1 00:00:09,700 --> 00:00:13,000 You're listening to the identity of the center podcast, this is 2 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,600 the show that talks about identity and access management 3 00:00:15,700 --> 00:00:18,600 and making sure you know who has access to what let's get 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:26,400 started. Welcome to the identity of the 5 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:27,600 center podcast. I'm Jeff. 6 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:28,700 And that's Jim. Hey, Jim. 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,200 Hey, Jeff, how are you? Oh, not so bad yourself. 8 00:00:31,300 --> 00:00:36,600 It's going fantastic here. A doctor octane. 22 in San 9 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,000 Francisco, California. And in the recording booth, 10 00:00:40,300 --> 00:00:42,700 which is fantastic. It is, and the rain has 11 00:00:42,700 --> 00:00:44,600 subsided. So today's been a nice nice, 12 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:46,400 casual walk over. At least, I don't know. 13 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,900 Actually, maybe the rain has inspired haven't seen the 14 00:00:48,900 --> 00:00:52,500 sunlight since about 8 a.m. but yes, definitely, thanks doctor 15 00:00:52,500 --> 00:00:54,600 for their support, you know, giving a spot to record Thanks 16 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,100 to our SM, obviously, for funding, our travel out here and 17 00:00:57,100 --> 00:00:59,700 making this all possible enough with the kind of the 18 00:00:59,708 --> 00:01:02,800 commercials, we are at Octane 22. 19 00:01:03,300 --> 00:01:05,800 We've been having lots of great conversations with folks here, 20 00:01:06,100 --> 00:01:08,300 we've got another one, great, another great, one lined up 21 00:01:08,300 --> 00:01:10,600 here, with Matt Vesak. He's the VP of product with 22 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:12,200 champ. Welcome to the show, man. 23 00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:14,400 Hey guys, thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks so much for taking 24 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,800 the time and this is the first time you've been on the podcast 25 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:17,900 with us. So we've got this sort of 26 00:01:17,908 --> 00:01:21,900 traditional question and that is how did you get into this space 27 00:01:21,900 --> 00:01:24,300 of identity? And you know is it something? 28 00:01:24,300 --> 00:01:27,000 Thing that you chose or did it choose you? 29 00:01:27,300 --> 00:01:29,700 Yeah so identity definitely found me. 30 00:01:29,700 --> 00:01:33,200 I came from a place of device management, Mobile Security, 31 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,500 application programming and you know one of the things that got 32 00:01:37,500 --> 00:01:40,600 me into identity was the realization of how to determine 33 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,700 a managed device from an unmanaged device and if that 34 00:01:44,700 --> 00:01:48,000 user is using a managed device or not, and one of the first 35 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,100 things we realized, well, you know, how can we Bridge an 36 00:01:51,100 --> 00:01:53,800 identity to a device and my tie those things together? 37 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,200 So that Can have what's now kind of amounted to zero trust 38 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,700 principles like solving that problem. 39 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,100 Early was something that we were after Ann actually here at OCTA 40 00:02:03,100 --> 00:02:06,900 octane. 2019 was where I kind of got a lot of inspiration for 41 00:02:06,900 --> 00:02:10,000 some of those ideas and actually this conference crushed, the 42 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,800 initial idea that we had and ultimately evolved into some 43 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,400 better solutions that we ended up thinking through making. 44 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,600 So it was a learning experience. It was a learning experience. 45 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,500 Yeah. Eye-opening and soul-crushing at 46 00:02:21,500 --> 00:02:24,500 the same time. So I am a fan of jam for a Of 47 00:02:24,500 --> 00:02:28,400 reasons mostly personal selfish regions because anything that 48 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:33,100 makes it easier for Max and Mac OS in general to be more 49 00:02:33,100 --> 00:02:36,200 prevalent in an Enterprise. That is mostly dominated by 50 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,200 windows at this point, right? Is good. 51 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,200 For those who aren't familiar with jams, give us like the 3060 52 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,900 seconds, sort of what is Jeff do and what are the problems that 53 00:02:46,900 --> 00:02:51,500 they're looking to solve? Yeah so jams primary business 54 00:02:51,500 --> 00:02:55,000 for the last 20 years has been just that making Manageable. 55 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,100 So they could work in the Enterprise or in schools and, 56 00:02:59,100 --> 00:03:03,800 you know, organizations the challenge has always been that 57 00:03:03,900 --> 00:03:07,900 apple is a consumer company. They focus on endpoint, you 58 00:03:07,900 --> 00:03:10,800 know, and user experience and they kind of keep it is the 59 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,200 second you know player in that equation. 60 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,200 So Apple has though created a lot of Frameworks and stuff that 61 00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:22,600 providers like jam can adopt to make those devices manageable at 62 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:27,000 scale and so Kind of what we say is we take, we're Apple leaves 63 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,900 off when it comes to enabling these things and bridge the gap 64 00:03:30,900 --> 00:03:34,400 to where businesses and Enterprises like need for those 65 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,500 devices to operate within a Windows world and you know, need 66 00:03:38,500 --> 00:03:40,400 all the security and management requirements. 67 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,800 So side question here, how I guess how much of a partner is 68 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,000 Apple in this and helping you get your products out there? 69 00:03:49,300 --> 00:03:51,600 Like I hope they have to be aware of it, right? 70 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,600 Do do they help? Do they assist and they've kind 71 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,400 of drawn the line or is it something where it's made like a 72 00:03:56,408 --> 00:03:59,500 frenemy situation, you know what is what does it look like, you 73 00:03:59,500 --> 00:04:01,700 know, from your perspective? Know, so we're really well 74 00:04:01,700 --> 00:04:06,800 aligned with apple. I mean we have a long history of 75 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:08,400 working with them. We adopted. 76 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,700 We were one of the first to adopt mobile device management. 77 00:04:10,900 --> 00:04:13,700 Originally fun, fact, you know, we were originally of all about 78 00:04:13,700 --> 00:04:18,899 like, mac Imaging but as Apple introduced to MDM, you know, we 79 00:04:18,899 --> 00:04:22,300 saw that as the future and we adopted that first and we gave a 80 00:04:22,308 --> 00:04:24,000 lot of feedback to Apple, and that kind of, really 81 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:25,800 kick-started the relationship from that point. 82 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,700 So we have as good of a relationship as you can with 83 00:04:28,700 --> 00:04:32,200 apple, apple has a very secretive kind of way of 84 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,900 working, which is no different at the Enterprise level. 85 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,200 So we have our relationships with them and we're able to do 86 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:39,800 what we can. But, you know, we don't get 87 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,300 roadmap visibility. It's a lot of reading tea leaves 88 00:04:42,300 --> 00:04:44,700 and those sort of things, but when you're aligned closely with 89 00:04:44,700 --> 00:04:47,300 apple, you kind of have a better idea of where things are headed 90 00:04:47,300 --> 00:04:51,000 and you can move that way. So you've got a cool title VP of 91 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,500 product, which, you know, depending on your Viewpoint. 92 00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:57,700 Could be sounds really awesome. I immediately, maybe I'll take a 93 00:04:57,707 --> 00:04:59,300 little darker place. I think of, you know, Breaking 94 00:04:59,300 --> 00:05:00,900 Bad. If your product. 95 00:05:02,100 --> 00:05:05,600 What is a VP of product do? Like what is your day look like. 96 00:05:05,900 --> 00:05:09,400 Yeah so VP of product and I'm specifically VP of product for 97 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,100 our security division, okay? There's a division that is 98 00:05:12,100 --> 00:05:14,400 management. So security is everything we 99 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:19,500 deliver with identity and access ztn a and kind of our security 100 00:05:19,500 --> 00:05:21,900 stack. We have the management VP who is 101 00:05:21,900 --> 00:05:24,800 responsible for Jim projet. Now, some of our, the, the 102 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,100 traditional management stuff. So my role is to really look at 103 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,500 how we have established our customer base with these decades 104 00:05:33,500 --> 00:05:36,700 long as of relationships with device management and understand 105 00:05:36,700 --> 00:05:40,400 how we can leverage that Apple device management. 106 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,000 Footprint to be able to offer more Security Services up the 107 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,400 stack because as Jim we're not going to move across the stack 108 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,800 where we're going to start to like dude, Windows management, 109 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,200 for example. So our option is to go up the 110 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,200 stack where, you know, now we need to think about how do we 111 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,600 bring identity to the platform? How do we bring in Point 112 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,600 Security and networking? And how do we provide a great 113 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,200 user experience around all that? That's what we say like apple 114 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,300 consumer-friendly, but, you know, suitable for energy 115 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,700 security teams and it teams to be able. 116 00:06:10,900 --> 00:06:15,100 Manage the whole solution. So my role is to really identify 117 00:06:15,100 --> 00:06:17,600 those opportunities. Make sure it aligns with whether 118 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,200 the market is headed, where our customers heads are at and then 119 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,000 enabling our sales team and marketing team to go out and 120 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,900 talk to that while also managing a team that actually executes on 121 00:06:27,900 --> 00:06:30,400 the roadmap and builds those things. 122 00:06:30,900 --> 00:06:34,400 We're going to talk about one of the sausage you just had last 123 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:35,600 night. Actually, that was really good, 124 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,100 but I'm curious from a like, a product roadmap perspective as 125 00:06:39,100 --> 00:06:41,200 you think about it from like, okay, what are the us' or 126 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:46,300 capabilities that we're going to offer, I guess, where does that 127 00:06:46,300 --> 00:06:48,200 inspiration come from? You know, there's things like 128 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,800 pass keys and Fido Alliance, which were very good friends 129 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,000 with and yes, have been part of that, you know, kind of Arena. 130 00:06:54,300 --> 00:06:57,000 I would imagine customers are probably coming to you asking 131 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,900 for. Hey, can we do this? 132 00:06:59,700 --> 00:07:01,800 I guess where, you know, where else does inspirational? 133 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:06,200 Because I would imagine you can't just be, you know, on on 134 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,200 Pace you need to be thinking ahead like that's very easy 135 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,000 industry going and Dissipating with those things are. 136 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,800 I guess it seems to make us very much a challenge, especially 137 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,600 considering how often things changed. 138 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,600 Yeah. And it and identity and specific 139 00:07:18,900 --> 00:07:20,900 other are there any things you can kind of point to that would 140 00:07:20,900 --> 00:07:22,300 help kind of bring that into context? 141 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:27,700 Yeah I mean so our very first, real identity product was Jam 142 00:07:27,700 --> 00:07:31,500 connect and that was filling. A need that directly to your 143 00:07:31,500 --> 00:07:33,000 point. Directly from customers 144 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,200 customers were saying, hey I have a I don't want to do 80 145 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:40,100 binding for my Mac and I really have no way to create local 146 00:07:40,100 --> 00:07:42,300 Accounts at Scale with passwords and sink. 147 00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:46,100 So we just, it was purely listening from customers and 148 00:07:46,100 --> 00:07:48,400 actually an open source project called Nomad, you probably heard 149 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,600 about that back in the day, we acquired that and turn that into 150 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,000 Jam connect and made it into what it is today. 151 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,600 And that was filling that gap of bringing identity to the Mac. 152 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,100 Now, what I talked about yesterday and where we're 153 00:08:00,100 --> 00:08:03,800 headed, Apple has realized. Well, that's a gap worth filling 154 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,100 because we built a whole product around here. 155 00:08:05,100 --> 00:08:08,100 We've got a bunch of customers. So why not actually like build 156 00:08:08,100 --> 00:08:10,600 that into the platform? And oh, by the way, Microsoft's, 157 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,300 Doing this for quite some time, too. 158 00:08:12,300 --> 00:08:15,700 And there's probably some reason why Microsoft still has such a 159 00:08:15,707 --> 00:08:19,000 footprint because they have identity built into everything 160 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,900 that they do on their platform and windows. 161 00:08:21,100 --> 00:08:23,500 So, Apple's response is everything that they've 162 00:08:23,500 --> 00:08:25,800 announced this year. So platform, single sign-on for 163 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,200 instance, is designed to solve a lot of those problems and 164 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,299 actually bring identity to the to the platform. 165 00:08:32,299 --> 00:08:36,799 And the really interesting thing is, you know, this apple gave 166 00:08:36,799 --> 00:08:39,100 some hints about this a few years ago with a single sign-on 167 00:08:39,100 --> 00:08:41,299 extension. It's enables Al's you know 168 00:08:41,299 --> 00:08:45,300 identity providers like OCTA and Microsoft to figure out or to be 169 00:08:45,300 --> 00:08:48,100 able to deliver these kind of Fido. 170 00:08:48,100 --> 00:08:50,700 We're both ends password list sort of experiences using the 171 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:53,000 secure enclave and and fingerprint sensor and those 172 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:58,600 sort of things on these devices. But what they were missing was 173 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,800 that deeper integration into the actual OS. 174 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,500 That was just kind of out that but application Level. 175 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:05,600 So now what they've been doing is they've been with these 176 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,000 announcements, they've really made it. 177 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,700 So that your first touch point with when you unlock your Mac or 178 00:09:09,700 --> 00:09:12,600 log into your Mac. That is actually making it 179 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,700 really easy to enjoy those password list and single sign-on 180 00:09:16,700 --> 00:09:19,700 and secure, Enclave, back and biometric backed experiences. 181 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,000 Once you start using applications on the device so 182 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,200 mad, I won't talk a little bit about the jam Jam fans to 183 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,400 company give a number of products. 184 00:09:29,700 --> 00:09:32,700 You also solve a couple of different use cases, right? 185 00:09:32,700 --> 00:09:36,200 So why don't we start there with what are the major use cases? 186 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,000 Then give us an idea of like the product landscape because I 187 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:43,000 heard you mention several products and I don't know how 188 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,700 they fit into the big picture. I'm assuming you ins like a 189 00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:49,800 management project product and things like that and it sounds 190 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,600 like there's a secure Enclave product. 191 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:58,000 But, you know, maybe you should just educate us listeners and 192 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,300 practitioners on what yeah, what the pieces and parts are and 193 00:10:01,300 --> 00:10:03,400 maybe start with the use cases. Yeah. 194 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,100 So most people know us Forge a 0 and the use case around that is 195 00:10:07,100 --> 00:10:11,400 Apple device management. Its I have these iOS Or Mac OS 196 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,000 devices or iPads and Apple TVs. And I need to make sure that I'm 197 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,400 able to keep track of them. Wipe them deploy Wi-Fi. 198 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,500 Deploy apps. Make sure there's not, there are 199 00:10:21,500 --> 00:10:25,700 vulnerable like, just very basic, like MDM functions and 200 00:10:25,900 --> 00:10:29,700 kind of even if you have MDM for, you know, your windows to 201 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,000 your Microsoft device is you still would want to use Jam 202 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,000 because it's like more feature-rich and the idea. 203 00:10:36,100 --> 00:10:38,700 Yeah, so it's an interesting question because, you know, you 204 00:10:38,700 --> 00:10:41,400 would think that you EMS like, you know, you Unified endpoint 205 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,200 management tools like in tune would win the day but Mac is 206 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,800 such a unique Beast that it allowed us to build a 207 00:10:48,808 --> 00:10:52,000 best-of-breed product that even was able to survive in spite of 208 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,700 you EMS. And in fact, Microsoft like does 209 00:10:54,700 --> 00:10:56,500 what's called co-management with us. 210 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,800 So, you know, it's Microsoft Azure ID and some in tune 211 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,600 capabilities as well as our champ Pro and point agent and 212 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,200 MBM. So that's what we're known for. 213 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,900 That's where we've really kind of established ourselves over 214 00:11:09,900 --> 00:11:12,400 the last again. Like Decades is what most people 215 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,700 know us for now, kind of alluded to it earlier. 216 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,000 We've had the option, you know, as we as we're now a public 217 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,600 company, we need to continue to grow. 218 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:25,100 We need to do more and more. So you know, an MDM and device 219 00:11:25,100 --> 00:11:27,900 management only can do so much where we were, you know, going 220 00:11:27,900 --> 00:11:31,100 into a lot of more markets where in all sorts of areas. 221 00:11:31,100 --> 00:11:33,500 But you know, the idea is like, if we're not going to go build 222 00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:36,100 an Android or we're not gonna be coming to uem because we really 223 00:11:36,100 --> 00:11:38,100 want to focus on that Apple experience. 224 00:11:38,100 --> 00:11:40,200 We think it's such a differentiated platform. 225 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,500 There's so much Which future opportunities to it, that it 226 00:11:42,500 --> 00:11:45,400 makes sense to lean into that. So that's why we're leaning into 227 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,700 these other technologies that go up the stack. 228 00:11:47,700 --> 00:11:50,200 So Jeff connect was the other thing that a lot of our 229 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,000 customers know us, for which is where we brought identity to the 230 00:11:54,008 --> 00:11:58,000 Mac where the main use case is, I got this brand new Mac out of 231 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,400 the box. The default behavior is, hey, 232 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,300 welcome like create a new user account, local account, local 233 00:12:05,300 --> 00:12:08,300 account. Let me go ahead and come up with 234 00:12:08,300 --> 00:12:10,600 any random user name. Oh, and any random. 235 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,600 And maybe make it a sad and it's going to have admin rights and 236 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:15,900 must be, at least 4 characters. Yeah. 237 00:12:15,900 --> 00:12:18,100 If it even has that. Yeah, and, you know, we we solve 238 00:12:18,100 --> 00:12:21,100 this thing with out-of-the-box Device, enrollment, so, Jan Pro, 239 00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:23,300 and Apple provide out of the box device enrollment. 240 00:12:23,300 --> 00:12:26,800 So that Mac out-of-the-box use the serial number to provision 241 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,100 itself, into your MDM in our case, Jeff Pro, right? 242 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,500 Wonderful has nothing to do with the actual user account that 243 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,500 it's crazy. You could do some configurations 244 00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:38,900 around what that's supposed to look like, but all of our 245 00:12:38,900 --> 00:12:42,100 customers have said like that is Insufficient for what we need. 246 00:12:42,500 --> 00:12:45,600 So champ connect is designed to do this kind of just in time, 247 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,300 local account, provisioning, with your identity provider of 248 00:12:49,300 --> 00:12:51,600 choice. And it keeps the passwords in 249 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,300 sync between the IDP. You can do things like audit log 250 00:12:55,300 --> 00:12:58,500 ins to the Mac, your identity provider because it's using like 251 00:12:58,500 --> 00:13:00,400 all the web views and all that other sort of fun stuff. 252 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,800 So it's delivering some of this modern authentication capability 253 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,600 onto Mac OS. And so, we were kind of the 254 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,500 first to do a lot of that. And as we move further up this, 255 00:13:10,700 --> 00:13:12,300 Back. We then also added things like 256 00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:14,900 endpoint security. So being able to do things like 257 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,800 looking for malware or risky, Behavior or devices that are 258 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,600 straight out of compliance, is one of the things that we do and 259 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,600 then on the networking, even further up the stack, we have a 260 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,500 zero, trust network, access solution, that is highly 261 00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:31,500 identity-based, we require that a user authenticates, whether 262 00:13:31,500 --> 00:13:33,700 identity provider of choice again. 263 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,200 And then we use that identity to, you know, determine what 264 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:38,900 access users should have access to. 265 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:40,500 And well, again, we built the whole solution. 266 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,600 Lucien around this idea that vpns traditionally suck. 267 00:13:43,700 --> 00:13:46,900 And so we want something that is well uses. 268 00:13:46,900 --> 00:13:49,800 The VPN framework, it's using wire guard behind the scenes, so 269 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,800 it's super fast and it just takes a lot away. 270 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,000 A lot of that that pain of trying to manage private public, 271 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,000 private key pairs, you know manually. 272 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,800 We just kind of wrap identity around that put policies around 273 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:00,800 it and we get this full stack experience. 274 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,600 Let me ask about the wire guard because at Peak my my brain a 275 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,000 little bit, it's a newer protocol for security and I 276 00:14:07,008 --> 00:14:10,600 think there's some times incompatibility issues that I 277 00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:13,300 With Hotel routers yet Hotel Wi-Fi. 278 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,400 I'm assuming I'm sort of like fallback plan. 279 00:14:15,700 --> 00:14:19,200 Yeah, we did a great. Yeah, so it is an area where we 280 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,100 are expanding on. Some of those compatibility 281 00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:24,800 things like captive portal networks on airplanes are the 282 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,400 bane of my existence because, you know, you're supposed, 283 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,300 there's a whisper protocol that's supposed to let the OS is 284 00:14:31,300 --> 00:14:34,100 allows you to, like gracefully handle the situation where 285 00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:37,700 there's not a default gateway, but we've just found a lot of 286 00:14:37,700 --> 00:14:41,000 these captive portal. Networks actually buy I passed 287 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,800 that detection and intentionally continue on and cause problems. 288 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,600 I am to the point where I have captive to apple.com as a 289 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:53,200 bookmark toolbar because I run in this problem so often so you 290 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:54,700 know exactly what I'm talking about. 291 00:14:54,700 --> 00:14:57,400 Yeah, so, we're working on ways to improve that but that is, 292 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,500 that is one of the challenges of wire guard. 293 00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:03,400 So, I heard you mention a couple of other things in your 294 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,000 presentation. I don't think they're chapped 295 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,300 products, but one must fast pass. 296 00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:10,500 And then, I know that the other is not yours is passkeys, right? 297 00:15:10,700 --> 00:15:14,000 Maybe talk a little bit about those and how they fit into what 298 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,200 you're doing. Yeah, so many passes. 299 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,500 So, yeah. So octave Fastpass is an octave 300 00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:24,700 technology that is acht has implementation of apples single. 301 00:15:24,700 --> 00:15:28,800 Sign-on extension, on Apple platforms now, on Windows, they 302 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:33,400 use other Technologies but they have OCTA fast. 303 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,700 Pass is the wrapping of the password list Technologies and 304 00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:40,000 secure Enclave based Technologies available on 305 00:15:40,100 --> 00:15:42,200 Windows. Hello, for instance, but also 306 00:15:42,300 --> 00:15:46,000 all the secure Enclave Tech on Apple Technologies. 307 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,800 It's the wrapping of that so that you can have these password 308 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:54,500 list biometric web often based experiences using the octave 309 00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:58,200 verify application and so there's fast pass. 310 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,500 Then there's pass Keys which are also web authentic credentials. 311 00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:04,500 Now, they're not necessarily the same thing. 312 00:16:04,700 --> 00:16:09,600 Octaves using their own kind of proprietary mechanisms to do you 313 00:16:09,608 --> 00:16:12,100 know for their credentials. You know, how to make fast pass 314 00:16:12,100 --> 00:16:16,900 work but you could use web often and other, you know, and and 315 00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:21,500 passkeys as a way of doing, you know, additional step up with 316 00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:24,000 medication or other sort of authentication. 317 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,500 I want to preface this next question by saying, I love 318 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,500 MacBook Pros and MacBook airs and you know basically the Apple 319 00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:39,300 products but from a security standpoint, I wonder you know, 320 00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:43,500 why wouldn't I A seesaw or CIO just want to have like a 321 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:45,100 Windows. Only environment. 322 00:16:45,100 --> 00:16:49,700 Wouldn't that make it much easier for them is it that they, 323 00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:54,800 they have to do the the MacBooks or can actually be just a secure 324 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,300 more secure than the windows environment. 325 00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:01,500 Yeah. So we get this question a lot as 326 00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:04,200 you can imagine being focused on Apple devices and Enterprise. 327 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,500 So, you know, there's been this kind of natural growth where 328 00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:10,400 you've had creatives and certain business units and certain job. 329 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:16,599 Really focus on Apple and insist on Apple and those. 330 00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:19,200 And you know, the security team said, well fine. 331 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,099 If you're going to support that, we need some sort of device 332 00:17:21,099 --> 00:17:23,200 management. So you know, there's been this 333 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,400 kind of natural attached of a services like jam Pro and device 334 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,100 management to those Max. But what's been missing has been 335 00:17:31,100 --> 00:17:33,800 again higher up on the stack like how are you making a great 336 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,900 experience with networking? And how are you able to make 337 00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:40,200 sure that the endpoint is secure from threat and the Frameworks 338 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,500 and the Ecosystem, the Technologies haven't just 339 00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:45,000 necessarily been there when where they have been, it's been 340 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,800 taking Windows Technologies and just kind of dumping them on Mac 341 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,100 and you you don't get a great experience and also you've had 342 00:17:51,100 --> 00:17:53,900 the cost element of it like Windows have always been like 343 00:17:54,300 --> 00:17:56,500 PCS have just been cheap, like they've been a lot cheaper. 344 00:17:56,500 --> 00:18:00,200 The so when it comes to the actual purchase price, it's been 345 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,500 cheaper to do that now, you introduce things like the 346 00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:05,300 MacBook Air with the M2 processor, where you're getting 347 00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:08,000 a lot of bang for your buck. That's definitely starting to 348 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,400 change the game and from a support abilities. 349 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,800 I'm Point as you have mobile device management as you have 350 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,900 integrated identity coming along as you have Securities 351 00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:20,200 Frameworks and all these pieces that have been missing for the 352 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:21,700 sea. So, to look at the platform and 353 00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:24,000 say, oh, that's the mature, enterprise-grade platform. 354 00:18:24,100 --> 00:18:27,800 Those are all finally starting to come together and we see 355 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,900 things like ought to Fastpass and our MDMA, you know, champ 356 00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:35,400 row and all of these kind of components come together to make 357 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:40,800 it actually possible. So if we have, you know, all the 358 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,100 tools in place for both platforms to have feature 359 00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:46,000 parity, right? When it comes to security. 360 00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:50,700 I think there was relatively famously IBM, I think it was did 361 00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:53,400 some sort of like study like seems like it was five years 362 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:54,500 ago. Could be ten, I don't know. 363 00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:58,200 Time doesn't mean anything anymore where they found, it was 364 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:04,400 actually cheaper for them to run a Mac as a standard device 365 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,300 because there was probably a higher upfront cost of the time 366 00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:09,200 because it's what I'm pretty Apple silicon. 367 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:17,400 But less challenges around support Hardware failures Etc. 368 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:19,700 But I think one of the things they did call out was they had 369 00:19:19,700 --> 00:19:23,300 to have a very good strategy from a security standpoint to 370 00:19:23,300 --> 00:19:25,400 make sure that you just these devices were enrolled. 371 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,100 And I guess the skeptic in me looks at this and says, okay, 372 00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:32,300 well I've got Windows, I've got some portion of my user base 373 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,900 that wants to use a Mac. I already have Windows sort of 374 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,400 MDM Licensing in tune through my Microsoft 365. 375 00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:43,700 And now there's this extra expense that I need to go to to 376 00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:45,800 adjust to support the Mac population. 377 00:19:46,300 --> 00:19:49,100 And I think that turns off a lot of folks who are like, okay, I 378 00:19:49,100 --> 00:19:51,300 would love to do it, but there's a cost associated with all this 379 00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:53,500 stuff. Are there things that we should 380 00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:58,100 be thinking about in the, I am world to better support, our Mac 381 00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:01,100 brothers and sisters out there of which I am one of your own. 382 00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:05,700 I do both right if I'm equal opportunity but I do find that, 383 00:20:05,700 --> 00:20:09,400 you know, financially speaking. There is an extra cost today to 384 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,400 support the mac and why It and I don't know what the right 385 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,800 messaging is to get out in front of folks, and say, yes, there is 386 00:20:16,100 --> 00:20:19,900 or its comparable, or maybe there's some other sort of 387 00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:21,000 benefit to say. Yeah. 388 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,600 We should have something like jam fright, to solve all these 389 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,500 other issues. Yeah, yeah. 390 00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:30,300 So, I mean, a big part of it is you also, you know, some of the 391 00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:31,400 other trends that have happened to. 392 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,400 So again, pricing is becoming more comparable, so the actual 393 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,100 asset is becoming less of a huge different. 394 00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:39,300 I mean, it used to be the employee Choice when you would 395 00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:41,600 choose to do a Mac. You It like a MacBook Pro which 396 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,700 was like starting 2,800 dollars or something like that versus a 397 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,900 $900 Lenovo or something. And so it was just apples and 398 00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:50,900 oranges when I came to a price comparison. 399 00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:54,500 But again that's why the Silicon thing is such a kind of a 400 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:56,900 game-changer a big piece of it but there's a ton of other 401 00:20:56,900 --> 00:21:00,900 elements in play you have, you know, employees with a, you 402 00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:04,200 know, the younger Generations that are used to iPhones and 403 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,700 east of the Apple experiences and they're going to want to 404 00:21:06,700 --> 00:21:10,900 have, you know, device choice. And having a Mac option is That 405 00:21:10,900 --> 00:21:13,900 increasingly to pull the right, you know, the full top talent, 406 00:21:13,900 --> 00:21:16,000 they're going to want to have the choice to have a Windows or 407 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,300 Mac device just throwing them with a Windows. 408 00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:20,800 You're going to get a lot of opinionated users as we go 409 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,300 along. Also on the application stack. 410 00:21:23,300 --> 00:21:26,500 You know, a lot of traditionally Windows a lot of like that 411 00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:29,600 Windows applications only run on Windows but now increasingly 412 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,100 everything's moved in the cloud in browsers or native apps that 413 00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:34,500 are just wrapped in a lot of cases. 414 00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:37,600 So you have this, you have this situation where the actual 415 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,300 platform the OS that's running because less of a Of a hindrance 416 00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:44,600 to being able to adopt. So I think all those Trends are 417 00:21:44,608 --> 00:21:47,300 coming together to make it so. Well, if you care about user 418 00:21:47,300 --> 00:21:50,500 experience and yes you're not going to buy just one Microsoft 419 00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:53,400 license and get everything. But if you care about user 420 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,500 experience and productivity and you know, and you to your 421 00:21:56,500 --> 00:21:58,100 question about identity, what can we do? 422 00:21:58,300 --> 00:22:01,400 Just integrating with the native Apple Frameworks whenever you're 423 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,600 building applications or you are you just sticking to Modern off 424 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,300 like as much as you can, let's just going to automatically 425 00:22:08,300 --> 00:22:11,700 unlock these excellent you. Experience Frameworks because 426 00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:15,800 apples investing in the underlying identity layers that 427 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:20,000 as long as you as developers, create enrollment at are like 428 00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:22,500 side and experiences that leverage the native Frameworks. 429 00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:24,600 You're going to get 2 benefit in the Enterprise world. 430 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,100 All these great innovations that are enabled by OCTA for 431 00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:32,200 instance, or other identity, providers, as part of that, 432 00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:36,400 yeah, wanted to ask one. Other question is, I'm trying to 433 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,300 get a sense for what is the approach that you see? 434 00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:43,200 Most companies taking, what's where's the trend? 435 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:49,300 Is it that they're allowing Max where they just traditionally 436 00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:54,700 outshine PCS like in desktop publishing and on the developer 437 00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:58,500 side, or do you see more organizations moving toward? 438 00:22:58,500 --> 00:23:02,600 Hey, we're a Mac shop. And then I've worked for a 439 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,700 smaller company where it was BYOD, including right. 440 00:23:06,700 --> 00:23:08,800 The Jeff's up. So it was like, hey, you've got 441 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,900 a stipend of 2,000 or 3,000 every couple of years. 442 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,300 You can go out and buy your own device but we're going to manage 443 00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:19,800 it, right? Is that a trend that you're 444 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,000 seeing more overall? What's the landscape out there? 445 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,500 Yeah, overall the landscape today is you have pretty much 446 00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:31,500 every sized organization. Has some portion of Max, whether 447 00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:34,800 that's a hundred percent, 90 percent, 5 percent, 10 percent 448 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,300 really varies bound, the industry upon, you know, the 449 00:23:37,300 --> 00:23:40,000 size of the company and like what sort of work they do, and 450 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,600 what they're working. Workforce prizes of and also 451 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,800 who's running 90 and how they think about their endpoint 452 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,600 experiences and where they focus on and stuff like that. 453 00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:50,700 So today, it's a little bit all over the place. 454 00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:53,400 But again, we are seeing that that point earlier about the 455 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,200 employee, that device Choice programs have been kind of 456 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,600 skewed towards more expensive, like it's a premium theme for a 457 00:23:59,608 --> 00:24:01,800 Mac. So we are definitely seeing the 458 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:09,100 trends of Max becoming a more open option for employees choose 459 00:24:09,100 --> 00:24:11,900 between like, you know, he's Just reserved for certain like 460 00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:14,100 job roles. But now, you know, more and more 461 00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:16,400 companies, especially the larger larger ones are saying, well, 462 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,400 you know, we can put a Mac right there next to the Windows 463 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,000 machine, when you're choosing. But very few are saying, You 464 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,100 must have a Windows or you must have a Mac because again to the 465 00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:28,400 point of employee choice and be most productive on the platform, 466 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,000 you enjoy is important. And like what we're trying to do 467 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,100 on the jam side is again, make that consumer experience real on 468 00:24:35,100 --> 00:24:37,700 that that Mac device. So when you are presented with a 469 00:24:37,708 --> 00:24:39,700 choice, it's something you're familiar with. 470 00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:41,500 It's easy to use. Use the text stays out of the 471 00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:42,900 way. It's just there. 472 00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:45,300 Your point about byos really interesting. 473 00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:48,700 We're seeing a bit of a relative Revolution right now for BYOD 474 00:24:49,700 --> 00:24:52,200 because Apple has this thing called user enrollment which is 475 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,200 this really light weight management Paradigm where you 476 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,600 effectively create an encrypted part in encrypted partition on 477 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,700 the device that's separate from all your personal apps 478 00:24:59,900 --> 00:25:02,400 management can only work in that encrypted partition. 479 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,000 It cannot see anything happening outside of that. 480 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,600 It doesn't know what other apps you have installed. 481 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:07,900 Doesn't know what sites you're going to. 482 00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:10,300 It literally has no way to do that if they wanted to. 483 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,200 It's private by Design is how Apple built it. 484 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,900 So that is currently starting to really kind of make some waves 485 00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:21,400 on the mobile side of the world. So iOS iPhones and iPads you 486 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,500 know, and watch the space for byop see or BYO Mac. 487 00:25:24,500 --> 00:25:26,900 You know, the idea of bringing your own Mac is really 488 00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:30,800 interesting powered by identity, is I in those identity 489 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,000 experiences of like how you identify, you know, which 490 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,900 applications belong to the organization and which ones are 491 00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:40,300 personal, and how do you enroll that that personal? 492 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,500 It into an organizational xiety framework that has the right 493 00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:46,500 amount of privacy and security baked in. 494 00:25:47,100 --> 00:25:48,700 It's a lot harder to do on a Mac. 495 00:25:48,700 --> 00:25:52,700 Given the way that the OS is built, whereas iOS is a lot more 496 00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:54,600 sandbox to Nature. You have a little bit more 497 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,100 control so but yeah watch that space. 498 00:25:58,100 --> 00:25:59,000 It's going to be very interesting. 499 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,200 I think see what happens next couple years so this has been a 500 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,200 very Apple discussion. Yeah yeah but I'm a fan because 501 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,700 I could talk this this stuff all day and I'm sure you can and do 502 00:26:08,700 --> 00:26:11,600 as well. We like to end on a lighter note 503 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,200 around here and I guess, here's my question, right? 504 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,000 What is the best or worst product? 505 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,500 That Apple makes all we can start with with you Matt and see 506 00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:24,600 if you've got a which one you want to go with? 507 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,900 And we'll go to gym. You know, if I can say it, it's 508 00:26:27,900 --> 00:26:30,000 not a single product. It's kind of, I guess it would 509 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,000 be like iCloud or like, you know, the whole unified 510 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,900 experience. Like just the fact that I could 511 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,900 pick up my phone and you know, start an email then go to My Mac 512 00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:45,500 and it just like transfers over or I could like tell Siri to 513 00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:48,700 like turn on a fireplace and everything just kind of works 514 00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:52,900 whereas you know some other ecosystems are not as seamless. 515 00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:55,900 I mean I think that's the beauty of it being like a full stack 516 00:26:55,900 --> 00:26:58,400 like they own the hardware and the software that they have a 517 00:26:58,408 --> 00:27:00,900 chance. Oh I have one, that's my worst. 518 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,200 And I think everyone listening to this will appreciate if you 519 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:09,100 have air pods the the the time it takes to get that are pod to 520 00:27:09,100 --> 00:27:11,300 connect to your phone and Actually get the audio. 521 00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:14,200 You want is it's insanely inconsistent. 522 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,000 Like I find, sometimes it's like fast and it has every takes like 523 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,900 a minute or two minutes. I said I just I don't know her. 524 00:27:19,900 --> 00:27:21,600 I'm just going to blame Bluetooth for that one. 525 00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:24,600 Yeah Jim. What about yourself the best or 526 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:25,900 worst product that Apple makes is? 527 00:27:25,900 --> 00:27:31,300 So I'm like I'm not like into the newest gadgets So my answer 528 00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:37,500 is going to be nothing special but I think the Apple I think 529 00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:40,500 they're calling you the family plan but basically like Like 530 00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:45,000 apple music Apple podcast, Apple TV, like the amount of 531 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,800 entertainment that you can get, think back to when we were kids 532 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,900 who were buying like CDs. Do you want to listen to the 533 00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:55,900 song? Go buy a CD 1699 amount people 534 00:27:55,900 --> 00:27:58,100 like oh my gosh 20 bucks a month for. 535 00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:02,300 It's like a you have access to every song in the world that's 536 00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:05,800 like ever been recorded. Like it's amazing. 537 00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:07,900 So this is taking it back to the conversation. 538 00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:10,200 We had last night with Enrique and been around. 539 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,400 Collecting like vinyl and albums versus y or just everything on 540 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,100 demand. Like why would I buy something? 541 00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:18,300 It's like, it's true, that that's cute to have a wine. 542 00:28:18,300 --> 00:28:21,500 All like, I mean, I'm not trying to disrespect people were really 543 00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:25,600 into vinyl but you could never come close to the catalog. 544 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,000 So I mean, for me that's that's where it's at. 545 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,600 That's a good thing. All right, so I got to I got a 546 00:28:33,608 --> 00:28:37,700 best out of worse. The worst is without a doubt. 547 00:28:37,900 --> 00:28:40,100 Well actually, I got just thought it's like what I have to 548 00:28:40,100 --> 00:28:42,300 work. This one's the worst is the 549 00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:46,200 Apple mouse that you have to plug in on the bottom and like 550 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,300 you can't use the mouse while it's charging because the 551 00:28:48,308 --> 00:28:51,300 charging port is on the bottom. So you just kind of sit there 552 00:28:51,300 --> 00:28:55,000 like a dead rodent on your desk, completely unusable. 553 00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,000 The other is the remote control for the Apple TV with that. 554 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,000 Swipe. Yeah. 555 00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:03,800 Before they updated it which is still not great but at least 556 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,400 step in the right direction. Oh I hate that. 557 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,200 Touchpad is so bad. Is the clear weak spot. 558 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,200 Of what it is. A very good streaming box the 559 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,200 best and this is something I discovered today. 560 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,300 Literally, when I was sitting here, I was copying something in 561 00:29:18,308 --> 00:29:23,200 my my iPhone some text and I just happened to notice on my 562 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,700 MacBook sitting in front of me, it said, copied as like what? 563 00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:31,000 And I paste it, and it was the text that was on my phone, which 564 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,800 is exactly what I wanted to do. I was about to like, you know, 565 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,600 go to another app, drop it in there, or email it to myself or 566 00:29:36,608 --> 00:29:39,100 whatever, and it just, it was there. 567 00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:41,300 And it worked. I was like, Like oh wow. 568 00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:43,700 Like that is cool. Can I add a worst? 569 00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:48,000 Yeah and it's it's complaining about a missing feature so Apple 570 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,100 carplay which I love love. Apple carplay but I don't see 571 00:29:52,100 --> 00:29:57,500 why you couldn't stream a video. To your video screen in your 572 00:29:57,500 --> 00:29:59,300 car. Be like Wireless Apple carplay 573 00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:02,500 even if it's not wireless, even if it's like USB plug, I just 574 00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:05,400 don't see why you couldn't. You could play music to it. 575 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,700 You can do Apple Maps to it. Why couldn't you have like a 576 00:30:08,700 --> 00:30:12,000 YouTube video safety? Camping watching TV while you're 577 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,100 out in the street anyway you'll find a way. 578 00:30:15,100 --> 00:30:16,900 That's my complaint, the whole driving thing. 579 00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:19,900 Yeah, it's like complaint that we're gonna jump jump on 580 00:30:19,900 --> 00:30:22,400 something there. Oh yeah, no I was just going to 581 00:30:22,408 --> 00:30:24,500 say to your point. It's like it's just they do a 582 00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:27,100 million little things, right? I mean it's just like these 583 00:30:27,100 --> 00:30:30,400 little tiny details that have taken again decades for them to 584 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,600 get all tied together. But that's kind of their secret 585 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,700 sauce, I think. Yeah, yeah. 586 00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:37,600 I'm a fan time in the ecosystem. What can I say? 587 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,200 All right. I think that's been a great 588 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,000 cover. Chef Matt. 589 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,500 Thank you so much for joining us. 590 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,700 You don't let me put you on the spot real quick before we go. 591 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,200 Sure. I know a champ. 592 00:30:47,500 --> 00:30:49,100 I don't know who your competitors are. 593 00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:51,900 Who else does this? So, it's a good question. 594 00:30:51,900 --> 00:30:55,000 So I mean, we have on the MDM side. 595 00:30:55,100 --> 00:30:58,100 We've always been the traditional gorilla in the 596 00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:01,100 market, when it comes to Mac management and apple. 597 00:31:01,100 --> 00:31:04,200 Best we have other competitors that have come in like, kanji 598 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,700 and Mosel that have really been like some of the other 599 00:31:06,700 --> 00:31:09,800 competitors that have started entering the MDM space and 600 00:31:09,900 --> 00:31:11,600 increased. The following the same strategy 601 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,900 of moving up the stack with security and of course, we've 602 00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:17,700 got our friends at Microsoft, you know, doing a bit of 603 00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:21,200 everything. And, you know, we're working 604 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,900 with them where we can and adding value, because you can't 605 00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:28,500 get away from Microsoft and they also recognize the value that we 606 00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:31,000 bring. So it's really that front of me. 607 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,300 Sort of thing is exactly where we are, but that is, it's 608 00:31:34,300 --> 00:31:37,100 helping it is, it is, it keeps us motivated to keep on 609 00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:40,100 innovating and trying to deliver the best experiences and 610 00:31:40,100 --> 00:31:41,500 partner. Where we can too. 611 00:31:42,300 --> 00:31:46,300 Yeah, I guess I motivate you guys to kind of keep developing 612 00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:49,400 a staying far enough ahead. That that front of me again. 613 00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:52,400 Relationship exists since I like, hey, we don't need you at 614 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:53,800 all. Yeah, one can lie. 615 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,300 I think it's the entire industry. 616 00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:57,400 If you're not Microsoft and you're playing in their sphere 617 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,700 of what they do, especially with Azure ID and with in tune and 618 00:32:00,700 --> 00:32:03,800 with Sentinel I'm sorry with Defender and all those other 619 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,900 sort of things. Like if you're another security 620 00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:09,100 provider or identity provider, they're keeping you on your toes 621 00:32:09,100 --> 00:32:10,300 and I think that's really healthy. 622 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,300 For the industry keeps everyone innovating not, you know I agree 623 00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:16,300 resting competition is healthy for everybody and yeah, 624 00:32:16,300 --> 00:32:17,700 definitely good. So I appreciate that. 625 00:32:17,700 --> 00:32:19,500 It was just something. That's, I guess space. 626 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,700 There's only one identity podcast, like subscribe, share 627 00:32:24,700 --> 00:32:26,100 with your friends, right? All that good stuff. 628 00:32:26,700 --> 00:32:28,000 All right. We'll go ahead and wrap it up 629 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,300 for this one. We're on the web. 630 00:32:30,300 --> 00:32:32,000 I dated center.com, we're on Twitter. 631 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,400 At idac podcast, I'll have links to jam, find our show notes 632 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,500 along with Matt's LinkedIn information. 633 00:32:38,500 --> 00:32:40,200 If you'd like to reach out to him which I hope is okay. 634 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,800 What Just ask for permission just now and yeah. 635 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,900 So I would definitely encourage folks to check it out again. 636 00:32:45,900 --> 00:32:49,700 Thanks to the entire Haka team for their support as well as our 637 00:32:49,700 --> 00:32:53,400 SM for their support in helping, bring these episodes to you for 638 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,800 this entire conference. So we'll go and leave it there. 639 00:32:55,900 --> 00:32:58,800 Thanks everyone for listening and we'll talk with everyone and 640 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:04,100 the next one. Thanks for listening to the 641 00:33:04,100 --> 00:33:06,900 identity at the center podcast. If you like what you heard, 642 00:33:06,900 --> 00:33:10,200 don't forget to subscribe and visit us on the web and identity 643 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:11,100 at the center.com.