Hey everyone. I'm Ashley.
And I'm Jasmine. And you're tuned into ham radio.
A stranger things podcasts. Welcome back to another episode
of ham radio, shrink stranger things.
Podcast is always me and Jasmine have a special episode for you
guys. And what makes this one more
special? Is because we have to first time
guests on to the podcast. And also, there are first part
of our first guest Of the New Year.
I'm talking of course about Zak and Devin who are the hosts of
the hellfire club Collective podcast.
Zach, Devon, Welcome to our show.
Thanks for having us. It's great to be here.
Yeah, we're really excited. So you know what we always like
to do? We have guests on here is, you
know, we just like to ask a few little under introductory
questions so I'm just going to start just by asking you guys
just you know you talk about your show.
I know it's a re-watch, The Stranger Things re-watch
podcast, but yours is a little bit different than most who can
you elaborate on that until people why it's different?
Jordan, take the reins on that one.
So it actually we got the idea. As soon as we finished the
latest season, we immediately start talking to each other
about, you know, whether or not they plan this out from the
beginning, but I not to judge I'm going to jump in over.
I had I had seen a couple articles online.
Like, the deaf were brothers saying that they had like they
had known what they were going to do from the very beginning
and I had brought it up to Zach and we Talked about it a little
bit, and he was like, wouldn't it be cool if we like re-watched
it to see if that was true or in the that falls aligned?
And that's kind of what happened.
Yeah, I mean we figured, you know, we're gonna do this
anyway. We're I know we're going to have
thoughts about it because even just talking about, I was like,
there's no way and we're like, you know what, we're going to do
something different. We're going to record ourselves.
We're going to talk about it and we're going to try to make a
podcast out of this. We're just going to talk about
Episode by episode. Code.
What about this? Episode could have inferred?
That this is one solid plan all throughout the entire show?
That's kind of what we try to do with the Hawkins Hellfire
Collective. Is watch the show from season
one to season 4, and say, how much of this was planned and
where, can we see that plan in the show?
Awesome. And I listened like every every
Sunday when you guys drop me at the sides.
Thank you because, like, you bring it up a lot of stuff that,
you know, I hadn't, you know, thought of before.
That's, that's been really, really cool.
Um, so when did you start watching?
Stranger things. It's when it started.
Yeah. Like a couple days after when
live on Netflix. Yeah, so we saw it come up and
we're like, yeah, well, we'll put that on the list.
And then we had gone to my parents house, and my brother
was still living there and he was like, have you guys started
watching stranger things yet? And we were like, well, no, it's
on the list. He's like, no, you need to watch
it now and he put it on at their house and we watched like the
first like five and five or six episodes and then we came home,
why? Watched one where we need to go
to bed, it's late and then woke up early the next morning to
watch the like, the last episode.
We immediately got hooked on it. We binged hard a stranger
things. Came out.
Does he have really sorry? Are we did?
We have binged real hard for like every every season.
After that like will watch it in a day and just be like, I think
we need to go back and watch it again because we probably missed
stuff. Well, I'm a late bloomer.
I didn't start watching until like 2018, so between Seasons,
two and three. So really season, three was the
first one I ever watched in real time.
So I think that's why I love season 3 so much.
I do remember when the show first came out though, because I
remember, I watched the promos on Netflix and I thought I saw,
you know, 11. And I was like, wow, this show
looks really weird. It looks like I don't think I
can get into it because I thought it was about, I don't
know, like, you know, a mental institution and this girl was in
there and I was just like, I don't really know if I'm you
didn't do that. But now looking back on it, I
can do kind of wish that I would have used better judgment just
watched it because, you know, I would have been part of the oh
jeez. Also, you know, Netflix didn't
have a lot of original content at that time.
And so it's probably a little bit more special to watch it
back then, but I've been hooked ever since.
And again, one could blame you for that though.
I don't think Netflix really understood how to Market their
shows back then. Well, there's that interview
with. I think it's David Harbour that,
like he said, the like, you talked to a friend of his back
when they filmed it and like he's like a notice in the
summer. Cooking technique in his friend
who worked in television was like, oh, they're trying to bury
it. They don't, they don't know what
to do with it or like they're trying to Bear the show and I
think I got to, I don't know if they were trying to bury it but
I think you're right. I don't I don't know if they I
mean it was such a new thing like back then.
Like I think that was their first hit after Orange is the
New Black if I'm not mistaken. So I don't think they knew how
to Mark things also. Like I feel like that was the
era of like, you know, like prior to that made-for-tv thing
was a step down in your career. Netflix, you'll people like to
you know, there's not criticism that's valid but they were
Netflix is it took that whole made-for-tv thing and it took it
from like the step down your crew to a level up to something
that could make you a career. Or, you know, bring you new
opportunities and it was the kind of the kickoff of
streaming. So, I think you're right.
They didn't, I don't think they really knew nobody knew In
fairness how to Market streaming back then and similar to do
Ashley, I didn't do. I didn't want to say, Say two
things until the pandemic. Which I think I watched it for
the first time in 21. I say I think because the last
three years are such a blur, but it created 2012, although I
think of us But yeah, similarly I watch it and people, you know
said oh you gotta watch. It was described to me I've
never seen a trailer never seen a promo.
I don't have that escaped me but it did.
I got a new what was? It was a thing but I didn't know
anything else and every time someone described me, they made
it sounds super scary. And I don't like horror, I like
True Crime, but I like her. I don't like $3, don't like any
of that. So when they described to me as
like, oh this is like super scary, I'm not gonna Like this
at all. And then actually the reason I
want to watching was I saw the movie for you guy.
I don't know if you guys have seen it.
Yeah yeah. So I went off we got and I love
that movie so much. I wouldn't talk twice in
theaters which I haven't done in years and then I watched it like
twice when it came out on Disney class and I walked out of that
movie and I went I need to see every person in that movie in
like twenty hundred more things and what got me doing something
I love about the movies. I was like man I'm watching it.
There isn't like I know these actors but I don't know from
what other one home and go get it Mike.
Oh wow. Like the costume team did such a
good job. They look so different that
movie you don't recognize them but not really.
And so I was like, oh, that's the that guys, in stranger
things is so like I was talking to a friend of mine.
We watch a lot of TV together and I'm like, you've seen it
right? Remember her talking vaguely
about like being mad about Barb like four years ago or something
and I listened but I didn't really mean anything to me.
And then We were at her house and I was like you've seen it
right? And she's like, yeah.
And I'm like, I'm thinking about watching it.
Do you think I would like it? Like, it sounds scary.
But you like, you know, me because I feel like a lot of
times when people describe things to me, they're not very
accurate and I trust her like she knows what I can and cannot
handle a of a TV show and she's like, yeah, there's a couple of
jump scares with the monster and season 1 but apart from that
like it says, it goes on, is more of a mystery that is
horror. It's you know then we get really
into the 80s and the Russians and I'm like, okay so we started
watching it. It and then like first episode
was kind of. Yeah.
But then, like we said, watching at my place and then like we
started bent watching it and I was like, oh yeah.
Like I've just been watching it and she said, well, we could
watch it together so you don't mind me watching and she's like,
honestly, it's been so long. I remember season.
What I barely remember, season 2 or 3?
Because this point have been ages since season three had come
out and said, yeah. Until then like, we want to been
watching and I've ever getting kind of like, you did to the end
of the night and be like, we need to go to bed, but the Nancy
went into the freaking tree. And I'm like no, no.
So then we had to stay up. We were like up to like 11:00 at
night and it was like, because we got to figure out do like if
she wanted to the tree. Does she come back out of the
tree? Like what it's the movie?
Just like, binge. Watch that for season one and
then season 2 and season 3 and we couldn't been watch season
for the same way because it was really long.
And she was like, on a trip of the US during volume 2 But,
like, we watched it in like, yeah, I think volume one came
out rewards like everything we could.
I like the Friday that I went her house was Saturday morning,
don't like watch the rest of it. So, um, yeah.
We both got really into it. And yeah, I've just become
totally obsessed. So, like, Ashley's.
I'd never seen it before and I kind of was like, I kind of wish
I'd watched it sooner because, you know, I think it would have
been cool, like, I see stuff. Online, on my go, we've been
called to be part of that. Or like, when I was looking up,
stuff for Halloween costume this year, I went as Chrissy and
nice. Yeah, I was Googling stuff and,
you know, different obviously didn't come as of collapse with
them now, right. And there was it turns out
there's like a nation I'm calab for season 3 and I'm looking at
it and I'm like, oh man, that's it.
Would have been coded by but you can't, you only got it that
year, right? You can't get it anymore.
And so stuff like that, where I'm like, oh, that would have
been really cool. Yeah.
What were you say? You are we made.
Sure Devon didn't actually miss out on the latest.
Yeah, I got I got the Hellfire Vans because I have I have a
problem. I haven't any problem, any Eddie
merchandise and has landed in my lap.
I fit into the Christmas gifts this year, too.
Yeah, like also, you know, Jasmine was talking about you
With the other actors being another stuff.
Yeah, that's one of the reasons that I chose to watch the It
movie in 2017 because I was like, hey, you know, well not in
2017, businesslike, 2019. When I watched it, I was like,
oh, that's been wolfhard. I mean it should be that bad.
Very bad mistake because I do not like horror and so I if I
had to go back and redo that I would not have watched just
because he was going to be in it, but yeah.
One of the reasons I like watching Thrillers or
psychological stuff is because of stranger things because you
know, they just helped me kind of learn more about stranger
things because it is a lot of you know psychological elements
to it. So watching this show has been
helped. It was been really good to help
me broaden my film and television viewing.
So Zach, Devon what has been your favorite?
Season of stranger things so far.
That's tough hardest question that will ever be asked, you
know, I feel like it's hypocritical to say or mayor
something like because, you know, you never want to say
like, oh the newest season is my favorite season, but I kind of
think season for actually is my favorite season of the show so
far. So my I think my favorite is
want. I season one honestly, I really
like season one because it's that it's a great like jumping
point of all the characters. Season 4 is a close second, but
I really like season one. I thought that was a great way
to, you know, kick off a show. And like there there's nothing
like the Nostalgia Factor. Her and everything that you get
from from season one, I feel like yeah, I mean II, totally
agree. I think season 1 in general, can
stand on its own as its own thing.
You don't actually need season two, three and four.
They're all fantastic. But like, season one can stand
on its own as an incredible show and an incredible one shot.
I think the reason I still currently like for best is that
even though there were character decisions, I really didn't agree
with especially for, you know, Finn For Mike and Jonathan when
season four was on, it was really on.
Yep. Like everything, involving
Nancy, Steve Austin, it was so good.
The Hawkins crew was on the whole.
Yeah and even the Russia stuff, I went into season for thinking,
I was going to hate the entire Russian sub lat and as soon as
they ended up like in the actual Gulag we're like, you know, the
demagogue and is down there from that point.
Anton, it took off and I actually really enjoyed it.
I thought I was going to hate it.
Yeah, it's me, you know watching you know, the first season of
stranger things. Math course I wasn't, you know,
they're in 2016 to watch it but the first time I watched it, I
really enjoyed it because it's got like you know first time you
hear a really good song and even though you you enjoy listening
to it, you know, multiple times you're never going to get that.
The feelings sensations of listening to it for the first
time ever again. And that's kind of how the
stranger things is like you're never going to Thrill of of, you
know, the first eight minutes of this show ever again.
So to me, that's why it's so iconic because, you know, they
started off like right away, will gets taken and then, boom.
We're off to the races. And yeah, I mean, it was just
it's, you know, it was very different, very different show
and, you know, it's still 20 degree is, you know, they Like I
know, you know, Obi Wan Kenobi, came out the same time season
for and to my knowledge season for out death, everyone and all
the categories, you know, because people like different,
but a good different, you know. Yeah, so looking back on season,
one after you watch season for do you?
In fact, no / Amory / one was in the Decker Brothers Minds at the
time of writing the first season where d'you think that came
later we didn't we talked we talked about this, didn't we
talk about this a lot that we really don't think that that was
in their mind until like, season two, right?
Yeah, we land it on. I think the Way That season one
plays out and especially the way it ends and the Text of
understanding that The Duffer Brothers didn't know whether or
not the show was going to be a success.
They didn't know whether or not they're going to get a season 2.
They initially intended to create an anthology series for.
It was a different story every season with totally new
characters. Not even based on Hawkins or
anything. Yeah.
With all of that, in mind, it really doesn't seem like they
had this plan in season one. I do think, I think we've talked
about this pretty extensively. We both think that once they
started writing season 2, They planned out at least a rough
sketch of everything to come afterward.
Yeah, it seems pretty apparent that from season 2 on vecna was
the plan. Yeah, we found, we were tying a
lot more things together with like, season 4 and possible
future things with season two, then we did with season one.
Like we would, we would watch things like, I don't, that
doesn't seem like, it's going to have anything to do with what's
going to happen next, right? Like, this doesn't play with the
rules. They established later on at
all. Like yeah, there's a lot of that
in season 1. Yeah, definitely you could you
could definitely view season. One is actually be as being a
standalone season because I agree like season 2 from season
2 on word is you can definitely tell that's when they knew where
they wanted to go with the series, but I do think that they
knew they wanted to do something with number one because you know
what that companion novel. Ville, whatever came out.
The author was allowed to write about whatever she wanted to.
She just couldn't write about number one.
So I do think, you know, they they didn't, they had a plan to
eventually include. Number one, possibly is the gun,
but I don't think the Batman Henry Grill stuff came until
they were possibly writing season 4.
Yeah, I knew you guys, you talk a lot about understand.
That's why I was like, I have to ask because you don't know.
Well, now, he's a big part of the show and it's ending.
So, it's only natural for us to speculate, okay.
We has, has he been a part of their plan from the beginning or
was, or is it, you know, just him coming in now, too?
Wrap up the story, right? Was he always supposed to be the
big bad and that's kind of like what we're trying to speculate a
little bit. Yeah, we want to find all the
evidence for it and I think there was a, there was a big
moment in season two, that really solidified it for us.
Whether the clock. Oh, look in the end credits.
Yeah. In the in the end credits of one
of the episodes you hear the clock from season four.
College. I want people making the edits
of 15 people make a difference in those edits with the day.
They talk about like where you can hear a clock throughout the
seasons. If you guys, you knows I do know
what you're what you're talking about with that, but this was
different. So this was just like just the
end of an episode like you know how sometimes when the credits
will go, it'll be a like the a continuation of the song that
the episode ends on or you know, just Sometimes it's just silence
and there was one particular episode.
I don't remember what I'm pretty sure it's immediately after the
smoke is going into will, okay? Okay, so the end of that episode
and like during the credits, like, when the credits are
rolling, it's a clear like grandfather clock, like chime
length, chime. It doesn't sound like warped and
old like it does in season 4, but it is clear.
That it is a grandfather clock. And I remember when we, when we
were watching that again, I was just like, that's a grandfather
clock. Do they know what they're doing?
I'm pretty sure if you take that exact sound effect that they use
without episode, throw it into an audio editor and slow it down
a couple decibels. You're going to hear the
grandfather clock from season four?
Yeah. That's pretty cool.
Yeah I hadn't thought of that would usually I don't I'll be as
a usually I don't wait around unless it's like a season finale
because I want to see if there's a post credit scene or not.
Yeah that's Rangers. I have to go back and re-watch
the episode to see if it's in there.
I mean like you know when Hopper first goes into the upside down
and season 2 there's like a little dong Almost like, that's
what I heard was thinking of Yas in the guidance of that one and
that one always gets me because it's like it.
I think it's subtle to the point that you don't notice it.
But now that we know that there's something with the clock
and vecna now you can stack, I've noticed people started to
pick up on more stuff so yeah, I don't just think about it, I
don't know, like, we're not listening to your podcast.
I was thinking I was like, yeah, like maybe you're right of, they
didn't have that plan to season two.
But then on the other hand part of me is like well maybe they're
just pieces that were missing. You know what I mean?
Like after watching season for my kind of feeling was like,
okay maybe this was the plan all along or at least part of this
was the plan and there's just like a piece of the puzzle we're
missing. That was kind of the vibe.
I got out of season for like we got to the end of it.
I'm like wait we didn't find out this this, this, this, this,
this, this we're missing piece of the puzzle.
So like totally get what you guys are saying, but also to me,
the vibe I got was I feel like we're just missing piece of the
puzzle. So that's kind of that's kind of
where I'm at. Yeah, definitely I think a big
one is why is the upside down stuck in the day that will went
missing? And we have theory about that.
Like we will have to go super into that right now but like
that's a big piece of the puzzle that they need to explain Yak
season if they don't, it's like total missed opportunity.
Yeah, I think we're gonna have to go ahead Jasmine soon as I
did, they have the different because I thought they were
going and they didn't and I know you guys have talked about this
extensively, so won't go too much into it.
But something that, you know, when I was in the episode, I was
like, you'd like, oh this doesn't work and I'm like, oh
it's going to do that. That's how you guys saw it.
Because to me I'm like the vibe I got was like it's not that it
doesn't work. It's that like will has the kind
of special relationship with the upside down and I thought we
were going to get into that volunteer because I set that up
and then I'm like, oh we're not, we're not, it's like, oh no,
we're going to season 5. So I'm super excited about the
exhibit. Will's going to be like a big
focal point of season 5 and all my all right because I love Rosa
character and his people keep putting out this season.
They're like will witnessing and then he got possessed and then
he got sidelined and then he's in a van and like when is Wills
going to be Wills moment to shine.
So I'm super excited for season 5 and in my heart I feel like
we're missing a piece of the puzzle that piece of the puzzles
will we're going to see it and even if it doesn't line up
perfectly, I'm still super excited for it like So excited
for that about season 5, absolutely.
We've been saying the same thing.
We need to write like will is five needs to be Wills time to
shine. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100% 100%. So I'm going to be the outlier
here and hopefully, you know, you will still want to come back
on our show even after I say this, but on, I just want you to
keep in mind that I like, will, like I have nothing against will
buyers as a character or as a person but II, do not think,
right? As of right now, with giving
zero context of season 5, I just don't think that will is He's
going to be at quite as important.
I think is some fans. Have, you know, that want him to
be. I mean, it could be like you do
in season 5 instead of, you know, feeling the tingling on
his neck and not telling anyone, he could be like, hey guys, he's
here. You know, it's probably going to
be something like that because, you know, characters have been
hyped up. For and then once you see it on
screen, nothing ever, actually comes to fruition.
So I'm not, I'm not going down that train just yet until I get
a little bit more context. You know, teasers trailers, you
know that sort of thing because I think I think at the end of
the day What's going to happen in season 5 is they're going to
have everything happen and then it's going to be for an epic
showdown between 11 and vecna. Weather will whatever party
plays in that or not. I don't really know but that's
just my take on will for next season only because, you know,
they've had so much time to continue to develop him and is
Jasmine pointed out, you know, they sidelined him.
And then This season they just put them in a van and they don't
really have them doing much. And I just wanted to the fifth
and final season, I don't really know if they have time to
completely give him a bunch of stuff and then explain, you know
why he's able to do this this and this because you know, one
of them fears I have for season 5 in general was that they're
not going to have enough time to you know wrap up the story lines
have been set and season. Or much less all the ones from
back in season one either potholes that have yet to be
answered. So, I just want for season 5
like if it's important for will to, you know, have powers or
what have you and it aids the plot then by all means, please
do that. But if it's not, please don't
waste a second of screen time on it.
When there's other more important things that you could,
you know, be Aiming for it but that's just that's just my hot
take. That's probably the last one for
that that I give. So yeah I mean I wouldn't be
surprised if if you're right and that you know, he really doesn't
have much of a role to play in the final showdown.
I think if nothing else. I think he'll be the Catalyst
for solving a lot of the Mysteries that we still have
leftover. Yeah.
Yeah, I would I would be really fine with that because, you
know, For will barge is the only person that has lived in the,
you know, been in the upside down for a week and live to tell
the tale. So, absolutely, you know, we
need to learn something about it from his perspective because we
never really have so far on the show, which I think is a shame
then. Yeah.
By all means, please. Do that.
Get her brother's. If you're watching this podcast,
please do that. If you haven't checked it out,
there is the comic and its really good.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'm like on that note. I feel like the solution to like
this is about you, we're not put, all you guys are raising is
to me like and actually have talked with us about this on the
podcast, but is there some kind of not a flashback episode but
something where, you know, kind of like I like how they enter.
Whoa, more 11th back story this season we're like, she was in
the present but also in the past and I like the way they did
that. And so I'm kind of hoping for
something like that. Don't even like we've talked
about, you know, seeing a level And Escape, you know, see more
of will be upside down. And so I feel like that's a good
solution. I mean like if they're showing
it through flashbacks or like you have one of those scenes, I
love it when they do it. Well, like a character is about
to explain something and like cut to a flashback that way we
can see it visually. So that's interesting to us
without like standing there while I character expositions to
everybody else, because I feel like that's a lot of issued
other TV shows, so I'm kind of hoping for something like that.
Will we get that At backstory, like, a visually interesting way
that kind of fills us in. So, when we cut back to the
president's like, all right, now that we all understand and the
characters understand we can move forward.
Yeah, so that's also why I'm excited for that because I
really enjoyed when they have done flashbacks like that, I
think I think they do them. Well, Yeah.
Yeah. An 11th Powers.
Create the perfect opportunity to do that in an interesting
way? Yeah, absolutely.
Yes, I don't resent. So it's Jasmine.
Just mention briefly there about eleven Skype.
And this is something that we've we've talked about a lot, you
know, either on here or, you know, just, you know
conversation. So I wanted to ask you guys, is
opinion on it. What do you think was the
catalyst? Calls 11 to leave the lab part
of the Season 1 happenings. I don't know if we talked about
it on the podcast, but I think we might have talked about it
like together. Like don't like her final straw.
Was that the cat? Yeah, it's yeah, we're we're
chandelier killing guards. Yeah, like Brenner wanted her to
kill the cat and she refused and then wound up, you know, she was
getting punished or whatever and wellness, like I think that was
like kind of hurt. Tipping Point, like, I need to
get out. Well, also, I think she escapes
immediately after the demagoguing gets out, so it also
could have been a fear reaction because she touches the
demagogue and it sees her, and then as much as we can line up
that timeline, that's when the demo Gorgon kind of finds the
lab and they'll tear opens up and it gets out.
So, It might have also just been like hey II can't do that again.
Yeah, stop making me do this kind of thing because you can
like when you see her and in the lab and stuff, even in season
one you can tell she's not happy with anything.
So like between the cat and the and all of that, I think it was
just like she had just reached our final straw.
It was like, I need to piece like bye.
I don't know why I know this way out but I know I know it.
Yeah, that's fine. Like that bogus.
But this one I actually buy because if you would like if you
invited of trauma, especially someone who's very, very young
like I could that does make sense to me as like a trauma
response. I got a true trauma response.
I was like, yeah, I really hope we're getting a flashback to
that because you know, whatever that Catalyst was, you know, I
mean if it was fear, if it was just you here.
Final straw what I'm trying to figure out after.
What did she divorce? I'm like, how did she make you
for practice or somewhere in her mind?
She knew how to get out. Out.
But since they caught one and eleven down there like when
several years prior obviously they would have amped up
security. So I want to know how she got
from the lab into the basement to get outside.
Like I want to see that because I'm like how did she do that?
Since very like Runner and the staff would have been informed
of. This is the thing, this is a way
out and she's done it before or almost got out that way.
So that's what I want to know. I have a A sneaking suspicion
that that's going to get hand waved by the Duffer's.
I like I agree with you. I would really love to know
exactly how that went down. Yeah, so true, like they saw
them down there in the past. They would have amped up,
security. There would have been like
guards to keep that. Like, you can't nobody like as a
restricted area and then she just goes out the same way.
Yeah, I like I hope you're not going to have way back and I'm
like well if they are going to hand wave it, I like I'm not
sure what the point of bringing that up was because like, it
wasn't like, we all have burning question.
What caused her to leave the lab?
What? Cause we get out that way.
There wasn't a burning question, I don't think anybody had so I
hope we are going to dive back into that because mother thought
was well, like back when all the other kids were at the lab, it
was easier for her to kind of not sneak out.
But like there's more distractions available To kind
of pull like a one over by the time right before season 1
start, she's the only kid their brothers.
The only original surviving member because everyone else in
the lab is dead. So all the staff from new or
they've retired. Like since we know that Kali
looks up like they look up the other guy that like you know
what I mean? Like everyone else is there
left, the lab or we can killed in the massacre at that point.
So all the other new people like they would be told this and they
would be told and Security. So I hope they're not going to
hand wave it just because that's something I really liked about
season 4 and I hope it pays off is.
There's a lot of things. Those are sort of like, father,
like romantic storyline. So I'm like, well, never thought
that was coming back. Didn't have a burning desire to
see that. Come back, not unhappy about it.
Happy about it actually. But like that wasn't a burning
question. We were left with after three
seasons so I thought that was an interesting way to take it.
You know what I mean to bring up these questions that like nobody
really had and be Like what if or hey we could bring this back
you know so I'm hoping I'm hoping they do come back that
stuff because I'm like if they if they don't and they just
brought it up when we didn't need to know.
Like it wasn't a burning question.
I think I will be disappointed. Honestly, I literally just had a
thought about this while we were talking about it.
She probably at least from a timeline perspective.
She probably escaped at the same time.
The demagoguing was doing his thing inside the lab and
murdering people at the beginning of the season.
Oh, and thought about that because it reminded me like I
feel like it what you see such a gorgon but today actually does
go into the lab I'd forgotten about that.
I know remember seeing in the void so she doesn't see it there
at the beginning but like that set off a big red alert across
the entire lab like you know the sirens wailing and everything.
All the staff is totally rambling.
Yeah. So that would have given her the
perfect opportunity to slip out. Okay.
Never let a good crisis go. To waste, right?
From The Boiler Room. I mean, you know from a boiler
room all the way to the edge of the woods beyond the fence.
That is a really a long way and I know, you know, she's a tiny
child but still that's that's a very very long way that's why
she was alone. When they, when they find the
scrap of like her gown I feel like it's either mr.
Clark or one of the deputies, doesn't someone comment on goes
really a kids are there. It's pretty small.
At Hoppers like depends how small the kid is.
Yeah. That's what made him think it
was will because we'll such a small small little guy.
Yeah. Yeah, although I love something
I really love about Hoppers of character and I'm excited to
kind of see this, you know, when he come back in season 5, but
like, even when it can be an ass, he's a really good cop.
And those moments when he's looking for, with the people
around him being like, Oh my God, like why?
Like, I know I chose to move back here but why is everyone
around me so like incompetent like oh my God, that is one of
my favorite things. And something I'm really excited
for season 5 is I think there's a lot of those moments where
Hoppers like, oh my God, this is the best we got.
I'm so excited to see the gang in the party all come together
in season five and now I feel like we're kind of past that to
be like all right if you're here you've earned your place here.
So let's just like get to work and be like you know that sounds
like a dumb idea but it could be possible.
So let's just let's just go with it and see if we can make this
work. I'm super excited for that.
Also think about season 11 of my favorite lines.
At season is when him and Joyce are talking and they're talking
about the drawing and she said, well, is it?
Is it good? Like is the art good.
And he's like, I don't know what the kids drawing and she shows
it to him and he goes have I been chasing the wrong kid this
whole time Scheels like one of the best moments of that season
for me is it's like yeah that's even better going back and
knowing like the relationship him 11.
Haven't be like nah man. You're chasing your daughter.
Yeah. Exactly, exactly.
And I've heard you mention on your podcast before that, you
know, that was one of the relationships that you think was
planned out from the beginning. And I agree just like her and
Mike's relationship, I think they definitely.
They knew they wanted to get the, you know, eleven and Hopper
together as father and daughter and her, and might be others,
you know, boyfriend girlfriend type and I think that's, you
know, Her and her daughter's relationship is like a very
beautiful relationship because, you know, he lost his daughter
to cancer and then he's gained a daughter of it, you know, under
very different circumstances than one would like.
But and it you took him a while to learn how to be a father to a
daughter of her age. But once, you know, he jailed
and me, he really gelled and, and You know, I know things are
going to be different in season 5, but I do hope we get more
Hopper 11 screen time next season.
Oh, we need to definitely they. Yeah, because even I mean, we
haven't really watched season 3 but like, I don't know why.
He was just, I just I want to see them.
I want to see them were together.
I want to see that that Dynamic play out a little bit more,
especially because of how affected 11 is all through
season 4. Yeah, over hopping hopping
around like Heartbreaking. Like the first couple episodes
like when she makes the diorama like, oh my God.
Y'all, oh yeah, I knew she was doomed when she said that.
I was like, yeah. And then just like that little
that reunions at the end of the last episode of Season 4 was it
was not long enough for you know everything that she had gone
through. I just I need I need more, I
need more, I need more daddy hop. / and an 11.
I just need it. So I'm sorry.
Go ahead. That's the sound that know like
like I love their Moment Like It's So subtle but I love their
moment when she's like, she's freaking out and crying.
She's like, I never stopped believing.
I kept the door open three inches because he was so like he
was, he was so freaking out about that last season and he's
just like I know it's okay. And I really like I was you
never wish someone to wind up in the situation hoppers in but as
a lot of people have commented on, I think it's Always him kind
of this has been such a horrible experience, like the worst thing
you could possibly go through, right?
Like we see a lot of horrible stuff but I think being tortured
and held in a Russian prison like the worst like one early is
one of the worst. And I think I love the kind of
we're I wasn't long enough but he came back with that moment of
kind of like it puts things into perspective, right?
Things that really bothered. You like the fact that your
daughter is dating. Or the fact, they will keep the
door open 3 inches, no longer matter where you just type that
And, yeah, I loved it. Yeah, like, I love, they give
you short, but like, I loved like, it's just the entire
demeanor changes. Like, it's okay, it's okay.
Even my green-eyed. Oh my God.
Waterworks and ya Sayyid, more, that and us some people
commented, we didn't off of, like the buyers Hopper, fit the
begin in Joyce's is take the Yeah, but we didn't stop and I
gotta get to, they had to get the ball rolling.
I get that. But I really hope to see more
kind of domestic moments in kind of Interest.
Are supremely action in season 5.
I didn't get just as interesting Dynamic, you know, between the
five of them. Like I'm just very interested to
see more of that for them. I think what we need to see we
need to see both Mike and Jonathan have their characters.
Fixed up from where they were in season 4.
We need like season 1 through 3, Mike and Jonathan to come back
so that we can have those relationships really play out on
screen because I feel like will stepped it.
Like even for his unsure as will is in everything.
He does, he stepped into the shoes of like being the Big
Brother 411 during that time. And we only got like a small
glimpse of it and Jonathan decided.
All right, well I'm gonna go get high and hang out with our Kyle
from now on like yeah. Actor.
Also is like, my friend said, comment on this, but, like, in
previous Seasons, like, Jonathan was like actively pursuing
something, right? Yeah, that was taken.
That was his entire character. Okay.
And then season for comes along and he's we don't seem to take a
single for a lot of the eat holds, the camera at a point and
he's just not getting high with Argyle and like I've watched
people said this to me, but they're like Mike and we'll the
ones. Taking the lead when they're on
the road trip, which is, it's a, because they're like, what 14
15, right? It's like a giant Jonathan.
I like I feel like he's done. He's done.
He started doing the work to be a better friend and I'm like
your heart is goes out to will. He's trying so hard here, he's
being everything to everybody. Putting everybody like setting
himself on fire to keep everybody else warm poor guy and
yeah Mike, pull your head out of your ass like, Just come on,
dude. Well deserves better.
He does well deserves better. Yeah.
Okay. 100% like, I'm not opposed to beiler, but I think here's my
dream for season 5, one of them like he normally, does he
deserve better but I'd really love to see will you know, find
love with another student like another student at this, their
high school or something because I like to me Like either Mike
doesn't love him back or if he does he's been a real ass about
it. Like he's being really like he
deserves better. You know I mean like well
deserve somebody I love well and he deserves somebody.
I think he was like 100% into him like Robin and Victor into
each other like I want that for him, you know?
Like he just yeah like I mean not even not even on like the
beiler sense but just said, like in the Friendship way like will
deserves to have a better friend than my Mike was to him and and
season for just so just overall, like, be nice.
The whole birthday thing. The birthday thing like it was
his birthday roller gate was his birthday and nobody said, happy
birthday to will. It was all just I'm gonna smash
this girl in the face with the roller skate.
Wow, I might actually be a continuity error, but if it is,
it's a really funny one. Yeah, I don't know.
I'm divided on whether that's a continuity error or not, but
regardless, like, I think I agree.
Like, it's like from 11 from 11 perspective, I get where she's
coming from, right? Like she's obviously dealing
with some trauma, and it's not been living Society in her.
And you don't see much of it, but like her and will clearly
have this special bond. Right?
And so, I get her but like Lindy's pissed at me because
it's like, you, you were killing.
Not dealing with this type of trauma.
I mean, He has trauma as well but like not the same and it's
like you know you you we grew up in the same town like you know,
I'm going to be miserable all day.
If I'm third-wheeling, like you didn't even hug me at the
airport, like and like I feel like it wasn't love with Mike.
He wouldn't be putting up with his shit, you know what I mean?
Oh, you like Lucas? Yeah.
We'll also have a roller skate. Let's just have a little theory
about maybe why Mike is so indifferent to will especially
in season four. I think it's because he knows
that will is gay and probably He knows that will, you know, has
feelings for him and I think I'm not saying that Mike is like
homophobic because I mean there's been no real evidence to
point to that. I think really what it is is
Mike either a doesn't know how to, you know, respond to that or
be. He doesn't want well to get the
wrong idea of, you know, I wish Deprecated, those feelings.
And I think that's why, you know, like you said you didn't
hug him at the airport I think. Because it was very, very
awkward and he didn't even like, you know, give him a clap on the
back or anything. It was like, Hey, you know, and
I think it's because, you know, Mike knows Wills gay and knows
that will has feelings for him, and I don't think he wants.
I don't think he wants will to be hurt.
I need one especially himself because I'm a do you think he
sees Wills his best friend? And I think what might really
wants will understand is like, you know, will Evans my
girlfriend? I love a lot of them.
We can still be best buds, but we can't be, you know, you know,
in a relationship or anything and I don't want to hurt your
feelings by telling you that. So it's best.
If I, you know, act like an awkward jerk.
Jerk. So that's my little theory on
that. I think that's what drives me
nuts about season for Mike is season 1 and 2.
Mike is a more emotionally intelligent character than the
exact same kid. Two years later which I would
like to thank is somehow intentional but to me it just it
like to me it feels like them saying we don't like we've kind
of forgotten, how Mike Act like as a character, you know what I
mean? Like, I feel like that that same
token that same season 1, Mike that we saw.
If he had those same ideas, he wouldn't choose to be a jerk to
will. He would choose to be like a
supportive friend who has like trouble navigating this like,
not not to not to Poopoo your theory because I'm actually,
like, I kind of agree with you, but like, that's why I feel like
that character is kind of Done Dirty this season like Like
yeah, yeah and him and Jonathan just their actions.
Don't match the characters we've been watching.
Yeah, I'm not that like I'm not that concerned about like if Joe
doesn't care doesn't recover, I think I'm fine with that but I
agree about Mike that like and I really hope because I don't know
if you guys were thinking this but like when we wouldn't want
you hadn't come out yet I was expecting we're going to get to
Volume 2 and we're going to find what's really going on with
Jonathan because obviously it's like what everything but I'm
like, okay, did he not get into Emerson or NYU?
Did he not did he knock it into a.apply?
Like I thought we were going to find that out.
We didn't And then like there was going to be a review.
I thought he said he never applied but I don't know, I
might be wrong. Yeah, what he said, unless, I'm
mistaken. I think, like, he tells our gal,
he's applied to Memorial Community College, but he does
it. He says, I'm not going to
Emerson, but it doesn't actually say if he applied or not.
So, I'm like, did he my friends have been doing and why did he
never lie? No, I was just I was just
saying. Yeah, he never he I was agreeing
with you like he never States whether or not he actually
applied there and didn't get in or what he just says.
He's not he's not going no going.
Yeah yeah. So I was like I was expecting to
get an answer that we did. So my God they've clearly got a
good dress that and all of my friends, I said the middle
Harper shows up he's gonna take one look at Jonathan and know
that something is up. He's gonna like he's going to be
better off. So, all three of them because
he's been a cop is whole life, right?
I like he's gonna take one. Look at them, we all wet, he's
gonna take one. Look at those kids and be like,
I mean, they're not kids anymore, but you know, like you
said, take one. Look at me, like, what the hell?
And I think some of the bothered me to think about a lot of
people, the end of season 4. Is that like a we skipped two
days and be it's so short of their like that.
If I don't want his epic or because we skip that time, it's
cut off. So you're like the things.
I think we're all expecting to kind of happen.
Didn't happen there. Yeah, and I was hoping for that
too and like I agree like I would I was I was also almost a
spending Bill to come out officially I was expecting.
You know, us to get some more clarity on.
What the hell is? Mike?
Pratt Mike's problem, was this season?
Like yes, and just with the two days thing, there's a lot that
needs I feel like needs to get brought up, like, how did they
get out of the upside down? When Are they it was the Rope
was cut. Dustin clearly broke his leg
trying to, like, get back in after getting out.
Like you can't tell me that. They all just, like, formed a
human chain and climbed out the sit like, you know, plus plus
the. The cracks started at each
portal and when I started they cut that one dude in half so
like was safe to go through those portals.
I'm assuming from the other side.
So like, how did they get out that there?
They have a lot of explaining to do and that to day time frame.
And if it's just like glossed over or just like mentioned,
that's something that I'm going to be really mad about because I
feel like that that's a that'll be a major plot hole if it's
just like oh yeah. And we'll we did this to get out
of the upside down. No, I need to know details.
Like how did you do this? This go back, show us.
Show us how that happened? Yeah, I'm also hoping for
flashbacks there, I thought of a friend of mine had a theory that
since they were in the Creole house, on the other side, or
part of them were like, I don't know how Dustin would've gone
back great, but they're like, oh, did they go back through one
of the openings in the quail house since there's forward to
kind of hang onto without a little bit safer or something?
Or they've you something in the quill house and I'm like, okay I
can kind of see that but then I'm like The where's that?
He's body. Did they leave it down there?
That seem weird. But that's not what we.
So I am very familiar with the cast Theory but that's not the
theory that we will. The you that I am going with
anymore. It's my own mind and Zach's own
little concoction. Theory that we made up, but it
kind of makes sense. But regardless of that, like,
right, I don't think that Dustin would have been okay with just
leaving his new best bud, Eddie's body in the upside down
to just, like be there and life for the back for the back.
There's, there's just, I need some flashbacks for those two
days for clothes. Yeah.
And on top of that, like I got that of that season, everyone.
Trusts me, Ali and I'm like, there's Mike Noah and he died.
Oh my God, at about it. They were friends.
Didn't know what he's like, his hair out to match his right.
I feel like you would have been upset.
So like I don't remember watching.
I remember watching volume. Think that that part of volume
to and thinking, like, is this a dream sequence?
Everybody seems really happy. Like what happened?
That they like, all forget what happens, like, did they lose
their memory? Are we missing something?
Why is dust in the only one who gives the only one that looks
sad? He's crying and And no one else
Honestly though dream sequence I had the same thought but that's
not, why would it opens and like Karen wheeler is like holding
the box and bringing Holly and her to Holly's inside and Ted
saying something about a like a, but the news and she goes and
she goes to hand the box to Nancy and Robin and Steve.
For their, I had this sudden realization, I was like, wait,
is this? And we fast forward until like
the fall is Nancy. Going off to college is Steve
going with her like Is that what we're seeing here?
That was my thought because I'm like, oh, everyone's kind of
happy smiley. She's her mom.
Sending her a box and then like the van pulled up.
And I'm like, what we like is very abrupt.
Yeah. Yes.
And like, I don't, I feel like, I don't know another, they've
got stuff, obviously, trying to set up but I like I feel like
that would have been not that. I want them to skip all the way
to the fall, but I feel like we're really missing something
because I feel Like that would have made more sense in a way.
Then we skip two days. And in everyone's suddenly, very
happy. I mean, I guess that they're
happy to have side to survive, like, certain death.
But that's not like, that's a new experience for them.
Like, yeah. Like the pizza van crew, it
makes sense for them to be happy as far as they know.
They say, hey, but like exactly, right.
They should have come back to like, some Grim faces being
like. You guys don't know what went
down, like, Like it's yeah, yeah.
Like I get that they're happy when they show up because they
hadn't been able to get ahold of them, but like they're very
happy. And then when they ask about
like, oh, like Lucas at the hospital is like, oh, like what
happened? I like, that's what everyone's
faces fall. Yeah.
So I'm like, yeah, what happened?
You were there, 11? You know what happened?
yeah, but like yeah. I concur, I can craft so, um, If
people were wondering why why all these questions are about
season 1 season 2? It's because the hellfire club
Collective podcast right now. They have not placed at the time
of this recording. Not made it to season 3 or
season for for coverage. So I thought I would just trim
it down to the seasons that they have covered, which is 1 and 2.
And this is probably like, like one of the biggest questions
that I have that I haven't. Seen a lot of others, you know,
question and that is, why do you think Terry wanted 11 to find
eight? Also, do you think we'll ever
see Terry again? Okay.
Okay, I'll do so I'm going to be real here cuz I don't think this
is gonna. I don't think we're going to see
Terry again. I think Terry wanted 11 to find
eight because the Duffer's had plans for a spin-off show.
I don't think eight was ever intended to play a larger role
in stranger things. Although, her powers would be
incredibly useful in season 5 and if they're going to make an
attempt to redeem that character, they got to do it in
season 5 but I sincerely believe after watching that episode of
the show that was not an episode of stranger.
Things that they specifically wrote it that way.
So that they could set up another show.
Yeah. Yeah.
Because that whole that whole episode is basically a proof of
concept for new characters for a different story.
Yeah, yeah. It doesn't even feel like an
episode of stranger things like the filming is different shot.
Music. It's shot different.
That's the music is different. Everything about it.
It doesn't feel like you're watching the same show.
Now the Terry stuff I feel like it gives 11 some closure.
Oh absolutely. Um, which is important for Har
but I agree with you like I don't I think that her having 11
find Callie was just so that they could introduce this
character as a possibility for oh, well if she's you know, if
this is received well called a backdoor pilot, they there's a
backdoor pilot and it's this is received.
Well, we can go forward with this and she wasn't no and I
think the ultimate like Like nail in the coffin for that is
season for because one of the things we do on our podcast is
will take interstitial episodes where we'll talk about the
stranger things comic books because the Duffer's have come
out and said, like all of the comic book, all the comic books
are Cannon to the story unless we decide they are not.
And at this point, there's only two comic books that they've D
canonized and they're the ones that deal with kids from the
program that were not you know, 8 or 11 or 1.
And they did that by writing their own story for those for
those other kids in season for those Comics do make a brief tie
back to Cali and show us that like, hey, this all exist in the
same universe and by going back and season, four and saying,
okay, those stories are no longer Canon.
All of the kids have the same Powers Callie was an outlier,
they've basically said, like we are not coming back to this.
We have thrown this idea on The Cutting Room floor and it's just
going to stay where it is. Yeah I agree I definitely think
that the whole Kelly stuff was like you said a backdoor pilot.
I think if it if it went that one the case then they would
have had you know either 11 just interact with Callie or they
would have had Callie come look for 11 without all these those
other characters and I agree, it definitely does not feel like a
stranger things episodes. That's why I don't really like
to watch it. I'll be honest with you if it
weren't for 11 being in the episode, I probably wouldn't,
you know, watch it. But um I would like to see Terry
Ives least one last time only because I think her story is so
interesting and I feel like we we don't know, we still don't
know a lot about her and her backstory and especially her all
of her time at the lab. I always like to know, you know,
in season two, when 11 looks through those boxes and Hoppers
cabin any funds, she finds that picture of Brenner and Terry
walking together. I always wondered, like, you
know, what were they doing, like, why, why were they
pictured like that together and who took that picture like, was
it, you know, a government agency, or was that on?
Like, video can't like security cam footage.
You just little things like that.
That I'm interested in that. I would like to see again, but
like I said, I don't know if we will really get that unless we
see Terry and some flashbacks, I said that because if you know
the theory holds true that integral is elevens biological
father. Then we probably would see some
very flashbacks. So yeah.
That's I mean I will today with with Terry and Brenner.
There are they are releasing like a Brenner comic kind of
like his origin story so that might, that might be in there.
I mean, I know it's not it's not the show but it could be like a
cool tie in. I'm excited to read that because
I would like to know how does Brenner always been like Was he
always this like cold parted like growths person or was he
like you know, was he more human?
What happened to him? Why did he become this way?
I've thought that many times myself.
I also have another theory about his past but we don't have
enough time to discuss maybe maybe one day, you know, come
over here and discuss that weight because I feel like it's
a very compelling Theory and if it were to ever make its way in
the show, which is highly doubtful.
That would just be awesome. So, how do you think the series
will heck? I know that's a very broad
question, but I always love to ask our guests about this just
because I like to hear your opinions forward.
We're on. We're definitely on the it
started with will. It's going to end with Will
train. Yeah, in a way in a way I
definitely think that there is going to be you know, 11 and
Vecna are going to have a show of a have a showdown.
So we've got a few different theories that we think if they
pan out could lead to pretty strong like confrontations in
the show because we I mean, we have Devin Hester Eddie Theory.
We've talked about the possibility of Max becoming a
vessel for vecna. Hmm, since there's nothing in
there right now. Yeah.
And I think so like Elle's big thing is going to be trying to
get Max back But I think Becca's going to use what's left of Max
against her. I'm sure.
That'll end with Max coming back.
I really don't think that deaf ears are going to leave her in
the lurch like that. I do not think Jonathan is going
to make it to the end. Yeah.
Neither neither one of us think that Jonathan's going to get
that. Jonathan is probably going to
like his. His big brother is going to come
out again and he's gonna die. Protecting will in one.
One way or another. I think Steve's gonna go for the
big sacrifice and Jonathan's going to stop him and do it
himself. Yeah.
And then everybody and then
everybody is just going to go to therapy for forever.
What else didn't talk about? How we talked about?
So I have we talked about it. I mean, as far as How It Ends, I
don't think there's going to be too much.
I don't think there's anything going to be anything crazy in
the resolution of the show. I mean, I'm sorry not to them
going to, I would like to know it since since season four ended
with all of those Gates opening like will they have reached
other places? Is it just going to be like
Central April to Hawkins or will it have like spread because I
have I have read some things about there being a Time jump in
and season 5. So like is it just going to fold
as I feel like it's like a such a massive event that happened.
Like all these essential wheelies giant holes in the
earth, they have to like Fisher and crack and spread and keep
expanding. So is it going to have spread
throughout the world and bring? Become like this.
Like massive thing that they have to try and and contain or
is it just going to be, you know, all of Hong Kong, are we
going to contain the end of the show to Hawkins?
Or is it going to be like a robot like everywhere?
That's yeah that's a question. I don't think we have an answer
to. Yeah.
I honestly don't know which where they're going to go with
what direction they going. I'm sure this is going to be a
badass in season 5 I'm sure. Yeah it is Dustin.
Dustin is going to go full Eddie.
Yeah. He's gonna be a little metal
kid. I could see that for him that
would be super cool. I could see that I could see
that from. Definitely one of my favorite
ones. I season 4 is and you were
wearing that weird Out t-shirt which I thought was Brave.
Or somebody suffer. Like they talk about to the pop
culture reference. I was like, all right back in
that wasn't cool back. Then that wasn't like a cool
thing to do now. It is but not back then.
Yeah, it's so weird for me like parsley because I started
playing D&D like in my 20s and I think about like somebody had an
issue with like I'm a nerd. I'm a huge nerd.
This is the nerdiest thing I've ever done and I love it, but
like people thought this was satanic.
It's just a bunch of P. It's just a bunch of nerds.
It Around the table together like eating corn chips drinking
soda and telling stories like this was what the hell yeah.
Certain things so that was like nothing to do being like, this
is bad for our children and that they did the same thing, right?
It was like, this is the hill we're dying on.
Apparently, like, Look at the equipment of like thinking
there's Satanism and like, magic, the Gathering.
Like, you know, it's, you know, I'd say there's a stronger
argument for magic because the artwork is pretty, pretty
intense, sometimes. I just want to convincing ending
like I just want an ending that convinces me, that it was all
worth it and that this was the right ending for the show.
I have you no other specifics that I want to see you know in
the last like 20 to 30 minutes of of you know, the series
finale. Yeah.
I mean like another deaf Brothers, like just convinced
me, you know, you say that, you know how the stick The Landing
well then you know, prove it, you know, yes.
Yeah. Yeah.
Right. Tell me that you actually do a
lot on the table. Yeah.
And like I feel like as a fan we just have to go in saying you
know what, I don't want everything.
I just want to be satisfied. Yeah yeah and something I want
you to know, people have to speak about who's going to die
in biloba and because I'm not really into death speculation
because everybody was all over Steve.
And I get that there was a billboard and whatever.
Then I was like We lost her. Well, she mentioned Steve.
I think originally, Steve was supposed to die in season 1.
Yeah, he does. He want.
I originally wanted him to and then like no joke, here is too
much of a delight. Yeah.
It's like you know Jason was what Steve, you know, was
supposed to be in season 1 I could never have seen have seen
Joe carry. Pull like, do that?
That's that's not no, no no couldn't pull it off.
He's just too likeable. Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know that. That is that, that, that was the
originally had, like, wanted Steve to be like, like, like,
who's gonna be a sin? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
My two favorite people. Yeah, we have we have very
strong opinions on Billy and yeah.
Poor Dad, the Nuance, then they were expecting.
And I'm like, wow, like he's so much better as the Steve we have
now than being Jason or Billy, I think.
Yeah. I mean that's exactly what
happened with that, he too. Like he brought something that
character they didn't expect and they were like, oh, we have to
keep him around like this. No, this is too good.
Yeah, they re read a lot of his stuff during the during the
pandemic. Yeah.
And like, I She ate that I really do.
Like if you have an actor who really killing it and just fits
into your show so well and don't waste the potential.
Yeah. Yeah.
No. 100% agree. Like, I've there's a lot of
other shows I was like a huge huge fan of and something that's
bothered me in the last few years is like as though she's
got towards the end. Like you'd be all in for a
storyline and actually have chemistry and you'd be like, oh
this is great and they want to go another way.
And I never try to read articles to understand and the answer
turns out to be. Well, we decided we were going
with this As last summer. So rather than following where
the actors kind of performance in chemistry lead, we went with
something we decided last summer and it shows it's so obvious
when they do that because you're like why are you going with this
when you could be going with that?
And I really appreciate. This is a show that's like they
have a plan but then they look at what they're giving like they
look what the actors are bringing to it and they adjust
because That's what you should do.
Like if, you know, like, I think something that makes us sure.
So great is, I mean, the original plan was these
characters were supposed to be like, one dimensional or best
two-dimensional, like stereotypes from 80s, movies and
TV and the actors just brought so much more nuanced.
They're like, well, that was the plan, but we could, we could
grow, we could expand this because we're getting great
stuff here and they evolved past that and I'm like, that's that's
so cool. There goes well, makes the show
so interesting or part of what made you, so angry.
Thing for me. Anyway, is yeah, watching The
Evolution. They're creating a show steeped
in D&D and they're treating the writing process as a game of
D&D. If someone is going, well, if
you, if your players are really, if they're doing something, you
didn't write out for them, it didn't expect you react to that,
you don't just follow your plan and railroad it, you integrate
it, and it's something they've always done a.
They've done an incredible job with on this show.
Yeah, yeah. So sorry.
So one more question for get you guys out of here and you don't
really even have to like really explain this, but I just want to
Zach. I want to hear you say this on
the show because I heard it on your show and I really loved it.
And I want you to you create a reiterate, this for ham radio
audience. So you mentioned on the hill,
Fire Club collected that Brenner and season 1 was training 11 to
kill Henry / 1 / Patna. So you could, you know you just
reiterate your theory for the people.
Well, they make faces and it's okay.
So I think this Theory even the even though I am a staunch
believer that season one is for the most part wholly,
unconnected until like from the overall story until they started
season 2. I think this Theory still holds
up, I think that Brenner's intention was to train 11 to
kill one and I think if we go back to the Means in season one,
we restrain her to use her powers.
He wants her to murder that cat. He wants her to be less human.
He's disappointed when she can't, he is molding her to be a
weapon that he can point and fire in whatever Direction.
He needs to, he's constantly putting her in situations that
are going to dehumanize her. And in my opinion, that's how
you like that? That's the intention to
dehumanize. Her to make her something that
he can point at vecna and go. All right, kill this guy.
I like, I have to clean up loose ends.
You are going to do what I tell you to do.
You're powerful enough to do it. Finish the job you started.
When you were a little kid, Yeah and it's it's a very compelling
Theory and it just speaks to you know just who Brenner is like he
takes no responsibility for his actions whatsoever because it's
lightweight 11 said and in episode 8 of season 4 I believe
and she said you know, you let this man who murdered his family
when he was just a child, you let him near children.
Knowing despite having a chip in his neck, you knowing what he
was capable of my, you know, that was absolutely on Brenner.
Like, he should have never had Henry around those kids, you
know, despite You know, him having control over him.
Like yeah, it speaks to his arrogance.
Well yeah of course I can handle this situation nothing's going
to happen because I'm in charge which is shit.
Yeah. Would you mind no telling
everyone where they can find you on the socials and where they
can find your podcast and you know, went what days do you
really sure you're episodes. I so social media wise right now
we just have Instagram and I run that and it's at Hawkins
Hellfire Collective same as our our podcast and then we are
we're pretty much available. On every podcast, like platform.
Like wherever you listen to them or on Spotify were on Apple, I
don't know. We're on the, we're on the big
ones and then our we release new episodes, every Sunday at 10
a.m. So give us a listen, if you want
to hear us rant and Rave about every episode of stranger thing.
Sure to be entertaining. Yeah.
That's up on Instagram. We'd love to talk to anybody.
Listening. Yeah yeah.
You know a few we say this on our podcast, like if you are on
Instagram and you have a particular Theory or if you
listen to an episode and you want to tell us your thoughts,
like send us a message. A message, we're always open to,
you know, having having conversations with you know,
fans of the podcast fans of the show because it's really fun.
Like this was really fun for us because we just, we talk about
it, just to each other. So getting to talk about it with
you know, another Stranger things podcast and then you
know, other stranger things fans.
It was really, really cool. Yeah, absolutely.
Well, we love having you and yeah, you should definitely
check out there. Show again, you will not be
disappointed, especially if you were at least and this takes on
Eddie and even if you like I'm glad he's dead.
They did a good job, you will still want to listen to their
book. Guess cuz they just might
convince you. I I try my hardest.
Hey, if that's what we're going to be known for I'm in.
Yeah. All right, so thank everyone for
joining Jasmine and I am Zach and devyn on today's episode.
Again, you check out that condemning on Instagram and
they're available on all platforms and will have all
their links linked in today's episode description.
So for now it's me and Jasmine we're signing off over and out.