Right in front of me. Dead in front of me.
Yeah, between me and the structure.
Because the structure was maybe like 7 feet in front of me when
I took a step or two and something blasted me with sound.
And yeah, it was big and it was close, but I couldn't see it.
Yes, and many children see them too.
About 75% of the world's children today are being born
with etheric vision. And when your children talk with
people and have Daydream playmates, the chances are
they're actually speaking to some of these people because
these angels or angelic forces or nature spirits as they're
often called, will often make themselves seen.
The color just drains from her face and.
I'm I'm kind of stumped because I could tell that something is
truly shocking her right now but I have no idea what.
The deer in headlights kind of turned into almost like a panic
and I said I've never seen a butterfly like you before.
I know that the paranormal is real.
Listen. As soon as I spoke to it, it
turns around and makes eye contact with me and then it
stands upright. And then it was at that moment
that I saw it was like an orange light appear of this row of
trees then from. This orange light, this thing
appeared, it's wings were actually like.
Sycamore leaf shaped. And I started talking to them.
I'm like, hi, are y'all the dwarfs?
And I would hear whispers that would say hi.
Yeah. You want to play?
And it wasn't just my imagination.
And I had told them, I'm like my dwarfs.
They like beer, you know? And my dad's like, yeah, sure,
your dwarfs like beer. And they were holding a
conversation. And his beer slid upwards
instead of downwards. How the house was tilted and him
and my brothers jumped off. So I stopped calling out Adam
and I'm just kind of, my mind draws a blank and I stopped
behind that tree stump. I'm pretty close to it now
because I took a few steps forward and I see this thing,
thing, thing. Thin, thin, thin.
Welcome everybody tonight to Fascinating Fit.
Tonight we're travelling to Pennsylvania to talk with
Katrina. Katrina, how are things going in
Pennsylvania tonight? Really exciting.
I'm looking forward to telling you about some of those things.
I'm super excited to have you on the line tonight.
Thanks so much for calling in Katrina.
What I like to do at the start of every show is I will spend
about one minute right now, if it's OK with you, kind of just
giving you the the bumpers on the bowling alley for how I do
things. That sounds great.
Cool. Thanks for that opportunity.
The first thing that I like to make sure everyone understands,
and that's for you and for anyone dropping in here the
first time, because you never know who's who's dropping by.
The emphasis in the show is not about convincing me of anything
or convincing anybody of anything for that matter.
I believe you. And because I've been initiated
into the strange nature of reality, I know that these
events can sometimes defy explanation.
And so you know that having that emphasis to convince detracts
from really getting into the details of the story a lot of
the time. So just know that you're in
friendly company and it's not a gotcha moment kind of show.
Thank you. The other thing to say is it's
brave to come on the show. I mean, talking about paranormal
subject matter, talking about encounters with cryptids,
talking about ghosts, fairies, all this stuff can bring with it
a type of stigma. And you know, I do keep everyone
anonymous who comes on the show, but nonwithstanding, it's still
nerve racking to do it. And I've like, you know, told my
story a number of times in a public or more public setting.
So I know it takes bravery to come on the show, and I just
want to acknowledge that and thank you for that right here at
the top of the. OK, I I don't feel like it takes
much courage. I feel like it's becoming more
mainstream to talk about these things and that we all need to
share our experiences so that when something unusual happens
to somebody, like you were sharing with me before our
interview, they need to be able to find that somebody else has
experienced that too. That's a huge part of why I do
this show. And that was spoken like a true
brave person. Well done.
The final thing I say at the start of the show is for, you
know, maximum comfort for the guest.
I like to just sort of kick back and let you have a lot of time
and space. I'm interested in most aspects
of what has occurred up to and including who I'm talking to.
So feel free to ease myself and the audience into things like
let me know what kind of interest you might have had in
the subject matter that you're about to delve into beforehand.
Tell me a little bit about yourself, that sort of stuff.
And then just as you feel comfortable, you know, what were
you doing that day? And, and walk us into the event
when you're done. I'll ask questions, you know,
when you're naturally finished your storytelling.
I'll not leave you hanging there at all, you know, and, and we'll
pretty much take it from there, which, you know, makes, makes it
the format of the show. Sounds great.
It's funny, it's been a couple months since I've laid down new
episodes, and I recognize I was a little rusty on the handoff
there, but we'll do it. We'll do our best.
No, it sounds great. Well, thanks for that, that
grace, as I fumble with a unusual, you know, fumble to
hand off to the guest. Usually I'm pretty good at this
part. What I'll say here is this is if
you'd be so kind and you can sort of walk us into that, that
would be really greatly appreciated.
Sure. So first of all, I thank you for
having me on your show. I've listened to some of your
other interviews and I can tell that you're a safe place to
share some of the stories I'd like to talk about today.
And like we were talking about before the interview, I love
that you're providing a place for people to come when they've
had an unusual experience and to hear the others have also
experienced something. Because it does change you when
something that you can't explain occurs.
And it's comforting to know the other people have thought that
too. So that being said, I grew up in
the 1970s in New Jersey. And at that time there were some
Bigfoot sightings that were being reported in the
newspapers. And it was when they just
started using that term Bigfoot. And my dad was kind of
interested in things like this. And he would, he would clip out
the articles and read them to me.
And we were in the woods a lot. And he would tease me when we
were in the woods. Oh, watch out.
Bigfoot might be over that way, you know?
Oh, do you smell any rotten eggs?
And it was always kind of a game between us.
But I think we both believed. Does that make sense?
It does make sense. So Fast forward through many
decades. I had a very unusual experience
last weekend that I do want to tell you about that I do think
involved Bigfoot. But before I get into that,
would it be OK if I told you about an experience that I also
think was Bigfoot related a few years ago, also in Pennsylvania?
Yeah, starting back chronologically is a great way
to approach it. Please do that.
That would be great. And then if we have time and if
you feel like your listeners would still be interested, I was
living in Key West, FL for a few years and I gave ghost tours and
I had some very unusual paranormal activity inside a
certain building in Key West. And I also lived in a house
where I believe the original owner was still very much
present and performed some poltergeist activity.
So prompt me at the end if you still want to hear those
stories, OK? Oh, we're going to make time for
all of that tonight. I'm locked in.
No rush at all. Well, you're being very
generous. Thank you so much.
So, as I said, I lived in Key West, and I decided to come back
to Pennsylvania after I was there a few years, but I needed
some transitional housing because I just wasn't sure
exactly what town I wanted to come back to.
My family's not here except for my adult children, so it wasn't
like I had a family home to go back to.
I had to find my own apartment so I stayed at an Airbnb in
Lancaster County and it was a beautiful property.
It was built about 15 years ago. It's a 3500 square foot home and
it's built right below a ridgeline that goes up a hill
about a mile and also itself to 700 feet up off road, straight
up a hill. And there are two homes between
it and the road. So pretty secluded and 10 acres
of woods are behind it. So I, I fell in love with it
because I love the woods. And I stayed for a couple months
and started looking for an apartment And there were some
other people lodging there as well long term.
And the woman that owned it, kind of my grandmother would
have called her a tough cookie. You know, she was kind of kind
of a cranky older woman and I, I don't know, I never felt it at
peace inside the house. And I always thought it was sort
of her demeanour that kept it from being a peaceful
environment. And she, she left for Florida
for two months. The last two months I was there
and there were still other people there and I felt
comfortable. I felt safe.
I liked going out, you know, outside and enjoying a little
bit of the woods and so forth. And then those two people left,
and I was alone in this rather secluded, really large home.
And I started to feel like I was being watched.
And I couldn't imagine who would be all the way back in that
area. And it was January.
So it's not like people, you know, like some homeless person
or somebody was lurking around the house looking in windows and
the main, the way the house was built, you know, the main level
was up off the ground. So anything watching me would
have been really big and tall. And, you know, I just, I just
chalked it up to being nervous about being alone in a big home.
And one night I had, you know, I was woken up out of a dead sleep
because something banged on the on the House on the other side
of where my bed was. And this is an enormous house,
very solidly built, not like a cabin in the woods.
So for something to bang on the side of the house loud enough to
wake me up out of a dead sleep, I don't even know what that
would be. So I was kind of on edge.
And the next day I noticed that when the sun went down, the, the
hair on my arms was up, the hair on the back of my neck was up.
And I'm like, what am I reacting to?
So I'm a Christian woman, you know, I started praying
throughout the house. I put on praise and worship
music on the TV's around the house, and I put on some extra
lights. And then I called some friends
and I said, would you pray for me?
I'm alone in this house tonight, and I don't feel safe.
And the more I prayed and the more I was prayed for, the more
afraid I became. And that doesn't really make
sense, right? I, I got through the night and I
just felt very uncomfortable the next day.
So the woman that had left her daughter, who was in her 40s and
had grown up on the property, she lived nearby.
And she was kind of, you know, looking in as a caretaker.
And I called her on the phone and I said, does your mother
have any enemies? Because I feel like there's
somebody are hanging around this house at night watching me, and
I don't feel safe. I feel afraid.
And I'm not a fearful person, not at all.
And the woods are my comfort zone.
So this house that backs up to the woods, I shouldn't feel
afraid at all. And the daughter was there with
her husband on the other end of the phone, and she's talking to
me a little bit. And I hear him saying something
in the background and she's shushing him.
And then I hear him say, tell her about the Yeti.
I said, did he just say Yeti? And she said, yeah.
She said when I grew up, we didn't have the house on the
property yet. We were living in a trailer
until we built the house. And she said 30 years earlier,
when she was 10 years old, she had been sleeping outside on the
front deck with her brother and woke up in the middle of the
night and there was a Bigfoot standing over them.
And they ran into the house and they talked about it in the
morning and then didn't talk about it for a very long time.
So she said, I was just figured that there's one lurking around
somewhere, but I never thought to tell anybody.
And I said, well, believe it or not, that's kind of what I was
thinking might be bothering me. So the next night was worse and
I knew I couldn't stay anymore so I moved out the next day.
So interesting. So it it's interesting too, just
the way that you describe the houses billed as being up and
off. I do believe that human beings
inherently possess the ability to know when they're being
washed. I think that's a real skill set
we possess, yes. And I think each of us
distinctly knows that feeling. And here's the thing, I went out
the next morning looking for evidence.
I'm like, something kept me up half the night, scared to death
it. I'm not a fearful person.
Nothing like this had ever happened to me before.
I did see something that could have been a footprint underneath
the window. I'll never know for sure because
it wasn't firmly outlined. And there's still that part of
my mind that says, oh, you know, I was stepping around that area
feed, you know, adding food to the bird feeder that's right
there. You know, my foot could have
slipped. So you know the mind wants to
fill in things and make them logical.
What do you make of the? What do you make of the feeling
of fear increasing as you were getting engagement on prayer?
I'm curious. Yeah, I'm really, I'm really
glad that you asked me about that.
My sense at the time and in talking with some of my friends
sense is that something was feeding off of my fear.
It's interesting. Do you think that that and not
that you know, but do you think that that would be the one in
the same that was causing the fear?
Yeah, yeah. I think I was a victim of
infrasound. I think I was being pushed from
the house, and I don't know if it was Bigfoot, but I think
there was some kind of entity, maybe even something demonic
that wanted me out of that house for some reason.
And maybe while there were other people in the house, I didn't
feel it. But when I was alone and more
attuned, real hypersensitive, but whatever, whatever was was
hanging around wanted me out was how I felt.
So I actually called the lay on door at 10:30 at night and said
I'm feeling really uncomfortable in the house tonight and I'm
afraid I don't have a car right now and your truck is in the
garage. Can I just use your pick up and
and just drive down the road and stay at a hotel?
And she said no. She said I took the insurance
off the truck when I came down to Florida for the winter.
So no. And I regret to this day that I
even called and asked for permission.
I think I should have just taken the truck.
Yeah, in life, sometimes asking forgiveness is better than
asking for permission. Truly.
But who knows what would have happened if I had, you know,
opened that garage door and pulled the truck out?
I mean, would there have been something in the big driveway
that would have wanted to hurt me?
I mean, I, I don't know, there was such a war going on within
myself. Should I stay in the house or
should I, should I leave? And just to give you an idea of
how afraid I was, I hold myself up in my my room that I was
renting and move the dresser in front of the door.
And I, I pulled the shades and I put myself in the corner with
the Bible on my lap. And I just figured, well, if
anything can get in the house, they're going to have to get
through that dresser and I'm going to be climbing out the
window before that happens. A lot is coming up for me as I
listen to you. You know, one of the privileges,
I guess, that I'm allowed listening to so many people is I
feel like I get a really good sense for people when I listen
to them the way that I do. You don't strike me as a person
who is afraid of anything. I just don't pick that up from
you. No, I'm not.
I'm a journalist by trade and I write about City Hall and I
write about corruption and crime and I've been a police reporter.
I've been in some really dicey situations and nothing throws
me. This scared the shit out of me.
You absolutely remind me of somebody I know who used to be a
mortician and coroner. With the ability to just say
like, yeah, that doesn't bother me.
I can look at that and be in the presence of that.
And it's not that I have no emotions or anything, it's just
that I'm able to handle it. Nope, I'm the same way.
Voices are so interesting. I could almost do a separate
show on voices because I feel like a person's personality is
very reflected in in voice, Almost like you could say like
if you looked at a bunch of pictures and you say these two
people look alike, there is absolutely sound alike voices
that match like personalities very, very closely.
And I'll just leave that hanging out there in the air for further
speculation on another show, but.
So I want to touch on something else that you had said leading
up to the interview, and I had touched on a little bit was that
people, when they have something unusual happen, want to know
that other people did, too. I caught the Bigfoot Research
Society in Pennsylvania while all this was going on.
And I'm like, could there be a Bigfoot?
Could that be what I'm experiencing?
Because I was trying to make sense of it.
And I was going back to all those stories my dad read me,
and I'd always been curious. And they're like, well, who
knows? I mean, it could be, are you
alone? And I'm like, yeah, I'm alone.
Can they get in the house? Yeah, they can get in the house.
And I'm like, oh, that's not good.
And I'm trying to actually visualize if something as big as
a Bigfoot could fit in the doorways.
That was why I barricaded myself in the bedroom.
But in the course of that, I spoke to Timothy Renner in York,
PA, who's written 20 different books on the paranormal in in
Lancaster County and the surrounding areas and started
learning more about what other people had experienced.
And he's like, yeah, that sounds like it could have been a
Bigfoot. So that's why I'm happy to share
my story because I can't say for sure that that's what it was.
But I know something really strange happened.
And that way, if other people are listening and they've had
something strange happen, they know they're not alone.
Truly, truly fascinating. I keep coming back to that
increasing sense of fear as you were looking for spiritual
support and just doing other things to kind of, you know,
alleviate your tension. Well, I think that I think that
it was inflaming whatever was surrounding me.
I that's why I think there was something demonic going on
because I've actually witnessed on three different occasions
somebody releasing A demonic spirit out of themselves.
I belong to a Pentecostal church and been a part of the prayer
team praying over somebody when a demonic entity came out of
them. And you have to pray a certain
way, and you know, the prayer has to be bigger than the
demonic. And I had 100 people praying for
me. I had tapped into a prayer line
online. So I don't know, maybe it wasn't
big enough to cast out whatever was around me.
But again, I felt like something was feeding off of me, so maybe
it was interfering with me as well.
I don't know if that's making sense.
I'm just saying what I've experienced.
That makes perfect sense. You're fascinating to talk to
you because there's often, I think, a hold on, Let me just
collect my thoughts 'cause I want to say this correctly.
It's something I always wrestle with, this particular one.
Sometimes there's this like tendency to feel like a
Christian fundamental belief system is in direct opposition
to the allowance for the existence of things like
bigfoots or fairies or etcetera. I I I agree.
I and all I can say is I'm a spiritual person.
I love the Lord Jesus Christ. He is my Lord and Savior.
But I think it's my spiritual nature that allows me to have a
relationship with Jesus and to know the Holy Spirit and to also
pray over people and understand that they've got a demonic
entity and it's got to be released.
So it's the spiritual in this in May that allows for all of that.
I, I want to make sure that you don't misunderstand my statement
there, because I'm trying to offer a, a real compliment and
an acknowledgement of something that I always kind of have as a
pet peeve, which is I think that people discount religious types
in when it comes to paranormal subject matter.
Because there's kind of like this feeling like, oh, the
paranormal truths are the truths and everything else has been a
big lie keeping us from those truths.
I don't think they're they're separate at all.
I think that what you're talking about it mirrors what I actually
think the real structure of the world is, which is it's a it's a
both physical and spiritual plane in which the forces of
good and evil are constantly, Yep, in battle.
Yep, I I agree. I think my minister would too.
I mean, he's real open minded, you know?
And for that matter, I mean, probably part of the problem is
that in certain sections of Christian faith, there's a
tendency to say if it is not Jesus and God, you know, in and
of itself it's demonic. If it's anything outside of
that, it's a false idol, it's demonic.
It's and that may well be true. I think it's a little bit more
nuanced. I think that archetypal
spiritual powers like the Lord Jesus Christ are absolutely real
and may even have total dominion over all that is.
Let's hope. You know, let you know what, and
I allow for that with no prejudice whatsoever.
At the same time, it may be that it is a little bit more nuanced
and that in addition to creating human souls and animals and
plants and all other aspects of life as we know it, the Lord saw
it fit to create a class of entities that we are talking
about. Both good, you know, helpful
little entities that maybe are charged with supporting nature
or supporting parties, for example.
And at the same time, you know the the devil being allowed for
could also be responsible for an equal class of entities.
That's what I think is it's it's good versus evil.
So along those lines, here in Lancaster, PA, there's a very
large Amish population. And I did some research and I
came across some information in local Facebook chats about years
ago. I don't, I don't know how long.
Like let's go back 10 or 15 years maybe.
A few of the local Amish farms were having trouble with
something big with hands coming onto their farms and stealing
chickens and livestock. And there was a report from
somebody that, you know, had a relationship with, with these
people that had this one particular Amish farm.
They said the farmer came out and found his chickens gone with
only their heads left scattered around.
No blood, just chicken heads laying around and the chickens
themselves gone. And they saw footprints and
whatever word they use for Bigfoot, they indicated that
that's probably what it was. And they allowed the family that
owned that farm to relocate because whatever it was, they
didn't feel they could stop. But this is the important part.
The Amish refused to speak of it because they feel that Bigfoot
is a demon and if you speak of him, you will summon him.
A lot of people share that perspective.
Again, not to just breeze past it, but you're deeply
fascinating to talk to you outside of just the stories
'cause it's rare that I'll get an opportunity to talk to
somebody who's in possession of this nuanced mindset.
So you're, you're really cool. I appreciate you a lot.
OK. I really mean that actually, it
gives me a lot of opportunity to ask questions that I've been
wrestling with. Please.
So, OK, let's, I don't really have any more questions about
this initial one, but other than just to say again, your great
storytelling is affording a lot of introspection and
thoughtfulness here. So we're off to a great start.
That's the whole point of the show is to get everybody
thinking and not that I'm an expert or you're an expert.
So we're in safe company with one another.
No, we're all trying. We're all trying to figure it
out. Would you like to hear about
what happened last weekend? Yeah, so let's tie the two
Bigfoot stories together and then we'll jump around and go
back to this ghost tour stuff and anything else that seems
relevant so. It it all comes back to my
lifelong interest in and belief in Bigfoot.
It just always made sense to me that he was out there.
So Fast forward to last weekend. I was in Chester County,
Pennsylvania, about an hour from here, and while I was there I
remembered that there was a local park that I hadn't been to
in a number of years. And I love walking in the woods
and I never feel afraid. I'm usually by myself.
I've never had any bad experiences.
I carry Mace because I'm only afraid of two things in the
woods, crazy humans or crazy animals.
You know, like a rabid raccoon coming out of nowhere or some
crazy guy lurking behind a tree. So that's just sensible, right?
But I did go with a girlfriend this time because we were having
lunch together. And I said to her, the last time
I was at this park, I saw some really interesting structures.
And at the time, I thought they were lean TOS.
And I thought that they were built by maybe some Boy Scouts
coming in and, you know, doing something or camping.
But since I've started looking deeper into the Bigfoot
phenomenon, I was starting to wonder if maybe there's a
Bigfoot presence there. So she was open minded.
We used to go to church together.
I mean, she's got a, you know, very open mind.
So she said, well, I'll go with you.
This is a former farm that's been turned into a park.
It's 85 acres. And a Conservancy land group
bought it up, I don't know, maybe 20 years ago.
And you, if you want to sort of picture it, like I said, it's a
farm. If you're looking at it from a
bird's eye view and you break it into quadrants, 3 of the
quadrants are just big pastures and, and take up probably half
the acreage. And the Conservancy group has
mowed a path around the perimeter and then one path
diagonally across each of the pastures.
So they're big meadows. The woods are all the way at the
end and back up on one side to a housing development and on
another side there's a pipeline that runs through them down into
the state of Delaware. But once you're in the woods, I
mean, you're a mile from the parking lot and you're in some
dense woods. This is mature growth, big Beech
trees, you know, some saplings. But I mean, you know, there's
there's daylight coming through, but it's a dense set of woods.
And again, I felt quite at ease. And my friend that was with me,
she grew up in Connecticut. She played in the woods growing
up. She's like me, like this is the
place Forrest. So we were enjoying our walk.
And I don't know, we were probably walking 10 or 15
minutes before I did see a structure.
And I pointed it out to her. And I said, see, this is what I
was talking about. And what it was, was some of the
really young saplings that are starting to grow up this spring
had been brought together at the top in a circle about maybe 6
feet across. And it looked like an igloo.
It was that shape about that size.
And I pointed it out to my friend, and I said, see, I
really think that this was built by something with hands that had
a reason to create a little bit of shelter in the woods.
I mean, maybe it was a hiker, you know, just wanting to come
and sit under some tree branches.
I don't know, trying to make sense of it.
But we walked about another half mile and saw a very similar
structure. This one was bigger, about 8
feet in diameter and about 10 feet off the trail.
And she said to me, look at all the undergrowth.
It's all flat and down. It looks like somebody's been
sleeping there. And while she's talking to me,
I'm taking one step forward off the trail, closer to the
structure because I want to get a closer look.
And that is when something very big and very close to me
growled. And then it huffed.
So the sound was like it almost sounded like a bull.
And I took a step back right away and I looked at my friend.
I said did something just growl? And she said I don't, I don't
know. And that's when I realized I
felt it in my chest and the hair on my arms had gone up.
I said let's keep walking. So we walked a distance away and
I turned to her and I said, what was that?
She said I I don't know what I heard.
She said I felt something. I said, I know I did, too, she
said, but I was talking to you while you were moving forward,
and then you stopped. I said, yeah, because something
growled at me and made this huffing sound, and it was clear
that I was not meant to get any closer to that structure.
So I took a couple steps back. So we talked about it more on
the car. And she's not quite as open to
the idea of Bigfoot as I am, but I can't imagine what else it
would have been. Where did you feel the sound
coming from? Right in front of me.
Dead in front of me. Yeah, between me and the
structure. Can I offer you my take?
Absolutely. The Bigfoot thing.
So I do. I've talked about this maybe
once or twice on the show. It's not something I
traditionally put emphasis on because my, my focus here is on
collecting fairy stories. But I'm, I do think that that
Bigfoot is a type of fae in the sense that when I use the word
fae or fairy, I'm referring to a, not a, not a fantasy thing.
I'm referring first of all, to a real thing, much like Bigfoot
I'm referring to as a real thing.
This is not a fantasy thing. There's a huge distinction that
needs to be made between fantasy, which is, for example,
you know, stuff you see in movies like Lord of the Rings
and reality, which is in fact not much dissimilar to a Lord of
the Rings fantasy depiction, but is very real.
And so, you know, getting your head around the fact that the
world is kind of a, a place where spirit is animated and
does what it does, which is kind of what we're talking about,
these various manifestations of spirit, be it Bigfoot, be it,
you know, religious archetypes, fallen angels, you know, gods,
demons, whatever you want to call it.
There's so many different ways that throughout history, people
have tried to give names to these entity classes that are
not necessarily tangible, but are definitely real.
You know, so I've, I've seen a Bigfoot myself back in the
Pacific Northwest and I've talked, you know, about that in
a limited fashion. Because again, I'm not trying
to, I guess to complete my thought, having seen that
Bigfoot, having seen what I initially saw in 2019, having
seen some things here in Costa Rica subsequently, which is also
added to my Rolodex of visual sightings with what I feel are
these entity classes. I'm, I'm of the perspective that
Bigfoot is a type of fae because it it possesses many or all of
the characteristics that I also tangle with in the fairy
phenomenon. Being invisible is breaking
physics. That's not how physics work,
right? To our knowledge anyhow.
So when I told you about the fairy coming through the glass
that I saw, I mean, it's no different to me that task being
performed by the fairy I saw or Bigfoot being invisible, for
example, right? One entity might have one
particular trick up its sleeve, like going through objects,
which is fairies can definitely go through walls and definitely
take objects out of places and put objects back into places
that are secure. So that's that's a fairy skill.
For example, Bigfoot may well be much more rooted to Earth, but
may also have a type of skill that you know, involves being
able to not be seen. I think both of these things are
explainable with quantum physics.
I think that much like the European Robin has been recently
proven to be looking at the quantum entanglement of
electrons with its eye, which is previously thought to be
impossible, that a living Organism could perform a quantum
physics experiment inside its body.
Not only does the Robin pull it off, it's using it to see on
days where there's inclement weather and it does it
perfectly. So if if the lowly Robin can
like look at the quantum plane, see the action within the
quantum plane and use it to make real world decisions to its
benefit. It is not a huge leap for me
anyway to consider a entity that is alive like a human being or
like a Bigfoot being able to enact their quantum biology in a
way that produces perhaps invisibility.
Or in the case of humans, you know, you hear many stories of
these gurus of old teleporting themselves or levitating or
moving objects with their mind. Like all of this may fall under
the umbrella of a rational quantum phenomenon, the
explanation of which sort of starts at the idea of quantum
physics itself. And it's many tropes like spooky
action at a distance or, you know, quantum entanglement,
which is really just saying that like, stuff that is not
physically connected reacts to it one another at huge
distances. How is that possible?
And, you know, that idea is not intangible.
That's proven. A good example would be just
like sunlight hitting a plant leaf.
Not to get too far off the weeds here, we're still talking about
Bigfoot. We're still talking about
Bigfoot, but. You know the the the photon of
light is simultaneously existing in multiple positions at once
within the leaf, which is the only way that the speed of
photosynthesis is explainable. And so the idea of quantum super
positioning or a single thing being multiple places at once is
inherent in light. And light, you know, is the
source for basically everything taking place here, from our
vision down to all life itself. And that very substrate, that
very stuff, light itself is a quantum miracle.
So everything you know, that flows down from it possesses
that same quantum capability. And you could even go so far,
you know, to kind of dovetail really beautifully with what you
believe is to, is to see that that the, the sun itself is the
source of life and it was created And that's why it's
magical. And everything that you know,
lives under that sun is imbued with that magic.
So yes, I do think that Bigfoot can become invisible.
And the way that the one I saw moved was so fucking fast.
It was like on a on a railroad track.
It was ultra smooth, ultra fast, too fast for normal.
And I saw a fairy move in more or less the same way.
I call the movement like uncanny valley.
It's too smooth, too precise, too fast.
And I saw that, you know, 4 separate Times Now I've seen a
visual that I absolutely believe falls under the classification
of Faye. They all move that exact same
way. It's not quite jerky, but it is
a little bit jerky. And it's it's, but it's also at
the same time extremely precise and uncanny.
So that's my take anyway. That's a whole lot of blame for
me. You're the fascinating one at
the moment. You just got me thinking so much
because like, what I really want to ask is I want to just like
turf the Bigfoot stuff for a quick second.
Tell me about praying over people to release demons from
them as a Pentecostal practice. Like what?
What was? Tell me about one of them if
you're open to it. Yeah, absolutely.
About two years ago when I was still in Key West, FL, there was
a Bible study at church on a Wednesday night where the pastor
preaches, but it's it's it's more like he focuses on one
passage that he's teaching on. And just as he was wrapping up
and about to dismiss church, his daughter-in-law literally ran
into the church holding her cell phone and ran right up to the
altar and handed it to him, interrupted him and said, you
got to take this call. And I've been going to church
since I was born. I have never seen somebody rush
the altar and hand a phone to the minister saying you have to
take this call. Never happened.
And he looked a little taken aback, but he took the call and
he was saying some very interesting things.
What hospital? OK, Yes, we OK.
We will be there. And it was, it was clear that
something very significant had just happened.
He hung up the phone and he turned to the congregation.
It was a very small group that night.
There might have only been twenty of us.
And he said, there's a member of our church who's at the local
hospital. It's believed that she has a
demonic attachment. And I need one man and one woman
to go with me. And my hand shot up in the air.
I just knew I was supposed to go.
And then another gentleman went. And on the way to the hospital,
which was only about two miles away, the minister said that he
was praying while he was driving and asking the Lord to reveal to
him the name of the demon because he had learned doing
this previously, they have to call the demon out by name.
So he said, OK, I know what demon it is.
So we prayed together. We got to the hospital, we went
in and the man that knew pastor that had called him to say you
need to come see this girl, took us back.
And in one of the exam rooms was a teenager that I recognized
from church. She's about 16 or 17.
And she was looking a little scared, a little a little
uncertain. She knew us.
You know, I talked to her a few times.
I mean, obviously, you know, she knew the minister and, and maybe
the other gentleman. And, you know, we walked in and
the the medical personnel were kind of milling around.
They thought that she was having a psychiatric breakdown and they
were busy trying to get a room for her at the local psych
hospital, and pastor was having a much different idea about what
was really going on. So there were kind of brief
hellos and then he asked her, so what's going on?
And she just said that she had been brought to the hospital.
She really didn't seem clear on how she got there or what
happened. Her mother wasn't there.
She was there by herself. So we are kind of uncertain
about that. Like maybe they had had an
argument or something. And he asked her if she had
taken any drugs, if she had had anything to drink or if she had,
you know, smoked anything. And she said no, no.
So he said, well, we're going to pray for you.
And the gentleman that was with us was wearing a very large
cross and just as pastor put his hand on her shoulder and just
she looked directly at that cross and in a voice I've never
heard come out of a 16 or 17 year old girl, she screamed at
at the man and at pastor. And I don't want to say exactly
what she said. It was pretty awful.
But in a very deep voice, she said, FUUMF, first I'm going to
kill you both. And it wasn't her voice and it
wasn't her. Something in that instant had
completely taken her over. And that was when Pastor really
went into, you know, deep prayer with myself and the gentleman
praying over the situation. And he called the demon by name
and said, come out of that girl. He said, I dealt with you before
demon and another person, another place.
I didn't send you to the lake of fire.
I'm sending you to the lake of fire right now.
We're done. And by now, the girls on the
floor, she's thrashing around. We had the door closed, but the
medical personnel, we're starting to look in like, what's
going on in there? And then it stopped and we all
took a step back and realized something had been released.
It wasn't something you could say.
It was a feeling that the commotion was done.
And she sat up and she looked at us and we helped her up and we
sat around the exam table and she had no idea what had just
happened. It was like she came to and
Pastor started explaining to her that she had had a possession
and that he had released it. And about that time her mom
walked in and we had to explain to her mom.
So it turns out that they were originally from Haiti and they
were practicing voodoo in their home and it was Pastor since
that they had opened up something and that whatever came
through made itself at home and the girl and she was at church a
couple days later, right as range.
She's had no problems since I've been in touch with her mom.
That girl would have been in the psych hospital and she'll still
be in the psych hospital. So that's the story.
You're a great storyteller. Thank you.
Yeah, no, I really mean that, Katrina.
Somehow, as strange as it may sound at first pass
fundamentalist religious beliefs, Bigfoot, demonic
possessions, fairies, our true nature of our souls, all of this
is related subject matter in my opinion, because it all is
speaking to the unseen true nature of reality.
If a pastor is aware that a demon exists and is this
confident in the next steps to take, that's a high authority.
That's a high authority for the existence of that entity, right?
And if, if a demon can exist, then absolutely a fairy can
exist and absolutely a Bigfoot can exist.
It's all it's interesting, no? I think all of this is
interesting because we want to make sense of things that happen
that don't make any sense. So that's why we talk about it.
And I, I do want to be clear that with the demonic possession
that that I witnessed, you know, pastor was simply an agent of
change, right? He was, he was a, a conduit, You
know, he called on the Holy Spirit to, to pull that demon
out of that girl. It wasn't by his power.
So I want to be clear about that, that it wasn't a human
power that did that. And maybe now we're circling
back to good and evil. You know, good's got to overcome
evil. There was something evil taking
over this girl, but it was the good, It was the light that
pulled it out of her. Yeah, thank you for making that
distinction and my apologies if it's me that misspoke.
No, not at all. Truly did understand that He was
calling upon the Holy Spirit in that moment.
I just hadn't said it for your listeners.
You know what? It's a good distinction to make
for that reason. My observation just that he as
pastor, which is a trusted position in the community, you
know, having this be the course of action that he is determining
is correct, is in and of itself fascinating.
It was incredible. It was.
It was, it was incredible to
witness what happened. And the girl is now in college.
She's studying something in the medical field related.
I think she's studying dental hygiene or something like that.
But I mean, I'm just saying she's gone on with her life and
she's living like a normal 19 year old.
I sincerely do wonder, not just based on your story, but it has
occurred to me at other times to wonder how many people
experiencing mental illness are experiencing this type of thing.
I know. And you know what?
I sometimes wonder if the psych hospitals almost like if they're
full of people that we might call broken, are those people
almost like portals in and of themselves that attract
something or is it in that setting or did they go in with
it and there, there's a lot to unpack there.
There's so much to unpack there and not to veer all over the
map, but this is just a really fascinating conversation with
you. I meant it off off the start
when I said. Oh, this is going to be a good
one because. You've got my mind really
working here and although we have differing places that we're
coming from, I think we really understand each other.
So I'm going to offer something here about my friend DK, who's
if you've listened to the show, his music is at the end.
So my friend, he took his own life coming up on 11 years ago.
I have a friend who lost her son the same way a friend said to
her, He ascended of his own way. He ascended in his own way, or
he ascended of his own will. But it it, it was like a
different way to frame. He took his own life.
No, he ascended of his own will. Fair, and I mean.
A different way to to view it, You know, a different framework.
Words have power. Someone pointed out to me once,
which is seems so obvious. When they said it to me, they
said, you know, like a witch casts a spell and I said yeah,
and, and then. And Pastor, yeah, Pastor pulled
that, pulled that demon out of that girl by the power of the
Holy Spirit, because he spoke it.
Yeah. And someone said they call it
spelling for a reason, in relation to like how you create
words. And I said, Oh yeah, words
really matter. And the word spelling is
actually talking about the act of casting spells, which really
means words. Like literally are spells all
words, but every word is every word matters.
Someone on the show, you know, has offered up the idea that
thoughts are things and and that may well be absolutely true as
well. But just back to DK for a
second, because we are talking about these, you know, what
sound like effectively exorcisms or demonic kicking out, kicking
a demon out. And and so again, this subject
matter is all related in my mind.
So sometimes articulating my thoughts can be a little
difficult in the moment. I'm going to try my best here.
So I talk about on the show that having a paranormal experience
of any type is a type of liability.
That's why I start the show by saying it's brave to come on.
Part of that bravery is the internal fortitude to just
tackle it. Not everybody is lucky enough to
be strong like you are. A lot of people in the face of
unusual events may find themselves, you know, without a
foundation, you know, because of the change that's occurred in
their perception of, of the world.
And again, going back to my own encounter in 2019, which I
thought was a love filled, light filled, extremely positive
event. I'm going to go with, I'm pretty
sure my friend DK was having or had very similar visual and
auditory encounters with entities from the other side.
Because what was going on for him was he was becoming quite
elated. And truly, this was a person
doing great work, you know, at a high level in environmental
activism. Lots of success in music, lots
of success in public speaking and engagement.
He was touring around, presenting to schools, going on
the news. This was a guy who was achieving
his objectives and his dreams and at the same time was able to
do those things because he was being encouraged from a place
that others couldn't necessarily see or understand.
He was always visionary. He was always like, we can fix
it, we can do better. This is our world, like we're
here to be stewards of it. And he, he seemed to understand
the possibility of change and the need for change very, very,
very deeply. And in his music towards the end
and in his life towards the end, he was writing a lot about and
talking a lot about the true magical nature of the world.
I think he was using a lot of metaphor.
But he was, in my opinion, and based on the personal
conversations I had with him, you know, which allowed me to
make this analysis, he was experiencing and seeing a lot of
the same stuff that the people that I talked to on the show are
experiencing. And a lot of the time it is
magical, like objects appearing and re disappearing and
reappearing or you know, visual sightings like I had.
But at the same time it is psychologically damaging somehow
to be separated from the pack. To think of the world in terms
of good and evil forces being real, not just conceptual.
To then start to interpret the events in your day as
potentially being influenced by good or evil forces.
It's it can get to be a slippery slope to allow for the existence
of fairies or Bigfoot or demons like you're talking about or
even God itself can be something that is like hard to know for
sure and hard to make sense of. But in the case of fairies,
because it's sort of like a isolated community, not like a
religious community like you're fortunate enough to be part of
that has a real foundation, real institutions and real community.
If you see like a weird Cryptid or a fairy, you're kind of cast
astray all of a sudden and you're like, oh fuck, where do I
fit in? That's a very good point.
Anyway, just to kind of tie a bow on on that point and to to
relate it back to this exorcism that you're describing when he
took his own life, I never sat right with that for very, very,
very long time. I just couldn't see how that was
what he did. And I knew that he was wrestling
with this stuff. But the man I knew was extremely
capable and I just couldn't. I could never reconcile the act
of suicide. And not to trigger everybody,
but I think it's worth mentioning, like how it happened
and why it still is hard for me. He lived in an area where there
was a waterfall behind his family home, kind of like a park
in behind there. And he would go and meditate in
this spot at the top of the waterfall every day after work.
And one day he jumped from that position several 100 feet down
into into the very shallow water below, which the fall did not
kill him, but he was incapacitated and was in a
shallow pool of water and drowned in six inches of water.
I know and this is not. And I went to the scene of the
suicide at the top there and there's like a large set of
bushes. That you really would have had
to like get a running start to jump over those bushes to make
that, to get into the clearing where you're now falling, you
know, to clear the to clear the Ridge.
And I just could never understand how he would have had
it in him to just make that running swan dive, you know, up
and over 5 feet out of bushes to get into the clear.
And I, I felt something in that spot that I never could really
articulate this entire time, you know, and as I listen to you
talk, I've often wondered like, was he opening himself up?
And in that process, did he encounter a very similar
circumstance to the one you're describing with this 16 year old
girl? Right.
Did something whisper in his ear?
What would it be like just to jump?
And was that something he was victim to because he was on an
ascendant path, creating a lot of good and therefore was a
threat in that conceptual fight between good and evil?
And so that's what I'm trying to articulate.
As out there as that sounds, I am trying to say, you know, as I
listen to you talk, it gives me an opportunity to voice that
deep held concern I've always had, which is did he really mean
to do it or did he get a situation like with this girl
where something came in and forced that outcome?
So I'll give a little perspective here if I can.
When I was a police reporter at a daily newspaper, sadly there
was sometimes suicides that we became aware of in the
community, but we couldn't report on them.
I mean, that's not something you write an article about.
But I did have a conversation with the local coroner about one
particular suicide or suspected suicide because it was a college
student and she had been sitting in the window of her dorm 2
stories up and fell out, landed down in the quad and was dead.
And I said to him, well, is it a suicide or not?
And he said, we don't know. I said, well, you're the
coroner, why don't you know? And he said because she didn't
leave a note. And he said in my profession,
it's my personal rule that if there's no note, it wasn't a
suicide. He said I will never put on the
death certificate that it was because I don't want to do that
to the family. That was his take on it.
Yeah, in the case of any mental health struggle, I think it's
important just at this juncture in this conversation, which has
taken kind of a heavy turn to remind everybody, please stick
around until tomorrow and see what tomorrow brings.
Always, always. It's such a permanent solution
to a temporary problem. And there's always people that
say later if you would just talk to me, you know, and go to
church, go to church, you know, join a community, be a part of
things. Yeah.
Absolutely join a church is really strong advice, especially
one that you know. Feels right to you, whatever
that may be. Well, the, the other thing about
churches like the Pentecostal church that I'm, you know, that
I'm a part of in, in Key West still, I've often heard that
pastor say church is supposed to be a hospital for the soul.
You know, don't, don't stay at home crying in your bedroom.
If your whole world's falling apart, come here.
Let us pray for you because this is where things are supposed to
be made better and you're allowed to come while you're
falling apart. You know, I appreciate very much
you allowing me to zigzag into so many of my own internal
thoughts. I'll go a little further if it's
OK with you because this is all bringing quite a lot up for me.
Recently, one of the guests of on the show, The Gentleman named
Clyde, took his own life about 5 weeks ago.
So sad. I know, and he was in a lot of
contact with me up until it happened.
And very similarly to my friend DK, there's a lot of people
around this scenario that are just like what, you know,
because you're talking about again, another very like
articulate, kind, thoughtful, talented man whom, you know, up
until very recently was, you know, functioning normally.
You know, and I don't want to say too much more because I am
still trying to digest and process the, the flow of events
here, but I have reason to, I have reason to believe anyway
that the suicide in his case is also not as it appears
potentially. And I, I think that that's
interesting that the coroner's take, you know, he might, he
might be saying that because he just wants to protect the
possibility and not make the assertion, therefore not damage
the family if he's wrong. Right.
That that's it. He didn't want to hurt a family.
I mean, that's a very difficult thing to grapple with later to,
to try to make, you know, peace of.
Yeah. What we're talking about is
slightly different, which is that a apparent suicide, which
many people might judge as a suicide, may have a underlying
'cause that is not yeah, like it like.
And so you've said that you were present for other similar
demonic, you know, exorcisms. Could you tell me about others
if? You happen to it.
Yeah. And that and then, and then I'm
going to segue into doing ghost tours in Key West because the
commonality there is that if you're going to witness a
demonic possession and a release, man, you better have
some praying over any openings you might have that that could
sneak into. Oh, you've got to be so careful
that that something doesn't attach to you.
So, So the other two instances, one was in that church, it was
again after one of those Wednesday night prayer services.
It was a couple years earlier and I was tired and I just
wanted to go home. And I walked past a group of
women praying together and I could tell the woman they they
were laying hands on and praying for the way she was keening and
making these noises. I'm like, Oh my God, they're
releasing a demon. I just want to go home.
And I got outside and I got as far as my bicycle because
everybody there just rides bicycles around.
I couldn't get on the bike. I had to go back in.
I'm like, Lord, just leave me alone on this.
I just want to go home. Well, that wasn't going to
happen, you know, because when you become a follower of Jesus,
you do make the commitment to allow the Holy Spirit to work in
you and, and work through you. And I really was being like
blocked from getting on that bicycle.
It was like you're going back in the church.
So I went back in the church and I had just started going.
I really didn't even know these women.
And I felt like I was butting into something very personal,
but I just kind of went over on the edge and I said, you know,
can I pray with you? Sure, sure.
And it looked like pastor's wife had had about enough praying.
I mean, it's very draining to do that kind of heavy prayer.
So I laid my hands on this woman and I started just praying over
her. I I couldn't even hear what the
other women were praying. It was just, it was a sense of
ministering to this woman when all of a sudden she literally
started coughing and it was almost like she was trying to
get something out. And there was great
encouragement and prayers that was happening.
And then there was sort of this violent coughing.
It was clear that something had come out of her and, and been
released. And then she was just crying and
crying. And somehow we all recognized
that we then had to fill the void and we started praying in
the Holy Spirit into her. And I had some holy oil in my
purse. So I anointed her head and I
gave her the holy oil. And I said, now that you know,
whatever is clear of you, you need to anoint your, your
doorway before you go in your house.
You need to make sure you know that, that there's nothing in
your house, right? So she didn't even look like the
same person. When I saw her the next Sunday,
I went up to her. I asked her how she was doing.
She said, well, you wanted the women that was praying over me.
I said yes. And whatever had left her had
also unburdened her because there were lines on her face
that were gone. There was a piece about her that
hadn't been there before. And I knew her for a few years
while I lived there and had many conversations with her.
Whatever had left her was truly gone.
So that's that story. You know, this is ended up being
a totally interesting conversation in a way that I
didn't anticipate. That's a real treat for me.
Thanks for, you know, giving me so much to think about.
Sure. Thanks.
Thanks for inviting me to share all of this.
I really, truly believe there are people listening that need
to hear whatever I'm sharing. I'm.
I know myself pretty well, and I know that like I'm.
I'm deeply interested in in what you've got to say here tonight
because I just feel that kind of like, oh, wait, I want to.
It's funny, I can't really. I can't really effectively
articulate what I actually want to say, and that's rare for me.
That's how I know my brains been put into high gear.
I guess my my overarching thought that I guess I'll spurt
out is like, it does sound so interesting to me how these
religious practices mirror so many like new age or witch
practices. Or it's in the sense of like,
yeah, I mean, the, in your case, it's calling to a much higher
power. And I do concede that like, you
know, I don't think that witchcraft and what you're
talking about praying to the Holy Spirit are analogous.
What I mean, though, is just that the underlying
understanding of there's an invisible thing that's, you
know, doing something to a person that can be cast out or
brought in is very real in both scenarios.
Oh, yeah. And I think that I, I don't know
how I want to say this, but I feel like there's different
lenses that we all look through to make sense of the world.
And I think in the Pentecostal tradition of the Christian
faith, you know, calling out demons as I've just described,
OK, that's how it's done there. But I wouldn't be surprised if
in other religions or other world views, there's different
ways to do the same thing. But I believe it's the power of
the Holy Spirit that accomplishes it, no matter who's
doing it. And again, we're going back to
the, the fight, you know, good for evil over the, you know,
ownership of one soul. I find it all fascinating.
And it, it, it's just what you said, the unseen, you know, it.
I, I don't know, I find all of that fascinating.
OK. Well, with all of that like
heavy lifting behind. Us let's you want to hear some
fun ghost stories? That's where I'm, that's where
I'm going, absolutely. So while I was in Key West, I
joined a a company that does ghost tours and they're
nationwide. They've got 8 locations.
It's called Historic Tours of America.
They call themselves the Nation Storyteller, and they have
trolleys that run during the day and different, you know, tourist
destinations and tell the history.
And then at night, they have a black trolley called the Trolley
of the Doomed. And you dress up in character as
a ghost from a certain time period.
And while the trolley, you know, drives around and, you know,
stops or kind of slows down at certain points of interest,
you're telling the ghost story or the history of that point.
And it's all very interactive and fun.
So I portrayed a character named Letitia Roberts, who had been, I
said, a newspaper publisher in the late 1800s and was about to
put out an issue of the newspaper that was going to
reveal all the corruption in Key West.
But then over the printing press that night, there was a noise
behind me. I turned around too late.
You know, somebody had a rope around my neck.
And then I would joke with the people on the trolley and say,
all right, I didn't see who did it, but I remember all the
stories. And those are the stories I'm
going to share with you tonight. And then I'd look at some guy on
the trolley and just say, oh, my goodness, Sir, you look just
like him. And then everybody would laugh,
and I'd say, oh, you know, we got to keep an eye on this guy
tonight. So there was that kind of
interplay and, you know, some really kind of gnarly ghost
stories alongside some really fun banter.
But the serious part of the tour was that we left the trolley and
we went into a building called the Shipwreck Museum.
And it was, it was a rebuilt building on the footprint of
what used to be an auction house.
And the history in Key West is that in the 1800s, when ships
would come near Key West and hit the reef, they'd break apart and
they'd sink and the people spilled out into the ocean would
drown, but they would be hanging on to anything floating by to
just survive. A lot of people couldn't swim in
the 1800s, so there was a wrecking business where people
from the town would just get in row boats, row out to the wreck.
And whoever got there first was the person that was in charge of
of all of the contraband. And all of it will be brought to
shore and put in this auction house and auctioned off to
pretty much the locals. And it was believed that because
a lot of these things brought into the auction house had been
like lifesavers or life buoys for drowning people, that the
angst and the upset and the fear had transferred itself into
these physical items. Well, the auction house, you
know, eventually went out of business.
The wrecking trade went away and the building was rebuilt.
But a lot of those barrels and lifesavers, you know, the things
you throw out if somebody's drowning and artifacts that had
been rescued had been touched by those people.
So it was believed that the shipwreck museum that people can
now tour had a lot of very active paranormal things going
on. So when I joined the the cast, I
didn't think any of that was real.
I just thought it was part of the story.
And one of the stories that we told when we went in that
building was that there had been a suicide on the top of the
building and that the person that died now haunted it.
OK, that's another story, right? That's what I'm thinking.
And what he was known for was walking up and down the steps
while casting a shadow on the wall.
But he looked like a daddy long leg spider going by.
You just saw arms and legs. You didn't see the body.
And I thought, this is, you know, this is just something
they're making up to scare the tourists.
So yeah, I told the story, You know, the the tourists were
always waiting for something to happen.
And one night we saw it. These arms and legs just went up
the steps and down the steps. And all the tourists turned to
me and they said, did you do that?
I said, I didn't do it. I'm looking at it just like you
are. So we're all a little bit
freaked out. And that was when I started to
think, all right, maybe these are more the stories.
So I I had to go into that building ahead of the tour.
And before I got into costumes, like an hour before the tour
started at night, I had to go in that building and unlock one of
the doors from the inside so that when we all got off the
trolley and approached the door, it was already unlocked.
But that night when I walked in, there was all this banging in
the building, and I thought somebody was hammering something
on the wall. So I walked around a little bit,
and I called out, and I realized I was alone.
So I stepped outside and I reminded myself, OK, I'm an
intelligent person. I'm educated.
I make sense. There's no banging.
This is silly. So I walked back inside, and the
banging had stopped. OK so I walked to the door that
I had to unlock and when I reached for it something
physically pushed my arm out of the way.
My arm dropped. So I had been told by my cast
mates that if things ever got freaky inside that building to
talk to whatever was there. So that's what I did.
I turned around and I said, all right, I don't know what you
are, but you need to go back to your corner.
I'm coming back later with the tourists.
I'm telling them your stories get out of my way.
And I left the building. Well, that was the night that
that happened when I came back in with that tourist group and
we saw these arms and legs going up and then back down the
staircase and we were all freaked out.
So there's just some kind of high level of activity that
night, and there were many things like that that happened
in that building. When you say arms and legs, can
you describe that a little bit better?
Yeah, yeah. So it was really, it's very
difficult to explain, but we were in a, we were in a room
that was had very low lighting and we were all looking at a
staircase that went to the third floor and we're surrounded by
artifacts from sunken ship. So it was like a, a feeling of
almost like being inside of a ship.
And we're looking at the staircase.
And the best way I can describe it is if you've ever been inside
your living room and a car goes down the street.
And the headlights sweep across the wall and you see some
movement across the wall as the headlights move past.
We saw black sticks almost rapidly go down the wall next to
the staircase and back up. And it was almost like if you
saw a daddy long leg spider and you only saw the legs and they
were illuminated and you're just seeing them large and black go
up and down the stairs. It was just like the light
passed just enough that we could see it and then it was gone.
And that's why I say it was like headlights passing through.
And it was, it was very strange. But we referred to this man that
committed suicide, not him, but his spirit as Daddy Longwigs.
So interesting, especially the part about your hand kind of
being pushed out of the way. That was freaky because I mean,
something physically touched me and moved my arm.
So, so, you know, that's where my Christian faith came in is
that, you know, I talked to my pastor about it and I said, you
know, I don't want the stuff going home with me.
And he said, well, he said, you need to protect yourself.
He on the tour, he said before you go in the building, you need
to pray for protection over yourself and protection over
your tour group. And then when you leave the
building, you need to pray that nothing attached itself to you
or to those people. And that's what I did.
And, you know, I gave up that job then to work at the
Hemingway House as a tour guide there because I started to feel
like maybe I was taking a chance that I didn't need to take
'cause there were a number of other things that did happen in
that building. And I did have some of the
tourists take pictures there that they showed me later that
clearly showed demons. I mean, not like funny little
ghosts. I mean, I mean demons.
So I just started to think after some time, maybe it's better not
to do that. This fascinating and
wide-ranging episode has absolutely been anchored by your
presence. I've done a terrible job of
hosting the show tonight. I feel like I'm talking too
much. You've, you've been great.
I, my mind like wants to bounce back to ask questions about the
Bigfoot again and I should have done that back when you were
telling. Me but the.
Listeners can jump with us. Go for it.
You know what, the listeners will be just fine.
Fascinating. Fate listeners are honestly a
great group of people, Very smart, very sophisticated
listeners. I'm sure they'll be with us
along this journey. It's not as disjointed as it
initially appears. The threads of connection are
there, but what I've noticed is we're getting close to that 2
hour mark and I have a thing I do which is out of respect for
your time and the audience's time, I try to keep the episodes
around that 2/2 and 1/2 hour mark.
You've given me a lot to think about when it relates to, as it
relates to, you know, the suicide heavy episode that it's
been, these demonic possessions, your perception of what may or
may not have been a Bigfoot in your initial encounter.
So let's just circle it all back to the second time.
What I wanted to ask you is you said the leaves were all bedded
down and these saplings were connected at the top.
Was it like a woven connection or how?
Yeah, that's what it was. And that's that's what I was
saying to my friend was I couldn't see if it was woven,
but I could see they were joined together somehow.
And I said to her something with hands how to do this.
This is intelligent design and this is craftsmanship.
You know, I, I was very intrigued by it and, and I just,
I'm so curious and I just wanted to get a closer look.
And that's when, you know, I heard the growl and the hoof
hoof. I mean, it was, it sounded like
there was a bull and, and it sounded that big and it, it was,
it was a solid wall of sound. So it, I really just wanted to
see, you know, like, like why are all these branches put
together like that? And, and why is the, the grass
and the undergrowth all beaten down?
I just wanted to see. I was not meant to get any
closer. I'm sure that was for my own
good. It really feels to me as I
listen to you, like it was right there.
How high up was the the woven stuff?
Like how many feet off the ground?
It was not 4, no more than four feet, maybe only three feet.
I mean, it looked like something you could sit under and, you
know, shelter yourself under. But what was interesting about
this, this space, you know, where we were hit by the sound
is it was larger in diameter than the first structure we had
seen. But this one was not as thickly
woven or put together. It did not have as much coverage
from the saplings or or the branches or the sticks.
You could see through it where as the one we had first seen was
much thicker. It would have actually protected
you if it was raining a little bit.
So I'm not really sure, you know, what it was about, if it
was a nursery of some kind, if it was like a baby Bigfoot or,
or some youngsters. You know, what's weird is that
the woman I was with was my first doula client.
I used to be a birth doula. And it it could be that there
was even a Mama Bigfoot and that was where she was giving birth.
And, you know, we, we were, you know, about to violate some
sacred space. Absolutely.
Birth doula fits that personality that I identified
earlier, which is not. Scared by anything?
Totally. I get it.
You're, you're, you're absolutely fantastic in that way
because it allows you to tell these.
Stories and as I listen to you, I just don't detect any
embellishment. I'm just like, this is just
matter of fact facts being recounted.
Well done. Thank you.
Let let me ask you, OK, so you've been fascinated by
Bigfoot as you, you know, mentioned for a long time.
What do you think is going on with not being able to see it?
It didn't want to be seen. I mean, OK, that's great
motivation hypothesis, but beyond that, how?
OK, so I I think that it was in the next dimension and it didn't
step through whatever veil was between us to reveal itself to
me. When I saw that fucking fairy in
2019 it was like it was like 2 dimensional.
It was flat. It looked like it had punched
through reality is the best way I can describe it.
It looked like someone had done a hole punch on a black piece of
paper and shone a bright light from behind it and you could
distinctly see everything was emanating from one side of a
plane into the space which was the wheelhouse.
So I've seen what I believe is the ingress of a
interdimensional entity from one dimension into the other.
I think I've seen it happen is kind of what I think I saw that
day. Yeah, I, I believe it.
I just think that I think that whole park has some interesting
aspects to it. I sent you a picture earlier
that I took at that park at least 10 years ago.
And what's interesting about that picture is I just noticed
that the stream was really beautiful that day and that the
light filtering through the trees near the water was just,
it was like something out of a fairy tale forest.
And I, I just squatted down by the edge of the stream to take a
picture upstream. I'm watching the water come
down, I'm seeing the light filter through the trees and it
was just so beautiful. So what's interesting is that
about two years ago I bought a second monitor for my computer
setup and it's high definition. And I thought that that
particular picture of the stream would be so pretty as a
background. Well, that was the first time I
saw it 20 inches blown up. And I thought, what did those
faces do in there? I saw faces in the rocks.
And I shared it with a Bigfoot group on Facebook.
And people were seeing faces up in the tree canopy.
And I'm thinking maybe there is such a thing as a fairy.
So I'm waiting for your assessment of the picture when
you have time to look at it. But I'm just saying there's
strange things at that park. I also have a couple folks that
I have come on the show that I remain in contact with for whom
I will share that photo because they are like very, very it it's
interesting. Like it is interesting because I
definitely can attest first hand that I've been shown things I
said, OK, that's what I see. And without like divulging that
description, I've shared the photo with others to, to see
what are the other responses, right.
And so I, I'm going to do that again here and I'll reserve my,
I'll reserve not my judgement, but I'll reserve my feedback
until I've had a chance to undergo that process.
And I'll tell you everything that I learned and what I
thought other people, you know, can contribute as well.
It's interesting, you know, there's a number of Facebook
groups in which photography of the other dimension is a very
big part of the group. Or is the is the purpose of the
group? And I obviously troll those
areas, you know, of course, because some here's the thing, I
don't I've done this show for two, two years, right.
And I have. Talked to people that have seen
amazing things. And I know that there's a small
handful. I'm going to say 5 or so of the
people I've spoken to who I would say come pretty close to
having seen like what I saw, OK? But but I know that what I saw
that day back in 2019 was like fucking unreal.
It was like 1 dimension like opening up and.
Crawling into the other right in front of my eyes.
I will change you. No shit.
I, I guess my, my, my point is that fuck, what is my point?
I, I, I can't believe myself tonight.
Usually I'm such a composed host, but truly I do think the
mitigating factor. Here is your presence, which is
you're an unusual guest for me in the sense that you're
extremely pragmatic and the the religious underpinning while
still allowing for these things to be taken at face value.
You're just a very interesting duality there.
Well, thank you. Thank you for giving me a forum.
One of my biggest fascinations in the show is how do people
reconcile and live with these events?
And you are a unique perspective on on that side of things.
Why was I trying to talk about yes, we're talking about Bigfoot
the the interdimensional, you know, entity that Bigfoot may or
may not be like you're saying you think it just didn't want to
be seen. It hadn't come across from the
other dimension. I remember what my question was
going to be next and where I was going.
So when I saw that fairy in 2019 and it looked sort of
two-dimensional and ripping through reality.
And as I contemplate you being that, you know, more or less
face to face with an entity that you can't see.
And I think about this conversation I had with this
gentleman named Tristan, who for a long time went, went to the
fairy realm. Let's just, you know, condense
his story to just say like that he went there a lot.
And. He he reported back that there
are certain key features on the planet that overlap where what
is there on Earth is also there on the fairy realm.
And they're just, they're just a vibration apart, but they're
fairly identical. And that there are other places
that are totally separate, like where we have a mountain, they
might have an entire flat city, for example.
But it is more or less the waterways that are the same and
the areas surrounding those waterways.
And that, in part, the mechanism of ingress can be understood as
how a river or a water source is always there, but never the same
water. It's an impermanent, permanent
thing. And through that paradox is the
way in and out of the plains. And so I think it's interesting
that the Bigfoot is using saplings that you can see even
though it doesn't want you to see it.
And I wonder with all that mumbo jumbo condensed out of my mouth
there, if I can wrap it up into a question.
So with all that said, like how do you think that it's working?
Do you think it's there full time on Earth?
Or do you think it's sort sort of like what I'm talking about?
How do you understand it? Like why is it using something
physical when it could just hide itself?
Bingo, that's exactly what I'm trying to ask.
I think that's a really good question and I don't have any
kind of definitive answer. If I had a guess, it might go
back to what we touched on a little bit.
What is Bigfoot? Is he interdimensional and flesh
and blood? Because if he has to exist in
both worlds, then wouldn't he need something physical to
protect himself and his offspring in this one?
Well, that makes him just like us, 'cause right?
Is it, is it not true that our souls are in a, in a way, you
know, a type of interdimensional thing?
You know what I mean? It's it's same same to me.
I've seen in in some of the Facebook groups that I follow
the suggestion that those structures could protect or
pinpoint some kind of portal. Well, that, yeah, that in part
is kind of what why I was giving that little back story with
Tristan because he like, there is this also, there's another
man I spoke to who I can't get to come on the air, but his
story is super interesting, too. He's a hiker and he would hike
on the John Muir Trail in California pretty much every
summer. He did it like 10 times in, in
14 summers or something like that.
And so he knew the trail very well.
And that's a pretty huge hike. That's one of the top ten
hardest hikes in the world according to National
Geographic. So it's, you need a lot of, you
don't go out there unless you're prepared.
And part of that is knowing how to, knowing how to orienteer,
you know, so this guy is not a joke.
And on one particular time he was going and he was walking and
he, I get goosebumps every time I tell this story.
He was going and he, he just started to feel like I don't
know where I am, what this says, I don't know.
I don't recognize this at all. Like what is this like?
And he said foliage was different.
He said the light was different. He said sound.
He said it was earth, but it was not.
And he started to become extremely uneasy.
So he said maybe I'm just lost and I'm having a panic attack.
So he turned back and as he started to go back, he's
walking, he's walking, he's walking, and he's like an
experienced navigator. So he, on his way there, had
noted landmarks constantly as he was walking.
And as he's starting to go back, he knows he's on the same exact
exact trail. That's for sure.
He hasn't gotten off the trail and now he's going back and he
does not recognize anything that he is passing on his way back.
And now his panic is increasing tenfold.
And he goes on to explain in detail that he found himself
trapped in the fairy realm. And it wasn't until he returned
to a specific point on the trail that he was able to visually see
where the break was and able to get back onto the other side.
And that's his story. And I mean, he describes it like
it was so he was just walking, walking, walking.
Everything was normal. He didn't do anything special.
He wasn't out for a meditation or an attempt to go to the fairy
realm. Do you understand?
He was just walking for his hike and he just found himself in
that other place. And it he, it very much suggests
when I listen to Tristan and I listen to this guy that you may
very well be right there, that perhaps it's protecting a type
of weak spot in between the two planes.
I don't know. I think it'll be interesting
when you, when you look at the photo I sent you, somebody else
that looked at it said there were two portals between some
trees right past the stream in the picture.
So maybe this farm is someplace, this park is someplace where
there are portals and, you know, now people are walking through
the woods all the time. I don't know.
I mean, part of me thinks that Bigfoot is a protector.
So if this is some kind of special spiritual place and
Bigfoot is there, that might be his purpose.
You know, what a wide-ranging and absolutely fascinating
conversation we've had here tonight, Katrina.
It's been. I want to say it's been fun, but
I feel like that's not the right word.
It's been intriguing. It's like I enjoy a good mind
scratches. Well, I appreciate, I appreciate
you having me on. It's a unique conversation to go
into the catalog and I'm extremely proud to have created
this, you know, work of art here with you tonight because it's
super, super full of both of our personalities wrestling with
this subject matter. Right, right.
We just don't know. Well, you know when you stop and
you really break it down, right, How a person understands the
paranormal is. Equally as fascinating, if not
more fascinating than the encounters and experiences
themselves. So the show fascinating Fey Loki
is mostly actually about how people are walking in their skin
as they deal with these things as it is what happened to them.
And the latter maybe the more interesting one in a lot of
cases because, you know, matters of faith, matters of navigating
life are extremely nuanced. And there is, in my opinion, you
know, no right answer. I like that you've got some
confidence that there is a right answer for you.
And I really admire that. For me, I was never able to find
the satisfaction in a religious practice.
And I still don't even find the satisfaction in what I'm doing
here. Now I'm just.
Constantly asking questions and confusing myself, you know?
That's part of the fun. Well, I can't be disingenuous
and pretend I understand it well enough to give it any real like
authority. So it is what it is for the time
being, which is just an aggregation of conversations
that produces trends that can start to form hypotheses, and
we'll take it. From there, right?
So, and that's what brings us comfort when we have these
unusual experiences and we learn that other people have and we
see some commonalities that helps us say, oh, OK, well I'm
not so strange then after all. One of the most comforting
things is the commonality of experience and the disparity of
the people. Everyone is so different, but
the stuff is the same and that's what's truly comforting because
it was isolated to one kind of person.
Then you could say that's just a byproduct of a lifestyle that
everyone's living, you know, but that's not true.
You don't have to be any kind of way to begin with for this stuff
to unfold in your life. That's why I think, you know, to
go back to DK and others, Clyde, you know, I, I carry on because
I know that for for sure, for a lot of people listening, holding
the space that I do for the show to exist like it does without
judgement and with allowing it to get strange and weird and
contemporary, you know, not isolating folklore as the reason
not, you know, in your case, the ghost story, I think is related
to like a past event, But I think that, you know, some stuff
is just very contemporary, you know, at the same time.
So allowing the show to be what it is and allowing guests like
yourself to come forward is, is, you know, therapy like you
mentioned for for both of us and, and for everybody listening
and to try to contain it in any other kind of container than
just allowing people to be themselves and be honest that,
hey, this isn't always easy to understand and I don't really
know. Anything about it?
Exactly. But this is what I think and
feel I hope is a good service. I don't know if it makes for a
good podcast or not. I think it's just the only way
that I, I can do it, you know, at the end of the day, so.
Well, thank you for letting me be a part of it.
Truly one for the books Well, you listen to a few episodes and
so you may know this one's coming I ask all of the guests
that come on the show the same question and I'll ask it to you
now if. It's OK with you.
OK, Well, Katrina, not that you know, not that any of us know,
but what do you think that fairies are?
I think they're just part of a another dimension, another
realm, and sometimes they pop through and wink at us.
I think they're always there, we just don't always see them.
That's why I think Bigfoot's a fairy.
OK. OK.
I'll, I'll go with that. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty close,
MO. If I were you, I might not call
him a fairy to his face. You know what, the big guy can
come on down here to Costa Rica and I can share some mangoes
with him and see if he, if he'll.
Yeah, you know what one of the like, one of the things about
the show is like, yeah, how do straight white dudes talk about
fairies? This is what it looks like in my
case anyway. Yeah.
And I get that joke like so often on Reddit, and I say, oh,
there's the, there's the loser. You know what I mean?
When I when I say like, I, I. Often ask sorry I'm butchering
my own delivery there. I often ask on like Reddit, hey
have you seen a fairy? And then someone will say.
Like, oh, yeah, I was down in like, San Francisco last week.
I saw a ton of them, you know, It's like, OK, thank you very
much, you know? Well, you know, what's funny is
I, I have a daughter who's 26 now, but when she was little,
there was just something about her.
She loved playing in the woods. And she, she was always playing
around the base of trees and, you know, making mud pies and
making, you know, little, you know, designs with leaves and
rocks and sticks. And I said to her, totally
serious one day. I said, when you're playing in
the woods, you know, with the trees and everything, do you
ever see the little folk? You ever see the fairies?
And she just looked at me for the longest time and didn't say
anything. She never answered me.
I think she was seeing something and was just looking at me like,
are you really that dumb? Like, that was the look she was
giving me. Like, are you serious, Mom?
She never answered me. Yeah, like asking you like when
you're playing, do you see the rocks, Mom?
Yes, of course. She's a very, very old soul.
She's been around many times. I'm convinced she was born
knowing a lot more than I ever will.
It was all there in her eyes the first time I held her.
I'm like, whoa, this is a deep one.
I've birthed. And her brother's completely
different. I think he's a completely new
soul. I think everything is just awe
inspiring and a wonderment to him.
I think he's never, he's never experienced any of this before.
They're completely different. He's a little more open to some
of this stuff. You know, I shared with him what
happened to me last weekend and he just, you know, he takes the
under advisement. You know, he's not for it or
against it. He's very neutral.
As you did a nice like totally unrelated segue into your
children there, I think I figured it out.
What what was melting in my brain the entire time tonight?
I really like a lot of what you think, and I think it's melting
my brain that I think similarly at all to a Pentecostal
religious person. So that's so interesting to me
because I think we actually really understand one another.
And I'm going to look a little bit more into Pentecostal
Christianity when we're done talking.
Just go. You have to have the experience.
It's like trying to convince somebody of fairies or Bigfoot
just by telling them you have to go have the experience, show up
at a church, go with an open mind, see what happens.
I've made the joke a number of times, and you'll encounter it
on the show as you continue to listen.
That you know Jesus sounds like one hell of a fairy.
You know he's an invisible person.
That you. Make wishes to, you know, you
better behave, you know, because he's going to judge you what
you're doing and there's a bunch of rules and, you know, don't
make deals and. Yeah, yeah, he, he's an
interesting figure. You know, I, I grew up in the
70s and going to Sunday school they had, when they told the the
Bible stories that the Sunday school teachers had these felt
boards, you know, it was like felt fabric over an easel.
And they had little cut out figures of Jesus and Samson and
Delilah and the apostles and Mary and Joseph.
And they would stick them on there with Velcro while they
were telling the story. Anybody who anybody, anybody
listening who went to Sunday school in the 70s knows exactly
what I'm talking about with the felt board.
But for me, the Jesus I could identify with was the one that
flipped the tables in the temple.
Like I got the Jesus that had that righteous anger who was
like, yeah, I'm not putting up with money changers in the
temple. And he just started flipping
tables and I'm like, yeah, go Jesus, bad ass Jesus.
Like that was the Jesus I got turn to the other cheek being so
nice. I'm like, what really.
You know, So I have always been fascinated by stories of Jesus
because I I mean, he was a teacher.
He was, he was a man who who, who lived flesh and blood,
right, but was without sin. But he had this, you know, the
spiritual nature that he's the Son of God.
So he was, he was fully man, but he was fully spiritual.
So I've always been fascinated by Jesus.
One thing I believe that you and I can both agree on is it's
never not been biblical times that epic struggle for good and
evil is ongoing and and and until the great resolve here, we
find ourselves so and. We're still trying to figure it
out. They've been trying to figure it
out since Jesus Day. That's why we're talking about
it. We're sharing our experiences
with each other. We started here at the top and
we'll end here, which is I like how two different people like
you and I can come together and have this conversation.
I think that's a huge accomplishment, honestly.
Absolutely. Thanks again.
Yeah, I've learned a lot. I've been totally stimulated.
My thinking is changed and that's why I do this show.
So I the thanks flows from this side of the mic to you.
You've been a great guest tonight, honestly.
I mean. That thank you so much.
I've really enjoyed this. Same.
OK, well, with that momentum, let's do this.
I spend one minute signing off, doing housekeeping at the end of
each show, and then I give my guests the last word.
So if it's cool with you, I'll, you know, do my housekeeping and
then you can share your last thoughts as we go to sign off
here tonight. Sounds good.
OK, awesome. Well, tonight you've been
listening to Fascinating Faye. I'm your host, Jim, if you've
had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show.
If you've got some diverse perspectives like tonight and
you'd like to be on the show. Please shoot me an e-mail.
You can do that. At
encounters@fascinatingfaye.com and you can also find the show
on any social media by looking for it at Fascinating Faye.
You can send me Adm on Facebook, Instagram, if you want to get in
contact with me that way, if that's more comfortable for you
than an e-mail, for example. And I don't ever mention it, but
I'm on Reddit quite a bit so you can find the show there.
I do quite a lot of posting and there's actually tons of
interesting responses that don't make it into the show to some of
the posts I put out looking for submissions.
So I've never mentioned that before.
Totally neglect to do so. And I thought I'd mention it
here tonight. You can find the show on Reddit.
With all that said, I will say that on behalf of all of our
human and non human listeners tuning into fascinating Faye
tonight, a super big thanks to Katrina for coming on the show.
Katrina, thank you so much for being here.
I sincerely appreciate it. Thank you, I appreciate being
able just to talk so freely and examine some of the ideas and
experiences. This has been a wonderful
experience for me. Truly one for the books.
I I really mean that. Likewise right back at you.
Very, very stimulating and engaging conversation.
Well, with all those, you know, good feelings behind us, let's
let's let you have your last words, please.
My last words are thank you for allowing me to share so many
cool experiences. And that's what I would
encourage everybody listening to do whatever experience you've
had. I don't think it takes that much
bravery to talk about it. I think just talk about it
because you know it happened and maybe you'll find other people
that needed to hear that. Hey, it's been a quarter century
and there's no use fighting just what way the mind goes.
Today I surrendered gently and the answer rather long was under
my nose to say to smell the earth right after rain.
I'm still looking for some things that I can't fight.
Today I fought a battle in my brain and I'm rattling the cage.
It is my mind over hills and through the fiery peaks of love.
The heart so cold it could freeze through the woods.
I walked a hurricane above till I could finally see the forest
for the trees. Hey, oh, tonight I lay awake and
my meandering mind is on a playground.
Today in creation, I embrace all the geniuses and time and all
that they found to say to smell the earth right after rain.
I'm still looking for some things that I can't find.
Today I fought a battle in my brain and I'm rattling the cage.
It is my mind over hills and through the fiery peaks of love,
to a heart so cold it could freeze, through the wilderness,
a hurricane above, till I could finally see the forest for the
trees. Well, you know, what's funny is
I, I have a daughter who's 26 now, but when she was little,
there was just something about her.
She loved playing in the woods. And she she was always playing
around the base of trees and, you know, making mud pies and
making, you know, little, you know, designs with leaves and
rocks and sticks. And I said to her totally
serious one day, I said, when you're playing in the woods, you
know, with the trees and everything, do you ever see the
little folk? You ever see the fairies?
Fairies, fairies, fairies. Well, I've been dreaming of a
land, a world, that one with what is what, where I can
understand. And you would leave me by the
hand. Take me to a garden found where
flowers bloom all year round. And I do believe it's there.
Yeah, I do believe it's there. The angels singing by the shore
and people play right through the day just like we did before,
and they have never gone too old.
To the land where people stand with two feet on the floor.
They have never gone to war, never stood on a battlefield, or
ever. Every sword or shield.
And I do believe it's there. Yeah, I do believe it's there
and I do believe it's there. Yeah, I do believe it's there.