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You're listening to the identity
of the center podcast, this is 

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the show that talks about 
identity and access management 

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and making sure you know who has
access to what let's get 

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started. 
Welcome to the identity of the 

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center podcast. 
I'm Jeff been that's Jim. 

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Hey Jim hey Jeff, how are you? 
Oh not so bad yourself. 

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I'm good. 
I'm good. 

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I'm not going to complain about 
the heat wave I live in Georgia 

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and it's hot for like four 
months straight. 

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So to me I know a lot of the 
folks I'm talking to you from 

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around the country are like oh 
my God, it's so hot but to me 

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it's like it's just another day 
of hot. 

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It's I'm in. 
Now, the mountains of Western 

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North Carolina, it's not quite 
as hot which is kind of nice 

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still, humid, but surviving. 
I think, yeah, the heat wave has

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been like all over the world. 
Basically, you know, like 

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England head if shoes. 
I think it was last week or 

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maybe was earlier this week. 
I don't times flying at this 

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point. 
Yeah, right. 

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Yeah, the big thing I've been 
working on this week, is kind of

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coming up with a conference plan
for the group that I'm in. 

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And really, you know, No, 
obviously you've got the 

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opportunities, like Business 
Development opportunities that 

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come from conferences than top 
of that. 

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Of course there's the training 
aspect, you know, go there and 

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receive training and I think the
third thing that doesn't get 

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enough attention is that it's 
really like a reward, almost 

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like a retention kind of aspect 
to conferences. 

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Like if you bring folks to 
conferences or Let folks go to 

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conferences, they see it. 
As, you know, they're being 

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rewarded or they're being 
recognized as somebody who's 

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worthy of being invested in. 
What do you think? 

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I think, I feel like we talked 
about this, a few weeks back. 

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Generally, I want to agree with 
you. 

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There are some people who don't 
like going to conferences and 

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might see it as a punishment. 
So I could see it as a two-sided

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coin. 
I think it just depends on the 

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individual. 
And you know, why are you going 

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there? 
I think my attendance at Fences 

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has changed over the years, it 
used to be for learning now it's

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less. 
So, it's more networking and, 

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you know, business development 
and sort of things like that. 

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I kind of wish it was, you know,
more Focus sometimes on the 

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learning side. 
But you get so busy at these 

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conferences, going from one 
meeting to a next to another 

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that there's I'm always 
personally finding less and less

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time to actually kind of sit 
down and actually listen and 

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enjoy the content live. 
I don't have to catch it after 

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the fact. 
So I mean during the pandemic we

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were attending conferences. 
Virtually I I did that myself. 

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You know what I found was, a lot
of times I couldn't stay focused

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on the conference the entire 
day. 

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So you know, especially knowing 
that sessions would be available

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for later viewing. 
I felt like the training and 

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learning side of it was enhanced
because you can really focus on 

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it but that everything else was 
not nearly as good. 

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Yeah, that's for sure. 
I mean the hallway conversations

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just, you know, seeing people 
and faces and voices that you 

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recognize that that whole stuff.
Definitely spare time, it's 

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back. 
I was at RSA earlier this year 

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miss the Denver's because it was
moving and then we're gonna be 

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at Gartner in a few weeks. 
So I'm looking forward to that 

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as well but it's back man would 
just sort of like this is we're 

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just going to move forward now 
unless something happens this 

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kind of move things backwards 
but I don't see that happening. 

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No, I don't think so. 
Yeah. 

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So as you mentioned, we're 
heading out to the Gartner 

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conference and hoping to up our 
podcast game, a little bit. 

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What are your thoughts are? 
I think, yes. 

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Upping, the game will be a 
challenge as usual, but we're 

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starting from zero. 
So anything is an improvement. 

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We are actually still looking 
for a place to record. 

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While we're out there, we 
actually tried to go the Gartner

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route, and that was not 
successful in finding a spot 

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that we could set up camp at. 
So if there's any friends of the

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show out there that have like a 
breakout room or something 

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that's convenient within the 
conference based in Las Vegas, 

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Reach Out. 
We'd love to figure out how we, 

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maybe we could share some of 
that space with you at least for

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Time because we are definitely 
looking to do some podcasting 

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and get some guests. 
And maybe even hopefully, if we 

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can get enough people, you know,
one, two or three, people that 

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want to watch how the sausage is
made so to speak, that's 

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certainly an option as well. 
But as of right now, I feel like

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it's going to be you and me 
holding these little 

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microphones. 
And a costing people in 

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hallways, are trying to find 
like little cubby holes that we 

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can do things in, I guess we 
could try to look for like a 

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sweet or something like that at 
Caesars but that's nowhere near 

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as convenience. 
That's kind of like a fallback 

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plan right now. 
So hey Hey, we'd like a show. 

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We want you to walk half an hour
across this casino up into this 

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sweet and then, you know, spend 
an hour there or 45 minutes, or 

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15 minutes, whatever it is, and 
then walk another half hour back

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to work back to the show. 
It's just not the same. 

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So, blending options and then 
again, we can't really record at

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the roulette table or Starbucks 
or anything like that. 

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Yeah, there's some rules about 
recording and public spaces, and

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things like that. 
I wasn't even thinking about 

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that. 
I just remember thinking about 

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your thinking, always annoys you
Oh, trust me. 

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I was thinking about it too. 
But yeah, so if you're if you're

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a friend of the show or not even
a friend of the show but you 

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have a lead on some some 
breakout space that might be in 

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the conference area or even 
something similar, you know, 

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reach out to us on LinkedIn, 
would be happy to discuss and 

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figure out if there's an option 
here that we can do something 

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together to make event to take 
advantage of it. 

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Yeah, that's Gartner. 
I think we're also looking at 

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Octane coming up in the future 
which is a November. 

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So yeah, we're sort of Of 
getting our our conference 

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circuit, you know, back on the 
back on track, after a couple of

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years here of Hiatus. 
Yeah, never actually been to 

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Octane. 
I think it was supposed to go to

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it. 
The first year of the pandemic, 

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so, obviously that didn't 
happen, but it should be a 

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fantastic conference. 
And again, you know, hopefully, 

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we can set new records in terms 
of, you know, putting the 

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podcasts out with a great 
frequency, maybe five. 

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Six episodes in a week and I'm 
just putting in some crazy ideas

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on my plate. 
It's basically work on your 

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plate, but hey, the scheduling 
side is now so easy. 

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Yeah, that's true. 
Especially I don't know if 

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you've seen your calendar early 
lately but it's a disaster. 

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Well, everybody knows, right. 
Just just because you're 

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traveling or you're taking time 
off or whatever. 

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It may be, the work doesn't 
disappear. 

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It just shifts from one area of 
your calendar to another. 

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So yeah, my calendar was crazy 
earlier this week. 

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It's today's been a little bit 
lighter. 

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So it would kind of be able to 
catch up on some things. 

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But yeah, availability is always
a challenge in this crazy world,

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but why don't we get to our 
topic? 

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Because I actually kind of 
interested in several of the 

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things we're going to talk about
today. 

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So actually, this entire show is
basically formed her on one, 

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tweet from an individual named 
Chris power who tweeted us few 

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days back with a bunch of topic 
suggestions. 

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We're kind of going to go 
through somewhat of a surgery as

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you kind of put it as your kind 
of preparing here for the show 

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to kind of dissect. 
At least what we think some of 

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the questions were that he 
tweeted out or she I mean I 

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guess I'm not sure no, it's 
okay. 

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Is it okay what we think the 
intent is behind the question 

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kind of work through that. 
So yeah, Chris Hildebrand sweet 

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and Chris the defense Twitter 
limits us to 140 characters And 

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he wanted to ask like ten 
questions in one tweet and so, 

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yeah, he's just better, 
Twitter's money's worth for sure

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on this tweet. 
I think we it is like six or 

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seven questions in here that 
will try to address, but why we 

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just dive right into it. 
So Chris if you're listening, 

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this one's for you. 
Hopefully others get value out 

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of it too. 
If you do have questions, 

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definitely tweet about us. 
We will try to build build an 

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episode around it or weed them 
into other episodes that were 

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working through but here we go. 
Alright, so topic suggestions 

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Extracts management more or less
job roles, how to build admin 

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intelligence or IAI managing 
audit expectations, provisioning

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outside of sale point in 
parentheses, third-party apps, 

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validating extracts, and you say
she's got more if wanted. 

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All right. 
Well, let's start with the first

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one. 
Let's talk through manual. 

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Extracts Management's. 
First of all, what do you think 

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he's referring to with that 
statement? 

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Well, just judging on the 
Tweeter overall I think. 

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This might be a set point user. 
Right? 

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And so guessing I'm guessing. 
Yeah, so I'm kind of thinking of

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it from a sales Point 
architecture perspective, 

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there's multiple ways to 
integrate with applications, and

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one way is kind of the 
quote-unquote, disconnected 

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application. 
And so in that disconnected 

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application, you could work 
simply with like file feeds to, 

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you know, or file extract. 
To take them into cell point and

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build, you know, the data for 
the access catalog or for an 

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access recertification. 
So, you know, I've always 

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referred to this as the least 
common denominator integration. 

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So, in other words, just like 
there's no reason you can't 

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integrate into cell point from 
your application, even if it's 

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like, the legacy of the Legacy, 
you should be able to Sport a 

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flat file comment. 
Eliminator tabbed Eliminator or 

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what have you and so what I 
think Chris is getting at here 

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is like, how do you put a whole 
framework or process around 

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that? 
And to me it kind of starts off 

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with kind of trying to put some 
rules to the road in terms of 

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what the format of that file 
should be when it should be 

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uploaded, where should be 
uploaded things like that. 

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Ideally Um there's not an 
opportunity for humans to touch 

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the file so in other words the 
files being created on the 

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system. 
So say we're talking about a 

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Mainframe and as being, you 
know, somehow FTP or transfer to

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your file share. 
So, a lot of times what I've 

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seen corporations do is they'll 
set up a SharePoint or OneDrive 

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and have files put on that one 
drive. 

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Now, typically what I've seen is
that a human being like, pulls 

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the file, And moves it but you 
know the more often you're doing

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that the more likely it is that 
you're going to create some 

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automation around it. 
So I would say just keep that in

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your back pocket that if even if
you're doing just quarterly at 

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two stations or even annual 
attestations try to ramp up the 

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frequency of that upload so that
you start to drive the idea of 

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automation of getting those 
files uploaded but a lot of 

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times this is where you're 
starting to get into. 

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The wild west of your it 
environment and you're just 

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happy to have something. 
So again it's kind of like 

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setting up the policy for what 
does that track should be like 

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how they get uploaded things 
like that. 

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And then I think the other thing
that a lot of times what you 

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need is like some kind of 
translation of the file, like, 

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what is it, what are these 
columns that are in the file? 

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What do they signify in the 
application? 

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Because ultimately, you're going
to design a campaign around the,

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the you Data that's that's in 
those files. 

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Yeah, I like that analogy of the
Wild West because I feel like 

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it's is like the frontier. 
You're building an outpost, 

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you're not sure what's going to 
come in the door. 

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So I think your I agree with 
you. 

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I think this is probably talking
about those, those disconnected 

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systems, so to speak that are 
not using like a formal 

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connector right to like, read 
the data directly. 

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I think part of the question 
that he also asked later is, 

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that is like, validation of 
extracts, you talked about, you 

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know what? 
What Asian of the file or file 

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type is a coming in CSV some 
other version. 

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What are the expected data 
attributes? 

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And values? 
Is it Boolean? 

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Is it a string? 
You know what, kind of string it

227
00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:49,300
may be like those sorts of 
things. 

228
00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:52,900
I think this is where 
coordination with whoever is 

229
00:12:52,900 --> 00:12:55,800
extracting that data, you're 
working with them to make sure 

230
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,800
that you're getting the data 
back in a, in a format, that is 

231
00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:02,400
parsable. 
I think this is also an area 

232
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,700
where, yeah, I think his story 
Clearly, it would be done 

233
00:13:05,700 --> 00:13:08,500
manually where someone will pick
up the file from a SharePoint or

234
00:13:08,500 --> 00:13:12,000
OneDrive or any other file share
and then run like an import 

235
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,300
into, for example, your IJ tool,
let's call sale point in this 

236
00:13:15,300 --> 00:13:18,500
case because I think that's what
we're talking about here, I see 

237
00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:21,400
more RPA. 
Now, robotic process Opera 

238
00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:26,200
automation, taking up a lot of 
the stuff and doing some of that

239
00:13:26,300 --> 00:13:28,500
work for you. 
So there might be some 

240
00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:32,500
opportunities to say, okay, 
well, you talked about like this

241
00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:35,400
integration pattern like the the
lowest Common denominators, 

242
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,600
refer to was okay. 
Well, at least let's just get an

243
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,400
extract of data so we can make 
our IG a platform at least aware

244
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:43,900
of what's out there. 
Can't really do anything with 

245
00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:45,400
it, but at least it's aware of 
it, right? 

246
00:13:46,300 --> 00:13:50,200
And if you can leverage some 
sort of our PA to ingest that 

247
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,400
for you automatically, if you 
can't do it, you know, through 

248
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:58,300
the platform itself, then that 
might be sort of a another is 

249
00:13:58,300 --> 00:14:02,500
there, a lower lower lower list,
common denominator, to, to 

250
00:14:02,500 --> 00:14:05,600
automate that. 
So that steps but I think that's

251
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,300
you're really kind of looking 
again at that that Wild West. 

252
00:14:08,300 --> 00:14:09,500
It's like you're not sure what's
coming. 

253
00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:12,600
If you're if that's all you have
left from like an integration 

254
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,900
standpoint, you're probably 
doing pretty well like from a 

255
00:14:14,900 --> 00:14:17,600
sales point perspective which is
call it or any IGA perspective 

256
00:14:17,900 --> 00:14:21,300
is if you're look if like you're
down to just systems that there 

257
00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:25,300
are not connectors for that's 
that's a problem that I think a 

258
00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:28,600
lot of people would love to have
because that means they probably

259
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,200
moved pretty far down the 
maturity scale and gotten a lot 

260
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,400
of their, you know, bigger, 
maybe more well-known 

261
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:34,500
applications, that do have 
connections. 

262
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,200
Actors, you know, set up, I 
guess the alternative could be. 

263
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,300
You've got some sort of like, 
group that just for whatever 

264
00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:43,800
reason, doesn't want to play 
ball, you know, be part of the I

265
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,600
am program and be part of the, 
the, the, the IGA platform, 

266
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,200
whatever it looks like. 
It's probably more of a 

267
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,200
political battle, but that's 
kind of what I'm thinking from 

268
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,300
that perspective. 
Yeah. 

269
00:14:55,300 --> 00:14:59,500
That that last point that you 
brought up is something in my 

270
00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:03,800
experience of working with cell 
Point Architects, almost every 

271
00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,400
time. 
I was in like you know advisory 

272
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:12,000
roles like we are not doing flat
file Imports, there are such a 

273
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,000
pain in the butt and I think 
that's getting to the part of 

274
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,200
the question where Chris asked 
about validation. 

275
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,100
Like, imagine a comma-separated 
value where you have the 

276
00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:25,200
person's name and it's comma, 
MD, or comma p h key or 

277
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,400
something like that. 
They'll like perk the file and 

278
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,800
now you have to figure out like 
what's causing the file to break

279
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,500
and you're trying to imply 
automate this process what-if. 

280
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,300
You have 100 applications that 
are doing this and what if 

281
00:15:37,300 --> 00:15:39,900
you're getting these extracts on
a regular basis? 

282
00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:43,300
Now I'm sure somebody sitting 
out there saying well then you 

283
00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:47,700
know, through parentheses or not
parentheses, but quotes around 

284
00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:49,400
all the data or something like 
that. 

285
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,200
And I'm I'm sure somebody's got 
like a best practice. 

286
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,200
But if you can find a way to 
break it, somebody's out there, 

287
00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:01,100
breaking it. 
I guess what I was also thinking

288
00:16:01,100 --> 00:16:06,300
is, you know, where these can be
valuable Is on the big selling 

289
00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:10,500
point of having an IGA system is
building. 

290
00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:15,700
Truly a Depot of one place to go
to know who has access to what 

291
00:16:16,100 --> 00:16:20,000
and that's, you know, when you 
use that statements like to who 

292
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,300
has access to what it means, 
everything like, what's all the 

293
00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:25,700
access they have? 
If you're in a big Enterprise, 

294
00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:30,200
with thousands of applications? 
That's a lot of applications, 

295
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,100
right? 
And so if you get one place to 

296
00:16:33,100 --> 00:16:38,300
go to know who has Access to our
top 125 applications. 

297
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,100
That's not really as compelling 
as well as access to all of our 

298
00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:45,800
data writer. 
All of our data that is of some 

299
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:51,300
relevance and so there's got to 
be some velocity in terms of you

300
00:16:51,300 --> 00:16:54,400
know when you implement one of 
these systems getting all of 

301
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:59,300
your your applications 
integrated and so you know flat 

302
00:16:59,300 --> 00:17:01,600
files while I don't like them 
either. 

303
00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:04,500
To me it's better if you could 
you know. 

304
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:10,300
Just set up a connector to hit a
relational database and pull the

305
00:17:10,300 --> 00:17:13,599
data from the database. 
Because I think that the point 

306
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:16,500
then is that you run into much 
fewer these errors. 

307
00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:21,500
But if that's not available or 
to the point that you're making 

308
00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:24,900
because this I've been seeing as
long as I've been in I as 

309
00:17:24,900 --> 00:17:27,800
actually, as long as I've been 
in it, there's some people who 

310
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,300
just don't want to play nice. 
They just don't want to be 

311
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,400
bothered by what you're doing, 
because their job is way too 

312
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,100
important. 
They can't have you screwing 

313
00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:40,000
around with their system, but if
you just need a file dumped on 

314
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,000
an FTP site, yeah, we can do 
that. 

315
00:17:43,700 --> 00:17:47,400
Sometimes that file is sort of 
like the first step you might do

316
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,600
that initially with the goal of 
eventually using a connector or 

317
00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:54,900
maybe that maybe that system 
gets deprecated or is no longer 

318
00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:59,200
strategic, the organization goes
away but not the ideal way that 

319
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,400
I would look at the creation I 
think, you know, at that point 

320
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,500
maybe the question is, is the 
juice worth the squeeze? 

321
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,500
Is it something you really want 
to spend time on or are there 

322
00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:10,300
other things that maybe provide 
more value? 

323
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:11,700
That could be another way to 
look at it too. 

324
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,700
So Let's move on to the next 
one. 

325
00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:20,600
It is more or less job roles. 
I certainly have an opinion on 

326
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,400
this one. 
What do you think? 

327
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,100
Jim now I think what we decided 
beforehand was that we're going 

328
00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:28,400
to go every other one. 
So now it's your turn to go 

329
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,400
first. 
So, let's see what that opinion 

330
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,500
that I get to. 
I get to leverage some of your 

331
00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:35,500
answer. 
All right. 

332
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,700
I like to keep things simple. 
So I'm more of a fan of less job

333
00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:43,700
roles, at least to start with, I
prefer more of an attribute 

334
00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:47,100
based approach to and having 
more roles. 

335
00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:50,500
But more consistent roles, what 
I mean by that, is taking a few 

336
00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:52,500
attributes from like your 
authoritative Source. 

337
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,200
I'm an employee in North 
Carolina, I'm all set. 

338
00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,200
Chicago Old Habits, will die and
employee in North Carolina and I

339
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:05,300
work in information security. 
Those three attributes might 

340
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:07,200
drive three different roles 
that. 

341
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,800
Give me what I need, if I 
change, maybe I am an employee. 

342
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,400
Who moves back to Chicago? 
But I still stayed information 

343
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,100
security. 
Two of those attributes. 

344
00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:18,700
Stay the same and maybe that 
third attribute that was 

345
00:19:18,700 --> 00:19:20,200
controlling other axis change as
well. 

346
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,200
So I prefer less job roles 
themselves. 

347
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,700
They feel like they're pretty 
volatile and it's a lot of work 

348
00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:30,400
to keep them up to date, 
especially the coordination that

349
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,300
needs to go along with what 
happens if you have shared job 

350
00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:36,500
titles between different groups 
and analysts. 

351
00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:39,100
And one group might be different
than analysts and other support 

352
00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:43,000
support, you know, whatever it 
may be and the coordination. 

353
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,200
The you To also have with 
whoever is the owner of the 

354
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,500
authoritative Source. 
Typically, like HR or maybe 

355
00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:51,900
Finance, if maybe its 
contractors, are not employees 

356
00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:53,200
involved, right? 
Things like that. 

357
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,600
So I'd rather keep things simple
at least to start again. 

358
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,900
I think this is another area 
where I go out of organizations 

359
00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:02,500
say they want to be you know, 
fully role-based, you know, 

360
00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:06,400
Access Control in place and it's
really hard to do especially if 

361
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,500
you don't have good data and 
good tools to actually make it 

362
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:11,600
happen. 
All right, your turn. 

363
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,200
Okay, I'm going to generally 
agree with you, fewers better. 

364
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:21,100
I'm going to in a put a spin on 
it, which is that, you know, 

365
00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:26,900
I've been involved with kind of 
building an are back from the 

366
00:20:26,900 --> 00:20:31,200
ground up. 
And so to me this is my opinion.

367
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,200
I think that there's so many 
folks out there who have 

368
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,600
experience with roles and have a
different perspective. 

369
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:41,700
But to me, it's you want to 
start out with What can we Grant

370
00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:46,000
access to automatically? 
So when we onboard somebody, can

371
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,300
we create the Ada account? 
Can we put them in the right 

372
00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:54,000
groups based on attributes in 
their, you know, their identity 

373
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,700
data authoritative file. 
So, for employees and be an HR 

374
00:20:58,700 --> 00:21:03,500
System or for a non-employee, it
might be some other system, but 

375
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,600
if there's data attributes are 
or even if you're creating them 

376
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:11,400
in your IGA system, but 
identifying those at You see, he

377
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,100
off of like, they're in Chicago,
so they have access to the 

378
00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:18,900
Chicago lunch menu. 
And, you know, that's our silly 

379
00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:21,300
example. 
We always point to, but the idea

380
00:21:21,300 --> 00:21:25,200
being that, you know, there you 
can onboard somebody, give them 

381
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:30,500
email accounts. 
Give them, you know, VPN, I'm 

382
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:32,200
sorry. 
Were you were you wanted to say 

383
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,300
something? 
Okay, now, I was just clapping 

384
00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:40,200
at the lunch menu, example, just
We also use it all the time but 

385
00:21:40,300 --> 00:21:42,800
yeah, I know. 
I want to say for the record. 

386
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,300
I Am pro watch. 
Yeah, yeah. 

387
00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:50,300
Everybody should have lunch so 
All right. 

388
00:21:50,300 --> 00:21:51,800
I think that's the starting 
point. 

389
00:21:51,900 --> 00:21:56,600
I think then on top of it, you 
know, one of my other major 

390
00:21:56,700 --> 00:22:02,000
rules drivers is that the 
business has to own the roles. 

391
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,100
They have to get behind the 
roles that doesn't mean they 

392
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:08,700
have to create them in a silo or
create some of that it's-- help,

393
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,200
but they can't be so 
disconnected from the process 

394
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:16,500
that they don't have any skin in
the game and so that's where I 

395
00:22:16,500 --> 00:22:22,300
start to dial it back to, you 
know, Identifying somebody in 

396
00:22:22,300 --> 00:22:25,500
the business, in a business 
departments, a finance or say 

397
00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:30,200
HR, who understands enough about
technology be dangerous or is 

398
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:34,700
involved with the provisioning 
of users that they work with 

399
00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:39,700
your, it rolls administrator, 
your IGA rolls administrator to 

400
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:44,500
design the roles and then I 
think, the area where you start 

401
00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:48,500
is where you have people who 
basically do the same thing. 

402
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,100
So if you have something like A 
call center or you have 

403
00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:56,300
something like you know, people 
who do nursing now. 

404
00:22:56,300 --> 00:22:59,100
All nurses, don't do the same 
job as I've learned from working

405
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:02,100
with Healthcare clients but they
have a lot of the same 

406
00:23:02,100 --> 00:23:04,700
responsibilities you need access
to the same system. 

407
00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:09,200
So there may be a baseline 
nursing role and then based on 

408
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,500
the type of nurse they are, it 
can Branch off from there. 

409
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:17,000
But even if you, you know, if 
you take that 80/20 perspective,

410
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,100
that was the other thing I was 
going to say is I think you need

411
00:23:19,100 --> 00:23:22,200
to take a detour. 
Any perspective like rolls isn't

412
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:27,000
going to get you to 100% 
automation of access assignment 

413
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,800
at least. 
I've never seen anywhere come 

414
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,400
even close to 100%. 
So if you kind of come to a 

415
00:23:31,408 --> 00:23:34,300
point where you're saying, we're
trying to get to a point where 

416
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:39,200
we've either automated or 
simplify the axis assignment, 

417
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:44,500
for 80% of the access that needs
to be provisioned, you win, you 

418
00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:48,900
win big time. 
And so to me, focus on people 

419
00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:52,600
that do the same job. 
Or do portions of the job. 

420
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,700
The same don't focus on like it 
administrators and folks like 

421
00:23:56,700 --> 00:23:59,300
that. 
They're so hard to get a role 

422
00:23:59,300 --> 00:24:03,700
for that basically or and have 
one roll per person and then you

423
00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:08,900
lose It sounds unlikely. 
We agree for the most part. 

424
00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:12,800
Keep it simple. 
Less is more 80/20. 

425
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,800
All right, let's move on the 
next one. 

426
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,100
I'll be honest. 
This one had helped me a little 

427
00:24:16,100 --> 00:24:19,100
bit stumped. 
I wasn't quite sure, but but 

428
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:24,300
it's how to build admin 
intelligence or IAI, okay? 

429
00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:25,900
And then you and I were talking 
as I could maybe it has 

430
00:24:25,900 --> 00:24:28,700
something to do with like 
intelligence within specifically

431
00:24:28,700 --> 00:24:30,900
like the IGA platform maybe sell
Point. 

432
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,700
What I guess, what are you 
inferring from this question? 

433
00:24:34,100 --> 00:24:38,800
Yeah, I mean this is like Over 
the past few years. 

434
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,500
This is an area where the IGA 
platforms have really invested 

435
00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:49,200
to start to try to differentiate
their products and from an 

436
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,700
intelligence standpoint, I think
a lot of the focus has been put 

437
00:24:53,700 --> 00:25:00,500
on trying to predictively either
assign or recommend access. 

438
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,800
Be assigned to certain people. 
So, in other words, hey, where 

439
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,400
you're assigning Access to Jeff.
We see there. 

440
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:13,900
Everybody else who's on the 
security and privacy team also 

441
00:25:13,900 --> 00:25:18,700
has access to XYZ application? 
Do you want to go ahead and give

442
00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:22,000
it to Jeff as well? 
So in other words it somehow is 

443
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,100
analyzing the data to make these
predictions. 

444
00:25:25,100 --> 00:25:31,300
I make things, you know, using 
artificial intelligence to make 

445
00:25:31,300 --> 00:25:33,600
sure that Jeff has the access he
needs. 

446
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,500
I think that the best way to To 
kind of go about building. 

447
00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:42,400
That is, I think from the first 
and point, it's this very 

448
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,900
product-specific, there's 
something that products are 

449
00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:46,700
using to differentiate 
themselves. 

450
00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:51,600
So it's proprietary. 
I think you have to look at what

451
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:56,100
the vendors recommending in 
terms of what their product can 

452
00:25:56,100 --> 00:26:00,000
do and how to configure it. 
I think, you know, in terms of 

453
00:26:00,300 --> 00:26:04,500
of best practices for me, it's 
like dip your toe in the water 

454
00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:08,300
like enter into the This area 
slowly because what you don't 

455
00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:12,900
want to have happen, is 
artificial intelligence, which 

456
00:26:12,900 --> 00:26:16,500
is essentially computer program,
kind of deciding who should get 

457
00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:20,100
what access when somebody's 
actually should be taken away, 

458
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,300
because then you don't even 
really know. 

459
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,600
You're getting much further away
from that kind of eye. 

460
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:31,500
Till ticket based methodology, 
and you're trusting a computer 

461
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:34,600
program that you don't really 
know how it works behind the 

462
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,400
scenes to decide. 
Guess what access and I think 

463
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,900
that I think most audit groups 
wouldn't really like that and I 

464
00:26:41,908 --> 00:26:44,100
don't think I would feel 
comfortable with that either. 

465
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,300
Yeah, I think if this is, if 
this is the direction you're 

466
00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:52,600
going down, you know, AI for 
example, it's only as good as 

467
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,000
the data that you're giving it 
is only as good as the a model 

468
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,300
that's built around. 
I think. 

469
00:26:58,300 --> 00:27:02,200
Generally right now, I am 
relatively skeptical that this 

470
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,000
stuff actually works in the real
world in the way that, you know,

471
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,400
vendors portray that at will. 
I think a lot of times it's 

472
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,300
based on sort of this ideal 
state of 0, we have all of our 

473
00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:16,600
systems connected. 
All of Our data is clean, all of

474
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,800
our users are in our sources and
I think anybody who's been an 

475
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,000
identity for more than, you 
know, 10 minutes probably 

476
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,400
realizes that that's not true. 
You know, the majority of the 

477
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:31,800
time. 
I'm, I'm, I'm skeptical. 

478
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,800
Let me just leave it that I 
think it's a data point to be 

479
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:39,500
used by somebody, to then help 
decide whether that information 

480
00:27:39,900 --> 00:27:43,700
is valid as part of the 
decision-making process. 

481
00:27:44,300 --> 00:27:47,300
I don't think We're yet at the 
spot where is completely 

482
00:27:47,300 --> 00:27:50,700
hands-off. 
And you know, we're letting you 

483
00:27:50,708 --> 00:27:54,800
know, some agent Smith run 
around inside your your IGA 

484
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,900
system making decisions on who 
has access to what that is 

485
00:27:59,900 --> 00:28:02,100
definitely not. 
What I've seen out there is 

486
00:28:02,100 --> 00:28:05,400
generally more of a tool to be 
able to say okay well we're 

487
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,200
trying to build roles and we see
that 80% of the people have this

488
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,700
access or hey Everett you know a
hundred percent of the people in

489
00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:13,300
your team have access to this 
thing. 

490
00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:16,700
We think it's okay like Like 
that, you know, maybe add some 

491
00:28:16,700 --> 00:28:19,500
value but again it's is only as 
good as the data that's coming 

492
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:23,000
into it. 
And it's judges should just be 

493
00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:26,900
part of the decision-making 
process, not the decision making

494
00:28:26,900 --> 00:28:30,300
process, if that makes sense. 
Yeah, the one thing that I'm 

495
00:28:30,300 --> 00:28:35,900
going to see here thinking about
it, the one area where I think 

496
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,900
artificial intelligence could 
really help is kind of that, 

497
00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:44,400
that key model, which is where 
you're analyzing, what access 

498
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,100
to. 
An account has and how much 

499
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:51,700
they're using that I've access. 
So, in other words because to me

500
00:28:51,700 --> 00:28:57,000
authorizations are kind of like 
that next Frontier of the attack

501
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,500
surface. 
So now, if I look at Jeff's 

502
00:28:59,500 --> 00:29:04,500
account and he has 500 
authorizations via the roles 

503
00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:08,300
that he's in. 
But over the past 12 months, 

504
00:29:08,700 --> 00:29:13,100
he's only used two hundred of 
them. well, then I have an 

505
00:29:13,100 --> 00:29:18,200
over-provision to count, most 
likely So I can see that. 

506
00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:19,900
Like that's, that's interesting 
to me. 

507
00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:23,400
Like, you're not, you're using 
really Behavior analytics, 

508
00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:25,800
right? 
To sort of enrich the 

509
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,200
notification process. 
I actually have a pretty good 

510
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,300
real life example of this is I 
have a Apple iPhone. 

511
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,300
I have an Apple Watch and over 
the last few weeks since I've 

512
00:29:36,300 --> 00:29:40,600
moved from to Chicago area, 
which is relatively flat to, 

513
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,500
Western North Carolina, which is
the opposite, very hilly. 

514
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,000
Apple is telling me. 
Hey you're A lot more 

515
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,400
stair-climbing than you normally
do. 

516
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:54,100
I am, I'm walking up a lot of 
Hills compared to what I used to

517
00:29:54,108 --> 00:29:56,500
do. 
And I think that sort of trend 

518
00:29:56,500 --> 00:29:59,400
indicator might be helpful from 
an analyst perspective to say, 

519
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,400
hey, that is, that is 
interesting. 

520
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,800
What do we do about that? 
And I think that's an area that,

521
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,600
you know, you and I have been 
talking about for years, we've 

522
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,200
seen sort of players in the 
space like EXA Beam, for 

523
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,100
example, and other sort of this,
what people call like this Sim 

524
00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:20,900
2.0, that is taking these owls 
and surfacing up to platforms, 

525
00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:22,200
to be able to make decisions 
with, right? 

526
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,700
We see this a little bit in the 
access management platform where

527
00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:28,200
the impossible travel scenario. 
Well, you know, Jeff just logged

528
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,700
in from Chicago and then three 
minutes later he logs in from 

529
00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:33,000
North Carolina, that doesn't 
make any sense. 

530
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,300
Let's do something about it. 
Throw up an MFA prompt or, you 

531
00:30:36,300 --> 00:30:38,000
know, some other challenge, 
whatever that looks like. 

532
00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:41,600
The same thing could be done 
from a identity governance 

533
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,500
perspective, or a privileged 
access management perspective, 

534
00:30:44,500 --> 00:30:47,900
where you taking those sorts of 
Ada, and you're leveraging a eye

535
00:30:47,900 --> 00:30:51,700
to spot those Trends and do 
something with it. 

536
00:30:51,900 --> 00:30:54,200
You know, if it's just surfacing
it up in a ticket, that's better

537
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,200
than it being lost in some sort 
of log somewhere. 

538
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,000
That, you know, no one looks at 
for six months and then by then,

539
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,300
it's too late. 
Yeah, you know, part of what my 

540
00:31:02,300 --> 00:31:07,800
concern is with, this AI is like
the teams that I think would be 

541
00:31:07,900 --> 00:31:11,900
we get the most benefit from. 
It are the ones who are the most

542
00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:14,200
vulnerable to what if it goes 
Haywire. 

543
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:19,900
So you know My concern is a lot 
of the companies that have 

544
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,800
scaled back the size of 13 
teams. 

545
00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:28,200
It's like, oh yeah, that's where
using AI to get more efficient 

546
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,400
would be really helpful but they
get further and further away 

547
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,800
from you actually knowing how 
the system works. 

548
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,100
And so to me it's a little bit 
of a scary combination. 

549
00:31:38,100 --> 00:31:42,600
But you know, also 
counterbalance that with the 

550
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,300
fact that more and more these 
things are moving to the cloud. 

551
00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:50,900
And you have even less until 
it's just about what's going on 

552
00:31:50,900 --> 00:31:54,900
behind the curtain truly as the 
software as a service, like 

553
00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:58,300
these are proprietary systems 
are not open source, you don't 

554
00:31:58,300 --> 00:32:03,600
always know how they're working 
behind the scenes and your urine

555
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:08,100
kind of a trust model that you 
know that system is going to 

556
00:32:08,100 --> 00:32:11,300
stay secure. 
And it's secure until it's not, 

557
00:32:11,300 --> 00:32:15,100
I guess. 
Yeah, I think I might humans 

558
00:32:15,100 --> 00:32:20,900
going to have flaws in it. 
So I want to bridge that part of

559
00:32:20,900 --> 00:32:24,000
the AI and being able to explain
it with the managing audit 

560
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,700
expectations. 
Because one of the things that I

561
00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:28,700
think about is like, okay, well 
hey, we're leveraging a auditor,

562
00:32:28,700 --> 00:32:33,500
we're leveraging AI to do these 
things for us and then the next 

563
00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:35,900
question, I would have it. 
An honor is okay, tell me how 

564
00:32:35,900 --> 00:32:39,800
your AI works. 
Can you can you actually explain

565
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,100
it, right? 
The algorithms is it documented 

566
00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:43,700
things like that? 
Are you going to be able to 

567
00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:48,500
produce the evidence that your 
AI is actually effective in 

568
00:32:48,508 --> 00:32:50,700
making that decision? 
So I think that goes along with 

569
00:32:50,700 --> 00:32:54,600
sort of the question next on the
list was managing audit 

570
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:59,200
expectations which is definitely
near and dear to my heart from a

571
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:03,400
former operation side of things.
I will go first as we kind of go

572
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,500
back and forth here, I think 
this is let's start with a. 

573
00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:08,500
Let's start with Our 
expectations. 

574
00:33:08,500 --> 00:33:11,300
The first one I think is you 
have to have a relationship with

575
00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:14,200
your Auditors. 
You cannot just treat them at 

576
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,500
arm's length as like the cops 
and they come in and check you 

577
00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:23,300
and your the bad guys. 
More generally speaking, most 

578
00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:26,200
Auditors, especially the 
internal Auditors are the check 

579
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,600
before the external Auditors 
come in is much better to have 

580
00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:33,300
things found from an internal 
audit perspective than from an 

581
00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:35,700
external audit perspective. 
So if you've got the 

582
00:33:35,700 --> 00:33:37,400
relationships there that is 
helpful. 

583
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,800
I think the other thing too is 
at least in my experience is 

584
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,100
that audit doesn't actually tell
you what to do. 

585
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,100
They are there to check on what 
you say you are going to do or 

586
00:33:48,100 --> 00:33:52,800
what are you've documented from 
a process procedure, whatever it

587
00:33:52,808 --> 00:33:55,200
might be to validate that what 
you're doing. 

588
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,000
From a process perspective, is 
actually what's taking place in 

589
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,300
real life. 
Now, you could argue, they might

590
00:34:00,300 --> 00:34:02,900
find that a process is 
ineffective and then you have to

591
00:34:02,900 --> 00:34:08,000
update the process or whatever 
it may be, but in the Is that 

592
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,600
I've been a part of and worked 
with generally, speaking audit 

593
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,199
is merely an advisor, they 
advise on risk. 

594
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:19,100
And they say, okay, here is what
we think should be taking place,

595
00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:22,500
but it's still up to the 
business to make a decision on 

596
00:34:22,500 --> 00:34:24,300
what they want to do about that 
risk. 

597
00:34:24,300 --> 00:34:27,600
And a lot of times what you'll 
see is, you know, an audit 

598
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,400
findings document that has the 
auditor the audit, you know, 

599
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,000
whatever are finding that they 
say they have. 

600
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,400
And then there's like this Blank
Spot called management response.

601
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,600
I've written enough of these in 
the past. 

602
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,600
A stores like okay, they're just
telling me what the problem is 

603
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,199
or what they, what they see as 
the problem now. 

604
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:45,900
It's up to me as the person 
who's going to write that 

605
00:34:45,900 --> 00:34:49,000
management response to say 
here's what we're going to do to

606
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,100
fix it. 
Or here's why I don't think that

607
00:34:52,100 --> 00:34:56,699
it is a risk and we will focus 
on other things instead. 

608
00:34:57,500 --> 00:35:01,000
So I think understanding those 
expectations and making sure 

609
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,000
that the Auditors understand 
what they're you know what it is

610
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:06,700
that they're looking at because 
sometimes you have to help them,

611
00:35:06,700 --> 00:35:10,900
they may not be as you 100 
percent Identity or 100% tool 

612
00:35:10,900 --> 00:35:13,400
base, or whatever. 
That maybe is making sure that 

613
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,300
they understand how the platform
works, whatever you're doing 

614
00:35:16,300 --> 00:35:20,600
from any perspective and how the
processes work and bringing them

615
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,400
into the fold. 
I like to include them as part 

616
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,300
of program management as part of
rolling things out. 

617
00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:26,500
I think they're a key 
stakeholder. 

618
00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:29,100
When it comes to, you know, 
designing, huh? 

619
00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:31,900
Services work. 
You want to make it audit 

620
00:35:31,900 --> 00:35:34,600
friendly and audit compliance as
much as possible at front rather

621
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,700
than try to do that stuff later.
So, sometimes that makes Sense 

622
00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:41,600
to invite them to a steering 
meeting or invite them into a 

623
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,900
you know and I vendor 
demonstration of a tool that 

624
00:35:44,900 --> 00:35:47,900
might be considering, right? 
Let them ask their questions as 

625
00:35:47,900 --> 00:35:50,300
well and help provide some of 
their input. 

626
00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:53,700
I think that's, I think it's an 
easy way to help sort of get 

627
00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:56,900
them into the fold and help 
manage those expectations. 

628
00:35:57,100 --> 00:35:59,400
Yeah, what do you think? 
Well, I think that the way 

629
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,400
you're talking about that, the 
way you're addressing, you're 

630
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,600
talking about internal external 
audit. 

631
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,500
Some work is a job bigger, more 
complex structures, like that. 

632
00:36:07,700 --> 00:36:10,800
T risk? 
That those are your teammates, 

633
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,300
right? 
They're the ones who are to 

634
00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:17,300
advise you in terms of how to 
pass the audit, I'm going to 

635
00:36:17,308 --> 00:36:21,300
throw out another perspective, 
which is that, I think the audit

636
00:36:21,300 --> 00:36:24,900
process that I see the most of 
the time is very reactive. 

637
00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:30,000
In other words, it's assessing 
how things are done and then, 

638
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:36,100
you know, inspecting the data 
looking for, you know, controls 

639
00:36:36,100 --> 00:36:39,500
that are broken. 
And identifying those think 

640
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,200
going out for so, in other 
words, if a control, if they 

641
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:48,000
don't find bad data or they 
don't find an exception to it, 

642
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,200
then the control works fine. 
So to me that's kind of like 

643
00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:55,800
that's not necessarily the 
spirit of what you're trying to 

644
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,200
achieve with the these 
regulations are trying to 

645
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:04,400
achieve is that you've got a 
more secure environment, not 

646
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:09,100
just that you pass the audit and
So here's an example where I see

647
00:37:09,100 --> 00:37:12,000
that. 
So around user experience and 

648
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,700
what we talk a lot about with 
user experience, when it comes 

649
00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:20,000
to the detective control of 
reviewing access is that 

650
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,800
sometimes people get overwhelmed
as like here's your 50 users 

651
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,800
that report to you and therefore
hundred entitlements do you 

652
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:32,100
should they have and they're 
named XYZ 1, 2 3. 

653
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:38,500
And The managers like, you know,
I'm afraid to take away access 

654
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,200
for this person because what if 
they can't do their job? 

655
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,200
Last time I tried to get 
somebody access, it took 10 

656
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,800
days. 
There's no way I'm going to take

657
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,400
access away, unless the person 
has left the organization. 

658
00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:53,000
So I'm just going to approve. 
Everything is what we call a 

659
00:37:53,008 --> 00:37:55,700
rubber stamp. 
And I mean, how many clients do 

660
00:37:55,707 --> 00:37:57,700
we go into? 
Are like yeah, reverse a 

661
00:37:57,700 --> 00:37:59,500
problem. 
You get audited? 

662
00:37:59,500 --> 00:38:01,200
Yeah, we get audited you 
pasteurize. 

663
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:02,300
Yeah. 
We pass our audits. 

664
00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:05,500
So, in other words, even though 
you have a Can process you pass 

665
00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:08,700
your audit. 
So that's part of my 

666
00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:10,700
perspective. 
I wanted to bring up one other 

667
00:38:10,700 --> 00:38:16,300
thing which is I see some you 
know some identity governance 

668
00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:21,100
tools that are kind of early in 
their maturity, which I think 

669
00:38:21,100 --> 00:38:28,000
our focus more on organizations 
that maybe don't have as steep 

670
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,700
of a compliance curve to 
overcome as a where I'm getting 

671
00:38:32,700 --> 00:38:36,000
at by that, like few, Think back
to very early in variety 

672
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:41,300
careers, the way that audit 
evidence would take places that 

673
00:38:41,300 --> 00:38:47,000
the administrator would take 
screenshots of the user list or 

674
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,500
they print it out on, you know, 
the the dot matrix printer and 

675
00:38:51,500 --> 00:38:53,700
like that wood and then they 
scan it in. 

676
00:38:53,700 --> 00:38:56,900
That would be the evidence that 
would end up in somebody's email

677
00:38:56,900 --> 00:39:00,000
box to say yes there's the right
people or they'd actually 

678
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,700
physically write notes. 
I mean, I know this make it 

679
00:39:02,700 --> 00:39:06,100
sound like a dinosaur. 
That is so essentially what that

680
00:39:06,100 --> 00:39:10,200
was coming from is that what 
we're auditing is not what your 

681
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,000
single sign-on system says that 
if you have access to or your 

682
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,900
IGA system says people have 
access to we're talking about 

683
00:39:17,900 --> 00:39:19,700
that, what the source system 
has. 

684
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:24,400
Now if you can prove to me that 
nobody can access that system, 

685
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,200
unless they go through your 
single sign-on system or that 

686
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,500
the data in your IGA system is 
airtight that nobody could have 

687
00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:35,500
like deleted a few accounts. 
Then okay, maybe I can go with 

688
00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:39,900
that but for the most part we're
trying to get to the system of 

689
00:39:39,900 --> 00:39:42,000
record which is the end point 
system. 

690
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:47,100
And if there's a counts there 
that aren't on your system, you 

691
00:39:47,100 --> 00:39:51,500
know, like service accounts for 
example, the audit has to be 

692
00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:56,300
done a fact data of the data on 
the system, not on your central,

693
00:39:56,300 --> 00:40:02,100
I am system. 
So I don't know that every audit

694
00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:07,000
Department looks at it like, you
know, that Black and white like 

695
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,100
I'm talking about. 
But to me, that's really what 

696
00:40:10,100 --> 00:40:13,500
you're auditing it, what you 
should be auditing is the system

697
00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:18,500
where the data exists. 
Yeah, I'm I'm talking to myself 

698
00:40:18,500 --> 00:40:22,900
because I'm a very long time ago
setting with an auditor and they

699
00:40:22,900 --> 00:40:26,700
were asking me to prove a 
negative show me that this 

700
00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:31,100
account does not exist. 
Okay, I run a search in a duck. 

701
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,800
Not found will do you have any 
proof that that's not found. 

702
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:40,900
Like it's not found it's not 
their me to wait and I had to 

703
00:40:40,900 --> 00:40:43,700
take screenshots of you know it 
was like a sample of like 

704
00:40:43,700 --> 00:40:47,100
onboarding rock whirring since I
got samples 50 people take 

705
00:40:47,100 --> 00:40:50,300
screenshots of 50 searches 
showing that the account is not 

706
00:40:50,300 --> 00:40:52,100
there. 
I always got a chuckle out of 

707
00:40:52,100 --> 00:40:53,900
that. 
That's one of the really laughs.

708
00:40:53,900 --> 00:40:56,300
I were talking to be or not to 
be. 

709
00:40:56,300 --> 00:40:59,500
That is the question. 
Exactly. 

710
00:41:01,100 --> 00:41:04,900
All right, let's get to the last
one on his tweet and that is 

711
00:41:05,100 --> 00:41:08,800
provisioning outside of sale 
Point, third-party apps. 

712
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,100
Your turn to go first. 
Alright, so what I think he's 

713
00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:16,900
getting at here is like what is 
the best practice for handling 

714
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,200
provisioning when you can't 
automate the provisioning. 

715
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,800
So there are is a scenario where
a lot of aij systems have kind 

716
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:33,000
of a ticketing management system
within themselves for the 

717
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:37,400
purposes of creating a ticket to
it administrators to go create 

718
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,500
that access or than they're 
supposed to close that. 

719
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:44,400
It when they are done, you know,
maybe there are, you know, 

720
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,800
posting some evidence that they 
did the work. 

721
00:41:46,900 --> 00:41:50,200
Usually not from what I've seen 
to me. 

722
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:56,700
The best practice is sending 
creating a ticket in the itsm 

723
00:41:56,700 --> 00:41:58,700
system. 
In the reason I say that is 

724
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:03,700
usually when let's say we're 
onboarding somebody, right? 

725
00:42:03,700 --> 00:42:07,800
And they hit six axis is and 
five of them are systems that we

726
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:12,600
ought to meet the 61 Is a system
where it's some Linux 

727
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,900
application and an account needs
to be manually provision. 

728
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:23,500
And so, ultimately, the Linux 
administrator is the person that

729
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,200
is going to have to go and 
create that account and assign 

730
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,600
the entitlements and everything.
They don't only do, you know, 

731
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,500
they're not waiting around for 
these tickets to come through. 

732
00:42:33,500 --> 00:42:37,100
They're doing all kinds of work 
and they manage their work and 

733
00:42:37,100 --> 00:42:41,100
itsm system usually. 
And so when you create a ticket 

734
00:42:41,100 --> 00:42:46,200
for them in their itsm system, 
it gets in there Q with all the 

735
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,100
other work that they have to do 
now in terms of priority and 

736
00:42:49,100 --> 00:42:52,300
might come to the top or go to 
the bottom whatever. 

737
00:42:52,900 --> 00:42:55,700
But to me, that's why you want 
to put it there. 

738
00:42:55,700 --> 00:42:58,300
As like you don't want there to 
be one other place. 

739
00:42:58,300 --> 00:43:01,000
They have to check to see if 
they have work order. 

740
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,000
You know, stack all the work 
that they have to do it. 

741
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,800
Be preferable that they clock, 
all their work in the itsm 

742
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,000
system. 
And that there, I am tests are 

743
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,300
in there as well. 
So I think that's what Chris is 

744
00:43:13,300 --> 00:43:19,100
asking about there. 
Yeah, and I have one spot to go.

745
00:43:19,100 --> 00:43:22,200
I think to have that 
provisioning track makes sense. 

746
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:25,400
I'm not a fan of using the 
built-in ticketing. 

747
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,700
You know, that there were 
process that might be built an 

748
00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:31,000
IG perform unless that's the 
only thing you have. 

749
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,500
I think you're better off 
strategically, who averaging 

750
00:43:33,500 --> 00:43:36,200
whatever your it standard is 
servicenow share. 

751
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,800
Well, freshdesk, you know, 
whatever. 

752
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,800
It might be like that sort of 
approach. 

753
00:43:41,100 --> 00:43:44,100
I think the other thing that I 
will add on to this is it could 

754
00:43:44,100 --> 00:43:46,500
be a scenario where you've got 
the Third-party apps. 

755
00:43:46,500 --> 00:43:48,700
They might be like ass a space 
app and you don't have a 

756
00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:50,800
connection for example, from 
sale point. 

757
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,000
But you could do, is, if you 
have a relatively modern access 

758
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,800
management tool something like 
an OCTA or an Azure is, you 

759
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,700
could leverage them to do the 
provisioning for that third 

760
00:44:01,700 --> 00:44:04,700
party app, maybe it's controlled
the in Active Directory Group, 

761
00:44:04,700 --> 00:44:07,400
or maybe it is a entitlement 
within the octave Universal 

762
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,100
directory or something like 
that. 

763
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,600
You basically stage the account 
into one of those directories 

764
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,700
via sale point and then you let 
the access management tool that 

765
00:44:16,700 --> 00:44:20,800
has probably the appropriate SAS
connector to that app to then 

766
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,200
facilitate the provisioning of 
that through the same process. 

767
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,600
So you're kind of like, chaining
your lifecycle management from 

768
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,000
IGA to the access management 
platform to do that as well. 

769
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:32,300
So that could be an option as 
well. 

770
00:44:33,300 --> 00:44:34,700
Hopefully were inferring some 
content. 

771
00:44:34,700 --> 00:44:37,200
Some of the appropriate context 
out of this from a tweet which 

772
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,700
is always dangerous but we're 
giving it our best. 

773
00:44:40,100 --> 00:44:43,600
Yeah I'm sure Crystal follow-up 
after here's the episode and let

774
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:48,300
us know how much how much we I 
mean, hey, if we 80/20, if we 

775
00:44:48,300 --> 00:44:52,300
got 4 out of 5, I'm happy, yeah,
I'm happy. 

776
00:44:52,300 --> 00:44:55,000
We got half of them, right. 
So I'll set the bar a little bit

777
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,600
lower for us. 
Okay, so I think that really 

778
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,700
kind of covered everything from 
his tweet, which is really cool.

779
00:45:00,700 --> 00:45:03,300
I love to get like stuff like 
this because Jim and I can 

780
00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:05,500
ramble on about anything, but 
we'd rather talk about stuff 

781
00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:07,000
that people actually have 
questions about. 

782
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,000
So thanks Chris for sending that
tweet out. 

783
00:45:10,300 --> 00:45:13,200
If you got questions and you're 
listening, drop them in a tweet.

784
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,600
Sent them to us via LinkedIn. 
We're happy to kind of like I 

785
00:45:15,607 --> 00:45:19,400
said build a show around it. 
Anything you want to bring up 

786
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,500
around anything that we talked 
about so far before we start to 

787
00:45:22,500 --> 00:45:25,000
close things out. 
No, I'm kind of excited to get 

788
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:30,600
into this lighter note, 
question, I actually I had a 

789
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:35,700
because I'm new with my company.
I had an introduction and I was 

790
00:45:35,700 --> 00:45:39,000
supposed to come up with a 
legendary question for everybody

791
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,900
else. 
And yeah, instead what up? 

792
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,900
I messed it up. 
I thought that there should be a

793
00:45:44,900 --> 00:45:47,400
lighter note. 
Question presented to me and I 

794
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,000
was going to answer it. 
So the question I asked the 

795
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,500
group that I came up with on the
Fly, was, what's your favorite 

796
00:45:53,500 --> 00:45:56,900
podcast and you got some really 
good answers. 

797
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,100
Yeah, so for those who missed 
it, Jim and I are working 

798
00:46:01,100 --> 00:46:04,000
together again, both part of our
SMS identity practice. 

799
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,200
So, come seek us out if you need
help with something but yeah, we

800
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,800
have like a think we do. 
When we have people who start, 

801
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,500
they have liked to give like a 
little intrude for themselves. 

802
00:46:13,500 --> 00:46:16,800
And I remember looking at that 
That's line you're working with 

803
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,700
with Ben and it was completely 
blank and he's like, no, you 

804
00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:21,800
were supposed to come up with 
the questions and they're like, 

805
00:46:22,900 --> 00:46:27,400
okay I got it now. 
Fortunately wasn't like a real 

806
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:32,000
Mindbender kind of, if right. 
All right, let's get to the 

807
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,500
lighter note. 
So here's the scenario. 

808
00:46:34,900 --> 00:46:37,000
They're making a movie about 
your life. 

809
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:42,000
Jim What actor would you want to
play you in that movie? 

810
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,700
No, so Jeff, you know, me for a 
little while and you know, that 

811
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,000
one of the things that's 
happened to me since I was a 

812
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:53,700
very young person was, people 
would always say, do you know, 

813
00:46:53,700 --> 00:46:56,900
do you have a twin brother? 
Because you look exactly like 

814
00:46:56,900 --> 00:47:00,700
dot dot dot. 
And based on my different looks 

815
00:47:00,700 --> 00:47:02,300
that I've had throughout my 
life. 

816
00:47:02,300 --> 00:47:05,000
It would change for a while. 
There it was a few different 

817
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,800
looks to, I've only known you 
for seven or eight years at this

818
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,900
point. 
And I know two of those looks I 

819
00:47:10,900 --> 00:47:14,800
changed my look like every I 
have changed my look like every 

820
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,100
two years when I was younger, 
you know, go from long hair or 

821
00:47:18,100 --> 00:47:21,600
short hair, facial hair, no 
facial, hair, different 

822
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:28,400
hairstyles, things like that. 
Anyway, used to be Kid Rock and 

823
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:34,800
then it was Bradley Cooper from 
A Star is Born. 

824
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:40,800
And I've gotten he look like 
Aquaman You know, Jason, Momoa 

825
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:42,900
Samoa. 
Yeah, I don't like that one. 

826
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,200
That what? 
I don't see at all? 

827
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:45,600
I'm sorry. 
Well, I do. 

828
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,700
I like, I feel like, I feel like
even embarrassed saying that 

829
00:47:49,700 --> 00:47:51,500
one, right? 
I like, I'm like, I don't look 

830
00:47:51,500 --> 00:47:55,400
anything like him, but I had at 
least three people say it and I 

831
00:47:55,408 --> 00:47:59,200
think what it is like, you know,
I have longer hair, facial hair 

832
00:47:59,500 --> 00:48:05,200
and I work out and so people are
like, oh yeah, your long haired 

833
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,400
guy, who works out, you look 
like Jason Momoa, that's He's 

834
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:13,000
like, that's how he looks. 
But the most recent one, I got 

835
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,800
was Goldberg and I want I was 
just like, no, I don't, I don't 

836
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,400
see if I, you know, I mean, 
everybody sees what they see 

837
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,900
and, so, anyway, I could see the
Goldberg maybe if you like, 

838
00:48:24,900 --> 00:48:28,200
shaved your head and your beard,
but then I think that kind of 

839
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:29,700
like defeats some of the 
purpose. 

840
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,700
I'm gonna go Jason Momoa though,
even though I don't look like, 

841
00:48:33,700 --> 00:48:36,300
I'm the question was like, who 
would you have play you? 

842
00:48:36,700 --> 00:48:41,000
And I mean, I like that one. 
I'm going with that, I feel like

843
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,600
it's going to be with those 
movies where it's like, why did 

844
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,300
they cast this person? 
Like that person doesn't look 

845
00:48:46,300 --> 00:48:48,200
anything like them. 
And maybe, you know, that's a 

846
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:49,500
that Jason knows on, a great 
actor. 

847
00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:53,400
I enjoy his work, Bubba, blah. 
But I'm just, I'm just not 

848
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:54,300
seeing it, man. 
I'm sorry. 

849
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,100
Yeah, that's okay. 
Sorry. 

850
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,000
I think as far as myself I don't
look like any I don't get 

851
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:02,900
anything like that. 
Like I don't like anybody else. 

852
00:49:02,900 --> 00:49:05,300
I guess we're better for 
something that's good or bad, 

853
00:49:05,300 --> 00:49:09,000
but no one's ever said, hey you 
look like so and so, and I've 

854
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,000
had relatively consistent look 
now for like 30 years. 

855
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,500
I used a long here when I was 
younger, but it's been pretty 

856
00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:20,600
short since my, I guess, early 
early 20s or late teens. 

857
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,600
So, I don't know who would play 
me. 

858
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,800
I would say back in the day, 
maybe somebody like a Tom Cruise

859
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,600
or something like that. 
Just like the the short hair 

860
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,700
from what was it Mission 
Impossible? 

861
00:49:32,700 --> 00:49:34,400
I think would probably have been
like, the probably the closest 

862
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,700
match, but you know, who would I
want to play me? 

863
00:49:37,700 --> 00:49:41,600
I would love to have like Paul 
Rudd or somebody like that or 

864
00:49:42,100 --> 00:49:44,100
Ryan Reynolds I think. 
Both of those guys would be 

865
00:49:44,100 --> 00:49:48,300
amazing in my role but in the 
story that is Jeff and his in 

866
00:49:48,300 --> 00:49:51,200
his life. 
But I don't I don't, I have not 

867
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:55,800
been either fortunate or cursed 
to have somebody say, Hey you 

868
00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:00,000
look like so and so so I'm going
to be positive and say that's a 

869
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,300
good thing but that's just how 
I'm going to read into it. 

870
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:09,100
Yeah, well, I mean, he's, you 
know, when it changes every 

871
00:50:09,100 --> 00:50:10,600
couple of years you're like 
okay. 

872
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,100
Well I guess I can look like 
whoever I want to look like 

873
00:50:13,100 --> 00:50:15,300
then. 
It's true. 

874
00:50:16,300 --> 00:50:19,600
Occasionally, I'll grow the 
facial hair, a little bit out 

875
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,800
for maybe a week or two. 
I'm fortunate, enough to be able

876
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:25,500
to grow a nice beard if I wanted
to, but about two weeks is my 

877
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:27,200
limit before. 
It starts to bother me and it's 

878
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:28,800
ready to go. 
Yeah, you are. 

879
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:34,500
I've always said you've got like
a full beard of 5:00, but so get

880
00:50:34,500 --> 00:50:36,600
this one. 
So, my brother, and I were on 

881
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,200
the cab in New York City, a few 
years back. 

882
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:44,100
And we told the cab driver, Were
brothers. 

883
00:50:44,700 --> 00:50:50,200
And No, I don't see it. 
And it's like, really, why is 

884
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,100
that? 
Well, you have facial hair and 

885
00:50:52,100 --> 00:50:56,500
he doesn't like and you look 
like Jason Momoa and he doesn't 

886
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,600
look like Jason Momoa. 
He looks like Kid Rock. 

887
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,000
Now, I think that's just a 
magic. 

888
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:05,400
It's genetics. 
I mean I have four younger 

889
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,900
brothers and I don't feel like I
look like any of them. 

890
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,700
I think my middle brother. 
Alex is probably the closest 

891
00:51:10,700 --> 00:51:13,800
one, but if you put like, the 
four of us are five of us into a

892
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:18,000
room, I think one person would 
be like oh yeah I can kind of 

893
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,400
see the resemblance but the rest
of us all. 

894
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:20,600
Look different. 
Yeah. 

895
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,000
Well what I was going to say is 
like your one brother. 

896
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,200
Looks like you with glasses on 
then I was thinking, I thought I

897
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:31,200
think the only time I ever see 
him is like a LinkedIn picture 

898
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:35,400
which is about the size of a 
penny, you know. 

899
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:36,900
So I don't really know what he 
looks like. 

900
00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:39,800
I just know he looks. 
It looks like you kind of. 

901
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:44,000
Yeah I think you know Alex I 
have very similar, you know, 

902
00:51:44,100 --> 00:51:46,100
personalities. 
Tris things like that. 

903
00:51:46,100 --> 00:51:48,300
We're definitely probably the 
most similar looking as well. 

904
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,500
Although he has shaved his head,
and I have not yet been that 

905
00:51:51,500 --> 00:51:55,100
that brave to do it. 
So, when he had hair, we 

906
00:51:55,100 --> 00:51:57,600
definitely look a lot closer. 
Well, you have plenty of her, 

907
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:03,000
I'm doing so far so good. 
So we'll ride that wagon as long

908
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:04,700
as we can. 
Yeah, that's right. 

909
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,900
Absolutely. 
Alright, let's go ahead and wrap

910
00:52:07,900 --> 00:52:09,900
it up for this week. 
Chris. 

911
00:52:09,900 --> 00:52:13,300
Hopefully hopefully we covered 
what you're looking for, if not 

912
00:52:13,300 --> 00:52:16,200
I'm sure you'll tweet at us. 
If Got other topics out there. 

913
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:20,000
You're listening, feel free to 
drop them into a tweet at IDC 

914
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,400
podcast or send us a message on 
LinkedIn. 

915
00:52:23,700 --> 00:52:26,800
You will be at Gartner again the
week of August 22nd. 

916
00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:29,600
If you've got a spot that we can
podcast from, so we're not 

917
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,000
homeless podcasters and the 
halls of Gartner, that would be 

918
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,800
great, sync up with us. 
We'd love to try to figure out a

919
00:52:35,808 --> 00:52:37,100
way. 
We can maybe share some space 

920
00:52:37,100 --> 00:52:41,400
with somebody and I think 
that'll do it for us. 

921
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,100
I got one more time centered, I 
got one more thing. 

922
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:50,000
Good news is next week, we're 
going back to having gas now, we

923
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:51,400
don't know. 
Yes, lined up for, like the 

924
00:52:51,408 --> 00:52:53,500
next, you know, few months or 
whatever. 

925
00:52:53,500 --> 00:52:57,300
So it could just, you know, 
works way back to Jim and Geoff,

926
00:52:57,300 --> 00:53:01,200
but there's so much interest in 
being on the show and I don't 

927
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:02,500
think it's going to be that hard
to fill. 

928
00:53:02,500 --> 00:53:05,900
But next week we're going to 
have our friend Robert Snodgrass

929
00:53:05,900 --> 00:53:13,200
on talk about State and 
Municipal I am and citizen I am 

930
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:17,100
so pretty excited about that. 
I'm he's super knowledgeable in 

931
00:53:17,100 --> 00:53:19,400
that area. 
Yeah, for sure. 

932
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,900
That'll be a good one. 
I always hate to put next week 

933
00:53:22,900 --> 00:53:24,800
because we never know what the 
schedule will put out there. 

934
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,100
But if it's not next week, it'll
be an upcoming. 

935
00:53:27,100 --> 00:53:29,700
I'm so so that's how that's how 
I will copy out that. 

936
00:53:29,700 --> 00:53:31,200
How about that? 
I'm good with that. 

937
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,800
That's your ass trick. 
Yeah, it's coming. 

938
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:35,400
It's coming up. 
We're just working on 

939
00:53:35,700 --> 00:53:37,300
calendaring and scheduling. 
All the good stuff. 

940
00:53:37,900 --> 00:53:39,000
All right. 
We're going to leave it there. 

941
00:53:39,100 --> 00:53:41,000
We're on the web identity at the
center.com. 

942
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,600
We're on Twitter at idac 
podcasts. 

943
00:53:43,900 --> 00:53:46,900
If you'll be at Gartner ping us.
We'd love to do a fist bump or 

944
00:53:46,900 --> 00:53:49,100
something. 
And with that, Go ahead and 

945
00:53:49,100 --> 00:53:51,800
leave it for this week. 
Thanks all for listening and 

946
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:53,400
we'll talk with you all in the 
next one. 

947
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,700
Thanks for listening to the 
identity at the center podcast. 

948
00:53:59,700 --> 00:54:02,100
If you like what you heard, 
don't forget to subscribe and 

949
00:54:02,100 --> 00:54:05,200
visit us on the web and identity
at the center.com.