 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,840 store. So what I mean with that, it 248 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,760 changed the way you call them. It might be a supplier, it might 249 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,840 be a go to market intermediary, might be a customer, but they 250 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,720 all have in common that they are organization that with a high 251 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,960 degree of volatility they keep coming and going or at least you 252 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:10,080 need to factor in that you have some volatility and most 253 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:14,000 importantly the people in there keeps coming and going again. 254 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,680 So you have two degrees of volatility, the number of 255 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,520 companies and the people belonging to that company that 256 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,520 are defining the boundaries of the B2B domain that you need to 257 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,400 deal with from an identity standpoint. 258 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,160 It's so fascinating when you bring up those examples. 259 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:35,600 Those are real world examples of how identity fits into the 260 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,520 business. I know early in my career is 261 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:43,240 like I I craved wanting to be close to the business and an 262 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,320 important cog in what made the business work and understand how 263 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:52,920 the business work and being kind of security and IT focused. 264 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,040 It was I felt like it was hard to do until I found the space of 265 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,560 the B2B I AM because really what you're talking about is like 266 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,280 this is how we go to market. You're talking about a grocery 267 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,840 chain, You're talking about this is how we get product on the 268 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:07,120 shelves, right? Absolutely. 269 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:12,560 Indeed is is really part more and more of the way you operate 270 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,480 to run your business, right. You really depend and rely on 271 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,600 those third party. And the reason why we're having 272 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,960 this conversation is because more frequently now than before, 273 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,880 as an organization, you centrally operate some 274 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,400 applications which are instrumental for the way you 275 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,480 operate your business. And those applications need to 276 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,560 be delivered access to people which are not belonging to your 277 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,280 application but rather to another one. 278 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:40,440 OK. So this is in a way an extension 279 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,320 from the traditional B2, E approach where you had people 280 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,800 coming from the HR system and now being required to deliver 281 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,400 fine grain access to some applications. 282 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,040 You now have that typically in a larger number of people 283 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,560 belonging to a significant number of external organization 284 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,520 that you don't know, they come in with an identity which is not 285 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,200 as trusted as the one coming from the HR system. 286 00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:08,680 OK. So again, there are implications 287 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,200 in terms of onboarding implication in terms of access 288 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:16,480 granularity delivered, OK, which are specific of the B2B domain. 289 00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:20,680 Yeah, you know, I think the other thing is even like from AI 290 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:28,400 am a practitioner perspective, it's how do I build an ROI, how 291 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,120 do I build a business case for making investment in my IM 292 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:34,880 project. Well it's you increase revenue, 293 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:36,960 you decrease costs, you decrease risk. 294 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,440 So most security projects decrease risk. 295 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,560 A lot of times you can decrease cost by things like reducing 296 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,960 your password resets, doing more self-service. 297 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,400 Certainly everything we talked about reduces risk and you know 298 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,920 by doing better security tools and reduces cost. 299 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,800 But it also can be an increase in revenue. 300 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,440 It can be an enabler of new business and certainly customer 301 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,160 satisfaction. So what I found is like even in 302 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:10,320 times where maybe money isn't flowing and you can't just spin 303 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,200 off a bunch of expensive identity projects, B2B is still 304 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,080 an area that you know CEOs are willing to invest. 305 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,360 And and this is Jason. I wanted to to bring this to you 306 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:26,240 because you know, I, I feel like I just found out about 1 welcome 307 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:31,760 recently and to me this is like a solution is the totally 308 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,080 different than anything else I've seen in the market, right. 309 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,680 This is an area I study again. So there's got to be a lot of 310 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,120 folks who miss this boat. Now, if you're a company that's 311 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:45,840 doing business through B2B, if you're that grocery chain, if 312 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,840 you're that dealership, a company with a dealership 313 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:55,440 network or insurance company with brokers around the world or 314 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,240 around the country, what it however it works, you've already 315 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,560 built a solution, right? You're not, you're waiting for 316 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,240 something to come along so that you could conduct business, 317 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,240 right? So if you've done that, does 318 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,120 that mean that you don't need one welcome, Or you know how? 319 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,480 How should people look at it? But it's an interesting point 320 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,760 today as you pointed out when we talk about some of the B2B 321 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,960 models that exist especially with kind of that intermediary, 322 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,440 those business models have existed for decades, right. 323 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,160 So yeah, they they already have a solution in place because they 324 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,680 needed to build something in order to you know run, run their 325 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,120 business. But with anything that you do 326 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:39,200 that become that may maybe starts from a roll your own type 327 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,960 of solution that always comes with certain kinds of 328 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,960 constraints that are associated with it. 329 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,120 There's there's ongoing maintenance cost. 330 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:51,920 Usually it becomes more difficult to update and adjust 331 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,760 as your business priorities change or you need to adapt to 332 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,320 new use cases. Not that it's impossible, but it 333 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,880 it it comes with, you know, significant levels of 334 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,200 investment. And I think just kind of in the 335 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,720 age that we're in now, you know as much as possible 336 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,440 organizations want, want to use off the shelf tools where they 337 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,800 can, right. It just it helps drive your 338 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,200 focus on your business's core competency. 339 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,760 And allowing others to specialize where they specialize 340 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,680 and you can, you can take advantage of that. 341 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:26,480 So that's kind of the mentality that we actually take to on the 342 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,960 one welcome side is listen, you've probably got some 343 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,400 solutions that are already in place as a part of your identity 344 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,400 and access management without how you're looking to, you know, 345 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,720 manage users in your partner organizations. 346 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,040 So OK, keep keep those in plate if they're working well with you 347 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,880 and you know where where we can come in and maybe augment and 348 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,400 add some additional capabilities to sit alongside those 349 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,840 solutions. That's what that's what we're 350 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,840 looking to do as well. Basically you know kind of 351 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:03,120 looking at the overall B2B landscape, it's a multi faceted 352 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,960 problem that we're trying to solve. 353 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,480 But you know we look to see from the the Italicide, you know how 354 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,560 can we augment where you might already have solutions and 355 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,840 adjust pain point that you're not able to address today. 356 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,840 You know one of those that we see most often is around the 357 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:26,200 delegated user management part of the B2B problem where we 358 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,960 haven't seen you know a lot of good kind of off the shelf 359 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,200 solution for that. And you know, that's an area 360 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,400 that we think we can definitely bring additional value in 361 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,000 ourselves as well. Yeah, that delegated management 362 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,760 use cases you need to me that's the one that sticks out with a 363 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,080 blinking light and you know you you can't ignore it when it 364 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,120 comes to B. To B, it's for the most part 365 00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:50,920 everything else is. I think maybe the small gap, but 366 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,680 it's that delegated administration. 367 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,960 It's such a critical use case because it's foundational to how 368 00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:01,200 B to B works, especially the larger when you have larger 369 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,440 organizations on the other end of that B to B transaction. 370 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,600 But you know, I think everybody starts their journey. 371 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,080 No one just says we're going to build, right. 372 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,960 They do their build versus buy analysis or they start out with 373 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,880 we just want to buy something and the go to I think has been 374 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,800 all right, This is people kind of get B to E&B to C, right. 375 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,840 They're different. And I think people generally 376 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,040 start down the B to C route, right, because they think B to 377 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,360 B. Those people are outside of my 378 00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:34,880 company. So they're kind of like 379 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,360 customers. This customer I am, let me look 380 00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:41,480 at, you know, the authors of the world, the the forge rocks of 381 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,360 the world. What's different about what you 382 00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:50,240 do than than those solutions? That's a very good question 383 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,520 because indeed you, you you already touched on that, right? 384 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,480 So B2B is slightly different and you can approach that coming 385 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,520 from the B2 E angle or the Siam angle. 386 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,400 The the to me or to us, the answer is that actually is a 387 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,320 combination of the two It cut across and as commonality with 388 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,440 those two domains, Let me be a bit more specific. 389 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,200 We assisted 2 customers which were now coming to us because 390 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:17,840 they tried to approach the B to B problem assuming that as they 391 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,160 already were running a governance solution, so they 392 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,440 already had what they needed to manage the delegation process 393 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:29,000 for those external users. Well, it was the case though, it 394 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,920 was completely lacking the onboarding part. 395 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:36,320 So they found out the odd way that it was not enough. 396 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,040 OK, they need something more and it was the other way around. 397 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,160 Customers running already a science solution. 398 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,880 So while we're good for the onboarding we can manage, we can 399 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,240 build a user journey to onboard with the right level of 400 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:53,000 assurance of users which are now belonging to our employees 401 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,680 ecosystem. They are externals and then we 402 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,400 need to manage them. Wow. 403 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,480 But now that means that we are managing that ourselves rather 404 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,680 than being able to offload that burden on them on that 405 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,680 organization one at a time, right, Delegating. 406 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,200 So on both sides you miss something. 407 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,320 OK. So it feels like the taxonomy 408 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,720 that we are operating under in terms of identity industry since 409 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,160 20 years now, OK, is built around pillars, the governance 410 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,480 pillar, the access pillars, now splitting the Siam. 411 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,200 OK. Well, B to B is kind of cutting 412 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,320 across. It requires a flavor of multiple 413 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:35,440 of those and that's why we are talking B to B here. 414 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,880 But in a way it's a combination so to speak. 415 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,040 Allow me of governance capability, light governance 416 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,240 capability for what we call delegation management, that's 417 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,920 where it's closer to, OK, very, very light, but still closer to 418 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,680 governance than to Axis, OK. And you still need onboarding, 419 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:58,720 so you need the two of them to do the job and hardly ever you 420 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,240 find them combining single integrated solutions. 421 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:06,400 So back to your point, to reduce the need for integrations to 422 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,800 renew the need for custom development, there are not that 423 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,440 many products around which are already designed for this sort 424 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,800 of use cases which are uniquely featuring that combination of 425 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,480 capabilities. Yeah, I want to go back to this 426 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,160 delegated administration because like I said, it's the the 427 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:30,000 blinking red bulb of B2B and want to understand how you 428 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,160 approach it. But at first I went throughout 429 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,880 an example. So this is a client that I 430 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:41,000 recently worked with who had AB2B scenario where they were 431 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,920 doing business with a large grocery chain in fact, and to do 432 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:50,200 the delegated administration, they created an organization for 433 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:55,040 each grocery store, right? And then if they had people who 434 00:25:55,040 --> 00:26:02,160 spanned that organization, they manually added that person to 435 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,480 have entitlements over that specific organization. 436 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,520 So there was no hierarchy, as I guess what I'm saying. 437 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,200 And there's no dynamism to it, right? 438 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,960 If that person left, they'd have to be removed from each one of 439 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,360 those organizations. The new person would have to be 440 00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:23,400 added in their place. That's not how you guys would 441 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:24,880 have handled that problem, right? 442 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:29,840 So, So Marco, do you want to kind of get into contrasting, 443 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:34,280 you know, take that scenario and kind of go at it, if you would? 444 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:36,480 Absolutely, with pleasure indeed. 445 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,760 It is at risk to become a bit too technical, but let me just 446 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,120 make sorry, it's not going to be a technical in the end, no, but 447 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,880 thanks for the example is indeed very close to what we really 448 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:55,000 assist in terms of average case. Meaning you always have the need 449 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,720 to split the ownership, the authority, so to speak, the 450 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,120 scope of visibility of those delegated manager. 451 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:05,400 That's one of the foundational need of B2B. 452 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,560 You need to allow somebody which is not in your companies in 453 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,840 another company to be entitled to manage by himself the 454 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,520 onboarding and the access delivered to people belonging to 455 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:20,480 his own company. Though the company is not big 456 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,280 bucket, single unqualified can be itself structured. 457 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,760 So that's where the notion of hierarchy my kick in. 458 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:32,680 So you need delegates and sub delegates which are splitting 459 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:37,320 the task OK among them still belonging only to that specific 460 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,760 master company. Or maybe it's more complex, you 461 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,560 have a combination of different business dimensions, so to 462 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,040 speak. One is the organizational 463 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,240 dimension, another could be a geographical dimension. 464 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,560 So you might need to have a delegate which can manage people 465 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,840 as soon as they belong to that company and are in Europe. 466 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,400 And I'm just making a simple example, Your reality tend to be 467 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:04,800 more complex than that. That's why what defines a proper 468 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,080 B2B friendly capability in a product is also the ability to 469 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,360 win a point and click fashion model those different dimension 470 00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:16,400 to slice and dice the responsibility across different 471 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,200 people. But doing that without creating 472 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,040 a separate tenant for each organization, without even 473 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:23,880 involving the AT to make it happen. 474 00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:27,760 If a new company, if a new B2B entity joins tomorrow, I don't 475 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,080 want to involve the ATI, want a business user to be the one 476 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,440 onboarding that organization. That's the key thing. 477 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,080 Who is the persona that you involve, not just to be deliver 478 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,560 access, but to maintain the life cycle, the coming and going, not 479 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,720 just of the people but also of the organization, the B2B 480 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:51,280 organization in the first place? Yeah, I think what I wanted to 481 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,320 make this one point and this might sound minor to people, but 482 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,880 it's kind of a big deal because they, I think when folks look at 483 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:05,360 solutions, sometimes they say oh you call you know, our 484 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,960 customers, organizations, right. And we don't use that term 485 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,840 around here. Reject. 486 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,920 In other words, your product can't do what we want because 487 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,480 you call things things differently than we call them. 488 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,520 And I'm not saying that's right, but it is how the human mind 489 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,920 seems to work. One of the things that I noticed 490 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:30,000 in seeing a demo of the product was that you can even change 491 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,600 field labels. You don't have to use the 492 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,640 out-of-the-box terminology for things like organizations or 493 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,760 really very many of the fields at all. 494 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:42,920 You can call them what you want to call them. 495 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,920 And I think part of that also is that you know you've got some 496 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,000 language capabilities within the product. 497 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,240 So I did want to point that out. Feel free to comment on that. 498 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:57,000 But I also wanted to kind of transition into a discussion 499 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:03,200 around self-service and what are the kind of some of the keys 500 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,160 self-service capabilities in the platform and how you go about 501 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:12,800 addressing those? Yeah, well, that's indeed a very 502 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,600 important feature. I just mentioned that to be 503 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,320 addressing the right persona for the job is fundamental in B2B, 504 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,560 in traditional solutions. And I'm back to the analogy with 505 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,800 light IGA or IGA, right? All you can translate is the 506 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,880 name of roles you deliver for people. 507 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,320 That's the ocean and ocean and the language. 508 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,640 Sorry, the localizations. But as you mentioned, people 509 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,000 tends to refer to those metaphors in different ways. 510 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,360 So maybe we don't call them roles, we call them 511 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,200 entitlements. Or maybe that's not a group in 512 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:42,880 our language, that's the structure. 513 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,160 And and you, you cannot come up with a dictionary which pleases 514 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,560 everybody. There is no such a thing. 515 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,000 OK. So the only answer to that is to 516 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,200 allow people to pick their name they like better. 517 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,480 And again, how do you make that translation happen? 518 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,960 It's something that you need an IT guide to translate that. 519 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,800 You need this service engagement to reflect the language and to 520 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,840 absorb that. It's also itself something that 521 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,680 need to be managed by a non-technical individual. 522 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,040 I'm repeating myself in a way, but I think that the key to 523 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,440 finding elements of the philosophy behind the solution 524 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:25,480 we built is to not just reach feasibility, but of what we need 525 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,480 to properly address B2B, but to have that feasibility be 526 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,440 exploited be used to be leveraged by business people 527 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,120 with no technical skills. This is the way by which you can 528 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,440 refrain to even when you delegate somebody in a broker. 529 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,560 In an insurance example for instance that I gave, are you 530 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:48,480 expecting that individual to be technical to manage their 531 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,880 employees or to change the way the hierarchy, the structure of 532 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,480 people, whether the organization in this broker is managed. 533 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:56,960 It shouldn't be technical, right? 534 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,880 It's a broker, it's coming from broker company. 535 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,680 I mean that the level of skills is required to to feature. 536 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,840 It should be adequate OK for for the scenario. 537 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,120 Yeah, now what about the the self-service capabilities? 538 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,520 I mean, I think a big part of having delegated administration 539 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,240 that works is not throwing all all everything back on the 540 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,080 delegated admin who may have just an arm's length 541 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,680 relationship with the end user, right? 542 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,680 So people need to be able to manage their own profile, things 543 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,400 like that. How extensively can an 544 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:39,360 organization use Thomas Warm Welcome to extend self-service? 545 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,000 Yeah, it's. It's indeed also a very 546 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,480 frequently required case. You have people on boarding 547 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,760 himself, if you are on boarding somebody that somebody want to 548 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,520 be owning. Is own identity attribute is a, 549 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,400 is a defining tracks, right? So you can change the picture, 550 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,240 can change different attributes depending on the implementation. 551 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:01,920 Which extra attribute defines you? 552 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,040 And you also maybe need to request for discretionary 553 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,240 access? Maybe you're given access 554 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,160 automatically out of your attribute sets. 555 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,400 So actually based authorization applies here of course, but 556 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,520 maybe there are a few of them which are depending that cannot 557 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,800 be automated, right? So that's another notion of 558 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,520 self-service. You are allowed to request if 559 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:30,040 that the configuration that our customer requires to you're 560 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,600 allowed to request and then to follow an approval process 561 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,960 before being delivered a given access. 562 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,680 OK. So self-service applies in 563 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,680 attributes and access equally. OK. 564 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,360 In which flavors in which your level of granularity of course 565 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,880 varies depending on the specific customer needs, but it's 566 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,960 consistently pretty much all the time among the requirements that 567 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,400 we are tasked to task to fulfill? 568 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,800 Jeff, if you don't mind, I'm going to keep going. 569 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,040 I'm just, you called me out. Fanboy, right? 570 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,960 But I'm excited. About the Roll with it, baby. 571 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,480 Roll with it. All right. 572 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,080 I'm going to switch over to Jason because Jason we've been 573 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:12,719 talking a ton about B to B, you know identity management, the 574 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,920 delegate administration, things like that. 575 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,719 Does the toss one welcome IM solution just cover that or are 576 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,679 there other capabilities that you know or other products or 577 00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:29,719 solutions that Talos makes available that how does this all 578 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,520 fit in beyond just the identity? Yeah. 579 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:38,159 So the the one welcome identity platform Jim is but I refer to 580 00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:41,120 it more as kind of like a comprehensive access management 581 00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:46,000 platform as Marco mentioned the you know the heritage that you 582 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:51,520 really have been in the CI AM space, you know CI AM covering, 583 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,520 you know all types of different external users in this case. 584 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,000 So the the delegated user management or the identity 585 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,840 management is definitely one key component. 586 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:06,480 But other things that you would expect in the platform doing you 587 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,200 know single sign on session management kind of traditional 588 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,600 access management capabilities are are definitely all there 589 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,240 too. All different forms of 590 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:22,520 authentication, multi factor authentication as well as 591 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,520 authorization at different levels. 592 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,400 And especially in the B2B context that we've been talking 593 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,200 about here, authorization becomes kind of a a key 594 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,320 component of the the overall solution. 595 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,680 And it's and it's not just about defining or governing the 596 00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:45,800 authorization policies, but being able to have kind of that 597 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:52,640 dynamic contextually aware decision engine as well that can 598 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,840 integrate with multiple different, you know, policy 599 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,600 enforcement points to to ensure that those authorization 600 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,480 decisions are are carried out. I've got to imagine that you've 601 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,200 run into all kinds of scenarios where somebody's more or less, 602 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,000 we'll call it Greenfield. In other words, everything so 603 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,560 legacy that they want to replace the whole stack. 604 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,240 Then you probably have scenarios where somebody went out and 605 00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:19,880 bought, you know, like a Ford Rock or an off 0. 606 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:26,760 You know, we should say Octo or a ping to do the authentication 607 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,800 side of the house and maybe need the identity. 608 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,960 Or they build a custom app that they're really happy with and 609 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,800 now want to do, you know, a strong authentication with an 610 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,560 identity verification solution. So is is the platform? 611 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,560 Is the solution kind of flexible that you can do parts and 612 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,280 pieces? Or is it all or nothing? 613 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,840 No, absolutely. It's it's flexible because I 614 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:52,320 think as you said, I mean we run into you know customers and and 615 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,160 prospects and and all different kinds of scenarios. 616 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,960 You know some that are looking to as we talked about earlier 617 00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:03,840 augment what they what they have to solve kind of a very specific 618 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:09,680 slice of the problem. Others that are you know maybe 619 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,880 looking to to fully replace and that's fine too. 620 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,320 But then there's others that are more Greenfield, which you know, 621 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,400 we haven't talked a lot about here, but you know Marco 622 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:24,120 mentioned earlier on around kind of that overloaded buzzwordship 623 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,360 digital transformation kind of driving some of the B2 BI mean. 624 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,080 So as as more businesses are you know kind of digitizing their 625 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:37,880 operations, we do see some that are venturing into areas that 626 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,880 you know of, you know new ways that they want to do business 627 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:46,000 and engage with other organizations, what I refer to 628 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,880 as like these collaborative networks. 629 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:54,840 And in doing so they are looking for you know a solution from 630 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,520 scratch or or or in in totality right. 631 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:02,920 And then in that case you know we we try to help them not just 632 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,680 with kind of the piece meal parts or the the individual 633 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,640 modules but bringing together the the entire solution as well. 634 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,680 Yeah, one thing with this episode, you know, in looking at 635 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,960 the one welcome tallest solution or tallest one welcome solution, 636 00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:21,680 I I felt like there's just so much there that I was afraid of 637 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,320 like, hey, let's talk about these ten different things and 638 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,560 spend 5 minutes talking about each one, including B to B, 639 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,080 right. So we're focusing on B to B. 640 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,160 But I also wanted to mention like this, this piece I saw was 641 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,960 called It's Me and it was like identity verification and then 642 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:43,080 the fact that you're a company with roots in Europe, European 643 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:47,600 Union, there's just such a heavy privacy focus as well. 644 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:52,000 So I think if you know, I got to think that you know either from 645 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,520 an industry perspective or somewhere somehow your company 646 00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:01,800 footprint is geographically, you know, where things like identity 647 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,800 verification, things like privacy really jump out. 648 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,760 I mean, do any examples come to mind for you of that? 649 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:13,280 Yeah, absolutely. So I mean the concept of privacy 650 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:20,240 is I think it's just in in our DNA as as we've said, you know 651 00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:23,680 one welcome comes from the heritage in Europe and you know, 652 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:28,200 very much focused on supporting complex privacy regulations like 653 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:34,000 GDPR, right. But beyond that as well Palace 654 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:39,840 as a whole was very much focused on you know emerging things in 655 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:44,200 the identity space like self sovereign identity as well. 656 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,880 So you mentioned you know like it's me which is you know one of 657 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:54,880 the the European identity, the Eids that that that exist in in 658 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,400 in Europe each one of the different countries have kind of 659 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,760 their own national electronic IDs and so you know that being 660 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,240 able to consume those so that citizens. 661 00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:09,760 Or or users can bring their own identity with them. 662 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,440 That's the core part of the of the platform as well. 663 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:19,360 And you know Talus I think of the whole embraces that you know 664 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:24,960 other parts of our business inside the digital identity and 665 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,120 security business line that we have focused on things like 666 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,000 digital wallets and mobile driver's license. 667 00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:36,440 We actually are the supplier for for those for a couple of the 668 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,440 states in the US here as well for the the mobile driver's 669 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,520 licenses that they have And identity is just kind of at the 670 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:48,240 core of everything that we do when it's foundational. 671 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,160 And so you know protecting the privacy in that in that sense 672 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,440 it's been very important. And when we look at the One 673 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,040 welcome identity platform, I think there are some kind of key 674 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,080 features that we focus on as well to support this for 675 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:06,360 organization. The consent management is an 676 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,080 absolutely critical piece. So whether that's at the 677 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:14,640 document or the attribute level, so you know, making it easy for 678 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,160 either administrators or data privacy officers to be able to 679 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,560 manage the life cycle around different types of consent to be 680 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,840 able to keep up with regulation. But then also to the point that 681 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,960 Jimmy were talking about with self-service, it's about making 682 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:35,400 it easy for end users to to be able to see what consent they've 683 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:40,120 given and actually manage those, maybe remove those as well as, 684 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,000 you know, their preferences change or evolve. 685 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:50,560 And then another key part around privacy is around the focus on 686 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:55,000 data security and encryption. Those that are familiar with 687 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,560 Talus in the cybersecurity place in the cybersecurity space. 688 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,360 This is where Talus has made its name. 689 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,400 A lot is on the data security side. 690 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:10,200 So we're very well known for our HFS and key management solutions 691 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,560 as an example. And so we've actually built that 692 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,720 heritage into the one welcome identity platform as well 693 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:21,600 allowing even though what we deliver is a public cloud fast 694 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,960 solution like a multi tenanted solution. 695 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,440 You know we give different options for people that want 696 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,200 different levels of control as well. 697 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,880 So maybe you want a dedicated instance in the public cloud 698 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:36,360 environment, so we can do that. Or we can support use cases like 699 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,480 bring your own key and hold your own key again, that give those 700 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:45,760 organizations more control as well over their data and who 701 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,440 might potentially have access to it. 702 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:53,720 That's fascinating stuff. What I also wanted to kind of 703 00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:56,680 transition into in terms of the discussion. 704 00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,720 So I think you guys get lumped into CIAM. 705 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,200 So here's the thing I think is like when I look at most CIAM 706 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,920 solutions, they say here's the stack. 707 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,920 You bring over your users and you populate our directory with 708 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,520 your users. We don't care how it gets there 709 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,320 right now. So that's the whole B to B part, 710 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,640 but there's not analyst reports on B2B. 711 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:28,560 So where do you put one welcome, you put them into the CIACI AM 712 00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:33,920 function. So given that distinction, when 713 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,720 we talk about the analyst reports, and I'll bounce this 714 00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:43,000 one to Marco, where do you, where do you end up positioned 715 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,840 in the analyst reports and what do you think factors into that 716 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:48,920 positioning beyond kind of the things I said? 717 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,880 Yeah, well, in this right, there's no B2B report, right, 718 00:43:54,880 --> 00:44:02,000 not specific though we we're happy to report that the latest 719 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,040 Garner Magic Quadrant was calling out already from the 720 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:10,440 abstract in the front page the B2B relevance as an increasing 721 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:15,640 aspects that Access management need to be qualified against, 722 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,160 qualified with, right. So actually, this is an 723 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,920 interesting and interesting and very, very happy finding from 724 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,600 our side. So that is now I would say, 725 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,600 finally, OK, gaining recognition in terms of relative relevance. 726 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,200 Why I'm saying finally, because we have been in the space for 727 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,880 five, 5 1/2 years now since we started rebuilding our B2B 728 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:44,000 solutions, but a bit struggling in even having a unified way to 729 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:45,480 call it. Now we call it B2. 730 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,040 BAM, we're already doing that today, right. 731 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,360 But if you check what happened up until a few years ago, it was 732 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,760 partner AAM, guest user management, there was all sort 733 00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:00,200 of naming to reference what we now call better BWAM. 734 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:06,280 So back to your questions, we are indeed consistently present 735 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:10,760 in the major analyst reports talking of the Garner one which 736 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,680 is the magic quantum for access management, the site we are in 737 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:20,640 the in the visionary space also because it's a reflection of 738 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,160 what we just said, right, that we came in along with the 739 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,560 acquisition of 1 Welcome, a European based company. 740 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:32,200 So we are literally on the right side in terms of vision, but 741 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,600 still being primarily European in terms of heritage, not in the 742 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,720 leaders quadrant for the ability to execute which is what we look 743 00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:41,800 forward to enter with the next edition. 744 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,680 OK. Out of the execution which we 745 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,760 are already assisting, assisting and again coming from Europe, of 746 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,080 course we have an historical presence in the Kufinger coal 747 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,440 leadership campus which publishes the access management 748 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,280 of the Siam. We are proud of leader, market 749 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,240 leader, visionary leader depending on which one on you 750 00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:02,800 pick. But we have definitely we are 751 00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:07,040 definitely as you mentioned present there along with other 752 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:12,120 vendors which maybe are historically not so visible in 753 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:16,480 the US OK. So we are maybe more than most, 754 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:21,680 most of them even more now, so because of the of the Talis of 755 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,240 the Talis acquisition. So, all right, I'm going to 756 00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:27,800 throw you a curveball marker. Not because I want to try to 757 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:33,840 stump you, but because what Jason was talking about with the 758 00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:38,600 authentication and I thought back to my experience with B2B 759 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:43,240 identity and authentication, one of the most important parts was, 760 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,800 OK, here's the scenario, I am an employee of that second B. 761 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:53,320 So one of the customers or one of the suppliers, now you know 762 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:58,040 the the organization, the main organization, the first B has a 763 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:03,400 contract with their customers or suppliers, right, Maybe they 764 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,320 have contract codes and things like that. 765 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:09,960 They don't have a contract with necessarily those agents of of 766 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,240 that second B, the people that work there. 767 00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:18,440 But the second be those people are the ones that log in. 768 00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:23,680 So they need to bring with them attributes of the organization 769 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,120 that they work for. Some other words like what I 770 00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:31,000 would call inheriting attributes of that object or you know, 771 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,040 gaining entitlements because of belonging to this organ. 772 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:38,280 See, to me, this is one of the most complex things, and it gets 773 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,800 that delegated administration. But it's not about 774 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,400 administration, it's about authorization, right? 775 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,360 So is this something? Am I just babbling or does this 776 00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,600 make sense to you? This is something you see. 777 00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,920 This is something we definitely see, and again is a perfect 778 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,960 example of spanning multiple traditionally siloed domain, 779 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,040 right? So to answer this kind of 780 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,240 scenario would involve a part of a Federation story. 781 00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:07,000 We federate with your ADP of the second B and we carry along as 782 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,680 part of the way you get in some attributes of your identity 783 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,320 record. Which one? 784 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,040 The one that we need to identify you or maybe also some of them? 785 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,880 Some of those that we need to authorize you the right way? 786 00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:23,080 Because there is an attribute based authorization automations 787 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:28,080 of what you now need to be get delivered with OK, which can be 788 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,000 automatically computed out of where you belong in terms of 789 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,520 geographical placement, organizational placement or 790 00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:40,320 other attributes, right? Or maybe it's more complex than 791 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,880 that, it's contextual. So it's partially due to what 792 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,240 you are out of your identity record. 793 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:52,600 OK, but maybe also out of what how you relate to other people 794 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:57,120 or to other entities. We have cases where I'm allowed 795 00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:01,960 to operate as a delegate on another user only if we were 796 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,160 jointly working on the same contract before. 797 00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:08,280 What was the contract? The contract is not an identity, 798 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,840 yet another entity that has nothing to do with people, 799 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:13,800 right? So we are now entering the 800 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:17,560 domain of managing fine grain authorizations out of 801 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:22,200 relationships between entities which are beyond the the 802 00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:25,040 identity realm right? Are entering the business object 803 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:29,000 model of what the business operates under, right? 804 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:33,440 So I think that might be a bit of a complex answer, but that's 805 00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,120 why you trigger me. Sorry, this was your fault. 806 00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,680 It's not OK. It's perfect. 807 00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:38,960 It's kind of what I was looking for. 808 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,840 But I the reason it was a curveball, I think Mosley was 809 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,280 because of the placement of it within the show. 810 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,320 But it just kind of struck me. I mean, as we're having this 811 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:53,080 episode of having flashbacks, good flashbacks, we are running 812 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,960 a little long. So I wanted to kind of bounce it 813 00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:01,400 to Jason to talk about, you know, where are things heading? 814 00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:05,360 You know, where is this one welcome platform? 815 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,720 What are the future opportunities for growth in the 816 00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:11,360 identity space for for Talisman Malcolm? 817 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,480 Yeah, Jim, I think you know the the the B to B phase is an 818 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:17,920 obvious one. That's what we've been talking 819 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:24,160 about today mostly. So you know we see that as kind 820 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,960 of a Nathan market opportunity or a Nathan industry and you 821 00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,360 know we kind of we want to be at the forefront of that and and 822 00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:36,960 help shape what the industry sees as a whole as kind of the 823 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:41,280 the right way to do B2B. I AM and we don't want to do 824 00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,720 that in isolation obviously we want to, we want to partner with 825 00:50:43,720 --> 00:50:48,200 other vendors and clients in the in the industry to help help 826 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,880 evolve that. So that's that's an obvious 827 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,080 focus area. But in general we've talked 828 00:50:54,080 --> 00:51:00,680 about Tallis and our heritage being in you know not just in 829 00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,640 the fiber security space but in other highly regulated 830 00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,920 industries. And so towards that end, you 831 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:11,920 know we have a particular focus in the BFFI segment, so banking, 832 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:17,640 financial services, insurance, which fits very nicely into a 833 00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,840 lot of the capabilities I think that we offer both for the, you 834 00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,600 know the identity management side, but also the security 835 00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:32,800 aspects as well. And then another focus area for 836 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:39,000 us is kind of the continued evolution of authentication and 837 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,600 password list in the industry. I know Jim and Jeff you spoke to 838 00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,880 one of our colleagues, Pedro Martinez back at the 839 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:50,360 Authenticate Conference in October episode 242, if I'm not 840 00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:52,880 mistaken a little plug there for you. 841 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:58,960 And you know Pedro is one of our subject matter experts in the 842 00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,720 area of password list and pass keys. 843 00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,960 And again, we think that this is going to reshape the the 844 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,880 industry around authentication, making it not only easier but 845 00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,360 more secure. So again that's that's an area 846 00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,440 that we're going to kind of continue to invest in as well. 847 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:22,120 And then the last thing that I would just say is Talos made 848 00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:28,280 another acquisition at the end of last year of Imperva who you 849 00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,200 guys might be familiar with like in a data security and 850 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,640 application security space. So we see a lot of synergy 851 00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:39,080 possible between the identity space, the data security space, 852 00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,480 the application security space. So you know, we're spending a 853 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,520 lot of research and investment dollars there as well on how do 854 00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,440 we, how do we address new and emerging use cases by bringing 855 00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:53,000 identity and data and application security closer 856 00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,000 together. So it seems like Thomas is 857 00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,760 really kind of developing one welcome as this force to be 858 00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,600 reckoned with in the industry and I appreciate the plug. 859 00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:03,640 Thank you very much for for plugging Pedro show. 860 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:06,480 So well done professional podcaster Jason. 861 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:09,120 I don't listen to this conversation. 862 00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:13,160 I didn't want to interrupt fanboy Jim really geeking out 863 00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:15,520 about this stuff because he has so much experience in the space. 864 00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,240 But it got me thinking that, you know, a lot of this sounds 865 00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:23,680 difficult to do and do it right. And I guess I want to close the 866 00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,480 conversation out on what does it actually take to implement 867 00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,440 something like this. So if I'm going to deploy 1 868 00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:35,000 welcome for my use cases, I guess what does a typical 869 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:36,720 implementation look like? And I know that's a loaded 870 00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:39,960 question because the consulting answer is it depends. 871 00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,440 But you know what? I guess, kind of briefly walk me 872 00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,600 through the process. What does it take to set up, 873 00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:49,200 What does it take from a resource perspective? 874 00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,160 You know, if I'm a customer, what should I be bringing to the 875 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,760 table for like roles? Is it all technical people are 876 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,520 there business analyst, business representation? 877 00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:02,920 Do we get the actual B to B people involved as part of this? 878 00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,440 Help me kind of understand what it takes to deploy something 879 00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:06,840 like this. And maybe Marco, then, maybe 880 00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:08,920 that's a question for you. Yeah, happy to. 881 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,120 Happy to address that. Of course I can answer along the 882 00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:14,120 line of what is the approach that our partner system 883 00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:18,880 integrators are following the the methodology they usually 884 00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,080 follow basically split the task into two parallel threads. 885 00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,240 There is an onboarding orchestration thread. 886 00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:28,480 So how do we get the people in, what is the user journal like 887 00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:31,520 what form of authentication, is there any verification involved, 888 00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,040 is there any, is there any look up in some back end system to 889 00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:36,960 make sure that you are really you OK. 890 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:42,560 So that is more on the science side so to speak. 891 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,760 OK. In terms of task, in parallel to 892 00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,760 that there is another work thread potentially and very 893 00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,880 often led by different people, which is around how do we model 894 00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,680 the split of who can manage and should be managing whom. 895 00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:00,720 So what is the delegation model? So how do we segment out of the 896 00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:05,040 identity record the scope of responsibility, OK of different 897 00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,920 companies, different product line, different Geo. 898 00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,240 What belongs to the segmentation which is now the technical 899 00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:13,600 conversation is more of a business process and business 900 00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:19,360 model type and also along the same in the same thread what 901 00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,520 kind of persona are we looking at? 902 00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:25,760 Do we have a delegated manager, do we have a partner manager. 903 00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:29,080 So somebody who's also really job is to on board partner but 904 00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,640 not people. I mean these are the two parts. 905 00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:37,480 So there is an on boarding thread in a delegation 906 00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,040 management thread. Those are the two things usually 907 00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:45,640 in parallel. Very often the phased approach 908 00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,480 misused at least to reach a first release which is meant to 909 00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:53,480 show the value and to tune later on that what need to be 910 00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,520 adjusted. This first phase is what we call 911 00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,520 a minimal lovable product. Minimal lovable approaches in 912 00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:04,520 the three months range usually. So Jim, got to throw a curve on 913 00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:05,520 that. Throw one more. 914 00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:08,920 I'm listening to this. I'm an IM practitioner not to 915 00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:13,720 listen to those podcasts. What is the hardest thing about 916 00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,840 this sort of deployment and what are things that I should be 917 00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,520 thinking about as someone in the IM world out in the business? 918 00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:23,000 You know, whatever it may be practitioner to say, OK, I'm 919 00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:27,000 this sounds really interesting. I need to plan around this thing 920 00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:30,040 because it tends to be the hardest part of an 921 00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:31,960 implementation. Can you get my for any guidance 922 00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:38,200 on that? The hardest part, I mean, so for 923 00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,720 us usually the hardest part is to get identified as a provider 924 00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:44,680 of that solution that actually exists as a market solution and 925 00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:46,480 they don't need to reveal that from scratch. 926 00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:50,120 So the hardest part for us is actually to be called in rather 927 00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:53,640 than to deliver the thing. OK, maybe I'm not dodging the 928 00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:55,360 question. I'm just literally commenting on 929 00:56:55,360 --> 00:57:00,840 what is the hardest part for us so far going into once we're in. 930 00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,040 So now we got selected say right and what is the hardest part? 931 00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:11,040 The hardest part is usually to well you you in a way I do 932 00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:17,600 revise A resemblance with IGA, OK, is to understand and to help 933 00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,680 our customers in structuring, OK. 934 00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:24,240 The the segmentation of who can do what? 935 00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:31,120 OK, in a unified format, OK, because not necessarily that was 936 00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,040 thought through before and there was no need for it, OK. 937 00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:36,280 The fact that you had an help desk, it means that that logic 938 00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:38,040 was in the brain of the L desk people. 939 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,320 It was not built in the solution that now can handle that. 940 00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:46,560 So you need to transpose that logic from what is the business 941 00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,080 as usual approach of delegation management onto a tool which is 942 00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,600 allowing you to do that. But now that you have a tool, 943 00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,560 you need to understand the metaphors and the configuration 944 00:57:56,560 --> 00:58:00,240 option offered by the tool to absorb your requirements. 945 00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,080 So it's more of a logical conversation that a technical 946 00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:08,680 one, which demonstrated to be interestingly more challenging 947 00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:13,720 than maybe integrations with exotic systems of all sorts or 948 00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,400 federations with third party ADP and so forth. 949 00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,000 So I think that kind of was what I was thinking about too. 950 00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,360 Jason, what do you have as far as what do you think is the 951 00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:26,320 hardest part of a deployment? So, so I would add to what Marco 952 00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:30,000 said and look at when when these projects are going on. 953 00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:34,640 It's not just about implementing the tool specifically, but it's 954 00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:39,520 about usually some kind of an evolution of the business 955 00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:44,480 process at the the organization and the tool here is only one 956 00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,440 part of that that's kind of helping that out. 957 00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:53,400 So typically there needs to be some kind of a rollout for your 958 00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:58,760 the B2B organizations that are that you are interacting with. 959 00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:03,440 So there's training that needs to go and and happen on you know 960 00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:05,560 what is, what is the new philosophy, what is the new 961 00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:11,040 approach for accessing the the applications or for managing the 962 00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,920 users. So it's kind of that that 963 00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:17,800 distributed training of the end users, obviously everything 964 00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:22,680 needs to be intuitive, but ultimately you might be changing 965 00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,560 the way that your partners or that those different 966 00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,720 organizations are interacting with you. 967 00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:33,280 And so that becomes kind of a a part of the overall project or 968 00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,840 the overall life cycle, not just the implementation of this, this 969 00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:40,600 one particular part, it's usually part of a a larger 970 00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:44,480 deployment project in general. I love those tips because I 971 00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,480 think those are things that are real world valuable. 972 00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:52,760 So I appreciate that we've got a ton of experience, you know, on 973 00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,200 this conversation between the four of us. 974 00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:59,080 And I want to close out on a lighter note, and maybe not 975 00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:01,400 necessarily lighter, but more informative note, let's put it 976 01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:03,040 that way. Or recommendation note. 977 01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,920 What's a piece of advice that has stuck with you throughout 978 01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:08,800 your career? Marker. 979 01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,400 Why don't you go first all? Right, Yes. 980 01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:18,720 So the best piece of advice I ever received over my career is 981 01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:23,560 definitely from one of my early manager in the identity space. 982 01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:26,720 OK, the name name is Marcus J Krauslow. 983 01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,960 Let's give him the credit, OK? Which apart from being a great 984 01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:32,880 salesman, he was very wise in many ways. 985 01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,880 And his advice was if you're good at what you're doing you're 986 01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,600 making, you should be aiming to make yourself redundant. 987 01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:43,680 Meaning you should be teaching to others what you're good at so 988 01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:46,520 that they can do that without you being involved. 989 01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:51,760 OK, so that was a very sticky thing and I think makes a tons 990 01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,200 of sense. So that's what I feel like 991 01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:56,400 sharing. I like that. 992 01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:58,040 That's good, Jason. How about yourself? 993 01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:02,800 So yeah, thinking about this, that's a good question. 994 01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:06,400 So one of the things that comes to mind isn't necessarily kind 995 01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:12,760 of one in one advice that I have been given, but from an 996 01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:18,120 executive leader from my prior organization had seen them 997 01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:22,080 giving, you know, an internal talk on what does it mean to be 998 01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:25,640 a good leader. And he talked about the seven 999 01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,320 CS. Now, I don't mean bodies of 1000 01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:31,600 water, but the action like the the letter C so. 1001 01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:37,400 So he mentioned seven things. Confidence, calmness, committed, 1002 01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:43,160 consistency, clarity, constructive and compassionate. 1003 01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:45,440 And it always just stuck with me. 1004 01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:48,080 So I actually have a post it that I have on my desk. 1005 01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:51,000 I'm holding it up here. You can't see that on the 1006 01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,240 podcast. But that used that as a reminder 1007 01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:56,400 to myself every once in a while when I'm like, you know, am am 1008 01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:58,280 I? Am I doing the best I can to be 1009 01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:00,680 a leader in this organization? And I kind of go through the 1010 01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:04,160 checklist and see where where I can improve along the way. 1011 01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:07,760 So that's kind of stuck with me. That's another fantastic big 1012 01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:09,400 that's that's going to be a tough one to top. 1013 01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:12,720 Jim, how about yourself? I I can't top either of those, 1014 01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:18,240 but I will go back to I think this podcast put me back to my 1015 01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,880 late 20s self rolling out my first Identity project, which 1016 01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:27,360 was AB to B identity project and my CIO at the time, John Stout 1017 01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,720 said just always do what's right for the company. 1018 01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:35,800 It seems like such simple advice, but I remember back to 1019 01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:40,640 times where there were people who were with the company 30 1020 01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:42,600 plus years. Right now I'm sure they're doing 1021 01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:46,720 what they thought was right for the company, but they were very 1022 01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:51,200 resistant to change, didn't want to become part of this B to BIM 1023 01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:53,480 solution. They wanted to do things the way 1024 01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,160 they had always done. And as Jason can imagine, they 1025 01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:57,840 were from the mainframe era, right? 1026 01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:01,360 And they ran the, the order entry applications and things 1027 01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:05,720 like that, that the dealers used and they webified the mainframe 1028 01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,360 essentially, right. And they didn't want to become 1029 01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,160 part of the IM solution. And what would have been easier 1030 01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:15,720 for me would have been just to keep the peace and kind of try 1031 01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,360 to find some kind of watered down compromise solution. 1032 01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:22,040 But that was not what was right for the company, was right for 1033 01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:26,040 the company was to move forward and provide a better experience, 1034 01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:30,000 more secure experience, all that to our customers. 1035 01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:34,240 And so I used that advice. We ultimately did. 1036 01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:37,680 Now, I'm not saying that we took an uncompromising position 1037 01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:39,120 because that rarely works in life. 1038 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:44,640 But truly, if you just use that mantra, do what's right for the 1039 01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:49,760 company, I think more times than not you'll do what's right and 1040 01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:53,560 it will always be defensible. If you truly believe that what 1041 01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:56,920 you're doing is was the right thing for the company, then you 1042 01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:00,280 know in the end that you followed your your guiding 1043 01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,160 principle. Jeez Jim, that's pretty good. 1044 01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:08,360 Let me see for mine. So you kind of stole my Thunder 1045 01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,320 but I'm going to shift to a different one because the my my 1046 01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:13,480 thinking was is you can always get smarter it's OK to get 1047 01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:17,680 smarter. So that idea of evolution and, 1048 01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:20,160 you know, just because it's the way we've done it in the past, 1049 01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:21,440 doesn't mean we have to do it in the future. 1050 01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:24,360 And yes, mistakes will be, hey, that's part of life. 1051 01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:26,840 How do you get smarter? So you stole kind of my Thunder 1052 01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:28,640 on that one. I'm going to go back to my 1053 01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:32,320 restaurant days and restaurant manager I had his name was Bill 1054 01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:37,080 and we were just about to open up this new bar and, you know, 1055 01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,160 staff meeting, hey, let's get everybody together. 1056 01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:42,040 And I think one of the things that stuck out with me and this 1057 01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:46,320 is, you know, decades later, the customer is not always right, 1058 01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:48,960 which I found fascinating because I had worked in food 1059 01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:51,640 service and restaurants and bars for years at that point. 1060 01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:53,200 And you know, the customer is always right. 1061 01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:55,880 It was like, well, no, the customer is not always right. 1062 01:04:56,160 --> 01:05:00,400 Sometimes you need to help your customer figure out what they 1063 01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:03,840 need to do. They may not know, you know what 1064 01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:07,000 is in their best interest. And I I will just go back to 1065 01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:10,240 that because it's been such a, it was so ingrained in in that 1066 01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:12,360 business and customer service was like, oh, the customer is 1067 01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:13,960 always right. Well, no, not necessarily. 1068 01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:16,760 You've got to figure out how to help the customer move forward 1069 01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:19,760 sometimes and kind of I think goes along with kind of what 1070 01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:21,120 you're what you were saying Jim as well. 1071 01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:24,520 So, so that's my customers. I thought you were going to say 1072 01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:27,560 your your ranch dressing is not always the most important thing 1073 01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:29,920 in the world. That is definitely another one 1074 01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:33,360 of the things that I've learned. 5 table section shout out to all 1075 01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:35,440 my chili heads or former chili heads out there. 1076 01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:39,400 A 5 table section at Chili's on a Friday or Saturday night is no 1077 01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:41,120 joke. Hardest job I've ever had. 1078 01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:42,960 Learned a lot in restaurant business. 1079 01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,200 But yeah, so you learn at that point the ranch dressing is not 1080 01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:46,320 the most important thing in the world. 1081 01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:50,080 OK. I think, I think we've we've 1082 01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,360 covered a lot of ground as part of this conversation. 1083 01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:56,080 I think one thing that's going to be helpful for folks is the 1084 01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:58,400 team from Tallis, when Welcome is going to be at a few 1085 01:05:58,400 --> 01:05:59,640 different conferences throughout the year. 1086 01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:02,960 I'm looking forward to see them at a few myself. 1087 01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:06,240 So they're going to be at Gartner's I Am Summit, RSA 1088 01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,560 Identiverse, Cooper, Cooper Cole Conference. 1089 01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:12,440 So we're going to get a chance to to meet the folks there as 1090 01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:15,880 well as Jim and I head up to those, but definitely reach out 1091 01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:19,400 to Marco, reach out to Jason. We'll have links to their 1092 01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:22,560 LinkedIn profiles and our show notes, as well as a link where 1093 01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:25,600 you can check out more about the Tawas One welcome solution. 1094 01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:29,720 That website againcpl.tawasgroup.com, 1095 01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:36,320 cpl.thalesgroup.com. It'll be in the show notes, so 1096 01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:39,560 easy to click on there and definitely appreciate you guys, 1097 01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:41,680 Marco and Jason for for being part of this. 1098 01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:45,360 Marco, I'll give you the final word, followed by Jason. 1099 01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:47,360 What's 1. One thing that someone should 1100 01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:49,200 take away from this conversation Who's been listening? 1101 01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:53,640 Well, that B2B exists. It's no longer a blind spot, OK? 1102 01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:57,960 You have solutions, Good to go to make that easy and doable in 1103 01:06:57,960 --> 01:06:59,200 a matter of weeks. OK. 1104 01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:01,360 That's the take away from what we just discussed. 1105 01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:04,240 That's good, Jason. How about yourself, Final World? 1106 01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:10,760 Yeah, I think, you know No2 situations look alike in the in 1107 01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:14,440 the B2B world or that that might be the the case on the surface. 1108 01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:19,240 But there are lots of patterns and lots of institutional 1109 01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:21,800 knowledges that have been built up to help you solve those 1110 01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:25,280 problems. So don't go it alone. 1111 01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:30,000 Look for help and there's many across the industry who are 1112 01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:32,640 willing to jump in and lend a hand and lend their expertise. 1113 01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:34,600 All right. I can't stop that. 1114 01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:36,360 So we're going to end it there for this week. 1115 01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:38,120 Appreciate everyone for listening. 1116 01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:40,360 You can find us on the web, IDAC podcast. 1117 01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:42,880 Got Pod. Nah, that was terrible. 1118 01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:45,360 Let me do that again. Appreciate everyone for 1119 01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:47,520 listening. You can find us on the web at 1120 01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:53,480 idacpodcast.com, at Twitter, at IDAC podcast and Macedon IDAC 1121 01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:56,560 podcast at Infosec dot exchange. So with that, thanks everyone 1122 01:07:56,560 --> 01:07:59,120 for listening and we'll talk with everyone in the next one. 1123 01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:03,760 You've been listening to Identity at the Center. 1124 01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:08,200 We hope you've enjoyed the show. Make sure to like, rate and 1125 01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:11,840 review and we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hit the 1126 01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:15,960 website at identity@thecenter.com and find 1127 01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:23,399 us on Twitter at IDAC Podcast. See you next time on Identity at 1128 01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:24,359 the Center.