1
00:00:05,300 --> 00:00:10,800
This is identity at the center. 
If it has anything to do with I 

2
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:18,000
am this is the go-to podcast. 
Now your hosts Jim McDonald and 

3
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,000
Jeff Steadman. 
Welcome to the identity of the 

4
00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:23,200
center podcast. 
I'm Jeff. 

5
00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:24,400
And that's Jim. 
Hey, Jim. 

6
00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,400
Hey, Jeff, how are you? 
Oh, not so bad yourself. 

7
00:00:28,100 --> 00:00:30,300
I'm good. 
I've been wondering. 

8
00:00:30,300 --> 00:00:33,700
Are you excited for your trip to
London which starts early next 

9
00:00:33,700 --> 00:00:35,000
week? 
Yeah. 

10
00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,200
So recording this one advance. 
I figure when this one's going 

11
00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,000
to go live think, probably July 
3rd. 

12
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,500
So I will have returned from one
at that point. 

13
00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,600
But kicked out in the fourth 
wall today is June 15th as we 

14
00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,400
record this. 
So I have not even thought about

15
00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,500
London. 
Yet, I just want to get to the 

16
00:00:52,500 --> 00:00:54,800
next two days and get through 
this week and kind of get 

17
00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,800
things, you know, buttoned up. 
And then I will start to think 

18
00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:59,600
about it but yeah, it is getting
close. 

19
00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,900
So I'm looking forward to that. 
Hopefully be able to connect to 

20
00:01:01,900 --> 00:01:04,300
some people in that area and 
dementia. 

21
00:01:04,300 --> 00:01:08,700
May be meeting up with Andy for 
40 or putting a pub crawl or 

22
00:01:08,700 --> 00:01:11,400
something like that. 
So we'll seeing crumpets tea and

23
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,600
crumpets. 
So I have not been to London 

24
00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,300
proper ever. 
So it'll be my first time 

25
00:01:16,300 --> 00:01:18,800
visiting the city but yeah, 
we'll get that. 

26
00:01:18,900 --> 00:01:21,500
I will be looking forward to it 
after I get The next two days. 

27
00:01:22,300 --> 00:01:25,100
Well, I know you're going for 
the, the Cubs and Cardinals 

28
00:01:25,100 --> 00:01:27,100
game. 
And you remember, the question I

29
00:01:27,107 --> 00:01:29,800
asked you, the first time I met,
you, do you like baseball? 

30
00:01:29,900 --> 00:01:33,000
You said, no. 
But you like it enough to go. 

31
00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,300
There you like two Cubs and 
actually, the Cubs are doing 

32
00:01:36,500 --> 00:01:39,100
pretty decent this year. 
Are they the Cardinals? 

33
00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:40,900
Well, the car driving catch up 
on it. 

34
00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,700
Cardinals are one of the worst 
teams in baseball and they've 

35
00:01:43,700 --> 00:01:45,700
got a great, some big-name 
players. 

36
00:01:45,700 --> 00:01:48,900
So if you had a chance to see a 
Cubs win, yeah, hopefully to 

37
00:01:48,900 --> 00:01:50,600
apply that fly. 
The Big Apple WI. 

38
00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,700
Out there and go for it. 
So yeah, I'm not much of a 

39
00:01:53,700 --> 00:01:55,800
baseball fan but the Cubs are my
team. 

40
00:01:56,100 --> 00:01:59,100
And yeah, this is a makeup from 
a pandemic trip. 

41
00:01:59,100 --> 00:02:01,700
That we were planning all fears 
back at this point. 

42
00:02:01,700 --> 00:02:04,800
So this is when it got 
rescheduled and so we're we're 

43
00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,600
making the trip out there to see
that and do other things so 

44
00:02:08,100 --> 00:02:10,699
yeah, I'll be good time. 
So look I so I said I will be 

45
00:02:10,699 --> 00:02:13,000
looking forward to it after I 
get the next two days. 

46
00:02:14,100 --> 00:02:17,600
So we're recording an intro. 
Today, I recorded with Martin 

47
00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,900
grouping or yesterday he's been 
on the show in the Has he was on

48
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,000
episode 106 where he gave us his
origin story, how it got into. 

49
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,600
I am sitting ask that question 
again, as per our tradition is 

50
00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,900
also an episode 194 and then so 
this will be episode. 

51
00:02:34,900 --> 00:02:37,700
What? 
220, yeah. 

52
00:02:37,700 --> 00:02:41,400
Number 220. 
Yeah, the hits just keep on 

53
00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,300
coming baby. 
They sure do. 

54
00:02:43,300 --> 00:02:47,600
So yeah, unfortunately had a 
late-breaking meeting and just 

55
00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,300
to prove that the podcast is not
our full-time job. 

56
00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,200
I needed to address business 
first so you were able to have a

57
00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,900
conversation so so that's good. 
Let's see before we get to that 

58
00:02:58,900 --> 00:03:00,500
conversation. 
Well why don't you tease? 

59
00:03:00,500 --> 00:03:02,600
I guess a little bit because I 
have not listened to it yet. 

60
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,600
I'm going to listen to it. 
Obviously while I'm doing the 

61
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,500
edit for this show but what you 
guys talk about. 

62
00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,500
Yeah, so we talked about the EI 
C, which is the European 

63
00:03:11,500 --> 00:03:16,200
identity and Cloud conference 
which is hosted in Berlin. 

64
00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:20,700
I got to watch a lot of that as 
it was happening from LinkedIn. 

65
00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,600
Gavin and having that fomo or 
not from, I guess I would be 

66
00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,800
fear of missing out. 
I was just in regret not being 

67
00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,500
there, really wasn't anything 
there, but Martin gives kind of 

68
00:03:31,500 --> 00:03:35,400
the highlights of that. 
Then we just kind of, like I 

69
00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,200
pick his brain. 
I mean, you know, he's one of 

70
00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,200
the big brains in our industry. 
So, went through some various 

71
00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,700
topics, got his perspective. 
On them also went through a 

72
00:03:45,700 --> 00:03:49,200
lightning around because we 
don't want to have two hour-long

73
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,200
episodes. 
And Kind of the the same thing 

74
00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:53,700
that I ask them a little bit 
more on. 

75
00:03:53,700 --> 00:03:58,100
What's up coming for cooping or 
coal terms of additional 

76
00:03:58,100 --> 00:04:03,500
conferences in terms of 
leadership compasses? 

77
00:04:03,500 --> 00:04:07,200
Which is the name of their kind 
of their market analysis 

78
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,900
reports? 
And I also ask them some 

79
00:04:09,900 --> 00:04:12,900
questions about like the 
development of those reports and

80
00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,600
you know what, what makes a good
report? 

81
00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,399
What do you tell people who are 
new analysts working for your 

82
00:04:18,399 --> 00:04:22,400
firm that you're looking for out
of out of the Report and then 

83
00:04:22,900 --> 00:04:26,000
kind of for a lighter note. 
You know, we always have to 

84
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:27,800
finish with a little bit of a 
lighter note. 

85
00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,100
Okay. 
Now which I think you guys talk 

86
00:04:30,100 --> 00:04:31,700
about social media or is it 
something else? 

87
00:04:32,300 --> 00:04:35,600
No, it was it was social media. 
I mean because I want to get 

88
00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,600
Martin's perspective on. 
How does he use social media? 

89
00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,500
Use a LinkedIn guy? 
I don't know him, I wouldn't 

90
00:04:42,500 --> 00:04:44,200
have known. 
If he did have some Community 

91
00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,500
outside of like damn that's 
pretty much all I use but he's 

92
00:04:47,500 --> 00:04:51,200
pretty prolific on LinkedIn and 
you know I've recommended Ended,

93
00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,500
you know going out there and 
following him and then he kind 

94
00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:57,300
of gives us his perspective on 
what he shares. 

95
00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,100
Hmm. 
Okay well why don't we get that 

96
00:05:00,100 --> 00:05:03,100
conversation before we do that 
though just to remind people you

97
00:05:03,100 --> 00:05:05,000
and I are going to be the 
authenticate conference which is

98
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,800
the next thing that identity is 
Center will officially be out 

99
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,500
where the official podcast for 
authenticate 2023 which is very 

100
00:05:11,500 --> 00:05:12,900
cool. 
I think that's I think that's 

101
00:05:12,900 --> 00:05:15,900
the first time we can say that 
is that this is the first time 

102
00:05:15,900 --> 00:05:18,600
we're in official anything for 
anything, right? 

103
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,100
Exactly. 
That's true. 

104
00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,400
And The authenticate 
conferences, the Fido Alliance 

105
00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,800
Conference Finals, like, 
blistering hot. 

106
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,800
You know, one of the things I 
realized that I Denver's is, you

107
00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,500
know, kind of came to the 
conclusion that everybody's in 

108
00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:34,700
favor of what they do. 
And actually that was the topic 

109
00:05:34,700 --> 00:05:37,600
I've come up with with Martin is
like everybody seems to be in 

110
00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,300
favor of this. 
What's your perspective? 

111
00:05:39,300 --> 00:05:43,700
So he shares that but yeah, it's
going to be a great conference 

112
00:05:43,700 --> 00:05:46,500
brings together. 
A lot of the big mines in our 

113
00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:53,500
industry and I This one of the 
topics we get into which is 

114
00:05:54,100 --> 00:05:57,400
digital identity versus identity
access management and I think I 

115
00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,500
didn T access management was the
core the digital identity starts

116
00:06:01,500 --> 00:06:04,700
to get into a lot of these 
expending topics. 

117
00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:08,300
You see a lot of those 
conversations happening at the 

118
00:06:08,300 --> 00:06:10,500
fight Alliance authenticate 
conference. 

119
00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,000
That's a great conference, 
gotten bigger and better every 

120
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,000
year, this we should be the 
biggest and best so far. 

121
00:06:16,500 --> 00:06:18,900
It's in Carlsbad California, 
which is just North of San 

122
00:06:18,900 --> 00:06:22,500
Diego. 
It's October 16. 18th and we 

123
00:06:22,500 --> 00:06:25,200
were able to score a discount 
code for our listeners or 

124
00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,400
anybody who really finds out 
about it, Kitty's it. 

125
00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:33,000
But the code is idac 15 podcast.
So we'll have a link in our show

126
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:34,600
notes for people to check that 
out. 

127
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,300
That's a great way to support 
the show. 

128
00:06:36,300 --> 00:06:38,500
It's a great conference. 
It's a lot of fun, a lot of 

129
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,900
really smart people be there and
it's I would say it's a more 

130
00:06:40,900 --> 00:06:43,900
technically focused conference 
special round of medication. 

131
00:06:43,900 --> 00:06:49,200
So if that is, you know, your 
jam come on out there and see 

132
00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,000
how use our code and, you know, 
No, let us know so we can give 

133
00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,000
you a fist bumps of gratitude 
when you show up there. 

134
00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,700
So anything else or should we 
get to your conversation with 

135
00:06:58,700 --> 00:07:00,700
Martin? 
I think we should get to it. 

136
00:07:00,900 --> 00:07:02,400
Okay, let's do it. 
Here it is. 

137
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,400
Good evening, Martin. 
How are you tonight? 

138
00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,700
Ducks, I had a bit of a long 
travel into a sort of east of 

139
00:07:15,700 --> 00:07:21,800
Munich today, but the usual 
stuff was to turn right away. 

140
00:07:22,500 --> 00:07:24,700
So we're you driving everything 
else. 

141
00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,800
All these things that are 
happening right now and then 

142
00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,400
travel right away, but I arrived
from so it's fine. 

143
00:07:32,500 --> 00:07:36,100
I think there's this conception 
that in Germany, you have the 

144
00:07:36,100 --> 00:07:38,600
Autobahn, right? 
So if you drive from place to 

145
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,300
place you get on the Autobahn, 
no speed limit and everybody's 

146
00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:46,300
driving, you know, 200 
kilometers an hour is that the 

147
00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:50,500
way it is. 
So I try to avoid driving but I 

148
00:07:50,508 --> 00:07:52,800
can take the train even while 
they are. 

149
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,000
Sometimes some bumpy things was 
to tell me right away, but at 

150
00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:01,900
the end of the day, you know, 
driving means a lot of cues. 

151
00:08:02,500 --> 00:08:07,800
And the times and routes where 
you really can speed are 

152
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,400
relatively rare. 
And at the end of the bar, for 

153
00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,700
certain level of speed is really
became becomes dangerous. 

154
00:08:14,700 --> 00:08:18,900
And so I really attempted to 
take the more relaxed train 

155
00:08:18,900 --> 00:08:22,200
travel where you can read where 
you can work where you can 

156
00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,300
relax, I believe it's more 
convenient. 

157
00:08:28,500 --> 00:08:33,200
So great, you know. 
I don't trust last week and I 

158
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:38,400
came back from France and you're
traveling rather relaxed for 

159
00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,600
whatever 8 or 9 hours or so 
through France. 

160
00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:47,600
Then you come to Germany and the
traffic is way more dense. 

161
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:54,900
It's not very well flowing when 
there's a terrific is 10 so then

162
00:08:54,900 --> 00:08:58,300
so then people are trying to 
trash that they have to stop 

163
00:08:58,300 --> 00:09:01,200
again and Cetera you end up in 
queueing. 

164
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,100
So we spend 45 minutes in a 
queue. 

165
00:09:04,100 --> 00:09:07,900
We didn't have a have any 
traffic chairman in France, for 

166
00:09:07,900 --> 00:09:11,100
the time. 
So I think that the fun of 

167
00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:15,800
driving having trouble is 
massively overrated from an 

168
00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,000
outside perspective that leads 
to my opinion. 

169
00:09:19,700 --> 00:09:22,600
I probably get a lot of negative
feedback right out from all the 

170
00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,500
ones with me to just broadcast 
it. 

171
00:09:24,500 --> 00:09:29,700
Our interests lastic drivers. 
But as I've said, I'm, I'm more 

172
00:09:29,700 --> 00:09:32,900
the Public public transport 
side, which is very good over 

173
00:09:32,900 --> 00:09:35,400
here. 
I like taking the train as well.

174
00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:40,000
You also see the world, enjoy it
a little bit and get some work 

175
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,100
done. 
Like you said, so we are 

176
00:09:42,300 --> 00:09:47,100
Recording this episode in the 
month of June, it's going to 

177
00:09:47,100 --> 00:09:54,800
drop on July the 3rd, but in the
month of May in Berlin, you held

178
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,700
the EIC which is the European 
identity and Cloud conference, 

179
00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:02,400
right? 
It looked like an amazing event.

180
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,800
I was kind of following along in
my LinkedIn feed definitely 

181
00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,800
regret missing it. 
Unfortunately, it's, you know, 

182
00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,300
we can only make it to so many 
conferences per year and the 

183
00:10:14,300 --> 00:10:18,200
travel from the u.s. to Europe 
is kind of was prohibited for us

184
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,000
this year. 
Hopefully, next year, we can 

185
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,300
make it. 
Can you give me some of the 

186
00:10:23,300 --> 00:10:26,800
highlights from the conference? 
What was what was it like? 

187
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,600
Yeah. 
So first it was the biggest yes 

188
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,700
you ever. 
So we had so many people this 

189
00:10:33,700 --> 00:10:38,600
here way more than in the 
previous years also. 

190
00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:44,200
A lot of people trying in 
virtually we had in on the first

191
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,300
day we had a workshop where we 
really looked up. 

192
00:10:47,300 --> 00:10:50,500
So to speak all the different 
elements and how to sort of 

193
00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:53,400
Select what you need identity 
management. 

194
00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:59,100
And so we were three from our 
clinical team, MLS team doing 

195
00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:03,000
the drugs from and I spent more 
less the entire four hours just 

196
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,300
responding to questions because 
we had I think 60 or 70 or 80 

197
00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:11,000
online questions which Never 
experienced an in any of these 

198
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,600
events. 
There was a really huge 

199
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,700
engagement. 
I learned that we had some 400 

200
00:11:15,700 --> 00:11:22,300
people, so 100 something in your
room and 300 or so training 

201
00:11:22,300 --> 00:11:25,800
virtually for this Workshop. 
So we added a huge audience and 

202
00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,300
I think it was a cool thing at 
this conference because there's 

203
00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:32,600
a lot of interaction, a lot of 
discussion aside of all the 

204
00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:37,600
panels and presentations and 
Keynotes, and topic wise, I 

205
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,700
think what Of the hot things. 
Definitely was decent her 

206
00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:45,400
identity and more to practical 
use case for another. 

207
00:11:45,500 --> 00:11:47,900
So, how to make this work. 
So I spent some time for 

208
00:11:47,900 --> 00:11:52,900
instance, talking about really 
Enterprise, use cases, and the 

209
00:11:52,900 --> 00:11:55,200
value of decentralized. 
Identify the Enterprise, I 

210
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,600
believe you can do a lot of 
things better in aichi, a for 

211
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,700
instance, in onboarding process.
But also when we didn't add, 

212
00:12:01,700 --> 00:12:03,100
this was another important 
topic. 

213
00:12:03,100 --> 00:12:07,400
Let me comb or to policy-based 
access them, then all these 

214
00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:11,300
these we seized or Proofs is 
verifiable trenches or cold. 

215
00:12:11,700 --> 00:12:14,900
They can, they are in fact 
attributes for a position. 

216
00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:17,800
We can use some policies. 
I think this is this is a pretty

217
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,000
pretty cool thing. 
So these are some of the topics 

218
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,500
that were very hot but it's 
usually I see there's a good mix

219
00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:30,000
between really fundamentals of 
identity management up to the 

220
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:35,600
very future looking topics. 
So we don't try to cover the 

221
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:41,100
entire range. 
What is your like average level 

222
00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:44,400
of experience for your guests? 
Who attend the conference? 

223
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:48,900
Are they people who are new to 
the industry couple years, or 

224
00:12:48,900 --> 00:12:51,600
they people who've been in the 
industry for a long time. 

225
00:12:52,500 --> 00:12:56,300
I think it's increasingly more 
about worse. 

226
00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:01,100
So in the, in the early years 
there, so we are running EIC 

227
00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:03,900
since 2007. 
So in the early years it was 

228
00:13:03,900 --> 00:13:06,900
really erratic relatively small 
group of us. 

229
00:13:07,100 --> 00:13:12,200
Entity professionals that crew. 
But in the, I would say, the 

230
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,100
past two years after the 
pandemic. 

231
00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:17,300
I've seen so many people. 
I've met so many people, I've 

232
00:13:17,300 --> 00:13:19,200
never met before. 
The are really new to the 

233
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:24,900
industry that quickly come with 
some experience or from other 

234
00:13:25,100 --> 00:13:28,700
markets from other areas, come 
from cybersecurity, come from 

235
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:33,700
other it areas or that our young
people that are entering the 

236
00:13:33,700 --> 00:13:36,300
market. 
So it really has changed. 

237
00:13:37,500 --> 00:13:42,700
So it's not to trust the old IJ 
people, that have been whatever 

238
00:13:42,700 --> 00:13:45,000
already working with son, 
identity manager. 

239
00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:49,800
But really, it's a very, very 
mixed and very heterogeneous, 

240
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,500
very diverse group know, it's 
interesting. 

241
00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:56,200
Tell me a little bit about the 
expo, hall, the vendor Hall. 

242
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,600
I always feel like a 
conferences, that's such a great

243
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:04,300
area to catch up with people and
rekindle old relationships, and 

244
00:14:04,300 --> 00:14:07,000
make new relationships. 
Yeah. 

245
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,200
So what we do is we don't have 
a, we have an act for all. 

246
00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:14,000
We don't have an expo hall. 
So what we don't have is we 

247
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,900
don't have this Hall, which is 
segregated from the rest. 

248
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:24,000
But for instance, in the the 
boozes they are in the area 

249
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,300
where you also pick your food. 
So sure, get breaks. 

250
00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:31,600
There's there's a you a lot of 
interactions of people are 

251
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,900
around the different bruises 
etcetera and I think this is 

252
00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:39,900
something which we Means that 
there's always plenty of 

253
00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:45,000
opportunity to talk with mr. 
Wenders, without extra walking 

254
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,300
into separate halt halt, that 
are maybe even bigger way, so 

255
00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:54,300
that it's very cozy in that 
sense so to speak. 

256
00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:58,100
And so, I think this is 
something which is a bit 

257
00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:00,300
different than for several other
conferences. 

258
00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:05,900
I've been out in the past. 
So in terms of speakers at the 

259
00:15:05,900 --> 00:15:11,600
conference did you have mostly 
Cooper Miracle analysts or were 

260
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,400
there other people who were also
speakers that at different 

261
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,900
things? 
And you know thinking of some of

262
00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:23,900
the past analysts who have been 
on our show includes Paul Fisher

263
00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:26,700
and John Tolbert. 
Were those folks, they're 

264
00:15:26,700 --> 00:15:30,100
presenting on their areas of 
expertise and then did you have 

265
00:15:30,100 --> 00:15:34,700
other people from the outside? 
As that JD I see is not a 

266
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:40,300
catalyst only conference, which 
is a few others talking. 

267
00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:46,300
So we always try to have a very 
good mix between analyst analyst

268
00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:49,000
presenting. 
But also analyst participating 

269
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,700
in perils endless are 
frequently, the moderators so 

270
00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:57,700
that they can moderate. 
Real is with a big or strong 

271
00:15:57,700 --> 00:15:59,700
knowledge about what they are 
moderating. 

272
00:16:00,700 --> 00:16:05,400
But we also actually have to 
dispense Kino, it's we have a 

273
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:09,100
lot of panels with industry 
experts and I think, when you 

274
00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:14,500
look at who were all speaking 
them, many many of the, the 

275
00:16:14,500 --> 00:16:17,800
well-known industry experts are 
there, both from web to vendor 

276
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:19,200
side. 
But also, from the end user 

277
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,100
side, we have we have end-user 
presentations or best practices.

278
00:16:23,100 --> 00:16:27,300
A lot where people talk about 
what they experienced in making 

279
00:16:27,300 --> 00:16:29,900
things work. 
So I think we have a really 

280
00:16:29,900 --> 00:16:33,800
broad mix of different different
Topics. 

281
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,300
And then we have a couple of 
tracks always running in 

282
00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:38,800
parallel. 
So a lot of choice between 

283
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,400
different types of sessions. 
Yeah, I really like going to 

284
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,200
panel sessions because I know 
personally, I prefer to 

285
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:51,400
participate in a panel rather 
than be up in be a solo speaker.

286
00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:56,600
I think it invites more, people 
who would not speak to get up 

287
00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,600
there and share their opinions 
which kind of leads into the 

288
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,500
next question I had for you, 
which was You know was there 

289
00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:07,800
anything that you learned or 
heard that you didn't know or 

290
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:12,599
maybe challenge some existing 
belief that you held going into 

291
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:16,700
the conference? 
Yeah that's always a good 

292
00:17:16,700 --> 00:17:18,800
question. 
So I think I'm still learning on

293
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:20,400
everything around. 
He seemed relaxed identity 

294
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,599
because it's so much and flow. 
So this is definitely one of the

295
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:29,900
areas where I see it is 
continuously evolving given 

296
00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:31,800
that. 
I spent some time in what rating

297
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:36,800
the identity fat Prix track. 
This truly was a bit more about 

298
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:42,300
the sort of the fondant 
foundational aspects where I'm, 

299
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:52,500
I'm relatively familiar with but
I think that where we all I 

300
00:17:52,508 --> 00:17:55,800
think to learn a lot of sand 
where I tried also to educated 

301
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,200
but there's some salt is there 
on the potential for 

302
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,500
policy-based Access, which is 
for my perspective, her 

303
00:18:03,700 --> 00:18:09,600
Definitely a very critical area 
of a very huge potential, but we

304
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:15,200
also saw, what was definitely 
some discussion around the 

305
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,200
upcoming. 
Yeah, I'd us 2.0 regulation in 

306
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,200
Europe. 
So which is about the 

307
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,800
interoperability of Eid within 
Europe and potentially Beyond 

308
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,900
which also relates into EU 
wallet. 

309
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,200
Projects are as links to these 
gender identity aspects. 

310
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:36,200
This is really one of these 
areas which I will further 

311
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,600
analyze from where I've been one
of those subject. 

312
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,100
I will definitely take a closer 
look at this everything around 

313
00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:48,900
shared signals which goes a bit 
into which is somewhere between 

314
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:55,000
identity and cyber security. 
So they were so many topics and 

315
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,800
I still I think have a quite 
quite a list of things I'd like 

316
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:02,100
to to cover in the some of my 
LinkedIn posts and blog posts 

317
00:19:02,300 --> 00:19:04,300
within the next Couple of weeks 
a month. 

318
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,300
Yeah. 
So I would definitely recommend 

319
00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:10,900
that anybody who's not following
Martin right now on LinkedIn. 

320
00:19:10,900 --> 00:19:14,200
It's something I would recommend
to do. 

321
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,700
Thank you. 
You know, Martin, I wanted to 

322
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,200
bring up a couple of Hot Topics 
in the identity space. 

323
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:28,400
Really get your impression or 
your, your current thinking on 

324
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,300
them. 
And what I really want to know 

325
00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:32,700
is there some of these things 
Revolution? 

326
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:38,000
Terry or evolutionary and you're
starting from the premise that 

327
00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:43,000
the identity access management 
space or digital identity is I 

328
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,200
think people are calling it 
more. 

329
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:49,100
Now, these days we had access 
management, we had identity 

330
00:19:49,100 --> 00:19:52,000
management, which later became 
identity. 

331
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,700
Governance, we had proved 
privileged access management but

332
00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:59,900
now there's all these new areas 
and I want to know, you know 

333
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,000
what your thoughts are on 
specifically Some of these areas

334
00:20:04,100 --> 00:20:06,700
whether you think they're going 
to have a Major Impact or 

335
00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:09,200
they're going to kind of fade 
away. 

336
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:15,400
So the first item I like that, 
what you said I am versus 

337
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,200
digital ID because I think 
digital ID is just a broader 

338
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,400
term. 
It covers more than the 

339
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,500
traditional identity and access 
management so it's a digital ID 

340
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:29,200
looks at all types of identities
looks at new use cases. 

341
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,300
A lot of things around 
decentralized identity and I 

342
00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:36,100
think there is also reason why 
we see so many new people into 

343
00:20:36,100 --> 00:20:42,800
space because it's growing well 
beyond the traditional, I do 

344
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:44,900
them. 
Tray ml trying to move over, 

345
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,000
never workflow and a bit of role
management stuff. 

346
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,900
I totally agree. 
I feel like the space is 

347
00:20:52,900 --> 00:20:55,600
evolving. 
The name had to evolve to be 

348
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,300
more compassing of the space and
things that are coming up. 

349
00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:01,700
And the first one I'm going to 
bring up, I think is a perfect 

350
00:21:01,700 --> 00:21:04,600
example of this. 
So which is this concept around 

351
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:09,200
decentralized or user-centric 
identity self Sovereign, I'd 

352
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,400
give you whatever you want to 
call it and wallets. 

353
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:16,200
Game Changer or not. 
And are we looking at this 

354
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,700
actually you know, coming to 
fruition that everybody kind of 

355
00:21:19,900 --> 00:21:22,800
starts to feel it within the 
next few years. 

356
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,300
Yeah it's definitely more 
revolutionary side. 

357
00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:31,200
I talked a lot about especially 
when I talked about the 

358
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,100
Enterprise use case and I said 
in some way it's disruptive, but

359
00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:37,200
it's also not disruptive it's 
disruptive. 

360
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,900
In the sense that it enables us 
to do a lot of things better and

361
00:21:40,900 --> 00:21:47,400
a lot of news things we couldn't
do so far and I think there will

362
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:52,500
be a lot of things that we don't
have on the radar yet or most 

363
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:53,800
have don't have on the radar 
yet. 

364
00:21:54,200 --> 00:22:00,900
So truly go beyond his time in 
scope of today's call but many 

365
00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:04,200
years ago probably 10 12 years 
ago we talked about something we

366
00:22:04,208 --> 00:22:05,900
called life management 
platforms. 

367
00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:10,400
Which was an idea, a concept 
that would allow someone to keep

368
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:17,500
all the relevant things. 
Like whatever their to pay 

369
00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:22,800
salary statements insurance 
contracts and whatever else 

370
00:22:22,900 --> 00:22:26,900
somewhere in the the web and 
control access to that, I 

371
00:22:26,900 --> 00:22:30,600
believe, with decentralised 
identity, we can finally realize

372
00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:34,900
such models, which allows us 
typically different way of 

373
00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:38,200
interaction the internet. 
So there's a huge disruptive 

374
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:42,000
potential but it's also 
non-disruptive. 

375
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,500
If so, a decentralized identity,
doesn't break the fact that a 

376
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,200
retailer has a system of records
that they have their own 

377
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,000
back-end systems, at the end of 
the day, it still means there's 

378
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,700
Marty cooking or purchasing 
something. 

379
00:22:56,100 --> 00:22:58,400
Trusted mapping could be here 
comes in a little different way,

380
00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:04,100
so it doesn't break the bag and 
and for IGA for instance, we can

381
00:23:04,100 --> 00:23:07,200
use it for onboarding because we
can use that verification. 

382
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,800
Then my wallet are is the 
rarefied credential based on our

383
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,300
video. 
And for instance, that I'm out 

384
00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:18,000
in cooking oil based on my 
naturally ID card, that's very 

385
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,300
good for onboarding. 
Because it's a tool for this is 

386
00:23:21,300 --> 00:23:26,800
Martin kobler onboarding at 
cooking column list and this 

387
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,700
simplifies the onboarding 
process which is a very costly 

388
00:23:30,700 --> 00:23:32,600
process. 
When you look at onboarding 

389
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,300
process, they are really long 
cumbersome and it cost a lot of 

390
00:23:36,300 --> 00:23:38,100
money. 
We can make them more efficient 

391
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,200
without breaking. 
The, I am system in the Pagan 

392
00:23:41,700 --> 00:23:43,100
when we do. 
Don't do it better. 

393
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,600
When we say, hey, we use the 
verified credentials for 

394
00:23:45,700 --> 00:23:48,900
authorization because they 
contain a lot of information. 

395
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,400
Then we sort of speak to the 
next step because then we add a 

396
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,900
better identity management 
policy based, which truly then 

397
00:23:56,900 --> 00:23:59,700
changes a lot. 
But I think what we must 

398
00:23:59,700 --> 00:24:03,300
understand as we can use it, 
now, you can make a lot of value

399
00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:07,900
now without breaking everything.
But you can evolve from there 

400
00:24:07,900 --> 00:24:15,900
into areas we can land Our await
far away from from today, with 

401
00:24:15,900 --> 00:24:19,400
today's technology. 
So in that sense, there's a also

402
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,500
disruptive potential and it's 
the end. 

403
00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:25,800
I think it's revolutionary 
revolutionary and it feels to me

404
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:31,300
like I think in all things 
technology Legacy is the biggest

405
00:24:31,300 --> 00:24:35,400
threat to hold it back from kind
of moving forward. 

406
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:40,100
I think in this area is probably
more truth in any other area. 

407
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,200
No. 
So given that No, no. 

408
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:48,200
It doesn't take my Ig use case. 
So take the onboarding process 

409
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,300
at the end, the onboarding 
process means that there's 

410
00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:55,500
marketing cooking or that comes 
in and that may go through the 

411
00:24:55,500 --> 00:25:01,200
HR System of the mid co-director
timss, but I used the verifiable

412
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,800
credentials Theses to justify. 
This is Martin is still, my 

413
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:10,600
trust is cetera, et cetera. 
And this makes the process lean 

414
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,200
and then it's in the system and 
the system can continue to work 

415
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:22,100
as it works today from their own
week, then can gradually improve

416
00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:25,600
other things. 
But it isn't that it that the 

417
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:31,700
Legacy hinders Us in adapting 
and discern drives identity. 

418
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,900
This is just not the case. 
Okay, so let's move on to the 

419
00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:40,600
next one. 
So I Eve, the explosion of the 

420
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,000
privileged access management. 
Fees, when you consider 

421
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:50,200
Solutions, like Kim cie a more 
Cloud, Focus Solutions and tools

422
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,100
to support devops Secrets 
management. 

423
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,400
You're looking at at Paul 
Fisher's privileged access 

424
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,000
management leadership Compass. 
I mean, I think there are like 

425
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,800
30 vendors and I listened to the
podcast that Matthias does. 

426
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,400
When you have Paul on it was 
like there are still some that 

427
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,800
could make the cut. 
So it could have been many more 

428
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,800
than 30. 
That feels like an area that 

429
00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:19,100
it's probably being driven 
largely by the cloud, but I want

430
00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:24,100
to get your input. 
You know, is our revenue is a 

431
00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:28,500
revolutionary evolutionary and 
is this where do you see this 

432
00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:33,100
going in the next few years? 
I think, if we will see a lot of

433
00:26:33,100 --> 00:26:39,900
convergence here, So so we have 
secrets management, we have key 

434
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,400
and we have them areas where 
when it's cloudy for Section 

435
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,100
title. 
And remember, so to speak up 

436
00:26:46,100 --> 00:26:48,700
lights as well, then any 
workloads that run on premises 

437
00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:51,800
in, on a couple native 
environment where we have 

438
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,700
certain but not all of the 
problems we have in the public 

439
00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:58,300
cloud or a public is 
infrastructure as a service 

440
00:26:58,300 --> 00:27:01,300
environment and we have to 
traditional impairment. 

441
00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:05,700
So I believe that we will see 
see a lot of So we will see 

442
00:27:06,100 --> 00:27:10,900
Shirley several more startups 
appearing, but over time it will

443
00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:14,000
be the usual, some of the 
commercial vendors at 

444
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:19,500
capabilities, some acquire, some
of the some will remain 

445
00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:22,600
specialized to enter a 
specialist vendors on certain 

446
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,300
areas. 
But I think we also from a 

447
00:27:25,308 --> 00:27:31,200
sinking should look at this as a
As one big problem, which has 

448
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,400
different facets. 
So that complex problems past 

449
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,600
are deconstructed into smaller 
problems. 

450
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,400
And then put together again by, 
there are so many overlaps that 

451
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:44,000
when you deconstruct them sort 
of construct. 

452
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,600
Again, you can will find a lot 
of synergies in the lot of 

453
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,800
overlaps between the different 
areas and so this is where I 

454
00:27:52,808 --> 00:27:56,400
believe we will see you 
conversions from a and then 

455
00:27:56,500 --> 00:27:59,300
evolutionary Revolution. 
Very depends, probably very much

456
00:27:59,300 --> 00:28:04,000
on the standpoint. 
So when you take, whatever 

457
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,800
cyber-ark solution, as it has 
been in the past years and they 

458
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,000
have definitely made progress in
stem. 

459
00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:14,700
But when you take it for 
additional cyber, I can stall 

460
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,700
from that perspective, just will
be sort of speak revolutionary 

461
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:21,200
because it's really something 
way bigger, very different. 

462
00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:24,400
I think, for most vendors in 
this space, it's a loser because

463
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,600
they are already on their 
Journey. 

464
00:28:26,900 --> 00:28:31,100
These are from the Secrets are 
the key more the Tricia pan 

465
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:37,700
space but they are sort of 
rolling their products. 

466
00:28:38,300 --> 00:28:42,400
Yeah it kind of feels to me like
we've got to traditional Pam 

467
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,100
vendors that have focused on the
Enterprise for many years and 

468
00:28:46,100 --> 00:28:52,400
it's now this rapidly evolving 
Cloud infrastructure model AWS. 

469
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:58,200
Google Cloud azure. 
And it's creating opportunities 

470
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:05,000
for innovators to come in for 
for start-up companies to come 

471
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,600
in and solve specific problems. 
That larger firms are will 

472
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,900
ultimately have to catch up to. 
I also think there's some new 

473
00:29:14,900 --> 00:29:18,600
capabilities, you know, like, 
you know, we talked about that 

474
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,900
Kim space to me. 
The biggest thing that comes out

475
00:29:21,900 --> 00:29:27,600
of that is finding identifying 
over-provision accounts and to 

476
00:29:27,608 --> 00:29:31,100
me that approach has been the 
over-provisioned account is the 

477
00:29:31,100 --> 00:29:35,800
account that has roles has 
access assigned and it's not 

478
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,100
using them. 
Yeah, it's not using the access.

479
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:40,400
Yeah. 
And then by the way, that means 

480
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:45,300
that, that showcases its that 
only Pam that relates to Keen, 

481
00:29:45,500 --> 00:29:49,900
for instance, it's also, I Che 
because right, what what you're 

482
00:29:49,900 --> 00:29:52,900
talking about, this at the end, 
that's an X components 

483
00:29:52,900 --> 00:29:55,400
challenge. 
That's right. 

484
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:00,800
And it's over so and we tend to 
First vendors moving from sort 

485
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:06,400
of speak access governance for 
humans and the traditional 

486
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:13,300
static access, chewed-up world 
of systems except accessing 

487
00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:15,500
resources. 
So I think we will see a lot of 

488
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,500
a lot of change here. 
And I'm I'm very convinced that 

489
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:23,000
neither the past nor the IGA 
Market will look the same in 

490
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:24,600
three or five. 
It's from now. 

491
00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:29,800
Yeah, I've said it a few times 
on the podcast that I think the 

492
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,300
way that the IGA Market evolves 
because, you know, we kind of 

493
00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:38,400
like point to that Gartner stop 
doing their magic quadrant on 

494
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:39,800
it. 
In other words, the space was 

495
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,900
mature and there's not enough 
Innovation happening in the 

496
00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:46,600
space to keep doing a magic 
quadrant. 

497
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:54,100
To me that that might be true. 
But I feel like the definition 

498
00:30:54,100 --> 00:30:57,400
of IgA, you know, having one 
place to go to know who has 

499
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,100
access to what it's got to be 
more. 

500
00:31:00,100 --> 00:31:04,300
It's who has access to what, and
what are they doing with it? 

501
00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:08,200
Or they have access to what and 
is that the appropriate access 

502
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:09,900
right? 
Are they using the access? 

503
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,800
You know, you see a lot of 
things happening around AI am L,

504
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:19,000
whatever it is in Iha, for 
instance, we see Things like was

505
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:24,500
one of the topics, I see, I 
trusted put finalized my, my 

506
00:31:24,500 --> 00:31:27,000
leadership competitors on the 
case. 

507
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,600
Risk management Access Control 
tools for sap and find a lot of 

508
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,100
business applications of who 
separate ones fun focusing, 

509
00:31:33,100 --> 00:31:36,700
really on the sap space. 
One more heterogeneous, line of 

510
00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:38,900
business applications. 
That it's interesting to see 

511
00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:43,000
that several vendors from that 
space are are expanding into. 

512
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:44,700
I j. 
So, to speak. 

513
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:50,000
For, also, the whatever. 
Sort of traditional, Ash 

514
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,600
radiactive director and so on 
what work. 

515
00:31:52,900 --> 00:31:56,000
But you also see IGA Wonders 
that are shifting like 88 Point 

516
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,300
mr. 
Erp master that position 

517
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,200
shifting into the outer space, 
the aiarm space. 

518
00:32:01,300 --> 00:32:06,400
And so I Che is not standing. 
Still, this Market is still 

519
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,500
evolving. 
I think I will be way more 

520
00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:11,400
Evolution. 
There's weight was a need for a 

521
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,100
more Evolution to go more into 
just, in time, access and Sarah,

522
00:32:15,700 --> 00:32:20,400
but And so that's why I say 
it'll look very differently 

523
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,900
differently in three years from 
now or five years from now. 

524
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:29,800
But we need still a means to to 
manage identities and accounts 

525
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:36,700
and title months and access. 
Maybe not primarily for static 

526
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,600
entitlements. 
We push it to systems wire 

527
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,900
connectors, but basic Travelers,
including the access governance 

528
00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:46,800
charge. 
And is it then governance for 

529
00:32:47,100 --> 00:32:48,500
forced Adding a title, 
montsouris. 

530
00:32:48,900 --> 00:32:51,900
A governance for policy based 
Access Control to access 

531
00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:53,900
governance. 
This will not go away. 

532
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,400
Yeah, so that's the, that's the 
next topic that I wanted to 

533
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:02,500
bring it into, was authorization
authorizations now on the front 

534
00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:06,800
page, you can. 
And if I think the industry has 

535
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,500
been in love with role based 
access control, it has warts, 

536
00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:15,200
it's not perfect, but people 
conceptually understand. 

537
00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:20,000
Role-based Access Control 
Where's policy based access? 

538
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:26,100
Control is really more focused 
on Dynamic grouping of access 

539
00:33:26,100 --> 00:33:30,700
Dynamic, grouping of users, 
providing them access and 

540
00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:37,400
expanding the data that could 
normally be used within a IG, a 

541
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,500
or Nexus management tool to 
develop roles, that would go 

542
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:45,500
into role-based access control. 
So it seems like policy-based 

543
00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:47,800
access solves so many problems. 
Alms. 

544
00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:53,100
But my concern is that it's held
back by the fact that people are

545
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,700
would be nervous, not understand
it. 

546
00:33:55,900 --> 00:33:58,800
And that I think you've got 
another perspective. 

547
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,500
Also around the auditability of 
it. 

548
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,500
Yeah so I think that we need to 
differentiate. 

549
00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:09,199
I think what organizations best 
for takes a multi-speed 

550
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:13,699
approach. 
Because policy-based access for 

551
00:34:13,699 --> 00:34:16,900
legacy applications is 
definitely more difficult. 

552
00:34:16,900 --> 00:34:20,600
It's not impossible but it's 
more challenging but on the 

553
00:34:20,607 --> 00:34:23,199
other hand we see a strong 
adoption for instance around 

554
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:27,199
opat open policy agent so 
developers of Digital Services 

555
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:30,600
laughs this concept because they
don't want to care for 

556
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,500
authorization. 
They want to ask the system. 

557
00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:38,100
They want to rely on policies 
and just this is facing a strong

558
00:34:38,100 --> 00:34:40,900
uptake. 
So I think it depends really On 

559
00:34:40,900 --> 00:34:44,900
the audience, how fast it's 
going forward. 

560
00:34:44,900 --> 00:34:48,600
So basically I think as an 
organization what you do today 

561
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,900
is you should think about how 
can I move forward towards the 

562
00:34:51,900 --> 00:34:57,400
policy based access future. 
And you know, we need to be 

563
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,200
clear. 
This is not a new thing. 

564
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,400
Tim, you know what has been 
released in 1976 as a product? 

565
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,500
What's right? 
IBM, Rockettes Russell's access 

566
00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:14,000
control facility. 
So 1976 this is 47 years ago, 

567
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:20,900
policy based access control. 
So to speak, in some sense and 

568
00:35:20,900 --> 00:35:23,200
the externalization of 
authorization already was 

569
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:29,700
something that was coming to 
into the market back then, so 

570
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:35,700
it's nothing fundamentally new. 
I think we, there's Surely some,

571
00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:38,800
this will use also from exact 
meal that was hot for a while 

572
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:44,800
and it didn't become as broadly 
used as a lot of people expected

573
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,800
in the industry. 
But I see a huge potential as he

574
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,700
also very significant benefits 
and policy pays taxes. 

575
00:35:52,700 --> 00:35:55,800
And as I said, when we when you 
develop your applications of all

576
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,800
the stuff you do around Digital 
Services, I think it's the 

577
00:35:59,100 --> 00:36:03,500
logical thing to do and then 
this is the fast track so to 

578
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:07,200
speak and then there's the slow 
track which is Modernizing your 

579
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,000
legacy which takes longer and in
between you know we using 

580
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,800
policies for Access Control, 40,
trust everywhere there are 

581
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,600
policies. 
So we do a lot around policy 

582
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,300
based access already and this is
so to speak somewhere between 

583
00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:24,200
the fast track and the slow 
track, where we have where we 

584
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:25,800
have. 
A lot of things. 

585
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,300
We've actually do. 
What we need to do is we need to

586
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,500
to to combine that we need to 
set up the governor's. 

587
00:36:31,500 --> 00:36:33,500
I think the governance is 
definitely very interesting 

588
00:36:33,500 --> 00:36:37,600
point because We have one thing 
where it simplifies a lot. 

589
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,200
So policy, power analysis 
policy, lifecycle. 

590
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,800
Policy governance is way way 
simpler than roll. 

591
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:50,000
Based governance a role based 
environment policies are easy to

592
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,500
understand. 
You can write an natural 

593
00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:55,100
language or something which is 
very close to natural language 

594
00:36:55,700 --> 00:36:59,300
and you can implement the life 
cycles, all that stuff and then 

595
00:36:59,500 --> 00:37:02,900
do a super reviews because 
people understand it because it 

596
00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:04,700
potentially are less our 
policies. 

597
00:37:04,900 --> 00:37:07,900
All good. 
The other point is policies. 

598
00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:11,600
Make decisions based on data 
they receive from certain bond. 

599
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,000
That means that what we also 
need is. 

600
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:21,000
We need Ate our governor to 
ensure that we have the correct 

601
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,400
data. 
We are basing our decisions on. 

602
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,400
So data governance from that 
perspective, must be one of 

603
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,700
them. 
Next, big things that are at 

604
00:37:31,700 --> 00:37:33,500
rest. 
Yeah, I think you're right. 

605
00:37:33,500 --> 00:37:36,900
I mean, the example, I always 
use with the policy based access

606
00:37:36,900 --> 00:37:40,600
control is say, you have data in
a financial system which is 

607
00:37:41,500 --> 00:37:44,200
maybe your account balance. 
And if you're a high net-worth 

608
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,700
client-server over a million 
dollars in assets with this 

609
00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:53,800
firm, then you get access to a 
policy based. 

610
00:37:54,800 --> 00:38:00,000
Grouping or roll and you can 
access certain portions of an 

611
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,100
application or things like that,
but that's that data. 

612
00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:07,500
And from a data governance 
perspective, you need to make 

613
00:38:07,500 --> 00:38:11,700
sure that the inputs into that 
data that it's not going to be 

614
00:38:11,700 --> 00:38:15,400
changed by some application. 
You weren't aware of and now, 

615
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,900
all of a sudden, it starts, 
giving people access that they 

616
00:38:17,900 --> 00:38:20,400
shouldn't have access. 
Yeah, so yeah. 

617
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,800
Now I want to have, you know, 
getting better than what we have

618
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,200
today. 
It's also static entitlements, 

619
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,000
that's not step difficult. 
So because at the end when we 

620
00:38:30,008 --> 00:38:33,300
look at what is the root cause 
of most of the challenges, we 

621
00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:36,400
have an identity traditional 
identity management in our 

622
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,600
static entitlements. 
We need these complex role 

623
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,300
concept because we need to 
manage that entitlement they get

624
00:38:43,300 --> 00:38:45,400
out of control. 
So all the recertification stuff

625
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,500
is because of talent. 
So some of the most painful area

626
00:38:49,100 --> 00:38:52,600
you're dealing with our because 
of these static entitlements. 

627
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,900
Yeah. 
I think Is that the reason Robb 

628
00:38:57,100 --> 00:39:01,200
are back. 
So attractive is so many people 

629
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,900
are starting at Ground Zero and 
it seems like such a major 

630
00:39:04,900 --> 00:39:06,800
Improvement of her where they 
are today. 

631
00:39:07,300 --> 00:39:12,300
They understand it, but let's 
move on because I thought it is 

632
00:39:12,300 --> 00:39:17,500
questions, we were talking and I
really think that this is an 

633
00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:24,900
area of concern for me is that I
hear a lot about the All these 

634
00:39:24,900 --> 00:39:33,400
schnoor, the idea of companies 
kind of building a suite of IM 

635
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,500
capabilities. 
So rather than I'm an IGA vendor

636
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,600
and I continue to improve my 
product and build out the 

637
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,300
functionality that I'm going to 
improve by also having single 

638
00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:49,000
sign-on by also having 
privileged access management. 

639
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,200
My concern is that comes with 
the cost of innovating within 

640
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,700
your course space Us, and we get
less Innovation, the course 

641
00:39:56,700 --> 00:40:00,600
space, and we just get up a 
bunch more sweets. 

642
00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:05,300
Do you think about that? 
I like I said, you know, I see 

643
00:40:05,300 --> 00:40:08,000
so many startups and probably 
more startups never. 

644
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,100
So when we found that compared 
called analysts several people 

645
00:40:12,100 --> 00:40:14,800
that, you know, that is too 
narrow space. 

646
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,700
So few vendors did weren't that 
many identity management 

647
00:40:17,700 --> 00:40:22,800
vendors, back them. 
Nowadays, we have probably ten 

648
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:28,900
times as many vendors as we had 
when we founded a company called

649
00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:36,000
some close to twenty years ago. 
So I think that that means we 

650
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,100
see, always startups coming up. 
And yes, we see Wenders to go 

651
00:40:40,100 --> 00:40:42,900
into we provide more 
capabilities. 

652
00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:47,800
She got very fundamental 
difference to two to four. 

653
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:52,300
More days has Tweets are very 
different than Suites have been 

654
00:40:52,300 --> 00:40:54,700
so to speak. 
These are the Commander's call 

655
00:40:54,700 --> 00:40:57,800
it platforms. 
You may like the term will not. 

656
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:03,200
But what in a world where we 
talk about container-based, 

657
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,900
diplomats very talk about 
microservices very talk about 

658
00:41:05,900 --> 00:41:09,000
apis. 
It is that we don't talk about 

659
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,300
big monolithic systems anymore. 
So what happens in The 

660
00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:18,100
Innovation is usually that 
smaller services are added that 

661
00:41:18,100 --> 00:41:21,400
can communicate that are 
integrated via dashboards and 

662
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,700
biotic by a consoles Vallarta 
abilities that have a consistent

663
00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:28,500
set of apis and that makes it 
simple. 

664
00:41:28,500 --> 00:41:32,500
And I think from a customer 
perspective, we introduced this 

665
00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:34,800
concept of identical bricks a 
couple of years ago. 

666
00:41:35,500 --> 00:41:39,100
And this is not about saying I 
have one product, but it's about

667
00:41:39,100 --> 00:41:42,600
saying, I have a very good 
understanding about which 

668
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,500
Services, I need, which, how 
they are provided, and how they 

669
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:48,900
interoperate. 
And this is always has always 

670
00:41:48,900 --> 00:41:56,900
been Based on the assumption 
that this goes into is based on 

671
00:41:56,900 --> 00:42:01,100
all these modern architectures 
based on apis based on micro 

672
00:42:01,100 --> 00:42:05,900
Services based on its of that 
container based employment Etc. 

673
00:42:05,900 --> 00:42:10,100
And I think, in that way, you 
can well-balanced these two 

674
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,300
challenges of on one hand saying
I want Innovation, I want to be 

675
00:42:14,300 --> 00:42:16,300
able to add Innovative Parts 
into it. 

676
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,300
And this is way easier than in 
the past, you know, you can 

677
00:42:20,300 --> 00:42:24,100
address examples. 
I'm frequently talking with 

678
00:42:25,300 --> 00:42:30,400
taking westerners and when I go 
back a couple of years, then 

679
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,600
then one of the biggest concerns
were that if it. 

680
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,400
Okay, I have here, one in, 
Western, in my portfolio. 

681
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,600
I wender a dad. 
Like to purchase one or two. 

682
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,100
All right. 
I'd like to acquire winter. 

683
00:42:40,500 --> 00:42:43,200
A be a to vendor. 
B is why I have a, I want to 

684
00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:45,800
eat. 
But unfortunately, my render a 

685
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,400
Builds on Soft that and went to 
be built in China. 

686
00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:52,900
Travel, for instance, in this 
area is extremely complex. 

687
00:42:53,300 --> 00:42:57,100
This is not a big issue anymore 
because you say, okay, these are

688
00:42:57,100 --> 00:43:02,200
services that runs a, the cloud 
to communicate where IP is, who 

689
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:06,200
cares about the other pod. 
That's very long as you can 

690
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:13,200
maintain as, but there's also 
the I feel like we need to for 

691
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,300
the I am practitioners out 
there. 

692
00:43:16,300 --> 00:43:18,600
Yes. 
Everything you said is true, but

693
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,500
I also think that we we can't 
fall into the Trap of thinking 

694
00:43:22,700 --> 00:43:24,700
because we put something in the 
cloud. 

695
00:43:24,900 --> 00:43:29,400
We've absolve themselves of the 
responsibility for being secure 

696
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,900
because I think ultimately the 
buck still stops on our plate. 

697
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,900
Your foot do a one of your your 
podcast to that. 

698
00:43:36,900 --> 00:43:41,800
It was my colleague, Mike, small
and talk with him about tenant 

699
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,200
and provide a responsibility and
all these things. 

700
00:43:44,700 --> 00:43:46,000
I'd love to. 
I'd love to. 

701
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:47,700
I think there would be A great 
topic. 

702
00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:53,100
Martin I don't want to not get 
through our full list here and 

703
00:43:53,100 --> 00:43:56,800
so what I'm going to propose is 
that we do a lightning round. 

704
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,500
Now I'm going to throw a topic 
out there and then, you know, 

705
00:43:59,500 --> 00:44:03,800
take 60 seconds to two minutes 
to kind of give your thoughts on

706
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,300
each one. 
So one of the topics that's been

707
00:44:06,300 --> 00:44:11,100
really hot and it feels like we 
have unanimous opinion that this

708
00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:14,400
is good. 
Great for the industry is Fido 

709
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,900
to you know, passkeys web. 
Fan excetera. 

710
00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:20,400
What are your thoughts? 
Yeah. 

711
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,800
So I think path keys are just 
making things more convenient 

712
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:25,200
for users. 
That's good. 

713
00:44:25,900 --> 00:44:29,600
I think that it's erupted too. 
Disruptive thing is really 

714
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:35,600
webathon, because web Austin 
means that you go from the user 

715
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,000
and the device directly to the 
service. 

716
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,300
You don't go through access 
management system. 

717
00:44:40,300 --> 00:44:42,800
You don't go through gateways 
anymore, at least not 

718
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,100
necessarily you stood 
potentially could use them, that

719
00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:49,600
means but But that that you have
potentially a couple of 

720
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,700
applications that are excess 
directly and so you need to 

721
00:44:53,700 --> 00:44:57,400
rethink the way how you manage 
access and control access across

722
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,400
these applications where again 
policy based Access Control 

723
00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:04,100
definitely would help that that 
we also have our options. 

724
00:45:04,100 --> 00:45:08,200
But you this this will change a 
lot in the way we interact to 

725
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,900
applications and which 
components we use for work or 

726
00:45:12,900 --> 00:45:14,300
need for what? 
In our? 

727
00:45:14,300 --> 00:45:17,400
I am infrastructure. 
So this has a A disruptive 

728
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,700
potential. 
Great second one it wouldn't be 

729
00:45:20,700 --> 00:45:22,000
an. 
I am discussion. 

730
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,200
We didn't bring this up 
generative AI. 

731
00:45:26,700 --> 00:45:30,100
I've seen cool things really 
cool things there. 

732
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,800
We I think we are all aware of 
the risks that are in there. 

733
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,000
There are things that are 
definitely over high and you 

734
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:48,200
know, imagine everyone trusts 
would use trap GPT for creating 

735
00:45:48,500 --> 00:45:51,800
output. 
Then there would be nothing new 

736
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:56,500
anymore, so to speak at a 
certain point, you know, if it 

737
00:45:56,500 --> 00:45:58,100
would become a self-contained 
system. 

738
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,900
So there are limits there are 
risks. 

739
00:46:00,900 --> 00:46:02,300
We should be aware on the other 
hand. 

740
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,400
They are really extremely smart 
Solutions. 

741
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,800
I've seen based on generative. 
A I specifically, when you 

742
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,400
combine that with for instance 
log data in security analytics 

743
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,700
etcetera. 
So that just conversational but 

744
00:46:16,900 --> 00:46:22,100
really bringing together a Lot 
of information, then this is 

745
00:46:22,900 --> 00:46:25,800
something which is very helpful.
I believe that, for instance, 

746
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,200
the way we are and already 
starting it's the way we are 

747
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,100
using search engines change 
fundamentally. 

748
00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:40,300
So the typical prompt we used as
you can, whatever, one year, two

749
00:46:40,300 --> 00:46:43,400
years, three years. 
Maybe we won't see it anymore. 

750
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,200
Yeah, I think, you know, I've 
used the generative AI, the chat

751
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,800
GPT a few times. 
I say, you know, write me a 

752
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:56,800
summary of something and it 
seems to take that something and

753
00:46:56,900 --> 00:47:01,500
form it into a really good 
search gets the data back and 

754
00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:05,400
then forms it has pros and like 
this pretty cool. 

755
00:47:05,700 --> 00:47:09,500
I don't know that this part is 
revolutionary but I've also seen

756
00:47:09,500 --> 00:47:14,500
demos of where entire legal 
documents at least you know, if 

757
00:47:14,500 --> 00:47:17,800
you took the 80/20 rule of, I'm 
a lawyer, I need to create this 

758
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,000
document. 
I put it in a report. 

759
00:47:20,100 --> 00:47:24,800
Request for a document, it spits
out 80%. 

760
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,200
Now I just have to edit and do 
20%. 

761
00:47:27,300 --> 00:47:30,200
I've made myself potentially 
much more productive. 

762
00:47:30,700 --> 00:47:34,500
Yeah, that's I think that's what
we should should understand. 

763
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:37,800
It has a potential for making us
more productive. 

764
00:47:38,100 --> 00:47:40,500
Making up. 
If you use it the right way, it 

765
00:47:40,500 --> 00:47:43,800
will be a journey as usual. 
Okay, next one. 

766
00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:46,700
All right, last one 
orchestration. 

767
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,400
Yeah, cool thing we see. 
So many good orchestration 

768
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,700
Solutions, nowadays. 
How's it going Beyond? 

769
00:47:54,100 --> 00:47:58,000
Sort of certain use cases into 
really more generic solution. 

770
00:47:58,500 --> 00:48:02,300
The one thing I own, I'd like to
bring up here is what? 

771
00:48:02,300 --> 00:48:03,800
Let me use. 
All these are consideration 

772
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,800
tools. 
What about, for instance 

773
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:11,100
staging? 
So development test production, 

774
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,600
which is still needed. 
What about code? 

775
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:20,600
Versioning coding quotas. 
What about documentation? 

776
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:25,800
You know, I started with very 
traditional programming 

777
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,500
languages and I used I learned 
that we need to commend every 

778
00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:32,100
line of code more or less or 
every section of code at least. 

779
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:40,700
So a lot of things that are 
essential for for development 

780
00:48:40,700 --> 00:48:45,100
and at the end, its development 
frequently are lacking in the 

781
00:48:45,100 --> 00:48:48,600
orchestration tools. 
This is what when just must fix.

782
00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:52,500
We need to because otherwise you
know, imagine you using the 

783
00:48:52,700 --> 00:48:57,800
solution which is orchestration 
tools for a decayed or so and a 

784
00:48:57,808 --> 00:49:00,700
lot of people have changed who's
able to maintain it. 

785
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,800
So I want to shift gears a 
little bit and I want to 

786
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,800
understand more about what's 
coming up for Cooper. 

787
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,600
Nicole, do you have any more 
conferences on the horizon? 

788
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,700
Anything else this year? 
Or are we looking at next year? 

789
00:49:15,100 --> 00:49:20,200
So we are currently working on 
launching a Cybersecurity to 

790
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:24,300
arrange more cyber security 
conference, in November of a 

791
00:49:24,300 --> 00:49:28,500
shorter run, in mid-november in 
Frankfurt, which we call cyber 

792
00:49:28,500 --> 00:49:32,200
Evolution. 
So, the are could be revolution 

793
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,700
or LPS revenue for in cyber and 
evolution. 

794
00:49:36,500 --> 00:49:40,500
When we look at different 
aspects of whereas, evolving. 

795
00:49:42,300 --> 00:49:46,100
Also truly a bit, the impact are
the intersection between 

796
00:49:46,100 --> 00:49:49,700
identity and cyber security. 
But also, So surely the impact 

797
00:49:49,700 --> 00:49:52,800
of a I will fiber security but 
also that positively and 

798
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:57,000
negatively but also some of the 
more down-to-earth subject. 

799
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:01,100
So this is thing and then surely
next year in I think next year 

800
00:50:01,100 --> 00:50:04,600
or early June due to all the 
public holidays we have. 

801
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,200
And in May and tronie, early 
June European identity 

802
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:13,000
conference again and Berlin. 
Definitely did the away. 

803
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,900
You want to miss and up to miss.
You should be there. 

804
00:50:17,300 --> 00:50:22,100
So first we'd love to You know, 
I mentioned a few of the 

805
00:50:22,100 --> 00:50:25,300
leadership compasses that have 
come out recently, they 

806
00:50:25,300 --> 00:50:30,300
privileged access management. 
The IGA leadership Compass. 

807
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,500
What else has been published 
recently or is coming out soon? 

808
00:50:34,700 --> 00:50:38,100
That's how I talked about the 
application risk or Access 

809
00:50:38,100 --> 00:50:40,400
Control tools leadership come 
boxes. 

810
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,000
Which I have been working on 
which are currently, in fact 

811
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:49,100
Jack. 
So when the review and We have 

812
00:50:49,100 --> 00:50:54,400
one on software supply chain 
security which just our work in 

813
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:58,300
progress attack surface 
management will be one of the 

814
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,200
other a couple more. 
We would definitely cover some 

815
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,800
of the upcoming topics, like at 
end, this threat detection 

816
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:09,700
response, which probably will be
that out in 2024 because the 

817
00:51:09,700 --> 00:51:11,900
true leadership combat takes 
takes its time. 

818
00:51:13,500 --> 00:51:17,400
I'm currently working on email 
security topic that I have to 

819
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,200
say really came back. 
Some way. 

820
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,800
So which is, which is a very 
important subject. 

821
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:27,000
So many, many different topics 
across identity and cyber 

822
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,700
security. 
So, you guys do the leadership 

823
00:51:29,700 --> 00:51:32,500
Compass? 
What other types of reports you 

824
00:51:32,500 --> 00:51:34,800
publish? 
That's what we have. 

825
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,300
We have to execute, give you, 
which is really product-focused 

826
00:51:38,300 --> 00:51:40,100
thing. 
We do leadership, brief and 

827
00:51:40,100 --> 00:51:44,300
advisory notes sometimes, which 
already more conceptual, we have

828
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,500
a platform Casey open select, 
which is growing. 

829
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:52,700
Are we where customers can sort 
of use information? 

830
00:51:52,700 --> 00:51:55,400
We have from leader to composite
cetera, to come up. 

831
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,000
With a short list of products, 
they want to look at have a 

832
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:03,000
closer look at which is read 
online tool to support tools 

833
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:07,900
choice. 
And so these are some of the 

834
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:09,300
format's. 
We are doing video. 

835
00:52:09,300 --> 00:52:13,300
Also writing a couple of white 
papers together with vendors and

836
00:52:13,300 --> 00:52:17,000
stuff like it. 
Well, I knew you guys best for 

837
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:18,500
the leadership Compass. 
Probably all laugh. 

838
00:52:18,700 --> 00:52:23,000
For our listeners to as well. 
What is this secret to writing? 

839
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:27,100
A good leadership Compass. 
If you hire somebody new to 

840
00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:29,200
write one, what do you tell 
them? 

841
00:52:29,700 --> 00:52:33,500
What advice to give them. 
Yeah, so when I, when someone 

842
00:52:33,500 --> 00:52:36,700
you starts with the leader to 
combust L, then we work with a 

843
00:52:36,707 --> 00:52:40,400
very close mentorship, so across
the entire process. 

844
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:45,100
So that is always something 
where experience analyst is 

845
00:52:45,100 --> 00:52:49,800
guiding a new analyst. 
What is most important? 

846
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,400
I think most important is, I 
would say at the end or what 

847
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:57,100
have really thorough and lasses.
So, really got through a lot of 

848
00:52:57,100 --> 00:52:59,000
data. 
We have this question as we do 

849
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,400
the briefings to cetera but also
sort of a critical mind. 

850
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:10,200
So how do we rate or vendors? 
Tell us and what do I unders 

851
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:15,400
ride the questionnaire ecetera. 
I think this is this together is

852
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,800
to secret of ethical. 
And that's right, we have in our

853
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,300
leadership Composites that we 
have multiple dimensions of a 

854
00:53:21,300 --> 00:53:25,100
look at market and product and 
way, should leaders and combined

855
00:53:25,100 --> 00:53:28,500
leadership and that have 
spiders, which go more into 

856
00:53:28,500 --> 00:53:32,000
detail. 
So we take really different, 

857
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:36,200
different perspectives, which I 
believe is very healthy for the 

858
00:53:37,100 --> 00:53:40,900
customer as well. 
I like the breath of the 

859
00:53:40,900 --> 00:53:45,500
leadership compass that the 
number of vendor solutions that 

860
00:53:45,500 --> 00:53:50,200
get looked at and analyzed and I
can imagine the amount of data 

861
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:54,000
that gets crunched to come up 
with a 50-page report. 

862
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:58,200
So what you must start with, to 
get down to 50 pages, must be 

863
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:02,700
immense, Martin. 
You've been super, super 

864
00:54:02,700 --> 00:54:06,700
generous with your time today. 
And what I'd like to do now is 

865
00:54:06,700 --> 00:54:11,800
to try to do our normal Cadence 
of ending on a lighter note. 

866
00:54:12,300 --> 00:54:15,800
And one thing I know about you 
is that you seem to use your 

867
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,900
social media. 
I follow you on LinkedIn, use 

868
00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:20,900
your social media, very 
effectively. 

869
00:54:21,300 --> 00:54:23,600
I was wondering if you could 
share with our listeners, your 

870
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,900
strategy for using your social 
media. 

871
00:54:26,500 --> 00:54:31,900
Yeah, so so first, I concentrate
on LinkedIn because I think fall

872
00:54:31,900 --> 00:54:37,800
from my domain or unidentifiable
Securities is the most relevant 

873
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,700
one. 
So I don't spend time on other 

874
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:47,600
social media channels. 
I think that that is part of the

875
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,200
secret. 
And then I've learned as a very,

876
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,100
very good social media manager, 
Marina. 

877
00:54:53,900 --> 00:54:57,200
And she gave me a lot of his 
wives and so I'm currently 

878
00:54:57,700 --> 00:55:00,800
working. 
So, I had a gap for a bit of a 

879
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,600
plan, B, being on vacation but 
currently preparing a couple of 

880
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:09,200
Articles and posts on different 
subjects, also to become a bit 

881
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,900
more continuous and what I'm 
covering them. 

882
00:55:12,900 --> 00:55:15,000
Surely us rib. 
Flying back to comments to 

883
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:20,300
questions Etc. 
And so, I think this is 

884
00:55:20,300 --> 00:55:24,700
basically there's not much sort 
of rocket science in that. 

885
00:55:25,500 --> 00:55:29,900
It is really I think sharing 
enough of your salt and I was 

886
00:55:29,900 --> 00:55:34,400
asking for feedback asked, if 
he'd love what they think about 

887
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,000
it, this usually tends to 
trigger more discussion than and

888
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,200
in the comments section cetera 
and this makes it more 

889
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,400
Interactive. 
So just the way I use it. 

890
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,200
Yeah and I think it's a very 
conscious approach. 

891
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:49,400
I try to be conscious as well 
because I realized that 

892
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,500
sometimes you if you like a 
message or you comment on a 

893
00:55:53,500 --> 00:55:57,400
message it it's going to 
potentially end up on somebody's

894
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,900
feed and you don't want to waste
their time by liking somebody's 

895
00:56:00,900 --> 00:56:04,700
like, you know potential like a 
graduation picture of their kid.

896
00:56:04,700 --> 00:56:07,800
Nothing wrong with talking about
the graduation of your kid. 

897
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,300
I think that's a great life 
moment. 

898
00:56:10,300 --> 00:56:13,400
That probably is more face. 
Exam for LinkedIn, right? 

899
00:56:13,700 --> 00:56:17,800
So but it's a balance. 
I also want to like that picture

900
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,200
because I like that person and 
I'm happy for them that they've 

901
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,400
reached that Milestone. 
So I think that's a big part of 

902
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:29,400
it is, you know, for me is 
making sure that things that I 

903
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:33,600
potentially put out. 
There are relevant to the folks 

904
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:37,000
that I'm connected with. 
So that I'm not taking space on 

905
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,000
their feet with things that they
don't care about people, they 

906
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:45,100
don't know, I This is a good 
approach just kind of final 

907
00:56:45,100 --> 00:56:48,200
thoughts and takeaways that you 
might have for everyone. 

908
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,400
Yeah, I think we touched so many
topics and I think that the most

909
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:56,100
important thing is probably this
all this Innovation happening to

910
00:56:56,900 --> 00:56:59,900
to look at the positive 
potential. 

911
00:56:59,900 --> 00:57:03,000
So not being scared by all, this
is changing, this is changing. 

912
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,300
But speaking about, how can this
help? 

913
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:09,100
In what I'm doing, potentially 
even without breaking 

914
00:57:09,100 --> 00:57:12,900
everything, because a lot of 
this Innovative stuff really 

915
00:57:12,900 --> 00:57:18,200
adds, instead of breaks the 
things likely to rise identity 

916
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:19,900
with touch this. 
And this is, I think, the way of

917
00:57:19,900 --> 00:57:24,800
thinking we should take looking 
at the potential but not in fear

918
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:28,200
of, oh, this will break 
everything because it will not, 

919
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,400
it will help us to evolve 
identity management or digital 

920
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,700
Identity or maybe from identity 
management to digital identity. 

921
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:39,700
Absolutely. 
Thank you Martin, for all of our

922
00:57:39,700 --> 00:57:43,000
listeners, you can visit the 
show on the web at idac 

923
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:47,800
podcast.com. 
I'm follow us at at IDC podcast 

924
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:53,400
on Twitter, we also have a 
mastodon setup which is at idac 

925
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:58,000
podcast at info dot X Change and
you can connect with us on 

926
00:57:58,000 --> 00:57:59,700
LinkedIn. 
Thank you everyone. 

927
00:57:59,700 --> 00:58:01,200
And we'll talk to you on the 
next one. 

928
00:58:01,700 --> 00:58:05,800
Thank you, Tim for inviting me. 
You've been listening to 

929
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:09,800
Identity at the center. 
We hope you've enjoyed the show,

930
00:58:09,900 --> 00:58:14,200
make sure to like rate and 
review and we'll be back soon, 

931
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:17,700
but in the meantime, hit the 
website at identity at the 

932
00:58:17,700 --> 00:58:23,800
center.com and find us on 
Twitter at ivac podcast. 

933
00:58:24,100 --> 00:58:28,200
See you next time on identity at
the center,