1 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:11,800 Welcome to the Identity of the Center podcast. 2 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:13,080 I'm Jeff, and that's Jim. Hey, Jim. 3 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:14,760 Hey, Jeff, how are you? I'm pretty good. 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:15,560 How are you? Good. 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:21,800 We're at Infosec World 2025, and as usual with most conferences, 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,880 like the Hallway, conversations are worth the price of 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,640 admission. Hallway con is all is all about 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,240 it. So that's that's the car good. 9 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,600 Part So I've had a few conversations with folks about 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,120 they're using managed service providers to provide identity 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,280 not only here at the conference but come a couple of times. 12 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,560 So we decided let's do a podcast about that topic. 13 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,400 Yeah, I don't think we've actually like hit this topic 14 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,120 before. And so it's like they're out 15 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,160 there. I think the, you know, there's 16 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,760 always some trepidation. OK, well, do we use a partner 17 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,120 for this? Can we do it ourselves? 18 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:56,560 The answer is probably different for everybody. 19 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,320 So it's not like A1 size fits all solution, but it's 20 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,600 definitely an area where from an identity perspective we have to 21 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,560 think about. OK, well, how do these people 22 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:05,920 get access to things if they're managing my data? 23 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,120 What about other parts, you know, other clients they might 24 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:08,480 have? Right? 25 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:09,400 Things like that. So I thought it'd be 26 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,280 interesting. And yeah, so again, I'm going to 27 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,760 be distracted because, again, looking past you is in the 28 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:19,400 episode recorded earlier, There's a pumpkin patch and 29 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:21,600 people in wizard hats across from here. 30 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,080 Well, Halloween is those weeks, so you got to cut them a little 31 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:25,880 bit of slack. But they're trying to be 32 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,960 festive, right? And we we have Halloween. 33 00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:30,560 Candy Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, we're at a 34 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,200 conference, right? You need, you need to have 35 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:33,920 something to hook people coming in. 36 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,320 Yeah. It's like a message, say, like 37 00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:37,800 for us, hey, we're doing a podcast in the middle of like 38 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:42,200 the RSM and ID identity at the center, you know, Expo hall 39 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:43,920 space. And so, yeah, like we're all 40 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:45,520 trying to do our things. And we? 41 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,320 Have Butterfingers and we have Butterfingers and other coffees. 42 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:49,760 And who do we thank for the Butterfingers? 43 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,720 It's our guest today, Mr. Mike Rearing, who joins us from 44 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:54,640 Tampa, coming in here to Orlando. 45 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,280 Thanks, guys. Thanks for bringing the candy. 46 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,880 Yeah, that's so Candy will get you everywhere on this podcast. 47 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:04,000 I'd be careful to bring candy that I don't love, and I didn't 48 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,720 personally agree at all so. Yeah, that's a that's a good 49 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,440 strategy. So I there's 100 grams and 50 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,280 crunches in there and that has been a problem for me I'll. 51 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:13,120 Just say that up front right now. 52 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,480 So for me, the thing that's in there that I like is the 53 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,520 Butterfinger and I managed to resist for the most. 54 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,800 Part. OK, well, thanks for being here 55 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,440 with us. So you're a member of the RSM 56 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:24,800 team here. I'll let you kind of introduce 57 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:26,800 yourself. But we're all part of the RSM 58 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,000 and they say, OK, we're gonna have a conversation about about, 59 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,640 you know, managed providers and kind of things like that. 60 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,440 So tell us who you are. So I'm a principal in our 61 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,960 technology consulting space and I work on, on managed. 62 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,760 So I, I both, you know, I'm a leader in the practice that 63 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,520 delivers managed services to our clients and I serve clients. 64 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,000 So been doing the managed services thing for a while. 65 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,240 So before I came in, I'm a recovering nerds. 66 00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:58,160 They don't let me do that anymore. 67 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:00,720 I'm not allowed to actually touch the keyboards, but yeah. 68 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,160 So how did you get into like the technology space? 69 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,760 So like the origin story of of you? 70 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:12,760 Yeah, I went to school for computer science, but I haven't 71 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:14,960 ever actually been paid to write any codes. 72 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:17,600 Is that a good thing? I guess. 73 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:19,880 I mean, it depends what you mean by code, right? 74 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,720 So I've scripted a bunch of stuff, right? 75 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,640 There's almost most IT people have done some sort of 76 00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:29,800 automation, but I've been an infrastructure person, man or 77 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:34,680 what? So before I came to RSM, I used 78 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:39,360 to implement things like Microsoft Active Directory, 79 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:44,280 Exchange servers. And you know, back in the day 80 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:50,040 teens used to be called a thing called what was this OCS Office 81 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,160 communication fervor. So I used to implement that 82 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,880 thing. So yeah. 83 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,440 And like, talking to you about identity is always interesting 84 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,680 to me because like, that whole Active Directory thing is like, 85 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,840 you know, it, it is at least in part an identity system. 86 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:08,720 It's an identity provider. It's the gift that keeps on 87 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,600 giving and will never die. Like everyone uses Active 88 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,160 Directory. For the most part, we can call 89 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,040 it Contra, we call it whatever we want, but it's active. 90 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,160 Whether it's on Prem or in the cloud, there's a directory 91 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,200 somewhere and I think, you know, just my own. 92 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,720 Experience. I don't know, I've never heard 93 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,400 exactly. Yeah. 94 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,200 So M1 of the reasons that we wanted to have you on the show 95 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,200 is that you're heavily involved in the MSP kind of focus. 96 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,960 And I mean, that's just like it seems like it's a rapidly 97 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,640 evolving area and a lot of organizations are doing it now. 98 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:44,160 We're reaching the identity practitioner listener base and 99 00:04:44,280 --> 00:04:48,560 these are folks who are having to secure access for their MSP 100 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,120 providers. What have you seen in terms of 101 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,680 the evolution over the last few years and what are some of the 102 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,680 the biggest impacts of those identity people? 103 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:05,400 Yeah, the, the standard by of what good stewardship is has 104 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:10,560 certainly evolved, right, in a lot of ways in the identity 105 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,800 space. And then what, what minimum 106 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,880 security standards are for various industries have have 107 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,000 evolved and people had to get a lot more mature, right. 108 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,520 The threat landscape has definitely evolved and changed 109 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,920 just in the last 5-6 years. You know, you look around and 110 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:34,040 look at this, we're not, it's not, it's a cyber conference. 111 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,760 And you know, you walk down the halls and you'll see the names 112 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:43,960 of vendors that were selling antivirus products, you know, 20 113 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,200 years ago, you know, like, wow, I didn't know they were still in 114 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,400 business 'cause I think of them as like a legacy signature based 115 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,200 antivirus provider. And then you see other people 116 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,320 that are, you know, didn't exist back then and now they're 117 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,440 leaders in his face for things like DDR and detection response 118 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,440 and that those faces change. I get it, he's changed it. 119 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:09,800 So when I first started working in the managed services space, 120 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,800 we always had, you know, the companies that I worked for at 121 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:19,160 the time, we used shared account to access our clients 122 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,120 environment. You know even the most 123 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,360 privileged accounts, you know, you know the domain admin, 124 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,200 enterprise admin level accounts were a shared account. 125 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:34,080 You know, you know Acme MSP admin, you know past client. 126 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:35,200 They've not. Gone. 127 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,360 Almost nobody wants to use that anymore, right? 128 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,640 That's right. Not the, not the leading. 129 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,360 Practice, we should just call it that, right? 130 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,640 So it's really easy to identify in the list and of account. 131 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,360 That's right. But that whole thing has 132 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:55,640 changed, you know, and and the vendor landscape has evolved to 133 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,360 support some of that and in other ways is way behind. 134 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,120 And you would you have to work around it then use, you know, 135 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,920 third party stuff to help either federate or do just in time 136 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,480 privileged access to the client environment, those sorts of 137 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,840 things. So and of course our clients, 138 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,960 you know, in our assembly serves the middle market. 139 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:22,200 So that means a lot, right? That that means very, very small 140 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,320 immature environments. I serve a not-for-profit that 141 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,920 has a budget of $20 million a year for the whole 142 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,840 not-for-profit now for IT, not for identity, not for cyber. 143 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,680 It's also for budget, right? And then I serve other clients 144 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,640 that are, you know, in, you know, the billion dollars, you 145 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:43,000 know, billions of dollars space. So their maturity in their 146 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,640 expectation and their ability to even participate with you in 147 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,920 securely and responsibly accessing their environment is, 148 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,640 you know, this massive continues, right. 149 00:07:54,720 --> 00:08:01,080 So it's not in the back from that perspective. 150 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,080 Yeah. And when I mean, do you feel 151 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,440 like the your walk around here in the in the vendor Expo hall 152 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,960 here at the conference, do you feel like the the technology 153 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,720 solutions are evolving to kind of solve those problems well? 154 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:23,440 Or is this still a major gap in terms of, you know, a focus on 155 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,280 solving the problem of having multiple third parties coming in 156 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:35,320 and managing the IT environment? Yeah, that I don't know, Like 157 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,159 I'm not an identity expert, so I don't feel rude. 158 00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:40,679 Well, if I can answer the question, to be honest with you, 159 00:08:40,919 --> 00:08:46,760 I do know that most of the folks in the Expo hall are not trying 160 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,320 to solve my problem. Isn't NSP most of them, right? 161 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:55,000 They're trying, they're building solutions for enterprise sized 162 00:08:55,040 --> 00:09:00,240 clients to do identity and access management for an 163 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:05,280 enterprise, right. And my business probably was a 164 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,720 little different. As I think about serving my 165 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,760 hundreds of clients, we've have extraordinarily disparate 166 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:15,480 technology platforms that may or may not be able to consume 167 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:21,040 identity from the IDP that I select, right or the for the, 168 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,840 you know, the federation and you know, focus station for 169 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,080 frustration platforms that I select all right. 170 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:32,000 So I feel like I can get to like 80% and then that last 20%'s 171 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,960 just really, really long, right. So we still have shared accounts 172 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:41,760 if we used to access certainly quiet systems that just can't 173 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,040 play in the sandbox. And we just have to be really 174 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,120 diligent about how we manage those privileged accounts. 175 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,080 We keep them involved. You have to check them out. 176 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,160 You know all that stuff. And you think to yourself is 177 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:59,760 probably legacy applications, but I think there's also just 178 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,200 certain industry focused applications that almost act 179 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,840 like legacy. They're still like the current 180 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,720 state, you know, latest and greatest, but you know, from the 181 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,960 standpoint of evolving with the technology, they're not doing 182 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:16,960 it. There's such like like the 183 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,800 certain industries, you're right, like the industrial space 184 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,400 is one that I think about a lot, right. 185 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,200 Because they're, you know, they're OT environments or the 186 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,040 process control environments. Like they don't go update that 187 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,040 stuff all yeah, you know what I mean? 188 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:35,600 Like some of those are, I walked into a factory a few months ago 189 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,880 and there were like zip drives on Youtubers that were running 190 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,240 Windows 2000. Yeah, you know, and I'm like. 191 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:44,600 Those are disc tries, only five years. 192 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,640 Ago we can't touch that because that's the thing that does the 193 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,920 batch control for making, you know, the polymers, they the 194 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,920 vendor isn't in business anymore and they you know, it's that 195 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:57,560 kind of stuff. You know there's always going to 196 00:10:57,560 --> 00:11:00,040 be something. Yeah, a lot of times there's 197 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,920 apps you'll see, Oh yeah, we're going to have Samuel single sign 198 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,360 on in a couple of years or something like that's not even 199 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,080 available. So I think listeners could be 200 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,600 coming from to this podcast from a couple of different places. 201 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,200 One is they've already got an MSP and they're trying to manage 202 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:20,200 access. Another is, you know, the place 203 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:25,120 where their organization is starting to look at using, you 204 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,120 know, kind of outsourcing some of those managed servers work 205 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,880 for some of the, you know, maintenance of IT and 206 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,760 information security and identity and kind of what are 207 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,840 some of the traits of, you know, a good partner? 208 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,560 What are things that stand out versus a not good partner? 209 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,440 Yeah, I guess the first thing I think of is the word partner. 210 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,760 It, you know, we all throw that word around, but it, it's a real 211 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,120 word. And one of the characteristics 212 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,400 of a good partnership in all parts of our lives, right, like 213 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:04,560 is transparency and, and, and honesty about capability. 214 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,160 What can I do well? What can I not do well? 215 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,840 And I would hope that as you're, as you're evaluating 216 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,800 relationships with different people to to serve your 217 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,200 organization, I'm not going to trust your gut. 218 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,240 Like if you can tell whether somebody's, you know, if 219 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:29,160 somebody says yes to everything, it's probably not true. 220 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,760 You know, there are things that I can't do well. 221 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,680 And I'll, you know, I my job to be courageous enough to tell you 222 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:41,640 and risk using the deal. I have to say, sorry, I I can't 223 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,720 do this. I can't do that well or I would 224 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,320 love to Co develop the ability to do this. 225 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:52,200 I'll give you a break on this engagement so we can Co develop 226 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,280 this this model, but you have to let me use it for other other 227 00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:59,400 attention clients, right? Maybe someone but you know. 228 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:01,920 The thing I thought of. When we were afraid to do that. 229 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,760 The thing I thought of when you said partnership is also there's 230 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:08,440 two sides to a partnership, right? 231 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,760 If all you are looking at is like what you're going to get, 232 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,960 yes, that's not a good starting point, right? 233 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,680 And I think, you know, I've worked in an organization where 234 00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:21,720 we looked at MSS PS and Ms. PS and it's like, you know, 235 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:26,520 ultimately the bottom dollar is going to be one of the main 236 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:30,320 drivers, but you can't kind of just go into and expect the 237 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,280 world and the lowest price. And because what you're probably 238 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,880 going to get is a lot of promises that will never be 239 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,080 fulfilled. To me, it's kind of like it's a 240 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:39,400 give and take. Yeah. 241 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:47,720 Well, and getting an MSP or an MSSP on boarded to deliver the 242 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,840 service to your organization, it thankfully like it's hard. 243 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,680 There's real work, like we have to learn each other. 244 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,760 I have to learn all the nuances and all the littles, you know, 245 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:03,200 institutional knowledge that you as the consumer of the service 246 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,560 may have well documented, but you probably don't. 247 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,320 But at least I haven't met you yet. 248 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,840 So if you're one of the, if there's a listener out here who 249 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,600 has all the institutional knowledge really well 250 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,360 documented, like please call me, I'd love to serve you, but I 251 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,400 haven't met that. I haven't met that client yet, 252 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,280 right? There's always stuff that's 253 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,240 locked up in Putin's heads that's really, really important. 254 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:29,960 And learning those things is super, super, super important 255 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,360 and it takes time and we have to document that stuff in our, our, 256 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,880 our IT. So this management platform and 257 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,520 entering the knowledge and standard operating procedures 258 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,640 and, and all that kind of stuff. And then, you know, deploying 259 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,880 the tooling and all that, right? So it's time consuming and it's 260 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:49,120 expensive. And so to your point, you don't 261 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,200 want to make a transactional decision on that relationship 262 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,280 because three years later you don't want to change. 263 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,640 It hurts to change. It costs money and time and it's 264 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,200 disrupted for change. You mean change? 265 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:03,800 Partners change partners. Great. 266 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,480 Yeah, Yeah. So hopefully you put you make a 267 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,080 good choice and you have a big culture fit and it's truly a 268 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,720 function. I kind of feel like something 269 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:18,800 I've seen my clients struggle with is looking at MSP or MSSP 270 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,400 relationship. It'll be written for, hey, we'll 271 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,920 run your environment as it is on such and such a date three years 272 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,520 in the future. The contract hasn't changed, but 273 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,280 the technology is really changing. 274 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,240 And it's like, where does that leave you? 275 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,760 Yeah, yeah. I mean, it kind of depends what 276 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,800 service you're subscribed to. You know, we said we just, you 277 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,440 know, we've been talking so far in the conversation about like 278 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:50,040 MSP as if it's one thing, right. When for a really small client, 279 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,400 the, the, the idea of being their MSP might be that I'm the 280 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,120 total outsource service, like I am the outsourced IT department. 281 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,600 They don't have any money. So when you say I'm your MSP 282 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,520 that to that client on everything. 283 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,040 I'm the service desk. So I'm monitoring, I'm patching, 284 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:12,600 I'm, you know, doing, you know, you hire onboarding, I'm 285 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,480 deploying PCs, I'm doing endpoint life cycle, I'm doing 286 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,720 all that stuff. OK, But to another organization 287 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,440 to be there, NSP might just mean that I'm the outsource. 288 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,520 I'm the outsource services, or I'm the outsourced monitoring 289 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:32,480 like network monitoring team, or I just do firewall management or 290 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,720 whatever, right? It's a discrete service. 291 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:39,040 So it depends what the service is, right? 292 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,200 And it's just that it's not one size fits. 293 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:45,560 I'm glad you made that distinction because I think we 294 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,280 sometimes get caught into like, OK, is it MSP? 295 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,560 Is it MSSP? Is there a difference? 296 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:51,720 I do. Think there's a clear 297 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:52,440 distinction? So let's. 298 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,560 Talk about that because people might not be familiar with. 299 00:16:55,040 --> 00:17:00,120 All the actors of the IT is for some of our, you know, our less 300 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,680 experienced fire, right or our client who you know, it's not 301 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,880 always even an IT professional who I'm interacting with as the 302 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,880 prime partner. She sometimes it's a operating 303 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,520 officer or a or, or somebody like that. 304 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:19,599 And for an IT professional or a, or a cyber or security 305 00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:22,400 professional, we kind of intuitively understand that 306 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:29,280 there's right, you, you know, the outsourced MSP is really, I 307 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,920 think of, I use the word infrastructure and operations, 308 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:38,080 like we're keeping the thing up and running and operating it for 309 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,320 you, right? So we're making sure that all of 310 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,080 your systems are available and ready to do their zones, right? 311 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:52,840 The security provider is really like, I think of as the cyber 312 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:57,160 operations, right? They're probably delivering a 313 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,920 set of, they're probably operating a security operation 314 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,880 Center for you. They're probably ingesting your, 315 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,480 your telemetry and your events into their SIM. 316 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:12,040 There might be providing you with endpoint detection response 317 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:18,200 tooling and they might be doing some kind of, you know, 318 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,360 vulnerability scans on a periodic or continuous basis to, 319 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,920 to make sure that we're staying ahead of, you know, the 320 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,680 vulnerabilities that are in the environment, whether they be 321 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,880 configuration or patch or whatever The thing is, right? 322 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,800 And there's got to be connectivity between those two 323 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,160 parties, whether they're the same, they're the same company 324 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,080 delivering both of those capabilities or you'd buy those 325 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:44,520 things from two different companies. 326 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:49,600 There has to be connectivity. It's like here at RSM the the 327 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:54,880 MSSP team does vulnerability scans for our clients as part of 328 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,040 their scope of service when you buy that service from us. 329 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:03,360 But my team on the managed IT side does the vulnerability 330 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:07,360 remediation, right. So we have a certain set of 331 00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:10,000 stuff that art that knows how to patch. 332 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,720 And that's not everything right there. 333 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,680 I have not met the tour, if that knows how to patch everything, 334 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,600 right? And so there's a handshake 335 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,920 between that MSSP side of the house and the MSP side of the 336 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,080 house that says, hey, you guys have been patching all the 337 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,680 Microsoft stuff that you're patching all these third party 338 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,920 products. But here's this thing in your 339 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,800 client's environment that is has a vulnerability and is behind, 340 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,160 right? What are we going to do to 341 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,760 mediate that? And there's varying levels of 342 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,680 flexity to that, you know, but there's got to be a handshake. 343 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,240 So who's who's responsible for that handshake? 344 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,840 Is it the client? That's like, OK, we've got these 345 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,000 two different services and you guys should be talking to each 346 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,720 other and ultimately right, the customer is probably. 347 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,840 What addicted to you guys you should get it varies a little 348 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:02,840 bit. If you buy both of those 349 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,200 services from us, you should expect us to be that court, 350 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,960 right? But if you are the kind of 351 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:14,200 client that is, that doesn't have an IT leader, doesn't have 352 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:19,080 an IT staff, we should be doing that coordination and reporting 353 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,760 to you, informing you if you think in racy terms, right? 354 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,960 I'm informing you that I did, that I did my job right and 355 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,840 hopefully. Through our relationship, you 356 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,720 are learning, I have a lot of clients that had zero IP 357 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,360 background, but over the course of the relationship they've 358 00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:42,240 learned enough to be able to ask intelligent and for questions of 359 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:43,640 us, right? And I love that. 360 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,360 That's the best time part, right, is, is when we're both on 361 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:50,080 the same page. But then there are other clients 362 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,880 who have some more nuances and, and you know, more experienced 363 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:59,560 and maybe they want to be more involved in that process. 364 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,920 So we'll have the meeting between the MSSP side and the 365 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,240 MSP side and the client will show up to that meeting and 366 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,360 really play an active role. They, you know, this long 4 J 367 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:18,440 thing is out there and like don't mind that bus, but it's, 368 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,680 it's stitched into our line of business application and the 369 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,240 vendor, you know, does it really have a great remediation for 370 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:26,720 like the. You end up in those kind of 371 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,480 conversations. And hopefully the client is 372 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,720 equipped to have to participate fully in an informed manner in 373 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,840 that conversation. So let me ask you for three 374 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:41,000 questions that a client should ask their managed partner. 375 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,640 Like what are the three things that is OK? 376 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,480 I'm interested in this concept of some sort of managed service. 377 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:49,360 What are three things they should be answering? 378 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:51,760 This is somebody who has not done outsourcing before and 379 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:52,960 they're thinking about boot. Counts. 380 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,440 Yeah, let's take it from that angle and say, OK, good. 381 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,360 What should you? What should they be asking? 382 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:02,760 Yeah, one of them is, is like what widgets are we counting, 383 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:08,400 OK, like how do I, how do you determine what my fee is every 384 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,800 month with that? So in the MSSP space, they are 385 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:18,640 often counting the number of devices that have UDR installed 386 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:23,080 on them or the number of log sources that are sending logs of 387 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:28,240 telemetry into the SIM, right. In the MSP space, we're often 388 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,720 counting sometimes for, for those like relatively simple 389 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,200 smaller clients, we're just like first supported user per month. 390 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,240 That's the widget. I'm counting the number of 391 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,760 employees that you have who could call the service desk and 392 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:46,120 who carry a laptop. So what's the widget that I'm 393 00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:50,120 counting in order to determine like, and there are people out 394 00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:53,800 there like especially, and it's the large enterprise space on 395 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:59,040 the health desk side, it's, you know, fee for service desktop 396 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,600 per month and you pay every time you fall. 397 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,120 Like I personally don't like that model because it it just 398 00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:07,920 doesn't doesn't inset the right behaviors. 399 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,720 What's the what's the service provider's incentive? 400 00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:13,640 So drive down the valley in the service dust falls and be 401 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,400 prominent right in that. Maybe I don't understand it, I 402 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,040 don't know. But what's the witches? 403 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:28,800 What's another one? Who is going to after the 404 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,400 salesperson walks away? Who? 405 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,000 What's my What's my escalation path? 406 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,480 Who's my account manager? I'd like to meet them. 407 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,040 I hope you've already met them through this, the sales process. 408 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,680 But who, who's the, who's the escalation path? 409 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,680 What happens if that person builds on PTO on vacation? 410 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,720 How do I get escalation to find an impalm? 411 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:59,720 And so I would want to know that and what are the metrics that 412 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,600 we're going to use to define success? 413 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:09,000 And so that could be, you know, response time and itself is so 414 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,080 the celebrity greener around response time. 415 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,120 If it's a service desk thing, one of the things we report to 416 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:19,760 our clients in a program that I run is I report the client 417 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,760 satisfaction for my clients. So would you subscribe to ours 418 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,520 for the pills desk? We offer your caller an 419 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,080 opportunity to tell us how we did. 420 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,800 Five stars, but 5 is good, one is bad. 421 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,440 I report that back to all my clients. 422 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:40,440 This is, you know, 75 or 100 or 1000 of your people responded to 423 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,120 the survey last month. And this is how many people told 424 00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:46,680 us we did a great job. Here are the ones who told us we 425 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,040 did a poor job. And this is what we did to 426 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:50,880 revelate that. Make sure it doesn't happen. 427 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,680 So what's the standard for success that we're going to use 428 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,680 them to manage them? I love Jeff's question because 429 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,400 what we're always trying to drive towards in these 430 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,800 conversations is what are the actionable steps that people can 431 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,440 come and take away from those? Yeah. 432 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:11,160 And I'm sitting here processing when you have the MSP and MSSP, 433 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:17,400 it feels like identity becomes the area where it's like where 434 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,440 does that line kind of stop because you want to say, oh, 435 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:26,240 MSSP you do identity. But I would think in the the 436 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,960 world that MSP is often running like Active Directory, which 437 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,160 ends up being one of the most important identity systems. 438 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,720 So if you're kind of architecting the solution like 439 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,240 roles and responsibilities, but also realizing that the tech 440 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:45,320 landscape changes every couple of years, what is the approach? 441 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,040 And I always feel like a well informed client is the best 442 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,320 client because they understand the challenges right? 443 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,600 Well, you don't have misunderstandings and surprises, 444 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:54,680 right? Right. 445 00:25:54,680 --> 00:26:00,560 What a welcome client for sure. You know where identity lives is 446 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,800 kind of up to the client, right. You guys probably work with 447 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,160 clients and yours and probably there are people on this fall 448 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,480 and some of the people for on this podcast that are pursuing 449 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,280 the podcast. Some of you work for the the 450 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,480 security team at your employer and some of you might work for 451 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,360 the IT team at your employer. I don't think there's, I don't 452 00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:24,640 think there's consensus in the world about where identity lives 453 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,440 in, in our our universe of IT departments and cyber 454 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,160 departments in the world, right, right. 455 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,680 It's a question. That comes up every time. 456 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,440 Like, you know, we sit with clients who should it report to? 457 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,880 Yeah, there isn't a right answer and I'm not a. 458 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,480 Security professor so I hope I don't know the right answer. 459 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,920 If I I'm responsive to the client in that. 460 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,720 It should belong somewhere though, like somebody should be 461 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,000 doing it. What it does is as long as they 462 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,120 know about it and they're. Responsible. 463 00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:51,680 It's an afterthought though. Like I've we onboard clients all 464 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:57,720 the time to our managed service and getting to one of the first 465 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:04,720 things we start to look at is when a hiring manager clicks on 466 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,880 the configuration item in the in the in the portal that says I 467 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:14,520 need a new hire. Like what is the authorization 468 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,600 process for that? What job roles exist? 469 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,120 What authorizations, what identities do they need? 470 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,040 Yeah, right. Because a ton of my clients 471 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,840 don't have a central identity provider so. 472 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,760 You trace those whole workflows and kind of figure out what are 473 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,480 the sticking points. And then you know, who gets to 474 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,560 authorize which job roles, what kind of laptop do they get, what 475 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,040 systems do I provision identity into and so on. 476 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:47,560 And then because some of our pricing models have this price 477 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:52,480 per supplies user per month, find a concept like what's the, 478 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,640 what's the system of like of record for figuring out like 479 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,160 what's a user and what's an active user? 480 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,160 And then you start digging into their system. 481 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,680 And I'm like, you told me that you have, you know, 1500 482 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:10,280 employees that work here, but they're like 3800 active Active 483 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,520 Directory or Ultra accounts that like aren't logged in over. 484 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,840 So that doesn't feel right. Like you told me 1500 people 485 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,560 work here. Why do you have an extra X 486 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,920 number of thousand against? And they and they're like, yeah. 487 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,680 But that drives that, that incense behavior on your part to 488 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,840 say, wait a second, is the license incorrect? 489 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,040 Because I know that that is a challenge for a lot of 490 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,640 organizations. Like we don't, we don't actually 491 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,040 know how many people here it. Becomes a licensing thing 492 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,120 because they're probably paying for AE3 or E5 or right, whatever 493 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,600 license to Microsoft or whoever, right, whatever your system is 494 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,440 for a person who hasn't been here for whoever and and they 495 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,280 could still log in like the identity's active right? 496 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,320 That they I would be worried about that, right. 497 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,200 But we run across people like that. 498 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,400 These kind of like workflowing processes sound to me like the 499 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:08,040 perfect topic for workshops. One to two day workshops. 500 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,480 I'm just wondering. Have you ever got that done in 501 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,120 two days? Since this is at some point you 502 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,160 have. Like occasions, right, right. 503 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,960 At some point you got to say, OK, we're going to go with 504 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,800 vendor A or vendor B. Do you get that opportunity in a 505 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:28,280 lot of, because I've seen our fees be the way to kind of like 506 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:33,040 get folks to come in, But it seems like it's such a important 507 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,560 process to figure out like are we working with somebody who 508 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,680 gets it and cares about our needs? 509 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,400 Or does it come down to all right, put together a bunch of 510 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,040 documentation and give us a. Price, the RP thing's so tough, 511 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,440 like, you know? I'm on record as not liking 512 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,400 them. Well, no one, no vendor likes 513 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:51,400 them, right? I don't. 514 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,880 Like doing them even on the customer side because they don't 515 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,000 really. It seems like it's a paperwork. 516 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,200 Exercise what they use them at least in principle. 517 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:06,240 They exist to like keep the the process of captain right? 518 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,280 So it's not who took you to dinner or it's not who gave you 519 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:14,560 tickets to the hockey game. It's it's ideal you would like 520 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,520 to see that RFP processes are a way to keep things objective. 521 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,120 But you're right, it ends up putting up this wall between 522 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:27,320 your organization and potential service providers that's hard to 523 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,400 penetrate. You know, it's hard to get to 524 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:37,840 what the real consumer of the service really cares about and 525 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:43,560 wants and being exposed to that while still respecting the 526 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:48,000 spirit of the RFP processing function, right. 527 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,240 You know, I struggle with it a lot. 528 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,240 You know, I also don't like them, but I understand why do 529 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,040 they right? They you end up with like a 530 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:02,400 procurement person who sometimes if you know larger organizations 531 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,640 might have a procurement person who's assigned to I team dealer 532 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,280 superior cyber, the office from the system and over their 533 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,680 career, they, they actually understand the things they're 534 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,960 trying to help high right. But then sometimes come across 535 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,000 procurement people who are really just box checkers have no 536 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:25,360 clue what the service is that they're trying to facilitate and 537 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,160 they're just running through a process and that. 538 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,200 That's time, yeah. I just feel like it's it's the 539 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,560 RFP process. The spirit and the intent is 540 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:39,280 good, but the execution in the real world is very lacking. 541 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,720 Say that about so many takes time on it. 542 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:44,920 All right, let's talk a little bit about. 543 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:46,080 So you. You. 544 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,400 You talked before about, you know, how do you measure some of 545 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,760 the things that, you know, the client might want to see as a 546 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,200 consumer of that service? But let's talk about risk and 547 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,280 maybe if that perspective, are there other ways that we could 548 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,000 say, OK, we've reduced the risk. You identified one, right? 549 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,520 Hey, we found this account and guess what? 550 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,000 It should be a it should have been, you know, removed a while 551 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,280 back, right, licensing. Are there other risk reduction 552 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,680 sort of metrics that come out of this kind of conversation or 553 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:11,760 this type of service? I should say I. 554 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,280 Mean they're all open race and and they vary from client to 555 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:20,480 client and it's it around identity. 556 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,040 It's like how am I provisioning identity that finding the 557 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:25,920 fashion? How am I deep provisional of 558 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,840 identity? How am I ensuring that as a 559 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,120 person for their life cycle in your publicization doesn't just 560 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:37,480 accumulate permission then then access, you know, as they get 561 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,240 transferred from department of the department. 562 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,440 Have they just accumulated access to everything they've 563 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,800 ever had? You know, and it has no no 564 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,480 relationship to their third world. 565 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:49,840 You know, we end up talking about stuff like that. 566 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,480 We end up on my side of things. We spend a ton of time talking 567 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:59,240 about vulnerability and and patching and you know, what's 568 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:04,840 the right mix of being hyper responsive to security related 569 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,800 patches and from your updates and fix the like that. 570 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,680 Wow, doing some kind of change management and testing around 571 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,080 that stuff. Some of our clients just want us 572 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,960 to deploy it, right, you know, and you know, like, hey, can we 573 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,000 just maybe let's deploy it to this test group first, then the 574 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,680 next week we'll deploy it to everybody. 575 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,280 So you know what I mean? So we need to talk about that 576 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,320 kind of stuff. A lot of our middle market 577 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:38,160 clients don't really have the concept of vendor management as 578 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:43,680 relates to ITI spoke to someone just recently and they're like, 579 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,320 yeah, I went to this, you know, this meeting, you know, four 580 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,480 different departments are evaluating AI solutions for 581 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,160 their department and I'm like, hold on guys, why aren't you 582 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,800 talking to IT? Then I called this person, I 583 00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:00,520 said you don't have shadow IT because you don't have a policy. 584 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,440 Like you don't have any kind of vendor in fate that evaluates 585 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,199 the risk of new solutions and opinion in the environment. 586 00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:11,400 You have it when they win the business what the what the rules 587 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,440 are. And so they can't be breaking 588 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,280 the rules if there aren't any rules for anything. 589 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:16,800 You're like, you know what I mean? 590 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,920 So and this person was like. Yeah, Yeah, right. 591 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:22,679 Right. Yeah, exactly. 592 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,560 Yeah. So Mike, you've been super 593 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,600 generous with your time. We're at AIT conference. 594 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,560 Guess what they're talking about AI cruising system. 595 00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:34,480 So AI is changing everything in technology, right? 596 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,600 It's going to change MSSPI think as well. 597 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:42,080 Yeah, kind of put your your future facing hat on if you 598 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,280 would and just talk about where you see those changes coming. 599 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,639 How do you see this space evolving in the next couple of 600 00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:51,480 years? Because of AI, Yeah. 601 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:58,800 So the, the, the two things that I think are important on the MSP 602 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,400 side of things that are interesting that are, that are 603 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,480 happening in AI, at least we're actually spending time and money 604 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,040 and, and putting real focus on this. 605 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,400 One of them is we spend at, we use, we use AI to do some 606 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,560 problem management. So problem management 607 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:19,000 historically has been a somewhat labor intensive thing and you 608 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,360 can use tools to help you with it, but so. 609 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,880 When you say problem management, can you describe what that is 610 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,520 for people who aren't familiar? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 611 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:30,000 So problem management is a ITIL process and problem management 612 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,360 is looking for trends across multiple incidents or service, 613 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:39,640 but so you know, it's work Spark not hard is the short is the 614 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:44,000 TLDR of problem management. It's I get a ton of calls about 615 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,160 this one issue and I could just solve the issue every time the 616 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,720 call comes in. Or I could try, try to find the 617 00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:51,920 root cause. And the root cause might be a 618 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,640 technology root cause. It might be a training issue 619 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,360 that might be organizational change management thing. 620 00:35:57,720 --> 00:36:02,520 But if I get, you know, 45 calls a day about the same problem 621 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:07,320 from the same client and I'm not doing any kind of I might never 622 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:11,080 identify the that I might just my service desk operation like 623 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,480 the Super inefficient and my clients. 624 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,960 So I always tell my clients, if your people are talking with my 625 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:18,280 people, they're not doing their job. 626 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,080 So I want to make it so that your people never have to pull 627 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:26,200 my OK, if your personal on the service desk, they're not doing 628 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,880 their thing. So if I could reduce that 25 629 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:34,640 calls a day on this one topic to a handful or zero. 630 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,000 That's the guilt. That's the bullet prompt. 631 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,760 It makes everybody happy. But there's some AI stuff that 632 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:48,560 we can do to look at the natural language text in the body of 633 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,480 our, our case or ticket history, if you will, and find out like 634 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:53,720 what are the things that are happening. 635 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,320 I, I use AI to look at, I told you, I run that play experience 636 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:03,800 program for, for our, our major service business. 637 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:10,240 And we use AI to look for themes that clients complain about, 638 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,320 like what are the things that that multiple people at the same 639 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,440 client might be playing bound or what are the things that 640 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,520 multiple people across our falls right of clients like waiting 641 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,720 back about in their case view. And then we go actually take 642 00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:31,000 action. So that's it for who for sure. 643 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,160 Problem management implies that. And then the other thing is, you 644 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:40,160 know, we've all gone to a service desk portal and filled 645 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,240 out our ticket, right? And some of the more advanced 646 00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:47,400 systems today are as you fill out the Tibet and they're 647 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,560 starting to suggest solutions to you for self-service, I think 648 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,640 you'll see that accelerate in just the the maturity of their 649 00:37:55,720 --> 00:37:59,520 solutions and their ability to let you solve your whole problem 650 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,280 without this the the service desk, whether it's an insourced 651 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,080 or outsourced service desk, having to have person do 652 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,400 something. And you can see that stuff go 653 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,600 like I hate, I used to hate this things like try and just talk to 654 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,480 a person who consult. I'm an old guy, right? 655 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,880 I want to talk to a person who consult me problem. 656 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,480 I'm starting to pivot on the end then now I'm getting to a place 657 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,200 where the solutions that are being offered to me as I fill 658 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,160 out the digital form are actually better than. 659 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,800 They're getting so much better. I mean, you see it all over the 660 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,280 place. I still find myself sometimes 661 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,320 where you could tell they're the dated all the way. 662 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,960 You're just like, I want to speak to human. 663 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,240 I want to speak to human. Before they ask you the same 664 00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:41,080 question, five months. Yeah, right. 665 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,920 You call your bank or your credit card company and you 666 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:50,320 answer the questions to file and then Sally asked you the exact 667 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,560 same questions. Annoying. 668 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,280 Why, right. Maybe some of those questions 669 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,160 you guys are identity to, maybe some of those questions are 670 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,120 authentication, but that's not anything. 671 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,960 But they're they're continuous identity. 672 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:03,760 Continuous identity verification. 673 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,400 Trust, right? I mean I I understand. 674 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:11,840 Memory from. 0 memory. Well, part of it might be that 675 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,520 somebody got injected into the call process, right? 676 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,080 If I have a Direct Line or something like that, how do you 677 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:18,200 know it's that person on the line? 678 00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:21,040 It's it's a slippery slope. My background is help desk. 679 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,600 So when you start talking about, you know, problem management, we 680 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,440 had an entire team, this would have been early 2000s that was 681 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,760 responsible for writing right all the procedure documentation 682 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,080 and say, OK, if a caller calls with this problem, here are the 683 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,320 steps to fix it. AII think changes that quite a 684 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:41,040 bit, because now that information theoretically can be 685 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,480 generated by AI. Well. 686 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,680 What happens, you still need people to review it because what 687 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,960 you don't want to do is have it hallucinates, which is that nice 688 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,400 way of saying lie, you know, to give you incorrect, you know, 689 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,040 directions on how to solve something. 690 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,520 So it's a very fascinating world we're in right now where AI is 691 00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,520 literally touching like every single part of the journey of a 692 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,160 customer through any support mechanism, whether it's they hit 693 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,040 the help desk, right? And if the help desk has a 694 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,120 problem, they're referring to documentation. 695 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,440 All that's being, you know, set up through potentially AI 696 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,600 identity problems are part of that. 697 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,960 Again, you run help desk, you're probably getting phone calls for 698 00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:21,240 my password doesn't work or I can't get my mobile device 699 00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:24,960 connected to the MDM, right. This is a you know we're we're 700 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,160 inside baseball. We had some problems with this 701 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:28,840 with you, right? Yeah, exactly right. 702 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,520 So things like that is these are all identity problems that are 703 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,200 coming in through the 1st port of contact is either a web form 704 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,680 right, my ticketing system, itsm or I'm picking up the phone and 705 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,840 calling somebody. A lot of this stuff is is just 706 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,400 changing the way it's working. I kind of feel like that 707 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,560 companies are sometimes afraid to unleash the full power of AI. 708 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:54,720 So for example, I called in for a pharmacy prescription renewal 709 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:56,920 and it was like, I can help you with that. 710 00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,920 Give me the prescription number. It's like, I don't know the 711 00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:02,640 prescription number. Can you tell me all of the 712 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,320 prescriptions I have with you? And I'll tell you the one that I 713 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,600 want. Well, I think their AI was 714 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,960 definitely smart enough to pull that back. 715 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,000 But at some point someone put guardrails on the AI and said 716 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:15,480 we're not going to do that, right? 717 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,440 That's too, too much of an opportunity for fraud or 718 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,840 whatever. They're concerned like concerns, 719 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,800 but like, man, that would have been like super useful, they 720 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,800 said. I was like, talk to human, talk 721 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,280 to human. Yeah, yeah. 722 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:37,520 I, I went to a client experience conference recently, well less 723 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,240 than a year ago. And in the client experience, 724 00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:43,440 well, one of the things that happens is the concept that 725 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,840 closed the loop, right? So if somebody gives you 726 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,040 negative feedback, like somebody should reach back out to them, 727 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,560 then at least send them an e-mail and acknowledge their 728 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,120 pain, right? Or maybe call them whatever, 729 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,520 right? And one of the vendors in that 730 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:03,240 space was touting their ability to do close the loop without 731 00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:07,520 even intervention, right? So the agent can reach back out 732 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,520 to the person who gave you negative feedback and make them 733 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,440 heard. And I just know that ironic that 734 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:18,720 like you want, you're using a system to make your customer 735 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,760 feel heard by an empathetic human, but they never get to 736 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,400 talk to him, right? And at what point do our agents 737 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:28,800 just talk to each? That's why. 738 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,800 I mean, that's that's a lot of transactions taking taking 739 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:32,760 place. They're going to be ancient to 740 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,160 ancient and then, you know, you guys figure it out. 741 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,800 Let me know what your agent. Yeah, exactly. 742 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:39,760 It makes us all sound very important, right, Agents? 743 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,000 You've been very generous with your time bands. 744 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,800 It's getting loud here in the conference kind of Expo area. 745 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,520 Like, I feel like I'm just being served right, Yeah. 746 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,520 You should be fine. You do photography on the side 747 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,680 and we were kind of talking a little bit about like deeking 748 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,440 out maybe some of the tools and stuff that we're kind of. 749 00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,840 Using here, you guys have a, the audience probably can't see it 750 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,080 because you've always had like a really cool portable video and 751 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:04,360 audio rig. Here, thank you. 752 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,560 It's it works for what we do. I want to know, you know, from 753 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,040 your photography expertise and your history, like what is your 754 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,440 is definitely too. Strong about OK. 755 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,960 OK, your your interests. Yeah. 756 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,000 Like what is your favorite thing to photograph? 757 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,320 And like, what is it about photography that like, you just 758 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:27,800 enjoy it so much? I like travel photography, so 759 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,200 I'm the person who probably doesn't pick up the camera 760 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:36,280 often. So I definitely take it on 761 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:43,280 certain kinds of trip and they I think it makes you, it makes 762 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:48,760 you, it gives you an opportunity to look at the world with 763 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,280 intentions. So anybody can, anybody can pick 764 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,120 up a camera or your phone and just snap it, right? 765 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,240 A lot of people will say the best camera is the one you have 766 00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:01,320 with. You the 1 you carry. 767 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:02,160 Right. And for a lot of. 768 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:03,480 People that is their phone, right? 769 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:08,240 But I'm, I'm a nerd, so I like the, you know, I like to have a 770 00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:11,880 real camera with me, but I do travel photography and I like to 771 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,360 take pictures of wildlife and birds, birds of fuel, because 772 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,440 they're a technical challenge. They're this thing that's moving 773 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:23,160 quickly, often really far away. And I still haven't taken a good 774 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:28,200 bird pic. So I've taken soft bird pics 775 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:29,680 that I was like, OK, that's cool. 776 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:36,560 But there are certain things in life that I think some of the 777 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,200 best things in life, but with things that they've never done 778 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,240 getting good in, like literally even play golf, like they 779 00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:46,880 probably chase that thing where they're not done getting Glen 780 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:48,760 out of it. I play tennis. 781 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,760 I'm never going getting good at tennis. 782 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,320 I'm a sailor. You never get done getting good 783 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,080 at sailing. Photography is another thing to 784 00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:00,880 think it's you've never done. There's always more to and truly 785 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,840 even try to. What is your What is your white 786 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,280 whale of photography like? If you could take a photograph 787 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,120 of anything I don't what would it be? 788 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:11,040 Like that? Nothing. 789 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,760 No, I don't. Particular bird, particular 790 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:15,760 scene. Nothing. 791 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:16,920 Just. That's not the way. 792 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,520 OK, so I use it's about capturing a moment. 793 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,440 You mean like capturing it in an intentional way, right? 794 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:29,480 Like I, I, there's a, there's a YouTube channel the, the guy 795 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,720 runs that my daughter expressed recently in interest of 796 00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:35,600 photography. So I introduced to this guy's 797 00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:39,600 YouTube channel and we were watching one of his Intro to you 798 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:47,520 photography episodes and he was like, there's a improperly 799 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:52,600 exposed shot, there's a properly exposed shot, and there's a 800 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:58,640 creatively correct shot. So correct shot make creative 801 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,160 the correct shot of two different things. 802 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:05,560 And the creative Nick Barrett shot Heart is where you bring 803 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,520 your art to the science. And maybe it's you chose to get 804 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,080 down on a knee and take it from a different angle, or you chose 805 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:18,400 to, you know, expose the shot in a way that emphasized, you know, 806 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,640 something in the foreground and word background in a creative 807 00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:25,440 way or whatever that thing is. Get that bouquet effect right? 808 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,680 Yeah, but I. Think it's yeah. 809 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,240 I don't remember Wade Whale. If not like that's that's a good 810 00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:34,760 question. If I don't have an answer to 811 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,600 that, me and I, there's no bowl. I don't have a bowl. 812 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:44,920 Me even though, yeah. Yeah, I've, I've, as I've, as 813 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,560 we've grown this podcast, right, we've introduced video with like 814 00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:51,440 in the last year and a half or so, I've gotten into things that 815 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,400 I hadn't thought about before, right before we were audio. 816 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,800 Now we're video. And so it's like OK camera 817 00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:00,160 angles and lighting and exposure and framing of shots. 818 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,160 And I'm not an expert on it at all. 819 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,160 I try to find something that works with the gear that we have 820 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:06,600 for the environment that we're in. 821 00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,240 And now I'm getting into color correction. 822 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:15,040 And now it's like, OK, what does pleasing look like to me might 823 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:16,640 be very different for someone else, right? 824 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,120 And so you get over saturated color sometimes or maybe that is 825 00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,000 pleasing. The tool like that you and I 826 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,240 were talking about. The different. 827 00:47:23,240 --> 00:47:27,800 Resolve Right started as a color graded product and became a 828 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,280 video video. So yeah. 829 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,320 And do my eyes perceive colors the same way as someone else? 830 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,640 Do you want it to be hyper realistic, right, or are you 831 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,600 trying for an effect? Yeah, yeah. 832 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,040 There's just so much to it and I find it. 833 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,000 Fasting, going to start wearing makeup on the on the I'll. 834 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,040 Wear like, you know, like like stage makeup for like, you know, 835 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,400 a heavy metal band. I'll do that. 836 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:50,680 That would probably help this at anything. 837 00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,880 All right, let's go ahead and leave it there for for this 838 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:55,160 episode. Mike, thank you so much for 839 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:56,640 taking time out. Thanks for being here. 840 00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,360 You know, I think this is such an interesting area that we 841 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,000 haven't really touched on is like that whole managed provider 842 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,160 kind of community. So hopefully people got, you 843 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,160 know, a sense out of that. I think people are going to love 844 00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,640 this episode. Yeah, I think especially we got 845 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,000 into the conversation about help desk and like the real world 846 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,120 stuff and that's what the identity practice is doing. 847 00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:17,760 And shout out to all my help desk people. 848 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,120 And that's where I started at. Least you could like keep going 849 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,920 down the Rataville, you could grab like the HR and paywall 850 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:28,440 team into this. Like you guys are identity 851 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,120 professionals, right? Like it's not just IT or even 852 00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,880 cyber rates, you have to have that business connection. 853 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:35,800 A lot of IM is just business process. 854 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,080 You know, the technology is sort of like the third leg over here, 855 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:40,640 but so much of people in process. 856 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,560 Yeah. All right, we've been here for 857 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,120 this week. Shout out to Shirley again and 858 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,200 RSM for bringing us out here. Let's see what else 859 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,280 idacpodcast.com like and subscribe dot TZ. 860 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,080 IDAC. Dot TV. 861 00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,680 You know idac podcast dot. Podcast, I should just go to 862 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,400 idacpodcast.com. It's there. 863 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:02,920 The YouTube channel linked everything else. 864 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,200 I know I've got too many domain names for the podcast now I'm 865 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,120 starting to lose track of it. I need like a. 866 00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:09,440 Is this defensive domain name registration? 867 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,720 A little bit, but also, you know, Zeke, alright, how do we 868 00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:13,000 make sure that we got things covered? 869 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:17,120 I need like a like a Pam system for all my like domain names or 870 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:17,760 something. I don't know. 871 00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:19,360 That's a whole. Different we manage for the MP 872 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,280 so we you could become a fuss of. 873 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,840 All right, well then, you know, maybe we should have a, if only 874 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,040 I had like a an episode that I could lean into and say what 875 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,720 should I be asking my provider? OK Mike, thank you so much for 876 00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:31,920 taking the time with us. And yeah, we've been there for 877 00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:33,680 this week. Thanks Amber one for watching 878 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,280 and or listening and we'll talk with y'all in the next one. 879 00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,880 You've been listening to Identity at the Center. 880 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:46,320 We hope you've enjoyed the show. Make sure to like, rate and 881 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,920 review, and we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hit the 882 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,320 website at identity@thecenter.com.