1
00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,200
Welcome to the identity at the 
center podcast. 

2
00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,400
This is the first of what we 
hope will become a routine. 

3
00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,000
Look at the world of identity 
and access management. 

4
00:00:11,100 --> 00:00:13,900
My name is Jeff Stedman and I'm 
here with Jim McDonald. 

5
00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:16,400
We're both strategic identity 
and access management 

6
00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,700
Consultants with a denture peas,
advisory practice, Jim and I 

7
00:00:19,700 --> 00:00:23,400
have each been in the eye in 
space for over 15 years and have

8
00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,100
been in the trenches of 
real-world identity management, 

9
00:00:26,100 --> 00:00:29,800
programs appointments and 
operations as far as my back. 

10
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,200
Around you know I've worked for 
several large companies running 

11
00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,300
I am operations globally. 
Jim don't talk a bit about your 

12
00:00:36,300 --> 00:00:39,500
background. 
Sure hi everyone. 

13
00:00:39,500 --> 00:00:42,300
Jim McDonald year. 
I joined the dish would be seven

14
00:00:42,300 --> 00:00:45,700
years ago and I've been in the 
advisory Services Group, as well

15
00:00:45,700 --> 00:00:50,500
as I started and ran the 
forgerock practice for a while. 

16
00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:56,900
For drock is a I am vendor 
focused on external identity and

17
00:00:56,900 --> 00:00:59,900
access management. 
I really that's kind of my area.

18
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,500
Our Specialties. 
So, my first I Am project was 

19
00:01:04,500 --> 00:01:08,900
focused on as actually. 
One of the manufacturing company

20
00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:10,900
was responsible for the dealer 
portal. 

21
00:01:10,900 --> 00:01:15,200
So it's kind of a web server and
web application guy has more on 

22
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,000
the technical side of the house 
but I was transitioning in my 

23
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,700
career into getting into more 
project management program 

24
00:01:22,700 --> 00:01:25,100
management. 
The time I was just getting 

25
00:01:25,100 --> 00:01:29,500
started with getting my MBA at 
Rutgers University. 

26
00:01:29,900 --> 00:01:35,600
I shot out there and, you know, 
I got this opportunity to take 

27
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,200
our dealer portal and expanded 
across multiple brands are 

28
00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,200
taking a bunch of different web 
applications that were used for 

29
00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,700
doing business functionality, 
like ordering and ordering 

30
00:01:47,700 --> 00:01:51,400
complete machines and parts and 
submitting warranties and things

31
00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,800
like that and had to pull it all
together into one portal. 

32
00:01:56,100 --> 00:02:00,800
We had our dealerships across 
the United States and Someone 

33
00:02:00,900 --> 00:02:04,000
somewhere outside the United 
States and made a lot of these 

34
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,699
applications that some users 
would have accounts and all the 

35
00:02:08,699 --> 00:02:11,200
different applications with 
different usernames, some things

36
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:16,400
like that, our drive to start 
with was to get to one ID and 

37
00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:21,600
password per person and that's a
bigger challenge than you. 

38
00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,400
Then you realize when you start 
going down that road. 

39
00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,600
And so that's how I got into 
identity and access management 

40
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,900
because we came to find out this
is Is actual space. 

41
00:02:30,900 --> 00:02:33,500
You know, this is something that
people are creating solutions 

42
00:02:33,500 --> 00:02:35,900
for, and maybe that's Captain 
Obvious today. 

43
00:02:35,900 --> 00:02:39,300
But 15 years ago, it wasn't at 
least for me. 

44
00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:43,500
So, that's how I got into the 
space and I always say, you 

45
00:02:43,500 --> 00:02:46,300
know, everybody's got their own 
story, how they got into, I am, 

46
00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,000
you know, most of us stumbled 
into it. 

47
00:02:50,300 --> 00:02:54,700
I doing some other job and then 
found that hey, we're all of a 

48
00:02:54,700 --> 00:02:59,000
sudden, I Am project and got 
into it at the right time there 

49
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,700
or even today. 
I think you know this is some 

50
00:03:01,900 --> 00:03:05,100
depending on where you are in 
your career if this is like an 

51
00:03:05,100 --> 00:03:09,000
area that you're looking to get 
into, it's something I think 

52
00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,300
that pretty much anybody with a 
business background or technical

53
00:03:12,300 --> 00:03:18,700
background can get into I am and
just you know everybody has 

54
00:03:18,700 --> 00:03:22,600
their own career pathway. 
I think in this space You know, 

55
00:03:23,700 --> 00:03:26,100
it's interesting is that so I 
was at the end of verse 

56
00:03:26,100 --> 00:03:30,900
conference, this past week in 
Washington DC and whenever I'm 

57
00:03:31,100 --> 00:03:34,200
in the process of writing a Blog
article about this, but it's 

58
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,600
funny that you mentioned, how 
you got into I am because I 

59
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:41,000
don't know anybody who got into.
I am starting with I am, right? 

60
00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,400
I mean, they started maybe on 
the network side or help desk 

61
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,900
side like myself. 
I started helpdesk kind of move 

62
00:03:46,900 --> 00:03:50,700
over to and and ID administrator
and before moving in. 

63
00:03:50,700 --> 00:03:53,500
Yeah, man. 
At, but it's I don't know 

64
00:03:53,500 --> 00:03:57,000
anybody in the I am space that 
started and I am. 

65
00:03:57,900 --> 00:03:59,600
Do you know anybody that fits 
that bill? 

66
00:04:00,100 --> 00:04:05,000
I can think of one person which 
was Mario dousai who's now with 

67
00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,200
see we transmit security now. 
Yeah, I think so. 

68
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:15,200
And yeah, he was a developer, we
brought him in and for the bank 

69
00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,899
that I was working for, we 
brought him in as a developer 

70
00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:22,900
and that was like five years. 
To go and that's what I think 

71
00:04:22,900 --> 00:04:28,300
the you know the my answer your 
question was 10 years ago, the 

72
00:04:28,300 --> 00:04:30,700
answer would have been no. 
But I think more and more now 

73
00:04:30,700 --> 00:04:35,700
it's like I am spaces has gotten
so big and we one of the things 

74
00:04:35,700 --> 00:04:39,800
that we are always talking about
is, you know, the need for more 

75
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,700
talent to get into this, into 
this area. 

76
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,500
And I think I am is now in the 
place where it's like, you know,

77
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,700
what kind of a cottage industry 
where we have to go out and Take

78
00:04:51,700 --> 00:04:54,900
people who nests don't 
necessarily have the skillset 

79
00:04:54,900 --> 00:04:57,900
you know, people fresh out of 
college and get them into. 

80
00:04:57,900 --> 00:05:01,700
I am another example is 
Fletcher, Eddington from our 

81
00:05:01,700 --> 00:05:06,100
company, he was hired as an 
intern and use doing technology 

82
00:05:06,100 --> 00:05:12,600
deployments in the imc's and now
he's on the sale side but he's 

83
00:05:13,100 --> 00:05:15,400
built his entire career around I
am. 

84
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,400
So I think it's more of a kind 
of a recent phenomenon. 

85
00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,900
May be within the past five 
years, Maybe a little bit more 

86
00:05:22,900 --> 00:05:26,400
but if you know, people who've 
been in the space for a long 

87
00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,800
time, most of us kind of 
stumbled into it one way or 

88
00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,100
another. 
Right. 

89
00:05:30,700 --> 00:05:31,400
Yeah. 
It's interesting. 

90
00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,200
You mentioned the intern thing. 
It when I was at the conference 

91
00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,900
and we were having a an ID Pro 
organizational, meeting kind of 

92
00:05:38,900 --> 00:05:43,400
a get-together meeting, IE 
drinking at a bar, and we're 

93
00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:48,200
talking with a couple of folks 
from IBM and actually have a, an

94
00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,900
intern kind of process. 
Well, they'll bring people Lynn 

95
00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:57,000
and have them kind of work 
around the different engagement.

96
00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:58,600
Not engagements. 
I like different apartments in 

97
00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,100
the. 
I am kind of Consulting that 

98
00:06:01,100 --> 00:06:05,200
they do and they're trying to 
get more younger Talent, you 

99
00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,300
know, into those groups as well.
So they actually have a 

100
00:06:08,300 --> 00:06:13,700
dedicated program to find those 
people get them exposure and 

101
00:06:13,900 --> 00:06:15,900
kind of help them figure out 
where they are in space. 

102
00:06:15,900 --> 00:06:17,400
They might fit if they sit 
right? 

103
00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:21,200
They don't, you know, they kind 
of move on but they're a big. 

104
00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:25,800
Company and they're looking to 
get support and, you know, from 

105
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,700
a talent perspective and 
actually have a kind of Dicky 

106
00:06:28,700 --> 00:06:29,800
program, which I thought was 
pretty cool. 

107
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,600
And it's probably as something, 
I would imagine lends itself 

108
00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:35,600
more to the Consulting space, 
right? 

109
00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,300
Bringing in folks and trying to 
get people my email, I don't see

110
00:06:38,300 --> 00:06:39,800
you. 
I can Enterprise bringing people

111
00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,000
in and letting them kind of 
figure out where they want to 

112
00:06:42,008 --> 00:06:45,700
be. 
You have to that level but you 

113
00:06:45,700 --> 00:06:48,100
know those Folks at some point 
end up in the industry. 

114
00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,600
I'll be probably. 
Yeah, almost You know, one when 

115
00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,900
I first got into it about 20 
years ago, there were a lot of 

116
00:06:55,900 --> 00:07:00,600
different ways you could get 
into it and kind of build a 

117
00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,300
career. 
So there was, you know, you 

118
00:07:03,300 --> 00:07:06,700
could be a network engineer, you
could be a server engineer, 

119
00:07:06,700 --> 00:07:10,400
things like that, but a lot of 
those spaces have become 

120
00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:15,500
commoditized and they didn't, 
you know, smaller companies, 

121
00:07:15,500 --> 00:07:20,100
mid-sized companies just 
Outsource server hosting or Or 

122
00:07:20,100 --> 00:07:25,900
network network setup or voice 
over IP phones, you know, phone 

123
00:07:25,900 --> 00:07:28,100
systems. 
That was another entry point 

124
00:07:28,100 --> 00:07:34,500
into it back in my day. 
But, you know, today there's 

125
00:07:34,500 --> 00:07:37,700
fewer and fewer those, they're 
being commoditized and, you 

126
00:07:37,707 --> 00:07:41,600
know, not necessarily moved out 
of the United States, but in the

127
00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,400
bigger companies that I'm sure 
they have internship programs 

128
00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,300
and things like that to get into
as well. 

129
00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:51,700
But I am is been one of those 
spaces where It's evolving so 

130
00:07:51,700 --> 00:07:54,900
rapidly and a lot of small 
companies move into the space 

131
00:07:55,200 --> 00:08:00,700
and it gives opportunities for 
newbies or new people to move 

132
00:08:00,700 --> 00:08:03,000
into the space and really build 
a career. 

133
00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:07,200
And one of the things that I've 
always loved about I am, is that

134
00:08:07,500 --> 00:08:12,100
the people who I think are the 
most successful have, you know, 

135
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,900
really good business skills. 
But enough technology skills to 

136
00:08:15,900 --> 00:08:19,100
be dangerous or vice versa, 
they've got really good 

137
00:08:19,100 --> 00:08:21,300
technology. 
Skills and they understand 

138
00:08:21,300 --> 00:08:23,900
business. 
Just enough to be dangerous or 

139
00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:26,600
obviously, if you're, if you're 
really experience with. 

140
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,300
Oh, that's great. 
But you're solving business 

141
00:08:30,300 --> 00:08:33,299
problems with I am, you know, 
you're really having to look at.

142
00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,100
How do you do things today? 
How do you want to do them 

143
00:08:36,799 --> 00:08:40,400
compare that with how to 
software work out of the box and

144
00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,200
having the business sense to 
know that you don't want to take

145
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,300
something that you bought that 
works out of the box and 

146
00:08:46,300 --> 00:08:49,600
customize the, you know, 
customize it too much. 

147
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,200
And then Start with kind of a 
Frankenstein system. 

148
00:08:53,900 --> 00:08:57,300
Yeah I mean there's so much more
to I am than just technology 

149
00:08:57,300 --> 00:09:00,000
right? 
I mean it's there's there's 

150
00:09:00,100 --> 00:09:03,500
management, there's marketing, 
there's you know, communication,

151
00:09:03,500 --> 00:09:07,200
relationship building, there's 
all and I think maybe it's not 

152
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,100
clearly obvious, unless you've 
been in the space for a while, 

153
00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:11,800
it's not just knowledge 
musician. 

154
00:09:12,500 --> 00:09:14,600
You know, I don't consider 
myself overly technical. 

155
00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,600
I know enough probably the 
dangerous, but I'm not going to 

156
00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,000
go out and, you know, write your
code and, you know, install and 

157
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,700
configure your system. 
But I certainly understand, you 

158
00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:26,700
know, the macro Concepts, how 
things are gonna work together. 

159
00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,100
How does this work in the real 
world that, you know, large 

160
00:09:29,100 --> 00:09:33,800
companies and change boards, and
software review, boards and kind

161
00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,000
of all the company governance, 
the tends to go around, you 

162
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,200
know, big projects. 
You know, how to Market out 

163
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,700
there and you know why things I 
always say during our 

164
00:09:41,700 --> 00:09:43,800
engagement, Right. 
Is, you know, from a program 

165
00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,600
manager perspective, have your 
job is out there doing diplomacy

166
00:09:47,700 --> 00:09:49,400
kissing babies, right? 
Nicky relationships. 

167
00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,400
People making people aware of 
one of the services that you're 

168
00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,900
offering. 
So that's probably a topic that 

169
00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:56,400
will Maybe cover in a future. 
You know what? 

170
00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,800
Makes good. 
I am program manager. 

171
00:09:59,500 --> 00:10:01,200
I think that's an excellent 
topic. 

172
00:10:01,300 --> 00:10:03,700
May be good on the right Road at
some point. 

173
00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:07,900
So what are we want to talk 
about today? 

174
00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,800
I think what we should try to 
cover today is something that's 

175
00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:16,700
kind of near and dear to what we
do because we can discuss them 

176
00:10:16,700 --> 00:10:18,800
and based on a real world 
experience. 

177
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:24,100
But putting together an IM 
strategy and, you know, with the

178
00:10:24,100 --> 00:10:26,400
role that you and I are in it 
just to be clear to everybody 

179
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,300
what we do is were the advisory 
Services cement, I'd entropy. 

180
00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:36,100
So, we parachute in with our 
clients who are kind of come To 

181
00:10:36,100 --> 00:10:40,600
the realization that we need. 
And I am strategy and then they 

182
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,100
had some point. 
Discover we don't know how to 

183
00:10:44,100 --> 00:10:47,800
make an IM strategy. 
So I think we could talk about 

184
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,700
your the framework that we 
follow and kind of the process 

185
00:10:50,700 --> 00:10:52,700
that we go through. 
Because I know every 

186
00:10:52,900 --> 00:10:57,400
organization on a real, I am 
program manager can afford to go

187
00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,100
out and bring consultants in and
help with the process, but I 

188
00:11:01,100 --> 00:11:05,000
think the process is something 
that anybody could take on and 

189
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,700
there might be some folks. 
There who are interested in just

190
00:11:07,700 --> 00:11:11,600
kind of understanding what we do
and how we do it. 

191
00:11:11,700 --> 00:11:17,200
So what I was going to kind of 
talk about was our framework 

192
00:11:18,100 --> 00:11:23,600
and, you know, I really like to 
break down what we do into three

193
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:28,400
major parts, so it's assess 
recommend and roadmap. 

194
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,500
And so let me go through those 
three parts and and break them 

195
00:11:32,500 --> 00:11:35,100
down further. 
But the assessment phase is 

196
00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:40,100
really Understanding how things 
work today and I think this is 

197
00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:43,700
important to understand where 
your starting point is and 

198
00:11:43,700 --> 00:11:50,200
really it's it's going to help 
you develop kind of where we're 

199
00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,000
at today and what we want to 
accomplish which is going to be 

200
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,200
that recommend phase and then 
realizing the amount of work 

201
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,200
that needs to happen to go from 
point A to point B. 

202
00:12:00,700 --> 00:12:04,300
So normally with the assessment 
where we started, as we do a lot

203
00:12:04,300 --> 00:12:09,200
of we do, ask Finger exercise. 
So we call it as our put chart, 

204
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:14,700
the put chart is essentially 
processes user types and Target 

205
00:12:14,700 --> 00:12:20,000
systems, the whole idea and why 
we do that is to go through what

206
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,900
is the scope of the? 
I am program because I am can 

207
00:12:22,900 --> 00:12:25,900
mean many different things to 
many different people. 

208
00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,900
But if you get an exhaustive 
list of like, here are the 

209
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,000
processes that we want to go 
after whether it's things 

210
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,800
related to managing privileged 
identities. 

211
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:40,300
User onboarding user 
off-boarding authentication into

212
00:12:40,300 --> 00:12:44,000
applications, whatever it maybe 
it's not all those things. 

213
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,800
Maybe it's you know just 
password management and it's a 

214
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,900
more finite scope but realizing 
what your scope is, kind of the 

215
00:12:51,900 --> 00:12:54,600
starting point and one of the 
great things that comes out of 

216
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:59,200
that exercise is that as you go 
through something like who are 

217
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,000
the user type. 
So in other words we're the who 

218
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,600
are we doing these? 
I am processes for, you're going

219
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,900
to So here are the stakeholders 
that we need to get involved. 

220
00:13:08,900 --> 00:13:11,000
We're talking about external 
customers. 

221
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,100
For example, we need to get 
people who within our within our

222
00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:20,800
organization is respond, are the
person who's responsible for, 

223
00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:24,000
you know, communication to those
users, things like that, who 

224
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,600
provides them support. 
And other words, when a user 

225
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,900
runs into an issue where they 
turn only, that's the service 

226
00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:34,000
desk, talking about employees 
for probably giving HR and 

227
00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:39,600
involved, if them As we go into 
Target system, this ASAP or 

228
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,800
Salesforce is on the list. 
Well, we need to get people 

229
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,000
involved from from those 
stakeholder groups. 

230
00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:51,900
Now, all those people that we 
identified, we then want to get 

231
00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:55,300
them involved in a workshop and 
a workshop would be, you know, a

232
00:13:55,300 --> 00:13:57,900
series of meetings, where we 
understand from, folks. 

233
00:13:58,500 --> 00:13:59,900
What? 
You know, how do things work 

234
00:13:59,900 --> 00:14:01,400
today? 
What's working? 

235
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,400
Well, what's not working? 
Well, what ideas do you have for

236
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:06,900
how to make? 
Things work better. 

237
00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:11,900
And so that's kind of the 
starting point is, I guess to 

238
00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:15,300
break down the assess phase. 
Its, you know, identifying 

239
00:14:15,300 --> 00:14:19,100
scope, identifying stakeholders 
and then meeting with the 

240
00:14:19,100 --> 00:14:22,400
stakeholders going through the 
workshop activities and that 

241
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,300
might be a future podcast, as 
well as like what are these 

242
00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:28,300
workshops look like? 
How do we structure the workshop

243
00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:31,800
sort of the questions but what I
like to do in the workshop. 

244
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,400
So way I like to see workshops 
during this for them to be very 

245
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,300
interactive. 
It's not for us to kind of be 

246
00:14:37,300 --> 00:14:42,100
interrogating or just asking one
way questions and just taking 

247
00:14:42,100 --> 00:14:43,900
notes. 
So the more that we're 

248
00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:47,200
interacting and white boarding 
or going through diagrams and 

249
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,800
process flow charts the better 
and then coming out of that and 

250
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,100
kind of the reason we use the 
term assess is that some things 

251
00:14:55,100 --> 00:14:57,100
are going to jump out at you 
right away. 

252
00:14:57,100 --> 00:15:01,000
Like you know this process is 
broken or this process works 

253
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,900
really well is the strength 
within the organization is a 

254
00:15:03,908 --> 00:15:05,800
weakness, want to make sure we 
die. 

255
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,200
Come in all those and then kind 
of be able to tell the story. 

256
00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:13,000
You know what is it that needs 
to improve? 

257
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,000
What are the drivers for this 
program? 

258
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,500
Why is it important to do 
something? 

259
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:20,700
So I don't know. 
What are your thoughts on that, 

260
00:15:20,700 --> 00:15:23,600
Jeff? 
Yeah, yeah, that's right on. 

261
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,400
I think one of the things that 
typically ends up being with the

262
00:15:26,408 --> 00:15:28,900
hardest parts of the engagements
that we work through, with our 

263
00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:32,100
customers is trying to get that 
attendance. 

264
00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:33,700
Right? 
For those workshops and having 

265
00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:37,700
people be available, It is an 
investment of time, right to get

266
00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:42,400
those folks in there, but it's 
certainly beneficial, you know, 

267
00:15:42,408 --> 00:15:44,700
definitely for the customer and 
definitely for us, they will 

268
00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:46,100
understand. 
Well, how does it really work 

269
00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:47,700
today, right? 
Because you can have things that

270
00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:50,100
are written down on paper and 
processes Etc. 

271
00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:54,400
And that's great, but that may 
not actually capture what's 

272
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,400
really happening, right? 
So if we can get folks in the 

273
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,800
room you know set up a safe 
space, right to have those 

274
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,400
conversations and and figure 
out, you know, how do we solve 

275
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,500
some of the issues that we hear 
at? 

276
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,900
UPS out quite a bit. 
You know, when you talk about 

277
00:16:08,900 --> 00:16:11,800
the assessment, I always find 
interesting and I know we both 

278
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,100
asked this question a lot, you 
know, from an assessment 

279
00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:18,300
perspective, you know, are we 
right on, you know, do they 

280
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,500
does, the does, the customer 
agree with us or do they have a 

281
00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:23,300
different perception? 
So it's always interesting to 

282
00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:26,300
kind of have that conversation. 
So, yeah, we knew that we 

283
00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:29,700
weren't doing so great here. 
And, you know, that's, that's 

284
00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:32,100
kind of what we're expecting. 
I don't think I've ever come 

285
00:16:32,100 --> 00:16:35,200
across one. 
Where, you know, we've done an 

286
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,900
assessment. 
Aunt and provided, you know, 

287
00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:41,300
here's why we think your ex and 
the customer saying, well, 

288
00:16:41,308 --> 00:16:42,700
you're totally wrong. 
This is why. 

289
00:16:42,700 --> 00:16:45,600
We're we're so much better than 
what you think, right? 

290
00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:48,700
It's we're usually pretty right 
on with that. 

291
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,500
I don't know if you've ever 
encountered that from an 

292
00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:53,600
assessment perspective, but I 
think companies kind of break 

293
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,100
you to brace themselves for the 
worst and maybe some tens or 

294
00:16:56,100 --> 00:16:59,000
pleasantly surprised or, you 
know, they agree with the 

295
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,300
assessment. 
But I've never seen the opposite

296
00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:05,800
where they thought they were 
doing a lot better than you. 

297
00:17:05,900 --> 00:17:09,200
Maybe what they really were. 
I've done, I think you're right 

298
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,000
on with that point. 
I think you're right on with 

299
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,700
that point. 
One thing that I are two points 

300
00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:16,000
that I wanted to throw out 
there. 

301
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:21,599
One is this my perspective is 
like this is your strategy 

302
00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:24,800
because a lot of times will and 
so that drives a certain 

303
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:30,100
perspective well you don't need 
to know every iota of detail or 

304
00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:32,400
make a strategy. 
You need to know we're going to 

305
00:17:32,408 --> 00:17:34,400
give areas of improvement, you 
know? 

306
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,300
If the the way Passwords are 
managed is a problem. 

307
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:42,600
You don't need to know every 
different aspect of the password

308
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:47,600
management policy or, you know, 
from a strategic perspective. 

309
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,000
If you know that the tool is the
problem, the tool needs to be 

310
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,700
replaced, then that really ought
to drive the strategy. 

311
00:17:54,700 --> 00:17:57,700
So you don't want to get 
burdened with too much detail. 

312
00:17:57,700 --> 00:18:00,700
And I think a lot of times in 
the projects that we've worked 

313
00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:03,100
on some of our clients. 
Thank you guys are here. 

314
00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:06,900
You need to know every detail we
need to meet Every stakeholder, 

315
00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:10,100
anybody who has anything to do 
with passwords, and it's just 

316
00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:13,300
not the case. 
The other point I wanted to 

317
00:18:13,300 --> 00:18:16,300
bring out is that, you know, we 
talked about it as a workshop 

318
00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:20,100
and, you know, at least from a 
denture, we perspective, these 

319
00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:23,300
are engagements. 
So we're going in and, and we 

320
00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:27,100
want to try and get all of this 
information in a week. 

321
00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:29,800
So we try to schedule all the 
meetings in a week. 

322
00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:35,300
I feel like if our listeners are
going out and trying to do this 

323
00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:37,200
on their own, Own. 
They should take that same 

324
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,400
perspective. 
If you spread these meetings out

325
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:44,300
over several weeks or much worse
of several months, you're going 

326
00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:46,600
to lose momentum, I'll get it 
done. 

327
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,400
You'll never get it done. 
You'll forget things. 

328
00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:52,900
So it's going to be one more 
person to talk to, and it 

329
00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:56,500
doesn't create an event. 
It doesn't create, like, one of 

330
00:18:56,500 --> 00:19:01,000
the things I think about when 
folks hire us is that the 

331
00:19:01,008 --> 00:19:03,400
Consultants are coming in? 
They're going to be here this 

332
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,700
week. 
You need to be ready, right? 

333
00:19:05,900 --> 00:19:08,600
Yourself available, right? 
Yeah, make yourself available 

334
00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:11,500
going to do one off exceptions. 
You can do a phone call next 

335
00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:13,600
week. 
If you can't be there, you're on

336
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,100
vacation or whatever. 
The reason is, we don't let it 

337
00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:20,100
drag out three weeks. 
It's kind of like if you can't 

338
00:19:20,100 --> 00:19:23,100
talk for three weeks, your 
perspectives not going to be 

339
00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:24,700
included. 
And you know, I don't mean to be

340
00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:27,500
so harsh and you know, you don't
really need to be that harsh, 

341
00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:31,200
but if you have several groups 
or saying like yeah, you know, 

342
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,000
if it's just not important 
enough for them, that's a bigger

343
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,200
problem. 
And so that that is it to me as 

344
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,800
like you've got to kind of 
create an event, you've got to 

345
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,900
have these be a sense of urgency
around it, right? 

346
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,000
I mean, what's perfect. 
Let's get people in the room. 

347
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,200
Let's get this conversation. 
We know it's an issue. 

348
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,200
We've got these, you know, 
high-powered Consultants coming 

349
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:55,900
in. 
You know, what's take advantage 

350
00:19:55,900 --> 00:20:00,600
of their time set aside the time
to so we can get this done. 

351
00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:03,000
That's typically why I think 
it's why the hardest parts right

352
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,700
trying to get those folks to buy
into that? 

353
00:20:05,900 --> 00:20:09,200
Says get availability, you know,
the bigger the team, the bigger 

354
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,900
the number, or larger number of 
stakeholders, just becomes that 

355
00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:14,200
much more difficult. 
So, the other thing to think 

356
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,400
it's, we try to keep it more 
core and bring in other folks as

357
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,300
needed that sometimes can help 
with that as well. 

358
00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:22,300
Because most companies they 
typically have like a core kind 

359
00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:26,000
of I am T whether or not, 
they're truly a team or not, you

360
00:20:26,008 --> 00:20:27,400
know. 
There's, there's typically a 

361
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,100
handful of people really know 
how it works. 

362
00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:32,000
And then you've got supporting 
characters around that might be 

363
00:20:32,300 --> 00:20:35,700
subject matter expert experts in
a given area that don't 

364
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,000
necessarily need to be there 
full time, but we certainly 

365
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,600
would like to have an hour, two 
hours, three hours of their 

366
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,500
time. 
So that we can, you know, 

367
00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:44,900
understand their side of it. 
But that definitely comes into 

368
00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:47,400
place, right? 
Right. 

369
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,900
And so, you know, moving on from
the assessment, I think you made

370
00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:53,800
a good point. 
We like, to, with our 

371
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,400
assessment, bring it back to the
client, have them review. 

372
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,900
It verified that it's 
comprehensive and complete. 

373
00:20:59,900 --> 00:21:03,400
We didn't forget something. 
We didn't state facts 

374
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,700
incorrectly. 
Usually that's not the case. 

375
00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:11,800
It's good to do a quality check 
and then we move on to making 

376
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,900
recommendations and our 
recommendations are typically 

377
00:21:14,900 --> 00:21:18,600
based on best practices. 
So we know what the problems are

378
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,400
in the environment and we know 
what are the common industry 

379
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:27,100
Solutions, but more so than just
Technology Solutions, it's 

380
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,100
there's some major themes that 
we generally look toward like 

381
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:38,400
centralization automation. 
You know, consistent processes. 

382
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,700
So that you know say you're 
working with a large 

383
00:21:40,700 --> 00:21:43,400
organization, they do things, 
different ways in different 

384
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,900
departments, trying to drive 
toward once. 

385
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,300
One common way of doing things 
is those are the typical 

386
00:21:50,300 --> 00:21:52,100
drivers. 
I'm not going to say that. 

387
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:56,100
You know there's work for a 
hundred percent of organizations

388
00:21:56,100 --> 00:22:00,300
but probably high 90s, you know,
doing things from a central 

389
00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:03,600
perspective or at least having 
certain things done from a 

390
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,400
central perspective. 
You know, it's not always the 

391
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,200
case that you want to automate 
something, but you don't have a 

392
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,000
framework for automating where 
it makes sense. 

393
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:18,300
So that's really what we do from
a recommendation standpoint. 

394
00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:21,600
And of course, you know, Jeff 
and I have a lot of experience 

395
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,500
in the space. 
So we kind of a lot of these 

396
00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:30,000
things are second nature to us, 
but a lot of the, the benefits 

397
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,400
that you get and kind of some of
these best practices. 

398
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,800
Like I talked about are also if 
Think about any kind of 

399
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,100
Enterprise projects you're 
looking at and active directory 

400
00:22:40,100 --> 00:22:43,000
project or something like that, 
it would be the same kind of 

401
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:49,500
theme centralization automation.
So so those are our, the drivers

402
00:22:49,500 --> 00:22:52,300
one of the ways you can, you 
know, if you're not working with

403
00:22:52,300 --> 00:22:55,900
a consultant that you can start 
to get some ideas on how the 

404
00:22:55,900 --> 00:22:58,900
industry solves these problems 
would be to start to bring 

405
00:22:58,900 --> 00:23:02,100
vendors in, you to, you know, 
present them. 

406
00:23:02,100 --> 00:23:05,100
Here are the problems. 
What are your, you know, how 

407
00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:07,800
would you go? 
Solving these problems that's 

408
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,900
going to give you some 
information now from the 

409
00:23:10,900 --> 00:23:13,400
adventure of your perspective. 
That's not how we operate 

410
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,700
because we do it from a vendor 
agnostic, premium cream of mind.

411
00:23:17,700 --> 00:23:21,100
We you know we want to say you 
know if we were in your shoes is

412
00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:24,000
how we would do it. 
We based it on our experience. 

413
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,200
So I think anybody could 
implement the framework but 

414
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,200
nobody can Implement Jim 
McDonald's experience except for

415
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,200
Jim McConnell because I'm the 
only one who has my set of 

416
00:23:34,208 --> 00:23:37,600
experience in Jeff is the only 
one who has his and everybody 

417
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,700
who's listening is the only 
person who has there's Rob but 

418
00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:42,500
you know. 
So that's kind of how we go 

419
00:23:42,500 --> 00:23:46,200
about the recommendations, kind 
of some of the major elements of

420
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,800
recommendations are going to be 
you know, people process and 

421
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,000
Technology. 
What are the things that would 

422
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,500
go about solving kind of the 
assessment doing kind of a gap 

423
00:23:56,500 --> 00:23:59,600
down analysis. 
You know, here are the gaps and 

424
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:04,000
here the recommended Solutions. 
Another thing I would say is a 

425
00:24:04,008 --> 00:24:05,700
lot of things that are going to 
come out of. 

426
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,400
Assessment have nothing to do 
with technology. 

427
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,200
They just have to do with how 
you're running your IM program. 

428
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,700
One of our recommendations is 
always gotta run. 

429
00:24:15,700 --> 00:24:17,100
I am as a program. 
I'm sorry. 

430
00:24:17,100 --> 00:24:20,000
Jeff, go ahead, no, no, I mean, 
you're right Honest, this is an 

431
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,200
area. 
I think that it's, it's easy to 

432
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,500
become overwhelmed, right? 
It's there's so many things that

433
00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:29,100
might come out of just 
recommendations, but a lot of it

434
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,600
typically doesn't tend to be 
technology-based, right? 

435
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:36,200
It's more on the process side. 
You know, one of the Questions 

436
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,600
that we like to ask. 
You know, why do you do, what do

437
00:24:38,608 --> 00:24:41,100
you do with that way? 
And sometimes no one really has 

438
00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:44,500
a good reason, why rights? 
No one, no one figured out or 

439
00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:48,200
wanted to kind of rock the boat.
And, you know, maybe we play bad

440
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:49,900
cop. 
He was part of the part of the 

441
00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:51,100
part of the process, the same 
people. 

442
00:24:51,100 --> 00:24:52,900
Why you do it that way, what 
about this? 

443
00:24:52,900 --> 00:24:56,100
And kind of ask those questions.
You know, you don't ask those, 

444
00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:59,400
you'll never get either a path 
for sometimes, but it's easy to 

445
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,100
get overwhelmed, especially, you
know, with some of our larger 

446
00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:05,200
engagements, where, you know, 
you may end up with like over 

447
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,900
100 What'd you know, individual 
recommendations? 

448
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,600
You can't solve everything all 
at once and you know, that 

449
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:12,900
probably leads us into the next 
part. 

450
00:25:12,900 --> 00:25:15,400
Here, we talked about roadmap 
of, how do you prioritize? 

451
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,600
You know what goes first? 
You know, is self-service 

452
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,900
password, reset more important 
because your help desk is, you 

453
00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:26,000
know, drowning in those calls or
is privileged access management,

454
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,200
you know, more important because
you're not doing anything there,

455
00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:30,800
right? 
How do you figure out you know 

456
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,600
which which area comes first? 
Yeah, well there's there's 

457
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,200
really no Silver Bullet for 
that. 

458
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,200
I mean then you've got to look 
at what are the drivers in the 

459
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,500
organization. 
Let's just say, you know, you 

460
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:45,800
think the drivers automation we 
go into certain clients and we 

461
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,200
just say my God you guys are 
drowning in Risk, right? 

462
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:54,000
So another organizations are 
driven by risk and you know it 

463
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,000
say Wow you guys could be doing 
the doing everything so much 

464
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,800
better if you just had some 
automation, but usually it's a 

465
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,800
balance of all those. 
That's risk. 

466
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,000
It's automation, it's 
opportunity for, you know, 

467
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,400
enabling new technologies and 
and certain things are going to 

468
00:26:12,408 --> 00:26:15,500
Bubble to the top. 
One thing that I think almost 

469
00:26:15,500 --> 00:26:20,400
never wants to be heard but is 
the cases that you're going to 

470
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,700
introduce a lot of new 
technology footprint. 

471
00:26:23,700 --> 00:26:26,500
So say you're going to put an 
access management single sign-on

472
00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:30,300
system in place. 
You're going to have some one 

473
00:26:30,300 --> 00:26:33,700
call it heavy lifting but 
there's some That needs to be 

474
00:26:33,700 --> 00:26:36,000
laid down. 
There's going to need to be some

475
00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:40,500
basic work put into play to 
configure the system, you're 

476
00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:44,100
going to have to do, you know, 
Implement maybe one system as 

477
00:26:44,100 --> 00:26:49,200
kind of a proof of concept. 
Just to make sure that, you 

478
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,700
know, nobody wants to do a big 
bang approach, even the smallest

479
00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:54,900
Enterprises, don't want to do 
big bang. 

480
00:26:55,100 --> 00:26:59,300
So you've got to think about 
things in phases, but I'd say, 

481
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,200
you know, more and more is 
moving to the cloud. 

482
00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:05,600
You can. 
The structure of a is is either 

483
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,000
eliminated or shrunk down 
considerably but not everything 

484
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,100
is moving to the cloud and this 
is a good blog topic for our 

485
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,400
podcast, topic. 
For the future is to talk about,

486
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,700
you know, access management. 
Single sign-on is something that

487
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:24,200
is moving out to the cloud 
dramatically quicker than the 

488
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,500
identity governance and 
administration space. 

489
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:32,100
That's because companies the way
they do identity Administration 

490
00:27:32,100 --> 00:27:34,400
and governance. 
Varies much more from 

491
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,900
organization organization, the 
fields. 

492
00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:43,600
They have to manage and govern 
and provision it just it there's

493
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,600
so much more variance or a 
single. 

494
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,800
Sign-on has really driven 
towards some of these Federation

495
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:55,300
protocol standards like saml 2.0
and open ID, open ID connect and

496
00:27:57,100 --> 00:27:59,000
there's things have been able to
move out to the cloud. 

497
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,200
And there's now integration 
patterns that will be able to 

498
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:07,000
take Cloud-based single sign-on 
and connected to applications, 

499
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:14,200
that are even on-premise hosted.
So, You know, I guess what the 

500
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,400
point that I was making was, you
know, don't forget kind of 

501
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,100
infrastructure phases. 
Don't think that you can just 

502
00:28:21,100 --> 00:28:25,500
say our Phase 1 is going to be 
it just integrating applications

503
00:28:25,500 --> 00:28:28,600
because you're going to have to 
get those confused early 

504
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,900
configurations and maybe see a 
structure sign up as well. 

505
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,400
That's kind of the traditional 
element, but they'll change to 

506
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,800
write a mean. 
What if you're working on a road

507
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,700
map and especially if it's like 
any roadmap Beyond a year, 

508
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:42,700
Right. 
There's gonna be changes that 

509
00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:44,500
come along the way. 
So you need to be able to be 

510
00:28:44,500 --> 00:28:49,200
flexible and adapt as things 
comes down down the penguin. 

511
00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:53,600
I think if somebody's out there 
listening and say, well, how do 

512
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,900
I apply this to me because they 
can afford to go out and get 

513
00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:57,700
Consultants? 
How am I going to build my? 

514
00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:02,500
I am strategy and I think the 
hardest part is less coming up 

515
00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:08,300
with what the, you know, I think
anybody may not anybody but most

516
00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:10,700
of us can look at these 
problems. 

517
00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:13,600
Look at the vendor solutions 
that are out there. 

518
00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:16,700
Read what they say on their 
website, a watch their YouTube 

519
00:29:16,700 --> 00:29:19,800
videos. 
And say, I think this will solve

520
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,500
the problem. 
The hard part is being confident

521
00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:26,500
that, yeah, it'll solve the 
problem is. 

522
00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:29,900
So that's why I think that, you 
know, why, or one of the reasons

523
00:29:29,900 --> 00:29:33,400
why organizations want Jim and 
Geoff to come in to help is 

524
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,700
that, you know what we've seen, 
and we can base it on our 

525
00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:40,500
experience to say, yeah, yes, we
have to be very confident, you 

526
00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:41,700
don't. 
To come up with the strategy 

527
00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:46,500
that you're not 100% confident. 
If you don't have that 

528
00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:49,200
experience, if you don't have 
that experience, I think it 

529
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,200
really you're going to have to 
go the extra mile and tap into 

530
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:58,200
whatever, whatever resources you
have available to you. 

531
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,500
And one of the best ways. 
One of the ways, I learned a lot

532
00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:06,500
about identity access management
was tapping into my colleagues 

533
00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:10,300
at other companies, and my 
friends who were in the space 

534
00:30:10,300 --> 00:30:13,700
and message boards and things 
like that because, you know, 

535
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:16,300
there are people out there who 
Ooh, love sharing information, 

536
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,200
Jeff you and I are doing this 
podcast today because we love 

537
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,900
sharing information, there's 
ways to get the information on 

538
00:30:22,900 --> 00:30:26,400
ways to get people's opinions. 
I'd say also within your 

539
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,100
organization I am is you know, I
am as a technical Beast unto 

540
00:30:31,100 --> 00:30:35,900
itself but a lot of the 
architecture design are going to

541
00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:40,500
do you know pulling some of the 
Enterprise architecture team or 

542
00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:44,500
if you have other resources like
that you can tap into to help 

543
00:30:44,500 --> 00:30:45,900
you. 
Sure that you're following good.

544
00:30:45,900 --> 00:30:48,500
Architecture design principles, 
right? 

545
00:30:48,500 --> 00:30:49,900
What's that experience? 
I think that's, that's the 

546
00:30:49,908 --> 00:30:52,300
important thing. 
But, you know, this is one of 

547
00:30:52,300 --> 00:30:55,500
the reasons why I moved into 
Consulting was when you work for

548
00:30:55,500 --> 00:31:00,000
a single company, you know, how 
they do it and, you know, the 

549
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,500
tools that they used and when 
you're in Consulting you're 

550
00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:05,800
saying how way more companies do
it? 

551
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,200
You're getting a you know, much 
broader exposure to a larger 

552
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,700
number of tools and you get to 
see much quicker what works what

553
00:31:13,700 --> 00:31:17,000
doesn't work How particular 
issue might have been solved in 

554
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,700
one organization and, you know, 
that's where that experience 

555
00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:22,100
Factor comes in. 
And you pull that, you know, 

556
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,900
situation over and say, okay, 
this is very similar to what we 

557
00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:27,100
saw at company X. 
Now that we're company. 

558
00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:28,600
Why? 
Yeah, you know what we've seen 

559
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,800
something similar to that? 
Let's talk about how this might 

560
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:36,700
work, that certainly helps. 
And that goes back to reaching 

561
00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:40,000
out to your network, right? 
Trying to figure out everyone 

562
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,300
struggles, with very similar 
problems, you know, for the most

563
00:31:42,300 --> 00:31:48,300
part, it's Very rare that not 
very rare, but a lot of 

564
00:31:48,300 --> 00:31:50,200
companies struggle with very 
similar problems, which is see 

565
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,500
that, that right? 
If you can talk with more folks,

566
00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:55,400
in your networks etcetera and 
see how they solved it, there 

567
00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:00,100
may be components of their 
solution that might be able to 

568
00:32:00,100 --> 00:32:03,200
apply to fix your own. 
And, you know, once you talk to 

569
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,000
enough folks and try to get 
enough data points, you start to

570
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:07,500
build that that confidence level
that. 

571
00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:09,400
Yeah, okay. 
Here's the right way to approach

572
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,600
it. 
So, having that broad Network 

573
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,200
and being able to talk with, 
Folks, you know, go to 

574
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,400
conferences, you know, 
commiserate with the folks 

575
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,700
there. 
Yeah, I think I'm going to just,

576
00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:23,000
you know, be straight up and up 
front with some of the vendors, 

577
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,900
right? 
So if you bring in a bender and 

578
00:32:24,900 --> 00:32:28,400
you guys specific problem, tell 
them what it is and see how they

579
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,500
would solve it right. 
That might help you understand 

580
00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:33,800
it sure they're gonna try and 
sell you their product but take 

581
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,800
the information and as you're 
comparing different vendors see 

582
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,500
how each one handles it. 
You may find that a you know the

583
00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:42,600
vendor a is better at what 
you're looking for. 

584
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,800
Specifically specifically the 
vendor be Even though vendor me 

585
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,900
might be the big dog right in 
the industry. 

586
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,300
So there's no, there's no Silver
Bullet like you put it before. 

587
00:32:52,300 --> 00:32:55,800
Yeah. 
So after we go through a says, 

588
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,900
recommend and roadmap now you 
have your strategy. 

589
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,600
I think the final step now is 
communicate communicate 

590
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,400
communicate tell everybody about
your strategy presented to your 

591
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:14,000
peers presented back to the 
folks that participated in 

592
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,100
helping you You define what's 
working well, and what's not 

593
00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:20,200
working? 
Well, get by in, right? 

594
00:33:20,300 --> 00:33:23,700
And I would really start if you 
can kind of at more of the 

595
00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:28,200
Grassroots level, the people who
participated and then work your 

596
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,400
way up the channel. 
So that you're presenting to you

597
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,000
an executive team, letting them 
know that you have buy-in leg 

598
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,200
them, know how you got to build 
the strategy who you talked 

599
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,000
with, and that you've gone back 
to those teams and they're 

600
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:47,300
buying in and it, my Experienced
executive teams are going to 

601
00:33:47,300 --> 00:33:48,900
want to know. 
Does everybody agree with? 

602
00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:52,800
Does everybody agree that this 
is is the solution and then 

603
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,200
they're going to want to know 
how much does it cost, everybody

604
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:58,800
agree. 
And how much does it cost, 

605
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,500
right? 
Yeah. 

606
00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:04,500
But I mean and and again 
probably a another topic for 

607
00:34:04,500 --> 00:34:07,900
another time is really going 
about communicating, but that's 

608
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,600
kind of the soft skills, right? 
It's about marketing, right? 

609
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:14,500
It is that, when you're at, that
point is all about. 

610
00:34:14,699 --> 00:34:16,100
Marketing. 
You got to be able to 

611
00:34:16,100 --> 00:34:19,400
communicate approval and you 
start going into projects. 

612
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,900
That's where the technology is 
going to be technical skills are

613
00:34:22,900 --> 00:34:27,400
going to be even more valuable 
because if you're a program 

614
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,900
manager and you're running 
projects, you don't want to get,

615
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,800
you don't want to get 
technobabble to death or or 

616
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,500
tricked. 
You want to be able to evaluate 

617
00:34:39,500 --> 00:34:42,500
that yourself and make sure that
you get it. 

618
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:45,100
That was always my thing, you 
know, there's Was 

619
00:34:45,900 --> 00:34:51,900
technology-related that was you 
know, outside of my expertise. 

620
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:56,000
I see explain it to me until I 
understand it and eventually I 

621
00:34:56,007 --> 00:34:59,100
would not either understand it 
or they couldn't explain it to 

622
00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:01,600
me in a way that I understood 
and then I didn't want anything 

623
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,800
to do with it. 
Yeah. 

624
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,400
You can't articulate the value 
of whatever it is. 

625
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,000
You're trying to do and it's 
obviously extends Beyond just I 

626
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,300
am but you can actually fit 
articulate. 

627
00:35:12,300 --> 00:35:14,500
The value of what the i m Prime 
is going to bring what your 

628
00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:17,200
Trying to do, you're not gonna 
get the money to do anything. 

629
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,400
I mean, right? 
I mean it's you have to be able 

630
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,000
to tell the story of why we're 
doing this. 

631
00:35:24,100 --> 00:35:26,200
What's the benefit for it? 
How does it make our life 

632
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,400
better, right? 
The trains that will get you the

633
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,100
money. 
Theoretically. 

634
00:35:31,300 --> 00:35:33,800
All right, you know, how much 
money is always up for today? 

635
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,600
I mean budgets are always a, you
know, hot button item, some 

636
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,200
companies, you know may have, 
you know, set aside already 

637
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,000
money for that or some haven't 
really in some I've been 

638
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,200
thinking about it for a while 
and you know the longer you 

639
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:48,500
wait. 
Typically the more you got to 

640
00:35:48,508 --> 00:35:51,800
spend up to get caught up, so to
speak, but if you can't 

641
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,400
articulate the value or what 
you're trying to do, nobody's 

642
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,400
going to approve, any type of 
spending for that. 

643
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,300
Yeah. 
So you want to be able to start 

644
00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:03,000
and start to master that 
communication strategy of what 

645
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,600
is, what are we trying to do 
here? 

646
00:36:04,700 --> 00:36:08,100
Why are we doing it in? 
And why is it important, right? 

647
00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:12,500
Those sorts of things. 
I think that provides a pretty 

648
00:36:12,500 --> 00:36:15,900
good summary of our process. 
Could probably leave it there 

649
00:36:15,900 --> 00:36:17,800
for now. 
I agree. 

650
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,700
I think you know our goal I 
think today was kind of Kick 

651
00:36:21,700 --> 00:36:24,400
this thing off, right? 
Just started. 

652
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,500
And these are the types of 
conversations will have dive 

653
00:36:27,500 --> 00:36:31,300
into some more of these areas 
will, you know, this really the 

654
00:36:31,300 --> 00:36:34,600
plan part that we talked about 
today we'll talk about build 

655
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,600
projects about how to run 
operations environment. 

656
00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:43,100
Does the kind of top Topics that
people are interested in. 

657
00:36:43,100 --> 00:36:45,700
I think they'll still enjoy this
podcast. 

658
00:36:46,100 --> 00:36:49,100
Yeah, I'm a really, you know, 
creates a wide range of topics, 

659
00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:51,100
anything it's really Identity or
related. 

660
00:36:51,300 --> 00:36:56,300
It's probably in scope for us. 
That's current events topics 

661
00:36:56,300 --> 00:36:58,600
that we see come up during our 
own advisor engagements that 

662
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,900
were working on and you have 
items that we might come across.

663
00:37:00,900 --> 00:37:03,800
That people might find 
interesting. 

664
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,600
And if those us, particularly, 
if there's a particular, you 

665
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,500
know, topic or if you've got a 
question or just general 

666
00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:11,000
feedback, you can always email 
us. 

667
00:37:11,100 --> 00:37:22,800
That questions at identity at 
the center.com, awesome. 

668
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,600
Jeff. 
I think it was great. 

669
00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:28,300
I think that was it for our 
first one so we're going to call

670
00:37:28,300 --> 00:37:31,000
it there and thanks all for 
listening to take care.