1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:10,440 This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with 2 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:17,960 IAM, this is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and 3 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:23,080 Jeff Stedman. Welcome to the Identity at the 4 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:24,840 Center podcast. I'm Jeff and that's Jim. 5 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:26,560 Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff, how are you? 6 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,000 Oh, not so bad yourself. I'm doing great, man. 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,720 I feel like we have a real treat here today. 8 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,000 I think identity at the center is the the home of the identity 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,240 legends. We've got another identity 10 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,560 legend with us here today. This man, you look at his 11 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:46,040 LinkedIn profile, it's like, it's like if Tom Brady had a 12 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,120 LinkedIn profile. Now, I know maybe I'm overhyping 13 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,880 it a little bit, but he's also from Boston, so I figured, you 14 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:54,480 know, there's a little bit of a connection there. 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,960 But I mean, I don't want to give away all the details, right? 16 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,000 That's what the show's for. But I mean, this is going to be 17 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,360 a fantastic episode. I mean, it's in the show title, 18 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:04,879 so at this point you really can't spoil it. 19 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:07,920 But yeah, we, we definitely have a great get today. 20 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,400 So we like to say the business we've got another sponsor 21 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,200 Spotlight episode for those aren't aware these are special 22 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,640 episodes that we create with our sponsors. 23 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,120 It's something we do in collaboration, gives us more of 24 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,680 an opportunity to kind of deep dive into special products, 25 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,080 services, whatever it may be in the industry. 26 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,080 So kind of gives us you know a little more deeper than we would 27 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,880 normally go in a in a in a normal episode so fully 28 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,280 sponsored. Today's sponsor is Zilla 29 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,400 Security. They are working on making 30 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,400 identity security simple for all of us. 31 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,120 And joining us today we do have Deepak Teneja. 32 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,840 He's ACEO and Co Founder at Zilla Security. 33 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:43,840 Welcome to the show, Deepak. Thank you. 34 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,360 Hi, Jeff. Hi, Jim. 35 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,600 Great to be here. Thanks for having me on the 36 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,520 podcast. So Jim mentioned that you're the 37 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,520 you might be the Tom Brady of I am I don't I that feels like 38 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,400 that is either good or bad depending on who you might be in 39 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,480 the world because there's a lot of love and hate for Tom Brady. 40 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:00,960 But let's start with your identity background, because it 41 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:02,880 is long and illustrious and we'll probably have some 42 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:04,080 questions about that along the way. 43 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,160 But tell us a little bit, how did you get into the world of 44 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,199 identity and access management? Is it something that you chose 45 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:12,920 or did it choose you? Yeah, Well, thanks for the kind 46 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:14,760 words first. Yeah. 47 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,160 And the comparison with Tom Brady, I don't know about that. 48 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:22,480 He's not, he's not super popular in Boston these days, but so I 49 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,840 got started in identity management back in the 80s. 50 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:33,360 I was a a developer working on security and authentication and 51 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,520 directory services before there was a security space. 52 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:46,400 So and I found it intriguing. It was the idea that you know 53 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,480 all of these network services, file services, print services 54 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,240 and so on. This was the early days of the 55 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,320 Internet that they were all coming up and the idea that at 56 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:01,120 the center of it all was identity was was super 57 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,160 intriguing to me. And that's that's sort of what 58 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,960 got me into it. So you've been working on 59 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,520 identity for let's see 40 some years. 60 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,640 I feel like Jim and I, you're like 20 years each I there's 61 00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:14,160 there's a lot of identity. Know how on this on this session 62 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,560 right now I guess tell us a little bit more about Zilla 63 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,840 security. You're CEO and a Co founder. 64 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,560 First of all for people who aren't familiar with Zilla, tell 65 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,680 us about Zilla and then tell us a little bit about your role. 66 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,280 What does ACEO and a Co founder do for an identity company? 67 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,880 Yeah. So let me sort of link up the 68 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,440 dots there. So you know, as I said, I was 69 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,280 started out as a developer in the identity, security, identity 70 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,440 and security space. But I've been doing startups now 71 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,760 for for 25 years and this is actually Zilla's actually my 72 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,760 third identity startup. So starting with a company 73 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:57,680 called Nitigrity way back in the early days of the Internet where 74 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:02,800 we we actually created the 1st LDAP enabled single sign on 75 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,800 solution out there and our our products did very well in the 76 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,880 market. And then Natality was acquired 77 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,520 by Computer Associates started another identity company called 78 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:18,200 Avexa which was perhaps the first first company in the 79 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,680 identity governance space. So we called it access 80 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:25,360 governance back then and this was of course the mid 2000s when 81 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,400 Compliance was starting to become a big deal and Identity 82 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,400 compliance was something everyone needed. 83 00:04:30,840 --> 00:04:38,600 So you know Avexa as well sort of the Avexa products did really 84 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,920 well in the marketplace. Ultimately we were acquired by 85 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:46,260 RSA. So Zilla is a company that my Co 86 00:04:46,260 --> 00:04:52,080 founder and I started in 2019 realizing that Identity had sort 87 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,600 of become much more business critical than it was 10/15/20 88 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,880 years ago. You know, the cloud had made 89 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:03,880 Identity the new security perimeter and that that fact 90 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:08,960 brought with it this notion of organizations really needing to 91 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:14,880 think about identity as as not just in terms of an identity 92 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:20,120 provider, not just in terms of establishing the identity of a 93 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,640 security principal, but also in terms of locking down the access 94 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,280 that identities had. And so we we, we came up with 95 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,240 the idea that this is really identity security. 96 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,280 So while the last 10-15 years in the cloud era has been about 97 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,400 identity providers, the next 10-15 years are going to be, 98 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,480 it's going to be about identity security providers, right. 99 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,200 And in some sense that's the next generation of identity 100 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,960 governance. So the identity governance and 101 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:55,840 administration space was driven by compliance and driven by life 102 00:05:55,840 --> 00:06:00,320 cycle management of access. But what's changed now with the 103 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,680 new security parameter is, you know, identity security has 104 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,480 become a key piece of that of that equation and cloud scale 105 00:06:08,840 --> 00:06:13,360 demands automation beyond what the last generation of identity 106 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,360 governance solutions needed to provide. 107 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,920 So, so a lot has changed and really Zilla, the idea behind 108 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:24,480 Zilla is think in terms of locking down the permissions, 109 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:29,120 locking down the access that people, machines and AP is have 110 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,960 to enterprise resources and do that in a way that supports 111 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,320 security initiatives, compliance initiatives and IT initiatives 112 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,600 around provisioning, deprovisioning and so on. 113 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,320 So I'm curious about the name Zilla Security. 114 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,720 I'm always fascinated by how these names get picked. 115 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,880 How did the name Zilla Security come to be? 116 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:50,360 What's the the genesis behind it? 117 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:55,120 Yeah, so there's actually 2 two reasons why we picked that name. 118 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,560 First, we wanted to be the Godzilla of of the identity 119 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,560 space and the Godzilla of of identity security. 120 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,560 Right. So, so that Godzilla got 121 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:09,040 shortened to zilla. And 2nd, the word zilla in in 122 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:14,880 South Asia means district. So you know we thought it was 123 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:19,480 quite appropriate to think about district security, right? 124 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,680 So it was zilla security. So so we kind of came up with 125 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,800 that from from 2 angles and and the name was sort of bandied 126 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,600 around for a while and then it just stuck. 127 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,560 I don't want to keep bringing up the legend term and maybe we 128 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,400 won't use Tom Brady, Maybe it's Roger Federer. 129 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,560 I knew you're a tennis guy, so maybe we'll just use that. 130 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,520 But to me it was like what really jumped out about that 131 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:47,320 was, you know, Nettegrity was one of the biggest people on the 132 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,080 block. When I had my very first 133 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:56,560 project, it was like Nettegrity obliques and I think IBM 134 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,480 solution was already out at that time, right? 135 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,000 I mean those are the big like choices in identity and there 136 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,960 really wasn't much else. I think Sun had something at 137 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,960 that point already too. So around like O3O4 and then 138 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,760 Avexa, I mean Avexa was the next big kid on the block was 139 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,600 Sailpoint, right? And now you're creating a new 140 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,360 startup that's going to go ahead and compete in that. 141 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,400 Really, what's a crowded market? That identity governance market 142 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,320 is kind of crowded and you're going to be competing against 143 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,000 one of those firms that you know originally or products that you 144 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,760 originally started up. I guess I'm wondering how does 145 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:38,200 Zilla differentiate itself from the others in this space and 146 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,960 what what's kind of the gap that you're solving? 147 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,920 What is the gap in the market that you saw, saw and said OK, 148 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,040 we can come up with a better mouse trap to solve this 149 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,520 problem. Yeah, that's a really good 150 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,200 question. You know the space as we as we 151 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,440 just discussed, identity governance has been around for a 152 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:02,080 while, but it's been, it's been you know it was the design 153 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,600 center was on Prem, it was very professional services centric, 154 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,560 very the solutions, most solutions in this space are very 155 00:09:10,560 --> 00:09:15,720 hard to deploy, very hard to use, very hard to integrate with 156 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:21,480 with enterprise applications and as I was saying focused mostly 157 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,000 on compliance and life cycle management, right. 158 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,840 So in this cloud era, the opportunity we saw was to bring 159 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,680 security into the mix to add a whole lot of automation. 160 00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:37,600 So the whole company is focused on innovating in terms of 161 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:42,840 automation and we've started, you know, without AI and now 162 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,880 we're infusing the platform with AI. 163 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,760 And then finally, you know, making identity governance 164 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,280 simple, right. It's it's been too hard to 165 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,040 deploy. It's you know, organization 166 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,480 stock in terms of an identity journey. 167 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,160 In fact, the vendors talk about an identity journey, and the 168 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,400 word journey really is a euphemism for pain, right? 169 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,640 It shouldn't be a three-year, five year, eight-year journey. 170 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:13,680 Yes, you know these solutions and large organizations, there's 171 00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:17,440 a there's a fair bit of organizational complexity and it 172 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:21,080 takes a while to herd the cats and get everyone on the same 173 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,560 table. But organizations should be 174 00:10:23,560 --> 00:10:27,240 getting value inside weeks, inside two months, three months, 175 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:32,000 six months, right? So our solution was designed 176 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,520 from day one to be really easy to use, really easy to deploy 177 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,160 something you know, we think the whole world is going to need. 178 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,000 Businesses of all size are going to need an identity security 179 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,800 solution just like businesses of all size need identity providers 180 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,000 today, right. That identity is the security 181 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,720 perimeter. If you don't lock down that 182 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:56,080 perimeter in terms of access, if you if you don't have your 183 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,960 privilege controls in place across the enterprise, you know 184 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,760 you're you're asking, you're asking for a breach and and 185 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:04,240 that's what's playing out out there. 186 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,400 If you look at all the data breaches happening across the 187 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,880 world, they're all rooted in identity and access exposures of 188 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:15,160 some kind or another, right. So so how does how does how do 189 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:19,120 all these organizations of different sizes truly go off and 190 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:23,640 deploy a a solution that can lock down the perimeter, lock 191 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,760 down the perimeter and at the same time you know serve the 192 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:33,320 compliance needs, serve the IT needs around joiners, movers, 193 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,080 levers. You know there's identity is 194 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,600 this holistic is now this holistic layer that has to get 195 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,080 deployed properly across the organization and identity 196 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:46,920 providers are a key piece of that. 197 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,680 We see ourselves being the identity security provider 198 00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:54,000 that's going to step out of the mix and complement the identity 199 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,320 providers out there. Deepak, you threw a lot of good 200 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,520 brick crumbs out there. We'll get to all of those. 201 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,560 But before we go down that route, I want to bring you back 202 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:08,360 because one of the things, OK, you've got this crowded market 203 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,600 and I'm wondering what your approach was. 204 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,160 It's not like you went and acquired some company that had a 205 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,920 customer list, right, and that you're just basically building 206 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,080 from there. So my question to you is what's 207 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,440 kind of what was your approach to the market? 208 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,240 Did you go for the, you know, are you focused on the Fortune 209 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,920 500 or even bigger organizations? 210 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,720 Did you start with going after like building a solution for the 211 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,640 middle market? What was the approach for Zilla 212 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,920 Security? Yeah. 213 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,840 So our approach was, you know let's start with the companies 214 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,520 that care about the cloud the most, right. 215 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,760 So let's start with cloud centric companies and and over 216 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,000 time will address the hybrid organizations, right. 217 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:59,440 So and and if you if you go back, so we started in 2019 and 218 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,480 if you go, if you go back and think about where most companies 219 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,080 have been, the really large companies still have lots of on 220 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,920 Prem applications but it's these smaller organizations you know 221 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,800 the mid market, the low end of the enterprise that's almost 222 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,920 entirely cloud centric today. So that's sort of where we 223 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,960 started and we said OK let's go to them, let's not take on the 224 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,960 on Prem mess inside most companies, right. 225 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,600 Let's provide those cloud centric companies with with 226 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,000 identity security, with identity governance with the security 227 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,720 compliance and join a mover lever automation they're looking 228 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,320 for. But over the last year and a 229 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,160 half we've been going up market right and so now we're starting 230 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,120 to go into the hybrid organizations. 231 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,480 We're starting to support the on Prem environments, the on Prem 232 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,760 applications and we're starting to tackle the broader needs of 233 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,320 larger enterprises and and that you know we're still not going 234 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,680 after the the massive organizations in the world, but 235 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:06,000 you know in in 2024 we're going to start heading in that in that 236 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,400 direction. Yeah, I mean I was introduced to 237 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,400 Zillow security actually by one of my clients and they started 238 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:15,800 showing me around the the platform and you know, I don't 239 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:20,120 think you'll have to go after the large mega corporation. 240 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,200 I think they'll come after you you know they'll find the the 241 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:29,080 solution and reach out to you but kind of what you just went 242 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,400 through there and I think it it's probably obvious to me the 243 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:37,320 benefit to the buyer is really like OK you you've everybody's 244 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,720 trying to be cloud first I shouldn't say everybody but the 245 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,800 majority of organizations are and I think a lot of that on 246 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,680 Prem infrastructure for a lot of organizations is things that 247 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:50,560 don't translate well to the cloud. 248 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:55,520 But if you're kind of taking that to clients that you've 249 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,400 already kind of solved most of the cloud space, I would imagine 250 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:04,360 that's a large part of the the value proposition as you as you 251 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,680 move through that strategy, would you agree with that? 252 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,160 Yeah, absolutely. You know the the larger 253 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,760 organizations have a growing cloud presence. 254 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:17,360 They're using infrastructure platforms like AWS, Azure, GCP. 255 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,920 They're using SAS applications. They still have the on Prem 256 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:26,520 infrastructure on Prem data, but what they need is essentially 257 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,240 identity fabric. Fabric's a popular word these 258 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,360 days that works across the board, right. 259 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,560 It doesn't really make sense to have a a solution that just 260 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,320 works on Prem and a solution that just works in the cloud. 261 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,920 It's it's identity is a holistic, it needs to be a 262 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:47,440 holistic solution. So, so our approach is while our 263 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,440 you know while we run out of the cloud ourselves is to provide 264 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:56,160 ways to to actually integrate seamlessly with with 265 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:00,400 applications and infrastructure both in the cloud as well as as 266 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,320 well as on Prem. And that that integration issue 267 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,400 actually is perhaps the biggest differentiator we have right. 268 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,400 We make that, you know the last mile has all has always been a 269 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,360 huge pain in identity management. 270 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,680 So we focused very hard on making sure that integrations 271 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,320 are drop dead easy. You know it doesn't matter 272 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,760 whether an application has a REST API or not. 273 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,080 You know, we can integrate with it and we can integrate with it 274 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,680 so easily that in 5 minutes someone can build a connector to 275 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,920 an application that's driving, in addition to the simplicity of 276 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,960 the solution and the automation, that that integration issue is 277 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,680 driving a lot of our success. So I think that's a perfect 278 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,520 segue into, I want to ask some questions around the product 279 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,160 itself. And I think one of the key 280 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,360 features that I've seen out of it and when I remember I saw it, 281 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,080 I was like, oh, that's pretty neat, was this idea of 282 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,200 introducing RPA or robotic process automation into tools 283 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,200 like this, which is not something that I've seen before 284 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,040 with, you know, other other players in the market. 285 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,160 And you've got this thing called Zeus, which one excellent name 286 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,960 can't go wrong with that Zus, Zilla. 287 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,160 Universal Sync, I guess for people who aren't familiar with 288 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,400 what that is, can you talk a little bit more about Zeus and 289 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,960 how that fits into sort of the master plan for for Zilla? 290 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,040 Yeah. The challenge for us, you know, 291 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,560 in the early days was if we're going to provide an identity 292 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,280 security solution, it has to work with the entire tax 293 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,240 surface, right? So when we started connecting 294 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,120 with companies, they said, you know, I've got, I've got 295 00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:37,120 applications, home grown applications, I've got legacy 296 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:39,600 applications, I have applications, lots of 297 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,960 applications that don't have REST APIs. 298 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:46,000 And what all the vendors are talking about is, is REST API 299 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,160 integrations. We need you to help us with, not 300 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,680 just with REST APIs, but with all the apps that don't have 301 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,680 REST APIs, right. So that's where the robotic 302 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,440 process automation came in, right? 303 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,600 We spend a lot of time trying to figure out, OK, how do we 304 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:05,280 seamlessly and easily extract the accounts and entitlements, 305 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,360 the granular entitlements, the group memberships, the roles, 306 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,920 what have you from applications of all kinds, right? 307 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,920 And infrastructure elements of all kinds. 308 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,320 And that led us to this idea that the one place where that 309 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,880 information is always available is in some sort of 310 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,880 administrative console or administrative user interface 311 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,680 for that, for that system, right. 312 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:34,840 So, and we said, well, since the web has become, you know, the 313 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,640 common user interface for these applications, if there's a way 314 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:44,440 for us to parse HTML and figure out what the most common themes 315 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,480 are, what the most common approaches are to displaying 316 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,520 accounts and entitlements and roles and so on, we can actually 317 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,720 crack the snot. And so we spend a long time 318 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:58,040 trying to figure that out and you know, the result is, is 319 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:02,440 Zeus, right. So it is, it is, it is very cool 320 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,200 robotic automation that just works. 321 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,560 You can, you know, deploy it super easily. 322 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:14,160 You can authenticate with with whatever your authentication MFE 323 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:19,080 environment is that can bring up, bring up systems, extract 324 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,960 the data and send it securely over to Zilla. 325 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:27,440 And that that helps us deal with all kinds of systems that that 326 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,840 organizations are struggling with today. 327 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,000 I'm going to barge. In here because this was what 328 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,160 was demonstrated to me again by client, someone who was 329 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,960 responsible for access reviews. And I said, look, can you show 330 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,360 me what this Zilla tool can actually do? 331 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,600 And he brought me and he said, yeah, sure. 332 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:51,160 So imagine I have this application that I need to do an 333 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,960 access review of and it's this cloud application. 334 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,440 And I go in here and Dezilla and it's like within 30 seconds he 335 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,440 had kind of the campaign defined. 336 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,480 And then he went out to the app and like, I don't remember 337 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,040 exactly what it how it worked, but I think there might have 338 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:11,160 been like a ribbon bar over the app and they went into user 339 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,440 management for the. App. 340 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:18,040 And then it asked them like highlight the area where the 341 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,480 users are or usernames are and highlight the area where the 342 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,000 e-mail addresses are and highlight the area where the 343 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,640 entitlements are. And then it was like, now it 344 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:35,000 just basically created a access review based on, like, you know, 345 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,000 a business user going in there, not writing a script of like, 346 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,440 hey, hit this API and and take this Jason file and tear it 347 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,680 apart. It was like, just go into the 348 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,600 page and like, draw these squares over the data. 349 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,800 And it was like, I've never seen anything like that. 350 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,960 I mean, and Deepak, I know I'm like probably oversimplifying it 351 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,520 a little bit, but, you know, I think I was more technical than 352 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,720 this user. And I know I'm not the most 353 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,560 technical person, but it was like, you know, OK, pretty much 354 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,760 anybody who knows how to use a computer these days can do that. 355 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,200 Am I describing it? Well, yeah, you. 356 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,360 Described it very well and that's what our customers love. 357 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:20,400 You know, it's very easy for for for an application owner or or a 358 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:26,200 security staff or anyone to just create a web recipe for, for 359 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,120 bringing data out of out of a system that doesn't have a REST 360 00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:32,720 API. And it sort of goes back to the, 361 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,720 you know the idea of automation. It's you know this is automation 362 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,520 that that enables comprehensive integration across the 363 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,080 enterprise. But we've we've tried to kind of 364 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,680 infuse the the product, our solution with with automation 365 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,560 across the board. Automation to make it easier for 366 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,440 stakeholders to deploy our solution, automation to to 367 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:02,800 enable IT reviewers to make decisions more easily, security 368 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,040 people to define policies more easily. 369 00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:10,120 Automation to leverage tools like identity providers or ITSM 370 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:15,040 systems or or security operation centers automation to measure 371 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,320 business outcomes. So you know that's I think 372 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,560 that's the direction the space is taking it is you know 373 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,720 organizations have certain outcomes, business outcomes in 374 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,160 mind and you know they need to get, they need to get to those 375 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,640 quickly right. So no one has the time to or the 376 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,720 money to go hire an army of professional services people to 377 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,880 to do all this work over over three years or five years. 378 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,240 You know, people want QuickTime to value and they want something 379 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,040 simple that just gets them there. 380 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,000 I mean, can you? Ask for a better commercial than 381 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,120 having like one of your customers talk through like 382 00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:55,600 yeah, this is how easy it was to set up, right. 383 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,440 And and and they're talking to a seasoned identity expert. 384 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,760 You know, Jim, I know you're not saying you're not technical, but 385 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,400 20 years in identity is nothing to to sneeze at. 386 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,160 I mean that's that sounds to me like that's you know a CEOs like 387 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,760 dream, right, is to have advocates from the customer 388 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,480 standpoint telling others in the space about the product. 389 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,920 I mean it seems like I remember when I saw that I was like Oh 390 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,280 yeah, I've never seen anything like that before. 391 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,160 Like how does that work and does it work and what you know, what 392 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,040 happens when screens changes and and all things like that. 393 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,000 I guess I I'm not even sure what the question is here because I 394 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,720 remember being so fascinated by it. 395 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,760 And I remember thinking, OK, like a lot of this is based on 396 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,320 automation that I'm not even sure what the engineering effort 397 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,200 was to actually develop something like Zeus. 398 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,800 I mean, how do you, how do you even think about the different 399 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,360 permutations that might be out there from an automation 400 00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:49,560 standpoint is OK, we want to, yeah, highlight this area of 401 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,040 text and this area of entitlements and even navigate 402 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,160 pages and things like that. I mean, that must have been a 403 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,320 pretty significant undertaking. I'm thinking from an engineering 404 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,200 aspect. To pull that together, it was. 405 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,160 It was, it took us, it's taken us many man years of effort. 406 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,640 It's it's patent pending and we're still taking it forward. 407 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,960 So there's there's a lot more we can do with it. 408 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,880 So it's going to, it's going to continue to evolve but but it 409 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,680 is, it is a huge differentiator for us and it really makes our 410 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,880 customers lives easier. So I. 411 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,400 Don't ask you a a hard question because I think this is top of 412 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,720 mind for probably people is when they see and hear things like 413 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,040 this. And I would definitely encourage 414 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,400 people go to the Zilla website, zillasecurity.com, sign up for 415 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:32,920 the demo and watch how this works. 416 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,560 But what happens if the screen changes? 417 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,680 Is it easy enough for me to go back and sort of fix the the 418 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,280 automation or the script or whatever it's running that says 419 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,600 OK, it used to be called this or maybe the interface changed 420 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,520 because I'm a SAS provider and you know they like to mess 421 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,760 around with their interfaces. How do I get around that fact? 422 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,960 Because I feel like that's the first thing that comes to mind 423 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,760 and say, OK, well, you know, screen scraping, which is kind 424 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,560 of people have that nasty reaction to it. 425 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,360 But you've figured out a way, I think, to make that a little bit 426 00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:03,280 easier. And I want to give you an 427 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:04,680 opportunity to talk about how that might work. 428 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,480 Yeah. That's a great question. 429 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,120 So screens do change. Now it turns out that the 430 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:15,560 administrative side of of an application doesn't change as 431 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,200 often as you might think. So people, you know, developers 432 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,520 try not to muck around in that too too often, but they do 433 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,240 change occasionally. Now the nice the great thing 434 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,720 about having a / 100 customers now is when a when an 435 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,040 applications administrative screen changes it, you know, we 436 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,120 find out about it, you know immediately, right? 437 00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:41,600 Cause 'cause just think about that, it's the data collection 438 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,760 is going to fail and we're going to get pinged and we're, you 439 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,360 know, the Zilla support site is going to find out instantly that 440 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,240 something's gone wrong with this particular application and the 441 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,640 HTM LS changed, right? So, so our engineers would 442 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,160 overnight will overnight kind of jump on that issue and beef 443 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,840 typically before a customer even realizes that that a certain 444 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,600 integration has failed, a Zeus integration has failed, we've 445 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,960 got, we've got a solution for it, right. 446 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,840 And that that once, you know, once the solution is in place, 447 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,920 then it's really easy for the customer to go pull that, pull 448 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,520 that new recipe in and restart, restart the restart the Zeus, 449 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,320 the Zeus integration. So it it, you know, it sounds 450 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,440 like, Oh my God, these things are probably breaking all over 451 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,960 the place, but they're not. Do they break occasionally, yes. 452 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,800 But when they break, they can get, they get fixed almost 453 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,480 immediately as well. I love that. 454 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,240 Idea of sort of almost crowdsourcing some of the 455 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,560 information that's out there, but this idea of recipes, you 456 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,040 mentioned it earlier in our conversation and you just 457 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,280 brought it back again. So it leads me to believe that 458 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,600 there is some sort of, I don't know, Rolodex, I don't know what 459 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,480 the right thing a recipe card holder is. 460 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:53,520 If I is that how myself as a client, I would pick that up and 461 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,800 say, hey, I'm a customer of Zilla and I have this recipe 462 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,240 that I need to pull down for an application. 463 00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,880 Is that how it works or is there a different way? 464 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,600 Like, how do I how do I take advantage of that recipe well? 465 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,320 You actually don't see the recipe. 466 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,720 So when the integration is built and you might be the one 467 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,480 building it, you're really building it with the Zilla's 468 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:19,600 with Zeus. And so it's in some sense a a 469 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,800 zilla recipe, right? But it's a Zilla recipe for that 470 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,200 application. And that recipe gets saved, and 471 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:32,120 that recipe gets saved in a way that enables it to be used by 472 00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:35,800 you, but also potentially used by by other people. 473 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,200 Not with your data, of course, but but with with their own 474 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,720 data, their own applications. So I I you know the word recipe 475 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:50,560 is sort of the underlying technology tidbit, but it really 476 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,680 doesn't surface to to a typical customer Deepak I was. 477 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,040 Asking you questions earlier about how you to market, but I'm 478 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,360 also wondering like who's your buyer in most organizations 479 00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:06,640 because you did mention the compliance fees. 480 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,080 I know that the person that showed it off to me was doing 481 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,800 the access reviews kind of governance focus. 482 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,400 So I'm wondering about these different personas within an 483 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,920 organization that buy and use Zilla. 484 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:27,160 So is it like auditors, GRC leaders, identity practitioners, 485 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:32,160 or are you selling to Cisos? Like who contact Zilla or who do 486 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,600 you contact at those orgs? Yeah, so the. 487 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,680 Economic buyers are the chief security officers, the Csos or 488 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,320 the CIOs or the heads of IT. But invariably there's, there's 489 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:49,400 folks that report into those, those, you know, those leaders 490 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,560 who become champions of of our product, right. 491 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,840 So if you think about the compliance driver, it would 492 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,520 typically be someone on the identity team or someone on the 493 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,520 GRC side who's responsible for access reviews or responsible 494 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,680 for segregation of duties. If you think about the security 495 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,680 team or the security operations team, it'll be someone who's 496 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:16,520 who's involved in, you know in nailing down the, the security 497 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,920 posture for the organization or in in identity threat detection, 498 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,400 something like that. And then if it's if it's join a 499 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:30,840 mover lever management or access request for employees, that's 500 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,520 probably something that folks in IT will get involved in right. 501 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,680 So. So you know the thing about 502 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:41,160 identity is and the thing about our approach to locking down 503 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,280 access, locking down permissions is it becomes one holistic 504 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:50,000 identity solution that then gets leveraged by different teams in 505 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,880 the organization. So you know the Identity team 506 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,680 certainly gets involved, GRC team gets involved, auditors get 507 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:02,960 involved, security team gets involved, SEC OPS and of course 508 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:08,760 the the folks in IT, you know we we actually leverage popular 509 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,960 ITSM systems for a lot of our workflow. 510 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,120 So we've tried not to reinvent the workflow, reinvent workflow 511 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,400 for our own purposes. So we work very closely with 512 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,240 systems like ServiceNow and and fresh service and JIRA service 513 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,440 management and so those teams get involved as well, right. 514 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,200 So there's a lot of stakeholders which which kind of makes sense 515 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,280 because Identity is is unique in that it's one area of security 516 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,520 that touches every aspect of of a of a business, touches so many 517 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,640 business processes. So the stakeholders across the 518 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,840 board, right, But the people who actually, you know, become 519 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,800 champions of our solution are are typically on the identity 520 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,640 team, the security team or the OR the IT team. 521 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,320 You brought up an interesting thought for me, which was around 522 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,080 integrations. And so I know a lot of 523 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,080 organizations say all right, we're going to, you know here's 524 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,680 all the requirements or use cases that we have and when it 525 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,960 comes to integrations to 3rd party applications, those that 526 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,360 you can provision to or pull data from, you know what is your 527 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,960 approach to that? Is it that you have a lot of 528 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,960 name connectors like hey we have a sales force connector and a 529 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,680 work day connector and these fifty applications or is it more 530 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,480 of like a standards based or is it really come back to the Zeus 531 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,720 model or is it a a mix or hybrid of those? 532 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:38,760 Yeah. So there's a lot of different 533 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,760 ways and way in which to integrate with the systems, 534 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,200 right? So we talked about Zeus, we 535 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,440 talked about REST APIs, there's some applications, legacy 536 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,560 applications and so on that that simply have file imports. 537 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,040 There's no, there's really no other way to get at the data. 538 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:58,240 The only way to get at it is to export some sort of report or 539 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,960 export some sort of a CSVA comma separated file. 540 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:07,000 And then sometimes particularly with on Prem systems or on Prem 541 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,280 applications, you'll find databases that have that have 542 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,880 permissions in them and of course you use Sequel to get at 543 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:14,880 those at those permissions. So. 544 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,040 So we have a lot of different ways in which we could we could 545 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:22,080 bring data out. It really depends on, it depends 546 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,960 on the application and when you walk into a large organization 547 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,280 typically they've got so many applications that you use one of 548 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,480 you know you use 30 REST API integrations, 30 Zeus 549 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,560 integrations, you know twenty of those integrations you use all 550 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,920 the different types. And so our approach to that is 551 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,960 we've got you know over 900 at this point built in 552 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,720 integrations, they're just part of our platform. 553 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,920 You can just start to use them immediately, but then you can 554 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,720 build your own, right, because it's so easy to build your own 555 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,600 right. And and a lot of our customers 556 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,080 will just go off and and start, they'll use the built in 557 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,480 integrations. They'll have 10 apps that 20 558 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,280 apps that don't have built in integrations. 559 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,320 They'll go create no code REST API integrations or they'll 560 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,840 create you know the Zeus integrations we were talking 561 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,360 about earlier. So what we're trying to do is to 562 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,400 make that process really, really simple and and build a community 563 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,960 around it. So over time there's there's 564 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,040 always a Zilla integration for any application out there, 565 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,160 right? And if you've got some homegrown 566 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,920 applications or web portals that only you know about or digital 567 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,000 through digital transformation, you've built your own apps that 568 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,680 no one else has, well, you can build your own integrations for 569 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,280 those as well. I think I I. 570 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,800 Like that question a lot, Jim, because they think, you know, we 571 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,360 saw Zeus and they're like, OK, that's pretty cool, but it's not 572 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,200 the only way, right? I'm looking at the website now 573 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,840 and you've got API integrations and you can search, right? 574 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,040 You got file imports and as cool as Zeus is, it's not the only 575 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:54,960 way to integrate with an application. 576 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,240 I just think it seems to be like it's it's sort of that missing 577 00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:59,640 link, right? We see a lot of vendors in the 578 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,680 space who have API integrations. We have A and they also 579 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,080 typically have some sort of file import, but there's really not 580 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,000 anything in between that. And I think that's where the 581 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,040 differentiators that I've seen Deepak from you from Zilla, is 582 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,400 that Zeus offering right to be able to go in and sort of bridge 583 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,280 that gap in a low code, no code way to really kind of solve that 584 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,639 that in between issue, I'm probably not as articulate as 585 00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:25,040 saying it, but it does that resonate with kind of what 586 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,199 you've been seeing from, from your clients and out there in 587 00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:28,440 the field? Yeah, that's exactly. 588 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,440 Right, that's exactly right. They leveraged SU state, which 589 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,600 makes it easy for them to to bring in the data. 590 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:40,719 And as I said, it all kind of comes together in, in the 591 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,920 context of more and more automation to very quickly get 592 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,560 to value, you know, QuickTime to value, make it, make it simple, 593 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,120 make it easy, right. That's that's the idea here. 594 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,120 So let's talk about. That QuickTime to value because 595 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:56,719 I'm always interested in finding out. 596 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,560 OK, sounds cool. You know I'm a little bit jaded 597 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,680 when it comes to security tools. Yeah. 598 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,080 Sounds really neat. Deepak, you know how long does 599 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:05,200 this actually take to get set up? 600 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,640 What do I need to put in place? I guess. 601 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,640 Can you talk me through? Sort of what does it actually 602 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,480 take to get this up and running? Can you kind of walk me through 603 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:14,840 that? Maybe in a very high level, step 604 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,160 by step, we've got a. Process. 605 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,760 We realize that particularly in larger organizations there needs 606 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:27,120 to be a deployment methodology that that that's well understood 607 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,520 and guardrails for for for a deployment like this. 608 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,000 But you know, the basic steps are very simple. 609 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,320 You know, you first tell Zilla about your environment, right? 610 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,240 And that could be as simple as saying, well, we're using Okta 611 00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:45,080 for single sign on, or we're using Microsoft Azure AD for 612 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,120 single sign on. And you know, Zilla can pick up 613 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,880 the apps from from the single sign on solution, but that 614 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,360 that's perhaps only half the apps you have. 615 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,440 The others you, you, you tell us about individually or you tell 616 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,280 us, well we've got this information sitting in a 617 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,520 database somewhere. We can pull it in from there. 618 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,280 But the first step is essentially tell us about what's 619 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:09,840 out there, what is your environment like? 620 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,240 And then one by one you start integrating, integrating those 621 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:16,880 apps. Now I mentioned the directories 622 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,520 and single sign on solutions because that in you know that's 623 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,760 where you you get your your basic notion of identities in 624 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,400 the environment right. It doesn't tell you about about 625 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,680 the machines, all the machines you might have or all the APIs 626 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,480 you might have. But it certain certainly tells 627 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,680 you about all the users and the workforce and. 628 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,600 And so as you start to bring all of this together, the system 629 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,600 starts to now correlate the accounts and entitlements and 630 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,960 all that granular information it's getting from the various 631 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,920 applications or infrastructure elements or systems. 632 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,560 It starts to correlate that to the identities from the 633 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,040 directory, right? And it starts to create this 634 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,680 complete picture of of who or what has access to what, right. 635 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:09,920 It starts to identify you know what's what's what's third 636 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,640 party, what's privileged, you know, what's a service account, 637 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,200 what's an unused account, you know. 638 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:19,440 And now that correlated identity and access map of the enterprise 639 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,720 becomes a foundation for the compliance processes, the 640 00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:27,960 security processes, the join a mover lever processes, right. 641 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,080 So that's how the the identity, governance and security features 642 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,680 that we provide are essentially layered over that that access 643 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:36,680 map. So you start. 644 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,440 Talking about your direct resources and and I now I'm 645 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,400 going back to the recipe. It's like, OK, you're you're 646 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,520 collecting your ingredients you've got your process. 647 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,680 What is the. And here 2 questions. 648 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,040 What is the fastest time to value that you've seen to get 649 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,400 something out of Zilla that's usable and the and you know, the 650 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,960 client or the customer's happy with it? 651 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,440 And then what's the average time 'cause I know we we all times 652 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,360 hear stories of like, Oh yeah, I got this deployed in 36 hours, 653 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,200 like, OK that sounds really neat, but is that realistic? 654 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,840 Is it more like, you know, from an expectation settings 655 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,240 standpoint, is it generally around 2 weeks, 4 weeks, six 656 00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:11,880 weeks? Like what do you typically see 657 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,960 as like a normal sort of setup? Yeah. 658 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,080 Typically it's the order of, it's in the order of weeks, but 659 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,440 there's a lot of variability. And you know, the biggest issue 660 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:26,680 often is who really has the knowledge and the credentials to 661 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,280 set up those integrations right 'cause we don't need much. 662 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,960 But if you think about a REST API integration, for example, 663 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,000 we're going to need something to get that going. 664 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,760 And and often times the person we're working with on the other 665 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,120 side isn't the one who has access to that, to that data and 666 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,920 has to get an application, the technical owner of that 667 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,400 application involved, even if it's just for 30 seconds, right. 668 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:56,160 So that's that is often the biggest hurdle in in getting 669 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,880 going quickly but usually it's of the order of weeks. 670 00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:02,480 You know in a in a mid sized organization it might be just 671 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,040 two or three weeks. In a large organization with 672 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,760 30,000 employees, you know it might be 6 or 8 weeks. 673 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,640 If you've if there's a organization with 200 674 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,960 applications, it might take you know three months, but it's it's 675 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,880 typically in the weeks and or or or a couple of months before 676 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,200 organizations start to get get real time to value Do you find. 677 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,160 That there's a particular use case or something that people 678 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,520 tend to start with when they're implementing Zilla. 679 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,560 Do they focus on access reviews? Do they focus on kind of 680 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,080 plumbing, maybe onboarding, offboarding. 681 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,520 Like what's been the go to for for folks so far? 682 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,920 Yeah, the. In the early days for us, it was 683 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:48,560 access reviews, right, 'cause we, our initial product was had 684 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,080 a compliance module, was focused on visibility and compliance, 685 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,400 but all of that has started to change over the last year. 686 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,680 So now it kind of depends on the organization. 687 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,240 Some folks will start with just compliance with access reviews 688 00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:04,160 or segregation of duties. Others will start with 689 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:08,320 visibility and security posture. They want to nail down the, the 690 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,200 security exposures, the access exposures they have from a 691 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,880 security standpoint and and and we see some organizations that 692 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,040 are starting now with with you know life cycle management with 693 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,120 provisioning with access requests so. 694 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,240 It kind of depends on on the on the company depends on you know 695 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:30,240 what, what they're looking for. But I would say that visibility 696 00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:34,360 is almost always that's kind of a a common denominator across 697 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,560 the board because everyone's looking for, well, how do I, how 698 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,760 do I just get to see what I've wrought on my enterprise, right, 699 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,640 What, Because folks don't even know all of the applications 700 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,080 that they're using. And so bringing all of that 701 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,320 information into one place starts to give them that sense 702 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,960 of, yeah, I've got my arms around this and now I can do 703 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,600 compliance, I can do security, I can do, you know, life cycle 704 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,480 management. Deepak, I mean just thinking 705 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:08,760 back through your history again. Integrity, one of the original 706 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:13,480 web access management platforms, AVECSA, one of the original 707 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,240 identity, governance and administration platforms. 708 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,920 Now we're thinking about Zilla's security. 709 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,880 What's the, what's the next chapter look like within Zilla's 710 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,960 story? I mean you've got IGA, do you 711 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:34,320 continue to just make a more kick butt IGA platform or do you 712 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,680 go down this converged identity route that's so popular? 713 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,800 What? What's the next chapter? 714 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:46,200 Or a few chapters? Yeah, awesome question. 715 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:51,160 You know, I think that Identity security itself, the way we've 716 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:55,240 just been talking about it, has a long way to go. 717 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,320 I think organizations of all sizes are going to need a 718 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,920 solution like this that's automated, that's simple, that 719 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,080 just plugs into their environment and works, right. 720 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,720 And so when we think about the future you know we're we're 721 00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:13,880 always thinking about how do we make this simpler, how do we 722 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,520 make it more automated. I think AI is going to is going 723 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,320 to change is going to make this that you know so much better 724 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,280 than it is than it is even today. 725 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,600 I think the other, the other thing to consider, the other 726 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:32,120 thing we think about is you know identity has been, hasn't really 727 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:36,280 been a core security concern and we've been talking about 728 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,120 security posture management and identity threat detection and so 729 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,240 on. But if you go and talk, talk to 730 00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:46,360 most SEC OPS teams today, they really don't understand identity 731 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,200 that well. And I think that's going to 732 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:52,680 change over the next five years and it's going to change partly 733 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:58,040 because solutions like ours will will evolve so that they fit 734 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,680 right in to the to the whole SoC ecosystem, you know all of the 735 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,520 tools that that SoC teams are working with. 736 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,800 So. So I think I think it's all, 737 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:12,760 it's really all about more automation and and more 738 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:18,840 simplicity and more more sort of security more kind of fitting in 739 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,800 with the security ecosystem and providing A streamlined solution 740 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,320 for for identity security, right. 741 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,800 So the governance, again, I don't, I don't see the 742 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,160 governance requirements changing dramatically. 743 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:35,520 There's always more regulation, but the fundamental requirements 744 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,000 are probably going to stay the same. 745 00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:39,040 There's going to be more and more requirements on the 746 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:43,240 security side, right? And I think automation, there's 747 00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:45,120 going to be more and more automation needed. 748 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,120 And so that's that's what we think about when we think about 749 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:49,560 the future. I love the idea. 750 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,840 Of making things simpler because I think this is something that 751 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,200 the identity industry and maybe security in other industries as 752 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,840 well, but identity specifically struggles with very complex tool 753 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:04,160 sets and things that are being done to simplify everything from 754 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:08,200 the deployment to the usage to the, you know, the the consuming 755 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:09,520 of the information coming out of it. 756 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,080 I love the idea of that. So, you know, I'll definitely 757 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,320 be, you know, supporting you guys from as far as like, yeah, 758 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,240 make it easier for people to do this stuff because that's 759 00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:20,920 probably the biggest complaint that I see from a lot of a lot 760 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,280 of areas, not just, you know, from the the, the process, the 761 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,640 technology side of it. But it's great. 762 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,680 I have this tool. I'm not getting the maximum 763 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,520 value out of it. It's not easy to use. 764 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,200 I think it's a common thing that I hear quite a bit. 765 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,880 So I love the idea of, you know, making identity security 766 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,800 simpler. If it's simpler, people are 767 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,000 going to get more value out of it. 768 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:38,920 Is that fair? Absolutely. 769 00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:41,840 You know. It's interesting Gartner says 770 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,200 that the 50% of IGA deployments are in distress. 771 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,400 So the legacy solutions just haven't served the industry that 772 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,440 that well. I mean and you know they were 773 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:56,880 fine for an on Prem era. I think here we are in 2024 with 774 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,720 with you know rapid adoption of cloud systems all around us and 775 00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:03,840 those solutions just just aren't working. 776 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,080 You know you mentioned the word converged and I just want to 777 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,640 comment on that. I think this idea that you know, 778 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,840 organizations can, can, you know, go down this vendor 779 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,760 consolidation spree and simply use converge platforms for 780 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:23,720 everything is a myth, right? Yes, some things make sense to 781 00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:27,560 converge, some consolidation makes sense, but but you have to 782 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,440 think about which features hold together. 783 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:36,600 It goes back to you know, there's a natural, a natural way 784 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,000 about this. There's holistic solutions that 785 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,320 hang together very well together. 786 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,760 You know you you, you bring feature sets together when it 787 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,320 makes sense. Naturally you don't. 788 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,440 You don't just throw things into a platform and say I've got to 789 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,120 convert solution. So although there's, you know, 790 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,520 big vendors are always talking about how their platforms can do 791 00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:03,400 XYZ and ABCI think most Csos see through that and best of breed 792 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,840 is still very much alive and kicking. 793 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,120 It's interesting. I was going to say something 794 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,160 else, but then you brought up that piece and it made me think 795 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:18,640 back to the Integrity was acquired by CA and they also had 796 00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,520 Identity. So they had Site minder, 797 00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:25,360 identity minder and Governance Minder. 798 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,600 They're all products and just because you put them under one 799 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,680 brand name doesn't mean it's an appealing product. 800 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,440 I mean, it really has to all work together or we're not. 801 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,640 And I'm not going to ask you to comment on that, but feel free 802 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,840 to. But the other thing I was going 803 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,320 to bring up, Jeff was going to steal one line that used to say 804 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,920 all the time, I haven't heard you say it in a while, but 805 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:49,000 around this user experience, nobody teaches anybody how to 806 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,080 use Amazon. You go into Amazon and you 807 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,400 figure it out. And why can't identity systems 808 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,760 be that way? Because if you're going to have 809 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,440 self-service out there, and I think self-service and 810 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:06,280 automation kind of a theme for today, it just makes the whole 811 00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,440 thing work better. You can make your whole identity 812 00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:15,240 ecosystem work with fewer people and have it be more efficient. 813 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:19,160 Customer satisfaction goes up because people can do things 814 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:23,400 themselves, get quicker results. So I think this user experience 815 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,920 pieces not to be looked past you you. 816 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,200 Described our vision for identity security very well, 817 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,000 right. People should just be able to go 818 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,560 up and start using it just like they use Amazon, right. 819 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:41,320 That is what that is what folks in IT security and compliance 820 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,040 want today. Something that is easy to use, 821 00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:45,680 they can just start working with it. 822 00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,320 So it's a great, that's a great. That's a great point we're not 823 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,000 going to top. That so we'll start to wrap 824 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,640 things up. I I love the idea of 825 00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:59,720 self-service and my cheesy segue from that is tennis and service. 826 00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:01,720 Get it? Ha ha ha. 827 00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:04,880 Deepak, we were talking before the show started and you 828 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,040 mentioned that you're into tennis, you've been playing for 829 00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,160 a long time. One of the things I could do is 830 00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,840 end up kind of on a wider note and I I'd love to talk a little 831 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,800 bit more about tennis with you. I I'll be honest, I'm a newbie. 832 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,000 I have no idea what's going on in the world of tennis. 833 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,520 I don't even think I'm trying to think. 834 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,400 I don't think I've ever swung A racket. 835 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,800 I did play racquetball, which is about as close probably as I 836 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,760 I've gotten to tennis. But tell me about your tennis 837 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,680 career. Do you have a favorite tennis 838 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:31,520 player? Is it a rememberable match or 839 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,440 something that you've played? Take me into the world of Deepak 840 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,520 and tennis. Oh, I love tennis. 841 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,000 I've been playing for a long time. 842 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:40,760 I've been playing since I was a little kid. 843 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,960 It's a lot of fun. It's you know you forget about 844 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,520 it gets you gets me into the zone you're out there on a 845 00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:52,200 tennis court and you're hammering away on the on the at 846 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:57,320 the balls. So it's it's just it's a great 847 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:03,400 hobby memorable matches memorable players that I like. 848 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:07,680 You know there's a a kid he's a sensation right now. 849 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:13,160 Carlos Alvarez, he is awesome on the on the tennis circuit and I 850 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,440 remember a match that he played, I think it was last year at 851 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:20,280 Wimbledon. Carlos Alvarez beat Novak 852 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,680 Djokovic. It was a five set match and it's 853 00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,800 one of the best matches I've ever seen so and I've seen quite 854 00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,760 a few. But yeah, it's a great, it's a 855 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,280 great hobby. I'm not a pickleball fan. 856 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,080 I know we were chatting about pickleball earlier. 857 00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:40,120 I think pickleball's probably a fun game as well, Fun sport as 858 00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:45,800 well, but I think Dennis has has more finesse, so I was gonna. 859 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,440 I was gonna say, you know, the most challenging question I was 860 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:49,880 gonna ask you today was about pickleball. 861 00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:51,360 I'm gonna come back to that in a second. 862 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,760 But what is the strongest part of your tennis game? 863 00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:59,320 The strongest part of my game happens to be my backhand, which 864 00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,000 is unusual. Most most people have a have a 865 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,040 great forehand. I'm not a great player by the 866 00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:05,680 way. I'm I'm just a club level 867 00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,160 player. But my backhand is is something 868 00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,040 that I developed when I was a teenager. 869 00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:15,600 There was this, there was this concrete wall, it wasn't really 870 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,560 a tennis practice wall or anything. 871 00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,640 It was just a wall in the neighborhood and I'd go hammer 872 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:24,120 away on my backhand with a with a ball on that wall. 873 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,920 And so I I managed to develop a strong a strong backhand. 874 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,880 I wish I wish my forehand was as good as my backhand but it 875 00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:32,840 isn't. Can you play with? 876 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,280 Just backhands. I imagine that's a lot more 877 00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,760 running, no? That. 878 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,480 That. Yeah, that I I know people who 879 00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:40,960 do that with their forehand, right? 880 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:45,000 They run around their backhand. But somehow I haven't figured 881 00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,040 figured out how to do that with my backhand Jim. 882 00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,120 How are you with tennis? Not a very. 883 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,120 Good tennis player, but you know when you brought up tennis, I 884 00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:58,520 started to think about, you know, Serena Williams was the 885 00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:04,000 guest, one of the guest speakers at Octa Octane 2 years ago. 886 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,040 And man, what a fantastic person. 887 00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,240 It made me think of the time that, I don't know, she's like 888 00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:15,280 complained and got loud on the court a few times. 889 00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:19,720 And then it got me thinking about John McEnroe and how many 890 00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:21,880 times he's gotten loud on the court. 891 00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:26,000 And it what I really loved about John McEnroe is like, now he 892 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:27,880 totally makes fun of himself, right? 893 00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:31,080 He he totally uses that as like a comedy tool. 894 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,200 I think that's fantastic. The other thing that got me 895 00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:38,960 thinking of is like, I don't. So I don't play much tennis, but 896 00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:42,160 I've golfed a lot. And what I found was the more I 897 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:45,760 golf, the better I got. But the more angry I got. 898 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,800 If things didn't go the way I wanted to, wanted them to, or if 899 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:54,200 I missed a shot, it's just like I would get completely angry. 900 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,760 So I can totally see how you know a professional tennis 901 00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:02,160 player can totally lose, lose their cool when something 902 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:06,160 doesn't go right or you have. I mean everything is with these 903 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:10,000 like high tech cameras now, but before all that existed, if you 904 00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,960 felt the ref got the call wrong, blow a gasket. 905 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,320 I could see how that could. Happen, Deepak? 906 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,640 Any tips for For Jim on how to keep calm on the tennis court? 907 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,600 I don't know, but you're absolutely right about about 908 00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:27,520 McEnroe. He's perhaps the most I'll 909 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,520 tempered player ever, right. Who is a? 910 00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,840 Who is a bigger bad boy of tennis, John McEnroe or Andre 911 00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:39,720 Agassi? I think John McEnroe Agassi was 912 00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:43,800 was the was a rebel, right? He was. 913 00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:47,680 He wasn't. I mean, he could, he could lose 914 00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,920 his ghoul as well. But McEnroe was a repeat 915 00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,440 offender many, many, many, many times. 916 00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,040 All right. I wanted to ask you about 917 00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,160 pickleball, and I saved the most controversial question for the 918 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,760 very end here. Tell me about your thoughts on 919 00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:03,720 pickleball 'cause I think you kind of alluded to it before, 920 00:53:03,720 --> 00:53:06,880 but I feel like, you know, in the Asheville area of where I 921 00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:11,120 live, North Carolina, there is this very, very much a struggle 922 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,800 between the tennis players and the pickleball players. 923 00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,000 I'm not sure what the struggle is, but I'm hopeful that you can 924 00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:21,160 demystify it for me. I think pickleball is probably a 925 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:22,760 great sport. I've never played. 926 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,320 I just worry that all the tennis courts in my neighborhood will 927 00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:30,120 get taken over by pickleball folks so that I don't want. 928 00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,680 So I, you know, but it's a great sport. 929 00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,960 I know it's there's a lot of people who've started playing 930 00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:40,440 pickleball. There's a mall near not so far 931 00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:44,800 from my house where they now have an anchor store's been 932 00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:46,880 replaced by 16 pickleball courts. 933 00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:51,280 So you know, that sort of thing is probably going to happen in 934 00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:55,000 in lots of neighborhoods around the country, but where I will 935 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,880 get word is when when my Dennis cords start disappearing and 936 00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,080 getting replaced by by pickleball courts. 937 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,040 So that would not be good. So it's really more of a. 938 00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,760 Real estate question at this point, yes. 939 00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:08,080 OK, let's. I think that's a good spot. 940 00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,520 We can leave it. Deepak, thank you so much for 941 00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,680 taking the time with us. I would definitely encourage 942 00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,000 folks to reach out. We'll have a link in our show 943 00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:16,840 notes for people to reach out to you on. 944 00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:21,440 On LinkedIn, we'll have links to Zilla Security, ZILLA 945 00:54:21,720 --> 00:54:25,000 security.com where people can check out more that you guys are 946 00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,920 working on. There is a very shiny green 947 00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:30,920 button in the upper right hand of the website Zilla Security 948 00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:32,920 where you can book a demo. So we talked about kind of 949 00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,680 seeing as believing. I think that would be, you know, 950 00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,320 great for people to go check out and actually see how this works. 951 00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,480 And definitely I think people will be impressed by what they 952 00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,560 see. So I think we've had a great 953 00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:46,400 show. I always like to leave on a high 954 00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,600 note, so we'll go ahead and wrap it up for this week. 955 00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,400 Again, links in our show notes. Deepak, thank you so much for 956 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,320 being here. And thanks again for sponsoring 957 00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,560 this episode. You can find Gemini and LinkedIn 958 00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:58,120 as well. So if you've got feedback about 959 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,920 this or anything else, feel free to drop it on us and you can 960 00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,840 find us on the web, idacpodcast.com and on Twitter 961 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,760 or X or whatever it's called when people listen to this at 962 00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,680 IDAC podcast. So with that, thanks everyone 963 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:12,800 for listening and we'll talk with you all in the next one. 964 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,200 You've been listening to Identity at the Center. 965 00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:21,600 We hope you've enjoyed the show. Make sure to like, rate and 966 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:25,240 review and we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hit the 967 00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:29,360 website at identity@thecenter.com and find 968 00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:36,800 us on Twitter at IDAC Podcast. See you next time on Identity at 969 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:37,760 the Center.