This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with I
am this is the go-to podcast. So if you're a beginner or an
expert or anyone in between you've found your new home
welcome to Identity at the center now your host Jim
McDonald and Jeff Steadman Welcome to the identity of the
sender podcast I'm Jeff and that is Jim.
Hey Jim. Hey Jeff.
How are you not so bad yourself doing great.
Start on a webinar this morning from Gartner and its really,
really good. So the topic was the one page
strategy and it kind of went over what the one-page strategy
is and what it is. And the idea is to capture the
essence, the the main point of the strategy not meant to
replace the strategy, right? So, you know, in our experience
we we've kind of done this in terms of we built, you know, the
full identity and access management strategy for our
clients and it could be a hundred slides.
Then we create the executive presentation which may be 10
slides, right? So really captures the essence,
but this is like pushing yourself even further.
How can you turn it into one slide and really the It I
thought it was like kind of geniuses like the boil this
strategy down into one slide it really becomes a conversation
Kickstarter with any stakeholder population which is really what
the executive presentation was is meant to be, which is kind of
a Roadshow deck that you can adapt to the talking to HR or
you're talking to marketing or you're talking to a another
business unit or part of it. You know that's meant to
Kickstarter but still getting through 10 12 sides with
somebody is not the easiest thing to do but if you can just
throw one slide up throw it on the screen or have a printout,
it just it's really effective. Communication tool.
What do you think? Yeah, I am told her, right.
I was wondering where that you sent me a OneDrive Linker,
whatever one no link to check something.
I was like, all right. Well I wonder where this came
from. Now I know what you were sitting
on a webinar while was well, I was working gym on call.
Well no I mean that I'm glad you said that because Fleet I was
working too. Yeah, I think a big part of what
everybody should be doing with some part of their week is
sharpening. The saw I How you getting
better, you know, this was my first exposure to the one-page
strategy or that concept. But you know, if you're not
refreshing your thoughts and kind of, not only reinforced me
what, you know, maybe challenging what, you know,
however, you want to look at it but you've got to be doing
something to get yourself better or not only going to just like
stag me, you're actually going to get worse, they get left
behind, get left behind. So anyway, I thought this was a
really effective tool that I'm going to try to To not only you
know do four big identity strategy projects for clients
but also make an effective tool for other efforts I'm working
on. It's really like can I get this
down into? Can I summarize this piece of
work this strategy into one slide to make it kind of an
effective communication to see. Now you're talking my language
because I think this is absolutely a skill that everyone
should have is being able to distill You know, whatever their
message is down to a brief concise summary story, something
like that. I think there's this natural
reaction to jam. A whole bunch of information as
much as you can into, you know, one slide or one conversation
or, you know, one email whatever may be and it becomes
overwhelming. And I think this is, this is a
skill that I think a lot of people it doesn't come naturally
to throw. It doesn't come naturally for
me, you know, trying to, you know, make the topic.
A tional and relatable to whoever you're talking to if you
can do that, you're going to go a lot further quicker because
you're going to get buy-in from other folks that are out there,
you know, there's a time to have a technical conversation and
there is absolutely time to not have a technical conversation
and you need to be able to flip between both, you know, with
ease and make sure that you can communicate effectively.
That's right. Yeah.
And you know, I was kind of thinking in terms of kind of a
one Tragically, if you're going to make a one-page strategy for
IGA, you might have things in there like on-boarding and
off-boarding people, right? It's important part and it makes
a lot interest folks from HR, for sure.
Then you've got, like, the access recertification been
you've got role-based access control.
So each of those kind of speaks to different audiences and I
think pulling all that together. You now have the conversation.
With the CIO. So they understand, okay, here's
all. The stakeholders that are going
to be interested that get benefit from this investment
that you're going to make. But I mean, see what I found is
like the more senior people get in terms of like their level
within the organization, the better you have to do to kind of
like make sure your message right, I guess the point quickly
because they don't have time to waste and if you're going to Try
to run them through 30 slides before getting to the point like
you're going to lose them. I think it's a difference
between data and a report and a message and a story and it's
something you and I have done for years is like, what's the
story as we're going through conversations?
Especially when we're talking with key stakeholders Executives
or things is because one thing to have the, have the data, the
other one is, what is the message?
And they're two different things.
And, you know, I think Pro tip for all the folks are out there
trying to communicate with you. You know, people to get funding
agreement by in whatever, maybe is make sure you understand the
difference and that you're communicating the right message
at the right time with the right people.
Yeah, yeah. And and, you know, going back to
this one pagers, it's not meant to replace the detail because
you might be sitting out there. Like what kind of strategy is
only one page, right? The idea isn't that it replaces
having a detail strategies shows.
I got a simple I guess. Simple one-page I am.
Strategy for you. Should we do I am one page?
Yes. Alright.
Next, right done. Okay.
Yeah. Then you gotta start peeling
back the onion but for sure right.
I'm glad you mentioned Gardener because I think that's a good
segue. I think by the time folks are
listening to, this will be about a week out or so from the
Gartner I am Summit that you and I are both going to be at.
So we there onstage grilling Becky and Henry K on a variety
of IM topics. Get a lot of great questions
from listeners to going to see some Trends and themes.
So starting to incorporate that into sort of our plan of attack
if you will for our conversation with those two.
But I'm getting, I'm starting to get excited to start to become a
little more real. It'll be cool to have, you know,
familiar faces. Hopefully, you know, in the
audience a little nervous. I think it's first time again
kind doing this on and on such a big stage but I'm sure I'm sure.
We'll we'll crank out a good conversation.
What do you think? Well, I think it's really
interesting that we're up there. Kind of do Like simulating a
podcast episode, right? And use the term, we're going to
be grilling and then we need a plan of attack.
I've only those worth so that was the message.
I used the the words right? Or very specifically chosen for
how I wanted to get that. I think you're picking up on it.
Okay. Well I mean you know typically
the identity of the sender podcast is not Meet the Press
right? I mean it's it's not softball
questions. Any think we really get into
good topics but I think we do it in a way that makes people feel
comfortable listening and being a guest on the show.
So but I think what's really interesting is, you know, Henry
Kay who's you know, the person who had this Grand Vision of
doing this session really wants us to go in there and not have
it be, you know, Bubblegum and lollipop.
Yeah, I mean fair but You know, I'm specifically trying to come
up with stuff and Source things that are not things that you
would normally hear a Gartner analyst talk about or that they
haven't answered like 7,000 times before.
So, something a little more unique, maybe more personal,
right, things like that. I think we've got a good list
right now. It's starting to, you know,
crystallize a little bit. So, you know, we'll see how it
goes. But the problem that we have Jim
is we have way too much to talk about and we only have 30
minutes. It's and realistically we
probably have like 25 minutes, right?
If you kind of think about closings openings and, you know,
kind of, almost kind of filler stuff in between, so trying to,
you know, cram as much as we would love to do it at 25
minutes, is going to be challenged my ideas.
Like we have a little timer on the screen for like the slides.
As I are going to spend like 30 seconds on this topic.
So like go right lightning rounds, you know, things like
that to try and get as many questions as we can, you know,
out and still have it be a viable discussion.
I will be, will be a challenge but, you know, I think we're up
for it. I don't think we should lose the
one idea. I mean, I don't think we should
do it or one idea. I think merits discussion, which
was the hot wings, like, doing something where it's like, we
get progressively hotter and hotter food that people eat.
But, you know, that makes me the very unpredictable.
I think that adds a level of complexity to it.
I would do it. I'm not a spicy, you know, food
person. I think I would probably tap out
at like, maybe medium hot sauce. I think I would be the first to
go in that first. Voted off the island for the
spicy food stuff, but I'm, yeah, I don't know what, we'll be able
to put together on that, but I think that idea like was like,
hey, let's bring the hot ones kind of idea to the
conversation. Like, I don't think we could
have like Salon wings, but maybe it's, you know, you do a dab of
hot sauce in some thing, or maybe eat something really sour
or, you know, you take a drink. I don't think we'll be able to
shots or anything, but that was kind of like one of the ideas
that were playing around with item.
Yeah, but see. I'm fine with it.
So I know that our this episode is just going live right before
the conference. But if you haven't heard yet,
we're doing an identity of the center community, meet up.
So if you're a listener of the podcast you know reach out to
Jeff for. I hopefully there's still some
open slots, I mean registration or somewhat limited we had were
renting a place which is called Corky's gaming Beast.
Stroh and we'd love to get more people in.
But I'm afraid that by the time this episode publishes this
message will already be void. But anyway if you're going to be
at the Gardner conference at least reach out to Jeff and I
would love to shake her hand and and thank you for listening to
the podcast. Absolutely.
And I have gotten some nice messages.
They think you know we've had our recent new intro that people
are starting to hear. Now for the first few times as
we've gone through Us. And there was a question that I
got into my LinkedIn from Michael and he and I met, I
think it was last year maybe a year before at authenticate
conference and I'm going off memory.
So sorry, Michael, they got the details wrong but he was asking
because we had that if you remember we had this whole
conversation or what's difference between digital
identity and identity and access management.
Like so once if you want to thank and we were having a lot
of different discussions around that we've been having this same
discussion with like, even Sarah You know, recently in some
recent podcasts and he asked a really a really deep question
like in our intro, it talks about, you know, if it has
anything to do with I am this is the place and he was wondering
why we chose I am versus digital identity that context.
And I said well, you know, that's a very deep question,
first of all, and it's not very deep answer.
It was more on the lines of well, identity has a lot of
other connotations and Things like that.
So that was kind of out digital identity to me, still felt like
it was, I do not necessarily the industry term so rather than try
to confuse people is like, let's just most people know, I, you
know, whether or not they're using it in the right context,
or how we mean it was kind of a separate thing was like, okay,
well, I am a still like the go-to acronym for everything
that you and I talked about. So we kind of left it that, of
course, you know, things change, That's The Power of, you know,
opinions and things like that. We can always change it down the
road. But as That was a great
question. I mean if you think about some,
you know I mean if you think about some of the yesterday
we've had on the show folks like sarclarke and what she's working
on a MasterCard, I don't think that I don't think of that is I
am so Michaels. Probably right.
If if where he was going with it is like your shirt is really
more about digital identities. Probably.
Right. And it's also interesting that,
you know, we didn't think of this question sooner.
Like on our own, right? We listened to that clip for me,
that's the first time. I've actually thought of that
question. I'm like yeah we've listened to
that, that clip of the new intro over and over again, and that
didn't cross my mind wants sad for True, what we call it
identity at the center. We talk about identity access
management digital ID. I mean I think we're taking, you
know, I've taken a little bit of artistic license with it, right,
rather than calling like I am at the center or digitally to the
center. We just settle down Identity of
the center and then we bring it around with like what are we
talking about identity access you know things like that.
So I don't know maybe will change in the future who knows?
But I just spent money on it. I'm going to get some usage out
of it. We're gonna we're gonna keep the
same clip. It is still good question.
Yeah. Okay.
So why don't we go ahead and get into our topic for today?
Because we've got a really exciting actually conversation
because this is something we've touched on a couple of times.
I think, maybe in past, or maybe, maybe even just once I
think your gym your idea for this was the talk about sort of
the open source world when it comes identity and access
management and we have joining us today for the first time on
the show Igor Ferran each, he's the co-founder at evolved IAM
and want to welcome him to the show.
So welcome to the show Igor. Thanks for having me.
Yeah. So before we get too far along
here. Why don't we learn a little bit
more sort of out? Your identity origin story?
Can you tell us? How did you get?
Into the identity space, your co-founder of all the amount to
give you a chance to, I'm going to ask you about evolving in a
second. But how did you get into
identity? Is this something that you chose
or did it choose? You.
Yeah. Actually it tells me actually, I
was a Java developer back then and actually one day I met my
other co-founder rattled on someone cheek will lose already.
Several years into identity management back then and
actually buddy took several years to actually As for myself,
from a Java developer in tow identity developer and actually
the situation that change that was actually economic downturn
in 2008. And then we are looking for new
opportunities for actually to actually search for to make the
living. We had a lot of free time so we
experimented with out of Technologies and well produce,
go to market. But finally, we settled with it
point, and actually, So we found it.
Level Dome around me point in 2011.
So for people who aren't familiar with of all the, and
the midpoint product that you guys have, this is an open
source identity and access management technology.
Can you give us? Sort of like the 32nd to maybe
one minute elevator ride, you know, pitch.
We don't want to turn into a commercial but we're going to
will talk about it. But, you know, for those who
aren't familiar, introduced us to volume, yeah, actually I'll
be stuck see dozens technology company and And as a pure open
source company and we are still pure, open source tool today
actually we are open source. Is our mission is not only about
the open call to. It's also we are all opening,
all the ideas, all the documentation always base, we
helped publish a book to the public.
We are publishing also the methodologies to the public, and
also all the integration connectors coding and so on.
So you have through open source, believers.
Actually, I would say, oh, we are also a leader in open
source. IGA because if you are watching
the market guide, from Gartner or cooking, are there are no
other open-source components there on other products are.
So we are proud that we are a leader in open source.
IGA, I would say also of, we are building meet one, as a platform
to enable other solution to grow on top of midpoint, it's from
these days. It's so our hours of our
partners are building codes. Ocean ultimate point for
different market segments, actually, we are focusing on the
midpoint needs of the product and the platform.
And we have built a partnership Network on all on top of that,
where we are covering called, 45 different countries with our
partners. Were actually partners are those
that are doing the cells and actually, delivering the
implementation projects actually background Or so I want to start
the conversation around IGA at a very simplistic level and I'm
going to bounce Jeff because I'm going to hear what his
definition of this is as well. But in your words how would you
define IGA identity, governance and administration.
Actually personally, I think it's very to engine question by
beings that are all actually, you are looking for answers for
answers actually who has access to RN Y, and you have different
processes, bunch of processes around that to actually get
those answers. Basically, you are managing and
governing or managing identities, and governing the
organization. And yeah, this is how I actually
do. And actually, I have to talk to
that organizations to actually get better idea.
We saw looking for both specifically in these IGA space,
right? Yeah.
Sounds like from your perspective, you're saying,
well, it's less. How I Define IGA more, how my
clients to find energy a Jeff? I'm wondering, you know, same
question you, how do you define that ga Yeah, I mean I think you
cover the like some of the use cases.
I think about it from user lifecycle management.
Basically, in the audit stuff that goes behind, it, can you do
you know who has access to what? And can you prove it?
It is that access appropriate is appropriate.
I think those are some of the main things.
That's I think it's one of those glue technologies that sits
behind the scenes and, you know, if it's, if it's working the way
it's intended, it's almost invisible other than just maybe
a front-end interface that is, you know, providing a window
into, oh, here's Jim or hears it.
Igor. And, you know, they have these
different types of access and here's all the receipts that
we've kept indicating that as actually appropriate and was
approved and those sorts of things.
So I'm going to give my two cents here, I think of IgA, kind
of like I think of I am we referred.
I am as if it's one thing and I kind of always came from the
perspective that it was two things.
Identity management like IDM and access management am so it got
kind of shortened into one space identity and access management
to me, identity, governance and administration or actually I
think at one point We're calling the space iag and any
Administration governance. The idea is identity
Administration identity governance.
So I think the IDM identity management is really the
identity Administration, the idea that you have this group of
users that you centrally manage, you give them access and then
you provision that out to Applications, then came along
this identity. Governance space where the idea
was. Well now we want to know who has
access to what Not only did what did we provision out?
But what actually exists we pull all that together correlated to
a single identity and now you know whoever's interested in
knowing what access a person has has one place to go to know who
has access to what so to me that's the identity governance
but you know organizations need both they need that centralized
control to me. That's the identity
Administration side. So what I found I think with the
you know, IGA becoming so popular is that most
organizations are doing some level of IgA now.
So, the question that I wanted to ask you Igor is that the IGA
Market has so many companies. That are delivering IGA
Solutions, large Enterprises small, Enterprise different
industry focuses are there still populations of organizations
that are underserved? Yeah, I would say definitely.
Actually think this is one of the reasons we are here even
after 10 years of actually existence and we are actually
growing and I must say we are bootstrap company.
So actually we have to make the living out of that actually of
our product. Otherwise we've only been here.
Anymore. So, we have been trying to
identify, there are some market segments, some of them are Niche
segments, that and also communities that are
underserved. So I would say they'll be used
communities. Actually, those that are looking
for Open Source Ocean. So actually, if someone type
into Google open source, identity governance or identity
management actually, we are on the first page.
So that's actually great for us, then all there are.
So there is a So companies that are not looking explicitly into
open source, but actually for the benefits that actually, they
would like to download download, try and play with a profitable
product before. They adopt it before, they
prepare that the story and the message for the leadership in
your company to actually move forward with the project.
There are other underserved verticals like a small to medium
Enterprises. And there is a also, a very
specific group of very small car.
Companies that are all working operating in or regulated
environment. So, there are also under.
So companies, I would say today because everyone is going for a
fork out solution. So, we are also focusing on
those who customers that I would like to stay or either
on-premise or get infrastructure as a service solution and would
like to operate all the IGA that way.
Actually, we are not leaving. Also the cattle of the, I'm not
leaving that cloud customers behind.
Because so our partnership network is building called The
Cult ocean for a four different segments, new segments or
geographical locations to actually serve serve.
Those needs. So I would say pretty much still
a lot of customers that actually are looking for a four hours
ocean and actually, we are actively working with those
customers. They are helping us to build a
product and actually thanks to that.
We can expand to a Jets and Jason markets as well.
So thanks to God. We are growing.
Yeah, that's interesting. So you mention small mid-sized
Enterprises Jeff. I mean that's usually when we
work with larger Enterprises and they are looking at IGA, it's
usually to replace some system, whereas, a lot of times with
small to mid-sized, especially smaller or entry into mid-sized,
they're replacing paper processes, you know.
So that's what I see a lot. I kind of feel like the the big
holdup is either that or they just have finally gotten to the
point where it's like. Alright, we're at this breaking
point. We need automation or it's, you
know, what's held them back is really cost.
I mean, i j Solutions can be pretty expensive.
What's your take on that? Not me, it's, you hit it, right?
I think there's that natural inflection point where it's
like, okay, we're done taken faxes and we're going to start,
you know, doing things for an automation standpoint.
Do you build it? Do you buy it and if you build
it, what are you building it on? Is going to be something that's
already. Sort of pre-existing, you know,
open source Solutions, sort of like, you know what?
What Igor and evolving to bring to the table or I think tends to
happen more often. To this, you know, some
developer goes off and build some, you know, crazy system on
their own and now it becomes like, hey you just, you know,
you just built an IGA platform. If you're all windows already
products out there are things like that because you were
trying to save money or whatever maybe the next thing you know
it's ten years later and this solution that was designed to be
like a six-month stopgap has now, you know, become so
ingrained that it's very difficult to remove the
Enterprise or upgrade or maintain or anything like that.
So you know, really where the working with the client.
And they had a And this was a client called the merge remember
the merge. Yeah.
And we're going to get to kind of like, I think education right
probably makes a lot of sense of it.
Probably talk about that was partly conversation, but I'm
even thinking of, you know, there's one client I had way
back in the day that basically built and IGA platform on the
Mainframe and this is a full-featured system.
Like, it was, you know, sale point before sale Point like, 20
years ago, right? That that sort of, you know,
platform so and they were Really struggling with.
How do we move off of this? We don't have as many people who
are, you know, trained up on the Mainframe.
Those folks are starting to retire and it's kind of like the
coal Bowl. You know, people they were left
behind and then all of a sudden they're not demand again because
no one else knows their stuff. Yeah, I kind of feel like the
way a lot of commercial software gets built is that somebody has
a small consulting firm. They built a system for a
client. And then they say home, you
know, now we know how to build a system for managing and
Identities, let's turn into a commercial product.
I don't have any proof of that except what I've observed, but,
you know, back onto this IGA topic, you know, one of the
things that I don't know, I've kind of struggled with is that
Gardener, I think considers IGA as mature to the point where
they no longer publish the magic quadrant and I struggle with
that because I see a lot of stuff happening.
But, you know, let's just take for granted that it is a space.
That's reached a certain level of maturity.
My question too. Eager is how do you innovate in
a space? That's reached that level of
maturity, I'll throw Mark has matured.
That's what we are feeling that actually adoption locks box
behind. So there is still a lot of
opportunities for for actually adoption and actually deployment
of IgA Solutions and actually there are Any studies that show
actually out there from Big corporations, or independent
organization that actually are mentioning even the companies
are struggling even with basic processes for IGA.
So actually, and for us, it seems that actually the common
problem for every organization is collect data are not clean
enough to actually to deploy the solution.
I mean, the day. A time I didn't digital
identities are not good enough to actually, to actually start
adopting a product or a solution defined a solution.
So actually, this is one of our Focus that we see that
Innovation will happen that. Actually, we need to deploy the
product with any environments of start working with that
environment. Maybe start marking the
identities, to actually do not touch those four for some time
and actually equally for them identities.
Marcus to in the new can Cardboard need identities.
And and this kind of stuff. So we see a lot of innovation
bill on happen on the data site in this.
In this case, it's identities. Yeah.
Yeah, I think, you know, Innovation coming in many
different ways. I think, faster time to value is
certainly one. I think things like, how do you,
you know, get to the point of having cleaner data, I mean,
that you start getting value right away from that.
So, so that might be a transition to my next question,
which is really what are some of the biggest problems that
organizations face that in your in your experience?
What is the biggest problem that they face in?
In IGA we are strong Believers that we have to do something
about that. Identity style, quality of the
data and not to Ohio actually garbage in garbage out and
actually me out we are moving coal or are actually product to
actually Would be very effective to actually start working with
any identity. They copy, we will get in our
environment and actually, especially we have to be very
smart as far the effective about that because we are open source
and we have to bring value to the customers as soon as
possible to get the subscription because we are living out of the
subscription and we have very strong kind of motivation that
our customers will be Successful as soon as possible.
Yeah, I think garbage in garbage out is that's that's been the
same problem for the past 20 years so I can even add much of
that. Last question is area of IgA
which is around something. We've had some guests speak on
the the podcast about which is this idea of convergence, the
idea that IGA access management privileged access management
Cloud infrastructure entitlement management or kind of, kind of
converge into a single platform. Not sure if you agree with that
or not. My question to you is, you know,
what is the IGA market look like?
And, you know, five years down the road, ten years down the
road. Yeah, actually, I partially
agree with that some solution built or actually matching tool
angle because offering, but actually for that, for example,
for Access for ssl's and access management, we see there are so
many He products out there and I reorganization using something
different. So we rather see that actually
it's a complementary products to IGA and we see that there will
be integration so be prepared all interfaces for this kind of
integration. And I will thanks to open
source. We are able to have the
documentation, how to integrate, different SSO, sorbets point.
So it's working great for us of then for the convergence, for L
cloud. I'm not sure what will happen in
the next couple of years because there are also strong movements
that some organization are moving out of the cloud.
Like to die on premise infrastructure so we will see
what will happen in the coming years and there is another
moment I would say we see that some thanks to a I break through
and check the GPT actually. This is working very well for us
because we are keeping all the knowledge out there for free in
the public domain and one can't rent a given the chat CP.
Modell to actually own our data and actually this model can
answer and help engineers and developers to actually match to
that point midpoint much faster and I would say they're the some
Innovation will happen there, you know, in the beginning it
will help you to actually you don't have to Google for for to
go for some, some simple answers but you will ask gbt but your I
still say I will train more then I can imagine that if you would
like to connect some system that is not so common, it will
extract the actually type of protocols from the ideal extract
desk map for from the system. It will take the inspiration
from the existing connectors called bill, which we have
actually tensor for collectors out there that are in the open
source domain. And actually, it will propose
you or code will be your pair program.
To develop a new connector with you.
And actually, it was speed out of effort and expect special.
It will help you with polar protic plate configuration for
any Open Source Ocean and actually help you or even to
write the integration code. So that's actually great and
it's working great for us. And yeah, I'm happy about that.
Yeah, I'm fascinated by the recent advancements with the
natural language processing. Assessing the AI, right?
Jackie b. T Lambda things like that.
It, I'm excited by it. I'm a little disappointed that
my idea for a chatbot like, 10 years ago, as like a front end
for an IJ platform. Was something that I just never
pursued because I can certainly see the option.
I was like, you're totally right.
I was like in, you know, in a decade two decades, whatever it
might be, people probably won't be writing code, they will be
asking a, i, to do something for them.
And behind the scenes, the magic is You know, taking the taking
the intent of the request factoring together, you know
what? That package looks like and then
delivering. Yeah, here's what your
integrated looks like, right? Hey, we need an integrator for.
I don't know. I'm is an OCTA to be able to do
some sort of, you know, chapter management for nonprofit, you
know, sort of exist today. But not really like here.
Let's Cobble something together. They having having that as a
functionality, is cool. And we'll certainly, I think
accelerate Deployment methodologies and things like
that. When it comes to the open source
side of the world, though, we're dealing with models in the, in
the AI space that are not necessarily open source, right?
There are the property of certain organizations, I guess,
how do you balance that open-source sort of mentality.
Versus, you know, maybe you will might be proprietary AI models
or other parts of the product. Yeah.
Actually, there are some generate a eyes that actually
Help you tune your configure, the midpoint, for example, or
actually write some borrow boilerplate code.
But actually, there is still a space for Innovation to build AI
inside the product. Like, for example, I cannot
imagine changing particular help you to actually read role mining
for your organization. So it's so specific problem that
you will still need to have a, some kind of statistical model
or a our machine learning to actually have it.
That there are also other issues So like, for example, if you
help banjo Factory, boost that you call Accounts or identities
and need to correlate those that actually, this is a specific
problem that actually you need some kind of recommender system
with feedback loop and building to the product where you
actually need that to actually improve over the time to
actually see or speed up the correlation and clean up your
data. And there are also some some
other ways where you can improve and help protect specific AI
actually we are Working Klein, experimenting Covetous, felt
kind of statistical models already.
And yeah, we see there. There will be benefits for for
the clients as well here. So you got me on the side track,
where the AI, we've got a joke, we've been calling this, a, i at
the center for the last few weeks because it keeps coming
up. I think it's just where we're
at. For me, you know, hey, as of,
you know, February and March 20 2003, this is this, what's
happened to be in those kind of a, the Zeitgeist I want to Pivot
back to the open. Source question because I think
this is something that's relatively unique, right?
Yeah. In especially, in the IGA Space
is having an open and open source IG a product, I guess,
how do you define what open source means?
And I guess what makes the software open source, is it the
the software itself is it? The documentation is that the,
the, the openness of the, the coding to allow people to pick
it apart and take the parts that they want?
How do you define it? Yeah.
Actually the pants who you are actually for some kind of
developer or Engineers, it's all open code and a principal I
documentation of methodologies. Knowledge base is very important
but for, for some other, so that all open as in, that'll be in
the way that actually you can or try it downloaded configure, it
yourself and actually move forward when you are ready for
some their directs, you know, this Um, typical open eyes
inside, eyes, actually, increasing Innovation or
security. But actually I have to agree
with the increased security like, for example there is get
out that is scanning the well this all the source code, the
repository is actually the dependencies that salon and
actually helping you to actually avoid security issues before
something bad happens. Like, you know, you all if you
are using some some library that It's already than Factory some
security problem. You know, you can upgrade and
you don't even have to log into the code.
So that that's actually great. We see, it's actually happening.
And thanks to many Open Source. Ocean.
Even get habit. Since improving very well in
these open domain, and I would say, actually very important
part of Open Source is also Community.
It's actually can be well different.
Cohort dot are strengthening that Edie ideas are following
and actually, there is a collaboration.
So, I would say communities, crucial, part of the open
source. Yeah, definitely gives the
strength right as you have multiple people looking at it
and picking apart, make sure that it's the strongest product
possible and is as clean as possible to from a coding
perspective. I think there is also, and I
think this is a misprint misconception.
Is that open sources Free gym is famous.
I don't know who said it originally, but I'll tribute at
the gym is free. Is it a puppy?
You know, there is a lot of caring feeling that sort of, you
know, goes along with it from a support perspective or maybe,
you know, other components, I guess, what's your perspective
on, you know, is open source free and I guess what's free?
And what's not free when people are thinking about, hey, yeah,
maybe open source is the way you want to go because we think will
save money or maybe what their assumptions are really are what
the way they should be. About it.
How do you how do you portray that?
Yeah, that's a very good question actually.
I would say open source was never free and open source has
gone a long ways actually in the early days out of people helped
paid by their health for actually for maintaining the
open source but it has changed over the last decade and I would
say, open source has child different structure of expenses.
So sometimes you are saving some, some effort or money or
whatever, but actually the expense is always there.
Someone has to pay the salaries so pay for for for the time of
the people and I would say our story of.
So we have decided that you can do whatever you want with our
product but actually the breaking point is any actual you
would like to work with us, spend our time And actually did
that there is a strong boundary that actually you have to pay
for the services in form of flap subscriptions.
Move what type of organization typically does the busted open
source, because I think Jim and I kind of hid it earlier is the
education space. Seems to be pretty big on open
source. We see things like grouper and
shibboleth, and sort of things like that.
That's out there as well, that are very unique to those spaces.
I think there's a natural tendency to shift towards that
when it comes to those. Those sorts of Institutions is
do you agree with that? Are there other, you know,
organization types or Industries are verticals that tend to see
better success with an open source approach versus of?
That's maybe more commercial based Yeah.
Actually I mentioned already some some market segments Bill.
Well they're actually all open source these much more
successful and I will dad. Also there are all very large
organizations that are having very unique needs and actually
one of the benefits to actually go for.
Open source is also possibility to influence their Alma and
actually all that way it's working.
The product is working for these very large organization as as
they need and there is Another benefit of for very large or
identities sites that all open source product is scaling much
better from economic point of view.
So there and there's another benefit for them.
And I would say these days, I'll actually, you know, when we were
starting level, we have seen a lot of struggles, even in the
purchasing department, how to actually buy the open source and
so on actually, but all during the covid actually.
I don't know what happened but the adoption of Open Source also
improved our load. I've actually they are not this
question that were before and actually if organization is so
called a Open Source, Ocean is working for the for the
organization. They just find a way how to
actually purchase the subscription.
So if you think rolling, that's interesting that you felt like
you saw. It sounds to me like you saw an
uptick in the open source world when covid hit I wonder if that
was because more people had time to spend at home you know kind
of learning it. Or I guess what do you attribute
that to other than it was just the right place right time.
I don't think it's cause he's related each out.
Still. When we realized that actually
it's happening even in the IJ space and yeah actually I would
say it's not only about the IGA actually.
It's so age of Open Source outside so that there are also
Studies done where you can find that actually Solutions and
product Builds on open-source are actually, you know, you know
progressing and scaling very well.
If you are you wanted to just go back to one thing that you
stated that you see some organizations moving back away
from the cloud. I think the overall trend that
that I'm seeing any way is the opposite but I'm wondering what
what are you seeing that? As Is making you say hmm.
Some organizations are actually backing away from and I'm not
sure if you meant like Cloud as in software as a service or
infrastructure as a service or bit of both.
Actually, what I'm seeing, these actually infrastructure as a
service itself or some organization needs to looks
expensive to operate in this environment and actually when
you wake up from a infrastructure-as-a-service then
maybe you'll back up also from software as a service.
So We will see. Actually, maybe that's that will
be a trend maybe not but actually it's not so important
for us. We still have actually other
segments where we can grow and actually, yeah, we are happy.
So you're even really generous with your time and when I start
to get things wrapped up, I think you're the first guest
that we've had on from Slovakia. So first of all thank you for,
you know, for taking time in your day to or maybe in your
evening at this point, to be part of this.
I had a question around and people know me I like to eat and
we like to talk about food on this and I wanted to ask about
the Slovakian and if it's a dish or meal and you'll help me with
this and please forgive my pronunciation but brings of a
house key, can you explain what that is and educate Jim in
myself and others? Yeah yeah yeah actually brings
over Houston. He's a very national dish in
Slovakia and basically, it's very traditional meal taxol is
made out of potatoes. Like actual, you are eating very
small, no cheese with a cheese, but this cheap cheese is called
greens out and it's very special.
It's very soft, and actually you are drinking.
That with Gene chizik jeans jeans, Jean cheetah.
Very traditional drink, also very specific.
And that zika is made from hitting sheep's milk as well.
So it's kind of like I think the idea is you have nothing goes to
waste this sort of part of this dish, right?
Yeah, exactly. So is it, you know what, it
wasn't clear to me is that alcoholic, is it, fermented as
are things added to it, or is it more of a milk base type, you
know, non-alcoholic beer and it's non-alcoholic beverage?
Well, they do well nothing's perfect.
So you actually okay, you'll candy you can eat the brains of
a house key with bacon. It's very, very tasty.
I was going to ask because I think you mentioned, like, the
Meucci I've heard like on Onions, I've heard chives, I've
heard bacon, obviously the the cheese itself and what I hear,
you're something is like a national dish.
I guess is it popular with locals or is this something
that's like, yeah, it's a national dish, but locals,
really, don't eat. It is, I guess how popular is
it, you know, to actually eat it as a Saluki Yeah, either you
love it or hate it actually I love it so I'm eating that
pretty often. Okay Jim.
You're in Augusta Georgia. Any native I guess dishes to
your area of the woods. Yeah.
So they have something in the South and I don't know if it's
native to Augusta called pimento cheese.
I've never tried it so I don't want to criticize it too much
but it doesn't look like something.
I'd like to eat. Eat.
Of course we have like soul food and lots of fried chicken.
I think that's common across the South.
But one thing because I'm going to Gus though home of the
Masters Golf Tournament, something that's famous that
they do at the Augusta National. The the home of the Masters is
they still sell sandwiches for $1 and there's our egg salad
sandwiches. Another food like to me that
just eggs, I don't think make good sandwiches But that's just
that's just me man. I mean, you know, when I was
over in Holland for a while, they put eggs on sandwiches,
like hard-boiled eggs which it's only one step from exiled,
right? It's just missing the
mayonnaise. But I don't know.
I just it's just not the kind of dish that strikes me as
something I'd like. So I haven't tried them yet.
A $1 egg salad sandwich in the middle of Georgia.
Heat does not sound to me like a very refreshing.
Well, here's the thing, I must be a money loser because I mean
they're not going to you know they get to the college's
thousands. Yeah right exactly they get
thousands of dollars for you know?
Coming to the event. And you know, it's it's more or
less what Augusta or semesters all about is tradition.
And so at some point they started the tradition of $1 egg
salad sandwiches. I'm sure became a money loser
but they kept doing it anyway. So that that part that aspect, I
find pretty cool. I just wish it was something
that, you know, I'd want to eat. We mentioned the potential
cheese that's definitely something that South as A recent
North Carolina transplant. I see it everywhere.
I do not care for it so I'm not on that bandwagon at all.
Have you lived in Chicago area for, you know, 40 years or so?
You know, it's Pizza. It's hot dogs and Chicago style,
it's bratwurst Polish sausage, you know, kind of things like
that, you know, I'll leave North Carolina and I think of
barbecue, man, like, pulled for, haven't found a really good
barbecue place yet. We've had this conversation.
I'm a little bit disappointed with Barbecue that I've so far
experience. Generally speaking in North
Carolina there was at one spot outside of Charlotte.
I mentioned but I found better barbecue in Chicago, so I'm
going to throw the gauntlet down.
If you've got a recommendation for Asheville North, the North
Carolina area for barbecue. Hit me up because I am on the
hunt. Someone else will have to hit
you up on that. But I lived in the Charlotte
area for about eight years and in Mooresville, which is the
headquarters of NASCAR there is a barbecue place, there is just
fantastic. I would go there you know every
week every other week and pulled pork sandwiches were always my
order. Well it's so versatile, right?
You've got pork, you got beef, you've got chicken.
I mean you could eat barbecue every day the week and I have
the same you know? The same dish.
That's right. That's right.
And coleslaw. Do you like coleslaw?
Nope, my wife, does I hate it? So in North Carolina they have
like those yellow cold. Slaw.
I think they put mustard and I think maybe it's egg yolks.
That doesn't make it better. That makes it worse.
It makes a really much better. It's wonderful.
And they put her in a 2-0. See now it's just getting stupid
and crazy. Igor, do you have any thoughts
on barbecue? Actually my brother is doing
great barbecue so if you'll visit so bakiyev and a, so just
give me a call and we can have a good barbecue together.
Alright, now we're going to take, take the podcast on the
road like that would be very cool.
All right, we're gonna go ahead and wrap it up for this week
Igor. Thank you so much for spending
time with us. Really appreciate you taking
time out of the day. Jim for yourself as well.
Always appreciate it. We always have good
conversations. You can visit us the show.
Self online. Where idac podcast.com?
We're on Twitter at IDC podcast. I'll have some links in the show
notes as well so that people can check out and connect with Igor
on LinkedIn. You check out of all the M which
is e vo L ve you m.com. So you can learn more about what
they're doing you know, in the open source World specially with
the midpoint product of the IGA side of things.
And I forgot to mention we are also on Macedon at idac podcast
at infosec that exchange and hopefully we'll have Some
familiar faces friendly faces at the Gartner Summit here in a
week or so. And I don't forget to hit that
like And subscribe button and we'll go and leave it there and
talk with everyone in the next one.
You've been listening to Identity at the center.
We hope you've enjoyed the show, make sure to like rate and
review and we'll be back soon, but in the meantime, hit the
website at identity at the center.com and find us on
Twitter at ID. GAC podcast, see you next time
on identity at the center