I'm Ashley, and I'm Jasmine. And you're tuned into ham, radio
stranger things podcast. It's the Cadillac and welcome
back. Everyone to yet another episode
of ham radio, trying to the his podcast.
On today's episode, we will be continuing our journey into the
script for chapter for season 4. Chapter 7, the massacre Hopkins,
lab, our script analysis series. And today, part 3, we will be
discussing elevens Journey back to that fateful day, in
September of 1979, which forever changed, only her life, or the
lab. But, you know, you can make the
argument Hawkins and, and everything that we've
experienced thus far will be talking about the upside down
being stuck in 1983. And of course, We talking about
some discrepancies between the script and the on-screen product
Parts, 1 and 2 of this series are currently available wherever
you listen to your favorite podcast.
So if you want to go ahead and listen to those before you
listen to part three. So you can be all caught up more
than welcome to do that. So before we actually begin our
discussion today, our part three discussion, Jasmine is going to
tell you where you can find us on social media and where you
can listen to the podcast. If I say, Instagram at ham radio
dot media on Twitter, at ham through on YouTube at hammered
and media or add ham radio 1983, that's our handle.
We also have a Discord server that we started.
The link will be in the show notes and description for the
episode. If you want to talk about
something in particular or you have a fan Theory you'd like
Share, or you have a question, you will take it was no
questions, the past, you can email us at hair and radio and
Malika at gmail.com actually has a fanfic about other things
College Years on a 03, which there will also be a link to in
the show notes. And the broadcast is available
on all major podcasting platforms.
Google Apple Spotify, Stitcher excetera, please consider
leaving us a review and rate in. We've logged totally to go stuff
coming up so please follow us on our social keep up with the
Podcast and all of our new content and thank you Jasmine.
Yes, so the Discord, we, we just got that up running about a
month ago now. Well, it's about time of this
recording and we've had some really good responses.
We've, there's, you know, some friends of the podcast and jump
down there to to share. And if especially if you if you
guys like the music and finger things and you want to talk
about that like that's been Big big discussion on the Discord as
light, there's no problem about that or if you just want to come
on the Discord and you know just you talk about really whatever.
I mean your family your friends. But yeah you know just come even
if you are a beiler fan you can still come and join us on the
Discord. All we ask is that you do not
spam the Discord with beiler discussion, it's okay.
If you drop a line every now and get, but don't Data.
Don't hit it up all the time. If you do that, we'll probably
call vecna on you because we can't, we can't allow a lot of
that. But moving on to the topic at
hand today, which is, as I just mentioned earlier, the, our
part, three of our script breakdown.
But before we get really get into that Jasmine.
And I've decided for this series, in particular, to
include an Question for each break down that we do and it
kind of revolves around something in the in the pages of
the script that we will be discussing.
And then what we're going to do is we're just going to pose the
question at the beginning of the discussion and then once we get
done discussing, you know, the pages of the script we have to
cover, then we will attempt our give our best attempt.
To answer the essential question and we'll probably try to keep
up, put it in the description of the episode so that you guys can
send us your thoughts on the EQ as well.
So for part three is essential question, was Dustin's,
hypothesis regarding the vecna / mind, flayer connection, correct
or incorrect. So hold on to that thought.
Then try your best as we go along to think of, you know,
what your answer is? Maybe and Jasmine and I will do
the same. So wait to the you know, the end
of the episode today here - Jasmine's thoughts.
Yeah, well the question so we begin the script right down with
11 is is now going back. To September 8 1979 the day of
the massacre at all because lat Brenner's, finally gotten her to
calm down and to do this. And so we open with we're back
in time through the Nita tank. And this is after 11 gets
bullied and kind of pushed around and knocked unconscious.
The older lab kids and she's in the infirmary and it's really
funny because dr. Brenner himself, probably not an
MD is examining her and is you know, just one need a little
little flash on her eyes to make sure your eyes are dilated and
all that good stuff. And he asks, her any more
headaches? Nausea this morning.
She states her head. No, they asked her about her
memory. Can you remember happen?
And she still says no and then he says, perhaps someone else to
fill in the gaps for you or us. Yes.
And so they walk off into the training room and then dr.
Brenner, as in the script, as in as it was on screen, He has all
the kids lined up and there's the orderlies there including
the friendly orderi orderly who we don't yet know much about
him. You know he's standing there and
this is when Brenner asks loving to step forward and then you
know, Brenner's bring up what happened and he's like she
claims to have no memory of this but I know someone in this room
you know did it and they're all just saying there, they don't
want to say anything because they're scared and and all this
is like, verbatim. All the dialogue is verbatim in
the script as it is in the actual scene itself.
Then we get to a part where one of the numbers who we know is
number two, he He is not called number two in the script.
He is called a for, in the script.
So, Jasmine, I'm going to talk a little bit about that real
quick. Got to talk about.
You know why we think? Maybe they changed his name from
number four to number two. Jasmine would you like to begin?
Sure. Yeah that was something that I I
noticed you as being one of the biggest changes like you're
right that most esteemed. The is very similar to the
script and I think that has to do with something I know.
It's what we've been, you know, comparing the script to final
product is things about the Lord, or the lab are almost
identical. Where's the biggest changes?
We see is dialogue in the Hawkins or go Russia.
Plot in terms of interpersonal stuff with the characters which
makes sense because we know that they have like a set plan in a
set Bible about the lore would include staff about the lab.
So to be a makes sense that that's going to be verbatim
because that that has to be particular in order to get to a
certain point where's everything else can change its more
chemistry the actors or someone has a good idea or they play
they're like well that doesn't sound very good.
Let's try it again. It's more natural that dialogue
versus the lab which is not natural on purpose.
Because yeah, I noticed that too and I'm I'm curious as to what
the fact that it was the number of the the kid responsible got
change. Aged.
Yeah. Like it's Yeah, it's for
descriptive to in the final product.
I don't know if that means anything to me, like, I don't
know if it means, you know that there's something to do with the
number 4 because it's probably know, both two and four died in
the massacre. So I don't know if that was
significant or I guess I could significant, but I'm not sure
what the significance of it is. Do you know what I mean?
What do you, what are your thoughts on that?
Yeah, I agree. I don't really know.
I mean this is gonna sound kinda bad but it's not.
Why is if it really matters now because they both lost their
lives tragically but I kind of thought maybe when I first read
the script and saw that I thought, well, maybe they were
trying to you know, connect it as as the fourth season and
there were split looking for different you know, there's of
the world so to speak nautical. But regardless of if he's Two or
four. I find it very interesting that
especially considering that he is number two in the show is how
much of an age Gap. There is between him.
And number one, you know, like like number one is at least at
least 10 years older than this kid.
Like, I think it's 20 or 30 by that point, like he.
Yeah, yeah. Which I didn't know that but
you're right. The fact that he's a wonder if
that's what they were trying to show us.
Like the fact that it took Brunner like a decade or more to
take what Henry had and create the program.
Yeah, like maybe they were trying to show that, it took
them like it took him and his like people like 10 or 15 or 20
years to get to a point where You know, where they there's
number two. It also makes me wonder if I
guess obviously a mask the massacre.
But if there were other kids, they tried an experiment on the
died. You know what I mean?
There were other numbers before that to be came to like I don't
believe they're only using a number once.
Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like they probably
start over a bunch of times or they have place that kid, and we
also don't know the exact timeline of when Terry was
there. Like, obviously she got me
there, she'll become Love it and because she's kidnapped but like
was, you know, was you know, he built the program around Henry
did a to start airing before that and then they build the
program around Henry or like where they kept trying to
perfect? What was transferring, what
Henry had and then character was going on at the same time.
They're both part of the same program.
You know was a fact that there's such an age Gap?
Is that they had you know people who are willing participants
like Terry. Went there voluntarily.
You know what I mean? Like is that That part of the
transition, is it okay? Well, it took them 10 years to
get to this point like all and also for what we understand like
Terry throw a wrench into their plans, every other kid they were
able to abduct either. Their family was you know had
died or they didn't fight the same way.
Terry, did they make a real point of that in season one of
the thing that really sets Terry and Jordan top or a part is
they're willing to fight they're willing to push for they don't
care. They look insane.
And that was not the case with the other families.
Either they didn't push as hard or they put deceased so I wonder
if that's what they're trying to show us that like or maybe
they're trying to give themselves more leaving with the
timeline there, you know I mean that that kid is to instead of 4
then they're saying okay well this was there's an age Gap here
and maybe that play into do when we get into the final
understanding of, what the more what that timeline is.
But yeah, I make Us to me that there would be a big gap there.
Because it took, I mean, we see how powerful vecna is in season
4, how powerful he was, when he was a child.
But the act of transferring that the would take a while.
So I'm curious, if that means, we're going to get more about
that timeline or more about those intervening years.
The finalists, you think? We've got to you would think
right? Like there's just so much gaps.
There's so many gaps there and and to me they I mean, you're
going to need to fill in those when you were you You know, have
the vinyl season. Not just because it's the final
season that's like your last opportunity because, you know,
vecna this guy in his story is now becoming so big and just so
important to the narrative. Like you can't just, you know,
we can't just leave it at just 11's, you know, side of things.
We, I feel like we need to see his side of things as well.
What happened to? To him during those years prior
to this event because there's no doubt that that was you know,
that was a big chunk of his life because, you know he Brenner
took him when he was probably what like 12 or 13.
And now he's an adult By 1979. I hope we, you know, we get some
answers on that and to that there is An action sequence in
this script that comes before this, where we introduced to
number 41, number two, about the orderly and it says, quote as
Brenner's speaks L clocks the friendly orderly standing nearby
something seems off about him. He averts his gaze from her as
Brenner continues to dress his address, his quote, unquote,
children in quote and Yeah. Yeah that is definitely what
happens on screen and every time I watch that scene, he looks
like. I mean his eyes like the first
time I watched it. I was like, I feel like this man
is back because I saw his eyes really, it's like two seconds
and then it jumps back to Brenner.
Across more as like feet, like fear, because we'd seen the
scene where he'd like, burner had shocked him, right?
And so, to me, it was more like, oh, he's like, he's fearful like
he's not, he's not doing it because he's fearful that's more
when it came across to me. But I think I think that speaks
to just what a great actor Jamie Campbell Bower is that he walks
that line so well, right up into the reveal where even if you
clock the some internal clock that he was back now.
Now, early on, it's still a huge twist even if you clocked part
of it, because it's so good when you kind of walk that time where
you're like, hey Tina makes you doubt yourself.
Yeah. Yeah, it's very compelling, it
really is because you know, knowing what we know now.
Whenever I do re watches I always I always say, I mean he's
about to go off, like I just you know, knowing now like he's
about to go off and it still it does make me wonder still why
you know why he killed all those children?
I mean, you know, knowing what he wanted to do.
Like you can use them, they all have powers just like you and
it's weird that like, he wants hell to join him, but he kills
everybody out, he's coming brother in that regard.
Like what am I said? Look, I hope your granite were
finally going to get an explanation on that because I
think the big question is the kind of ghost.
The series was like, OK. What is the obsession with L?
Because like Brenner put and helicopters with, I would call
it gets all the way to Chicago and that Place the implied
exhalation to me anyway, is that, you know, 11 is burners
actual biological Challenger. He's more, you know, kind of
obsessed with her, her favors her and I think like, you were
mentioning earlier, you know, I think that's kind of to me.
That's the implication as to why he's kind of favors here in the
other kids are jealous because they don't get it.
They're like what's so special about this girl?
She's no better than the rest of us or she's slower.
And some things to me that That's part of it.
But also I feel like, maybe he knew that like, the power she
had already me, like, he was, but not everything Henry said
was wrong. Don't mean like, what?
That's what makes it so compelling, is that?
So everybody says 2L before, it's revealed that he's back now
is That, you know, what are you saying?
Is correct? Like he's wrong but so is
brighter. And so like that's something I
really hope they explore in the pharmacies and I think they will
that, you know, what is it about L because you're white, like,
why would you like the future kills?
He does seem to be like it is minor Mercy killings, right?
He's these people are suffering. I'm relieving them of their
suffering. I'm going to make a new world,
you know, angel of death, but you're right.
Why kill a bunch of kids are super A Powers, especially when,
you know, about those little shits are evil, and you can
like, you know, like you can use that, right?
Although part of me, kind of Wonder, does he wanted L?
Stay in the Supply Closet. It was really mad when he did
come out and part of it was. Okay.
I'm gonna he's better. I can't control them.
I can't raise them. I can't like I can't do this
because he'd worked with them enough but L was different.
He saw someone he could manipulate a raised kind of way
better had. And I think what surprised This
is him and also surprised, brother.
I think they both have the same problem because that's the
person. Like there were two practically
would have raised him. After that point raised him and
quote to there, they both have this thing where they don't
expect. I think they expect, they'll
develop more pliable in terms of being able to control her than
she actually is. And when push comes to shove, he
has this innate sense of right and wrong, that they don't have.
And psychologically, something I come back to his because we know
that her mother, like we see those memories of her mother
being there for her, and loving her, and wanting her from birth
and coming to rescue her. Is that like the been studies on
this? Now, that basically, the kind of
love and affection you received at a very young age and when you
are A baby that continues to, you know, resonate and become
part of you as you grow older. I mean of course you can
overcome those things but the gravity comes from that loving
base, I think definitely has an impact and I think that's
something that makes her a great character.
Is you see that? Like that's that's what
surprises, the people around, who think they can control her
and I think that's why she flourishes so greatly when she
brought into, you know, protection and the buyers dagger
and she's surrounded by your friends and people who
understand how powerful she is, who share that sense of right
and wrong with her. So I yeah, I think that's
interesting and I hope we kind of get into that because yeah,
why kill a bunch of kids that have superpowers?
If you're going to take over the world, what a guy?
I want to know his his reasoning there.
No, I, I think I think if, and when they explain the nature of
their powers next season and kind of where they originated
and what exactly how exactly does they're able to do what
they are able to do. I think could definitely explain
a lot because, you know, it's like dr.
Brenner kind of touched on this season is it's a lot.
Mental in terms of her abilities but it's one part of the show.
I still don't understand and I probably never will, but that's
okay. So, yeah, so the rest of that
scene in The Script is like, basically the same as on-screen
Brenner shocks, this child who begs for mercy and it's Have
seen my even even though you know like this kid is a jerk and
did really awful stuff to 11 and threatened to kill her.
It's really it really is tough to watch because it's a child
and enforcing those tiny kids as well to to watch this.
Aswell ones are so scared. Yeah, yeah, it's yeah.
It's definitely. It's definitely tough tough to
watch for sure. Watch and like you're worried
that I feel like most of the scene is verbatim.
One thing I did notice is we comment on this last time but
Brenner is much Kinder in the script that he is with 11.
Then he is in the final product like something I do versus when
they're in the infirmary, in the script, he's much Kinder and he
said, you know, keep your eyes open but in the final version he
says, try not to Blink and it's a much more detached performance
and I think I think retina has to go to Matthew Modine on that
one which I think. I think makes perfect Landing
said that they were trying to because this is his final Arc,
as far as we know, right? So what I understood that, our
fathers are trying to kind of human.
I'm a bit as trying to get back. More in is kind of not as back
for a bit more in his, our guests.
But I ultimately, I think Matthew Modine made the right
choice there with his portrayal because I think because you have
Owens kaivalya as the counterbalance.
So, Owens does very much A humanized capital kind of like
oh my God, what has he done? In contrast you a better who is
you know cold and calculating to The Bitter End and I think
because of that that feels like a very collaborative is and I
don't think I can just randomly rolled up as sad.
Was like I'm doing it this way. That seems to me like a very
collaborative decision where he's like he was playing it that
way so I can can I try this and the Decker brothers and all the
accident said that, you know, it's offical a process and
always very open to that which I think is great.
And I think what's particularly great about that is in his home
moments because Did it performance and because in his
mind, you can tell he's done, nothing, wrong?
Right up to the end, even that moment when l call on the fact
of what he did to her mother, and he completely justifies it
and tries to drug her. So in those last moments where
he lays down, he want else forgiveness and she doesn't give
it to him. That is so much more satisfying.
I think is a viewer because you know, this is a guy who you
know, no mercy. Welcome back to the very end.
End. And now he wants to live his
forgiveness and you're like, yeah, like No, like, don't give
it to him and I saw clone combat that.
It's so rare to Media to see women or girls have scenes or
arcs where it's acknowledge that, you know, you're
acknowledging or forgiving for what happened.
But not, that doesn't make it okay.
Like that sense of like I can forgive, you forgive myself
piece, but that doesn't make what you did okay?
Or no, I'm not giving you that forgiveness because what you did
was not okay. That is so rare.
Love that 11 got to have that moment.
She really felt learned in part because of the performance, I
also noticed that in the scripture says a about.
I don't, we try that sentence in the Scripture.
It says, there's like noticeable bruising on L, but in this scene
there, isn't it sound like they've maybe jump forward more
time. Back in the scripture supposed
to be like, right after it happened versus is a little
while later or maybe. They just tried it on Millie
Bobby Brown and like, others doesn't look great on screen.
But I also noticed that, like, there's a bunch of stuff in the
script about the other numbers. The other kids shooting a
life-threatening glances, but in the actual scene, we see,
everyone's just kind of looking straight ahead, which I feel
like made more sense because then it's like it makes the
whole shock of the thing, more impactful.
Like if they're shooting threatening Lance's.
It's like, all right. Well you had that coming like
you you very obviously did it and now you're looking at her in
a threatening manner because I Do that.
If it makes it all the more shocking because like, they
think, oh, brother has no idea. And, as we learned in season 4,
he's got cameras in every room. He's got hidden cameras.
He's got all the stuff especially, because in the
script Brennan, says to call of the kid right away.
But in the script it's implied and I really loved it.
And storytelling when they get something spelling out,
something in the script, but then you imply it on screen, I
think that, you know, show instead of tell is, you know, is
still in Important. And I think that's also what the
order of the scene is slightly changed, like the the scene
where they're all standing in the room with the colouring, and
I think that's why they did it. So that you, you get that
implied and it builds that tension.
What words do you spell the whole thing out that tension
doesn't build in the same way, so I thought that was really
interesting. Yeah, so did I, it was again,
it's a very tough scene to watch.
And sometimes I had sometimes, I'll just skip it because I
can't, I can't watch it because, you know, I know I've, I've
heard on some podcasts talking about Brenner this season in him
in the flashbacks of, you know, earlier on, you know, he seemed
like they made him seem Like a good man who, you know, probably
misunderstood, who after this event became bad, but he was
good before. And this scene right here, just
goes to show, you know, he's what he is doing is bad.
I mean, I do and he's never been that guy.
I don't wanna hear that. I'm like, what are we watching
the same because from day one from season one, his character
that is consistent all the way through.
Through like, oh yeah. And and the scene that gets
referenced in that is in episode one of season 4, when Brenner is
with 10, like this is in the first 10 minutes of the episode
and, you know, he's laughing and stuff and we don't, you know,
we're not really used to seeing Brenner like that.
And I mean, you know, I I do think that very, very deep down
in his own twisted. This way, you know, Brenner, you
know, Carrie had a had some sort of affection for these children.
I'm not going to say that that Martin burner hates children and
so I will say it was kind of kind of nice to see a little bit
of, you know, a little bit of a happy moment from Brenner.
But but still I mean, The fact that this is still this child is
in the lab, doing these experiments and stuff and
everything that Brenner's doing, he's still doing, you know,
immoral things. And we can't you know we can't
discount that now. I do think that what happened
After this event, I do think that it really changed for are
from from bad to worse. You know, I mean, and that's
kind of how we got in the burner of today and even when we see
him in season 4 in the in the present day you kind of start to
think, I mean after season one, you know, did he, did he change
any? You know, what's his life been
like and And when we get to chapter 8 and he definitely, you
know, goes off the rails and goes on hinge and slightly well,
now he's still the same Martin. Brenner has he always was and he
he's never going to let 11 just leave.
Even if he took her back to Hawkins, they she did the deed,
you know, he was going to take her back.
I mean, that there's no I probably would have chipped her
as well like he did Henry. I mean it's almost no way what
he was trying to. I was like, yeah.
Yeah, I think you're right. I think he was the massacre
hardened him so that any kind of like softness or affection, you
could should have went away. You don't see any of that post
Massacre, except there is the odd moment I think in season 4.
But as we learned at the like I said and that's what I ate that.
We learn that. That is all been an act.
He's not only putting on 4L, but he's putting it on for Owens and
everyone else in the lab it is. Act to get what he wants and
Owens doesn't realize he's being played.
Like he knows that like he knows what his unhinged.
Like, we see him comment on this so he's like he knows he's
unhinged, he knows the guys, probably playing him to Summits
and I'm sure but he's, the guy said retarded.
He's so good at getting people to believe it.
He's so good at it and he convinces owns, the only way,
and I'm sure it won't look into other options.
And but this is the only thing they can find and like you Can
you see that have a literal? He starts to realize like as
there at the lab and hell isn't getting better like, you know, a
time he's like he starts to look at better and be like, have I
just completely destroyed like this poor kids life and her
family in danger again and compromise my principles my
balls. My family safety for absolutely
nothing like is he just doing this just screw with her like if
I've been completely played here and you really see that so like
No, I heard he went from bad for whoever to death part of him and
yeah, he was never with the whole who ruined his love me.
You'll be good. This wouldn't be present.
And I was like, I wouldn't you met you made of a creature that
from Predator? Freaking.
No. He said that but he didn't mean
it. I'm like, oh like I'm weird to
see that the conversation between Owens brother.
And number one, tourist and Hopper.
And She's in five because you know you'd never know what
really happened on that car ride back, you know.
He gives them a sanitized version and you know, they know
that to be yes there's maybe they don't but they're so
excited to get back to their kids that they were like what I
kind of my kind of driven to that was like, alright they know
he's lying but they're like I want to get back to my kids.
So we're going to deal with this later but yeah, and boy and like
that coming up. Now that that Hoppers been
filled in about something, because, you know, I mean, I
know this is, you know, two episodes from this one, but it
has to be said, you know, when he and 11 reunite, he's not
surprised at all by her hair. He doesn't say, you know, what
happened to your hair? Why did you shave it?
You know, he just, they just go. Oh, your hair's just like mine,
you know, very touching scene but also very telling because So
it's just some things but there's definitely some bones
left out as my point, there's definitely stuff.
I was locked out. Yeah, I mean, I think it is that
there are saving that conversation for next season
because it's just like, you know, the Apparently 11 and
Mike, didn't talk anything about him, confessing his love for her
and that long car ride either, which I Feast leave.
But anywho so After a very brutal scene to watch, we get
someone of a softer lighter scene.
We go back to Hawkins in the upside down with Steve Robin,
Nancy, and Eddie, and they are headed towards the wheeler house
because they the bats have circled around the other gate.
They need a way to get out. They can't get out.
Out with the bats are still there.
So what do they need? They need weapons to be able to
kill the bats and get rid of them.
And so the police station can't walk.
Always the police station because that's too far.
But Nancy was like, oh, you know what?
I have guns. Let's go to my house where we
can retrieve those guns, but before they get to the wheeler
house, Eddie and Steve have a Talk or chitchat.
And again it's basically verbatim you know Steve thanks
Eddie for saving him and it is like yeah that was real Aussie.
Move you pulled back there and Steve courses like Ozzy and he
was like yeah you know, took a bite out of that bat and Steve
just he still doesn't get it. Apparently he is not Big
pop-culture guy, which is surprising to me that way.
But anyway, like biting the head off of a well-known now, but I
feel like back then, like, if you were a Metalhead, you would
know that, but I don't know other people would like, it
would have been in the pig when it happened.
But like like, you know, is Steve reading the newspaper, you
know what I mean? Like, I think it's not as well,
may not have been as well known outside of metalhead circles
back then. I don't know what kind of my
take on it. Yeah, I mean, I totally totally
agree. I can't really see.
See Steve being into metal but I don't know.
I kind of do see him as the type of watch MTV though.
You know. Yeah we don't give you would not
have aired that there's no way. Oh yeah back then they wouldn't
have now. I mean yeah.
Yeah. Then because back then I was
strictly music videos back. Then it was a nipple and not
what it is today. Yeah.
Um and so then, you know, they have this very touching
conversation, actually about Dustin and I thought was very
sweet because you know it's kind of like Steve is being reassured
that you know, even though Dustin has found this new friend
Eddie, he's still really looks up to Steve.
And I thought that was really cool of Eddie to bring that up,
like hey man, you know, don't be jealous.
Like you know, Dustin still, he's still crazy about you, man.
And then we get Eddie because it's basically a monologue and
itself, you know, talking about, you know, Robin and Nancy and
how, you know, they jumped right in after Steve and he was just
scared. But there is a line in the
script that is different from on-screen and that is when Eddie
says, As quote I just couldn't accept that Steve Harrington was
actually a good dude. Rich parents popular girls love
him not a douche. No way, no way.
And and then of course he does get the line about his own
personal months and Doctrine but did the first part of that is
not in the in the show. At least not when I watched it
which made its point. The one about Steve Harrington
was actually good dude. Rich parents popular girls, love
them now, that's okay. I don't remember that.
Okay. Sorry, folks.
There's a part though, there's a part that was so he's a Jasmine.
I would get her back. Whatever it takes, whatever it
takes is not in there. Gotcha, but it's slightly
different, but that is in there, as a stancy shipper, I can
attest. The fact that that isn't there,
not you, I should have, just let you do that run down, because I
knew that you probably know that we had because I definitely the
most notes about this section. I have many things to say.
So yes, And and this is, you know, one of those things where
they're in the upside down. And this is one thing that I
kind of wish they would have done the season and hopefully
next season, you know, the do this.
But I don't really know if by then, it'll have really even be
important, but I wish they would have just had just, you know,
maybe 30 seconds of them just walking in silence in the
upside. Down so that we as the audience
could listen, you know, I mean so that we could of heard, you
know, the sounds of this place because in this scene you can
faintly hear in the distance. What sounds like Moaning, you
know, kind of a little Roar type of thing, and I believe in
season one, when Nancy is in the upside down.
And then we're Hopper and Joyce, you're in there looking for
Will, and correct me if I'm wrong on this Jasmine.
But you don't hear anything like that then.
But now, You know, you do when they're in it and season four.
And that's why I kind of kind of wish they would have done that
in hindsight. I feel like there's a good
reason why they didn't because they don't really want us to to,
to have any semblance at this point in time of You know any
army of monsters or beast because you know that comes to
light. Well you know Nancy talks about
that in the fall in the episode but yeah I just for my own
personal enjoyment I would have loved to have them just walk
around for a few seconds not talking so that we could you
know just hear the sounds of the upside.
Down its arms. Yeah, they could have had, like,
a few, even like a minute or half a minute before heading and
Steve started talking where you could have heard it more.
Yeah, I agree. Because like, now to the
students, come here, I started analyzing it.
I've heard people commenting. And so now, when I rewatch, I
hear things I didn't hear before.
But I think it's supposed to be faint in the background because
you're right. I think in the early Seasons,
the only sounds you really here is like I think creaking about
stuff around them and then you hear like Joyce when like
Jonathan Nancy and Steve are fighting with a gorgon, she
failed his boards, you can hear the voices like you can't with
Dustin this season but I don't think you hear the other thing
although, The Vines aren't there in the previous.
Well, the vines are there but the like they're not quite as
advanced. It's not a kind of the dance
stage of decomp. We see it in in season 4 and it
sounds like the creatures and the place was involved since
then. So I think you're right.
I think it's they're trying to subtly show.
The progression would be what I think they're doing but yeah
that would have been that would have been cool.
Yeah. So then another earthquake
happens in Robin. There was out the line of s of
my least favorite lists earthquakes, which Robin I think
you should probably get used to that for a home for a little
while because it's going to happen again and then they
finally get through the woods and Nancy, apparently knows to
some familiar through the woods and it's the wheeler House.
She sees the world house and she says, come on, you know, and so
they walk all the way past off, power lines through the upside
down to the the wheeler house. And then We get some more
imagery of the power lines and the Decay on them.
Super cool shot and then we here Dustin save Steve do you copy
Nancy Robin and we're back in the wheeler house but this time
in the right side up and Dustin is of course in the bathroom
pretending to use the bathroom. He's sitting on an only you
could get in the TS black toilet on his little radio saying we
have been, we've been collared by the wall.
I repeat, we have been collared by the law and then when no one
answers he flushes and you know, says the s word and at the that
line, well he doesn't say that directly in the script but it is
on the screen and I was thought was kind of funny that he liked
I like that touch. They added of him saying that
because it's like, you know, he was in there actually using the
bathroom when he really wasn't. And then we cut to him, going
through the living room past. Holly, who is playing with a
Lite-Brite foreshadowing, I think yes.
And then there's, you know, the officers police officers, you're
talking to the parents. and Lucas, he joins Lucas and the
kitchen where they have discussion about Watergate and
Then of course, Erica comes in and it's like, what are you guys
talking about? And one of the my favorite lines
from Erica about Gunsmoke and then about snow your guts
cowpuncher which is just that the same makes me laugh.
Like every time it's so funny and Then are Coastline bolts on
what you found on your bed, just like, what under your bed. and,
Lucas just like really freaked out because he does not want
Dustin today. When it's under his bed, which,
you know, is really, we never, we don't know the answer to that
and maybe we never will. But obviously, it's probably
Playboy magazines or, you know, something gross like that.
See. So then you know after much
coercion from Erica, Lucas is fine.
Like hey you know what? I'll tell you we think the
Killer is a dark wizard for the upside down, you know, we've
been looking for him but he's in the also damn can't reach him
but you know now we know there's a gate lovers like you know we
just have to get there. and to the gate, you know, so that we
can you know, I'll get the back NE but you know, the police are
kind of in their way and we can't You never actually do
anything about it now because they won't let us leave.
And then he's like, you know, if you do you think anyone about
this goes? Mom and dad and Tina.
And he does not like his not want Tina.
Who was? I think Erica's friend, I think.
That was. Erica's friend in season 2.
I believe that's what we were fresh when she was first
mentioned. And then he's like, you know,
I'm he threatens his like, I'm gonna smother you in your sleep
and Erica still like okay, whatever.
And Lucas repeats himself. And this is all basically
verbatim. dialogue between the script and on the screen, but
then, you know, you're because like, you know, why is there an
open gate and lovers late, and she thinks and I really love You
know, how how they included this.
Because Erica thinks it's the Russians, the commies and she
calls them and you look is like, no the commies.
They didn't, you know, they're not because this time, you know,
they have as far as Lucas, you know, with our the same thing as
like, as far as we know, you know, the Russians Are they have
no connection with this fact, that guy at all, which we still
don't know. You know, they really do or not.
It's Still Still Remains unclear.
We didn't get an answer full answer to that in season 4, but
yeah, Luke is like now I'm confident do it and they were
who did and You know that she's like in every just opened up you
know for fun and here because Lucas is like you have no idea
what you're talking about and then Lucas, excuse me.
Dustin brings up. You know, when I really like you
know this is quite he brings up is You know, she says she
doesn't but she brings up an essential essential question and
this is where Jasmine. I got our essential question for
this episode from from the man himself Dustin, you know, he's
like how did water Gabe you know to Gates have been opened so far
1 by 11 which was the mother gate and 1983 one by the
Russians. it's in season 3 and we know it's not the Russians or
11 this time and then he you know immediately in the script
it get it says light bulb like he gets no gets an idea and then
doesn't start spacing and then this is, this is verbatim in the
script, is in those on screen, doesn't says there's one thing
we've never understood which is why, you know, why is Jack back
to killing people, you know what's his motive for killing
teens? It's always seemed too random to
Prozac on top of that. How does the Mind flayer figure
into all this? Maybe this is it, this is the
answer. And, of course, you know, Lucas
is like, what's the answer and then, of course, Karen comes in
and is offering one of the officers, something to drink, so
they have to leave. And so, Lucas and does the exit
and go to Paul way and Erica joins them.
And then, you know, doesn't it's continuing to give his
hypothesis and he's like any questions, how to 11 open the
mother gate and Luke is like, she made contact with a Again
and doesn't said socket contact and lose like just like that now
when he cast his spell and so they go on hypothesizing and
dozens light, you know what, if he's not simply killing, what if
he's making a powerful psychic connection with his victims as a
connection. So powerful that it can tear up
a whole and fabric kind of space and Lucas, of course.
You know, answers the question, he's opening Gates and then why
what? And looks like to take over the
world. And then doesn't says it, who do
we know who wants to take over the world?
And Lucas says the Mind. Flayer and then the sand gets
that big theory of. You know, what?
If the demagoguery was just a foot soldier and what if that
knows his five-star general, and this is a part Where many
people. There's there's two sides.
One side thinks. Okay, Dustin was wrong this
time. He's usually the one who's,
right? The one that we look to for
answers and then there's the other half who say, well he's
right you know, meghna the Mind flayer is controlling veteran
and not the other way around, and we're going to see that and
season 5 and it's going to be You know, a big plot twist of
this particle monster that vecna himself shaped into a spider
like being or form rather. It's controlling things.
So Jasmine, do you? You have anything to say about
that? What I've just mentioned, Yeah,
I think for me I think Justin's idea is a good one, but I think
from what we see in the flashbacks that investment is,
you know, talking to hell and showing things to Nancy, I
wouldn't say I wouldn't say is wrong with these half right
because they think that the Mind flayer is sentient and able to
control things but we learn as the audience is that vecna
created the Mind flayer. So I don't think something you
couldn't could be controlling you but Other people want to
talk about how Victor Cruz said, we had one month of Peace in
that has we know something happened that one month dark.
So it's he talked about how demon who was, you know, taking
residents in their home. If this demon Spirit thing Is
part of the Dust particles that created them a part of the
upside down, if that's all part and parcel of one thing.
I think it is it could be possible that that thing is
influencing the kinetic energy to do what he's doing and has
for that one month mark. But I do that, that specific
amount that I get to take in the forward Market because it's
behind you created. But I don't think sentient on
its own, the miners doing that because the monsters we know
exactly created it's impossible. The demon smoke monster particle
thing is in charge and manipulating Henry.
It has been since that day. Yes.
Lutely. But to that sort of thing that
makes us in wrong. I just think it means he doesn't
have all the information and I think it's either reverted like
got rid of the big head onto her in charge and he's created the
Mind player and the line player works very well though.
I'm not into the monthly or sentient though because from
what we've now. No.
I'm like I think it's just a tool that vecna's using.
I think that was kind of part of the reveal.
Either that, or it's all part. And parcel of this thing that's
in control of everything including vecna, because I don't
like it either. One of the other, I don't think
it's the, The Twist where it's like, oh yeah, the mine players
control, like sentient on its own, is controlling back.
Now, just based on what we've seen, that doesn't make sense to
me unless it's part of something larger on its own.
But that's kind of where this kind of worker I fall on that.
I'm going to save my answer for that until we get to the end.
But not because I don't have anything to say but because you
know, I think it's just best. You don't say my answer for the
N. That's right, folks, making you
wait getting worse. But I mean yeah if you
definitely want to skip everything else and just go to
the end of today's episode of my answer.
That's okay because it's going to look like we got a bunch of
plays anyway, so it's good. Yeah, she have to win.
It's a win-win. And like I said, this is the
part. I have the most notes on.
So do you want me to kind of get into that or Is there anything
else that you want to kind of address in terms of the question
of the episode before I kind of get into my extensive notes on
the scene? We're talking about the next
scene of Nancy and Company, correct?
Well, my name's start from the beginning of like when they wind
up in the upside down in, like, because it's into the into the,
where they go into the right side out, I kind of have it all
as one thing, like the upside down like the upside out of the
Wheelhouse, in Birds up in the upset.
I have all of my notes together. Gotcha, gotcha.
I just want to say real quick before we move on to that.
Erica says another fine line. You know, that was, you know,
she asked for them. To be kind and Rewind which is
definitely not me definitely speaking for the audience there
because it when I first watched it was quite a bit to take in,
so I just wanted to throw that out there so Jasmine you can
continue to your points. I love the Be Kind, Rewind as a
90° 80s or 90s kid Be Kind Rewind kids.
These days we'll never know the The Blingo Blingo.
But is that how that was? You get the VHS with Blockbuster
and the last person who had and did not reward and you're like
now I have to rewrite this yeah it's got to go back today or
you're gonna get fleas. You get fined and like like I
have to quit you're like hey Todd you're trying to do it your
mom's like we had to go I don't like we're why did the tape
pieces? Well done or what the take comes
out and sometimes it can't go back inaudible.
Sometimes if you get lucky it could have gone back in.
But most of the time if it all came out you might as well just
go and buy a new one. No, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
So there's a different parts of these genes that are verbatim,
is that she was talking about. I've noticed there's a bunch of,
I think little changes that will probably either down the day or
just kind of, you know, kind of, you know, adding cross checking
things to see and as needed. But there are a couple of major
changes. I think the to that's took out
two stuck out to me, was adding schemes conversation and then
the scene where Nancy See Robert and Eddie are in her room in the
upside down and do some of the that ties into the war.
So I'll be sure to hear your thoughts on that.
Ashley. But to start off with something,
I noticed was Robin starts the scene in the upside down, which
is not in the script, so she starts the scene by asking if
they could have tried a road or something less creepy and answer
me assures her. So I noticed that they kind of
beefed up, the interactions would be Nancy and Robin in the
final product where you see much more of Friendship.
And I'm kind of getting to know each other and building that
Rapport. You also have all more scenes
where Robin is might want balls and taking that control or
leading the scene. Which I think either naturally
came out or I think, you know, they said they kind of play to
the performances, the actors give them.
So I think part of that was the place where you're like, oh, we
need to kind of give more at my ahok more to kind of work with
here, you know. So I thought that was
interesting and a good change kind of how they elevated Max
this season. You know, when she didn't have
as large of a role in the, the previous Seasons.
There's a lot of descriptions in this scene.
I really, really love the first is as they walked Steve sidles
up to Eddie and in a very awkward guy way.
I really love that that made me laugh.
Laugh. And it's, you know, you can tell
that the actors, you know, took that to heart.
I realized the line were the description where it says we can
tell. This means a lot to Steve, when
Eddie's talking to him about Dustin and how much the kid
worships in, as I said before, the dialog here is a lot less
formal more colloquial. What do you think?
Would have probably been the actors, which makes sense
because like the people writing, this stuff are significantly
older than the agency's characters of me and the older
than the actors. So I think it's always great
when you Your actors kind of be you know make it more
colloquial. Otherwise it sounds very stiff
and I love that they let the actors kind of play with it in
that way. Steve tells Eddie to give
himself a break which is not in the script so that might have
been what you were thinking of when you were like, oh that one
part isn't in the script. There are a few lines of don't
make it in there. Some other things I thought were
taking, this is a direction. The script that says Steve tries
to hide the fact that this means a lot to him when Eddie starts
talking about, you know, Nancy. She thinks and she is still in
love with him and, you know, her dad being was an unambiguous
sign of true love. But in this scene, it's very
obvious how much this means to Steve.
And I think that was a good choice because I'm trying to
hide it. I think you would have come
across, has always pretending like, he doesn't care and Steve
has never been that way about Nancy.
Not once so. I think that was the right way
to play it. I think Joe came is right, you
know, call there, you know. But I would get her back is in
both, but he has a follow-up line, saying, I would get her
back. Whether it takes is the script,
but not the scene. And I kind of feel like maybe
that's because you know that Eddie had made his point until I
felt like maybe that was like beating him over the head with
it which wasn't really necessary.
I mean his language I love but on a bigger sign of true love is
great but also a little bit cheesy and I saw people comment
on that so I feel like maybe they toned down other portions
of Is it because of that? Also, like again, this is, I
think this is Curtis the actors in this script Steve is
described as being flustered in this scene, but in the final
product, he's very seriously. Taking wedding is saying to
Heart, looking thoughtfully at Nancy and I think that was the
right call because Humane flustered at the Creole House
made sense. But in being cluster and that is
why I think man she's clearly still in love with you.
I mean that doesn't really make sense it man.
She's not saying it to him. It's Eddie this guy that he I
didn't know that well like he's just getting to know so I think
that was good cause I'm Jose Parks something that made me
laugh was in this room. Steve says goddamn instead of
Jesus on the earthquake hits but taking like Jesus becomes Eddie
his catchphrase the season. So I thought that was
interesting and I which makes me wonder if like obviously I
didn't like Jesus. Christ.
When the batch come at them if that just be a running joke or
if it has more to do with like how the actors would actually
swear in real life? Good one.
Yes. Wearing about something.
It's like if you're saying something you wouldn't normally
say it sounds really awkward so I love that that kind of became
Eddie's catchphrase and you see that continued after I wanted
your thoughts on this? I noticed that really epic shot.
We have when they come out of the woods towards them get our
house. I did not catch any of this.
First time through, but I noticed that when they go from
the tree line to the winner has the upside down, there's
something that looks like a shed or maybe a garage across from
the wheeler house, like in the grass, but there's nothing out,
except down the power lines and I went back and compared it and
I was like, wait a minute, there should be other houses around
the wheeler house there. Other houses like on the
cul-de-sac in the right side up but none of that is there in the
upside down. There's just this once Said
garage thing down, power lines and then the wheeler house and I
hadn't noticed that I'm like, that's got to be intentional.
But that has to be intentional because otherwise wanted to make
it look exactly the same. So I was really curious as to
what your thoughts were on. Why that is, why only the rear
housing is one shed? Like, what is that?
Yeah, I kind of thought maybe it was a production issue because
it's so dark that maybe you can't see everything.
And um you know one thing I noticed to this season in
general like whenever we went to the Wheelhouse like even in the
right side up, it's how big their yard once the season, like
something about it, look different than in previous
seasons and we know that Lucas is And my core neighbors.
But we don't know how far down from each other.
They live. We don't really know how far
apart they live from their houses are from other neighbors.
It's never been dressed. They never, I mean that was
that, you know, one scene and season one, but the van, but
this moves so fast you can't really, you know, tell a lot.
Yeah, I don't know. Again, it could have just been
like, production things. Or it could be intentional.
I have no idea. I wish I knew but that's the
only thing that I can come up with.
Yeah, I'm really curious about that because I re-watched it and
if it's not 0 because it's dark, but I re-watch it and I'm like,
no, these, their houses are not there.
We don't the cul-de-sac, but I'm like, the very least there
should be houses on either side of Nancy's because we never get
an indication that like it's a house on its own or that it's
out with the very end. You don't even like if you're at
the end of the concept called like a u shape, at the very
least they should have a neighbor even if there's a
really big like even if the yard is massive, Like I rewatched a
couple times and I'm like, yeah, these are their houses should be
there. So even if they're close to
neighbor is quite far, it's still a cul-de-sac.
If you can't be country, yard big, you know.
So I'm really curious if that's and I don't think it's
production because I would have liked those shots were had been
TDI anyway. So like, it would have been easy
for them to pop in the houses or even just the side of a house.
You know what I mean? So yeah, I'm really curious as
to what that was and it kind of to me, it kind of leads into
okay or only certain things, duplicate the upside down
because the theory that we've kind of been sold here is that
what was an exact replica but with vines and it's kind of
decaying but how accurate is that?
Because it was close to that epic flyover shot this season
and they chose not to. So I wonder if that would have
given too much way too expensive.
I don't know but I feel feel like they're like there's got to
be something there and it kind of demand leads back to if will
somehow influence the upside down when he was stuck there
like subconsciously or vector pulled something from his
memories. Like certain things are
obviously stand out and Will's mind like the wheeler house so
that's going to be really clearly defined but the other
houses around it probably wouldn't be because he's never
been in them. He doesn't know the people that
live there. So like if we're going off that
or like what that combined with what head and renew for the
time, he lived there only certain places you're going to
go to certain places would stand out to you at like 10 or 12.
So I wonder if that's what it is.
It's only place that stand out because we've only really Ali
seen the wheeler house and the buyers house and the quill house
and the wheelers. The buyers are places that you
know, of importance to will, he knows really well.
And the cross is important to Henry so I wouldn't be surprised
if we find out that all the other homes just want their
where, I guess we see the trailer park, but that's where
Chrissy died. So, do you know?
I mean like it's the only places that are connected to something,
not the other places. So for me, there's something
happened, when two people go in there like There's got to be,
there's got to be more to it than that.
Yeah. So I'm interested to see what
that is. One of the thing I noticed too
is just a bunch of notes in the part where they're in the right
side up at the wheeler house. It's a like, see appendix to or
see appendix whatever and I'm really curious as to what's in
those appendices. Because my sentence that I need
to kind of either like background information or notes
for the extra lines or like suggestions maybe for the other
actors. Yeah, you have.
I'm sorry. No.
I was going to say so the the appendix is like, you know, an
attachment. So it's like, you know, how in
the same like in the, in the show when You know, after Erica
says, you know, please Be Kind Rewind, and then Dustin starts
explaining then, you know, we Fade to the lights flickering
and then, you know, we Fade Into the scene of Nancy and everybody
else going to the Wheelhouse. So you know, you can hear dust
and like explaining, you know, stuffed Erica as you know, they
fade out of that scene. So you know, when I read through
the whole script, the appendices are like at the very end of the
script and Just that it just gives you that dialogue of what
Dustin was Dustin and Lucas were telling Erica.
And they were basically just explaining like everything, you
know that's happened as far in the show's pertains to a little
opening, the gate and stuff because Erica to my knowledge
doesn't know about any of that because you know, just as I just
read a few few moments ago, you know, she thought that The
Russians were opening the eight again you know, and they're like
no no that's not the Russians, you know, this time and so there
are kind of feeling her in so that was that's the where the
appendix comes into play. Yeah, that's what I was, kind of
wondering. That's what I kind of figured,
it was, but thank you for that useful explanation.
And I would love to see, originated through to the
appendices in this because like, I would like to see the lines of
the direction of the other actors were given especially the
officers in the parents because we hear pieces of their
dialogue, like the fact that mr. Sinclair asked Chief Paolo, they
need lawyers and he says no and obviously it's be faded.
Now there's more dialogue so like I like I like the fact that
like these people were given dialogue.
So they knew what to keep saying, even though they knew my
denoting as an appendix that like okay we're going to fade
out when you're saying this. So we're not going to hear most
of it but just in case it was the background of a scene or
when they chose to fade. But I think it's better than
just leaving your actors and being like, I don't know.
Talk about something like that, you know.
Yeah. That must that would be
challenging something else. I noticed is that in the script,
Dustin crosses through the TV room Room and sees how I play
with her light bright, but in the actual scene, he almost
bumped into her, in the kitchen holding the light, by which I
thought was a good, like, I felt like that was better
foreshadowing because it's like also that we would, like, kids
almost bumped into you or you almost bump into them, then felt
more natural. And I thought that was cute,
rather than him just walking past her.
I don't know if it would have been as direct folder
foreshadowing, and I also thought it was kind of A
continent like again, show don't Elledge it showed us a lot very
quickly, it showed that in the same way that like will
basically grew up at the wheeler house ever.
Everyone is so comfortable with Holly and she's so comfortable
them that like you don't have a guest over you, behave
differently. They're so comfortable with each
other that she's like like she's almost bumped into dust of their
multi poop State. Like he's a good person and she
was like, yeah, he just kind of keeps the motor in and that way
the 1i kids do and it's not It's not a rudeness it's just like
that's just how kids are going to go.
You know, when they're run, somebody that they're
comfortable with and like a lot of them about how he is unfazed,
occur parent her parents and everyone else's parents or in
like the living talking about like do we need lawyers?
Who could be arrested, Nancy's missing.
And like holidays on bothers. Just like this happens every
year. But I'm gonna just go play with
my life, bro. You don't get results.
Like don't worry. Don't worry.
She's fine, she's fine. She's but like, I feel like
she's just so, Climatized and there's more Nancy and Mike and
her then maybe her parents realized.
Yeah. Karen made that comment last
season. About, you know, I think it was
quick to the hospital. You have this fight in you that
I don't have. And we see that fight in Mike
and Nancy. But we also see like how I can
notice the trees were moving. She noticed will trying to reach
out to her. She's obviously, I think
brighter than people are giving her credit for and this kid is
unfazed where they're just like. Yeah.
This is what It happens here. I think she just knows and she
just kind of minding her own business.
I wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised if that is there some
kind of revealing the final season?
And where it's like, yeah, I've known the whole time, you know,
it's kind of biding my time over here my own business, but I love
that and this is a small thing, but I notice that Erica is
drinking Minute Maid and not grape juice.
Look at the script isn't, she's drinking grape juice and in the
scene is Minute Maid. And I'm assuming that's a
personal preference. I personally don't like grape
juice either. So it appears like nah.
I don't want I don't like grape juice.
I don't want to drink that or maybe that's just what they had.
If you could think I was thinking of you mentioned this
but what is the deal with Lucas and Tina?
Like why did he says like especially if you try to it
especially Tina and that's the same Tina from season three with
like I'm supposed to be, he discovered me, I'm so sorry,
Uncle Jack's party. Who the heck is Tina?
And like what is the deal between like it seems to imply
the like whatever Lucas order is better something to do with
Tina. Like who is Tina?
How old is Tina? What is this?
We should with Kida like that guy.
I think Tina is might be Erica's friend, where his friend?
Yeah. And could be a blabbermouth and
that's why Lucas doesn't want Erica to tell her but I also
thought, you know, maybe if Erika has a babysitter it could
be Tina. I don't know.
We've never seen Tina. She's only ever been mentioned.
Hopefully, we'll We'll see Tina next season, I want you to roll
up. I want, I want all these people.
They've been mentioning to suddenly just like I don't know
like Tina. What if she's a baby selection
tennis wanted to look it up for Holly or something, just like
it. Yeah, that would that would be
great. And I also think, you know, they
joked about not wanting to add to what even characters next
season. I think a great way to
accomplish, you know, not not explaining the cast two months
but Your story is, if you bring up characters, you've already
meant to your who've been in the background or appeared in
previous Seasons, you're not bringing in new characters, but
you are expanding. So I think that would be a great
solution because I've said this before and I'll say it again,
the only new character they need to, as a love interest for will,
there is no, there is no purpose to me to adding a random other
new character with what they've set up this time that wouldn't
just blow up the cast. And like, I don't think really
Serve a purpose. So I would really, really love
to see that and this is a change.
I really really liked. So in this scene Lucas says, you
know, do you copy and that's it. But in the actual scene we see,
he says, do you do you understand?
And he slides forward on his arm and says do you copy?
And I love that. Like, that's between him and
Erica is fantastic, and it perfectly.
Capture that sibling Dynamic? Yeah, just the the physical
acting between Caleb and then pre-owned that scene is just
awesome. Like it's so much fun.
Let's see. What is pretty much?
Identical. I learned from this group that,
that random officer that Karen's offering the soda to is Officer
Daniels. I was like, oh, okay, that guy
has a name. I feel like maybe more contacts
in the script of kind of got hooked back up, which makes
sense. Yeah.
But yeah, but that guy's name is over there and to be honest, the
first time through I thought that was one of the deputies.
I didn't clock that. It was a.
I thought that was it was only the two of them.
There, I can always other guys in the background, but I just I
didn't even clock them as a different person because that's
not the focus of the stay in the focus of the scene, is the kids
talking in the kitchen. There are going to be laughs was
so in the script, the line was Luke's deadline is saying that L
made contact with the devil G in the.
And I don't know if this was like a bluebird on Caleb part of
what this was, But in this, in the final scene has changed you,
she contacted the demagogue on which one are you watching?
I'm like, it makes it sound like she phoned him, it makes it
sound and called him. Yeah.
Like that feels like maybe he forgot the word and they just
and the Restless scene was good. So they just went with it.
Like yeah like that. Yes.
Take like in some other like Erica's line to this entirety or
pure gold. She's super hilarious.
But once it got me were holy shit, that was the
incomprehensible. and yes, you know, does he talks fast anyway
so that's also why, you know, yeah, that made me love what you
think she's to garden and she is like Yeah, or like lurkers line
as we Fade Out. So, what was that giant laser?
Like just her like over the fact like a background character to
establish loses home, life to being like so full of like
staffs and amazing hilarious lines like they really show her.
Yeah. Improv and her acting chops in
this and I love that. Yeah, and what I really like
about Erica, you know, only the same but just in this episode,
in general, you know, with her dialogue is She's basically the
audience and in this moment and that's like us going.
Well what was all that about? A lot of the you know that
happen please be quiet kind of rewind like this is all a lot to
take in and one time you know. So I really love you know, not
only how that was written but also how it was acted out on the
screen. Yeah, I totally agree and then
when we get back to the into the upside down, I don't sit Robbins
line about the made a slightly different.
I think it's better in the final version is more congenial, which
I love. This is a small thing.
But in this, when they go to Nancy's room in the shoes, the
in the shoes in the show, the final version.
The shoes are red in the front. This is a shoes are red.
But in the final scene there, right there, that was
interesting. And I don't know if that's
significant or if that's just they found they had whites used
on hand or if that look better or pop or ice cream or
something. I didn't Robbins, I basically
say the same thing but they're slightly different, you get more
colloquial. This is something.
I also noticed in the scene where Nancy and Steve talked in
the woods that the they kind of a short up.
They just the timeline. So Holly is B5 in the script.
But six in the final version I think that just somebody went in
and we counted as if you know, there had an issue with Will's
birthday cough, cough. They really should have counted
for the entire script or, you know, had Winona can look at it.
But likewise I think of the script Steve says that either,
you know, they broke up three years ago and I think in the
final version it's too. So like they adjusted the The
timeline to make that line up. I think they they were a bit off
when they were writing kind of also noticed it like in that
scene and he grabs the cue cards first, but not in the script,
she grabs of later the flashbacks with Steve are in the
final version of the script, which I think is good.
Because like as a Big Stan, see that I've made Lee was like, oh
my God, but if that's not your ship, that's not your ride or
die, I get that people. In the audience might have been
like Like wait, what is this have to do with anything?
Like what? What's with the cue card?
So, I like that they connected that for for the audience.
I don't know that. Always pain do that, it wasn't
in the script because the actors don't need like, that's an
editing note. So maybe that's why.
I something I thought was interesting in terms of major
changes was the final version calls more attention to Stephen
energies relationship. Then the script like this, in
the script, it's kind of incidental, but in the final
version, we see it's much more prominent.
It's much more of a focal point in that scene as viewers were
really articulate as drawn to it.
And I think that that's because, you know, as you're trying to do
set up for The Following season, I think there was a lot of
really good work done for this season where, you know, like I
said it's a show for smart people there, expect you to get
it. They're not going to hold your
hand, they're basically kind of showing this what they want to
direct our attention to do in terms of the editing and what
them flashbacks and what they're showing us.
What do you think was interesting?
Because I said this is my last trip so we did but that in the
script you know, Nancy's T-bird, like, you know, 1% idea, then
the others following words in the final version, they are much
more of a team. They're reading this together
and they really played into the chemistry, those actors have and
be like, okay, this is where we're going, this is what we
want to call your attention to. And so once they started like,
you know, you know, like London and filming the set of our,
okay, we need to move with this because that's going to create a
better record of Becker seeing. Yeah, and it's kind of funny
because this saying this the saying about always is where we
learned that the upside down stuck in 1983 but this scene and
the scene that comes way after it, which is the Henry curls
monologue, which we're definitely going to get too
soon. I'm really excited about that.
But it did the both of those scenes are very different from
this. Script to the screen like
they're the dialogue and everything.
It for the most part is is different.
And for this scene in particular, I actually like the
on-screen version a lot better than this one because the
on-screen, you know, really grabs you, it really grabs your
attention of hey like where'd not on the same timeline like
it's really weird. You know that there Rules are
parallel, but they're not moving together in terms of time and
space. And but also another thing that
I really noticed while Nancy and them were walking through the
house and got to her room in this scene and she's picking up
everything. And I just noticed, you know how
interesting it is that even though they're in the upside
down in this, This apparently it's, you know, been copied from
the natural world, it's everything.
So tangible as though they were in the right side up and I found
that very, very interesting and I hope that is explained next
season, because, you know, if it's just, if this was from
credit from, someone's memory or whatever, you know, how is it
there? Everything's Of tangible.
And that's, it's it's very interesting to me.
And to be honest with you, You know what?
I'll First Watch the saying. Well not really first wash it
but over time I kind of thought You know, one of the upside down
is not actually stuck. What if this was just vecna
trapping Nancy because you know after immediately after this he
gets her but then I'm like I don't really know because if
that were the case they kind of would have told us that but
since the doctors have said yeah we're gonna learn the answers to
do all that and season 5 I'm kind of drawn that theory to the
Wayside but um this is probably Only, you know, other than the
the big bang reveal this one was probably my favorite scene in
this episode because it was definitely wait way out of left
field. Like I did not see this one
coming. I was like oh my gosh another
layer another yet. Unexplained unanswered question.
But you know it's intriguing and it's interesting.
And I loved it. And that's why we decided to
have this scene. Be our last scene that we're
going to talk about today on part 3 because we wanted to go
out with a bang on this because there's we got a lot of others.
You know big stuff coming up because we get the light bright
scene after this which is really amazing but we're going to save
that for next time. Jasmine you have Any final
thoughts on this scene or any other seen that.
We've talked about today and then after that, I will give my
answer to today's essential question Jasmine.
Alrighty. Yeah.
I think again, this is the other big twist in the episode and so
I think that's why this scene probably had the most changes.
You can tell. I think they did change a lot
kind of the day off when they were doing this.
I think partly because the Or they wanted to get it right?
But partly they wanted to kind of finalize what they were
drawing our attention to like things I noticed is that the
order of what he points to in the room and what objects you
point out some of them are the same but some of them have
changed. Again there's a time you know
they kind of fix the timeline you know like in the scriptures
as well that you gave the animal to her cousin Joanna, two years
ago, the same time, her identity program but in this unit, You
just as I gave this, you don't because I'm Joanna, the parts
about the timeline where she picks up the diary that's in the
final verdict, but not in the script.
I think they put that there to carbon explain it to the
audience, I feel, they went to film this there.
Realize, oh we're not giving the audience enough to, to go off
of. So I'm really glad that they may
change the scene. So for us, the reviewer, we can
understand where things are at. I think that was a good change.
Pause. Well other we got more static
content out of the updated seen. Also, they give us the exact
date when the upside down Frozen, were the script doesn't?
So we see the exact date in writing, we see Nancy talked
about, she talks about the timeline, you know, we kind of
get a clearer picture as much as we can and something I really
good change that they made. Is that in the script Nancy.
He's a photo of her and Steve and said she threw it out three
years ago. One that time on is off to what
I read that line in the script I'm like I'm glad they kind of
that because that's like I'm makes no sense because even the
give me one thing it's The Break-Up in her and Steve was
really acrimonious thing but it wasn't like Steve was the
kindest about it could possibly be basically gave her his
Blessing. Not to me it wasn't an
acrimonious split like you know they didn't hang out after But
they stayed friends. So throwing out.
A photo is something you do in Anger.
Also, this is the 1980s. This is a time period and
younger people who understand this, but this is a time period,
where like, if you got rid of something, it was gone forever.
There was no getting it back. Like, you couldn't just reprint
the photo. Like, and from the first names
you can, we do see a lot of, a lot of those photos were like
Photo Booth photo booth photos and stuff.
So, I read that, I was like, that makes absolutely no sense
data that should be like, I'm so mad about this completely Lie
like, you know, amicable breakup, I'm gonna throw out
this photo that I can never get back that made no sense.
And I feel like that must have come out when they were doing
the rewrites the day of and the command, like you break up with
somebody came from my own experience like, you know, you
put that stuff away, you don't throw it out unless it was a
really like, unless it was like, a really acrimonious split from
that, they change. X deadline didn't really know.
Make any sense. I think they were just kind of
spitballing. What how they were going to show
this and I think the final version the final version makes
more sense and it connects kind of the fries and we'll and the
gate and Stevens relationship and also like they're also
trying to explain it to Eddie and he's super confused but I
think they like Eddie kind of stands in for the audience
there. And then getting to the end of
the scene, when they come back downstairs, Steve, I love the
description in the script. It says Steve looks like an
angry man yelling at the sky or something.
What are you trying to like communicate with Dustin?
I love that. Um, and I also like when I think
clearly did this for comedy and it's once again a direction,
this was clearly a direction of the day of because in the script
like they have like Steve looks like an angry man yelling, this
guy or something and then literally right after that the
following moment, every desk in here, Dustin, but in the final
version Steve's yelling and there's a beat in which all the
other characters are looking at them and being like did he
really get rabies like because I can't hear anything?
And then it's a full beat and then they hear him.
So that was always important for creating value.
I thought that works super well. Like, that is like, that was
hilarious. And you got to see, like the
concern, like, at first, and he was like, what the heck are you
doing Ben? And then, you can see where
heard Robin started to get concerned.
There went from like, dude, what are you doing to being like, Oh
my God, stay actually have rabies like, oh my God, and they
hear Dustin and they're like, okay, it's not, it's not him,
he's okay. And then again, this is just
what happened with will when he was down here.
You know, there you go. Let's go figure out how to
communicate with him. Via the lights just like Joyce.
Yeah, exactly. Wholly.
Different other scene which we would definitely get to a bitch.
Absolutely. My final thoughts of, this are
something I noticed is that Steve and Nancy.
Are much more of a team when trying to get the lights to
work, like, in the script. That's not the case.
Everybody is trying to get the lights to work.
Whereas in the final version, Steven NCR a team, like they
both realize what the other one is talking about and they're
like, okay, let's get these lights to work.
I'll try this. Which try this, whereas Robin
and Eddie or crime standing backwards makes again.
I think they treat us because that made more sense of the
final version Robin, and Eddie don't have the experience that
He and Steve do, but they've seen how the lights work on, the
right side up, they both know. And so then be more of a team, I
think made sense because you have two people who are coming
from the same place of understanding.
And then you have, you know, they have a history, they were
in a relationship, they've stayed friends and you have two
people. One of whom has some experience,
one of whom has none. It makes more sense for them to
kind of hang back and kind of take Nancy and Steve's lead
because they have more experience.
They are a team. They are united.
Robin has obviously like extremely stressed out and
scared Eddie's like doesn't know what the hell's going on.
So I think in those kind of situations, you look to people
who know more, you look to that calm presence and Nancy as he
really provided that like joint leadership throughout their
storyline and throughout the season.
So I thought it was a really great addition because it played
out there because chemistry really well and it makes like I
think that group dynamic makes a lot more sense in the final
version and the script version, the script version I think
Giving Robin and Eddie, you know, what they're comfortable,
like a level of comfort that I don't think they would actually
have 0, and this is something I just, I just loved.
So, in the script, the shimmering lights is a lamp.
But in the final version, It's a light fixture which was a good
call, because that looks so much cooler.
But never reaching up to the light fixture of the dining room
table, so much cooler than a random lamp on the table.
Like so much cooler hundred percent cooler, like that to me,
feels like they got on set and they were like, oh, you know
what, we could do this or they do.
They try to where the lamp and they were like, wow.
That looks like. Yeah, exactly.
So on that note, I will give my answer to the today's essential
question and then we'll get you guys out of here.
So if if the what happened In episode 9 with you know the
vapor revealed vecna formed. What?
We know as the mine fire I would have been like yeah it's very
possible that the mine fire is controlling vecna he just
doesn't, you know, realize it yet.
But considering that that scene isn't there?
In apparently Henry, Krill has has had that within him since he
was a child draw. Drawing pictures that looked
exactly like that figure when he was 12 years old and the attic
of his home. I've think I think that Nina is
definitely the one who formed the spider monster Shadow Magic.
Whatever you want to call him on fire and he is in control of it.
I think you know that's why I mean I think that's what really
connects. To the hive mind everything and
why he is, I think it's helped him be even more powerful
because there's all sorts of energy within that cloud that we
see when he formed the Mind flayer.
But if you know, I also could see a Frankenstein situation
here in that. The real monster was the doctor
Frankenstein who created. Dad the monster that everyone
thinks is Frankenstein, but it's really not.
That's the doctor. So I'm not going to rewind.
You'll just have to really listen to this explanation for
that. But yeah, that's my, that's my
take on it. So I don't think that Dustin was
incorrect nor do I think he was correct, but I do think he was
very much on to something. Obviously, we just didn't, you
know, get anything on screen of 11 telling him and everybody
else. What vecna told her about what
happened, once he got down to the upside down, if she bandaged
him. So, I think that will be
something that they're going to save till next season for them
all to come together and have discussions on this too.
Phil to feel everyone in. So once again, thanks everyone
for joining us today. Jasmine.
I as always had a blast talking about this and hope stay tuned
for next time because you know, we're definitely going to get to
the light bright scene. And although you know as much as
we can until we get to probably what everyone really enjoys
about this episode is the big reveal that vecna is Henry is
One. So with that this is Ashley and
Jasmine saying thanks again everyone for joining us and
we'll see you guys next time and overran doubtful over now.