Hey everybody, welcome back to the dealership.
Fix it podcast today. I have the distinct pleasure of
interviewing Frank J O'Connell from jump.
First think fast that's a book you're going to want to to check
out. I'll give you a teaser, there's
motorcycle things in it. There's a motorcycle brand
things in it. So you're gonna want to check
that out. Frank, I won't read the laundry
list right now, but I really appreciate you jumping on and
and sharing some of your Insight and some of the years of
experience you had Ultimately in and around the motorcycle space.
Thanks for coming on. Well, thank you, Brian.
It's a great to be here chatting with you.
Well, I've appreciated. I learned about your book.
I think I told you through a LinkedIn.
What group, for Forum, it's funny how we how we learn about
things these days, you know, it's a ever-evolving, I guess.
But thought interesting, what's that all about a business book?
That includes stuff about a brand in the motorcycle
business? I want to read about that and I
immediately ordered the book Got it and I'll tell you, there's a
whole lot more in depth in the book that I love beyond that,
but you left it as the cherry on the top, its way toward the end
of the book. Good.
If you wouldn't mind would you, would you give the dealership
Fix-It listeners? A little bit of a recap.
I know, you know, it's a life, a lifetime's worth, but would you
mind giving little bit of a recap of who Frank J O'Connell
is Yeah, sure. First, I have led the most fun
career that I could possibly imagine and, and it's been a
career of consing learning. As I point out in the book,
constantly taking risks to grow, kind of personally and
professionally and businesses, the common thread in the lot of
what I've done is, understanding the consumer.
So as you see, I move of from food on men development of
products and working for a very large food, companies in
managing plants and all all of that stuff.
And then they made a big jump in a went to Toys.
And I spent time at the tell, you know, learning product
development and then the video game business and then I did a
startup video game company which was backed by 20th Century Fox
film Corporation and then eventually jump to HBO and ran
the Did video cassette operation and then did they turn around of
Skybox that trading card company and then greeting cards turning
around Gibson, greetings. But then early are on I was
asked to go to Reebok and that's when reback was really getting
beat up by a Nike. And I oversaw the development of
the pump and in a really known for taking the risk on this
bungee jumping commercial So which you'll see in the book
where we have a you know a Nike and Reebok bungee jumper.
And when they jump up this burgeon Oregon only the Reebok
jumper comes back up and of course the Nike shoes are empty
and oh my God everybody went berserk one of the Network's
refused to run it and we got more publicity out of that than
anything we could we could have done.
But that's kind of been my, you know, taking, you know, taking
risks and doing Turn Around. As I is, I have mentioned the
greatest job in my life was really at Union motorcycle.
First, I have been a motorcycle enthusiastic for probably over
50 years as has been my wife, who immediately when I was
dating her picture up and she has written your own bike and
we're probably unusual and that we have written thousands of
Mild every year for 50 years, all over the us, where we have a
group called The American flyers.
And we have a Blog, but then also riding all over Europe,
Etc. But then also have had tons of
Power Sport vehicles in nine hours live in Vermont and I've
guy just in building a new barn to house them but because of you
that's a good problem to have, or haven't.
You could never have enough. That might think oh not another
fire button. Yeah, I've got them all lined up
here. So we have loved Power Sports
and motorcycling has been a huge part of our life.
So I was asked knowing about 2,000.
If I would take a look at turning around Indian, which had
already gone through one, turnaround which had been backed
by Summerfield jobs and head of Coca-Cola Bottling Company, and
he had run through about 100 million dollars really needed.
Professional help. They had bought a company called
California Motorcycle company, which was really a customized
Harley shop, and not really didn't possess the OEM
engineering, that was really necessary to build the quality
brand. So, anyway, I went in and I
spent five years raising money and, you know, really trying to
take Indian to a professional much more, professional high
quality level. It's not only a big part of that
and I will Brian asked questions a lot more questions, but was
really the dealer Network, and I am a huge advocate in students
of the powers for dealership Network.
You know, I've lived all over the country, I've been in and
out of all sorts of dealerships, I've studied it, we did a lot of
research at Indian on what constituted a, you know, a
profitable dealership with the right customer.
Her relationships Etc. And as I was saying to Brian,
you as a manufacturing spend all this time, perfecting your, your
motorcycle, your product, and then the prettiest thing that
happens is often a breakdown that the point where the
consumer touches the product and that is, of course the dealer,
the dealer Network. So at Indian, we spent a lot of
time trying to Define, you know, who would be great dealers, how
do we help them doing a lot of Analysis and what computed to
their practice early, a lot of customer service Etc.
And all I have to say with that. It's a wonderful experience.
I'd love nothing better than to walk into a dealership and they
wait and I see how long it takes for somebody you approach and
and then I start my analysis. And of course as you guys know,
the shop in the back of your a motorcyclist, you know, we're
riding thousands of miles that shopping that mechanic I want to
No because I want to know him and of course you know all the
accessories and everything else but I'm going to stop there and
let Brian fire away. So you know there's there's so
many different directions, my mind starts going as we talk
about this but yes in and you obviously been an Enthusiast of
motorcycles, it's funny to me compared to some other areas of
what's considered dealership whether it's Automotive or some
of these other spaces. There's such an Enthusiast
driven variable to the Dealership businesses.
That's an area where I sometimes am at odds because I understand
that the person who runs a dealer if you know if they were
talking about an individual operator principle of a
dealership if they're the ones they're at the helm of this
space to, you know, to walk in and somehow encourage them to
follow suit, hey, you're representing this brand in your
Marketplace but I know a lot of times, the Enthusiast driven
part of it and their own personal branding I of their
dealership. I think sometimes those two
things are at odds from from my my years of walk in and out of
dealerships throughout the country you know, to old days to
now. And I would love sort of that
perspective on how how a dealership can potentially walk.
That line prop I say properly right we're talking about folks
who didn't purposely didn't go to work for IBM to get a salary
in a job. That's consistent in that way,
they signed up to build a business in these cases.
So do you have Sort of perspective on that.
Yes. And, you know, probably a bunch
of aspects which I think probably your audience will, you
know, you're understand, you know, if you're and you know, an
oem manufacturer, you have a brand, just you want your
dealers to be incredibly knowledgeable, you know, of your
product and you want them to be as passionate Passionate about
your brand and is emotional about your brand as they are
about their dealership. So, you know, that's kind of
where, you know, the line is instantly, are they advocate of
dealers building Community? I love it when their dealer
really works at their destination location for people
to come and spend time and talk, you know, and provide some
community. You know in the end
understanding and being passionate about the brands that
they're selling in being incredibly knowledgeable about
them to me, is critical because typically, I'm going to the
dealer first because I already know a fair amount about the
product, but I'm going to the dealer because I want a
first-hand experience with it Etc and A1 coming to really
talk. Talk to me in depth about it and
also to help me analyze my skills and desires and defect to
the brand. So, and I understand, you know,
the difficult line of selling you're deficient versus selling
the brand so and walking that line.
So yeah, it's um, you know, we're definitely there there
asked and I guess any dealership does that.
But like I say as compared to like a automotive, you know, I
think they don't tend to To be like we are maybe it's got to do
with the tattoos per square inch.
I saw your reference in the in the book at one point that's a
beautiful thing CNC there in California but you know I think
that's the I think the line of you don't know until you go
there you know, do I feel like this this dealership is only in
the case of an Indian if they're if they're Indian more than
their local, are they not doing? Like you say the events and
those sort of things that might be a good point to touch on when
you were Doing that market research, you know, between
Harley and Indian. A lot of those I know from my
perspective Harley had been in potentially is now one of the
ones still leaning the most on expectations, their dealers, to
do events and to try to build that Community.
I feel like they've done a great job through the years.
Are you seeing or the? Are they all upping their game
when you get to go and call on them as a sort of a regular
consumer with with just massive amounts of background
information in your head when you walk in?
Well, and you can re steer me, but I was a couple of things
that I want to hit here that came out of the research, a lot
of the research but a lot of our experience on the floor with
dealers and selling is one, you know, when we really went into
an extensive program relative to our dealers, relative to test,
riding the bikes and We also like it if they had a rental
program as well, because what we found was, if we could get their
butts in the seat, they buy the bike.
And about, I'll give you a whole audience for Indian Indian had,
you know, it's a, it just an iconic brand with a great
romantic pass. And what we found was, there was
this big light which we call it? It's familiar to you born again.
Bikers, they were motorcyclists in there, you know, early days
than they had a family and they stopped motor.
They stopped the motorcycling. Now, their family is grown and
they walk into a dealership Austin, you know, with their
wife or partner and when we saw, they got on the seat of that
motorcycle, went for a ride, making back every there.
You know, their partner saw a smile on their face, they had
not seen in years, so, you know, that's just kind of an example
of, you know, some of the important techniques that we had
learned now, actually, the community writing as well in The
Saturdays and the hot dogs and whatever are also important.
But I mean we really find the demo rides were Really critical.
And I, you know, we actually made quite a deal with eagle
Rider which was then just a brand new company to actually
run the Indian to get more people.
Having that experience at getting there but I'm happy to
see. So yeah, I don't know if there's
anything sort of more important you know.
I guess just like at the showroom level, right?
Although they may not all go right to that level and I'm a
huge proponent of demo rides or like you're saying rental.
Programs that obviously do the same the same thing, but just
even getting somebody to sit on the bikes, you know, that that's
like that next level of putting them behind the bars.
You know. There it's a level of ownership
that these different phases of it.
They've walked in. Okay, that's one level, you
know, they're here. And obviously they're interested
at some level. Huge, huge proponent of it.
You know, I think in one of your stories, you talked about the,
the early Indians and, and sort of some of those issues with
reliability. Let's call it that they had.
And, and on the line changes that occurred, which is funny to
me, because I've worked at dealerships and had Brands who
are without naming a name, a solid, you know, big huge
selling brand of top brand in the industry right now.
But when I was working at a dealership, let's call late
90's, early 2000's. I'd go to look up a particular
Microfiche for someone and it would say like I had to have the
exact Vin and here was the different parts for each of the
different spreads of in and obviously with that metre and
they made production changes, you know, right in the middle
and and I'd order the part and roll the dice.
Did I get it right? I had the right Vin but it's
right part arrived, so you call a lot of that out in the, in
changing of the brand, that that consistency.
In that sort of, that less enthusiastic more.
Motorcycle parts assemblers on the line?
Yeah, I have to think, you know, that's sort of just what
happened over time. Do you feel, like, what's the
next phase for these sort of these manufacturers from here,
is it? I mean, they can, they make the
bikes? You know, obviously it's going
to switch to a different fuel source or maybe an array of
different fuel sources and these sort of things that are all
question marks, but I feel like they've really a lot of these
top brands of really dialed all that in by now.
Yeah, they I mean you have to I think to really feel the quality
product and have this reputation and also so you're not spending
a lot of time, rebuilding bikes in the field under warranty.
I mean that was one of our problems, we get huge warranty
costs because we were rebuilding a whole bunch of the initial
bikes that were built that head-tracking Thunders and, you
know, in all sorts of other things.
But I think quite frankly, I would go and hire people.
I'll go over those, you know, a Harley Or find someone who
really had that experience in that quality experience.
But you know issue and I went in the book is we had way too many
suppliers in vendors and you couldn't control them.
And if you weren't producing enough of a individual part, you
were going to be, you know, important enough to them.
But if you had some problems with some piece of the front end
and you had to go to ten separate vendors that sorted
out, you know? Versus in the automotive and
other Industries, you know, they have a single source of supply,
all of those components and they take full responsibility, every
subcontractor in there with that was, but I but I think the big,
you know, I think your big Brands now have pretty much
sorted that one, get their Crosstown, their manufacturing,
get their quality up in their customer passion up.
So I think a lot of that's gotten sorted out.
How can those things sort of things be overlaid on to a
dealership, Fix-It audience, you know, people that work in and
around dealerships. This is the most basic thing
that I've carried throughout in number one is understanding the
consumer, having an in-depth understanding of the consumer
other product and how they're using it, you know, to, to start
within, then you kind of go from there, you know, in terms of how
you're dealing with the mutt, you're recommending what
products you're recommending. Do them.
And eventually the service, you know, excetera and that's where
kind of you build a trust. I'm going to give you one
example, proof. One of the fastest growing
segments in the motorcycle Market is females, and one of
the biggest things we saw in dealers was they were when a
woman walked in the door. They really didn't know how to
deal with her. And, you know, how to approach
and they were, it was intimidating for what?
You know, initially now I think a lot of that's gotten better, I
think dealers are really gotten on top of, you know, having
people in their dealership who really understand and can you
know and can sell to women and women can really trust, you
know, trust their judgment but just other piece here in just in
terms of getting, you know, getting all of the everything
behind you is really. We getting you people together.
What I try to do is number one encouraged.
Even in a dealership, get a strategic plan together.
What is your path? How are you unique?
What unique services are you going to provide what you'd be
really the what do you want the culture, the dealership to be
and then really getting your people together and to really
discuss that in get them, let them contribute to the You're
really get everybody on board in terms of really, you know, what
is unique about you and what's the real service that you're
really providing that customer when they walk in the door.
So you know I'm just you know, to me that is absolutely
critical to success and preparing today's environment
having employees that really Ali were you all are aligned in
believe in what you're doing and that there's some some degree of
passion there for, you know, the product and the dealership.
So anyway, that's you know, I that's good.
Basic message, okay. I appreciate it.
And like I said, I think it rings true to, you know, a lot
of the variables through and I think that's why you're you as
an individual or an asset, right?
Or able to Plug and Play, and just have such levels of
success. At such a high scale.
You know that where you were operating at?
I wonder what you think and I feel like I'm bouncing around a
lot, but I definitely have. I have a day's worth of ideas
and different things. I wanted it to sort of ask you
about and sort of get you elaborate on, but if you know
for you having been around, you know, in operating at a high
level in business. But if you know it as well as
especially within Power Sports, where do you the journey like,
when you go To buy something, right?
I know that you live. You've got a place in Vermont
and I know we're months, not massively.
Populating you don't have six dealerships in your town to go,
right? So you probably can go into your
local dealerships or as you travel or do other things.
What does your journey look like?
And what areas do you feel like are in a good place for
dealerships to move the needle? Like, are you arriving through
search on Google? Are you arriving to, I know this
dealer. Open town and I give them the
run my business. Let me see what their stuff
looks like on their website. They're sort of their virtual
showroom. Do you have any sort of feedback
on this is not calling out your local dealer by any means, but
it's more General. Do you feel like we're certain
dealerships you've either interacted with or been in and
around on the initial Landing whether it's website or or other
virtual spaces before you get to go there?
Do you see areas where you would say?
This is a common theme, I'd like, I think.
What's next for them is this This.
Yeah, yeah. It's a very very good point.
It's funny. I just kind of preparation for
this colleges for my own thing. I do I just kind of wrote a
little listen the best dealers I had encountered but you know
it's almost everybody's going to research now you know, on the
internet there they'll know. The product is some, you know,
that probably to a high degree and then they will research.
The, you know, the research, the dealer, the dealer Network, and
they may in some cases. Now, I'm seeing where you've
got, you know, these survey, you know of external surveys where
they're, you know, reading dealership and dealership
experiences. So that may be a new area that
is starting to you know that is starting to emerge to to provide
information to, you know, to Consumers but You know for me it
really is you know when I will do some gauging quite frankly as
I probably have driven by that dealership a lot you know many
times and I'll kind of gauge, you know are they healthy or
not? By you know, what kind of
inventory did they have setting you know out in front in that's
it. So that may be one of the first
you know that may be one of the first thing in there.
They getting the new product than you.
Strikes, the new, you know, you know, whatever, they dealers,
get enough volume that they're getting the new product and then
of course. And then, of course, is the
experience of really actually walking in the dealership and
you know, how you are approached.
A lot of that. To me also, is how quickly they
assess what type of of a consumer.
You are, you know, are you there to buy a new bike or you're
born? You can fight your, are you, and
you get a stable of bikes, and you're quite knowledgeable.
You know, or is this your first bike, you know, and then do they
really are they able to be adapt to what you really need to you.
You really need to know to start building confidence that they
can really help you. The have to tell you.
The other thing that is chair of the year with 15 motorcycles and
68 TVs. Here is so the shop in the
dealerships are important to me. So, I am constantly taking bikes
in out in that, to me, is the biggest weakness.
Now, in the dealerships is that got turnover of mechanics, you
know, I swear, I'm in, I've got a couple of bikes that they've
just gone through, have not solved the basic.
My grandson who's actually rebuilding bucks to, my part is
better. The most mechanic, you know,
they keep swapping out parts and trying to solve problems and
they're just not capable of doing it in the next time they
go there that mechanic is gone because what I want to be able
to do is I want to be able to talk to the mechanic is going to
work on my bike and after the bike is done and I get the bill
in my and I want to go through it with not at the cash
register. I want to go be able to go
through with the mechanic to take me through and explain what
was done and What I should, you know what I should expect.
And then, you know that most difficult thing is the next time
I call, I want to talk to the mechanic that mechanic is really
is gone. So the back end, the shop to me,
is, is just extremely extremely important in the reputation of
the shop. In that reputation, is a shot
moves to the community about as fast as anything, you know, as
anything else. So, you know, I just, you know,
I bring it up, but I'll mention one other thing, you know.
And I know that dealers know that, you know, you make a lot
of money and accept accessories. So having someone who really
knows the accessories and particular, clothing and
frequently, what we would find is the dealers, didn't have
someone in often, quite frankly to be a female who really
understood all the accessory line in the clothing.
And of course these days, you know, safety and clothing and
knowing and being able to take a garment and then explain if the
safety factors to me that ends up being on an incredibly
important aspect as well. But not just selling.
It's not just selling of like what are the accessories?
What clothing should safety clothing?
Should I be we're wearing and then of course helmets are
always an issue there. It's you know that it definitely
In Italy, you know that they definitely have to walk a line
right? With what's the competitor,
right? It's not necessarily the guy
down the street although it could be the shop that exists
you know next closest proximity. But it's the if you don't like
you're saying if you don't have somebody that can I think
Powersports is unique to me right?
In them taking a step back but Powersports is so neat unique to
me and interacting with other forms of dealerships.
They all can have it. Susie, assists, and them.
But you talk about level of expectations being just, right?
I mean very, very, very high power sports seems to me to be
extra in that space and like you're talking about if, if I
can't go in there and Powersports and get a follow-up,
you know, at least if, if somebody's not gonna, let me
talk to the mechanic the service advisor, service manager, I feel
the same has to be able to go through.
They got a full download. And what happened to my bike?
Like I say, what to expect and then things like, what we've all
learned from, if you have a decent Automotive dealership,
they tell you what's next. You know, it's like the, this is
where we're at. Here's what's been accomplished
years in the, here's in the rearview mirrors.
Were accomplished today. Here's where we sit today.
Here's what's next for you. We expect to need that and
you're right. I know that dealership struggle
with with hiring technicians and that's one layer of it.
But like you're saying that that same level of expectation
carries out, To the other areas within the store, they can have
a great accessories Department of.
If they've got a bunch of staff that are hiding behind the parts
counter. And I was a parts guy, so I get
it. And I know that that's real, you
know, that's your comfort zone. Your brother with your computer
and your there where your water bottle is and whatever else.
But they need to be out active engaging knowledgeable.
They have to be all those things are expectations within
Powersports is you know that high?
Yeah, you know, I wonder too with things like Like, you know,
if you live, you know, maybe you experienced this.
I think you've sort of mentioned it when you even having living
in a bigger city and having more options, sometimes finding
someone that can solve a problem, which is what service
is doing, right? Fixing something, broken,
solving a problem, something quirky going on, they have to
humor you to a certain degree and be ready to take you at your
word that it's making this weird squeak and they have to go and
try to solve that problem. It puts them in a tough spot.
But again, this is where a dealership, you know, hiring an
individual, that they might be a wonderful mechanic, but they
have to also possess some other abilities, you know, to not be
as engineering but more personal and understanding of what that
is. So I know that that like, I say,
has been a deficit for for power sports and and for many other
Realms right now is that they say some of the trades, you
know, people were whether they were steered away from it years
ago. And we're seeing the result of
that with not as many people in that space.
But yeah, kind of Wonder, I kind of Wonder the direction of what
that does because like, you say, our expectations are very high,
we're very Discerning, we know the product a lot of times as
you know, by the time we research it and do all of our
homework for so long. We know a lot about the product
dealers, do and should know more, but, you know, we asked
them to be so many things to us. Yeah, yeah.
And as you know what, word of mouth among the Riders users
customers is such a huge Factor. So you get a lot of information
from your peer group, you know, on the quality of a dealer, you
know. Yeah, yeah.
And like you say that that same group that that were, you know,
hopefully showing up and doing rides to and it making it real
easy to go hang out at a dealership, you know, some
dealerships. Don't either don't put the focus
on it or actually think it's not a great idea that all people
Hanging around who aren't buying anything that's sort of what
I've literally heard out of the mouths of some employees.
And that's not the decision maker, it's not always the
principal who would say that but when somebody's like, yeah we
don't, you know, we don't do that.
We don't people they come through for poker rides or you
know, whatever. But we don't want to have like a
coffee shop in here or seats and Wi-Fi and all these things
because we don't people just hanging out here.
We want people that are here to do business in that very
transactional. Look at it to me, would tend to
be very much more the metric or Or the Japanese sort of branded
dealerships. And it definitely feels like,
Harley Indian, you know, like those crowds have definitely
learned that. No, no, we want them here.
We want them hanging out. We want to make them a free
coffee or paid coffee or whatever.
Yeah. It's a there's there's yeah,
there's so much. I would love to ask you.
I, you know, I had planned on asking for for 30 minutes of
your time to do this, and we chatted a little before.
So I know we're up against the clock here.
I guess I would ask Couple well, one more sort of one more
question. Usually, I like to ask just sort
of more of the random end of questions, but you know, what's
been for you? What's been, you know, the most
standout experience on a motorcycle.
Oh, well, I've got to say, I have a rider group, The American
fire motorcycle club that I started in Vermont and along
with another friend from Utah. We just had our 28 reunions in.
Moab, we have been riding together for 28 years so and we
start every single year we start in Utah and we ride some Loop.
And then of course, we all of these International rides, you
know, as I mentioned, China, Italy, France, whatever that
group for 28 years in it is, as you would expect The most mix
from billionaires, the governor of Illinois to who live to ride
people that we've met on the road and have joined our group
and been been with us in all. So we've got a very good group
of women, both Riders and you know, ride to up that group is
as an important of family to me as about my own family.
So that to me is you know, that probably is the most
outstanding, you know, aspect of my life that came through came
through motorcycling, it just a wonderful group of people who
had who's been together for 28 years.
But in 28 years, I'm sure it starts to get boring, right?
It's motorcycling. I'm sure it's just gets really
not exciting each time, right? 28 years.
Yeah, we do. God, we've been more exciting
things in any kind of weather and places that such great
experiences. So well that we have one, we
have one person, we have an excellent writer, who writes up
the rides, and put them on our website, American Flyer, you
know, motorcycle club, so knowledge and their all every
ride is a bunch of experiences. Yeah.
Well I encourage anybody to check that out.
You said, American. Flyer flyer.
Yeah, it's a cool Club. Yeah.
Okay, okay, yeah. I mean, I definitely you know,
that the reason I wanted you on was to sort of just talk about
the book and your experience is behind all of it.
I encourage everybody that's listening to this to go get that
book or buy a few copies and and give it to your tier team.
There's there's so many takeaways and it's not just the
motorcycle aspect. It's about, you know, plug-in
yourself in to a situation. Nation that, you know, needs
help and rising to the occasion. And how do you do that?
And how do you keep fresh and keep motivated.
There's, there's just so much in the book and I'm thankful you
wrote. I'm thankful.
I found it and I definitely am very thankful.
You were able to take the time to come on today, Frank.
Well, I'm the one that needs to thank you.
And, you know, and I have to say that the business that you were
all in the Powersport dealer business, I I think is one of
the most exciting ones that I have to say, you know, I always
look at business and say, is there a great opportunity to do
something different and really stand out?
I think there is a huge opportunity for dealers to
really do something be brave. Do something different and grow
their dealerships in their customer base.
So try it. I love it and I hope they'll do
that. And I don't, you know, I'm not
trying to put you on the spot, but maybe in the future here
before too long. I know you're busy with with
lots of other business things and boards and different other
things, but maybe you'd consider coming back on and have an
another different conversation, little more depth in certain
areas and love to do it. Okay.
Thank you so much. Thanks so much Frank.
Okay fine, thank you.